Te Ao Haka Podcasts

Ki te tika te whakatauira atu, ka tika te whāia mai”.

These resources are designed to support Te Ao Haka.

Watch, read, listen, and share this series of informative podcasts from across the motu.

These podcasts feature a range of people who are experienced in the art of Te Ao Haka, talking about their learning and teaching experiences and the benefits Te Ao Haka has given them.

Ki te tika te whakatauira atu, ka tika te whāia mai”.

These resources are designed to support Te Ao Haka.

Watch, read, listen, and share this series of informative podcasts from across the motu.

These podcasts feature a range of people who are experienced in the art of Te Ao Haka, talking about their learning and teaching experiences and the benefits Te Ao Haka has given them.

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Title: Watch the podcasts on Vimeo:

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    • Title: Te Ao Haka Podcasts
    • URL: https://vimeo.com/showcase/10599938
    • Description: Te Ao Haka podcast bring a range of kōrero to fill your kete mātauranga (basket of knowledge).

    Transcripts

    Transcripts

    [ Accordion ]

    Interviewer: Tauke King

    Interviewee: Te Reweti Elliot

    Location: Ngāti Awa

    Intro

    Birds eye view of a harbour with boats and land on either side with the sun rising in the background. A view of a island in the ocean with a orange glow sky behind it. Close up of waves crashing on the shore with some coastline in the background. A shot of the beach at low tide with a father and son walking in the wet sand with mountain ranges in the distant background. A shot of rocky coastline with 3 people at the edge surf casting into the ocean which leads to a island in the background. A close up on a carving. A pan shot of a Marae, followed by close ups of its carvings then a shot of the carvings entrance to the marae with the marae in the background. Close up images of the entrance carvings. Shots of the iwi waka carving. A shot of the harbour again where you can see boats and houses in the distance. A standalone giant rock with a sculpture of a women at the top of it looking out to the ocean which is in the background. Then a further away shot of the same image which shows more of the back the giant rock sits on. Ngāti Awa appears on the screen as the last image fades to black and then Te Ao Haka pans from the left onto the screen. The interview begins with a close up of the interviewer chanting in māori with the interviewee appearing blurred in the close up. Both Males are sitting on a red chair each with a table between them which has two white mugs on it. In the background is a projected screen with the words “Te Ao Haka, Ngāti Awa” displayed in white on a green background. Reweti is holding Poi in his hands. The interview then begins.

    English

    Māori

    Our highly talented guest, Reweti Elliot, we are fortunate and truly honoured that you have agreed to participate in this interview, to discuss the topic of the day which is Te Ao Haka. Therefore my friend, greetings to you, indeed it’s only right that we acknowledge you. Please explain to everyone who you are and where you are from.

    Nō mātau te maringanui, nō mātau te hōnore, kua whai wāhi nei, e te iho pūmanawa, e kiia nei ko Reweti Elliot, i waenganui i a mātau. Ki te kōrero mō te kaupapa e kiia nei ko Te Ao Haka. Nō reira e hoa tēnei rā te mihi atu ki a koe, oti noa ka tika kia mihia e koe ki te hunga nei, ko wai koe? Nō hea koe?

    Thank you. My name is Reweti and I’m from Te Teko. Putauaki is the mountain, Rangitaiki is the river, Ngāti Awa is the tribe and Mataatua is the canoe.

    Tēnā koutou ko Reweti tōku ingoa, nō Te Teko ahau. Ko Putauaki te maunga, Rangitaiki te awa, Ngāti Awa te iwi, Mataatua te waka.

    Thank you very much. Now firstly, let’s get right into it. what we want to do right now, Reweti, is go right back into your memory lane. Tena, take us back to your earliest memories in your Ao Haka.

    Tēnā rawa atu koe. Ināianei me ruku nei tāua tahi, nō reira Ko te mahi ināianei Reweti, kia waihape anō ki ō mahara. Let’s, kia hoki anō ki ō maharatanga tuatahi mō tō Ao Haka.

    I think one of the pivotal points in my life and my passion for Haka was in 1983 when the Polynesian festival was on TV and I saw Te Rōpū Manutaki. I watched Te Rōpū Manutaki at that time and they did waiata-ā-ringa called “Mīhini Ātea” and that is what captured my attention on my... Or that's what started my journey on Haka. And I think back then when Space Invaders was a new and innovative thing at the time, and I could relate to that waiata, because I was nine at the time, so I was like, "Oh geez, they're doing exactly what I go to the spacey parlor for." And we had...

    E whakapono ana au ko tētahi o ngā āhuatanga motuhake o taku oranga, o taku ngākau whiwhita ki te Haka, e hoki ana ki te tau 1983, ki te wā i whakapāohotia te Polynesian Festival ki te pouaka whakaata, ā, i kite au i Te Rōpū Manutaki. I mātaki au i Te Rōpū Manutaki i taua wā, ā, i waiatahia e rātou te waiata e mōhiotia ana ko “Mīhini Ātea”. Waihoki, i titia taua waiata ki taku ngākau. Tērā pea nā tēnā, i tīmata au i taku haerenga o Haka. Ki taku mahara, ko Space Invaders te kēmu hou o te wā, nā reira i whai pānga au ki taua waiata. E iwa tau taku pakeke i taua wā, nā i whakaaro ake au, “E hika, kei te mahi rātou i tāku e mahi nei ki te whare mīhini ātea.” Ā, i a mātou…

    So it became relevant, hey? Something relevant.

    Nā reira, i whai pānga, nē? He kaupapa e whai pānga ana.

    Absolutely. So it started back then, and then they did their poi “Te Pūāwaitanga” and it was at that moment that I didn't know what poi was, I didn't know what they were doing. I actually didn't know what Haka was,  but it was then that you know everytime I saw my kaumatua went to the marae and they were doing what I seen on TV, I wanted to be apart of that I wanted that in my life, however, Ngati Awa being Ngati Awa, none of their queer do the poi that much. It's not a dominant feature within our Haka, our Whare Tāpere so I was introduced to poi by one of my aunties who worked at Kawerau Kōhanga Reo but she was doing them for the tamariki, and then I asked her what those were, and so when she told me,

    that's where my poi journey came, I would listen to groups like Te Waka Huia, Te Rautahi, Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato. These were the top groups at those times and I would emulate everything that I had seen on videos at the time.

    Āe mārika. Otirā, ki reira tīmata ai, nāwai ka mahia tā rātou poi, a “Te Pūāwaitanga”. I taua wā tonu i mārama au kāore aku mōhiotanga mō te poi, mō tā rātou mahi, ā, mō te haka hoki.  Engari i taua wā, ka kite ana au i aku kaumātua e haere ana ki te marae, e mahi ana i ngā mahi i kitea ki te pouaka whakaata, i manako nui au kia whai wāhi atu au ki taua ao. I hiahia au kia noho mai ērā taonga ki taku ao, heoi anō, ko Ngāti Awa tonu a Ngāti Awa, kua kore ngā kuia e kaha poi. Ehara te poi i te pekanga matua o tō mātou haka, o tō mātou Whare Tapere. Nā reira na tētahi o aku whaea kēkē i Te Kōhanga Reo O Kawerau te poi i whakaako tuatahi mai ki a au. I te hanga poi ia mā ngā tamariki, kātahi ka pātai atu au, he aha ērā? Nā whākī mai ia, nā reira ki reira taketake mai ai taku ao poi. Ka whakarongo au ki ngā kapa pērā i Te Waka Huia, i Te Rautahi, i Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato. Koinei ngā kapa toa i aua rā, ā, ka kākā nei taku ako i ngā mea i kitea ki ngā ataata i aua rā.

     

     

     

    It captivated me and it drew me in and I became part or entrapped by that lure that Haka has. And in my whare haka, the dominating theme in my whare haka is poi. So I've worked with poi for over 40 years now, and that's where my journey started.

    I manawareka ki a au, i tō atu i a au, ā, i mauheretia au e ngā poapoatanga o te haka. I tōku whare haka, ko te poi te tāhūhū o taku whare haka. Nā reira, neke atu i te 40 tau au e mahi ana me te poi, ā, ki reira tīmata ai taku haerenga.

    Let's travel on your Haka journey. Where did it take you?

    Tēnā, kia haere tahi tātou me tō Ao Haka. I kawea koe ki hea?

    So my Haka journey led me to a group in Waikato called Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato.

    Nā reira, nā taku ao haka au i kawe atu ki tētahi kapa i Waikato e mōhiotia ana ko Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato.

    Okay. Right.

    Ka pai.

    In Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato, at that time the kaiako was Tīmoti Kāretu, so. the main concept back then was the language, it wasn’t haka, it was the language. The intonation, the dialect and the grammar. So, that was the main concept back then, and now as well. And how I was introduced to Tīmoti Kāretu was... I wasn't introduced, he actually introduced himself. So i te parakatihi mātau, we were practising for the 1995 regionals and it was my first year at uni.

    I Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato, ko Tīmoti Kāretu te kaiako i taua wā. Nā reira, ko te aronga nui i taua wā ko te reo, kaua ko te haka, ko te reo. Me te whakahua, me te mita, me te whakatakotoranga o te kupu, nō reira koirā te kaupapa matua i taua wā, me tēnei wā tonu. Ā, i tūtaki tuatahi au ki a Tīmoti….kīhai au i mihi atu ki a ia, engari i mihi mai ia ki a au. Nā reira, we were practising, i te whakawai mātou mō te whakataetae ā-rohe i te tau 1995, ā, ko taku tau tuatahi tēnā ki te whare wānanga

    Ah, yes.

    Ā, āe.

    And I thought, oh, jump in, and I jumped in and he just stopped practice and he said, “Kāti, kāti", and everyone stood there while I was in line, and he said, "Hoi koe, nōhea koe?” and I was like, "Oh my God, he's pointing to me." I said, "Oh nō Te Teko” and he goes, "Oh, no wonder." That was my introduction to Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato. But that elderly man is like that and I have a lot of respect for him. So I was a performer for the Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato right until it was laid to rest or put to sleep.

    I toko ake te whakaaro i a au, e, me kuhu atu. Waihoki i kuhu atu au, ka whakatārewatia te whakaharatau, ka kī atu ia, “Stop, stop”. Ka tū tekoteko te katoa. Nōku i te rārangi kapa, ka kī mai ia, “Hey you, where are you from?” Ka whakahoki au, “Ā, nō Te Teko”. Ka whakahoki mai ia, “Ā, nā whai anō”. Koinā taku whakatakinga tuatahi ki Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato. Engari he pērā tonu tērā koroua, nui taku aroha ki aia Nā reira, he kaihaka au mō Te Whare Wānanga tae noa ki tana whakamoenga.

    Awesome.  

    Te mīharo hoki.

    So just for doing poi, poi has taken me to Italy where we did a month tour, and we started in Rome and we travelled all the way down to Sicily, and I was fortunate enough to get there, because the reason why I was on there was only five seconds of poi, and that was me, done. 

     

    So every performance we had, I think we had 15 performances, I just needed to be on stage for the end of the poi because no one knew how to do four poi at the time and I was the only one, so that's how I got in that group. 

     

    Then we went to Thailand and we did eight performances in Thailand. Yeah. I've gone to a lot of places just for Haka, specifically poi, and we are looking at going to Mexico next year for a month, and on the books right now, Te pou o Mangatāwhiri is currently looking at performing at Washington DC in September. So yeah, Haka takes you to many places that you'd never ever thought of that you would go to.

    Nā reira, mō te taha ki te mahi poi, kua kawea au e te poi ki Itāria. Kotahi marama mātou e tipi haere ana, ā, tīmata ai ki Rōma. Ka mutu i pōkai i te whenua tae noa atu ki te Tonga, ki Hīhiri. Waihoki waimarie ana au kia tae atu ki reira nā te mea ko te poi te take i haere atu au, ahakoa rima hēkona noa iho te roa, ā, ko au tēnā, ka kēhi. 

     

    Nā reira, ki ia whakangahautanga, tōna 15 ngā whakangahautanga, ko tāku noa, ko te tū ki te atamira tae noa ki te mutunga o te poi i te korenga o tētahi i mōhio ki te poi takiwhā. I taua wā, ko au anake i mōhio, nā reira koinā te take i whai wāhi atu au ki te kapa. 

     

    Kātahi ka haere mātou ki Tairana, ā, e waru ngā whakangahautanga ki Tairana. Āe. Kua tae atu au ki ngā whenua huhua noa, ā, ko te haka te take, mātua rā ko te poi. E whakarite ana kia haere atu ki Mehiko ā tērā tau mō tētahi marama. I tēnei wā tonu, e whakarite ana a Te Pou o Mangatāwhiri kia haere atu ki Wahingitanga ā te marama o Hepetema. Nā reira āe, mā te haka koe e kawe atu ki ngā wāhi huhua noa, ki ngā wāhi kīhai koe i whakapono ka taetae atu.

    Kia Ora.. And so, I'm seeing a very big influence, which as you said, is your whare haka, of poi. So I want you to speak to me and to our ākonga about what it takes, not only to perform a poi, but to even to create a poi.

    Thank you. Nā reira, e kite ana au i te awenga nui, ki ō ake kupu, ko tō whare haka, o te poi.Tēnā kōrero mai ki a au, ki ā tātou ākonga mō ngā pūkenga e pīrangitia ana, kaua ko ngā pūkenga whakaatu poi anake, engari ko ngā pūkenga waihanga poi anō hoki.

    So one thing that I see predominantly when I teach poi is how our rangatahi are fast to catch actions and catch onto poi, but there's always a pro with every con or a con with every pro. If you teach our tamariki quick pois, fast pois, catchy pois, one of the things that you lose inside of there is the control of poi-ing, and what I mean about the control is, if you were to teach a three quarter poi, slow poi, it would be quite difficult for any child to execute simply because they're used to that fast motion, body movement, and so for me, as a creator and as a male creator tuatahi rā, I've got to remember when I create poi, I am not performing it, I am performing it for wahine.

    Nā, ko tētahi mea e kaha kite ana i a au e whakaako ana i te poi ki ā tātou rangatahi, ko tā rātou tere mau i ngā ā-ringa me te poi. Heoi anō, ka haere takirua te kore painga me te painga, te painga me te kore painga rānei. Ki te whakaako koe i ngā poi tere nei te manawataki me te papatu, i ngā poi rorotu nei te hanga, ko te mōhio ki te āta whakamahi i te poi tētahi āhuatanga ka ngaro. Ko tāku e kōrero nei mō te taha ki te mōhio ki te āta whakamahi i te poi, ki te whakaako koe i tetahi poi toru hau whā, i tētahi poi āhua pōturi nei te manawataki, he uaua rawa mā ngā tamariki ki te whakatinana nā te mea kua waia rātou ki ngā poi tere nei te manawataki, ki ngā nekehanga ā-tinana hoki. Nā reira, mōku ake, i a au ka noho mai hei kaihanga, hei kaihanga tāne hoki, firstly, i a au ka waihanga poi, e tika ana kia maumahara au kāore au i te whakaatu i te poi, kei te whakaatu atu mā ngā wāhine.

    I'm creating it for 20 wahine and so that means that every single action that I do or I create, I need to know that 20 of those women can execute that action and not stay on that action for three months of a Matatini journey just practising one action for a split second. So my creativity comes from my environment, it comes from the children that I teach.

    Kei te waihanga au mā ngā wāhine 20, me mātua mōhio au ka taea e ia wahine ngā ā-ringa ka hangaia e au te whakatutuki, a, kia kaua rātou e noho noa ki te ā-ringa kotahi mō ngā marama e toru o te haerenga ki Te Matatini. Nā reira ko te whakawai i tētahi ā-ringa mō tētahi wā poto noa iho. Nā, ka ahu mai taku auahatanga i taku taiao, ka ahu mai i ngā tamariki ka whakaakona e au.

    Yes.

    Āe

    It comes from (story) being a storyteller, a good storyteller, and there's... I see different levels of poi creators. I, myself, have been taught and influenced by Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato therefore, my style of poi, I story tell and I use the words to guide the vision. You have other creators... They use patterns and sequences.

    Taketake mai i te kōrero pūrākau, i te kōrero pūrākau pai, ā,...ka kite au i ngā kaiwaihanga poi nō ngā taumata rerekē. I whakaakona au, i whakaawetia au e Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato nā reira, ko te kōrero pūrākau taku tāera poi, ka tīkina atu ko ngā kupu hei ārahi i te moemoeā. He rerekē ngā kaiwaihanga….Ka whakamahi rātou i te tauira me te raupapatanga.

    Sequences. Yes.

    Āe, ko te raupapatanga.

    Usually, it's an eight beat. Then you have cut and paste creators, and those creators which I have actually worked with to the... Oh, Te Waka Huia 1996 action from that line and put that in, and then we'll do Whāngāra from that line, that year, and put the... And then create a poi that way. 

     

     

     

    And then you have the storytellers, and I would assume that my style was a storyteller, but as a male, because there are a lot of male creators out there, and a lot of our male can be quite flamboyant. What we need to remember as males who create is that we are creating for our wahine,  not for ourselves, and it’s not to glorify an individual so your actions are seen out there. 

    Tōnā tikanga he takiwaru te ūngeri. Kātahi, ko ngā momo kaiwaihanga ka tōai noa i ngā ā-ringa poi a kaiwahanga kē, ā, kua mahi tahi au me tērā momo…Nā, ka tīkina atu te ā-ringa poi nō tētahi rārangi o te waiata a Te Waka Huia nō te tau 1996, ka meatia ki konei…ā, ka tīkina atu tētahi nā Whāngāra, nō taua rārangi, nō taua tau, ka meatia… Nāwai ka hanga poi mā te whai i taua tukanga.

     

    Ā, ko ngā kaiwaihanga kōrero pūrākau hoki tērā, ā, e whakapae ana au ko te kōrero pūrākau taku tāera. Engari hei tāne, i te mea tokomaha tonu ngā kaiwaihanga tāne, ā, tokomaha hoki ngā tāne he whakameremere te āhua.

    Engari me maumahara tonu mātou te hunga tāne e waihanga ana, e waihanga ana mātou i ngā poi mā ngā wāhine, kaua mā mātou ake, ā, kia kaua e whakamanamana i te takitahi kia puta ai ō ā-ringa poi ki te ao.

    Well done.

    Tau kē.

    For the ladies that I've taught, I've just got to remember, who's performing the poi? What story do you want me to depict? And with the levels, different levels or variant levels in the wahine's abilities, and I heard a cool quote, you're only as strong as your weakest performer, so...

    Mō ngā wāhine kua whakaakona e au, me mauhara au, ko wai kei te whakaatu i te poi? He aha te pūrākau e pīrangitia ana kia whakaahuatia? Ka mutu, mō te taha ki ngā taumata rerekē, ki ngā pūkenga poi a ngā wāhine, waihoki i rangona e au tētahi whakataukī, hē o te kotahi nō te katoa, nā reira…

    Firm believer of that.

    E whakapono mārika ana au ki tēnā.

    Yeah. How I create is around who I work with.

    Āe. Kei te āhua tonu o taku tira mahi te āhua o taku waihanga.

    you must have been inspired or seen some amazing wahine and tāne rānei. Who and why?

    Kāore e kore kua whakaweawetia koe e ētahi wāhine mīharo, e ētahi tāne hoki. Ko wai rātou, ā, he aha ai?

    My biggest influence has been Te Aroha Paenga former kaitātaki wahine of Te Roopū Manutaki. So I was drawn to her style. I was drawn to Te roopū Manautaki style. And everything that I... In my poi mind, everything that I know, I draw upon everything that I wasn't taught, that I copied of TV. Then I went to Auckland for a holiday and I asked my uncle if he could take me to Hoani Waititi Marae, and in 1992, I was fortunate enough to have a video camera on me, and Peter Sharples, at that time, performed every single poi of Te Roopū Manutaki for their practice and I've got it on video. Since then, I've learned every single poi of Te Roopū Manutaki and I did so right up until 2005. Great influence on my life. Other people have influenced me, are Ngamoni Huata but I'm not being biassed. She's ex Whare Wānanga o Waikato kaihaka and she created the actions for “Rongomai” that won in 1986, so nā Ngamoni ērā, and those have been my main two biggest influences in my style and the way I do poi.

    Ko Te Aroha Paenga, te kaitātaki o mua o Te Rōpū Manutaki taku whakaaweawe nui. I rata pai au ki tana tāera. I rata pai au ki te tāera a Te Rōpū Manutaki. Ka mutu, katoa ngā mahi i…

    I taku hinengaro poi, katoa tāku e mōhio nei, i ahu mai i ngā āhuatanga kāore i ākona mai ki a au, i ahu mai i te pouaka whakaata. Kātahi, ka haere atu au ki Tāmaki Makaurau hararei ai, ā, i uia taku matua kēkē kia haria au ki Te Marae o Hoani Waititi. I te tau 1992, waimarie ana au i a au tētahi kāmera hopu ataata, ā, i taua wā i tū a Peter Sharples ki te whakaatu atu i ia poi a Te Rōpū Manutaki i tā rātou whakawai, ka mutu kei taku ataata tēnā. Nō taua wā, kua ako au i ia poi a Te Rōpū Manutaki, ā, i pērā te ako tae noa atu ki te tau 2005. He awenga nui ki a au. He hunga anō kua whakaaweawe i a au pērā i a Ngamoni Huata. Kāore au i te karutahi. He kaihaka o mua ia nō Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato, ā, nānā ngā ā-ringa poi o “Rongomai” i hanga, ko te poi whakaihuwaka i te tau 1986. Those actions were created by Ngāmoni. Ā, ko rāua tahi ngā whakaawenga matua i taku tāera me te āhua o taku mahi i te poi.

    Ka pai. And then, so poi has a big role in your whare haka. What kind of words of guidance would you give them when going into a creative space?

    That’s great. Tēnā, he wāhanga nui tō te poi ki tō whare haka? He aha āu kupu ārahi ka tukuna atu i a koe ka kuhu atu ki tō whare auaha?

    I think that creativity is instilled in us as Māori. It's just second nature for us, and we create clicks or groups, and we create songs. For me, the main thing is, remember who you are creating for.

    E whakapono ana au kua whakatōngia taua auahatanga ki roto i a tātou te Māori. Kua tangata whenua ki roto i a tātou, ā, ka waihanga rōpū, ka waihanga waiata. Mōku ake, ko te maumahara mā wai te waiata.

    Right.

    Tautoko.

    And remember why you are creating

    Waihoki me maumahara he aha te take e waihangatia ana.

    Levels of varying abilities. So the comparisons of single poi to... Single short to double short etc, please discuss the comparisons

    Ko ngā taumata ako rerekē. Nā, ko te whakatauritenga o te poi poto takitahi…me te poi poto takirua. aha atu aha rānei, kōrero mai mō ēnā tūāhuatanga

    I think double short comes to the fore quite regularly, and you don't see much single short poi. 

     

    It's obvious with double short, there's a lot of other things that you can do in regards to creative space, and so you can... 

     

    I've seen groups throw their poi up in the air. I've seen groups do some amazing actions which you can't do with single poi, however, what I do, and I've done it in every single poi that I've created for the Matatini stages. I have a signature on poi, and so for our rangatahi who are in that creative space, mark your work. 

     

    Like everything else, like a kaitā marks his work. There's a specific syncopated beat in there that's run through all the years, through all those teams, and that's my mark or my signature mark on that poi.

    Ki aku nei whakaaro, he rite tonu te kite atu i te poi poto takirua, ā, kāore e kaha kitea te poi poto takitahi.

     

    Mō te taha ki te poi poto takirua, mārama ana te kite he maha noa ngā āhuatanga e taea ana mō te taha ki auahatanga, nā e taea ana te….

     

    Kua kite au i ngā kapa ka whiu atu i ngā poi ki te rangi. Kua kite au i ngā kapa e mahi ana i ngā ā-ringa poi mīharo e kore rawa e taea e te poi poto te whakatutuki. Engari, ko tāku noa, ā, kua pēnei mō ia poi kua waihangatia e au mō te atamira o te Matatini. Kua waitohua aku poi, nā ko ngā rangatahi kei tēnei auahatanga, whakahaumarutia ō mahi.

     

    Pērā i ngā āhuatanga katoa o te ao, pērā i tā te kaitā whakahaumaru i āna mahi. He momo taki aruaru kua rangona i ngā tau kua pahure nei, puta noa i aua kapa katoa, ka mutu koinā taku waitohu, ko taku waitohu i tērā poi.

     

    And would you encourage our tamariki to be able to do that within their creative spaces?

    Nā, ka akiaki koe i ā tātou tamariki, kia āhei rātou te mahi pērā i ō rātou ake ao auaha?

    Absolutely, hey. So people know that it's your work and people know that it's your mahi, because your mahi's precious, and so one of the things that I do or that I encourage any rangatahi to do is, as Maori, and so for our rangatahi, any rangatahi that come into that creative space, mark your work, put your signature on it and get it out there and let everyone know that that is your piece of work and that is your creativity coming through.

    Āe mārika, nā. Kia mōhio ai te marea nāu te mahi, ā, ka mōhio rātou nāu te mahi nā te mea he taonga tō mahi. Waihoki ko tāku e mahi nei, he akiaki nei i ngā rangatahi, kia tū hei Māori, mō ngā rangatahi, ahakoa ko wai te rangatahi ka kuhu atu ki taua ao auaha, waitohua ō mahi, tāmokotia, ā, whakaputaina, whakamōhiotia atu te ao nāu te mahi, ā, ko tō auahatanga tēnā e whakaputaina ana.

    Thank you. I want to return to your home, Te Teko, in Ngāti Awa. And discuss all aspects of Te Ao Haka, those which are thriving and being revitalised within Ngāti Awa. Do you have a strategy? Does the tribe have a strategy to uplift these treasures, these treasures of Te Ao Haka as a livelihood for Ngāti Awa?

    Kia Ora, e hiahia nei au te hoki atu ki tō kāinga, ki roto i a Ngāti Awa, Te Teko. Me ngā āhuatanga o te ao haka, e ora nei, te whakarauora kē i roto i a Ngāti Awa. He rautaki tāu, he rautaki tā te iwi, hei hiki hei hāpai i tēnei taonga, i ngā taonga o te ao haka hei oranga mō Ngāti Awa?

    Indeed, we have a strategy Currently, I'm the chairman Ngāti Awa Te Toki. So there was a group of 14 of us that got together in 2013 and we wanted to do something for Ngāti Awa. From that little Hui, we had another Hui and we went to Te Rūnanga o Ngāti Awa, Awanuiārangi and asked if they would support us in establishing a group where our people from Ngāti Awa and our marae from Ngāti Awa perform in whakataetae festival, a ngahau festival, a festival for our tamariki, and it also brings our whānau back home. But, the overarching goal of Te Toki is the language. It’s the Ngāti Awa dialect. Secondly, it’s to return the family treasures to our local people. Thirdly, for all our people and descendants of each sub-tribe to return to their own marae.

    Āe, kei a tātau tētahi rautaki. I tēnei wā, ko au te tiamana o Ngāti Awa Te Toki. Nā reira, 14 mātou i whakakotahi i te tau 2013, ā, i hiahia mātou ki te mahi i tētahi mahi mā Ngāti Awa. Mai i taua hui iti nei, i hui anō, ā, i haere atu mātou ki Te Rūnanga o Ngāti Awa, ki Awanuiārangi ki te tono atu mehemea ka tautoko rātou i a mātou ki te whakatū i tētahi ohu e āhei ai ngā uri o Ngāti Awa me ō mātou marae o Ngāti Awa ki te tū ki tētahi ahurei whakataetae, ki tētahi ahurei ngahau, ki tētahi ahurei mā ā tātou tamariki. Waihoki, he kaupapa hei tō mai i ngā whānau ki te kāinga. Engari ko te kaupapa matua o Te Toki, ko te reo. Ko te reo o Ngāti Awa ake. Tuarua mai ko te whakahokia mai o ngā taonga a ngā whānau ki te haukāinga. Tuatoru kia huia mai ngā tāngata, ngā uri o tēnā hapu o tēnā hapu ki tō rātau marae ake.

    That’s due to me knowing that there are some prized possessions within Ngāti Awa. Let’s take Kiri Whakaangi as an example and the poi, “Haere atu, haere atu ki te taki poipoi”, that she composed. What I’m getting at, kei te ahu mātou, kei te tika tā mātou rautaki mā Te Toki e puāwai mai ai he Kiri Whakaangi anō, within Ngāti Awa who will compose, who will revitalise the treasures of our old people?

    I runga i te mea nei kei te mōhio au ki ētahi taonga i roto i a Ngāti Awa. Ka hoki atu ki a Kiriwhakaangi, me tētahi poi nānā i tito, “Haere atu, haere atu ki te taki poipoi”. Ko tāku, are we heading in a direction or is our rautaki for Te Toki enough that we are going to get more Kiriwhakaangi, i roto i a Ngāti Awa hei tito ake, hei whakaora anō i ngā taonga a kui mā, a koro mā?

    I think Te Toki is in a good space where our strategy is a succession plan, and so in our judging space, in our committee space, in our composition space and our history space, we have a rangatahi representative, and that rangatahi representative can be either from your hapu. 

     

    The Marae around here delegate somebody to be that person, and so there's an opportunity for all are our rangatahi to jump on and learn what it means to be kaiwhakawā. We hold wānanga around that and learn about a specific kaupapa. So we hold wānanga around poi, waiata-ā-ringa, haka, mōteatea, what you're looking for, what you are judging, and then it then becomes more than just an item, it gives it meaning, and it's, I think, for me, it gives the rangatahi, it opens their eyes to a whole different world of Haka.

    E whakapono ana au kei te huarahi tika a Te Toki, ā, he mahere tauatanga tā mātou rautaki. Nā reira ka whai wāhi atu tētahi māngai rangatahi ki tō mātou whaitua whakawā, whaitua komiti, whaitua titonga, whaitua hītori anō hoki, ka mutu, he rangatahi tēnei nō te hapū. 

     

    Mā te marae i konei taua tangata e kopou, nā reira e tuwhera ana tēnei ki ā mātou rangatahi katoa, kia kuhu mai ki te ako i ngā āhuatanga o te kaiwhakawā. Ka whakarite wānanga mātou e pā ana ki tērā, ka ākona tētahi kaupapa. Nā, ka whakarite wānanga poi, waiata ā-ringa, haka, mōteatea, he aha tāu e kimi nei, he aha tāu e whakawā nei, ā, nāwai kua nui ake i tētahi waiata noa, he mana tōna. Mōku ake, kia tuwhera te ngākau o ngā rangatahi ki tēnei ao rerekē o te haka.

    And it's good that we want to do that, we want to open their eyes to these spaces. Ko tāku, are we heading in a direction or is our rautaki for Te Toki enough that we are going to get more Kiriwhakaangi, i roto i a Ngāti Awa hei tito ake, hei whakaora anō i ngā taonga a kui mā, a koro mā?

     

     

    So what would you personally, mēnā he kaiwhakawā koe, be looking for when judging poi?

    He āhuatanga pai tēnā, kia whai i taua āhuatanga, ināhoki koinā te whāinga, kia tuwhera ō rātou ngākau ki ēnei whaitua. Kia kite nei koutou o Ngati Awa e pēra ana. Tēna me rukuhia ki tēna wāhanga e kīia nei ko te kaiwhakawā. I runga i te mea nei kei te mōhio au ki ētahi taonga i roto i a Ngāti Awa. Ka hoki atu ki a Kiriwhakaangi, me tētahi poi nānā i tito, “Haere atu, haere atu ki te taki poipoi”.

     

    Nā reira, mōu ake, if you were a judge, he aha tāu ka kimi i te poi?

    Synchronicity isn't an issue for me. I look at your script and I look at the story that you are telling on stage. If they don't match each other, then your storytelling isn't as wonderful as your scripts, but a lot of our kaiwhakawā and a lot of the items now are becoming more visual, and so I believe that kaiwhakawā in Matatini, they have the scripts being marked, and then they separately have the poi being marked, which gives an indication that... For me, myself, I'd look at both, so that's stopped that side, which is good.

    Ehara te tukutahi i tētahi take nui mōku. Ka tirohia ō kupu, ka mātaki atu i te pūrākau e whakaatuhia ana e koe ki te atamira. Ki te kore ēnei e taurite, kua kore tō pūrākau e mīharo pērā rawa i ō kupu. Engari tokomaha ngā kaiwhakawā, kāore e ārikarika ngā waiata e noho mai ana hei kai mā te kanohi. I Te Matatini, ko tāku e whakapae nei, ka whakawāngia ngā kupu e tētahi kaiwhakawā, ā, he kaiwhakawā anō hei whakawā i te poi. He tohu tērā e…. Mōku ake, ka tirohia e au ngā taha e rua. Nā reira, kua aukatingia tērā. He pai tonu.

    Yes.

    Āe.

    But here in Ngāti Awa, we are still in the Olympic system, 

     

    And so what we look at it,

    I’ve encouraged our kaiwhakawā instead of three people looking at three (different) same things. I say you can judge the body movements, I will judge the poi imovements and you can judge those things that we miss

     

     

    Rather than say, "Oh, look, she made a mistake." Yeah, she made a mistake, yeah, and we're judging the same person. So I split that up into three different categories, and yeah, that's how we judge here.

    Engari i konei, i Ngāti Awa, kei te whai tonu mātou i te pūnaha Orimipia, 

     

     

    Ko tā mātou e kimi nei, kua whakatenatena au i ō mātou kaiwhakawā ki te kanohi hōmiro atu ki ngā āhuatanga rerekē, ka mahue te hōmiro atu ki te āhuatanga kotahi. Ka kī atu au, māu te tinana, te taha tinana, māku te taha poi and māu e kimi ana you know i ngā mea kāore māua i te kite.

     

    Ka mahue te kī, “E, titiro atu, kua hapa ia”. Āe, i hapa ia, āe, ā, kei te whakawāngia te tangata kotahi e mātou. Nā reira, ka whakawehea tērā e au ki ngā wāhanga e toru. Āe, koinā te tikanga whakawā i konei.

    And it works well?

    Kei te pai tēnā?

    It works well here.

    Āe, kei te pai tēnā i konei.

     that’s good, there is a strategy in place, so that the poi may continue to live on as a treasure for our youth. Now, let’s get straight into this next part, let’s discuss composers. If someone is composing, if one of our youth is composing a song or a poi, do you have any words of encouragement for them?

    ka pai, kei reira tonu he rautaki, hei oranga mō te poi, mō te taonga, anō hoki mō ngā rangatahi. Me kauruku tāua ki tēnei wāhanga e kiia nei ko te kaitito. Mēnā e titoa e tētahi, e ētahi o ā tātau rangatahi i ētahi, i tētahi waiata, poi rānei, he kupu akiaki tāu ki a rātau? Nā

     

    Go for it! Get in there! The positive outcome of that is that the language is heard, the language is at the forefront. Without the language, there is no kapa haka. Therefore give it everything, compose songs so that we may hear it, compose songs so that the tongue may taste its flavour and the delightfulness of our Māori language.

     

    That’s one of the positives of that group Maimoa, yes. While we were in Italy,  that's all we listened to, and then our Panama whānau who were part of the performances started listening to Maimoa and now Maimoa is over in Panama, and so we've got to dub them, call the Pana Māoris. They're avid listeners of te reo Maori, not just Maimoa but koinā te, that's what I love about our music, is music is universal, so it doesn't matter what language you speak, we all are drawn into that scenario of music.

    Karawhiua! Karawhiua. Ko te painga o tēra ka rangona e tātau i te reo, ko te reo te kaupapa matua. Mei kore ake ko te reo, kua kore te kapa haka. Nō reira karawhiua, titohia ngā waiata kia rongona te taringa, titohia ngā waiata kia rongo ai te ārero i tōnā reka. Te reka o tō tātau reo Māori.

    .

     

     

    Koirā te painga o Maimoa, tērā kapa, āe. I a mātau i Ītāria,, he rite tonu tā mātou whakarongo atu ki a rātou, ā, i tīmata tō mātou whānau Panama ki te whakarongo atu ki a Maimoa, he whānau tēnā i whai wāhi atu ki te whakangahau, ā, kei Panama a Maimoa ināianei. Nā reira, nā mātou rātou i tapa ki te ingoa ‘Pana Māoris’. He hunga e ngākaunui ana ki te whakarongo atu ki te reo Māori, kaua ko Maimoa anake, nā reira koinā tētahi painga o ā tātou waiata puoro. Kua hōrapa te waiata puoro i te ao, nā reira ahakoa te reo ka kōrerotia e koe, he hononga tō tātou katoa ki te waiata puoro.

     

     

    When teaching poi, what kind of tips, tricks, strategies, don't, dos, do you have?

    Nōu ka whakaako i te poi, he aha ngā momo kupu āwhina, ngā kurahuna, ngā rautaki, ngā kore painga, ngā painga kei a koe?

    For me, is for women, especially women, the first thing I said when you ask someone to do kapa haka, they're like, "Oh, I don't know how to do the poi." So they've put a mind block up already, and so when you do that and you put a mind block up, you actually... You are setting yourself back from actually advancing. I don't know if this is going to get edited out, but I have special needs classes and I call them the special needs because they are.

    Mōku ake, ko ngā wāhine, mātua rā ko ngā wāhine, ko te whakautu tuatahi a te tangata inā pātai atu ki a ia kia kuhu mai ki te kapa haka ko tēnei, “Kāore au i te mōhio ki te poi”. Nā reira, kua whakatū taero kē, ā, ka pērā ana te tangata, he taero ā-hinengaro tēnā, ko tāu nā…. Ko koe tonu tōu ake kaipatu. Kāore au i te mōhio mehemea ka mukua ēnei kōrero, engari he karaehe mate hauā tōku, ā, ka karangahia rātou he mate hauā nā te mea e pērā ana.

    Right.

    Ka pai.

    That need extra awhi and I break the action down, so that it's not broken, but I simplify the action. And some people learn by beats, some people learn by numbers and some people learn by sections, I can tell from experience now who learns by numbers, who learns by beats and who learns in sections. So when somebody I'm teaching a poi, and I'll say, "It's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6." They look at me blank, then I'll go, "Oh, okay. So it's... Here's the beat." And they'll click onto that. So there's different strategies that I use. With primary sector, with secondary sector, and with adults who are all at different levels, we just make a space where everyone feels comfortable to learn and embrace their taonga. And a poi is a taonga that should be celebrated.

    Me kaha āwhina i a rātou, ā, ka wetewetehia te ā-ringa poi, kia kore ai e whati, engari ka whakamāmāhia te ā-ringa poi. Ka ako ētahi mā te papatu, ka ako ētahi mā ngā tau, ā, ka ako mā te whakawehe ki ngā wāhanga. Nā aku pūkenga i taea ai e au te tohu ko wai te hunga ako mā ngā tau, ko wai te hunga ka ako mā te papatu, ā, ko wai te hunga ka ako mā te whakawehe ki ngā wāhanga. Nā reira, ka whakaako ana au i te poi, ka kī atu au, “Ko te 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6”. Ka tiro pōkīkī mai ki a au. Kātahi au ka kī atu, “Nā, ka pai. Nā reira, ….anei te papatu”. Nāwai rā, ka mau. Nā reira ka whakamahia e au ngā rautaki rerekē. Ahakoa kura tuatahi mai, kura tuarua mai, pakeke mai, kei ngā taumata rerekē rātou katoa, ka ngana ki te whakarite whare e hāneanea ai te katoa ki te ako, ki te kauawhi i tā rātou taonga. Ka mutu, he taonga te poi me whakanui ka tika.

    What have you learned or what experience have you gained to where you are, I won't do that again?

    He aha tāu i ako ai, he aha rānei ngā wheako kua mau i a koe, kia taea ai e koe te whakatau e kore koe e pērā anō?

    I couldn't think of a few scenarios. So there's people that I can work with and there's people that I can't, and when you have a group of very talented people, the expectation by everyone is like, they're going to come out with something amazing, and when you put yourself in a space with three amazing artists, sometimes the outcome's not what's expected. I won't work with people who are more competitive in the space that we create in. So what I mean by that is, I don't like that action, I can do a better one, and that's not creating. The whole idea of creating is to forge your way forward. And I won't create with my Nan’s. I'll just say that, my Nan’s. We don't forge anyway forward with my Nan’s. And I suppose that's it. Those are the only spaces that I won't create in.

    He uaua ki te whakawhāiti ki ētahi tauira. Nā reira, tērā te momo e taea ana e au te mahi tahi ki a rātou, ā, he hunga anō e kore e taea te mahi tahi. Nā reira, mehemea he tira iho pūmanawa tōu, ko te kawatau a te katoa, kia hua mai tētahi mea mīharo, ā, ki te kuhu atu koe ki tētahi takiwā me ngā ringatoi whakamīharo, he wā anō tōna e kore koe e whakatutuki i tāu i pīrangi ai. E kore au e mahi tahi ki te hunga he kaha nei tana āhuatanga whakataetae i a mātou e mahi ana.

    Ko tāku e kōrero nei, “kāore au i te rata ki taua ā-ringa poi, ka taea e au tētahi mea pai ake te waihanga”, nā reira ehara tēnā i te mahi waihanga. Ko te uho o te waihanga ko te ahu whakamua. Nā, e kore au e waihanga me aku kuia. Ka kī noa au, ko aku kuia. E kore mātou e ahu whakamua me aku kuia. Nā reira, ka mātua i tēnā. E kore au e kuhu atu ki ērā wāhi waihanga ai.

    Ok, so that’s due to experiences. It's from experience that you realised okay I actually gave it a go and that’s the main thing in te ao haka aye,Firsty give it a go if it is successful, great, if it doesn’t work, oh well, move forward. So, let's move forward with our discussions, friend. Let’s talk about the time when you stood as a performer for Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato. What I would really like to do is listen to all the treasures and lessons that you learnt from different role models who guided you during that time

    Ka pai, engari nā te wheako. Nā ēra wheako kua mārama mai koe, Ka pai,  whakamātauhia, ā, koirā te mea nui i te ao haka nē? Ka tahi whakamātauhia, i te tuatahi, mēnā ka riro ka pai, ki te taka, hei aha,. haere tonu. Nō reiraMe haere tonu ngā kōrero nei e te hoa. Me kōrero ake tāua mō ōu wā, i te tū ai koe hei kaihaka mō Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato. Ko taku hiahia kia rongo i ngā kuru pounamu, i ngā whakaakoranga, i tukuna mai e tēnā, e tēnā o ngā iho pūmanawa i arahi i a koe i tērā wā.

    The main tutor at that time was Tīmoti Kāreu, he was the leading expert of Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato. The essence and heart of that group was the Māori language. 

    And then there was Te Rita Papesch, she is one of my ultimate role models. I was under her guidance for three years, she was there when I first arrived.  Her stance and voice was beautiful and elegant.

     

     

     

    Who else was there, there was Tio Harawira as well, they were both the leaders of the group. The group always achieved its goals. 

    I say that because I’m not referring to achieving its goals on the competitive stage, but I’m referring to achieving its goals in regards to the Kīngitanga, Waikato and the university. Those were important themes of that group at that time. My role models are Tīmoti and Ngaringi Kapita, she was the final leader of the group and Te Rita Papesch as well

    Ko te kaiako matua i taua wā ko Tīmoti Kāretu, koia tērā te Pou o Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato. Ko te ngako, ko te manawa o taua kapa rā ko te reo Māori. 

     

    Kātahi ko Te Rita Papesch, koia tētahi o aku tino iho pūmanawa. I noho au i raro i ōna parirau mō ngā tau e toru i reira ia i te wā i tae atu au. Me te ataahua, me te ngāwari o tana tū, o tana reo. Ko wai atu ko Tio Harawira, ko rāua tahi te kaiurungi, te kaiurungi o te waka. I ngā wā katoa i ū pai tērā waka ki uta. 

     

    Engari e pērā ana aku kōrero, kāore i ū i runga i te ātāmira whakataetae nei, engari i tutuki pai i ngā mahi o te Kiingitanga, i ngā mahi o Waikato, i ngā mahi mō te whare wānanga. Aua kaupapa tūturu nei ki tērā kapa i taua wā tonu. Ko aku iho pūmanawa ko Tīmoti, ko Ngaringi Katipa, koia tērā te kaitātaki whakamutunga, ā, me Te Rita Papesch.

     

    Please share with us some of the teachings that they left both you and the group.

    Tēnā homai ētahi kōrero nā rātau i tukuna nei ki a koe, ki te kapa anō hoki.

    Tio would constantly say, for the whole body to speak. That’s what Tio Harawira would always say. In regards to the haka, men, for the whole body to speak, don’t stand like a pole or a soldier. If the whole body speaks, your language is different and that’s the goal. For every performer to be different. So that the audience is able to see your own noble authority.

    Ko Tio i ngā wā katoa, kia kōrero te katoa o te tinana. Koirā te kōrero a Tio Harawira i ngā wā katoa. Mō te wāhanga o te haka, tāne mā kia kōrero te katoa o te tinana kia kaua e tū hei poupou, hei hōia rānei. Mēnā ka kōrero te tinana ka rerekē tō kōrero, ka rerekē tō kōrero, āe koirā e hiahia ana. Kia kaua e ōrite ngā kaihaka katoa. Kia kitea ai te minenga i tō mana rangatira ake.

     

    Awesome, and that was uncle Tio, was there anything else which was handed down to you and the group from aunty Te Rita?

    Rawe, ana ko Papa Tio tērā, he kōrero anō i tuku iho mai e te Whāene e Te Rita, ki a koe, te kapa rānei?

    Yeah. It was a akiaki actually. I almost got dropped. In 1999, I almost got dropped and it was Te Rita that actually came out and, “hey me pēnei me pēnei”.  Gave me these words of encouragement, and because there was three of us fighting for the one spot, and “me pēnei” and she came out and she had a talk to me, and I was so happy because I had two days to fix it, and that's how Whare Wānanga rolls. They don't give you a month, they give you a couple of days, otherwise you're out.

    Āe rā. Ko te akiaki tāna. I tata wairuatoa au. I te tau 1999, i tata wairuatoa, ā, nā Te Rita tonu i kōrero mai ki a au, “E, me pēnei, me pēnei”. I homai i ēra kupu akiaki, ā, nā te mea tokotoru mātou e pakanga ana mō te tūranga kotahi. Ko tāna mai ki au, “Me pēnei”, me taku harikoa hoki i te mea e rua rā te roa ki te whakatika i ērā āhuatanga. He momo tērā nō Te Whare Wānanga. Kua kore rātou e hoatu i te kotahi marama ki te whakatika, engari e rua noa iho ngā rā. Ki te kore e whakatika, kua wairuatoa, kua puta i te kapa.   

    So, she sat down and she told me, and she spoke to me and she talked to me about my whare haka. . That was the amazing thing It was about me. It wasn't about impressing anyone else. It was about me and being pono to my whare haka, and she told me to, , “Don’t try and be like someone else, but be yourself” yeah. And from that kōrero it inspired me to never think that my tū was as important as everyone else's tū, and I made it in the regional team that year, but I got dropped the next year. It was just great It was okay.

    Nā reira, i whakanōhia au, i kōrero mai ia ki a au mō taku whare haka. Koirā te mea rawe. E pā ana ki a au. Kāore i paku aro atu ki te whakawehi i tangata kē. I hāngai pū ki a au, kia pono au ki taku whare haka, ā, ka kī mai ia ki a au, " kaua e tū i te tū o tētahi atu, me tū i tō tū" āe. Ā, ko ērā kōrero i whakaaweawe i a au kia kaua au e whakaaro he rangatira ake taku tū i te tū a tangata kē. Me te aha, i whai wāhi atu au ki te kapa ā-rohe i taua tau, engari i te tau whai muri atu, i wairuatoa. Engari, i pai tonu. kei te pai.

    But all the treasures that she gave will live on forever. E hiahia ana au ki te ū tonu ki a ia, and everything that she said. Because, she opened up the door to this house, which is known as your Whare Haka. Please explain to these students, what is this, what is the “Whare Haka”?

    Engari ko ngā taonga i tukuna mai e ia, ana he pūmautanga mōu mō ake ake ake. I want to stick with her, me āna kōrero. Tātemea nei i tuwhera ai e ia i ngā tatau o tēnei whare, e kiia nei tō whare haka. Tēnā, whakamārama mai ki ēnei ākonga he aha tēnei mea te “whare haka?”

    In my opinion, the Whare Haka is your own home that you have created. All the pillars within your home, they belong to you. All the pillars within my own Whare Haka are the pillars of Tānerore, of Hine-te-Rēhia, of poi, of poi genealogy, those are my pillars. The centre ridge pillar of my home is Te Ao Haka. Therefore that’s my Whare Haka.  And that's what I believe Tarita was getting at. I had adopted someone else's whare haka, and the most insightful thing that she had ever said to me at that time was to stop copying someone else and perform your own tū and be your own kaihaka.

    Ko te whare haka ki ahau nei, ko tō whare kua hangaia e koe. Ko ēra pou kei roto i tērā whare, nōu ērā pou. Ko aku pou kei roto i tōku whare haka ko ngā pou o ngā mahi a Tānerore, o Hine-te-Rēhia, o poi, me te whakapapa o poi, koirā aku pou. Ko te poutokomanawa o tōku whare, ko te ao haka. Nō reira koirā tōku whare haka Ka mutu, e whakapono ana au koinā te uho o ngā kōrero a Te Rita. I te whai au i te Whare Haka o tangata kē, ā, i taua wā koinā te māramatanga o āna kōrero, kāti te tū i te tū a tangata kē, ā, me tū koe i tōu ake tū, kia rongomaiwhiti tō tū. 

    That’s some pretty amazing feedback that she had given you. Thank you for sharing that story with us. Now, let’s now move onto our own father figure, to Tīmoti. There’s no doubt about it that there are many cultural gifts which have been handed down to both you and the group. Please share some of those with us.

    Kātahi nei te kōrero mīharo nānā ko tēnā, nō reira tēnā koe i a koe e whāriki i tēnā kōrero. Tēnā kia aro tāua ki tō tātau nei Pāpā, ki a Tīmoti. Kāore au e pōhēhē ana he maha ngā tukuihotanga ki a koe me te kapa, tēnā tukuna mai ētāhi

    2002, action song. I was responsible for the actions at that time, and at that time Whare Wānanga delegated all the actions out, all the items out, and Timoti just writes the words, puts them down, gives it to the kapa and then he goes away and he doesn't come back until it's all final and we can present it to him. So he came back and, well, I had no idea about this, but I got the woman to go down on their knees and perform the waiata-ā-ringa because it was a slow son, and then we were sitting in the auditorium at the Whare Wānanga o Waikato and he said, "I want to see waiata-ā-ringa, kia tere”. And so we performed that and he stopped us.

    2002, waiata-ā-ringa. Nōku te haepapa mō ngā ā-ringa i taua wā, ā i taua wā i tukuna atu e Te Whare Wānanga ngā ā-ringa, ngā waiata ki tēnā, ki tēnā, ā, i riro mā Tīmoti ngā titonga ā-kupu. Ka tukuna atu ngā kupu ki te kapa, ka haere atu ia, waihoki kua kore ia e hoki mai kia mutu rā anō ngā mahi, ā, me whakaatu atu ki a ia. Nā reira, i hoki mai ia, e hika, kāore au i paku mōhio ki tēnei tikanga, engari nāku i whakanoho ngā wāhine, kia noho ki ō rātou pona ki te waiata i te waiata ā-ringa nā te mea he waiata pōturi. Nā reira, i a mātou e noho ana ki te whare tapere i Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato, i kī atu ia, “E hiahia ana au kia kite i te waiata ā-ringa, hurry up”. Nā reira i waiatahia e mātou taua waiata, ka whakamutua tā mātou waiata e ia.

    We didn't even sing the first line. He stopped us and he goes, “Ladies, what are you doing?”.  And he goes, "Why are you all sitting down? A woman shouldn’t get down for no one get up." And he said, "Who did that?" And everyone just... You know those ones, they just went... And I was just like... He goes, "Oh, no wonder." I've had some amazing times with Tīmoti. Those were one of my just, oh gosh, times, and other times when I put a tune to his waiata he's like, “Hmm not too bad”. And then he walks away with a smile so you know koroua’ happy. Otherwise, he'll tell you, because he's straightforward, and the times that we did have in Te Whare wānanga o Waikato with Pāpā Tīmoti,. I acknowledge him for all his teachings that he has left with me, to maintain the essence and prestige of the Māori language.

    Kīhai mātou i waiata i te rārangi tuatahi. Ka kī atu ia, “" kei te aha koutou wahine mā?." Ka kī atu ia Ka kī atu ia, “He aha koutou e noho ana? E kore rawa te wahine e heke whakararo mō tētahi, e tū.” Ka kī ia, “Nā wai tērā i mahi?”

    I pērā te katoa….E mārama ana nē…. I pērā te katoa….i mīharo au…

    Ka whakahoki ia, “Ā, nā whai anō”. Mīharo rawa ētahi o ngā wheako me Tīmoti. Koinā tētahi o ngā wheako, wehi nā. He wā anō tōna i titoa e au te rangi ki tana waiata, ā, kō tāna, "Hmm, āhua pai". Ka menemene ia i a ia e hīkoi atu ana, nā ka mōhio kua harikoa a koroua. Ki te kore e pai ki a ia, ka whakamōhio atu ki a koe, kanohi ki te kanohi. Ko ērā wheako i Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato me pāpā Tīmoti, ko taku whakamiha ki aia ko āna whakaakoranga ki ahau ki te pupuri i te mauri o te reo Māori, me te mana o te reo Māori

    can absolutely feel that.Those role models have instilled those teachings within you, furthermore you pursued your own pathway of Te Ao Haka. You established your own Whare Haka, and now we have reached the current year, the year 2022. Now if we turn to the upcoming Te Matatini, what are some of your thoughts and aspirations that you want to see

    E rongo nei au i tēnā. Kua whakatōngia e ēnā iho pūmanawa ki roto i a koe, nōreira i takahi nei koe i tō ara o te ao haka. I whakarite anō hoki koe i tō whare haka, ana ka tae atu mātau ki tēnei te tau rua mano rua ngahuru mā I rua. Te Matatini, what are some of your thoughts and aspirations that you want to see? Tēnā mēnā ka aro tāua ki te Matatini e tū mai nei, he aha ngā whakaaro āu, ngā manako e hiahia nei koe te kite?

    Gosh! My own aspiration is for the whole world to see our Matatini. According to sources, this is the Matatini of the world. Therefore, we need to broadcast it to the world and not limit it to only New Zealand. So that our children and grandchildren may be able to stand proudly on the stage. To hold steadfast to our Māori language. For us to maintain the marae protocols and customs of each tribe. Those are my aspirations. At this point in time, some of the groups are a bit theatrical, but that’s totally up to them. I believe that the most important thing is that the stories of each tribe are heard. That’s what I do all the time, sit on the side and listen to the language, listen to the stories, the stories are beautiful. But what I do want to see, because it’s a big dream of mine, for all the songs which are sung by each group, not to be left to be sung only once. Revitalise all those songs which go right back to the inception of this festival.

     

    Some of those themes, I remember a poi from a group back in ‘88, that children's theme was beautiful but I haven’t heard that poi again. That’s what I hope for, don’t leave our songs just for the stage. Broadcast them so that the world can hear our stories.

    E kare mā! Manako nui mōku ake. Kia taea ai te ao katoa te kite i tō tātau Matatini. E ai ki te kōrero ko te Matatini o te ao. Nō reira me paaho ki te ao kaua ki a Aotearoa noa iho. Kia tū rangatira ai ā tātau tamariki, mokopuna ki runga i te papa whakatūwaewae. Kia mau ki ai ki tō tātau nei reo Māori, Kia pupuri anō hoki ki ngā kawa o tēnā iwi, o tēnā iwi, ngā tikanga o tēnā iwi, o tēnā iwi. Koirā te manako nui, i ēnei wā nei he āhua whakaari ētahi o ngā kapa, engari kei a rātau kē tēnā. Ko te mea nui ki a au ka rangona ngā kōrero o tēnā iwi, o tēnā iwi. Koirā aku mahi i ngā wā katoa, noho ki te taha whakarongo ki te reo, whakarongo ki ngā kōrero, he ātaahua ngā kōrero. Ko te mea e hiahia ana au te kite, he manako nui nōku, kia kaua ērā waiata ka waiatatia ia kapa, kia kaua e waiata kia kotahi noa te wā. Whakarauorahia ērā waiata, nō te orokohanga mai o tēnei kaupapa. 

     

    Ētahi o ērā kaupapa, maumahra au i tētahi poi nō te tau 88, nō tētahi kapa, he ātaahua te kaupapa o te tamaiti engari kāore anō kia rongo ki tērā poi mai i taua tau. Koirā tāku e manakohia nei kia kaua a tātau waiata e waiatatia ki runga i te ātāmira noa iho. Paaho kia rangona ai te ao katoa i ngā kōrero

    Now,  isn’t the cliché  be strong and unyielding, give our ākonga those tips, or more so, those comments that they don't want to see on their judges' sheets, because they've received the advice from the Papa here, or not getting the comments on their assessment sheets because they received advice. Now, give them that advice, guide them on those and let it be known.

    Nā reira, e ai ki te āki, kia kaha kia ū, hoatu i ngā kōrero akiaki ki ā tātou ākonga, ka mutu, ko ērā kōrero kāore i te hiahia kia kitea ki ngā puka kaiwhakawā, nā te mea kua tukuna e te Papa rā ngā kōrero akiaki, te kore rānei e whai kōrero ki ā rātou puka aromatawai nā te mea kua tukuna te kōrero akiaki. Tena, tukuna ngā kōrero akiaki, arahina rātou ki te huarahi, huarahi, tēnā whakapaaho atu.

    .  One of the things that I have thought about since I began diving into the depths of knowledge within this world of haka, per se. 

     

    I thought, how would I feel if an outsider from a different Whare Haka comes in to assess and judge my Whare Haka? This Whare Haka belongs to me, you know, who is the person to come in, and judge my Whare Haka? I am aware of all the pillars and tukutuku panels within my Whare haka. My role is to show my Whare Haka to the judges. Furthermore, for the younger generation to not be mistaken that your Whare Haka isn’t as good as someone else’s. That’s incorrect. Fill your Whare Haka up with the treasures of our ancestors. Grasp onto those things which you want to adorn your Whare Haka with. Similar to myself, I have grasped onto the poi. The long poi, poi raupō, poi harakeke, poi piu. Those are the things which I want in my Whare Haka. Therefore, grasp onto those treasures that you want.

    Ko tētahi o aku whakaaro i te wā i timata ai au ki te ruruku i ngā ngaru o te mātauranga i roto i tēnei ao haka me kī

     

    I whakaaro ai au, me pēhea tētahi atu, nō tētahi whare haka rerekē e aromatawai, e whakawā rānei i tōku whare haka? Nōku ake tērā whare haka, nā reira ko wai tērā tangata ki te whakawā i tōku whare haka? Kei te mōhio au ki ngā pou kei roto tōku whare, kei te mōhio au ki ngā tukutuku kei roto i tōku whare haka. Ko tāku mahi ko te whakaatu i tōku whare haka ki te kaiwhakawā. Me te mea anō hoki, kia kaua koutou te hunga rangatahi e pōhēhē, ko tō whare haka kāore e pai ake ki tētahi atu, kei te hē tēnā. Whakakīngia e koutou e te hunga rangatahi tō whare haka ki ngā taonga a kui mā, a koro mā. Kapohia ngā taonga e hiahia ana koe hei whakanikoniko i tō whare haka. Pērā anō hoki ki ahau, kua kapohia ake ngā taonga o te poi. O te poi roa, o te poi raupō, o te poi harakeke, o te poi piu, koirā tāku e hiahia nei i roto i tōku whare haka. Nōreira kapohia ērā taonga e hiahia ana e koutou.

    Oh brother we thank you, for the wealth of knowledge which you have laid upon us. We have been very fortunate.

    Ngā mōtoi kura, ngā kōkōtangiwai, ngā kuru pounamu kua hora nei e koe, e te tuakana tēnei rā te mihi atu ki a koe, nō mātau nei te maringanui, mauriora!

    Thank you.

    Kia Ora!

    Outro: 

    Reweti breaking down in converstion and actions of some poi actions followed by him performing waiata and poi dance. Then the image shows a birds eye view of the harbour with boats and a township in the background. A beautiful shot of a river with trees in the background lighten up with the glow of the sunrising in the background. Then the ocean is shown with an island in th distance panning out from behind a close up of some trees branches. A sign is displayed with words “Mataatua, the house that came home, Whakatāne New Zealand. Visitor centre on Mataatua st. shots of the Marae in the background with carvings of its entrance infront of it. Close up shots of the carvings then panning into shots of the front of the marae. Back to close up shots of the entrances carvings. A shot of the harbour with a boat and the sunrising in the background giving the shot a glow of colour from the sunrise. A different shot of the harbour with lots of boats docked and buildings in the background. A footpath is shown that leads to stone beds and carvings with the slightest view of the ocean which has a big hilly island in the distance. Closer shots of the carvings on the stone beds. A shot of waves crashing on the shore with the glistening glow on the water from the sun. a blurred shot of the beach in the background with people walking and one holding a surfboard heading to the water. A shot of the large rock on the beach with the women sculpture at the top. The screen fades to black with the words” Ministry of education, Te Tāhuhu o te Mātauranga” being displayed. 

    [ Accordion ]

    Interviewer: Rawinia Moeau

    Interviewee: Chris Henare and Sandra Waitai Henare

    Location: Te Tai Tokerau

    Intro: 

    [With music playing in the background] 

    Being displayed are video images Waitangi Treaty Grounds and northland beaches. Next is a a close up of the wharf beach and the road sign for Kaikohe. Videos of monuments from the north and the whare runanga at Waitangi Treaty Grounds then back to beaches and a close up on the carved pou. Flicking from images of carvings and beaches with sunsets. Then there is a short snippet of a mural on a street with people walking before shooting to a shot of the Mangamuka Radio station, then the welcome sign in Kaitaia and the road sign of Doubless Bay and Bay of Islands ending with a shot of the Tino rangatiratanga flag before the final shot of Waitangi with Te Tai Tokerau title. The intro closes off with text “Te Ao Haka” accompanied by the Te Ao Haka logo.

    Interview commences with the camera focused on husband and wife Chris Henare and Sandra Waitai Henare sitting in a studio setting with interviewer Rawinia Moeau-Pirini sitting across from them beginning the conversation. Throughout the interview the shot go back and forth between interviewees and interviewer. 

    English

    Māori

    Greetings to you both. We'll just get straight into it. Who are you and where are you from?

    Tēnā kōrua, hei ōku tuākana, e mihi ana. Kia kotahi atu tātou. Ko wai kōrua? Nō hea kōrua?

    Chris: 

    Greetings sister. I’ll start us off. My name is Chris Potiki Henare and I descend from Ngāti Kahu ki Whangaroa, Ngāti Toro, Te Whānau-a-Apanui, Ngāti Porou and Kāi Tahu. That’s me.

     

    Tēnā koe te tuāhine. Māku e tīmata tēnei wāhanga mā tātou. No reria ko Chris Potiki Henare tōku ingoa he uri ahau nō roto o Ngāti Kahu ki Whangaroa. Nō Ngāti Toro, Te Whānau-a-Āpanui, Ngāti Porou me Kāi tahu. Nō reira koirā tāku.

    Sandra: 

    Greetings sister. I am Sandra Waitai Henare. I am from Muriwhenua, Northland and Te Arawa.

     

    Kia ora e te tuāhine. Ko Sandra Waitai Henare ahau. Nō Muriwhenua, Te Hiku o te Ika me Te Arawa.

    Sandra: 

    Kia ora.

     

    Kia ora

    Rawinia:

    So, we're here today for our Te Ao Haka podcast's, and it's an honor and a privilege to be interviewing you both today as mātanga of Te Ao Haka. So we'll start with, where did you start, what was your first experience in the haka world?

     

    Kei konei tātou i tēnei rangi mō te īpāho o Te Ao Haka, ā, nōku te whiwhi kei konei ahau ki te uiui i a kōrua hei mātanga o Te Ao Haka. Kia tīmata tātou, i tīmata kōrua i hea, ā, he aha ō kōrua wheako tuatahi i te ao haka?

    Chris: 

    Well, being the gentleman that I am, I'll let my lovely lady go first and share her kōrero.

     

    Nā te mea he tāne ahau, ka waiho mā te wahine e wāhi ngā kōrero.

    Sandra:

    Ok so, for myself I think my first memory is when I was a really young girl. I was very fortunate to be brought up by my grandparents, my fathers parents, Heni Pere and Te Paea Waitai.

    And from a very young age my grandmother used to dress me up in a piupiu and give me pois and stand me up on a table in the lounge, turn the Tui Teka record on and I used to just stand there twirling my poi, swinging my piu, oh, twirling my piupiu swinging my pois around. 

    So that for me was probably my first memory of anything to do with haka, was poi and piu piu.

    And growing up with my grandparents, they lived in Kaingaroa Forest, I was born in Rotorua. And so being in Rotorua, as you know, is the hub of performing arts. People don't really know this about me, they always just naturally think I'm from the north, but I was actually born in Te Arawa in Rotorua. So yes, memories of my mother's auntie, who performed with Ngāti Rangiwewehi. So I have whānau affiliations to Ngāti Rangiwewehi as well as Tūhourangi Ngati Wāhiao. And growing up as a young person, that was always something that you saw.

     

    There's a picture of me when I was probably about two or three in a Ngāti Rangiwewehi uniform, and from a very young age I always thought, "Oh, man, I'd love to be performing with that team." But, to be honest, to be able to sit and listen to my grandparents singing, traveling from Rotorua, Kaingaroa Forest, home to Te Hāpua to visit, my grandparents always sang in the car, two part harmonies. And it would be like waiata hīmene. And as I got older I became the third part harmony.

     

    But also, when I remember things, I remember my father is a musician, and he was a part of the musos at the Tudor Towers, and I would say they probably were the first Super 12 team. And they used to do cabarets, like hāngī concerts. I used to sit there in the back and watch him play the bass. And his team at that time, it was people like Wetini, Bear Yates,

     

    Nō reira mōku ake, ko taku pūmahara tuatahi i a au e kōhine tonu ana. Nōku te māngari nui i tā ōku kaumātua whakatipu i ahau, ngā mātua o taku pāpā, Heni Pere rāua ko Te Paea Waitai. 

     

    I ahau e tamariki tonu ana, he kaha nō tōku kuia whakarākei i ahau ki te piupiu, ā, ka homai ētahi poi me te whakatū i ahau ki runga i te tēpu, nā, ka whakakāngia te rekoata Tui Teka me taku piu haere i taku poi me taku piupiu. 

     

    Koirā, ki ahau, taku pūmahara tuatahi o te haka, ko te poi me te piu piu.

     

    I tipu ake ahau i te taha o ōku kaumātua, i Kaingaroa Forest, i whānau mai ahau i Rotorua. Ko Rotorua pea te pā o ngā mahi a Rēhia. Te nuinga ka whakaaro nō Te Tai Tokerau tūturu ahau engari i whānau mai ahau i Te Arawa, i Rotorua. He nui aku mahara mō te whaea kēkē o taku māmā, i tū ia me Ngāti Rangiwewehi. He hononga ōku ki a Ngāti Rangiwewehi me Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao. I tō tamarikitanga, ka rite tonu te kitea o te kapa haka.

     

     

     

     

    Tērā tētahi whakaahua ōku, e rua, toru tau pea taku pakeke, i rō kākahu Ngāti Rangiwewehi, ā, i a au e tipu ana, i whakaaro ahau “Kei te pīrangi tū ahau mō tēnei tīma.” I rawe ki a au te noho me te whakarongo ki aku kaumātua e waiata ana, i ō mātou haerenga i Rotorua, i Kaingaroa Forest, ki Te Hāpua, he reo niko wāhanga rua. Me te aha he waiata hīmene. Ka tipu ake ahau, ko au te wāhanga tuatoru.

     

     

     

    Waihoki, ka hoki ngā mahara ki taku pāpā, he ringapuoro ia, he mema ia o ngā kaiwaiata i te Tudor Towers, hei tāna, ko rātou tētahi o ngā tīma Super 12 tuatahi. I waiata rātou i ngā konohete pēnei i ngā konohete hāngī. Ka noho ahau ki muri me te mātaki i a ia e whakatangi ana i te kitā panguru. Me tana tīma, ko te momo pēnei i a Wetini me Bear Yates.

    Rawinia: 

    Yep, wow.

     

    Hika mā.

    Sandra: 

    Yeah, it was a little small group and they did cabaret shows. Dad played the bass or the drums while the pois were twirling and the rākau were going. So from a very young age I'd seen a lot, I'd heard a lot. Music was always part of our family, waiata, singing. So I guess that's where it began for me, from a very young age, standing on my grandparents' coffee table, swinging my piupiu, twirling my pois, listening to my grandparents singing part harmony in the car, watching my aunty performing in cultural groups like Ngāti Rangiwewehi, watching my father performing at the Tudor Towers in a Super 12 Team at that time. So that's where it began for me, that's where I was introduced to the tools of hakas.

     

    Āe, he rōpū iti ka tū i ngā konohete. Ko tā taku pāpā he whakatangi i te kitā panguru, i te pahū rānei, ā, ka rere ko ngā poi me ngā rākau. He nui ngā āhuatanga i kitea, i rangona hoki i taku tamarikitanga. He whānau puoro mātou, ka kaha waiata i ngā wā katoa. I tīmata i reira mōku, i taku tamarikitanga, ka tū i runga i te tēpu a ōku kaumātua me te piu i te poi, me te whakarongo ki aku kaumātua e waiata ana i roto i te waka, te mātaki hoki i taku whaea kēkē i roto i ngā rōpū ahurea pēnei i a Ngāti Rangiwewehi, te mātaki i taku pāpā i Tudor Towers ki tētahi kapa Super 12. I tīmata i reira, koinā taku kuhutanga atu ki ngā āhuatanga o te ao haka.

    Rawinia: 

    Wow.

    Mīharo.

    Sandra: 

    Take it away.

    Kei a koe.

    Chris: 

    Ka pai. My journey was probably a lot different. When I was younger I spent a lot of time on the coast. I spent a lot of time with my mum's whānau down at Raukokore, Te Whānau-a-Apanui. So from a young age I was always going there for reunions or hui mate. So, my experience with kapa haka was actually running around the marae. And as children, we knew where we could and we couldn't go. So while all the mihimihis, and all the kaumātua and kuia were doing the waiata, mōteatea and stuff, we knew we weren't allowed to be running around on the marae ātea, so were always hanging around the back and listening to the waiata. So those are my earliest memories.

    And also, I suppose, one of the most prominent memories is at a hui mate, how a kuia would hotuhotu ērā mahi tangi, ērā tikanga ka āhua ngaro i ēnei rā. But those are memories that I always still hold today because I could feel the wairua, the ihi. But as a young child, I was actually quite scared, quite mataku of all that sort of stuff. So those are all the things that I remember in and around the marae at Raukokore. And in the evenings, mainly on the last night, whānau, or the uncles mainly, would get up and do a haka for the whānau. I was just in awe of some of my pāpās back then, like pāpā Te Kepa, who's my nana's-

     

    Ka pai. He rerekē taku ara. Nōku e tamariki ana, he kaha taku haere ki te Tairāwhiti. He rite tonu taku haere ki te whānau o taku māmā i Raukōkore, i Te Whānau-a-Apanui. I taku tamarikitanga he nui ngā hui ora me ngā hui mate i reira. Ko aku wheako kapa haka i ahu mai i taku omaoma haere i te marae. I mōhio mātou, ngā tamariki, ki ngā rohenga o te marae. Mōhio nei mātou i te wā o ngā mihimihi me ngā mōteatea, kāore te marae ātea i wātea, nō reira ka noho mātou ki muri, ka whakarongo ki ngā waiata. Koinā ngā maharatanga tōmua.

     

     

     

    Me te aha, i ngā hui mate ka hotuhotu ngā kuia, ērā mahi tangi, ērā tikanga ka āhua ngaro i ēnei rā. Koinā ngā maharatanga i titikaha ki te ngākau, i rongo ahau i te wairua me te ihi. Nōku e tamariki ana, i āhua mataku ahau i ērā āhuatanga. Koinā ngā āhuatanga e mahara nei ahau i ngā marae i Raukokore. I ngā ahiahi, i te nuinga o te wā i ngā pō whakamutunga, ka tū te whānau, ngā matua kēkē rānei, ki te haka ki te whānau. Wehi ana ahau i ētahi o aku pāpā, pēnei i a pāpā Te Kepa.

    Rawinia:

    Kepa Sterling.

     

    Kepa Stirling.

    Chris: 

    Kepa Sterling. So I'm from the Sterling whānau myself, and so watching my grand uncles like pāpā Kepa. And they would sometimes get up, because as you know on the coast, the wharekais would have a little stage set up so that they can entertain or for different types of huis. So I remember vividly watching my uncles up there, and my grand uncles, my pāpās up there going through the haka. But the thing that I always remember was that at times it was actually quite funny, because they'd be laughing amongst themselves because sometimes they'd go the wrong way, or doing the wrong actions and all the aunties and the nannies would be laughing. And then all of a sudden they'd switch and it'd be real serious.

     

    And so for me, it started to give me that sense of identity, cultural identity, of who I was and where I belonged.

    So I actually spent quite a lot of time down Te Whānau-a-Apanui when I was younger. And I remember pāpā Te Kepa taking me and my younger brother around different places down to Te Whānau-a-Apanui and we'd have to go and clean the urupā there at Raukokore and stuff. So actually, my grounding was actually down the coast.

     

    On my father's side, from Tai Tokerau, we would come home on the very rare occasions for hui mate and stuff like that, but then it was a different setting again. So my first memories was down in Te Whānau-a-Apanui.

    When I was started to get a bit older, about nine or 10, we moved to Christchurch. And so when I was 10 years old, I remember being taken to what was called, not then, the Aotearoa Māori Traditional Performing Arts Festival. I think it was that, it might've still been the Polynesian festival. 1986, Christchurch at QE II Park. So went along there and my mum took me to the nationals for the kapa haka, and it just opened my eyes to my own sense of cultural belonging. So I was there when I watched club that year, Te Waka Huia, as a young lad, and even though I couldn't understand everything that was going on on the stage, I could feel the ihi, I could feel the wairua.

     

    I felt the power of the performance, and that was always etched in my mind at that young age. And so for me, I had a sense of maybe one day I would be standing on that stage, maybe one day I would be blessed to be part of what I had just witnessed. And so that was just one stepping stone along my journey as a young lad.

    Leaving Christchurch, we moved back to Manurewa, and so it was there-

     

    Āe. He Stirling ahau, ā, i mātaki ahau i aku kaumātua pēnei i a pāpā Kepa. Ka tū noa iho rātou, ā, i ētahi o ngā wharekai he atamira iti, nō reira ka tū rātou ki te whakangahau atu i ngā momo hui maha. Mahara pai ahau ki taku mātaki i ōku pāpā i runga i te atamira e haka ana. Ko tāku e mahara pai nei ko te taha ngahau o ērā mahi, i ōna wā ka hē ngā ringa, kātahi ka pakaru mai te kata a ngā kuia. Mea rawa ake ka huri, ka ōkawa.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     I reira tipu ake ai te taha tuakiri, tuakiri  ā-ahurea, i mōhio ahau he Māori ahau, nō hea hoki ahau.

    He nui aku haerenga ki Te Whānau-a-Apanui nōku e tamariki ana. Nā pāpā Kepa māua ko taku teina i hari ki ngā wāhi rerekē i Te Whānau-a-Apanui ki te whakapai i ngā urupā i Raukokore. I whai tūāpapa ahau i te Tairāwhiti.

     

     

     

    I te taha o taku pāpā, nō te Tai Tokerau ahau, ā, i ōna wā ka hoki mai mātou mō ngā hui mate me ērā momo hui, ka mutu, he rerekē anō. Ko aku maharatanga tōmua i Te Whānau-a-Apanui.

     

    Ka tipu ake ahau, ka 9, 10 tau pea taku pakeke, ka hūnuku mātou ki Ōtautahi. Ka tekau tau taku pakeke, ka haere ahau ki te Aotearoa Māori Traditional Performing Arts Festival. Koinā te ingoa ki taku mōhio, ko te Polynesian Festival rānei. I te tau 1986, i te QE II Park i Ōtautahi. I haere tahi māua ko taku māmā ki te whakataetae kapa haka ā-motu, ā, i hura ōku kanohi ki taku ahurea. I mātaki ahau i a Waka Huia i tērā tau, ā, ahakoa kāore ahau i mōhio ki tā rātou i mahi ai, i rongo ahau i te ihi me te wairua o ngā mahi, ka mutu, titikaha ana ki taku hinengaro. 

     

     

     

     

    Mōku ake, i whakaaro ahau, hei tētahi rā, ko au tērā ka tū i runga i tērā atamira. He ara tērā i taku huarahi ao haka.

     

     

     

    Ka wehe i Ōtautahi, ka hoki ki Manurewa, i reira . .

    Rawinia: 

    South Auckland. Manurewa's South Auckland.

     

    Te tonga o Tāmaki, Manurewa.

    Chris: 

    South Auckland, Rewa hard, where I was lucky enough to meet Hori Pomana, an awesome kaiako who helped to instill really good values. And he sent me on my very first taiaha wānanga at, I think I was 12 and a half. I knew nothing about where I was going or what I was doing, but all we knew was if we were going somewhere for two weeks and it was a taiaha wānanga being run by Irirangi Tiakiawa. And at that time, us young boys, we didn't know much about te ao Māori space in terms of who were the prominent rangatira in that space of mahi.

     

    But I always reflect back to those two weeks as a young boy and what we learnt and some really awesome things we learned, and the friends that I met there. Some one's like Tamihana Ngaropo, ones like Te Reweti, Mete, they were all there, and so we made that connection as young lads. So those are my experiences from a young age. So koirā.

     

    Āe, te tonga o Tāmaki Makaurau, Manurewa ki te manawa, i reira tūtaki ai ahau ki a Hori Pomana, he kaiako pai i whakatō i ētahi uara ki roto i a au. Nāna ahau i tuku ki taku wānanga taiaha tuatahi, 12 tau noa iho taku pakeke. Kāore ahau i paku mōhio he aha te aha, i mōhio noa iho ahau i te haere ahau ki tētahi wānanga taiaha e whakahaerehia ana e Irirangi Tiakiawa. I taua wā, kāore mātou, ngā tama, i mōhio ki te whānuitanga o te ao Māori i te āhua ki ngā tohunga i roto i aua mahi.

     

     

     

    Ka hoki aku mahara i ngā wā katoa ki ērā wiki e rua, ngā āhuatanga i ākona, ngā hononga i hua ake. Te hunga pēnei i a Tamihana Ngaropo, Te Reweti me Mete, i tino hono mātou. Koinā aku wheako i taku taitamarikitanga.

    Rawinia: 

    Wow, that's two very different stories. But what we did get from that is that both of you felt it, you felt that connection and the feeling of that identity and wairua. Awesome, ka pai. So you got into it, you knew you loved it, you got into it, then what? Get into the real stuff.

     

    E rua ērā kōrero mutunga kē mai o te rerekē. Heoi anō, i rongo kōrua tahi i te wairua me te hononga ki te tuakiritanga. Nō reira ka kuhu atu koe ki te ao nei, ka rata hoki, kātahi ka aha? 

     

    Homai ngā kōrero.

    Sandra: 

    So still in the younger ages, so from Rotorua from the age of 12, we moved to Tāmaki, to Auckland, and I was ready to venture to college at that stage. So, as part of our family legacy I guess, my grandmother went to Queen Victoria or Kuīni Wikitōria, so I aspired to do the same thing. So my high school years was at Queen Vic, but prior to getting there, as a family, we'd always been those ones that had to be out the front and entertain. We always did it together.

     

    Nōku e tamariki tonu ana, 12 tau taku pakeke, ka hūnuku ahau i Rotorua ki Tāmaki Makaurau. He whānau Kuīni Wikitōria mātou nō reira i whai ahau i tērā tauira. Nō reira i haere ahau ki Kuīni Wikitōria mō te katoa o ngā tau kura tuarua, heoi anō i mua i tērā, he whānau kaha mātou ki te whakangahau. I mahi ā-whānau mātou.

    Rawinia: 

    Awesome.

     

    Rawe.

    Sandra: 

    My siblings, my dad's sister's children, my cousins, we always grouped together, and our job was to always sing the waiata. It didn't matter where, we had to. They're here.

     

    I waiata tahi mātou ko taku whānau me aku whanaunga. Ahakoa haere ki hea

    Chris: 

    The Waitais are here.

     

    Kei konei ngā Waitai.     

    Sandra: 

    They'll sing the song, they'll do the waiata. So from a very young age, we always stuck together as a whānau.

     

    Mā rātou ngā waiata. I piri tata te whānau nō taku tamarikitanga.

    Rawinia: 

    Beautiful.

     

    Ātaahua.

    Sandra: 

    In Tāmaki, the very first group we joined was Te Wairere o Tāmaki. Now the main tutor, or the leader was Uncle Nick Adams. Yeah, uncle Nick Adams. He was the man there and he tutored the older kids. We were youngish, and Aunty Hilda, which is cousin Thomas' mum, she was the junior tutor. So every weekend we'd spend with Aunty Hilda and our cuzzies in Auckland, training. And for us, it was about being together, having fun. Because that's all you remember when you were younger. It's just having fun, being together. Yes, we had to do waiata. Yes, we had to swing pois, and dress up and put moko on, because that was all exciting back then. But I guess the essence for us was just being together, having that fun. And kapa haka did that for us, kept us together.

     

    So, that was Te Wairere o Tāmaki. From there, like I said, I ended up at Queen Victoria for a couple of years, and that was that was a big change

     

    Ko Te Wairere o Tāmaki te rōpū tuatahi i whai wāhi ai mātou i Tāmaki. Ko Uncle Nick Adams te kaiako matua. Koia te tangata i reira, nāna ngā tamariki pakeke i whakaako. He teina tonu mātou i taua wā, nā Aunty Hilda, te māmā o tō mātou whanaunga, o Thomas, mātou i whakaako. I haere mātou ki a Auntie Hilda me ngā whanaunga i ia mutunga wiki ki te parakatihi. Ko te ngahau te mea nui ki a mātou. Koinā noa iho ngā maharatanga o aua rā. He ngahau te nohotahi. I waiata mātou i ngā wā katoa. I piu i te poi me te mau i ngā kākahu tika, he rawe ērā mahi i aua wā. Ko te mea nui ki a mātou, ko te noho tahi me te ngahau tahi. Nā te kapa haka i tutuki ai ērā āhuatanga.

     

     

     

     

    Ko Te Wairere o Tāmaki tērā. I reira i tae atu ai ahau ki Kuīni Wikitōria, me te aha, he rerekē tērā.

    Rawinia: 

    In terms of haka?

     

    Ā-haka nei?

    Sandra: 

    In terms of haka and just life in general. Being at boarding school, you learnt different values, different rules, and I still hold onto those values to this day. So, in comparison, when you're coming from a whānau team you can get away with quite a bit. But when you went to a place like Queen Vic, wow. All girls school. The things that stand out in my mind at the moment is grace, the gracefulness, the beauty of a young woman.

     

    Ā-haka nei, ā-noho nei hoki. He rerekē ngā uara me ngā ture i te kura noho, he uara e whāia tonutia ana e au i ēnei rā. Hei whakataurite, i roto i te tīma whānau, māmā noa iho te whakangā. Engari anō ngā kura pēnei i a Kuīni Wikitōria. He kura kōtiro. Me tau, me rerehua, me whakaatu i te ātaahua o te wahine.

    Chris: 

    But then you had strong wāhine leaders like Whaea Sylvia Clarke.

     

    He tauira wahine Māori kounga hoki pēnei i a Whaea Sylvia Clarke.

     

    Sandra: 

    Oh, absolutely.

     

    Whaea Sylvia, she was the matron of all matrons. Staunch, but always proud. Her values, like I say, we still hold onto those to this day. Just being disciplined, being disciplined in what you do. In hakas there was no real room for individuality, you did everything together. The same takahia, the same wiri.

     

    Tika tonu.

     

    Ko Whaea Sylvia te whaea o ngā whaea. He taikaha engari he māia. Kei a au tonu ngā uara nāna i whakatō. Te whakaraupapa i roto i ngā mahi. I te ao haka, he iti te wāhi ki te taha takitahi, me takitini kē. Me ōrite te takahi me te wiri.

    Chris: 

    Freestyle.

     

    Poka noa.

    Sandra: 

    Yeah, there was no real freestyle, everything was like, no, beautiful, graceful, real mana wahine.

     

    Āe, kāore he mahi poka noa, he ātaahua, he tau ngā mahi katoa, he āhuatanga mana wahine.

    Rawinia: 

    And they were, and you fellas were.

     

    Ka mutu i pērā koutou.

    Sandra: 

    Yeah, real mana wahine. So, like I said, from whānau teachings where it's all about family, singing as a family, to something that's a little bit more structured, something that has a little bit more, like a real young woman's presence, it was totally different. Yeah, very graceful. That's the word that really sticks out for me about Kuīni Wikitōria, is the gracefulness of the hakas.

     

    Āe, mana wahine. He rerekē te whakawhiti i ngā akoranga ā-whānau, te waiata ā-whānau ki tētahi āhuatanga āhua ōkawa ake, ka whai tikanga, ka whai i te tū a te wahine. He tau te tū. Ko te tau o te tū te āhuatanga i ākona i Kuīni Wikitōria.

    Rawinia: 

    Absolutely, wow.

     

    E mea ana koe. Mīharo.

    Sandra: 

    And then moving on. So, as you know, when you go to Queen Vic, you get to sixth form, seventh form. There was no seventh form in my time, so I tried to go to Auckland Girls' Grammar, didn't last. It was too big, too many people, but I must say, I did do the Poly Fest with the girls. I ended up playing the guitar for the Auckland Girls' Grammar rōpū.

     

    Haere tonu. I Kuīni Wikitōria, kāore he tau tekau mā toru. I ngana ahau ki te haere ki Auckland Girls’ Grammar, engari auare ake, kāore i noho roa. He nui rawa, he tokomaha rawa ngā tāngata, engari i tū ahau i te Polyfest. Ko au te kairakuraku mā te rōpū o Auckland Girls’  Grammar.

    Chris: 

    1989? What year was that?

     

    1989? Tēhea tau?

    Rawina: 

    Wow.

    Mīharo.

    Sandra: 

    I don't even know.

     

    Kāore ahau i te mōhio.

    Chris: 

    Oh, where was the Poly Fest?

     

    I hea te Polyfest?

    Sandra: 

    What's the one after Ngā Tapuwae?

     

    He aha te mea i muri mai i a Ngā Tapuwae?

    Chris: 

    Ngā Tapuwae again.

     

    Ko Ngā Tapuwae anō.

    Sandra: 

    I think it was. I can't remember.

     

    Ko tērā pea. E aua hoki.

    Chris: 

    Because they held it twice.

     

    Nā rātou te kaupapa i manaaki mō ngā tau e rua.

    Sandra: 

    Yeah, I can't remember. But yeah, I was just the guitarist then. And so from there went to James Cook High School. That was totally different again, yeah.

     

    E aua hoki. Ko au te kairakuraku i taua wā. Atu i reira ka peka atu ahau ki James Cook high School. He rerekē anō tērā.

    Rawina: 

    That's South Auckland, Manurewa?

     

    Te tonga o Tāmaki, Manurewa?

    Sandra: 

    South Auckland, Manurewa, yeah. So we lived in Manurewa for quite a bit. Yeah, so James Cook High School, Te Kapunga, Hori Pomana. For myself, I didn't want to involve myself with the kapa haka rōpū. I just thought, "Oh, I'll just go and sit-"

     

    Āe, te tonga o Tāmaki, Manurewa. I noho mātou ki Manurewa mō tētahi wā roa. Āe, nō reira James Cook High School, Te Kapunga, Hori Pomana. Kāore ahau i pīrangi hono atu ki tētahi kapa haka. I whakaaro ahau, “Ka haere noa iho ahau ki te noho .”

    Chris: 

    We were a bit beneath you, were we?

     

    I raro mātou i tō taumata nē?

    Sandra: 

    No, nothing like that, nothing like that. I just thought to myself, no, I want to just concentrate, because it was my last year of kura, concentrate on finding my career, finding what's out there for me.

     

    E hē, i te aro kē ahau ki taku huarahi i muri i te kura i te mea koirā taku tau whakamutunga.

    Chris: 

    With no distractions, eh?

     

     

    Kia kaua koe e kōtiti?

     

    Sandra: 

    With no distractions.

     

     

    Āe, kia kaua e kōtiti.

     

    Rawinia: 

    Nek minnit.

     

    Mea rawa ake.

    Sandra: 

    Yeah, that's right. But with James Cook, because it's such a large school, they had two rōpū, a competitive rōpū and a non-competitive rōpū. I love being around the whare and the marae, so I always just sat out there and I listened to the teams going for it. And Chris, at the time, had just finished kura and he was tutoring the competitive team. And my mates were in the non-competitive team but they didn't have a guitarist, so they said, "Oh, you can play the guitar." I said, "Yeah, I can play the guitar." So I ended up being the guitarist for the non-competitive team. And then, because both teams had to noho together, met this fella. Yeah. You might like to carry on the story there, love.

     

    Āe. Heoi anō i James Cook High School, e rua ngā rōpu nā te nui, he rōpū whakataetae me tētahi rōpū ngahau. He rawe ki a au te noho i ngā marae, ko tāku he whakarongo ki ngā tīma e mahi ana i ā rātou mahi. Kātahi anō a Chris ka wehe i te kura, ko ia tētahi o ngā kaiako o te kapa whakataetae. I roto ōku hoa i te tīma ngahau me te aha kāore he kairakuraku i te tīma, ka tahuri mai ōku hoa ki a au me te kī “He kairakuraku koe nē.” Tere tonu taku kī “āe.” Koirā i tū ai ahau hei kairakuraku mō te tīma whakangahau. Nā te mea i noho tahi ngā tīma e rua, ka tūtaki ahau ki tēnei tangata. Tēnā, kei a koe ināianei e te tau.

    Chris: 

    Yeah. Do I start from when you're chasing me around everywhere?

     

    Me tīmata ki tō whai haere i a au?

    Sandra: 

    You wish.

     

    Ō roke.

    Chris: 

    So my journey was probably a little bit different. Growing up in South Auckland, Manurewa, for me as a young Māori boy, my thing was I was looking for this cultural sense of belonging, which I hadn't fully had. And so when I went to high school and I met Hori Pomana, and then I met the rest of the third formers, or the turds that we were called, the turd formers back then. And I just found a common interest amongst some of the people that I'd met. And they were talking about, "Hey bro, come and join the Māori group," they called it. "Come and join the Māori cultural group." I said, "Oh yeah, that sounds really cool. I'm interested as."

    And so went to along, met Hori. He was quite intimidating because he had a strong presence. And so became part of the kapa haka group. First time I'd ever actually been part of a kapa haka group, and I did my first Poly Fest. It was at Hato Petera. They had the stage right outside, built off of the wharenui. And I remember being so nervous. I remember also my seniors, my first tā moko that I had received and I was feeling so proud, like this is the moment. So, lie down over here, I'm going to give you a moko. And I remember having a look in the mirror and my eyes were just all coloured and black. I must have been the first panda eyes, 1988.

    Yeah, so that was my very first performance, and it just started a whole chain reaction of wanting to do more performances. And the good thing with Hori Pomana, is he was a very tikanga orientated man. Hui mate, if someone passed away, we'd go. And not only would we go, we'd go, we'd be fully dressed in piupiu and everything, and we'd be out there and we'd be performing. Then after that, we'd be helping out in the kitchen.

     

     

    I āhua rerekē taku ara. i te whai ahau i taku hononga ki taku ahurea, nā te mea i tipu ake ahau i te tonga o Tāmaki, i Manurewa, ā, kāore anō ahau kia kite i taua hononga rā. Ka tae atu ahau ki te kura, ka tūtaki ki a Hori Pomana me ngā tau iwa. I pērā mātou katoa. I mea mai rātou “E hoa, haramai ki tō mātou rōpū Māori,” koinā te ingoa e ai ki a rātou. I kī ahau “Āe, hīkaka ana.”

     

     

     

     

     

    Ka haere ahau, ka tūtaki ki a Hori. He āhua whakamatakutanga ia i taua wā, nā tana āhua. Ka whai wāhi ahau ki te rōpū. Koinā taku kapa tuatahi, ā, i tū ahau i te Polyfest. I Hato Petera te kaupapa rā. I tū te atamira i waho i te wharenui. Māharahara nui ahau i taua wā. Kei te mahara hoki ahau ki taku tū pakeke tuatahi, me taku whiwhi moko, i whakahīhī ahau. Mea mai tētahi, takoto i konei, māku tō moko. I titiro ahau ki te mira, ā, i pango katoa ōku whatu. Ko au pea te whatu panda tuatahi i te tau 1988.

     

     

     

    Koinā taku tū tuatahi, ā, i hīkaka ahau ki te haere tonu. Ko te painga o Hori Pomana, ko tana whai i ngā tikanga. Ka mate tētahi, ka haere mātou. Ehara i te mea ka haere noa, engari ka mau piupiu, ka haere ki te haka. Mutu ana ērā mahi, ka kotahi atu ki te kāuta.

     

    Rawinia:

    Wow.

     

    Rawe.

     

    Chris: 

    He'd always take us to Koroneihana every year, and Poly Fest, and we were always performing, we were always doing shows. And the hard case thing about Hori was he would compose and teach us a bracket that would be like an hour and 20 minutes long with absolutely no breaks, like everything just goes rolling straight into each other, everything. And I was talking about tītī tōrea, tī rākau, haka.

     

     

    Ka haere hoki mātou ki te Koroneihana i ia tau me te Polyfest, he nui ngā whakaaturanga, he nui ngā tū. 

    Ko te mea hātakēhi e pā ana ki a Hori, ko tana whakaako mai i a mātou, he kotahi hāora neke atu te roa o ngā mahi, kāore he whakatā. 

    He tītī tōrea, he tī rākau, he haka hoki.

     

    Rawinia:

    Oh, wow.

     

    Oh, hika mā.

    Chris: 

    Yeah, it was a whole performance bracket. But we loved it. I mean, we may not have been the greatest team, but we loved what we did, we were proud of what we did and he instilled that pride in us. And so we'd come away from a Poly Fest. We wouldn't come in the top rankings, but every time we came off he always showed great pride and he always acknowledged us that we tried our best, and if you give your best then he would always be proud. So those are some really good things that I learned from Hori during the high school years.

     

    To be so into kapa haka in that time was not very popular amongst Māori that were at James Cook High School. The student numbers were around about 1800 students. I remember when I was there and when I was in kapa haka, we'd be lucky if we've got five to 10 boys in the kapa haka, because there was this stigma that, "Oh, it's not cool to be in the Māori cultural group." And so for us that were part of it, we always looked at like, "Oh, you Māori's over there." And that's how we were looked at. But for me and my colleagues, we just stuck staunch to what we believed was right.

     

    And so in those times, our Māori unit was a couple of old classrooms that had been moved from somewhere.

     

     

     

    I whai wāhi atu ngā mea katoa. Engari i pai ki a mātou. Ehara pea mātou i te tīma kounga, engari i rawe ki a mātou ngā mahi, ka mutu, nāna te māia i whakatō i roto i a mātou. Whakahīhī ana ia i ā mātou tū i ngā Polyfest, ahakoa kāore mātou i whai tūranga, i whakahīhī tonu ia i ā mātou mahi. Koinā ngā āhuatanga pai i ākona e au i a Hori nōku i te kura. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Kāore te nuinga o ngā Māori i James Cook High Sschool i tino ngākaunui ki ngā mahi kapa haka i taua wā. Tōna 1800 ngā tauira. He wairua kawa e hāngai ana ki te kapa haka nōku i reira, waimarie mēnā e 10 ngā tama ka uru i te mea katoa ngā tāngata i whakaaro “Kāore i te pai te uru atu ki te rōpū ahurea Māori.” Mō mātou i roto i te kapa, i tū ngā ihu o ērā atu ki a mātou. Heoi anō i tū mārō mātou ko ōku hoa ki tā mātou i whakapono ai. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I aua wā ko te wāhanga Māori he akomanga tawhito nō wāhi kē atu. 

     

    Rawinia:

    Prefabs.

     

    He whare hanga noa.

    Chris:

    It was a couple of prefabs that were just put together, it was the basic sort of thing. We never had much, but we had heaps of aroha for the kaupapa of what was happening. So I was lucky to do my training under Hori for a couple of years, and then along came another guy, David Tamanui. 

     

     

    Āe, he whare hanga noa. Kāore mātou i whai rawa engari he nui te aroha ki te kaupapa. Nō reira i waimarie ahau i taku noho i raro i ngā rekereke o Hori mō ētahi tau, kātahi ka tae mai a David Tamanui. 

     

     

    Rawinia:

    Oh, David Tamanui?

     

     

    David Tamanui?

    Chris: 

    Rawiri Tamanui. So he came along and he brought with him one of his good friends, who I then got to know as Uncle Bussy. 

     

     

    Āe, Rawiri Tamanui. Nāna i tō mai tana hoa, a Uncle Bussy. 

    Rawinia:

    Ah.

     

    Ah.

    Chris: 

    So, they came along, and they actually came along with their new lingo, which was like, everything was, "Chur doi, chur doi." They were saying all this stuff. So they bought that in. But through Dave, I got to meet Uncle Bussy. And of course with Uncle Bussy came Aunty Aroha. So slowly got to meet all these prominent people who were in the kapa haka space. 

     

     

    I haere mai rāua me ā rāua kīanga rerekē, katoa ngā kōrero i pēnei, Chur doi, chur doi.” Koinā ā rāua kōrero. Nā rāua ērā kōrero i hari mai. Mā roto mai i a Dave i tūtaki ai ahau ki a Uncle Bussy. I tae mai a Aunty Aroha i te taha o Uncle Bussy. Nāwai rā ka tūtaki ahau ki ēnei mātanga o te ao kapa haka. 

    Rawinia:

    Did you know that at the time before you met them? 

     

    I mōhio koe ki a rātou i mua i tō tūtaki atu? 

    Chris: 

    No, I never knew that at the time. For me, there was just Auntie Aroha, Uncle Bussy, Uncle Greg Motu would come along, and we would wānanga up at Kokiri ki Maungarei and that's where I met kaumatua Whio Motu. So he taught me my very first kōrero, and he showed me how to use a tewha. So I was lucky that Dave was able to make those contacts and bring people to help with my learning. When I was in my last year of school, I was really lucky that he bought in Howie Junior. 

     

     

    Kāo, kaua i taua wā. I mōhio noa iho ahau ki a Auntie Aroha me Uncle Bussy, ā, ka peka mai Uncle Greg Motu, ka wānanga mātou i Kokiri ki Maungarei, i reira tūtaki ai ahau ki a Whio Motu. Nāna ahau i whakaako ki taku kōrero tuatahi me te whiu i te tewha. Waimarie ahau i ērā hononga o Dave. I taku tau whakamutunga, waimarie ahau i tō mai ia i a Howie Junior. 

     

    Rawinia:

    Wow.

     

    Mīharo.

    Chris: 

    So, he came to JC, and he taught me how to use the toki. And so, the toki that I actually used at Poly Fest was his father's toki, which was Sir Howie's toki. So, I got to use that at a Poly Fest. 

     

     

     

    Haramai ia ki JC me te whakaako i a au ki te karawhiu i te toki. I whakamahi ahau i te toki a tana pāpā, a Sir Howie, i te Polyfest. 

    Rawinia:

    Did you even know the significance of that at the time? 

     

    I mōhio koe ki te hirahiratanga i taua wā? 

    Chris: 

    I sort of knew the significance, but not until I got older, then I realized, "Oh my God. Man, I'm so lucky to have spent time with not only Howie Junior, but also just to be able to hold that taonga as well. 

     

    So those are some of my awesome memories of coming into training under Dave Tamanui. He encouraged me to sing, he encouraged me to lead haka. So those were really good things. And then when I left school, I came back to support the group, and when I came back there was some new faces, and I noticed some pretty eyes looking over at me. Nah, but we were actually friends, we just became really good friends because we had a common interest in kapa haka. So, we were friends for quite a while and things sort of happened after that. 

     

     

     

    Tōna mōhio nei, heoi anō ka pakeke ahau, ka mōhio “Waimarie ahau ki te noho tahi ki a Howie Junior me te mau i taua toki rā.” 

     

     

    Koinā ētahi o ngā maharatanga pai o taku noho i raro i ngā rekereke o Dave Tamanui. Nāna ahau i akiaki ki te waiata me te tātaki i te haka. He mea pai ērā. Ka hoki mai ahau ki te kura, i muri mai i taku wehenga, ki te āwhina i te rōpū, ā, i kite ahau i ētahi whatu e kimo mai ana. He hoa māua, he ōrite tō māua kaingākau ki te kapa haka. He hoa māua mō tētahi wā roa, ā, nāwai rā ka hua ake ētahi atu āhuatanga. 

     

    Rawinia:

    So you were taught how to lead haka, and that's what I want to talk about now. Kaitātaki Tāne, Kaitātaki Wāhine, talk about your experiences as a leader. 

     

    Kei te pīrangi kōrero ahau ki a koe e pā ana ki te whakaakona ōu ki te tātaki i te haka. Kaitātaki Tāne, Kaitātaki Wahine, he aha ō kōrua wheako hei kaitātaki? 

     

    Chris:

    Well, I suppose being put into that role was just something that eventually happened. When I was in my younger years at James Cook, like third and fourth form, which would be year nine and 10 now, I observed those who were in front of me, my seniors at that time, and tried to emulate how they did things. And then I was fortunate, like I just said, to have then come under the wing of some really good kaiako that just supported me and helped me to grow. And that was really choice. And so, by the time I was getting ready to leave JC, and having led the team, and been trained under Dave, shown a few things by Howie Junior, being supported by ones like Uncle Bussy who was always around, and that allowed me to meet the Waka Huia whānau inadvertently, with Maihi Nikora. 

     

    And so, when I was 17 I think, I auditioned for Pounamu, Pounamu Training Systems as they were called back then. And so, my tutors were Annette and Tapeta Wehi. 

     

    He āhuatanga tērā i hua noa ake. Nōku i aku tau teina i James Cook, ko taku mahi he mātaki i ngā tuakana me te whai i a rātou. Waimarie hoki ahau i noho ahau ki ngā rekereke o ētahi kaiako tino pai, nā rātou ahau i tautoko, i āwhina hoki. Nā, ka tae ki te wā me wehe i a JC, kua ārahi ahau i te tīma, i ako ahau i tō Dave taha, nā Howie Junior ētahi āhuatanga i whakaatu mai, i tautokohia ahau e Uncle Bussy, he āhuatanga ērā i ārahi i a au ki te whānau o Waka Huia i tō Maihi Nikora taha. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    17 tau taku pakeke, ka whakamātau ahau mō Pounamu, ko Pounamu Training Systems te ingoa i aua rā. Ko Annette rāua ko Tapeta Wehi ngā kaiako. 

     

    Rawinia:

    Ah, yep.

     

    Ka pai.

    Chris:

    And so that was another gradual learning progression for myself. And then that gave me more confidence. And so eventually when I went to club. 

     

     

     

    He huarahi ako anō tērā. I tipu te māia. Nāwai rā ka peka atu ahau ki Club. 

    Rawinia:

    Club?

     

    Club?

    Chris: 

    It's a club, Te Waka Huia, we call that club. So, I was fortunate to be able to go into that space. I was confident that I could, at that age 17, 18, you can take on the world. At that age 17, 18, you can look at others and think, "Yeah, I can do that, I can do what you can do, I could probably even do it a little bit better." Not full of arrogance, but just full of confidence that I had been groomed well, that I had been prepared well and that if a challenge is put in front of me, then I'm just going to smash it. So that was my mindset. 

     

    And being around ones like my tuakana, were ones like Tomika, or ones like Freddy, ones like Tasi. And so just being in and amongst that, and knowing that their tukana above them were ones that Uncle Malcolm, and then had Wi and Boy. I was like, man, that gave me confidence that I was on the right track. So, when it came to things like joining club and being thrown into, "Oh well, here you go Te Manu Huia." "Oh, Te Manu Huia, easy, all good. Give it to me." So, when I was asked to lead the haka... 

     

     

    Ko Te Waka Huia a club. Waimarie ahau i whai wāhi atu ahau ki tērā kaupapa. I mōhio ahau e āhei ana, 17 tau taku pakeke, ko te ao kei mua tonu i a au. 17, 18 rānei tō pakeke, ka whakaaro koe, “E taea ana e au, he pai ake pea au i a koe.” Ehara i te whakahīhī, he māia kē, i whakapono ahau ki ngā whakakoranga, ā, i mōhio ahau ka karawhiu ahau i ngā wero katoa i mua i te aroaro. Koinā taku aronga.  

     

     

     

     

    I rawe te nohotahi atu ki ngā tuākana, te momo pēnei i a Tomika, i a Freddy me Tasi. He pai te nohotahi ki a rātou me te mōhio hoki ki ō rātou tuākana, pēnei i a Uncle Malcolm, a Wi me Boy. I whai kaha ahau i tērā mōhiotanga. Kātahi ahau ka whakahaua kia kuhu atu ki Te Manu Huia, ko tāku, “Manu Huia, ka pai, māmā noa iho.” Kātahi ahau ka tonoa kia tātaki i te haka ... 

     

    Rawinia:

    Was this for Te Manu Huia?

     

    Mō Te Manu Huia?

    Chris: 

    This was for Te Manu Huia, but the haka was Ko Koe Tonu Rā, that famous haka about hauora Māori. And the thing is, is that if you get asked to lead, you're not going to get trained, you should already know all the words for the leadership. And so that was your test, you get thrown on the spot straight away. Even if you just walk in the door. "Okay, you can lead the haka." And so you have to come in prepared, because you didn't roll into that space having no grounding or no preparation. 

     

    Prior to that I had trained at home on the back lawn, leading the haka, leading the haka, because I knew one day, one time, I would be asked by the whānau, "Na, kei a koe." And so I prepared myself mentally for that sort of opportunity, because I knew that if I was given that opportunity you need to step up to the plate. Because that's all I had heard being with the Wehi whānau, that's all I had heard being at Pounamu. 

     

    When you're at Pounamu, you are in a little group and you have to be an all rounder. You've got to do the weaponry demo, you got to be able to hold your space in a small team. And so my confidence was brimming, and when I got asked to lead the haka, I just jumped in there and just went 110, 120, 150 percent. And I could see in the eyes of my tuakana, I could see that they were thinking that, "Yep, we've prepped him well, he's progressing well." And so I just kept pushing, I just kept pushing. And so my goal was to always to try to do the best that I could. 

     

    And as a young fella, I'd always observe the great leaders of haka over the years. And in front of me, I had my tuakana, Chad Brown. I said, "Boy, I'm coming for your spot one day." 

     

     

    Āe, Te Manu Huia, ko te haka ko Ko Koe Tonu Rā, te haka rongonui mō te hauora Māori.  Tōna tikanga, ka mōhio kē te kaitātaki ki ngā kupu. Koinā te whakamātautau tuatahi. Ka tomo koe ki roto i te kūaha, “Ka pai, māu e tātaki.” Nō reira me mōhio koe ki ngā mahi, kia mōhio rātou kua rite koe. 

     

     

     

     

     

    I mua i tērā, katoa aku parakatihi i te kāinga, i waho i taku whare, i runga i te mōhio hei tētahi rā, ka tonoa ahau e te whānau, ka kī mai tētahi, “Na, kei a koe.” Nō reira i āta whakarite ahau i a au anō. Koinā ngā kōrero i rangona e au i te taha o te whānau Wehi, i te taha o Pounamu. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I Pounamu, kei roto koe i tētahi punua rōpū, me te aha, me tau ki ngā āhuatanga katoa. Me mōhio koe ki te piu i te rākau, ki te tū kaha i roto i tō punua tīma. Ka tae mai te tono ki a au, ka tātaki ahau mō te hemo tonu atu. I kite ahau i te whakahīhī i roto i ngā kanohi o ōku tuākana. Nā ka karawhiu tonu ahau i ngā mahi, ko taku whāinga kia eke ki te taumata teitei e taea ana e au. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Nōku e taiohi ana, ka mātaki ahau i ngā tino kaitātaki o te haka i roto i ngā tau, me te aha, i mua tonu i a au, ko taku tuakana, ko Chad Brown. Mea atu ahau ki a ia, “Taihoa ka tū ahau i tō tūranga.” 

     

    Rawinia:

    What was that spot?

     

    He aha taua tūranga?

    Chris:

    Kaitātaki.

     

    Kaitātaki.

    Rawinia?

    Yeah? Wow.

     

    Nē? Mīharo.

    Chris:

    Kaitātaki for Te Waka Huia.

     

    Kaitātaki mō Te Waka Huia.

    Rawinia:

    Yeah.

     

     

    Āe.

    Chris: 

    So, leadership in Manu Huia, but then the grounding that you got there, always being around Uncle Bub was always his kōrero, just kia noho humārie, kia noho whakaiti. Be humble, be grateful, appreciate what you have, but if you get an opportunity, you need to step up and show what you have. 

     

     

    So, the leadership for me started from there. So, I was grateful to have a good grounding, and then going to Te Manu Huia and to club, Waka Huia, man, I just felt like I was right in my element. But I kept pushing and I said, "I want to keep going, I want to be the best, I want to show that I can be the best." That was just a mindset that we had, because that's the mindset that we had with club, going to performance. "Okay, we're going and there and we're going to come out number one." Not in an arrogant sense, but just this mindset of excellence of performance, because that's always something that Uncle Bub always talked about. 

     

    And then of course, that eventuated into the senior ranks amongst my seniors and my tuakana of Te Waka Huia. Just such a privilege, such a honor and learned some really great things from there. Those were the values that are still instilled in me today, and hopefully I've carried them across as we've come home to Muriwhenua, which is a whole nother thing as well, of leadership. 

     

     

    I ako ahau i ngā pūkenga tātaki i Manu Huia, heoi anō ko te tūāpapa i reira, i te taha o Uncle Bub, he rite tonu tana kōrero mai, kia hūmārie, kia noho whakaiti. Kia pērā i ngā wā katoa, engari kia tae te wā ki te tū, me tuku tō katoa, whakaatuhia ō pūkenga katoa. 

     

     

     

     

     I tīmata ngā mahi tātaki i reira. Waimarie ahau i tīmata aku mahi i Te Manu Huia, ka piki ake ai ki a Waka Huia. I hiahia ahau ki te whanake tonu, ko tāku i whai ai kia eke ahau ki te taumata o ngā mahi. Koinā te aronga i Waka Huia, me ngā tū. “Ka pai, ko te angitu te whai.” Ehara i te āhua whakahīhī, engari he whai i te angitu, koinā te kauhau a Uncle Bub i ngā wā katoa. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Kātahi ka whakawhiti ērā kōrero me ērā whakaakoranga ki te rōpū pakeke, ki a Te Waka Huia. He hōnore nui te hono atu ki taua tīma, ā, he nui ngā akoranga. Koinā ngā uara kei a au tonu, me te aha, e tūmanako ana kei te hora ahau i ēnei ki taku kāinga, ki a Muriwhenua. 

     

    Rawinia:

    It sure is.

     

    Kei te pērā.

    Sandra:

    Well, my journey was totally different in terms of leadership. Nothing like Chris' over here. So fast forward 10 years, I went to support Chris in Manu Huia. I helped Uncle Paul in the kitchen. And so, I'm de-pithing fruit and Nan walked in and says, "Do you perform?" 

     

     

    He rerekē taku huarahi i te āhua ki ngā mahi ārahi. He rerekē i tā Chris. I haere ahau ki te tautoko i a Chris i roto i a Manu Huia. I āwhina ahau i a Uncle Paul i roto i te kīhini. Nōku e mahi ana, ka mea mai a Nan, “He kaihaka koe?” 

    Rawinia:

    Just like that?

     

    Koinā noa iho?

    Sandra: 

    Just like that. "Do you perform?" I said, "I can." And she said, "Yeah, Manu Huia needs some people. Want to give it a go?" I said- 

     

     

    Āe. “He kaihaka koe?” Ka whakaae atu ahau. Kātahi ia ka mea mai, “Kei te whai tāngata a Manu Huia, kei te pīrangi tū koe?” Ka mea atu ahau- 

     

     

    Rawinia:

    Oh not a guitarist?

     

    Hei kairakuraku?

    Sandra: 

    No, not a guitarist. Yeah. So, I said, "Oh, okay." So, I said to my husband, "Oh, my goodness, she just asked me if I could perform and Manu Huia needs some people to fill in." I said, "Oh, okay. Yeah, I'll give it a go." So anyway, I had a weekend to learn a bracket. 

     

     

    Kāo, kaua hei kairakuraku. I whakaae atu ahau. Kotahi mutunga wiki anake ki a au hei ako i te katoa o ngā mahi. 

    Sandra: 

    One weekend. And that was pretty hard, pretty hard. So being given a leadership role at that stage, I was like, "Ah." 

     

     

     

    Kotahi te mutunga wiki. He uaua tērā. Me te whiwhi tūranga nui i taua wā, i ohorere ahau. 

    Rawinia:

    You were given a leadership role in your first try?

     

    I whai tūranga nui koe i tō tū tuatahi?

    Sandra:

    Yeah

     

    Āe.

    Rawinia:

    Wow.

     

    Mīharo.

    Sandra: 

    Mm. And I don't know why. I still don't know why to this day. But like Chris was saying, when you are asked to do something, you do it and you do it the best that you can. So my preparation was totally different. Here I am peeling oranges, taking off the white stuff, and next minute I'm learning a bracket and then having to get up. When you have to get up and you have to prove that you have got some goods or something. 

     

     

     

    Kāore ahau i te mōhio he aha i pērā ai. Tē aro i a au i tēnei rā tonu nei. Heoi anō, pēnei i tā Chris i kī ai, ki te whakahaua koe kia mahi i tētahi mahi, me karawhiu mō te hemo tonu atu.  Anei ahau e waru ārani ana, mea rawa ake, kei te ako i ngā mahi kia rite mō te tū. Kia tū koe, me whakaatu ki te marea e tika ana tō whai wāhi atu. 

    Chris:

    Solos.

     

    Ngā waiata takitahi

    Sandra: 

    Solos. I was like “Okay, e tū, Mōteatea.”

     

    Waiata takitahi. I mea ahau, “Ka pai, e tū, Mōteatea.”

    Chris:

    E tū in front of everybody.

     

    E tū i mua i te katoa.

    Sandra: 

    And I'm in front of everybody. I'm like, "Wow, this is just a totally different level. This is a totally different ballgame." I've known about Waka Huia, I've previously met the Wehi whānau through other things, and then to be put into a role like that, it was pretty mind blowing, but an amazing experience in the same token. And like I said, when you're given that opportunity, and if they think and believe you've got the goods to do something, then you just do it, you give it a go. 

     

    E tū ana ahau i mua i te katoa. E whakaaro ana, “Kātahi rā, he rerekē tēnei taumata. He ao atu anō.” I mōhio ahau ki te whānau Wehi, heoi anō i taku whiwhi i taua tūranga rā, i ohorere katoa ahau, me te aha, kātahi te wheako pai. Ka hua ake he mahi pērā, me karawhiu mō te hemo tonu atu, kei te whakapono rātou ki a koe. 

    Rawinia:

    Yeah.

     

    Āe.

    Chris:

    Then you also had to learn two brackets, aye, for the same campaign?

     

    Waihoki i ako koe i ngā hōtaka e rua mo te kaupapa ōrite nē?

    Sandra:

    Oh yes.

     

    Āe.

    Rawinia:

    You had to learn two brackets?

     

    I ako koe i ngā hōtaka e rua?

    Chris: 

    Yeah, she was the reserve for the Waka Huia ladies and the leader for Te Manu Huia at the same time. So learning two brackets, and going between- 

     

     

    Āe, ko ia te kaikapi wahine mō Waka Huia me te kaitātaki mō Manu Huia. I ako ia i ngā hōtaka e rua. 

    Rawinia:

    That’s unheard of.

     

    Kāore anō tērā kia kitea.

    Sandra: 

    And I'd just not long had our son. So this was back in 97, so he was a six week old baby, and this was all going on, and it was like, "Okay, deep breaths. You can do this if this is what you want." Well, at that time I didn't know that's what I wanted, but it was an opportunity in the same token. So yeah, learning Manu's bracket and then being asked to lead different items, that was amazing, what an amazing experience. But the person that I looked up to the most was Aunty Vicky. Her words of inspiration, her words of, "Come on, Sandra, come on, give it." I was like, "Whoa, okay, let's do this." 

     

    But also,I had seniors that were in club Waka Huia that were from Queen Vic. So Moko Templeton, Kristin Kohere, so I already had... So, I was like, "Oh, my tuakana are over there, I'd better do a damn good job." 

     

     

    Kātahi anō hoki ka whānau mai tā māua tama. I te tau 97 tēnei, 6 wiki tana pakeke, i te whakaaro ahau “Hā ki roto. E āhei ana koe mēnā koinei tō hiahia.” Kāore ahau i mōhio ki tāku i hiahia ai i taua wā, engari he mahi mīharo. I rawe te ako i te tū a Manu Huia me te tātaki i ētahi o ngā mahi, he wheako rawe rawa atu. Ko Aunty Vicky taku tino iho pūmanawa. Ko āna kupu whakaawe i a au ko “Kia kaha Sandra, tukuna.” I te whakaaro ahau, “Ka pai, ki te hoe.” 

     

     

     

     

     

    I roto hoki ētahi o aku pakeke nō Kuīni Wikitōria i a Waka Huia. Te momo pēnei i a Moko Templeton me Kristin Kohere, nō reira i te whakaaro ahau “Kei konei aku tuākana, me pai aku mahi.” 

     

    Rawinia:

    Yeah. Wow, awesome. 

     

    Rawe. Mōharo.

    Sandra: 

    And then learning two brackets. Then the year of 98, I had the privilege of leading Te Manu Huia on stage. 

     

     

    Kātahi ka ako i ngā hōtaka e rua. I te tau 98, nōku te whiwhi i tātaki ahau i a Manu Huia i runga i te atamira. 

    Rawinia:

    And then swiftly moved on to Te Waka Huia

     

    Kātahi ka piki ki a Waka Huia. 

    Sandra:

    Swiftly moved on to Te Waka Huia. 

     

    Ka piki tere ki a Te Waka Huia. 

    Rawinia:

    And maybe not kaitāitaki wāhine, but a soloist. 

     

    Ehara pea hei kaitātaki wahine, engari he kaiwaiata takitahi. 

    Sandra:

    But once again, like you say, when you are given that opportunity, you do it, and you do it well. 

     

    Pēnei i tō kōrero, ki te ara ake he mahi, karawhiua mō te hemo tonu atu. 

    Chris:

    And you're really groomed by aunty Nan to be under pressure and still pull out the goods. 

     

    Nā Aunty Nen i whakatō te āhua o te eke i roto i ngā horopaki uaua. 

    Sandra: 

    Yeah, it felt like that, because at the time we had decided, "Okay, well the rest of our whānau, let's bring the rest of my siblings and see if they can have a go at Manu Huia." So it was a progression as a whānau. And I don't know if you notice, when we do something, the rest will follow. And it's been like that our whole, entire lives. And so the pressure was on, because now I'm training with siblings and cousins, and as we all know in that game, you have to be at the highest level of everything. Fitness, you have to be ready with your children. It's all the behind scenes, all the stuff that happens prior to getting to a noho that you have to be prepared for. So the pressure was certainly on because if one of your whānau members don't make it, the rest of us get affected in some sort of way. 

     

     

    Koinā te āhua i taua wā, i whakaaro ake ahau, “Me tō mai pea i te toenga o taku whānau, ka whai wāhi atu pea rātou ki a Manu Huia.” He whanaketanga ā-whānau. Kāore pea koe i te mōhio, heoi anō, kia mahi mātou i tētahi mahi, ko te katoa ka whai i taua mahi rā. Kua pērā nō mai anō. Nō reira ka rongo mātou katoa i te uaua o ngā mahi, nā te mea me eke mātou katoa. Te whakapakari tinana, me rite hoki ngā tamariki. Me rite ngā āhuatanga katoa i tua atu o te atamira. He uaua nā te mea ki te kore tētahi o te whānau e whai wāhi atu, ka rongo te katoa i tērā pānga. 

    Rawinia:

    Yeah absolutely. Don’t make the team, you mean?

     

    E mea ana koe. He aha te tikanga o tērā kōrero, e kore e whai wāhi atu?

    Sandra:

    Yeah, that don't make the team. I think there were, how many of us trialing for 2000? There was me, Chris, Daniel, Thomas, Samantha, Hera, Renee. And out of the seven of us, six of us made it, but Renee, Cousin Renee, she led Manu's, same sort of thing as me. 

     

    Te kore i whai wāhi atu ki te tīma. Tokohia mātou i whakamātau mō te tīma i te tau 2000? Ko mātou ko Chris, ko Daniel, ko Thomas, ko Samantha, ko Hera me Renee. Tokoono o roto i te tokowhitu ka whai wāhi atu, heoi anō te whanaunga, a Renee, i tātaki ia i a Manu Huia, pēnei i a au i ērā tau. 

    Rawinia:

    Beautiful. Wow. Is there anything else you want to share about your time in Waka Huia before we move on to mighty Muriwhenua? 

     

    Ātaahua. He kōrero atu anō e pā ana ki tō noho i Waka Huia i mua i te whakawhiti atu ki Muriwhenua? 

    Chris:

    Just-

     

    Sandra:

    The lessons.

     

    Ngā akoranga.

    Chris:

    Yeah. We learnt some really good life lessons that we still carry today, and sometimes when we find things maybe difficult, or in a sticking point or sticking place, we reflect back on values and lessons that were shared with us from uncle and auntie. And one of the things that really sticks out in my mind is giving opportunity for others. 

     

    Āe. He nui ngā akoranga ka titikaha ki te ngākau, i ōna wā ka rongo i te uaua, i te taumaha rānei, hei reira hoki atu ai ki ngā akoranga me ngā uara nā Uncle rāua ko Aunty i tuku mai. Ko tētahi o ngā tino ko te tuku i ngā mahi ki ētahi atu. 

    Sandra:

    They never judged us.

     

    Kāore rāua i whakawā.

    Chris:

    They never judged you in terms of...

     

    Kāore i whakawā i a koe i te āhua ki...

    Sandra:

    Who you were, where you came from, what's your background. Because koro always said, "Everyone has a story." 

     

    Tō whakapapa, nō hea koe, tō hītori. Ko tā Koro, “He kōrero tō ngā tāngata katoa.” 

    Chris:

    Yeah. And everyone has a place. And he had such a big heart that from people from all walks of life were given an opportunity to walk into this space, and to be in a learning space, to be in a sharing space, to be in a safe space, because Uncle Bub always was prominent in his whakaaro about the roles of tāne and wāhine, and the roles of keeping the space safe. He was always talking about and encouraging us, "Hey, you fellas, stop the drinking. Hey, we won't have any of this funny business over here." If he talked about men mistreating their woman, he'd always come and give us the stern talking to. "Hey, I don't want to hear about any of you boys doing any of this sort of stuff," if this sort of things happened. 

     

    He wāhi mō ngā tāngata katoa. He nui tōna manawa, ahakoa ko wai te tangata, ka pōhiritia ia ki tēnei wāhi āhuru, he wāhi ako, he kaha a Uncle Bub ki te aro ki ngā mahi a te tāne me te wahine, me ngā mahi whakahaumaru i ērā wāhi. He kaha tana kī mai ki a mātou, “Me mutu te inu waipiro, kaua e pōrangi i konei.” Mēnā ia ka kōrero mō ngā mahi kino a ngā tāne ki ā rātou wahine, ka kotahi mai ia ki a mātou ki te kōrero ki a mātou. “Kaua rawa koutou e pērā,” ki te pērā ngā mahi. 

    Sandra:

    He just genuinely cared about anything and everything he did. 

     

    I tino arohanui ia ki ngā mea katoa e hāngai ana ki a mātou. 

    Chris:

    Yeah, he just genuinely cared about the men. There'd be times when he'd get all the men, "Oh, come in here you men." We'd sit down and he goes, "Okay, I'm going to talk about." Aunty Nen would come in and she'd sit in. "Okay men, we're going to talk about prostate cancer." And Aunty Nen would get up and say, "Oh, I don't need to be in here." But it's been because he had a genuine concern about the health of the men. 

     

    He nui tana aroha ki ngā tāne. Tērā ētahi wā ka karanga atu ia ki ngā tāne, “Haramai tāne mā.” Ka noho mātou, ka kī mai ia, “Ka pai, kei te pīrangi kōrero ahau.” Ka noho mai a Nan. “Kei te pīrangi kōrero ahau mō te mate pukupuku repe tātea.” Ka tū a Nan ka kī, “Kāore he take o taku noho mai.” Nā tana aroha nui ki te hauora o ngā tāne. 

    Sandra:

    Yes, health and wellbeing.

     

    Āe, te hauora me te oranga tonutanga.

    Chris:

    He always urged the men to be healthy, to eat healthy kai. And so, his concern was more than just the kapa haka.

     

    He kaha tana akiaki i ngā tāne ki te kai i ngā kai pai. 

    Ka aro ia ki ngā āhuatanga i waho ati i te kapa haka.

    Rawinia:

    Yea, more than the stage.

     

    Āe, neke atu i te atamira.

    Chris:

    Yeah, it was more than the stage. So his concern was about the welfare and how are our whānaus within this space? How are our men? How are our wāhine? there? So those are the values that I learned from Uncle Bub, so those are things that we make sure that we try to continue within our space of kapa haka. There's the stage stuff, but then off the stage, how is our whānau environment? How are our members in terms of everything that's going on and how can we support everybody? 

     

    Āe, i neke atu i te atamira. Nō reira ko tana aronga te ora o ngā whānau i roto i tēnei wāhi? Kei te pēhea ngā tāne? Kei te pēhea ngā wāhine? Koinā ngā uara i whakaakona mai e Uncle Bub me te aha ka ngana ahau ki te kawe i ērā mahi ki roto i ngā wāhi kapa haka katoa. Ko ngā mahi i runga i te atamira, i tua hoki o te atamira, kei te pēhea te ao o te whānau? Kei te pēhea ngā mema, ā, he aha ētahi mahi hei āwhina i a rātou? 

     

     

     

    Sandra:

    So what we learned is haka is not a hobby, hakas is definitely a lifestyle.

     

    Ehara a kapa haka i te kaupapa kaingākau, he momo oranga.

    Chris:

    Yeah. And then with Aunty Nen, wow she was a hard task master as you know, eh Sis?

     

    Āe, ka mutu, Aunty Nen, he taikaha ia, nē, tuahine?

    Rawinia:

    Yip.

     

    Āe.

    Chris:

    But she was that way inclined because when it comes to doing the mahi and getting the results, that's what's required. And so it goes hand in hand, the discipline of the mahi, but also making sure that we set up good support systems to awhi the team. So those are the real leadership qualities that we picked up.

    And of course, as we know, Uncle Bub on the stage leading the haka, there was no one else to compare to him leading the haka in terms of the ihi, in terms of the drive in that haka space, te haka ā Tane-Rore. For those of us that have been there, those of us that have stood in the rows and felt the power of Uncle Bub's voice as he walks up these ranks, man, what I can remember is feeling like my body's on fire. What I can remember is feeling like I'm invincible. That was the feeling that you got when you're in the rows and Uncle Bub's leading. For that moment, for those three minutes, you become immortal and you live forever. That was the power of Uncle Bub leading the haka.

    And so for us, man, we're just so humble and grateful to have been in that space at that time, because it's still things that I reflect on, it's things that we reflect on. Things that I try to teach my young leaders is, "Hey, when it's time to lead you are the inspiration, you are the driving force that takes the haka taparahi, or the haka eke, or whatever item, takes from here to there." And Uncle Bub always talked about starting strong and finishing stronger, all those sort of things. So those are things we try to emulate and share with our whānau, even though it's a different context coming from a big team that's always hitting the top level of competitive kapa haka, coming home, it was like...

     

    I pērā ia nā te mea ki te whiwhi i ngā pāinga, me pērā ngā mahi. E noho tahi ana ērā āhuatanga, me ū ki ngā mahi, me whakarite pūnaha tautoko hoki hei āwhina i te tīma. Koinā ngā pūmanawa i ākona.

     

     

    Kāore he tangata i tua atu i a Uncle Bub mō te tātaki i te haka i runga i te atamira, tana ihi, tana pupuri i te manawataki, te haka a Tānerore. Mō te hunga mōhio, kua tū ki te haka i te wā e tātaki ana a Uncle Bub, kāore he kupu, ānō e wera ana taku kiri. I whakaaro ahau he atua ahau. Koinā te āhua o ngā kare ā-roto nō Koro Bub e tātaki ana. I taua wā rā, i aua mēneti e toru, he atua koe. Koinā te kaha o ngā mahi tātaki a Uncle Bub.

     

     

     

     

    He hōnore nui mō mātou, he āhuatanga hei whirinakitanga, hei hokinga maharatanga anō hoki. Ka pēnā taku whakaako i ngā rangatira o āpōpō, “Kia tae te wā ka tū koe hei kaitātaki, ko koe te kaiwhakaawe, te manawataki, te kaikawe i te haka i konei ki konā.” Hei tā Uncle Bub, kia kaha te tīmatanga, kia kaha ake te whakatepenga, koirā ngā momo kōrero. Ka ngana mātou ki te whai i ērā kōrero me te whakaatu atu ki te whānau, ahakoa te rerekē o te horopaki, me eke ki taua taumata o te tīma whakataetae, ka hoki mai mātou ki te kāinga, he āhua . . .

    Sandra:

    Totally different.

    He rerekē rawa atu.

    Rawinia:

    Home in Te Tai Tokerau, eh?

    Te Kāinga i Te Tai Tokerau nei?

    Sandra:

    Home in Te Tai Tokerau, yeah.

    Āe, te kāinga i Te Tai Tokerau nei.

    Chris:

    Coming home to Te Tai Tokerau.

    Te hoki mai ki te kāinga ki Te Tai Tokerau nei.

    Rawinia:

    To start your own roopū.

    Ki te tīmata i tō roopū?

    Chris:

    To start the roopū and sharing, but it always comes back to what Uncle Bub urged us to do, was to come home and share, to come home and uplift our people, come home and give back. Because it's not about you yourself, you've had your time up there, you've had your time up there and that's all cool, you've done well and that, but what are you doing for others? What can you do for others? Can you give others opportunity? Can you uplift your community?

    Ki te whakatū rōpū me te whakaatu i ngā mahi, ka hoki ki ngā kōrero a Uncle Bub, me hoki ki te kāinga ki te tuku i ngā mahi me te whakapiki i ngā tāngata, he whakahoki i te aroha ki te kāinga. Kia whānui te titiro, me mutu te whakaaro mōu anake, kua ea te wāhi ki a koe, he aha ō mahi mō ētahi atu? Ka aha koe mō ētahi atu? Ka whakarite wāhi koe mō ētahi atu? E āhei ana koe te whakapiki i te ora o tō hapori?

    Sandra:

    Can you inspire your community?

    E āhei ana koe te whakaawe i tō hapori?

     

    Chris:

    Can you inspire your community? So we came home with these-

    E āhei ana koe te whakaawe i tō hapori? Nō reira ka whakahokia mai ko ēnei.

    Sandra:

    Great intentions.

    He takune pai.

     

    Chris:

    With these, "We're going straight to the top, we're going straight to the top line whānau." Only because that was our competitive mindset.

     

    Me te whakaaro, “Ka eke mātou ki te toi o ngā mahi, e te whānau.” Nā te mea koirā te aronga.

     

    Sandra:

    That’s all we knew.

    Koinā noa iho tā mātou i mōhio ai.

    Chris:

    That’s all we knew.

    E mea ana koe.

    Sandra:

    That’s all we knew. So whenyou come home and you think, “Hey, let’s go, let’s get in to it.” And it’s like, oh right back to grassroots.

    Tika hoki. Nō reira ka hoki atu koe ki te kāinga, ka whakaaro ake, “Ka pai, kia kotahi atu ki ngā mahi,” Engari ko te kāinga tēnei.

    Chris:

    Yeah, it has to restart and reset.

    Me tīmata anō.

    Rawinia:

    Well, that's it, the grassroots in Te Tai Tokerau. You've got all these learnings and these gems to share, but remembering it's Te Tai Tokerau.

    Differences in styles. What were those obstacles or differences? The things you had to struggle with or not struggle with?

    Āe, ko te kāinga i Te Tai Tokerau. He nui ngā akoranga me ngā kura huna hei tuku engari me mahara ake, ko Te Tai Tokerau Tēnei.

    He rerekē ngā tāera. He aha aua taupā, aua rerekētanga rānei? Ngā mea uaua, māmā hoki?

    Chris:

    Well, I think it's, when we did come home we spent quite a few years actually teaching a lot of tamariki, who then after 10, 15 years became adults. And so it allowed us to continue the progression with ones that we've worked with who are now become young adults, but also allow other people from the community to come home. But then it also reminded us that we actually need to do a lot of rangahau, a lot of research into Tai Tokerau kōrero, into Tai Tokerau hītori. And then we came to the realization that actually, for us, it's different now coming home, because it's not so much about the competitive stuff, it's about connecting our people to their tātai hekenga, the whakapapa ō te kāinga, hītori ō te kāinga and making sure that we are being genuine with the kōrero narratives and stuff, and making sure that all those things are in place first.

    So it was a journey for us in terms of coming home and learning the te mita ō te kāinga , in terms of learning tikanga of why we do things up here and the purpose. And so our mindsets started to change from competitive, competitive, I want to win everything all the time, to actually coming back to grassroots and sharing the history, sharing whakapapa connections and researching the styles of certain roopū. So for us, when we did decide to start up a team called Muriwhenua, the name actually came from my wife's grandparents who always talked about ko Muriwhenua te rohe. And so for us it was about trying to discover it. So we named the team Muriwhenua, only to find that actually there was originally, in 1972, the first Muriwhenua team was there at that time.

     

    I te hokitanga mai ki te kāinga, ka roa māua e whakaako ana i ngā tamariki, ka hipa te 10, 15 tau, nāwai rā kua pakeke. Nō reira māmā noa iho te kawe tonu i ngā mahi i tō rātou taha me te whakarite wāhi e hoki mai ai ētahi ki te kāinga. He whakamaharatanga pai hoki mō mātou nā te mea ka mate mātou ki te rangahau i ngā kōrero me ngā hītori o te Tai Tokerau. Kātahi te kapa ka taka, he rerekē ngā mahi i te kāinga, ehara te whakataetae i te aronga, ko te whakahono anō i ngā tāngata ki ō rātou tātai hekenga, te whakapapa o te kāinga, te hītori o te kāinga hoki, waihoki kia mōhio rātou ki ērā kōrero katoa i te tuatahi.

     

     

     

    Nō reira he ara roa mō mātou te hoki ki te kāinga me te ako i te mita, i ngā tikanga me ngā whāinga. Ka huri tō mātou tāera i te tāera whakataetae ki te tāera tuku kōrero mō te kāinga, mō te whakapapa me te rangahau i ngā tāera a ngā momo rōpū. I hua ake te ingoa Muriwhenua i ngā kaumātua o taku makau, he rite tonu tā rātou kī “Ko Muriwhenua te rohe.” Nō reira ko tā mātou he hura i tērā rohe. Ka whakaingoa mātou i te rōpū, heoi anō kātahi mātou ka mōhio, he tīma Muriwhenua kē nō te tau 1972.

    Rawinia:

    Wow.

    Mīharo.

    Sandra:

    We never ever knew that.

    Kāore mātou i mōhio.                                                                 

    Chris:

    But we never actually knew that. So we were like, "Oh man, actually let's do some more research." And so through the research we started to learn different tikanga and aspects that teams from up home used to have. And so there's a really awesome kōrero and narratives.

     

     

    Kāore mātou i mōhio. Nō reira ka mate mātou ki te rangahau. I roto i ngā mahi rangahau, ka kite mātou i ētahi o ngā tikanga me ngā whakahaere rerekē i kawea ake e ngā tīma o te kāinga. He rawe ngā kōrero me ngā pūrākau.

     

     

    Rawinia:

    What are they?

    He aha ērā?

    Chris:

    Well, the true northern style for Muriwhenua in Te Rarawa over that side was more simple there. The more simplistic style of kapa haka. Not so overly aggressive.

     

     

    He māmā noa iho te tāera a Muriwhenua i tā Te Rarawa. He tāera kapa haka māmā. Ehara i te tāera taikaha.

    Sandra:

    Just real ngāwari.

    He ngāwari noa iho.

    Chris:

    Real ngāwari. Kia māmā te haere And certain things, which are actually quite similar to some other rohe, but they were mainly dictated by the taiao, the environment, things that were happening at that time. So for example, our Te Rarawa and our Muriwhenua team out on the coast on 90 miles side, for the men, their kākahu was rimurimu. So the seaweed was their was their maro and some of the movements reflected the moana, the taiao. And there were certain tikanga that's eroded now because we all need heaps of choreography, we need to give the wow factor, the X factor, but there was certain tikanga that we always stuck to. One was there was never any splitting of the ranks. And so now we have teams that open up, here comes the ti hangai, and we want to run around, and here comes the revolving door and all this sort of stuff going on. 

    That was never really done in those days. The tikanga was to stay in the rows as the men come forward, the men come forward through the space, through the gaps, and then the men go back without turning around. Just all those simple tikanga things. But for us, it's been a journey of discovery, and research and trying to align the kōrero narratives with what we do, why we do it now. So things now, for us, are based in around tikanga, having a purpose and a reason for doing things. Why are we doing this for? What does this mean? What's the whakapapa connection? Who are the tupuna? So those are things that we are implementing at the moment, as well as- 

     

     

    He tino ngāwari. Kia māmā te haere. He āhua ōrite ki ētahi atu rohe, he mea whakahau mātou e ngā āhuatanga o te taiao me ngā kaupapa o te wā. Hei tauira, he rimurimu ngā kākahu o ngā tāne o ngā tīma o Te Rarawa me Muriwhenua. He maro te rimurimu, ā, ko ngā nekehanga ka whakaahua i te moana, i te taiao tonu. He tikanga kua rerekē i ēnei rā nā te nui o ngā nekehanga, e whai ana ko te kura huna, heoi anō kua ū mātou ki tērā tikanga. Ko tētahi atu tikanga ko te noho pū a te tīma, arā kāore i wāhihia, engari i ēnei rangi ka kitea te tī hangaia me ngā āhua kūaha nekeneke, ērā momo. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Kāore i tino pērā i aua rā. Ko te tikanga ko te noho i ngā rārangi, ka neke whakamua ngā tāne mā roto mai i ngā rārangi, kātahi ka hoki atu, e kore e huri. 

    Ko aua tikanga māmā. He ara whai tuakiri tēnei, he ara rangahau me te whakahāngai i ngā kōrero ki ā mātou mahi. He aha i mahi ai i ēnei mahi? He aha te tikanga o ēnei mahi? He aha te hononga whakapapa? Ko wai ngā tūpuna? Koinā ngā āhuatanga e whakatinanahia ana i te wā nei me te- 

     

    Rawinia:

    An example?

     

    He tauira?

    Sandra:

    The takahi.

     

    Te takahi

    Chris:

    The takahi.

     

    Te takahi.

    Rawinia:

    What’s that?

     

    He aha tērā?

    Sandra:

    The pipi swivel, or the pipi shuffle, as some refer it to.

     

    Te pipi swivel, te pipi shuffle ki ētahi.

    Chris:

    Yeah, so the pipi shuffle, there's other kupu for it, but that was a prominent takahia for our wāhine from up north, but mostly for coastal hapu, for coastal iwi. 

     

    Ko te pipi shuffle te kupu matua mō te takahi a ngā wāhine o te Tai Tokerau, te nuinga o ngā hapū me ngā iwi nōho takutai. 

     

    Rawinia:

    Okay.

     

    Ka pai.

    Chris:

    Another tikanga that I found quite interesting learning was that Tai Tokerau and we used to have a hako.

     

    Ko ētahi atu tikanga pai ko tā Te Tai Tokerau whakamahi I te hako.

    Rawinia:

    Oh.

     

    Nē?

    Chris:

    A hako.

     

    Āe, he hako.

    Rawinia:

    What’s a hako?

     

    He aha te hako?

    Chris:

    A hako would be a person that would lead your group on to the stage. So, in terms of whakaeke, you would start on this one side and as the woman chant, "Ah da da, ah da da da," men would be, "Hurrah ra ta, da da, da da da." But leading them on would be the hako, and he would be making gestures and trying to get laughs out of the crowd. And the crowd would be, "Ah!" And then all of a sudden he'd change it up and serious. And then the group would come on and they'd boom, boom, boom. 

     

    Ko te hako te tangata ārahi i te rōpū i runga i te atamira. I te āhua ki te whakaeke, ka tīmata ki tētahi taha, ko tā ngā wāhine he “ah da da, ah da da,” ko tā ngā tāne he “hurrah ra ta, da da, da da da.” Heoi anō ko te hako ka ārahi i a rātou, ko tāna he karawhiu i ētahi ringa rerekē hei whakangahau i te hunga mātakitaki. Ka mīharo te hunga mātakitaki, kātahi ia ka rerekē anō, ka ōkawa, mea rawa ake kua whakaeke mai te rōpū, ā, kua kēhi. 

    Rawinia:

    Like your uncles in the say.

     

    Pēnei i ō matua kēkē i ngā rā o mua.

    Chris:

    Yeah, sory of, pretty much like that. So that was the style. More simplistic, but then you had these key features or characters like the hako. And so some people enjoyed the performance because they're waiting for the hako. And the hako played a really prominent role in it. So those sort of things have been lost, sort of, because now sometimes we have two rows of hako. 

     

    And I remember Uncle Bub always talked about the hako. And us in Waka Huia, we always made a joke, "Oh, the bros the hako." So those sort of things. 

     

    Another thing I learned was in terms of the original Muriwhenua team, for the men, we'd have two rows of kotiate. 

     

    Āe, pēnā. Koinā te tāera. He māmā engari he kiripuaki, he āhuatanga rānei ka pakō pēnei i te hako. I ōna wā e whanga ana te hunga mātakitaki kia puta mai te hako. He nui te mahi a te hako. Kua āhua ngaro ērā āhuatanga i te mea e rua ngā rārangi hako ināianei. 

     

     

     

     

     

    He kaha tā Uncle Bub kōrero mō te hako. He kōrero kata te hako i waenganui i a mātou o Waka Huia, “Te āhua nei he hako tērā tangata.” Ērā momo āhuatanga. 

     

     

    Ko tētahi atu āhuatanga i ākona ko tā ngā tane o Muriwhenua tū me ngā kotiate, ngā rārangi e rua. 

    Rawinia:

    Oh.

     

    Nē?

    Chris:

    You have two rows of kotiate, which you don't see anyone having two rows of kotiate. And only the kaitātaki had the taiaha or the tewhatewha, so only the leader had the long weapon and the rows of men had the short weapon. 

     

    Āe, e rua ngā rārangi mau kotiate, me uaua ka kitea tērā. Ko te kaitātaki anake e mau ana i te taiaha, i te tewhatewha rānei, māna te rākau roa, mā te rōpū ngā rākau poto. 

                  

    Rawinia:

    Reasons for that?

     

    He aha ai?

    Chris:  

    That was just the tikanga. The leader would be recognized by the long rākau and the men used kotiate. So there's many other narratives that we're researching and stuff, and over time we are going to hopefully implement it. But some of the stuff that we have integrated at the moment is based on narratives of kōrero that relate to us as Muriwhenua. So one korero is ko ngā iwi ō runga, ki te Hiku-o-te-Ika a Muriwhenua. Ko ngā kaitiaki ō Te Rerenga Wairua. So for those of us that reside in the far north, we are known as the guardians of the spiritual realm or the pathway to the spirits. So we've always had this narrative of us being on the whenua amongst the people that walk through.

    So ki ētahi kōrero, the spirit walkers is tētahi momo. So hence we've adapted the ko te puhoro engari ka āhua mā te tai, so just representing our connection to that kōrero.

     

    So through research we are finding old narratives, but we are also trying to initiate and incorporate old kōrero but with a new type of momo. And I suppose it's trying to find a balance between sticking to tikanga and tradition, and still trying to have this edge-

     

     

    Koinā te tikanga. Ka kitea te kaitātaki nā tana karawhiu i te rākau roa, ko te rōpū ka mau i te rākau poto. He nui ngā kōrero pērā e rangahaua ana kia pai ai tā mātou whakatinana. Ko ētahi o ngā āhuatanga kua whakatinanatia kētia, i ahu mai i ngā kōrero mō Muriwhenua. Pēnei i tēnei – Ko ngā iwi o runga, ki te Hiku-o-te-Ika a Muriwhenua. Ko ngā kaitiaki o Te Rerenga Wairua. Mōhiotia ana mātou o te nōta hei kaitiaki i te ao wairua, i te rerenga wairua rānei. Kua roa tēnei kōrero e ora ana mō mātou i runga i te whenua.

     

     

     

     

    Ki ētahi, he momo te hunga hīkoi me ngā wairua. Nā reira i panonihia ai te pūhoro kia āhua mā te tai, hei whakaahua i tō mātou hononga ki tērā kōrero.

     

     

    Kei te kitea mai ngā kōrero o uki i roto i ngā rangahau, ā, kei te tuitui mātou i ērā kōrero tawhito ki ngā tāera hou. Kei te rapu i te kauhanga nui o te ū ki ngā tikanga me te whai kia koi ngā mahi-

     

    Rawinia:

    Yeah. Absolutely.

     

    E mea ana koe.

    Chris:

    That’s appealing to our people-

     

    Kia rata mai te hunga mātakitaki.

    Sandra:

    To the now.

     

    Ki te hunga o nāianei.

    Chris:

    To the now, to our young ones that are out there watching. Also to our kaiwhakawā that are pretty much traditionalists in the mahi. So it's trying to navigate through this space and find what works for us as a whānau.

     

    Te hunga o nāianei, te hunga rangatahi e mātakitaki ana. Waihoki ngā kaiwhakawā, he hunga ū ki ngā tikanga. Nō reira kei te whai i tētahi ara pai mō mātou, mō te whānau.

    Sandra:

    But also knowing that when we do things, there's always a reason or a purpose behind it. We just don't do it because it looks flash, or we don't just do it just because. There's definitely a reason and purpose for doing the things, doing it our way, I guess.

     

    I runga hoki i te mōhio, he take mō ngā mahi katoa. Ehara i te mea ka karawhiua i runga i te pai o te āhua. He take mō ngā mea katoa, e hāngai ana ki a mātou.

    Rawinia:

    So, kei te haere tonu te rangahau?

     

    Nō reira kei te haere tonu te rangahau?

    Sandra:

    Definitely.

     

    Āe marika.

    Rawinia:

    You might be looking towards a part two?

     

    Me aro pea ki te wāhanga tuarua pea.

    Chris:  

    Yeah. Kore mate ēnā mahi. There always the saying that you never stop learning. You never stop because, because the knowledge base is so deep. When we started to research Muriwhenua history, we go back 800, 900 years of kōrero, and whakapapa, and events and things that happened with our different tupunas. I said, "Okay, how can we fit this all into a short performance time?" So probably, yeah, we've got more to learn, more to grow and more to share.

     

    Āe, e kore e mate ēnā mahi. E kore ngā mahi ako e mutu. He hōhonu te puna mātauranga. He 800, 900 tau te roa o ngā kōrero o ngā whakapapa o roto i te hītori o Muriwhenua, ngā kaupapa me ngā mahi a ngā tūpuna katoa. Ko tāku “Ka pēhea tā mātou whakauru i ērā kōrero katoa ki te tū poto?” He nui ngā mea hei ako, hei whanake, hei tuku anō hoki.

    Sandra:  

    Absolutely. And I guess the part that's become a little bit tricky for us is that religion has played a big part in covering or burying our tikanga for haka.

     

     

    E mea ana koe. Ko te mea uaua ko tā te whakapono huna i ngā tikanga haka o konei.

     

    Rawinia:

    Can we talk a bit more about that? Have we got that time?

     

    Kōrero mai mō tēnā? He wā e toe ana?

    Chris:  

    Yeah, I suppose for myself and for my wife, we've seen different rohe who are quite prominent in the mahi, quite strong in the mahi. And we have a look at the history of Tai Tokerau and a lot of the hāhi having strong influence over a lot of our whānau, our marae, our hapū. And so I suppose to an extent, a lot of the mahi had been eroded to a certain extent. But we are fortunate that in some pockets of Tai Tokerau it still remains strong. And so for us, I suppose we are going to have a duty to try to research and try to bring everything back in.

    As we see now, kapa haka is really popular amongst our youth, amongst all reanga. And so we're excited for the future, and as long as we guide our young ones and support them, ones like us, we can sit back and know that we've done the best job that we can to try to make sure that there's some real positive momentum going forward with the teachings of Tai Tokerau haka, Tai Tokerau waiata.

     

    He nui ngā rohe kua kitea e māua ko taku makau, he nui ā rātou mahi, he kaha ā rātou mahi. Ka titiro māua ki te hītori o Te Tai Tokerau, he nui te pānga o te hāhi ki ngā whānau, ngā marae me ngā hapū. Kua āhua rerekē ngā mahi i tērā āhua. Waimarie ana mātou, e kaha tonu ana ngā mahi i roto i ētahi wāhanga o te Tai Tokerau. Nō reira he mahi nui mā mātou te rangahau i ngā kōrero tūturu me te whakahoki mai.

     

     

     

    Kei te rata mai ngā rangatahi ki te kapa haka, ngā reanga o te wā. Hīkaka ana ki te kite i ngā mahi kei mua i te aroaro, engari me mātua tautoko mātou, tō mātou momo, i a rātou, kia tika, kia pai hoki ngā mahi, ngā haka a Te Tai Tokerau me ngā waiata a Te Tai Tokerau.

    Rawinia:

    That was a lot guys, and all the best for that rangahau. Keep sharing, keep doing what you do. Thank you so much for coming today, it's really been an honor and a privilege. We might get you back for part two. But, any last words for our rangitahi out there taking te ao haka?

     

    He nui ērā kōrero e hoa mā, kia kaha kōrua me ā kōrua rangahau. Kia kaha kōrua ki te mahi tonu i ā kōrua mahi me te tuku atu. Tēnā kōrua i ngā mahi i te rā nei, nōku te whiwhi. Me hoki mai pea kōrua mō te wāhanga tuarua. Heoi anō he kupu whakamutunga ā kōrua ki ngā rangatahi whai i te ao haka?

    Chris:  

    Just a big mihi to you all, our next gen. Keep your finger on the button when it comes to performing arts. Go hard in all your mahi. That’s it from me. Thank you all.

     

    E mihi ana ki a koutou, rangatahi mā, taiohi mā. Kia mau ki te kakau o te hoe o ēnei o ngā mahi a Rēhia, a Tāne-Rore. Kia kaha i roto i ngā mahi katoa. Koira tāku. Tēnā koutou, kia ora mai anō tātou.

    Rawinia:

    Kia ora.

    Kia ora.

    Outro:

    Interview closes and fades to black. First shot is of the ocean at sunset, cutting to the road sign for Cape Reinga and Whāngarei. Back to the Whare Rūnanga at Waitangi Treaty grounds. Back to the welcome sig for Kaitaia, back to the beach and then over to a birds eye view of the town centre. Back to a mural and then again with the shot of the sand and waves crashing. Road signs to Ahipara and the a shot of a beautifully carved walkway entrance. A shot of whānau standing in the Ngāpuhi doorway chanting “Tīhei Mauri Ora.” Back to Waitangi Treaty Grounds, then the monument of the boy and dolphin. Another birds eye view of the north, finishing with the logo that reads and of Te Tāhuhu o te Mātauranga.

    [ Accordion ]

    Te Reo Māori

    Te Reo Pākehā

    Nau mai, tau mai e taku manu takiata, taku manu takiwaka o te ao wātea. Tēnā koe e tūrama nei i te ngākau o tangata pūtake runga, pūtake raro, pūtake ira pou tangata, te hōkai-nuku, te hōkai-rangi, te hōkai i ngā ara tapuwae i a Tāne-rore.

     

     

    Tēnā tāua, Tūheimoa, i tēnei rā tā tāua matapaki i te rangi nei mō Te Ao Haka: tō wheako i Te Ao Haka, te orokohanga o tō Ao Haka. He aha pea ō awhero, ō wawata ā haere ake nei i Te Ao Haka? He aha pea hoki ētahi kupu akiaki? Koirā rawa te horopaki whānui o tā tāua kōrero i te rangi nei.

     

     

    Nā, kia whakamahuki mai ki ngā tauira o ngā kura, ko wai koe? He aha hoki te orokohanga o tō Ao Haka?

    Welcome and settle here my morning bird, my medium bird which unlocks the world.

    Thank you for illuminating the hearts of humans who originate from the heavens and earth, the human pillar who journeys about the earth and heaven, the journey which follows the footsteps of Tāne-rore.

     

    Greetings Tūheimoa, today we will discuss Te Ao Haka: your Te Ao Haka experiences and the origins of your Te Ao Haka. What are perhaps some of your Te Ao Haka aspirations and goals moving forward? What are some words of encouragement? That’s the gist of what we will be discussing today.

     

     

    Now, please explain to the students of our schools who you are. How did your Te Ao Haka journey begin?

    Ngā mihi tuatahi ki a koe i whakatau i au i tēnei rā. Ka tika, me mihi atu ki ngā tauira katoa i whai wā te ako i tēnei mea, te haka.

    Firstly, I would like to acknowledge you for welcoming me today. It is only right that I also acknowledge all the students who have chosen to pursue haka.

    Ko Tūheimoa Maruera tōku ingoa. He uri ahau nō Ngāti Ruanui, nō Ngāruahinerangi hoki, nō ngā hapū o Ngāti Tūpito me Ngāti Manu-hiakai, nō ngā marae o Pariroa me Te Aroha o Tītokowaru.

    My name is Tūheimoa Maruera. I descend from Ngāti Ruanui, and Ngāruahinerangi. I am from the subtribes of Ngāi Tūpito and Ngāti Manu-hiakai, and I am from Pariroa and Te Aroha o Tītokowaru marae.

    I tīmata taku orokohanga ki roto i Te Ao Haka, i te kōpū o tōku māmā. Ki reira i tīmata ai. I tōku whānau mai ki tēnei ao, i tuku atu ki Te Kōhanga Reo, Te Kōhanga Reo o Kautu-ki-te-rangi e noho ana ki te marae o Taiporohēnui.

    My Te Ao Haka journey originates from the time when I was still in the womb of my mother. That’s where it all began. Since my birth into this world, I was sent to kōhanga reo, to Kautu-ki-te-rangi kōhanga reo, which is situated at Taiporohēnui marae.

    Ka rua, i haere ki Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Ngāti Ruanui. I noho mō te kotahi wāhanga, kātahi hūnuku tātou ki tētahi kura auraki, ki Te Ramanui, ki roto o Te Hāwera.

    Secondly, I attended Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Ngāti Ruanui. I stayed for one term and then we moved to a mainstream school, to Te Ramanui which is in Te Hāwera.

    Ki reira i noho mō ngā tau e ono, kātahi hūnuku ki Pātea. I noho ki Te Kura o Pātea, ko tērā kapa, ko Pārara ki Te Uru

    I stayed there for six years before moving to Pātea. I attended Te Kura o Pātea, and the group called Pārara ki Te Uru.

    Pārara ki Te Uru, kia ora.

    Pārara ki Te Uru, thank you.

    Pārara ki Te Uru, te ingoa o te puna o Turi. I ngā wā o mua i roto hoki taku pāpā i roto i tērā kapa.

    Pārara ki Te Uru is the name of Turi’s pond. In yesteryears my father was also in that group.

    Nē? Koirā tonu tōna kura?

    Ka pai.

    Really? Was that his school?

    Wow.

    Āe

    Yes.

    Atu i Te Kura o Pātea, i haere ki Te Kura Takawaenga o Te Hāwera. I tū hei kaihaka mō rātou, ka mutu, ki Te Wharekura o Ngāti Ruanui, ki roto i te kapa o Te Kūreitanga. 

    Other than Pātea School, I attended Te Hāwera Intermediate. I was a performer for them at that school, furthermore I was also performer for Te Kūreitanga group at Te Wharekura o Ngāti Ruanui.

    Nā te kōtui o ngā kura Aho Matua o Taranaki: mai Te Pi’ipi’inga o Ngā Kakano mai i Rangiātea, Ngāruahinerangi me Ngāti Ruanui, koirā mō te kura. Mō ngā kapa pakeke, ko Ngāti Ruanui ki Taranaki Tū mai, Aotea Utanganui, ki ngā w’akataetae ā-motu, ā-rohe hoki. Me te karapu o Pātea.

    Due to the interlinking between the Aho Matua schools of Taranaki: From Te Pi’ipi’inga o Ngā Kākano mai i Rangiātea, Ngāruahinerangi and Ngāti Ruanui. Those are the schools. In regards to senior groups, there’s Ngāti Ruanui ki Taranaki Tū mai, Aotea Utanganui who have participated in regional and national competitions. Pātea club as well.

    Tēnā koe, tēnā koe me tēnā te orokohanga o tō Ao Haka. Ka hoki atu ki te orokohanga rā anō, arā, i te kōpū. Ko wai tō whaea? He aha i kī ai koe i tīmata Te Ao Haka i te kōpū o tō whaea?

    Thank you for giving a brief explanation regarding the inception of your Haka world. Now, let’s return back to the beginning, to the womb. Who is your mother? Why did you say that your Te Ao Haka journey originated from when you were in your mother’ womb?

    Ko Janine Maruera tōku māmā. I te wā i noho au ki tōna kōpū, i te parakatihi ia mō tētahi kapa - ko Tūtahi Manawatū pea? Tētahi o ngā kapa.

    My mother is Janine Maruera. While I was still in her womb, she was practising for one of the groups, perhaps for Tūtahi Manawatū?

    Āe, āe, mahara au, āe.

    Yes indeed, I remember.

    Engari, kāore anō ia i tū nā te mea i puta mai au ki te ao. Nā reira, kāore ia e taea te whai wā te tū engari kei reira tonu mātou.

    But she didn’t end up taking the stage because she had given birth to me. Therefore, even though she wasn’t able to perform, we were still present.

    Kia ora, kia ora. Nā, ka puta ia i tērā kapa, i whai wheako koe? E mahara ana koe ki tērā kapa? Tūtahi Manawatū?

    Thank you. Once she left that group, did you learn any new experiences? Do you remember that group Tūtahi Manawatū?

    Āe, nā te mea kei reira tonu a Te Tū Mataora

    Yes, because Te Tū Mataora is still there.

    Kia ora, koirā te kapa hou i ahu mai i Tūtahi Manawatū? Kia ora i tēnā whakapapa.

    Thank you, is that the new group which was born from Tūtahi Manawatū? Thank you for explaining that genealogy.

    Āe, āe ko rātou hoki tō mātou whānau, tō mātou kapa teina me kī, tuakana aha atu. Āe, he whānau tahi tātou katoa.

    Yes, they are also our family, let’s say our junior group, senior group or whatever. We are all one family.

    Ka pai, a, ko Te Tū Mataora te kapa, ko tēhea rohe tēnā?

    That’s good so Te Tū Mataora is the group, from which region?

    Ki Rangitāne.

    From Rangitāne.

    Ki Rangitāne, ka pai. Nā, he aha - ka hoki mai a māmā ki roto ki Taranaki, nē? Ki Aotea Utanganui? Kei te tika tēnā? Ka pai. Tēnā, korerohia mai tērā ao.

    From Rangitāne, awesome. So, your mother returned to Taranaki, right? To Aotea Utanganui? Is that correct? Great. Please, further elaborate.

    Āe.I tūtaki aku mātua ki te karapu o Pātea, ki reira rāua e tūtaki ai. Nā reira, he hōnore nui ki te hoki atu, he hōnore mōku, kia tū hei kaihaka mō rātou. Nā rātou i poipoi i tēnei, nā ngā kuia a Nanny Bib, Nanny Bub, Koro Del - rātou katoa.

    Yes, my parents met at the Pātea club. Therefore, it’s a huge privilege to be able to return there, it’s a privilege to be able to stand as a performer. They all nurtured me, all the elderly women, Nanny Bib, Nanny Bub, Koro Del - all of them.

    Nā rātou tēnei i poipoi, mei kore mō rātou, ka kore rawa au e noho ki tēnei hei kanohi mō Taranaki. Nā reira, ko tōku waimarie nō Taranaki ahau, he kaihaka nō Aotea.

    They brought me up and I’m lucky to have them. I would never have been able to be a spokesperson for Taranaki. Therefore, I am fortunate that I am from Taranaki, and that I am a performer from Aotea.

    Āna, āna. Tēnā, he aha ētahi o ngā wheako i wheakohia e koe, i a koe e pakeke mai ana i te kapa o Aotea Utanganui, oti noa tēnā kaupapa rongonui tērā tikanga, tērā waka o Pātea Māori Club?

    Right, right. Now, what are some of the experiences that you experienced while you were growing up within the Aotea Utanganui group, moreover, while you grew up within the traditions of that famous group Pātea Māori Club?

    Ko tētahi mea ko te waiata.

    One thing was singing.

    Ko te waiata.

    Singing?

    Ko te mahi waiata, ehara i te mea me noho koe ki konei, koinei te note. Kāo - me noho ki te taha o te kuia, w’akarongo, kei a koe te tikanga.

    When learning to sing, it’s not as if you have to stay on this note or that note. No, you sit with the elderly women to listen and it’s up to you.

    Ka pai. Ko wai ētahi o ōu tino tauira waiata?

    That’s great. Who are some of your favourite singing role models?

    Nanny Bib.

    Nanny Bib.

    Nē?

    Is that right?

    Nā runga i tana reo teitei. I noho au ki tōna taha, he hōnore nui rawa atu tērā nā te mea, i ēnei rā kāore anō e mahi ērā, ētehi, ētehi.

    It’s due to her soprano voice. I sat with her, and that was an honour because nowadays that tradition isn’t really followed.

    Tika tonu ō kōrero, kāore he reo reka atu i te reo o tērā o ngā kapa. Tēnā, he aha tētahi o ōu tino waiata i a koe e pakeke mai ana?

    You are absolutely correct, there’s no better voice than that of that group. Now, what are some of your favourite songs while you were growing up?

    He maha.

    There are many.

    Ngā mea o Pātea Māori Club.

    Those of Pātea Māori Club.

    ‘Poi Harakeke’.

    Poi Harakeke

    He aha te…. Kāore au i te mōhio.

    What is that song? It’s unfamiliar.

    [Ka waiata – 7:07]

    [Sings waiata]

    Koirā te whiti tuatahi.

    That’s the first verse.

    Te rerehua hoki Tūheimoa, me waiata pea mō te toenga o tēnei uiui, nē. Tēnā koe, tēnā koe i tō reo pāororo, tō reo tīorooro, iere rā i runga, tōiri, me te mea nei ko Nanny Bib tonu, nē, e puta ana i tō māngai. Ka mutu pea, Tūheimoa! Ka pai.

    Nā, mutu ana me huri te aro ki ō wheako i roto i te kura, nē? I roto i te kura. Nā, i kuraina koe i te kura auraki, te kura aunoa. Ko wai ō kaiako i roto i te kura aunoa?

    That’s beautiful Tūheimoa. I think that you should sing that for the remainder of the interview, aye? Thank you, thank you for the resounding voice, your high-pitched voice, soprano voice, and it’s as if it’s Nanny Bib who is singing. Awesome, Tūheimoa! Awesome.

    Now, let’s turn to focus on your experiences while you were at school, okay? Now at school, you attended a mainstream school. Who were your teachers at mainstream school?

    Ko ōku kaiako kapa haka, ko ōku mātua nā te mea i reira au. Koirā te take i noho rāua hei kaiako mō tērā kura. Ia te wā i nuku au, i nuku rāua hoki, nā reira, ki Te Ramanui, ki Pātea, ki Te Hāwera tae noa ki Te Kūreitanga.

    My kapa haka tutors were my parents because I was there. That’s the reason that they both remained as teachers for that school. Everytime that I moved, they also moved. From Te Ramanui, to Pātea, to Te Hāwera all the way to Te Kūreitanga.

    I reira taku pāpā e tangi ana i te rakuraku, engari i reira a māmā hei noho hei kaiwhakawā. He uaua tērā nā te mea he maha ō rāua wheako me whai e au. He taumaha anō hoki engari i wepua mō te hemo tonu atu. Ko te mea nui i mataara, i noho ki reira.

    My father was there playing the guitar, but my mother was always there to critique. That was difficult at times because they both had a lot of experience that I had to follow. It was also demanding because we were thrashed. But the main thing is that we were alert and remained there.

    Ko ō mātua ō kaiako i roto i te kura aunoa me tō whāki mai, āe, he uaua i ētahi wā, nē, kaha wepua. Engari, he aha pea ētahi o ō rautaki i āhei ai koe te tū maia, te tū pakari tonu ki te whakaputa i tō rerehua, i tō reo, i ngā waiata, i ngā ringa. He aha ō rautaki?

    Your parents were your teachers at mainstream school, and you mentioned that yes, it was difficult at times right, because you were thrashed. But what were perhaps some of the strategies that you used to stand confidently and strong in order to display your beauty, voice, song and actions? What were your strategies?

    Tuatahi, whakarongo.

    First and foremost, to listen.

    Ka pai.

    Right.

    He w’akarongo ki ōku mātua engari he mea tino rerekē rawa atu. Mēnā i te noho ōku mātua ki tēnei taha, ka noho au ki tērā atu taha. Ka huna, ka huna au mai i ōku mātua, engari i pai nā te mea te nuinga o ngā tamariki, koia tā rāua tamāhine, ka tū ia ki mua. Ehara i te mea he pai tērā ki au, kei te mahi tonu au, kei te puku kaha au i roto i ēnei mahi. Āe, koirā.

    To listen to your parents but it was also quite different. If my parents were sitting on this side, I would sit on the other side. I would hide away from my parents. But it was okay because the majority of the children were their daughters, they would stand in front. It wasn’t as if I took a liking to it, but I still did the work and I worked hard. That’s it.

    Nō reira, i kaha whakatūngia koe hei kaitātaki, hei tuakana i whakatuakanahia koe i roto i ērā āhuatanga, nā māmā me pāpā koe i pērā ai engari he pai tonu tērā nē?

    Therefore, were you put forward as a leader? As a senior performer? Were you put into a senior role within kapa haka? Was it like that because of your parents? Did you like that?

    Āe

    Yes.

    Āe, ka pai. Nā, he aha pea ētahi o ngā wheako, ngā waiaro pea i wheakohia e koe i ērā atu tangata, i ērā atu o ō hoa? He aha pea ō rātou waiaro ki a koe i roto i ērā horopaki mahi?

    Right. What were perhaps some of the experiences and attitudes that you experienced from others? From your friends? Within this context, what was their attitude towards you like?

    Ētehi i rawe, i tū ki tōku taha ki te mahi tonu. Engari, ētehi, āe, kāore i te pai ki au. Engari, ki ōku nei whakaaro, i kite rātou i te mahi tonu au.

    Some were really good and stood beside me to carry on. But others, they weren’t so good. But I believe that they still observed doing the work.

    I te pukumahi au nā reira i pukumahi rātou. Koirā te mea nui mōku ki roto i Te Ao Haka, kia pukumahi i roto i ngā mea katoa: te reo waiata, ngā mahi ā-ringa. Ahakoa ka kī mai te kaiako 50%, me 100% i ngā wā katoa. Koirā mōku, i ngā mahi ā-kanohi, ērā hoki, wairua, te tinana, ngā taha katoa o te ao kapa me tukua ki taumata kē.

    I worked hard, and so did they. That’s the main thing in Te Ao Haka. To work hard in everything that you do: the language, the singing, the actions. Regardless of if the tutor says 50%, you should give it 100% all the time. That’s what I think, from your facials, right down to the ethos, the body language, and all aspects of kapa haka, you should go beyond.

    Ka pai, karawhiua katoatia 150%. Ka pai.

    Awesome, give it your all 150%.

    150%.

    150%.

    Ka pai. Tēnā koe i ērā rautaki, oti noa, i ērā momo tauira katoa nei, hei whāngai, hei tauira pea ki ō hoa e whanake mai ana i tēnei ao. Nā, ka whanake ake koe ki ngā kura auraki, ka hoki koe ki roto ki te kura kaupapa. He aha ētahi o ngā tikanga i rerekē pea ai te kura aunoa, ki ngā mahi o roto i te kura kaupapa Māori?

    Great. Thank you for sharing those strategies, more over thank you for sharing those examples with your friends who are coming through. Now, once you went to mainstream schools, did you ever return to kura kaupapa? What perhaps are some of the traditions which are different in mainstream and kura kaupapa Māori?

    Ko tētahi mea nui rawa atu, engari he rawe mōku, ko te reo Māori. I reo Māori te katoa o ngā w’akaharatau - i rawe tērā ki au. Me ngā waiata, me ngā kaupapa o ia o ngā waiata, mēnā ko Parihaka, ko te Pāhuatanga, te reo Māori, te Aho Matua, te raukura. Ērā mea katoa, i rawe ērā kaupapa ki au.

    One of the major differences is the Māori language which I like. All practices were conducted in the Māori language, and I really liked that. I also took a liking to the songs and the themes of each song. For instance, if it was Parihaka, the confiscation, the Māori language, Te Aho Matua, the sacred emblem. I love all those themes.

    Me te kōrero i te reo Māori ki ia o ngā w’akaharatau i pakeke ake tōku reo, ehara i te mea I roto i te akomanga noa iho, ki waho. I maumahara au ki tō tātou tū tuatahi, ko tō tātou poi ko “Te Rā o Māehe”. Koirā te wā tuatahi kua rangona au i tērā waiata me taku tangi nā te mea, i whakaaro “he ai kāore au i ako i tēnei i mua”. 

    And the fact that we spoke Māori at each practice helped to develop my language. It wasn’t just in the classroom, but outside as well. I remember our first performance; it was our poi “Te Rā o Māehe”. That was the first time that I had heard that song, and I cried because I thought to myself, “why had I not learnt this song earlier”.

    Engari, i waimarie nā te mea i ako ki reira, ki raro i te maru o Whaea Ngāpera. Nā reira, i pai tērā ahakoa i rerekē ki ngā kapa o Aotea ko tātou tērā, ko Te Kūreitanga tērā, ko Te Kāhui Maunga - koirā te mea pai rawa atu ki au.

    But I was fortunate that I learnt it there, under the guidance of Whaea Ngāpera. Therefore, it was alright despite being different to those groups of Aotea, that was us, Te Kūreitanga, Te Kāhui Maunga - that was the most enjoyable part to me.

    Ka pai. Tēnā, he aha ētahi atu o ngā mahi, i tua atu o ngā akoranga i rongo i rō kopa, ka kuhu atu koe ki te takiwā o kapa haka, engari kia pakari ai koe i roto i ngā mahi kapa haka, he aha ētahi atu anō?

     

    I te mea, e mōhio ana au he kura parore haere tō kura, ēnei kura Aho Matua. He aha ētahi atu o ngā kaupapa, ngā momo huihuinga o Taranaki i whakapakari tō māramatanga ki ngā mea i te hakaina e koe?

    Great. What else did you do? Other than the lessons learnt within your own house, once you enter the realm of kapa haka, you mature in kapa haka, but is there anything else?

     

     

     

    Because I know that your school is an Aho Matua school that travels around. What are some of the events and occasions in Taranaki that you attended which helped to give you understanding to the haka which you performed?

    I te tau 2018 i tīpako tētahi kaiako i au kia haere ki Te Arawa mō tētahi wānanga a Te Matatini mō ngā rangatahi. I noho ki reira mō te kotahi wiki. Ki reira, i noho ki te taha o ngā kaihaka o te kura, me te whakarongo ki a rātou me te rerekētanga a te mita, te takahi, te aha atu, aha atu.

    In 2018, one of the teachers chose me to attend a Te Matatini symposium in Te Arawa for teenagers. We stayed there for one week. While there, we intermingled with performers of the school, listening to them, the different dialects, the stamping of the foot and many other things.

    Te reo, ngā momo reo kei roto i a tātou, ngā momo kaupapa ka kōrero engari, i rawe nā te mea i whakarongo ki tangata rerekē ki roto i Te Ao Haka. Tō tātou iho pumanawa pērā i a Hera

    The language, the type of language that they used, the variety of themes that were discussed, but it was awesome because we were able to listen to different people within the realm of Te Ao Haka. Our kapa haka idol Hera, was also one.

    Te Kurapa?

    Te Kurapa?

    Āe mai i Muriwhenua

    Yes, from Muriwhenua.

    He aha tāna? He aha tētahi o āna pitopito kōrero?

    What did she have to say? What’s one thing that she spoke about?

    Ko te mea nui ko tāna tū mōna, nā te mea ki te uru atu ia ki roto i tētahi rūma ka tiro, nā tōna ātaahua anō hoki mō tōna mātauranga ki roto i Te Ao Haka. Ia te rā ko tētahi tangata rerekē pērā i a Wetini Mitai-Ngātai, i rawe, i rawe āna kōrero. 

    The main thing was standing for herself. When she enters the room, due to her beauty she catches your attention, and also her knowledge of Te Ao Haka. Every day there was a different speaker like Wetini Mitai-Ngātai, he was excellent, his presentation was awesome.

    Nā reira, i hoki atu ki te kura me te hora i ēnei mātauranga kia pai ake tā mātou mātauranga i roto i Te Ao Haka, ehara mōku anake. Koirā te mea pai rawa atu ki au hoki.

    Therefore, I returned to school to share what I had learnt so that our knowledge of Te Ao Haka would improve, it wasn’t for me to keep it to myself. That was one of the positives as well.

    Ka pai, rawe tērā tauira me te mea he kaupapa kia whakamahia a Te Matatini mō te wheako i whai i a koutou. Ko wai ētahi atu o ō hoa i haere i tō taha?

    That’s good, these examples are awesome, and it’s only right that we acknowledge Te Matatini for this experience that you were a part of. Who were some of your friends who attended alongside yourself?

    Ko Amokura Maruera ētahi, ko wai atu? Te Huikau, ko Bazz mai i te kapa o Raukura - nō kapa rerekē tātou katoa. Wātene nō Ngā Mokopuna, Neis nō tētahi atu kura. 

    Amokura Maruera was one, who else? Te Huikau, Bazz from Raukura - everyone was all from different groups. Wātene from Ngā Mokopuna, and Neis from another school.

    Engari nā te kotui i a tātou katoa i mōhio tātou e ngākaunui ana tēnei mea te kapa haka, koirā noa iho, koirā te take kei konei tātou. Ētahi nō Wanganui, tō tātou kura tuakana a Tupoho, a Kokohuia hoki i reira hoki rātou mō tēnei kaupapa e manakonui ana.

    But it was due to connecting us all knowing that we were all passionate about kapa haka, that was all, that’s the reason that we attended. There were some from Wananganui, from our senior school of Tupoho, there were also some from Kokohuia who also had a desire for this occasion.

    Ka rawe. Nā, hoki mai ki te kāinga: he aha ētahi o ngā kaupapa o te kāinga e whakaihiihi ana i a koe i te wā ka tū koe ki te waiata pena i a “Te Rā o Māehe”. He aha tētahi kaupapa i whai māramatanga ai koe ki te horopaki o tērā waiata?

    Awesome. Now let’s return back here to home: What are some of the events here at home which ignite you when you stand to perform, for example “Te Rā o Māehe”. What are some events or occasions which help you to understand the context of that song?

    Ko te tū o Ngāti Ruanui ki Taranaki Tū Mai. I tū mō te waiata “Kāore te Pō.”

    It was when Ngāti Ruanui ki Taranaki Tū mai performed. They performed “Kāore te Pō”.

    Āe

    Yes.

    I rawe nā te mea he rerekē - kāore anō kua rangona i tērā engari i rawe te whakapuaki i ngā kōrero. Āe, ki te tangi, aha atu, engari te whakapuaki o kare ā-roto. Anō hoki ko tētahi waiata, ko te waiata tira “He Kororia”. 

    I really enjoyed it because it was different - I had never heard that song before but the delivery of the song was really good. Yes, crying and so on, but expressing those feelings. In addition to this, the choral “He Korōria”. 

    Nā, reira he hononga o Ruaputahanga ki a Turongo, tō tātou hononga ki roto i a Waikato. He rawe ērā kōrero ki au: te hononga, te whakapapa. Ko te mahi kapa haka tētahi mea e taea ana te mārama mōku i roto i ngā waiata, i ngā mōteatea, i ngā haka koirā te mea nui.

    Now, Ruaputahanga is connected to Tūrongo, our connection to Waikato. I really like those oral histories, the connections, the genealogy. Kapa haka is a vehicle that helps me find understanding within songs, traditional chants, and haka. That is the main thing.

    Ka pai, tēnā koe i tēnā whakamārama. Nā, kua huri te ihu o tō tāua waka kōrero ināianei ki tō ao whakataetae. I tīmata te whakataetae - pēhea tō pakeke i a koe ka tīmata ki te whakataetae i Te Ao Haka?

    That’s awesome, thank you for that explanation. Now, let’s focus more on competition. How old were you when you first started competing in Te Ao Haka?

    I Te Ao Haka – e 9 pea? Ki Te Ramanui mō te Tātarakihi

    In Te Ao Haka? Maybe 9? At Te Ramanui for Tātarakihi.

    Tatarakihi, he aha rā tēnei kaupapa, a Tātarakihi?

    Tātarakihi, what is that event, Tātarakihi?

    Ko te whakataetae mō ngā tamariki o Taranaki, te whakataetae ā-rohe. I rawe ērā nā te mea i harikoa. Ehara i te mea ko te whakataetae te mea nui.

    This is a regional competition for children of Taranaki. Those were awesome because it was a happy time. It’s not as if competing was the overall goal.

    Āe, āe, ehara i te mea he whakataetae i te wā tuatahi, maumahara au ki te mea tuatahi i te Bowl of Brooklyn’s. Wareware au ki taku pakeke engari, ehara i te mea he whakataetae i tēnā wā. 

     

    Nā, ka whanake ake koe i roto i te Tātarakihi, he aha te whakataetae ka whai ake i tērā o ngā whakataetae i Taranaki nei?

    Yes indeed, it’s not as if competition comes first, I still remember my first competition at the Bowl of Brooklyn’s. I forget how old I was, and it may not have been a competition at that time. 

     

     

    Now, as you developed within Tātarakihi, what competition within Taranaki succeeded that?

    Mō Aotea Utanganui,

    For Aotea Utanganui.

    He mea motuhake kei reira.

    It was one specific to the area.

    Tekau mā whā taku pakeke i tū ki roto o Wanganui.

    I was 14 when I performed at Wanganui.

    Arohamai, mō Aotea Utanganui kapa tuakana? Ā, 14 tō pakeke i roto i ngā whakataetae o Aotea?

    Forgive me, for Aotea Utanganui senior group? Were you 14 when you competed at Aotea regionals?

    Āe

    Yes.

    Ka pai. 14? Wow! Pēhea i tētahi whakataetae tuakana he aha ngā kare a roto i roto I a koe i tērā wā?

    Awesome. 14? Wow! Considering that it was a senior competition, how were your feelings at that time?

    I mataku rawa atu.

    I was completely terrified.

    He aha i mataku ai koe?

    Why were you terrified?

    Nā te mea ko ōku mātua ngā kaiako, anō hoki he kaihaka hou. I au e tamariki ana, ko au tērā e oma ana i waenga i ngā rārangi, e oma ana ki te taha o ōku kaihanga, aha atu. Engari, koirā taku tau tuatahi hei kaihaka. I uaua, i pukuriri ētahi wā nā te mea i whakaaro au ka kore rawa au e whai tūnga

    Because my parents were the tutors, and I was also a new performer. When I was younger, that was me running around in between the lines, running around with my cousins and whatnot. But that was my first time standing as a performer. It was difficult and frustrating at times because I thought that I wouldn’t make the cut.

    He aha i whakaaro ai koe i tēnā momo whakaaro?

    Why would you think like that?

    Kia pono aku kōrero, i te mangere te tuatahi, i mangere nā te mea i whakaaro koinei aku mātua, ka tuku au ki mua mō ngā noho e rua. Atu i tērā, i tīni aku whakaaro kia pukumahi, nā te mea kei te pukumahi te katoa. Kei te waiata rātou mōku, kia kaua e pērā, me waiata rātou mō rātou anake. Me waiata au, mō au. Koirā ngā mahi.

    I must be honest, firstly being lazy. I was lazy because those were my parents, they sent me to the front for two of the practices. From there, I then changed my thought process to be hard working, because everyone else was working hard. They are singing for me, and it shouldn’t be like that. They should sing for themselves, and me for myself. That’s the job.

    Ka pai. Nō reira, i tīmata ngā whakaaro, i pakeke ake ngā w’akaaro i taua wā i te mea he tauira i roto i tērā kapa hei whāinga mōu. Ko wai ētahi o ōu tino tauira? Āe, kua kōrerohia a Nan Bib mō te taha ki te waiata. Ko wai pea ētahi o ō tauira kaihaka?

    Okay. So, the thoughts started to mature at that time because there was an example set within the group that you wanted to achieve for yourself? Who were your idols? Yes, you previously mentioned Nan Bib for singing. Who are perhaps some of your performer idols?

    Ki roto o Aotea Utanganui, ko Aunty Sharon. Āe, he tangata noho ki muri engari ki te mōhio ia ki ōna mahi, ka wepua, ka kī ki te kapa “koinei taku tūnga - ki te pirangi koe i tēnei me whawhai”.

    Within Aotea Utanganui, there’s Aunty Sharon. She is the type of person who will sit at the back, but she knows her stuff, she will trash everyone and say to the group, “this is my spot - if you want it then you’ll have to battle me for it”.

    Ka pai, ka pai. Nā, he aha ētahi o ō tino whakataetae i tae atu koe i tō Aotea Utanganui taha?

    Amazing. Now what are some of your favourite competitions that you have attended alongside Aotea Utanganui?

    Ko te tū ki Rātana.

    Our stand at Rātana.

    Ko te tū ki Rātana. He tū ki ngā whakataetae ā-rohe tēnā? Ka pai, i nā tata tonu nei tēnā nē?

    Your performance at Rātana. Was that the regional performance? That was just held recently, right?

    Āe, āe. I rawe tērā.

    Yes indeed, that was awesome.

    He aha i rawe ai?

    Why was it awesome?

    Nā te mea i pakeke aku whakaaro, i pakeke taku tū. Ki te tiro au ki tērā mea ki Wanganui, ki te taha o tēnei mea ki Rātana, he rerekē rawa atu. He tangata rerekē, he tangata e mōhio ana ki ngā kaupapa o ngā waiata - ehara i te mea kei te waiata mō te waiata noa iho. He kaupapa - koirā te mea e whakapuaki nei e au.

    Because my thoughts and performance have matured. If I were to look back at that performance at Wanganui and compare them both, they are totally different. They are different people. There’s a person who knows what they are singing about, and not just singing for the sake of singing. That’s what I’m trying to say.

    Ka pai. He aha ētahi o ngā kaupapa i tērā o ngā tū? Kāore e kore he kaupapa nui i te mea kua tae atu ki Rātana.

    Okay. What were some of the themes of that performance? There’s no doubt that there were some major topics of discussion which were taken to Rātana.

    Ko te poi tētahi mea tino rerekē, e kōrero ana mō te maina papa moana.

    The poi was one thing which was different, it spoke about mining out at sea.

    I roto o Pātea?

    At Pātea?

    Āe, i roto o Pātea. He kaupapa hōhonu engari i rawe te tuku atu ki te marea. Koinei tā mātou raru, haere mai ki te tautoko, ka whawhai tonu mō te whenua, mō te moana. Nā te moana tātou i whāngai, me whāngai tātou i te moana.

    Yes, within Pātea. It was quite an in-depth topic but it was wonderful how the message was conveyed to the multitudes. That’s one of our problems, we come to support, we continue to fight for the land and ocean. It is the ocean which provides us with sustenance, so it’s only right that we reciprocate that.

    Koirā te mea… te kaupapa o te waiata. Anō hoki, ko ngā karakia pēnei i a ‘Hiki’, i a ‘Kī mai’, i uru atu ki roto i tēnei waiata.

    That was it, the theme of the song. There was also the karakia like ‘Hiki’ and ‘Kī mai’ which were used within the song.

    Ka pai. He aha te take i whakaurua ērā waiata, ērā karakia, ērā poi atua ki roto ki tērā o ngā waiata?

    That’s good. What was the reason behind using those karakia within the song, using those poi atua within that song?

    Nā te mea he taonga nui ērā, he taonga nui hoki te moana ki a tātou, ki Pātea. Ko te moana ko tātou. Ko ēnei poi atua, ēnei poi karakia he taonga anō hoki. Anō hoki, he rerekē ki te nuinga o tātou i whakaaro, tērā pea, ki te kotui i ēnei, ka tuku ki tētahi whakataetae, ka whakarongo.

    Because those are great treasures, the ocean is also a great treasure to us of Pātea. We are one with the ocean. These poi atua, these poi karakia are also treasures. It’s different from everyone else, we were thinking that if we intertwine these and perform at a competition, everyone will be able to hear.

    Āna, me te aha ko te horopaki tonu o ērā karakia, he horopaki moana, nē?

    Right, and as a result the context of those karakia are related to the ocean, right?

    Āe

    Yes.

    He horopaki waka nō reira e tino hāngai ana ki tērā kaupapa. Ka pai, ka koke atu, ka hoki ki tērā atu taha whakataetae ōu i roto i te kura tuarua. He aha ētahi o ngā wheako i wheakohia? He aha ētahi o ngā whakataetae i tae atu koutou i Te Kūreitanga?

    The context is the canoe therefore it relates to that theme. Great, now let’s move forward, let’s return to that other side of yours, competing at secondary school. What are some experiences? What competitions did Te Kūreitanga make it to?

    I au i roto i Te Kūreitanga, i tū ki Wanganui mō tētahi whakataetae ā-rohe, ki te whakataetae ā-motu ki Te Papaioea. Ka mutu, ko taku tūnga whakamutunga ki Ōpunake.

    While I was at Te Kūreitanga, we stood at a regional competition which was held in Wanganui and a national competition held in Palmerston North. Furthermore, that was my final performance in Ōpunake.

    Ki Ōpunake.

    In Ōpunake.

    Mō tētahi whakataetae ā-rohe. Mō ngā tau e rua i noho au, i tū au hei kaitātaki ki te taha o Tatiana rāua ko Tika, me tō tātou hononga i rawe te tū. I te mōhio kei konei au mō rāua, i reira hoki rāua mōku. Ki te pērā, ka rawe ngā mea katoa.

    For a regional competition. For the duration of the two years while I was there, I was also the leader alongside Tatiana and Tika. And our connection, the performance was awesome. We knew that I was there to back them both up and vice versa. And if it’s like that, then everything will be amazing.

    He aha te take e rua ngā kaitātaki wahine?

    What was the reason behind having two female leaders?

    Kāore au i te tino mōhio, engari mōku i pai nā te mea i taurite i ngā mea kia kaua e taumaha ki runga i te kotahi tangata. Ahakoa ko Tika anake, i reira hoki māua, māua ko Tatiana.

    I don’t really know, but it was good for me because everything was balanced, and the burden wasn’t left to just one person to carry. Even though Tika was the only male leader, Tatiana and I were both there to support him.

    Ka pai, tokotoru. Tino pakari tonu koutou, mahara ana ki tēnā wā. Nō reira, i Te Papaioea, koirā tā koutou… He aha te ingoa o taua whakataetae i Te Papaioea?

    Great, three leaders. You are all quite strong, I still remember that performance. Now, this was in Palmerston North, what was the name of the competition in Palmerston North?

    He Puapua.

    He Puapua.

    He Puapua, he haka kua wareware i au.

    He Puapua, a haka, I’ve forgotten.

    Me au hoki.

    Me as well.

    Nā, he aha te kaupapa o tō koutou tū i tērā tau?

    Now what was the main theme of your performance that year?

    Ko Taranaki, Taranaki te take o tō mātou tū. Ko te waiata tira e kōrero ana mō ngā kōrero o Parihaka.

    It was Taranaki, Taranaki was the backbone of our performance. The choral spoke about the oral histories of Parihaka.

    He aha rawa? He maha ngā kōrero mō Parihaka. He aha te aronga matua?

    What exactly? There are many oral histories regarding Parihaka. What was the main focus?

    ‘Ko taku raukura, he manawanui ki te ao’.

    ‘My sacred emblem is an assurance to the world’.

    Ka pai

    Great.

    ‘He rau rengarenga nō roto o te raukura’. Āe, ko te whakaeke ko tō mātou hononga ki Te Papaioea, ki Rangitane, ki ngā uri o Whātonga.

    ‘A herb of healing from the sacred emblem’. Yes, our entrance was our connection to Palmerston North, to Rangitāne, to the descendants of Whātonga.

    Ka pai, ko wai te waka?

    Awesome, which waka?

    Kurahaupo

    Kurahaupō.

    Ka pai, koirā hoki te painga, nē? Ahakoa ko Aotea, nō Aotea ngā kura o Ngāti Ruanui, o Ngā Rua’ine, nā te piripiri ki ngā kura o te raki, ka whanui ake te titiro ki Taranaki whānui, ka ako i ērā kura katoa. 

     

     

    Ka pai, he aha rā te mōteatea? Te waiata tawhito.

    Sorry, repeat that again. No, it’s ok, that’s one of the advantages, right? Regardless of if it’s Aotea, the schools Ngāti Ruanui, Ngā Rua’ine are from Aotea, but due to working with schools in the north and the wider region of Taranaki, all the schools learn that.

     

    Ok, what was the traditional chant?

    ‘He poi rokiroki.’

    ‘He poi rokiroki’.

    Tēnā, he aha te ‘Poi rokiroki’?

    Now what is ‘Poi rokiroki’.

    He poi karakia me kī, he poi e kōrero ana mōu.

     

    Āe, ko koe tērā e tuku ana i ngā kōrero engari ka waiho mā te poi e whakapuaki i ngā kare ā-roto

    Let’s say that it is a karakia, it is a poi that speaks about yourself.

     

    Yes, it is you who is giving the oral story but it is left up to your poi to exhibit the emotions.

    Tika rawa atu. Ka pai, nā, he aha hoki te horopaki, he aha rawa rānei te karere i te tukuna i roto i tērā o ngā poi rokiroki?

    That is absolutely correct. Great, now what exactly was the context of the message that was portrayed in the poi rokiroki?

    Ko Te Puapua me ngā pakanga, ētahi o Waitara me te manu

    Te Puapua and the battles, those in Waitara And the bird.

    Me te manu

    And the bird.

    Koirā taku tino ko te manu

    The bird was my favourite.

    Ka pai, ka pai – ‘ko taku poi, he manu’, nē? Koirā hoki tētahi whakamāramatanga pea ki ā tātou hoa nē, ko tō tātou poi e poi nei tātou he momo manu tuku karere.

    Right, right - ‘my poi is a bird’, right?

    That’s one of the explanations to our friends, that our poi is likened to that of a bird which carries a message.

    Āe

    Yes.

    Ka pai, pai tēnā. Nā, he aha rā te waiata ā-ringa?

    Awesome. Now what about the action song?

    E kōrero ana mō ngā amo taketake o te maunga.

    It speaks about the amo taketake of the mountain. 

    Ka pai, he aha te amo taketake?

    Ok, what is that the amo taketake?

    Pēnei i ngā tangata a Huirangi, Koro Huirangi Waikerepuru, he huia e tuku ana ki te rangi mō tōna mahi pukumahi mō te reo. Koirā ētahi. E kōrero ana mō Rauru me te whiti tuatahi, ka waiata ngā tama. 

    Those leaders such as Huirangi, Koro Huirangi Waikerepuru, the noble who was sent to the heavens, and his determination to revive the language. That’s one. It talks about Rauru and the first verse is sung by the boys.

    Nā te mea ko te waiata e kōrero ana mō ngā tāne, nā reira ka waiho tērā taha ki a rātou. I whāngai i te reo kia taea e tātou ki te uru atu ki ngā kura kaupapa Māori, ki te whare wānanga mō te reo, aha atu rānei.

    Because the song speaks about the male, so that part of the song was left up to them. The language was fought for so that we may be able to attend kura kaupapa Māori, the Māori language in universities and so forth.

    Ka pai. Nō reira, ko tēnei kupu te amo taketake, he kupu e hāngai noa ana ki ngā Tane?

    Awesome. So, this work amo taketake, does it only relate to make?

    Kāo

    No.

    Kao, ngā tāne me ngā wāhine?

    No, both male and female?

    Āe

    Yes.

    Ka pai, ka pai. He kupu whakarite i te rangatira?

    Great, so it’s a metaphor for an esteemed leader?

    Āe, āe

    Yes.

    Nā, kōrerohia te poi.

    Now, let’s talk about the poi.

    Āe, ko te poi te mea rawe rawa atu mōku. Anō hoki he kōrero mō te hononga ki roto o Waikato, āe.

    Well, the poi is my favourite item. It also talks about our connection to Waikato, yes.

    Āe, ko Tāwhiao pea te kaupapa?

    Okay, was Tāwhiao perhaps the theme?

    Āe, Kīngi Tāwhiao. 

     

    Yes, Kīngi Tāwhiao. 

    Ko Kīngi Tāwhiao, he aha tētahi o ngā hononga matua i akona e koe i roto i tērā waiata?

    Kīngi Tāwhiao, what are one of the main connections that you learnt within that song?

    Tana hikoi mai ki Parihaka, i haere mai ia hei Matutaera, i hoki atu hei Tāwhiao.

    His march to Parihaka, he arrived as Matutaera and returned as Tāwhiao.

    Tēnā koe, tēnā koe i tēnā. Nā, ko ngā kiwei tonu tērā o te kete, purihia e Waikato, e Taranaki. Ka mutu pea! Nā, ko te haka, he aha te haka?

    Thank you for that. Now those are the handles of the basket which are held each by Waikato and Taranaki. Amazing! Now the haka, what was the haka?

    Taranaki Matarau

    Taranaki Matarau.

    Taranaki Matarau, he aha…he koke kōrero rānei tēnā, a Taranaki Matarau?

    Taranaki Matarau, what is that? Is it discussions around moving forward? Is that what isTaranaki Matarau about?

    Āe, he kōrero mō ngā rangatahi. Ka kī atu, “hei aha te kapa haka, he moumou tāima, hei aha te reo, me whiua atu ērā.” Kia huri ki ngā rangatahi, ehara i te mea kei te pērā ko te kapa haka tētahi mea nui rawa atu mō tātou. Ko tātou te iwi Māori, te kapa haka. Kei roto ngā waiata, ngā kōrero, ngā whakapapa, aha atu.

    Yes, it talks about the youth. It’s often said, “nevermind kapa haka, it’s a waste of time, forget about the language, forget about it all”. And we turn to the youth, it’s not as if it’s like that. Kapa haka is a major part of our world. Our Māori people, we are kapa haka. Within it are the songs, oral histories, genealogy and many more.

    Ngā whakataukī, ngā kīwaha, e taea te puta ki te ao, kia tiro atu te ao ki Aotearoa mō ngā mahi kapa haka. He pai ake i ētahi mea raruraru rawa atu.

    The proverbs and the idioms, they can be released to the world, so that the world can see New Zealand in terms of kapa haka. And that’s better than some of the problems.

    Koia, he oranga o roto, nē? He rongoā o roto o tēnei ao, Te Ao Haka, oti noa ngā tikanga katoa nē? Ka pai, ka whakakōpanihia ki te whakawātea, he aha tēnā?

    Exactly, there’s sustenance within kapa haka aye? There is healing with this world of Te Ao Haka, furthermore there are traditions as well. Well, we will conclude our conversation by looking at the exit, what exactly is that?

    E kōrero ana mō te hokinga atu ki te kāinga. E hoki ana ki Parihaka, ki Ngāti Ruanui, ki Ngāruahine, me Ngā Rauru kia huri tō tātou waka Aho Matua ki Taranaki, ā, hoki ki te kāinga.

    It speaks of returning home. Returning to Parihaka, to Ngāti Ruanui, to Ngāruahine and Ngā Rauru. Our Aho Matua canoe turns to Taranaki, to return home.

    Ka pai, ka pai. Nā, ki ō whakaaro, he aha pea ētahi o ngā rerekētanga, ngā motuhaketanga rānei, o roto i te tū o Taranaki?

    How awesome. Now, in your opinion what are some of the differences and uniqueness in terms of the Taranaki stance?

    Ko tō mātou kaupapa ētahi mea, ko te poi rokiroki kāore anō tētahi kapa i mahi i tērā. Ko tō mātou takahi, te hīkeikei - he tino ātaahua tērā ki au. Kei te mirimiri i a Papatuanuku. Ehara i te mea, kei te takahi ki runga i a ia, me te raukura.

    Our theme is one, groups haven’t performed a poi rokiroki as well. The way that we stamp the foot, known as the hīkeikei - it’s quite beautiful to me. We are caressing Papatuānuku. It’s not as if we are stomping on her, and the sacred emblem.

    Ka pai, ka pai. Tēnā, he aha ō mohiotanga mō te raukura?

    That’s great. Now, what knowledge do you have in regard to the sacred emblem?

    Mōku, he tohu i te maungārongo, he tohu i te rongomau ki roto i au. Ahakoa kāore e taea te rongo i te reo ihirangaranga o te raukura, kei te rongo i te rongomau.

    For me it represents peace, it resembles harmony within myself. Even though you can’t hear the vibrations of the sacred emblem, you can feel the harmony.

    Koia, koia. Nō reira, i roto i te mau i te raukura, me te mea nei he rerenga kētanga rānei kua kite rānei koe i roto i ō iwi me tō wheako i roto o Parihaka, he rerekē rānei te mau i te raukura?

    That’s exactly right. So, while holding the sacred emblem, or if you have seen something different within your iwi and your experience within Parihaka, is there a difference in terms of holding the sacred emblem?

    Āe, kei te rapu tonu au i ērā whakamārama, engari ka mau tētahi ki te taha matau, ki te taha mauī, ki waenga. He rerekē ki te tonga, ki te raki, ki te aha atu, kei te rapu tonu au i ērā kōrero.

    Yes, I’m still in search of that meaning, but you were one on the right, left and in the middle. It’s different in the south, north and other places. But I am still searching for those oral histories.

    Ka pai, ka pai, tēnā koe me he rapu tonu tō ake raukura nē titi ana i roto i a koe, ka pai. Kia mārama pūrangiaho tēnā ki te katoa. Ka mutu pea! 

     

    Nā, i kōrero koe mō tēnei mea te poi, nē? He aha, ki ō whakaaro, tētahi o ngā tino kura, ngā tino mārama mātauranga rānei kua heke ki a koe i roto i tō mau i tō poi manu?

    Thank you, once you find our own sacred emblem, fasten it within yourself okay. So that that is clear to everyone. Awesome! 

     

     

    Now you previously spoke about the poi, right? In your opinion, what are some of the hidden gems or comprehensible knowledge that has been passed down to you while holding onto your poi manu?

    Ko taku poi manu, he manawataki o tōku ao. Ki te pai te rere, ka pai hoki ahau; ki te ngū, kua raru tētahi mea. Kei te tihi o whakaaro te poi, i ngā wā katoa, nā te mea he tohu i te kāinga hoki. Ahakoa ka noho au ki tētahi wāhi rerekē, ka patua tonu i te poi hei reo mōku, anō hoki hei reo mō aku tūpuna.

    My poi manu, is the rhythm of my world. If it soars with ease, I will also be at ease; if it is silent, then something is wrong. The poi is at the seat of my thoughts all the time, because it also represents the home. Regardless of where I am staying, I still use the poi to voice my thoughts and those of our ancestors.

    Koia pū, koia pū. Nā, he kapa e piri atu ana koe ki tētahi kapa poi manu? Tētahi kapa poi atua rānei.

    Precisely. Now is there a poi manu group or poi atua group that you have joined?

    Kāore anō, kāo. Engari, ka tukuna i te poi ki ngā tangihanga

    No, not yet. But the poi is in flight at funerals.

    Ka pai. Nō reira, he tikanga ā-iwi kē, ā-hapū rānei?

    Right, so that’s a tribal or sub-tribe tradition?

    Āe

    Yes.

    Ka pai. Tēnā, he aha te tikanga o te taki i te poi i te uhunga, i te tangihanga?

    Okay, what is the purpose of reciting the poi at unveilings and funerals?

    Kia pai te haere o te tūpāpaku ki te kōpū o te whenua. Ko te reo whakamutunga. Kia wātea te huarahi, kia wātea tōna huarahi, ka taki i te karakia ‘Aotea’, a ‘Kī mai’ me ‘Pērā hoki’.

    So that the deceased travels safely to the heart of the earth. That’s the final voice. So that the path is clear. The karakia ‘Aotea’, ‘Kī mai’ and ‘Pērā hoki’ are also recited.

    Ka pai, katoa o ērā he poi atua, nē? Ka pai. Nā wai koe i whakaako ki ngā poi atua?

    Awesome. So, all of those are poi atua right? Who taught you how to perform poi atua?

    Ko tōku māmā tētahi, i tuhia tāna mahi mō te poi atua

    My mother was one, her work was based on poi atua.

    Tana tuhinga whakapae

    Is that her thesis?

    Āe

    Yes.

    Āe, āe, tohu paerua.

    Yes indeed, master’s thesis.

    Ko te karapu o Pātea. Ia Rāhina ka mahi, ahakoa te aha, ka mahi i mua i tō mātou mutunga. I taku tīmatanga i whakaaro, “he ai kei te mahi?” He pōturi rawa atu tēnei, engari au e pakeke ana, i mōhio he take, he take kei te mahi.

    The Pātea club. Every Monday it is recited no matter what. They recite this right before the end. Initially I thought, why do we do this? This is so slow, but as I matured, I realised that there was a reason that it was recited.

    Ka pai, ka pai. Nō reira, he aha pea ō kawenga ināianei i roto i Te Ao Haka?

    Awesome. Therefore, what are some of your responsibilities now within Te Ao Haka?

    Tētahi mea, ko te tū hei kaiārahi kapa haka ki Te Kunega ki Pūrehuroa.

    One of them is to stand as a leader of Te Kunenga ki Pūrehuroa kapa haka.

    Tēnā koe

    Thank you.

    Mō te ropu o Manawatahi. Kei reira au hei tū hei kaiako mō te kapa haka. He rawe. Ehara i te mea kei reira au ki te whakatika i a rātou, e tohutohu ana he tika, he hē rānei.

    For the Manawatahi group. I’m there as a tutor for the group. It’s fantastic. It’s not like I’m there to critique them or instruct them that it’s correct or wrong.

    Kia aro atu ki tētahi mea, kia pai ake rātou. Koirā taku mea nui, e ngākaunui ana kia ngākaunui ana hoki rātou ki tēnei mea te kapa haka. Ka awhina i ōku mātua hoki ki roto o Aotea Utanganui. I tērā tau i awhi ki te taha o Te Kūreitanga, i hoki atu kia hora aku mātauranga ki roto i te ao kapa, ki aku teina.

    But to focus on things which will make the group better. That’s my main focus, I’m enthusiastic for them to be enthusiastic about kapa haka. I also assist my parents with Aotea Utanganui. Last year, I helped with Te Kūreitanga, I returned to share the knowledge that I have about kapa haka with my younger siblings.

    Tēnā koe, tēnā i hoki hei raukura tonu, hei raukura, arataki i ō teina i reira. Ka pai. Nā, e mōhio ana tātou i tētahi o ngā whakataetae whakamutunga o roto o Aotea, he wā i kitea te w’akaw’enumitanga o ngā kapa, nē? Tēnā, kōrerohia mai tēnā wheako.

    Thank you, thank you for returning back as an exemplar to guide your younger siblings. How great. Now, we know of one of the final competitions here within Aotea, a time when we witnessed the amalgamation of groups, right? Now please discuss that experience.

    Te Kapa o Te Kāhui Maunga, he kōtuinga o ngā uri Taranaki maunga, o Te Awa Tupua, me Rātana Pā. I whakakotahi mātou i raro i te kaupapa kotahi, ko te kapa haka, kia tuku atu ki te ao, ki Aotearoa, kei konei a Aotea, e mahi tonu ana i ngā mahi. Ahakoa he iti rawa atu tātou, he nui tō mātou mātauranga me tō mātou arohanui ki te kapa haka.

    Te Kāhui Maunga group, interlinking the descendants of our mountain Taranaki, our great river and Rātana Pā. We united under the one banner, under kapa haka for the world and New Zealand to see, here is Aotea, still doing the work. Even though there may not be a lot of us, we have a lot of knowledge and love for kapa haka.

    Koia. Ko wai te kaiako?

    Exactly. Who was the tutor?

    Ko ētahi ko Te Taepa, atu i a ia ko ngā kaiako o ia kapa ka noho hei kāhui.

    One was Te Taepa, other than him there was a tutor from each group that were part of the organising committee.

    Ka noho hei kāhui matua, hika! Ngā taniwha o Taranaki, nē? Nā reira, i pēhea tā rātou āta whakariterite, tārei i te hōtaka haka?

    They were all part of the organising committee. Whoa! All the leaders of Taranaki? Therefore, how did they prepare & shape the bracket?

    Nā reira, ko te kaiako matua ko Te Taepa, engari ki ia wāhi kei a rātou tētahi waiata te uru atu ki roto i tēnei hotaka. Pērā ki a, ‘E rere rā; ‘Mangungu taipo’, ‘Pakipakia’, ‘Ngā waka e whitu’. He rawe tērā waiata ki au. Ētahi waiata o Rātana.

    So, the main tutor was Te Taepa, but each place had a song that was part of the performing bracket. Such as ‘E rere rā’; ‘Mangumangu taipō’, ‘Pakipakia’, ‘Ngā waka e whitu’. I like that song. And some songs from Rātana.

    Te waiata tira, nē?

    The choral right?

    Āe, me te whakawātea.

    Yes, and the exit.

    Me te whakawātea āe, te pēne, te reo.

    Yes, and the exit, the band and musical instruments.

    Āe. Te reo rawe rawa atu o ērā taonga puoro, me te whakaeke. He waiata. Ehara i te mea he waiata engari he kaupapa mō tō mātou ihorei kua pahure, a Uncle Archie Hurunui. Ko ia tētahi i akiaki i tēnei mō te reo, mō te ao kapa haka. I reira ia mōku i ngā wā katoa, ko ia tētahi o ōku ihorei mō te reo, mō te reo o Taranaki.

    Yes. All those musical instruments are amazing, the entry as well. It’s a song. Actually, it’s not just a song but it was written for our esteemed leader who had passed away, for Uncle Archie Hurunui. He was one who encouraged us to pursue this for the language and kapa haka. He was always there for me; he was one of my respected leaders for the language and dialect of Taranaki.

    Mei kore mōna, ka kore au e pakari i roto i tēnei mea. Ko te reo Māori tōna taonga nā reira ko tōku taonga, ko tōna reo Māori me ōna akoranga katoa.

    I owe a lot to him, because I wouldn’t be as strong as I am without him. The Māori language was his gift; therefore, my treasures are his Māori language and all his lessons.

    Tēnā koe. Nō reira, hei whakakōpani ake i tā taua uiuitanga kōrero i te rangi nei, me taku mīharo rawa atu ki a koe, Tūheimoa. He aha pea ētahi kupu hei akiaki i te ohinga e para nei i ōu huarahi, tō huarahi ki Te Ao Haka?

    Thank you. Therefore, to conclude this interview today, I am in awe of you, Tūheimoa. What are perhaps some words of encouragement for the youth who are pursuing your path of Te Ao Haka?

    Me mahia! Me mahia i ngā mahi kapa haka, kei roto ngā pūkenga. Āe, ko ngā mahi tinana, waiata, kanohi. Engari ko ngā kōrero, koirā te mea nui. Anō hoki, kia mataara, kātahi, tukuna ki te ao.

    Do the work! Pursue kapa haka, there are many skills within it. Yes, from actions, to songs, to facials. But the main thing is the oral history. Also, be alert and unleash your potential upon the world.

    Āe, tēnā rawa atu koe kei taku iti raukura me ngā kōrero kua komo mai ki tēnei o ngā raupō o Te Ao Haka. Ka nui te mihi ki a koe, oti noa ki ō ihorei, o Ngāti Tūpito, oti noa ngā paranga kei waenga i a tāua, Ngāti Manuhiakai, ngā uri o Tītokowaru. Tēnā koe Tūheimoa.

    Yes, thank you very much our precious treasure for all the stories that you have shared which will be added to our raupō girdle of Te Ao Haka. We are truly grateful to you and all your leaders of Ngāti Tūpito, furthermore all the connections between us, between Ngāti Manuhiakai and the descendants of Tītokowaru. Thank you Tūheimoa.

     

    Outro: 

    As the interview finishes fades to black screen bring up again the scenic shots of toetoe then a shot of a carved pou. The skate park appreas and quickly dies out to a monument from Opotiki centre shot. 50km speed sign which also has Opotiki on it. Crosses to a panning shot of a mural from the town centre. It returns to the beach then to the river with barge, which has two boy who look to be skimming rocks. Then back to the beach and the river mouth with a walking bridge out the river, then to the walking bridge with bike riders coming across. Back to a shot over looking the ocean and carved pou then quickly back to a different area of the river. A shot of the carved pou in Opotiki. Shots of street art and to the skate park once again with carved pou. Then closing on the carved pou which swtches over to a birds eye view of the district.

     

    [ Accordion ]

     

    Interviewee: Bronson Gage rāua ko Puao Whauwhau

    Interviewer: Hukarere Greening

    Location: Te Whānau a Apanui

    Intro:

    Music in the background continues through the whole introduction with opening scene of the beach side with rakau. Camera shot of marae and changes to drive past ocean as visual changes to a bay with a log on the beach and water and trees in background. Camera then pans ground level across the beach showing seaweed and then shows coastal shore with rocks and water in the background. Wave crashes around rock and shows close-up on water breaking close to rocks. Camera view of a sign saying “Nau mai, haere mai, you are entering the tribal lands of Te Whanau a Apanui. Next taking a drive into the rohe surrounded by ngahere. Camera then pans with a jetty and ocean and a small community in the background surrounded by hills. Quick visuals of Waihau Bay Lodge and changing visual to a park where the swings are moving with other obstacles in background. Camera pans across the water and down the jetty where the words Te Whānau-a-Apanui appear and screen goes black with Te Whanau a Apanui still showing before the words Te Ao Haka appear. Music stops as the camera focuses on the 3 people sitting on chairs set up for the interview.

    Te reo Māori

    Te reo Pākehā

    Kei aku whanaungā, tēna rā kōrua.

    Nau mai ki tēnei Pūnua pāho mo Te Ao Haka.

     

    Hei rauemi mō wā tātou tamariki mokopuna ā ki tēnei mea te Haka, nau mai haere mai.

     

    Tuatahi ake whakamōhio mai kō wai kōrua, nōhea kōrua?

    Kā timata ke kia koe Puao.

    My relations, hello to you both.

    Welcome to this podcast for Te Ao Haka.

     

    A resource for our children for haka, welcome.

     

     

    Firstly, please tell us who you both are and where you are from.

    Let’s start with you Puao.

    Kō Puao Whauwhau tōku ingoa.

    Hē uri tēnei nō Ngāti Hāua, ō Tuhoe, ō Ngāti Whakaue.

    My name is Puao Whauwhau.

    I am a descendent of Ngāti Hauā, of Tūhoe and Ngāti Whakaue.

    Tēna koe Puao.

    Thank you, Puao.

    Kia Ora, kō Bronson Gage tōku ingoā.

    Whanau Apanui, a hē Kahungunu tēnei, hē Whakatohea tēnei, hē Ngāti Porou tēnei, ā hē Maniapoto anō hoki.

    Kia ora, my name is Bronson Gage.

    I am Te Whānau a Apanui, Kahungunu, Whakatōhea, Ngāti Porou and Ngāti Maniapoto.

    Kia Ora.

    Tēna rā kōrua.

    Tuatahi ake ka hoki atu ngā mahara ki te wā tuatahi i rongo ai i tē wairua o tēnei mea te haka a Tāne Rore a Hine Rehia.

     

    He aha tēna Puao?

    He aha o maharatanga tuatahi ki tēnei mea te haka?

    Kia ora.

    Thank you both.

    Firstly, think back to the time you first encountered the essence of this thing, of haka, the haka belonging to Tānerore and Hinerēhia.

     

    What is that for you, Puao?

    What are your first memories regarding haka?

    I te timatanga, ā he waka tēnei hei kawe i te reo tuatahi i roto i tō mātou Hāpori.

    I te mea i te memehā haere te reo, nāreira ko Te Ao Haka he waka hei kawe i te reo i roto i ngā waiata, i roto hoki i tēra i au e tamariki tonū ana.

    Ko taku tū tuatahi e maumaharatia nei ē au.

    E whakaeke ana mātou i runga i te ātāmira, anā ko taku hoa i taku taha e, i te tū tonu a ia ki taku tūranga.

    Anā ko au tēna e whakanekeneke ana i a ia, ia mātou e haka ana e waiatā ana i ngā waiatā.

    Anā ko u te kaiwhakangāhau o tauā rā hoki.

    Heoi anō, koinā tōku mahi i roto i te whakaeke mō te katoā ō te waiatā.

    Kia mutu noa ngā mahi kā whakamōhio atu ki taku hoa “Ānei kē tō tūranga!, nāku kē tēnei tūranga!?

    Firstly, it is a vehicle to deliver the first language to our communities.

    Because te reo was in decline, haka became a vehicle to deliver the language through songs, and this was only when I was a child.

     

    The first performance I remember. We were making our way on to the stage, and my mate next to me was standing in my spot.

     

    So, I moved her over while we were performing haka and songs.

    I was the one who made everyone giggle on the day. But yes, that’s what I did throughout the entirety of the entrance item.

     

    When we had finished, I said to my friend, “This is your spot here! This is my spot!”

    Heoi anō koinā wāku maharatanga tuatahi pea mō taku tū tuatahi pea mō taku tū tuatahi i roto ī tē ao Haka.

    So those are my first memories regarding my first kapa haka performance.

    Hē hoa tonu kōrua?

    Are you two still friends?

    Ae he whanaungā, he whanaungā tāua.

    Kā hoki tonu o kōrua maumahara ki tēra.

     

    Ae kā kata hoki mātou mē taku kī “A titiro ki ahau ināianei, ē ārahi ana i tētahi o ngā Kapa nunui ō Aotearoa”

     

    Ae tika.

     

    Mē taku mīharo hoki ki tēra.

    We are relations, we are relations.

    Do you two still reminisce about that?

     

    Yes, and we laugh about it, and I say, “Look at me now, leading one of the most prestigious groups in Aotearoa.”

     

    Yes, that's true.

     

    And I’m still in awe of that.

    Kā pai.

    Kā mau te wehi, panapana i tō hoa.

    Mean.

     

    Kia koa Brons.

    He aha pea ō maharatanga tuatahi ki tēnei mea te haka?

    Awesome.

    Terrific, moving your friend over.

    Rawe.

     

    To you, Brons.

    What are your first memories regarding haka?

    Nō reira ka peka atu au ki ngā huinga o Te Hui Aranga. Anā, koirā taku whāinga me ngā hautututanga o tērā wā.

    Engari ka kite atu i ētahi wā ka tū au ki te taha ki ngā rōpū kapa, engari ehara i te mea tino ngākaunui. 

    Anā, koirā i tērā wā.

    Whakamihi nei au ki taku tupuranga ki roto i te hāhi me Te Hui Aranga. Nā, he whakaarotanga ki a nanny Bidi, kātahi ka ngaro atu nei.

    Ki a Morvin, tētehi o ngā pou.

    Uncle Henare, tō koroheke pāpā.

    So, I would go to the Hui Aranga celebration. That's what I wanted to do, and that’s where I’d go and be a mischief back then.

    But looking back, yes, I did perform with some groups, but I wasn’t that passionate about it.

     

    That was back then.

    But I acknowledge being brought up in the church and at Te Hui Aranga. I think about nanny Bidi who has now passed on.

    And about Morvin (Simon), one of the leaders.

    Uncle Henare, your grandfather.

    I tipu keha mai tēnei.

    I haere au ki tētahi kura Katorika.

    I rēra rā i tūtaki au i tētahi māori, ko tāna ingoā ko Walter Tamepo.

    Taku maharatanga, ko ia tā mātou kaiako tuatahi.

    I aua wā ko te Māori Cultural Dance te ingoa, kāre kau ko te, ko te Kapa Haka.

    I aua wā, ka tae mātou ki ngā parakatihi a Ngāti Pōneke

    Ka haere ki ngā parakatihi ia manē, i te taha o tā mātou whanaunga ā Uncle George Hīnaki. Me ōna tamariki.

    Kāore mātou i hari i te paku aha.

    Ka tae noa, arā, he kai i reira, ka tākaro tahi ki ngā tamariki.

    Ka mahi ngā pākeke i ā rātou mahi.

    Nō reira, kāore au i paku pai ki te kapa haka.

    I ērā wā, ‘You were Māori’.

    Kōinā ehara ko te iwi, māna – I mōhio noa au he Māori au.

    I grew up Pākehā-like.

    I went to a Catholic school.

    There I met a Māori by the name of Walter Tamepo.

    From what I remember, he was our first tutor.

    Back then, it wasn’t called kapa haka, it was called Māori Cultural Dance. 

     

    During those times we would attend Ngāti Pōneke practices.

    We’d go to practices every Monday alongside our relation, uncle George Hinaki and his children.

     

    So, didn't take anything to thing.

    We just used to go there and, there's a feed play with the other kids.

    The adults were doing what they were doing.

    So, I wasn't amused at Kapa Haka at all.

    Back then “He māori koe”

    That’s it, wasn't the iwi or, i just knew I was a Māori.

    Nō reira i haere atu koe ki reirā ki te whakawhanaungā atu ki ō hoa.

    He aha te mea nui, he aha te hihiritamga ō tēna momo whakawhanaungātanga i auā rā?

    So, you went there to get to know your mates.

    What was the main thing? What was the importance of that kind of relationship building back then?

    Kāo, kāore mātou i reira mō tērā, nē, i te mea –

    Taku pāpā tāna mahi i nā pō, ko taku māmā mahi tāna.

    Nō reira, i te manaakitia mātou e tō mātou whānau, arā, ka haere tahi mātou ki a rātou

    Ka haere tahi ki ngā parakatihi a Ngāti Pōneke, ā, kāore mātou i mōhio he kapa rongonui kē rārou.

    Āe, kāore i mōhio.

    I whai pānga mai rānei ki a au?

    Nah we were never bloody there for that aye cause a-

    My dad worked at night, and my mum also had work.

    So, he had to get babysitted by our relations and we would tag along with them.

    And attend the Ngāti Pōneke practices and little that we had known they were actually a well-known team.

    And yeah, yeah with nothing.

    Did it mean anything to me?

    Āe, i taua wā?

    Yeah, at that time?

    Yeah.

    Wētahi wā kā rongohia i te reo māori e kōrero ana.

    Kō te whutupōro, takoro Rīki Koinā te mahi ō Ngā Māori I Pōneke.

    Engari i te mutunga kē tērā o te kēmu, ka tū ana te kāpene, heoi ka lucky mēnā ka tū tētahi ka kōrero Māori.

    Ka rangona i ētahi wā.

    Ka haere ki Ōrongomai Marae i Upper Hutt.

    Ka haere ki ētahi kaupapa i reira.

    I pakeke ōku hāmuri i te Kōhanga Reo, engari i haere kē au ki te whare kōhungahunga Pākehā.

    Āe.

    Rugby League. The Māori in Wellington played Rugby League.

    Sometimes we would hear te reo Māori being spoken.

    But that was like when you're at the end of the game and the captain stands up, and you know waimarie if someone speaks Māori.

    Sort of hear that.

    Would go to Ōrongomai Marae in Upper Hutt.

    Yeah, we'd attend functions there.

    My brothers they grew up in Kōhanga reo and I went to a Kindergarten.

    Nō reira i pakeke mai koe i Ngāti Haua nē?

    Āe.

    Kōrerohia mai mōte āhuatanga o te Haka, me ngā momo waiata e rere ana i āua wā rā, te Hāhi

    So, you grew up within Ngāti Hauā, eh?

    Yep.

     

    Tell me about what haka was like, and what kind of songs were sung then, and the church.

    Nō reira ko te nuingā o ngā waiata i waiatahia e mātou ā mō te reo.

    A i te mea hoki i te whakaora mātou i te reo māori, ā anā ko ngā Wero nui ki runga i ngā whānau, ki te iwi kia whakapakari anō i te reo māori.

    Anā ae i tipu ake mātou i raro, i roto i te Karaitiana.

    Ā ēra mahi hoki i puta mai ngā mahi pūoro.

    Ā i ngā rā hoki kō taku kuia tētahi o ngā kaitito waiatā.

    Ana koia hoki te mea i tito i ngā waiata mō ngā kōrero ō te iwi, ngā kōrero mo ngā mate mē te reo hoki.

    So, the majority of songs we would sing were about the language.

    Because we were revitalising te reo Māori, and that was one of the challenges facing us as a family, as an iwi, to revitalise the Māori language.

    We grew up in the Christian faith. So, with that came music.

     

     

    Back then, my nanny was a composer.

    She would compose songs about the stories within the tribe, those who have passed on and te reo as well.

    Nō reira i tē rongo ngā Pātu ō Tauwhare i tēra momo āhuatanga?

    So, you would hear Ngā Pātu ō Tauwhare and the like?

    Kei te pēra tonū, kei tē waiatahia tonutia ngā waiata rā i tēnei rā.

    Ko ngā tamariki ā taku kuia hoki.

    Ko rātou pea ngā mea wāhine i kaha kōrero māori.

    Kāre ngā mea tāne e kōrero māori i roto i taku whanau.

    A nō reira ko rātou ngā mea kaitito o roto i te whānau.

    I roto hoki ngā reo e rua.

    Anā ko ngaa reo i puta mai, ko te reo i puta mai ko te reo ō te Paiperā.

    Nō reira e tāea ai mātou ki te tūhono ki te ia o te kaupapa e tito ai e rātou.

    ea ētahi rerekētanga, ōritenga rānei, i kitea e koe?

    It’s still like that, we still sing those songs today.

     

    My grandmother's daughters as well.

    They were the ladies who consistently spoke Māori.

     The men in my family didn’t speak Māori.

     

    So, they were the composers within my family.

    In both languages.

    The language of delivery was the language within the Bible.

    So, we could connect with each topic they composed about.

    What were some of the differences or similarities you saw?

    Nō reira kei te waiatatia tonutia i ēra waiatā i ēnei wā nei?

    So those songs are still sung today?

    Wētahi, ngā mea rongonui o tēnei rā.

    Ana kō Anō te pai, Maranga hauā.

    Engari kei te ako anō mātou tēnei reangā i aua waiata rā.

    Anā ia tāua e kōrero nei, kei te tīmata te iwi ki te whakatakotō i ēra waiata i runga Kōpae.

    I te mea hoki e tokomaha o rātou i noho ki roto ia Ngāti Hāua whānua, arā i roto ia Ruku Moana, ki Te Waharoa, ā ki Tauwhare anō hoki.

    Some. The famous ones such as ‘Ānō te pai’, ‘Maranga Hauā’.

    Some of my generations are just learning these songs today.

    As we’re speaking, some of the tribes are actually recording these songs.

    Because there are so many of them who reside within the boundaries of Ngāti Hauā, in Rukumoana, Te Waharoa, as well as Tauwhare.

    Ka rawe, mīharo.

    Mīharo tēna.

    Brons i hoki mai koe, you came back down to Te Kaha, Te Whana ā Apanui ki te Kura ai?

    He aha rā te hau ē  wawara ana i aua wā rā?

    A mo tēnei mea te Haka, mē ō kaiako e whakaako ana ia koe?

    Wow, amazing.

    That’s amazing.

    Brons, you returned – i hoki mai koe ki Te Kaha, ki Te Whānau a Apanui to go to school?

    Where did the wind take you back then?

     

    In terms of haka, and your tutors who taught you?

    A taku hokitanga mai ki ta kāinga, i āhua harawene ahau.

    Nā te mea kō ōku whanaunga e kōrero māori ana nē.

    Kāre tēnei e paku mōhio he aha tā rātou kōrero.

    Something simple as getting the sheets or getting a pillow at the marae, and I'll be standing there like.

    Yeah.

    When I went back home, I was a little jealous.

     

     Because my relatives could speak Māori.

    I didn’t understand at all what they were saying.

     

    Ahakoa he mea ngāwari pērā i te tiki i ngā hīti, te tiki rānei i te pera i te marae. Ka tū noa au e pēnei ana, ‘āe’.

     

    Nō reira i ako koe i te reo i aua wā rā?

    So, you learnt te reo around that time?

    Oh, i akiaki noa i a au ki te ako ko wai ahau, nō hea ahau.

    When I was a kid, ka haere mātou ki tērā atu taha, ki Kahungunu, ki te taha o tōku māmā.

    Ka hararei i reira i tenuinga o te wā.

    To Napier, to Waipukurau, to Waipawa. 

    Nō reira taku māmā.

    Kāore mātou i tino haere pēnei mai.

    Heoi, ka tae mai ana ki konei, kei te haere mai i te tāone ki te taiwhenua.

    Tino rerekē.

    Nō reira i hīkaka ahau ki te mahi Māori, ahakoa te aha. Ka haere ki te ‘Ra’s’ me aku matua kēkē. Ka haere ōku whanaunga ki te Hāhi, e waia haere ai ōku taringa ki te reo.

     

    Nā, ka pānui ahau i ngā mea katoa kia kaua ahau e mahue. Āe, i taka a roto i te mea kāore au i mōhio ki taku ake reo.

    Ā, kei te ako tonu au i te rā nei, āe.

    Ā, i ngā wā ka haere ki Pōneke me aku tuākana, tuahine,

    Ka ako i ngā haka mai i reira.

    Ka haere ki Pōneke ki te hararei, ka hīkoi i ngā rori e kōrero ana,

    ‘Ka mate, ka mate…’ Ānō nei i te kōrero Māori mātou. Ka titiro mai ngā tāngata ki a mātou e pēnei ana, ‘aye?’

    Ka kitea hoki ngā waiata i te pukapuka Ringatū, ā, ka kōrero noatia. Ka kōrero mai ia i tētahi wāhanga, ā, ānō nei i te kōrero Māori māua.

    Kia, mōhio koe, kia taiea noa. I te mea, pēnei māua, ‘Kua hūnuku mātou ki konei, e hiahia ana ki te kōrero Māori, kia rite ki ō mātou whanaunga, nē.’

    Ka whakarongo ki ōku matua kēkē, me ērā mea katoa. Nō reira i rumaki au i a au anō ki ngā mea katoa.

    I tētahi kura Katorika ahau, ā, ka haere tōtika ki tētahi Kura Kaupapa Māori.

    I te noho ahau ki te akomanga mō te tau katoa.

    ‘Kārekau, kārekau’ Āe, karekau.

    Ko te…. wēnei noihō te whakarongo mē te titirō.

    Kia taka ngā tau, ka kōrero.

    Āe, koirā taku ara, ā, ko te kapa haka te mea i, auē…

    Ka ako i te reo Māori, ka ako ki te waiata, ka mahi i ēnei mea katoa mō ō tīpuna.

    Ka taea e koe ēnei mea katoa i te wāhi kotahi, ko te kapa haka tērā.

    Ko au tērā, ka ngākau tapatahi.

    Ngā tamariki, ka kore rawa e mōhio mō ngā rīpene ataata. Me ngā mahi e rīpene ai i tētahi mea ki rīpene kē atu.

     

    Nā, kei a rātou te TiriAta, ka patopato noa i tētahi ingoa, arā. Ka puta mai ngā ingoa.

     

    Kaua i mua rā. I konei ake, ko te…

    Oh, it just encouraged me to learn who i am and where i'm from.

    I au e tai tamariki ana. We would go on that other side to Kahungunu, on to my mother’s side.

    And spend most of our holidays on that side.

    Ki Ahuriri, ki Waipukurau, ki Waipāua.

    That’s where my mother’s from.

    And we hardly came on this side.

    And then once we came here.

    Aye you're coming from a city to yeah rural aye.

    Very different.

    And so, I was eager to do anything Māori.

    So, we’d go to the Ra’s with my uncles. My cousins would go to see the Hāhi so my ears could thing to the reo.

    Then I would just read anything, aye cause I just didn’t wanna miss out. Or yeah, I just felt ratshit really cause I didn’t know my own language.

    Which I’m still learning today, yeah.

    And I would often, when we would go down to Wellington with my older siblings.

    We would learn Haka from up there.

    And we’d go down to Wellington for holidays, and we would walk down the street, and saying.

    Like “Kā Mate, kā mate.” Like we were talking Māori.

    Like everyone looking at us like ‘aye’.

    And we’d do different songs from the Ringatū book, and then we’d just talk it. And he’d say the other part, and it’d look like you know we were talking Māori.

    Just to, you know, just to be cool cause we thought “we moved here, fuh we wanna talk Māori, we wanna be like our cousin’s aye”.

     

    Listen to my uncles and all that. So, I pretty much immersed myself in anything.

    I come from a Catholic school, went straight into a Kura Kaupapa Māori.

    I was sitting in the class for the whole year.

    “Nothing, nothing “, yeah nothing.

     

    Just…. this, listening and watching. 

    Wasn't till after years later the, just talk.

    Yeah, was my journey and the Kapa Haka was just that thing that, oh man.

     

    You can learn Māori, you can learn how to sing, you can do all these things of our ancestors.

    You can do it all in just one thing and it was Kapa Haka.

    Yeah, that was me I became a freak.

    Kids they wouldn't even know about the video tapes.

    And what we had to do in order to Dub things on to another tape.

    You know they got like Youtube you can type up a name and bang. The names come up.

    Not back then it was a, especially down here it was a.

    Penē mē te pepā.

    Pen and paper.

    Koia. Ka pēhia, ka mōhio, ka whakatūngia, ka tuhia te kupu, ‘ka pai.’ I kaha pērā au i ngā waiata a Waka Huia, āe.

    Yeah, used to press it and then you know, pause it, write the word down “oh yup”. I did that with heaps of Waka Huia songs too and well, yeah.

    Nō reira, ka hoki mai ki konei ki te tūhono anō ki tō taha Māori.

     

    He aha ētahi kupu akiaki hei tuku māu ki ngā tamariki kāore anō kia tūhono ki tērā taha o rātou, kei te ako tonu rānei i tērā taha?

    So, coming back here, to reconnect with your Taha Māori.

     

    What advice would you give to our kids out there that haven’t yet connected with that side, or learning that side?

    E kuhu.

    He nui ngā waimarietanga, i te mea i homai taku reo Māori – ka tahi.

    Arā, he rau mea anō ka hua mai i tō reo Māori, he pēnei i te rākau taumatua.

    He peka anō ka hua mai i tērā.

    Ko te hītori o tō iwi, ā, kaua o tō iwi anake.

    Engari ka tīmata tō ako mō ngā hītori o tangata kē, ō rātou iwi, pepehā, he mea iti pēnei i te pepehā.

    Koia. Ka akiaki au i a rātou ki te kuhu, ā,

    Get in there.

    It’s been so fortunate,because one it gave my reo Māori to me.

    And then from your reo Māori all these things come, it’s like a huge tree.

    And heaps of branches that come off that.

    And history about your people, not just your people.

    But you start learning about other people’s history and their iwi, their Pepehā, something as small as their Pepehā.

    Yeah, I would just encourage them to get in there and just.

    Ki te ngana.

    Give it a go.

    I kīia mai tō mātou reanga e kore te kapa haka e hari i a koe ki hea ake rānei.

     

    Engari kua waimarie ahau ki te haere i te ao, nā te kapa haka. Kāore hoki ahau i utu i te paku aha.

    Come from a rēanga where we got told that Kapa Haka wouldn’t take you anywhere.

     

    And I’ve been fortunate enough to go around the world through Kapa Haka, didn’t have to pay a cent either.

    Te reo māori e whakatipu ana I te reo māori ki roto i te Hāpori o Ngāti Haua, Tauwhare.

     

    I haka rānei koe ki reira i te kura, he aha pea te rongo i auā wā rā?

    Te reo Māori growing te reo Māori in the Ngāti Hauā, Tauwhare community.

     

    Did you do kapa haka while you were at school there? What was the feeling like back then?

    Nā te mea ngā tamariki katoā i roto i te Hāpori i haere katoā mātou ki te kura.

    Nō reira mai te Whare Karakia, tae noa ki te Kura. Nō reira i te mahi tahi i te Whare Karakia me te kura.

    Mahi waiata, ana kā hoki mai ki te kura, nā he pēra anō. He rite pea kia tā Bronson kōrero. I te hiakai noihō mātou.

    I tāua wā hoki he haka noihō, he mahi noa i ngā mahi. I tohutohungia e ngā kaiako, arā i taua wā tonū kō taku māmā. Me tāna tungāne i rēira ē tohutohu ana ia mātou. Me ngā mea pākeke hoki.

    I te mea mēna i te hiahia mātou i te whakapakari i te reo, mē mahia hoki ngā pākeke. Kia tāea hoki ngā tamariki te whakapiki hoki i roto i te reo, mē te ao Haka.

    All the children in the community went to the school.

    From the church to school. We would be together at church and at school. 

     

    We’d sing then go back to school and do it all again. Exactly like Bronson said, we were hungry for it.

    Back then it was just haka, we’d just do as we were told. The teachers would instruct us, and back then that was my mum and her brother instructing us. As well as some of the elders.

     

    Because if we wanted to strengthen our language, the adults had to be part of it as well. So, the children could grow up immersed in the language and in kapa haka.

    Nō reira i haka tahi ngā pakeke i te taha o ngā tamariki?

    So, the adults did kapa haka with the children?

    Āe na te mea, i te whare karakia hoki rātou.

    Tino kaha tō mātou Hāpori i āua rā.

    I rēira hoki tonū ngā pākeke, ngā kuia, korōua.

    Ana ā mātou pākeke, ngā mea e tohutohua e o rātou kuia korōua. Nō reira e tino waimarie rātou, ā mātou pākeke.

    Ahakoa kāre rātou i kōrero i te reo māori, kō rātou ngā mea i patua i tē kura mō tē kōrero māori.

    Nō reira kia whanau mai mātou, wā rātou tamariki.

    Anā kā tīmata anō rātou ki te kōrero māori mai ki wā rātou tamariki.

    Yea cause, they were also at the church.

    Our community was very strong back then.

    The elders – elderly women and men – were still around.

    Our elders were the ones who were instructed by their elders. So, they were the fortunate ones, our elders.

    Although, they didn’t speak Māori. They were the generation who were hit at school for speaking Māori.

    So, when we were born, their children, they began speaking Māori to us.

     

    Nō reira, mai ia Ngāti Haua i hūnuku atu koutou ko tō whānau ki Te Arawa.

    I pēhea rā, i Rūmakitia te reo ki reira?

     

    I haere tonu koe ki rēira haka ai?

    So, from Ngāti Hauā, you moved to your family into Te Arawa.

    How was that? Were you immersed in the language there?

    Did you continue to do kapa haka there?

    Ae, i haere au ki Te Kura ō Ruamatā.

    I tāua tau hoki, i nui ngā kura noho i raro ō te maru ō Ruamatā.

    A nā te tokoiti ō ngā tamariki i aua kura, a i whakakotahi ai i ngā kura katoā hei Kura Kaupapa māori ō Te puku ō te Ika ā Māui.

    Yes, I went to Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Ruamatā.

    That year, there were many schools under the banner of Ruamatā.

    Because of the small amount of students in each of those schools, we came together to form Ngā Kura Kaupapa Māori o Te Puku o te Ika a Māui.

    Wairua hīkaka kōutou i taua wā?

    Were you excited then?

    Ae, engari i taua wā hoki, te kite, te tūtaki i ngā tamariki nō wāhi kē.

    Me te whakawhanaungā, me te tū honohono i wēra taurahere i wāenga i tēra kura me tēra kura.

    E mīharo nātemea i roto i tō mātou hāpori kō mātou noihō, te kite atu i wētahi atu.

    Like wow.

    Yes, but at the same time we were excited to see and meet kids from elsewhere.

    Through relationship building and building those connections between the schools.

     

    It was amazing because in our community, it was just us. When we saw others, we were like wow.

     

    Ki te mahi tahi.

    I pēhea rā ō kaiwhakaako i aua wā rā?

     

    He mea tohutohu, he mea tōwai i ngā nekeneke aha atu rānei?

    Working together.

    How were your tutors then?

     

    Were there new or repeated movements?

    Tino mīharo au ki wāku ki kaiako.

    Ahakoa ko taku kaihana me tāna hoa rangatira, engari tino ngāwari wana mahi.

    Tino mārama wāna tohutohu, māmā noa wā rāua tuku i ngā mahi kia mātou.

    Anō tēra wā hoki kā tipu tē hia kai, ā tē ngākau nui ki te haka.

    I te mea pōhēhē au he mahi ā ringa, he mahi poi he waiata noihō.

    Engari i tino kite au, i rongo hoki au i te wairua ō ngā mahi nei.

    I was so amazed at my tutors. 

    Even though it was my cousin and his/her partner, they were very compassionate.

    Their instructions were very clear, the way they taught us was very calm.

    It was then my hunger and passion for haka began.

     

    Because I was under the impression that it was just action songs, poi and singing.

    But I really saw and heard the essence of this activity.

    Hē tino wairua pēra ia Te Aho Matuā nē?

    Me ngā Mātāpono ō Te Aho Matua.

    He mīharo rawa atū tēna kaupapa.

    Me ngā Matāpono kei roto.

    He kapa i whai i wēra Mātāpono?

    Nā te mea he Kura kaupapa māori katoā?

    An essence like Te Aho Matua, yes?

    And the values of Te Aho Matua.

    That’s an amazing initiative, as well as the values that reside within.

    Did that group adopt those values?

    Since they were all Kura Kaupapa Māori?

    Tika tāhau, koinā hoki ngā āhuatanga e whakauruhia mai ē ngā kaiako.

    Engari i taua wā hoki i te ngana tonū ngā Kura kaupapa te whakapiki i ngā āhuatanga ō Te Aho Matuā.

    Arā i tēa wā hoki, ahakoā kāre mātou i mōhio ki Te Aho Matua, kō te wairua o ngā mahi.

    Anā nō tēnei wā tonu kā kite mātou, “oh koinā kē tō mātou Aho matua”

    Hē “Aroha tētahi ki tētahi”.

    He mahi tahi, te noho ā te tēina mē te tuakana i raro i te whakāro kotahi.

     

    Āe tika!

    Nō reira i rongo mātou i tēra, ahakoa kāre i kōrerohia.

    You’re absolutely right, those are also the values the tutors instilled.

    But back then, Kura Kaupapa Māori were still trying to promote the features of Te Aho Matua.

     

    So, at that time, even though we didn’t exactly know Te Aho Matua, it was the essence within what we were doing.

    It was then we saw, ‘Oh this is actually our Te Aho Matua.’

     

    It was ‘loving one another’. Working together, the old and young coming together for the same purpose.

    Correct!

    So, we felt that, even though it wasn’t spoken about.

    Ae anō te pai nē?

    Anō te pai otēra maumaharatanga.

     

    Brons i Haka koe i kōnei i tē kura tuatahī, i tē kura tuarua rānei?

    That’s fantastic!

    What a fantastic memory.

     

    Brons, did you do kapa haka in primary school or secondary school?

    Ae te kura tuatahi, kura tuarua Te kura ō Ōmaio, waimare.

    Kā haramai tā mātou Aunty, taku Aunty kō Aunty Maka Te Ao Muhurangi. Me Uncle Con, kō rāua tahi.

    I tino waimarie mātou ko mātou pea te kapa whakamutunga nāna i whakaako i mua i tana matenga.

    I taua wā, kāore au i paku mōhio ko wai te wahine rā, heoi, ko ia te, e mōhio ana koe.

    E titiro mai ana ia ki a au, kāo kei te titiro ia ki tētahi atu. Āe, i te nuinga o te wā he mea pai i te wā kāore ia i te titiro ki a koe.

    Heoi, āe, i a ia tētahi o ērā karu tūmatarau.

    Heoi, āe, i tino waimarie au.

    Nā, ka titiro whakamuri ana, waimarie ana au kia noho ko tētahi momo pērā i a ia hei kaiako i taua wā.

    Ka whakaako rātou i āku tamariki, i ā māua tamariki.

    I karangahia mātou ko ‘The Little Wack Pack Team’.

    Ko Tūtawake te Wack Pack Team.

    Ā, ko mātou te ‘Wack Pack’

    Ā, i a rātou ēnei waiata harihari, mēnā i waimarie ki te whakakanohi,

    Ki te whai wāhi atu ki ngā ā-motu, kua waiata i ēnei waiata. Nō reira i kīia mātou ko te ‘Little Wack Pack team’, te tīma a Tūtawake, Te Whānau a Tūtawake.

    I te mea, i tata mahi mātou i ngā mea katoa i mahia e rātou. I ētahi wā i pai ake i a rātou.

     

    Ōna mātauranga katoā.

    Kia taka rawa te wā ka mārama ko ia te take e pēnei ana tēnei āhuatanga.

    Whai muri, ka haere ahau ki Maraenui. Ko ō mātou kaiako kapa haka ko ō mātou kaiako tonu, ā, he kaiako tonu i ēnei rā nei.

    Yes, primary school and secondary school – Te Kura o Ōmāio. Lucky.

    My aunty came, my aunty Maka Te Ao Muhurangi and uncle Con. It was both of them.

    We were very fortunate to maybe be the last Kapa that she had taken before she had passed on.

     

    At the time I didn’t even know who the lady was and, oh she's the, you know.

    She's looking at me, no she's looking at somebody else. Yeah, usually that was a good thing when she's not looking at you.

    But yeah, she just has one of those tricky eyes aye.

    And yeah, I was pretty fortunate.

    You know when you look back at it.

    You know I was pretty fortunate to have a person like her to teach us in that time.

    They teach my children, our children.

    Yeah, so we were known as “The little Wack Pack team”.

    So, the wack pack team is Tūtauake.

    And we were called The Wack Pack.

    And they had these little banner songs that, if we were lucky enough to represent.

    To get into the Nationals, we would have these little songs that we would sing.

     

     

    Cause we had basically done everything that they had done. And sometimes we may have done it better than them.

    All of her knowledge.

    It's not till you find out later on that she was responsible for all this you know.

    Then I went to Maraenui.  Our Kapa Haka tutors were our teachers, and they are still teachers there today.

    Nō reira, i a kōrua e tipu ana i ō kōrua kura, me te kawe i ō kōrua mātāpono ake, me te ako i raro i ō kaiako.

    He aha ō whakaawenga kia (pēnei)? He aha ō akoranga, he aha hoki ngā pūkenga i ākona e kōrua, i kawea ki ō kōrua kapa pakeke?

    Pērā i a Aunty Maka.

    He aha ngā āhuatanga o ōna whakaakoranga ka whakamahia tonutia e koe, ā, kua kawea e koe i tō ara kapa haka?

    So, growing up, both of you growing up in your kura, taking the Mātāpono that you've got, and being taught by your tutors.

    What has inspired you to be? What have you learnt, and what skills have you picked up that have transferred into your adult teams?

    Like Aunty Maka you know.

     

    What do you still take from her teachings, and have taken it through your Kapa Haka journey?

    Ā, heoi, nō reira i te wā…

    Nā, kei te ako haere tonu au i tērā.

    I te mea, e ako tonu ana au i te reo Māori, i roto i ngā tau…

    E tūhura mai ana ētahi kōrero, ā, kei te whakahuihuitia e au ērā kōrero. I te mea, i te wā e taitamariki ana ahau, kāore au i mōhio ko wai ia.

    A whanaungā noihō, taku Aunty tēra.

    Ahakoa mēnā i rongonui rātou, ko aunty tērā, ko Uncle tērā.

    Kia taka rawa ngā tau, ka huritao nē.

    Pēnei, ‘E tōminahia ana i tipu kē au i konei, i whānau kē mai au i konei.’ Kia hōhonu ake aku mōhiotanga.

    I te mea, ka hoki ana ōku mahara, he kaponga rarapa noa. Nāna mātou i whakaako, ana koia.

    Ko te āhuatanga whakaako tērā, ā, tē paku aro i a au.

    I te aro kē ahau ki tōna reo Māori.

    Ā, me te ngana hoki kia tangata whenua ngā mea katoa, me te reo hoki. Koirā taku whāinga, i te whai au kia rumaki au i a au anō ki ngā mea reo Māori katoa.

     

    Ahakoa mēnā ko te kapa haka, ko te Ringatū, ko te tae rānei ki ngā tangi.

    I te haere au ki ngā tangi ki te whakarongo noa, ki te whakarongo ki ngā tāngata.

    Āe, kaua mō te kaupapa o te tangi, kei korā ētahi atu mō te kaupapa o te tangi, heoi e haere kē ana au ki te whakarongo noa ki a rātou.

    Ā, kua pērā au tae noa ki tēnei rā.

    Ka whakarongo au ki ngā tāngata, ki te āhua o tā rātou whakarārangi i ngā kōrero.

    Engari, ka hoki mahara ana au ki taku ohinga, me te aro ki tana āhua whakaako, āe.

    I was a bit unaware, i te aro kē au ki “te kōrero Māori pērā i ōku whanaunga.”

    I te mea i rongo au i te mahue au.

    Yeah, nah so when.

    Like I'm still finding that thing out aye.

    Because I'm still learning how to speak Māori you know, with the years have gone.

    And then I'm finding out information.

    And I'm just accumulating all these things you know when I’m young and I didn’t know who she was.

    She was just my relation, my aunty.

    Even if they were well known that was Aunty, that was Uncle.

    It wasn’t till years later you know you start thinking back aye.

    Like “I wish I grew up here, like born here” so, I actually get more depth.

    Cause when I look back at that it’s like a flash aye, she had taught us, and sort of just were.

    That was the tutoring thing, I wasn’t even looking at that.

    I was, what I was looking at was, listening to her Mãori.

    And then you know, trying to absorb everything, the language.

    That was my goal, I was just going to immerse myself in anything that’s got to do with Māori language.

    Whether it was Kapa Haka, whether it was Ringatū, whether it was going to Tangi.

    I just used to go to Tangi just to listen, just to listen to people.

    Yeah, not actually there for the Tangi, you're there for the Tangi but i'm going there just to listen to them.

     

    And I've done that right to this day.

    Yeah, and just listen to people how they structure their kōrero.

    Yeah, but when I look back at my younger days, looking at how she tutored, yeah.

    The kūare, but I was just concentrating on “I wanna talk Māori like my cousin’s aye”.

    Cause you just feel left out.

    Pēhea a Uncle Con?

    What about Uncle Con?

    Uncle Con, āe, i muri i noho mai hoki ia hei kaiako. Engari, ka rere ngā tau, ka kitekite mātou i a ia i ngā parakatihi a Te Whānau a Tūtawake. Koirā taku kapa pakeke tuatahi.

    He nui te matauranga.

    Ko ia tētahi o ngā uri ka puta, kātahi ka hoki mai.

    Nā, ka puta ki te ako, ā, ka whakahokia mai ngā mātauranga mai i ngā tini kaiako.

    Ka kōrero pōrangi mai ia ki a mātou, ānō he tamariki mātou, ā, ka pakaru mai te kata i a mātou.

    Ka whakaaro ake ināianei, ā, “he aha te hiahia, pōrangi wāna whakāro” Ka mōhio haere ana koe ki te tangata.

    E mōhio nei te katoa, āe ko Uncle Con, e mōhiotia whānuitia ana ia. 

    Āe, i a ia ngā – i pai āna kōrero akiaki.

     

    I mua tata i te eke ki te atamira i a koe e tamariki ana, ā, e noho noa ana mātou…

    Ka tīkina e ia ētahi kōrero nō ētahi o ngā pākeke (elders), ā, kāore au e tino mōhio.

    Ko tētahi o āna kōrero (statements), “The haka stance of Apanui is the principal stance, Haka Taparahi.”

    Ā, ko te tū kē – āe.

    I kīia mātou ki te, i te mutunga iho, “Tahunā ki raro, tukuna ki raro kia tāwēwē ai tō poropēke”.

    Ki te kore ehara tērā i te tū. “Tukunā ki raro kia tāwewe ō poropēkē”.

    Arā, pēnei i te – i te pātai ahau, “Aye, he aha te tikanga o tāu e kōrero nei?”

    Ā, ka huihui mai ngā whanaunga me ā rātou ake whakamāramatanga.

    “E kī ana ia kia kaua e tū, me hakahaka.”

    Waihō mā te reo māori.

    Uncle Con yeah, hē became our tutor, but he sort of as the years we in you would see him regularly at Te Whanau ā Tū Tauake practices, where that was my first senior Kapa Haka.

    Yeah, a lot of knowledge.

    He’s one of our fellas that would've you know, been out and then kā hoki mai.

    You know went out to learn and bought his learning with him from various tutors.

    He would tell us silly things aye, like we’re kids and we’re laughing aye.

     

    You think about it now and ‘What did he actually want? His way of thinking is so silly.’  when you get to know the man.

    As everyone would know, yeah Uncle Con, he’s pretty well known everywhere.

    Yeah, and he just had, his prep talks were pretty good.

    You know just before you get on the stage as a youngster a, like we’re sitting there you know.

    He would take kōrero from some of our pakeke, and I’m not too sure.

    Yeah, one of the kōrero was “Kō te tū o Apanui mō tē Haka, kō te tino Haka kō te Haka Taparahi”

     

    And the stance is actually, yeah,

    We were told to, well basically “Be short in stature, be low so your testicles are hanging low.”

    If you don’t do that, that's not the stance aye. “Be low so your testicles are hanging low.”

    And that was like you know, i'm like asking “aye what are you talking about? “

    And you know all the different cousins got their version of how to explain it.

    “Basically, he's telling you, don't stand, you have to get down”.

    And I’ll leave the rest to be said in Māori.

    Tukuna kia tāwēwē.

    Let it all hang out.

    Ko tētahi atu ara e ako mai ai rātou, ka piri tata ki tētahi pātū, ā, ka raru ki ētahi te toro atu.

    Nā ka haere mātou, ka noho.

    Ka heke, me tōtika tonu te tuarā, ka tū hāhaka.

    Ā, ka, āe – i ōna wā koirā te kōrero a uncle Con ki a mātou. “Tukuna ki raro, Kia tāwēwēai ō poropēkē”

    Nā, ka hoki ngā mahara ināianei, ā, kua ako ahau ki te kōrero Māori, [ka whakaaro ake], “Tētahi koroua.

    Other ways that they would teach us was actually you would go into a wall. And then cause a lot of people would have the problem of reaching over.

    So, we would go and we would be sitting.

    We’ll get down, and straight back, so that it’s the straight back and down low.

    And that was yeah, and uncle Con he would usually say that to us yeah. “Be low in stance, so your testicles are hanging.”

    You know and you think about it now, and I’ve learnt how to speak Māori, how to you know “ow you dirty fool”.

    Pēhea koe Puao?

    Ngā momo Mātāpono ngā momo pūkenga kua tau ki runga ia koe, he aha pea ētahi.

    What about you, Puao?

    Different values have been bestowed upon you. What are some?

    Kō ngā kaiako i whakaakohia i au e pakeke mai ana, kō taku māmā me taku papara.

    Heoi anō, ko te tū, ko te tū ā Tūhoe.

    Nā te mea koinā noihō te tū i mōhiotia e rātou.

    Nāreira koinā pea wētahi o ngā pūkenga i puritia tonu e mātou, ki roto i te whānau.

    I te mea koinā noihō te tū i mōhio e mātou.

    Engari ko ā rāua akoranga i au e tipu ana i mau tonu.

    Kāre mo te tuku, anā kei te pēra tonu.

    Ahakoa kua te tīni te tū i roto i tētahi atu kapa, kō ētahi o rātou Mātāpono e tāea tonu e au te pupuri i roto i tēnei o ngā kapa.

    Engari, ko ngā mea e tino purutia nei ē au, kō te tino tū a Tūhoe, mē ngā Manawa taki ā Tūhoe.

    Nā te rerekē o ngā mea e hakaina e mātou i ēnei rā, i roto tonū ō Tūhoe.

    Kō mātou pea ngā mea kei te kawe tonū i tēra tū, puta tonu i roto i Te Urewera, engari koinā pea.

    Arā hoki i roto i a Tūhoe, mō te Tūhoe Ahurei.

    Koinā te take i whakatūhia te hui.

    Engari tīmata tuatahi ki te whutupōro, engari i whakatūhia kia tāea mātou te huihui anō, i te mea i puta katoā ngā uri ō roto ō Te Urewera ki te whai mahi.

    A nā te Ahurei mātou i whakakao mai anō, kia whakapakari tonū i te reo, me wā mātou tīkanga, mē te tū ā Tūhoe.

    Engari ko ngā āhuatanga pea, kō ngā akoranga me pēhea te kawe i te Mōteatea, te momo tangi ō te Mōteatea.

    A tē pūkana, ngā momo pūkana.

    Te mau Patū, ēra āhuatanga katoā.

    Koiā ngā akorangā nui te Mau Rākau, tē karangā, mē pehea te kawe i te karanga?

    Te whakatakoto i te karangā?

    Engari kō te reo ake, i roto i te wairua o te whakaputa i te karanga.

    Te wairua o te whakaputa i te Mōteatea.

    Mēna he waiata tangi kāre koe e waiata pēra ia Beyonce.

    Engari kō Aretha Franklin.

    While I was growing up, my teachers were my mum and dad.

    However, our stance was the Tūhoe stance.

    Because that was the only stance they knew.

    So perhaps that was a skill that we retained within the family.

    Because that was the only stance we knew.

    And I still retain the teachings they passed on to us.

     

    I don’t let them go, and it stays that way now.

    Although I’ve adjusted the way I stand to suit other groups, I am still able to demonstrate some of the values they have passed on in other groups.

    But the main thing I have retained is the essence of the Tūhoe stance, the rhythm of Tūhoe.

     

    The things we haka these days, within Tūhoe, are quite different.

    We are, perhaps, the only ones who continue to perform that type of stance, throughout Te Urewera. 

    Also, within Tūhoe, there is the Tūhoe Ahurei.

    That was the reason the event was established.

    It started off as a league [tournament], but the purpose was so that we could continuously meet up, as the majority of the Te Urewera descendants had gone elsewhere to find work.

    The Ahurei brought us back together again to strengthen our language and customs, as well as our Tūhoe performance stance.

    Perhaps some aspects, some teachings are how to carry the traditional chant. The particular sound of the traditional chant.

    The pūkana, the different types of pūkana.

    How to wield a patu. Those sorts of things.

    Those were the main teachings, as well as weaponry, karanga, how to karanga, how to arrange a karanga.

     

    Focusing on the particular sound that comes with the feeling in the delivery of the karanga.

    The feeling in the delivery of the traditional chant.

    If it’s a lament, you don’t sing like Beyonce.

    Nor Aretha Franklin.

    Trills.

    Trills.

    Kē pea.

    Engari koinā tonu ngā mea kei tē mau tonu ahau.

    Maybe.

    Those are the teachings I hold on to.

     

    Ahurei, kōrerohia mai mō ō maumaharatanga ki tō tū ki ngā Ahurei.

    He rerekē, he kaupapa nui tēna kaupapa kōrero.

    Ahurei. Tell me about your memories about your performances at Ahurei.

    That’s a different and huge topic of discussion.

    Kei ā mātou tō mātou ake kapa, tō mātou whanau ake.

    He oritē hoki pea mātou tē whānau.

    He mīharo, ko te whanau. Kō ngā whāea, kō tō mātou Pāpara ngā kaiako.

    E tāea e mātou te tūtaki, te kite anō ia matou anō i te mea hoki i ngā wāhi katoā mātou ē noho ana.

    Nāreira koinā tētahi o ngā kaupapa i whakakao mai ia mātou te whanau, mē te tokomaha hoki ō mātou.

    Engari hē mīharo, kāre mātou i whakāro ake nārurnga i te whanau, te mahi ō te whanau engari te whakakao noa mai ki te haka.

    Engari nārunga i tēra ka kitea mātou i ngā hua i puta mai, kua whakatupu mai wā mātou tamariki ki waenganui ia mātou anō.

    Tērā pea ka taea mātou te hanga tokowha ngā kapa, na te mea e 20 tau mātou ināianei, tō mātou kapa.

    Nā te tokomaha ō mātou kua taea pea mātou ē whā ngā kapa mai i wā mātou pēpi tai noa ki ngā pākeke.

    Te Ahurei i Rotorua, e toru ō mātou kapa i tū, ngā mea pēpe, ana ngā mea tamariki, anā ko ngā mea pākeke.

    Ana kei te panāia mātou i ngā irāmutu ināianei, hei whakatūhia he kapa kaumātua, kāre kau kē.

    Nā reira ko ngā pakeke kei te pakangā atu ki wā mātou tamariki.

    Engari he miharo, he miharo.

    We have our own group, our family group.

    We are perhaps similar, our family.

    It’s amazing. It’s family. Our aunties and uncles are the tutors.

    We can meet up and see each other as we live all over the place.

     

    So, those are sometimes where we can come together as family, and there are a lot of us.

    But it’s amazing. We don’t think we’re coming together just as family, but we come together to haka.

     

    But because of that, we see the good outcomes such as raising our children around all of us.

    We could probably establish four groups, as our group is now 20 years old.

     

    Because there are so many of us we could probably establish four groups, from midgets to seniors.

    When Te Ahurei was held in Rotorua, we had three groups. Midgets, Juniors and Seniors.

     

    The nieces and nephews are pushing for an Elders group but that hasn’t happened yet.

    So, the seniors are going at it with the youth.

     

    But it’s amazing.

    Nō reira kā kōrero tātou mō tēnei mea ngā concerts, aye.

    Tū ai ngā concerts kī Rotorua, hei whakangāhau i ngā tūruhi.

    He aha pea ētahi kōrero? Puao, moo teena momo mahi? 

    So, let’s talk about the konohete, aye.

    The concerts in Rotorua to entertain the tourists.

    What are some discussions around that, Puao? Around that type of work?

    Mīharo rawa atu, i think that.

    Koinā te wā i tino tūwhera ōku karu, i tino ngākaunui au ki ngā mahi.

    I te mea, i runga i te ātamira kō te Waiata a ringa, he poi.

    Engari te Konohēte he Tī rākau, hē Tītī Tōrea, he poi roa, ngā tāonga pūoro me ngā kōrero i puta mai.

    Ahakoa mo ngā Tūruhi, ko au hoki tēra e ako ana, koirā te take o wēra mahi.

    Engari nō tēra wā, i whakapiki ōku pūkenga mo ēra mahi.

    Anā i āwhina hoki i au mō te mahi kaiakō i roto i ngā mahi haka.

    Nā te mea te nui o ngā rauemi hei whakamahi, ki te whakakotahi tētahi hōtaka haka, ko tāea e koe ko enei mahi katoā me ēnei rauemi ki te whakaraakei i te ao haka.

    Te ao haka.

    Ae tika tonu tēra.

    So amazing! Koirā ōku whakaaro.

    That’s where my eyes were truly opened, when I became really passionate about this.

    Because on stage, you have action songs, poi.

    But at the concerts, you have long stick games and short stick games, long poi, other musical instruments and narration.

    Although it’s for the tourists, I was also learning. That’s the crux of that type of work.

     

    Because of that, my skills improved.

    It also helped me as a kapa haka tutor.

     

    Because we had so many resources at our disposal to bring together a bracket. You could do everything with these resources to embellish your haka world.

    Haka world.

    Yes, very true.

    Brons, pēhea koe?

    Whakaraka, Games of dexterity. Mēnā i aro ki te short stick and long stick games, ki tērā momo me tana ātaahua. He aha tāu i whakaako ai ki ngā tourists mō ngā games of dexterity?

    Brons, what about you? 

    If we were to focus on Tītī Tōrea, Tī rākau and the art form and its beauty, what did you teach our tūruhi about whakaraka

    Nā, i te ako tonu au, nē.

    I ngā konohete, kāore e pai mēnā kāore koe e mōhio ki te aha. Ka whiua tikahia koe ki te wāhi hōhonu o te wai.

    Koirā anake te ara e ako ai koe, ka whiua koe ki te wāhi hōhonu, ka kaukau ai.

    Nō reira ka tere ako, nē.

    Nō reira, mō tēnei mea, mō te whakaraka.

    Nā te mea hoki i whakaakona ngā momo katoa, nē.

    I mua i te aro ki te taiaha, ki rākau kē atu rānei.

    Koinei te tūāpapa – me whai koe i tētahi momo pūkenga.

    Ka ako ana koe i ēnei mea, ā, ka tīmata tō kōrero haere ki ētahi tāngata, ka whakamīharo rātou.

    Ka whakamīharo pū atu ki ngā kōrero mō te reretahi o ngā ringa me ngā karu. Ko te raka o ngā whatianga mō te rere o te patu, inā hoki, ka tau te mamae ki ō whatianga.

    Ko ngā momo hoki o te poi.

    I te mea i tipu Pākehā ahau, i whakaaro ake au, ‘He aha ngā tama e mahi nei i te poi? Mā ngā kōhine te poi.’

    Ā, kia ako koe i te hītori mō tērā momo,

    Mō te poi, that once belonged to the males. It was a device to strengthen, so you could better wield the patu.

    Ā, ka tīmata tō ako haere i ngā tūruhi, ka rere ngā pātai.

    Ka tīmata, he pūkenga nui te kōrero, i te mea āe, e tino whakamā ana au, nē.

    Ka whiua ana koe ki te wāhi hōhonu, me tīmata tō kōrero ki te iwi.

    Ka rapirapi koe, e titiro ana koe ki ngā heavens, ‘he aha aku kōrero?’

    Ā, ka aro nui hoki koe i te mea ehara ko koe anake, he hoa hoki kei tō taha.

    Ka pēnei, ‘Kāo kāore anō au kia rite, kāore anō au kia rite.’ Kia tae ki te wā ka whiua koe e rātou.

    Ka whiu noa rātou i a koe, ‘Kei a koe. Ka tū noa au kia kōrero koe.’

    Ā, mōhio koe ki tō mea tuatahi mō ngā mea katoa ka mahia e koe. 

    Ko te mea tuatahi, ka pēnei, ‘Eah i pēnei…’, engari ka pai haere koe.

    Ā, i waimarie ahau i rongonui ōku rangatira.

    Ā, i mōhio hoki ahau he tohunga rātou.

    Āe, kāore au i te whakarongo ki tētahi atu i a rātou.

    Engari, he tāngata anō i tō rōpū konohete i reira, ka kitea rātou i ngā kapa haka, i ngā kapa haka ake o Te Arawa nē.

    He rawe katoa rātou.

    Nā, ka kite koe i ētahi tāngata, ā rātou momo kōrero, ā rātou momo mahi,

    “Ka mahi te makimaki i tā te makimaki i kite ai.”

    Āe, ko au te makimaki, e mahi ana i ngā mea katoa.

    I te mea he momo ahau, kāore au i…

    Arā atu ngā momo kaingākau, kua hara tātou katoa i konā. Kāore ia e paku pai. Ka mātakitaki kapa haka au i ngā wā katoa.

    “Whakawetongia tērā rāpihi.”

     

    Engari i ngā konohete, he wairua anō ki a au, i te mea, i taku tipuranga Pākehā, tae ana ki taku ara haka, ka tipu, ka kuhu au ki ngā mahi konohete.

    I roa te wā kia tae au ki reira.

    I te akiaki mai ia i a au. I pēnei au, e waia kē ana au ki tētahi kaupapa i te tau, nē.

    He whakataetae ā-rohe, ā-motu rānei.

    Well, see i was still learning aye.

    And concerts you can't afford to not know anything.

    You get chucked in the deep end straight away.

    That's the only way you're gonna learn, is you get chucked in the deep end, and then yeah you start swimming.

    You learn quick alright aye.

    So, things to do with dexterity games.

    Because these were all practices that we were taught aye.

    Prior to even looking at a taiaha, or any weapon.

    They were pretty fundamental, you had to have some sort of skill.

    Once you learn the things and you start telling people about it, yeah, they get blown away.

    Especially when it talks about the hand and eye coordination, Dexterity in the wrist aye for the manipulation of the Patu, cause it takes a toll on your wrist.

     

    Then you had poi implements.

    Cause i grew up keha, so i thought aye whats the boys doing with the poi, the poi is for the girls.

    And then when you learn the history about.

    Te poi nō ngā tāne tēra, he rauemī, kia whakakaha ai, kia pai ai te whiu o tō patū.

    And then when you start teaching the tourist, then you get questions after questions aye.

     

    Then you start, the art form of speaking it, yeah cause shy as aye.

    When you get chucked in the deep end and you gotta talk to the people.

    And your scratching, you’re looking to the Rangi Tuhāhā of “what should i say?”

    Like you pay attention too, cause you're not by yourself, you've got other friends with you.

    It's like “Nah i'm not ready yet, i'm not ready yet”. Until the time when it's ready they throw you off.

    They just chuck you in the deep end “It's your turn and I'll just stand here, until you say something”.

    And you know your first one in everything that you do.

    The first ones always like “eah that was” but you get better and better at it.

    And I was just fortunate I had a lot of bosses that were well known.

    And I knew that they were mean.

    Yeah, I'm not listening to anybody else but them.

    But you had your other members in your concert group there, you know you see them all in the Kapa Haka teams, especially the Te Arawa teams aye.

    Their all mean.

    And when you see certain people like.

    And the certain things they say, and the things they do.

    “Monkey say, monkey do”

    Yeah, I was the monkey, I was doing it all.

    Cause i was a freak aye i just didn't.

    Ara atu anō ngā freaks aye, were all guilty we can bloody, She hates it. I play hakas all the time.

    “Turn that bloody rubbish off”.

     

     

    But with the concerts it was a buzz cause i, you know growing up as a keha, then my journey in haka, then it became, then I got into concerts.

     

    Which took a while for me to get there.

    She was like encouraging me, I was like I'm used to a once-a-year sort of a thing you know.

    A regional or a Nationals you know.

    Nō reira i parakatihi haere koe i ngā [hōtaka] konohete i te ako haere koe?

    So, did you go away and practice for the concerts if you were learning?

    I a au i ngā konohete, i te ako ahau i te tohu Paetahi o Ngā Mahi a Rēhia i Taiwere, Te Wānanga o Aotearoa.

    I waimarie ahau ki te ako i raro i a Elsie Rakuraku, Rakema Sincoms, Kimoro Taiepa.

    Me ētahi atu i tūtaki au i roto i ngā tau ako.

    Nō reira, i waimarie mātou he Ngāti Rangiwewehi i reira.

    Ka ako mātou i ngā waiata pērā i a Pūkākī, ka haria mai ngā hoa – Uncle Trev me Aunty Atareta.

    I waimarie mātou i haere mai rāua ki te whakaako i a mātou.

    He tāngata anō ka haere mai ki a mātou, he hunga i whakaakona e ētahi i mate kē, ka kuhu mai rātou ki te whakaako i a mātou.

    Āpiti atu ki ngā mahi konohete, i te parakatihi ahau i taku kura. Ka rumakina au ki ngā mea katoa mō te kapa haka, Māori, ngā mea katoa.

    So, during concerts I was doing my Degree in Māori Performing arts at Taiwere, Te Wānanga o Aotearoa.

    And lucky enough to be tutored by Elsea Rakuraku, Rakema Sincoms, Kimaro Taepa.

    And many others that we were introduced to over the years of studying.

    So, we were fortunate that there used to be a Ngāti Rangiwēwehi.

    So, when we would learn songs like Pūkaki, they would bring in their friends Uncle Trev and Aunty Atareta.

    We were fortunate enough that they would come in and teach us.

    And we had, or we had people that would come in that were taught by certain people that had passed on, they would come in and tutor us.

    As well as going to Concert, I was practicing during the day and my course. I just immersed myself in anything to do with kapa haka māori, anything.

    Kā mau te wehi!

     

    Nō reira, haere tonu ana ki ō kōrua kapa pakeke tuatahi. Puao, ko wai tō kapa haka pakeke tuatahi?

    How amazing! 

     

    So then going over into your first adult teams.

    Puao, who was your first adult team of Te Ao Haka?

    Te Wānanga o Aotearoa ki Rotorua.

    Ana kō Uncle Barton Rakuraku rāua kō Aunty Elsea ngā kaiako i taua wā.

    Anā i tōia mai mātou e taku kaihangā, tautoko ia rātou.

    Anā mīharo ki au.

    I taua wā, he tangata kaingākau hoki ahau. 14 aku tau, nō reira, 14, koirā te wā kia kaingākau rawa atu 

    A e mīharo ki ahau. Ko au tētahi i mahi noa i te mahi ka kīia mai au, ka mahi noa.

     

    I rongo au i te wairua pai i waenganui i te katoa, ā, i reira ētahi i te pakeketanga kotahi ki a māua.

    Engari he whakapakari noa ia mātou i roto i Te Ao Haka.

    Marakerake ana i kitea e tō mātou kaihangā i ēra pūkenga o mātou, nōreira i uru atu mātou ki te āwhina.

    Nā, kia kī anō, ko te haka noa iho

    Te Wānanga o Aotearoa ki Rotorua.

    Uncle Barton Rakuraku and Aunty Elsea were the tutors at the time.

    They brought in my cousin who helped them.

    It was amazing to me.

    Back then, I was i freak too, I was 14 so you know 14 that's the time to be a freak.

     

    Yes, I found it amazing. And I was somebody that just did the mahi when I was told what to do, you just do it.

    I just had a really good buzz with everybody, and the whanau and there was a lot of people also in our age group.

     

    But we developed our skills in Te Ao Haka.

    Obviously, my cousin saw those skills in us and we went in to help.

     

    And again, it was just haka.

    Rawe, kia koe Brons.

    Mean. Over to you, Brons.

    Te Whānau a Tūtawake

    1999, koirā taku kapa pakeke tuatahi.

    I whakaakona e Aunty Emma Rogers and her daughters, Aunty Trivan, Aunty Blife me Aunty Pixie, Piko.

    Ka kuhu mai hoki a uncl Con.

    I waimarie hoki mātou i kuhu mai hoki tētahi o ngā whanaunga nō Waka Huia, your elder, Uncle Billy T.

    Bill Tāngira. He pahi nui tērā.

    I te mea hoki kua haere mai i Waka Huia. Āe, God.

     

    Ahakoa i a mātou ō mātou matua kēkē, he Whānau a Apanui hoki mātou – oh kāo, ko Waka Huia tēnei.

    Nō reira i waimarie mātou i te kuhunga mai o uncle Bill, ko tōna wairua noa, ōna mātauranga.

    Āe, ko te hōhonu o te knowledge, hāngai pū hoki ki ōna rā i Waihīrere.

    Ko tana tae noa mai he mīharo. Ahakoa i tae mai ia i ngā wiki e rua, e toru pea i mua i te ā-rohe.

     

    Ka kuhu tonu mai ia i ngā kūaha.

    Ko te kīanga hoki i ērā wā ko te “Caz”.

    Ka kuhu mai ana ia, “Chur caz, kei te uru mai koe [ki te kapa]? Ka kī mai ia, “Aye?”

    Āna, ka uru mai i te mutunga iho.

    Ka kōrero mai ia ki a mātou kia, mōhio koe,whakamanamana, whakahīhī 

    Kia kī noa mai ki a mātou i te pai noa iho mātou, i a mātou ngā pūkenga, ā, mahia ngā mahi.

    Ko ia tētahi o ērā momo tāne ka kī, “Kaua e kōrero mai. Whakaatu mai.”

    Ā ka pērā mātou.

    Nā, ka kūmea au i te rārangi.

    I te mea ko au te pōtiki, kei muri ahau.

    Mōhio koe, ka whakauru koe i a koe anō ki muri.

    Mea rawa ake, “A koe, haere mai koe ki mua.”

    Ā, i te mea hoki kei te taha au i te rārangi o muri, ka pai ka neke whakamua au. “Kāo, kāo, kāo, haere tonu.”

     

    Kei te hipa haere au i aku mātua kēkē, aye, mea rawa ake mō taku ā-rohe tuatahi 1990, 14, ko au te tangata o waenga mō Te Whānau a Tūtawake.

    Āe, ko au a waenga.

    I muri i tērā, ka pēnei noa au, fah aye.

    Ā, ka kuhu mārika ahau.

    I te mea ko āna kupu whakaihiihi.

    Kāore he aha ki a au mēnā i te kōrero ki te katoa, ko te hāngai ki a au.

    Nō reira, ko te hāngai ki a au.

    I pēnei au, “E hiahia ana au ki te kawe i a koutou katoa.”

    Nā, whai muri i tērā kōrero whakaihiihi, ka puta te taniwha i te rua. Mai i tērā wā, i kī ia, “Whakapau kaha, hoki rānei ki te kāinga."

    Kua noho tērā ki a au mai i tērā wā ki tēnei wā, kia whakapau kaha, whakamanatia, kaua e māharahara mō te aha. Ko te mea nui kia kōrerohia ō kupu, mahia ō ā-ringa, oh āe, kaua e rorirori te āhua.

    Nō reira koirā taku kapa haka tuatahi.

    Kāore mātou i kuhu [ki te ā-motu] i taua tau, engari kāore he aha ki a au. Ko te mahi noa i te kapa haka te whāinga.

    Te Whanau ā Tū tauake.

    1999 was my first senior group.

    And tutored by Aunty Emma Rodgers, and wāna tamāhine.

    Aunty Trivan, Aunty Blife and Aunty Pixie, Piko.

    And Uncle Con would come in.

    And also, we were lucky enough that one of our Whanaungā from Waka Huia jumped in, too koroua Uncle Billy T.

    Bill Tāngira, so that was a big bus.

    Cause you know he had just come from Waka Huia, yeah Atua.

    Even though we had like our uncles, and we were Whanau Apanui, oh no this is Waka Huia.

     

    So, we were fortunate to have Uncle Bill come in, and just his presence.

     

    Yeah, his depth of mātauranga, especially in his days of Waihirere.

    Yeah, just him being there was awesome, although he would have jumped in about 2 or 3 weeks before the regionals.

    Soon as he walked through the doors.

    And because the slang back then was “Caz”.

     

    And soon as he walked in “Chur caz, ah you're jumping in” and he’s like aye.

    Yeah, he ended up jumping in.

    And then yeah had a talk with us, just to you know, be proud, be full of energy.

    Just to tell us that you know, we're perfectly fine and we are capable and just get on with it.

    And he was pretty much one of those fellas that don't show me aye, pretty much “Don’t tell me, Show me”.

    And we pretty much done that yeah.

    And then he would’ve pulled me out of the line.

    Cause i'm the youngest im at the back aye.

    You know you just delegate yourself to the back.

    Next minute “You, you come here in the front.”

     

    And then cause i'm at the end in the back, oh okay i'll come up.

    “Nah nah nah keep on going.”

    And then I’m passing all my uncles, aye next minute my first Regionals 1990, 14 I was the middleman for Te Whanau a Tutauake.

     

    Yeah, I was the middleman.

    And, from then i was just like fuhh aye.

    And then I just really got into it.

    Cause his preps were like.

    I was taking it like i didn't care about if he was talking to everybody, it's just what it meant to me.

    What it meant to me.

    So, I was like “I wanna take all of you”.

     

    And then, cause after that prep I just went hard aye. And ever since he goes, “just go hard or go home”.

    And I've had that thing ever since, till now just go hard, and just go mana aye, who cares about anything as long as you say your words, do your

    actions, and yeah don't look stupid.

    So that's my first Kapa haka team.

    Yeah, we didn't make it that year, but it was nothing to me, just doing kapa Haka was the goal.

     

    Ināianei, he kaihaka kōrua tahi o Te Whānau a Apanui.

     

    Puao, kō koe te kai taataki o taaua kapa, I pēhea ō kare-ā-roto i taua wā?

    And so now you're both current members of Te Whanau a Apanui.

     

    Puao you are the female leader of that group. How did that happen? How did you feel at the time?

    He pātai pai tērā.

    Ka pātai au.

    Nā, me kī pēnei pea, i kite pea rātou i ētahi pūkenga i a au, hei tautoko i a rātou.

    I te mea, he apataki noa iho ahau, he tauhou ahau ki te tāera. I mate ahau ki te whakatangatanga i taku tinana, i aku waewae i te tū, mōhio koe, taku tū ā-Tūhoe.

    Ki te karawhiu. Heoi, ehara i te mea ko taku raru ko te tū hei kaitātaki, ko taku raru ko te tū hei kaitātaki mō tētahi o ngā tino kapa o Aotearoa.

    O te ao.

    Koinā taku āheinga nui.

    Ā, kātahi anō ka tino tau whai muri i taku terenga tuaono, tuawaru rānei me te kapa. Kaitoa, kua tau ngā piropiro.

    Engari, he maringa nui i te mea kua tipu ahau hei kaitātaki, hei kaihaka, hei kaiako anō hoki. E taea ana e au te āwhina i ētahi atu kaitātaki nō ngā rōpū kua whakaakona e au.

     

    Engari he whakamataku anō hoki i te wā kotahi, nē.

    I waia au ki te tū i tētahi hōro, 500 tāngata. Ka tū ki te Matatini, 500,000 tāngata.

     

    Ko te mea nui, kia pai aku mahi.

    Thats a good question.

    I'll ask though.

    Well, I gotta say they may have seen some pukenga that I had that could support them.

    I mean I was just a prosy, you know, I was new to the style, so I had to loosen up my body, my legs from standing, you know my Tūhoe stance.

    To shaking it but being the leader for the kapa wasn't even the problem it was, my problem was being the leader for one of the best teams in New Zealand.

    In the world.

    That was my big shot.

    And I only just got over it like after my 6th or 8th Campaign, with the group, yeah finally got over myself.

    But it's actually been a privilege, and cause i have grown as a leader, as a Kaihaka, as a tutor as well, and I'm able to help other leaders in the Kapa that I have tutored.

     

     

    But it was scary at the same time you know.

     

    I was used to performing in a hall, 500 people. And then go to Matatini, 500 thousand people, you know.

    It was you know, as long as I did a good job.

    I pēhea te wairua i tō Matatini tuatahi ka tū koe hei kaitātaki?

    What was the buzz like in your first Matatini when you led the roopu?

    Mataku.

    Scary.

    Āe. I pēhea tō whakarite i a koe anō?

    Yeah, how did you prepare yourself?

    I noho noa au i tētahi kokonga, mō tētahi mutunga wiki katoa, ka toai, ka toai, ka toai, ka toai i ngā mea katoa me mahi ahau mā te kapa, kia mōhio ai au i te tika aku mahi.

    Me te whakaaro i a au ngā pūkenga, ko te whakatutuki noa ki tētahi taumata tino pai.

    Kia kaua ētahi e mea, “He aha rātou i kōwhiri ai i a ia hei kaitātaki?”

    Engari ahakoa mēnā rātou i pērā, kāhore he aha ki a au. Engari kua tino ngahau i tō rātou taha, ahakoa te mahi nui, te uaua.

    Kua nui ngā akoranga mai ki a au.

    Ka whakatō rātou i te whakaaro e taea ana e au, kāore hoki e mate ki te pātai mai me aha au.

    Engari mēnā he mea i pīrangi rātou kia mahi au, ka pēnei au, “Ka pai, ka ngana au.”

    Nā, rua wiki i mua i te tū ka kī mai, “Oh, māu te traitional chant?”

    “Ka ngana au.” Ka pai.

    Koirā tāku i kī ai ka pātai mai ana rātou.

    I just stayed in a corner, for a whole weekend I just went over, and over, and over, and over everything that I had to do for the roopu, just to make sure that I was doing everything right.

    And that I was capable of doing it, and just really really doing a good job at it.

    Without anyone saying, “Why did they put her as the leader?”

    But even if they did, I don't really care. But I have had fun with them, even though it was hardout and hard.

    But I've learnt a lot from them.

    And they just kind of make me feel like I can do it, without them asking me what to do.

    But if there were things, they wanted me to do i would do it like “Okay i will try”.

    And like you know like 2 weeks before the performance “Oh can you do the Mōteatea?”

    “I'll give it a try” yup alright then.

    That's how my reaction was to them when they asked.

    He mīharotanga nui tēna.

    Brons, pēhea koe mō te āhuatanga ki te tū ki Te Whanau a Apanui.

    Me aha?

    He aha ētahi kōrero akiaki ka tukuna e koe mō te noho roa, mō te ū?

    Mō te pōhiri rānei i ō uri ki te hoki ki te kāinga ki te ako mō rātou anō, pērā i a koe?

    That’s amazing.

    Brons, what are your thoughts regarding standing with Te Whānau a Apanui?

    What does it take?

    And what advice could you give about being loyal, and staying committed.

    Or inviting your uri to come home, to learn about themselves as you did.

    Āe, nā, haere noa mai.

    I te mea, ā, pērā hoki i tērā atu o ō mātou kapa, kei te puare te kūaha i ngā wā katoa.

    Ahakoa ko tēhea kapa, haere.

    Tauira Mai Tawhiti, Te Whānau a Tūtawake, Te Whānau a Apanui rānei.

    Ahakoa kotahi noa pea te maringitanga o te toto Apanui, haere noa mai, ka kore koe e mōhio.

    Ka kore koe e mōhio ka aha.

    Nā, i tīmata taku whakahoki mai i ētahi o ōku hoa i te mea i kī rātou, “Fah, e hiahia noa ana ki te whakamātau.”

    Te hunga i whakahokia mai, nō iwi kē rātou, he kapa ake ō rātou.

    Kua pātaingia rātou kia hoki ki ō rātou ake kapa.

    Ka kī, “Nah, he kapa ake tō mātou.”

    He pūmau. Nō reira he kōrero nui ka tae mai ana tētahi pērā i a Puao, nō iwi kē.

    Ka mate ki te ako anō i ngā mea katoa.

    Ka noho hei kaitātaki. Āe, kua kore au i pohewa.

    Engari, mō ā tātou tamariki kei waho rā e hiahia ana ki te hoki mai.

    Hoki mai. Āe.

    Ko tētahi haurua o te kapa ka noho ki waho i te rohenga ā-iwi.

    Ko tētahi haurua i konei, ko tētahi haurua i waho rā.

    Nō reira, i runga i tērā kōrero, ko te nuinga o tō mātou iwi ka noho i waho ake i tō mātou iwi.

    Ehara i te mea he tokomaha tātou i konei, nō reira ka ākina te katoa kia hoki mai.

    I te mea ki te kore koe e mōhio, koinei te wāhi ka mōhio koe.

    Ko te kapa haka te wāhi kia tūtaki ai koe ki ngā whānau, ngā whānau maha i te wāhi kotahi.

    Koirā tētahi mea o te kapa haka, he whānau koe.

    Ngā hononga, ngā whakapapa ki tō whānau.

    Kāore pea mātou e mōhio ki tērā whānau, engari mā mātou koe e ārahi ki tērā whānau.

    Ko ētahi o tērā whānau kāore e mahi haka i te iwi, ka whai whanaunga ana, ka tīmata tā rātou haere mai.

    Kātahi ko ō rātou pākeke, ō rātou kaumātua ka haere mai ki te kapa ki te mātakitaki noa. 

    Mea rawa ake ko rātou ō mātou ringawera.

    Ka mahi rātou i ngā mea katoa mā te kapa i te mea kei roto rā tā rātou mokopuna, tō rātou whanaunga.

    Nō reira, mēnā koe e mōhio ana he Whānau a Apanui koe, ā, e hiahia ana koe ki te, tuatahi ake, kuhu ki te kapa haka, koinei katoa ngā mea āpiti.

    Whanau, kōina te mea nui tee whanaungatanga.

    Nā mai i te whanaungatanga, ka puea ake tētahi wairua e kaha ana, pērā i ērā atu kapa, kei a rātou tētahi wairua.

    Ā, ka wāhi mōhio koe mēnā kei te rere pai, kāore rānei i te rere. Engari kia hoki mai tētahi tokonui i ōu ake, ka kaha ake tō presence.

    He wairua ātaahua, nē.

    Ko tētahi mea i mokemoketia e au i te kapa haka i te wā o te mate kowheori ko te whanaungatanga.

    Ko te kite ā-kanohi i te family.

    I aha rātou i waenganui i te wiki.

    Tērā pea i pēnei, kāore au i te mōhio.

    Ko te mea e mokemoke nei ngā kapa whānui, ko te kite anō i a rātou whanau.

    Nā te roa o te whakatā, pērā i ērā atu kapa.

    He pēpi hou kua whānau mai.

    I tō mātou kapa, ki taku mōhio 15 ngā tamariki hou, ngā tāpiritanga hou ki te kapa.

    Ko waenga tērā i te kowheori. Nō reira ka wātea ki te tūtaki ki ērā whanaunga o mātou, ngā irāmutu, ngā mokopuna.

    Nō reira, ka haere mai ana ngā tāngata i Tāmaki pea, i hea rānei.

     

    Ka nui ake tō rātou whānau.

    Ā, ka mōhio haere mātou ko wai pū a Te Whānau a Apanui.

    Koinei ahau, ētahi atu anō hoki, e mahi kapa haka nei. Ka haka kia whakahīhī ai te katoa nō Te Whānau a Apanui, nō Te Whakatōhea, nō hea ake rānei.

    Koirā te mea nui ki a au. Kōirā te toa.

    Ko te whakahīhī o tō mātou iwi.

    Ā, he waiata hoki ā mātou.

    “Winning in love.”

    He mea tāpiri noa ērā atu mea

    Yeah well, just get here.

    Yeah cause, and just like our other team the doors are always open.

    Doesn't matter which team you go to, just get there.

    Whether it'll be Tauira mai Tawhiti, Te Whanau a Tuutauke, whether it would be Te Whanau a Apanui.

    If you even got a drop of blood of Apanui just come, you just never know.

    You never know what could happen.

    See i started bringing some of my friends back cause they just like “Fuh we wanna try it out aye”.

     

    These guys that i brought back, they from other iwi that got their own kapa aye.

    And they've been asked to go back to their kapas.

    And they just “Nah, we've got our kapa”.

    And they're just loyal, so that's a bit of a testimony in itself that when somebody just like Puao, different iwi.

    Had to relearn pretty much everything.

    And yeah, come the leader, yeah i can't imagine yeah.

    But for our kids that are out there that want to come back.

    Just come back cause yeah.

    Half of the team lives outside of the boundary; you know of the iwi.

    Half the team live here, half are out there.

     

    So, in saying that, the majority of our iwi that lives outside of our iwi.

    There's not much of us here, so we encourage everyone to come back.

    Because there, even if you don't know, that's just where you're gonna know.

    Kapa haka is a place that you can meet families, so many families all at once.

     

    Yeah, so that's one thing with Kapa Haka, your whanau.

    The ties the whakapapa within, with your whanau.

    We might not know the whanau, but we can direct you to that whanau.

    And then some of those whanau that don't do Kapa haka in the iwi, when they got a relation there, they start coming.

    Aye, then there Pakeke, their Kaumatua start coming to our Kapa, and watching just to watch.

    And next minute they’re our cooks.

    Aye they do anything for us, aye cause their Mokopuna is in there, or their relation is in there.

    So, if you know your Whanau Apanui, and you want to, first of all join Kapa haka, this is what's gonna come with it.

     

    Family. That’s the main thing, kinship.

     

    And from the kinship it just creates a wairua that's strong like every other kapa, they have this wairua.

    And you sort of know when it's off or when it's on. But when you get a lot of your own coming back, your wairua just gets really strong.

     

    And it's a lovely feeling aye.

    And one thing about kapa haka that I've missed during the covid is whanaungatanga.

    Is actually seeing the whanau aye.

    What they've done during the week aye.

    Could be yeah, or i don't know.

    Just something that all Kapa miss is seeing each other, whanau.

    Because of this long gap, and just like every other kapa.

    There's some new babies that have popped up.

    So, I think in our kapa we got over like 15 newborns, well new additions to the kapa.

    So that was during the covid, so we get to meet those relations of ours, our nephews and nieces, our mokopuna.

    So, when other people come in from you know, our youngsters out in Auckland or wherever they maybe you know.

    Their whanau just gets bigger.

    And then we start to really know who Te Whanau a Apanui is.

    And this is why I do kapa haka and many others.

    They would do it to make everyone that's Whanau a Apanui, or Whakatohea or wherever proud.

    And that's the main thing for me, winning eh.

    Making our people proud, and we got songs.

     

    Kō te wikitōria i runga i te aroha.

    The other things are a bonus.

    I runga i tērā, te karore haere i te ao.

    Kia paku kōrero mō tē karore i te ao i mua i tā tātou whakatepe

    Kei a koe te wā.

    On that, traveling the world.

    Let's talk a little bit about traveling the world, before we wrap it up.

    Over to you.

    Ko taku haerenga tuatahi ko te haere ki Ūropi.

    14 taku pakeke nō reira he hararei noa iho ki a au, nē.

    Hararei me te haka, hararei me te haka.

    Kāore au i tino aro ki ngā āhuatanga i te ponitaka i a au.

    Engari, “Wiiii, kei tāwāhi tātou.”

    Engari i tūtaki au ki ētahi tāngata rawe nō ētahi atu whenua.

    Koirā pea taku, nā, i mua tēnei i te 2000.

    He kōtiro pakupaku au i tērā wā.

    Ā, koirā taku haerenga tuatahi.

    I haere ahau ki Ahitereiria mō te Military Tattoo, ā, hoki ai ki Pōneke anō hoki.

    Mōku, ko te whakakanohi i te Māori.

    “Cast it to the world, cast it to all tribes.”

    Nō reira koirā taku whakaaro o te haere ki tāwāhi.

    To showcase the arts of Hinerēhia and Tānerore.

    Engari kāore au i tino aro ki te wāhi i reira rā au. E tūmanako ana au ināianei i pērā au.

    I haere tawhiti noa au ki te hararei.

    Engari he rawe hoki te tū.

    Over to you, Brons. Kua tae koe ki hea?

    My first trip was over to Europe.

    I was 14 so it was just a holiday for me aye.

     

    Holiday and haka, holiday and haka.

    I didn't really take notice of what was happening around me.

    But just “wow we're overseas”.

    But I did meet some, you know, awesome people from different whenua.

    That was probably my, well that was in 2000.

    I was a real young girl back then.

    And that was my first trip.

    I went to Australia for the Military tattoo, then back into Wellington also.

    They were just for me; it was just representing māoritanga.

    You know, whiua ki te ao, ki te rangi ki ngā iwi katoā.

    And so that was my idea of going overseas.

    Ki te whakaputa i ngā mahi a Hine Rehia ā Tāne Rore.

    But i didn't take notice of actually being there, i wish i did now.

    I mean I went all that way just to have a holiday.

    Cool though, performing.

    Kia koe Brons, where have you been?

    Ko taku haerenga tuatahi.

    Nō reira, i a koe noa i ngā konohete, ka tūtaki ki ngā tāngata maha, ā, ko ō hoa katoa kei ngā kapa rerekē o Te Arawa.

    Ki taku mōhio ko te 2001, Te Mātārae i Ōrehu.

    I toa i a rātou ngā ā-motu i Tūranga.

    Tūranga?

    I te mea, ki aku hoa katoa, ko Apanui taku ingoa.

    Ka haere ana au ki korā, “Apanui”.

    I have an English name.

    Engari ka kī au ki a rātou, “Koutou me ngā ingoa Māori, nō te rangatira ō koutou ingoa. Ko au hoki tērā, nō tētahi kaiwhakaari rongonui taku ingoa, Charles Bronson.”

    Hei aha māku tētahi ingoa Māori. Bronson is a high-ranking name.

    Rata taku pāpā i taua tangata rā, kā tapaina te ingoa ki runga i au me taku Tuakanā.

    Kei a ia te Charles kei au te Bronson

    Nā, tētahi o aku hoa i te Mātārae, i te pātai ki ētahi o ngā tama.

    “Oh, e pāpaku ana te puna kaihaka.”

    Nō reira i pātaingia ahau, ka kī au, “Aye? Ka pai.”

    Ā, hei rangatahi i te whakaaratanga ake o Mārārae, i tino hīkaka ahau. Koirā au i tīmata ai ki te mau rākau, ko te mātaki i a rātou.

    I hōhā ōku mātua, i haere ahau ki te taha moana ki te kimi noa i tētahi rākau.

    He maha aku rākau, e whakapipi ana.

    My mum, taku māmā whakaangi.

    Ka kī mai taku māmā, “Ō pūrari rākau kei konei.”

    Heoi, i a au ēnei tau katoa, ka tae ki te wā,

    “Aye, ka wātea taku tū tahi ki a Mātārae.”

    Nō reira i waimarie ahau ki te haere ki Solomon Islands ki te tū ki te Pacific Arts Festival.

    Mai i reira, kua haere au ki Haina me tētahi kapa nō Te Tai Tokerau, Whangārei, a Te Pū Ao.

    I waimarie taku haere tahi ki a rātou ki Haina.

    I tō taha, i haere tahi ki Te Waka Huia ki Ingarangi, ki Kotirana.

    Pāniora, Wīwī, Amerika, Tahiti, New Caledonia, Whītī, Tonga, Hapāna.

    He wāhi anō.

    2011 ko taku haerenga haka tuatahi, ā, ko te whakamutunga ko mua tata i te noho raka, i haere ki Whītī, ki Tonga.

    I hiahia au ki te rere ki reira me te hoki mai i tētahi kaipuke nui.

    Āe, he tokomaha ngā tāngata e hiahia nei au ki te whakamihi.

    Ki te relation, ki a Wētini Mītai Ngātai, tēnā koe i tō whakawātea i a au kia haere tahi ki tō kapa.

    This mischief from Te Whānau a Apanui.

    Te Pū Ao me ō rātou kaiako.

    Ko tētahi atu tangata matua ko tētahi tangata, ko Jamus Webster.

    I tata ai māua ko te whanaunga, nō konei hoki. I te wā ka tū ia hei rangatira mō mātou i Tāmaki Tours. Koirā te wāhi i mahi ai au i ngā konohete, Tāmaki Tours.

    I āhua kite au i a ia, engari kāore au i mōhio ki a ia. I mōhio au ko ia te mēne.

    Well, my very first trip.

    So, as you do in Concerts you meet a lot of people aye, and all your mates there from all the different Te Arawa teams.

    So, i think it was 2001, Te Mātārae I Ōrehu.

     They had won the Nationals in GIsborne.

    Gizzy?

     

    Cause all my mates aye, my names Apanui aye.

    When i go over there “Apanui”.

    He ingo pākeha tāku.

    But i tell them “You know you fullas with the Māori names you were named after Rangatira aye, i am too, im am too, im named after a famous actor Charles Bronson”.

    So, I don't need a Māori name, Bronson tino ingoa tēra.

    My dad really liked that guy. He gave my older brother the first name.

    He got Charles, I got Bronson.

    So, you know, one of my mates he was in Mātārae, and so he was asking some of the boys.

    “Oh, we're a bit low on numbers”.

    And so yeah, the question was thrown to me and i was like “aye okay”.

    And you know as a youngster as Mātārae first come out it was like yeah, that's how I started rākau, watching them.

    My parents used to get hōhā, i used to go on the beach specifically just to find rakau.

    And I had stacks of them, you know stacks of them.

    Taku māmā, step mum.

    My mum she would tell me “Your bloody sticks all over here”.

    Anyway, I had all these years until the day came.

    “Aye I get to perform with Mātārae”.

    And so, I was fortunate enough to go over to the Solomon Islands and perform at the Pacific arts festival.

    And from there ive, went to China with a team from up the Far North, Whangarei ā Te Pūao.

     

    Was fortunate enough to go to China with them.

    Alongside yourself we went over to England, Scotland with, alongside Te Waka Huia.

    Spain, France, America, Tahiti, New Caledonia, Fiji, Tonga, Japan.

    And there's a few other places from.

    2011 was my first time going on a Haka trip, and my last one was just before the covid we went to Fiji, Tonga.

    I wanted to fly over there and come back on a cruise ship.

    And yeah, there's a lot of people I would thank, and them.

    Like the whanaungā Wēteni Mītai Ngātai, thank you for allowing me to go with your team.

     

    Tēnei hiahia nō Te whanau a Apanui.

    And the others te Puao, their tutors.

    One of the main ones is actually a guy known as Jamus Webster.

    So, how I became pretty close with the whanaungā, you know nō kōnei hoki. When he became our boss at Tāmaki tours, this is where I was working doing concerts, Tāmaki tours.

    I sort of seen him before but never actually knew him, I knew he was the man.

    He āhua pai ia.

    He’s alright.

    Nō reira, mai i reira, ko taua akoranga nā uncle Billy T.

    Ka whāia noatia e koe ngā mea katoa.

    He has so many other skills.

    I ngana au ki te āta tō mai i ngā mea katoa i a ia.

    Ko au tērā, nā, ka mātaki i a ia i Te Mātārae, heoi anō ērā atu, “Oh nō Mātārae ia, kei te kōrero ia ki a tātou.”

    I kitea ētahi skills hei rau ki taku basket, nē.

    I te mea, the basket i tīmata hei basket iti, kātahi ka kī haere.

    Me waihanga he kete hou, kātahi ka riro te basket.

    Ka kī haere ngā mea katoa.

    I waimarie ahau i mōhio au, me whakapau kaha i ngā wā katoa me tēnei tangata.

    Kāore au e mōhio mēnā i te kā au i ngā wā katoa.

    Engari, ko ia i hari i a au i taku haerenga tuatahi.

    Ka tūtakina ētahi tāngata pērā, ka hiahia ki te hari i a koe ki ngā haerenga. Ka kore rawa au e wareware. Ā, e hiahia ana au ki te eke ki te taumata mōu.

    Kaua noa iho mō ngā mea Te Whānau a Apanui, engari mō te mana, te mana o taua tangata.

    Ka whakapau kaha koe, kāore he aha ko wai kei ō tahataha e haka ana, ka whakapau kaha, kotahi rau paehēneti. Māna, āe.

    Māna, ka noho kāinga, ka noho kāinga tūturu.

    Ka pātai mai te tini hoa, “Ka pēhea tā mātou haere ki ērā haerenga?”

    Ka kī au, “Whakapau kaha. Me kaha. Kia kaha ki te waiata, kia kaha ki te waiata, kohia hoki ētahi atu pūkenga.”

    Mōhio koe, e ako ana i ngā wā katoa, i ngā wā katoa.

    Tē taea e koe te kī mai e mōhio ana koe ki ngā mea katoa. Kei te ako tonu ngā tohunga, e ako tonu ana.

    Nō reira, he wāhi nui tō ngā konohete i taku ao haka.

    Waihoki ngā tāngata, i taku tipuranga i te ao haka.

    Ahakoa competition, ahakoa non-competiton. Koirā ngā mea pai, non-competition.

    Heoi, āe.

    So, from then I sort of had that thing from Uncle Billy T you know.

    You just bloody mimic whatever.

    Ara atu anō ōna pūkenga.

    You know I would try to squeeze what he had to offer as well.

    I was the, you know, watching him through Mātārae, and yet all the others “oh theres a fella Mātārae he's actually taking us”.

    I got some more pūkenga to put in my kete aye.

    Cause the kete started off with you know, little kete then that got full.

    I got to get a new one, then the kete’s gone you know.

    Everythings getting filled up.

    And i was just fortunate enough that i know just go hard with this fulla, be on all the time.

    I don't know if I was on all the time.

    Yeah, I just knew that he took me on my first trip.

     

    You get people like that, when they take you on trips. I'll never forget that, and I want to do the best I can for you.

    Not only for things, for I'm Whanau Apanui so yeah, you know the reputation and more so his reputation.

     

    You just go hard, it doesn't matter who you haka with, you just go hard, go hundy or yeah.

    Or stay home, you end up staying home.

     

    A lot of friends used to go “How do we get on these trips?”.

    “I just go hard eah, just go hard, sing your heart out, Haka hard out, yeah pick up the pūkenga on the side aye”.

    You know, you're always learning, always.

    You can’t tell me you know everything, even the masters are learning aye, they are still learning.

     

    So, concerts are a very instrumental part of my Kapa Haka life.

    And everyone that’s got to do with the growth of my Kapa Haka.

    Whether it be whakataetae,whether it be whakangāhau, those are the best ones is the whakangāhau.

    But yeah.

    So, Haka does take you around the world, aye Puao?

    Nō reira, ka hari te kapa haka i a koe ki te ao, Puao?

    Well, every time that, cause my dad, he grew up in that era where “That’s not going to get you anywhere”.

    So, the first trip that I went on, he was the first person I rang.

    And then I’ve done it every time, every single trip and now he’s become accustomed.

    You know, mē ōna reo tiotio.

    “Where are you going now?”.  You know?

    It's not even a Kia ora or a hello.

    I just want to remind him that “you told me this wouldn't get me anywhere, and now I'm going to reminding you until”….

    Yeah, until his day comes, I'm still gonna remind him that Kapa Haka gets you anywhere.

    Yeah, calls me a “Tin a**” at the times, yeah, all the time.

    Nō reira, i ia wā ka – i te mea ko taku pāpā i tipu i te wā i kī, “Kāore tērā e paku hari i a koe ki hea.”

     

    Nō reira, ko te haerenga tuatahi i haere ai au, ko ia te tangata tuatahi i waeahia e au.

    Ā, kua pērā ahau i ia wā, i ia haerenga, ā kua waia ia ināianei.

    Mōhio rā, in his irritated voice.

    “Kei te haere koe ki hea ināianei?”

    Kua kore he ‘Kia ora’, he ‘Hello.’

    E hiahia noa ana au ki te whakamahara i a ia, “Nāu te kōrero ka kore tēnei e paku hari i a au ki hea rānei. Nō reira, ka whakamahara au i a koe, tae noa ki te wā ka –“

    Kia tae ki tōna rā whakamutunga, ka whakamahara au i a ia, mā te kapa haka koe e hari ki te ao.

    Ko te “Tin a**” tana kī mai i aua wā, i ngā wā katoa.

    Hei whakakōpane ake ia tātou kōrero I tēnei wā nei.

    He aha ētahi kōrero akiaki e toru hei tukunga ki ā tātou ākonga e mahi ana, e hiahia ana rānei ki te kuhu ki te ao haka, ki te whai rānei i tēnei hei ara mahi?

    Kā tīmata Kia koe Puao.

     

    Whakapau kaha, ūpoko pakarū.

    Mē te whakātu i ngā mahi anō nei e tino ngākaunuitia ana e koe, anā kō te reo hoki tēra.

    Nā te mea kō ngā mahi katoā kei roto i te reo.

    To end our kōrero at this time,

    What’s 3 pieces of advice that you could give to our ākonga who are, who want to take part in Te Ao Haka?

    Or follow this as a pathway.

    We’ll start with you Puao.

     

    Work hard, don’t give up.

    Perform like you love it. And the language.

     

    Because everything is done in the language.

    Ae, kia ora.

    Yes. Thank you.

    He maha ngā kupu e taea ana, heoi.

    Tētahi mea hei akiaki i ngā tamariki ki te kuhu ko te,

    Whakamātau!

    I te mea ka kore koe e mōhio ki te kore koe e whakamātau.

    I te mea, he iwi whakamā tātou nē,

    Te iwi Māori. Kāore tātou e mōhio ki ō tātou painga.

    I’m a bit jealous i te mea kāore mātou i waimarie kia noho te kapa haka hei kaupapa ako.

    I tōna tikanga kua pēnei i te 20 tau ki muri. Nō reira, MOE, i hea koutou? I mahue ko mātou.

    Heoi, āe, pērā i ngā kōrero a Puao.

    Kuhuna, rumakina tō ao ki ngā mea katoa o tō tātou ahurea, i te mea he ātaahua.

    Ka haria koe ki tāwāhi. Engari kaua ko tērā anake, ka whakatipuria te māia.

    Ko tētahi mea e mōhio ana au, ko te tū i mua i te tangata ki te kōrero, that’s difficult.

    Mō ētahi e whakamā ana, ko te kapa haka tētahi mea e whakaputa ai tērā mea i roto i a koe.

    Ka huri te whakamā. Ka tū tutahi, he nui, engari ka iti haere pērā i tēnei te iti, pēnei i te keha.

    Ka taea te kōpēpē, ka whiua. Mea rawa ake, kei taumata kē koe.

    Kua nui tō māia, kua kore tētahi e kata.

    Mā tō māia, ka tuwhera tō ao.

    I te mea kua pērā rawa te maha o ngā ara, kāore i te paku hātakēhi, pono, kāore i te paku hātakēhi.

    Āe, kōrero i mua i te tangata, uaua. Kapa haka.

    Ka panaia tō whakamā. Me āhua ako, engari ka tae koe ki tērā wāhi, ka tae koe.

    Manawaroa.

    There’s many words you can say but…

    Something to encourage our kids to get in there is just.

    Try it!

    You know, cause you don’t know unless you get in there.

    Cause we’re pretty shy people you know.

    Te iwi māori we just don’t know what we actually got going for us.

    Kā harawene tēnei, because we weren't fortunate to have a subject “Kapa Haka” come on.

    This should have been around 20 years ago so the MOE, where you fullas been we missed out.

     

    But yeah, pretty much what Puao said.

    Just get in there and indulge yourself in everything that our culture has to offer, because it's beautiful.

    It takes you on trips overseas but that's not the only thing, like get so many, it builds courage.

    One thing that i know, that one thing is getting up in front of people and talking, he uaua rawa atu tēra

    And for people that are shy, Kapa haka is another thing that brings that thing out of you.

     

    The shyness becomes, like when you're first there it's like huge, but then it ends up being this little like, a flea.

    Where you can squash it and flick it away, and then next minute you're the most you know.

    You've got so much confidence that it's not funny.

    And then from your confidence your world is open.

    Because you've got so many avenues it's not funny, seriously it's not funny.

    Yeah, public speaking hard, Kapa haka.

     

    It gets that shyness out of you and takes a little bit of mastering, but you'll get there, you'll get there.

    Resilience.

    Well, koinā ā tātou kōrero mo tēnei wā.

     

    Tēnei wā?

    Well, that’s the end of our discussions at this time.

     

    This time?

    Mo tēnei wā.

    E reka ana, e reka ana.

    E reka ana te rongo ia kōrua kōrero, ā kua tau anō te mauri ki te whakarongo atu kia kōrua.

    Mē ō nekehanga me ō pūkenga i whanakē ai i roto i ngā tau ki tēnei mea Te Ao Haka.

    Kia kōrua tahi he nui rā te mihi kia kōrua.

    Tēna rā kōrua.

    Tēna koe

    Cuzzy

    For this time.

    How pleasant that was, how sweet.

    It was so pleasing to hear your stories, the life essence has been settled by listening to you both.

    Your talents and skills which were developed through many years of te ao haka.

     

    To you both, thank you.

    Thank you both.

    Thank you.

    Kahi.

    Outro: 

    Bronson Gage displays the stance of Te Whānau a Apanui with his hands on his hope. Camera shows all angles of Bronson in his stance. Screen goes black with Bronson leading a haka in the background. Camera then focuses in on Bronson and Puao standing inposition to perform their haka. Bronson and Puao perform their haka with Ihi, Wehi and Wana.

    Music starts in background and brings to focus a sign saying “Nau mai, haere mai, you are entering the tribal lands of Te Whānau a Apanui”. Camera then shows image of beach side and water breaking on shore and rocks. Camera then pans across water with rocks and land in the background. Waihau Bay lodge and Waihau Bay store buildings shown as visual then changes by passing a house with mountains in the background. A visual of driving along the coast through trees with the road ahead. Visual then changes to a horse on the side of the road with mountains in the background. Quick visuals of grass and then back to the jetty with a small community of houses in the background. Camera then pans down the jetty with visual change to crossing a bridge then the river with mountains in the background. Images of trees and back to the beach side with a tree and houses in the background before black screen appear with the words “Ministry of education, Te tahuhu o te mātauranga.

    [ Accordion ]

    Interviewer: Hukarere Greening

    Interviewee: Maku Ropitini

    Location: Kahungunu

    Intro: 

     

    [With music playing in the background]  

    Being displayed are video images Waitangi Treaty Grounds and northland beaches. Next is a a close up of the wharf beach and the road sign for Kaikohe. Videos of monuments from the north and the whare Runanga at Waitangi Treaty Grounds then back to beaches and a close up on the carved pou. Flicking from images of carvings and beaches with sunsets. Then there is a short snippet of a mural on a street with people walking before shooting to a shot of the Mangamuka Radio station, then the welcome sign in Kaitaia and the road sign of Doubtless Bay and Bay of Islands ending with a shot of the Tino rangatiratanga flag before the final shot of Waitangi with Te Tai Tokerau title. The intro closes off with text “Te Ao Haka” accompanied by the Te Ao Haka logo. 

    Interview commences with the camera focused on husband and wife Chris Henare and Sandra Waitai Henare sitting in a studio setting with interviewer Rawinia Moeau-Pirini sitting across from them beginning the conversation. Throughout the interview the shot go back and forth between interviewees and interviewer. 

    Reo Māori

    Reo Pākehā

    Kia ora Koka Maks

    Hello, Aunty Maks

    Kia ora taku tamāhine

    Hi, my girl.

    Ko wai koe? No hea koe?

    Yes. Who are you and where are you from?

    Kia ora tātou, um ko Maku i te rangi Huata Ropitini ahau.  Ko Hemi Pititi Te Okanga Kahutapere Huata ah toku papa no te uri o Kahungunu ki Wairoa, Kahungunu ki Heretaunga. Ko Ngamoni Huata tōku māmā, nō te uri o Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao. 

    Tūhourangi ka moe a Rongomaipapa o te waka Takitimu, o te waka Te Arawa anei te hononga māreikura

    Greetings all, I am Maku i te rangi Huata Ropitini. My father is Heni Pititi Te Okanga Kahupatere, from Kahungunu ki Wairoa and Kahungunu ki Heretaunga. My mother was Ngamoni Huata from Tūhourangi Ngāti Wahiao. Tūhourangi sleeps with Rongomaipapa of the takitimu canoe,

    the Te Arawa canoe here is the connection.

    Ngā mihi, rawe. Kia ora, awesome, Nau mai ki tā tātou kaupapa o Te Ao Haka i tēnei wā nei. Me te mihi anō ki a koe, kua whai wāhi mai ki te tuari i ō korero, i ō mōhiotanga ki tēnei ao, o te ao kapa haka o te ao haka.

     

    Thank you, awesome. Welcome to Te Ao Haka. Thank you again for finding time to join is today,to share your knowledge around kapa haka and Te Ao Haka.

    Ana ke ha

    Choice

    Rawe. Nā reira ka paku kōrero tāua e pā ana ki ō wheako, ō maharatanga tuatahi o te ao haka. He aha ō maharatanga tuatahi o te ao haka?

    So we're just going to have a little bit of a conversation about your experiences, your memories, earliest memories of Te Ao Haka. What are your earliest memories around Te Ao Haka?

    1967. Koirā te wā i puta ai ahau ki tēnei ao. I pērā taku kōrero nā te mea i whakatōkia kētia te kākano. I te mahi kē ōku tīpuna i ngā mahi kapa haka. I whānau mai ahau ki roto i ēnei mahi.

    Nā reira ā mohoa nei, koirā taku whakatipuranga. Koirā tā mātou i mōhio ai. 

     

    Nā, ko taku koroua ko Te Kenana Wi Te Tau Huata, ko ia taku tino Ko taku koro tēnā, he karakia āna i te mea ko ia te minita. Nāna i tito a “Tūtira Mai Ngā Iwi” me “Whakaaria Mai” aua mea katoa. Kātahi ka mārena ia ki tētahi wahine ātaahua, ki a Ringahora Hēni Ngākai Ybel Tomoana, ko tōna pāpā ko Paraire Tomoana, he kaitito i tōna wā.

     

    I konei kē rātou i mua i taku taenga mai, Pōkarekare Ana, E Pari Rā. 

    Kātahi ka mārena taku pāpā ki tētahi wahine ātaahua nō Tūhourangi, ko taku māmā tēnā. I te whānau o taku māmā, ko ia te kaiwhatu piupiu i tōna wā. 

     

    Nāna ngā piupiu i hanga, ngā pari, ngā tīpare, ngā rāpaki, ngā poi.

    Nā reira i kitea i ngā rangi tōmua te puoro, te tito, te karakia, te hanga poi, te kākahu. Nā reira i taua wā ko tāu noa iho he tū ki te atamira, he whaiwhai haere i te tangata, anā, karawhiua

    Oh, be 1967. That's the day I came out to this world. When I say that, it's because the seed was already planted. All my tūpuna were already doing it. They were doing kapa haka. And this is what I was born into So right through, that's  been my upbringing. That's all we've known Yep, 

     

     

    so my koro, that's Te Kēnana a Wī Te Tau Huata. That's my tino, That's my koro, And my koro, he came with prayer, because he was the minister. He composed Tutira mai nga iwi and whakaaria mai and all that kind of thing And then he married a beautiful woman, Ringahora Hēni Ybel Tomoana, And her father was Paraire Tomoana who wrote songs at that time.

     

    And they were already here before I came. Pōkarekare ana, E pari ra And then my father married a beautiful woman from Tūhourangi which is my mum. And with my mum's family, she came with she was the puipui maker in those days.

     

    She made the puipui She done the pari. She done the tipari, the rapaki, the pois. And so I think with the earliest days for us came music, came composition, came prayers, came poi making, clothes. So by that time, you just got on the stage, followed anybody around, bang, in there

    Kia kōrero tātou e pā ana ki tō māmā me tō pāpā. I pēhea tā rāua whakapakeke i a kōrua i te ao haka? I pēhea tērā? Ko wai rāua?

    Let's talk about your mum and dad. How did they bring you up into Te Ao Haka?

    What was that like? Who are they?

    Ko rāua taku ao. He kaipuoro taku pāpā i aua rā, me te aha, e kōrerotia tonutia ana e te tangata ā mohoa nei. Ka kōrero aku whanaunga, te whānau Wehi, mō taku pāpā. Ko ia tētahi o ngā tino kairakuraku i aua rā. Kei te kōrerotia tonutia ia, 37 tau kua taha, kei te kōrerotia tonutia ia.

     

    Anā, nāna hoki taku māmā i ako. Ka whakaoho taku pāpā i a mātou tahi karaka i te ata, ka kī mai,

    “Hei, hei, hei, he rangi tāku. Matike! Ka pai. Māu tēnei. Māu tēnei. Karawhiua tēnei, karawhiua tēnā.” Ka mukua ō mātou karu, ka homai he rama, ka whakakāngia, ka kī mai, “Anei. Anei tō hopuoro. Tīkina atu te ipu rā, huri kōarohia, arā tō hopuoro.”Āe. Koirā tō mātou whakapakeketanga. 

     

     

    He pēne tō Pāpā, ko Sequioa te ingoa. I tū hoki a “He Toa Takitini” i aua rā. 

    I whai wāhi atu a Māmā rāua ko Pāpā ki a Uncle Bill Kerekere, e ora tonu ana i taua wā. Me Uncle Bub rāua ko Aunty Nen anō hoki. I noho hoki a Uncle Irirangi Tiakiawa ki tō mātou whare. I pērā hoki a Sonny Kepa. Nā reira ko tō mātou whare, he whare e pātōtō ai te tangata, ka tuwhera mai ngā tatau, nau mai haere mai. Āe. Ko tātou tērā. Kia hanga tūmatarau tātou.

     

    Āe. E pērā ana hoki ō mātou whare ināianei, me te aha, ka whāngaihia te iwi. Whāngaihia te iwi, whāngaihia te kapa, whāngaihia te tangata.

     

    Engari koinei ō rātou momo pūkenga, i te wā i a mātou, ko te 3… 4. (E kōrero ana mō ngā taki puoro)

     

    My world. But my daddy was a musician. And those days and people still talk about it today.

    Like my cousins, the Wehi whanau, they talk about my daddy. He was probably one of the

    best guitarists in those days. And people still talk about him. 37 years later, they still talk about him. 

     

     

    And then with that came up my mum. And so I used to teach my mum. You know my dad, he used to get us up. One o'clock in the morning, he goes, hey, hey, hey, I've got a tune. I've got a tune. Get up. Right, you hit this note. You hit this note. You bang that. You bang that. We just wiped our eyes. And he used to give us a lamp and put it in. He goes, here, that's your microphone. You go and get that pot. Just turn upside down. That's your microphone. So that's how we were brought up. 

     

    Dad had a band. It was called Sequoia. They had He toa takitini they were around. Dad and mum were with Uncle Bill Kerekere. He was around then. Uncle Bob and Auntie Lynn, they were around. Uncle Iri Rangi, Taki Awa, he lived with us. Sunny Kepa, he lived with us. So our house was the bit of the knock, knock, and the doors open. you're welcome, yep, that's us. Let's make magic happen. 

     

     

     

     

    Yeah, so in our houses are like that today. And with that, it was always feed the people. Feed the people. Feed the people. Kapa, feed the people. 

     

    But you know, these just go like this. But in the old days, it was three, four.

    [HUMMING]

     

    Wehi nā

    Oh, wow

    Āe. I ēnei rā ka 18, 16, 12, hika, hē noa iho taku kaute. Āe. Engari kua huri te tāera. I te wā o māmā rāua ko pāpā, he ōrite ngā waiata a te katoa, a ia kura, a ia kura tuatahi, kura tuarua. Katoa ka waiata i a Tūtira Mai Ngā Iwi me Whakaaria Mai, ko Me He Manu Rere tā mātou poi. Ko Tōia te waiata. Ko te haka rongonui katoa ko Ka Mate, nā reira i mōhio whānuitia i Aotearoa. I ēnei rā nei, hika, he kounga, ka uru mai a Michael Jackson me tēnei tangata, ka uru mai ngā waiata rekereke. He pai te huri o ngā mahi kapa. Engari me mātua hoki ki te ōrokohanganga.

     

    Yeah, nowadays, they've got one, eight, 16, 12. Oh, heck, I can't even count myself. But the style of it has changed. And so when mum and dad were around, every kura, every school, every primary, secondary school, we all sang the same thing. Everyone would sing Tutira mai nga iwi. Everyone sang  Whakaaria mai. Everyone sang, our poi was Mehe Manurere. You know, when you come to Tōia. that was the song. The most famous  haka was Ka mate. Everybody in the whole of New Zealand knew it. Nowadays, who can they get flash? Michael Jackson comes in,  this fellow comes in, and then reggae music comes in. So the change of kapa is good. But always go back to where it started.

     

    I whakaako ō mātua i ētahi kapa i aua rā? I omaoma rānei koe i ngā rārangi?

    Were your mum and dad tutors of even any teams back then? Do you remember running 

    through lines?

    Āe, i pērā rāua. Ko rātou ko tōku māmā, ko tōku pāpā, ko Kirimaku Kihi. 

    I haere ahau ki Fraser High, ka kī au ki taku pāpā, nā te mea ko Hoana taku ingoa nōku i te kura, ko Maku-i-te Rangi Hoana tōku ingoa. He kore nō te Pākehā I mōhio ki te whakahua i taku ingoa. Nā reira ka karangahia ahau ko Hoana. Āe. Nā te mea kāore ahau i pīrangi kia Maki, kia Maku Nā reira ko Hoana. Kātahi ka haere mātou ki Fraser High. Ko māmā rāua ko pāpā ngā kaiako, me Kirimaku. Ka kī ia, “Maku, haramai, mahia mai tēnei.” Ka kī au, “Pāpā, kia karangahia ahau ko Hoana?” Ko tāna, “E hia ō tau?” Ko tāku, “14.” Ka kī ia,“Tika, e 14 te roa o taku mōhio ki a koe. Ko Maku tō ingoa. Ka mutu ki reira.” Anā, i pērā. 

    Ko tā mātou poi tuatahi ko “Tīmatangia Te Puea e” kua 40 tau ināianei.

     

     

    There was my mum, my dad, and Kiri Maku, Kihi. So I went to Fraser High, and I said to my dad, because at school,  my name was Hoana, because my name is Maku i te rangi Hoana So because the Pakekura say my name, so they call me Hoana. Because I didn't want Maki or Maki, so it was Hoana. Then we went to Fraser High, and mum and dad was the tutor along with Kiri Maku And I said to my dad, he goes, Maku, come and do this. I was going, dad, can you call me Hoana? And he goes, how old are you? And I was going, 14. And he goes, that's right. I've been with you 14 years. Your name is Maku. It will stay like that. So that's how it was. And then that's when our first poi then was "Timatangia Te Puea e . . ." So you know, that's 40 years ago now.

     

     

    Āe. Rawe

    Yeah, Mean

    Āe, koirā noa tā mātou i mōhio ai. E tū, waiata. Waiata, kai, hoki mai

    And that's all we knew. Just get up, sing. Sing, eat, come back

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    Kāore mātou i haria ki te papa tākaro me aua mahi. I ako noa mātou ki te tunu kai. Ka tū, ka waiata. 

    Koirā tō mātou whakapakeketanga

    Yeah. So we didn't have the

    go to the park or do that. It was just we learnt how to cook. We just get up, just sing

    Ko ngā tau tōmua o ngā 70 tērā, nē. I pēhea te mahi haka i aua rā? Ngā tau whitu tekau, ko māmā rāua ko pāpā ngā kaiako. I Fraser koe

    We just get up, just sing. So it was just the upbringing. So there would have been the early '70s then.  What was Haka like back then? '70s, mum and dad tutoring, you at Fraser?

     

    Mōku i taua wā, ko ngā puoro i taua wā ko te 3.. 4 i kōrerohia, ko te rekereke rānei

    Well, you know, for me, the music at that time, it was either 3/4, da, da, da,

    da, da, da, like I said before, or it was reggae

    Te rekereke?

    Reggae?

    Te rekereke. Koirā anake te momo puoro ka whakarongo rā koe. Ka haere mai ana koe ki to mātou, mēnā kāore koe i te waiata, i te tito rānei, ko te rekereke anake te puoro ka whakarongo rā koe. I te mea i taua wā, i ora te iwi i ngā titonga a Bob Marley

    Reggae. That's the only music you listen to So when you came into our house, if you're not singing or you're not composing, the only other music you're listening to is reggae. Because at that time, Bob Marley's lyrics brought life to our people.

    Nā reira ka whakaohohia koutou e pāpā i te tahi i te ata

    So your dad woke you up at 1 in the morning?

    Mātou katoa.

     

    All of us. when he came up with the tune,

    composed something

    Nā reira ka whakaritea e ia te rangi, ka mahia mai he titonga, he aha te wāhi ki a koe i te whānau i te wāhi ki ngā titonga?

    when he came up with the tune, composed something,What was your role in the family with those compositions

    Taku keo, ko ahau te tangata reo niko.

    Ko māmā kei te waiata i te reo matua, ko ahau te reo tōiri. Kua kore i taea ināianei. Ko tā taku tungāne he patō nā te mea i ākona ia e pāpā ki te whakatangi pahū. Ko taku tungāne, he ingoa kounga tō taua momo reo, ka kīia he reo mārū i ēnei rā. O āe. Āe.  Pareiha me taku tuakana, ka noho ia ki kō

    Oh, my god, I used to be the part person So mum sing lead, and then I'm singing soprano. Can't do it now, though, but anyway, in those days, I was the soprano. My brother used to tap because my father taught him how to drum. And my brother was—there's a flash name. They call them baritone or something. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Fraeya And then my sister, she used to sit there.

     

    Āe. Kāo, engari ko Aunty Ringa he wāhi tōna.… he tūranga?

    Yeah. No, but Auntie Ringer had a-- But she had a role

    Ehara ia i taua momo tangata. Ko ia te tangata mahi kākahu. E pērā tonu ana ia ināianei

    Yes, she had a role. So she wasn't that person. 

    She was the kakahu person. Yeah. Which she still does today

    Rawe.

    Cool.

    Āe.

    Yeah

    E rua ngā kapa i ākona e ō mātua, ko wai aua tīma, ka mutu, nō tēhea tau?

    So mum and dad taught two teams. Who were those teams? And what year was that?

    E rua ngā kapa i Kahungunu. Ko tētahi ko The Rastas, koirā te ingoa i tapaina ai e pāpā ko ngā Rastas. Ka kī ia, “Ka whakatau au i tō koutou ingoa kia tae rā anō tātou ki te whakataetae.” I te mea i taua wā, i Kahungunu nei, he makawe rinorino ō ia tangata i te tīma, waihoki, katoa i rata ki a Bob Marley. Nā reira ka tapaina ki te ingoa The Rastas. Ko Waipatu, ko Matahiwi me Kohupātiki ngā marae kāinga. Tokorima nō tēnā marae me tēnā marae I Kahungunu. I aroha nui taku pāpā ki a Kahungunu. Koirā tana ngākau. Ko tērā atu kapa i kī katoa i ōna whanaunga nō Wairoa. 

     

     

    Nā reira e rua ana kapa i whakatūria. I taua wā ko te ingoa o Te Matatini ko te Polynesian Festival.

    1983. Nā reira i Waikato taku pāpā, ka kī mai, “Hoake tātou.” “Kei te haere tātou ki hea?” “Ki Wairoa.” “Ki hea?” “Ki Ramoto.” Ko tāku, “He aha kei reira?” Ko tāna, “He whenua taurikura.” Ka

    tae mātou ki Ramoto, ka kī au, “Kāore he paku aha i konei.” Ka kī ia, “He whenua taurikura tēnei.” Ka hoki au ki reira i ēnei rā. Kāore tonu he paku aha i reira. Engari i reira ōna whanaunga. 

    Kāore tētahi i pīrangi whakaako I ōna whanaunga. Nā reira ko tā pāpā “Māku aku whanaunga e ako.” Koirā hoki ngā kōrero mō The Rastas. Ā mohoa tonu nei, aua tāngata katoa, neke atu i te 60 tau te pakeke ināianei.

    Ko tā rātou, “Hei, ko koe te tamāhine a Heemi rāua ko Ngamoni, nē?” Ko tā rātou, “Nā tō pāpā

    mātou i ako ki tēnei (e waiata ana).” Ka waiatahia tonutia e rātou. Ko tāku, “Ah taputapu kē koe.”

     

    There were two teams in Kahungunu. One was called the Rastas. That's what dad called them, the Rastas. He said, I'll figure it out when we get to the competition, what your name's going to be. Because at that time here in Kahungunu, every single person in their team had red locks, and they were all into Bob Marley. So he called them the Rastas. They were actually based  in Waipatu, Matahiwi, Kohupatiki, and they were like four or five different ones from different marae here in Kahungunu. Because my father just loved Kahungunu. It was his heart. And the other team was all his cousins from Wairoa. So he had two teams, and he put them together.

     

    And at the time, Matatini was  called the Polynesian Festival, 1983. So dad used to be in Waikato, and he goes, come on, we're off. Where are we going? To Wairoa. Where? Te Raumoto. I said, what's there? And he goes, paradise. We get to Te Raumoto? I said, there's nothing here. And he goes, this is paradise. You know, I get back there today. There's still nothing there. But his cousins were there So he was the one-- nobody wanted to teach his cousins. So my dad said, I'll teach my cousins. Yeah, I'll teach my cousins. And then same with all the Rastas. You know, even today, all those fellows, they're about over 60 now. They go, hey, you hear me? And I'm one of these girls. And they go, you know, when your father taught us this. ' Anei rā ngā iwi e' And they still sing them. I said, oh, you're neat.

    Taputapu kē.

    You're neat

    Taputapu kē koe. 

    Āe. Heoi anō, 1983, te 23 o Pēpuere, i haere mātou i Waikato ki Kahungunu mō te whetiwara nui, anā, ka aituā taku pāpā. Ka mate taku pāpā. I paku kō atu i Cambridge. Kātahi ka kī mai taku māmā, “Mauria atu taku hoa rangatira ki Waikato i mua i te haerenga mai o Kahungunu.”

     

    Nā reira ka aro tonu te iwi ki te whetiwara. Mutu ana, i haramai ia tīma ki te poroporoaki i taku pāpā. I tuku ngā tīma katoa i aua tau rā i ā rātou tū ki taku pāpā. I nui rawa te manuhiri i tō mātou whare. He hononga piritata tō taku koro ki Te Atairangi Kaahu. Heoi anō, ka haramai a Aunty Ata ki te whare. Kotahi te pātai a taku māmā ki taku koro, i te mea e taitamariki tonu ana taku māmā, e 33 ōna tau. Ka kī atu, “Kotahi anake taku tono, anā, kia noho mai taku hoa rangatira ki konei he kore nōku e mōhio ki te taraiwa.”Nā reira ka kī a Te Atairangi Kaahu ki

    taku koroua “Mauria mai tō tama ki Taupiri, mā Waikato ia e manaaki.”

     

    Nā reira i nehua taku pāpā ki Waikato, ki te maunga. Nāna i kōwhiri te wāhi e takoto nei taku pāpā.

    Kātahi ia ka kī ki taku māmā me taku koroua, “Nā runga i ō mahi māku, e Wi, mauria mai tō tama ki Tūrangawaewae.” Nā reira ka haere mātou ki Tūrangawaewae, he mōhio nōna ka haere katoa mai te Polynesian Festival.  Ka haere mai ia pahi, ka karawhiu ngā pahi katoa i ā rātou hōtaka. Ka haere mai ngā pahi o te motu. He ātaahua. Nā reira i taua wā, ā, mō te 37 tau i whai ake, kua tae atu ahau ki te Koroneihana. Ka tū noa, ka noho noa, ka āwhina mēnā e taea ana te pērā. 

     

    He wā ōna ka tukuna aku tamariki ki te kīhini. Nē, “O Whaea ka kuhu mātou ki te kīhini.” Koirā taku aroha ki te kī atu, “Tēnā koutou, Waikato, i tā koutou manaaki i taku pāpā.” Āe.

    Yeah, but anyway, 1983, February the 23rd, we traveled from  Waikato to Kahungunu the big festival. And my dad had an accident. My dad passed away. And was just outside of Cambridge. And then my mom said, take my husband to Waikato before Kahungunu comes.

     

     

     

    Yeah, so everyone carried on with the festival. Every single team after that festival came to farewell my dad. Every single team in those years performed to my dad. The manuhiri got a bit too big for our whare. My koro had a very close relationship with Te Ataarangi Kahu. Anyway, Auntie Ataarangi, she came to the house. And my mom asked my koro one thing because my mom was young, Thirty Three And she just said, all I ask is my husband stay here with me, because I can't drive. So Te Ataarangi Kahu said to my koro, bring your son to Taupiri, and Waikato will look after him.

     

     

     

     

    So my dad's buried in Waikato, just up the hill a bit. So she chose where my dad was going to go. And then she said to my mom and my koro, for the work that you've done for me, we bring your boy to Turangawaewae. So we went to Turangawaewae, because she knew the whole of the Polynesian Festival was coming. And every bus came in, and every bus performed their whole bracket. Every bus came in from the whole of the motu. It was stunning So since then, for 37 years, I've been going to the koroneihana, and just to stand there, just to sit there, help wherever I can. 

     

     

     

     

     

    Sometimes now I put my kids into the kitchen, and say, oh, whaea, we'll come in the kitchen. And that's just my aroha to say, thank you, Waikato, for looking after my father. Yeah,

    He rawe tēnā, tā te kuīni Māori kuhu atu me te manaaki atu i tō pāpā. Ki runga o Taupiri

    Well, that's awesome, eh, for the Maori queen to come in and look after your dad

    I whai wāhi taku tipuna koroua ki te whakawahinga o Te Atairangikaahu

    My grandfather, we, he was part of the crowning of Te Ataarangikahu

    Wehi nā

    Its scary

    Ka mate taku pāpā, ka hoki tonu taku koroua ki Waikato. Ko tāna mai, “Kei te pai koe? Kei te pīrangi kuhu mai?” Ko tāku, “Kāo, kāo, e koro, ka hoki au ki te kīhini ki te āwhina i te whānau” Ko tāna, “O.” Ka uru atu ahau, i taua wā i te ora tonu a Bill Tini. Aunty Arini Tini. Te whānau Raumati. I te kīhini tonu rātou i taua wā. Āe. 

    Nā rātou te kīhini i whakahaere i ia kuhutanga atu. Ka kuhu atu tēnei kōtiro nohinohi. Ko tā rātou, “O, anei e haere mai nei. Anei te mokopuna a Wi. Ka haere mai i ia tau.” Ko tā Koro, “Haere mai koe ka kai tahi ai ki a māua ko Te Atairangikaahu.” Ko tāku, “Kāo, ka kai tahi ahau ki te iwi, ka āwhina noa atu.” Nā reira ko tāku noa he tatari. Nā taku māmā mātou i āki ki te whai i ō mātou raihana. Nāwai, 

    ko ahau te kaitaraiwa a taku koroua

    And then after my father died, Koro would still--go back to Waikato. He'd say to me, you all right? You want to come in here? And I said, no, no, Koro, I'll just go in the kitchen and help the whanau. He goes, oh, and you know when I used to go in, at that time, there was Bill Tinney was around, Aunty Arani Tinney, the raumatis, they were all around in the kitchen then. Yeah, they used to actually run the kitchen. And every time I used to go in, There'd be this little girl coming. And I'd go, oh, here she comes, here comes Wīs moko. She always comes in every year. me and Te Ataarangikahu?, I said, no, I'll just live with the people. I'll just help. So I just used to wait, because Mum made us get our license. And then I became my Koro's driver.

    Raihana pepa?

    Paper license

    Āe. Āe. Raihana pepa. Āe. He kāri iti noa iho. Ināianei, e toru kē ngā tūāoma

    Yeah. Yeah, paper license. Yeah, just one little card now. Got to go through three stages

    Nā reira he kairakuraku rongonui a Koro Hemi?

    So Koro Hemi was are nowned guitarist?

    Āe

    Yep

    Āe. Tērā ētahi maharatanga mōna e whakatangi ana i te rakuraku mā te hia kē nei tāngata i muri i te ārai i te atamira

    Yep. There were memories of him strumming the guitar up for however many people, standing at the back of the curtain and on the stage

    Āe, ko tana kōrero, “Nōu ka whakatangi mai, patua ngā aho katoa, ia aho.” I taua wā i te noho mai ki tō mātou a Irirangi Tiakiawa. I karangahia ia ko Uncle Iri. Kāore au i mōhio ka rongonui ia ā tōna wā. Ko Uncle noa iho ia. 

     

     

    Ko Sonny Kepa hoki tētahi i noho mai ki tō mātou. I noho mai, i noho ki te tēpu. Ko tā rātou, “Hei parata, parata, me pēnei tātou.” Ko tā Uncle Sonny, “Hei, kāo e tama, kia pēnei kē.” Kātahi a Uncle Iri ka kī, “Hei, hei aha tāu, Tūhoe.” Ko tāna, “O, hoihoi Te Arawa.” 

    Āe. Engari koirā ngā momo kōrero. Ka kī tēra atu, “E ai ki a Kahungunu, me mahi tahi.” 

     

     

    Nā reira ko Uncle Sonny Kepa ka aro ki te reo, i aua rā. Nā taku pāpā ngā āhuatanga puoro, anā, ko Uncle Iri ka tiki atu i te patu. Ka tīkina he pārekereke, ka karawhiua i waho. Ko ahau kei te whakaaro, “Kei te aha kē ia?”

     

    He used to say, the best thing about it, when you play, make sure you hit every single string, every single string. And at that time, at Stonemata, at that time before that happened, was Iri Rangitiakeawa. We just used to call him Uncle Iri. I knew he was going to come famous later. But you know, that was just Uncle. 

     

    Sonny Kepa, he was another one that lived with us. So they still live. And they still be at the table. Composing. They go, hey, brother, brother, we do this. You know, and then Uncle Sonny would say, hey, no, boy, we do it like this. And then Uncle Iri will say, “hey, Never mind your's Tūhoe" and he goes, "oh, keep quite Te Arawa" Yeah, but that was the conversation. Yeah. And then the other one would go, Well Kahungunu would say, he's what you do, together. Yeah. 

     

    So then we used to have Uncle Sonny Kepa actually doing the reo at those days. My dad was doing the music. And Uncle Iri used to just pick up patu, used to pick up a jandal and swing it around outside. And he's going, what's he up to?

     

    Āe, rawe

    Yeah, mean.

    Koirā te wā i piri atu ai taku tungāne, a Pareiha ki a ia

    And then that's when my brother, my younger brother, Prea, he got attached to it

    Ka whai haere i a ia

    And he used to follow him.

    Āe. I whai atu ia. Ko tā Uncle Iri he piki ki ngā rākau. I kō ētahi. He taiohi nōu ka teitei ake. Nā reira ka peke ia, kāore au i mōhio he ingoa Māori ō aua mahi. Ka kīia i ēnei rā he peruperu. Āe. Tūwaewae. Aua mea katoa. Kua whai ingoa. Nō mai mai ērā. Nā ngā tīpuna i whakarite mai. Ā mohoa nei, kei ngā kura. Ko tō mātou whakapakeketanga tērā.

    Yeah, he followed him. And then Uncle Iri just used to be, jump over our trees. You know, some were there. And you know, because you're young, got a bit higher, so he jumped. And then I didn't know they had Maori names to it. Nowadays, they call them Peruperu Yeah, tuwaiwai. Yeah. All those kind of things. You've got names to them. So they've been here way before. Our tupuna set those. Nowadays, they're in schools. But it was upbringing, you see

    Āe.

    Yeah

    Ko te reo te wāhi ki a Uncle Sonny Kepa. Ko tā taku māmā he tunu. Ka tonoa ana ia ki te waiata, ka kuhu mai ia.  I tunu noa iho ia. Ka kuhu mai, āe. Ka mahia te mahi. Ka puta anō. I tino whai wāhi ia ki te kapa nōna ka kī ki taku pāpā, “Kāo, kāo, me pēnei kē te poi, e tama.” Koinei te tū. Āe

    Yeah. You know, because Sonny Kepa, he used to do the reo. My mum just used to cook. And when they wanted her to sing, then my mum would come in. Yeah. Yeah, she's just cook, come in. Yeah, do her bit. Go out. Yeah. So she really got involved with the kapa. And she said to my dad, no no, this is how the poi goes, boy. This is the stance. Yeah. 

     

    Nā reira he aha te awenga o Koro Wi ki tō ao haka?

    So what influence did your koro Wi have on you in your te ao haka world?

    Nō taku pāpā ka takoto ki Taupiri, i uaua ki taku koro te hoki mai ki Kahungunu, he taitamariki nōna. Ka hipa te rua tau, ka hoki mai ia ki Kahungunu. Ka kī ia ki taku māmā, “Ngāmoni, kua tae te wā e hoki ai ahau ki te kāinga.” Ka kī ia, “Ka pai, e Wi.” Koirā ā rāua momo kōrero.” Ka hoki mai a Koro ki Kahungunu. Kotahi wiki i muri mai, ka waea ia ki taku māmā, ka kī atu, “Ngamoni, tukua mai

    tētahi o ō tamariki hei whakamaharatanga ki taku tama.” Ko tāna, “E Wi, e kore au e tuku I aku tama, engari ka tukua ki a koe tētahi o aku kōtiro.” Nā reira anei ahau. 37 tau kua taha.

     

    Ooh. So it was-- when my  father laid at Taupiri, it was hard for my koro to come back to Kahungunu because he was only young. After two years, he came back to Kahungunu. He said to my mum, Ngamoni, it's time for me to go home. And she said, OK, Wi. So that's how they used to acknowledge each other. Koro came back to Kahungunu. One week later, he rings my mum. And he said, Ngamoni, I need one of your children to come to remind me of my boy. And she said, we, you're not having my boys, but you can have one of my girls. So here I am, 37 years later.

     

    I pēhea te pakeke ake me tō koro?

    What was that like, going up in your koro?

    I uaua i te tīmatanga. I te mea ko ahau he kōtiro piri ki taku māmā.

    Āe. He kōtiro piri ki taku māmā. I pakeke ake taku tuakana ki konei i mua i a au.

    Āe. Kātahi ka hoki ia ki te kāinga. Āe. Nā reira I uaua ki a au. Ka ako au i taku koro, ko ahau te kaitaraiwa. Ka whakakā ahau i te reo irirangi. Ko tāku i rongo ai ko (Io Nui, Io Roa, Io Te Mataaho). Koirā aku haerenga i te waka.

     

    Haere ai au me taku koro ki ngā wāhi katoa, ko tāna, “Haramai. Ka haramai koe ki taku taha.”

    Nā reira i pērā. Ka tohia a mea tamaiti, ka mārenatia a mea whānau, ka nehua a mea whānau, ka iriiritia a mea pēpi, ka whakatuwheratia a mea marae. Āe. Nāna te nuinga o ngā marae i whakatuwhera, puta noa pea i te motu. Āe. Kahungunu. Waikato. 

     

    Koirā taku whakapakeketanga. Ko tāna, “O kei te pai koe” “Āe.” Ko tāna, “Ka pai. Kei te nui te penehīni?” Ko tāku, ‘Āe, mā Io tāua e kawe, e koro.” Ko tāna, “Ka pai, ko te mea nui me io, kaua ko I O.”

    Koirā ngā momo puoro a māua ko koro. 

    Ka kī ia, “O, ka pai, āe.” Kua kōrero mai ia mō āna titoranga. 

    Ka hipa au, ka pātai atu ki a Koro, “Koro, he aha te takenga o Tūtira?” Ko tāna “I hui au ki taku whānau ki Ramoto.” Ko tāku, “O āe.” Ko tāna, “Kia kotahi atu ahau ki ngā kōrero.” Ko tāku, “Ka pai.” Ka kī ia, “I te hokitanga ki te kāinga, ka raru taku waka ki Lake Tūtira.”

     

     Nōku ka pērā, ka whakaaro ahau, ‘Me pēhea e whakakotahi anō ai i taku whānau?’ “Kia tapatahi, kia kotahi rā.”

    Nā reira koirā te takenga mai o Tūtira. Ko tāna i aro ai ko koe, ko au, ko kōrua, ko tāua. Ināianei kua māua, ko.. nō hea kē tēnei? I ahatia a kōrua? Āe. Āe. Āe. Nā reira kua kite au kua huri hoki te reo. I ngā rā o mua, ko te reo ko te kapa. 

     

     

    Ko te reo ko te puoro. Ināianei kua kounga. Āe. Kua whai Panekire me taua kaupapa rā i konei me te pouaka whakaata ki kō me Te Karere ki konei, he mea pai tērā. Ka kite koe i te kokenga me te whakawhanaketanga o te tangata. Te takenganme te ahunga, me kī. I te mea kei konei tonu rātou.

     

    A bit hard in the beginning because I was like, mummy's girl. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was mummy's girl because my sister was brought up here before me. Yeah. But then she came home. So it was a bit hard for me. But when I did come, well, you know, then I learned from koro. I became the driver. So you know, once they put the radio on, all I heard is--SINGING IN MAORI] So that was my car ride.nSo I went with koro everywhere. And he says, come on. You come with me.  

     

    So I went with koro everywhere. You know, he blessed this child. He married that family. He buried that whanau. He christened that baby. He opened that marae. So he opened the majority of marae, probably throughout the whole of the moti too. Kahungunu, Waikato. 

     

     

     

     

    So that was my upbringing. And he goes, oh, you kei te pai? Yep. And he goes, right. We got enough gas? And I go, yep. Iho will get us the koro. And he goes, well, just as long as it's Iho and not i-o. So that was mine and koro's music. Yep. He said, all right, yes. Because I-- and then he's telling me stories about how he did his composition. Yeah. So you know, I go past and I go to koro. Koro, how did that tutira come about? And he goes, well, I had a hui of my family in Ramoto. I said, oh, yeah. He said, you know, I'd cut the chase. I'll just go straight there. I said, OK. And he said, but anyway, on the way back, I broke down. Like tutira. 

     

     

    I said, And he said, when I broke down there, and I says, how can I bring my family back together? Kea tapa tahi, kea kotahi ra. So that's how tutira came about. That's how tutira mai came about. You know, his was about ko koe, ko au, ko kōrua, ko tāua. Now it's got like Maua Ko. When did they come along? What happened to Korua? Yeah, yeah. So I find the reo's changed too. Because in our days, the reo was kapa. 

     

    The reo was music. Now they've gone flash. Yeah. They go, look, it's panekire, and all that thing happening here, and TV going there, and Te Karere Which is good, because you can see the progression and the development of where people have come from and to where they're going, or where they're going to, I should say. Because they ain't going anywhere

     

    Nō hea ana rangi?

    How did he come up with his tunes?

    Ko tāna he patō i tana wae.… ka hāereere haere. Ka tirohia te whenua, anā, ka “(e waiata ana).” I titiro ia ki ngā maunga me te āhua o ngā maunga. He rite tonu tana titiro ki te awa, kātahi ka, “(e waiata ana).” I te mea he whakapapa ōna. I aro nui ia ki te whakapapa. Āe. Ka, “(e waiata ana).” Nā, ki te titiro koe ki Wairoa, ka pēnei te āhua, karekare ana. Koirā i hua ake ai te (e waiata ana), engari ki te titiro koe ki Waikato, (e waiata ana). Ka titiro ia ki aua āhuatanga.

     

    He must have been tapping his folks. He used to travel all around. Look at the whenua. He used to go, oh. He used to look at the mountains, the shape of the maunga. He used to always look at the awa. He used to go, wai roho pu pu ho ho, nenge nenge ma tangi ra. Because he could whakapapa in. For him, it was all about whakapapa. Yeah. He goes, oh. He piko he taniwha. So if you look at Wairoa, awa goes like this, a bit rough.

    Mm. He rawe tērā, nē.

     

    Āe. Koirā ngā momo i torona ai e taku hoa rangatira, nē. Ka kī mai ia ko mātou tana whenua, hau, me te ahi. Āe. I te mea e kōrero ana mō ngā āhuatanga. Āe. I karapotia ia e te taiao. Koirā tā taku koro i kite ai. Ka hoki mai ia, ka, “(e waiata ana.)”. Toru karaka i ia ata, ka oho taku pāpā, ka takina tana whakapapa. Ka whakahua i ngā ingoa o āna tamariki katoa me ō rātou hoa, ngā mokopuna katoa. Āe. Ka tatari au ki taku ingoa, “Kia mateoha te whakahua. Kia kaha, e hoa.”

    Yeah, because I think my husband, that's where he adopted it from, you see? Because he started calling us his earth, wind, and fire. Yeah, because it was about the elements. It was his surrounding. It was his environment. It's something that my koro saw. Yeah. And he'll come back and go, oh. 3 o'clock every morning, my koro would get up. And he'll do his whakapapa. He'll name all his kids, all their wives and their husbands, all the mokos. Yeah, 3 o'clock every morning, never miss. Never miss. Yeah, I used to wait for my name. Say it with love, koro. Say it with love. Get up, my friend.

    He tū motuhake tāna? He tū ā-Kahungunu nei? E kōrero ana au mō ngā tū ā-haka.Te tū a Kahungunu, a Waipatu rānei? Māna? 

    Did he have a particular stance, a kahungunu stance? When we-- you know how we do haka stances? Yeah. Tu, Te tu ā Kahungunu, or Te tu ā Waipatu, or?

    Nōku ka kī atu ki taku koroua, “O, Koro.” Nā te mea i kapa haka au ki Waikato, ki Te Arawa, ka pātai au ki a koro, “Koro, he aha te tū o konei?”

    Ko tāna, “Koinei tāku e mōhio nei. Kahungunu whakaparatī, whakaparatī. 

    Nā reira ka haka ana koe, me tū tika. Kaua e piko. Me mārō. Te ure o Kahungunu whakaparatī, whakaparatī.” Ko tāku, “Ka pēhea te wiri, e koro?” Ko tāna, “Kia pēnei te wiri, me rite ki ngā tāne. Me tōtika ngā matimati. Kia piri ngā matimati. Kia kotahi te whānau.” Koirā te take i pērā ai te wiri. Kāore e kapu te āhua. Kāore e pēnei. Kāore e pēnā. Tē aro i a au he aha tēnā, heoi anō. Nā te mea me tōtika. Me piri te whānau.

     

    when I said to my koro, oh, koro. You know, because I've always done kapa haka in Waikato. Then I do kapa haka in Te Arawa. And I said to koro, koro, what's the stance here? And he says, well, this is what I know. Kahungunu. Whakaparati, whakaparati. So when you haka, you're upright. Upright like that. Don't bend down. We're kahungunu. Stand upright. Yes. Stiff as. Te uri o Kahungunu. Whakaparati, Whakaparati. But what he did say, he said, what about the wiri koro? And he says to me, the wiri is like this, straight. Make sure that you're the same as the men. Straight like that. Fingers like that. Keep the fingers together. Keep the whanau together. Yeah. That's why we're wiri like that. We don't cup. We don't do this. We don't do that. Straight up. But anyway, just straight up and down. Keep the family together. 

     

    Me ngā tāne hoki?

    Men as well?

    Me ngā tāne hoki.

    Men as well

    Wehi nā.

     

    Kia piri te whānau. Kia tōtika. Me he karetao mātou. Ko tāna “Me rite ki te karetao,” ka kī ia, “Ki te kī mai te tangata he karetao tātou, me mahara koe, Kahungunu whakaparatī, whakaparatī.”

     

    Keep the family together. So straight. We were always robotic. And he said, we're robotic. He said, you know when people say we look like robots? He said, you must remember. Kahungunu, whakaparati, whakaparati.

    He karetao.

    Was a robot

    Kāo, he mārō.

    No, stiff

    Rawe. Nā reira ko Koro Wi tēnā me tana tū. He aha te awenga o tō tipuna koroua ki te ao haka o konei? O Paraire?

    Cool. So we had Koro Wi in his stance. What influence did your great grandfather have on te ao haka around here, Paraire?

     

    Paraire Tomoana, tau ana te tū. Tae ana ki ngā waiata (e waiata ana). He karetao tonu, engari ka kounga haere, ka piu haere, engari he piu tau nei. I pērā. Ehara i te piu a Te Tai Rāwhiti. Tino kore nei. Kāore i puta i te kēti, i noho ki te kēti, e keo. Kia piri tonu te whānau. Āe. 

    Nā reira koirā te wāhi ki a Paraire, (e waiata ana). Ko tāna, “Ka waiata ana koe, kia mateoha te waiatatia. I titoa tērā mō taku hoa rangatira.” 

    Paraire Tomoana, his was very graceful. And we were the singing. [SINGING] Still the same robotic, but we started putting a bit of flash and putting a bit of swing in. But a graceful swing. Yeah. Not a Tairawhiti swing?, Was it like that. Not out the gate like that. No, we stayed in the gate. My girl kept the whanau together. So Paraire, yeah. So he gave that. [SINGING] And he said, when you sing it, sing it with love. Because I wrote it for my wife.

     

    Mm. Nā reira ki te whakapiri koe i aua tū e rua me aua pūkenga rā, ka hua ake te tū a Kahungunu ake? Mai i a Wi Te Tau rāua ko Paraire Tomoana?

     

    So you have those two types of haka, stances, expertisecoming together. And then you get the stance of Kahangunu.Yeah. 

    From Witetau and Parare Tomoana

    Koia.

    Yep

    He mīharo tēnā, nē?

    It's awesome, eh?

    Āe. Ka mutu pea. Ka kī hoki au ki te tangata, “Ko te taha tikanga, kawa me te karakia nā te taha Huata.”

    Anā, “Ko ngā mahi puoro me te tito waiata, nā te taha Tomoana.” Engari te haka, nā tō mātou māmā tērā. Ko ia tō mātou māmā. Ko ia tō mātou pāpā. Ko tō mātou māmā tērā.

     

    Yeah. It's pretty cool. Yeah, because I say to people too, I say, you know, our tikanga, our kawa, and our karakia comes from our huata side. And I said, our music, our composing, that comes from our Timoana side. But our haka, that's our mother. that's our mother. She's our mother. She's our father. That's our mother

    Nā reira he aha te awenga? Arā te taha Huata, te taha Tomoana, te taha o Nana Monchi. He tūmatarau, Kurangaituku?

     

    Yeah, what influence was that then? You've got the huata side, the Timoana side, then you've got Nana Monge's side. Well, you know, magic happened. Kurangaituku.

     

    E mea ana koe. Ko Kurangaituku. Nā, mōku, ka hoki au ki Tūhourangi. Āe. 

    Mōku, ehara mātou i te kapa, he hapū kē. Ko mātou tērā. I waimarie mātou i pērā tō mātou whakapakeketanga mai.

    Yeah, kurangaituku is right. [LAUGHTER] But you know, yeah, but so me, I go back to Tūhourangi. Yep. For me, we're not a kapa. We are hapu. Yeah, that's what we are. We're just taki that we're brought up like that. 

     

    Nā Mauriora Kingi hoki koe i whakaawe?

     Yeah, and you had the influences of Mauri Ora Kingi.

    Āe. I te wā i a mātou, i whai wāhi mātou ki a Uncle Sonny Kepa, ki a Uncle Iri. Kātahi ka waihape atu a māmā ki Rotorua, anā ka huri ki a Te Kepa Marsh rāua ko Mauriora Kingi. Āe, nā te mea i mate tōmua taku pāpā, i noho te tokorua rā hei iho pūmanawa mō aku tungāne. Nā reira e 15 ngā tau o taku tungāne, nā rāua ia i tango i te kura, ko taku tungāne tērā, ko Tūhoe. 

    Ko ia te kaiwhakairo a te iwi. Ko ia te kaitiaki i ā mātou taonga katoa, ngā taiaha mau rākau. Āe. He whare taonga tōna.

     

    Yeah, so in our days, there was-- so there's Uncle Sunny Kepa. There was Irirangi-- oh, Uncle Iri. And then there was--then when my mum moved back to Rotorua, then it became Kepa Marsh and Mauri Ora Kingi.And because our dad died at a young age,those two became a very strong father figure for my brothers. So they actually pulled my brother out of school at the age of 15, my brother Tuhoe. Wow. And he became the carver of our people. Yeah. So he's actually like the holder and the caretaker of all our Taonga, all our Taiaha's, all the Maurakas. Yep. Boyfriends got his own museum

    He aha ō rāua āhua? Ō Mauriora rāua ko Te Kepa?

    What were they like, Maori Ora and Te Kepa? 

     

    O, kāore e taea te makarauna nē. Ko taua āhua tonu rā, koirā te whakapakeketanga, ko tā rātou parāoa me te pata tērā. Ka noho koe ki te tēpu, ka whakarongo kau atu ki a rāua. Āe.

    Ka inumia e rāua te inu whakamāia. Ka whakarongo noa koe ki ā rāua kōrero, rawe ngā kōrero. Nā te mea he motuhenga. 

     

    Koirā ngā momo kōrero i aua rā. Āe. “Anei, parata, Tarawera.” “E kāo, parata.” Āe. Koirā ā rāua kōrero. Waihoki, i kaha rāua ki te whakaū i tā Tūhourangi mau ki te tū. I te mea i ahu mai tā mātou tū i ngā ngāwhā. Ko tāna, “O ka waiata anake mātou mō mātou anō.

     

    Ka kōrero mō ngā ngāwhā me te take e pērā ana tēnā puna me tēnā puna. Ko tātou te kapa o te takiwā. ” Āe. Koirā tā te tokorua rā, anā, ka ākona e rāua taku tungāne.  Āe. Ka mutu pea. Nā rāua ia i ako. Ko ia tā rāua kaitaraiwa. Nā reira ko māua ko taku koro, ko taku tungāne, ko Tūhoe rātou ko Te Kepa, ko Mauriora, ko ia tā rāua kaitaraiwa. 

     

    Nā reira i ako ia i aua mea katoa. “Haria māua ki kō, e tama. Kia rite māua kua waea atu ki a koe.” “Ka pai.” Anā, ka tukuna ngā whakapapa ki a ia. Kei te pērā tonu ia ā mohoa nei. Āe, taku tungāne.  Āe. Ka noho atu, ka patō. Āe.

     

    Oh, well, you know, you can't muck around with that. Same thing, upbringing. That's their bread and butter. You just sit at the table and you just listen to them. Yeah. Yeah. They have a bit of courage, juice. You just listen to their kōrero, but neat kōrero, because it's real. Because that was the conversation in those days. 

     

     

    You know, this, oh, brother,  you know, tarawera, oh, no, no, brother. Yeah. So that was their kōrero. And then they made sure that we as Tuhourangi maintained our stance. Yeah. Because our stance comes from all the ngawha's Yeah. He goes, oh, when he's thinking about ourselves, you know,

     

     

     talk about all the ngawha's Talk about why that pool's like that, and why that pool's like that. Why are we the Rikokapa? Yeah. So that's what those two brought, and they trained my brother. Yeah. Yeah, they trained him. He became the driver. So I went from me and my koro, and my brother Tuhoi went to Te Kepo Mauriora, and he became their driver. 

     

    So he learnt all of those. Drop us off there, boy. We'll ring you when we're ready. OK. And then they'll just give him whakapapa. He still does that today. Yeah. Yeah, my brother. Yes, it's their taps, yeah

     

    Nā reira ko aua iho pūmanawa katoa o te ao haka ka kotahi mai, ana, ka whakaako kōrua ko tō tungāne ki Kahungunu nei, kia kōrerohia tērā ināianei. Kia kōrero tāua mō tā kōrua ko tō tungāne tū ki mua i ō tamariki me te whakaako atu.

    So using all of those ihopu manawa and te ao haka, and then coming together,and then you and your brother teaching here in Kahungunu, talk about that part now. Let's get into you and your brother standing in front of your kids, teaching them

    I roa au i konei. I tonoa a Tūhoe kia haere mai i Te Arawa ki Kahungunu ki te whakaako i ngā mahi whakairo. Nā reira koirā i haramai ai taku tungāne. 

    Ka haramai taku tungāne, ka hūnuku mai ki tōku whare, ka pātai mai, “Tuahine, he aha ō mahi?” Ko tāku, “He whakaako kapa haka noa iho. Koirā tāku i pīrangi ai hei mahi māku. Kei te pīrangi au ki te whakaako kapa haka” Ko tāna, “O, ko hea te wāhi e whakaako kapa haka ana koe?” I taua wā i te whakaako au ki Hastings Boys and Girls, Iona College, Havelock College, Flaxmere, Te Aute, Hukarere. 

     

    Ko tāna, “E ono ērā kura.” Ko tāku, “Āe.” Ka haere atu ahau ki mea kura i te 9, ki mea kura i te 10, ki mea kura i te 11, ki mea kura i te 12, anā, hei te toru karaka kua tangi mai te pere. Kua mutu ngā mahi mō te rā.” Ka kī atu au, "Kei te hia hono mai koe? Me whai tāne ahau.” Ko tāna, “I nē?” Ko tāku, “Ko ahau kei te whakaako i ngā tama ki te haka, me ngā kōtiro ki te poi” Ka kī mai ia, “Ka pai.” 

     

     

    Nā reira ka haere tahi mai taku tungāne, ko māua tēnā. Ka tomo māua ko taku tungāne, ko Tūhoe ki te kura. Ka titiro ia, nā te mea kua haere mai i Te Arawa, āe, i tō māua iwi, i tō māua hapū, me kī.

    Ka kite ia i te momo tū. Ko tāku, “Pēhea ō whakaaro?” Ko tāna, “Me whakapiki tāua i te taumata o te iwi.” Ka kī au, “Ana, kia pērā tāua. Me tīmata ki ngā tamariki. Arā, i mōhio au koirā tō haramai. I te mahue i a au tētahi āhuatanga..” Ka kī mai ia, “Āe.” 

     

     

    I taua wā, nā māua ko Tūhoe ngā kura katoa I Heretaunga i ako. E rua anō ngā whānau, ko Keita Tuhi me tana hoa rangatira, me John Matthews e whakaako ana ki Ahuriri. Kāore māua i mōhio he whakataetae i konei. I pīrangi noa māua kia whakatūria ngā tamariki ki mua ki tētahi whakaminenga, ka karawhiua ai mō te hemo tonu atu. 

    Nāwai, ka puta tētahi whakataetae. O, ka pai. Ka whakatūngia rātou.

    Koirā tētahi mea hei ako mā māua ko taku tungāne, nē, te whakataetae. Ehara māua i te tāngata whakataetae. Kāore māua i pakeke pērā mai.

     

    So I was here for a while. Tuhoi was asked if he could come from Te Arawa to Kahungunu to teach them whakairo. So that's how my brother came. And when my brother came here, he came to live with me, and he said, sis, what do you do? And I was, OK. Oh, I just teach kapahaka. That's all I want to do. I just want to teach kapahaka. And he goes, oh, you teach kapahaka. So at the time, I was teaching Hastings Boys and Girls, Iona College, Havelock College, Braxtree, Te Aute, Hukarere. 

     

     

     

     

    And he goes, that's about six schools. And I go, yeah. So I just go there at 9, then I go there at 10, then I go there at 11, then I go there at 12. By 3 o'clock, ding dong, move along, bell's gone. That's us for the day. And I said, do you want to join me? Because I need a bit of a meal. He said, do you? And it's because I'm teaching the boys the haka. And then I'm teaching the girls the poi. And he goes, OK. OK, 

     

     

    so my brother came with me. And at the time, it was me and my brother. When my brother Tuhoe walked into the kura, he looked, because he's come from Te Arawa, from our people, from our hapu, I should say. And he saw the different kind of styles. And then I says, what do you think? And he says,I think we need to uplift the standard of our people. I said, well, come on, then let's go. 

    We'll start with the kids. See, I knew that's why you were coming in. I knew you were here, so I knew I was missing something. He says, yep. 

     

    So me and Tuhoi at those times, we taught all the kura in Heretaunga. And there was two other whanau, which was Kate Tatuhi and her husband, John Matthews. They taught ahuriri.So every time we'd go there, there was a competition here. We just want to get the kids up to stand in front of a crowd and knock yourself out. Just get up and perform. And then this competition came. Oh, OK. I would just put them on. But I think that's the thing that me and my brother have to learn these days is how to be competitive. Because that's not who we are. Because it's an upbringing. 

     

    He aha te tikanga o tērā o te āhuatanga whakataetae? 

    What does that mean, though, how to be competitive?

    Tērā ētahi kura e whai ana kia whakaihuwaka. Āe. Ka pērā hoki ō māua ko Tūhoe whakaaroengari nō hea tērā whakaaro e puta ā-waha nei ki ngā tamariki. Āe. Ka kī noa atu, “E tū, whakaorangia mai ā māua titonga me ā māua I whakaako atu ai ki a koutou, ngā papa i tae ora mai ai koutou ki konei, ka kite ai he aha te hua ka puta.” Ki te kī te tangata he ngoikore koe, me kī atu ‘kia ora,’ waihoki, ki te kī te tangata he pai koe, me kī, ‘kia ora.’ Āe. Koirā te ao.

     

    Because I think there's some kura out there, they're going for the win. Me and Tuhoe, well, we think about going for the win, but we don't encourage that aowaha to our kids. We just say, just get up, make your compositions come alive, bake all our material that we taught you and the sacrifices that you did to get here come alive, and see where it gets you. If people say you're dumb, you go kia ora. And if people say you're good, you go kia ora. Yeah. So that's the life.

     

    Kāo, he rawe tēnā. Nā reira kei Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga kōrua. He kapa tā kōrua ki reira, i kuraina ō tamariki ki reira, ō tamāhine. Kia kōrerohia tērā. I pēhea te whakaako i ō tamāhine? 

     

    No, that's cool. So with you, so you guys are at Te Kura Kaupapa Maori o Ngati Kahungunu ki Heretaunga. You have your kapa there, your tamariki went through there, your girls. Let's talk about that. How was it teaching your girls? How did we get there?

    He aha te taenga ki reira? I hangaia e Kahungunu tētahi kura hou. I hangaia he kura hou, ana, ka tono mai rātou ki a māua. Nā Tūhoe te whare i hanga. Ko ia te pane o te hanga i te whare, nāna hoki ngā whakairo katoa. 

     

    I haere māua ko taku māmā ki te mahi I ngā mahi tukutuku me rātou. Ka whakaako ia i ētahi kōrero mō ngā tauira kōwhaiwhai mō te whare. Kātahi ka tīmata tā rātou whatu korowai i mua tonu i a māua. I te titiro māua ko māmā, kātahi ka, “Oi, haere ki kō.” “O, ka pai.” Āe. Nā reira ka kī atu māua, “O, kei te hia āwhina?” 

     

    Nā reira mutu ana te hanga i te kura, ka tae ki te wā o te whakatuwheratanga, ka whakapā mai rātou ki a mātou. Ko tā rātou, “Hei, he Huata kōrua, me haere mai ki konei.” Ko tā māua, “Ka pai.” I taua wā ka kōrero hāngai atu ahau, “Kāore i te tino kounga taku reo, kia pono taku kōrero atu.” Ko tā rātou, “Ehara te reo i te aronga matua.” Tuatahi, he Huata koe, tuarua, kei te mōhio mātou ki ō kōrua pūkenga.” Ākona te reo i ō kokenga. Āe. Nā reira koirā tō māua kuhunga ki te kura.

     

    Kahungunu built a new kura. They bought a new kura, and our involvement there, they came to get us, so Tihoi actually built the whare. He was the lead of building the whare, and he did all the whakairo. 

     

     

    Me and my mum went to do all the tukutuku work with them. He taught them all about that, and the kōwhaiwhai patterns for the whare. Then they started to make korowais in front of us. Me and mum were looking, and we go, oi, get over there. Oh, OK. Yeah, so oh, do you need a bit of a hand? 

     

     

     

     

    And so when they finished building the school and when it was time to open it up, they came to us. They said, hey, you're Huata's. You need to come here. We said, oh, OK. At that time, I just said straight to them. I said, well, you know, my reo's not sharp, and I'll just tell you that straight. And they said, it's not about the reo. No. No. One, you're Huata. Two, we know what you fellas can bring. You just learn the reo as you go on. Yeah. So that's how we got to the kura

    I pēhea tērā, te whakaako i tāu anō kapa? Nō hea tō whakaako i tō kapa o reira? Tokohia ngā tamariki?

     

    So what was it like teaching your kapa? How did you start teaching your kapa then? Did you have many kids?

     

    I te wā i tūtaki tuatahi atu, ka tukuna rātou ki te papa. “Okei. E tama, kei te kura hē tāua.”  Ko tāna, “Heoi anō, me whakamātau. Āe.” I taua wā, i pai te iwi ki a Te Aute me Hukarere, I te mea kua roa e tū ana. Āe. Ehara i te mea i aro māua ki te rongo me te roa e tū ana. I aro kē ki tā māua i hoatu ai me tā rātou i kapo ai. Ka nanaohia rānei, ka kore rānei. Ki te kore, haere tonu. Māmā noa iho. Ko te āhua o ō māua whakaaro, me ū, me puta rānei. Ko māua ko taku tungāne tērā. Ki te kore

    koe e ū, ehara tēnei i te kura tika mō māua. Ka ū mātou. Ka pai. Nā reira me whai wāhi hoki ō tamariki, ō mātua, ā rātou tamariki. I te mea ehara tēnei i te kura noa iho, he whānau kē.

    Nā reira koirā tā mātou karawhiu. Ka ū katoa, ka puta katoa rānei. Nā rātou te whakatau kia ū tonu. Hika, kua 12 tau, kei reira tonu. Āe.

     

    When we first met them, we put them on the floor. OK. Boy, I think we're at the wrong school. But he says, oh, yeah, but let's give it a go. Yeah, let's give it a go. So you know, at those times, everyone was—everybody liked te aute and hokorere, you know, because they'd been around for a long time. Yeah, it wasn't about a name for us and how long you'd been here. It's what we can give to you and what you're going to take.

     So you're going to take it or you ain't. If you ain't going to take it, well, then you can ding dong move along. That's as simple as that. Because you know, for us, we've got this whakaro all in or all out. Yeah. And me and my brother, we're here, and we're all in. So if you're not all in, then this isn't the kura for us. Yeah. We're in. OK. Kapai. Then your kids have to be in, too, and their parents and their babies. Not just the kura, because this ain't a kura. This is a whanau. Mm. Yeah. So that's just how we roll. We're either all in or we're all out. And they decided we're all in. Hika, 12 years later, still there. Yeah.

     

    He aha tō tāera whakaako? He aha te wāhi ki a koe nō kōrua e whakaako ana, kōrua ko Uncle Tūhoe?

     

    What's your teaching style? What do you look after while you guys are tutoring?You and Uncle Tuhui.

     

    He wā tōna nā māua ko taku tungāne ngā mahi. Heoi anō, ka haramai ngā tamariki ki te kura. Ka tae te wā kia puta, kia nekeneke haere, kia puta i

     

    We used to be me and my brother, and then the kids came to the kura. Yeah. And when it was time for them to move out, we'd be able to

    Nekeneke haere

    Move around, not out Move around

    Nekeneke haere. Āe. Āe. Āe. Nekeneke haere. Āe. Nekeneke haere, puta. I kī atu māua ki ngā tamariki kia whāia ā rātou tohu. Āe, mēnā ka pai ki a koe, hoki mai, engari kua whai koe i tētahi mea, me te aha, katoa ngā tamariki he kaiako. Nā reira kua wha i ara ahau ki te mahi i ngā mahi o muri. 

     

    I te wāe mahi ana taku kuia i ngā piupiu me aua mahi rā, ko ā mātou kai he kapu tī. Te nohunohu hoki. I te mea ka rongo anake koe i te harakeke.

     

     

    Ka whakarekarekahia, ka tīkina he pākete pakapaka, ka toutouhia ai. Āe. Kua paku pai ake. 

     

    Nā reira me hoki atu ki te ōrokohanganga. Nā wai te kākano i whakatō? Nā ō tātou tīpuna.

     

    Engari nā runga i te whakapakeketanga ake, ka haere tonu. Ināianei he kaiako ā māua tamariki ki reira. Nāku ngā mahi o muri, ngā mahi tunu kai. Engari ko tāku ki a rātou, “Mōku, ko te 90% o te kapa haka ko ngā mahi o muri. Ko te tū te 10% o ngā mahi.” Āe. Nā reira ko te wāhi ki a koe he huri i te 10 kia 90 e hua ake ai ko te 100.

     

    Me pērā te tātai. Āe. Tae ana ki ngā titonga a aku tamariki, katoa he kōrero Māori. Engari ko tāku, “Ko rātou aku tuakana.” Āe. Ka whiua tērā kōrero, “Kāo, ko aku tuakana ērā.” Āe. Engari he pūkenga motuhake ō te katoa, āe, i te whānau.

     

     

    Nā reira ka whakarārangi atu i a rātou, tae ana ki te whakakākahu i a rātou.

    Āe. Kua whai teihana ināianei. Ko te wāhi ki ngā mātāmuri, ka tae mai āpōpō, ko ngā mahi puoro. Ko te wāhi ki ngā mātāmua, ki a Tiahuia rāua ko Para, ko ngā kupu, me Uncle Tūhoe hoki. Hui katoa, he moemoeā tō mātou. 

    Heoi anō tā mātou he whakatau ko tēhea te moemoeā ka whāia. Āe, ko tēhea kaupapa. 

     

    Ko te mea nui kia whai kāinga tahi, kāinga rua, kāinga toru, ka hua ake ko tētahi o ērā. Ka piri ana, ka hanga tūmatarau. Kua tae te wā ki te whakakākahu i ngā tamariki. Ko tā P rāua ko Tūrei, i muri i ngā mahi puoro, he whakakākahu i a rātou, he mahi i ngā makawe me ngā pani mata. Mā Tiahuia e mahi ngā pari me ngā piupiu, kia taiea ai ō rātou āhua. Ka whakaita i ngā poi. Āe. Aua momo āhuatanga katoa. Kātahi ka whakarārangi atu i a rātou. Kotahi anō tirotirohanga, ka kuhu mai a Tūhoe, ka takina te karakia whakamutunga, ana, kua tū

    Yeah, yeah. Move around. Move around. Move out. We told the kids to go and get their tohus. Yeah, and if you like it, come back. But you've always got something. And now all the kids are kaiako at the kura. So it's given me the leeway to now do all the back part. Yeah. So I set up all the back now. 

     

     

    So now I'm that--because I've got to go back to my nanny, because you know when my nanny was making the puipui's and all that, our kai at that time was a cup of tea. Man, it was yuck. Because all you could taste was the flax. 

    So you know, sweeten it up, get a bit of packet of crispy, and dip, dip, dip. Oh, yeah, that's a bit better. 

     

    So you always go back to where we started from. Who planted that seed?  Our people don't plant those .

     

    But because of the upbringing, it just keeps going. And now our kids are teachers there. So now I do all the back part, do all the cooking. But I do say to them, I say to them, well, you know, for me, 90% of that kapa haka is that back stuff. When you perform, that's the 10%. their turn turns into that 90, and then you're going to get 100. 

     

     

    That's how you count it up. Yeah. But you know, even composing, now my kids, they all call them Maori. But I will, you know, they're my tuakana, you know? And I tell people, I tell them, that's my tuakana. Yeah. You would just go straight there. Yeah. But then, you know, but everyone has their own skill. Yeah. Yeah, in your family. 

     

    Yeah. Even after school. So we line them up, even when we dress them. Yeah, so we've got stations now. So my two younger ones, or I think they're here tomorrow sometime, so they now do the music. Yeah. My two big ones, Tiahui and Para, they now do the kupu along with Uncle Tuhoi. Together, we kind of like have a vision. We just got to decide which vision we're going to take. Yeah, which kaupapa. 

     

     

     

    As long as you got plan A, plan B, and plan C, because you're going to have one of them. And then when we come together, make magic happen. It's time to dress the kids. P and T, you know? After their music, they now dress them. They make sure to do the hair, the makeup. Tiahui does the bodices, the pipi, make sure they look on point. Poe is tucked in, you know, all that kind of stuff. And then they line them up. I just do the last check. Tihui comes in, does the last karakia, and then bang, you're on

    He mea nui te mōhio ki tō ara i aua pūkenga, kaua e whakawhiti ki ara kē?

    Don't cross over into another lane, girl. Is it important to know your lane in that skill set?

    Āe, ko au tēnā, e keo. Ko au tēnā. Āe. Nā te mea kua roa au e mahi ana i ngā mahi nei, ehara i te mea kua waia. Heoi anō, kei te whakaū noa iho i te pai o ngā tamariki kia tae te wā ka wehe atu māua ko taku tungāne. Koirā noa iho. Āe. E takatū ana ngā tamariki. Āe. E tau ana tā māua haere atu. Kia noho tāua, tungāne.

    Yeah, that's me, my girl. Yeah, that's me. Yeah, yeah. I guess because we've been doing it for a long time. And it's not because I'm used to doing it. You just got to make sure when me and my brother Ding dong move along, the kids are right. Yeah. That's all it is. Yeah. Make sure our kids are on lock. Our kids, we can go away and feel good about--yep. Yeah. Let's go and take a seat, brother.

    Pai te mahi tahi ki tō whānau?

    Awesome working with your whanau? 

    Āe. Me pērā nā te mea katoa ka ū, katoa ka puta. Ko tētahi painga, ka whakapono tētahi ki tētahi. Āe. E kore mātou e tohe. Āe. Ka kuhu mai, ka kōrero, ka koke tonu. Engari kei te papa koe, koirā te karawhiu. Mō mātou, ko te mea nui ko te haumarutanga o ngā tamariki rā, o ō rātou marae, ō rātou whānau me ō rātou hapū. Koirā te aronga matua. Kāore i te aro ki tō tiketiketanga. Āe.

    Yeah. You've got to be because all in and all out. One thing about it, you can trust each other. Yeah. Yeah. We never argue. Yeah. We just come in, say your piece, and move along. Yeah. But you're on the floor. That's just how it is. Yeah. But you're on the floor. Because the thing for us, the safety of those kids, the safety of those kids' marae, their whanau, and their hapu. That's the main thing for us. Yeah. It's not whether you're the A grade. Yeah.

     

    Nā, kāore koe i te tū noa ki mua i te kapa me te whakarite i te kura, he kaiwhakarite hoki koe o ngā whakataetae ā-rohe, nē? 

    So you're not just standing in front of the kapa and getting the kura ready. You're also part of the organizers for the regional competitions as well.

    Āe, e keo.

     

    Me aha e pērā ai?

    What does it take to do that?

    He rawe. Pai mutunga.

    Lovely. Love it

    He aha ai?

    Why?

    Nā te mea koirā tō mātou whakapakeketanga.

    He rawe. Kua titia ki te rae. Hoake. He tau anō. Āe. Ka kī ahau, “Ki te haere tahi mai koe ki ahau, me kuhu ō hū retireti. Me whai mai.” Āe. 

    Ko te hīkoi me te kōrero, hīkoi me te kōrero. Āe.`

     

     

    Engari nō te tīmatatanga o aku tamariki, tae ana ki aku whāngai, he maha aku whāngai, heoi anō, ka kite rātou i te āhua o ā māua ko Tūhoe whakahaere. Ko Tūhoe ka tū, ka whai wā. Ahau, ka hīkoi tonu, ana, ka haramai rātou ki taku taha, “Taihoa. Kua haere ahau ki te tiki i te mea, te mea.” Ko keo kei te taraiwa, kei te kōrero i te waea, kei te pātuhi hoki i te wā kotahi.” Āe. Nā reira ka waia ngā tamariki. Ana, ka “Māku e whakautu māna. Kua haere ahau ki tō taha i te rā nei.” Ka pai. “Koirā tō mahi i ngā rā katoa o tō ao. Koirā te mahi. Kei te hiainu ō hāmua, ō hāmuri, ko koe tēnā. Haere ki te toa, e keo.”

     

    Because it's just how we're brought up. Yeah. Love it. Already got it in my head. Let's go Another year. Yeah. Yeah. I just tell people, when you come with me, you're going to put skates on. You keep up. Yeah. But walk and talk. Walk and talk. Yeah. You just got to walk and talk.

     

     

     

    But then my kids started-- even all my whangai's. Got a lot of whangai's. Yeah. They started noticing how me and Tihui were operating. Tihui would stop and take time out. Yeah. Me, I just keep walking. And yet they come for a ride with me. Hang on. I just got to go and get this. Girl. Girl is driving, texting, and on the phone at the same time. Yeah. And then the kids pick it up. They go, I'll pick that up for her. Yeah. I'm coming with you today. OK. Well, that's your job for the rest of your life. That's what you do. And your brothers and sisters want to drink, that's you. Get down to that shop, my girl. 

    Āe. - He aha i hirahira ai a tua atu o te atamira? E 25 miniti e tū ana ki te atamira, kua 35 ināianei, ka mutu, e ai ki a koe koirā te 10% o te ngao ka tukuna i ngā wānanga. He aha I hirahira ake ai a tua atu o te atamira?

    Yeah, Why is it important? Why is offstage important? Why is offstage-- so we've got 25 minutes, 35 minutes now on stage performance, which you say is 10% of all of the energy that we put into all of our wananga. Why is offstage important?

    Nā te mea koirā te whakatinanatanga o ngā titonga a te tangata me ngā mahi a ngā kaiako, waihoki, a te whānau. Koinei te moemoeā. Whakatinanahia te moemoeā. Whakatinanahia te titonga, whakatinanahia te tū. Engari me mahi ā-whānau, ā-Kahungunu. Kia mahara ake he Kahungunu koe. Ehara koe i a Te Arawa. Āe. Ehara koe i a Raukura. Ehara koe i a Rākaumanga, he Kahungunu koe. 

    Ka mutu I reira. Tuhia ki te rae. Kaua e whakaaro ki rōpū kē atu, me whakaaro ki a koe anō.

    Because it's bringing people's compositions alive. It's bringing the mahi that kaiako put in or whanau put in.<This is the vision. Bring the vision alive. Bring the composition alive. Bring the stance alive. But you do it as a whanau. Kahungunu. Always remember your kahungunu. You're not Te Arawa. Yeah. You're not Raukura. Yeah. You're not Rakaumanga. You're kahungunu. That's the end of that. Put it in your head. Don't think about any other group but yourself.

    I tua o te atamira. Kei te kōrero tāua mō tua o te atamira. Nā reira ka tū koe ki mua i ā tātou tamariki, ka ākona, ka wānanga, ka kai, ngā mahi o muri, ngā kākahu, ngā whānau e mahi tahi ana. I tua o te atamira, ka ako koe i ō tamariki ki Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Heretaunga engari ko koe hoki kei te whakahaere i ngā whakataetae o te rohe. He aha ai?

     

    Offstage. So we're speaking about offstage. So you stand in front of our kids. You take them, wananga, kai, background, kakahu, whanau doing everything together. And now offstage, you don't only tutor your kids. At Te kura kaupapa Maori o Ngāti Kahungunu ki heretaunga But you also run competitions around here as well. Yeah.Why?

    Koirā tō mātou whakapakeketanga, e keo. He māori noa iho, e keo. Engari kua tono mai ngā kaumātua me te iwi ki a māua ko taku tungāne me te kī mai, “Kōrua, whakahaerehia. Kaua e waea mai. Whakahaerehia.” Nā reira ka whakahaerehia. Ka whakahaere māua i ngā whakataetae ā-rohe. Kātahi ka tono māua ki te whakahaere i te whakataetae ā-motu. He rite tonu taku kī atu, “Kaua e wareware, nā māua i whakahaere i mua i Te Matatini.”

     

     Āe. Nā reira ko te kaupapa kōrero ko te kōwhiri i te ingoa o te whakataetae ā-motu. Nā reira ka kōwhiri māua i Te Hāro o te Kaahu. Āe. Mō Te Matatini, i kōwhiria e rātou a Te Kahu o te Amorangi. Āe. Koirā ngā mata e rua. Nā reira I waimarie māua ko Tūhoe ki te whakahaere I taua kaupapa, ka mutu, i rawe. Āe. Tokoono mātou i whakahaere i te whakataetae kura tuarua ā-motu. I rawe. Pai mutunga. 

     

    Āe. Koirā pea tētahi o aku tino kaupapa. Nā te mea ko ngā tamariki te aronga, ko te iwi. Hei aha noa iho ngā kaiwhakawā, whakaarohia ngā tamariki, whakaarohia te iwi. Whāngaihia rātou. Āe. Whāngaihia te iwi. 

     

    Because it's our upbringing, girl. It's just the normal day. It's just the normal day, my girl. But what the kaumātua have come and the iwi have come and they said to me and my brother, you two, run it. Just run the damn thing. They bring us up. Just run it. So we just run it. So we do regionals. Remember that we went and then we tonoed to run the nationals. Yeah. And at the time, so we ran first. And I always say, don't forget we ran first before Matatini. Yeah. 

     

     

    So it was about choosing the name for the nationals. So when we chose the name for the nationals, we chose Te Hāro o Te Kahu. Yeah. Yeah. And then Matatini, they chose Te Kahu o Te Amarangi. Yeah. Yeah. It was to go on side of each other. And so me and Tuhoe had the privilege of having to run that kaupapa. And it was mean. Loved it. Yeah. Six of us ran that secondary nationals. Loved it. It was cool. 

     

     

    Yeah. Yeah. One of the best journeys out probably. Best journey because it was all about just think about the kids, think about the people. 

     

    Āe. I rawe tērā. Nā koutou i manaaki te papa whakataetae, waihoki, i peka koutou ki ngā hapū, ngā iwi me ngā marae katoa o konei ki te tuku i ngā moenga, ngā kai, ngā kaimoana mō te whakataetae kura tuarua ā-motu i te tau 2016, nē?

    Yeah. Because you guys didn't just look after the venue. You also went around to every hapū and every iwi around here and marae to provide anything. Matches, kai, kaimoana, both for second juries, which is in 2016, eh?

    Āe

    Yeah

    Me te tau 2017, whuuu.

    And then 2017 was?

    Pai mutunga.

    Good ending

    He aha ai?

    Who?

    Nā te mea koirā tō mātou whakapakeketanga, e keo. Ko tātou tēnei, āe.

    Because it's our upbringing. Oh my girl. Because it's our upbringing. It's just who we are.

    Āe. Ko tātou tēnei.

    It's just who we are

    Nā reira i māmā noa iho a Te Matatini. Engari he taumata nui ake. He pai ki a au te mahi ki ngā tamariki, he kore nō rātou e whakahoki kōrero. He rerekē ngā pakeke, “Whaea, he ipu kina anō tāu?” “A, kāo.”

    So Matatini was just easy to do. Yeah. It was just on a bit of a bigger scale. I love it with the kids, because the kids don't answer you back. Different with pākeke. Oh, wha, you got another pun of the kina? No.

    Ka pai.

    Ok

    Āe. Engari katoa ka ū, katoa ka puta. Āe. 10 ki a koe, 10 ki tērā kapa, 10 ki a rātou. Āe. Kāore tētahi i nui ake i tētahi. He ōrite koutou, he whānau kotahi.

    OK. Yeah. But all in, all out. You get 10, that whānau get 10. That group get 10. Yeah. No one's higher than everybody else. You're all the same. One whānau

    He aha te hiranga o te mahi tahi, tokoono koutou e mahi ana i te whakataetae kura tuarua ā-motu.

    So how important is it to mahi tahi? You had six people. You all ran the secondary nationals.

    He ātaahua.

    Yep. Beautiful.

     

    He aha te hiranga o te mahi tahi?

    How important is it?

    Āe. Kaua e whakawhiti ara. Ko tāku, “I te wāhi ki ngā pūtea, hei aha māku. Kāore aku wā ki te titiro ki ngā nama. Kei te mahi tīnihanga rātou.” Ko tāku, “Mā māua a muri, mā kōrua tēnei wāhanga me tēnei wāhanga.” Āe.

    Yeah, and don't cross lanes. Yeah, don't cross lanes. I said, me, when it comes to pūtea, don't give that to me. I ain't got time to look at digits. That's you two. I said, us two will do the back, and you two do this part, this part. Yeah Yeah Yeah.

    Āe. He hirahira te mahi tahi, nē?

    Really important to mahi tahi, eh?

    Nā, ka tīmata te whakataetae ā-motu, ka hui mātou, te tokoono, i taua ata, ka karakia nui ai. Kia kite tātou i te huanga ake o te tūmatarau.

    And then when the nationals started, the six of us got together that morning. We had a big karakia. And we said, let's see magic unfold in front of our eyes.

    Rawe.

    Mean.

    Me te aha, i pērā. Ko tāku, “Ki te raru ētahi, tukuna ki a Tuhoe, nā te mea ko ia te heamana.” Ko tā taku tungāne, “Tukuna ki a Maku, ko ia te tuakana.” Engari ināianei ko Tuhoe te heamana o te huhua

    And it did. Yeah. And I said, and if you need he raru with anybody, send them to Tūhoe, because he's the chair. Because some of my brother goes, send him to Maki, because she's the tuakana. But now Tūhoe's the chair of different

    He tangata tau te rangimārie?

    And he's Tauterangi Māri, too?

    Āe, tau te rangimārie. Āe. Nā, ināianei ko ahau te māngai ki Mana Kuratahi a Kahungunu. Ko ahau te māngai a te kapa me te wharekura. Āe. Ko taku mahere tauatanga ko te tō mai i taku tamāhine.  Āe. He aha au e tō mai nei i a rātou? He kaingākau nō rātou. Āe.

    Yeah. How to help. Yeah, Tauterangi Māri. Yeah. But from there, see now I'm the delegate of the Mana Kura Tahi for Kahungunu, for the kapa, I'm the delegate for Wharekura. Yeah, so my succession plan is move my girl in. Yeah. Because why do I move them in? Because they love it. Yeah

    Tō tamāhine.

    Your girl

    Tēhea?

    Which one?

    Rāua tahi. Kaitātaki wahine. He aha te hiranga o te tuku i ngā pūkenga me ngā mātangatanga ki a rāua hei ārahi i tētahi kapa. He pēhea tērā, te whakarite i ō tamāhine?

    Both of your girls. Kaitātaki Wahine.How important is it to be able to give them the skills and expertise to lead a team? What is that like, getting your girls ready?

     

    He rerekē tā mātou karawhiu. I te wāhi ki te kaitātaki, e kore au e aro ki te kaitātaki. Ka aro ahau ki te kapa. He takitahi noa iho tērā, engari he whānau kotahi tātou. Katoa ka ū, katoa ka puta. E keo, ko koe te tuatahi ki te maranga me te whakamutunga ki te moe. Koirā te mahi a te kaitātaki. Ehara i te mea ka tū koe, ka kī ‘hope’ ka karanga, ka waiata i tō rangi, te mea, te mea.

     

     Ko te aronga ko tō tiaki i tō kapa me te whakaū i tā tō kapa whakapono ki a koe ka eke ana i te atamira. Mā tō kapa koe e tuarā. Ko koe te tuatahi ki te maranga, kei te kīhini koe e āwhina mai ana ki te tunu parakuihi, ā, ko koe te mea whakamutunga ki te moe. Kei te whakapai koe I ngā wharepaku i tō kapa e moe ana. Āe. Koirā te kaitātaki ki ahau nei. Koirā te kaitātaki. Āe. Māu a mua, a muri hoki. Mā ngā mahi o muri e tae ai koe ki mua. 

     

    Ko tētahi āhuatanga o taku tamāhine, o Panache, kāore ia i pīrangi mau korowai rerekē. Kāore ia i pīrangi kia rerekē ōna makawe. Ko tāna, “Kāo, kei te pīrangi ahau kia ōrite ki aku tungāne me aku tuākana, tēina.” Kātahi ka haramai a māmā, nē, mōhio koe ki a kuia, he kaiwhakawā tō mātou māmā I taua wa. Āe. Ka haramai a māmā, ka kī mai, “Me mau kahu rerekē tō tamāhine.” E pai ai tā ngā kaiwhakawā tūtohu ko wai te kaitātaki. Ka kī atu ahau, “Pepe, me mau kahu rerekē koe.” 

     

    Ko tāna, “He aha tēnā?” Ko tāku, “Aua hoki, māu e kōwhiri.” Ko tāna, “Ka mau piupiu rerekē ahau. Engari kei te pīrangi ahau kia ōrite ki aku tungāne, tuākana, tēina.” Engari anō a Tiahuia, he kōrero anō tērā. He tūturu tana whakapakeketanga i raro i taku māmā. I whakaritea kētia ia. Āe. Kāore ia i whakaritea kia tū hei kaitātaki. Engari i kī noa atu ki a ia I tētahi rā ko ia te kaitātaki. Ko tāna, “A, ka pai.”Ka mutu ki reira. “Engari mahia atu ō mahi.” Nā reira i te pērā kē ia. Āe. He āhua anō tōna. “Māku e kuhu te korowai, me tēnei.” Āe. 

     

    Nā reira e rua ngā tāera motuhake. Whakakotahi ai rāua i aua tāera. Āe. Kāore e pai ki a Panache kia kōrerohia tēnei, heoi anō, i te wā i toa i a ia te kaitātaki ki te whakataetae ā-motu i te Tairāwhiti, ka piki mai ia, ka rongo mātou i te “Hm?” Ka pai. I ngū katoa tō mātou whānau. Āe. Engari i nui te whakahīhī o roto heoi anō, I ngū. 

     

    So it's different for us. So when I do kaitātaki, I don't focus on the kaitātaki. I focus on the group. She-- they're just one person. We are whole whānau. One whānau, all in or all out. So my girl, you're the first up, and you're the last down to sleep. That's part of being kaitātaki. It's not about get up and say, hope, and do your karanga, and sing your note, whatever it is. It's all about you look after your group. 

     

    You make sure that your group trusts you when you get on that stage. Yeah. Your group has got your back. So you're up first, and you're in the kitchen helping me do breakfast, and you're last down, You're cleaning those toilets when they're in bed. Yeah. Yeah. That's kaitātaki to me. Yeah. You can do the front, or you can do the back too, because that back is going to get you to that front.  

     

     

     

     

    One thing about my girl, Panash, she was a bit--she was that person that she didn't want a different korowai. She didn't want a different head do.She said, no, I want to look the same as my brothers and sisters. But then it was Mum that came, because you know, Kuia he kaiwhakawā our mum. It was Mum that came. She said, you know, your girl needs to wear something different. So then when Kaiwhakawā judge, any kaitātaki, they can I dentify who's the leader. Yeah. I said, Pepe, you need to wear something different. 

     

     

    She said, like what? I said, I don't know. Pick something. She goes, well, I'll wear a different pepe. But the rest, I want to look like my brothers and sisters. Probably with Tiahuia was different, because she had a very strong upbringing with my mother. Yeah. So she was already groomed. Yeah, but she wasn't groomed to be a kaitātaki. They just told her one day she's the kaitātaki. And she goes, well, OK. That was it. Yeah. But you just do what you do. So she would do what she was doing. Yeah.

     

     

     

     

    So she was different. I'll wear that korowai, and I'll wear this. But yeah. Yeah. But there's two different styles. They both bring it together. Yeah. Because my girl, I'm not talking about her, but you know, when she won the kaitātaki at the Nationals in Tairawhiti, you know, and she came up, we just said, hmm? OK. But you know, our whole family, we knew. Yeah. Yeah. But inside, very proud, but we knew.

    Āna, whakaiti. Whakaiti.

    Whakaiti Yeah. Humble.

    Ko te kōrero i a mātou, “Me tatari kia tae ki te kāinga.” Koirā te kōrero i a mātou. “Me tatari kia tae ki te kāinga.” 

    Because our line is, wait till you get home. That's our line. Wait till you get home.

    Āe. Ka pērā hoki mātou. Ka hui ki runga pahi kia kaua koe e kitea. Nā reira ki te whakakōpani koe i tēnei hui ki ngā kupu akiaki e toru e pai ake ai te tū a ā tātou tamariki, he aha aua momo kōrero?

    Yeah. Same with us. Have a huli on the bus when no one sees you. So if we were to wrap this up, and we had--you had three top things to be able to encourage our kids to be better performers, what would they be? 

    Mēnā e ora tonu ana ō kaumātua, kapohia ā rātou kōrero. Whāia ō kaumātua ki ngā wāhi katoa.

     Whai mai ai taku tama i ahau ki ngā wāhi katoa. “Haramai, e tama. Kua haere tāua.” I te mea koirā te ōrokohanganga. Nā rātou tonu te kākano i whakatō, nā ō tātou tīpuna. Ka kite ana koe i ngā kaipuoro, he rite tonu taku kī atu, nā rātou ngā kākano i whakatō, Te Kenana Wi Te Tau Huata, Paraire Henare Tomoana, Irirangi Tiakiawa. Mauriora Kepa. Mauriora Kingi, mō taku hapa, tungāne. Āe. Tahi tērā. Ka rua, kia tapatahi. Katoa ka ū, katoa ka puta. Me āpiti ahau i ētahi kōrero, ngā waiata, i pērā ngā waiata, nē? (E waiata ana). Kāore he whakaniko. I taku rongotanga tuatahi, ko tāku, “He aha kē te nenekara rā?” (E waiata ana). Ko tāku, “Me kaua rawa e pērā te waiatahia o te waiata o taku koroua.” Nē, te tāera waiata, te tāera waiata. Engari kia kī ahau ki ā tātou rangatahi o ēnei rā. “Nō koutou te whiwhi. Kua whakatōkia kētia ngā kākano mō koutou. Kei a koutou ngā taputapu katoa kei ō koutou aroaro. Kei a koutou ngā kaiako e tū atu nā i mua i a koutou. Kei a koutou te reo, kua takohatia atu ki a koutou te reo.” Āe. Ko tāku, “Kaiparāoa noa iho mā koutou.” I tō mātou nā wā, i kanohi ki te kanohi. 

    Me kanohi ki te kanohi. Kaua e whai i te ara wawe, nā te mea he tamariki hangarau ā tātou tamariki, nē. “O, kei te rapu noa iho au i a Alex,” ka patopato. 

    Engari ko tāku ki aku tamariki, “Haere koe ki te kite atu i taua tangata, pātaihia te whānau rā.” Āe. “Kei te hia whakamahi koe I taua waiata, me waea atu, me haumaru, mātua rā ko te haumarutanga. Me taki karakia, ka mutu, me tūpore tō tono atu ki taua whānau kia whakamahi koe i te waiata. 

     

    If your grandparents are around, take whatever you can of them. Follow your grandparents everywhere You know, my boy, he follows me everywhere. Come on, my boy, we're off. Because that's where we first started from. Yeah. That's where we planted the seed. Our tūpuna planted those seeds. If you see musicians in that, that's who planted those seeds. Always remember those people. They're going to--Te kinana a Wi Te Tau Huata, Paraire Hinare Tomoana, Irirangi Tiakiwa, Mauriora Kingi. That's one. Two, always make sure that you're on tech, all in or all out. Because I'm just going to need to add something. You know that singing? Singing was like that, you see? Yeah. Tutira mai nga iwi" No trills, you know when I first saw those trills I go, what the heck's that nonsense?   Yeah. You know, "Tutira mai nga iwi" You will not sing my Koro's song like that. But you know, but the style of singing. Yeah. The style of singing. And just to always say to our rangatahi today, you're lucky. The seed's been planted for you. You have all these tools in front of you. You have all these kaiako in front of you. You have the realm. You've been gifted with that much of the realm. Yeah. 

    You've got the easiest thing out. In our days, you went Kanohi ki te kanohiBut always make sure to go Kanohi ki te kanohi Don't go to the fastest thing. Because you know our kid's do technology, because you see? Oh, I just want to look up Alex. And just tap, tap, tap. But I say to my kids, you go and see that person. And you go and ask that whānau. You want to go and sing that song. Make sure to ring up. Be safe. Always got to be safe. Have a karakia. And always be polite to ask that whānau if you could use it.

    Rawe.

    Mean

    Āe. Koia.

    And yeah

    He rawe tēnā.

    That's mean.

    Koirā noa iho. Āe. Engari ka maumahara au ki taku tino. Kenana Wi Te Tau, Paraire Henare Tumoana, Te Atairangikaahu, Irirangi Tiakiawa, Sonny Kepa, Te Kepa Marsh, Mauriora Kingi.

    Aunty Bernadette e karangahia nei ko Tiorita,Te Rita. Timoti Karetu. I reira ia i ō mātou nā rā. 

     

    Uuu, i mua i te whakakapinga, kia kī ahau, Timoti Karetu. He hoa piritata nō taku māmā. Ko ‘Kui’ tana ingoa karanga mōna. I haere rāua ki Hawaii, ka hoki mai, ko tāna, “He waiata tāku.” Ko tāna, “Ka pai.” Ka kī atu ia, “Māu aku nekehanga poi haere ake nei.” 

     

     

    Ko tana poi tuatahi māna, ko (e waiata ana). I aua rā, i pēnei mātou he pūkenga mātou e pēnei ana. Ināianei, ka titiro ana koe, ka pēnei mātou.  Engari mo te poi. I māmā te poi, ā, ko ngā tūkawe o te poi, whakatakihia. Kia kaua ngā waewae e whakamātāmuri i te poi. 

     

    Te tāera o te poi. Kia mau ki te tāera o te poi. Kia hoki au tā aku tamariki tito waiata. Nōu ka tito waiata.  He wā ōna ka whakaaro ahau, koinei taku mahi? Te rangatahi e, te rangatahi e. Ka mate ana tētahi nō te whānau, kei te hia tito waiata ahau mōna. Hei, hei, kōrerohia tēnei me tēnā.

     

     

    Mahara au ki te wā i haramai taku kōtiro ki a au, ka kī mai, “Māmā, kei te whai kaupapa ahau mō te poi.” Ko tāku, “Ka pai. Kōrerohia ngā manu.” Ko tāna, “Ēhea manu?” Ko tāku, “(e waiata ana).” Ka pērā.  Me tito e pā ana ki ngā manu me ā rātou ki a tātou. Ko tā tātou he tāwhai i ngā manu me ngā ngāngara. I ahu mai te pūkana i hea? I ngā manu, mātakina ō rātou karu. 

     

    Nā, ko tā taku kōtiro, “Whaea, kāore au e mōhio ki te pūkana.” Ko tāku, “Tīkina te tī tāora rā me te hanga tūmatarau.” Ko tā rātou, “Huh?” Ana, koia. 

    Nā reira me whakaako koe i ngā tāera huhua ki ngā tamariki. Kaua e kī atu, “Huakina ō karu. Engari me kī atu, “Tīkina te tī tāora rā, kātahi ka pūkana mai ō karu.” Āe. “Horoia ngā maitai.” Āe. Nā reira koirā te ahunga mai.

     

     

    He tāera tito anō, nē, he tāera tito anō.

    Engari me whāngai hoki ki tō manawa, ki tō ngākau me tō aroha. Āe. Waihoki, me hāngai ngā puoro ki ngā kōrero. Kaua ko te whakahāngai i ngā kōrero ki ngā puoro. Āe. Me hāngai ngā puoro. Kaua e waiata (e waiata ana), e hoki. 

    Koirā te kōrero. 

     

     

    Tēnā koe i whakamanuhiri I ahau i te rā nei. He rawe ki ahau te kōrero mō taku koro i te rā nei. Kua aua atu te wā kua kōrero au mō taku pāpā, me te kōrero mō taku māmā nāna mātou i whakapakeke ake. Ko ia tō mātou māmā me tō mātou pāpā.

     

    Āe. E kore koe e mōhio ki te āhua o tō whakapakeketanga kia kōrero rā anō koe ki tētahi atu. Āe. Mutunga kē mai o te pai. He kōrero Māori ō mātou, he kaitito, he tāngata haka, he tāngata karakia, he tikanga, he kawa. Āe. Kua How Great Thou Art ināianei, Whakaaria Mai. 

     

     

    I te wā e ora tonu ana a Howard Morrison, ko taku koro tana Matua Atawhai. Ka haramai a Uncle Howard, ko tāna, “Uncle, kei te whai waiata ahau e rongonui ai ahau.” I taua wā ko te momo pēnei i a Dalvanius, ko ngā Yandell, Tui Teka. I pīrangi ia kia rongonui ia. Nā reira ko tā taku koro, “Whai mai.” I roto I ā mātou mahi katoa, heoi anō tāu, he whai atu i te tangata. Māna koe e ako ki te whai atu. Ka tae rāua ki Te Awamutu, ā, ko tā koro, “Arā tō waiata. Whakaaria Mai How Great Thou Art. Māu e rongonui ai,” me te aha, i pērā ia.

    That's it, really. Yeah. But just always remember my Tino. Kinana Wi Te Tau, Paraire Hinare Tomoana, Te AtairangiKaahu, Irirangi Tiakiawa, Sonny Kepa, Te kepa Marsh, Mauriora Kingi, Aunty Bernadette, who everybody call's Tiorita, Tirita, Timoti Karetu He was around in our days. 

     

     

    Oh, I must say that. Just before we end, say Timoti Karetu, He was very close with my mum. He used to call her koi And they went to Hawaii. They came back. And he says, I've got a waiata. She goes, OK. And he said, you're to do all my poi actions from now on. And the first poi he did for her was that she did for him. 

     

    I was like—[SINGING] Those days, we thought we were neat going like this. Now when you look at her, we go--But you know, some poi is simple. And it's the technical poi. Control it. Sometimes you don't let the feet--don't let your feet take over the poi. Yeah. The style of poi. 

     

    Make sure that the style of poi stays. 

    You know, getting back to my kids composing. When you compose, well, you know, I really got to say, my goodness, sometimes rangatahi--yeah, rangatahi, you know, this-- you know, Whānau perish. Oh, I want to do a song about that, hey? Talk about this. Talk about that. 

     

     

    Yeah.Remember, my girl coming to me, she said, Mum, I need a kaupapa for poi. I said, OK. Do about the birds. And I go--And she said, what birds? [SINGING] That's easy. What about the birds? Tell them what they bring to us. Because we mimic birds and we mimic insects. Where does pukana come from? From the birds. Watch their eyes. 

     

     

     

    Nervous up, my girl goes, fire, I don't know, to the pukana. I was going, we're going to grab their tea towel over there and make magic happen. And they go, huh? That's it. 

    So you got to teach the kids different styles of how to do those things. Yes, you can. Don't tell them, go and open your eyes. Don't tell them, go get that tea towel over there. You'll soon open those eyes. Yeah. Or go wash the dishes. And so that's how that all comes around.

     

    Different way of composing. It's just different styles of composing. But you got to put heart, passion, and love into it. Yeah. Yeah. And then make sure the music goes with the kōrero. Not the kōrero, goes with the music. Make sure your music goes. You can't be singing like, ka ka ka pipi wharenia, ka ka ka pipi wharenia. Get back. Anarchist. 

    So that's the kōrero. 

     

    Thank you for having me. I've just loved speaking about my koro today. Been a long time since I've spoken about my dad. And just talking about my mum who brought us up. Who's our mother and our father. 

     

     

     

    Yeah. Yeah. And I guess you don't realise how you've been brought up until you tell someone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we have our speakers. We have compositions. We have haka people. We have karakia people. We have tikanga and kawa. But it really sounds like I'm doing how great thou art now. Whakāria mai.

     

     

    You know, because Howard Morrison, when he was around, because my koro is his godfather. And Uncle Howard came and he says, Uncle, I need a song to make me famous Because at that time, there was Delphinius and the Yandall sisters and Tui teka. So he wanted to become famous. So koro said, follow me. So anything we did, you just have to follow the person. They're going to teach you. Just follow them. Yeah. And so they got to Te Ao Matu. And my koro said, there's your song. Whakāriamai. How great thou art. Now go and make it famous. And he did. 

    Āe. I pērā ia.

    Yeah, he did

    Āe. Nāna i rongonui ai. 

    Nā reira kei te mihi ahau ki te hunga nā rātou i ora ai ngā waiata a taku koro. Kei te mihi ahau ki te hunga e waiata tonu ana i ngā waiata a aku tīpuna. Āe. Ko te kōrero a aku tamariki, “O, anei anō ia e kōrero ana i te pūrākau.” He whakahīhī nōku. 

    Yeah. He made it famous. So I thank all those people for bringing my koros songs alive. I thank all those people that still sing my tūpuna songs. Yeah. You know, my kids, oh, here she goes, telling the story again. Just because I'm proud

    Āe. Kaingākau ana anō hoki. 

    Yeah. Passionate, too

    He whakapakeketanga. Koia. Āe. Kaingākau. Āe, koia.

    Yeah. Passion. Yeah. That's the one.

    Me i a tāua te rā katoa ki te kōrero, kātahi rā.

    I wish we had all day to kōrero. 

     

    Kei konā katoa au, e keo.

    Oh, I would say my girl, but you know.

    Engari kāore i te pērā.

    But we don't.

    Kāo, e koke e noke.

    No. Ding dong, move along.

    Engari e mihi ana, e mihi ana ki ngā kōrero katoa ki o tupuna kua whakatō mai ki roto ki ta tatou kaupapa i tenei wa nei.  Tēnā rawa atu koe, Auntie Maks. I rawe ngā kōrero. Atu i a mātou katoa o konei, tēnā rawa atu koe i ngā kōrero o te rā nei, hei rauemi mo a tatau tamariki. Nō reira e mihi ana.

     

    But, thank you. I want to acknowledge your ancestors for planting the seed for today. So thank you very much, Auntie Mak's That was a mean kōrero But now, from all of us here, thank you so much for all the kōrero today. To be used as resources for our children So, thank you.

    Kia piri tahi te whānau.

    Keep the whānau together.

     

    Outro:  

    Maku Ropitini stands ons stage and performs a waiata. Close ups of multiple shots of carvings, Birds eye view pan shot of green hols with a river in the foreground. Low close up view of a river with trees in the background, followed by multiple shots of more of the same river. Panned shot of the ocean with a cliff island in the middle. A close up of a large tree trunk debris on the beach with the same cliff island in the distance. Close up shot of the tree debris trunk where it has snapped. The beach with the ocean in the background with waves breaking on the shore. Close up shot of a carving. Black background screen with the words “ Ministry of education, Te Tāhuhu o te Mātauranga” displayed 

     

    [ Accordion ]

    Intro while music plays are shots of a bridge over the river, over to a shot overlooking the ocean and beaches. Then a closeup of a carving, then a significant building in Opotiki on to the road sign for Opotiki. Panning shots of a historical painting, then back to the river and barge. We then have a soaring shot of a bird eye view of the Opotiki district, into a pan shot of a church and carvings that are landmarks in this area. Shots of the skate part which contains carved pou situated in the skate part ending that shot with a closeup of one of the pou. Ending the intro on a shot overlooking the ocean and beach coming down to the carved pou with the words Te Whakatōhea on the screen. Closing it off with the words on the screen Te Ao Haka with the logo for Te Ao Haka.

    Reo Māori

    Reo Pākehā

    Ka whakatangihia rā te Tētere ki runga ō Maungārangi. Whakatangihia rā taku pere ki runga o Te Reremōari. E waimaria ana ahau i tēnei rā kia noho ki taku Pāpā. Ki taku Korowai, ki taku Kaiako.Oti rā kā mutu ki te Koroua o Te Whakatohea. Rangatira nui, ia te Kāhautu.

    Nōreira tēna koe kei taku Pāpā.

     

    The bugle rings out atop Maungārangi. My bell rings out atop Te Reremōari. I’m fortunate to be in your company today, Uncle. My sheltering cloak, my mentor and the elder of Te Whakatōhea 

    Te Kāhautu, the great chief. Greetings, Uncle.

    Tēna koe Pāora.

    Greetings, Pāora

    Mē taku waimarie ko tāua tēnei e noho tahi ana, ki te kōrero kia ako tēnei o āu tamaiti. Ki tō tipuranga i roto i tēnei Te Ao Haka.

    Kua roa nei ahau ē mātakitaki ana ia koe, ē Mīharo atu ana kia koe. He maungā nui koe.

    Nō Te Ao Haka.Te ao ē pārekareka ana ki au, nōreira ko tāua tēnei me taku waimarie.

    Nōreira i mua i tā taua ruku atu ki tēnei wānanga, ki ēnei kōrero. Ā tēna pēpehatia mai koe.

    It’s fortunate that we’re able to sit together and talk and learn. Let’s get into your upbringing in the world of haka. I have been observing and admiring you for a long time. You’re a lofty mountain in the haka world, which is the lifestyle I enjoy. Let’s get into it. How fortunate I am! Before we dive any deeper, please explain where you come from. 

    Kō Te Kāhautu Maxwell taku ingoā. Kō Te Whakatohea te iwi, mē ōku iwi kārangaranga.

    Engari nā āku maunga ahau i whakaruruhau. Nā aku awa ahau i Whāinu. Nā waku papatipu ahau i whakatipu, nō roto mai i te rohe Te Whakatohea.

    Kō Muriwai te Tīpuna.

    Kō Tū tāmore te tangatā.

    Kō Mātātua te waka.

    Kō Te Whakatohea te iwi.

    My name is Te Kāhautu Maxwell. My tribe is Te Whakatōhea. 

    I have other affiliations as well.

    My mountains have sheltered me. My rivers have given me water to drink. I was raised by Waka Papatipu in the Te Whakatōhea region.

    Muriwai is the ancestor.

    Tūtāmore is the chief.

    Mātaatua is the canoe.

    Te Whakatōhea is the tribe.

    He ponongā ahau nā Te Whakatohea.

    He kaimahi ahau nā Te Whakatohea.

    He tere pēke ahau nā Te Whakatohea.

    A nōreira i runga i ēra kōrero. Kā arohatia ā Te Whakatohea e ahau. Kā kanohitia ā Te Whakatohea e ahau. Mē taku tūmanakō kā arohatia e ahau e taku Te Whakatohea. A nōreira tēna tātou i tēnei ata.

    I am at the beck and call of Te Whakatōhea.

     

     

    Therefore, on that note. I love and represent Te Whakatōhea. And I hope I am loved by Te Whakatōhea in return. Greetings everyone.

    Ngā mihi rā i ēna kupu ātaahua.

    Ātaahua, heoi anō kia hoki tō mahara ki te wā e tipu nei koe, e tamariki tonu ana koe. E aha ngā whēakoranga, he aha ngā kitengā, he aha ngā whāwhāranga ia koe e pakeke haere mai ana i roto i te ao Haka haka ō Te Whakatohea.

    Thank you for those beautiful words.

    I’d like you to think back to when you were growing up, when you were younger. What were your experiences? What did you observe? What did you explore growing up in the world of kapa haka within Te Whakatōhea?

    A i ēra wā ko te Māori Club.

    Ko te Māori Club tēnei mea e karangatia nei ko te Kapa Haka i ēnei rā “Māori Club”. Kō taku tuakanā a Te Kēpa, i roto ia i te Karapū a taku kuia. A Kā Mākewhara nee Kēti, a te tamāhine ā Hori Kēti. I roto o ngā Pōtiki i kōnei.

    Koina taku mahara i au e tamariki ana, tamariki tamariki ana.

    In those times, it was called Māori Club.

    What we call kapa haka today was called Māori Club.

    My older brother, Te Kēpa, was in my grandmother's club.

     

    She was Kā Mākewhara (nee Kēti), daughter of Hōri Kēti. They were in Ngā Pōtiki who were based here. That’s what I recall when I was younger.

    Wēra toa, a ko Rāwinia, a ko te tungāne ō taku Kuia ā Ben Gauge, ā Te nehu Moana. Charlie Walker, me tāna wahine a Phoebe Walker, Daisy Waterson, rātou. Koirā taku mahara ki te Kapa Haka. Kā hoki mai taku tuakana i ngā parakatihi. Parakatihi rātou ki Pākowhai.

    Anā koinā taku mahara, i tau taku kuia ki te Kapa Haka. Ki ahau anō i tau taku tuakana ki te kapa haka.

    The champions then were Rāwinia, my grandmother’s brother Ben Gauge and Te Nehu Moana. There was Charlie Walker and his wife Phoebe Walker, Daisy Waterson and others. Those are my memories of kapa haka.

    My older brother would return from practice.

    They practiced at Pākōwhai.

    I recall my grandmother was a skilled performer. 

    My older brother was also an excellent performer.

    Muri mai i tēra, ka tau au ki Ashbrook School.

    Te wā ia mātou te ingoa o te kura rā ko Pungarehuwai. Nā taku Koroua Te Wiremu i whakaingoa, whakamāori i te ingoa Ashbrook Pungarehu. 

    Wai, Brook, Awa ae.

    Wā mātou waiata katoā.

    (Ka waiata)

    Ināianei mea tia te ingoā tūturu o te whenua kō Papa Te Whai. Ana ko te Māori Club tonu tēra.

    Later on, I attended Ashbrook School. 

    When I was there, the school was called Pungarehuwai. It was named by my grandfather, Te Wīremu. He translated the name Ashbrook into Māori - Pungarehu.

     

    Wai came from brook, which is a river.

    It appeared in all of our songs.

    (Sings)

    Now it carries the original name of the land, which is Papatewhai. That’s the Māori Club.

    Ko taku tuakana a Karaitiana, a Son, a Chris i roto i te Delamere Cup. Kō mātou ē takoto ana, ē mātakitaki atu ana I ngā tuākana ia Susan Mītai mā, ia Thomas Mītai mā. I roto i te Māori Club ō Pungarehuwai. Anā hei wēra wā, kā tū tē Novis i wēra wā. Anā i tē atā, i tē rā o te Parāire.

    Anā kua tu ngā pākeke hei te pō, anā ka tūtuki te kaupapa. Kō ngā toa i ēra wā kō Pungarehuwai i raro ia to mātou aunty Tira.

    My older brothers, Karaitiana, Son and Chris were all in the Delamere Cup.

    We would watch Susan Mītai, Thomas Mītai and others. They were in the Pungarehuwai Māori Club.

    In those days, they held a novis section on Friday morning.

     

    The seniors performed in the evening, which concluded the event. The champs in those days were Pungarehuwai, who were tutored by Aunty Tira.

    Koirā inā kē te nui ō tēna wahine, Ngati Porou.

    Tira Hoira i moe ia, auē, to mātou Pāpā nō Ngai Tai. Te pāpā ō Moe, mōea ia aunty Jan.

    Anā koia me Uncle Ben, Pīki tangata a uncle Ben Gage. Kā tai mai tāna Taraka Kaunihera Opotiki council truck. Koia te Dog pound officer pea. Anā puta mai ia i te, i tāna taraka.

    Anā te taiapa ō te kura, kā Tāwhai noa ia.

    She was a big lady from Ngāti Porou. She was Tira Hoira, she married our uncle from Ngāi Tai.

    Moe’s father, who married Aunty Jan.

    There was also Uncle Ben. Uncle Ben Gauge, he was a huge man. His truck would pull up. It was a Ōpōtiki Council truck. He was the dog pound officer. He would hop out of his truck and make his way around the fence of the school.

    Kāre ia i kuhu mā te kēti, arā ke mātou e hoihoi anā i roto i te Kapa Haka. Ko to mātou aunty, Aunty Tira, kei te, kei te wairangi i te mahi haututu a te Tamariki e kore whakarongo anō mātou ki a ia. Kā tae mai te korōua.

    Ko te whakamatakū tēra.

    Māmā noa iho ki a ia ki te kihikihi ia mātou tau.

    Kāre he, i wēra wā he pai ki te patu tamariki.

    He never came through the front gate. We would be there making a racket in kapa haka. Aunty Tira would be going mad because of our mischief behavior, we never listened to her.

    Then the old man would appear.

    We were terrified of him.

    He had no problems in booting us up the arse.

    There were no issues in hitting children in those days.

    Kāre pēnei i ēnei rā, kā haria koe, kā hāmenetia koe i roto i te koti. Nōreira koirā taku mahara ia au e tamariki anā. Ki tēnei mea ko te tapu, i te mea ko ngā kuia pēnei ia Grace Maxwell, te mama ō te Tawhiro. Hē kuia Kōhetehete katoa tera.

    A Ka, kuia Kōhetehete katoā wēra, ēngari ko ngā toa o te Delamere Cup i tēra wā. Kō Pungarehuwai, kō Waioeka, ko Hato Hōhepa Saint Joseph's.

    Not like today, you’d be taken to court and charged. Those are the things I recall from when I was young. Tapu was real then because you had elderly women like Grace Maxwell around, Tawhiro’s mother.

    Those elderly women would scold us.

    Kā would also scold us. They were the Delamere Cup champions in those days. There was Pungarehuwai, Waioeka and St. Joseph's.

    I te mea kō Nancy Peka, ka haere katoā ngā Gages, ngā wēra whanau ō Māori town ki tēra kura. Anā ko te Kuia rā a Tira me Uncle Ben te whakaako ia Pungarehuwai. Anā kōwai atu hoki, ngā mea o roto ia Ngāti Ira ki te Whakaako ia rātou, a mē Ōmāio. I wēra wā ko ngā kura ō Te Whanau a Apanui kāre kau hē Rakuraku.

     

     

    Kō mātou ngā mea o te tāone i mahi rakuraku engari ko rātou kāre kau he rakuraku.

    Because Nancy Peka and the Gages, the families from Māori town all attended that school. And the old lady Tira and Uncle Ben tutored Pungarehuwai. Who else was there? There were those from Ngāti Ira who were tutoring and Ōmāio. In those days, the Te Whānau-a-Apanui schools didn’t have a guitar. 

     

     

    Us townies used a guitar; they didn’t have a guitar.

    I ahau i te whakataetae o te Delamere Cup, Kāre kau he rakuraku. Kā wini ia rātou, kā wini ia mātou.

    Ko ngā poi i ēra wā i ngā Kapa haka o te Kaha,

    Ko te Raupō tonu.

    Pēnei ahau he brown paper kē, ēngari kō te raupo kē. Nō muri ke mai, ka whakapākeha te poi. Anā kā mea tia ko te Brown paper.

    Kia rite tonū ki te Raupō, kātahi kā huri ki te Plastic.

    When I competed in the Delamere Cup, there was no guitar. They would win and then we would win consecutively.

    The poi in those days in the Te Kaha groups were made of raupō.

     

    I thought it was brown paper, but it was actually raupō. It wasn't until later that plastic poi were used. Brown paper was used to resemble raupō before we started using plastic.

    Kātahi kā huri ki te māwhero, kā mea tia te Pepā whero. Koirā taku maharā, ko te Kareti ō Ōpotiki te kura toa. I ēra wā mē Te Whanau a Apanui.

    Kō Mana Pirihi mā, kō taku tuakana a Te Kepa mā.

    A 1970 South Auckland festival.

    They were pink too, we used red paper. That’s what I recall, Ōpōtiki College were the champs in those days, alongside Te Whānau-a-Apanui.

    There was Mana Pirihi, my older brother, Te Kēpa and others.

    In 1970, there was a South Auckland festival.

    I tēra wā mai Te Kauwhata, ki Te Kaha ki Tongariro.

    Koirā te Rohe.

    The region extended from Te Kauwhata to Te Kaha, all the way through to Tongariro.

    Wī pīki rohe tonu.

    What a huge region!

    Pīki Rohe. Kā wini ia Te Whanau a Apanui te mea tuatahi, kā tuarua ā Ōpotiki, anā kā tuatoru kō Rotorua.

    It was a huge region. Te Whānau-a-Apanui won the first competition. Ōpōtiki came second and Rotorua placed third.

    Tē mea tuarua 1972 tū ki roto ō Kimiora.

    Koirā te tau i whakatūwheratia ai ā Kimiora, ka tū ai te ka tu te South Auckland Festival ki reirā.

    In 1972, the second competition was held in Kimiora. Kimiora was officially opened that year and the South Auckland Festival was held there.

    Anā ka wini kō Ōpotiki mai Tawhiti. Opotiki College arohamai, Anā tuarua koō te Whanau a Apanui. Tuatoru ko Huntly College, ko Tuku Morgan te Kaitātaki. Koirā aku tūmanakotanga i ēra wā.

    And ko uncle Ben Gauge te whakaako ia Te Whanau a Apanui mē Opotiki i te wā kotahi.

    Ōpōtiki College won and Te Whānau-a-Apanui placed second.

    Huntly College came third. Tuku Morgan was the leader. That was my passion at the time.

    Uncle Ben Gauge was tutoring both Te Whānau-a-Apanui and Ōpōtiki at the same time.

    I roto i te whare paku tonu ai, e ono peā taku tau ēra i tēra wā. Kā noho au i roto i te whare i Turangawaewae e noho nā a Opotiki College, me Te whanau a Apanui area school ki Parehaukraki.

    I was only young then; I might have been six years old.

    I stayed in the house at Tūrangawaewae marae where Ōpōtiki College and the Te Whānau-a-Apanui area school were staying, in Parehauraki.

    Kō Parehauraki rāua tahi i roto i te whare kotahi. Kāa kākahutia e Te Whanau a Apanui kei reira te koroua e karakia anā a Ben Gage. Ka kākahutia e Ōpotiki kei reirā ia e Karakia ana ae.

    Koiā te, i ngā kapa e rua. Kā tuatahi, heoi anō koinā anā ka uru au i roto ēra ki roto i te Kāreti.

    Ā kō Dan Rangi tētahi ō mātou kaiako.

    Te tama ā Rawinia, auntie ō Nāpo.

    Kō Dan, first cousins rāua.

    Both groups stayed in the same house, in Parehauraki. Te Whānau-a-Apanui were getting changed while the old man, Ben Gauge was performing karakia. When Ōpōtiki were getting changed, he was there performing karakia.

    Those were the two teams. They won. I entered that team when I attended college.

    Dan Rangi was one of our tutors. Rāwinia’s son, she was an aunty to Ngāpō. He and Dan were first cousins.

    Kōtahi noa tāna.

    He only had one.

    Rawinia rangi nera?

    Rāwinia Rangi?

    Yeah Rangi.

    Yeah Wehi.

    Yeh, Rangi.

    Yeh, Wehi.

    Kōtahi noa tāna ringaringa, engari tau ki te Haka.

    Tana whanau tau ki te waiata peēnei anoō i teēnei rāa tau ki te waiata. 

    Anā tāea ai ē ia te tiki mai tē Pungarehu.

    Te ash oō te Hikareti mā tāna ringaringa, kare kau e pakaru i te mea pēnei noa wāna pona me ka pēnei nā. Engari tēna koroua, ka kurua mātou ki te rākau.

    Ka whiua kia mātou, i rungā mātou i te atāmira i te kāreti.

    He only had one arm, but he was a skilled haka performer. 

     

    His family were great singers, they still are today.

     

    He could pick up the ash of a cigarette without breaking it because his elbow was only small like this.

    The old man would strike us with a stick.

     

    He’d throw it at us while we were on stage at college.

    Kei raro ia, mōhio koe ki tēra atāmira.

    Kā kurua he rākau kia mātou, kā kangakanga kia mātou. Kāre he kangakanga engari i roto i te reo māori, tau tēra Koroua ki te haka. Nāna te Kapa Haka ō Ngāti Ira i ēra wā i whakatuwherā ia Whiripare.

     

    Mō Ngāti Ira te kapa haka, Ngāti Ira.

    Te Kapa Haka o tēra wā, i muri mai o Waioeka ko Ngāti Ira, tēra Kapa Haka.

    He’d be below, you know the stage.

    He’d throw a stick at us and curse us.

    He would curse in Māori.

    He was a skilled haka performer.

    He established the Ngāti Ira haka group at the time.

     

     

    The haka group at the time was for Ngāti Ira. The Ngāti Ira haka group came after Waioeka.

    Nōreira koinei ngā ako.

    Mrs.Mordeson, Josie Mordeson. Kā tū ia i mua i ngā wāhine kā “Wahine mā me heu ō koutou kēkē.” te weriweri hoki, kua mea ia.

     

    Kāre te kuia ra i te kōrero pākeha, māori, kā ki mai “Ko wai mā kei te hiahia kite i ērā huruhuru weriweri?” 

    Engari kei te ako ia mātou kia tau i ō mātou kākahu.

    Koia.

    These are the things I learnt.

    Mrs. Mordeson, Josie Mordeson. She would stand in front of the women, “Ladies, you need to shave your armpits”. Yuck.

     

     

     

    The old lady didn’t speak Māori. She’d say, “Who wants to look at those hairy monsters”?  

     

    She taught us how to perfect our uniforms.

    Kia mā tonū nēra?

    So, they were tidy?

    Kia mā tonu, kia Rangatira tonū. Koirā ngā ako, ka kuhu au ki roto o Waioeka, i au tonu i te Hāikura. Pai wēra mahi i te kura, ko ngā hoa ka tūtaki mōhio koe ki ō hoariri i te Delamere Cup.

    Mōhio koe ki o hoa ngā whakawhanaungā.

    Keep them tidy and revered. Those are the things I learnt. I joined Waioeka when I was still in high school. I enjoyed that while I was at school, you’d meet friends and come to know who your enemies were in the Delamere Cup.

    You’d come to know your friends, who were your relations.

    Kua moe ngā Kaiwhakawā, pēra ia Johnny Coleman. Tēra koroua a Johnny Coleman kua moe ke, kua korōua kē nēra. Kei te whakawā ia i te Delamere Cup, kei te ngōngoro te koroua, ka aho ake kua mutu kē.

    The judges would fall asleep, the likes of Johnny Coleman.

    The old man, Johnny Coleman would fall asleep, he was old at the time. He’d be snoring while he was judging the Delamere Cup, when he woke up it was all over. 

    I ēra kei rēira ngā kaiako, ngā kaiwhakawā kei te kaipaipa. Ēra wā kaipaipa katoā, i roto i te hōro. 

     

    Ko ngā tamariki kei te mahi Haka haka, arā kē mea.

     

    Ko mātou tonū te kai paipa.

    Ko mātou tonū te kai paipa, whanako i ngā paipa.

    The teachers and judges would be smoking, everyone smoked in those days, in the hall. While the students were performing.

     

    While the students were performing.

     

     

    We also smoked.

    We’d steal smokes.

    Nōreira kā pakeke mai. Kā pakeke mai koe kā uru atu koe ki roto i ngā rārangi ō Waioeka?

    So, when you grew older, you joined Waioeka?

    Ae, engari i mua o tēra kō ngāa mahi Kāreti.

    Kā hoahoa koe ki ngā mea ō Te Arawa, ia Warwick Morehu a, ia Wēteni mā, ia Timi te Pō mā.

    Yes, but before that I performed at college and befriended the Te Arawa lot, there was Warwick Mōrehu, Wētini, Timitepō and others.

    I te mea koirā te whānuitanga o te Rohengā nē?

    Is that because the region extended that far?

    Rotorua lake, I te mea ko tō mātou auntie Mate, Mate koirā tētahi o wā mātou tino kaiako o mātou ko Mate Rēweti, i mua ia Tom Rēweti nō Ngati Ranginui.

    Anā kō Mate nō Ngāti Porou, nō Tikitiki.

     

    Kō taku mōhio anō te whānau Dewes, rawe mō te waiata. Kō ia tonu tētahi o ngā kaiako i te wā i wini a Ōpotiki College.

     

    Kō ia taku kaiakō tuatahi i Puangarehuwai, i Ashbrook, kua mate. Ako ia mātou “Karanga Aotearoa e”.

     

     

    Koirā taku Waiata-a-ringa tuatahi i te Whakataetae.

    “E nga iwi o te Motu e” 

    I wēra wa ka mahi a, ē hara i te himene, e hara i te waiata tira engari choral i ēra wā, ko tā mātou choral Whakāria mai. 

    I mahi titi tōrea i ēra wā ngā tamariki, mōhio katoā mātou ki te mahi Titi Tōrea i te hopu i ngā mea, Coordination ne.

    As far as Lake Rotorua. Aunty Mate was one of our favourite tutors, Mate Rēweti. She married Tom Rēweti from Ngāti Ranginui. 

     

    Mate was from Ngāti Porou, from Tikitiki. 

    I think she was from the Dewes family. She was an excellent singer. She was one of the teachers when Ōpōtiki College won.

     

    She was my first tutor at Pungarehuwau, at Ashbrook, she’s since passed. “She taught us, Karanga Aotearoa e”.

     

    That was my first action song in a competition.

    “E ngā iwi o te Motu e”.

    In those days, we didn’t call it a hīmene or a waiata tira, instead we called it the choral. Whakaaria mai was our choral.

    We performed the titi tōrea. We all knew how to do the titi tōrea, how to catch them, we had coordination.

    Kā noho te tītī tōrea i roto i te wāhangā mōtuhakē?

    Was tītī tōrea a compulsory item?

    Motuhakē mō te Delamere Cup, mo te Novis. Nāwai rā kā mutu ia mātou i te kura, Kāa teā kupu o Te Wharehuia ma, “Kā Māro Mahuika” innovative.

    Kā nui te whiu o tē rākau, wēra mea i te wā ia mātou pēnei noa te, (Ka waiata me te whakaatu mahi-a-ringa)

    Kei konā mātou e kautē hāere ana, “Tahi, rua, toru, wha, e rua,ki waho, ki roto”. Āe, wēra mea.

    Kua kore tēna i kōnei ināianei, kua kore tēra tūmomo āhuatanga.

    Pai pēna kaā whakahokia mai.

    Ā kō Maraenui pea te kura kei te mau tonū i ētahi wā, ahakoa he whakangāhau.

    Kō Te Kura Mana Māori ō Maraenui tonū kei te pūpuri i tēra āhuatanga.

    Engari he tāonga tēra mai rāno, tē Titi Tōrea.

    Anā kā mutu tēra ki te taka I a koe i tō rākau kā tino whakamā koe nēra.

    Kei reirā ngā tamariki e, kei te rere ana tō rākau kei reira ngā tamariki e tārai ana ki te hopu ngā rākau kā whakahokia mai.

    I rēira i ako mātou i tēnei mea ko te whakataetae.

    Ko te Delamere Cup, a te Kōhanga o te Kapa haka i roto.

    It was in the Delamere Cup in the Novis section. 

    Eventually I left school,

    We used weaponry a lot in those days, like (Sings and demonstrates actions)

    We would count, “One, two, three, four, two, out, in.”

    You rarely see it now; it isn’t practiced anymore.

    It would be good if it was revived.

    Maraenui School still practices it sometimes, although it’s just for entertainment.

    Te Kura Mana Māori o Maraenui still hold onto those things.

     

    The titi tōrea is a traditional practice. If you dropped your stick, you’d be very embarrassed.

     

    Your stick would be flying while the students are there trying to catch it and bring it back.

     

    The Delamere Cup is where we learnt about competing, it was the start of kapa haka.

    Kōrero mai he aha ngā kōrero mōo te Delamere Cup?

    Tell us about the Delamere Cup.

    Te Delamere Cup, tāonga nui tēnei ō kōnei. Tāku mōhio nō te, kei te hē pea?

    Engari 1956 pea 1958 tēra takiwā, kā kī ētahi 1960.

    Engari kite au i tētahi whakāhua kō Pungarehuwai kei roto te mea tuatahi. kō rāua ko Kutarere. Ngā kura tuarua, tuatahi i timata ai te whakataetae ra.

    He kapu tēra tawhito, koia pea tetahi o ngā whakataetae, kaumātua ō ngā whakataetae katoā o te motu. Taku whakapai ko te mea pakeke ake i tēra kō te Tamararo. 

    Engari nō muri kē mai anā ko te Delamere cup.

    Koia te Kōhanga mō ngā kura ō Te Whanau a Apanui, Ngai Tai, Whakatohea, a Te Waimana Kāku.

     

     

    Ētahi tāima a uru mai a Murupara i roto i te whakataetae.

    The Delamere Cup is the big trophy here. To my knowledge, I may be wrong, it started in 1956 or 1958, some say 1960.

    I’ve seen a photo with Pungarehuwai in the first competition, alongside Kutarere.

    The two secondary schools that started the competition.

    It’s an old trophy, it’s one of the oldest competitions in the country.

    I think Tamararo is the oldest.

    The Delamere Cup follows that.

    It is the starting point of kapa haka within Te Whānau-a-Apanui, Ngāi Tai, Te Whakatōhea and Te Waimana Kāku.

     

    Murupara would join the competition from time to time.

    Kia Ora

    Thank you.

    Ae. Ā engari o roto ia Mataatua koirā te whakataetae kaumātua ō te katoā.

    Koinā pea e pai ai tēnei kāinga ki te Kapa Haka.

    I mua noa atu i tēra tau te iwi ki te Kapa Haka. 

     

    Mea mai a Nanny Hiria, i mua rā kō te Pou Tāpita i waho nei. Wareware i au i te Kapu, engari e mea ana kua tū te Kāwana Tianara i runga i ngā tepe o te Pou Tāpita tāwhito.

    Victorian, pēnei te whare Kōti i roto o Hamutana.

    Pēra te āhua, pēra i te wharetāonga nei.

    Anā ka haramai ko te whakaeke mai, kā hikoi haere mai te tiriti nei.

    It’s the oldest competition within Mātaatua. 

     

    Perhaps that is why this area is good at kapa haka.

    Prior to that, the people were skilled at kapa haka.

    Nanny Hiria said, Pou Tāpita was out here.

    I forgot the cup, but the Governor General stood on the old post office steps.

     

    It was Victorian, like the courthouse in Hamilton. It was like that, similar to a museum.

    They would come, they would walk on, walking this street.

    Koirā te roa mō te whakaeke, kā tae atu ki te papa Whutupōro. Kei rēira te ātamira, kā whakaeke.

    Engari kua timata te whakaeke i konei.

     

    Kua hipa atu i te Governor general, taku mōhio e tū ana. Kā mea mai ko te korōua rā ā Te Wehi me tāna Kapa Haka. Kō te haere a Te Wehi i waho nei.

     Ka mea mai a ia me a, Te Haukari Akurangi, ngā Toa ki te mau Taiaha. Engari kō Te Wehi e haere atu ana i raro rā ki te kōrero atu ki te kūia nei.

     

    Kua whiu i tāna Taiaha ki runga.

    Ka mahi anā mahi, kāa tikina mai.

    Tāna haramai i waho nei, anā kā whakeke rātou i runga i te atāmira kā rere a Te Wehi me tāna taiaha, kua Peruperu tāna.

    That was how long the walk on was before arriving at the rugby field. The stage was there, so they walked on.

    But the walk on began here. 

     

    They’d pass the Governor General, who was standing, to my knowledge. That is what the kōroua Te Wehi and his kapa said.

    Te Wehi would go out here. 

    It was said that he and Te Haukari Akurangi were the champions when it came to wielding the taiaha. Te Wehi would go down and speak to the elderly woman.

     

    He would brandish his taiaha up there, doing his thing, it was accepted. He would come out here and they would ascend the stage, Te Wehi would float about with his taiaha, then he’d perform the peruperu.

    Koirā, nōreira mai nō mua atu ēngari ko te Delamere Cup, te whakataetae Kaumātua o te katoā o roto mai o Mataatua i ēnei rā. 

     

    Koiā te Kōhanga, koinā pea e pakari nei na Kapa Haka o tēnei moka. I te mea kei kōnei te whakapapa kia Waioeka, kia Ngā pōtiki. Wēra kapa haka kaumātua, Ngā Pōtiki, Waioeka, Ngāti Ira, Te Whakatohea, wēra kapa haka.

     

    Nōreira i au i te kura, ka kuhu au ki roto.

    Ka waea mai a Aunty Nan, Nan Peka ki au tētahi ata kura.

    So, it all began much earlier but the Delamere Cup is the oldest competition today in the Mātaatua region.

     

    That’s where it all began and perhaps that’s why the kapa haka in this region are strong. Because of the connections to Waioeka and Ngā Pōtiki. Those main haka groups, there’s Ngā Pōtiki, Waioeka, Ngāti Ira and Te Whakatōhea.

     

    When I was at school, I joined.

    Aunty Nan, that’s Aunty Nan Peka, rang me one morning at school.

    I te whakarite ahau te haere au ki te kura tuarua, ko tāku whakapai I te reanga wha ahau. Ka wāea mai te kuia nei kia kuhu atu au. I te mea haramai mātou te mātakitaki i ngā konohete o Waioeka i ēra wā.

     

    He Kapa Haka, haere ki te mahi kohikohi moni mo ngā kaupapa. 

     

    Ana kua moe kē a Ngā Pōtiki i ēra wā, ko rātou te Taumata. 

    Noreira tūmanakotia atu kia uru atu ki roto o tēra Kapa Haka.

    Mōhio au ka kuhu atu au ki tēra Kapa Haka.

    Mahara au i te wā i wini a Karauria Eruiti, Uncle Claude Edwards.

    I was getting ready to go to high school, I might have been in 4th Form. The old lady rang me and asked me to join. We would go and watch the Waioeka concerts in those days.

     

    Kapa haka at the time was about fundraising for various events.

     

    Ngā Pōtiki wasn’t performing anymore, they were the top.

    I was hoping I might join that group.

     

    I knew I’d join that group. I remember when Uncle Claude Edwards, Uncle Karauria Eruiti won.

    Wini ā ia te te Pāmu Māori o Aotearoa, Te Ahuwhenua Cup.

    Kā whakawhiwhia ki a ia ki runga o Maro Mutu.

    E te Minitā Māori i tēra wā kō Duncan MacIntyre.

    Tēna pīki kapu.

    Kō Waioeka te Kapa haka whakapōhiri i te Minita, pōhiri i te kapu.

    He won the NZ Māori Farmer award, the Te Ahuwhenua Cup.

     

    He received it at Maro Mutu. The Minister of Māori Affairs at the time was Duncan Macintyre.

    It was a big prize.

    Waioeka welcomed the Minister and the cup.

    Kā mahara au pakupaku ana au, kei te parakatihi rātou. Pēra te nui o ngā kapa haka i ēra wā.

    Kō te Kapa haka katoā kei roto i te wharenui e parakatihi ana. 

    Kāre pēnei ia tātou me pātiki rawa, me whīra, whīira whutupōro rawa.

     

    Nā te nui o te tangata, ko rātou e parakatihi ana.

    Mahara au e mau ana I o rātou Korowai.

    He mā, ko ngāhuruhuru, ngā wūru he whero he pango, taku kite atu.

    Kei reira kei te whātaretare i te, te whatitoka o Tū Tamore e mākitaki ana i ngā pakeke.

    I remember, I was very young, they were practicing.

    That’s how many haka groups there were back then.

    The whole haka group was in the dining hall practicing. It wasn't like today where we needed a paddock or rugby field.

     

    Because there’re so many people, they were practicing.

    I remember they were wearing their cloaks.

    The feathers were white, the wool was red and black.

    I was there peering through the door of Tū Tāmore watching the elders.

    1976, Nōreira pea 10 pea taku tau i teera waa.

    E whātaretare atu ana, e mātakitaki ana.

    Te reka o te waiata, te kaha o te waiata i te mea ko mātou i tēra wā, 10 kua whakataetae kē ahau i roto i te Delamere Cup, i roto i te Novis te Delamere.

    Kei reirā ē moemoeatia atu rā, “Pirangi au te uru atu ki roto i tēra Kapa haka”.

     

    Ana ka pōhiritia, kā tukuna te kapu ki te Korōua rā kia Karauria. Ko rātou kei te whakangāhau.

    Tēra rā kā hoatu e te Kāwanatanga te Haki, he Haki hou Upoko Hapa.

     

    Ko, anā mahara au te kuia rā a Hēni e whakararangi ana i te taha o te Pou Haki a Waioeka, ana ka hiki te haki.

    It was 1976, so I might have been about 10 then. Watching as I peered through the door.

    The singing was strong and sweet. Because I was only 10, when we competed in the Novis section of the Delamere Cup.

     

    I dreamed about joining that group.

     

    I was welcomed to join, the old man Karauria was given the cup, they were entertaining.

    The Government gave the flag…

    I recall the old lady Hēni lining everyone up next to the Waioeka flagpole and they raised the flag.

    Te Haki nui rā, kei reira tonu?

    The big flag that’s still there?

    Tēra wā 1976 pea tēra.

    Ko rātou e rārangi ana ki te taha o te wharenui engari e angā atu ana ki te pou haki.

     

    Ko te kuia rā e mea whakarārangi ana i ngā, wāna tāngata. Ko Te Oke mā, e whakarārangi ana ia rātou.

     

     

    Ka hiki te hāki, a te Upoko Hapa. Āna kei rēira rātou e waiata-ā-ringa

    That was in 1976.

    They lined up next to the meeting house facing the flagpole.

     

    The old lady was lining her group up.

    Te Oke and others were lining themselves up.

     

    The Te Upoko Haka flag was raised, and they performed the action song.

    Atāhua.

    Stunning.

    Koinā i Te Ahuwhenua Cup, wēra tikanga i kite au.

     

     

    Ko te kaiwero i tēra wā kō Blossom Paruru te pāpā o Uncle Robyn. Tau ia ki te Maurākau.

    Anā koirā ka kuhu atu au ki roto i te, te Kapa Haka o Waioeka. Nui-a-Kiwa i tēra wā. I te mea i hurihia te ingoa e Aunty Jane Heni me Aunty Nan kia Nui-a-Kiwa kia kuhu mai ko te katoa.

     

    I te mea i ēra wā kua parakatihi rātou me te Whare wānanga o Waikato. Kua mahi moni rātou mo Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato.

     

    Ki te tuku ia Te Whare wānanga o Waikato ki tāwāhi. Tū ngā Kōnehete ki roto o Founders theatre te wā e hau ana.

    That was for the Te Ahuwhenua Cup, where I saw those practices.

     

    Blossom Paruru was the kaiwero then, Uncle Robyn’s father.

    He knew how to brandish a weapon. 

    So, I joined Waioeka. They were known as Waioeka-nui-a-Kiwa then. Aunty Jane Hēni and Aunty Nan changed the name to Waioeka-nui-a-Kiwa to include everyone.

     

    They practiced with Waikato University then.

     

     

    They would fundraise for the University of Waikato.

    So, that the University of Waikato could travel overseas.

    The concerts would take place in the Founders Theatre when it was brand new.

    Me Taniwharau, tino piri i te mea ko Waioeka haere ai ki te Koroneihana.

    Ana kua mahi mē te Whare wānanga me Taniwharau. Anā i era wā kua whakawhitiwhiti, kua kuhu mai ngā mea o Taniwharau ki roto o Waioeka. 

     

    Ana ko ngā Herewini ēra o tēra, te tungāne o te māma o Ora Kihi mā. A Haupae, Haupae Herewini me tāna wahine a Puggie. 

    Kaare au mōhio kō wai te ingoa, Marian pea te ingoa a Pug. A kā noho wā rāua tamariki i kōnei, kura ai me mātou ki te Kāreti o Opotiki. A Donella mā, me wāna teina.

    Nōreira koira tēna.

    Noreira ka kuhu atu au i tēra wā ko Waioeka Nui-a-Kiwa i roto tētahi tangata ko Achilles.

    Taniwharau too, they were close because Waioeka would attend the Coronation.

    So, they worked together with Waikato University and Taniwharau. In those days, they would swap around, ones from Taniwharau would join Waioeka.

     

    The Herewini family were some, Orakihi’s mum’s brother was one. Haupae Herewini and his wife Puggie. I don’t know Pug’s name; it might have been Marian. Their children stayed here and went to school with us at Ōpōtiki College. Donella and her younger sisters.

     

    So that’s that.

    When I joined Waioeka-nui-a-Kiwa, there was a man by the name of Achilles in the group.

    Pai mo te kōrero māori, pai mo te Haka engari āhua Hainamana nei tāna āhua, ia mātou i te mea i te kura mātou ahua rerekē tāna āhua, engari tau ki tāna.

    Pātaihia tāna ingoa i tētahi rangi “Kōwai to ingoa?”

    “Ko Achilles Chonga Fong”

    Fong a Chong.

    Kā kata mātou ngā tamariki māori,” He hainamana koe?

     

    Engari tau ki te hāwhe Māori, hāwhe hainamana pea.

     

    Achillies Fonga Chong ko ia te kaiako māori i Western Springs.

    Nāna te kaupapa, ko taku mōhio i huri ko Waiorea.

    He was versed in Māori and good at haka, but he looked Chinese, this is when we were at school, he looked a little different, but he was good at haka.

    One day, we asked him, “What’s your name?”

    “My name is Achilles Chonga Fong.”


    Us Māori kids cracked up laughing, “Are you Chinese?”

     

    But he must have been half Māori, half Chinese.

     

    Achilles Chonga Fong, he was the Māori teacher at Western Springs.

    I believe he instigated the change to Waiorea.

    Kia ora.

    Nōreira he aha te momo tāera tū o tēra Kapa?

    Wow.

    What is their style of performance?

    O Waioeka?

     

     

    Waioeka.

    Of Waioeka?

     

     

    Yes, Waioeka.

    Whakamataku. 

     

    I te mea kua mōhio kē mātou ki wēra tāera ako, ko Uncle Ben mā.

    Māmā nōa ki te riri, ki te whakamatakū i te tangata aye?

    Fearsome.

     

    We were already familiar with that style of learning with Uncle Ben and others.

    We have no qualms at showing anger towards or scaring others, aye?

    I haere ia ki te pakanga

    Kōuru tāngata, ko tāna reo te reo o Uncle Ben, kā tū o makawē nē, tāna tātaki i te haka.

     

    Ka whakanoho ia mātou ia mātou e tamariki ana, ko te mea potopoto o te Kapa Haka, ko ia ka tau ki raro.

    Me tau katoa mātou na mea āhua tōrea kia rite ki te hahaka o te mea pakupaku.

     

     

    Ko Pundi Kaki tētahi, Mark Kaki tangata potopoto.

    A tuku i a ia ki raro.

    Ko mātou katoua me tau pēra rawa te, ka haramai a Uncle Ben mea tia te tūru ki raro ia mātou tau ka tangohia me noho pēra.

    Matakū noa mātou ki te tū ki runga, ka kī ki a mātou tau, ka patua mātou.

    Koira te,i te tū, whaanuingā waewae, Tautaurohoroho.

     

    Kia tautau ngā raho, kia tū pēnei te Tekoteko nei engari kia tū pakari.

     

    He Haka Taparahi katoā ngā haka a Te Whakatohea?

     

    Ia mātou i te kura, te whakatūwheratanga ō Kura ki Uta, kao.

     

    I te mea i au i Pungarehuwai Uncle Ben, he Tangata mau taiaha, toa.

    Well, he went to war., he killed people. 

    The hair on your neck would stand up at the sound of Uncle Ben’s voice when he led the haka. 

     

    He would sit us down when we were young. 

    The shortest one in the haka team would assume the haka stance and everyone needed to match the shortest one’s stance.

     

    Pundi Kāki was one, Mark Kāki, he was a small man.

    He’d instruct him to go down.

    We all had to match his stance. Uncle Ben would come along and put the seat underneath us and then take it away and we had to remain in that stance.

    We were afraid to stand up, lest we be kicked in the behind or smacked.

    That was the stance, legs widespread, balls dangling.

     

    The balls should be sandling, standing like a tekoteko, and stiff.

     

    Were the haka in Te Whakatōhea all haka taparahi?

     

    When we were at school, the opening of Kura ki Uta, no.

     

    When I was at Pungarehuwai, Uncle Ben was a gun at the taiaha.

    Nā Ngākohu a ia, nā Ngākohu a ia i ako. Koirā pea ngā tauira o Ngākohu a Uncle Ben.

    Ko Uncle Hori Hata, ngā mea e mōhio au. Ko Uncle Danny pea tētahi.

     

    Engari nā Uncle Ben kō Tūterangi Gage.

    Kite au ia Tūterangi e whakatūwhera ana i te Waharoa e whiti ana.

    I te wā o te rā nehu o Uncle Monita. Wehi rawa, kare pekepeke, māro tonu.

    Mōhio koe nā te koroua nā Uncle Ben.

    Kei Uncle Danny ētahi kōrero mo Uncle Ben mō te whakatūwheratanga o te Wharekai i Whitiana waiho māna.

     

    Engari ia uncle Ben.

    Taku mahara ki ngā mahi haka pea, whakaeke pea a Pungarehuwai taku tuakana i roto, Mau Taiate.

    I te mea ia mātou i Ashbrook, i roto i to mātou Physed shed, nui ngāTaiaha e putu ana.

    Kei ngā whānau ināianei ēna punua taiaha.

     

    Noreira koira ngā ako a uncle Ben, ko ngā haka i roto o Ngā Pōtiki he mau taiaha.

    Ngā whakāhua kua kite au o taku kuia he mau Taiaha.

     

    Nōreira ia mātou i te kāreti. Te whakatūwhera ia Kura ki Uta 1981, tā mātou haka kō “Te Pūru”.

     

    Nā mea maa i ako ia mātou ki te Puru na Wharekawa mā. Te koroua a Wharekawa mā, ako ia mātou ki te Pūru.

    Ngākohu taught him. Ngākohu taught Uncle Ben, Uncle Hōri Hana, those are the ones I know and maybe Uncle Danny.

     

    Uncle Ben taught Tūterangi Gauge.

    I witnessed Tūterangi opening the waharoa in Whitianga.

    During Uncle Mōnita’s funeral. He was frightening, he didn’t leap about, he was dead stiff. You knew immediately, Uncle Ben taught him.

    Uncle Danny has a few stories about Uncle Ben and the opening of the dining hall at Whitianga, he can tell them.

     

    However, Uncle Ben.

    What I can recall about haka and whakaeke was my older brother in Pungarehuwai, he used the taiaha.

    When we were at Ashbrook, there were plenty of taiaha.

    The different families have those little taiaha now. 

     

    Those were Uncle Ben’s teachings. The haka in Ngā Pōtiki were performed with taiaha.

    The photographs I’ve seen of my grandmother, she held a taiaha.

     

    When we were at college for the opening of Kura ki Uta in 1981, our haka was Te Pūru.

     

    Wharekawa and others, Wharekawa’s grandfather and others taught us the haka Te Pūru.

    Kaua ki te wahanga tuatahi,

    (Haka)

     

    I tēra wā “E kore te Riri e tae mai nei ki kōnei i te ture o te Mate, Pukouautia koa, aha, aha, aha te riri ē”

    Not the first section.

    (Haka kupu)

     

    At that time, it was “E kore te riri e tae mai ki konei i te ture o te mate, pūkawautia koe, aha, aha, aha te riri, e.”

    Kia Ora.

    Wow.

    Koira ngā kupu ako mai ia mātou, ka hoki ano” 

    (Haka)

     

    Kāre haere ko ngā Ngirangira, ko ngā ota ki korā noa iho.

     

     

    Koira pea te mau tonu ia Ngāti Ira, i tēnei wā kāre au mōhio pēna ko ngā Ngirangira, kāre au mōhio.

    Engari koira tāku ia mātou, koira te haka pōhiri i te whakatūwheratanga o Kura ki Uta.

    Those are the words we were taught and that was repeated.

    (Performs haka)

     

    We didn’t go into the next part.

    (Performs haka)

     

    That is the way Ngāti Ira still performs it today, I’m not sure if they include the other part.

    But that’s how we performed it as the welcome haka at the opening of Kura ki Uta.

    Noreira he wewehi te tāera tū o te iwi?

    So, the tribe's stance is a fearsome one?

    Whakamatakū, ko ngā kaiako te whakamatakū.

    Ka wehe mātou ia rātou, i te mea kāre te huna o te kupu, ka pana ia koe ki waho, kāre he.

    Ki te kore koe e u, e pono, ki te takahi koe ia rātou, patua koe, Patua patua kia tangi nei koe.

    Ka haere atu ano ki ngā mātua kia rātou, ka patua ki ngā mātua, ae wēra, wēra ako. 

    Noreira koira te ako e mōhio au. I kuhu atu au ki roto o Waioeka.

     

    E pēra i te mea i te mōhio māou ki te Tautaurahoraho.

    Engari he kura anō a Waioeka, i raro ia Heni mā, i raro ia Heni. Wahine

    It’s frightening, inspired by the tutors.

    We were terrified of them. They weren't afraid to say what they thought or to kick you out.

    If you were not committed or loyal, if you disobeyed them, they would hit you, they would hit you until you cried. They would even visit the parents and hit them. It was that type of learning.

    That’s the type of learning I am familiar with. I joined Waioeka.

     

    I was already familiar with the tautauraho stance.

    However, Waioeka was another ball game under the tutelage of Hēni and others

    Wahine whakaako?

    She taught haka?

    Haka, Whakaako ia mātou ki te haka. Kāre a Uncle Ben i whakae māna ia e whakaako ki te haka, ka whawhae rāua.

    Yes, she taught us how to haka. Uncle Ben did not agree to her teaching us haka and they would squabble.

     

    Ka whakaako tonū?

    Did she continue teaching?

    Kaua ko Uncle Ben.

    Engari whakaako ia mātou.

    Wahine taikaha, engari he Wahine aroha engari wahine taikaha, taikaha. Ahakoa pēhea. Kia wini, kia wini.

    Uncle Ben, no.

    She continued teaching us. 

    She was a strict woman, empathetic too but very strict. At all costs. You must win. 

     

    Kia pēhea e rerekē ai?

    How was that different from…?

    Kia pai, kia hinga a… Koinā tāna kōrero kia mātou.

    Kia wini, kia hinga to rātou tungāne i a ia, a Ngāpo.

    In order to beat…She would tell us.

    You must win, in order to beat her cousin, Ngāpō.

    I te mea ia koro Ngāpo ia Waihirere?

    Is that because Ngāpō was instructing Waihīrere?

    A waihirere.

    Ko te koroneihana te matua.

    Kua wehe kē mai a Waioeka i te Polynesian Festival i tēra wā.

    Kāre i kuhu i roto i te Polynesian i te mea, e kii ana e mahi nanakia, he mahi kuruki nō nā te kaiwhakawā o Te Arawa. Ka wehe mai.

    Yes, Waihīrere.

    Koroneihana was the main event.

    Waioeka had already exited the Polynesian Festival at the time.

    They didn't enter the Polynesian Festival because of some deceitful deeds performed by one of the judges from Te Arawa. So, they left.

    Engari whakataetae tonu a te Koroneihana i aua wā nera?

    But the Koroneihana was still a competition then, aye?

    Aua wā, koirā te whakatetae nui kia rātou.

    Ia tau, ia tau kā parakatihi nui. Ko te Koroneihana kia wini ia rāto a Waioeka te Koroneihana.

     

    Ko rātou ki runga, ko Ngāpo ki raro. Koirā te pai i ngā wā katoa.

    Whakataetae ki to rātou tungāne kia Ngāpo.

     

    Nōreira wēra whakapapa nēra.

    Ko ngā tamariki kei roto rā ko Tangiwai mā, tēra hono.

     

    Kuhu atu au ki roto i tēra, te kuia rā

    Koirā nōa iho te mahi, all day saturday, all day sunday haka.Kāre mahi poi, kāre mahi  waiata aringa, haka, haka, haka.

     

    Kua māku katoa te papa i te werawera.

    O ae, ki ngā hāora o te ata mai te 9 pea i te ata ki te whā, toru, wha i te ata.

    Ngā rangi pēnei, kāre he kaka i te mea kua wēra koe.

    Yes. That was the main competition in their eyes.

    They would practice hard every year in the hope that Waioeka would take out the Koroneihana.

     

    In the hope that they would win and Ngāpō would lose. That was the main objective.

    They were competing against their cousin, Ngāpō.

     

    There’s those connections.

    The young ones in there at the time were Tangiwai and others and there's more connections there.

     

    So, I joined Waioeka. Gee whiz, that old lady.

    We did haka, all day Saturday and all-day Sunday. We didn't do the poi or action songs; all we did was haka.

     

    The ground was soaking wet with sweat.

    We went all hours, from nine in the morning to three or four in the morning.

    During days like this, you wouldn't be wearing clothes because of the heat.

    Nōreira nāwai rā ka huri ko koe te kaiako o te iwi?

     

    Tēna kōrero mai, i te mea iti noaiho te wā ia māua engari.

    Eventually, you became the tutor of the Iwi?

     

    Tell me about that because the time we have is short.

    1995 i tu te whakataetae tuatahi i konei, i roto i tēnei whare Mataatua. 1986 kā tū motuhake a Mataatua i konei. Ana koirā te hoki mai o Waioeka ki roto i ngā whakahaere.

    Ko rātou te kapa matāmua o Mataatua I roto i ngā mahi whakataetae, kei te haere tonu rātou ae.

    Ahakoa kāre he Polynesian Festival mahi tonu rātou i ngā mahi o ēra wā he Konohete.

    In 1995, the Mātaatua competition was held here, in this very hall. In 1986, Mātaatua stood independently here. Hence why Waioeka returned and started to participate again.

    They were the oldest group from Mātaatua when it came to competition and they’re still going today. Despite not being a part of the Polynesian Festival, they continued performing concerts.

    Nōreira ko rātou te toa o te rohe. Ka tū te, kā wehe mai a Mataatua.

    Ka heke atu a Mataatua, te tira o Mataatua, ko Turi te Kani, Kō Ben Gauge, ko Emma Rogers, ko Te Uru Mcgarvey, ko Te Rangi Puke. Ko Nan Peka, ko Josie Mortenson. Koinā pea, ki te kite ia tā Kiingi Ihaka.

    Ko Ia te hiamana o te Matatini i tēra wā, kīa wehea mai a Mataatua.

     

    Kia ora mai te Kapa haka ki roto i ngā pakeke.

    Kua tū kē te Ahurei, engari kia me a a Mataatua, i roto i te kēmu me kī. Ana ka tū ki konei.

    14 ngā Kapa Haka taku mahara i tēra wā, te whakataetae tuatahi a Mataatua.

    Ko Te Whanau a Apanui, ko Waioeka Nui-a-Kiwa, ko Te Whakatohea ko Te Oke mā.

    So, they were the regional champions. When Mātaatua left…

    Those in the Mātaatua group that went, were Turi te Kani, Ben Gauge, Emma Rogers, Te Uru Mcgarvey, Te Rangi Puke. There was also Nan Peka and Josie Mortenson. They went to see Sir Kīngi Ihaka who was the chairman of Te Matatini at the time about Mātaatua breaking away.

     

    So, the kapa haka here might be revived by the elders.

    The Ahurei had already been established but it was to get Mātaatua back in the game, let's say. 

    It was held here. There were fourteen teams that I can remember, in the first Mātaatua competition. 

    There was Te Whanau-a-Apanui, Waioeka-nui-a-Kiwa, Te Whakatohea, that's Te Oke and others.

    Kia ora.

    Wow.

    Wini ia rātou te Waiata A ringa.

    They won the action song.

    A Te Whakatohea?

     

     

    Ae.

    Te Whakatōhea?

     

     

    Yep.

    Ko wai to rātou Kaiako?

     

     

    Ko Te Oke mā.

     

     

    O ko Te Oke tonu?

    Who were the tutors?

     

     

    Te Oke and others.

     

     

    Oh, Te Oke?

    Ko Te Oke, a me kī ko te Wharekawa, ko Carlo mā i roto.

    Anā ko Eke Pii, ko Ngāti Awa ki Rangitaiki i tēra wā ko Eke Pī te ingoa.

     

    A ko Te Karu. Ana ko te Karu, o me Te Aranga, e hia ngā tīma o Tauranga Moana?

    Kei te haere tonu te Aranga i ēnei rā. Me tētahi tīma haramai i Tokoroa.

    14 ngā tīma, i te wā kotahi.

    Ka wini ia Waioeka, ka tuarua ko te Whanau a Apanui, ka tuatoru ko te Eke pii.

    Ko mātou ngā tīma haere ai ki Otautahi i 1986 ki te whakataetae.

     

    Anā kā mutu tēra ka mutu a Waioeka 1988, ta mātou whakataetae whakamutungā Waioeka.

    Ki te mea i muri mai a Mataatua i tuu ki Whakatane, i tuatoru mātou.

    Ko Te Whanau a Apanui, i wini a Te Whanau a Apanui i tuarua ko Ngāti awa ki Rangitaiki.

    Ka tuatoru a Waioeka.

    Yes, Te Oke. Wharekawa, Carlo and others were in the group.

    There was Eke Pī, that’s Ngāti Awa ki Rangitaiki, they were known as Eke Pī at the time.

     

    There was Te Karu, Te Aranga and teams from Tauranga.

    Te Aranga is still going today and a team from Tokoroa came too.

    In total, there were fourteen on the day.

    Waioeka won, Te Whānau-a-Apanui place second and Eke Pī came third.

    We were the teams who traveled to Christchurch to compete in 1986.

     

    After that, Waioeka finished. That was our last competition as Waioeka.

    The next Mātaatua competition was held at Whakatāne, where we placed third.

    Te Whānau-a-Apanui came won, Ngāti Awa ki Rangitaiki came second and Waioeka placed third.

    Kotahi noa te tīma ka haere?

     

    E rua.

    Did only one team go forward?

     

    Two teams.

    Ko Whanau Apanui me Ngāti Awa ki Rangitaiki.

    Anā ko te whakamoetanga tēra i ngā mahi a Waioeka i tēra wā 1988. I muri mai i tēra, kā kuhu au ki roto i Te Whanau a Apanui ki te haere ki Whangarei, engari ka makere mai.

    Nāku pea tētahi o wā rātou nekeneke i roto i tā rātou whakaeke, kia Te Rangihau, nā hau rā i whakaki, ka whakakipakipa te rohe o ngā.

    Te Whanau-a-Apanui and Ngāti Awa-ki-Rangitaiki.

    That was when Waioeka was dismantled in 1988. After that, I joined Te Whānau-a-Apanui to go to Whangārei, but I never made it.

    I created a piece of choreography in their entrance, “Ki a Te Rangihau, nāhau rā i whakakipakipa…ka whakakipakipa i te rohe o Mātaatua.”

    Anā ka haria i tēra ki runga ki Whangarei, ka tuatoru rātou.

    Arā 1988 tēra, 1989 ka haere au i muri i te hautanga ia Mokomoko. Ka haere au ki Kānata.

    Anā ka hoki mai 1990 ka kuhu atu au te Purei whutupōro te mahi Kānata.

     

    Kā hoki mai a 1990, ka wini ia Te Whanau a Tutauake, kā wehe a Te whanau a Tutauake me Te Whanau a Apanui. Ka tū a Tutauake ka wini ia rātou ia Mataatua te Kaha.

    Ka tuarua ko te Karu, ana ko Te Karu me Te Whānau Tutauake haere hei kanohi ki Waitangi 1990.

    And that was performed in Whangārei, where they placed third. 

    That was in 1988. In 1989, after Mokomoko was exhumed. I traveled to Canada and returned in 1990. I went to Canada to play rugby.

     

    I returned in 1990, Te Whānau-a-Tūtauake took it out that year. Them and Te Whānau-a-Apanui separated that year. Tūtauake won the Mātaatua competition at Te Kaha.

    Te Karu came second and both they and Te Whānau-a-Tūtauake represented the region at Waitangi in 1990.

    Engari kāre he Kapa haka o Te Whakatohea I taua wā?

     

    Te Whakatōhea didn't have a team at the time?

    Kāre kau.

    Engari kā kuhu au ki, ko au te Kaitātaki o Te whanau o Tutauake i Waitangi i 1990.

     

    I raro ia aunty Emma, I raro ia aunty Emma i raro ia Vad.

    Ko au te kaiako hoki ia Tutauake i tēra wā, ka uru au te mea kō.

    No.

    However, I was the leader of Te Whānau-a-Tūtauake at Waitangi in 1990.

     

    We were under the tutelage of Aunty Emma and Vad.

    I was also teaching Tūtauake at the time.

    Kaitito nēra?

    You were the composer?

    Tōna kaitito nei engari ko te kuia te Kaitito.

    E whai wāhi ki ngā kupu, i te mea kua i roto i ngā 80s kua tīmata au te whakaako ia Pungarehuwai i roto i te Delamere.

     

    Kua tito au mo rātou, ko au te kaiako o te Delamere cup i ēra wā.

    Anā koinei pea taku tipu pea i roto i te ao.

    Ka tangohia te waiata o uncle Ngapo mo Ngongoi.

     

    Anā ka hurihia ngā kupu pēra kia Te Kōti.

    Ka hurihia kia eke ngā kupu mō Ngoi.

    Mō te koroua rā i mate i tēra wā ko Himiona.

     

    Ko taku Haka pea i wēra wā, ko te mahi Rangatahi.

    Whakatipu i te Rangatahi, ko te Kōkiri pea te mea i tēra wā.

    Ako i ngā tamariki i te Whakairo, i te Kōwhaiwhai.

    I te whakahaerehia e Karauria i roto i te Poari, te mahi raranga, koirā taku haka.

     

    Engari kā kuhu ki roto a te Whanau a Tutauake.

     

    Ana nō muri atu ka kuhu au i roto i Te Wharewānanga o Waikato ka too ia atu au e Tīmoti ki roto i tāna Kapa haka, Ko te reo Māori

    Sort of, the old lady was the composer.

    I helped with the words. In the 80s, I started teaching Pungarehuwai for the Delamere Cup.

     

    I was composing for them, I was also teaching them for the Delamere Cup.

    That was upbringing in that world.

    We used the song composed by Uncle Ngāpō for Ngoi.

     

    And changed the words, similar to Te Kooti.

    We changed the words from being about Ngoi.

    And related them to the old man, Himiona, who had passed away at the time. 

     

    My haka at the time was, Ko Te Mahi Rangatahi, which was about raising the youth. I think Kōkiri was happening at the time. Where the youth were taught how to carve and paint kōwhaiwhai. It was facilitated by the Board, weaving too, that was my haka.

     

     

     

    However, I joined Te Whānau-a-Tūtauake.

     

    Afterward, I went to Waikato University, where I joined Tīmoti’s group, which was all in Māori.

    Te whakahaere nēra?

    The instructions?

    Te whakahaere, ahakoa te reo Māori o wāku kaiako, kei te reo pākeha a ōna wā kā reo māori, reo pākeha, reo māori, reo pākeha. Ko tāna reo māori tūturu ake.

    Me taku ako ki te tiki i ngā kupu tāwhito, te mea ko waku tītonga he ngāwari.

    Ko taku mea he tiki i ngā kupu tawhito.

    A nōreira ka whai au i tēra tairā.

     

    1991, 1992 ko mātou pea te tuatahi ki te tuu i runga i te papa o te Matatini, kāre kau he tarau.

     

    Ko ahau ko Ruben Collier, ko Te Rangihau Gilbert.

    The instructions. Although my teachers previously spoke Māori, the instruction was in English and Māori, they would switch between the two. However, Tīmoti only spoke Māori.

    I learnt how to select old words. My compositions prior were simple.

    I learned how to include old words in my compositions and pursued that style.

     

     

    In 1991 or 1992, we were the first to stand on the Te Matatini stage without underwear.

     

    There was Ruben Collier, Te Rangihau Gilbert and myself.

    Kō Opotiki mai Tawhiti tēnei?

    Was that Ōpōtiki-mai-tawhiti?

    Te Whare wānanga o Waikato.

     

     

     

    O nēra?

     

     

     

    No, Waikato University.

     

     

     

    Really?

     

     

     

    Ki runga o Turangawaewae, 1992 ki runga o te Awa.

    Kei kō ngā whakāhua i roto i te pukapuka o Tīmoti, haka, tāna pukapuka haka.

    Ko mātou kei roto, ia mātou e tai ana, kāre kau he tarau.

    It was at Tūrangawaewae, in 1992, on the river.

    The photographs are in Tīmoti’s book Haka.

    We were there, we were young and without underwear.

    Koirā te, taku kite i tēra ko te haere a mātou a Mataatua ki Waitangi 1990.

     

    Ka whakaeke te Motu.

    Ko te koroua a Mōwai Tihi, nō Ruatoki i te ārahi ia Mataatua me tāna maro.

    I haere ia ki te Pakanga, kārekau he tarau, whakaeke i runga o Waitangi te ārahi ia Mataatua, ko tāna ārahi a “Te Puru”.

     

    Ko te iwi o te Motu kei mua,ka tīmata te koroua tāna haka, kā eke kauru a Mataatua ki roto i tāna “ Te Pūru, e ko te”

     

    Kā wāhia TNZ, te ope ka whakaeke a Mataatua ki roto. Ko te koroua rā kāre he tarau, tāna Koti-ate paraoa

    Ko tāna reo he oritē ki tō Uncle Ben, Tiioro, whakamatakū tangata.

     

    Anā ko Uncle Monita te waha, te whakakapi i ngā whaikōrero katoā mo te Motu. Arā ko “Pinepine te kura” te waiata.

     

    Ko Mataatua.

    Nōreira tēra tauira o te koroua rā o Mōwai.

    Kua kite au, kua whakatauirā kē hia mai.

    E hara i te mea nāku noa i hei, takatakahi i te Mana o ngā Tīipuina.

    Kua kite, kua whakatauirā kē hia mai, i te Tapu o ngā Tapu.

    We went to Waitangi in 1990.

     

    The whole country ascended the marae.

    The old man, Mōwai Tihi from Ruātoki was leading Mātaatua, he was wearing a maro.

    He went to war; he didn’t have any underwear when he ascended Waitangi leading Mātaatua and led “Te Pūru”.

     

    People from across the country were in front when the old man started his haka, and Mātaatua went on the marae performing the haka, “Te Pūru, e ko te…”

     

    The group of people parted and Mātaatua ascended the marae. The old man wasn't wearing any underwear, he was holding a whale bone koteate. His voice was similar to Uncle Ben’s. He could yell and it was frightening.

    Uncle Monita was the spokesperson who concluded the formal speeches for the country. Pinepine Te Kura was the song.

     

    Mātaatua stood to support.

    So, that example stems from the old man, from Mōwai.

    I had seen it already; it had already exemplified.

    It’s not as if I alone decided to trample on the mana of the ancestors. 

    I had seen it being exemplified already and witnessed it in front of the most tapu people.

    I reira a Aunty Maka mā, kia mōhio mai koe me te koroua rā, te ārahi ia Mataatua.

    Tuhoe, Iwi ngahere te mea tūturu.

    Heoi anō, muri tēra ko Te Whare wānanga o Waikato. Ko te whakapōapoa mai i ahau kia uru i roto i tōna Kapa Haka.

     

    Taku pōhiri ki te Tohu Paitai ko te kōrero mai a Tīmoti, ka tū au te whaikorero ta mātou Whakaeke.

    Ka kī mai a Tīmoti haere mātou te rūru, kā mea mai “Kuhu mai ki roto i taku Kapa Haka”.

    Aunty Maka and them were all there you know and the old man, leading Mātaatua.

    The Tūhoe people of the bush, the staunch ones.

    After that, came Waikato University. I was enticed to join his haka team.

     

     

    I was invited to join Te Tohu Paetahi by Tīmoti. I stood to speak at the welcome ceremony.

    Tīmoti said, when we went to greet each other, “Join my haka team.”

     

     

    Kātahi ko te kī mai a Van, te tuakana a Boss, “ēhara”.

    Kei te mea a Timoti “Kei te haere rātou te Whare Wānanga ki Niumia i te mutungā o te tau.

    And then Van, te tuakana anoo a Boss goes “Doubt it”.

     

    Tīmoti said, “The University is traveling to Noumea at the end of the year.”

    Kō ahau i roto i te rōpu, 10 o mātou kei te haere.

     

    Kāre au e mōhio kia Timoti, kāre au e mōhio ki au, auā tēra pea mōhio ia ki au, aua kāre au i te mōhio.

     

    Anā i roto i tāna Kapa Haka.

    Ka meatia ia māku te rangi o te hari o tāna Haka.

     

    Te haka i tēra wā ko Te Raupatu whenua o Waikato.

     

    Nōreira kua, pirangi pea ia te tāera haka o kōnei.

     

    Kāre au mōhio engari me hari ahau ki tāna whare i tētahi pō, matakū katoā ahau. 

    Kā tono atu ia ko Joe Harawira hei haramai i taku taha i te mea matakū anō ki te haere ki tāna whare.

     

    Kāre au e mōhio ki te tangata rā, he pō kē katahi anō ka uru.

    Ka pirangi māku te taki o tōna Haka.

    I was in the group, there were ten of us that went.

     

    Tīmoti and I didnt know each other at the time. He may have known who I was, I’m not sure but I didn't know him.

     

    In his team, I was instructed by him to create the beat for his haka.

     

    The haka was about the land confiscations in Waikato.

     

    Maybe he was looking for the style of haka from here.

     

    I’m not sure but I had to take it to his house one night. I was terrified. 

    He asked Joe Harawira to come with me because I was too afraid to go to his house.

     

    I wasn't familiar with him; it was at night, and I’d only just joined the team and he wanted me to create the beat for his haka.

    (Haka)

    (Haka)

    Koirā te hari, te hari i mōhio ai.  

    Anā ka mutu tēra, koirā taku tū whakamutungā 1992 ki runga o Turangawaewae. Engari tautoko au ki ngā Koroneihana a Timoti. I te mea i kua tai kē au ki ngā Koroneihana ia Waioeka.

     

    Taku Koroneihana tuatahi, 24 pea mātou, 80 o Te Whare Wānanga o waikato. Ka wini ia mātou. 

    Ko te changing rooms i tēra wā i runga i te rori, i waho tonu ō Turangawaewae. Kei te kuhu mātou i o mātou Piupiu.

     

    Waioeka, kei te rongo mātou tamariki mātou, kei te rongo mātou tētahi Kapa Haka nui, Haruru ana.

    Ko mātou i muri ia rātou e tatari ana i te kēti, mōhio koe nē. Ka karanga koe, ka karanga ka whakawātea te Kapa Haka.

     

    Kā makere mai tētahi Kapa Haka, ko Joe, ko Te Rita Papesch.

    Kua mōhio au kia Te Rita Papesch ko Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato i te mea kua puta to rātou rongo.

     

    I ngā mōheni Tūtangata i ēra wā. Ka kite koe te Polynesian Festival. Ko Te Whare wānanga o Waikato kei te piki. Tuatoru ko Te Rita papesch kei te toa o te Manutaki. Engari ko rātou ka makere mai I te ātamira. 80 o rātou.

     

    Ko mātou ka whakaeke, ka wini ia mātou.

    (Ka waiata)

     

    Kōira tā mātou waiata a ringa “The other guy won’t be around”.

    1995 ka tū te whakataetae a Rohe o Mataatua ki kōnei, kāre kau he Kapa Haka matua.

     

    Ka karangatia e Johnny Kurei. Kua haurangi kē ahau i te kāinga me Ruana.

    That’s the beat, the beat I know. 

    After that, that was the last time I performed at Tūrangawaewae in 1992. But I continued supporting the Koroneihana with Tīmoti. Because I had been to Koroneihana in the past with Waioeka.

     

    My first Koroneihana, there must have been about 24 of us and 80 from Waikato University. We won.

    The changing rooms were on the road then, outside of Tūrangawaewae. We were putting on our piupiu.

     

     

    This was with Waioeka, we were only young. We could hear a big haka team giving it their all. 

    We were to perform after them. We were waiting at the gate. You know, aye? The haka team is called to enter.

     

    The haka team had just finished, it was Joe and Te Rita Papesch.

    I already knew who Te Rita Papesch was from Waikato University, they were well known.

     

    I’d seen them in the Tū Tangata magazines at the time. I’d seen them perform at the Polynesian Festival.

    Waikato University was on the rise. They’d come third and Te Rita Papesch had won the female leader.

    So, they had just exited the stage, all 80 of them.

     

    We went on the stage and ended up winning it.

    (Singing)

     

    That was our action song, “The other guy won’t be around”.

    In 1995, the Mātaatua regional competition was held here. There wasn't a main team at the time.

     

    Johnny Kurei called a meeting.  I had already had a few to drink at home with Ruana.

    Kua haurangi kē, kua tekau kāraka ka tae mai a Johnny ki te kāinga. Ka mea mai “Kua karangatia he Parakatihi ki Te Rere”. Kua haere ia ki te whakakao i ngā tāngata kua mea mai ia nāku i karanga te hui.

    Kāore nāna kē.

     

    Kā riri au, engari waimarie i roto i te pepa Titio waiata a Hirini Melbourne. Te Whare Wananga o Waikato, he waiata wāku.

     

    Ka oho au, ka haere atu kia Richard, whakaoho ia Richard Mitai. Ko tāku “Hey pureihia mai tēnei.”

    Tā mātou poi tēra mo te reo.

     

    Anā ka tū te hui, taku mōhio 27 January 1995, ana i reira pea te 50 tāngata, nui tonu. Me ngā koroua me ngā kuia, kua kao mai a Johnny.

     

     

    Ahakoa māua ko Dawn kua kōrero kē, I te tangihanga o te kuia rā o Te Wairēmana, i takotō ia ki Te Rere.

    I te mea ki te mahi pea te wharekai Tapairu i Opape, ka takoto ia ki Te Rere mo tāna Tangihanga. I reira kā kōrero māua.

     

    Kei te haere mai te mea, kei te kōrero māua. Pātaihia te kuia he ingoa.

    Nōreira te tīmatatanga o te whakāro. Engari nā Johnny i whakatīnana te mea.

    We were already drunk; it was ten o'clock when Johnny came over home.

    He said, “Hey, a practice has been called at Te Rere.” He was going around rounding everyone up and telling them that I had called the meeting.v He had instead.

     

    I was angry but it’s fortunate I completed Hīrini Melbournes composition paper at Waikato University. I had a few songs.

     

    I got up and went to visit Richard Mitai. I woke him up. “Hey, play this.”

    It was our poi about the language.

     

    The first muster was held, to my knowledge, on January the 27th 1995. There might have been about 50 of us there, quite a bit. Alongside the elderly men and women who had gathered together, thanks to Johnny.

     

    Although Dawn and I had already spoken about it at the funeral of Te Wairēmana’s grandmother who lay in state at Te Rere. I think they were renovating the dining hall Tapairu at Ōpape, so she lay in state at Te Rere. So, we spoke there.

     

    The time was coming, so we had begun speaking. Ask the elderly lady for a name for the group. 

    That’s where it all started. But it was Johnny who made it happen.

    Ana i tū a Opotiki mai Tawhiti. Wānangahia mātou he aha te ingoa ka pīrangi a Wharekawā, ko Te Whakatohea. I whakāro mātou “Kao me Opotiki mai Tawhiti te ingoa”

    Kia rite kia Waioeka Nui-a-Kiwa, kia kuhu mai ko te katoā.

    And Ōpōtiki-mai-tawhiti was born. We deliberated on the name, Te Wharekawa wanted it to be Te Whakatōhea. We thought further, “No, Ōpōtiki-mai-tawhiti should be the name.”

    Following the example of Waioeka-nui-a-Kiwa, it was all inclusive.

    Ko te Hāpori katoā nēra?

    It included the whole community. 

    Ae, kia kāua e mea.

     

    Hei matakū te tangata i te kuhu mai, tēra pea kei te matakū tonu rātou ki te kuhu mai. Kāre au e mōhio ana, hēoi ano. Koirā te mea, kāre e raka te kuaha ki te tangata ahakoa kōwai. Koirā te timatanga, ko taku waiako i tēra wā he rite taku ako, ki ngā ako i kite au.

     

    He hāparangi, e rīrīri, e kōhetehete. Kāre e whiu te rākau engari wēpua te rākau i runga i te papa i runga i taku hēmanawa pea. I te mea whakāro mātou ki te kuhu mātou kaua e kuhu hei whakakī noa i ngā tūranga, engari mē kuhu. I te mea kua pakeke mai i roto i te Delamere Cup kua moohio mātou ki te whakataetae. Kua whakatō kē.

    No one was excluded.

     

    So that no one was afraid to join, some might still be scared to join. I’m not sure.

    The door is never closed to anyone, regardless of who they are. That’s how it all started. My teaching style at the time mimicked the style of learning I had experienced.

     

    Yelling, getting angry and growling. I never used a weapon, but I did smack it on the ground in frustration. We were of the thought that if you joined, you didn’t just join to fill in the gaps, instead you joined with conviction. Because we had grown up with the Delamere Cup, we were familiar with competition. It was embedded in us.

    Tipu ake i roto i te whakataetae nē?

    You’d grown up competing, right?

    Ko te wikitōria, te wikitōria i runga i te aroha. Whakapau Kaha.

     

    Nōreira tito au ngā waiata, ko Mokomoko te Haka. I te mea i haere au ki te hāhu ia Mokomoko.

    Ko te Parden mo Mokomoko “Kei hea te whenua?”.

     

    Koira te wero ki te Kāwanatangaa.

    Ko te fiscal envelope tēra, te piriona tāra i mea tia ai hei whakāea i ngā raru a te Tiriti, koirā te kaupapa.

    I tiki mai a ngā kupu a Timoti (Ka haka)

     

    I roto i tā mātou haka mō te Raupatu, tīkina mai kō

    It was about winning, winning with love and giving it your everything.

     

    I composed the songs. Mokomoko was the haka. I was one who went to exhume Mokomoko. The pardon for Mokomoko was asking where is the land?

     

    That was the challenge to the government.

    It was about the Fiscal Envelope, which included a million dollars to cover all Treaty grievances. That was the theme. I used Tīmoti’s words (Performing the haka)

     

    They were included in our haka about the land confiscations

    Me taku rangahau i ngā waiata (Ka haka)

    I had also researched the song (Demonstrates haka)

    Kua whai i tāna tauira, rangahau i ngā, pēra ia tāua, i ngā Mōteatea ka kite i ngā, kiā hāngai ki tō kaupapa.

     

     

    Kua whai au i te tauira a.

    Nōreira i roto i te Matatini, kua whakataetae māua ko Tīmoti.

    Ka mea, i tae mai ia i te whakataetae i te tuatahitanga o Ōpotiki mai Tawhiti i te Kāreti. 

     

    I runga i ngā Kiwi Fruit Boxes.

    I followed his example, just as we do, research the ancient chants and pull things from there that relate to your subject.

     

    I followed that example. 

    When it came to Te Matatini, Tīmoti and I were competing against each other.

    He came here to the first competition at Ōpōtiki College.

     

    We performed on kiwi fruit boxes.

    Hei atāmira?

     

    It was the stage?

    Hei atāmira.

     

    I mua i tēra ki muri I te taraka ngā atāmira.

    Engari, ka makere mātou ka mea mai “O atāhua, Opotiki mai Tawhiti”. Tuarua mātou, ka whai wāhi mātou. 

    Matakū au te noho ki te Prize Giving i tēra rā, ka hoki au ki Te Rere kā noho.

     

     

    Ka hoki mai a OMT on the bus, we had to push our bus. Kei raro rā ngā tāne ē peipei ana i te Pahi, me te mōhio ka tūreiti koe ka tomohia mai e māua.

     

    Kei reira māua e pana ana i te Pahi kāre e tāti.

    Pōkōkohua pahi.

     

    Tahi ka tīmata te pahi kā rere, kāre i huaki ngā kuaha kei waho rā ngā tāne e mea ana i ngā kuaha.

    Engari ka whakaeke, kei te hoki mai a Opotiki mai Tawhiti.

     

    Ka makere mai rātou, i te marae ahau me Wēteni Te Rere e tatari ana.

    Me tū i Randsfield, he matakū nōku ki te.

     

    Kātahi anō rātou kua whakataetae kua uru a Mātārae Ōrehu.

     

    Ana kua tae mai a Wēteni ki te tautoko i āna uri.

    Ana ka hoki au ki te marae, matakū.

    Kā tīni ngā kākahu o OMT ka hoki rātou ki te College.

     

    Kāre au i hoki, matakū kāre i whakapono.

    That was the stage.

     

    Prior to that, the stage was the back of the truck, was the stage.

    When we exited the stage, we were told, “Stunning, Ōpōtiki-mai-tawhiti.” We came second and made it into Te Matatini. I was too afraid to attend the prize giving at the time, so went back to Te Rere and stayed there.

     

    Ōpōtiki-mai-tawhiti returned on the bus, we had to push our bus. The men were outside pushing the bus. We knew if we were late, marks would be taken off.

     

    We were there pushing our bus that wouldn't start.

    Bloody bus.

     

    As soon as the bus started, we were off. But then the doors wouldn't open, the men were outside banging on the doors. We made it and returned home again.

     

    They exited the stage, and I was at the Te Rere Marae with Wētini and Tui Ransfeild because I was scared.

     

    They had just completed, Te Mātārae-i-Ōrehu, and made it through to Te Matatini.

     

    So, Wētini had come to support his relatives.

    I returned to the marae freightend.

    Ōpōtiki-mai-tawhiti changed clothes and returned to the college.

     

    I didn’t go back because I was too scared.

    Kia ora. Nōreira koirā te tīmatanga mai ō Ōpotiki mai Tawhiti?

    Wow. And that was the beginning of Ōpōtiki-mai-tawhiti?

    Ka tuarua mātou, kā tae.

    We placed second and made it through to Te Matatini.

    Ka tae. Ka tae ki te whakataetae, ki te Matatini.

    We went to compete at Te Matatini in 1996, in Te Arawa.

    Ki te Matatini, 1996 Te Arawa.

    Te Matatini, 1996, in Te Arawa.

    Kia ora.

    Wow.

    Ana ka tuarua mātou i te reo.

    We placed second in the language.

    Mai tāua wā tae noa mai ki tēnei wā.

    Ia te tau kā uru nēra?

    And from that time up until today, every day you’ve placed?

    Ka uru. Engari tēra tau1996 i tuarua mātou i te reo. Ko Timoti i tuatahi, ko au i tuarua. Te tau i muri atu 1998 ko Rikirangi i tuatahi, ko ahau i tuarua.

    We’ve placed every time. In 1996, we placed second in the language. Tīmoti won and I came second. The year after that, in 1998, Rikirangi won and I came second.

    Kia ora. Heoi ano Uncle Uncle koinā te paungā o te wā kia tāua. Engari mīharo katoā, mīharo katoā.

    Thank you. Anyway Uncle, our time has run out. This has been amazing.

    Ka pai, ka pai tērā.

    That’s fine.

    Me taku waimaria ānei ki ahau e whakarongo atu ana ki ngā kōrero.

    Heoi anō, nōreira e mihi ana.

    I’m fortunate to listen to all of these stories. 

    Thank you.

    Aroha mai engari he nui noa ngā mahara. 

    Kei konei te hātekēhi e haramai nei.

    Forgive me, there are so many memories to tell.

    There are funnier stories to tell.

    Tēna koutou.

    Thank you all.

    Tēna koe.

    Thank you.

     

    As the interview finishes fades to black screen Te Kahautu stands and performs a waiata with appropriate actions. 

    Camera brings up again the scenic shots of toetoe then a shot of a carved pou. The skate park appears and quickly dies out to a monument from Opotiki center shot. 50km speed sign which also has Opotiki on it. Crosses to a panning shot of a mural from the town center. It returns to the beach then to the river with barge, which has two boy who look to be skimming rocks. Then back to the beach and the river mouth with a walking bridge out the river, then to the walking bridge with bike riders coming across. Back to a shot overlooking the ocean and carved pou then quickly back to a different area of the river. A shot of the carved pou in Opotiki. Shots of street art and to the skate park once again with carved pou. Then closing on the carved pou which switches over to a bird’s eye view of the district.

    [ Accordion ]

    Opening images of the beach and ocean with waves breaking, changing to a panned out shot of Te Ao Haka written in the sand. Birds eye view panning over greenery land with the ocean in the distance before changing to a close up of the beach and ocean with large coastal hills in the distance. A still image of footprints in the sand to a clip of bird’s eye view of a awa with green farm lands on either side. Close up of flowing water in the river. Close up shot of a street sign with “Timoti RD” displayed. A Clip of some sand dunes with ocean in the distance. Two close up images with one showing a Cross made with sticks to a heart shaped out in the sand with stones as its lines. Another bird’s eye view of farmlands and a town with a beautiful sunset in the distance. Birds eye view panning the town with streetlights and moving car lights as it fades from dusk to dark. Multiple close-up images of a carvings displayed one after another. The words Ngāti appear on the screen with a faded image of carvings in a park followed by a taiaha panning in from the left with the words “Te Ao Haka” appearing. Camera then closes into studio where Taupiri sits alongside interviewer Tiahuia Ropitini.

    Te Reo Māori

    Reo Pākehā

    Nau mai rā, kei te nanakia, kei te manuhiri o te rā, kei tā tātou teina, tēnā koe kua whakawātea mai i a koe, kia hora mai ngā kōrero e pā ana ki tō haerenga ki roto ki tēnei ao haka ōu. 

     

    Hei timatanga mā tāua ka tuku atu te rākau ki a koe. Whakamōhio atu ki a tātou tamariki, ki ngā kaiwhakarongo, ko wai koe, nō hea koe. Kei a koe te wā

    Welcome to the mischievous, the guest of the day, our junior, thank you for making yourself available to share your journey regarding your Ao Haka.

     

     

    To begin with, I’ll give it over to you. Let our children and listeners know who you are, and where you’re from. The floor is yours.

    He nanakia ka tika, e Ti. Tuatahi i mua i tōku pahupahu mōku ake, mokori anō, ka mihia koutou ngā kaiwhakatairanga i tō tātou ao haka. 

     

    Koutou ngā haputa o tēnei mea te whakatairanga i tō tātou ao haka, nā reira, mokori anō, ka mihia koutou.

     

    A, ko wai tēnei nanakia e tū ake nei, e noho ake nei rānei, ko Taupiri Petera tēnei, he uri tēnei nō konei nō Kahungunu. He raukura tēnei anō hoki, nō Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga.

     

    Kei pau i a au ngā miniti ki te pahupahu mōku ake, ā, ka ū tonu tātou ki te kaupapa.

    A mischief is certainly true, Ti. Firstly, before I talk about myself, I must first acknowledge you all, the promoters of our haka world.

     

    You are the beacons advocating for our haka world,therefore, I must acknowledge you.

     

     

    Who is this mischief standing here, rather, sitting here? I am Taupiri Petera, I am a descendent of Kahungunu. I am also a graduate of Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga.

     

     

    I’m taking up all the time speaking about myself, so we’ll focus on the subject.

    Ko koe te kaupapa, ko koe te kaupapa, me pahupahu. Tēnā kōrero mai tō ao haka, i timata tō ao haka ki hea? Ki raro i ngā parirau o wai? Ko wai te hunga i poipoi, i penapena i a koe ki roto i tō ao haka, nā reira me hoki whakamuri ngā whakaaro tō tupuranga ki roto i tō ao haka.

    You are the subject, you are the subject, you must rave on. Well, talk to us about your haka world. Where did your kapa haka journey begin? Whose tutelage were you under? Who were those who nurtured and educated you through your haka journey? So cast your thoughts back to when you were growing up within your haka journey.

    Ko te pātai ia ki hea timata ai nē. Ka hoki ōku mahara ki te tau rua mano mā waru pea. Ki reira timata ai tōku ao haka, nōku e āhua whitu, whitu tau, waru tau pea.

     

    I tū te kura tahi o tō māua kura, o tō tātou kura anō hoki ki tētahi momo ahurei. He momo tūnga noa iho ki mua i te mura o te ahi.

     

    Ki reira hoki tipu ai te hiahia mō tēnei mea te kapa haka. Nā reira, i tēnā wā ko whaea Bubby ko rātou mā e penapena i a mātou ngā pīpī.

     

    Nā wai, nā wai a, kua tipu rawa te hiahia mō tēnei mea te ao haka, e tipu tonu ana te hiahia, te hōkaka mō tēnei mea te ao haka anō hoki. Nā reira mokori anō ka mihia rātou ngā kaiwhakatō, ā, ngā kaiwhakawai anō hoki i te kakano.

    Let’s begin with where it started, yes. I cast my thoughts back to the year 2008. That’s when my haka journey started when I was around seven or eight years old.

     

    The primary school side of our school performed at a festival. It was just a performance in front of everyone.

     

     

    That’s where my desire for kapa haka flourished. At that time, it was whaea Bubby and co who nurtured us, the little ones.

     

    Eventually, my desire for kapa haka bloomed, and it’s still growing – the desire for the haka world as well. So acknowledgements must be made to those who planted and watered that seed.

    Ka hoki ki ō rā i a koe e tamariki tonu ana ki raro i ngā whakaakoranga a whaea Bubby mā, he aha ngā waiata i ērā wā i ako ai e koutou?

    Going back to the days when you were still a child under the tutelage of whaea Bubby and co, what songs did you learn back then?

    Ko ērā waiata ka kaha rangona e te tangata ka puta ana ia ki kaupapa kē atu pēnei i a Tūtira mai, Ngā Pepeha, kāre i ārikarika ngā waiata i whakaakona e ia.

     

    Ehara i te mea he tū me te whakataetae engari he momo whakarauora noa iho i te ao haka.

    They were the songs that people hear when they go to events, like Tūtira mai, Ngā Pepeha, she taught so many songs.

     

    Yeah, we didn’t stand for competition. It was more so to participate in the haka world.

    I ngā me kī, ka rongo au ki ngā ingoa o ērā waiata, koirā ngā waiata o te iwi nei o Kahungunu. Kei te maumahara koe he aha ngā kōrero e pā ana ki ērā waiata?

    In, let’s say, I hear the names of those songs, and they are of this tribe, of Kahungunu. Do you remember what the explanations for those songs were?

    Oh āe

    Oh yes.

    Tūtira mai, e mōhiotia whānuitia e tātou ki te kaupapa o roto o tēnā waiata, anā ko te tūtira i ngā iwi, mai tēnā iwi, tēnā iwi puta noa i te ao, ā kia tūtira, kia tapatahi, kia kotahi anō hoki.

     

    Me te whakaaro anō, ko ēnā waiata ka rangona tonu i ēnei o ngā rā, ko tēnā iwi, ko tēnā iwi.

    Tūtira mai, the meaning of that song is widely known, that is the banding together of all tribes throughout the world, to stand as one, be virtuous and stay united.

     

    Just another thought, these waiata are still sung today by many iwi.

    Āe tika tonu, u e, koia. Oh pai. I a koe e tamariki ana ko whaea Bubby, koirā ō maharatanga tuatahi o tō ao haka? Nā rātou te kākano i whakatō nā reira, koirā ō rā i te kura tahi anā ka tipu ana koe, ki hea mai i te kura tahi i haere pēhea nei tō ao haka?

    Yes, that is right indeed! Great. When you were young with whaea Bubby, are those your first memories regarding your haka journey? They were the people who planted the seed? So that was when you were at primary school. After primary, where did you go from there? Which direction did your haka journey take?

    Nā reira, nā te hōkaka o roto i au, kāti ake i a mātou, i te kimikimi noa me pēhea rawa e pakari ai te tū, e kounga ai te tū kia tū whakahīhī i runga anō i te whakaiti ki mua i te mura o te ahi.

     

    Nā reira, i peka atu mātou ki te wharekura [ooh na na] i mua i te taenga atu ki te wharekura, ki te mana kuratahi, i tū mātou, tō mātou kapa ki te taha o Whare Tāpere i taua wā ki Palmerston North.

     

    Ki reira whakatū ai te kaupapa, ki reira hoki te tūnga tuatahitanga ōku, mō te mana kuratahi. Nā reira, he wheako hou tēnā, he āhuatanga hou anō hoki nā runga i te whakaaro he whakataetae kua para.

     

    So kua huri, mai te whakangahau ki te āhuatanga o te whakataetae, anā ka kitea he taumata rerekē, he taumata anō e haere ana.

    So, because I had a desire within me, well, within all of us, we were trying to figure out how to improve our performance quality, how to be proud but remain humble while in the heat of performance.

     

    So, we went to the wharekura, but before we were actually at wharekura, we stood at Te Mana Kuratahi with our kapa who joined with Whare Tapere at the time, in Palmerston North.

     

     

    That’s where the event was held. That was also the first time I had stood at Te Mana Kuratahi. So, that was a new experience for me, it was new in the sense that it was a competition.

     

     

    So, my journey changed from one of non-competition to competition. That’s when I saw the standard was different, there was a higher standard.

    I pēhea tērā ki a koe? kāre e kore i eke koe, engari he aha ngā momo wheako e ako koe ki roto i tērā haerenga ōu?

    How was that for you? No doubt, you excelled, however, what experiences did you encounter within that journey?

    Ko te mea nui i ākona e au, i whakaakona e ngā pou o roto i tēnā kapa haka rānei, ko tēnei mea te tū tika nē. 

     

    Te tū tika, e pēhea rawa koe e kawe i a koe anō. Ka mutu, kia rongo i te wairua o te whakataetae, kia rongo i te ihiihi, te wehiwehi anō hoki.

     

    Ngā wheako katoa ēnā ki au i tērā wā anō hoki. Nā reira i, i āhua noho pēnei i te tamaiti, ooo pai, pai rawa atu ēnei… āe

    The main thing I learnt were the focus areas of that particular haka group. For example, how to stand. 

     

     

    How to stand, how to carry yourself. Furthermore, the atmosphere of competition and the sensations of exhilaration and awe.

     

    That’s what I experienced at that time. So, like a child, I sat thinking, “Ooh, this is amazing.” Yeah.

    Āe, āe ka tino rongo i te wairua. He wairua anō nē, me te mea hoki, me eke koe ki tētahi taumata anō so kei te rongo au i tērā momo mauri mai i a koe.

     

    Ko wai o kaiwhakaako, ko wai ngā kaiako haka ōu, i ērā wā?

    Yes, yes, you really do feel the spiritual aspect. It’s a different sensation, isn’t it? It’s like you go to another state of being. I’m feeling that kind of notion from you.

     

    Who were your tutors, your kapa haka tutors, at that time?

    I tēnā wā ko Mahinarangi Huata, ko Matua Warena, a ko wai atu? E aua, kua wareware i au ngā ingoa, engari koutou e mōhio ana, e mōhio katoa ana koutou ko wai koutou. Koirā ngā kaiwhakawai i tēnā wā e whakawai ana te kākano kia puāwai.

    At that time, they were Mahinārangi Huata, matua Warena – who else? I’m not sure, I’ve forgotten the names. However, you would know, you know who you all are. Those were the people who watered the seed to bloom.

    Mō te taha whakawhanaungatanga i te mea e rua ngā kura nē, e rua ngā kura i piri, i pēhea tērā āhuatanga. Kei te noho tahi tō mātou kura me tētahi kura kaupapa Māori anō, i pēhea te wairua whakawhanaungatanga?

    In terms of getting to know people, because there were two schools who joined together, how was that situation? There was our school and another Kura Kaupapa Māori who joined together. How was the atmosphere in terms of making friends?

    I pai rawa atu. E mīharo ana ki tēnā āhuatanga o te whakawhanaunga. Ki au nei koinā te painga o tēnei mea te mahi kapa haka nē. He whakawhanaunga, a koe ki tēnā kapa, ki tēnā kapa, e rongo ai te āhuatanga Māori me te tangata Māori anō hoki. Kāti ake, he mea rangona, kaha rawa atu ki te ao kapa haka nei.

    It was awesome. I was amazed at that aspect of whakawhanaungatanga. To me, that is one of the pros of kapa haka – to nurture good relations between yourself and your respective kapa. To be surrounded by all things Māori, as well as Māori people. It’s something you feel strongly in the kapa haka world. 

    He mahi Māori nē?

    It’s Māori isn’t it?

    Āe āe ka tika

    Yes, correct.

    Koirā te mahi o te Māori, ahakoa nō hea ahakoa ko wai, mēnā ka piri koe ki tētahi kaupapa kua whānau tātou.

    That’s what Māori do – no matter where you’re from or who you are, if you join a cause, you are considered family.

    Ana tika, tika tāu

    You’re totally correct.

    Ka pai, koirā tō ao haka i a koe e kura takawaenga ana

    So, that was your kapa haka world during middle school.

    Āe, tōna tekau mā rua, tekau mā tahi.

    Yes, I was around 12-11.

    Me te mea hoki ko whaea Bubby, kei te mōhio au ki a whaea Bubby rāua ko whaea Mahina, he whanaunga tata, ka mutu, he hoa tino piri tata rāua, 

    And also, whaea Bubby – I know whaea Bubby and whaea Māhina, they are close relations and close friends.

    Āe āe tika tāu, tika tāu

    Yes, you’re correct.

    nā reira, kāore e kore i reira ngā whakaakoranga ōrite.

    So, no doubt, there were similarities in teachings.

    I kitea ngā hononga, ngā aha, ngā wheako e āhua rite ana, nā reira, ehara i te mea he hou, he hou rawa atu, engari ko te wairua kē pea tēnā i hou ko ngā whakaakoranga tēnā a kua waia, kua waia ināianei.

    We saw the similarities, the similar experiences, so, nothing wasn’t necessarily new, but it was the atmosphere perhaps that was different. But we had already become accustomed to the teachings.

    Kia ora, he wheako whakaaweawe ki roto? He mea ki roto i ērā whakaakoranga i a koe e tipu ana, he aha ngā mea i whakaawe i a koe? 

    Thank you. Was there anything inspirational that came from that? Was there anything in the teachings you learnt while you were growing up? What inspired you?

    Tuatahi, ki au nei i mea atu au ko te tū tikatanga anā, me pēhea koe e tipu, e whakapakeke ā-whakaaro anō hoki nē, he momo rautaki e puāwai koe, e pakeke haere koe, kia kore ai koe e noho hei hianga ahakoa i mahue i a au tēnā ākoranga.

    Firstly, for me, like I mentioned before, it was the correct way to stand, how to develop, how to mature your thoughts as well. It’s like a strategy that helps you grow and mature, so you don’t stay immature – however I missed out on that lesson.

    I ētahi wā, āe ko koe tēnā

    Sometimes, yes, that’s you.

    Engari āe, ki a au nei, ko te puāwaitanga o te tangata 

    However, yes. To me, it’s the development of a person.

    Kia ora, tōna whanaketanga

    Yes, your growth as a person. 

    E kaha kawe nei i tēnā momo kaupapa.

    Which is strongly conveyed within that space.

    Kia ora. Pai. Kura tahi, kura takawaenga, wharekura, kōrero mai mō tō ao haka, i ō rā i te wharekura. Ko wai te hunga i whakaawe i a koe, ko wai te hunga i wepu i a koe, ko wai te hunga i wero i a koe i ērā wā.

     

    Kei te mōhio au ki tō ao haka ki roto o te wharekura, nā reira, tohaina ērā kōrero ki te hunga ka whai i tēnei ara. 

     

    He hunga ka tae mai ki te wharekura, ka whai i te ara o te kaitātaki, ka whai i te ara o te tuakana o te teina rānei. 

     

    Kua kite au i ōu pūkenga ki roto i tērā haerenga ōu, nā reira kōrerohia mai, mai i tō tirohanga

     

    He aha ōu whēako I te wharekura ki roto I ngā mahi haka. Ko wai ngā tāngata i whakaawe i a koe, ko wai ngā tāngata i wero i a koe, me ērā anō hoki i whakapono ki a koe… Āe, kōrero mai.

     

    Thank you. Great, Primary school, middle school, wharekura. Tell me about your haka journey while you were at wharekura. Who were those that inspired you, who were those that whipped you into shape, who were those that challenged you at that time?

     

    I know your kapa haka journey throughout wharekura, so share that with those who are following this path now.

     

    Those who will reach wharekura to pursue the path to being a leader, or to pursue the path to being a senior or junior member.

     

    I’ve seen your skills within your journey, so let’s hear your perspective.

     

     

    Let’s go from your view, what was your experience like in wharekura ki roto i ngā mahi haka

    Who were the people that inspired you, who were the people that challenged you and who were the people that believed in you and yea, talk me through that.

    Āe, tēnei mea te kura tuarua nē. Tuatahi, kia mōhio mai, te katoa o tātou, he taumata kē atu te kura tuarua i te mana kuratahi.

     

    Ki reira wepu ai au, ki reira whakatika ai au, ki reira mataku ai au, engari, kia ruku atu ki te hōhonutanga o ngā kōrero, i timata ake au i te tau rua mano tekau mā ono.

     

    Ki taku whakapae, ko te rua tekau mā ono, a rua mano tekau mā ono ki konei ki Te Hāro o Te Kāhu ngā whakataetae kura tuarua, koinā te tūnga tuatahitanga ōku.  Kāti ake ko tēnā campaign.

     

    He aha te kupu Māori mō te campaign?

     

    Yes, this secondary school thing, eh. Firstly, let it be known to all of us, secondary school is on another level compared to primary school.

     

    That’s where I was scolded, straightened up, that’s where I got scared. But to dive deep into my story, I started in 2016.

     

    I think in the year 2016, the secondary school competition was held here, Te Hāro o Te Kāhu. That was my first stand. And that campaign.

     

     

    What is the Māori word for campaign?

    Tērā, mm. Tērā tū, 

    That, ‘tū’,

    I tērā tū i kaha ngaua koutou e au…oh i kaha ngaua au e koutou nā runga i te whakaaro, he hianga tēnei e haere mai nei, me ōna āhuatanga hianga. Engari i te taenga atu i ēnā kūaha i tere, i tere huri ēnā whakaaro ōku, nā runga i te auau o te kurī, i runga i te ngau o te kurī anō hoki.

     

    Engari, i rangona e au, kāti ake, i whāngaia e koutou, tēnei mea te whakaiti nē, ka mutu, tēnei mea te rangatiratanga a, kia matomato ai te tipu, a kāti ake, kia kore ai e tū hei kaiwhakapehapeha, hei kaiwhakarekareka i au anō,

     

    engari, koinā ngā āhuatanga i whāngaia e koutou.  Mō te taha tū i uaua katoa tēnā tūnga nē, a ko āmaimai i rongo, ko wiriwiri i rongo, ko tokokawa i heke, ko tangi i heke,

     

    me te whakaaro anō, katoa ērā āhuatanga, ka ahu mai i te kapa haka nē, i te noho tahi. Engari i te mutunga iho, i mīharo rawa te tū ki au nei ahakoa kāore anō i eke ki taua whiringa whāiti, ki taua taumata e hiahia ana,

     

    ki au nei, ki reira rangona kaha ai te hōkaka, ki reira tipu mārika ai te hiakai mō tēnei mea te tū anō, nā reira ko au tēnā i hoki mai, i hoki mai me ēnei nanakia, me ēnei hiangatanga, engari, koinā te timatanga o tōku haerenga ki te kura tuarua.

    That campaign, I was afraid of you all because I mistakenly thought that you would all think, ‘here comes this mischief with his mischief ways.’ However, when I got to the doors, my thoughts changed quickly due to the barking of the dogs, the bite of the dogs as well.   

     

     

    However, what I felt was – well, what was taught by you all was this thing called humility. Furthermore, being proud of oneself and how one can flourish, but importantly, how one should not boast or talk up oneself.

     

     

    Alas, those are the characteristics you taught us. In regard to the performance, that was a really difficult stand, eh. Nerves and trembles were felt. Sweat and tears were shed.

     

    And just to think, all those things come out of doing kapa haka, being together. But at the end of the day, I think it was an amazing experience, although we didn’t make it to the finals, the place we wanted to be.

     

     

    For me, that’s where I felt a burning desire, the hunger grew to perform again. So that was me, I came back, I came back with these mischiefs and their mischief ways. But that was the beginning of my secondary school [kapa haka] journey.

    Kōrero tonu, kōrero tonu.

    Continue, continue.

    Ka piki ake ki tau kē atu? kia kore au e pau ngā miniti ki te pahupahu mō ia te tau, ka tōtika atu ki te tau i pai rawa atu ki au. He aha rā tērā tau, ko te tau rua mano ngahuru mā waru te tau

    Shall I move on to another year? I won’t waste time speaking about every year, so I’ll go straight to my favourite year. What was that year? It was 2018. The year…

    Rangitāne

    Rangitāne

    Āe āe koinā kē pea te.. 

    Yeah, perhaps that was…

    Te tino tau?

    The best year?

    te tino tau. Kāhore he…

    The best year. There isn’t a…

    He aha ai?

    Why?

    Tuatahi ko nga hoa i tū. Ka mutu, ko te aroha i rongo, ko te uaua i rongo, engari, ko te kounga i rongo anō hoki, me te whakaaro anō, kāhore he tāngata i tua atu i a rātou ki au, ki te whakapau werawera, ki te whakapau kaha i ngā parakatihi i parakatihitia e tātou,

    Firstly, my friends all stood. Furthermore, you felt the love, you also felt the difficulties, but you also felt the quality. In addition, to me, there was no one beyond that group who worked harder at our practices.

    Āe i tino wepua koutou i tēnā tau.

    Yes, you really got hammered that year.

    Ko te mea nui ki au ko te aroha i rongo i tēnā wā. Kua hono rawa, kua pēnei, kua pokohiwi ki te pokohiwi, tuarā ki te tuarā, kua whītiki tauā, ki au nei ko te aroha i rongo i tēnā tau, kāhore he tau i tua atu i tēnā ki au nei.

    The main thing for me was the love that was felt at that time. We got really close, we were shoulder to shoulder, back-to-back, we banded together. To me, it was love that was felt during that year. To me, there wasn’t a better year. 

    E tautoko ana tērā kōrero i tāu i kōrerotia i te timatanga rā, e hoki ana rā ki te whanaungatanga, i kaha rongo, āe kei te maumahara au ki ērā wā i tino kaha. I tērā tau tonu, he aha he tūranga whakahirahira ōu i tērā tau?

    I support what you said in the beginning. Going back to building kinship – you really felt that and I remember it was very strong back then. 

    In that year, what was one of the important positions you held? 

    Pēhea nei he aha te tūranga e kīa nei?

    What kind of position?

    He aha tō tūranga ki roto i tērā, nā reira i noho mai koe hei, hei tuakana whakaaweawe i te teina?

    What role did you hold? So, did you hold a senior member role who inspired the juniors? 

    Āe āe, nā reira i tēnā tau hoki i tū au hei tuakana, kaua mō te kapa haka anake, mō te kura katoa, nā reira, ki reira tino whanake ai i te āhuatanga o te tū tika o te tuakanatanga ki roto i au, ko au tēnā e hauhau ana ngā waewae o ōku teina, kia tika ai tātou, engari

    Yes, yes, so in that year, I was a senior member, not just in kapa haka, but for the whole school. So there was major development in how I carried myself regarding being a senior. I would be the one to correct my juniors so they’d be proper, but…

    He aha ngā wero ki roto i tērā mahi?

    What were the challenges in that role?

    Kāore e kore ko ngā wero i rongo i ōku tuakana nōku e tipu ana nē, tēnei mea te hianga, tēnei mea te kōrerorero, engari, ko ēnā momo āhuatanga i kaha rangona e au, me tōku kaha ki te whakatika i a rātou.

     

    Nā reira āe, e manawanui ana au ki ōku tuākana i tēnā momo āhuatanga, engari, kua rangona e au ki tēnā momo āhuatanga anō hoki, nā reira, āe.

    No doubt they were same challenges that my seniors felt when I was growing up, eh. Mischievousness, always talking. That’s the sort of thing I regularly experienced, so I’d always correct them.

     

     

    So yes, I have immense respect for my seniors when it comes to those things. And now I’ve also experienced those things, so yeah.

    Mā te hē, ka tika, koirā ngā kōrero ka puta nē, i ngā te whare o Rongokako “mā te hē ka tika, ki te hē te kotahi, kua hē te katoa” koirā ngā kōrero.

    By doing wrong, you will know what’s right. That’s the kind of narrative that’s pushed, right, in Te Whare o Rongokako, “If one does wrong, we have all done wrong.” That’s the statement.

    Āe, āe ēnā āhuatanga katoa kua rangona, āe engari, ki reira hoki te nuinga o ngā iho pūmanawa rātou mā e kaha tū pakari ai hei mata mōku, hei akoranga mōku anō hoki, pēnei i a Para, koinā te, tōna tau tuatahi i uru mai ia hei kaiwhakaako, hei kaiwhakawepu rānei.

     

    Ākene pea e tika tēnā ingoa hei tapainatanga mōna, engari āe, koia hoki tāku e tino manawanui ana ki tēnā tau.

     

    Nā runga i te nui o ngā iho pūmanawa. Kāti ake ko BJ tēnā i tū hei kaitātaki and koinā tōna tau tuarua, tuarua ia e noho ana ki waenganui i tō māua kura ka tiaki i tō tātou kura.

     

    Ko ia hoki tēnā i tū hei tino iho pūmanawa mōku, ko tōna tauira i whakatau i tēnā tau, e ārahi tonu ana ahau i ēnei o ngā rā.

     

    Nā reira, e mihi ana ki a ia me tōna pakari, tāna i aha…i ōkea ururoatia, i ruku i te ruku o Matauaua. Ko tēnā tauira, e whai tonu ana i au i ēnei o ngā rā anō hoki.

    Yes, yes, we heard all those things, yes. However, that’s also where most of my idols were, those who were at another level of performance who I could mirror, who I could also learn from. Like Para for example. That was the first year he came onboard as a tutor, or rather as a disciplinarian.

     

    Perhaps that title is better suited to him. However, yes, that’s also what I am grateful for regarding that year.

     

     

    How there were so many of my idols around. And so, it was BJ who stood as male leader, that was his, what, second year in that role? Secondly, he would stand in the middle of the school to look after our school.

     

    He was also one of my idols. The example he set that year still inspires me to this day.

     

     

    So, I acknowledge him and his stability. His ability to go forth and dive head-first into the difficulties placed in front of him. That’s the example I continue to follow today.

    Kia ora, e kōrero ana koe mō tēnei mea te tū tika, ki a koe, he aha te tāera tū o Kahungunu, he aha te momo tāera kua akongia e koe, i a koe e tipu ana, he aha ngā momo tāera, te wiri, te takahi?

    Thank you. You talk about something around ‘appropriate performance’. To you, what is the style of Kahungunu? What was the style that you learnt, when you were growing up, what were the styles, for example, wiri and takahi?

    E mōhiotia ko Matua Tūhoe tēnā e kaha whāngaihia ana ēnā momo mātauranga ki a mātou nē, kia mau hoki ki ēnā kōrero, taku wahine pūrotu, taku tāne pūrotu. Nā reira, me tika tō kawe i a koe anō, kia rerehua, kia pai, engari, kia whakatinana i te āhuatanga o Kahungunu whānui.

     

     

    It is known that it is Matua Tūhoe that constantly taught those skills to us. Holding on to the narrative, ‘my beautiful lady, my handsome man’. So, you must carry yourself appropriately. To be beautiful, to be pleasant, however, one must also embody all the traits belonging to Kahungunu, Kahungunu in its entirety.

    Nā reira, he [clean] pea te tuku i a koe anō nē. Kāti ake, ko te mea e kaha maumaharatia ana, e maumahara ana ahau, ko te tū i te taha haka nē.

    So, maybe it’s to be clean in presentation. And well, the thing that always comes to my mind is the haka stance.

    E kōrero ana koe mō tēnei mea te tū tika, me kōrero tāua, oh me kōrero koe, he aha te tū, he aha te momo tāera o Kahungunu, o te kura rānei, āe

    You’re talking about this ‘appropriate performance’ thing. So let’s talk about, well you talk about, what is the performance, what is the style of Kahungunu or of the school? Yeah.

    Nā reira ko tāku i rongo, ko tā Matua Tūhoe i whāngai ki a mātou o te kura, kia mau ki te kōrero “taku wahine pūrotu, taku tāne pūrotu”.

     

    Nā reira, me tika te kawe i a koe anō, me rerehua, me whakaniko anō i a koe anō, kia tū pakari anō hoki.

     

    Nā reira, me [clean] rawa atu te āhua. Me tēnei mea hoki, arā ko te tū ki te taha haka, ko tā Kahungunu he mau ki te whare, te hanga whare o te tū.

     

    Nā reira, ko ētahi o ngā tūnga ka kitea i te haka, ko te ue tika, ko te uehā, me te uenuku anō hoki.

     

    Koinā ngā momo taumata o te tū, anā ko te ue tika ka tōtika te tū, ko te uehā, ka paku hiki (heke), ka paku, poto ake i a koe anō, ka mutu, ko te uenuku, ka kaha kitea, ko te uenuku tēnā, āe

     

    Ka hanga whare rawa atu, ka tāpapa koe ki te papa. Koinā te āhuatanga i whāngaihia e Matua Tūhoe ki a mātou ki ōna tama i te rōpū. Nā reira, e mau tonu ana ki tēnā whakaaro, ka kore rawa e waikuratia.

    So, what I heard, what Matua Tūhoe taught us at school, was to hold on to the narrative ‘my beautiful lady, my handsome man’.

     

    So, you must carry yourself appropriately, it must be beautiful, you must adorn yourself so you can stand confidently.

     

    So, the look must be clean. Also, in regard to the haka stance, Kahungunu people stand like a meeting house.

     

     

    So, some forms of haka stance that can be seen are the ‘ue tika’, the ‘uehā’ and ‘uenuku’ as well.

     

     

    Those are the different areas of the stance. Ue tika is a straight standing stance. Uehā is to bend slightly, to make yourself shorter. And uenuku is to be seen. That is uenuku – yes.

     

     

    You make the shape of a house and are low to the ground. Those are the elements that Matua Tūhoe taught us, his boys in the group. So that remains with me, I’ll never forget it.

    I pēhea te mauri, i pēhea te wairua, i pēhea te tinana i a koutou e ako ana i ēnā momo tū, i ēnā momo tāera?

    What was the energy like, what was the feeling like, what was the body like when you learnt those stances, that kind of style?

    I pakaru katoa te tore i ēnā whakaakoranga ōna. I pakaru rawa atu anā ko waewae tēnā e wiriwiri ana i te mutunga iho. Ko tangi tēnā e puta ana i ētahi o ngā tamaiti. 

    We were completely wrecked by those teachings of his – completely wrecked. Legs were shaking at the end. Some kids were crying.

    Ētahi e wehe ana i te rōpū, ooh kāo

    And some were leaving the group – “Oh nah!”

    Āe, kua wehe ka kore rawa e hoki mai i tēnā mamae i rangona e rātou, engari, ko te mamae i rangona, ko te kounga o te tū, i puta.

    Nā reira, nā ēnā mamae, nā ēnā pakarutanga, i tū kounga, i tū pakari ai mātou otirā tātou.

    Exactly, some left never to return because of the pain they felt. However, you felt pain, but the result was quality performance. Therefore, through that pain and discomfort came a quality and strong performance from all of us.

    I te mutunga iho ka tū ana koutou ki te atamira i tutuki?

    In the end when you stood on stage, did you achieve [what you set out to do]?

    Ae, āe, ki au nei i tutuki āe, kia kore e whakarekareka i tō tātou kura, i tō māua kura anō hoki, ka waiho ēnā kōrero ki korā, kāti ake, kia mau ki te whakaaro, mā te tangata e mihi nei, nā reira, ko wai māua ki te whakareka i tō māua kura.

    Yes, yes, to me we achieved [our goal]. I won’t boast about our school, I’ll leave that there. 

    However, I’ll hold onto the notion that it is for others to acknowledge [you], so who are we to boast about our school.

    Koia koia, tēnā koe, whakaiti nei i au.

     

    Pēhea te taha waiata, he momo tāera waiata tō koutou? he aha ngā momo whakaakoranga, ngā wheako waiata i ako e koe?

    That’s true, thank you for humbling me. 

     

    How about singing? Did you have a singing style? What were the teachings and experiences that you learnt?

    Ka pono mai aku kōrero, e Ti, kāre au i te paku whakarongo atu ki ngā whakaakoranga reo waiata, nā runga i te whakaaro, ehara tēnei i te korokoro tuī.

     

    Nā reira, ki au nei i pēnei, ā, kātahi ka puta ki tēnā, ko tāku noa, he tuku i te reo waiata. Ki te hapa ka hapa, ki te whati ka whati, engari, he mātanga ake nei a Turei ki te hanga i te waiata, ki te hanga i te oro,

    To be honest, Ti, I didn’t listen at all to the singing lessons because, to me, I am not one with a melodious voice.

     

     

    So, for me, it went in one ear and out the other. I just sang. If I made a mistake, that was that. If I faltered, that was that. However, Tūrei is an exponent in regard to composing songs and arrangements.

    me mihi ka tika ki a ia, nōna anō i whanake i tō tātou reo waiata i tō tātou tuku i te oro o te waiata anō hoki.

    I must acknowledge him. He advanced our singing capabilities as well as our singing arrangements.

    Nā reira, ko ia tēnā, rāua ko Pi tēnā e kaha kawe i tēnā āhuatanga ki roto i tō tātou rōpū. Ko rāua tēnā, ki au nei kāhore he tua i a rāua mō tēnei mea te waiata, te tuku i te oro i te waiata anō hoki. Nā reira,

    So that was him, along with Pi who brought that skillset into our group. That’s them. To me, there is none better than them in regard to singing and arranging songs. So…

    Ki a koe, i whakatō e rātou te hunga pēnā, te hunga ako i ngā puna reo, i whakatō rātou i te whakapono ki roto i a koe? I te mea, kei te kōrero mai koe ehara tēnei i te tangata waiata, engari, kua rongo au i a koe, kei te mōhio au, i te whakarongo koe, i kōrero mai nei koe, kāore koe i te whakarongo engari, kei a koe ngā pūkenga

    To you, did they, those who taught you, instill confidence in you? Because, you’re saying that you’re not a singer, however, I’ve heard you. I know, you were listening. You mentioned you weren’t listening, but you have those skills.

    Kua mau kē pea, kua mau kē.

    Perhaps I grasped [those skills].

    Mō te hunga e whai ana i te ao haka, he aha ōu kupu akiaki ki te hunga e whakaaro pēnā ana mō te hunga e whakaaro ana ehara au i te kaiwaiata nā reira ka tahuri atu au, ‘Oh kāore au i te pīrangi mahi reo waiata i te mea ehara au i te kaiwaiata’.

     

    He aha ōu kupu whakaaweawe ki te hunga ka rongo i te āmaimai ki te waiata, ki te ako ki te waiata, he aha ngā kupu akiaki ki tērā hunga?

    For those following Te Ao Haka, what are your words of encouragement to those who are thinking that way? for those who think I’m not a singer, so they tune out, ooh i don’t wanna do vocals because I’m not a singer.

     

    What are your words of encouragement to those who feel anxious to sing, to learn to sing? What are your words of encouragement to that lot?

    Tuatahi ake, kaua e pēnei i a au. Ahakoa tē taea e koe te waiata, ehara i te mea me kaua koe e whakarongo. Heoi anō, ko te whāinga matua kia tautoko koe i tō rōpū. Nō reira, ahakoa ehara pea koe i te mātanga ki te waiata, te toki ki te waiata.

     

    Nā, ko te tautoko i tō rōpū me te whakatutuki i te whāinga kia ōrite te oro o te katoa, kia rongo i te kounga o tā te katoa whai wāhi atu, i te wāhi ki te waiata, i te wāhi ki te oro, i te wāhi ki te tuku. Nō reira, kaua e pēnei i a au e aro kore nei i te mea tē taea e koe te waiata.

    Firstly, don’t be like me, just cos you can’t sing doesn’t mean you shouldn’t listen, but in saying that the main goal is to have your rōpū’s back. So, even if you're not the sharpest singer, the flashiest singer.

     

     

    You know, having your groups back and achieving that end goal of everybody sounding the same, everybody sounding quality your contribution is key in terms of singing, in terms of sound and in terms of delivery as well. So don’t be like me and just tune out because you can’t sing.

    Āe whakapono nē, whakapono, whakarongo. Āe, kia ora i tēnā, i ēnā kōrero mō te waiata, nā reira, tamariki mā

    Yes, belief, eh, belief, listen. Yes, thank you for that perspective on singing. So, kids - 

    Tukuna tō reo

    Let your voice out

    Ki te whakaaro pēnā koe, te taea te waiata, nē whakarongo, whātoro atu ki ō kaiako I rēira rātou ki te hāpai.

    If you think that way, if you think you can’t sing, listen, reach out to your tutors, they will be there to help.

    Pai tū pai hinga

    No matter what.

    Āe, Nāwai ka oti. Kia ora, wharekura. Ināianei kōrerohia mai mō tēnei mea, i te mea he kaitātaki tāne o mua koe o tō tāua kura, kōrerohia mai mō tērā huarahi, he aha - He aha ētahi o ngā akoranga i runga i tērā huarahi?

     

    He aha o kare-ā-roto i te wā i tapaina ko koe te kaitātaki, i rite koe? ko wai te hunga rānei i hāpai ki te whakarite i a koe?

    Eventually, something will be achieved.Thank you. Wharekura. Now, tell me about this, since you were a past male leader of our school. Tell me about that path. What - What were some things that you learnt along the way?

     

    How did you feel when you were named male leader? Were you ready? Who were the people who helped you get ready?

    Nā reira, i te tau rua mano ngahuru mā iwa, koinā i tapaina māku te tūnga kaitātaki e whakakī. I te tuatahi, i whakakāhore au ki tēnā, ehara i te mea kāre aku whakapono, engari, he kaha nōku te oma kē atu mai ēnā momo tūnga.

     

    Nē, ko au tēnā e pirangi kaha nei te tū ki te rōpū noa kaua e arataki i te rōpū engari, tē taea te aha, nā reira, ko au i tū hei kaitātaki i tēnā tau, i te taha o Hemaima, ko ia te kaitātaki wahine i tērā wā.

    So, 2019, that’s when I was named to fill the male leader role. Initially I declined. Not because I didn’t believe in myself, but because I would always shy away from those sorts of roles.

     

     

    I’m one who wants to stand with the group, not to lead the group. But nothing could be done about it, so I ended up as the male leader alongside Hemaima, the female leader at the time.

    Ko te mea i kaha whakamataku i au, ko te whakaaro kua tū a Hemaima hei kaitātaki e hia kē nei ngā tau kua tū ia hei kaitātaki.

    What scared me the most was that Hemaima had been female leader for years and

    Me te whakaaro anō, ko au tēnei e timata ana, nā reira, kāore e kore kua kitea te taumata e rerekē ana, ko ia tēnā e kawe ana, ko au tēnā e kume ana kē pea. Engari i whakapono au ki tā Matua Tūhoe i whakatau ai, kāti ake, ki tā Matua Para i whakatau ai, nā reira, ko au tēnā i hikitia tēnā mānuka.

     

    Nāwai, nāwai, i puta tōku ihu i tēnā whakataetae, ka kore au e kiia te tūnga i riro i au, engari i puta tōku ihu i tēnā wā, kāti ake, he nui, he nui ngā tairo a Kupe i pāngia i tēnā wā, i pāngia au i tēnā wā.

     

    Nā runga i te whakaaro he āhua ngāwari tōku reo, nā reira, ka tuku ana tōku reo ā ka whango haere, ka whati haere, ka kore aku reo i te mutunga iho o te parakatihi, me hoki mai āpōpō, kātahi kua kore aku reo ki te tuku i te reo tātaki.

     

    Nā reira, he momo tairo a Kupe i pāngia au engari i te mutunga iho, i tutuki i te whai, ki au nei i eke hoki ki taumata kē atu, ki te taumata i hiahia a Matua Tūhoe a Matua Para, kāti ake i te kaupapa kē, āe.

    I was new to the role. So, no doubt the differences in caliber could be seen – she would be carrying and I’d be weighing us down. But I trusted in what Matua Tūhoe and Matua Para had decided, so I took up the challenge.

     

     

     

    In the end, I got through that competition. I won’t say where I placed, but I got through. There were so many ups and downs for me during that time.

     

     

    And because my voice was kind of soft. I would lose my voice by the end of every practice. I’d have no voice the next day to continue leading.

     

     

    So, that was a difficulty I faced. But in the end, I achieved the goal, and, to me, I leveled up to the level that Matua Tūhoe and Matua Para expected of me. But let’s talk about something else, yeah.

    Kaitātaki, rua mano rua tekau, Rāhui Pōkeka, he kaitātaki wahine hou me te mea hoki he hoa tata kōrua, kua tipuria mai te roko kura tae atu ki te wharekura, nā reira, tekau mā toru ngā tau i noho hoa piri tata kōrua ko Kaea i tērā, i a koutou e tipu ana ki roto i te kura. Nā reira, kōrerohia mai I pēhea te tātaki me tētahi o ō tino hoa tipu nō te kuratahi tae noa ki te wharekura?

    Leadership, 2020 Rāhui Pōkeka. There was a new female leader, and you were also good friends having been through school together, through to wharekura. So, for 13 years you and Kaea were good friends while you were growing up in school. So, tell me… What was it like leading with one of your best friends growing up from kuratahi all the way up to wharekura?

    Oh, i mīharo rawa atu, i taumata kē atu ngā kare ā-roto. Nā, ka tātaki koe ki tētahi e mōhio nei koe he toki, ka tātaki koe ki tētahi e mōhio nei koe kei a ia ngā pūkenga ka whakaaro ake koe, ‘Āe, ka pai tērā.’ Engari ka tātaki ana koe ki tētahi kua tipu tahi ki a koe, he rerekē noa atu te kare-ā-roto. 

     

    Nā, i mātua whai māua kia tautoko pai māua i a māua i te mea, ki a au, koirā tētahi o ngā terenga uaua i te wāhi ki te manawaroa me ngā akoranga. I te mea he terenga tino uaua.

     

    Ā, me te mōhio i ētahi wā, i te heke haere te mana, ā, i tīmata te rangirua mēnā i a māua ngā pūkenga ki te kawe i ērā tūranga o ngā kaitātaki o te rōpū.

     

    Nō reira, ko māua tonu ō māua kaiwhakamahara, ‘Āe e taea ana e māua, kei a māua.’ Ā, ko te tauutuutu ki a koe i ō koha mai ki a mātou.

     

    I whakaaro ake māua, heoi anō tā māua, kia kaha te kawe i te kapa, i te kaupapa, i ō koutou akoranga anō hoki.

     

    Ko te tae ki te atamira, ā, i te mea hoki ko tā māua tū whakamutunga nō te orokotīmatanga ki te kura ki te mutu ki te atamira, ka “whakamīharo”. Ki tēnei rā tonu, he tairongo tērā e kore e tino wehe i a koe.

    Oh, it was magnificent, it was a whole different feeling. You know, you lead with someone who you know is good and you lead with someone who you know has the goods and you think oh yea that’s alright but when you lead with someone you’ve basically grown up with it’s just a whole different feeling.

     

     

    And um, we were constantly, you know, making sure we had each other’s back because that was, I would say, one of the most challenging campaigns in terms of patience and teachings. Cos, it was a very hard campaign.

     

    And um you know as sometimes our mana was kind of like starting to drop and we were kinda starting to second guess, whether we were good enough to carry that position of a leader in the group.

     

    And so, we were also our constant reminders that “ye we can do it, ye we can do it, we got it”. And um it was also just to give back to you for everything you have given us.

     

    We thought the least we can do was to carry strong our group, the kaupapa and your fullas teachings as well.

     

     

    It was getting on that stage, and for it being our last stand from starting at kura to finishing it on that stage, it’s just “blows my mind”. Still to this day it’s kinda that feeling that doesn’t quite ever leave you.

    I a kōrua e tukituki ana ā kōrua whakaaro mēnā ka, you know kei a mātou te- Kei a mātou ngā pūkenga ki te… I a koe kōrero ana he aha te mea, i tō i a koutou? He aha ngā āhuatanga i puta ai koe i ērā whakaaro rangirua - a kōrua tahi. He aha i puta ai koe i tērā āhuatanga?

    As you two were working together to think whether, you know, ‘Do we have…’ Do we have what it takes to- Like you were saying. What was it that pulled you through? What was it that pulled you through those whakaaro when you were doubting yourself, both of you. What was it that pulled you through?

    Ki a au, e kore pea au e wātea ki te kōrero mō te katoa, heoi, ka tae te nuinga ki tētahi wāhi ka tīmata te rangirua, ka whakaaro ake ehara ko ia te tangata e tika ana mō te tūranga rā. Heoi, e kīia ana te kōrero: “He rā anō tōmuri te pō roa”.

    I think, I’m not sure if I can speak for everybody but, majority get to a point where they start to doubt themselves and believe that they're not the right person for this. However, there's that “Another day rises after the long night”. 

     He rā anō. Tērā pea he rā uaua, e ahu atu ana pea ngā kohete katoa ki a koe, ā, hei te rangi whai muri mai, kua paruhi kē. Nō reira, ahakoa e koruruki ana, e āwha ana, ka whiti mai anō te rā. Nō reira, āe, me koke tonu, puritia ngā akoranga i whakaakona ki a koe me te whakapono ki a koe anō.

     

    I te mea, ki te kore koe e whakapono ki a koe anō, me kaua pea koe e tū, he aha koe e tū ai ki te kore koe e whakapono ki a koe anō.

     

    Ki a au, koirā te take matua ka mahi kapa haka te tangata, e whakapono ana rātou ki a rātou anō, ā, e hiahia ana rātou ki te whakaatu atu ki te tangata ko wai rātou. Nō reira, āe, koinā anō tāku ki tēnā momo āhuatanga.

    There's always another day you might be just having a bad day, you might be getting all the growling in that day next day and all of a sudden, it’s all rainbow. So, you know just cos sometimes it’s stormy, stormy weathers there’s always sunshine after it. So yea just persevere, holdfast to the teachings you’ve been taught and believe in yourself.

     

     

    Because well, if you don’t believe in yourself then you shouldn’t really stand well why bother standing if you don’t believe in yourself.

     

    And I think that is the main reason why people do kapa haka is cos they believe in who they are and they want to show people who they are. So, yea, that’s all I have to say about that.

    Kia ora i ēnā kōrero, me te ātaahua hoki. Kei te tata pau te wā, engari, ko wai ngā tāngata kua noho hei iho pūmanawa mōu i roto i tō ao haka?

     

    Ko wai ngā tāngata i noho hei ihopūmanawa ki a koe? Ko tō whānau, ō kaumātua, ngā kōrero mō ō tīpuna, ō kaiako, ō hoa?

     

    Ko wai ngā tāngata i whakaawe i a koe i tō ara o te ao haka?

    Thank you for that recount, and a beautiful recount at that. We have nearly run out of time, however, who are your idols in your te ao haka journey?

     

    Who are the people that you’ve looked up to, were they your whānau, your kaumātua, your stories of your tīpuna, your kaiako, your hoa. 

     

    Who have the people who have been an influence for you in your te ao haka journey?

    Mokori anō, ka mihia tuatahi, te katoa te tini ngeangea, te makiu tāngata kua whāngaihia ngā mātauranga ki au, mokori anō ka mihia rātou. Ka kore rawa tēnei kākano e puāwai ki te kore ā rātou whakawai.

     

    Engari, kia mihia nuitia ko Matua Para, ko ia tēnā i kaha penapena i au, i kaha wepua i au, engari i kaha aroha i au kia haere tonu i tēnei haerenga ōku.

     

    Me te whakaaro anō, ko ia tēnā ka kore rawa e huri tuarā mai ki au ahakoa he aha te wā i te pō  i te tekau mā rua karaka i te pō ka tuku karere mai “oh kei te pai koe, me haere tonu koe” aha atu, aha atu.

     

    Ko ia tēnā i kaha pēnāpēnā i au, mei kore ake ia ka kore rawa tēnei e tū pakari i tēnei rā, nā reira mokori anō, ka mihia tēnā nanakia. 

     

    Tuarua ko Matua Tūhoe. Nōna anō te whakaiti i whāngai mai, nōna anō ngā āhuatanga katoa o te ao haka i whāngai mai. Ko ia te haputa pea o ēnei mātauranga ōku.

     

    Kōkā Maks me mihia ia anō hoki, he rerekē tēnā tangata e mōhiotia ana e koe

    First, I must acknowledge the many people who have shared their knowledge with me, the first acknowledgements must go to them. This seed would never have flourished if it wasn’t for their nurturing.

     

     

    However, I must really thank Matua Para. He really cared and pushed me, but he looked after me and made sure I continued with this journey.

     

    Also, he’d never turn his back on me, no matter the time of night. It would be 12 at night and he’d message me saying, ‘You’re alright, you need to keep going’, among other things.

     

     

    He really took me under his wing. If it wasn’t for him, I wouldn’t be standing strong today. So I must acknowledge that mischief.

     

    Secondly, Matua Tūhoe. He taught me humility and everything about te ao haka. He is perhaps the main contributor of the knowledge I now have.

     

    Kōkā Muks, I must also acknowledge her. She is different – like you know -

    He momo, he momo ae. 

    Yes, she is one of a kind.

    He momo tēnā wahine, 

    She is one of a kind -

    Tō tino kaiako

    Your favourite teacher.

    Āe koinā tāna “ko au tō best friend, e kare”, 

    “e kare kāhore.

    ” Engari ki te taha…

    Yes, that’s what she says, ‘I’m your best friend, mate.’

    ‘Nah, mate.’

    However, when it comes to -

    Kai? 

    Food?

    Āe, āe pono pono, ngā kai..

    Yes. Honestly, food - 

    Haerenga ki te toa?

    Rides to the shop?

    Ngā kai i kainga e tātou ka mihia e koe.

     

    Engari, ko te taha whakangahau anō hoki, āe tēnā wairua ngahau ōna, ka kaha rangona e te tī e te tā, ka kaha kitea e te tini e te mano.

     

    Engari, ko tēnā āhuatanga kua āhua tōia mai i a ia, nā reira, ka mihia ia anō hoki, me koutou anō hoki, ā rātou huruhuru, ā rātou huruhuru i te waewae.

     

    Ko koutou hoki tēnā i kaha penapena i au, kāti ake, i a mātou katoa kua puta i te rōpū. Kua tū pakari mātou i a koutou me ā koutou whakaakoranga anō hoki. Āe koinā noa.

    All the food we ate. Thank you.

     

    But, for being fun, too. The fun side she has – everyone can hear and see it.

     

     

    That’s what she brought with her, so I must also acknowledge her. As well as you guys, their colleagues.

     

     

    You also helped me and everyone else who has come through the group. We are resolute because of you and your teachings. Yeah, that’s all.

    Te Kikiri o Te Rangi, Te Rerenga Kotuku. 

    Te Kikiri o Te Rangi, Te Rerenga Kotuku. 

    Te tūnga o te tūnga.

    The performance of all performances.

    Kāore tō ara haka i mutu ki te wharekura. I haere tonu koe, I haere tonu koe and kua tū koe ki Te Matatini, kōrero mai mō tēnā.

     

    I pēhea, i pēhea tō ara haka e haere ana mai i te Kura Kaupapa Māori ki te kapa haka pakeke. He aha, he aha tērā. I pēhea tērā?

    Your haka journey didn’t stop at wharekura, you’ve stood at Te Matatini. Tell me about that.

     

     

    What was it like, what was your haka journey like going from kura kaupapa Māori and then being introduced into senior kapa haka, adult teams. What is that, what was that like?

    I rerekē, i tino rerekē. Tuatahi ake, he hāneanea tēnā i ngā whakaakoranga kura tuarua, i ngā parakatihi kura tuarua.

     

    Nā, mēnā koe ko te tauira i te kura tuarua, e tika ana me mahi koe i tā te kaiako i kōrero ai.

     

    Heoi, i ohorere au i te hāneanea. Ehara i te hāneanea, engari, he tau ngā kapa Matatini.

     

    E āhua pēnei ana, ko koe tōu anō tangata, he pakeke koe, nō reira i tōna tikanga māu anō koe e whakahaere.

     

    It was different, it was very different. First of all, it is quite relaxed compared to secondary teaching secondary practices.

     

    You know you got the, you're a student in secondary so by right what the teacher says you do.

     

    But I was actually quite surprised on how relaxed it is, it’s not relaxed but how tau it is in Matatini based teams.

     

    And it’s kinda more you’re, your own person, you’re an adult so, you should be able to carry yourself.

    Āe, kua tae mai koe me ngā pūkenga, me ngā tūāpapa.

    Yes, you’ve come with the skills and foundation.

    Āe me tēnā whakaaro anō hoki, ehara i te mea i haere, me te kore mōhiotanga ki tēnei mea te ao haka ay.

     

    Nō reira, ahau nei, ehara i te mea kei te whakakūmara au i a au anō, heoi, i mihia au i taku taenga atu ki ētahi rōpū nā runga i ō whakaakoranga ki a mātou i mua, ā, ehara i te mea i te haere puhi atu ki te haka, ehara i te mea he tangata hou ki te haka, he tauhou.

     

    Nō reira, ki a au, he wheako rerekē, ā, e haka tonu ana ahau ki tēnei rangi tonu, ā, kua kore e taea e au tēnei ara ki te kore ko ō whakaakoranga ki a au, ki a mātou. Nō reira…

     

    E whakaaro ake ana ahau koirā tētahi o ngā take e haere tonu ana au, i te mea e pai ana taku kuhu ki tētahi kapa me te whakaaro ake, ‘Oh he mōhioranga ōku mō tēnei, mō tēnā, ā…’

    Yes, that as well. It’s not like you turn up without knowing anything about kapa haka, eh?

     

     

    So, I not to be a bit of a kūmara but I was praised by a couple of groups on my arrival because of what you had taught us prior, and so it wasn’t like they were getting a fresh mind in hakas, they weren’t getting a whole new person a fresh, a fob.

     

    So, I think it was, it was a different experience and I still carry on doing hakas to this day and I would definitely not be able to make it through if it weren’t for what you taught me and taught us as well, so.

     

    I think that is one of the main reasons why I carry on doing it, is cause I can go into a group and say ‘oh I have a reasonable amount of knowledge behind this, behind that and then… ‘

    Kua kore e haere me te rae anake.

    You didn’t go empty handed.

    Āe āe āe tika tāu, kua kore e haere me te hinengaro kore noa. Nā reira, koinā noa.

     

    I tū au ki te taha o Te Rerenga Kotuku ki Te Matatini rua mano tekau mā iwa me Te Kikiri anō hoki, i te tau rua mano rua tekau, ki Wairarapa, tēnā regionals i whakatūria ki konā.

    Yes, yes, you’re right. I didn’t go empty-minded. That’s all.

     

    I stood with Te Rerenga Kōtuku at Te Matatini 2019 and Te Kikiri [o te Rangi] and the 2020 regionals held in Wairarapa.

     

     

    Kua tata pau te wā, e rima miniti e toe ana. Mō ēnei mutunga rima miniti E toru āwhina ka hoatu e koe ki ā tātau children that are studying Te Ao Haka.  He aha te whakahirahira o te ao haka, o te kapa haka?

    We’re nearly at the end of our allocated time, we’ve got five minutes. For these remaining five minutes 3 pieces of advice you will give to our, what would you give to our tamariki e whai ana i te huarahi o te ao haka.  Why te ao haka, why kapa haka?

    Kia toru āwhina, mātauranga rānei, kia whakaarotia ake. Tuatahi, kia manawaroa i te mea ehara te ao haka me te mahi kapa haka i te ara māmā noa iho. Māku tērā kōrero ināia tonu nei.

     

    Ahakoa haere koe ki hea, ahakoa tū koe mō tēhea kapa, e kore e māmā - ā-tinana, ā-hinengaro, ā-wairua anō hoki.

     

    Kua rongo ahau i tērā, nā reira he mea nui te manawaroa. Me tuwhera hoki te hinengaro i te mea ka nui tāu e ako ai, ehara i te mea e herea ana anake ki te kapa haka, ki te waiata, ki te haka, ki te tū rānei, ko te mātauranga kē o roto i te ao haka te mea nui.

     

    Te orokohanga mai o tēnei mea te haka, ngā momo āhuatanga o tēnā iwi, o tēnā iwi.

     

    Nā reira ko aua mea katoa, ngā momo mātauranga kei te ao haka, me pupuri, me whakatinana.

     

    Ka tino hōhonu i ōna wā, hōhonu rawa atu, engari me tuwhera te hinengaro, me rite kia akohia, he pērā rawa te nui o te mātauranga kei te ao haka.

    Three pieces of information or knowledge, interesting. First of all, probably be to persevere cause your journey in te ao haka and mahi kapa haka is not gonna be an easy one. I can tell you right now.

     

    No matter where you go, no matter what team you stand for it is not gonna be easy, physically, mentally and emotionally.

     

    I’ve experienced it firsthand, so perseverance is one. I think to be open minded as well cause you will learn a lot, it’s not just restricted to doing kapa haka, it’s not just about singing, haka, and performing but it’s the knowledge which te ao haka holds.

     

    The origins of this thing, of haka, and the various characteristics of each iwi.

     

    So, all of those, the different bodies of knowledge that te ao haka hold are what you have to, not maintain but also portray.

     

    It can get quite deep, deep real deep but yea, just go in open minded and be ready to be educated as well, cause the amount of knowledge that te ao haka holds.

    He whānui

    Is vast.

    He whānui rawa atu, ka tika.

     

    Whakaaro whakamutunga, me whakapono. Me haere me te whakapono, ki te tīmata te riro o te whakapono, me hiki ake anō, me haere tonu, i te mea me pērā e rangatira ai tō tū i te ao haka.

    Ka āhua kitea tērā i ētahi rōpū e whakapono ana ki tō rātau kounga.

    It’s really vast, right.

     

    And lastly, I think just belief. Go in with belief and if you start to drop your belief, pick that right back up and carry on, because I’m telling you right now, in order to present yourself well in te ao haka. Which you can kinda see in certain groups they believe in their quality.

    Ā rātau mahi

    What they’re doing.

    Ki a au, koirā te rerekētanga o te rōpū autaia me te rōpū pai rawa atu.

    And I think that’s what separates them from being a good team and a great team.

    Kia ora.

    Thank you.

    Ko te whakapono te rōpū ki a ia anō, ki ō rātau kaiako anō hoki, ki a rātau anō hoki, mā tērā whakapono ka tino eke rawa atu, ka tuku koe i tō katoa.

    Is the belief that a group has in their peers, in their tutors as well as in themselves, and I think from that belief you get the best performance, you get the best ah you give the best as well.

    Kia ora me manawatītī, me ngākau māhaki, me te whakapono. Ki a au, he mea nui whakaharahara aua mea e toru. Āe e tautoko ana i ō kōrero. 

     

    E rongo whānuitia ana tēnei kōrero, kapa haka will get you nowhere. Tuatahi, e whakapono ana koe ki tēnā?

    Mm, thank you, perseverance – manawa tītī. Open minded – ngākau māhaki. And believe – whakapono. I think those are 3 very very important factors to have. Yes, I support what you’ve said.

     

    The following statement is heard widely, ‘Kapa haka will get you nowhere.’ First off, do you believe that?

    Tēnā pōhēhē tēnā. 

    That’s totally incorrect.

    Koia, e tautoko ana au 

    Exactly, I agree.

    Tenā pōhēhē tēnā.

    That’s totally incorrect.

    Kua kawea koe ki hea e te kapa haka? He aha rānei ētahi wāhi ka kawea koe ki reira e te kapa haka?

    Where has kapa haka taken you or where can kapa haka take you?

    Tuatahi rā, he hua tonu ngā wāhi ka tae atu koe. Nā te kapa haka. Hei tauira, kua tae tahi tāua ki tāwāhi ki te whakatairanga I te kapa haka. Kua tae rā ki Hawaii, ki Las Vegas, ki Los Angeles, ki te whakatairanga I te āhua o kōnei me te whakaatu I tō tātau ahurea. 

     

    Kua tae ahau ki Aotearoa whānui nā ngā kaupapa huhua, kaupapa rerekē, e kawe nei tēnei kaupapa kapa haka, nā reira tē aro i a au ko wai e kī ana he hua kore tō te whai i tēnei kaupapa, māku tonu e mea atu he hua nui.

     

    Ehara koia anake, ko te mātauranga anō tētahi mea nui, ka eke rawa atu. Te rahi o te mātauranga, kia kī rā ahau i konei, he nui te mātauranga kei roto i te ao haka.

    Well first of all, kapa haka can take you a lot of places. For example, you and I both we’ve been overseas to promote kapa haka for kapa haka journeys. We’ve been over to Hawaii, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, just to promote what it’s like here and what our culture is. 

     

    It’s taken me all over New Zealand in terms of different events, different kaupapa, taken by kapa haka, so I have no idea whose saying it can’t take you nowhere but I can guarantee you it does. 

     

     

    Not only that but it can also take you, in terms of knowledge, very far. The amount of knowledge, and I cannot stress this enough, the amount of knowledge that te ao haka pertains is.

    Ka hora hoki nē?

    And provides aye?

    Me rahi tonu tō kete i te mea ka tere kī, ka pūrena i tōna otinga iho. Kāore he wāhi e kore koe e tae ake nā te ao haka.

    You better have a big bag ready because, you’re about to fill that up really quick and overflow it.  There is no place that te ao haka can’t take you.

    Mā te kapa haka koe e kawe ki te ao.

    Kapa haka can take you around the world.

    Arā te kōrero, te ao haka.  Ko te haka e kawe ana i a tātou ki te ao, ko te ao e tō mai ki a mātou ki te mātaki i te haka hoki.

     

    E tautoko ana au i tō whakatau, kāore au i te whakapono ki tērā kōrero, engari, kia rongo ngā tauira, he aha ngā hua ka puta ina ka whai rātou i te ao haka. 

     

    Ka pai, mā te haka koe e kawe ki te ao, e kawe ki te motu katoa ka tūtaki koe ki ngā tangata rerekē o te ao nē.   

     

    I pēhea ngā whakaaro o ngā tāngata nō tātau i tāwāhi, he aha ētahi mea i kite ai koe, i pēhea mai rātau ki tō tātau Māori culture?

    And thus, the name ‘Te Ao Haka’. It is kapa haka taking us to the world, and the world comes to us to watch kapa haka as well. 

     

    I support your viewpoint; I also don’t agree with that statement. However, just so the students can hear, what outcomes can they expect if they pursue Te Ao Haka?

     

    Ok yep, haka can take you around the world, it can take you around the country and you meet people from around the world, yes?

     

    What were people’s reactions like when we were overseas, what were some things that you saw, how did they react and respond to our ahurea Māori?

    Tuatahi rā, ko te nuinga he tūruhi, nā reira…’hei aha koa, he aha rā ngā hua o tērā pito o te ao’ heoi, nō te tūnga ake, ka heke ngā roimata i te tūrangahākoa, ā, ka…

    Well first of all, majority are tourists right so, everyone there.. ‘oh well, I wonder what that place in the worlds got to offer’ however when we stood up, nothing but tears and joy and real like…

    Ohorere nē?

    Surprised, eh?

    Āe, i te mea kāore te nuinga i te mōhio koirā te āhua o konei, ehara i te kutikuti hipi noa iho… me ērā mea.

    Yea because a lot of people don’t know that this is what it’s like here, it’s not just sheep shearing and...that stuff

    Te noho ki rō tēneti.

    Living in tents

    Koia hoki. He ao noa atu kei tua o tā rātau e kite ana, he ao kāore e tino whakatairangatia ana, ka nui rā taku whakamihi ki a koutou e whakanui nei i tēnei ao kia mārama kehokeho ai te tangata ki ōna āhuatanga katoa…

    Yea, pono. So, yea there’s a whole other world behind the world that they can see and that is the world that does not get promoted a lot and I think, you fullas promoting this is just beautiful cause now people understand comprehensively, what this ao is about and what this kaupapa…

    Comprehensively...kōrero

    Comprehensively. Speak!

    Ehara i te mea koirā anake, i ōna wā ka kawea koe e te kaupapa nei ki te ao o te whaiāipo, kua tūtaki ahau ki taku hoa, ā, ka nui taku aroha ki a ia. Nā reira mehemea koirā tāu e hiahia nā, , haramai ki tēnei ao, haramai ki tēnei ao.

    Not only that, but it can also take you into places of romance, I’ve met my partner which we have been together and love dearly. So, if that’s a place you’re looking to gocome along, welcome to this world.

    Arā tētahi hua e hika mā. Can even find aroha ki roto i ngā mahi haka. Me te ātaahua hoki kua kite au i a kōrua e tipu matomato ana me tō kōrua aroha, i reira au, i tō kōrua piri tahi, ko au tētahi o te hunga e kaha. ‘He rawe, he rawe kōrua!’

    There’s another benefit, my friends. You can even find love by doing kapa haka. And how beautiful, I’ve seen you two grow and your love grow too. I was there when you two initially got together. I was one of the many saying, ‘Great! You two are awesome.’

    Anā ko te taumautanga.

    Yes. Finding love.

     

    Āe, koinā te hua kua puta, me te ātaahua i te wā e tū ngātahi ana kōrua ki te haka, he tino ātaahua, rangatahi tonu ana, ka noho hei iho pūmanawa mā ō kōrua teina i ngā kura o Te Wairoa, o Heretaunga, he hua kua puta i te kura.

     

    He kōrero anō, he kōrero anō ōu. He kōrero atu anō kua mahue, hei tāpiri rānei ki ēnei kōrero?

     

    Yes, that’s the outcome. And it’s so beautiful to watch you two perform together, it’s so beautiful. And you’re still young, but you are hero’s to your juniors at your respective schools, Te Wairoa and Heretaunga. You are products that have come out of your schools.

     

    Do you have anything else to add? Is there anything else we’ve missed out that you might wanna put into your kōrero?

    He paku āki tēnei noa, mēnā koe he nanakia, he hianga pēnei i au.

     

    Kāti ake, mēna he tamaiti nanakia tāhau, tēnā tuku atu ia ki tēnei mea te ao haka. Kāore e kore ka kitea te huritanga, te whanokē ka tipu i roto i a ia. 

     

    Ka mutu, ka kitea te rangatira ka pua mai i roto i a ia. He aha au e kīa nei ēnā kōrero, ko au tēnā, tētahi o ngā hua, ko au tēnā i nanakia rawa atu.

     

    Āhua haututū ana ahau i te wā o taku nohinohitanga, heoi nā te ao haka ahau i whakapakeke, kua tipu, ā, kua tangata kē. Kua rerekē noa atu i taku haututūtanga o tērā wā.

    Just a little encouragement, if you are a mischief person like me,

     

    Or, if you have a mischief child, guide them to Te Ao Haka. There is no doubt that you will see a change in their behaviour.

     

    Furthermore, you will see a leader being made. Why do I say this? Because that’s me, I’m an example, I was really mischief.

     

    I was a little mischief one when I was younger, however, because of te ao haka I’ve matured, I’ve grown and it has changed me a lot. In terms of what I was, the little gremlin I use to be

    Mm āe

    Mm, yes. 

    Nā reira mehemea he tamaiti hīanga tāu, ko taku akiaki kia tukua ki tēnei kaupapa - ka kitea te rerekētanga.

    So, if you do have any tamaiti that are mischief that are hianga I encourage you to send them to this kaupapa and you will see a difference.

    Kua rongo koutou i konei, e te whānau.

     

    Nā reira he pai tērā kōrero hei whakakapi i tā tāua pahupahu i tēnei rangi. E tika ana mokori anō, kia mihia koe Taupiri te maunga Petera. Raukura o Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga, kaihaka o nāianei e whakakanohi nei i a Ngāti Kahungunu whānui, e mihi ana ki a koe mō ngā kōrero ātaahua e pārekareka ana ki te taringa, ki te ngākau haka.

     

    Mō te aha te take, mō ā tātou tamariki e tipu matomato mai ana ki roto i ngā kura puta noa i te motu, nā reira, mai i Te Tāhuhu o te Mātauranga, mai i te ao haka e mihi ana, e mihi ana. Kāre e ārikarika ngā mihi ki a koe, e whakawātea mai nei i a koe kia hora ēnei kōrero hei painga mā ā tātou tamariki. Nā reira tēnā koe, tēnā koe e te nanakia, tēnā rawa atu koe.

    You heard it here e te whānau,

     

    Well, I think that’s a great place to end our discussion today. It is only right to thank you, Taupiri te Maunga Petera. A graduate of Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga, a performer who now represents the entirety of the Ngāti Kahungunu area, my acknowledgements to you for the beautiful discussion that was pleasant to the ear and to the haka-loving soul.

     

    For what purpose? For our children who are growing up in schools all over the country. So, from the Ministry of Education, from Te Ao Haka, thank you, thank you. We cannot thank you enough for making yourself available to share your thoughts to benefit our children. So, thank you, thank you, mischief, thank you.

    Ka tau.

    It is done.

    Taupiri and wahine stand at the top level of auditorium and perform haka with actions to accompany depicting the words. 

    Close ups of multiple shots of carvings, Birds eye view pan shot of green hills with a river in the foreground. Low close-up view of a river with trees in the background, followed by multiple shots of more of the same river. Panned shot of the ocean with a cliff island in the middle. A close up of a large tree trunk debris on the beach with the same cliff island in the distance. Close up shot of the tree debris trunk where it has snapped. The beach with the ocean in the background with waves breaking on the shore. Close up shot of a carving. Black background screen with the words “Ministry of education, Te Tāhuhu o te Mātauranga” displayed.

    [ Accordion ]

    [With music playing in the background] 

    Being displayed are video images Waitangi Treaty Grounds and northland beaches. Next is a a close up of the wharf beach and the road sign for Kaikohe. Videos of monuments from the north and the whare Runanga at Waitangi Treaty Grounds then back to beaches and a close up on the carved pou. Flicking from images of carvings and beaches with sunsets. Then there is a short snippet of a mural on a street with people walking before shooting to a shot of the Mangamuka Radio station, then the welcome sign in Kaitaia and the road sign of Doubtless Bay and Bay of Islands ending with a shot of the Tino rangatiratanga flag before the final shot of Waitangi with Te Tai Tokerau title. The intro closes off with text “Te Ao Haka” accompanied by the Te Ao Haka logo.

    Te Reo Māori

    Te Reo Pākehā

    Kua ū nei a Aotea mai Te Tai Hauāuru tatū mai ki Te Tai Tokerau. Taranaki maunga nekeneke atu kia piri mai ki a Hikurangi, ki a Manaia. Ko te uri tēnei o Turi a Rongorongo e piri nei ki ngā uri a Reitu, a Reipae, ko te mauri o tēnei ariki, ko te mauri o ēnei tauira e mihi kau atu ana ki a kōrua. Nau mai, piki mai, kake mai ki tēnei hōtaka e kīa nei ko te ao ‘aka. Tēnā whakamārama mai ko wai koe, nō ‘ea koe.

    My canoe, Aotea, has arrived from the West Coast and reached the lands of the North. The mountain of Taranaki has moved to join Hikurangi, and Manaia. I am the descendant of Turi a Rongorongo, connecting with the descendants of Reitu, of Reipae, this is the excellence which inspires, the excellence, which is superior, I acknowledge you both. Welcome to this show, titled Te Ao Haka. Now I call upon you both to explain to the viewers who you are, where you are from, and let’s start with you, my senior.

    Karangahia ai ōku maunga whakahī, i ōku maunga kōrero. I ngā pou o te whare tapu o Ngāpuhi. Manaia titiro ki Rākaumangamanga, Rākaumangamanga titiro ki Tokerau, Tokerau titiro ki Maungataniwha, Maungataniwha titiro ki Panguru ki Papata, Panguru Papata titiro ki Whiria te paiaka o te riri, te kawa o Rāhiri, Whiria titiro ki Te Ramaroa, Te Ramaroa titiro ki Pūhanga-tohora, Pūhanga-tohora titiro ki Maunganui, Maunganui titiro ki Tutamoe, Tutamoe titiro ki Manaia. Ēnei maunga i rohe pōtaengia te whare tapu o Ngāpuhi. Mai Tāmaki Te Reinga, Ko Ranginui tonu te tuanui ko Papatuānuku te paparahi. Ko mao tēnei ko ngā uri o rātou mā, ngā maramara iho o te whare tapu o Ngāpuhi. 

     

    Ko Pouerua te maunga 

    Ko Waitangi te awa

    Ko Ngātokimatawhaorua te waka

    Ko Te Tii te marae

    Ko Te Tiriti o Waitangi te whare tupuna

    Ko Ngāti Rāhiri me Te Kauimua ōku hapū

    Ko Ngāpuhi te iwi

    Ko Isaiah Apiata taku ingoa, tēnā koutou

    I call upon my proud mountains, my mountains full of stories, the pillars of the sacred house of Ngāpuhi. From Manaia look to Rākaumangamanga, from Rākaumangamanga look to Tokerau, from Tokerau look to Maungataniwha, from Maungataniwha look to Panguru, to Papatā, from Panguru Papatā look to Whiria the seat of military prowess, the custom of Rāhiri, from Whiria look to Te Ramaroa, from Te Ramaroa look to Pūhanga-tohora, from Pūhanga tohora look to Maunganui, from Maunganui look to Tutamoe, from Tutamoe look to Manaia. These mountains encircle the sacred house of Ngāpuhi, from Tāmaki Te Reinga, Ranginui is the roof, Papatūānuku is the foundation. We two, are their descendants, the remnants of the sacred house of Ngāpuhi.

     

    Pouerua is the mountain.

    Waitangi is the river.

    Ngātokimatawhaorua is the canoe.

    Te Tii is the marae.

    Te Tiriti o Waitangi is the ancestral house.

    Ngāti Rāhiri and Te Kauimua are my subtribes.

    Ngāpuhi is the tribe.

    My name is Isaiah Apiata, greetings to you all.

    Ka titiro atu au ki ōku maunga, ko Puketohunoa ko Panguru Papata e kore e nekenekehia. Ka rere ngā wai ki ōku awa, ko Taumarere ko Waihou e kore e mimiti. Ka hangaia ōku mātua tupuna ki ngā wharenui ko Ngāti Manu, ko Waimirirangi e kore e warewaretia. Ka hoea rā ōku mātua tupuna i te waka o Ngātokimatawhaorua. I karapoti nei i ngā hapū, ko Ngāti Manu, ko Te Waiariki, ko Ngāpuhi nui tonu te iwi. Ki te taha o tōku pāpā, ko Tāne Thomas tōku matua. Ki te taha o tōku māmā ko Karen Wynyard tōku whaea. Ko Muritere Apiata tēnei e mihi nei.

    I look to my mountains, Puketohunoa, Panguru Papatā, that will never be moved. The waters of my river flow, those being Taumārere and Waihou, that will never dry up. My ancestors built the meeting houses of Ngāti Manu and Waimirirangi that will never be forgotten. My ancestors rowed the canoe of Ngātokimatawhaorua. I am surrounded by my subtribes, Ngāti Manu and Te Waiariki, Ngāpuhi Nui Tonu is the tribe. My father is Tāne Thomas. My mother is Karen Wynyard. My name is Muritere Apiata, and I greet you all.

    Tēnā rawa atu kōrua, me te maringa nui nā mātou kia tae pai mai nei kōrua ki te ora nei i ngā w’eako i ngā kōrero e hāngai pū nei ki ō kōrua ao haka. 

     

    Nō reira, nōku te maringanui me te hōnore ki te noho tahi nei ki a kōrua tahi i tēnei rā me te kapo ake i ō kōrua wheako, me tā kōrua whai wāhi atu ki te ao haka mai i te whānautanga rā anō, ā, ā mohoa nei. Nā reira, kia kōrero mai kōrua mō te wā tuatahi i whai wāhi atu ai, i whai wheako ai rānei ki te ao haka.

    Greetings to you both, we’re so fortunate that you have both come to share your experiences in te ao haka.

     

     

    So, the privilege and honor is mine to sit here with you both today and to be able to extract no doubt the experiences and the collective engagements that you have had i roto i te ao haka from birth to today. And so, I'd like to get you to share with me, what are some of your earliest experiences or exposures i roto i te ao haka

    Nā runga i te mana o tō pātai, e tika ana māku e whakanuia ōku kaumātua ōku kuia. Nā rātou ano te whenu o te whakapapa, te whenu o te haka, te whenu o te reo, te whenu o tātou tikanga, o tātou kawa i pupuri mai anō, mai anō, mai anō tae tonu mai ki a tāua, otirā ki a tātou e āta whakawhiti whakaaro tēnei rā. Nā konā au ka mihia ki ō tātou kaumātua kei reira te puna o te kii, te puna o te kōrero, me te puna o te mātauranga. Nōku anō te whiwhi i taku whakatupuranga ake. E noho au ki ngā rekereke ōku mātua, ōku tupuna i roto i te whare kaumātua o te Tiriti o Waitangi.

    Ia wiki, ia Waitangi mai te tahi ki te ono kite katoa au ngā mananui o te ao Māori whanga mai ki runga i Te Tii marae. Koia au e kite i te pūkana, i te putē o te karu, o te whātero o te arero, te wiri, te haka, te mōteatea. Nā konā au i ngana, i tinga taku hiahia kia nōhia e au ki roto i tēnei ao o te haka. Engari ko ngā ihorei, ko ngā ruānuku, ko ngā maruwehi nō rātou tonu tērā e whakaatu[1] [2]  mai nā ki au mai anō tae tonu mai ki tēnei rā. 

    Given the nature of your question, it is only right that I acknowledge my elders. For it was them who held the strands of genealogy, of haka, of the language, of our customs, of our rituals, from long ago right through to us both, to us all sharing our thoughts today. Thus, I acknowledge our elders, the source of the word, the source of discussion, the source of knowledge. I experienced a privileged upbringing. I sat at the feet of my forefathers, of my ancestors in my ancestral house, Te Tiriti o Waitangi. Every Waitangi, from one to six I would see all of the stalwarts of the Māori world waiting to come on to Te Tii marae. That’s where I was exposed to pūkana, to the wide-eyed stare, to the protruding of the tongue, to the quivering of the hands, the haka, the mōteatea. That is where I became eager, and it became likely that I would frequent this world of haka. However, it was those leaders, those sages, those esteemed ones who displayed that to me long ago, which remains with me today.

    Ko taku timatatanga, whakaaro nui ana ahau ki ōku mātua, nā rātou ano i whakatō tērā kākano ki roto i ahau. I ahau e nepa ana ko ngā mahi o ōku mātua me ōku tuahine, he haere i te motu he whāngaihia i ngā mātauranga o ngā taonga puoro. Ngā taonga puoro Māori. Nā roto i ērā mahi i taea te whakawhiti atu ki tāwahi ki te whāngaihia i ēnei mātauranga o ō tātou ahurea ki iwi kē atu, ki tangata ke atu. Nā roto i ērā mahi i taea ahau me aku tuahine ki te tū pakari, ki te whakahua me te whakatinanahia i ngā mahi o te ao haka. otirā, maumahara ki te wā i te kura kaupapa Māori o te Tonga o Hokianga ahau e kuraina. Ka tū au hei kaitātaki wahine mō tērā o ngā ohu, tērā o ngā rōpū i whakataetaehia i Panguru Papata. Nō reira, mā ērā kaupapa e rua i timatahia taku ao haka.

    Firstly, I must acknowledgments my parents, for they instilled that seed within me. When I was a child, my parents and my sisters’ work was to travel the country and teach Māori musical instruments, Māori instruments. Through that work we were able to travel overseas and share that knowledge of our culture to other groupings, to other peoples. Through that work, my sisters and I were able to stand staunch, to express, and embody the teachings of te ao haka. I also remember when I attended Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o te Tonga o Hokianga. I was the female leader for that particular group which competed in Panguru Papatā. So, it was those two events that started my haka world.

    ‘E rawe! Tēnā, mai I ō w’eako, I a kōrua e ārahi ana I a Te Pū Ao, I a kōrua e manutaki ana I tērā, tēnā kōrero mai mō ngā w’eako e hāngai pū ki tēnā āhuatanga.

    Awesome, So, from your experience, when you both tutored Te Pū Ao, when you both led that, please explain your experience with that aspect. 

    He taonga te whakaiti, he taonga te noho noa, te whakarongo kau ki ngā hiahia ki ngā wawata a tō kapa. He taonga te āta whakatakoto tika i ngā kōrero. Me pēhea te neke, me pēhea te mahi i ngā mahi. He taonga te whakatauira ake i ngā mahi e hiahia nei i ngā kaiwhakaako kia whakaputa e mātou. He taonga te pupuri i tō ihi kia puta tika i te wā e whakaharatau ana mātou. He taonga te whakakaha i tō kapa kia aru nei i ō tauira. He taonga te āta poipoi i ō mema kua āhua heke ana i te ngoi. He taonga te haere te horoi i te rīhi, te whakapai i te wharetiko, te whakapai i te wharekai. 

    Humility is precious, sitting still is precious, so too is listening carefully to the needs and the desires of your group. Carefully laying out your message is precious. How to move, how to do the work. Exemplifying the work that the tutors want us to do, is precious. Withholding your thrill so that you may release it at the correct time when we are practicing, is precious. Strengthening your group to follow your example, is precious. Nurturing your members whose energy levels are depleting, is precious. Going to wash the dishes, clean the toilets and the dining room, is precious.

    He taonga te noho noa te tukuna i tō kapa kia kai tuatahi ko koe kai konga konga konga konga hinu kua mahue ki te hōpane. Tērā te tauira nui o tēnei mea te kaitātaki tāne, te manukura tāne, te manukura wahine. Ko koe te tino, ahatia kihei koe e meinga ko au te tino. Mā tō kapa tēnā e whakanuia i a koe. 

    Sitting back is precious and allowing your group to eat before you and you eat the crumbs and the leftover oil in the pan. That is the biggest example of the male leader, and the female leader. You are the focal point, though you wouldn’t call yourself the main. Let your group acknowledge you as such.

    Mā tō kapa, mā roto i ō mahi ā-ringa e kite ‘āe, he tangata ka hiahia ahau te whai atu.’ Tēnei mea te whakaiti he akoranga nui, tōna hōhonutanga, tōna whānuitanga, tōna teiteitanga, engari ko tō tauira ki tō kapa te mea nui. ‘hatia ko riro ki au tērā mana, ko taku rangatira tonu, nā, ko taku wahine. 

    Rikarika katoa āna tohutohu mai ki au engari kaua e riria, engari āta pupurihia, āta whakaarohia. He mahi tā te kaitātaki tāne, he mahi tā te kaitātaki wahine engari ko ngā mātāpono ki tō te kaitātaki mahi ko te tauira atu i te hūmarie. 

    Through your actions, your group will see ‘yes, that is a person I’d like to follow.’ Humility is a big learning, its depth, its width, its height, but being the example for your group is the main thing. Though that responsibility rests with me, my leader is still my wife.

    Her instructions are significant, but I do not get angry, instead, I hold on to them and think them through. The male leader has a role, so does the female leader, but the maxims, in the role of the leader, are to exemplify good nature.

    Ki runga i te atamira, ki muri i te atamira. I roto i te wānanga roa nei ko koe tēnā kei reira te wānanga mua noa i te tangata ko ia te mea wehe, te wehenga kē atu o te tangata. Engari ko taku mātāpono nui mō tērā o ngā hiahia ko te hūmarie, ko te whakaiti, ko te whakaiti, ko te tino whakaiti rawa atu.

    Both on the stage and off the stage. In these lengthy wānanga it is you who is out in front of the people, that is the distinguishor, that is what separates you from everyone else. But the biggest maxim there is good nature, is humility, humility, and even more humility.

    Āe. Kua kōrero mō te rahinga, mō te whānui o tērā tūranga kia tū hei kaitātaki. Ehara i te mea me pono aku kōrero, ehara i te mea he tūranga mama noa iho, he tūranga ngāwari. Kāhore. He tino uaua i ētahi wā. Engari mōku ake, ko te mea nui me tika ā muri, me tika hoki ā mua.

    Me rongo i tō tira, i tō kapa i tō ihi i ngā wā katoa. Me rongo i tō reo kia taea e rātou te hauhau mai. Me te whakakaha ake. Āe. 

    Yes. The length and breadth of that role has been discussed. And it’s not as though, I’ll be honest, it’s not as though it is an easy role or relaxed role. No. It’s very difficult at times. But for me, the main thing is that both the back and front need to be taken care of.

    Your party, your group, needs to feel your force at all times. Your voice must be heard so that they are able to heed. And go louder. Yeah.

    Nō reira, i au e tū ana hei kaitātaki mō Te Pū Ao, nōku te hōnore, te maringa nui. He maha ngā wheako i puta, mai tērā, mai aua wā i tū engari, he rerekē te tū ki te taha o tōku hoa rangatira.

    So, when I stand as leader of Te Pū Ao, I’m honoured, and so fortunate. I had lots of experiences, from those times that I stood, however, it’s another thing altogether standing with my husband.

    He rerekē tērā tū ki a koe anō hei tū takitahi nei ki te taha o tō hoa rangatira. Ka taea e māua te whakakaha i a māua anō. Otirā, ka rongo i te uaua i ētahi wā, ko māua tērā ka noho kokona, ka karakia, ka kōrerotahi. Kia puta mai ngā hoa, kia puta mai te kaha mō te kapa. Mō te kapa te take.

    That stand is different from standing alone, that stand beside your husband. We are able to strengthen one another. Certainly, it is sometimes difficult, we sit in the corner, we karakia, we talk with one another. To bring forth friendship, to bring forth strength, for the group. For the betterment of the group.

    Rirerire mai te ātaahua o ērā kōrero, tā te mea nei he pono. He pono te katoa. I runga i tērā ko ērā mātāpono, ērā uara i w’akatōngia e kui mā, e koro mā, kāore e kore e waimeha noa me pupuri tonu mō ake ake ake. 

    What stunning words those were, because they are true. They are all so true. Further to that, those maxims, those values that were laid down by the elders, will never diminish, and must be held onto forever.

    Ko tāku nei e huri nei ki ngā tikanga mō te takiwā nei. Ehara mōku te kii mō Ngāpuhi, e kāo. Ko tāku e mea nei mā kōrua e mea mai i ngā tikanga i roto i ō ake iwi, i roto i ō ake ‘apu

    mō tēnei mea te haka. Nō reira tēnā kōrero mai mō ētehi āhuatanga e kaha nei i roto i ō ake. Kāre anō ētehi rāwaho e kite. Tēnā kōrero mai mō ēraka tūāhuatanga.

    Now I’ll turn to the ways of this region. It’s not for me to say, the ways of Ngāpuhi, no. My request is for you both to discuss the ways of your respective tribes, your respective subtribes about this thing, that is haka. So please tell me about some unique aspects of your people. That isn’t done by others outside. Please tell me about those aspects.

    Ko te tū o te tāne he mea whakawā i ahau i roto i ngā whakataetae ā-rohe mō ngā kura tuarua me ngā kura tuatahi. Kua āhua kite i te ngaronga o te tū a Ngāpuhi ki runga i te whatārangi. Kua āhua tū e tū ana ngā tāne i a rātou e haka, e āhua, e tū ana tō rātou āhua tū, e tū tōtika kīhei e piko ngā pona

    The stand of the male is something I am put in as a judge for in the secondary and primary regional competitions. I have seen, to a certain degree, the loss of the style of Ngāpuhi on the stage. The men sort of just stand while they haka, they sort of, they’re standing upright, standing straight, with no bending of the knees.

    Ko tā ngā kōrero o taku whaea e meinga mai ki au “me tata o pāoro ki te papa” koirā te āhua o te tū e rite ana ki te whare. Engari te uaua mārika o tērā tū, te pupuri i tērā āhua tū nā runga i te mea kua tata koe ki te papa. Ko ō nekehanga kei runga ake i ō poho, ko te pupuri i te rangi o te haka.

    The words imparted to me by my mother were “your testicles must be near the ground” that way your stance resembles a house. But that stance is indeed difficult, maintaining that stance, because you’re so close to the ground, you’ve also got to consider your movements above your chest, and maintain the tone of the haka.

    Engari ko te mea uaua kia pakari ake ngā waewae kia whakaaro pērā, kia tata o pāoro ki te papa. Tērā te tū o Ngāpuhi mai anō. Engari rā kua kite au kua āhua Tūhoe tā mātou tū iāianei, kua āhua iwi kē atu nā runga i te māmā.

    But the real difficulty is in the strength of the legs, to think like that, to bring your testicles close to the ground. That is the stance of Ngāpuhi from long ago. However, I have noticed that we’ve now adopted a stance similar to that of the Tūhoe people, we’ve followed another tribe because it’s easier.

    Engari ki te whakatauira ake i te manukuratanga, i te hautupuatanga o Ngāpuhi, tika ana kia wāwahingia, kia whānui ake ō waewae, me te whakatata i tō tou ki te papa. Nā konā e kite i te tū o Ngāpuhi i roto i tēnei mea te haka. Hau tētahi o ēnei whakatauira ake i tērā momo. 

    But if you are to demonstrate the leadership, the fearsome style of Ngāpuhi, then the correct way is to separate, and widen your legs, bring your bottom near the ground. Through that, you will see the stance of Ngāpuhi in this thing that is called haka. I am one who personally follows that style.

    Āhua rite ki Te Tai Rāwhiti tā mātou tū o te haka engari tērā anō rā tētahi tikanga nui e pā kau ake i te haka me te oro o te haka. Tērā anō tētahi take wāku, take nui tēnei. Wētahi o tātou tamaiti e haka mehemea he ure nui tō rātou, ko taka katoa o rātou rangi

    Our haka stance is similar to that of the East Coast. However, that is one of the main customs pertaining to the haka, and the sound of the haka. That is one issue I have; this is a big issue. Some of our children perform the haka as if they have a large penis, their voice has been lowered.

    Engari e hē tērā. Ko tā tātou rangi o te haka e rite ana i a tāua e kōrero ana. Kaua heke i te rangi engari me piki ake tō rangi ki ngā rangi teitei rawa kia taea te hunga ki tua rā anō te rongo i tō reo, te rongo i ō kupu me te mita o tō haka e pāteretere mai ana.

    But that is incorrect. The pitch of the haka of our people is similar to this in which we speak. Don’t drop the key, instead, raise it high up into the sky so that your voice may be heard by those beyond, they will hear your voice and the dialect of your haka flowing forth.

    Nō reira ko te rangi me te tū o te haka kei reira rā tētahi tikanga nā Ngāpuhi ake e kaha pupuri nei. Kia tata te tou ki te papa me te hiki i tō rangi, te note o tō rangi ki tua rā anō, kaua e whakaheke i te oro o tō reo.

    So, the key and the stance of haka is where you will see the customs of Ngāpuhi being held. Lower your bottom to the ground and lift your key, the note of your key all the way beyond, don’t lower the sound of your voice.

    Āe. Mōku ake he rerekē te tū o te tāne ki te tū o te wahine. I ētahi wā ka kite i te weriweri o te wahine e āhua pērā ana ki te tāne. Engari ki ahau nei me ū ki te tū a te wahine. He ātaahua te tū a te wahine. Ahakoa ka taea e koe te whakamataku i te tangata, engari he rerekē tērā whakamataku ki te whakamataku o te tāne.

    Yes. For me, the male stance differs from that of the female. Sometimes you will see the fierceness of the females, like the males. I personally believe that you must maintain a feminine stance. The stance of a woman is beautiful. Though you’re able to scare a person, that form of scaring is different from the way a male scares.

    Kua meinga te oro o te reo. Āe, tika ana. He rerekē te oro o te tāne ki te oro o te wahine. Me kake ake te wahine, kaua e noho noa ki taua oro o te tāne engari me piki ake. Kāre e tino rongo i te rerekētanga i ēnei rā. Ētahi wā he āhua, e pērā ana. Pāpaku ana ngā reo katoa. 

    The tone of voice has been spoken about. Yes, that is correct. The tone of the male differs from the tone of the female. The women must pitch higher, don’t just stick to that same octave as the males, instead, you must go higher. You don’t really hear the difference these days. Sometimes it’s just, yeah, like that, quite low, the voices are all low.

    Engari mehemea ka taea te eke ki tērā o ngā rangi, me eke wāhine mā, me eke kōtiro mā. Me eke ki tērā taumata kia rongo i te reka o te reo. Kia rongo hoki kia taea te kite me te rongo i te rerekētanga. He rōreka te rongo i tērā note me tērā note hoki e mahi ngātahi ana. Nō reira āe, tautoko o kōrero.

    But if you’re able to get up to the higher pitch, then the women and girls alike must get up there. You must reach that level in order for the pleasantness of your voice to be heard. So that you can see and hear a clear distinction. It’s melodious to hear all the different octaves working in sync. So yes, I agree with your statement.

    Me tētahi atu tikanga ko te huringa o te waewae. Te huringa o te waewae he tikanga nō mai rānō tēnā. Te nuinga o ngā hapū i roto i au o Te Pēwhairangi he hapū e noho takutai ana. Tata atu rā ki ngā wāhi kohikohi pipi, kohikohi hūai. 

    Another custom is the turning of the feet. The turning of the feet is a custom from long ago. The majority of the subtribes within my people of Te Pēwhairangi are situated near the beach. Near the areas where you can collect pipi and hūai.

    Nō reira ko tērā tikanga nō ngā wāhine i te mea, haere te wahine ki te kohi i te wahine. Ko ngā pipi ko ngā hūai he uri katoa rātou. He tamāhine katoa rātou nā Tangaroa. Nō reira kua riro mā ngā wāhine hei kohi i ngā pipi. I a rātou e kakapa ana, e rārangi ana ka haerere me ō rātou kete kohi pipi. I a rātou e kohi ana i ngā pipi ka waiata rātou.

    So that custom belongs to the females because the females would go and collect the females. The pipi and the hūai are all descendants. They are all daughters of Tangaroa. So that task was assigned to the women to collect the pipi. While they’re lining up they would go with their kete and collect pipi. While they were collecting pipi, they would sing.

    Kia whakaharikoa, kia whakawaiwaiā[3]  i a rātou e kōrero ana, i a rātou e ngau tuarā ana, i a rātou e porosisi mō ngā take o te wā. Koirā ko ā rātou mahi. Kia nekeneke i te waewae ka pātere mai te pipi, te hūai ka kohia ka haere whakamua, ka pātere, ka puta, ka kohia ka haere whakamua.

    They would do so in order to bring joy, and beauty while they conversed, while they backstabbed, while they porosisi about current affairs. That’s what they did. When they moved their foot, the pipi would emerge, and the hūai, and they would collect it and move forward, it would emerge, they would collect it and move forward.

    Nō reira tēnā tikanga e tika ana nō ngā hapū o Ngāpuhi engari ahu mai nō ngā hapū e noho takutai ana nō ngā wāhi pāpaku e kohia ngā pipi me ngā hūai.

    So that custom, it is correct that it belongs to the tribes of Ngāpuhi but it was derived from the subtribes residing near the ocean, from the shallow areas, from where pipi and hūai are collected.

    Āe. I te wā i ako ahau i te takahi o te pipi he āhua ngāwari te nuku o te waewae, engari i ēnei rā kua tere hoki te nuku o te waewae, nō reira koirā ngā āhuatanga o ngā tau ka tīni, ka tīni, ka tīni engari mōku ake, me ū ki te tīma ki te akoranga tuatahi me ngāwari te tuku o te waewae

    Yes. When I learnt about the pipi swivel, I sort of just did it gently, but nowadays, it’s done very sharply. So that’s what happens as the years pass by, things change constantly, but for me personally, we must follow that first teaching, which is to just let your foot move gently.

    Tēnā, ka w’akaaro ake ki te wā I tū ai Te Matatini ki roto I a w’angarei I te tau 88 ki roto I a Ōkara Park. Ka tū ai tētahi tikanga nō roto hoki o Te Tai Tokerau I te wā o te pōhiri. He aha tērā?

    So, I remember the time Te Matatini stood in Whāngarei in 88 at Ōkara Park, where some tikanga, a tikanga from within Te Tai Tokerau was implemented at the time of the pōhiri. What was that?

    Te kaioma. I roto i ngā tikanga o Ngāpuhi ake, e toru ngā kaitaki ka whakataki i te manuhiri whakaeke ki runga marae, ki runga papa whutupōro, ki runga o Matatini ki Ōkara taua hui rā. Ko te kaitaki tuatahi, tōna mahi ko te haere te titiro kau ko wai ki roto i te ope whakaeke.

    The kaioma. In the true customs of Ngāpuhi, there are three kaitaki who lead the guests who are coming onto the marae, onto the football field, onto Matatini, onto Ōkara, that event. The first kaitaki, his job is to go and scope out who was in that oncoming contingent.

    Me he manukura nō iwi ke atu, me he rangatira, me he toki nō rangi, iwi kē atu, hapū kē atu. Ko tana tino mahi ko te titiro ki te hunga kore mau hū. Mēnā kite e ia tētahi tangata kore mau hū, pupuri taiaha, pupuri mere pounamu aha atu, aha atu. Ko tōna, mā muri i te whakataka i te rau, i te kōpere, i te aha raini ka hoki whakamuri.

    Whether they were leaders from other tribes, or chiefs, or stars from other tribes, other subtribes. His real job is to scope out those with no shoes on. Should he see a person with no shoes on, wielding a taiaha, wielding a mere pounamu or some similar object, then his role is that after he places down the leaf, the bow, whatever it may be, is to retreat.

    I a ia e hoki muri ana, ko te kaiwero tuarua, ko tona mahi tērā, ko te haere ki te karawhiu i te rākau. Whakaatu i tana ihi, tana wehi, tana mana, tana tapu, tana katoa. I a ia whakaatu ana tana ihi ko te kaitaki tuatahi ka kōrero anō ki ngā rangatira o te kāinga “hei he tangata ki waho, kore hū, mau taiaha, kia tūpato koe”. Nā konā ko kohia e te kaitaki tuatoru te tino hautupua o te kāinga, ka mōhio ia, ā, me tūpato au.

    When he returns, the second kaiwero, that is his job, to go out and wield the weapon. Display his force, his dread, his prestige, his sacredness, his all. While he is displaying his force, the first kaitaki will speak with the chiefs of the homelands “hey, there is a person outside, wearing no shoes, wielding a taha, be careful”. From there, the third kaitaki, the real superhero of the homelands, will collect, and he will know, okay, I must tread carefully.

    Nā, ka oti te mahi o te kaitaki tuarua ko ia ka hoki mai. Ko tona tikanga mō te kaitaki tuatoru, ehara tana mahi ko te haere ki te piupiu rakau, tona mahi oma tika atu ki mua ki te aroaro o te manuhiri e tiki ai tana rau, kia whakaritea mō te taki mō te whakataka i te kōpere, i te rau. 

    Then, once the second kaitaki has finished his part, he will return. The purpose of the third kaitaki, is not to go out and fling his weapon around. His job is to run straight out, before the guests who will collect the leaf, and prepare the taki, for the bow, the leaf.

    I te wā e tukuna e ia te rau, ko tona tikanga nei kia hoki muri. Kaua karawhiu rākau, kaua aha, kaua tākaro ki mua. He aha te take o tērā? I roto i ngā tau maha, tini, i te whakaeke a te kuini Ingārangi ki runga o Waitangi, pērā tonu tērā tikanga.

    Once he delivers the leaf, he’s supposed to go back. Don’t toss your weapon around, don’t do any of that, don’t play out the front. What is the purpose of doing so? That’s been the custom over many, many years, including when the Queen of England came onto Waitangi.

    Koia ka watea ia te manuhiri te mau i a ia, mēnā ka mau te manuhiri i te kaitaki, e hoa patua te kaitaki kia mate, whangaingia ki te poaka. Tērā te āhuatanga ina kua mau koe, koe e tō manuhiri, he momo whakaiti e takahi ki runga i tō iwi.

    Thus, the guests are free to capture him, and if the guest manages to seize the kaitaki, mate, kill him, feed him to the pigs. That is what happens if you get caught, caught by your guest, that is considered a trampling on your people.

    Te mea kua kite nei e tāua ki runga Ōkara he mea whakarangatira i te iwi. Ko roto ngā kōrero kua tāpiringia ki tērā ataata, o he whakaiti, no kīhei e taua korokē e whakaitiiti, he whakarangatira e ia e te iwi. He mahi nui tēnā mā mātou. Me whakanui mā roto i te hopu, mā roto i te aru e te kaitaki tuatoru.

    The thing that we saw happen on Ōkara, that was an ennoblement of the tribe. The comments on that video say “oh that is demeaning”. No, that bloke did not demean. He ennobled his tribe. That is important to us. We acknowledge by capturing and by the pursuit of the third kaitaki.

    Nō reira he wero, e kōrero tēnei ki ngā iwi o runga, haere mai, whaia mātou kaitaki tuatoru i te mea ko ia te kaipīkau i te ihi, te wehi me te mana o te kāinga. Tēnei mea te meke i a ia, ka tika me meke, ka tika kia patu e ia kia mate nā runga i te aroha kīhei taua korokē e patu kia mate.

    So, this is a challenge to the tribes above, come to me, follow us, pursue our third kaitaki for he is the bearer of the force, of the dread and the prestige of the homelands. Striking him is only right, yes, strike him, and the taking of his life, however, in sympathy, his life was spared.

    Nō reira tēnā tikanga o te kaioma he mea pērā i te pipi takahi, pērā i te tū o te tāne, he tikanga kua āhua mimiti nā runga anō i te mea kua ngāwari haere wā tātou whakaaro engari wētahi wā tātou ka pupuri tonu ki tērā o ngā ao Māori e noho tikanga ana i tēnei wā engari ko tāku, kia whakawhenua ki roto i tō tātou ao katoa, kia pakari te tū, kia Māori te tū engari kia ora tonu tērā āhua o tātou mātua o tātou tupuna. He mea whakanui i te mutunga o te rā. 

    So that custom of the kaioma is similar to that of the pipi swivel, like the stance of the males, it is a custom that has diminished due to our thinking becoming more relaxed. However, some of us maintain those Māori world customs, personally, it must be embedded into our entire lives. Stand strong, stand Māori, let that aspect of our ancestors remain. For it is an acknowledgement at the end of the day.

    Āe. Nō reira, I a koe, kōrua e w’akarite ana mō Te Matatini, ka aha?

    So, when you, both of you are preparing for Te Matatini, what do you do?

    Ka tika me whakarite i a koe anō. Kua roa mātou e noho, e whakatā ana, mō ngā mahi whakataetae me kii engari kāore e kore ka kite i te hiahia o te tangata me te hiahia mō tērā pakanga nui kei runga i te whatārangi. 

    You must properly prepare yourself. We’ve long been stagnant, relaxing and sleeping in regard to the competition and so you will see everyone’s enthusiasm and eagerness for that big battle that happens on the stage.

    Nō reira mōku ake, me hoki atu ki ō marae kia rongo i te mauri o tō kāinga. Mā roto tērā ka taea ō kaumātua, ka taea ō tangata o te kāinga te whakakaha ake i a koe kia tika tō tū, kia tika tō tohaina i tō reo, i tō wairua ki tō kapa. Kia ako hoki i ētahi āhuatanga o te kāinga nei. He mea nui te noho ki ngā rekereke o ō kaumātua, he akoranga nui kei roto i tēnā mahi. Ko māua tērā pō, ao.

    For me, I’d say return to your marae so that you may feel the force of your home. Through that, your elders, your people back home will be able to strengthen you so that you stand correctly, so that you project your voice correctly, and your spirit to your group. So that you may also learn some aspects of this home. It is integral that you sit at the feet of your elders, there is lots of learning that happens there. That is us both, night and day.

    E noho ana ki ngā rekereke o mātou kaumātua. Ko rātou tērā e whakatinana ana i a māua anō. Mei kore ko rātou, mei kore mātou e tū hei tangata ki te ao.

    We sit at the feet of our elders. They make us who we are. If it weren’t for them, we would not be here.

    Mahara ana au ngā kōrero a Pī a Pā, e rua ō kanohi, e rua ō taringa, kotahi te waha, kopia. He taonga te titiro, he taonga te whakarongo. Ina hiahia te kōrero, tatari, he wā anō wāu, he wā anō wā koutou engari i a koe haere ki te kapa e hiahia nei te whakaatu i tō rātou tuakiritanga, haere koe i runga i te mōhio he pononga koe ki a rātou, kaua haere me ō whakaaro

    I recall the words of Pi and Pā you have two eyes, two ears, one mouth, shut it.   Looking is precious, listening is precious. If you wish to speak, wait, your time will come, all of you, your time will come. But when you join a group who are showcasing their identity, go with the knowledge that you are a servant of theirs, don’t go with your own ideas

    Me manawanui ki te kaupapa

    You must be dedicated to the cause

    Me manawanui ki tō kapa. Kua kitekite māua i tērā āhuatanga. I mua i tā māua tū ki runga ki tētahi kapa, ko māua tērā e pononga nui nei ki tō mātou hapū, ki tō mātou whānau. Ko te hari o tēnā, i te wā ka tū mātou ki runga i te whatārangi a tāne kei konā katoa taku iwi, kei konā katoa taku hapū.

    You must be dedicated to your group. We’ve seen that before. Before we stood with a group, we were servants to our subtribes, to our families. The joy from that is that when we stand on the stage, my tribe is there, my subtribe, they’re all there.

    Nā konā, heke katoa ngā roimata, me whai tautoko i te mea ēnei wānanga tekau, mai te wānanga tuatahi ki te mea mutunga he uaua. Kei reira a hari, kei reira a koa engari kei reira anō a pukuriri, kei reira anō tērā kuia e taniwha nei i a koutou, e kai nei i a koutou.

    From there, the tears fall. You must find a support network because these 10 wānanga, from the first one to the last, are hard. There are happy and joyful times, but there are also times of anger, there is that menace that eats away at you.

    Nō reira mutu kau i tō wānanga me hoki ki tō matua. Me te rerekētanga o te haka iāianei. Kaua tae ngoikore, kaua tae māngere atu ki ngā kapa me haere koe ki te oma, haere koe te whakapakari i a koe anō. Kaua ā-tinana anahenahe, engari ā- hinengaro, ā-wairua.

    So once the wānanga finishes, return to your parents. And also, the difference of haka nowadays. Don’t show up weak, don’t show up slothful to the group. You must go for a run, go and strengthen yourself. Not only physically, but mentally and spiritually.

    Kei reira te whare tapatoru o te ao Māori e nōhia ki te hiranga o te whakaaro. Engari he tahi kōrero ka patere mai i au. Ehara i pato ki tō tātou kōrero mō tō tātou tikanga. E kore e tika kia whakaingoatia te whatārangi he atamira

    There is the triangle of the Māori world that sits at the forefront of my thoughts. But one thing that springs up for me me, I’m not trying to trample on our customs. It’s not correct to refer to the stage as an ‘atamira’

    Tēnā, karawhiua mai

    Please, spill

    Ko te atamira te wāhi i takotohia te mate. Engari oh te atamira, haere mai te atamira. You know, rikarika, riri au, makariri taku tinana te rongo o tērā. Te kōrero o Te Rārawa kaiwhare, i ahu katoa mai i tērā aituā e takato ki runga i te atamira tahi anō kua tahunangia,

    The ‘atamira’ is the place where the deceased is layed. But “Oh the atamira, come to the atamira.” You know, it makes me livid, angry, I get the chills when I hear that. According to Te Rārawa Kaiwhare, that refers to the place upon which the deceased had layed just before they were cremated.

    Nā runga i tā rātou matekai, kīhei rātou i whakaaro ka kaingia e te tangata. Koia i tapaina ko Te Rārawa kaiwhare engari i a te mate takoto tūpāpaku ana, ko ia e takoto i runga i te atamira. Nō reira ko tēnā kupu te atamira, ko te atamira, ko te mate nahe. Hau koe ki roto i tō whare, te wāhi e takoto ai te tūpāpaku, wharo te mate, ko te atamira o te mate.

    And because of their desire, they did not think they would be desecrated. Hence the name Te Rārawa Kaiwhare. But the deceased were laid upon the atamira. So that word, atamira, is strictly for the dead. Enter your house, the place where the tūpāpaku lays, stretched out, that is the stage of the dead.

    He kupu hei whakamāmā ake, ko te whatārangi,

    A lighter word to use is whatārangi.

    Ko te papa hakahaka

    Or papa hakahaka

    Ko te papa hakahaka. Engari he tapu te kupu. Hei āwhina tonu i tō tātou tangata e hiahia kia uru atu ki tō kapa me mātau ki tō tātou reo. Me mātau ki te mita o tō whānau, o tō hapū ake. Nā tō mōhio ki tō tuakiritanga ka mātau koe me pēhea koe te tuku āwhina ki tō kapa, ki tō iwi nā roto i tēnā tuku ka ora tonu te ao haka ki roto te kainga o Te Tai Tokerau

    Papa hakahaka. But words are sacred. In order to help the people wanting to join your group, you must be well equipped with the language. You must know the dialect of your family, of your subtribe. Through your knowledge of your identity, you will know how you can help your group, your tribe and through that, te ao haka lives on within the home of the North.

    Āe. Ehara i te mea me tukuna mā te whatārangi koe e tū Māori ai. Engari me hoki atu ki ō marae kia tū Māori ai koe ki aua wāhi e rua. 

    Yes. And don’t restrict it to only the stage where you can stand as Māori. But return to your marae so you can stand as Māori in both spaces.

    He mea nui tērā ki ahau, ki te tū hei kanohi kitea mō te Māori, te tū hei kanohi kitea mō tō iwi, me noho ngātahi tērā. Me whai wā ki te mahi i ngā mahi e rua.Kia tino kitea i ngā hua o te Māori me te rerekētanga o ērā mahi.

    That’s a big thing for me, having a physical presence for Māori, and having a physical presence for your tribe, those two things must go hand in hand. You must make time to do both. In order to reap the benefits of being Māori and the differences between those things.

    Nō reira, ‘e a’a ngā pūkenga, ngā taonga o te ao ‘aka e taea nei kōrua te kawe I roto I ō mahi?

    So, what are the skills and gifts of Te Ao Haka that you both utilize in your work?

    Rata au ki tēnei kōrero. I a mātou e hakahaka ana, e papaki ana i te uma, e pūkana ana, e waiata, e mōteatea ana i te wīkene he kaihaka anahe mātou, engari, mōhio ana mātou i te Mane ka hoki mātou katoa ki ō mātou tūranga mahi.

    I like this topic. When we’re doing haka, we’re slapping the chest, we’re doing pūkana, we’re singing, we’re chanting on the weekends, we’re just performers. But we’re aware that on Monday we return to our jobs.

    Ko te painga o te ao haka ka taea e koe te piri atu ki tangata kē atu, Nō tūranga mahi kē atu, nō te motu kē atu. Nā konā ko whātoro ake o totoronga mēnā kei te mahi kāinga tāku e mahi nei ka ringi atu au ki taku whaea a Annette Wehi ko ia te māngai mō ngā kāinga ki roto Te Tai Rāwhiti nā reira ka taea te mahitahi nā runga i te hononga ā-haka nei.

    The good thing about haka is that you get to spend time with others, in other roles, from other places. From there, you’ve got more networks, say if you’re working in housing, like I am, I am able to ring my Aunty Annette Wehi who is the representative for the housing in the East Coast, so I am able to work with her because of our haka connection.

    Tērā momo ka taea te tāpiri ki roto i ōku ao. Iāianei he rangatira mō te rūnanga iwi o Ngāpuhi. Nā runga i konā, nā te ao haka kua piri atu au ki e hea kē o ngā kaihaka nō iwi kē, nō motu kē, nō hapū kē. 

    That sort of thing adds value to my life. Now I am a leader for Te Rūnanga Iwi o Ngāpuhi. So, from that, from te ao haka, I’ve met an innumerable number of performers from other tribes, from other islands, from other sub-tribes.

    Nā konā, he hononga tā māua, nā runga i tērā hononga a haka nei, ka taea te kōrero mō ngā pakihi, ka taea te kōrero mō ngā wawata, ngā moemoeā me ngā whakawhanaketanga kei te whanga mai. Nō reira tēnei mea te ao haka e haka whakapakari, ka whai mahi, ka whai mahi koe.

    Because of that, we have a connection, and because of that haka connection, we’re able to talk business, we’re able to talk about the aspirations, the visions and the developments that are in the works. So this thing, te ao haka, strengthens, you get opportunities out of it.

    Ko tōku mātāpono anake ko te reo. Ko ahau tērā he kaiako e whāngaihia i te reo Māori ki a mātou tamariki, mokopuna. 

    My only principle is the language. I am a teacher who feeds te reo Māori into our children and grandchildren.

    Kia rongo i te mauri o te tuakiri Māori. Ahakoa, mehemea e matatau ana koe ki te reo, kaua mutu te ako. Ko ahau tērā e whakawhanake tonu ana i tōku reo, me pērā ka tika. 

    So that the force of the Māori identity is heard. Even though you're proficient in the language, don’t ever stop learning. I’m still developing my reo, it’s essential.

    Nō reira koirā tāku mō taku tūranga mahi he whāngahia i te reo, kia mārama. Kia mārama ki ngā titonga, kia mārama ki te tuhi i te reo Māori, kia mārama ki te kōrero i te reo Māori me te whakarongo anō hoki. Nō reira, ko te reo te mea matua

    So that’s me about my job, I feed the language to others so that it may be understood. So that compositions may be understood, to understand how to write in te reo Māori, to understand how to speak te reo Māori and listen too. So that’s the main thing.

    Ka tika. Ka tika i runga i tērā, kāore e kore ka mātaki mai ēte’i ākonga i ēnei kapong’anga i tautoko ake i ō rātou ma’i i roto i te ao haka oti noa i ō rātou oranga. Nō reira, ko te pātai e w’ai ake nei e hāngai pū ana ki a rātou e kiia nei

    I roto i ngā w’akamatautau o te ao haka e kōrero ake ana mō ēnei mea e kiia nei, 

    Indeed. That’s right, so on that, there’s no doubt that some students will watch these snippets in support of their work for te ao haka and also for their lives. So, the following question pertains to them, as follows

    In the te ao haka examinations there is talk about these things called

    Ngā āhuatanga matua, ngā āhuatanga he a’a eta’I ā’uatanga motu’ake e kore rawa e mōhiotia e ngā tamariki nō Taranaki e pā ana ki ngā mahi I kōnei I Te Tai Tokerau, aua momo tangongitanga ā-iwi.

    Key elements, features. What are some of the distinct features that tamariki from Taranaki are not going to have any idea about that goes on up here in Te Tai Tokerau, those specific Iwi variations.

    Hei tauira, ki a mātou o Taranaki, kāre anō te waewae e hiki, e w’akawawahia ake ai i te papa. Te tikanga I te mea i te wā i hiki ai te waewae i ngaro mātou i te w’enua, i w’akangaro atu ki te Pākehā, nō reira koirā te tikanga kia mau ai te waewae ki te papa engari whakamārama atu ki a rātou iwi variations, he aha ngā rerekētanga o ngā mahi o Te Tai Rāwhiti ki Te Tai Tokerau, o Te Waipounamu ki Te Tai Tokerau aha atu rānei.

    For example, in Taranaki, we don’t lift the foot, we don’t break the floor. The reason for that is because when we lifted our feet, the land was lost, taken by the Pākehā, so that is the reason we keep our feet planted on the ground. But explain to them, tribal variations, what are the differences of the East Coast to the North, of the South to the North, so on and so forth.

    Āe, well kua kōrero kē mō te pipi, takahi o te pipi. Te tū a te tāne, te rerekētanga o te tū a te tāne me te tū a te wahine

    Yes, well I’ve already spoken about the pipi, the pipi swivel. The stand of the male, the differences between the stand of the male from that of the female

    Pēhea tēnei mea te wiri? 

     

    Te wiri. Nō reira, ki a mātou nei ko te kapu, he āhua, me piri ngā matimati, me piri ngā matimati me kapu hoki, koirā ko te wiri o te wahine.

    What about the wiri? 

     

    The wiri. So, for us, it’s cupped hands, it’s sort of, the fingers must stick together, the fingers must stick together and be cupped also, that is the womens’ wiri.

    Ko te tāne he āhua tūwhera ana ngā matimati, āhua nei, tūwhera ana ngā matimati, engari he mea nui te wiri kia rongo i te mauri o ngā mahi me ora tātou ki roto i ēnei mahi. Ko au tērā e whāngaihia i ēnei kōrero ki aku tamariki kia rongo rātou ehara i te mea he mahi noa tēnei te wiri, engari he kaupapa nui kei muri i ngā mahi katoa kei roto i te ao haka.

    The males have sort of open fingers, sort of, open fingers, however, the wiri is important so that we feel the force of what we’re doing, we’re alive in what we’re doing. I feed these discussions to my children so that they can feel it, that this isn’t just some random thing, the wiri. But there’s a bigger story behind everything we do in te ao haka.

    E whakaae ana ahau, e tautoko ana hoki nā te mea ko te wiri tētahi o aua āhuatanga e taea ana te whakawhiti, ka kitea rā i ngā āhuatanga katoa o ngā tikanga Māori me ngā kōrero tuku iho.

    I condone that, I support that as well because the wiri is one of those transferable features that’s featured in all elements of Māori customs and tradition.

    Nā reira ko te wiri te tohu ki te kaimātakitaki kua hono koe ki ngā rangi 12 e tō mai ai koe i tō māramatanga. I runga i te whatārangi, kia whakangungua e koe, ka whakanui hoki i tō tū ki te whatārangi, te whaikōrero, te karanga, te kauhau

    As such the wiri is the indicator to the observer that you’re in tune with the 12 celestial realms that you draw your insightfulness from. On the stage once you’ve trained it, and it also magnifies your performance on the stage, whaikōrero, karanga, speeches

    He tohu hoki o tō hononga ki te whenua me te rangi. Nā reira, ko tētahi āhuatanga o te wiri ko te tōrire o te mahi mai, koirā i kore ai e tino kukua ngā ringaringa o te tāne, engari he torohanga o te tinana. He āhuatanga matua tērā i roto o Te Tai Tokerau. Ko te whakamahinga o te tinana, ko te neke i te tinana, ko te kawe i te tinana ki tua o ngā roherohenga māori e ninipa ai koe nā te mea he āhuatanga hou tēnei ki a koe.

    And it’s an indication of your connectedness to the whenua and to the sky. So, the feature of the wiri is one that you do it in such an elegant way, hence the hands of the male are not as clenched as much of that of a female, but it’s there as an added extension to the body. Which is a fundamental feature within Te Tai Tokerau.

    The utilising of the body, the moving of the body, the pushing beyond the natural boundaries to where you feel awkward because it feels unnatural.

    Engari mā te whakamāori i ēnei ninipatanga e āta whai wheako ai koe, arā, ko te kite atu i ngā ataata, i ngā mauhanga o te onamata. Engari nōu ka titiro ki tā ō kaumātua i mahi ai me te whakahāngai mai ki ēnei rā, kua whakatōkia tērā ki roto o Ngāpuhi nō mai anō, ā, ko te wiri tētahi o aua āhuatanga whakakotahi e tūhono ana i a tātou. Kaua noa iho ki te Ngāpuhitanga engari ki tua o te awe māpara, te hunga i mua noa atu i a tātou.

    But, to naturalify these awkwardness is to live the experience, is to observe through video, through historical accounts, but when you look at what your kaumātua do and how can we apply that to now, it’s been entrenched with us within Ngāpuhi for a long time and the wiri is one of those unified features that connect us not with just what makes us Ngāpuhi but with those beyond the veil that traverse this path, pre us.

    He iwi hakahaka mātou. Kāre e kore i puta mai i ērā āhuatanga i roto i ngā pūtake o te riri i tū ki tēnei rohe me kii. He iwi karaitiana hoki, nō reira kāre e kore ka kite i tērā momo roto i a mātou kapa, engari a mātou konei pai mārika ki te haka. Haka ao pō.

    We’re a tribe that commonly performs haka. There’s no doubt it came from those circumstances, from warfare in this region. We’re also a tribe influenced by Christianity, so there’s no doubt you’ll see that in our teams. But we love haka in this region. Haka, day and night.

    He rawe tērā, kāre he take kia haka ai i te ao i te pō. He taonga tuku iho ka tika me pupuri. Nō reira, kia noho tonu ahau ki ngā āhuatanga.

    That’s awesome, there’s no reason to be doing haka day and night. It’s a treasure that’s been handed down so it’s only right that we hold onto it. So, and I want to also stay with the features.

    Mama noa iho mō mātou e kōrero ake mō te wiri engari, i rawe ō tauira mō te rerekētanga me ngā tangongitanga o te wiri

    It’s really easy for us to talk about the wiri but, actually you gave great examples of the differences and the variations of wiri

    Ko te pūkana hoki tērā. Ko te pūkana, e ai ki ōku kaumātua, e kore pea e ōrite ki te pūkana e ai ki Te Tai Rāwhiti, arā, me te tauaro hoki. Nā reira he aha ngā āhuatanga rerekē o, ka kīia rānei he pūkana i konei, i Ngāpuhi? Arā,ko tēnei te mahi tika ko te putē, ko te w’akana aha atu, aha rānei

     

    Pūkana me te whētero

    Same again goes with pūkana. A pūkana to my kaumātua may not necessarily be a pūkana that’s applicable to those in Te Tai Rāwhiti and likewise, vice versa. So, what are the different elements and features of a, is it even called a pūkana up here in Ngāpu’i? Whereby actually it is a putē, or whākana, etc.

     

    Pūkana and whētero

    Ko te pūkana. Ko a mātou whakaakoranga, titiro ki ngā pou o tō whare. Kei reira te whakaaturanga tika māu, kei konā ko ngā kōrero. I nōhia ko te tauira o te pūkana ki konei i te mea ko ngā kaiwhakairo ko ngā ringa tapu, nā rātou te kaipupuri i te iho, i te rētanga o te mātauranga o Ngāpuhi.

    Pūkana. Our teachings are to look at the pillars of your house. There you will find the right expressions for you, and the stories reside there. It is called a pūkana in this area because the carvers are the sacred hands, they are the holders of the essence, of the depth of the knowledge of Ngāpuhi.

    Nō reira koinā wā mātou haerere ki roto ki taku whare kaumātua ki te pou tuarongo o tō mātou whare ko Rāhiri. Āna kanohi, whero nei, tana arero e pūkanakana ki te taha rewhe o tana mata. Ko tērā, ko tā te kōrero o tō mātou kaiwhakairo e tohu ana ki te iwi, kaua e haere mai ki konei ki te makarauna, kaua haere mai koe ki konei ki te tākaro ki te purei māpere, ki te purei huripapa, konei he take tā mātou.

    So that’s us. Enter my elderly house, at the back wall of our house is Rāhiri. His eyes are red, his tongue is out in a pūkana on the left side of his face. That, according to our carver, shows the tribe not to come here to muck around, don’t come here to play marbles, to play knucklebones, no, there’s a significant matter at hand here.

    Nō reira, koirā te whakaatu o te pūkana. Ko te pukoko[4]  te whakataha ki te arero ki te taha mauī. Ko Tū ki te taha mauī, ko Rongo ki te taha whakatau. Koia anō i meinga atu “ki konei au mō te whawhai”. 

    So, that is the display of pūkana. The reason for the tongue going to the left is because Tū is on the left and Rongo is on the right. So again, that is saying “I’m here to fight”.

    Mēnā ka whakataka tika i te arero he pūkare ki raro, tōtika i te kauae he tōna tikanga he whakaatu atu ki taku whakanui i a koe, ki taku whakanui i te kaupapa, ki taku whakanui ki te manuhiri me te take kei runga i wāku pokowhiwhi. Ka whakataka ki te taha mauī, nā, he kōrero anō tēnā.

    If the tongue comes straight down, straight down the chin, that is supposed to show my acknowledgement of you, my acknowledgement of the event, my acknowledgement of the guests and the matters which rest upon my shoulders. If it extends to the left, well, that’s another thing entirely.

    Āe mō te pūkana o te wahine, mōku ake ko te pūkana, ko te tūwhera mai o ngā kamo, a ngā kanohi engari i ētahi wā ka kite i te kauae e pēnei ana, engari ko te pūkana ko ngā kanohi. Ko tāku noa he kaua e tukuna hei kemokemo engari tūwhera mai kātahi ka puritia. Puritia mō ake tonu atu mēnā ka taea.

    Yes, in terms of the womens’ pūkana, for me personally, the pūkana is the wide opening of the eyes. But sometimes you’ll see the chin doing this. But the pūkana is the eyes. I just say don’t blink when you do it, instead, leave them open and hold it. Hold it forever if you can.

    Engari kia tika hoki te pūkana, kei reira ko ngā rerekētanga o te pūkana, he mea whakamataku, he mea hoki hei whakatenatena, hei whakatoi i te tangata. Nō reira he rerekētanga, koirā ngā rerekētanga o te pūkana

    But you must pūkana correctly. There are differences in pūkana, some to scare, some to encourage, some to tease a person. So there are differences, those are the differences of pūkana.

    Engari te wāhanga ki te pūkana me āta tūpato me pēhea te whakamahi. Waiho rā mā te wairua o tō waiata, o tō haka, o tō mōteatea tō pūkana e puta mai. E kore e tika e whātero ai te arero i roto i ngā mōteatea, i ngā oriori, i ngā pao, i ngā pātere, pea te kaioraora, engari kaua ki roto i ngā oriori.

    However, the part of pūkana that we must be careful with is how to use it. Let the essence of your song, of your haka, of your mōteatea determine your pūkana. It’s not correct to protrude your tongue during mōteatea, or oriori, or pao, or chants, maybe in kaioraora, but not in oriori.

    Ko tā tō pūkana ki roto i te oriori ko te whakaputē i tō karu, kia roa te pupuri, nā te kupu ka mātau koe me pēwhea koe te āhua tuku i te āhuaranga o te kanohi, hei tautoko i tō mahi. Ētahi tangata e pūkana mō te take mō te pūkana anahe. Engari kīhei whai tautoko, kīhei whai taunaki ki roto i te kupu ki roto i te wairua o te waiata.

    Your pūkana in an oriori would be restricted to enlarging your eyes, and hold it for a time, through the words you will know when to release the features of the face to support what you’re doing. Some people do pūkana just for pūkana sake. But there is no support from the words or the nature of the song.

    Kīhei a Ngāpuhi pūkana ki roto i ngā mōteatea, ki ngā oriori. Ko tā te āhua o te oriori ko te noho whakaiti, ko te piko o te māhunga, ko te piko o te tuarā, kia tata atu koe ki te papa hei tukutuku i te roimata engari waiho

    Ngāpuhi doesn’t pūkana in mōteatea or in oriori. The nature of oriori is to remain humble, to bow the head, to hunch the back, so that you may be near the ground in order to release your tears but leave it 

    Mā ngā ringa e whakaatu i tō māramatanga

     

    Your hands will express your understanding. 

    He rawe. Nō reira ko ērāka tūā’uatanga o te ao haka e hāngai ana ki ngā w’akamātautau o ngā ākonga. Ko ētahi atu kōrero e kaurukutia ana e ngā ākonga, anā, ko te pātai e whai ake nei e tautoko ake i tērā.

    Marvellous. So those are the features of te ao haka that are relevant to the students’ examinations. Some other topics that the students will delve into are the following questions.

    I tū ai kōrua ki rōpū kē. Me pēhea te w’akahaere ai tētahi w’anau, me pe’ea ai te w’aka’aratau i roto i te kāinga me ērā[5]  ka tū a’uatanga i runga i te mea nei ko te tuata’itanga tēnei ma’i ki ete’i o ngā ākonga.

    You both stood in a different team. How do you manage a family, how do you practice in the home and those sorts of things because this is a first for some of the students.

    Heoi anō rā, ko ete’i anō rā waia rawa atu i roto i te ao haka engari kāre anō ete’i e kaurukutia i roto i tērā wheako kia tū ki rōpū kē. Nō reira ehara te pātai nei, he aha ai, ko tāku me pēhea te whakahaere ake i tērā me tō kōrua whānau.

    However, some others are fully accustomed to te ao haka, but there’s that few who have not yet delved into that experience of standing in another group. So, this question is not about why, but it’s about how you manage that with your family.

    Tō mātou waimarie, i te wā i whakaae māua kia hūnuku ki rōpū kē atu, ki kapa kē atu. I noho mātou kei raro i te maru o Te Waka Huia, nō reira, ahakoa Manu Huia mai, Waka Huia mai i wānanga tahi mātou i te wā kotahi. 

    We’re very lucky, when we agreed to move to another team, we were under the shelter of Te Waka Huia, so whether we were Manu Huia or Waka Huia, we all had wānanga together.

    Nō reira, kāre e tino uaua engari ko te mea uaua he mahue i ngā tamariki ki te kāinga,me te taraiwa tawhiti ki Tāmaki. Kia tutuki i tērā o ngā hiahia, nō reira āe, kei reira ko ngā pōrarurarutanga ētahi uauatanga ētahi wā, ka āhua tukituki māua ki a māua anō. 

    So, it wasn’t very difficult, but the hard thing was leaving the kids behind at home and driving a long distance to Auckland, in order to fulfill that desire, so yes, there are some dynamics, some difficulties sometimes, we kind of clash with each other.

    He rerekē hoki te rongo i tērā mea kei konei koe, kei konei ahau. He rerekē. Kāore tino rongo i te hononga kei waenganui i a māua tahi.

    It’s different too to feel that you’re here and I’m here. They’re different. You don’t really feel the connection between us.

    He taonga te whakarongo, he taonga te titiro, he taonga te kōrero. Ko te mātāpono matua e pā ana ki tērā takahanga a māua ko te kōrero. Nā roto i te kōrero ka hua mai ko ngā raruraru, ko ngā painga, ko ngā whakaritenga, ko ngā whakawākanga, ko ngā whakataunga i tau ai ki a māua ngākau.

    Listening is precious, observing is precious, communication is precious. The main principle in that journey of ours was communication. Through communication, the problems were raised, the good things, the arrangements, the decisions, the settlements that our hearts felt.

    Nā konā au i meinga atu, he taonga te aroha ki ō whānau nā runga i te mea ko rātou ngā kaipoipoi, kaitiaki o tamariki. Me tiaki te wā, me tiaki te wā i te mea i a koe taraiwa ana ki hea raini mō te whakaharatau i te haka ko ō pihi whānau ko mahue ki muri kīhei i kite.

    So that is why I said, it is precious to love your family because they are the ones who cherish and look after your children. You must cherish the time, be appreciative because when you’re driving to wherever for haka practice, it is your family who is left behind and you don’t see them.

    Nō reira mēnā kei roto a māua i te wā o te whānau, ko te wā o te whānau anahe tērā. Ko te wā i nōhia māua ko māua anahe, nā māua tērā wā. Engari he uauatanga nā runga anō i te kore kōrero. Nā konā hau hoki atu ki te mātāpono tuatahi, me kōrero.

    So if we’re in family time, that is strictly family time. If we are sitting alone, just the pair of us, that is strictly our time. But it becomes difficult if you do not communicate. Hence, I return to my first principle, communication.

    Hoi tata mai ki ēnei wā ka kite te whakawhanake i te tama ngā tamariki ka wā ka kōrero āno māua koi whakaae koe haere māku ngā tamariki e tiaki nā te mea kua kaumātua haere ināianei. Engari ko tāku, ka taea, ka taea. Kei reira tonu ko ngā wheako, kei reira tonu ko ngā wero. Hatia ngā piki, hatia ngā heke.

    But recently, as the children develop, we will talk between us, “you go, I’ll look after the kids” because they’re getting older. But I say, it is possible, it’s possible. There is still that experience, there is still challenges. Go through the ups and the downs.

    E tekau mā toru tau māua noho mārena ana, e hoa ka papaki katoa ngā hau o Tāwhiri. I runga i wēna papakinga ko tūtahanga tonu, ka kōkiri whakamua tonu. Ka pīkau i ngā mātāpono me ngā uara o tēnei mea te ao haka. Kua whanake o mātou ake. Nō reira he mea nui te kōrero.

    We’ve been married for thirteen years, mate, all the winds of Tāwhiri have blown. Despite that, we still stand strong, and we still move forward. We carry the principles and the values of te ao haka. We have developed ourselves. So, communication is a big thing.

    And ehara i te mea e pērā te hiahia kia haere mō māua anake, mō mōku ake, engari i pērā ana te mea ko te hiahia, ko te aronga nui kia hoki mai ki te kāinga me te whāngaihia i ērā wheako ki ā mātou uri o konei, o Ngāpuhi-nui-tonu.

    And it’s not as though we wanted to go just for our own sake, for me it was about the desire and the focus to return home and feed those experiences to our descendants here, of Ngāpuhi-nui-tonu.

    Kia whakakīngia i taua kete mātauranga otirā ā tōna wā ka hoki mai ki te kāinga me te whāngaihia i ēnei hua ki a mātou tangata o konei. Engari whakaaro ana au ki taua whakataukī “ki te wātea te hinengaro me te kaha rere o te wairua ka taea 

    To fill that knowledge basket and eventually come back home and feed our people with the benefits we have reaped. But I’m thinking of that proverb, “When the mind is free and the spirit is willing, anything.

    Ngā mea katoa.

    .. is possible.”

    Ka tika. Tāku e ‘ia’ia nei kia ū tonu ki tērā w’akautu e hora nei e kōrua me ō kōrua tamariki. ‘E a’a ō kōrua moemoeā mō ō kōrua tamariki i roto ngā uaranga o tātou te Māori?

    Precisely. My hope is that that proverb remains with you both and your children. What are your dreams for your children in terms of the values of Māori people?

    He pātai mīriona tāra tērā. Ā-mātua nei, mōhio ana au he aha kē ngā mahi o taku tamaiti. Taku kōtiro ko ia taku rangatira so pēhea au. Ko tāku ki ōku ake, kia kaha ki te kōrero ki te tiaki i tō tātou reo. Koirā te ariki mō ngā āhuatanga Māori katoa. Ki te kore te reo ka kore te ao haka.

    That is the million-dollar question. As parents, I already know what my children are doing. My daughter is my boss so how can I. What I impart onto mine is to protect our language. That is the superior of all things Māori. If there is no reo then there is no ao haka.

    Ki te kore te ao haka kua mahue te taha whakaari, te whare makatea o te ao te arohanui tonu. Nō reira kia kaha tātou ki te kōrero i tō tātou reo, tiaki tō tātou reo. Kaua reo ā-Aotearoa nei engari te reo o tō kāinga ake. Te mita o tō whānau, te mita o tō hapū kei reira rā taku ngākau e noho kōhatu ana i tēnei wā ka tahi.

    Without te ao haka, there is no theatre, the house of tohunga, of love. So let us ensure we speak our language, protect our language. Not our standardised language but the unique language of your home. The dialect of your family, the dialect of your sub-tribe, that’s where my heart is set in stone at this time, first and foremost.

    Ka rua, kia te tū rangatira rāua hei kanohi kitea, he mata kitea, he mata tini mō te ao Māori i roto i tō rātou ake ao. Nōku tēnei wā, nōku tēnei wā. Engari nōu te āpōpō.

    Secondly, a chief is someone with a physical presence, a commonly seen face, a complex face for te ao Māori in their own world. It is mine for now, this time is mine at the moment. But it will be yours tomorrow.

    Āe. Kaua i te reo Māori anake engari ko te reo Pākehā hoki. Me noho ngātahi. E pērā ana tō tātou ao, nō reira, me pakari ki roto i ngā taha e rua.

    Yes. Not only the Māori language but the English language too. They must go hand in hand. That is how our world works, so you must be ambidextrous.

    Ehara i te mea me whaiwhai haere i a māmā me pāpā engari, kei te kite rātou i ngā painga o ngā mahi kei te para i a māua. Nō reira, me pakari ki te reo. And ko mātou tērā e kōrero Māori ana i te kāinga. Reo Māori anake. Me pakari hoki ki te ao o te haka.

    It’s not that they must follow mum and dad around but they’re seeing the benefits of the path that we’re clearing for them. So, their language must be strong. And we speak Māori in the home. Only the Māori language. They must also be strong in te ao o te haka.

    Ko taku tamaiti tēnei tau ko tōna tau tuatahi ki te kura tuarua. Kua hono ia ki te rōpū kapa haka o Pēwhairangi. Me taku tino noho hūmārie. Nānā kē ērā whakaaro. Kāhore ahau i pei ai i a ia kia mahi tēnā mahi, engari nā runga i te hiahia o te ngākau kei te mahi ia ngā mahi. He mea nui tērā ki ahau.

    My child, this is their first year in secondary school. They have joined the kapa haka of Pēwhairangi. And I am truly humbled. They thought of that on their own. I did not push them to do that, but because that is what their heart wanted to do, that is what they are doing. That is huge to me.

    Kua kaingia e ia i ngā taonga i mahue mātou mai ngā kaupapa haka. Hoki atu ki te kāinga ho he hāte hou, ho he poka hou, ho he keke, ho he kina. Nā konā ka mōhio ia ka whai hua ina ka uru au ki tēnei ao haka. Nō reira he hari tēnā tā ngā mātua ki te kite o tamariki ake kia uru atu ki roto i runga i o rātou hiahia,

    They are reaping the beneits that come from haka events. Return home, oh there is a new shirt, oh there’s a new jersey, oh there’s cake, there’s kina. So, from that they realised there are benefits that come if I join this haka world. So that makes the parents happy to see their own children join by their own free will,

    Nā konā mātou kua tō te kākano. Waiho mā tētahi atu te ringiringi wai ki runga. Kia puāwai te tupu, kia tupu tōna purapura, kia puawai tētahi roiho i tōna wā.

    So, we’ve planted the seed. Leave it for someone else to sprinkle water over them. So that they may blossom, so that their seed may grow, and eventually blossom into a rose.

    Ka tika. Me te ātaa’ua ‘oki o ērā kōrero, tā te mea nei, he tauhou tēnei ki ngā mahi o te mātua. He pēpi noa iho tāku. Heoi anō rā e kite au tērā āhuatanga o te mātua i a rātou e kite ana i ō rātou tamariki, e puāwai ai i roto i tō rātou ake ao.

    Absolutely. What a beautiful statement because I am a newbie to parenthood. I’ve got a baby. But I do see that element of parenthood, seeing our children blossom in their own lives.

    Nō reira, ko tāku nei ki a kōrua e mihi atu ana. Anō nei he hiahia he tonotono anō hoki ki a kōrua, tēnā waiho mai ēte’i kupu akiaki, kaua ki ngā ākonga noa iho engari ki ō tamariki, i roto i tēnei ao ‘uri’uri. E tino rerekē ana ki te ao e tupu ai tātou.

    So, I’d like to acknowledge you both. I’d also like to request something from you both. Please leave some words of encouragement, not only to the students but to your children, in this everchanging world. It’s an entirely different world from the one we grew up in.

    Tēnā he a’a ngā kupu kōrero whakamutunga ki ō tamariki ki ēnei tamariki hei arahina ake i a rātou i roto i tēnei ao ‘uri’uri nei

    So, what are your final words to your children, to these children, to guide them in this everchanging world

    Kōrero akiaki. Well kua hora katoa ōku whakaaro. Kei a koe te tikanga mehemea hiahia ana te kapohia. Engari mōku ake, he aro nui tēnei ki ngā, ki a koutou ngā kaihaka o te kāinga nei, mau pūmau ki tō momo o Ngāpuhi-nui-tonu. Kaua kōtiti. Me mau pūmau nā te mea ko koe tērā kei te para i te huarahi mō ngā uri whakatupu, 

    Words of encouragement. Well, I’ve already laid out all of my opinions. It’s up to you whether you want to take them on board. But for me, I am mainly focusing on you performers from here, holdfast to the style of Ngāpuhi-nui-tonu. Don’t deviate. Hold firm because it will be up to you to clear the pathway for the future generations,

    Nō reira, koirā tētahi o āku kupu akiaki rawa atu me te kaua e mutu te ako. Ahakoa ako ki te tunu kai, ako ki te reo Māori, ako ki te reo Ingarihi, ako ki ngā mahi kapa haka. Kaua mutu te ako. Mā roto i tērā āhuatanga ka taea e koe te whakawhanake ki te tū pakari ki roto i ngā mahi katoa.

    So, that would be one of my biggest words of encouragement, don’t ever stop learning. Whether that’s learning to cook, learning te reo Māori, learning the English language, learning how to do kapa haka. Don’t ever stop learning. Through that, you will be able to develop and stand staunch in whatever it is that you do.

    Kaua i te ao haka anake engari ki te manaaki tāngata, ki te tū hei kanohi mō tō marae. Aua mahi katoa he ātaahua te kite.

    Not only in te ao haka but to care for people, to be a seen face on your marae. All those things are beautiful to witness.

    He tirohanga ratonga tēnei. Titiro ahau ki oranga tamariki me te mōhio, whitu tekau paihēneti o ngā tamariki kua herea ki tērā nanakia, he Māori. He Māori kua ngaro i tō rātou tuakiritanga. Kāhore he hononga ki ō rātou marae, ki ō rātou iwi, ki ō rātou aha. Ka whakaarongia rātou he Pākehā kē rātou.

    I’m now looking at these services. I’m looking at Oranga Tamariki and I know that 70% of children tied to that villainous institution are Māori. They are Māori who have lost their identity. There is no connection to their marae, to their tribes, to anything. They think they’re Pākehā.

    Nā konā au tangi taku ngākau. Kōrero whakamutunga me tētahi waiata ā muri i tēnā. He whakakitenga nā tōku tupuna Aperahama Te Taonui i mua i tana matenga, tahi rau tekau mā waru tana matenga. Ko ia te pōtiki o te kaimoko i te Tiriti o Waitangi i te 1840.

    And my heart weeps. There are my final words and a song will follow. This was a revelation by my ancestor, Aperehama Te Taonui before he died, he died in 1018. He was the youngest signatory of Te Tiriti o Waitangi in 1840.

    Nō reira, tēnei whakakitenga nōhia ki runga i tēnei whenua, e hīa kē te tau. Ko tāna “ ā tōna wā ka tae mai tētahi taniwha ki roto i tō whare. Kīhei koe e mōhio, kīhei koe e rongo, kīhei koe e kite i tēnei taniwha, engari ka titiro koe ki te kanohi a ō uri ka kite koe ko tae mai te taniwha.

    So, this revelation has been on these lands for many, many years. He said “There will come a time where a monster will enter your house. You won’t know, you won’t hear it, you won’t see this monster, but when you look at the faces of your descendants, then you will see the monster has arrived.

    Kaua e patu i a ia engari ūhia ki runga i a ia te korowai o te aroha.” Mātāpono matua, mātāpono ariki. Aroha tētahi ki tētahi. Aroha i ō tātou mokopuna kei reira te āpōpōtanga mā tātou. Hoi, he waiata whakakapi hei taunaki ake, whakangāwari ake i tērā whakakitenga.

    Don’t smack them, but rather, let them be covered with the cloak of love.” The main principle, the paramount principle. Love one another. Love our grandchildren, for they are our future. However, a closing song in support, to ease that vision.

    [Singing]

    He taonga taku ngākau ko taku mokopuna e

    He mokopuna korikori

    Hei aha, hei aha rā

    Ko te mea nui ko te aroha
    Kaua e patu i aku mokopuna

    Me awhiawhi mai taku mokopuna korikori e

    Me awhiawhi mai taku mokopuna korikori e

    [E waiata ana]

    He taonga taku ngākau ko taku mokopuna e

    He mokopuna korikori

    Hei aha, hei aha rā

    Ko te mea nui ko te aroha
    Kaua e patu i aku mokopuna

    Me awhiawhi mai taku mokopuna korikori e

    Me awhiawhi mai taku mokopuna korikori e

    Ngāpuhi, Te Rārawa, Ngāti Ka’u koutou kei Te Aupōuri ngā kano’i ora ngā ‘apū ngā waka ngā aue Ngāti W’ātua e rau rangatira ngā mōtoi kura, ngā koko tangiwai, ngā kuru pounamu tēnā rawa atu kōrua. Tēnei te au ō mihi.

    Ngāpuhi, Te Rārawa, Ngāti Kahu, Te Aupōuri, the living faces, the subtribes, the canoes, the winds of Ngāti Whātua, my esteemed chiefs, the ornaments made of greenstone, the greenstone ear pendants, the ornaments of greenstone, thank you both.

    Together Isaiah and Muritere stand and perform a haka from their rohe. Showing Ihi, wehi and wana Isaiah and Muritere add free flowing actions depicting the meaning of their words. 

    Interview closes and fades to black. The first shot is of the ocean at sunset, cutting to the road sign for Cape Reinga and Whāngarei. Back to the Whare Rūnanga at Waitangi Treaty grounds. Back to the welcome sign for Kaitaia, back to the beach and then over to a bird's eye view of the town centre. Back to a mural and then again with the shot of the sand and waves crashing. Road signs to Ahipara and a shot of a beautifully carved walkway entrance. A shot of whānau standing in the Ngāpuhi doorway chanting “Tīhei Mauri Ora.” Back to Waitangi Treaty Grounds, then the monument of the boy and dolphin. Another bird's eye view of the north, finishing with the logo that reads and of Te Tāhuhu o te Mātauranga.

    [ Accordion ]

    Music in the background continues through the whole introduction with opening scene of the beach side with rakau. Camera shot of marae and changes to drive past ocean as visual changes to a bay with a log on the beach and water and trees in background. Camera then pans ground level across the beach showing seaweed and then shows coastal shore with rocks and water in the background. Wave crashes around rock and shows close-up on water breaking close to rocks. Camera view of a sign saying “Nau mai, haere mai, you are entering the tribal lands of Te Whanau a Apanui. Next taking a drive into the rohe surrounded by ngahere. Camera then pans with a jetty and ocean and a small community in the background surrounded by hills. Quick visuals of Waihau Bay Lodge and changing visual to a park where the swings are moving with other obstacles in background. Camera pans across the water and down the jetty where the words Te Whānau-a-Apanui appear and screen goes black with Te Whanau a Apanui still showing before the words Te Ao Haka appear.

    Te Reo Māori

    English

    Kei te rangatira kei te Pāpā e Rikirangi tēnā rā koe i tēnēi rā. Kua tae mai ki te tautoko i te puna pāoho mō tēnēi kaupapa Te Ao Haka. Ki ngā Wharekura, ki ngā Kura Tuarua. Nau mai haere mai ki tēnēi kaupapa. Tuatahi ake, ko wai koe, nō hea koe?

    My esteemed leader and relative, Rikirangi, thank you for coming today. You’ve come to support our podcast today for te ao haka that is being taught in Māori immersion high schools, and mainstream high schools. Welcome. First, who are you and where are you from?

    Ko Rikirangi Gage toku ingoa. Taha tōku koka nō Te Whanau muri, Ngati Uepōhatu, Ngāti Porou. Taha toku Pāpā nō konei nō Te -Whānau-ā-Apanui, Te Whakatōhea me Ngāti Maniapoto.

    My name is Rikirangi Gage. On my mother’s side I am from Te Whānau-a-Muri, Ngāti Ue and Ngāti Porou. On my father’s side I’m from here, from Te Whānau-a-Apanui, Te Whakatōhea and Ngāti Maniapoto.

    Tēnā koe me ngā kāwai whakapapa kua whakataki mai nei. 

    Thank you and your genealogy that you have introduced today.

    Tuatahi rā, Uncle, ō mahara tuatahi mō te kapa haka, he aha erā?

    Firstly Uncle, your earliest memories of kapa haka, what was that?

    Me kī, ehara i te kapa haka whakataetae nei, engari ko te noho, ko te tipu ki tētahi wāhi pēnei i a Ruatōria, me te haere hoki ki Maungahaumi, i ētahi wā ki Hiruhārama, ka tūtakitaki koe ki tērā mahi nā te mea i te puāwai mai i konā i raro i te momo pēnei i a Sani mā, i roto hoki i ngā huihuinga.

    I suppose not kapa haka in a competition sense, but living up and living in a place, being brought up in a place like Ruatōria, going out to Maungahānea and sometimes going out to Hiruhārama, you're going to collide with that activity because it was flourishing there with the likes of Sanini and in gatherings.

    Ko ngā waiata hei kīnaki ērā i te taha ngahau me te taha whanaungatanga. He waiata mō ngā mahi katoa. Nō reira, ngā wā i haere ai mātou ki reira, he wāhanga tērā o te horopaki. Kāore mātou i pātai i te take i reira, engari i reira, ā, he tāera motuhake, he momo kawe tō ngā waiata. He pēnei i tō reo taketake. Koinā ngā oro taketake e rongo ai ngā roro, ā, ka mahara rā koia i ngā wā katoa.

    The songs, it was an accompaniment of the festive and social life. Waiata mō nga mahi katoa. So whenever we went to there, it was part of the context. Didn't question why it was there or how it was there, but it was there and it had its unique style and unique way of singing. It's like your mother tongue. That becomes the mother sounds that your brain hears and treats as normal.

    Nō reira, 11 tau pea tō pakeke ka haere koe i tō haerenga tuatahi? I Ngāti Porou kē rānei koe?

    So, you were around 11 years old when you experienced your first haerenga or were back in Ngāti Porou?

    Āe, āe. There was ah, both Sanini ō reira kei te mōhio ahau ki a ia. He mahi tāna mā Te Kotahitanga me Te Whānau-a-Rua tahi ki a Hōri Ngāwai me Tuini. Kāore i te mōhio nā wai i whakarite, engari ko ngā rōpū e rua ko Te Hokowhitu-a-Tū me Hikurangi i haere ngātahi ai ki Te Waipounamu, ā, ka haere ki te whakatū konohete i Te Ika-a-Māui ka heke, hurihuri rauna i Te Waipounamu. Nō reira me kī, i rumakina ahau ki tērā mō ētahi wiki.

    Ae, Ae. There was ah, both Sanini. So, I know her. She had a job to do as far as the Kotahitanga Movement was concerned and of course, Te Whānau-a-Rua with Hori Ngawai and Tuini. I don't know who organized it, but the two groups that is Te Hokowhitu-a-tu and Hikurangi went down the South Island together. And had all these concerts in North Island and went down, hurihuri rauna the South Island. So you can say, I was immersed in that for a few weeks.

    Wī! Nō reira,

    Wow, so,

    Nō reira koirā te konohete tuatahi, e noho ana ki te marea, mātakitaki ai, whakarongo ai ki ngā waiata.

    So that was our first concert sitting in the crowd watching the concert and hearing the songs.

    Kei te mahara koe ki ngā momo waiata i waiatahia e rātou i aua wā?

    Do you remember the types of songs they were singing back then?

    Heoi ano, ko ngā mea i waia ai mātou ki te whakarongo atu nō mātou e tamariki ana, engari ko tētahi wāhanga o te konohete, ka. Kua wareware i ahau te ingoa o te. Ko ngā kōtiro ka. Tētahi ka waiata, ā, taku mōhio i te kōrerohia i mua rā, ko tētahi ko “I Love Paris in the Springtime”. 

    Well, there were the normal ones that we were exposed to as a child but part of the concert they would. I forget the name of the, the girls would. One would sing a song and think I was mentioning earlier, one was I Love Paris In The Springtime. 

    Ka pēhea a I Love Paris?

    How does I Love Paris Go?

    Sings…..“I love Paris in the morning, I love Paris in the mo.. I love Paris in the, when it glistens. I love Paris in December”

    Sings… I love Paris in the morning, I love Paris in the mo.. I love Paris in the, when it glistens. I love Paris i December

    Nō reira koirā te wāhi i -

    And so that's where the-

    Āe, ā, ko koe ka… Koirā te hiahia mō te waiata, ā, me kimi e koe he taurapa, he tauihu me ētahi rauawa mō ngā wāhanga kōrihi (waiata). He hononga pai mō te waiata. 

    Yeah and so you... That's the view for the song, then you got to find a taurapa and tauihu and some rauawa for the chorus parts (singing). It's a good hono for the sound.

    Rawe. Ātaahua. Nō reira, i tō tipuranga ki roto o Ngāti Porou, i haka rānei tō māmā, tō pāpā, a Nannie D rānei?

    Wow. Beautiful. So, growing up around Ngāti Porou, did Mum and dad do any type of haka or Nannie D?

    Kāo, i waiata taku māmā i ngā waiata e pā ana ki Te Kotahitanga. Heoi ano, e ai ki a ia i titoa ētahi o ngā waiata, e ai ki a ia, i Te Whānau-a-Apanui, te wāhi i whānau ai ahau. “Put Your Sweet Lips”. Ā, he mea anō i titoa e Tuini mā Te Kotahitanga. “Haere mai tātou e…”

    No, my mother would sing songs and songs related to the Kotahitanga Movement. Well, a couple of the songs were actually composed, so according to her, over here in Te-Whānau-ā-Apanui where I was born. Put Your Sweet Lips. And there's another one Tuini composed for the Kotahitanga. Singing…. Haeremai tātou e..

    Āwaia!

    Wow.

    Te Kotahitanga rā e. Āe.

    Singing…Te Kotahitanga rā e. Yeah.

    I waimarie koe ki te tūtaki ki a Tuini Ngawai?

    So, you were lucky enough to grow up and see Tuini Ngawai?

    19 pea taku pakeke. I reira ahau i tana tangihanga. Ka piki rākau e kite ai ahau.

    I might have been 19. And I was at her tangi. Climbed up the tree to have a look over and see.

    Nō reira, ko tō kokenga i te kura, i haka rānei koe i mua mai i te kura tuatahi, kura waenga rānei?

    So, and then going through kura did you do any kapa haka earlier on in Kura Tuatahi, Kura Waenga?

    Kāo, hāunga i te wā i whakaakona ai mātou e tētahi kōkā ōku, ko Queenie, Queenie Tāwhai. (Chanting)

    Nāku i āpiti ki te waiata nō muri mai.

    No, except for what we were taught at Manutai by an auntie of mine, Queenie, Queenie Tawhai. (Chanting) 

    I added that into a song later on.

    I tō titonga?

    When you composed.

    Āe. Ko te auahatanga tērā. Arā, a (ka waiata) he waiata…tūturu tērā.

    Oh yeah. Oh, I mean that's a bit of poetic license. Even (singing), that's a real jeru song.

    (Ka waiata) Āe, he pai tēnā nā.

    (Sings)Yep, that's a cool one.

    Āe. Nō reira, (ka waiata) taku mōhio kāore rātou e kaha riri mai. 

    Yeah, so. (Sings) Yeah. I don't think they'll growl me too much.

    Ka pai. Nō reira, ka wehe koe i te kura tuatahi me te kura waenga ka haere koe ki te wharekura, nē? Ki te kura o Tīpene?

    Cool. So, leaving Kura tuatahi and Kura Waenga you went through Wharekura aye, to Te Kura o Tipene?

    Heoi anō, i hou te rongo o te kura rā mō te haka me te whutupōro, ērā momo āhuatanga. Engari, i reira ahau, ā, i a koe ka tipu, kei te āhua pērā koe. Kia whakaaro ake ki te waharoa ‘he karu puritia ko ngā kaupapa kia mau ngā tamariki’ hei mātakitaki. Nō reira ka pākīkī haere koe. Nō reira, i tētahi rā ka waea atu taku māmā ki a Ngoi, ā, te mutunga iho ka noho atu mō tētahi wīkene o te rā whānau o te Kuīni, e toru rā. Ā, ka tōia mai ko ōna tuākana, tēina nō tua o te rori, ko Nunu, kātahi ko Tuku Parata, āe, me Ngoi, nāna i pupuri mai i ēnei wāhine mō te toru rā e waiata ana.

    Well, the school itself had a lot of prestige around haka and rugby and all that sort of stuff. But I was there and so as you're growing, you are sort of, [1] think about te waharoa, he karu puritia ko ngā kaupapa kia mau ngā tamariki to watch, so, you get inquisitive. So, one day my mother rings up to Ngoi and basically, I end up a Queen's birthday weekend, three days. And she had pulled in her sister across the road, Nunu and then Tuku Parata , yeah and Ngoi, and she had these poor women sing continuous for three days.

    Wī.

    Whoa.

    Ka kī ahau, “Ānana, ka ako ahau i ngā waiata ngahau katoa.” Kāo, i te ako (waiata) kē ahau i Te Kotahitanga. Engari e toru rā, ka waiata rātou i ērā waiata katoa nā Tuini i tito, i hono rā ki tāna kaupapa ki Te Pūtahitanga me ētahi atu o āna waiata hoki. Ko tētahi mea nui, i kōrero rā rātou mō ngā wāhine rangatahi e haere tahi ana ki ō rātou kaumātua ki tētahi Aotearoa maunahea ki te waiata e pā ana ki Te Tiriti me te āhua o ō rātou oranga. Ka homai e rātou he pukapuka kī ana i ngā waiata a Tuini, ā, ka kī mai a Ngoi, “Tāhau e pīrangi ai, haramai ki te tiki.”

    I said, "Oh man, I'm going to learn all the party songs." No, I was learning (singing)Te Kotahitanga. But three days they basically sang all those songs that Tuini had composed, linked to her Kotahitanga Movement and some of the other songs as well. But more importantly, they spoke about their young woman going with their kaumātua's to a very reluctant New Zealand wide audience singing about things like The Treaty and their treatment. They gave me a book and it had all Tuini songs in and Ngoi said to me, "Whatever you want, you can come and take it."

    Wī!

    Wow.

    Nō reira, e toru pō ka noho atu ahau, ā, koinā tāku wānanga.

    So I spent three nights and that became basically my wānanga.

    Nō reira, ka wānanga tahi koe ki a Nanny Ngoi i tērā wā, i pēhea tōna āhua?

    So, in having wānanga with Nanny Ngoi back then, what was she really like?

    Heoi anō, he Ringatū hoki, nō reira he mata o ngā waiata a Tuini i hua mai i tērā wheako. I tata rātou ki tōku pāpā, ā, i te whakaū tonu i tērā whanaungatanga. Ka kī mai a ia ki ahau, “I tuku mākohakoha ki a mātou, ka tuku mākohakoha atu ki a koe.” Ā, ko ahau i reira e tīwaha ana “iiiieeeehaaaa.”

    Well, they were Ringatū, so there was a dimension to Tuini's songs that come out of that experience. They had a relationship with my father and they were basically continuing that, really. She said to me, "He gave freely to us and we give freely to you." And I was going "Yeehaw."

    Ā, he wā hoki ōna mehemea i whiua atu e koe ngā pātai maha mō āna titonga me ērā i tukuna e tōna kuia ki a ia?

    And were there times where you asked her lots of questions about her compositions and the compositions she got from her nan?

    Ko te tikanga o mua ka noho koe, ka whakarongo, āe. Mehemea ka eke koe ki te taumata, ka mahara koe. Engari, kotahi anake te ahunga o te kōrero nā te mea inā te pakeke i ahau.

    The old way is you sit down and listen and yeah. If you are good enough, you'll remember. But I mean they, I think it was a more one way because they're miles older than me.

    Yeah, so he taonga te whakarongo me te maumahara.

    Yeah, so listening and remembering are important.

    Āe. Nō reira, i a koe i Tīpene, i tīmata rā koe ki te tito i ō titonga tuatahi i taua wā, e whakamahi ana i ngā kupu whakarite me ngā waiata?

    Aye. So going through Tipene, you started your first compositions around that time using metaphors and waiata?

    Ko te mea kē, hika, i ngā rekereke ahau o tētahi o ngā tino, ki ahau nei ko te tino kaitito, ā, koinā te tūāpapa o aku titonga. Nō reira, he hinengaro tamariki tōku, ā, e whakatewhatewha ana ahau i tēnei. E ngana ana ahau ki te wetewete. Ka pēhea tā te rehe tuitui i ngā whakaaro, ā, ka whakamahi ai i te oro hei waka, tae atu rā ki ngā nekenekehanga, he whakamīharotanga. He whakamīharotanga e waiatahia ana, ki ōku nei whakaaro. I te whare wānanga kē ahau i mua i taku taenga ki te whare wānanga, ā, mehemea kei te mārama koe ki ērā waiata, he wānanga tonu kei roto. Inā taku māngari nui.

    The thing was, well, I had access to one of the greatest, I consider the greatest composer that's basically my model for composition. So I'm got a young mind and I'm interrogating this. I'm trying to pull it apart. How is a genius of the mind that can stitch whakaaro together and then use sound as a waka and then movement, poetry in motion. Sung poetry in motion, I think. I actually was already at university before I got to university and if you understand those songs, it's a wānanga in itself. I was very, very fortunate.

    Āe. He nui rānei ngā kupu whakarite i whakamahia ai e rātou ki ā rātou waiata?

    Yeah. Do you think that they used a lot of metaphors back then when they wrote their songs?

    Āe rā. Ka mahara ahau i kī rā ahau ki tōku māma, “Ō, ēnei kupu, kua wehe ngā paraikete kei te makariri te whetū marama.” Āe, he kupu whakarite. Ana, mō te tārai kupu hoki, ko Tuini te taumata. Mōku, he kete mātauranga i rukuhia e koe. Nō reira, i waimarie ahau nā te mea ka waiatahia ana e rātou ngā waiata, pai tonu taku…nā te mea i a rātou ka waiata, i te tuhi ahau, “Ō, ka puritia te…”. I tino aro i ahau te wāhi ki ngā oropuare. 

    Oh yeah. I remember saying to my mother, "Oh, these words, kua wehe ngā paraikete kei te makariri te whetū mārama." Yeah, metaphor. I mean, the thing of the poet is, Tuini is the consummate poet. So for me, there was a kete of knowledge that you could delve into. So I was lucky because when they had sung the songs, I was pretty good at remembering the... because as they were singing, I was writing, "Oh, they hold it on their..." I always picked up their treatment of vow sounds. It's-

    He aha te tikanga o tērā, Uncle, te whakamahinga o ngā oropuare?

    What does that mean Uncle, treatment of vowel sounds?

    AEIOU. Mehemea koe ka whakarongo ki tō rātou…nā te mea he matatau ki te kōrero, ā, ko tō rātou tangi mai i pārekareka ki te taringa, kāore i tiotio pēnei i te tangi o te pounamu Champagne, pēnei i ētahi o ngā…

    AEIOU. If you listen to their... because they were fluent speakers and so the, their sound was euphonious to the ears, not grinding like sandpaper, like some of the...

    Pērā i ētahi o ngā…Kāo.

    Like some of the... No.

    Na, koinā te kurahuna o ngā mea matatau ki te kōrero i te reo, e mōhio ana ki te hōhonutanga o ngā waiata e waiatatia ana e rātou, ā, he hononga tō rātou ki taua tangi rā. Ka kī rā rātou, he nui tonu te whakaaweawe mai o te mahi a Tuini.

    I mean, that's the other unique thing is that you've got people who are fluent in the language, know the depth of the songs they're singing, and they have a genuine attachment to that sound. They would say, Can't say enough about the influence of Tuini's work.

    Kei te mahara koe ki te waiata tuatahi nāu i tito, ā, ko te aha te ingoa?

    Do you remember the first song you composed and what it was called?

    Kia mōhio mai, i hua ake i te mea rā. I pakeke mai ahau i Ngāti Porou. (ka waiata). Ka rongo ahau i te reo waiata, engari kāore he tangata. Karawhiua ana. Kātahi ka panoni noa iho ahau i ētahi kupu kia ō ai. (ka waiata) I waimarie ahau i taua wā. Ko tētahi o ōku koroua nō Ngāti Porou i te mahi ki Tīpene, ko Blackie Pōhatu, ā, ka toro mai a ia i ōna wā. Ka hoatu, ka whakahaere akoranga mā ngā, ā, he pai hoki āna kupu akiaki. 

    Oh, actually it was a take off of, it's a thing. I was brought up in Mgāti Porou . (singing) . I hear music but there's no one there. Arty's thrash it. Then I just changed some of the words to fit. (singing) I was lucky at the time. One of my koroua from Ngāti Porou was working at Tipene, Blackie Pohatu and he would drop in sometimes. He would give, he would run some classes for the, and he would give some really good advice.

    E mahara nei au ki tētahi atu waiata, ā, ka whakaaturia atu ngā kupu ki a ia. “Ō, pai atu te mea tū i runga?” I pērā koe, nā te mea āhua hauā koe. Ko tōna māmā, he wahine i mōhiotia mō te mōteatea, nō reira āe. I waimarie i te kura, engari kei korā a Blackie.

    I remember doing one other song and I showed him the words. "Oh, pai atu te mea tu i runga?" You were, because you are sort of hauā. His mother was a well known mōteatea person, so yeah. So lucky way at school, but Blackie's is over there. 

    Ka taea te whangai wetahi ō ngā...

    He was able to teach some of….

    Nō reira, e whakapae ana koe koirā te wā i tino kerewa ai, i tino auaha ai ngā tūpuna mō te āhua ki te titonga o ā rātou waiata, he ngahau, pēnei i te paraikete i kōrerotia rā e koe…?

    So do you think that would've been the time where tupuna were quite creative and clever about the way that they composed their waiata, fun times, like you spoke about the paraikete......?

    He tauira i reira. Ki te rangahau koe i te mōteatea, ka waihangatia e koe he kupu whakarite, i whakamahia rā i ētahi kaupapa motuhake, kāore te aroha e kaikirikiri ana, engari kia ruku rawa koe ki te kaupapa. Ko te kāore, i tērā horopaki, kāore he aroha pēnei i tēnei nei. Nō reira, ka titoa tētahi mō Maka, kāore te aroha e, pākeke, āe. Kāore he aroha pēnei, kāore he mamae pēnei. Nō reira i tīmata taku whakataki i tērā, ngā kīanga mōteatea ki -

    There were certain key patterns. If you study mōteatea, you start certain metaphors, they used for certain occasions, kaore te aroha e kairikiriki ana but it's not until you delve into it. Kaore in that sense means there's no love like this. So compose one for Maka, kaore te aroha e, pākeke, yeah. There's no love like, there's no pain like this. So I started introducing those, the mōteatea type structures into-

    Ki ō waiata.

    To your waiata.

    Āe, he aha i kore ai?

    Yeah, why not?

    Āe. Nō reira, nō muri mai i a Tīpene i hoki mai koe ki Te Whānau-a-Apanui?

    Yeah. So, after Tipene you came back to Te-Whānau-ā-Apanui?

    Kāo, i haere ahau ki…Heoi anō, i mīeretia pea ōku hoa e au mai i…I ngana ahau ki te haere ki te whare wānanga, engari he kōrero anō tērā. Nō reira, ka haere ahau ki Tāmaki, ā, ka heke ki Wikitōria, i reira ka tūtaki ki tētahi koroua ko Bill Parker tōna ingoa, i mahi rā ki te Māori, ko ia te Ahurangi mō, he tohunga puoro ki te reo Pākehā, he tohunga reo Māori. Tino tohunga. 

    No, I went to... Well, I probably best my mates from... I tried to go to university, but that's another story. So I went to Auckland and down to Vic where I met up with a koroua by the name of Bill Parker who worked in the māori, he was the ahurangi for. And Dorian of the English and Dorian of the Te Reo Māori. Tino tohunga .

    Nō reira i a ia e rangatahi ana ki Pōneke, ko te momo i a Aperana me Te Rewiri Kohere, e ai ki a ia ko ngā tino kaitārai kupu o Ngāti Porou. Whakamāoritia ai a Rurutao.

    So when he was a young fala in Wellington, he had the likes of Aperana and Te Rewiti Kohere, which he considers in one of the great poets of Ngāti Porou. Translate Shakespeare.

    Wī.

    Wow.

    Ko Rurutao, a, ko wai te Koterana… to marry thou lingering star with less'ning ray...te koroua e koe te whetū mārama...Nō reira, koia ko te noho tahi ki te koroua me te ruku i te hōhonutanga o te rua o te reo, tutū ai i ngā waiata, ā, i taua wā anō rā i reira hoki a Ruka Broughton. I a māua ko Ngaata i tāna whakahaerenga pae rua, tohu hōnore rānei pea. He motuhake anō te noho ki tētahi tohunga, tokorua rānei ngā tohunga. Nō reira ko ngā ringaringa ka whātoro atu, ka tangohia ngā mōhiotanga. Nō reira, ehara i te…kāore e rere i a koe. He āhuatanga ka hua mai i roto i te wā.

    Shakespeare and who's that Scottish... to marry thou lingering star with less'ning ray... te koroua e koe te whetū mārama...... So that's sitting with that koroua and go for the depth of language roto tonu i ngā waiata and at the same time we had the likes of Ruka Broughton. When Ngaata and I were in his masters, I think honors class. It's a unique to actually be in the presence of a Tohunga, two tohunga's. So put the hands in, tangohia ngā mohiotanga. So it's not a... It doesn't flow from you. It's something that you pick up over time.

    Ko te aha tō tino maharatanga i a koe e tipu ana ki te ao haka mō te wāhi ki te tito me te waiata i ngā waiata katoa i waiatahia rā i taua wā?

    What has been your favourite memory up to then around te ao haka in composition and singing all the waiata that were around at that time? 

    E waiata ana i ngā waiata a Tuini i ngā wā katoa. Mehemea ko ahau takitahi, ka waiata ahau i ngā waiata katoa i ahau nā te mea i ahau te pukapuka, arā, ahakoa te kaupapa, he waiata mō ngā mea katoa, te whai wāhine, te haere ki ngā pāti.

    Always singing Tuini songs. If I was alone, I'd sing all the songs that I had because I had the book and the thing is that it, no matter what the motive situation was, there was a song for everything, chasing girls around, going to parties...

    Haere ki ngā pāti.

    Going to parties.

    Ā, ko tētahi atu mea, ā, kāore anō i taka te kapa, tae rawa ki te, ka taka rā, arā, ko te tiriti me ngā mahi tōrangapū. Engari whakatōkia ai tērā mā te…he mahi anō te whakatōrangapū i te tangata, ko te aro anō ki te tōrangapū, kei roto i ēnei waiata nei.

    And the other thing was, and it didn't dawn on me till, well, it began to dawn was the treaty, political stuff. So that was ingrained through... there was a mode of politicized, being politically aware, is through those songs.

    E whakapae ana koe ko te kaupapa nui o taua wā ko te pakanga? Te pakanga, te aroha, tētahi e mate ana, whānau, i aua wā rā?

    Do you think the theme back then was only around the war. The pakanga, aroha, tētahi e mate ana, whānau, back then?

    Heoi anō, ko te mea kē, ko ia, ki ahau nei, ko tāna i tēnei ao ko te tārai kupu mā te iwi. I waiata ia mō ngā take o te wā. Ko tētahi waiata e whakaaro nui atu ana ahau, i whakamahia rā e ia te kupu ‘pūrari paka’. Nāwai rā, ka whai wāhi ana ahau, i kī ahau, ‘pūrari pokotiwha e.”

    I mean, the thing is the, she, to me anyway, she performed a role of a poet in society. She sung about things that were happening. One song I really think of is she used, use the word purari paka. So, later on when I had the opportunity, I said, "Purari poko tiwha e."

    He aha tērā waiata?

    What was that song?

    John Key

    Hone Kī.

    Āna.

    Oh, right.

    “Ngā mahi whakaparahako e ki taku mana Māori motuhake e”.

    “Your scandalous deeds against my Māori sovereignty”.

    He aha tāna waiata nāna I mahi I te Pūrari paka?

    What was her song that she used Pūrari paka?

    Taku mōhio i te kōhete a ia i tētahi minita.

    She was I think, telling off a minister.

    A.

    Oh.

    Nō reira, i te whānuitanga o te oranga kei reira te kaitārai kupu. Kei te hōhonutanga o te whakapono me te āhua ki te mana motuhake me Te Tiriti o Waitangi me te huahari mō tērā. Nō reira, pērā i tāku i kī rā, i wānanga kē ahau. Ko te mea nei e whakatinanahia ana. 

    So across the whole spectrum of life there's the poet. In the depth of the religion and the thing around Mana motuhake and Te Tiriti o Waitangi and the huarahi mō tērā. So, like I said, I already had a wānanga . The thing has been putting it into practice.

    Ko ngā waiata pāti, i tino ngākau nuitia, ā, i tino kerewa hoki tā rātou titotito mai. Kei te mahara rā koe ki ērā?

    Party songs back then were quite, well alive back then and they were very clever when they put them together. Do you remember any of them?

    He nui tonu kāore e tika ana kia waiatahia tūmanuitia.

    Oh, quite a few but they shouldn't be sung in public.

    Kāo, engari ngā mea whai take nē.

    No, but meaningful one's, aye.

    Kei te mahara ahau ki Sam Kāretu. He mea i kite ahau, arā, i te kōrero ia mō, heoi ano, ko te mea kē ko te whakatakotoranga. Ki te titiro atu ki te whakatakotoranga…I kōrero a Ruka mō ngā pao, ēnei kuia i Whanganui, mō te pao. Whiu kōrero, whakautu kōrero o ēnā mea katoa. Nō reira, ka puta ana koe, koinā te puoro e….

    But I remember Sam Karetu. There was a thing I saw him and he was talking about. I mean, the thing is it's the construct. When you look at the construct... Ruka used to talk about pao's, these kuia's up the Whanganui, for pao. Impromptu, things like that. So, when you go out and that's the music that you're...

    Nō reira, ki te puta koe, arā, koinā te puoro e…

    So when you go out and that's the music that you're...

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    Nō reira, e mōhio ana koe ko ēhea ko ā Tuini. E waiata ana ia, ā, kāore āku waiata i hāngai ki tō rātou horopaki, engari he nui ngā mea pai hei waiatahanga mā te tangata. Kaua ko āna. He waiata noa ēnā i waiatahia noatia i konā.

    You know which ones are Tuini's. She's singing and most of my thing were not in their context, but there were some really good ones that you could sing. Not hers. They were just songs that they were singing around there.

    Nō muri mai i te whare wānanga, i hoki mai koe? I whai tūranga anō koe i konei?

    After Whare wānanga you came back home? You seconded back here?

    Āe. I hoki mai ahau ki konei. I te mahi ahau ki Pōneke, ā, ka whai tūranga tuarua ki konei. Nō reira i whakaaro ahau me hoki mai.

    Yeah. I ended up back here. I was working in Pōneke and got seconded back here year. So I thought I'd come back.

    Ā, i hoki mai koe i te wā i tīmata ai a Te Whānau-a-Apanui? Te kapa?

    And you came back into a time when Te-Whānau-ā-Apanui was starting up? The Kapa?

    Ko ōku whanaunga, ko Emma Nehu mā, i te whakahaere rā i ngā tikanga e mau tonu ai te Apanuitanga. Engari, i hoki mai ahau. I te whare wānanga ahau, tahi ki a Wīremu Pāka me Ruka, nō reira…ko tōku ao ko te mōteatea.

    I mean, my cousins were basically, Emma Nehu they were basically running the dynamic to keep the people as an avenue to hold onto their Apanuitanga. But I came back. I had been at University, being with Wiremu Paka and Ruka so I was... My world was mōteatea.

    He aha ētahi o ngā āhuatanga papai, ki a koe, o te mōteatea?

    What are some of the things that you like about mōteatea?

    Ko tētahi ko te hōhonutanga o te reo. He rite tonu tā Bill Pāka mai ki ahau "Whāia e koe, pēnā mai te hiahia te hōhonutanga kei roto kei ngā waiata kē." Ā, ka hua i a ia tētahi kōrero mō ēnei tāngata ngaio i haramai rā me te kī ake kua rewa te reo i te kaitārai kupu Māori ki taumata kē. Nō reira, whāia te reo.

    Well, one is the depth of the language. So Bill Paka always said to me, "You study, pēnā mai te hiahia te hohonutanga kei roto kei ngā waiata kē." And he made this quote about these academics that had come there and said that the Māori poet had taken poetry to its heights. So study the language.

     Koina te reo katoa i a ki runga i ngā marae, ngā huihui nā te tangata. 

    That was the language on all of the marae, and the events people attended.

    Koirā te reo ka whakamahia i ngā whakahaerenga tikanga i runga marae me ērā tūāhuatanga. 

    That's the frame of language that's used in its ceremonial operations on marae and that.

    Ehara i te mea…kāore rātou…I warea katoa te iwi ki tērā mahi, me te kapa haka, engari i neke ahau mai i tēnei taha ki tēnei taha, ā, ka…āe.

    And it wasn't really being... there weren't... People was crazy for that as it was for doing kapa haka ,but so I moved in from that camp and absconded myself in this camp and became, yeah.

    Nō reira, e kī ana koe mō tō mātou whakareanga me te whakareanga o muri ake, me tīmata tā mātou rangahau i ngā kōrero o roto, koirā pea tētahi wāhi hei tīmata.

    So would you say for our generation and the younger generation, to start unpacking what the mōteatea are actually talking about where we could start from?

    Āe, nā te mea he tauira tēnei o te hinengaro Māori me tāna whakatinana mai, tāna whakamahinga hoki i te taiao. Tērā te marama ka mahuta i te pae. Tērā Kōpū, ngā whetū. Kāore i rerekē i te Kōtimana. ‘Thou lingering star with lessen'ing rays that loves the early morn’. Koirā te take i pai rā a Te Rewiti ki a Robert Burns, nā te mea pēnei i ngā Māori, i waiata a Robert Burns mō te taiao.

    Yeah, because it provides a model for the way the Māori mind expresses and uses nature. Tērā te marama ka mahau tei te pai.... Tērā kōpū, the stars. No different than the Scotsman, Thou lingering star with lessen'ing rays that loves the early morn. That's why I think Te Reweti liked Robert Burns, because Robert Burns like the Māori poets sung about nature.

    Ko Te Whānau-a-Apanui tō kapa haka tuatahi? Kapa haka pakeke?

    Was Te-Whānau-ā-Apanui your first kapa haka? Adult kapa haka?

    Āe. Anake.

    Yeah, only.

    Te tuatahi me te whakamutunga, nē?

    First and only, eh?

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    Ko wai ō kaiako i taua wā. 

    Who were the tutors back then?

    O, nō reira i te whakaako aku whanaunga i a Te Whānau-a-Apanui. I te noho atu ahau i ngā tāera puoro o te wā. I rawe ki ahau te tāera tawhito…arā, ko…taku mōhio he whakataukī tā Teitana Make. 

    Oh, so my cousins were tutoring Te-whānau-ā-Apanui. I was living away from all that modern jazz. I was into the old...Then there's, I think Teitana Make has a, whakatauki, 

    Te whare e tū ana i te pārae he kai nā te aha. Te whare e tū ana i te pā tuwatawata he tohu te rangatira. 

    A house that stands alone on the land is food for the fire. A house that stands within the palisade is a chiefly house.

    Ko te tikanga ko te…ko ahau me taku kotahi i konei, i Pūriritahi nei e waiata ana i taku mōteatea engari ko te marea kei raro iho rā. Nō reira, ka kī rātou “O, heke mai,” i horokukū engari i whai rautaki tonu i taku kī atu, “Āe. Āe, ka heke mai ahau.” Nō reira, ko tāku he tito e rere pai ai te mōteatea. Ngā hītori, ko ngā āhuatanga katoa o te mōteatea e rere atu ana ki te taiao.

    Basically means that... just me and my lonesome up here at Puriritahi singing my mōteatea but the crowd is down there. So when they said, "Oh, come down," I reluctantly but strategically said, "Yeah. Yeah, I'll come down." So what I did basically was compose so that mōteatea would flow. The histories, everything in mōteatea would flow into that environment.  

    Nā kōrero mō ngā tipuna, ngā kōrero mō ngā..... 

    The stories about the ancestors, the stories about the…

    Nō reira, i toa ahau i te mutunga o te rā.

    So I think I won at the end of the day.

    Nō reira, e ai ki a koe -

    So you think-

    He rautaki pai. Kāre he take o te whare tū ana i te parae. Āe. 

    But good strategy. No good just being whare e tū ana i te parae. Yeah.

    Yeah. So ko wai atu ngā kaiwhakako i aua wā rā, Nanny Maka, Nanny Emma?

    Yeah. So, who else were the tutors in those days? Nanny Maka? Nanny Emma?

    Āe. Āe. Nō reira he whānau pūmanawa nui ērā tuākana-teina. Katoa he whanaunga katoa ki ahau, ā, he pūmanawa motuhake o tēnā, o tēnā. He Ringatū anō hoki. Rumakina ana ki te tikanga me tērā momo āhuatanga, he mārohirohi me ngā mahi i te marae, ngā tikanga a Te Whānau-a-Apanui, wēna mea katoa – ko ērā kuia, ki ahau nei, kāore he rite. Otirā, ko rātou ngā mea me whai tātou mō te taha ki te whakangahau me te tauira i whakatakotoria e rātou. He taonga ki te whakareanga e pihi ake nei. 

    Oh, yes. Yes. I mean... So they're very talented family of sisters. They're all cousins to me and they had their own unique talent or Ringatū too. Immersed in tikanga and like, staunch mā mahi i te marae, ngā tikanaga ō Te-Whānau-ā-Apanui, all of those things those kuia, can't be touched in my book. Can't be touched by anybody. In fact, they're the ones we have to live up to in terms of how they performed in that arena and their standards that set. So really good for the next generation.

    Āe. Nō reira he tuākana-teina rātou, ā, he mahi motuhake tā tēnā, tā tēnā, he pūkenga motuhake tō tēnā, tō tēnā, ā, kia kotahi mai ana rātou, whakahirahira ana.

    Yeah. So, they were a pack of sisters, and they all had a different role, different skill set and then when they came together it was magic.

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    Āe. He aha te rerekētanga o Nanny Maka i a Nanny Emma?

    Yeah. What was the difference between Nanny Maka and Nanny Emma.

    He tito a Maka, he tito anō a Emma. He mōhiotanga ake ō rāua ki ngā tikanga, mōhio ki te reo, mōhio ki ngā mea karakia. Nō reira, tēnā, tēnā he whetū i te rangi, e tīramarama ana i tōna anō hinātore, i tōna anō korōria. 

    Maka composed and Emma composed. They had their own, they knew tikanga and they knew the language and they also knew karakia. So, each a star in the sky, in its own brightness and its own glory.

    Āe. I reira hoki a Koro Bill Tāwhai, nē?

    Yeah. And Koro Bill Tawhai was around then too, aye?

    Tata tonu kua Bill Pāka i Te Whānau-a-Apanui. He tangata mōhio.

    I mean, he was nearly Bill Paka in Te-Whānau-ā-Apanui. He was very erudite. 

    Mō te tū ki te kōrero. 

    He was unchallenged for oratory.

    Ngutu miere.

    He had honey on his tongue. 

    Rawe mō te whakatakoto. 

    He could really tell a tale. 

    I tāna tuhingaroa, mehemea koe ka pānui i tāna tuhingaroa, ngāwari tonu te reo, ehara i te mea he whā, rima kū pēnei i ngā kupu e whiua haeretia ana.

    Even his thesis, you read his thesis, ngāwari tonu te reo I don't think four or five syllable type words that everybody seem to throw into. 

    Ngāwari tonu te tuku i te reo and e pērā tonu te koroua, e tohunga mō te whakairo i te kupu.

    The language is simple, that’s what that old man was like, he was an expert orator. 

    Ki konei mō te taha ki te kapa haka me te Hāhi Ringatū. He mea hihiri tērā momo kaupapa.

    And in kapa haka and the Ringatū faith too. That was an enlightening topic. 

    He mea nui tērā ki a Te Whānau-a-Apanui e noho tahi ai ērā mea e rua? Te reo, Hāhi, haka, waiata.

    Was that really important for Te-Whānau-ā-Apanui to make sure that those two things were together? Te reo, Hāhi, haka, waiata.

    Āe. He tirohanga tērā o rātou ki te ao tūroa. 

    Yeah. Basically there's a reflection of how they view the universe. 

    Taha wairua, taha tinana, taha kikokiko. Taha tinana kē ahua flows from the wairua. 

    The spirit, the body, the flesh. The body really flows from the wairua. 

    Nō reira, katoa he hirahira e mau tonu ai te kauhanganui me te mōhio hoki ki te mātāpuna. Nō reira, mehemea kei te kōrero koe mō te ihi, me te wehi – koinā te mātāpuna. Nō reira, ko te mea kē, ko te…āe.

    So it's all important to keep the balance and to know where the source is. So, if you are asking for ihi and wehi, that's where the source is. So the thing is to, yeah.

    E whakapae ana koe, nō te tau 1986, me kī i haere rātou ki Ōtautahi, tae rawa mai ki tēnei wā, kua whanake te tāera me te tū a Apanui mai i aua wā?

    Do you think from 1986, say they went to Christchurch, to now kapa haka's evolved in the style and the stance of Apanui has evolved since those times? Oh

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    Āe. He aha, kia koe, te take e rerekē ana ināianei?

    Yeah. What do you think that's happened now? 

    Taiao, kei te rereke, kei te huri te ao?

    The environment, things are changing, the world is changing?

    He nui ngā āhuatanga. Ka ako koe i te mahi. Nō reira, ko te rite o ngā reo he poraka, engari ka kuhu mai ētahi tohunga waiata ki te whakangungu i tētahi momo waiata e hāngai ana ki te momo tangi i hiahia rā mātou.

    A lot of things. I mean, you learn in the process. So I mean, we start off singing like bull frogs, but we got people, trained singers to come in and teach a type of singing that fit the type of sound we wanted to produce.

    Ā, nō reira i hua mai ko tētahi tangi pai, nō reira ka whanake te tangi i te rere o te wā.

    And so we actually got a really good fit and so sound develops over time.

    Ā-nekehanga nei? Heoi anō, mehemea ko te whakataetae, me whakaaro ki te wāhi me te wāhi e noho rā ngā kaiwhakawā.

    Movement wise? Well, if it's competition stuff, then you're impacted on by space and where the judges are sitting.

    E noho atu ana rātou. Kāore e pai kia mahi ringa pēnei. Engari ināianei, me te pouaka whakaata, pai, engari i muri he aha me āhua whānui ehara me ngā ringaringa. Nō reira, poipoia tērā. Nō reira ko ngā nekehanga e hāngai ana ki te mea e mātakitakina ana me te mea e whakarongona atu ana. Ka āhua whakaari nei engari ka whai tonu ki te pupuri ki tētahi momo tū i konei.

    They're sitting back there. No good having actions like this (demonstrates action). But now with the TV and the, pai but back there he aha me ahua whānui ehara me ngā rinaringa. So encourage that. So the look is about sight and sound in a way. So we end up getting semi production but trying to maintain a certain, momo tū, momo tū i konei.

    Yeah. Yeah, He ātaahua te kori ā ngā wāhine ō konei me te haka ā ngā tāne. Kei a koe he momo tū tēnā ō Apanui?

    Āe. Āe. The women here perform beautifully as do the men. Do you have a particular stance here in Apanui?

    Āe. I whakarite mātou kia pērā. Ko te mea whakamutunga hei whakamātautau māhau, me tū ki te pātiki o iwi kē atu. Ngāti Porou mō au ā te tū te kori o Ngāti Porou, kāore koe e pērā, nō reira, me kimi he momo piu he momo tū ano, ā, ka waihanga mai i ngā nekehanga, ngā mea katoa e hāngai ana ki tēnei.

    Yeah. We made it like that. Last thing you want to do, try and stand in another iwi's paddock. Ngāti Porou mō au ā te tū te kōri ō Ngāti Porou well, you are not going to be that so me kimia he momo piu he momo tū ano that fits with you and design your movement and thing around it.

    Yeah. I kōrero tētahi ki a ko Koro Ngaapo, he kōrero nā, i puta mai he kōrero.

    Yeah. I spoke with Koro Ngāpō, and he told a story.

    I haere mātou ki Whangarei, me tana tino harikoa e ko puta mai tae atu mātou ki roto I ēnā, ki roto I tēnā mahi whakataetae. Ka eke ia I tā mātou pahi, ka kore mātou e wareware he aha ngā kōrero o te koroua rā, nā runga I tōna aroha, mea mai kia mātou, kaua e whai mai i ahau. Ka mutu, he hikuroa Waka Huia, Waihirere katoa mātou. Kōira tānam me whakatūpato ia mātou, kaua e whai, kimihia tō koutou ake tū. Tō koutou ake hari tō Te-Whānau- ā- Apanui. Ko tāku, ēra tū ō mātou.

    We went up to Whangārei and he was so happy that we went and entered each of those competitions. He came into our bus and never forgot, we never forget because he did it out of love for us, don’t follow us. Don't be. And of course we were all close to Waka Huia and Waihirere. That was his biggest caution to us, don’t be like us, find your own style for Te Whānau-a-Apanui. I said those are our styles.

    Ko te kōrero āwhina pai ko te mahi me te whakapau kaha ki tērā mea. Nō reira, ko te mea e rongo ana koe ināianei i ahu mai i ngā tohutohu pai, ngā tohutohu mō tērā mea. Nō reira, ko te aronga kāore e hāngai ki te papa whakatū waewae anake, engari mō te tū me te āhua o ngā tāngata o raro i te papa, nā te mea ko te ingoa o te iwi kei I a rātou. Koirā e waimarie nei mātou ki te hunga pēnei i a Hone mā, he tangata ā-iwi kē hoki.

    Probably the best advice was to do and to work hard at that. So what you probably see in here now is a result of some really good advice and some good tohutohu mō tērā mea. So the focus is not only on the stage, but mō te tū me te ahua ō nā tangata off the stage beacause ko te ingoa ō te iwi e ingoa ō ia rātou. That's something that we fortunate to have the likes of Hone and them, very iwi proud people.

     Nō reira, kia makare tō tarau, ka hoki te whakama ki te iwi. 

    So, if your pants fall down, it’s the iwi that are embarrassed. 

    Ko tētahi wāhanga nui ko te ako i roto i tētahi kapa haka ā-iwi.

    Part of the learning comes with being in iwi kapa haka from an iwi. 

    Ko te ingoa ō te iwi, Nō rerira me rangatira te tū, me rangatira te whakaaro, kaua e mate wheke.

    The name of the tribe, so you must stand like a chief and think like a chief, that’s the 

    Te tū ā te momo haka, stance, a haka stance? He rite ki tētahi atu ō nā koutou ano i whakairo i tēnā momo tū?

    Haka stance? Is it similar to anyone or did you develop your own stance?

    Na, me kī ahau te tū a Te Tai Rawhiti, tōna tū. Ei, e mōhio ana te ao katoa ka heke atu koe ki reira me te momo piu, he momo mea nō Te Tai Rawhiti wēnā. Ā, koinā pea te rohe e tika ana kia noho atu mātou. Nō reira, kāore he take o te mahi.

    Well, I will say te tū ō Te Tai Rawhiti, tona tū. Hey, everybody knows you come down there and momo piu, e momo mea nō Te Tai Rawhiti wēnā. And that's the probably regional paddock we belong in. So no good trying to do something.

    Nō reira, ko ērā ētahi o ngā mea me whai nā te mea koirā te tū. Kāore e tika ana kia rerekē mai. 

    And so those there are some things you follow because that's the form. It wouldn't make sense to be trying to do something different.

    Āe, ko te taparahi, ko te tū taparahi.

    Taparahi aye, taparahi stance

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    Ko te tito, Uncle, nō hea mai tō, hāunga ia ngā kōrero o mua me te toikupu ka hua mai, me ngā waiata, he aha ētahi tohutohu ki te hunga rangatahi e tū ai rātou hei kaitito? He aha āu kupu āwhina i a rātou?

    Composition, Uncle, where do you get your, other than getting your inspiration from the old sayings and the poetry that happens, and the songs, what is some advice to our younger people to be able to become good composers? What advice would you give them?

    Heoi anō, mōku, he tohunga tōku hai -

    Well, for me, I had an expert that I could-

    E mōhio ana ahau. 

    I know.

    Nō reira, kōwhiria mai he tangata pai ki a koe, he rōpū pai rānei ki a koe, kātahi ka ruku atu. Koinei te tūāpapa o tō ako nā te mea ko ngā mea e waihanga mai ana i ērā mahi, e whakapau ana i ngā hāora manomano, kaua anake ki te puoro, engari ki te nekeneke hoki…ko te whare katoa. Kāore e aro ki tētahi mea kotahi.  Me eke koe i ngā āhuatanga katoa, ngā āhuatanga katoa, te kori, te tū, pēhea te māhunga, ngā ringa, ngā nekehanga, te whai me te tangi ka hua i a koe. Me tō āhua e…

    So choose somebody you really like, or group that you really like and delve in. I mean, that becomes the basis for your learning because the people who are producing that stuff, they spent thousands and thousands of hours, not only in terms of in the music, but in the movement, in the... It's a total system. It's not, you can become really good at one. You got to actually be good at all the parts to it, all the parts to look, te kori, te tū, pehea te mahuna, all the actions, movement, following, and the sound that you produce. And your ahua that you.....

    Engari ko tētahi atu, me mārama koe ki te tukanga auaha ka whāia e koe. He whakapae āku. Engari koinei te mahi. O, ko te Matatini hei te tau e tū mai nei. Me hua mai tētahi mea i a koe. Nō reira, kāore he whakakipakipatanga i tua atu i te mahi noa nā te mea me mahi. Nō reira, he wāhanga tērā o te horopaki.

    But the other is that you understand the creative process for you? I used to have my own theories. Well, it is the reality. Oh, I got Matatini again next year. You got to come up with something. So there's no other motivation than having to do it because that has to be done. So that's part of that context.

    Heoi anō ko te mea, ka kite koe i ētahi o aku waiata…Kua taraiwa ahau i te waka, ka ngau mai te porohau, ā, i te kai pire ahau me te taraiwa haere e āhua māngina ana, engari ka puta mai ētahi tangi, taki hoki. Koirā te whakahaerenga tuarua o Tauti. Ka ahu mai i tētahi mea rerekē. Tērā pea he oro ōpera (ka waiata). Kātahi ka mea koe (ka waiata) ā, ki ahau ko tērā oro, ko tērā kare ā-roto e hāngai ana ki te kuīni. Nō reira ko te mea nui kia aronui koe ki tāu mahi.

    But the thing is, you'll find that some of my songs... I've actually been driving in a car, had the gout, was on certain pills and you are driving along and you might be a little bit spaced out, but there's a certain sound and rhythms that come through. Then that's the second version of Tauti come out of that. It comes from different. So it may be a thing of sound like one of these opera sound (singing). Then your thing will say, (singing) and to me that sound, that emotion is befitting for a queen. So the first thing is to have empathy for what you're doing. 

    Me hono te hinengaro me te ngakau ki roto i tō kaupapa.

    You have to connect the mind and the heart to the context.

    Ā, mehemea ka pērā koe, ā, ka kitea e koe he momo tangi e hāngai ana, e hāngai ana ki te kaupapa. Ko Tuini, e kuti ana. (Ka waiata) Nō reira ko te tangi me te taki. Koinei katoa ngā āhuatanga. Me aro ki tērā, ā, ka hua mai te mahi, i tō hinengaro. Nō reira, ka whakaarohia whakarotohia. Ka rongo koe i te…tērā pea he taki. Tērā he pea he kōrero. Ka kī tētahi, “O, me whai tētahi mea”. Ā, ka whakaaro noatia. Engari, kua roa ahau e mahi nei ko te hinengaro e tito ana. Kua mahia e koe me tētahi atu wāhanga o ngā roro, kaua i te wāhanga ohooho. Kātahi ka tīmata tō whakakotahi mai i ngā whakaaro. “O, ko mea tērā…” ā, then mai i muri. Koirā te hirahira o te karakia.

    And if you do that and then you'll find the sound that fits it, sound that fits the purpose. Tuini, shearing shed. (singing) So sound and rhythm. So there's all these dimensions to it. Focus on that and the actual production comes, I think, in the subconscious. So you'll be thinking about the inside. You hear these... might be a rhythm. Might be a saying. Somebody says, "Oh, I need tētahi mea." And you'll think about it consciously. But I've been doing it long enough the subconscious actually does all the compositions. You've done it another part of your brain, not in the conscious part. That's when you starting pulling the ideas together. "Oh that'll be..." and then mai i muri. That's where the karakia is important.

    Āe, he tino waiata tāu?

    Yeah. Do you also have a jam?

    Ahau?

    Me?

    Āe, ka rakuraku noa koe i to ukurere, tō rakuraku rānei?

    Yeah, just strum around on your uke or on your guitar?

    Āe. He mea rerekē…nō reira, he rerekē ngā oro o te rakuraku. Ko tētahi atu mea ka whakaaro ake ahau ko te pōturi me te tere. Mehemea kei te pīrangi koe, pēnei i ahau nei, me whakaaro ahau ka pēhea taku, nā mātou i karanga ake he mō horaute, mō horaute mō ngā waka i haere mai te taha o Toi. He nui ngā kōrero. Kāore koe e whakahāngai ki te puoro pōturi nē, ana ko te mea kē, ka pēhea tō whakauru mai i ngā kupu kia ō ai, kia hikohiko ai hoki te hinengaro o te kaiwhakarongo, ki ngā taringa o ngā tāngata e whakarongo ana.

    Yeah. Well a different... So a guitar produce different type of sounds. The other thing I think about is slow and fast. If you are wanting to, like for me, I had to think of how do I, well mātou called it a mō horaute, mo horaute mo ngā waka i haere mai te taha ō toi . Well, you basically got quite a lot of information. So you ain't going to be doing with slow sounding stuff, are you? The rhythm going to be up because you actually, and the thing is. And how are you actually getting these words and the sounds to fit in so that you can excite the mind of people listening, the ears of people listening.

    Pai tēnā.

    That’s awesome. 

    Āe. Nō reira, koirā noa ngā tohutohu kei ahau. Engari tēnā ki tāna. Pēnei i tāku i kī rā, kua waimarie ahau i aku iho pūmanawa.

    Yeah. So that's the only advice I can give. But to each their own. Like I said, I've been really fortunate to have some models.

    Pērā i te waiata (Ka waiata)

    Like the song (sings)

    Nō reira, he pai tērā nā te mea, ko ō tātou whanaunga nō Mauke. I haramai rātou ki konei, ā, kei te pērā tonu rātou, mō te tuku iho rātou kōrero a waha nei, ināianei ko te Māori mō te tuhituhi me ērā mea katoa. Ana, ki ahau nei ka titi tērā ki te hinengaro. Haramai ki konei, ka noho rātou, ka waiata rātou mō te rā katoa i a rātou i konei. Ā, ka kī atu ngā pakeke, “he pērā tonū ngā pakeke”. I waiatahia e ō tātou iwi ngā kōrero, ā, ko te puoro tētahi wāhanga nui o te oranga. Ā, ka tae atu rātou ki te whakaatu i tō rātou pūkenga, ka waiatahia atu ēnei waiata ki a rātou. Nō reira, i haramai rātou ki konei.

    That's interesting because. Now our whanaunga from Mauke. They came here and they are still the ones for handing down knowledge verbally, now māoridom more into the writing and all that. And that to me impacts on the mind. Come here, they actually sat and they would sing all day while they were here. And the old people would say, "he pērā tonū ngā pakeke " Our people sung poetry and music was part and parcel of life. And when they would get to there to show how gregarious they are, they would sing that all these songs for them. So they came there.

    Nō reira, ka heke iho ahau. Te wā tuatahi i tūtaki ai ahau ki ngā kōrero a tētahi o ēnei timu. I mahi rā ki te kura kaupapa Māori, ā, koinā tāna kōrero, Paikea taku tipuna, ā, ka kī hoki mātou Paikea tōku tipuna tērā, ā, i reira ahau e whakaaroaro ana, he aha te mea. Nō reira, i mārama ia ki te Māori tūturu, engari koirā tāku i rongo ai i tana mea ko taku tipuna. Kātahi ka rere atu, me tīmata te kōrero mō Paikea, āe. Taku whakapae i te kī rā ia “You might use toku thinking he's yours, but after I finished talking to you, you know he's mine.”

    So I went down. The first time I met one of these timu kōrero's, he worked in a kura kaupapa māori and that was what he said, Paikea taku tipuna, and we say Paikea toku tipuna tērā And I was trying to figure out, he aha te mea. So he understand the real Māori but that's what I heard his mea taku tipuna. Then he just transported me and started talking about Paikea, yeah. I think he was saying, "You might use toku thinking he's yours, but after I finished talking to you, you know he's mine."

    Ō, tino pai. 

    Oh, oh cool.

    Ā, ko te mea kē mehemea i whakaaro ki te āhua o tāna kōrero, ko wai tana pāpā, ko wai tana mea, porangi kura e…koinā te momo kōrero i puta mai. Kātahi ka tīmata ki te taki i ētahi takirua. Kātahi ko tāna wahine, tana hoa kei te mahi kai, mea rawa ake ka uru mai, he whakamīharotanga! He nui ngā mea hei ako mā tātou i ngā whanaunga i ngā moutere. Ko te mōrearea ka tau kē tātou ki ētahi atu āhuatanga, he pai tonu tērā. Engari he wānanga kei reira. I pērā ahau ki te whakahōnore i tāna kōrero. 

    And the thing is, so that they had taken the transmission of what he was saying what his father, ko wai tana pāpā, ko wai tana mea, porangi kura e.... All that sort of thing was coming. Then he would start these pairs. Then his wife his, she was cooking kai next thing got to join in and. It was a site to behold and I think we have a lot to learn from our whanaunga's from the Moutere. Because the danger we ends up, we end up picking up some other stuff, which is okay. But there's a wānanga there. And that was Paikea and I did that to honor his story. 

    Paikea toku tipuna, taku tipuna. Paikea taku tipuna. E kī, e kī.

    Paikea my ancestor. Paikea my ancestor. Is that right?

    Heoi anō, kāore ahau i mōhio ko Ahuahu te ingoa o mua mō Mangavae.

    Well, I didn't know Ahuahu was the old name for mangae.

    Ka rawe. 

    Oh wow.

    Āe, ka pai. Kāo, āe. Nō reira, ka uru mātou ki te hītori. Ka nui tonu tā mātou whakauru atu. I werongia tana pāpā e te Kainuku nei, ā, e whakapae ana ahau, nō Rarotonga, ā, ko ngā pūmanawa…Nō reira, ko ngā kōrero katoa i waenganui i a Paikea mā. Nō reira ka tīkina mai ērā waiata e rua ka hanumi ai. Ngā hītori e rua, he tangata, mō te oma toka, mō te hī tawatawa. He aha te ingoa o tana. He wāhi hī ika tōna. Ka puta ia, ā, ka puhia ki tētahi āwha i te wai. Ko te Pipoi taku mōhio, ko te Ripoi, te Pipoi rānei. Ā, nā tēnei, taku mahara ko Kapua Te Rangi nā te mea he tangata tere ki te oma toka, pēnei i a Paikea. Pāpaka. Koirā tana ingoa kārangaranga.

    Oh yeah. No, yeah. So we transport in the history. We transport quite a lot of stuff. His father being challenged by this by Kainuku I think it was, from Rarotonga and just the traits.... So all the kōrero between Paikea and all this. And so there was, to me, there was a.

    So, that basically grabbed all that song and tried to join the two histories, he tangata, mō te oma toka, mō te hī tawatawa.  What's the name of his. He had a fishing ground. He would go out and he got blown away in a storm out on the fishing water. Pipoi, I think or Ripoi, Pipoi. And then because of his, I think Kapua i Te Rangi I think was his name but because he was agile and could fight on the rocks, like a Paikea, crab. That was his nickname. 

    He tangata toa ki te oma toka, ki te hī i tawatawa, i runga i te. Yeah, Paikea taku tipuna. I rēia mai ki…

    He was good at skimming rocks, at fishing tawatawa, on the. Yeah, Paikea, my ancestor, who came…

    Nō reira he whakahōnore i tērā kōrero, engari ko te wheako o te noho ki tētahi tumu kōrero. He whanaunga tata, engari kei a rātou ngā taonga ki te tuku iho, āe…ko te kōrero ka tīmata…

    (ka mōteatea)

    So that was more in honor of that story, but more the experience of being beside a tumu kōrero, very closely related, but they still maintain all the tools for transmission and yeah. kōrero ko timata..... (chants)

    Ā, kei korā ia kei te waiata mai, i te kanikani mai, ka rawe kē hoki! Mō te hunga rangatahi, inā noa ake te rerekē o rātou i ō rātou whanaunga o Te Moananui-a-Kiwa. Haere te…

    And she's over there kei te waiata mai, i te kanikani mai, is unbelievable. See for young people, a lot of them live juxtaposed to their Pacific whanaunga's. Haere te....

    Ko tāku (ka waiata) tōtika mai i reira. (Ka waiata) rongo au, e waiata ana i konei, ki a mātou. Nō reira, nō rātou tātou. Ko rātou ō tātou kiritahi.

    I mean (singing) straight from there. (singing) rongo au, singing it here, to us. So we are from them. Those are our closest relations. 

    So kare ōku mea te wha, toru atu ki roto i ēnā kete, tōia mai nā mea.  

    So I didn’t have anything to reach out into those kits, so we brought in those things.

    Ko te oro. Nō ngā moutere rātou.

    It's around the sounds. So, we were singing around Tamatekapua. Well, they were Islanders. 

    Kae i tipu mai i konei, nō ngā Moutere. 

    They grew up here but they’re from the Islands. 

    Nō reira ko te kimi i ngā mea nō ngā oro moutere me te mea. 

    So it's finding things from the Moutere sound and the thing. 

    Hei tōia mai roto i tātou ma.

    To bring them into us. 

    Ko tēhea tō tino titonga kua titoa e koe?

    What's been your most favorite composition that you've composed?

    Ō, ko āku tino ko ngā hīmene i te nuinga o te wā.

    Oh, mine are usually ngā Hīmene

    Te hono atu ki te atua?

    To connect with God?

    He whakamoemiti tētahi mea nui. Ehara i te taera o nāianei, katoa e whai ana i te ‘hui e, tāiki e’ i ēnei rā. Mō te kura ano i na Ringatū. 1766 ko ngā Pākeha katoa ka tae mai ki konei. Kua puta te reo o te tohunga nei a Te Toheroa. Nā nga ātua Māori I kōrero.

     

    “Tiwha tiwha te po ko te pakerewhā, ko te pakerewhā he atua. Ko Nukutere, ko Nukutere he atua ko te pakerewha, ko te pakerewhā. Me te mea atu ki a Te Kooti, ana “ko te ingoa o to atua ko Tamairurukutia”.

     

    Nā reira kua oti kē te ao tāwhito te tohutohu mai tēnā āhuatanga. No reira ka noho tonu ngā Ringatū I roto I tērā ia. Pai tonu.

    Well, prayer is an important thing. It's not the in thing but everyone is hui e, taiki e these days. But for schooling the Ringatū. 1766 all the Pākeha hadn’t arrived yet. Te Toiroa hadn’t been heard. Something that was said by the Māori Gods.

     

    “Tiwha, tiwha te po ko te pakerewha, ko te pakerewha o tēnei Āriki. Ko Nukutere, ko Nukutere he atua ko te pakerewha, ko te pakerewha. That’s what was told to Te Kooti, “Your Gods name is Tamairurukutia”.

     

    So, the ancient world has already finished directing that sort of thing. So, Ringatū remained in that flow. Quite happily.

    Uncle, e whakapae ana koe mā te haka e puta ai tātou ki te ao, arā, ko te hāereere haere mō te ao?

    Uncle, do you think haka takes us to the world, traveling around the world?

    Āe. Āpaia rā! Kāore anō kia haere mō te wā roa, nā te mea kāore e pai ana ki ahau te noho pereina nui ake i te 6 hāora. Ko ngā haerenga roa. Kua tae ahau ki Hāmoa. Ko te hauora koirā tonu te iho o te ahurei.

    Oh yeah. Yeah, of course. Haven't been on because I actually don't like sitting in a plane more than six hours. So any long trips. I've been on some. I mean, wellbeing at the end is as much around your culture as anything else.  

    And so ko te noho roto i te ao, i whakina mai e ō tipuna ki a koe. Kua tae koe ki te paepae ka taea koe te uru atu i roto i ngā kete i wāiho i ō rātou ao māori, ao te taiao, ao wairua, taonga katoa ēnā mea. Nō reira he wāhanga tēnā. Waiho mā Tuini e kōrero, tō aroha e karere ki te ao, haria te āhua ā te māori, ngā tikanga ā te māori, te aroha ā te māori ki te ao. Tipua he puawai. He rawe taku whanaunga ki te haka.

    And so being in that world, the ancestors reveal these things to you. Once you get to the orator’s bench you can reach into the kete, the world that they left behind; the Māori world, the environment, the spirit world – all of those treasures. And so, that’s part of it. Let Tuini say “your love is a message to the world”. So, take the ways of the Māori, our tikanga, the love to the world, let it grow and flourish. My cousin was a gun haka man.”

    Nehu?

    Burial?

    Nehu, i taku hokitanga tuatahitanga mai nei, he rite ia ki tōna pāpā. Nō reira, i pai te waiora nā. I a koe ka tito, i te wā i a rātou e ora tonu ana, ko te mea tuatahi ko te kimi i ngā tohutohu i ō rātou kanohi. Ngaro ana rātou, kei reira tonu ngā tamariki. Mōhio tonu koe mehemea he pai, ka tū ngā tamariki. Nō reira, mehemea kei te tito ahau ka waiata haere noa ahau, ā, ka whakarongo atu aku mokopuna, ā, kia tū ana ki te tirotiro haere, ō, he pai tonu pea. Kāore e tino pai ki ngā taki. Kāore e kati ana, kāore i hinga ki te aha. Ka mōhio tonu koe ki te rerekētanga i waenga nui i te puoro pouaka whakaata maroke me ngā waiata e mahia mai nei e koe. Nō reira, koirā ā rātou kupu āwhina mai i te waha me te hinengaro tamariki, pakeke anō hoki.

    Nehu, when I first came back, he was as his father was. They haka men, so it was good, Te waiora na, when you compose, when they were alive, my first thing is to see reaction on their faces. When they were gone, there's always the children. You know if something is good, the children will stop. So if I am doing any composes I'll just sing something around and I'll let all my mokopuna's and when they stop looking around, ohh ko pau must be ka pai. Their hinengaro is always open to rhythms. There's no closed or biased to anything. You can tell the difference between the mundane television music and anything else that you're producing. So too, that's their advice from mouths and the minds of babes and from your pakeke.

    Uncle, hei whakamutu, ka pai tō whakatangi mai i tētahi waiata kātahi ka whiua tētahi pātai anō.

    Uncle,hei whakamutunga, can you play us or something and then I'll ask you one more question?

    Whakatikahia mai tēnei. I te kōrero ahau mō te taki, ā, ka tīmata mai ahau i konei ka rere ki tēnei…e rua, e toru pea waiata kua titoa me tēnā wāhanga.

    So, I was talking about rhythms and that I went from here all the way down to a thing in I had this... Actually composed about two or three songs with that bit.

    Rawe, he aha?

    Wow, what?

    Tētahi mō Hone Kī. (ka waiata).

    One for Hone Kī. (singing).

     (ka waiata) Whakaaroharoha ana tērā waiata. (ka waiata).

    I sing water, mixed up. (singing) Bit emotional, that song. (singing).

    Toru ērā waiata.

    Three days singing.

    Te waiata ōrite (e waiata ana).

    The same thing. (singing).

    Pai

    Good.

    Kua roa rawa te kore i waiata. Wareware… Engari koirā te hua o te mahi me te taki. Nō reira, anei tētahi momo rakuraku rerekē anō, he rerekē ngā taramu.

    Oh, long time since I sung it. Wareware... But that's just what you can do with rhythms. So this one here gives you a different type of guitar rereke ano strums rereke.

    Nō reria i runga ano i tērā Uncle. He aha pea ētahi kōrero. 

    So, on that, Uncle, what is your advice?

    E toru ngā kōrero āwhina mā ā tātou tauira, ō tātou kaiako kei waho rā e tūmanako ana kia eke ki ngā taumata teitei o te haka.

    Three pieces of advice that you could give our tauira, our kaiako that are out there who want to aspire to be the best in haka?

    Mehemea mō te tāne, me rite ā-hinengaro nei kia taea te pakaru mai ngā hamuti a Tūmatauenga, mō te haka tērā. Ko te mea kē, ko te nekeneke te whakatinanatanga o te tārai kupu, ā, ko te waiata he mirimiri i ngā kare ā-roto me te horopaki o te mahi. Mō te taha ki te tito, ko te ruku tonu atu, ā, ka whanake mai rātou mehemea he whakatakotoranga ā rātou, he puna hoki, ā, e mārama ana ki te auaha, me te āhua o te hinengaro. Engari, ko te whakahono i te hinengaro, te manawa, me te wairua hoki. Ā, mehemea ka taea ko ngā tikanga, ko ētahi mea e pā ana ki te wehi, ko te whakamataku, te aroha, ko te pōraruraru katoa. Koirā te whai. Ka tū rangatira koe, ka puta atu ngā mea, ka puta ki te manawa me te hinengaro. Ka rongo rātou. Āe, me te hinengaro anō, ka taea te whakakorikori. Kāore ahau i te mōhio mehemea i whakautua tō pātai.

    If it's for the men, it's about being able to mentally get yourself into a position where you break the backside of Tūmatauenga, that’s for the haka. The thing is the movements about poetry in motion and the singing is about massaging the emotions and the context of the… That's in the performance side. In the composition side is to just get into it and they'll develop, if they've got some structures and things they can pull from, and they understand the creative, how the mind works. But this is about the mind, the heart, and the soul being connected up. And if they can, some of the values, some of the things around wehi, a mixture of awe, love, and fear all mixed up. That's what you are trying to thing to people. Ka tū rangatira koe, ka puta atu ngā mea, ka puta to the heart and the subconscious. They'll receive it. Yes, and to the mind, well, you can play gymnastics with it. I don't know if I answered your question.

    Āe, i whakautua. Me ētahi kōrero āwhina ki ō tātou kaiako, ki te āwhina i a rātou ki te whakaako me te arataki?

    Yeah, you did. And advice for our kaiako, to help their tutoring or leading?

    Āe. He mea uaua tērā nō te mea ko te mea e whakatauria ana e koe ko te wāhanga pai, wāhanga kino hoki ko te whakahīhī. Me whakahīhī koe mō te tū, engari me tau tonu ētahi mata o tērā āhuatanga, ki runga i te papa, ā, heke rawa ana anō hoki. Koirā tētahi mata. Engari ko te mea kē… 

    Yeah. I mean, that's a real hard thing because what are you trying to tame is the good and the bad part of it is ego. So, you actually need the ego for the performance, but you got to manage the ego in the other aspects of it, on the stage off the stage. That's one dimension. But the thing is to...

    Kei te whakaata koe i te ahurea me ngā mātāpono o ngā tīpuna, ā, kei reira koe ki te tuku iho i ō rātou whakaaro. He mahi nui. Mō rātou ki te haere mai, ko te mea nui ko te… Kāore rātou e mahi tika, ehara i a rātou te hē, i a koe te hē. Koirā te haepapa kua tuku iho mai ki te manaaki i te tangata. 

    You are there reflecting the culture and the values of your tipuna and you are there around the continuity of their consciousness. That's a big job. For them to come, the main thing is they do what you've. They don't do it right, it's not their fault, your fault. So that's the onus that's left on the manaaki te tangata.

    Ka pai.

    All right.

    Yeah, tiakina te tangata and tiakina ō rātou ego's katoa, te mutunga, te uaua rawa ō tērā mahi. 

    Yes, look after the people and their large egos, at the end of the day, it is a very hard job. 

    Āe, ko te tangata ka ū ki tērā mahi, ka ngāwari tāna kuhu atu ki ngā mahi tōrangapū, ki te whakahaere rānei i a mea kaporeihana. Mōhio tonu ahau.

    Yes, anybody who can go through that, can be in politics or manage any corporation. I know it.

    E runga ano i tērā Uncle tēnā rā koe mō tēnēi wā ki te kōrero mai ki ahau mō tō ao haka, hei tuari ngā kōrero ki a tātou tamariki, mokopuna e whai ana i tēnēi huarahi. I runga ano i tēnā, tēnā rā koe uncle.

    And on that note, Uncle, thank you very much for making yourself available to speak to me today about your ao haka, and for sharing your stories with our children who are pursuing this pathway. So, on that note, thank you, Uncle.

    Thank you.

    Kia ora

    Music starts in background and brings to focus a sign saying “Nau mai, haere mai, you are entering the tribal lands of Te Whānau a Apanui”. Camera then shows image of beach side and water breaking on shore and rocks. Camera then pans across water with rocks and land in the background. Waihau Bay lodge and Waihau Bay store buildings shown as visual then changes by passing a house with mountains in the background. A visual of driving along the coast through trees with the road ahead. Visual then changes to a horse on the side of the road with mountains in the background. Quick visuals of grass and then back to the jetty with a small community of houses in the background. Camera then pans down the jetty with visual change to crossing a bridge then the river with mountains in the background. Images of trees and back to the beach side with a tree and houses in the background before black screen appear with the words “Ministry of education, Te tahuhu o te mātauranga.

    [ Accordion ]

    Birds eye view of a harbour with boats and land on either side with the sun rising in the background. A view of a island in the ocean with a orange glow sky behind it. Close up of waves crashing on the shore with some coastline in the background. A shot of the beach at low tide with a father and son walking in the wet sand with mountain ranges in the distant background. A shot of rocky coastline with 3 people at the edge surf casting into the ocean which leads to a island in the background. A close up on a carving. A pan shot of a Marae, followed by close ups of its carvings then a shot of the carvings entrance to the marae with the marae in the background. Close up images of the entrance carvings. Shots of the iwi waka carving. A shot of the harbour again where you can see boats and houses in the distance. A standalone giant rock with a sculpture of a women at the top of it looking out to the ocean which is in the background. Then a further away shot of the same image which shows more of the back the giant rock sits on. Ngāti Awa appears on the screen as the last image fades to black and then Te Ao Haka pans from the left onto the screen. 

    A haka is performed by both interviewees Edward and Helene Te Moana. Expressing their emotion through waiata with Ihi, wehi and wana.

    Te Reo Māori

    English

    Kei aku manu ariki whakataka pōkai, koutou i topa iho i te tīkokenga o te rangi, nau mai,  whakatau hā ki tēnei whare kōrero, otirā ki tēnei punua pāoho o te ao haka. Ko Te Ōkiwa McLean tēnei e mihi atu nei, nau mai, e rarau! I te rā nei ka rukutia e tātou ngā rētōtanga, otirā, ka pikitia e tātou ngā rangi whāwhātanga o tēnei mea te haka. Kia tahuri ake tātou ki ngā manuhiri tūārangi, ā, kua hou mai nei ki te paepae kōrero. Kei aku rangatira, kei aku kahi, kei aku whanaunga, ā, tēnā whakamāramatia atu ki te iwi ko wai kōrua, ko wai, nō hea kōrua?

    To my noble travelling birds who have soared in today, I welcome you, I welcome you unto this school of learning, this platform of te ao haka. My name is Te Okiwa McLean, and welcome. Today we will delve into the depths and climb the highest skies of haka. Let us now turn to our guests who have arrived today. To the esteemed, my cuzzies, my relations, can you let us all know who you both are and where you are from?

    Tēnā koutou katoa, ko Edward Te Waoriki Rēhita Te Moana tōku ingoa, he uri ahau nō roto o Tūhoe me Te Whānau a Apanui.

    Greetings, my name is Edward Te Waoriki Rēhita Te Moana, I am a descendant of Tūhoe and Te Whānau a Apanui.

    Kia ora, ko Helene Reremoana Na ahau, he uri ahau nō Ngāti Awa, Te Whānau a Apanui, me Ngāi Tūhoe hoki.

    Greetings. I am Helene Te (Moana), I am a descendant of Ngāti Awa, Te Whānau a Apanui and Ngāi Tūhoe.

    Nau mai haere mai e ngā uri ki tēnei paepae kōrero. Heoi anō, ki te taha whatukura, Edward, i tīmata mai i ō, he aha te orokohanga mai o tō ao haka?

    Greetings to you both and welcome to this platform. Let's start with the male side, Edward, where did your ao haka journey begin?

    Me kī, i tīmata ngā mahi kapa haka i taku kōhanga reo, i, me kī, ko aku kuia koroua i whakaako ki a mātou ngā tikanga, te reo, ngā karakia, tae noa ki ngā mahi kapa haka. Me kī, koirā te wa i ako mātou me pēhea te mahi i ngā mahi wiri, takahi, te tū o Tūhoe. Tae noa ki roto i ngā kura tuatahi, pērā ki Te Kura o Tāneatua, Te Wharekura o Rūātoki, me Te Kura o Tāwera. I haere au ki ērā kura whakaako ai i aku pakeke. Nā reira, koirā te tīmatanga o taku ao haka, te ako i ngā tikanga o Tūhoe, o Tūhoe.

    Let me say that my kapa haka journey started at kōhanga reo, where our elders taught us tikanga, the language, karakia and kapa haka. That’s where we learnt how to wiri, takahe and the stance of Tūhoe. And it was the same at primary, at Te Kura o Tāneatua, Te Wharekura o Rūātoki and Te Kura o Tāwera. I went to those schools and learnt of our elders. That’s where my ao haka journey started and also where I learnt the tikanga of Tūhoe.

    Tika. Ki a koe hoki e te kahi, Helene,

    Too good. What about you cousin, Helene,

    I tīmata tō ao haka i hea?

    Where did your haka journey start?

    Ki taku mōhio, e waru tau taku pakeke. I haria ahau e taku koroua, i nō Apanui, rāua ko taku kuia, ki Apanui. Nā, ka kura au i Omaio Kura i ngā tau 96, 97 hoki, e rua tau i reira. Ka whai wāhi atu ahau ki te kapa haka, ko taku whakataetae tuatahi ko te Delamere Cup. Koinā, ki taku mōhio, taku wheako tuatahi i te ao haka.

    Back when I was, that I can remember, I was eight years old. My koroua, on my Apanui side and my kuia took me back with them to Te Whānau a Apanui. So I went to kura there at Omaio kura, which was in 1996 and 1997, 2 years there. And I joined the kapa haka team and my first competition was the Delamere Cup. And that was the first time I've ever experienced haka, that I can remember.

    Edward,

    And Edward,

    Kia kōrero tāua mō te, ngā whakataetae tuatahi i whai wāhi atu ai koe, otirā, kōrua tahi. Ā, he aha ngā maharatanga tuatahi mōu, mō tēnei mea, taonga, te haka?

     

    Let's talk about the first competition you were in, both of you. What were your early memories about this treasure of ours, about haka?

    Tētahi whakataetae, me kī, i maumahara tonu au, tētahi o ngā Rangitaiki i konei, i tū ki Whakatāne, ko tētahi o ngā kaihaka, me kī, ko taku tuakana, a Rapaera tērā, engari i whawhai māua i runga i te atamira. Nā reira, i mōhio te ao whānui ki a māua anō, nā reira koirā tētahi tūnga pai ki ahau. Nā te mea he maha ngā katakata, ngā kōrero pahupahu mō taua tū.

    One of the competitions I still remember was one of the Rangitaiki ones, it was in Whakatāne, one of the other kaihaka was my senior, Rapaera, we ended up fighting on stage. The whole world knew of us after that, that’s what makes that stand a memorable one for me. There were heaps of laughs and banter that eventuated from that.

    Tika. Heoi anō, kia kōrero whakataetae tāua, he aha te mea nui o tēnei mea te whakataetae me te wairua whakangahau?

    You bet. Let us, however, talk about competition. What do you think is the main thing about competition and the entertainment factor?

    Ko te ao whakangahau mō ngā mahi kapa haka, pai ki ahau tērā, nā te mea ka taea e koe, kāre he ture, kāre he tikanga, me tū noa iho ki te ngahau. Engari, ki te taha whakataetae, he maha ngā ture me whai te rōpū, nā reira ka puta mai ngā taniwha o tērā ao, o te whakataetae. Koirā te tino aronga o ngā mahi mō taua ao, te whakataetae.

    The entertainment factor of kapa haka appeals to me a lot because you can do what you like, no rules, no restrictions, you just stand and entertain. Competition on the other hand is a different beast, there are a lot of rules that a group must abide by, and that’s where you see the sharks come out, in that competition world. That’s the main focus in that world, competition.

    Nā, i whakapakeketia mai kōrua,

     

    i te rētōtanga o ngā mahi kapa haka. Kōrerotia mai, Helene, mō ngā rā o mua. He aha ō maharatanga tōmua o te kapa haka?

     you were both brought up in the richness of kapa haka. Speak us through, Helene, some of your early days. What were your fond early memories of kapa haka?

    Tekau mā tahi tau taku pakeke, i te kura o Tāneatua, ka kōwhiria ko au hei tātaki i te kapa haka i Wīwī. Ko te kaupapa i reira ko te hui taketake ā-ao. I haere atu mātou mō tētahi marama ki te mahi kapa haka. Ngā kura o Tāneatua me Pāroa, mō ngā tau e rua. I rawe tērā. Koinā te tīmatanga o aku hāereere mahi kapa haka. 2000 te tau.

    Back when I was 11 years old, we are talking 11 now, at Tāneatua kura, and I was chosen to lead the kapa haka team and take them to France. And the kaupapa over there was the world indigenous conference. And we went there for a whole month just performing kapa haka, Tāneatua kura and Pāroa kura, actually for two years. So, that was awesome. That was the beginning of traveling doing kapa haka for me back then. 2000, I think it was, yeah.

    Kia ū tātou ki ngā wheako me te haere ki tāwāhi mā te mahi kapa haka. He aha ētahi o ngā wāhi kua tae atu ai kōrua nā ngā mahi kapa haka, ā, i pēhea ki te hunga mātakitaki?

    Let's stick with the experiences and the travel overseas through kapa haka through the art form. Where are some of the places kapa haka has taken you guys and how was it received by people overseas?

    Ko te whiwhi nui o te haere me te mahi kapa haka, ko te whakaatu i tō tātou ahurea. Nō mātou te whiwhi ko tā mātou haerenga tuatahi ko Wīwī. I haere hoki ahau ki Wīwī i te tau i muri mai i a Helene mō taua kaupapa tonu. I reira ka haere mātou ki Hapāni me Haina, ki Kotimana, Hawaii me te Merrie Monarch. Koinā ngā hua, i tua atu i te whakaatu i ngā ahurea me ngā reo, me te whai hononga anō ki ngā whanaunga o Te Moana Nui a Kiwa. I tipu hoki ko te māiatanga, ā-kaihaka nei, nā te tū puta noa i te ao.

    The privileges, I guess, of traveling performing kapa haka is to get to share our culture. So we were lucky enough our first trip was overseas in France. And I went the year after Helene and we went to France for the indigenous sharing cultures. And I think from there it started off our journey to go to Japan and China, Scotland, Hawaii, Merrie Monarch. So I guess for us those were the perks, but also that sharing cultures and reo and just connecting with our Polynesian relatives from Te Moana Nui a Kiwa. And I guess that's where sort of grew our confidence as well as performers to share our skills across the world.

    I pēhea ki te hunga mātakitaki?

    And how did they receive it, given that?

    Kāre rātou e kōrero i te reo, kāre i te mōhio ki te reo, ki ā tātou tikanga. Pēhea tā rātou rongo i te kaupapa o te haka?

    They don’t speak our language, they don’t know our language or our tikanga. How did they hear about haka?

    Ko tētahi o ngā maharatanga, ko tā mātou noho i Haina mō ngā marama e rua me te hāwhe, i hātakēhi tērā nātemea i tino ngākaunui ngā tāngata o Haina ki te kapa haka ahakoa rātou kāore i te mōhio ki ngā kōrero, ka mihi tonu, ka whakamānawa mai ki te ahurea Māori pēnei i Kotimana.

    Well I guess, one memory is being in China for two and a half months was that funny, because the Chinese people, they just love kapa haka and even though they don't know what we're just saying, they show us their gratitude and the appreciation of Māori culture like Scotland.

    Āe, Kotimana, koia tētahi o ngā haerenga mīharo rawa atu. Koinā tētahi o aku tino haerenga. Ko tētahi o ngā āhuatanga hātakēhi i puta i reira, i te tatari mātou mō tētahi tēkehi, i taua wā rā kātahi anō ka puta te waiata a Stan Walker, a Aotearoa, ā, nō mātou e tatari ana, ka waiata tahi mātou i te waiata rā, me te aha, i mīharo pai te hunga mātakitaki. I mau rātou, ka mutu, i ohorere i te pai. He tauhou tērā ki a rātou, me te kaha hoki o tā mātou karawhiu i te waiata.

    Yes, Scotland was, That has to be one of the best trips I've ever been on. And one of the funny things that happened there was we were all waiting for a taxi to go back to our hostel and everyone just busted out the waiata Aotearoa just came out from Stan Walker and everyone just busted it out and we were waiting for our taxi and you should have seen the public. They were just all locked and they were just, "Wow." They just couldn't believe it, that we were singing that and singing it so loud.

    Kāti, i ngā wai o tāwāhi ki ngā wai o te kāinga, me kī,

    Going from foreign waters to the home waters here in Aotearoa, I guess, 

    I whakatipuria kōrua i roto i ngā mātauranga o te haka, engari āe, kōrero mai mō ngā wā i uru atu ai kōrua ki tēnei, ki ngā kapa haka pakeke. Ko wai ērā kapa, i tīmata tērā i hea?

    You were both brought up in the world of haka, so talk to me a bit about when you both entered the realm of senior kapa haka. What kapa were they and when was that?

    I tīmata ahau i roto i Te Kapa Haka o Te Karu i te tau 2005, engari i mua i tērā, ko au tētahi o ngā tamariki i roto i ngā rārangi e mahi haka ana, nā te mea kāre ētahi o ngā kaihaka i roto i te rōpū, kua wehe ki te tāone, nā reira ko au tērā e whai tērā tūranga. Nā ngā kōrero o Nana, o Nannny Julie, me kī-

    I started in Te Kapa Haka o Te Karu in 2005, but before that I was just one of the kids doing haka in the lines for those that were absent, who may have shot off to town, that was my job. That’s what we were told by Nana, Nanny Julie,

    Kāore he kōwhiringa. Ka whitu tau, ka waru tau rānei tō pakeke, me tū. Tērā tērā, ko taku tū tuatahi mō Te Rōpū Kaha Haka o Te Karu i Te Papaioeia i te tau 2005.

    We really didn't have a choice. So you either get in line when you were about seven, eight years old. But 2005 was my first stand with Te Rōpū Kapa Haka Te Karu in Palmerston North.

    A koe kahi, he aha tō rōpū pakeke tuatahi?

    What about you kahi, which adult group did you join first?

    Āe, e ōrite ana māua ko taku tungāne. I tīmata ahau i Te Karu me Nanny Julie, i tō taku pāpā taha, i tō Maaka Te Moana, ā, ko taku tū tuatahi me Te Karu i Te Papaioeia hoki.

    Yes, the same with my brother. I started at Te Karu as well with Nanny Julie and alongside my dad Maaka Te Moana, and my first Matatini as well with Te Karu back in Palmerston North, I think it was as well.

    I pēhea tērā? Tōna 13 tau noa iho tō pakeke.

    And what was that like you were literally, I think you might have been 13.

    Āe, he taiohi tonu.

    Yeah, teenagers. Well,

    I mataku rānei?

    Well, was it intimidating?

    Āe. Tuatahi i whai wāhi atu ahau ki te tīma, he mea nui tērā. Tuarua, ko au tētahi o roto i te takitoru e karawhiu ana i tētahi wāhanga o te waiata tira, nō reira i riro mā mātou e wāhi ia tū. I tū mātou i mua i te Waka Huia, ka mutu, ānō he hōia nō Tūhoe te tū. Ka tū ki runga i te atamira, tōna 5,000 ngā tāngata e mātakitaki ana. Me te aha, he taiohi tonu, koi hoki te Matatini, tētahi o aku whāinga nō mai anō, nō taku mātaki i aku iho pūmanawa me ōku koroua e haka ana. He mataku te tū i te tīmatanga, engari ka waia haere, ka māmā haere. Engari pai tērā tū i taua tau, 2005.

    Yes. Well first, so I made the group, so that was, We were happy. And then the second thing is, I was part of a trio as well for the coral and we were the first group up there ia tū. And we were before Waka Huia and we performed like we were soldiers from Tūhoe. And when we got on stage we spun around and there were like 5,000 people. And being young and a Matatini, because I've always admired to be in a team for Matatini watching my idols and koroua's careers before me. And to be on that stage was a bit of a scary moment at first, but then once we sort of got into the groove things, the confidence grew back. So yeah. Engari pai tērā tū i taua tau, 2005.

    Ina hea whakatauhia e kōrua me wehe, i Te Kapa Haka o Te Karu, i roto i te tū a Tūhoe, ki tō kōrua taha i roto o Te Whānau a Apanui? Tēnā kōrerotia mai.

    Mm-hmm. When did you guys make the transition to leave, I guess Te Kapa Haka o Te Karu, i roto i te tū a Tūhoe to move to your other side i roto o Te Whānau a Apanui? Talk us through that.

    Ko au te tangata i tipu pōro tuatahi me te kī, “me hoki atu ahau ki te taha o taku māmā, ki Omaio,” engari arā ētahi tikanga i whāia. I mate ahau ki te kōrero ki taku kuia i te tuatahi, ā, he maha ā māua wānanga, he nui ngā kōrero i runga i te waea, ā, i taua wā, i muri mai i te Matatini i Tauranga 2009, i rite ahau ki te whanake i aku pūkenga me te ako i taku taha Apanui. Nō reira ka hui tahi mātou ko Nanny Julie me taku pāpā, ā, ko taku tū tuatahi mō Apanui i te tau 2018 ki Tōrere. I muri mai i tērā tau, nāku tēnei i tō atu. Ka mea atu ahau, “hei, hoki mai ki te kāinga. Hoki mai ki Apanui, te wāhi i tipu ai koe.” Nātemea i wehe māua i mua rā. Nā ngā kuia me ngā koroua o Apanui ia i whakapakeke, nā ngā kuia me ngā koroua o Tūhoe ahau i whakapakeke. I te mutunga iho i hono anō māua, kātahi ka tīmata tā māua haerenga me Apanui.

    Well, I was the one that grew my pōro first and I said, "Right, I need to go back to my mother's side from Omaio," but there was a bit of a process. I had to go through my kuia first and we had wānanga’s, we had phone calls and I felt at the time after 2009 Matatini and Tauranga, I felt at the time I needed to grow in wanting new skills and wanting to learn my taha Apanui. So I had hui with Nanny Julie and my father and pretty much from there I just took off and went to perform my first year with Apanui in 2018 ki Tōrere. After that stand, and then I sort of dragged this one along. I said, "Hey, come home. Come back to Apanui where you grew up." Because before we were actually split. She grew up with her kuia, our kuia and korouadown the coast and I grew up with my kuia and koroua from the bush. And we sort of just came back together and that's when our journey started coming together with Apanui.

    I pēhea tērā whakawhitinga, ngā taera, te urutau, te wehe i te tū a Tūhoe, he whakawiri, he kaitangata, ki tētahi tū tau? Te tū a Te Whānau a Apanui. I pēhea tērā, te tīni i tō tāera?

    What was the transition like, in terms of styles, adapting, leaving the Tūhoe stance, ruthless, rugged and raw, going to much more of an elegant stance? Te tū a Te Whānau a Apanui. What was that like, changing your style?

    I mataku ahau i te tīmatanga, engari i kite au i ngā tāngata tika hei āwhina i a au, ā koirā taku mahi, he tuku pātai ki a rātou. I kotahi atu ahau ki ngā pou me te pātai atu, “tēnā koe mātaki mai i a au? He aha aku mahi hē?” Nātemea kua tae atu ahau i tētahi wāhi kōrero pono, pono rawa atu. He rerekē tēnei wāhi. Ko KK tōna ingoa. I haramai ia ki te āwhina i a au. Hei tāna, i a au kē, nātemea ko au te tauira tere katoa ki te ako i te tū. Whakahīhī ana ahau i tērā kōrero āna, ā, i whai māiatanga ahau i tērā, harikoa ana ahau kei konei ahau.

    At first I was nervous and when I got there, I observed and I already could pick up which people to go to ask for help and that's what I did. I went straight to the guns and ask them, "Can you watch me? What am I doing wrong?" Because I've come from another area that's just straight up and down. And this area is very different. So yep. And her name was KK. She came over and assisted me. And from there she said it was always in me, because I was the quickest kaihaka that she's taught that got the stance, just like that. So yeah, I was very proud of myself and made me more confident and happy to be there.

    Mm-hmm.  Kia kōrero tāua mō ngā, te puta atu i te rohe pōtae o Ngāi Tūhoe, arā, i kī rā koe, you mentioned before leaving the nest to grow, to expand your skills and capacity. I guess you know. Kōrerotia mai tērā, te puta atu i te rohe kia whai pūkenga rau, arā, te whakarite rangi, te purei i te kitā, me te whakahoki mai i ērā mātauranga ki ngā tamariki rangatahi o Tūhoe. 

    Let’s talk about leaving the region of Tūhoe, you mentioned before leaving the nest to grow, to expand your skills and capacity. I guess you know. Let’s talk about that, leaving the nest to gain more knowledge, to compose tunes, to play the guitar and to return all of that knowledge to the children of Tūhoe.

    Ki ahau nei, nā te mea, i tipu ake au i roto i ngā mahi katoa o Tūhoe, ngā karakia, ngā tikanga, te tū o Tūhoe, ngā waiata, ngā mōteatea, ngā kapa haka, ngā wiri, ngā takahi, 

    For me, because I grew up amongst all of that in Tūhoe, the karakia, the tikanga, the Tūhoe stance, the mōteatea, the kapa haka, the wiri, the takahi, all that.

    I taua wā, i hiahia ahau ki te whanake i aku pūkenga kapa haka, te tū, te waiata, ngā rangi hoki, nātemea i te waihanga waiata ahau i taua wā, ko taku whai he whakapakari ake i ērā āhuatanga. Nā whai anō i haere ai ahau ki Apanui, ki te ako i ngā tautōhito, i a Uncle Rick mā. Auntie Hani hoki, te māmā o Masie. Kātahi a Tama ka peka mai. Ko te ako i ēnei momo tāngata pūkenga rau. Ko Auntie Blithe hoki tētahi. Ki a au nei, he pēnei i te whakauru ki roto kōhua, ka whakaranua, ka whakahokia ai ki te kāinga, ki ngā rōpū o konei.

    all that. So I felt at the time that I now want to grow my skills in performance or with vocals or tunes, because I was composing myself and sort of wanted to grow in that area. So going to Apanui learning from the best from Uncle Rick. Even Auntie Hani, te māmā o Masie. And Tama came along. So just learning from those sort people with those skills. Auntie Blithe, she was another one, Auntie Pixie and Uncle Khan. That's just learning those skills. I call it putting it in a pot, mixing it up and then I bring it back home and I share it with our rōpūs back here.

    Koinā taku ara ako i Apanui me te whakahoki mai hei whāngai ki ngā uri o konei. Ko ngā mahi māmā pēnei i te waiata tika. Mātou o Tūhoe, kua waia ki te waiata mō te hemo tonu atu. Ehara i te mea he tikanga ka whāia, he tuku noa. He pai te whakauru tikanga waiata hoki.

    So I guess that's my cycle of learning from Apanui was bringing them back and sharing what I could for our people here. And it's basic things like how to sing properly. Because us from Tūhoe, we like to just scream our lungs. No technical things, it's just go for it. But where the technical stuff comes in as good too.

    Tika. kia kōrero tonu tāua mō tēnei mea, te tito, me te whai i ērā rautaki. He aha tō tāera tito?

    Agreed. Let’s continue to talk about composition and your strategies. What is your style of composition?

    Ki ahau nei, 

    For me, 

    Ko te taha auaha taku tino aronga. He rawe ki a au te taha auaha, ā-waiata, ā-oro hoki, ko tāku he kohi i ngā pūkenga katoa kua ākona i te momo pēnei i a koroua Napo, Auntie Annette, Uncle Tabs me Uncle Rick hoki, ka whakauru ai ki roto i tētahi kōhua, ka whakaranua kia puāwai mai ai ko tētahi hua i ahu mai i a au. Koinā tāku e whai nei.

    because my purpose in doing what I love to do is being creative. And I like to be creative within my music, my tune and, like I said, bringing all the skills that I've been taught from people like te koroua Ngapo, Auntie Annette, Uncle Tabs and Uncle Rick and just bringing all their skills and just putting it in a pot and mixing it up and trying to make it my own. And that's pretty much how I strive to come up with my product.

    Ka mutu, he hoa haere kōrua. Ahakoa haere ai a Edward ki hea, ka kitea ko koe Helene.

    And you two are a one, two punch. Wherever Edwards goes, you also follow Helene.

    Ahakoa haere ai a Edward ki hea, ka kitea ko koe Helene. I te āhua ki ngā mahi whakaako, i tīmata ērā mahi i hea, ā, he aha tō tāera whakaako?

     Wherever Edward goes, you are right next to him, I guess. You know, in terms of tutorship, when did that all start for you and what is your style of tutorship?

    E aua hoki, engari i whakaako tahi mātou ko taku parata, ko Takareime Naomi. Kāore aku kawatau, nātemea he kaiako iti te kupu ahau, ko aku kīanga kē te kaiwhakaatu. He rawe. He pai te nohotahi ki ngā tamariki me te kite i ngā āhuatanga hei whakapai ake mā rātou. He aha tāku hei āwhina i a rātou, ko tēnei rānei, ko te nekehanga o te tinana. Ko au tērā, te nekehanga o te tinana, te mata, te āhua o te tangata. Koirā taku aronga.

    I can't remember what year it was I started tutoring, but I tutored alongside my brother, Takarei and Naomi. I don't know what to expect really, because for me I'm the tutor that doesn't say much, but I will show it expression-wise. It was really great. It was good to be around the kids and see what they needed to work on and things like that. What I can do to better them, whether it was this, the moving of the body. I'm about body language, facial expressions, and appearance. Yeah, I'm more about that.

    Pēhea koe?

    And you?

    I tū māua ko Rapaera hei kaiako i taku taitamarikitanga, tōna ono, whitu tau rānei taku pakeke, ko māua ngā kaiako o Te Tira Hou, he kapa ahurei, ā, i whakahaua māua e ngā kuia me ngā koroua, ko tā rātou, “e tama, māu e whakatau ko wai ka uru ki te tīma. Tēnā, tēnā me tēnā.” I tīmata i reira, ngā pūkenga tūāpapa. Kātahi anō ahau ka puta i te kura tuatahi. Ā, ka whakaako ahau i taku tuahine, he kaihaka hoki a ia. Tekau mā rua tau taku pakeke ka whakaako ahau i te taha o ōku mātua.

    I pretty much tutored when I was six, seven years old alongside Rapaera and we were actually the tutors of Te Tira Hou one of our ahurei teams and we were put on the spotlight and our kuia and koroua would tell us, "Okay, boy who should be in and out? That one, that one, that one." So pretty much that's where it started with those basic skills. And then I had just finished primary school. And then I went tutoring for my sister, because our younger sister she's the kaihaka herself. So we tutored alongside our parents from, I was about 12.

    Kātahi ka piki ki te kura tuarua, he kaihaka mātou, he kaiako hoki i te taha o ōku mātua. Mutu ana te kura tuarua ka hoki mātou ki te whāngai i ngā mōhiotanga ki te kura, hei whakahoki i te aroha ki ngā kaiako me te kura i poipoi i a mātou. Kātahi ka piki ki ngā kapa pakeke, pēnei i Te Kapa o Tāwera, he whāngai i ngā mōhiotanga me ngā pūkenga nā ngā kuia me ngā koroua i homai.

    And from then we went into high school and then as we were performing in high school, we were actually tutoring as well alongside our parents. And then when we finished high school, we went back to share our knowledge back to our high school, just to share appreciation to our kaiako and to their kura who looked after us for those years. And then we moved on and then we went into adulthood, which was now we were Te Kapa Haka o Tāwera and sharing our knowledge and our skills that were booked out from our kuia and koroua.

    Kia noho tonu ki Te Kapa Haka o Tāwera me Te Hui Ahurei o Tūhoe, he aha rā ia te hirahiratanga o taua kaupapa rā?

    Mm-hmm. And sticking with Tāwera Kapa Haka and Te Hui Ahurei o Tūhoe, let's talk about the significance of our Tūhoe ahurei festival.

    Ko kōrua ngā kawhakahaere o Te Kapa Haka o Tāwera, kua puta atu koe ki te whai pūkenga, ki hea tāngia ai te rārangi i waenga i te taha auaha me te taha tikanga?

    You two are the leaders of Tāwera Kapa Haka, you have both attained knowledge from outside the region, where do you draw the line between creativity and tikanga?

    Ki hea tāngia ai te rārangi i waenga i te taha auaha me te taha tikanga?

    Where do you draw the line in terms of creativity and tikanga?[1] 

    He uaua tērā i ōna wā, heoi anō mōku ake, mēnā he rakuraku i roto i te waiata, he āhuatanga o nāianei tērā. Ka uru mai te taha auaha i roto i ngā mahi o nāianei, pēnei i te waiata ā-ringa, te poi, te whakawātea me te whakaeke. Ka tāngia i reira te rārangi, kia uru mai ko ngā mahi tuku iho, pēnei i Te Pūru, te wero, te karanga, te haka rānei, hei reira mōhio ai mātou “kia Tūhoe anake ngā ringa, te tū, te takahi, te wiri, ngā reo, te whakahua." Katoa ērā āhutanga, me te aha, he uaua i ōna wā mō te hunga ka puta i te rohe ki te whai mōhiotanga i te mea ka tātāhia mātou, ehara i te mea nō Tūhoe anake mātou, engari ka puta ngā kōrero e mea ana “Nō Apanui rāua”, māmā noa iho te whakatika mā te kī “e hē, nō Tūhoe hoki.” Koinā te ātaahuatanga o te ahurei, he whakatangata whenua i a mātou, ka hoki mai ki te kāinga mō te reo, he rerekē te reo o waho. Mā te hoki mai ki ngā karakia, ko te hāhi tētahi o ngā kaupapa matua.

    Yeah, it can be tricky, but for me, when we do any items with a guitar that's contemporary. So that's where the creativity comes in with contemporary, with waiata ā-ringa, poi, whakawātea,whakaeke.  And I think that's where we draw the line and it stops there, because when we have our traditional items like Te Pūru or the Wero, the karanga, and haka, when we bring those elements in that's where we know, "Okay, we're Tūhoe anake ngā ringa, te tū, te takahi, te wiri, ngā reo, te whakahua." So all those things, I guess, it can be tricky for those of us who have traveled out to gain skill or knowledge and come back to our iwi, because that stereotype starts to come in, because we are not only from Tūhoe, but we are the faces of Apanui now and sort of being stereotyped as “Oh, nō Apanui rāua”, but we had to sort of say, "No, nō Tūhoe too." But the beauty of the ahurei, is it grounds us, it grounds us coming back, hoki mai ki te kāinga to really especially mō te reo, because he rerekē te reo o waho. So by coming back to do karakia, our hāhi is the main one to come back from practices.

    Noho tonu i ngā mahi whakahaere haka, kua 3-4 tau pea koe i roto i te moana o Tauranga e whakangungu ana i Te Kapa Haka o Te Maro ka tahi, ka rua, ko Te Kapa Haka o Te Tauranga o Ngā Waka.

    Sticking with tutoring, you have been in Tauranga for about 3-4years now tutoring Te Kapa Haka o Te Maro and Te Kapa Haka o Te Tauranga o Ngā Waka.

    I pēhea te kuhu atu ki rohe kē whakaako ai?

    I guess, what was it like going into another rohe to teach, not even your rohe?

    I pēhea tērā wheako o te whakahaere i waho atu i te rohe pōtae?

    What was that experience like?

    I te tau tuatahi i haere ahau he uaua, cause he tino tūturu a Tauranga moana ki a rātou anō, and, e toru ngā iwi hoki i roto o Tauranga, so he tū tā rātou.

    It was hard in my first year because Tauranga were staunch to their own, and there are three iwi in Tauranga, and they have their own stand.

    Ko te haere ki reira me tētahi aronga mōku, arā te whakatairanga i te kapa haka, kaua hei mahi noa iho, engari hei kaingākau. Mōku ake, i uaua i ōna wā te uru ki rohe kē ki te whakaako, engari ka whakapono mai te iwi ki a au me āku mahi, ka whakaae rātou kia whakaako ahau i ngā tamariki, ka whakaae hoki rātou kia āwhina ahau i ngā pakeke, i a Ngāti Ranginui hoki, i roto i aua mahi rā. I tīni taku aronga i te mea he kura auraki a Te Whānau o te Maro. Hei tā te nuinga, kāre ngā kura auraki i te mōhio ki ngā mahi haka. Ko taku aronga ko te tohe i taua whakaaro rā. Ka tipu ngā pūkenga, ka tipu hoki te hiakai mō te kapa, ā, tōnui ana ngā mahi haka i Tauranga ināianei. 

     So I think going there with a purpose for myself is to preach kapa haka, as it's not only a job, but it's our passion. And for me was to build my own skills as a kapa haka tutor within another rohe was a bit of a, Yeah, was trick at times, but I think once that gained a trust in what I was doing and they knew my purpose of what I was doing, they sort of allowed me to help tutor the tamariki, as well as the adults Ngāti Ranginui as well, wanting my support and help in that area. But yeah, it gets tricky. But I guess my purpose changed, because we have a kura auraki, Te Whānau o te Maro. We are the kura auraki. And I think for all these years mainstream schools have been targeted as a, kāre rātou i te mōhio ki ngā mahi haka. So my purpose was to prove te ao Māori otherwise. And as the skills started growing, the hunger of kapa haka started coming in and then now it's striving in Tauranga now.

    Ko wai ō kōrua tino iho pūmanawa, te hunga whakapakeke i a kōrua i roto i te ao kapa haka?

    And who would be your guys biggest role models and instrumental figures who brought you up in te ao kapa haka?

    Mōku ake, ko taku kuia, ko Turuhira Hare, Nāna māua ko taku pāpā, ko Maaka Te Moana, i whakatūtaki ki ngā mahi nei. E mahara tonu ana ki a Koro Huerangi, Uncle Boy, Te Rurehe Rangihau. A Uncle Rick anō hoki, rāua ko Aunti Keikei. I whai wāhi hoki ahau ki tētahi o ngā haerenga a Waka Huia, nō reira i ako hoki ahau i te taha o Tapeta rāua ko Auntie Annette Wehi. He ātaahua hoki tērā. He nui aku iho pūmanawa i roto i ngā tau, nōku te whiwhi kua mahi tahi mātou. He mīharo tērā.

    For me, my one would be my kuia, Turuhira Hare, because that's where it all started with me and my dad Maaka Te Moana. I remember Koro Huerangi little parts of him, Uncle Boy, Te Rurehe Rangihau. And then you got Uncle Rick that I've learned from, Auntie Keikei. Then I went on the trip with Waka Huia, so I got to experience uncle Tapeta and Auntie Annette Wehi. That was beautiful too. So yeah, I've had a few idols along the way and got to meet and travel with them. So that was cool.

    Ko wai ō pou whirinaki, ō poutiriao i whakaaweawe i a koe i roto i ēnei mahi a Hine-te-Rēhia rāua ko Tānerore?

    Who are your idols, the ones who inspired you to pursue kapa haka?

    Ki ahau nei, he maha, he maha. Engari, ko Nanny Julie tērā ki te taha wairua, te whakapono, ngā tikanga, koirā,

    I have a few. But Nanny Julie standouts, she covered the spiritual, the holistic and the tikanga dynamics.

    Koia rā taku whāinga. Me Uncle Rick,

     That's why she's one of mine, who I aspire to be like her. Uncle Rick, 

    ki te tū o  Apanui, te whakaako ngāwari nei, 

    On my Apanui side, with a gentle approach to tutoring,

    Ko ia hoki tētahi. Me te puta atu, pēnei i ngā kōrero a Helene, ki te taha o Uncle Taps me Te Waka Huia. Kua roa rātou e noho ana hei tauira pai.

    so he was another one. And then going out and, like Helene said, with Uncle Taps and Te Waka Huia. They've always been there.

     

    Ko taku moemoeā ko te tūtaki ki a rātou, me te aha i ao tērā.

    My dream is to be with them and meet them and I did. And yeah.

    Nātemea ko Koro Pani tō rātou koroua, koia hoki tō mātou koroua. Mahara pai ahau ki taku kōrero ki a Aunti Angie, ki a Mokotini mā, i te tangihanga, “kei te mahara rānei koutou ki a au? Ko au taua tamaiti omaoma haere i te whare o koroua i Tāmakimakaurau.” He mea nui te kite ā-kanohi atu i a rātou i te whare o Koro Pani, nōku e tamariki ana. I whakaawe rātou i a mātou ki te whai i tā rātou tauira. Me te hunga pēnei i tō mātou whanaunga, i a Kaha Te Wehi, he pai mō te reo i roto i te kapa haka me ngā tikanga. A Tāmati hoki. He whānau haka mātou. Koinā pea te take, engari he āwhina nui te puta atu i te rohe ako ai, me te mahitahi ki aua iho pūmanawa rā.

    Because Koro Pani was their koroua and who was our koroua too. So I remember telling Auntie Angie and Mokotini and them at the tangihanga, "Hey, do you remember me? Because I used to be that tamariki running around in Auckland at the koroua’s house." So just seeing them visually was, back then when we were kids at Koro Pani’s. They made us inspire them to be like them. And like people like our cousin Kaha Te Wehi, pai mō te reo when it comes to kapa haka and ngā tikanga, but these heaps. Tāmati. Because our whanau is very haka. I think that's why, but going out of the rohe helped open up our eyes a bit and working now with those people and who we looked up to.

    Āe e kitea ana. He whānui, he whāroa tō kōrua huarahi haka. He rangatira, he kaiako haka kōrua tahi.

    Yeah, and it's evident. Your fullas haka journey has come from as long and broad, I guess. And you're both leaders and tutors of kapa. 

    He aha ngā pūkenga me ngā pūmanawa me mau i te kaitātaki tāne, wahine hoki. 

    What are some of the qualities that male and female leaders need to have?

    He aha ngā kounga o te kaitātaki?

    What qualities should leaders hold in kapa haka?[2] 

    Ki ahau nei, mō te tāne, me kī ko ia te kaitiaki, me tiaki i tana rōpū, me tiaki i tana hoa, te kaitātaki wahine hoki. Engari 

    For me, the male leader needs to be the protector, he protects the kapa and his counterpart, the female leader. But 

    He rerekē ngā tāera tāne, kei te āhua o tō hiahia. Ki ahau nei, me pūmau tonu ki tana ao Māori, me pūmau, me whakapono ki ērā pūmanawa i mua i te kapa, me te reo hoki.

    you know, you've got different style of leaders for males if you going with different looks. But ki ahau nei, me pūmau tonu ki tana ao Māori, me pūmau, me whakapono ki- I think having those qualities before kapa, having some kind of whakapono or beliefs with anything really and me tana reo hoki. 

    Pēhea koe?

    And what about you?

    Mōku ake, ko Miri Hare te tauira, te kaitātaki o Te Mātārae i Orehu. Kei a ia ngā āhutanga katoa, koia taku tauira. Ka tū ahau hei kaiwhakawā, ka whai ahau i tāna i whakatauiratia ai. Kei a ia te katoa, te tū, te āhua, te kaha, te rerehua. Me pai te katoa. Me whānui ngā pūkenga.

    For me, I've always looked up to Miri, Te Mātārae i Orehu’s kaitātaki, Hare. For me, she's got the whole package and as a leader, I try to be like that. And as a judge, when I do judge te kaitātaki, I like to see what she has. She has everything, the stance, the look, the fierceness, the beauty. You've got to have it all. Got to have the mixture.

    Tērā tētahi tau ko māua tahi ngā kaitātaki mō Whakatāne High School, ā, ehara i te mea he kaitātaki noa iho ia, i mate ia ki te manaaki i ngā kōtiro i ngā parakatihi me ngā noho. Ko au hoki tērā, ka mate ahau ki te tātaki, ki te purei rakuraku me te whaikōrero. He āwhina nui te ako i ēnei pūkenga katoa mō te tū kotahi, hāwhe hāora te roa.

    And there was one year we were both the leaders for Whakatāne High School and she was not only the leader, she had to look after the girls as well at practices and at noho. And I was the same, I was a leader, guitarists, whaikōrero all in one. So I think learning all these other skills for that one performance, 30 minutes only, it sort of helped us.

    I pēhea tērā wheako rā? I kōrero rā koe ko koe te kaitātaki, te kairakuraku, te kaiwhaikōrero. Taumaha, was it hard?

    How was that experience? You being the leader, guitarist and the speaker. Was it hard?

    Ka tipu ake te tangata me tētahi pāpā pēnei i tō māua nei, ka mōhio koe, kāore he kōwhiringa. He āwhina nui tērā. Me mihi ki ō māua mātua nātemea kāore he kōwhiringa. He tamariki rerekē māua. Kāore i whakaaetia te omaoma haere me te tākaro. Ko tā māua he whakarite i te marae, he haere ki te karakia, he haere rānei ki ngā noho katoa i aua rā. I mate hoki māua ki te haere ki ngā noho katoa i te tau 2000, 2001 rānei, me taku tino hiahia kia haere ki te Matatini i Ngāruawāhia, engari kāore i whakaaetia ngā tamariki. Ka karawhiu ahau i ngā mahi i mua i te pouaka whakaata nātemea i pērā te whakapakekehia o māua e ō māua mātua. Kāore he kōwhiringa, me mahi tonu.

    I guess, growing up with a father like ours you have no choice. So I think that helped. And that's why we appreciate our parents, because we had no choice. We weren't normal kids. We weren't allowed to run around and play games. We had to run to the marae, go to karakia or run to all their noho’s back in those days. We even had to, one memory was 2001, or 2000, I think. And I really wanted to go to Ngāruawāhia for the Matatini there, but kids weren’t allowed back in those days. So I did it in front of TV watching it live, but because of our parents they've nurtured us in kapa haka and pretty much had no choice. We had to just do it.

    Āe. 

    Yeah.

    Ki ō kōrua whakaaro, kei te ahu pēhea ngā mahi hakahaka i roto o Ngāi Tūhoe i waenga i a tāua te rangatahi? Kei te ora rānei?

    According to you both, how do you think haka is tracking amongst the younger generation in Ngāi Tūhoe? Is it thriving?

    Kei te tino ora ki ahau nei, engari, ngā kōrero o Nana, me whakatūpato i a tātou anō, 

    It is thriving in my opinion, but Nana always warns us 

    E pā ana ki ngā pānga o te Matatini, me rohe kē, nātemea he momo tāera e kitea ana, ka mutu kei te mōhio māua, engari he pai te whakamātau i ngā wai hei whakangahau i te marea i te mea i te wā o Te Hui Ahurei o Tūhoe, 

    especially the influences from Matatini, or from other rohe coming in, because it is coming the style, which we are very well aware of, but we still like to push boundaries a little bit just for entertainment purposes, because we know with Te Hui Ahurei o Tūhoe, that’s

     te matemateāone, te tū o Tūhoe anake.

    That is uniquely about the stance of Tūhoe.

    Mō māua, he rawe te whakamātau i aua wai rā, e matomato ana tērā āhua i waenganui i tēnei reanga.

     So I think with us, we just like to push that little boundary, but I think it's really alive within our generation.

    Ka mutu, ko te hangarua i ngā waiata Pākehā, o Disney hoki tētahi o āu nā tino tāera, arā, ko te Lion King tērā, i hou ai ōna rongo. 

    Furthermore, reusing Pākehā songs, Disney songs has become part of your style, like Lion King, that became famous.

    He aha tō whakaawenga? Ka whakaawe i a koe i te taha ki te puoro?

    What drives you? What motivates you to arrange

    te taha ki te puoro?

     

    I ahu mai tērā i taku taenga atu ki te mātaki i te kiriata Lion King hou, ā, ko Beyonce a Nala. I waiata ia i te waiata Can You Feel The Love Tonight. Kāore i pai. Ka whakaaro ake ahau “māku tonu e whakarite, ka waiatahia ai ki runga i tētahi atamira ā-motu”. He atamira tērā mōku. Koinā te ātaahuatanga o ngā mahi kapa haka, arā te whakamahi i ērā āhuatanga hei waka whakaputa kare ā-roto. He waka tērā hei whakaputa i ōku whakaaro mō Lion King i taua tau. Kātahi ka horapa haere i runga TikTok, te aha atu rānei.

    How that song came about, we went to go and watch a new Lion King and Beyonce is the Nala. She was singing Can You Feel The Love Tonight. I was very disappointed. So I thought, "Right, I'm going to go and create it myself and sing it on a national stage." And that gave me the opportunity. And I think that's the beauty of kapa haka, that you could use that as a platform to express your feelings. So that was a way of expressing my feelings towards the new Lion King that had come out that year. And then it just hit the roof with TikTok and aha rānei.

    Hēoi, kei reira taku kaingākau ki te waihanga puoro me ngā rangi me te mea e tīni ana te āo me taku whakapono me whai mātou i te āo. Me tīni me tipu hoki mātou. Ki te kore ka noho koe hei nama noa iho ka kore koe e mōhiotia rānei, nō reira me tīni ngātahi.

    But I think that's where my passion for creating music and tunes, especially the times are changing and I believe that we have to move with time. If we don't, you'll become a number, or no one knows you. So ki ahau nei, we've got to move.

    Āe, i kōrero mai rā koe mō ō māharahara mō te waiata o Nala o te Lion King, tēnā whakatauiratia mai me pēhea e eke ai ki te taumata.

    Yeah you talked about your dislike of Nalas rendition of the song in Lion King and then you went and showed how to 

    I te wā i puta mai taua kiriata, whakaari rānei, i haere au ki te mātaki me taku hoa i taua kiriata, i te wā i waiata mai ngā kaiwaiata, ngā kiripuaki, i te tino pukuriri au. 

    When the movie came out I went and watched it with one of my friends, and I was very upset with the singing.

    Hei tauira, i runga i te wairua pai, Beyonce, i rerekē tō waiata i te waiata i waia ai ahau i te putanga tuatahitanga. I rerekē. He nui rawa ngā wanawana. He pai ake te mea tūturu. Māku e whakatauira. Ka puta mai ia, ka pēnei tana waiata, “"Can you feel the love tonight?", kātahi ahau ka kī, e hē, me pēnei kē "Can you feel the love tonight?" kia tau, kia ngāwari, he oatemāka ngā wanawana. Nā reira i pukuriri ai ahau. Ka hoki ahau ki te kāinga, ka tito i tētahi waiata tira mā aku tamariki, ka waiatahia ai i runga i te atamira ā-motu, mea rawa ake, ka kitea i runga i te TikTok me te YouTube.

    Because for example, no offense, Beyonce, but the phone calls was just really not what I heard when it came out. And it just changed. Too many trills. And it should have just been how it was sung the first time. And so I'll give you a demonstration. So she came out and the first was, "Can you feel the love tonight?" And I was like, "No." It's supposed to be, "Can you feel the love tonight?" Just nice and ngāwari, but the trill's too much. So I got pukuriri. So I went back home and composed a waiata tira for my kids and we sung it on the national stage and it went out on TikTok and YouTube.

    He waiata rongonui ināianei nē?

    It's a big hit now, isn't it?

    Āe. I mihi atu ahau, engari me mihi ki a Beyonce, nāna ahau i whakaawe.

    Yeah. So I was like, "Thank you," but to Beyonce for inspiring me to do it.

    Kia hoki atu tatou ki ō wheako haka i tāwāhi, tō haere ki Kotimana, ki te Edinburgh Military Tattoo. Tēnā whakamāramatia mai, he aha tērā?

    And let's go back to your guys overseas experiences with haka, taking you to Scotland, to the Edinburgh military tattoo. Tēnā whakamāramatia mai. What is that?

     

    Kāore au i paku mōhio he aha te aha i taua kaupapa rā, heoi anō ka tae atu ahau ki reira, ki te whare ariki, ka hanganoa i ngā mahi. Nō muri mai ahau ka mōhio i tērā, heoi anō ka tae atu ki te whare ariki, ka tūtaki ki ngā tīma rerekē katoa. Ka tū hoki mātou ki te whakangahau atu. Ka tū ko te Māori. Ka mutu. Ka whakatā. Kātahi te whakamutunga. Ko te whakamutunga te tino. Ka hoki mai ngā rōpū katoa i te mutunga, waiata tahi ai. Pēnei i te waiata a Bruno Mars, “If you are happy.”

    Well yeah, I didn't know what I was getting myself into, but when we got there, we got to the castle, they had to make it all up, though. I didn't know that until afterwards, but we got to the castle, got to meet all the different teams. And we had to perform even doing our thing. The Māori’s will come and do their thing. Finish. Then we have a break. And then the finale. The finale was the best. So all the rōpū come back together at the end and they just perform the songs. And there were things like, "If you are happy," I think Bruno Mars?

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    He karawhiu i te poi ki tērā waiata. Ka hanga nekehanga i te taenga atu ki reira. He āhua rerekē te hanga ringa ki aua waiata engari i ngahau ngā mahi i ia pō.

    Doing a poi to that. We had to come up with actions when we got there. And so doing actions to songs like that felt really weird, but we all had a good laugh as each night went by.

    Ko te mea uaua i te military tattoo ko te āta whakarite i ngā rōpū katoa ānō he ope tauā. Ka mahi noa iho koe. Ka whakahau tō rangatira “me pēnei, karawhiua.” Mēnā he tītaha te rōpū, kei te hē rānei

    But I think from that, I think the hardest part about the military tattoo is the organizing of all the groups as like a military. You just do. So the commander will be like, "You are going to perform this, do it." And if your group was crooked or out-

    Me tōtika.

    You had to be straight.

    Ka wero rātou i ngā kaiako o ngā rōpū. He āhua ōrite ki te ope tauā me te nuku i ngā rārangi tōtika, me kaua e tītaha, engari mātou ngā Māori, ka whakamātau i ngā rārangi tītaha mō te kata noa iho.

    They will embarrass the tutors of your groups. Yeah, so you just imagine being in the army and you are moving all straight lines, can't be crooked, but poor Māori’s like us, we thought would just be like a Māori out of line, crooked and just having fun with the military.

    Ka kōhetetia mātou mō tēnā.

    Well, we got a growling for that.

    Me kaua hoki e tōmuri. Me tae atu i te wā tika kei wehe te pahi. Ko ētahi i mahue ki muri. Ka makarauna, mea rawa ake kua wehe te pahi. Ki a au nei,

    And you can't be late. You got to be on time else the bus just leaves. And we've had a few that got left behind. Mucking around and we just, the bus has got to go. So I think it was-

    I ōrite ki te uru atu ki te ope tauā. Kei mahue koe ki muri, kei kōhetetia rānei.

    Was, so it was like you were in the army, like bang, bang, bang, bang. Otherwise, you're going to get left behind, or get a growling.

    Koia rā te Military Tattoo, kātahi ko te Merrie Monarch i Hawaii. He aha te Merrie Monarch?

    Military tattoo and then the Merrie Monarch in Hawaii. What is the Merrie Monarch?

    Kia mōhio mai ngā tamariki. Katoa ngā kaha ka whakapaua e te Māori mō te Matatini, he ōrite tā ngā Hawaiana whakapau kaha mō te Merrie Monarch. Koia tā rātou punua Matatini, me kī. Ehara i te mea he punua, he nui kē. Ka tū te Merrie Monarch ia tau, ā, he maha ngā wāhanga pēnei i Te Matatini. He waiata ā-ringa, he poi hoki tā tātou, engari ko te mea uaua e pā ana ki te Merrie Monarch, kāore he wāhi mō te kaupapa rā pēnei i Te Matatini, nō reira ka pau katoa ngā tīkiti i te tau i mua atu. Waimarie mātou i whai wāhi atu mātou ki te mātaki i ētahi o ngā rōpū mai i muri. Koirā noa iho. Ka tū mātou i te pō ā-ao, ka mate mātou ki te wehe nātemea i hokona kētia aua tīkiti rā e ngā Hawaiana, e te hunga nō Amerika, e wai atu rānei puta noa i te ao.

    So, just so our kids will understand in perspective. So how we have Matatini, mō ngā Māori and all the energy that we put in for Matatini is what the Hawaiians do for Merrie Monarch. So that's their punua Matatini me kī. Well, not punua, it's actually nui. So the Merrie Monarch Festival happens every year and they also have categories pērā i Te Matatini. We have waiata ā-ringa, poi, but the tricky thing with the Merrie Monarch, they don't have a venue like Matatini, so tickets were pre-sold the year before. So we were fortunate to actually watch a few performances backstage. And that was it. Once we performed on the international night we had to leave, because those seats were already paid for by locals, by Americans, by all sorts of people all over the world.

    He rawe te kaupapa. He hononga pai hoki tō  Te Matatini me te Merrie Monarch. I whai hononga hoki mātou me ētahi o ngā tāngata i reira pēnei i a Aunty Noinoi rāua ko tana tamāhine, ko Lehua. Waimarie mātou i hanga a Uncle Rick i ētahi o ngā waiata mai i ngā rangi nō Hawaii, ā, i whai wāhi mātou ki te waiata i ngā wāhi rerekē pēnei i te Kamehameha, he whare wānanga. He hōnore nui.

    And it's a beautiful festival, I think. And Matatini has good relationships with the Merrie Monarch as well. And we also built connections there with people like Aunty Noinoi and Lehua, her daughter and some others there. And we were fortunate enough without Uncle Rick composing songs in tunes from Hawaii that we got to perform them there differently, at Kamehameha, the university. We were just fortunate to.

    Pātai whakamutunga, ka pēhea tō tae atu ki reira? Ka tohua koe? Mā wai te tīma e tohu?

    And lastly, how do you get there? How are you picked? How is your team picked to get to these-

    Waimarie ahau he kairakuraku ahau, me whai wāhi atu tētahi kairakuraku. He mahi nui, engari me ū ki ngā parakatihi. Ka toru marama pea te roa o ngā parakatihi i mua i te haere. I tēnei Merrie Monarch, i hāngai ngā rā ki tā mātou whakataetae ā-rohe, i tū ki Rūātoki i te tau 2016. He Ahurei hoki i taua tau. Ka tū te ahurei tuatahi, te wiki i muri mai ka rere atu ki Hawaii, i te hokinga mai, ka uru tōtika atu ki te mutunga wiki o te whakataetae ā-rohe. Mutu ana tā mātou hari i te rōpū o Tāwera ki te ahurei, ka taraiwa ki Tāmaki, ka rere ki Hawaii, ki te Merrice Monarch. Kātahi ka hoki mai, ka kotahi atu ki te whakataetae ā-rohe. Me ū ki ngā parakatihi, me mōhio ki ngā mahi, ā, me whai wāhi ki te rōpū. Me mātua whakarongo ki a Uncle Rick.

    Well, lucky enough for me, I'm a guitarist, so they need a guitarist. So I get first preference, but also the commitment you've got to make to the training. So it could be three months training just to go. But for this particular Merrie Monarch we performed at, it was the same time as our regionals, which was held at Rūātoki 2016. So we had Anna Ahurei. So we had first. And in a week after we flew out to Hawaii that Sunday and we came back and then we went straight into regionals that weekend. So after we took our rōpū Tāwera to the ahurei, we pretty much got in the car, drove to Auckland, caught our plane and went to Hawaii to the Merrie Monarch. And then came back, flew back, drove home, and straight to the ahurei, regionals. So I think having a commitment to practices, knowing your stuff and just being a part of the rōpū. And you just listen to Uncle Rick.

    Kia korero tatou mō te whai i te wā me te whakarerekē i ngā mahi, he aha rā ia ō manako me ō hiahia mō te 

    Yeah. And as we speak of we need to move and change with the times, what are your dreams and aspirations for 

    kapa haka i roto i te rohe pōtae o Ngāi Tūhoe?.

    Kapa haka in Ngāi Tūhoe

    Mōku ake, kia kaua e mataku. E puta atu mēnā koinā tō hiahia, haere ki wāhi kē ako ai. Karawhiua, nātemea he nui ngā mea e mataku ana. Kei reira ngā mātauranga. Kei ngā tamariki o Tūhoe kē te reo. Kāore he take o te parakatihi i tērā. Me haere ki te parakatihi i ētahi atu āhuatanga, kaua i te reo.

    For me just don't be scared. Go out if you feel that you need to go out and learn something different. Go. Go and do it, because some of us are too scared to go out and do that. Because it's there. For Tūhoe children, they already have the reo, so they don't need that. They don't need to practice that. They got to practice other things. But not that.

    Kia noho tonu tāua ki te kōrero mō ngā kūrakuraku, me te taha taumaha o te hāpai, o te whakahaere kapa haka?

    Let’s talk a little bit more about those annoying things, the difficulties of maintaining and running a kapa haka?

    He nui ngā raruraru i te kapa haka. He aha ō rautaki mō ērā āhuatanga hei pauako, hei kaihaka hoki?

     Kapa haka comes with its dramas and all of that what not. What are your coping mechanisms as a pouako, as kaihaka as well?

    Pēnei i ngā kaiako katoa, ka whakatakoto ahau i ngā kawatau i te tīmatanga o ngā mahi. Me whakatakoto ngā kawatau. I ēnei, ka whai rautaki rerekē ahau, ka tuhi kirimana. Kia mōhio pū ngā mātua ki ngā mahi i ngā noho, kia rite hoki rātou mō te wā o te whiriwhiri i te tīma, ā, 

    So what I do before I start a campaign is lay out the expectations, like every other tutor. Lay your expectations out first. But now these days I've come up with a new rautaki where I actually write a contract. Just so parents are very well aware what goes on at a noho, just because there's a lead up to the picking of the team and

     koirā te kōrero e kīia nei ka puta mai ngā taniwha,

    Beause that is when the ugliness can come out,

    Hei tā Nana. Ko tā mātou he āta kōrero i ngā hātepe katoa kia mārama pū ngā kaiako ki te ara whiriwhiri i te tīma. Kia tae atu mātou ki taua wā, te wā whiriwhiri i te tīma, e kore te katoa e kite i te putanga mai o ngā taniwha.

     as Nana would say. So what we usually do is we go through each process and make sure that we are very clear as tutors what we want and how we're going to pick the team before we start anything. So when it gets to the picking of the team, that's when all the ugly stuff comes out for kapa haka that no one sees.

    He hātepe nui tērā. He aha tō rautaki?

    Yeah, it's an intense process. How do you cope with it?

    Mōku ake, tērā ētahi tīma kāore ahau i whai wāhi atu. I tangi ahau pēnei i ērā atu, ka tangi, ka pīrangi whawhai rānei. E kore ahau e pērā. Ka whakapakari ahau i a au anō. Me mōhio ahau he aha i pērā ai, kia pai ai taku hoki ki te kāinga ki te whakapakari i ērā āhuatanga. Koirā taku mahi, ā, kāore anō ahau kia rongo i taua ngau mai i taua wā rā, ehara i te ngau pai. He uaua, engari koinā te āhua o te kapa haka.

    So yeah, with my experience I haven't made a couple of teams before. I cried like everybody else will either cry or get mad or want to fight or whatever. Not me though. I just fix up on it. So I like to know why I didn't, so I can go home, do my homework, come back and do it three times better. And I did, and then I've never been through that situation ever again, but it's not nice. It's not a nice thing to go through, but everyone has to go through it.

    Mai i ngā nawe ki ngā rawe, 

    The lows and the hihs

    He aha ō tino? Ō tino i te ao kapa haka?

    What are your highlights? What would be your highlights in your kapa haka life?

    Ko te kai tētahi o ngā tino. He mea nui te kai nātemea he rawe ngā kai i te ao kapa haka, ngā kai Māori. Koinā noa iho te wā e āhei ai mātou, te hunga whitirau rānei, ki te kai i ēnei kai Māori. Koinā tētahi. Tuarua, ko te whakawhanaungatanga. Nāwai i hoa ka hoa piripono. Ko ngā whanaungatanga me ngā hononga maha, nātemea kāore te hunga i waho atu i te mōhio, he nui ngā tāngata ka taka i te nuku o te whenua kia tae atu ki ngā wānanga, i Ahitereiria, i te Waipounamu, i te Nōta, i te Puku o Te Ika hoki. Ko te ū te kaituitui i ngā hononga. Āe, koirā te hononga.

    Oh, the highlights I like are kai. Kai is a big one, because we have beautiful kai, Māori kai. And that's probably the only time we can have Māori kai, or for some CrossFit people that can enjoy being as a whānau, eating beautiful Māori food. So that's one. Two, te whakawhanaungatanga. Knowing someone down the road to someone who's really close to you now. So those deep relationships and those connections, because everyone doesn't really know from all the groups, you actually got people traveling from Australia to come back, and then from South Island to come to North Island, from up North to come to the Mid East. So I think that's the commitment that everyone makes. And I think that's what brings us together. Yeah.

    Kia kōrero mō te ū, i ēnei rā nei, ko te whakapakari, te whakapāuaua, te pūoioi i te tinana tētahi āhuatanga nui o te kapa haka. He tangata nakawhiti koe, te taha nakawhiti. He mea nui rānei te taha hauora i roto i ngā mahi kapa haka?

    Speaking of commitment, training, te whakapakari, whakapāuaua, pūioio i te tinana has become part and parcel of a kapa haka campaign. You are a CrossFitter, te taha nakawhiti. How important is health in kapa haka campaign?

    He pai taku kī āe ināianei nātemea ehara ahau i te pukunati. Waihoki, he mea nui kia rite koe, e āhei ai koe ki te tuku i tō katoa, i roto i ngā waiata katoa, i te tīmatanga ki te mutunga, me te kore e māharahara mō tō hā, mā te pakari o te tinana e ea ai tērā.

    Well, I can say that now, because I'm not pukunati anymore. So going back from that, for me, you want to not just feel good, you want to look good and you want to be able to sing the songs, every song and express your body from the minute it starts to the end, without puffing, without being a passenger, you want to give it your all, so you need to be fit for that as well.

    Ko ētahi o mātou he pakari ā-hinengaro nei. Kāore pea te hanga o ētahi e pakari, engari koirā te ātaahutanga o te iwi o Tūhoe, he pakari te taha hinengaro, engari pēnei i taku tuahine nei, kua whai i te hanga pakari, he rawe.

    And some of us are fit are mentally. So some of us may not look presentable or may not feel presentable, but I think that's why I'm very grateful being from Tūhoe, because it's taught me mentally to be strong, but people like my sister here, who's gone and got the appearance is awesome.

    He pērā hoki ngā mahi whakatiki nē. He uaua rānei ngā whakawai, nātemea kei te kai koe i te porokori me te heihei. Engari anō te kapa, kei te kai kōhua me te ika.

    Diet comes with that too aye. How hard is- the temptations, you know you’re eating your broccoli and chicken. Meanwhile, the kapa are having a boil up and raw fish, baked fish.

    He uaua te ū ki ngā wero. Kei te pīrangi te katoa ki ngā kai reka, engari me hari atu he kai motuhake, me manawa tītī, kaua e aro ki ērā atu. He pai hoki te nohopuku. Te kaupare i ngā kai, te hipa rānei i ngā kai.

    That was hard being on the challenge. Everyone wants that nice kai, but no, we've got to bring our own kai and just stay disciplined and stay away from all those other people. And another thing I found was fasting as well. So not having meals as well, try and skip meals, if you can.

    Heoi anō, kua tata ū tō tātou waka ki uta. Heoi anō, he aha ō kōrua moemoeā, awhero, mō te kapa haka i roto i te rohe pōtae o Tūhoe?

    We have nearly finished for today. What are your guys' dreams and aspirations for haka within Ngāi Tūhoe?

     

     

    Mōku ake, ko te whakatairanga tonu i ngā mahi, ahakoa ngā āhuatanga o te ao hurihuri nei me te āki a te hangarau i ngā tamariki. Ko te whakatairanga me te whāngai i te kapa haka, kia whai te reanga o āpōpō i ā tātou mahi, nātemea ka taka te wā, ka huri mātou ki tua o te ārai. Kāore ahau i te pīrangi kite i te 

    Well, for me it is for those of us who are still doing kapa haka to keep preaching the word, especially with the new times changing with technology and our kids are all on technology too much. So I think our job for me is just pushing and preaching kapa haka, so the next generation follows through with what we are doing, because we're not going to be- we got to go someday. So I don't want to see 

    kapa haka, mate pērā i te moa. So mō Tūhoe,

    Kapa haka perish like the moa. So for Tūhoe,

    Me whakapakari hoki i te māia o te reanga tamariki.

     it's just building up our next generation's confidence too.

    Āe, ko te māia.

    It's the confidence, yeah.

    He whakatairanga i te kupu. Ki ahau nei, ko te ahurei te ito, te tūāpapa. Ka kore mātou ki te kore he ahurei. Kia kawe tonu te reanga o āpōpō i ngā mahi.

    To teach and to spread the word. But ki ahau nei, the ahurei is our soul, our bread and butter. So without our ahurei we'll be nothing really. So just making sure that our next generation is carrying on.

    Ka mutu, kua roa tēnei o ngā tūāoma, tēnei haerenga a kōrua i te ao haka, kua tīpakona e kōrua, kua tīkarohia ngā kura huna i mea wāhi, i mea rohe, i mea mātanga-

    This journey of yours has been a long one, you have both taken the pearls of wisdom from this trove, that region and that authority-

    What are some gems, what are some hidden gems, he aha ētahi kupu akiaki ki ngā tamariki, ki ngā ākonga ka mātaki i tēnei punua pāoho hei rauemi?

    What are some of the gems, what are some hidden gems, some words of encouragement for the kids, for the students who will watch this platform and use it as a resource?

    He aha ētahi kupu akiaki mō ngā tamariki ka whai i te ao haka hei kaupapa ā tērā tau?

    What are some words of advice to those tamariki ākonga who will be taking up te ao haka next year?

    Ki a au nei, mēnā kei a koe te hiahia, whāia, turakina ngā taupā katoa.

    For me it is, if you're passionate, you go and follow your dreams and don't let anyone stop you, for me.

    He mea nui mō tēnei reanga, ngā kura tuarua. He nui ngā wheako i tērā pakeketanga. Tuatahi, mēnā e ngākaunui ana koe ki te kapa haka, whāia. Whāia mō te hemo tonu atu. Tuarua, ka ako koe i ētahi pūkenga, whāngaihia atu. Whāngai atu ki te ao. Tuatoru, he ara te kapa haka e tae atu ai koe ki ngā wāhi katoa o te ao hei whakatairanga i tō tātou ahurea. Tuawhā, he waka reo te kapa haka. Mēnā kei te ako koe i te reo, he ara āwhina te kapa haka i tō ako. Me te whakarauora anō i ngā hītori. Ahakoa nō hea koe.

    Especially for this generation, ngā kura tuarua. And because as a teenager there's a lot of things they experience. So I think one kapa haka, if you're passionate, do it. But do it with your full confidence and a hundred percent. Two, when you gain your skills, share it. Share your skills with the world. And three, kapa haka can take you places like how it's taken us over the world, just to show our culture. And four, kapa haka is the drive mō te reo Māori. So if you're one that's learning te reo, second language learners, kapa haka is the drive where you can learn all that. And also to revitalise our histories. And our, Wherever you are from.

    Heoi anō, ka mutu kua paenga te wāhi kia tātou, kua hū te tīkera, kua maoa te kapu tī, nō reira tēnei rā te mihi atu o te ao haka ki a kōrua e ngā mātanga o te haka, i kuhu mai ki te tuku i ētahi kura huna, i ētahi maramara kōrero, me kore noa ngā tamariki nei e rongo i ō rātou arero pounamu, i ō rātou ngākau aneane ki tēnei mea, ki te haka, nō reira e mihi atu ana ki a kōrua kei aku kiri whanaunga. Otirā, e kī ana te kōrero, “Whiua ki te ao, whiua ki te rangi, whiua ki ngā iwi katoa.”

    That brings us to the end, the kettle has boiled, tea is ready, this is te ao haka thanking you both, kapa haka exponents, for coming here today to share your pearls of wisdom and opinions in the hope that our children's voices and hearts heed the call of haka, so my relations, many thanks again. As saying goes “send it to the world, to the skies, to all the iwi.”

    Together Edward and Helene stand together and sing a waiata. With Edward on the guitar their sound is blended with a 2 part harmony. Camera changes from Edward and Helene to a panning view of a river and bridge to an birds eye view of a village. A camera shot of the entrance into Taneatua with road and maunga and the village as well as a “Taneatua” sign. A quick shot of a previous interview and camera shot then changes to a sign of Ruatoki and a moving car with a house and maunga in the background. Camera then changes shot and pans upwards over the river and then shot of both Edward and Helene singing. Camera then moves to interviewer Te Okiwa McLean in the studio and also Te Okiwa playing guitar for the beautiful Turuhira Hare. Camera then returns to a shot of Taneatua township and moves to a sunny day with whanau swimming in the awa. Two quick shots of previous interviewees performing and camera then pans out to a birds eye view of awa and then into maunga.

    [ Accordion ]

    Te Reo Māori

    Te Reo Pākehā

    Ka hoki nei au ki te Tai Hauāuru, mā runga i ngā tuahiwi ara roa i runga i tō tātou nei takiwā e kīa nei, ko Taranaki. Ā, ka tatū mai nei ki runga i te poho e kīa nei ko Ngāmotu me te tūtaki atu ki a koe e te kai’ana - tēnā, w’akamō’io mai ki tēnei ‘unga: ko wai koe? Nō ‘ea koe?

     Let me return to the West, on the long ridges that  lay across our region of Taranaki. I arrived upon the  chest affectionately known as Ngāmotu, here I greet  you my cousin – please introduce yourself: who are  you? Where are you from?

    Tēnā, kia tīmata ake tātou ki te tihi o tō tātou maunga a Koro Taranaki e tū mai nei, tō tātou pou tiketike i te ao, i te pō.

     Let us start at the top of our ancestor mountain,  Taranaki that stands tall day in, day out.

    Ka rere kau i’o ko ōna kōawaawa, āmio ana i tōku pā i Puni’o e tū mai rā Te Rau o te Tapairu, tērā o ngā toka i ara’ina e ia tō tātou tupuna e tū mai nei. Koinei te māunutanga mai o te taniw’a o Ngā Mā’anga i tōna rua, kei konei ange au. Nō reira e tika ana me tīmata au ki tēnei ta’a ōku i te Tai ‘auāuru, te kūreitanga o ngā tini waka.

     I then descend down to the many rivers that  surround my pā of Puni’o where Te Rau o te Tapairu  stands, the rock that guided the ancestor that stands  here. The emergence of the taniwha Ngā Mā’anga  from its den is here. And so, it is only right that I  begin with this side of mine, the West, the connector  of many canoes.

    Tokomaru, Kura’aupō, Aotea Utanganui o te kai, o te kōrero - tēnā koe kei taku w’anaunga. Ko ēnā e mau nei i tēnā o ngā hoe Kautu-ki-te-rangi e amo ake nei i runga i a tāua me kore noa e puta ko ngā kōrero e whai pānga nui ana ki tēnei ta’a o tāua. Hāunga tērā atu ta’a ōku, āe: “Ko Maru-te-hiakina e tū ake nei ko te pou mata, ko Apakura.”

     Tokomaru, Kura’aupō, Aotea Utanganui of food and  of narrative – my dearest relation, I greet you. Let us  lift the paddle of Kautu-ki-te-rangi above us so that  we may bring forth all the narrative that pertains to  this side of ours. Notwithstanding that other side of  mine: “Ko Maru-te-hiakina e tū ake nei ko te pou  mata, ko Apakura.”

    Tērā taha ōku i raro o Pirongia, Te Aroaro o Ka’u, ko Waipā awa e tere rā me ōna pikonga ma’a ka tūtaki ki Waikato Horopounamu, puta ki tai o te moana. Ā, ko te Tai Hauāuru nui tonu, nē. Ko ngā one kōpuni e takatakahia e tō tāua tupuna e Ruapūtahanga, tēnei te whai nei i ōna takahanga mai i Waikato-Maniapoto, hoki mai ki tēnei taha ōku i raro tonu i Rau o te Tapairu taku āhurutanga.

     That side of mine is under Pirongia, Te Aroaro o  Ka’u, Waipā is the river with many bends that meets  Waikato Horopounamu and comes out to the sea.  Part of the wider West aye. These are the sands that  our ancestor, Ruapūtahanga, traversed. I am just  following in his footsteps from Waikato-Maniapoto  to this side of mine, to Rau o te Tapairu, my home.

    Engari, ko Ngāmotu. Ko Ngāmotu te papa kāinga, te papa nekenekehanga, tērā taha ōku Ngāti Te Whiti i konei te whenua o Ngāti Te Whiti e hora nei hei whāriki kōrero mō te kaupapa e tū nei. Puke Ariki pā kei konei, kei raro tonu tātou i te taumarumaru o tēnei o ngā pā whakawairua i konei tonu, i Puke Ariki. Nō reira me mihi ki ngā kaitiaki o te rohe nei, oti noa te whare toi whakaari e tū ake nei. He nui ngā hītoria i roto i te w’are nei.

    Ā, mō te taha ki te kapa haka o Taranaki tēnei whare, tēnei atamira tonu.

    Ngāmotu on the other hand. Ngāmotu is the home base, the stage, on my Ngāti Te Whiti side, this is Ngāti Te Whiti land, where we are fortunate enough to host this kaupapa today. The pā of Puke Ariki is here, we are under the shelter of this pā. Therefore, I acknowledge the protectors of this region, and this performing arts building. There is a lot of history in this building.

     

    In regards to kapa haka in Taranaki, this is the stage.

     

    Tika rawa

    You bet.

    Tēnā koe Tauke.

    Thank you, Tauke.

    Tēnā anō ‘oki koe e te w’anaunga. Nō reira, me kaurukutia tāua tahi ki ngā kōrero e w’ai ake nei anō ‘oki, nāu te nuinga o ngā kōrero e ara’i i te mea kei te ‘ia’ia nei te ‘unga ākonga o Te Ao ‘aka, kia rongo ai i ō taka’anga i roto i tēnei ao e kīa nei, ko Te Ao Haka

    Nō reira, me tīmata ake mai te oroko’anga o Te Ao Haka ki a koe. ‘e a’a ō ma’aratanga tuata’i mō tēnei taonga, mō ēnei taonga e kīa nei a Hine-te-rēhia, a Tāne-rore.

    Thank you also, my relation. Let us now delve into the depths of our kaupapa for today, we will follow your lead as the students want to know about your pathway in Te Ao Haka.

     

    So, let’s start with the beginning of your Te Ao Haka journey, your earliest memories to do with kapa haka.

    Hika, me ‘oki rānō ange au ki te wā e kūteretere ana a Te Ingo i roto i te kōpū tonu o tōku w’aene. Ngā oro i pāorooro mai i roto i tōku w’are tangata, koia tonu te pūtaketanga o taku ao haka.

    I roto tonu i te kōpū o tōku wā’ine. 1986 te tau ka whānau mai ange au, mōhio ana tātou tērā tau, waru teka mā ono, Ōtautahi Te Waipounamu, koirā taku whakataetae tauta’i. Ko ‘Rongomai’ te poi,

    ‘He oranga mai’ te whakaeke, koirā ngā momo oro i waimarie ange au. Ko te reo tīorooro, te reo iere o taku māmā.

    I must go back to when Te Ingo was still in her mum’s womb. The sound that resonated while I was still in my mum’s womb, that was the beginning of my ao haka.

    In my mother’s womb. I was born in 1986, you know the year, 86, Christchurch in the South Island, that was my first competition. ‘Rongomai’ was the poi,

    ‘He oranga mai’ was the entrance, those were the sounds I was fortunate enough to grow up around. The beautiful and melodious voice of my mother.

    Te reo tōiri o taku kōkā, koirā taku rāhiritanga ki Te Ao Haka. Ka whānau mai ange au, ā, ko aua pou tonu i reira, i taku rā tuat’i i tēnei ao. Arā ko Te Wharehuia tēnā, nāna a Te Matatini i tapa, nāna a Te Ingo i tapa.

    Rāua tahi ko Tīmoti, ehara tēnei i te kōrero w’aka’i’i. He kōrero whakanui i ērā o ngā ihorei.

    The resonating voice of my mother welcomed me into Te Ao Haka. When I was born, those mentors were there, on my first day earthside. Te Wharehuia was there, he named Te Matatini, he also named Te Ingo.

    Both him and Tīmoti, not in an arrogant way. More of an acknowledgement of those two leaders.

    Tēnā koe, tēnā koe.

    Agreed.

    I a Tā Tīmoti, oti noa i a Te Wharehuia. Nō reira, ko māmā, ko Tīmoti, ko Te Wharehuia kō rātou ngā pou o tōku whare haka. Ka mutu, ko ngā poupou ki te pakitara ā-w’are o tōku whare haka ko ōku tuakana, ko ōku tungāne tonu.

    Ko au te tamaiti tuaono o taku māmā ka mutu, kō rātou tokorima i maringanui ki ērā atu o ngā aumangea o Te Ao Haka. Koro Wī Huata, Koro Bill Kerekere, ngā waiata o ngā tūpuna o Te Tai Rāw’iti, i heke ki rātou waimarie rātou i whai wāhi rātou ki te noho ā-tinana ki te whakarongo, ki te mātakitaki i tērā kounga, i tērā hunga i tō rātou hira.

     

     

    Nō reira, ko tāku he mātaki i aku tuakana me aku tungāne me ō rātou hoa maha. Koinā te orokohanga o taku ao haka i te kōpū tonu, i roto tonu i tōku w’are, i roto tonu i tōku kitini - ērā wāhi ka rere te reo, ka rere te waiata, ka rere te haka.

    Both Tīmoti and Te Wharehuia. So, there was mum, Tīmoti and Te Wharehuia, they are the pillars of my house of haka. Furthermore, the wall-pillars on the walls of my house are my elder female siblings and my brothers.

    I am my mother’s sixth child, and my five older siblings were all fortunate enough to be surrounded by the other champions of Te Ao Haka. Koro Wī Huata, Koro Bill Kerekere, the songs of the ancestors of the East Coast were handed down to them, my siblings were fortunate enough to be able to see them in-person, to listen and bear witness to that sort of standard, that ilk and their quality.

    So, all I would do was watch my older siblings, my brothers and their friends. That was my introduction to te ao haka from still inside the womb, in my own kitchen – those places where you hear the language, the songs and haka.

    Āe, me te ātaa’ua rawa i te mea nei Māori rawa ake tērā ā’uatanga. Nō reira ka tika kia rongo i tērā me tā mātou nei waimarie kia rongo i ērā kōrero nāu i tō oroko’anga me kī i waenganui i te w’anau, i waenga anō ‘oki i Te W’are Wānanga o Waikato.

    Āna, ka tipu ‘aere a Te Ingo ki roto i te takiwā e kīa rā a Waikato, i reira koe kuraina ki te w’arekura rā ki roto i a Rā’ui Pōkeka. Anā, ka tū anō koe ‘ei mataora mō taua kapa, mō taua kura, mō taua w’arekura me kī. Tēnā, kōrero mai mō ngā ā’uatanga o te w’akataetae tuata’i mō ngā kura tuarua o te motu.

    Beautiful, and very Māori. It is only right that we hear those memories of yours, we are lucky to have heard about the beginning of your journey amongst your whānau and Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato.

     

    Yes, Te Ingo grows up in the region of Waikato, she attends wharekura in Rāhui Pōkeka. There you become a representative for the kapa, the school, the wharekura. Talk to us about the first national competition for secondary schools.

    Te Ahurea Tino Rangatiratanga o ngā Kura Tuarua o Aotearoa, Civic Centre i Tāmaki-makau-rau, te poho tonu o te tāone nui rawa o Aotearoa. Pēhea taku pakeke? 13 tau taku pakeke i taua tau, whai wāhi au ki te aroaro ā-kapa o taua kapa nā he mea, he taumata tēnā mō ngā teina i taua wā.

    Ki te tū ki te ta’a o ngā tuakana. Ko Rākaumangamanga taku kura tuata’i i tīmata au i reira, ka mutu ana au i Te Kohanga Reo, ka haere au ki Rākaumangamanga. Ko taku pāpā i runga i te poari, āe taku pāpā i whai wāhi i runga i te poari o tērā kura nō reira e pūmau rawa ana ērā ‘ononga mai anō ki ngā pakeke, ki ngā kaiako, ki ngā rangatira o tērā o mātou kura.

    E kore e motu ērā here nō reira i tīmata au i reira, i tipu tahi au kō rātou tonu aku tino hoki i taua wā ko ngā tuakana o Rākaumangamanga. Ko te kapa haka tonu te take i te pirangi au ki te hoki ki Rākaumanga i taua wā.

    I Taranaki au i mua i taku hoki ki Rākaumangamanga i te mea kāore he kura, he wharekura, ko te reo taku reo matua. Tērā pōhēhē tēnā e kore a Te Ingo e eke i roto i te ao kura aunoa. Nō reira, i wero au i ōku matua kia hoki au ki Te Wharekura o Rākaumangamanga, mō te kapa haka te take.

    I ora Te Ingo i tērā kōwhiringa. Heoi, hoki anō ki te tau 2000, koirā te tau i tū ai ngā w’akataetae ā-motu tuata’i mō ngā kura tuarua. I mua i tēnā ko ngā kapa haka, ko ngā w’akataetae o te Waiariki koirā tonu tētahi o ngā tino taumata, ka piri ngā kura o Tainui, o Te Arawa, o Mātaatua ki tērā wāhi.

    Nō reira, koirā te momo whetiw’ara me kī i whai wāhi ōku tuakana i tōna wā ko Waiariki te taumata. I tēnā wā ko Rākaumanga, ko Rūātoki ngā kura kaha mātou te mātakitaki i ngā videos i ērā wā, ko ngā videos i ērā wā kāore a Youtube me ērā āhuatanga, rewind, fast forward ki ngā waiata pai. Ka noho pō roa mātakitaki ai ērā āhuatanga.

    Heoi, āe he teina a Te Ingo i taua wā i roto i tērā kapa. Ko ngā kaiako ko Whaea Kiri Maaku, ko Matua Hans Tiakiwai nō Rūātoki, nō reira rongonui a Rākaumanga ki te mahi ngā whakaeke whitu miniti te roa, he haka katoa, kāore he waiata

    Te Ahurea Tino Rangatiratanga o ngā Kura Tuarua o Aotearoa, Civic Centre in Auckland, in the middle of the biggest city in New Zealand. How old was I? I was 13 that year and I made the front row of our group, that was a big thing for the juniors back then.

     

    Standing with the seniors. Rākaumangamanga was my firt school, I started there after Te Kōhanga Reo. My dad was on the board, they have very strong connections between the elders, the teachers and the leaders of our school.

     

    Those connections can’t be severed, so I started there and grew up with the people I idolized, the seniors of Rākaumangamanga. Kapa haka was also the reason I wanted to attend Rākaumangamanga back then.

    I was in Taranaki before returning to Rākaumangamanga, because there was no school, only wharekura, the reo was my main language. That was a big mistake thinking Te Ingo could do well in mainstream education. So, I challenged my parents to take me back to Rākaumangamanga for kapa haka.

    That decision was a lifesaver for Te Ingo. Going back to 2000, the year of the first national secondary schools’ competition. Before that, the competition of Waiariki was the standard, all the schools from Tainui, Te Arawa and Mātaatua would attend that.

     

    Those were the types of festivals my older siblings attended, Waiariki was the standard. Back then, Rākaumangamanga and Rūātoki were the schools whose videos we watched all the time, it was videos back then, no Youtube, we would rewind, fast forward to all our favourite songs. We would stay up all night watching and that.

     

     

    Te Ingo was only a junior in the kapa back then. The tutors were Whaea Kiri Maaku and Matua Hans Tiakiwai from Rūātoki, so Rākaumangamanga was well-known for 7-minute long whakaeke, all haka, no singing.

    Nō, nō, engari he ngako tō te kōrero!

    No but there was definitely a point to what was said.

    He ngako, he tū tō Rākaumanga i taua wā. Kaha a Kiri Maaku ki te aro ki te tū ā-iwi , ka kite koe i a Rākaumanga i tērā wā, he mau ki ngā waiata tawhito o Tainui, koirā tētahi o aku tino. Koirā tonu pea taku tino ko tērā wā’anga o te mōteatea, o te waiata tawhito.

     

    Te waiata koroua, āe ko ngā whakaeke roa rawa, ko ngā waiata tawhito ngā waiata tangi katoa o Tainui, i whakaakona ki a mātou e ngā rūruhi ake o te pae o Tūrangawaewae.

    Rākaumanaga had a particular type of stance back then. Kiri Maaku was a stickler for an iwi stance, so when you saw Rākaumanaga back then, they would stick to the traditional songs of Tainui, that was one of my favourites. That is probably still my favourite section, the mōteatea, the traditional chant.

    The waiata koroua, yes, the long entrances, the traditional songs were all the Tainui songs of lament, they were taught to us by the elderly female of the pae at Tūrangawaewae.

    Āe, waimarie.

    Yes, very lucky.

    Koinā. Nā rātou mātou i poipoi, ka karangahia e Kiri Maaku o mātou rūruhi kia haere mai ko Kui Hera.

    Hērā Haunui tētahi o ngā tino, rāua tahi ko koro Hone Haunui ko rāua me kī ngā tino pou i hari, i tū hei reo, hei mangai mō mātou i runga i te pae. Koirā te tauira i pakeke mai au mā ngā kaumatua mātou e waha ki ngā kaupapa oti noa, mā rātou i tuku mai ngā kōrero hei kōrero mā mātou i runga i te atamira.

    Hei aha? Hei whakatairangi i ngā kōrero tuku iho, ko te Kiingitanga tonu te kaupapa matua. Nā, koia anō tētahi o ngā take kua hoki mai au ki te mau i tēnei o ngā kīwei i tēnei taha i te mea ko te Kiingitanga tonu te poutokomanawa o tō mātou kura, o te ao o Te Wharekura o Rākaumangamanga. A, mā te kapa haka i whakatairangitia ai i ērā mātāpono i ū ki roto i a mātou.

    I roto i ngā tikanga o te whānau, o te kura, a te iwi o Waikato a, ka heke ki ngā waiata ā-ringa ko Whaea Kiri Maaku tonu tēnā, koirā tētahi o ana pūkenga ko ngā waiata ā-ringa,

    Kaha ia te poipoi i a mātou ki te menemene koia te mea ka patu i a mātou ki te whakama “piu, piu, swing… Oh, that foot” kaha ia te tohutohu ki a mātou i a mātou e… “smile man… all you jabba jaws shush and stand there…”

    Ērā momo tohutohu i tino wepua ia e mātou, ka mutu ko ia tonu tērā tauira e hia ake tau nei ki muri, ka tū a Kiri Maaku ki te werowero i ngā kaiako nō iwi kē atu e haere mai ana ki roto o Tainui, me pēhea te ū ki te tū o Tainui? He pai tēnā, he ora tonu i roto i ērā momo wero kia ū tonu te tū ā-iwi i roto tonu i tōna takiwā.

    Exactly. They looked after us. Kiri Maaku would ask them to help us, like Kui Hera.

     

    Hera Haunui was one of the best, her and koro Hone Haunui, they were our pillars, they would stand and represent us on the pae. That was the example I grew up with, having our elders represent at many kaupapa, and then they would give us their narrative for us to use on stage.

    What for? To promote our traditional oral history, the Kiingitanga is the main kaupapa. That is also another reason I have returned here to carry this side because the Kiingitanga is the foremost pillar of our school, of the world of Te Wharekura o Rākaumangamanga. Kapa haka was the vehicle that instilled the principles of that kaupapa into us.

    It is in the whānau, school and Tainui iwi protocols, and is entwined in the action songs, that is Kiri Maakus forte, action songs are her specialty.

    She always encourages us to smile and embarrasses us by saying “piu, piu, swing . . . Oh, that foot,” she is always on our case telling us to “smile man . . . all you jabba jaws shush and stand there. . .”

     

    Those sorts of instructions were drilled into us, and she was also like that as a student years ago, questioning the teachers from other regions about how to stick to the Tainui stance? That’s good, there is huge benefit in those sorts of challenges, ensuring that regional stances are upheld in their own regions.

    Ko ia taku kuini haka o Tainui nō reira ka tika me tū ia ki te werowero tonu i a mātou, heoi anō tērā hunga i te werohia e ia, e mōhio ana mātou ki te nui o te aroha me tō rātou tuku. Nō reira, ko Matua Hans tonu tērā tauira nō te mea, i haka ia nō Waikato, ka marēnā ia ki roto o Waikato engari ko ana kupu, ko te reo i hakaina, i waiatahia e mātou he nui ngā kupu o Tūhoe. 

    Tō mātou tumuaki, Matua Bana, nō Tūhoe te maha hoki o ngā kaiako o roto i a mātou, nō Tūhoe, ngā kaihaka nō Tūhoe nā reira i kaha kitea te tū, kaha rangona hoki te reo o Tūhoe i roto i ngā whakahīnga waiata. Nō reira, ko te kounga o te reo tonu tēnā ki au, i whakaūngia engari i reira hoki a Matua Rāhui.

    I taua wā ko ia tonu tēnā e whakaū ana i te reo o Tainui, i ngā kaupapa o Tainui, ngā tikanga o Tainui nō reira i haeretahi mō te kapa haka te take, mō te tikanga te take, mō te manā-motuhake te take.

    Ngā haka koinā tētahi o ngā… e kitea ai te tū o tēnā iwi i roto i te haka, i roto hoki i te poi. Nō reira ko te poi o taua tau ko ‘Tīmatangia a Te Puea’. Tērā poi roa rawa atu kotahi te ringa mō ia whiti, ka tuarua mātou ki a Lytton pea i taua tau.

    Engari ka whakaūngia ngā pao he tino waiata tēnā ki ahau nei a Timatangia a Te Puea, nō reira ko ērā kōrero hitori mō ngā pakanga o Waikato, mō ngā mahi nuinui, ngā mahi hirahira a Te Puea tētahi o aku tino tauira.

    He aha kē atu? I taua tau i kitea te reo, te tū o ngā iwi, i kitea te māia a Te Ohinga ki te mahi i āna mahi, ki te kōrero i āna kōrero, ā, he whakataetae ka mau tonu ki te hirikapo mō ake, ki te manawa hoki.

    I te mea i wikitōria mātou.

     

    I tērā o ngā tū hoki nā taua toa, i rongonui anō a Rākaumanga ka mutu, i reira te taumata koirā pea tētahi mea uaua rawa atu i te ao kapa haka, ko te pupuru ki taua taumata. Ka mutu, ka kite i ērā atu o ngā kapa, o aku teina ka whanake mai i te ao kapa me taku whakahīhi ki ngā mahi i pupurutia ki ngā tikanga, ki te reo, ki te kaupapa. Āe, i āta panoni te tū, me pono taku kōrero.

    I taku i kite i roto i ngā tau heoi anō, i rangona tonu te reo me te kaupapa e kaingākaunuitia ana e mātou o Te Wharekura o Rākaumangamanga ko te Kiingitanga, ko ngā kaumatua, ko te whenua, ērā mātāpono. Āe, tēnā koe i pātai mai tērā pātai kia hoki anō aku mahara

    She is my haka queen from Tainui and it is only right that she continues to challenge us, and I know that the ones she challenges respect her a lot. Matua Hans is a good example of that, he does haka in Waikato, although he married into Waikato, a lot of his words and the language he uses to haka and sing are from Tūhoe.

     

    Our principal, Matua Bana, is from Tūhoe, and so are a lot of our other teachers, they are Tūhoe kaihaka, and it is evident in their stance and you hear it in their voices in the songs. The language was still of a quality standard in my opinion, but we also had Matua Rāhui there as well.

    Back then he was the authority on the language, the kaupapa and the protocol of Tainui, all that went hand in hand for the benefit of kapa haka, protocol and autonomy.

     

    You see it in haka, that is where you see the regional style, in haka and in poi. The boy that year was ‘Tīmatangia a Te Puea’. That was a very long poi and there was an action for every verse, I think we came second to Lytton that year.

     

    But the pao stuck with me, I really liked that song Tīmatangia a Te Puea, all the historical narrative about the Waikato wars, and all the work that Te Puea was a great example for me.

     

    What else? That year we saw the language, the regional stance, Te Ohingas skill doing the do, eloquently spoken, it is definitely a competition that sticks out in my memory and in my heart.

     

     

    Because we won.

     

    After that stand, because we won, Rākaumanga was famous once again, and that was the standard. One of the hardest things in the world of kapa haka is holding on to that standard. When I see all the other groups that my juniors are a part of and have developed in te ao kapa, I can’t help but be proud that they are preserving the protocols, the language and the many kaupapa. The stance has, however, changed a bit, if I’m being honest.

     

    That is what I have seen over the years, but I can still hear the language and the kaupapa that Te Wharekura o Rākaumangamanga are staunch too, the Kiingitanga, the elderly and the land, those are our principles. Thank you for those questions and helping me take a trip down memory lane.

    Kia pari mai anō ngā kare ā-roto i rongo i a mātou i taua wā, i te wā o te rangatahi 13 te tau.

    So that all my emotions come flooding back from that time, when I was but a young thirteen-year-old.

    Nō reira, e hāngai ana ngā kōrero nei ki te wā o te rangata’i i a koe e rangata’i ana, ana i tū koe ‘ei kai’aka mō Rākaumangamanga, te w’arekura rā, ana i tū anō koe mō tēta’i atu kapa tuakana i taua wā tonu. Tēnā, kōrero mai mō tēnā w’eako. 

    Let’s continue with your youth, you stood as a performer for Rākaumangamanga, for the wharekura, but you also stood for another senior team at the same time. Talk to us a little bit about that experience.

    I mua i taku tū, i mua i te haere pea ki ngā whakataetae kura tuarua, taku tū tuatahi ki tētahi kapa tuakana ko te ropu, ko Toi Whakaari, Waikato Polytech. Tētahi o ngā kapa kia whakakiikii kia nui ake ngā nama ki ngā whakataetae ā-motu ko taku tungāne ko Tai, te kaiako o tērā hōtaka i puta ai a Katchafire, tērā hunga. 

    Tērā pea ko Logy te kaitātaki, aroha mai kāo tētahi atu pea engari ko taku tuakana ko Maria te kaitātaki wahine.

    Before I stood, well actually before attending the secondary schools’ competition, I first stood for a senior group called Toi Whakaari, from Waikato Polytech. One of those groups that help get more groups to nationals, my brother Tai was the organiser of that bracket, and it included people like Katchafire.

    Logy may have even been the leader, maybe not, but my older sister Maria was definitely the female leader.

    Oh, āe.

    Oh yes.

    Mahara ana ki tēnā. 12 tau taku pakeke, e ai ki ngā ture 14 tau te pakeke ka kuhu, engari i taua wā, i ēnei rā tonu e whai mana ana ngā rohe ki te āta whiriwhiri i ana ture. Nō reira, e mea ana au ehara i te mea i whati i te ture, engari i rāhiritia ērā momo tikanga kia puta tonu te ihu o Tainui waka i roto i ngā kaupapa, i ngā whakataetae ā-motu.

    I remember that. I was 12 years old then, according to the rules you had to be at least 14 to enter, but back then the regions had the last say in regard to its own rules. I’m not saying that I broke the rules, I was rather a beneficiary of a slight rule change for the benefit of Tainui at the kaupapa and the national kapa haka competition.

    Heoi, haere ngā tau, i noho tahi au ki taku tungāne i a Rana rāua tahi ko Wiki. I taua wā i roto rāua i te kapa o tuakana o Wiki, ko Pania tana tuakana, te whānau Pāpā me tērā o aku tungāne a Puka, tino hoa rāua tahi ko Rana mai anō. He whānau tonu, he whanaunga tangata kei reira, i waenga i ō mātou whānau nō reira ko Rangimārie te kapa. 

    As the years went by, I stayed with my older sibling Rana and Wiki. Back then they were both in Pānia’s, Wiki's older sister’s group, the Papa family and Puka, He and Rana were close friends since way back. It was a tight group, a family, Rangimārie was the name.

    He aha te tau? 15 tau pea taku pakeke i kuhu au ki te kapa haka o Rangimārie i te mea i te noho tahi au ki taku tuakana me taku taokete i taua wā. He kaiako hoki a Wiki i Rākaumanga ko ia tō mātou kaiako pūtaiao i taua wā. Nō reira, koia Te Ao Haka ki au nērā, he mahi tā tēnā, tā tēnā, tā tēnā, engari ko te kapa haka tonu tētahi o aua kaupapa e w’akakota’i anō i a tātou i raro tonu i te tikanga, i te waiata, i te ngahau, i te haka, i te kounga hoki o te reo.

    How old was I? I was 15 when I joined Rangimārie because I was living with my older brother and my sister in-law. Wiki was also a teacher at Rākaumanga, she was our science teacher. That is Te Ao Haka to me, everyone has a job to do, but kapa haka is one of those things that brings everyone together in the name of protocol, song, entertainment, haka and quality of language.

    Ko Rangimārie tonu tēnā, i kuhu au ki tētahi anō kapa koirā taku tū tuatahi ki… i taua wā ko AMPAC tonu, kāore anō kia ara tērā o ngā ingoa a Te Matatini, tau 2002 ki Takaparawhau. Koirā taku tūnga tuatahi i te taha o ngā tuakana o Te Ao Haka me te aha i tino eke a Rangimārie i tērā tau i roto i tō mātou puna. 

    That was Rangimārie, and then I entered another group, it was my first stand at . . . AMPAC back then, had not yet been named Te Matatini, 2002 in Takaparawhau. That was my first stand amongst seniors of Te Ao Haka and Rangimārie did quite well in our pool that year.

    Oh, āe, āe.

    That’s right.

    I taua wā ko ngā puna, e toru ngā puna, e rua ngā kapa nō ia puna, i tuatoru mātou i tō mātou puna. Ka mutu, ki taku nei mōhio i tuaiwa pea i roto i ngā… i te raupapatanga o ngā toa i tuaiwa mātou i tērā tau. Hika, he wheako tino whakatangata tēnā i ahau.

    Te momo tangata i roto i tērā kapa mōmō.  Āe, i aua wā tonu ‘oki āe. Wā.

    Ngā kaihaka katoa o te kapa o Rangimārie he mahi nunui ā rātou mahi. Taku e mea ana he takuta, he roia, he kaitatau pūtea, he kaiako, he tangata e kaha kōkiri ana i ngā mahi o tō rātou nā ao ka mutu, i tino manaaki rātou i ahau.

    Hei teina, he kōtiro tonu ahau i taua wā ko au te pepi o te kapa i tū ki tērā tū, a, ko te mahara ka mau ki taku iho, ko Parps, Lewis Moeau. Ko ia te pāhake o tō mātou kapa. Tērā wheako, te tū, te mahi tahi ki a ia, ahakoa tana kaumatua ko ia tonu tērā e werowero ana i ngā mea rangatahi i te mea he tino powerhouse a ia.

    Back then, there were three pools and two groups from each pool made it through, we came third in our pool. Overall, I think we came ninth out of all the teams. That was a big experience for me.

    The type of people that were in that kapa were unique.  Yes, in those times, definitely.

    All the performers in Rangimārie had good jobs. I’m talking about doctors, lawyers, accountants, teachers, people who are leaders in their respective worlds, and they really looked after me.

    I was young, still a girl, I was the baby of the team, the memory I remember the most is of Parps, Lewis Moeau. He was the elder of our group. That was an experience, standing and performing with him, although he was older, he was still challenging the younger ones because he was a powerhouse.

    Āe, tēnā koe.

    Thank you.

    Ko ia tētahi o ngā tino powerhouse, tērā reo, tērā mangai paorooro nui ka uaua te kite i tērā momo i ēnei rā.

    He was such a powerhouse, a powerful voice that is hard to find these days.

    Āe, tautoko.

    I agree.

    Nō reira, koirā tētahi wheako e kore au e wareware, te tū tahi ki a Parps i taua tūnga ko ia te pāhake, ko au te pepi o te kapa o Rangimārie taua tau.

    Me ngā whakahīnga waiata nērā, ngā tikanga o te mau patu. 

    Kōirā tētahi tikanga i tino poipoia e Pania i roto i tō mātou kapa, me ngā waiata nērā ngā rangi hāpai, ngā rangi hāpai o Rangimārie, ngā reo tīorooro o Rangimārie. I taua tau hoki i kuhu mai a Manawaroa rāua ko Tere-Apii ngā T-Sisters, kātahi anō ngā T-Sisters ka rongonui hoki i taua wā.

    So that was an experience I will never forget, standing alongside Parps, he was the oldest and I was the youngest in Rangimārie that year.

    The high notes and the way in which to use a patu.

    That was something that Pania really nurtured in our group in regard to the songs, the notes, all the notes in Rangimārie and the melodious voices of Rangimārie. That year Manawaroa and Tere-Apii joined us, the T-Sisters, they had recently become famous.

    Āe, i whai wāhi hoki rāua i roto i tō mātou kapa nō reira i tīmata te kuhu mai o tērā momo reo nērā, tērā gospel reo, engari he kapa waiata tira tonu, he kapa waiata a Rangimārie.

    They joined our group and so did their style of singing, the gospel style, but we still maintained our choral style, Rangimārie is a singing group.

    A Rangimārie, oh āe.

    Rangimārie, yes definitely.

    Nō reira, i tino ora a Te Ingo i roto i tētahi kapa waiata i te mea koinā te ao i tipu mai au i te taha o māmā.

    Me te mahara hoki ki ngā mea pērā i a Matua Watson.

    He kaiako nōku i Rākaumanga, koia tonu tētahi o ngā kaihaka matua. Matua Bentham Ohia, ngā tuakana, teina a Puka, Uncle Pete. Te mātaki tērā momo tērā koirā, arā te hunga whakatangi rakuraku, te pūkenga o tēnei mea te whakatangi rakuraku i roto tonu i a Rangimārie.

    Te maha hoki ō rātou e āhei te whakatangi engari, arā kē te kounga i reira. Puoro, whakatangi rakuraku, ngā rangi, engari ko te reo. I tērā tau i tō mātou mōteatea ko te kaupapa o te mōteatea, ko ngā whare mahanga arā, ngā twin towers.

    Te tau i mua ka turakina ngā twin towers koirā, ki taku mahara i wikitōria mātou te original composition mō te mōteatea i taua tau.

    Te Ingo thrived in a singing group because that is the world I grew up in with my mother.

    While also acknowledging the likes of Matua Watson.

    He was one of my teachers at Rākaumanga and also one of our core performers. Matua Bentham Ohia, Puka’s older and younger brothers, Uncle Pete also. Just watching that ilk, they were all guitarists, skilled guitarists of Rangimārie.

     

    Heaps of them could play at an elite level. Play instruments, play the guitar, find tunes, but the language. That year the theme of our mōteatea was the twin towers.

     

    The year before, the twin towers had fallen, and to my memory we won the original composition for mōteatea that year.

    Tika, āe.

    Yes, that’s right.

    E kore au e wareware ki taua waiata me te ia, te rangi i kōwhiria e Pania he mea e tākirikiri i te manawa. Kia tino rongo ai tātou i te mamae e pā ki runga ki tērā o ngā whenua oti noa, ngā iwi o tērā wā. 

    Koirā hoki tētahi o ngā tauira tuatahi i mārama ki a Te Ingo, tēnei mea te whakahīnga waiata hou.

    I tēnei ao. Ngā kaupapa o tēnei rangi tonu i roto tonu i te wairua, i te reo o ō tātou matua tūpuna.

    I will never forget that composition and the tune that Pania created, it played with the emotions. It was intentionally done so that we could all feel the hurt that the country and the people over there felt.

    That was one of Te Ingo’s first learnings, was creating new compositions.

     

    In today's times. Conveying today's messages with the nuances and language of our forebears.

    Kia ora, tēnā koe.

    How good!

    Nō reira, i roto i tēnā mahara ko Pania tonu taku tauira, taku tino tauira o ngā whakahīnga waiata hou me ngā rangi hou. Koia tonu te take e kaha aro ana au ki tērā wāhanga o te mōteatea tonu i Taranaki nei me te whakahāngai i ngā kaupapa o ēnei rā, ki roto i ngā tikanga o ō tātou tūpuna.

    Ko Pania tēnā, ko Rangimārie tēnā te orokohanga o te whakaaro hou i roto i te kapa haka i ēnei rā, i ahu mai i Rangimārie. Āe, koirā taku wheako i tērā o ngā kapa. Nā, ka peke atu au ki Tamarau.

    In that regard, Pania is my idol, for song composition and tunes. She is the reason I focus a lot on mōteatea in Taranaki and relating today's topics with yesterday's happenings.

     

    That was Pania, actually that was Rangimārie, the start of using contemporary themes in kapa haka. That’s what I felt in that group. And then I joined Tamarau.

    Āe, tēnā koutou Maniapoto.

    Ka pai, Maniapoto.

    Neke atu i te 15 tau kāore a Maniapoto kia whakakanohitia i tērā taumata nō reira, koirā te rongo i roto i au e whakakanohi ana au i a Maniapoto kua roa nei e ngaro ana tana kōrero.

    Tana kaupapa. Āe, arohamai e waiatahia nā ērā atu kapa āe, engari ko Maniapoto tangata e waiata ana i a Maniapoto kaupapa. Nō reira ka hoki mātou i tērā tau ko Te Matatini te kaupapa, ko Te Matatini te ingoa. Ā, i hoki anō au taku tūnga whakamutunga i Te Matatini i tō Te Iti Kahurangi taha.

    It had been over 15 years since Maniapoto was represented at that level, so that’s why I went to represent Maniapoto and all its narrative. 

    It's its own narrative. Sorry, other groups were singing about that narrative, but it had been a long time since Maniapoto represented itself and its own narrative. So, we returned that year, Matatini was our theme and our goal. I also returned and my final stand at Te Matatini was for Te Iti Kahurangi.

     

    2009

    2009.

    Rua mano ma iwa I runga i te karanga o taku tino ko Tiare tērā, taku tino hoa ahakoa taku kī ki au anō e kore au e tū mō taua kapa, engari i tana karanga ka tū au ki te tautoko i taku hoa, oti noa i taku whānau Teinakore, tērā o aku karanga maha a Kiingi, tō taua whanaunga, me te aha ko te reo tonu te mea i tō mai i a Te Ingo.

    Mēnā kei te pirangi koe kia tū au, me papai tō reo.

    I went at the behest of my best friend, Tiare, even though I swore to myself that I wouldn’t stand for that group, I went to support my best friend, the Teinakore whānau, my relation Kiingi, and my desire to upskill my language capabilities.

    If you want me to stand for you, your reo better be good.

    Nā, well kei te rongo au ki tērā o ngā kōrero.

    Well, that’s how I felt anyway.

    Koirā te taumata  i whakaritea e pāpā Tīmoti i roto i te waiata, tau 1986  Tīmoti, [sings song]

    That’s the standard that Pāpā Tīmoti set in his song in 1986

    Tērā pea kua hē pea aku kupu engari, koirā te rerenga i titia ki taku hinengaro, ki taku ngākau. Me tika, me rere, me kounga te reo i te tuatahi, ā, ko ērā atu mea whakareka, te tū, te tinana, te mata, he mea whakakaha, whakapakari tonu i tā te kupu e kōrero ana.

    I may have got the words a little mixed up but that was the sentence that struck a chord with my mind and my heart. Firstly the language should be correct, it should flow and it should be of a good standard, everything else is just an accompaniment: the stance, the body, the face, it enriches and strengthens what the words are saying.

    Āe, ka tika.

    Yes indeed.

    Nā reira, ko Te Iti Kahurangi tērā wheako hika, rawe tērā wheako.

    That’s what the Te Iti Kahurangi experience was for me, it was a great experience.

    Pai katoa.

    Very good.

    I runga i a Tauranga Moana me te tū ki te taha o ōku hoa. I taua wā i rongo au me aro pu au ki te rangatahi, ki te ohinga, ki ngā tamariki kua ea te wā ki… ehara i te mea kua roa te tū a Te Ingo i tērā taumata engari i te pirangi au ki te aro ki ngā mahi whakahīnga waiata me te poipoi tonu i ngā tamariki.

    Kia rongo rātou i tērā katumanaaki i tērā, katupoipoi i rangona e taua, nō reira koirā aku wheako i ngā kapa tuakana, i te atamira o te motu. A, ka hoki mai ki konei ko Ngā Purapura o te Tai Hauāuru taku kapa inaianei i mua i Ngā Purapura arohamai, kia hoki whakamuri. I kawhakina mātou i tō mātou koka.

    Mai o mātou kapa, āe i Te Iti Kahurangi au i taua wā, i runga anō i ōna wawata nui kia kite ia i ana tamariki, me ana mokopuna e tū tahi ana nō reira, ko Te Haona Kaha kapa haka tēnā. Kei te ora tonu Te Haona Kaha kapa haka.

    Ēngari kāore mātou i te whakataetae i tēnei wā nō reira, e toru ngā campaigns me kī, a rohe, kāore anō kia puta te ihu.

    At Tauranga, standing with my friends. It was at that time that I thought I should focus on the youth, the younger generation my time was . . . it’s not like Te Ingo performed at that level for a long time, but I just really wanted to focus on composition and looking after our younger ones.

     

    So, that they feel the sort of nurturing and support that we experienced in the adult groups on the national stage. So, I came back here to Ngā Purapura o te Tai Hauāuru, my current group, but before Ngā Purapura, sorry, let’s go back. We were poached by our mum.

    From our various groups, I was in Te Iti Kahurangi at that time. She really wanted to see all her children and grandchildren perform together, that group is Te Haona Kaha. Te Haona Kaha is still alive today.

    But we aren’t competing at the moment, we have had three competitive campaigns and are yet to make it through.

    Kei te pai a tōna wā ka tika.

    Maybe one day.

    Heoi, kua hoki mātou ki o mātou ake rohe tū ai, i te mea koirā te kai a taku whānau, he haka i te ao i te pō me te aha kua mārama anō mātou i te motu, he oranga tō te kapa haka i te wāhi e noho nā mātou. Nērā, e tautoko rawa ana a māmā i tēnā tikanga me tana kite i te oranga.

    For now, we have all returned to stand in our various regions, as this is our passion, kapa haka day in day out, and we know that we can access kapa haka in our respective regions. Mum also supported that and saw the sense in it.

    Mō ana mokopuna nō reira, koinā te painga o Haka Tū Haka Ora i taua wā i whai wāhi au ki te tū ki te taha o taku tamāhine i Ngā Purapura o Te Tai Hauāuru. I whai wāhi mātou nō mātou te maringa nui ki te whakahoki, te kawe atu i te mate o koro Huirangi, ērā momo tikanga ka maringa nui ki a mātou i tā mātou noho ki konei.

    Ka w’akamārama atu au ki taku tamāhine, anei te tikanga, koinei te tikanga he whakatairanga i ā rātou i para i te huarahi i Taranaki nei, koinei tonu tō iho. Ko te kapa haka i a Nāna, nā Nāna Rita te kapa haka, nā ngā tātai whakapapa i roto i a tātou koirā ngā mea e arahi ana i a tātou ki ngā wāhi ka whakatinanahia, ka whakatairangahia e tātou te kapa haka.

    Āe, he Kahungunu aku tuakana, he Taranaki te toenga o mātou nō reira koirā te take kei konei mātou, he oranga tō te kapa haka me rongo taku hapori, taku iwi o Taranaki me kai taku hapori, taku iwi o Taranaki i te kapa haka. Ka mutu, me tū au mō tērā o ngā kapa haka i whai wāhi au i ngā tau ki muri.

    He wā tōna e hoki mai au i te wā i tō Tamarau taha au, i hoki mai au ki te haka ki Manuariki ki te taha o tērā o ngā kapa. Ko Manuariki anō hoki tētahi kaupapa nui i tō mātou hitori kapa haka, ko Hauraki hoki ngā Hauraki festivals, Manuariki festivals koirā ētahi o ngā whetiw’ara i whai wāhi nui ki tō mātou whānau. Nā reira, i tū au ki tō Ngā Purapura o Te Taihauāuru taha i te wā i puta au i te kura tuarua.

    She saw the sense in it for her grandchildren, that’s what was good about Haka Tū Haka Ora, it allowed me to stand alongside my daughters for Ngā Purapura o Te Tai Hauāuru. We were fortunate enough to carry the late Koro Huirangi on to the stage, that was a big honour for us.

     

    I explained it to my daughter, I said to her this is the protocol, we elevate those that blazed a trail in Taranaki, this is our connection. Kapa haka is from Nāna, Nāna Rita is kapa haka, it is in our DNA, that is what guides us through our kapa haka work.

    My older siblings are Kahungunu, the rest of us are from Taranaki, that’s why we are here, there are heaps of benefits in kapa haka for my community and my iwi, it is only right they share in it. Furthermore, I need to stand for the group I stood for long ago.

    I said I would come back and talk about when I stood for Tamarau, I came back for Manuariki to stand for them. Manuariki was another kaupapa that was big in terms of our kapa haka history, and the Hauraki festivals, all these festivals played a big part in our family. That’s why I stood for Ngā Purapura o Te Tai Hauāuru when I left secondary school.

     ,Nō nā tata nei au ka rongo i taku hokinga ki Ngā Purapura, koirā tōna orokohanga o te kapa me taku mīharo ki tēnā. Ka mea mai a Tamzyn, i karanga mātou ki ngā kīwei ki tērā atu o te kīwei kia haramai ki konei ki te whakatairangi i tēnei o ngā kaupapa o Ngā Purapura o Te Tai Hauāuru. Ko mātou tonu tēnā i i urupare atu i tērā o ngā karanga.

    Kia tū ai tēnei o ngā kapa o Ngā Purapura o Te Tai Hauāuru. Ka hiakai a Te Ingo ki te kapa haka, ka hoki atu anō au ki tērā o ngā kapa me te kawe atu i taku tamāhine kia poipoia ia e ōna whaine e Tamzyn, e Te Aroha, e ōna pāpā. A, ka hoki mai taku teina, ka hoki mai a māmā a, ka tū tahi mātou ko taku teina, ko taku tamāhine mō tēnei o mātou kapa o Ngā Purapura.

    Ana, me o takahanga waewae ki roto i tēnei ara o Te Ao Haka, e pēhea nei ngā hauroto? Ngā kare ā-roto i te wā ka tū mai te teina, ka tū mai te tamāhine ki tō taha. He tuatahitanga tērā mōu

    He tuatahitanga i tēnei taha, āe he rerekē ngā haurongo o roto i au i te wā ka tū tahi mātou ko Te Haona Kaha kapa haka, i runga i te tū o Ngāti Apakura, o Ngāti Hikairo, o Waikato, o Maniapoto.

    I only just found out, upon my return to Ngā Purapura, that that’s how it was created and it made me happy. Tamzyn told me that they had put the call out to all the other relatives to come here and promote Ngā Purapura o Te Tai Hauāuru. We answered that call.

     

    So that Ngā Purapura o Te Tai Hauāuru could stand. Te Ingo longed for kapa haka so I returned to that group and took my daughter so that she could be nurtured by her aunties, Tamzyn and Te Aroha, and her uncles. Then my mum and my younger sister returned and we all stood for Ngā Purapura.

    With all that you’ve experienced in kapa haka, how did you feel? How was it standing with your younger sister and your daughter, that was a first for you aye?

     

    It’s a first on this side, but yes, it was very emotional when we all stood for Te Haona Kaha, representing Ngāti Apakura, Ngāti Hikairo, Waikato and Maniapoto.

    I raro i ōna tāhuhu kōrero, i runga i te whenua i raupatuhia. Koirā ngā haurongo ka rere i roto i Te Ingo, ka tangi a Te Ingo mēnā ko Rangiaowhia te kaupapa, mēnā ko Rākau, ko Waiari te kaupapa. Ko tēnei mea te raupatu, ko tērā kaupapa tētahi o ngā tino kaupapa ka rokiroki i roto i taku puku. I taku hokinga mai ki Taranaki nei.

    me te rongo i ngā hau kei te kite inaianei, ka rongo i ngā haurongo i roto i ngā kōrero mō te Parihakatanga, ngā kōrero o Titokowaru, ngā kōrero o Te Rangitāke e here ana ki ērā o ngā kōrero i kōrerohia e Tawhiao mō te whenua.

    Performing its narrative on the land that was confiscated. Te Ingo felt all of that, she would cry for kaupapa like Rangiaowhia, Ōrākau and Waiari. Confiscation is atopic that really gets me going. When I returned to Taranaki.

     

    And hearing all the news going around, I felt emotional upon hearing the stories about Parihaka, Titokowaru and Te Rangitāke, all connecting to the stories around Tawhiao and land.

    Tēnā koe.

    Thank you.

    Nō reira, koinei ngā haurongo i roto tonu nērā i te kawe, i te pupuru ki ngā kīwei o te kete.

    Mēnā he kete haka, ko te haka pea tonu tērā o ngā tikanga kei roto i tēnei kete ko Taranaki, ko Waikato. He pērā tonu taku kawenga i taku tū i konei ka hoki mahara, ka rongo, a ka whakatinanahia i konei, i tō Taranaki reo, tu.

    These are the emotions that I feel and help me uphold both sides of my kete.

    Whether that kete be a haka one, the haka might be around the protocol in Taranaki and in Waikato. That’s how I approach it, I reminisce, I feel, and then I portray that in my Taranaki dialect.

    Āe, kia ora.

    Thank you.

    Koirā ngā momo haurongo a whānau nei e mōhio ana au, e whakapono ana au he pērā tonu ngā haurongo a Te Wairere  he rerekē pea ki a Nataria i te mea kāore anō ia kia tū atu i Te Haona Kaha. Engari Kāore anō ia kia tū i tōna ake kapa a kura i tōna kotahi. Ko māua ko Te Wairere, āe ko Ngā Taiatea, ko Rākaumangamanga , ko Ngā Pou o Roto, ko Te Iti Kahurangi, ko Te Pou o Mangatāwhiri,   ko Tamarau koirā ngā kapa i whakatangata i a māua ko Te Wairere i te kāinga.

    Kei Te Arawa ia ināianei so watch this space, who knows ka hūpeke a ia ki hea ērāngi, ka hoki mai ki Ngā Purapura, ko tēnā ko te rongo, ko te waiata mō ngā tūpuna o Taranaki.

    Ngā whakapapa, ngā hononga ki W’anganui, ko tana mātāmua nō W’anganui nō reira, ērā momo hononga e rokiroki ana i roto i a mātou, tō mātou whānau.

    Whakapapa, whenua, haka.

    Those are the sorts of emotions my whanau portray, I believe Te Wairere is like that, not sure about Nataria though, she hasn’t stood for Te Haona Kaha yet. But she hasn’t yet stood in a school group on her own. Me and Te Wairere were brought up amongst Ngā Taiatea, Rākaumangamanga, Ngā Pou o Roto, Te Iti Kahurangi, Te Pou o Mangatāwhiri and Tamarau.

     

    She is in Te Arawa now, so watch this space, who knows where she may end up. She may return to Ngā Purapura, that’s what I hear, to sing about Taranaki.

     

    The genealogical connections with Whanganui, the oldest is from Whanganui, those are the sorts of connections we, our family, try to preserve.

    Genealogical connections, land, haka.

    Kei reira.

    That’s where it's at.

    Waiata, ahakoa te aha ka rere a kare ā-roto, te ngahau, te mamae, te pouri, te riri i te tū. E mārama rawa ana mātou ki ērā āhuatanga, e rokiroki ana i roto i a mātou. Engari, e mea ana au kāore i te tino rerekē, he ōrite tonu ngā haurongo

    Waiata, no matter what, it’s emotional, entertaining, hurtful, sad, and angry in the stance. We understand all those traits, and we try to preserve them. But what I am trying to say is that it aint too much different, all the emotions are relatively similar.

    Āe, ka tika. Nō reira, i au e rongo an i ngā kōrero au kua w’akaw’ariki’ia nei, ko taku nei e hiahia ana mau anō rā i tuku i eta’i kōrero ki te ‘unga rangata’i o te takiwā e kīa nei ko Taranaki.

    I te mea nei ‘ei te tau ‘ou e ‘eke mai nei, tau ‘ou Pākehā, ka w’akatarangitia nei tēnei kaupapa Te Ao Haka ki roto i ngā kura katoa o te motu. Me te tonoa, me te wero me kī hoki ki ngā kura o te takiwā o Taranaki nei kia tīkina, kia ‘āpai ake i tēnei kaupapa engari, ko taku ki a koe w’akamō’io atu ki te hunga kaiako, ki te ‘unga ākonga, he aha ai me whai ai rātou i tō rātou ake ao haka.

    Too right. As I listen to what you have shared with us today, what I want to know is what you would say to the younger generation here in Taranaki.

    Because in the coming year, the new Gregorian year, Te Ao Haka becomes a subject in all schools throughout the country. I want to challenge all the schools in the region of Taranaki to really give it a go, and for the teachers to explain to the students the importance of following their own haka journey.

    Hika, kei te ao mātauranga a Te Ingo e mahi ana, mārama pai ana a Te Ingo ki ngā momo tāhuhu kua whakaritea hei whakatinanatanga mā ngā kaiako. Mēnā ko te pāngarau, ko te reo Māori, ko te Ingarihi, ko te pāngarau taku tino, me pēhea te whakawhenumi i ērā akoranga? I whai wāhi au ki Hawai’i i taku tau whakamutunga i te kura, whakawhiti au ki reira ki te kura.

    Tētahi tikanga i mārama mai ki au ko, me kī hei kupu whakarite, ko ngā waka ko ngā kaupapa. Ko taku project, project Makali’i, he mahi whakatere waka hourua taku mahi engari ko ngā tikanga katoa i taiāwhio i a Makali’i. Mēnā ko te karanga, ko te karakia, ko te waiata, ko te hula, ko te mahi kai, te tātai arorangi, marine biology.

    Hika, Te Ingo works in the education sector and knows all too well what is being set up for the teachers to do. Whether maths, the Māori language, English and maths is my favourite, how do I mix those all together? I was fortunate enough to go to Hawaii in my last year of school to learn there.

    One thing I learnt over there, as a sort of a metaphor, is that the waka are projects. My project, project Makali’I, was about sailing double-hulled canoes, but all the aspects associated with it encompassed Makali’i. Karanga, karakia, waiata, hula, mahi kai, astronomy, marine biology as well

    Ērā āhuatanga katoa.

    All of that.

    Ērā āhuatanga katoa nā te waka tonu i arataki i a mātou. Arā, te kalo plantation nērā, i ā rātou e whakatipu ana i te taro, te kalo nō reira, ko ngā marau katoa i taiāwhio i tēnā. E mōhio ana ahau taku whānau, ehara i te mea he kaihaka e hiakai ana aku irāmutu katoa ki te haka, ā, ko māmā tonu te tauira kia kaua e pēhi ki ngā wero.

    O Te Ao Haka engari kia poipoia ki te āhurutanga o Te Ao Haka.

    Āna, ka kite au i aku irāmutu kāore e tū ana i roto i ngā kapa kei te hokihoki mai rātou ki te haka i ngā huritau, i ngā marēnā, nā ka kite au i ō rātou taērā me taku kī, yes boy kei roto tonu i a koe. Aye, you don’t have to go to Matatini or anywhere else, kei roto tonu i a koe e te tau.

    The waka guided me in terms of all of that. They have the kalo plantation, while they are growing taro, the kalo is from there, all of the learnings stem from that. I know my family, and it's not like all of my nieces and nephews are crazy about haka, and my mum is a good example of not forcing people into certain situations.

    In regards to te Ao Haka, but they can be nurtured in the safety of te Ao Haka.

    Yeah, I see all my nieces and nephews that don’t stand for groups doing haka at birthdays and weddings, and I think to myself yes boy, you got it. You don’t have to go to Matatini or anywhere else, it’s in you.

     He aha anō te pātai?

    What was the question again?

    He kupu akiaki

    Words of encouragement.

    Ok, yes hoki mai ao haka mātauranga. Nō reira, i roto anō i tēnā, he aha pea te kaupapa e whai wāhi ai nō reira he mea marau tēnei? He take marau?

    Koirā e toimaha ana mā ngā kaiako e mārama ana au ki ngā āhuatanga whāriterite hōtaka i roto i te kura heoi, haere te kōrero ki a Pāpā Tuki kōrerohia atu ki Te Rangi Rēnāta nō Parihaka.

    He aha ngā kura kei roto i tērā kura e whai ana i te maramataka nērā, e whakahāngai ana nērā? Me wetewetehia ngā ture, ngā tāhuhu Pākehā. Me whakaū anō tātou i aua tikanga mēnā he mahi waka koirā te kaupapa matua, ko haka hei tautoko. Mēnā ko Te Ao Haka te kaupapa matua, ko waka hei tautoko, ko mahi tunu kai hei tautoko, ko mahi maara hei tautoko.

    Mēnā ko maara kai te marau matua, ko haka hei tautoko, ko waka hei tautoko i tērā, i te whakatinanatanga o tērā. Nō reira, he mahi āta whakariterite hei mahi mā ngā tumuaki, mā ngā kaiako kia kotahi anō ai ngā marau. He wero nui, mōhio ana au he wero nui tēnā engari, e mea ana au he rongoā, he oranga tō Te Ao Haka i te mea i whai ora mātou i tēnā.

    Nā, he māmā takakau taku māmā, tokowaru ōna tamariki mēnā kāore o mātou kaumatua, pāhake  i reira ki te poipoi i a māmā ka mutu, te poipoi i tōna pā harakeke, e kore mātou e ora i tēnei ao, nā te haka tonu tēnā i whai kaha ai mātou ki te whakaako.

    Nā te haka i whai kaha ai mātou, he aha atu ngā marau o tō mātou whānau? Ko te whakaako pea te tino mahi o taku whānau nō reira, nā te haka i whai kaha ai mātou ki te whakaako i te tangata, i ngā tamariki, i te rangatahi. Kua neke atu i te tekau tau au e whakaako ana i te reo i roto i ngā whare wānanga me te aha, nō tēnei tau tonu au ka tīpako noa i ngā waiata hei whakahaere i aku akoranga o ia wiki.

    Mihi ana ki Iwi Anthems nērā, e mihi ana, he puna rauemi kei reira e taea ana e tātou te hanga i tērā rauemi hei whakaaweawe i te rangatahi, i te ohinga. Te mihi ki ngā kapa o Taranaki kei reira hoki te rautaki, he aha te rautaki haka o Taranaki?

    Ok, yes let’s return to te Ao Haka in education. So, in saying that, so does this become a subject? A subject in the curriculum?

    I know that’s why it is hard for the teachers to create a programme for it in the schools, but when word got to Pāpā Tuki he said talk to Te Rangi Rēnāta from Parihaka.

     

    What are the schools that are similar that follow the Māori maramataka, that use it as a reference? The rules and western regulations must be stripped back. Protocol must take precedence for instance if waka was the core subject, then haka would be an optional subject. If Te Ao Haka was the core subject, then waka, mahi tunu kai and mahi maara would be the optional subjects.

    If maara kai was the core subject, then haka and waka would be the optionals. So, it’s a big job for principals and teachers to prepare and unify the subjects for the curriculum. It’s a big job, but very rewarding. There is value in Te Ao Haka because we have benefited from it.

     

    My mum is a solo mum, she has eight children, if our elders weren’t there to help care for our mum and help our mum care for her family, we wouldn’t be here, haka gave us strength.

     

    We drew strength from haka, what were some of the other learnings that our whānau took away? I think teaching is a big thing in our family, so haka gave us the courage to teach people, the children and the youth. I’ve been teaching te reo for over ten years at tertiary level and only this year have I started to use waiata to enforce my weekly teachings.

    Big ups to Iwi Anthems aye, that’s an example of a resource we can use to inspire the youth. I must also acknowledge the groups here in Taranaki, that is also a strategy, but what is the haka strategy of Taranaki?

    Anā rā te pātai matua o ngā pātai ‘uri rauna, ‘uri āwhio ‘oki i te maunga nei aye. 

    That’s the million-dollar question around here aye,

    Koia.

    You bet.

    Nō reira, ki te aro tātou ki tērā rautaki, ki tētahi rautaki e kite pea ai tātou i te tāheketanga me ko Koro Taranaki tērā rautaki nērā, ko ngā atua, ko ngā atua anahe ka haere ki te tihi o Taranaki. He tangata noa kei te pūtake koe e haere ana, e whai koe i ērā pūkenga i ngā wharekura e āmio ana i a Koro Taranaki nō tērā whare.

    Ngā mau o tērā whare, ngā poi o tērā whare, ngā waiata o tērā whare i te pūtake tonu. Anā, he aha rawa te rautaki kia whanake ake ki tērā taumata? I nōhia e Koro Napi. Ko ia tētahi o ngā tino pou o Te Ao Haka i Taranaki nei. Ngā whakaahua, me pēhea tō tātou hoki anō ki New Plymouth Māori Cultural Club.

    If we look at that strategy, use it as a way of transmission like the Taranaki mountain aye, and the atua, only atua go to the top. Mere mortals are at the base searching for that knowledge around Taranaki from that house.

     

    The various wieldings of that house, the poi, the songs are at the base. What is the strategy to ascend to that level? The level of Koro Napi. He was one of the greats of Te Ao Haka in Taranaki. The photos, how do we get back to the days of the New Plymouth Māori Cultural Club.

    Āna rā!

    Yes!

    Me te tiki ake i ērā whakaahua, hika kei roto i te whare o taku matua i te mea i tū taku kui, te māmā o taku pāpā, i whai ia i a Koro Napi i tēnei peka. Koirā ngā kōrero whakaaweawe i a Te Ingo me te haka engari me pēhea tā tātou whakangahau?

    Pātea Māori Club tēnā koutou, tēnā rawa atu koutou e whakaaweawe tonu ana i te ao nā, me pēhea tā tātou whakarauora anō i ērā waiata i roto i te uki whaimuri?

    He aha te tū o Taranaki? He aha te reo o Taranaki? Kāore anō kia purangiaho mai tērā pikitia ki a Te Ingo.

    Kia mārama tēnā ki a tātou, ki reira kite ai tātou i te rautaki e whai hua ana i roto i ngā kura tuarua i te mea, ko ngā kaiako me poipoia ērā kaiako.

    Me whai kaiako, koirā hoki te wero kāore he kaiako Māori e whai pūkenga haka ana i ngā kura aunoa, kāore.

    Toru anahe ngā kura, ngā wharekura i Taranaki whānui: Ngāmotu, Arakamu, Hawērā, koirā te pikitia. Ko te nuinga he kura aunoa, tokohia tātou e haere ki ngā kura aunoa whakaako ai? Nērā, ko ngā matua e piri ana ki ngā kura kaupapa, ko ngā kaiako e hoki ana ki ngā kura kaupapa kei reira te mātotorutanga o ngā kōrero, o ngā tikanga.

    Heoi anō, me pēhea tā tātou poipoi i ērā kaiako e aro ana, e kaingākau ana ki ā tātou uki kei roto i ngā kura aunoa? He wero tēnā.

    We need to get all those photos, some are at my dad’s house because my nan stood, my dads mum, she followed Koro Napi down this way. Those are Te Ingo’s gems of encouragement for haka, but what about the entertainment aspect?

    I must acknowledge the Pātea Māori Club who keep inspiring throughout the world, but the question is, how do we revitalise those songs again in the years to come?

    What is Taranaki’s stance? What is Taranaki’s dialect? That picture is still unclear for Te Ingo.

     

    If we all acknowledge that, only then can we sort out a strategy that benefits our secondary schools, because we must look after our teachers.

     

    You must have teachers, that’s the challenge, there aren’t any Māori teachers that are adequate enough at kapa haka in mainstream schools, there are none.

     

    There are only three wharekura in all of Taranaki: Ngāmotu, Arakamu and Hawērā, that’s it. The rest are mainstream schools, how many of us are going to go to a mainstream school to teach? All the parents are supporting kura kaupapa, all the teachers are returning to kura kaupapa, that’s where the depth of narrative and tikanga is.

     

    How are we going to support the teachers who are passionate about the future of our mainstream schools? That’s the challenge.

    Āe.

    Yes.  

    He wero nui, koinā te wero. Me te aha, ngā tahua pūtea kei roto i ngā kura ki te poipoi i ērā marau. E mōhio ana au kei te wero a pāngarau mō tana tahua pūtea. Engari he aha ērā tahua pūtea hei poipoi?

    If there is a big challenge, that’s it. Furthermore, the funding in those schools to properly cater to those subjects. I know maths needs more funding. But what are the only subjects that need funding?

    Ki te tīkina atu tērā tauira a te kāwanatanga, whakakotahihia ngā tari nērā, tō rātou moni rangatahi mai i a Hauora, mai i a Mātauranga aha rānei, whakakotahihia tērā pūtea e aro ana ki te rangatahi. Me pērā tātou, whakakotahihia tētahi momo pūtea hei tautoko i a Te Ao Haka, me tautoko a pāngarau i Te Ao Haka.

    I roto i te raranga i aku whāriki i roto i te whatu i aku piupiu kei reira te kounga o te pāngarau, i te whatu korowai kei reira te kounga o te pāngarau. Me koi ake tātou ki te whakawhenumi i ngā marau ko Te Ao Haka te pou.

    If we were to look at what the government does, they combine all their offices, all the youth funding is put together, whether it be for Health or Education, it's all put together to help the youth. We should do the same, combine all the funding to support Te Ao Haka, like I said, even maths should support Te Ao Haka.

    Quality mathematics is the weaving of mats, piupiu and korowai. We must be smarter in how we operate, using Te Ao Haka as the centre.

    e rawe tēnā aye hei kapohanga kōrero w’akamutunga mā tātou, ko Te Ao Haka te pou. Nō reira, ngā mōtoi kura, ngā kōkō tangiwai, ngā kuru pounamu ku ‘ora’ia nei e koe te w’anaunga, Te Ingo, tēnei rā te mi’i atu ki a koe, oti noa ō paranga ma’a kua mauria mai, kua keri anō rā, ki waenganui i a mātou i te ahiahi, i te āta nei tēnā rawa atu koe e te w’anaunga, tēnā ‘oki koutou e ngā kai’āpai o Te Ao Haka. Mauri ora!

    That’s an awesome way to finish off this interview, with you saying that Te Ao Haka should be the centre. Te Ingo, my deepest thanks to you for sharing all your gems, your words of wisdom and your experiences, my relation you have my heartfelt gratitude for everything you have shared this afternoon and this morning, and to all the people behind the scenes of Te Ao Haka. Thank you all.

    Tēnā koe

    Thank you.

    [ Accordion ]

    Intro while music plays are shots of a bridge over the river, over to a shot overlooking the ocean and beaches. Then a closeup of a carving, then a significant building in Opotiki on to the road sign for Opotiki. Panning shots of a historical painting, then back to the river and barge. We then have a soaring shot of a bird eye view of the Opotiki district, into a pan shot of a church and carvings that are landmarks in this area. Shots of the skate part which contains carved pou situated in the skate part ending that shot with a closeup of one of the pou. Ending the intro on a shot overlooking the ocean and beach coming down to the carved pou with the words Te Whakatōhea on the screen. Closing it off with the words on the screen Te Ao Haka with the logo for Te Ao Haka

    Te Reo Māori

    Te Reo Pākehā

    Arā ka ū ki tai, ka ū ki uta. Ka ū mai ki Te Whakatōhea. Anō ngā pūawai kei te tūwhera roa.

     

    Kei te mau atu i te rau o te karaka. Ka tau te kūkupa ki runga i te pae. Ki te aroaro o ngā mātua ki roto o Ōpōtiki e hai!

     

    Tēnā rā e kōrua ngā iho pūmanawa nō roto hoki o tēnei tāonga e kīia nei ko Te Ao Haka.

     

    Nā mātou te maringanui me te whiwhi kua tae nei kōrua ki te noho ngātahi, me te whakawhiti kōrero mō tēnei tāonga nā mātou, nā ngā tūpuna i tuku iho mai, nō reira ka tika me mihi ki a kōrua.

     

    Tēnā whakamārama mai ki te hunga e mātakitaki mai nei.  Ko wai kōrua? Nō hea kōrua?

    Traveling at sea, landing ashore, landing in Te Whakatōhea, the flowers are blossoming

     

    Grasping the leaf of the karaka, the kūkupa bird settles on the bench, in the presence of the ancestors of Ōpōtiki

     

    Greetings to you both, both idols in the kapa haka world.

     

    It’s our honour and privilege to have you here today to talk to us about this pastime handed down to us by the ancestors.

     

    Could you start by explaining to the audience who you are and where you come from?

    Kāti ake, tēnā koe. Nau mai rā ki te rohe o Te Whakatōhea, e kīia nei mai te koko ki Ōhiwa, ki Tarakeha maunga. 

     

    Haere mai rā ki ana uri, ki ngā uri a Muriwai e noho nei, e whakatau nei i a koe. Haere mai rā, kia mihia koe e ōna maunga, kia mihia koe e tirotiro whetū, e Pukenui-o-Raho. Ki uta rā, kei te take ko Mātītī maunga, kei te take o Ruahema.

     

    Kia tū mai rā koe ki runga i te papa tapu o Ngāti Ira o Waioeka, ki runga o Ōpeke. Kia hāngai atu to titiro ki raro rā, kei runga o Waioeka, ko Uru Ariki. Kei raro iho rā, kei Te Rere Mōari, ko Whiripare. Kia tū mai rā koe ki runga i te papa tapu o Ngāti Ngahere.

     

    Kia anga atu rā tō titiro ki tōna maunga tapu, i a Maungārangi. Huri tonu atu rā ki Te Tairāwhiti, ki te rohe rāhui, kei runga rā ko Mākeo maunga. Kia tū mai rā koe ki runga o Waiaua, Waiaua te rere nei, Waiaua e mihi nei ki a koe.

     

    Te Urunga tapu, te urunga i okioki ai ā Mokomoko me tāna whare ko Ruamoko. Hāngai tonu atu rā ki runga ake ki Mihi Mārino, ki Ōmarumutu kia tū mai rā koe ki te tangata weriweri rā i a Tū Tāmure. Haere mai ki āna mokopuna, otirā haere mai rā koe ki tēnei e noho nei.

     

    E kīia nei ko Tarakeha te maunga.   Ko Ōpepe te awa. Ko Ōpape te marae, he marae rāhui. He patu i runga i te hē, he patu i runga i te harakore. Ko Ngai Tamahaua te iwi. Nō reira, haere mai rā koe ki Te Whakatōhea.

     

    Ko Paora Brosnan tōku ingoa. He uri tēnei nō Te Whakatōhea, otirā nō Mātaatua waka, mai i Ngā Kuri a Whārei ki Tihirau. Nō reira ko te kura iti tēnei e mihi ana. Nau mai rā e te kura roa, nau mai rā e te kura nui. Kia tū tahi tātou ki roto i tāna rohe, ki kōnei ki Pākowhai nei, ki kōnei ki Pākowhai nei.

     

    Kia eke ai te kōrero, ‘ka tū au ka korikori, ka puta te rongo o Taranaki e hau mai nei’.

    Kāti ake, tēnā rā koe.

    Greetings. Welcome to the Te Whakatōhea region, it’s said the region extends from Ōhiwa Bay to Mt Tarakeha.

     

    The descendants of Muriwai sitting here welcome you. Welcome here so you may be greeted by the mountains Tirotirowhetū and Pukenui-o-Raho. Ashore is Mt Mātītī at the base of Ruahema.

     

     

    Stand on the sacred lands of Ngāti Ira of Waioeka at Ōpeke. Look directly to Uru Ariki above Waioeka Below is Whiripare at Te Rere Mōari. Stand on the sacred lands of Ngāti Ngahere.

     

     

    Look towards their sacred mountain Maungarangi. Turn to the East Coast to the prohibited area at Mt Mākeo. Stand at Waiaua, Waiaua flows here greeting you.

     

     

    It is the pillow where Mokomoko rests in his house Ruamoko. Travel onwards to Mihi Mārino, to Ōmarumutu, to meet the fearsome Tū Tāmure. Come to his descendants and meet this one sitting here now.

     

    Tarakeha is the mountain, Ōpape is the river, Ōpape is the marae, it’s a prohibited marae. A wrongful conviction, an innocent execution. Ngāi Tamahaua is the tribe. Welcome to Te Whakatōhea.

     

     

    My name is Pāora Brosnan. I am a descendant of Te Whakatōhea, of the Mātaatua canoe, who reside in the region that extends from Ngā Kurī a Whārei to Tihirau. I greet you in humility. Welcome, my esteemed guest. Here we stand together in the region of Pākōwhai.

     

    So that I might exclaim, I stand, I move, I hear the news of Taranaki.

    Greetings.

    Tēnā rawa atu koe e te tuakana. Anō nei ki a koe taku tuahine.

    Greetings to you my senior and to you, my sister.

    Ko Taranaki te maunga. Ko Waitotoroa te awa. Ko Parihaka te marae. Ko Kurahaupō te waka.

    Ko Ngāti Moeahu, ko Ngāti Haupoto ngā hapū.

     

    Ko tāua tēnei. He uri ahau, he mokopuna ahau nō te maunga tītōhea, ā Taranaki

    Taranaki is the mountain, Waitōtara is the river, Parihaka is the marae, Kurahaupō is the canoe.

    Ngāti Moeahu and Ngāti Haupoto are my subtribes.

     

    We are one. I am a descendant of the barren mountain Taranaki.

    I pakeke mai ahau i Parihaka, i raro i ngā rekereke o aku kaumātua.

     

    Ko Ria Brosnan tōku ingoa.

    I was raised in Parihaka by my elders.

     

    My name is Ria Brosnan.

    Tēnā rawa atu koe, oti noa kōrua.

     

    Nā mātou te hōnore, nā mātou te whiwhi, tā te mea nei i parahia nei kōrua i te huarahi e kīia nei ko te ao haka.

     

    I mua i tā kōrua pirihanga, he huarahi anō tā Paora, he huarahi anō tāu. Nō reira ko tā mātou i te rangi nei kia kaurukutia i ngā wheako kua puta mai ia kōrua huarahi. Anō nei te anga whakamua, mō ēnei ngā tamariki mokopuna e pakeke mai nei, e tupu haere i roto i tēnei tāonga e kīia nei ko Te Ao Haka.

     

    Nō reira ko tātou tēnei mō te rāngi nei. Nō reira me ū tonu tēnei waka ki tō tātou nei pātai tuatahi. E kōrero ana mō ō kōrua wheako.  Anā ngā whaiarotanga i puta mai i roto i tō kōrua ao haka.

     

    Nō reira āwhea koe ka tīmata? Ngā tukuihotanga nā ngā kaiako, nā ngā tūpuna, nā ngā tohunga o aua wā i tupu ai kōrua i roto i ō kōrua ake ao haka. Nā konā mai ai ka kite ai tātou te huarahi e kōrero nei mō te anga whakamua mo ngā tamariki.

     

    Nō reira me tīmata ki te orokohanga mai o tō ao haka e te tuakana, tēnā kōrero mai.

    Greetings to you both.

     

    It’s our honour and privilege to be here because you’ve both paved a pathway forward in the kapa haka world.

     

    Before you got together, Pāora was on his own pathway, and you were on yours. We would like to delve into the things you’ve both experienced in your journeys. In looking forward, this will benefit future generations who are growing up pursuing kapa haka.

     

    This is us for the day, so let’s get into the first question. What are your own personal experiences doing haka?

     

     

    When did you start? What has been passed onto you by your tutors, your ancestors and the experts who helped raise you in kapa haka? In starting here future generations might see a path to follow.

     

    Tell me, where did it all begin for you?

    Tuatahi ake, kei te hoki aku mahara. Heoi anō nōku e tamariki ana, ehara au pea i te tangata hakahaka. Kaua ko te kapa haka e mōhiotia nei tātou i tēnei rā, engari he tamaiti i tipu i runga i ngā marae o Te Whakatōhea. 

     

    Ko taku ataamira ko Te Pae Tapu, nā te mea ko au te mōkai o taku koroua i a Mātenga Pītara, i te wā i a ia, heoi anō, i runga anō i ngā āhuatanga o te raupatu o Te Whakatōhea.

     

    Ka heke, ka heke tērā pōharatanga ki roto i te whakapapa tonu o taku whānau. Ka tahuri atu rā taku koroua i tētahi rangi, ka kite i te pōharatanga o tana iwi, o tana hapū o Ngāi Tama.

     

    Engari ko au i te noho i tana taha, anā kāre au i mōhio mēnā kua tohua e te Atua aha rānei, engari i reira. Nō reira ka pakeke mai ahau I roto I te hāhi. 

     

    Tēnā oro, āhua rite nei te kawe a te Ringatū i o rātou hīmene, ō rātou pāni, ō rātou waiata, pēnei anō, āhua pēnei anō me ngā mōteatea.

     

    Nō reira pakeke mai ahau i runga i te marae, te ao haka o te marae e āhua rerekē anā, i te tūnga i runga i te atamira. Nō konā i ako ai he aha te rongoā o tēnei mea te karanga? He aha te rongoā o tēnei mea te whaikōrero? He aha tēnei mea te mōteatea? He aha tenei mea te tauparapara?

     

    He pēhea rā e whakaeke tika ana koe ki runga i ngā kaupapa, kaua ko te mate noa iho? Koirā te whakeke e mōhio whānuitia ana e te iwi Māori nēra?

     

    Te whakaeke ki runga i te mate, engari arā anō ngā whakaekenga rerekē ki runga i ō tātou marae. Kei te kaupapa. Kei te kaupapa e mōhio ai koe ka pēhea rā koe tō whakaeke ki runga i te marae.

     

    Mā te kaupapa e ārahi, e ārahi i te whakaaro. Nō reira nō konā e, e mea atu ana ā taku ao Māori, koirā te ao i tipu nei ahau.

     

    Ka pakeke mai ahau, ka pīrangi ahau te rite ki ngā Māori o tētahi taha ōku, ki runga o Ruatāhuna.

     

    Firstly, I’m thinking back. When I was little, I wasn’t much of haka person. Not the type of kapa haka we’re all familiar with now but I did grow up on marae in Te Whakatōhea.

     

     

    The speaker’s bench was the stage, I was my grandfather’s pet, his name was Mātenga Pītara. However, due to the confiscation of land within Te Whakatōhea.

     

    we grew up in poverty. One day my grandfather noticed how impoverished his tribe and subtribe of Ngāi Tama were.

     

    I was with him at the time, I’m not sure if it was a sign from God. So, I grew up in the church.

     

     

    That sound, it’s similar to the way the Ringatū sing their hymns and songs, it’s similar to our traditional chants.

     

    So, I grew up on the marae, the world of haka on the marae is somewhat different to what’s performed on stage. I learnt about karanga and whaikōrero. I learnt about mōteatea and tauparapara.

     

     

    I learnt how one should ascend the marae properly depending on the occasion, not just for the funeral. That’s the occasion most Māori are familiar with, right?

     

    Ascending the marae at the funeral but there are many other ways to go onto the marae. It depends entirely on the occasion. In knowing the occasion, you know how to ascend the marae.

     

    The occasion will guide you and your thoughts. So, I grew up immersed in a Māori world.

     

     

    In growing up, I wanted to learn more about my other side from Ruatāhuna.

    Reka katoa tērā kapa ki ahau i te mea, ki ahau i taua wā ko rātou te kapa haka Māori o ngā kapa haka katoa.

     

    Nō reira ka mea atu au ki taku koroua, anā kei kōnei kē māua e noho ana. “Kei te pīrangi au te haere pērā atu ki Ruatāhuna.”

     

    Ka noho mai, “Aaa! He aha ai e haere pērā atu rā koe?” “Kei te pīrangi au te tū pēnā i a rātou.” Ka mutu te tū Māori ko rātou, ko rātou ngā whetu tārake ki au i taua wā.

     

    Ka mea mai “Kāo, kāo, ahakoa ērā pānga ōu ki reira he tamaiti koe nā Te Whakatōhea.

     

    E haere koe ki tō pāpā i a Te Kahautu, arā tō tīma i a Ōpōtiki mai Tawhiti” me taku kore pīrangi te haere pērā atu.

     

    Heoi anō, ehara i te mea e tāreka e te mokopuna te whakakāhore i te tohutohu ā te koroua. Nō reira i whakarongo ki taku koroua i haere pērā atu. Nō reira nā taku pāpā rā i a Te Kahautu taku Ao Haka i whakaahua.

     

    Nānā i whakakaupapa ngā whakahaerenga o tana kapa. Te āhua o tana tātaki, te āhua o tana whakaako, te āhua o tana whakatakoto kōrero, te āhua o tana hanganga whakaaturanga.

     

    Nō konā i tīmata ai te kite, te ako i tēnei mea te hakahaka. Nō reira ka tipu mai ahau, ahakoa ētahi wā ka tū ahau i roto i ngā kura, arā anō atu i wēnā engari, nā Ōpōtiki mai Tawhiti ahau i whakatewhatewha.

     

    Nā rātou anō ahau i whakakoikoi, ā nō konā i tipu ake ai te arohanui ki tēnei mea te kapa haka. Ka mutu ka noho ko rātou tonu. Ko aku kōka wēnā, ko aku mātua wēnā, ko aku tuākana, ko aku tuāhine wēnā, ko aku tēina wēnā, ko aku irāmutu wēnā.

     

    Nō reira nō konā i tīmata ai te aroha nui ki tēnei mea te kapa haka, nāwai rā ka mahi i te mahi. Ka tū i roto i ngā rārangi, ka mutu ka tere ahau ki te ako i ngā āhuatanga o te ao kapa haka.

     

    Engari ko taku tūapapa ko te marae, ngā āhuatanga o te marae, pērā anō ngā kapa haka katoa o te motu. I tīmata i rungā i ngā marae. Nō reira nāwai rā ka eke au, ka tīmata au ki te whakawā i ngā tamariki, i ngā pakeke. Anā ka tīmata hoki au te whakatakoto kōrero mō Ōpōtiki mai Tawhiti.

     

    Ētahi wā kei te pīrangi a Te Kahautu ētahi kōrero, mehemea i au te kōrero ka hoatu ki a ia. Ka mahi tahi ētahi wā, ētahi wā ka kite au i ētahi āhuatanga o te kapa haka. Ka mea atu au ki a Te Kahautu “me pēnei, me pēnā”.

     

    Nō kona i tīmata ai ki te tito waiata, ki te hanga ringaringa, ki te hanga nekeneke. Anō nei rā, koirā taku tipuranga i roto i te ao Māori, ka mutu ko te ao kapa haka.

    I think they’re an excellent group, I thought they were the most Māori kapa haka out of all of the groups at the time.

     

    I said to my grandfather, we were living here at the time, I want to go to Ruatāhuna.

     

     

    He replied, “Aaa! Why do you want to go there?” “I want to perform like them.” They perform in a Māori way. They stood out from the rest.

     

    He told me, “No, despite having connections there, you are a descendant of Te Whakatōhea.”

     

    Go to your Uncle Te Kahautu, your group is Ōpōtiki-mai-tawhiti but I didn’t want to go there.

     

     

    However, the grandchild has no right to deny the instructions of his grandfather. So, I listened to my grandfather and went there. Therefore, it was my Uncle Te Kahautu who fashioned everything I know about kapa haka.

     

    He facilitated the operations of his team. Based on his leadership, his teachings, the way he presents things and the way he creates the performance.

     

    That’s where I started to learn about kapa haka. I grew from there. I performed for school teams from time to time but it was Ōpōtiki-mai-tawhiti that really taught me everything.

     

    They sharpened me up and from there my love for kapa haka grew. I have stayed with them since, they are my aunties, my uncles, my seniors, my sisters, my juniors, my nephews and nieces.

     

     

    My love for kapa haka continued to grow from there and over time I got stuck in. I stood in the lines and picked things up quickly.

     

    But the aspects learnt on the marae was my foundation, like all groups throughout the country. It all started on the marae. In time, I progressed and started to judge both children’s and adult competitions. I also started giving narratives about Ōpōtiki-mai-tawhiti. 

     

    Sometimes Te Kahautu would want a narrative, which I would give if I had it. We worked together, sometimes I would see certain things in the group and would say to Te Kahautu, “let’s do this or that.”

     

     

    Then I started composing, creating actions and choreography. That was my upbringing in the Māori world and the kapa haka world.

    Rawe katoa taua tūāpapa, hei oranga mōu anō hoki mō ngā whakatupuranga āu e ‘aere ake nei. Nā reira mai te Tairāwhiti ka aro te titiro ki Te Tai Hauāuru.

     

    I runga i te mea nei e te tua’ine, koiā rā te orokohanganga mai o tō mahi haka. Tēnā kōrero mai.

    What an excellent foundation for yourself and the future generations to come. We turn from the East Coast to the West Coast.

     

    Because that’s where it all started for you, my sister. Tell us about it.

    I tīmata taku ao haka i Te Kōhanga Reo.

    Haka for me started at Kōhanga Reo.

    Te Kōhanga reo ō?

    Which Kōhanga Reo?

    Te Namu ki Ōpunaki, i raro iho i ngā rekereke ō aku kaumātua. Ko au hoki tērā i omaoma haere ki Parihaka. I rongo au i ērā kōrero, i rongo au i te poi manu.

    Te Namu in Ōpunake. We were taught by the elders. I would visit Parihaka and hear the histories and the poi manu.

    Nā korā i mōhio au koirā taku ao.   E mātaki ana i aku kaumātua e mahi poi ana, e waiata ana, e karakia ana. Nā reira i tipu ake tērā hiahia ki roto i ahau.

     

    Kātahi rā ka hūnuku ki te kura kaupapa, i mahi haka ki reira, ki te taha o aku hoa, Wētahi wā kāre au te tino hiahia. Ko au tera e tangi ana, ka tangi ahau.

     

    Ko tā rātou he akiaki i au ki te tīmata i tētahi waiata. Ko tāku ka noho noa, ka tangi. Ka haere au ki te Tonga, ki Taranaki, ki te Tonga, ka kuraina ki tētahi atu kura kaupapa, ki tō kuia taha, i a Nanny Kahu.

     

    Koia i whakapono, koia i pūmau ia ki au. I kī mai ia ki au “He tāonga nui tāu”. Nā konā i puāwai, i puāwai anō, i puta i taku anga. E rongo ana au i te aroha. I rongo au i tana whakapono nui ki au. Koirā taku ao haka.

     

    I hūnuku au ki Waitara, ka tū au mō tētahi kapa pakeke me kī. Nāwai rā ka tūtaki au i tēnei.  Ko te mahi haka, i tūtaki māua tahi.

    That’s the world I knew. I would watch the elders doing the poi, waiata and karakia. And from there I grew passionate about these things.

     

    I did kapa haka at kura kaupapa with my friends. I didn’t want to do it all of the time. I would cry.

     

     

    They would encourage me to start a waiata but I would just sit there and cry. I moved to the south of Taranaki where I attended a kura kaupapa with my grandmother, Nanny Kahu.

     

    She believed in me and stayed close to me. She told me, “You have a gift.” I grew from there and eventually came out of my shell. I felt her love and her belief in me. That was my experience.

     

     

    I moved to Waitara and performed for an adult team. Eventually I met this one. We met through kapa haka.

    Nā te aroha o te haka i tūtaki kōrua? Nā te aroha i runga i te haka ka arohāina ai kōrua? He aha rā, he aha rā?

    Was it your love for kapa haka that bought you two together? 

    Paora:

     

    I te mahi hakahaka māua tahi, heoi anō, ko tana kapa i taua wā ko Ngā Purapura o te Taihauāuru. Kāre au te paku mōhio ki tēnei kapa, heoi anō, i te noho tahi māua ko tētahi o wāna karangarua ki te wāhi kotahi.

     

    I te pureihia mai te rīpene o tō rātou poi ki runga i te tīwī i te kāinga. Ka mea atu “A ko wai tēnei tīma?”. Ka mea mai taku hoa “Ko taku whānau tērā ko Ngā Purapura o te Taihauāuru”. “Nō hea kē rātou?” “Nō Taranaki”. I te mātakitaki ka kite au i a Ria. Ka mea “he aha tana nama?”.

     

    Nāwai rā ko māua wēnei, heoi anō, nā te mahi hakahaka anō māua i piri, i tūtaki i te wā tuatahi.

    I te mea kua kite au i a ia i roto i ngā mahi hakahaka, engari kāre anō kia tūtaki ā-tinana nei.

    Nō reira ko te whakatutukihana ō tērā ko te koroneihana.

     

    Ko wā māua mahi he haere ki reira te hakahaka mō wā māua iwi, heoi anō, koirā te tūtakihana tuatahi mā māua. Nō reira i ngā tau, atu i ngā tau e rua kua pahure ake, kua tae ake māua ki ngā koroneihana katoa o Kīngi Tūheitia.

     

    He mea nui kātahi te Kīngitanga ki a māua. He mea nui te tautoko i te Kīngitanga ki a māua.

    Ka mutu iho noa māua i runga i ngā mahi a te koroneihana, ko te kapa haka tērā.

    Paora:

     

    We were both doing haka, however her team at the time was Ngā Purapura-o-te-Taihauāuru. I had no idea who they were, however, I was hanging out with some of her cousins at the time.

     

     

    They were playing the video of their poi on the TV at home. I asked, “Who’s this team?” My mate told me, “This is my family Ngā Purapura-o-te-Taihauāuru.” “Where are they from?” “They’re from Taranaki.” I saw Ria as I was watching and asked for her number.

     

    We eventually got together, we met and came to be together through kapa haka.

    I had seen him in kapa haka but I had never met him personally. 

    We met at the Coronation.

     

    We went there to perform for our people and that’s where we first met. Excluding the last two years, we’ve attended all of King Tūheitia’s coronations.

     

     

    Supporting the Kīngitanga is important to both of us. 

    We met at the Coronation through kapa haka.

    Āe. Love story o Te Ao Haka tēnā. Nō reira nā mātou te maringa nui kia rongo ai i ērā kōrero.

     

    Nō reira i piri ai kōrua ki te koroneihana. Tūtaki tuatahi, anā i piri ai, i hūnuku ai koe ki roto ki tēnei o ngā takiwā e kīia nei ko Te Whakatōhea. Anā kātahi anō koe ka kōrero mō o wheako ki raro i te maru o tō maunga.

     

    Tēnā kōrero mai mō ngā rerekētanga i kite nei koe mō Te Ao Haka, noa iho, e kite nei koe i roto i Te Whakatōhea ki tērā o Taranaki?

    Well, a true kapa haka love story. We’re lucky to hear it.

     

    So, you got together at the Coronation. You met, got together and then did you move to this area, to Te Whakatōhea? You’ve just spoken about your experiences under the mantle of your mountain.

     

    Tell us about the differences you experienced in kapa haka in Te Whakatōhea compared to Taranaki.

    Rerekē katoa te tū o Taranaki ki tō te tū ā Te Whakatōhea.

    Taranaki performance style is completely different to Te Whakatōhea.

    Tēnā w’akatauira mai.

    Please, demonstrate.

    Ria:

     

    Well, ko tā mātou i Taranaki kaua e hiki i te wae, i o waewae, i o kēkē kaua e whakaatu i o kēkē.

    Ria:

     

    In Taranaki, we don’t lift the feet and we don’t show the armpits.

    Engari i kōnei me tū pakari. He pērā te hanga o Muriwai.

     

    I hoki mai au ki tō Paora taha, i te haka ia mō Ōpōtiki mai Tawhiti. I haria a Pao i au ki tōna parakatihi tuatahi, tōku parakatahi tuatahi, engari ko au tēnā te noho noa, te mātaki i a ia.

     

    Ka haere au ki te parakatihi o Ōpōtiki mai Tawhiti me te whakamā, whakamā katoa ahau. Koirā te wā tuatahi ka tūtaki i wana karangarua, i tana whānau. Nā reira i haere au ki te parakatihi, noho noa, whakarongo ki ngā kōrero nō te mea i mōhio pū au me ako au i tēnei taha, me ako au i te tū ā Te Whakatōhea.

     

    Nā tō māua piri tahi, honotahi, me pērā ahau, nō te mea i mōhio au ka tū au ki tō Te Whakatōhea taha i ngā tau e heke mai nei. I tūwhera au i taku ngākau ki ērā akoranga, hei tuara mōna, mō ā māua tamariki.

     

    Erangi kāre anō kia whānau mai wētahi tamariki. Erangi me pērā ahau e tiro whānui ana ahau ki ērā.

    Here however, one must stand firm like Muriwai.

     

    I came here with Pāora who was performing for Ōpōtiki-mai-tawhiti. He took me to my first practice, I just sat and watched.

     

    I was very shy at the Ōpōtiki-mai-tawhiti practice. That was my first time meeting his family. I sat and listened at that practice because I was adamant I was going to learn how to perform as Te Whakatōhea.

     

     

    Because we were together, I knew the time would come when I would perform with him for Te Whakatōhea. I took on the teachings with an open heart to support him and our children.

     

     

    We didn’t have children at the time. But that was me thinking of the bigger picture.

    Ka tika. Tēnā koia rā tāku e hiahia nei kia kōrero ngātahi tātou i te rangi nei, ko te anga whakamua i roto i ēnei mahi.

     

    Nō reira marama ai tātou i roto i ngā kōrero kua hora nei ē kōrua. He kaihaka, he kaihāpai i ngā mahi o te hakahaka, he kaitito, he kaiako, he kaiwhakawā.

     

    Ināia tonu nei ko te anga w’akamua mō ngā tamariki. Ko tāku pīrangi ināianei, kia kōrero tātou mō te koke a te rangatahi me te tamariki e ako ana i Te Ao Haka i ō rātou kura. Me pēhea tā tātou poapoa, whakakite rānei i tēnei ao nō ngā tamariki kāore tonu pea i te mōhio ki tēnei ao.

     

     

    He rautaki, he kōrero rānei kua whakamahia e kōrua i ā kōrua mahi? Kei te whakaako tonu kōrua i ngā kura tuarua puta noa i te motu. Nō reira mai i ngā wheako, me ngā whaiarotanga ā kōrua,he aha o kōrua wheako?

     

    Mātua rā, i a koe ka whakaako i te kapa, he aha ngā āhuatanga me whakatakoto e pārekareka ai ngā mahi haka ki te rangatahi? Ehara ahau i te kaea pai, ehara hoki ahau i te kaiako ka hiahiatia e te ākonga. He pai kōrua?

    I was hoping we could talk about this today, about looking forward to the future.

     

     

    We understand what you’ve both said so far. You’re performers and advocates of kapa haka, you’re composers, tutors and judges.

     

    Now, the focus is on the children. So, what I want us to have a real good kōrero about now is the direction in that we take our rangatahi or our tamariki studying Te Ao Haka within their respective Kura and how we, not necessarily entice but open or reveal this world that belongs to a lot of tamariki who are unaware that it even exists.

     

    So, using whatever rautaki or whatever kōrero you two have done in your time because I’m well aware you are still teaching in secondary schools. What lessons have you learnt from your own personal experiences?

     

    But more importantly, when taking a rōpu haka, what would be the fundamentals you know to instil the enjoyment of haka into te hunga rangatahi? I’m not a preferential kaea, I know for a fact that I’m not a tutor that any student would want. Are you two?

    Ko te tūmanako, āe. He wā ōna pea kāore ngā tamariki e pīrangi kia ākona rātou e ō rātou mātua kēkē.

     

     

    Kāore hoki e kore, kei te pai katoa ā rātou kōrero mō māua i a māua ka whakamahi i a rātou kia oma āwhio i te papa tākaro. Heoi anō, kia pono ngā kōrero, ki ahau ko te mea nui mō te taha ki kapa haka me te iwi kei te tauritenga o te whakataetae me te ako noa iho mō rātou anō.

     

    Ko tāku e mea nei, ka noho te kapa haka hei waka.

    Well, I hope so. I think there's times where our kids would rather not be taught by their aunty and uncle.

     

    And I’m sure they're saying beautiful things about us when we’re making them do laps around the court. But no, in all seriousness, I think the key to kapa haka and iwi especially, is to hit up a balance between competitiveness and just learning about themselves.

     

    And what I mean by that is kapa haka is the vehicle aye.

    Āe he waka tēnā. Āe.

    Yes, it’s a vehicle.

    He waka te kapa haka, hei kawe i ngā kōrero ā tō iwi, hei kawe i ngā tikanga ā tō iwi, hei kawe i ngā kōrero mōu, mō te kaihaka.

     

    Ki ahau nei, ko te puta noa iho ki te haratau, ka ako i te waiata me ngā ringa, kātahi ka hoki ki te kāinga, whakapaipai ai, ka warea kē tātou ki aua āhuatanga iti nei.

    Kapa haka is a vehicle that conveys the histories and customs of your tribe and your own narratives as a performer.

     

    And I think that just turning up to practice, learn a song, learn the actions, go home, perfect it, and then we have a tendency to get caught up in the technicalities.

    Kua puta ake tēnei tūāhua i te whakataetae, e pai ana anō, engari he rite tonu tā tātou piki i te mea nui katoa o te kapa haka. Arā, ko te ako mō tātou anō.

     

     

    Ko te whai wāhi a te tamariki ki te wānanga he aha oti tēnei mea te mōteatea? He aha te tikanga o te whakaeke? Nā te mea he nui ngā kaitito kaiaka, ā, he nui rātou e noho ana hoki hei kaiako.

     

     

    Nō reira, me whai ngā tamariki i taua tauritenga. E kōrero ana ahau mō māua ake, kua kite au i ngā tau tata nei i te hiahia nui ki te whakataetae. I te nuinga o te wā e herea ana tēnei e te wā, he pēhea te roa o te wā kei a tātou ki te whakarite mō te atamira.

     

    Nō reira, he pai te whakataetae haka hei whakawhanake i ngā mahi haka, engari e ngaro haere ana i tērā āhua tētahi wāhanga nui o te kapa haka. Kāore i te pēnei i te katoa, i ngā wāhi katoa.

     

     

    He whakamahara tēnei i a au hei kaiako ehara te whakataetae i te mea nui katoa, ā, me whakamahara anō ngā tamariki. Kia wātea ai rātou ki te whai ki tētahi mea e ngākaunui nei rātou me te kore i ākina kinotia.

     

    He rite tonu tā māua kite i tērā tūāhua, he hāpaki kutu tā tātou mahi. Kāore rātou e kīia atu he pai rātou i ngā wā e pai ana, engari he rite tonu tā tātou kimi i ngā takarepa. “Kua hē tō takahi, kia kaha ake tō wiri, kua orotaha tō reo, kia kino mai hoki.”

     

    Mehemea koinā noa iho tā te tamaiti e rongo ai mō te toru, whā marama rānei ka tere pirau tērā wāhi. Heoi anō nōkū ēnei whakaaro.

     

    And that’s all come out of competitive kapa haka, and that’s fine, that’s fine but I also think that we can often overlook the most important part of kapa haka. Which is learning about themselves, learning about ourselves.

     

    Our tamariki having the space and time to really wānanga, what their mōteatea is about? What’s the whakaeke about? And because you have all these beautiful composers, and a lot of times the composers are the tutors themselves.

     

    And so, I think it’s just hitting that balance especially for our Tamariki. And I’m talking for ourselves here, what I’ve seen in the last few years is there’s this huge drive for competitive kapa haka. And a lot of the time it’s usually around timeframes, how much time have we got to get prepared for the stage.

     

    So, in effect, I think competitive haka is a good thing for the development of kapa haka, but it’s also removing a huge fundamental part of kapa haka. And I’m not saying it’s happening everywhere and for everyone.

     

    That reminder is especially for me, myself as a tutor and just to constantly remind myself that the competition is not everything and reminding our tamariki too. So that they get the opportunity to do something they love without it just being negatively driven.

     

    And that’s something we notice quite often, is that we can tend to be really nit picky. We’re not telling them when they're good, we’re just constantly looking for the faults. “Your takahi is out, more wiri from you, you’re flat, that was flat, that was horrible”

     

    And if that’s all the child is hearing for a good 3 to 4 months before they compete it can really turn a space negative, real quick. Those are my thoughts.

    Pai ērā whakaaro. Kua kite nei, kua kite nei. Ehara i te mea kua kapo noahia i te takiwā, kua kitea e koe, kua kitea hoki e au.

     

    Nō reira he aha te rongoā? He rongoā tā kōrua? He rautaki pea tā kōrua?

    They’re great thoughts. I have seen it first-hand myself. It's not just something that's been plucked from thin air, you've seen it, it is something I can say I've seen.

     

    What’s the remedy? Do you have a solution? You might have a strategy.

    Ria:

     

    I noho tahi māua ki te kōrero. I tēnei wā, kei te ako mātou I te taha o to māua parata, o māua tuahine me o māua whanaunga. E āwhina ana māua ki te whakakao i Kura-ki-uta i te Kāreti o Ōpōtiki.

     

    Nō reira, i noho mātou ki te kōrero mō ngā mahi, mō ō mātou wawata hoki mō ngā tamariki, ā, me pēhea e tutuki ai ērā wawata.

    Ria:

     

    We’ve spoken about this. At the moment, we are teaching alongside our brothers and sisters, and our cousins. We are helping with, he being the tutor of Kura ki uta, Ōpōtiki College.

     

    So, we sat down and had a kōrero about what we should do, and how we want the best for our kids and how do we get there?

    Ko ngā wawata ā-putanga ēnei?

    Sorry, is that the best as in the best in results?

    Ria:

     

    The best for themselves.

    Ria:

     

    Ko ngā wawata mō rātou tonu.

    Paora:

     

    Āe, he whānui atu te kōrero nei. Kia kite koe i ngā tauanga mō ngā tamariki, mō te nui o te hunga e whakamomori ana, e kōtonga ana, ā, kāore ā tātou tamariki i te koa.

     

     

    E pā ana ēnei kōrero ki ērā āhuatanga whānui nei e pā nei ki a tātou. 

    He nui te hunga e pōhara ana i Ōpōtiki nei, he tamariki ā mātou me mahi e ora ai te whānau.

     

     

    Kei konei katoa, nō reira ko te pai ko te kite i te tamariki e koakoa ana, kua kitea he wāhi mō rātou kāore rātou e mate ki te tiaki pēpi.

    Paora:

     

    Yeah, I think there’s a wider conversation that’s happening here. Especially when you look at the statistics around our tamariki the suicide rates, the depression rates and our kids just generally not being happy.

     

    I think that part of the conversation is a part of the wider context of what we’re up against. 

    And then we have a huge poverty rate here in Ōpōtiki, we’ve literally got tamariki that have to work to support their families.

     

    So, you’ve got all of that, and just to see how tamariki enjoy themselves or have a space where they don’t have to be the babysitters.

    Kia ora.

    Awesome.

    Ana, koirā te take e koa nei mātou ki te whakanui i ā mātou tamariki hei te rā whakataetae. Ehara i te mea ko te āhua o tā rātou tū i runga i te atamira, ko tō rātou tūnga rānei i te whakataetae Engari kē, ko tō rātou pai i runga i te atamira, kua kake rātou i ngā taumahatanga.

     

     

    And that’s why we are so ready to celebrate with our kids come competition day. It’s not the fact that they did well on the stage, it’s not the fact that they might’ve placed somewhere. But it’s more about that they have done well on the stage through the adversities.

     

     

    Me pēhea tā mātou poapoa i ngā tamariki me tō mātou mōhio e mahi ana rātou i ētahi atu mahi, atu i ngā mahi ā-kura. Me pēhea te poapoa i a rātou?

     

    Me pēhea kōrua e akiaki I a rātou kia piri ai rātou i raro i te whakaruruhau o tēnei tāonga e kīia nei ko te kapa haka?

    And so how do we draw knowing full well that we’ve got tamariki here, rangatahi here who are working, additional commitment on top of kura. How do we entice them? 

     

    How have you enticed them or got them under the shelter of this treasure we call kapa haka?

    Paora:

     

    You build the house, aye what do they say? “You build the house, the people will come”, and so we’ve decided a different approach this year.

    Paora:

     

    Me hanga e koe te whare, he aha te kōrero? “Hangaia te whare, ka haramai te iwi.” Nō reira, kua whai tikanga hou mātou i tēnei tau.

    Ria:

     

    You know we asked the question at our first practice “who wants to be here?” And we had, and I said, “be honest” And our nephews put their hand up. And everyone was like wow. And I just said, “Thank you for being honest, thank you so much for being honest”.

     

    And because they have seen haka, they live and breathe haka through their parents. Their parents are in Ōpōtiki mai Tawhiti and Waioeka.

     

    And they were just being honest with us, so we went back to have a hui, a kōrero about how do we get them to love haka again? How do we instil haka back into them?

     

    Yeah, so at the moment we set goals with our tamariki, we gave them an opportunity to talk about what they want.

    Ria:

     

    I puta te pātai i a mātou i te haratau tuatahi, “Ko wai mā kei te pīrangi noho mai?” I mea au, “Kia pono mai.” Ka tū mai ngā ringa o ngā irāmutu. Ka mīharo te katoa. Ka mea atu au, “Tēnā koutou i pono mai.”

     

    Kua kite rātou i te ao haka, koirā hoki tō rātou ao i te mea kei Ōpōtiki-mai-tawhiti, kei Waioeka rānei ngā mātua.

     

    I te pono noa iho rātou ki a mātou, nō reira i hoki mātou ki te hui me te kōrero me aha mātou e aroha mai anō ai rātou ki te haka? Me pēhea te whakatō i te haka ki roto i a rātou?

     

    I tēnei wā, kei te whakarite whāinga mātou i te taha o ngā tamariki, i tuku mātou i a rātou kia kōrero mō ō rātou hiahia.

    Paora:

     

    So that they're leading us, we’re not leading them.

    Paroa:

     

    Nō reira, ko rātou kē kei te ārahi i a mātou.

    Ria:

     

    And their confident rates, like letting us know where they are.

     

    So how can we help them build in that space?

    Ria:

     

    Kua māia ake rātou ki te kōrero mai mō rātou anō.

     

    Nō reira, ka pēhea tā mātou whakapakari i a rātou?

    So not only are you collecting their feedback, their honest feedback, but you're also measuring too their progression as they develop too. And is it working?

    Kāore mātou i te whakarongo noa iho ki ā rātou kōrero pono mai, engari kei te titiro hoki mātou i ngā kokenga i a rātou ka whanake, mēnā kei te tika te haere.

    Paora:

     

    So far, it’s working. Like Ria was saying she posed the question who wants to be here? Who doesn’t want to be here? Who’s being forced to be here?

     

    And our nephews' hands go straight up, those same nephews have their bags packed on a Friday night ready, and telling their mum, “Mum remember I’ve got kapa at 6, I’ve gotta be there at 6”

     

    And these are these kids that really didn’t want to be doing haka. And the parents are buzzing out, and so it’s all about the prepared environment. 

     

    We haven’t got the numbers that other Kura have, we haven’t got all the seniors, we haven’t got. But what we do have is an opportunity to just rekindle that fire that was once there.

    Paora:

     

    Kei te tika te haere. I pātai rā a Ria ki a rātou, ko wai mā kei te hiahia noho mai? Ko wai mā kāore i te hiahia noho mai? Ko wai mā kei te whakamahia kia noho mai?

     

    Tū tonu mai ngā ringaringa o ngā irāmutu, ko aua irāmutu tonu ngā mea kua pōkai i ā rātou pēke, kua rite i te pō o te Paraire, kua mea ki ngā māmā, “Mā, kei wareware hei te 6 tīmata ai ngā mahi haka.”

     

    Waihoki, koinei ngā tamariki kāore i pīrangi ki te mahi haka. Kua mīharo katoa ngā mātua, nō reira kei te āhua o te taiao ka whakaritea.

     

    Kāore tō mātou tokomaha e rite ki ētahi atu kura, kāore e nui ā mātou tauira pakeke. Engari ko te mea kei a mātou ko te āhei ki te toutou anō i te ahi kei konei kē.

    Ria:

     

    And making it fun.

     Ria:

     

    Me te whakangahau anō.

    Fun and kapa haka do they sit hand in hand?

    Haere ngātahi ai te ngahau me te kapa haka?

    They can, do they? I don’t know, I think that’s a question in itself.

    Ākuanei pea. E aua, he pātai anō tērā.

    But in the direction in which you're taking the kapa, it sounds like something that is a pillar, or a pou i roto i ngā whāinga matua.

    Engari i te ahunga o ā koutou mahi haka, ko te āhua nei he pou matua tēnei i roto i ngā whāinga matua.

    Enjoyment is, enjoyment is. Yeah fun, fun I think is a product of having a well-prepared space.

     

    And what that looks like. And I know you've been trying to draw that out, what does that actually look like? And I think cause we’re testing a lot of things, aye, and just being able to read the room.

     

    Like when the kids, because you'll see it, they will start to slow down in their learning capabilities. They will start to drag things out, not on purpose, but it just starts to happen. “Right stop, quick game everyone stand in a circle, right, eyes down eyes up, eyes down, eyes up”

     

    “Those sorts of games, just quick games or we will just stop, “Come on, let's have a break. But not just have a break to just sit around, and those are some of the ways that we're trying to make haka fun again.

     

    Is to recognize when it's not being fun, and it's being able to recognize when the kids are at their capacity, not when we're at our capacity.

    Ka puta te ngahau mehemea kua tika te whakarite i te taiao.

     

    He pēhea tōna āhua? Koirā tāu e kimi nei, he pēhea tōna āhua? Kei te whakamātautau mātou i ētahi mea, ā, me whānui te titiro me te kite atu he aha te aha.

     

    Ka kite atu koe, ka ngoikore haere te ako a ngā tamariki. Ka whakaroaroa haere rātou i ngā mahi, kāore rātou e whai kia pērā, engari ka puta noa mai. “Ka nui tēnā, he kēmu poto, tū porohita mai, na, titiro whakararo, titiro whakarunga, whakararo, whakarunga.”

     

    Ko ēnei momo kēmu, he kēmu poto, ka whakatā rānei, “Kia whakatā tātou.” Kāore mātou e noho noa iho i te whakatā, koinei ētahi o ngā ara e whai nei mātou kia ngahau anō ai te kapa haka.

     

     

    Me mōhio koe mēnā kāore e ngahau ana, me mōhio mēnā kua pau te kaha o ngā tamariki ki te ako tonu, kaua tō mātou kaha.

     

     

    Ria:

     

    Even acknowledging the kids that are working hard on the floor. As in we see our tamariki going hard on the floor, and some tamariki that are not going hard on the floor.

     

    But you know having spot prizes next to us and saying, “Hey we seen”. Aye we had a kōrero before it even started, and we said to them “what are you gonna bring to the floor?” And these are their words, they’ll say “We’re gonna bring effort, we’re gonna bring strength”

     

    And so, when we have a kōrero with our tamariki, and teach them waiata, we always remember that. And then just pointing out who’s actually giving a lot of effort to the item.

     

    So, it’s recognising that, so we were just able to grab a chocolate and say “My boy I seen you with so much effort and giving it your all, anei tētahi tiakarete māu”

    Ria:

     

    Me mihi hoki ngā tamariki e whakapau kaha ana i te papa haratau. Ka kite mātou e whakapau kaha ana ētahi tamariki, engari anō ētahi atu.

     

    Kei a mātou ētahi taonga, kua mea atu, “I kite mātou i a koe.” I kōrero atu mātou ki a rātou i mua i te tīmatatanga, “He aha tāu e hari mai ai ki te papa haratau?” Ko ā rātou kupu ēnei, “Ka kaha mātou, ka rīrā mātou.”

     

    Nō reira, ka kōrero ana mātou ko ngā tamariki, ka ako ana i te waiata, ka maumahara mātou ki taua kōrero. Me te tohu anō i ngā mea e whakapau kaha ana.

     

    Me mihi tērā, nō reira ka tīkina he tiakarete, ka kī atu, “E tama, i kite au i a koe e whakapau kaha ana, anei tētahi tiakarete māu.”

    And you know our kids just start clapping, and then our nephew is like “oh my god was that me, is that chocolate for me?”

    Kātahi ka tīmata ngā tamariki ki te pakipaki, ka tahuri mai tā mātou irāmutu, “E kī, ko au tēnā? Māku tēnā tiakarete?”

    And the other kids are like “I want a chocolate”, so that way it’s flipped the script. It's no longer about you’re flat, you're this, you're that, you're out of time. It's more about you've done that right, amazing, that was amazing.

     

    So, rather than the model being a reductive model, we're trying to introduce a model of building up our kids to something.

    Kātahi ka hiahia tiakarete ērā atu tamariki, nō reira kua whai ara hou mātou. Kua kore mātou e whakahahaki i ngā hē. Engari kua mihi kē i ngā pai, i ngā whakamīharotanga.

     

     

    Nō reira, kua kore i whai i te tauira o te whakaiti, engari kua whai kē i te tauira o te whakapakari i ngā tamariki.

    And you give, that was a perfect example of that, whereby you said some were tukuna ki ngā rangi, and some weren't.

     

    A normal practice as whereby we focus on the ones that aren't, whereas the acknowledgement goes to those who deserve it, but then it also leads as an example for the other tamariki.

    Kātahi anō te tauira pai i homai ai e koe mō ētahi e whakapau kaha ana, engari kāore ētahi atu e pērā.

     

     

    I ngā haratau, kāore mātou e aro ki ngā mea kāore e kaha mai ana, ka aro kēhia ngā mea e tika ana kia mihia, ā, ka noho ērā hei tauira mō ērā atu tamariki.

     

     

    Straight up and I'm the worst, I'm the worst bro. I’ve been in the old method of tutoring for so long, that I can’t even see if someone is on if someone is good.

     

    I don’t even see them, they’re not even, my eye is automatically going to the one that’s out. My ears let’s go to the person that’s flat, and so this is about our growth as well.

    Kia pono, ko au te mea kino katoa. Kua roa ahau e ū ana ki te tauira whakaako o mua, kua pohe ahau ki ngā mea e pai mai ana.

     

    Kāore e kitea ana, kua kotahi atu aku karu ki ērā e hē mai ana. Kua mau atu aku taringa ki tērā e orotaha mai ana, nō reira ko mātou hoki kei te tipu.

    Kia ora, the growth and development, not just for the tamariki as well, but the personal one on this journey known as Te Ao Haka.

     

    And so, aye no matter what the placing is, it's the fact that the journey that they go on, you ensure that they’re acknowledged. You need to make sure they’re continuously learning. I have another question for the pair of you.

     

    Do the things you teach your students in kapa haka relate to the marae? Does what we practice and what we do with our tamariki at wānanga, particularly your ones for this example, is it preparing them for the multitudes of roles we have on our marae?

    Kia ora, kāore ngā tamariki anahe i te tipu, i te whanake, engari ko mātou hoki kei runga i tēnei huarahi e kīia nei ko te ao haka.

     

    Ahakoa te tūranga o te kapa i te whakataetae, ko te aronga nui ko tō rātou haerenga, me mihi rātou ka tika. Kia whakakīkīngia i te kete mātauranga, me ērā ka tūāhuatanga katoa. Ko taku pātai anō hoki mo tēnei kaupapa mā kōrua

     

    Ko ngā whakaakoranga ki o kōrua tamariki i te wā o te kapa haka, e hāngai ana ki te marae? Kei te whakariterite rānei ā mātou whakaharataunga i ā mātou tamariki i ngā wānanga mō ngā tūranga maha i runga i ō tātou marae?

    Look. Think in the first instance, is that that pātai is really important. It’s really important to not only us but every tutor of every kapa. And I suppose, it all depends on the agenda, the tribe and the tutor.

     

    I mean not everyone is in the position where they're the only college in the rohe. Our kura is that for us, which means that it’s a place where we have the opportunity to grow our tamariki for the marae.

     

    But not everyone is in that same position. Other kura, kapa haka might be just a way for kids to be able to connect in a kura that has nothing else Māori.

     

    Kapa haka might be just that place where they can connect to their Māoritanga. And I suppose in terms of your pātai and to us it’s important, it’s important that Ria and I no longer have to grow grey hairs over kapa haka. That our kids, our nieces, our nephews are at a stage where they can take over from us.

     

    And that’s important to us now, not later on down the track when we’re old and grumpy and no longer relevant. 

     

    But, while we’ve got the strength, while we’re young enough, while we’ve got the energy, just honing in on our kids and building that succession plan for our marae, for kapa haka, for everything. Ngā hāpaitanga o te iwi.

    Tuatahi ake, he pātai nui tēnei. He kaupapa nui tēnei ki a mātou, otirā ki ngā kaiako o ngā kapa huri noa. Ko tāku kei te kaupapa kei te iwi, te kaiārahi.

     

    Kāore i te pēnei te noho a te katoa, ko rātou te kāreti kotahi i te rohe. Ko tō mātou kura tērā, nō reira kei a mātou te kōwhiringa ki te whakarite i ā mātou tamariki mō te marae.

     

    Engari kāore e pēnei ana te katoa. I kura kē, he huarahi noa iho pea te kapa haka e hui tahi ai ngā tamariki i tētahi kura kāore he aha e Māori mai ana.

     

    Ko te kapa haka pea te wāhi e tūhono ai rātou ki tō rātou Māoritanga. Hei whaiwhai i tō pātai, he mea nui ki a māua, ā, he mea nui hoki kāore e hina ō māua ko Ria makawe i ngā mahi haka. Kua eke ā mātou tamariki, ā mātou irāmutu ki te taumata e tukuna atu ai mā rātou e ārahi.

     

    He mea nui tērā ki a māua ināianei, kaua ā muri ake nei hei te wā kua kaumātua, kua kiriweti, kua koretake nei māua.

     

    Engari i a māua e kaha nei, e rangatahi tonu nei, e hīkaka tonu nei, ko te aronga nui ko ngā tamariki me te whakarite i te mahere piki tūranga i ngā marae, i te kapa haka, i hea noa iho. Ko ngā hāpaitanga ēnei o te iwi.

    Yeah, there are so many rangatahi, our nephews and nieces in our kapa have so many skills. 

     

    And so, one of our nephews, he loves to play the guitar, so we’ve given him the opportunity to pick up a guitar at practice and learn from the best around here, their uncles yeah.

    He nui te rangatahi, ngā irāmutu kei te kapa e whai pūkenga ana. 

     

    E ngākaunui ana tētahi o ngā irāmutu ki te whakatangi rakuraku, nō reira kua wātea ia ki te hāpai i te rakuraku i ngā haratau kia ākona ia e ngā mātanga o konei, e ōna mātua.

     

     

    And I think that’s an important thing, that it’s not just Ria and I. We might be the ones sitting here with you right now having the conversation, but there’s actually a wider team, a wider team.

     

    And without that team, because there’s definite skills that we don’t have and rather than caught up in ego and letting go of my tendencies to control a lot of situations.

     

    It’s just really about putting the best in front of our kids, and that means at times that you have to sometimes put away your personal issues and just deliver the best for the kids.

    He mea nui tērā ki ahau, ehara i te mea ko māua anahe. Ko māua pea ēnei e noho nei i tō taha, e kōrero atu nei, engari arā kē te whānau whānui.

     

    Ki te kore rātou, nā te mea kāore he pūkenga kāore i a mātou, nō reira hei aha noa iho te whakaaro ki a koe anō, me tuku mā ētahi atu e whakahaere.

     

    Me te whakanoho i ngā tino mātanga ki mua i ngā tamariki, i ōna wā me whakataha atu koe i ō ake take i runga i te whakaaro nui ki ngā tamariki.

    Nō reira the whāinga matua, nē? Ensuring that we’re united, not just the kaiako.

     

    Does that come right down to the cooks as well? That the cooks are all part of this one community, to look after, to nurture the youth? Or are you the cooks as well?

    So, that’s the main objective? Me kotahi tātou katoa, kaua ngā kaiako anahe.

     

    Ka pā hoki tēnei ki ngā ringawera? Ko rātou hoki te hapori ka manaaki, ka poipoi i ngā rangatahi? Ko kōrua rānei ngā ringawera?

    Our iwi is strong. This Iwi of Te Whakatōhea, everyone has each other's backs. If you're a cook for Waioeka, you're a cook for OMT [Ōpōtiki mai tawhiti], you're a cook for Kura ki Uta.

     

    So, we’re lucky to have our iwi behind us all the time.

    He iwi kaha tō mātou, te iwi o Te Whakatōhea, ka tuarā tēnā i tēnā. Mēnā koe he ringawera mā Waioeka, he ringawera anō koe mā Ōpōtiki-mai-tawhiti me Kura-ki-uta.

     

    Maringanui ana kei te tuarā mai te iwi i a mātou i ngā wā katoa.

    Rawe, and that's been the general thing too here in Te Whakatōhea. Is that regardless of how you go about it, the community and people are supporting the descendants of Te Whakatōhea.

     

    These are great points. We’re coming to the end of our discussion now. 

     

    Finally, when you have grandchildren. And they attend high school and pursue Te Ao Haka as a subject what do you have to say to them?

     

     

     

    What would you say to them to inspire them, for them to treasure and hold onto?

    Koirā anō te āhua i roto i Te Whakatōhea. Ahakoa ngā huarahi maha o te ao haka, kei muri rawa te hāpori, te iwi e kaha tautoko ana i ngā uri katoa o Te Whakatōhea.

     

    Nō reira he rawe ki te rongo. 

     

    Nō reira kua tae nei tātou ki te mutungā o ēnei kōrero. Engari ko tāku e tukuna nei kia kōrua, i te wā ka puta mai o kōrua mokopuna ki te ao hurihuri nei. Ana ka eke ai rātou ki te kura tuarua ana ka whai rātou i tēnei tāonga e kīia nei ko Te Ao haka. Tēnā, kaua e aro mai ki au, tukuna o kōrero ki o mokopuna, i a rātou e rapu i tēnei rauemi.

     

    Tēnā tukunā o kōrero hei hikaka ana i a rātou, hei kuru pounamu, hei waihotanga anō hoki mā rātou.

    Kia mau ki tō mana Māori motuhake, koinei tō ao. Haere mai ki tō ao Māori, haere mai ki te mahi haka. Koirā tāku.

    Hold fast to your self-determination as Māori, that’s who you are. Come into your Māori world, participate in kapa haka.

    Tēnā koe.

    Thank you.

    Heoi anō, hei tāpirihanga atu. Ko te ao haka te matapihi ki te ao Māori. Ka mutu, ko te haka te whakatinanatanga ō tēnei mea te ihi, te wehi, te wana, te whakamataku, ēnā tāonga i tuku iho mai i o tīpuna.

     

    Nō reira puritia kia mau, puritia kia ū, ko te mana o ō tīpuna kei roto ia koe, me koe hoki kei roto i a rātou.

    Is there anything else to add? Kapa haka is the window into the Māori world. Haka is the embodiment of ihi, wehi and wana, it’s frightening, these things have been handed down by your ancestors.

     

     

    Hold fast to them, so they’re fixed, you possess the mana of your ancestors, and you are also in them.

    Tēnā rawa atu kōrua. Nā mātou ano te maringa, te hōnore nui, kua whai wā tātou ki te noho tahi. Engari ko tāku e hiahia nei ki a kukume ake i a kōrua i tēnei wā tonu ko ngā moemoeā ā kōrua mō te ao haka?

    Thank you both. It’s been our privilege and honour to have you here today. Finally, I would like to ask you about your aspirations for kapa haka?

    Taku moemoeā nui, ko te whāinga nui pea mōku Ko te kite i te pūawaitanga o aku tamariki, te puāwaitanga o taku iwi. E hoki ai te mātotorutanga o te mōteatea, o te whaikōrero, o te karanga ki runga i o tātou marae.

     

    Koirā te moemoeā nui. Ko te orangā tonutanga o ngā tikanga, o te ahurea, o ngā kawa o te iwi Māori, ā, kāti ake ō Te Whakatōhea.

    My biggest aspiration or perhaps a goal of mine, is to see my children and my people grow. I would like to see mōteatea, whaikōrero, karanga alive and well on our marae.

     

     

    That’s my biggest aspiration. I would like our customs, culture, our Māori protocols and those of Te Whakatōhea alive and well

    Rawe, rawe. Āu ake?

    Excellent, and yours?

    Wāku moemoeā? Kia kore rawa e ngaro tēnei mea te kapa haka ki roto wā tātou tamariki. Kei te pērā, koirā tā māua he kūmea, he whakatō ki roto i a rātou. Koirā. Koirā te mea nui ki a māua tahi.

    My aspirations? I never want to see kapa haka lost from our children and that’s what drives us to instil it within them. Those are the most important things to us.

    Kia tipu, kia puāwai, kia ora ai te tamaiti, te iwi, ā, tātou te iwi Māori.  Nō reira ko ngā kōrero kua hora atu nei e kōrua, he kai, he kai, he kai, te kai. Tēnā rawa atu kōrua.

    May the children, the people, the Māori people, grow and thrive. Thank you for sharing these words as food for thought. Thank you very much.

    Kia ora rā.

    Thank you.

    Camera brings up again the scenic shots of toetoe then a shot of a carved pou. The skate park appears and quickly dies out to a monument from Opotiki center shot. 50km speed sign which also has Opotiki on it. Crosses to a panning shot of a mural from the town center. It returns to the beach then to the river with barge, which has two boy who look to be skimming rocks. Then back to the beach and the river mouth with a walking bridge out the river, then to the walking bridge with bike riders coming across. Back to a shot overlooking the ocean and carved pou then quickly back to a different area of the river. A shot of the carved pou in Opotiki. Shots of street art and to the skate park once again with carved pou. Then closing on the carved pou which switches over to a bird’s eye view of the district.

    [ Accordion ]

    Birds eye view of a harbour with boats and land on either side with the sun rising in the background. A view of a island in the ocean with a orange glow sky behind it. Close up of waves crashing on the shore with some coastline in the background. A shot of the beach at low tide with a father and son walking in the wet sand with mountain ranges in the distant background. A shot of rocky coastline with 3 people at the edge surf casting into the ocean which leads to a island in the background. A close up on a carving. A pan shot of a Marae, followed by close ups of its carvings then a shot of the carvings entrance to the marae with the marae in the background. Close up images of the entrance carvings. Shots of the iwi waka carving. A shot of the harbour again where you can see boats and houses in the distance. A standalone giant rock with a sculpture of a women at the top of it looking out to the ocean which is in the background. Then a further away shot of the same image which shows more of the back the giant rock sits on. Ngāti Awa appears on the screen as the last image fades to black and then Te Ao Haka pans from the left onto the screen. 

    Reo Māori

    Reo Pākehā

    Taku rākau ki te pā o te wao, taku rākau ki te iho o te whare, taku rākau ki te akaaka o te rangi pū ātea kia ū, kia mau, kia tūturu. 

     

    Kei aku whakatamarahi ki te rangi nau mai ki tēnei whare kōrero, otirā ki tēnei punua pāoho e karangatia nei ko Te Ao Haka. Ko Te Okiwa Mclean tōku ingoa nau mai e rarau. I tēnei rangi ka kōrerotia e tātou ngā rētōtanga me ngā rangiwhāwhātanga.

     

    Tēnei rangi ka tahuri atu rā taku aro ki taku manuhiri, taku rangatira, ki taku wakatea, e mau o taringatahi kei taku rangatira tēnā koe. Whākina atu ki te iwi, ko wai koe, nō hea koe?

    Taku rākau ki te pā o te wao, taku rākau ki te iho o te whare, taku rākau ki te akaaka o te rangi pū ātea kia ū, kia mau, kia tūturu.

     

    To my esteemed guests, welcome to this school of learning, and to this podcast that is called Te Ao Haka. My name is Te Okiwa Mclean, welcome. Today we will discuss the depth and the breadth.

     

     

    Today, I turn my focus to my guest, to my chief, my wakatea, so listen up . My chief, greetings. Let the people know who you are and where you’re from.

    Heoi anō, ko Tūhoe te iwi tūāroa. Ko ētahi atu o ngā pānga ki roto o Mataatua, ko Te Whakatōhea maurua, ko Te Whānau ā Apanui ki te rohe o Mataatua mai i Ngā Kurī ā Whārei ki Tihirau.

     

     

    Ko Ngāti Whakaaue ki Rotorua nui ā Kahumatamomoe ki te rohe o Te Arawa waka, o Te Arawa tangata. Ko Ngāti Rangi ki Ngāwhā ki Ōhaeawai, ki Te Hiku o te Ika, ki Te Tai Tokerau, ki a Ngāpuhi nui tonu. Āe ko ahau tēnei ko Haturini McGarvey.

    Tūhoe is my backbone. There are also some connections to Mātaatua, Te Whakatōhea Maurua, Te Whānau a Apanui within Mātaatua “The boundary stretches from the dogs of Whārei to Tihirau”.

     

     

    I am also from Ngāti Whakaue in Rotorua Nui a Kahumatamomoe in the region of the Te Arawa canoe, of the Te Arawa the chief. And also, Ngāti Rangi ki Ngāwhā in Ōhaeawai, in Northland, in the lands of Ngāpuhi Nui Tonu. Yes, this is me, Haturini McGarvey.

    E Hatu ngā mihi nui tō tātai mai o karanga whakapapa. Kua tōia mai, kua kūmea mai e hau ki tēnei punua pāoho kia piri, kia tata. Otirā ko taku pātai tuatahi ki a koe, he tohunga haka koe nō mua mai rā anō tēnei mea te haka i roto i tō ao, i tīmata mai i hea?

    Thank you for tracing your genealogy. I’ve pulled this podcast closer to home. So, my first question to you is, you’re a long-standing expert in this field of kapa haka, where did it all begin?

    Kia ora ki te pātai. Me pēnei te tiki atu i te kōrero. Ko Te Tawa te huanga kāinga, te pāpātipu o tō mātou nā whānau ki te taiororua o Rūātoki. Nō reira i pakeke ai mātou ko ōku teina, ōku tuahine ki reira.

    Thanks for the question. I’ll say it like this. Te Tawa is my home, the ancestral lands of our family in the valley of Rūātoki. So, my younger brothers and my sisters and I lived there.

    I raro i ngā rekereke o mātou mātua, pakeke, kuia, koroua heoi anō koirā te tīmatanga mai. Anā, i reira ko te tino waimaria ko te nuinga o ngā tangata i te whāruarua o Rūātoki he kōrero Māori.

     

    Nō reira, ka kuraina mātou ki te kura o Tawera Kaipuha, me te kura o Rūātoki kei Kiore, nō reira i tū atu i wērā kura e rua anā, i kuraina mātou ki ngā marae o te whāruarua o Rūātoki. E haruru ana te reo i tērā wā, ki te karapu hutupōro tonu o Rūātoki, te papa netipōro, te papa hutupōro.

     

    E kaha ana te kōrerotia o te reo o Ngāi Tūhoe i tērā wā. Nō reira koirā te waimaria nui, koirā te kura nui. Anā, ko te kura o Tawera, te kura o Rūātoki anā, ia rua tau, anā kua tū Te Hui Ahurei a Tūhoe ki Rūātoki tonu, huri atu ki roto o Ruatāhuna Kākahu Mauku ki Te Waimana Kaaku.

     

    Anā, i roto i ēnei tau tata e hoki atu ki te tīmatanga ki Rotorua. Nā reira he kura tāukiuki ēnei tūmomo wāhi, ēnei tūmomo whare mā Ngāi Tūhoe, o tōku reanga taka mai ki te reanga o ngā tamariki, o ngā mokopuna o nāianei.

    At the ankles of our parents, elders, grandmothers, grandfathers, anyway that was where it began. And there, we were super fortunate because the people in the valley of Rūātoki all spoke Māori.

     

    So, we went to Te Kura o Tawera Kaipuha and Te Kura o Rūātoki Kai Kiore, so in addition to those two schools, we were schooled at the marae of the valley of Rūātoki. The language was thriving at that time, even at the Rūātoki football clubrooms, the netball courts, and the football field.

     

    The language of Ngāi Tūhoe was spoken widely then. We were really fortunate. So, Te Kura o Tawera and Te Kura o Rūātoki, and then every second year, Te Hui Ahurei a Tūhoe is held in Rūātoki, and then it turns over to Ruatāhuna Kākahu Mauku, to Te Waimana Kaaku.

     

    And just in these recent years, it was taken back to its inception in Rotorua. So, these are ancient treasures, these sorts of places, these sorts of institutions for Ngāi Tūhoe, of my generation right through to the generation of the children and the grandchildren of today.

    Nā kua kōrerotia e tāua tō pāpātipu ki roto Te Tawa, i paku kōrero hoki koe mō ngā kura o Tawera Kaipuha me Rūātoki kai kiore. Tēnā kōrerotia mai wērā wā i a koe i ērā kura e rua me ngā whakamārama ki ēnā ingoa.

    So, we’ve spoken about your ancestral lands in Te Tawa, you spoke a little bit about Tawera Kaipuha and Rūātoki Kai Kiore. Can you please tell us about your time at those schools and about the explanations of those names.

    Ko ngā kura māhita tonu, ngā kaiako i a mātou, ko ngā pakeke, kuia, koroua i ētahi tāima. Ka kuhukuhu mai rātou i roto i te kura. Anā, ko te pai o tērā, te hua nui o tērā ko te ako i ngā waiata ake o te kainga, pēnei i a “Ka Hiko Tonu Auē”. Nā Moana Rini tērā.

     

    Me te waiata mō Rūātoki a “Ngā Mihi.” Koinei ngā waiata e waiata rautia ana. Hāunga i ngā kura, ngā kaupapa kura engari huri noa i te whārua, ki ngā marae, anā, ki ngā kaupapa huihuinga a te iwi.

     

    Nō reira, koirā te kākano i whakatōhia ki roto i a mātou. Anā, hāunga i ngā waiata ā-ringa, waiata ngahau. Ko ngā waiata hoki o Kaa Williams.

    Our teachers in our time were the elders, our grandmothers and grandfathers. They would come into the school. The benefit of that was learning the songs of home, such as “Ka Hiko Tonu Auē.” That was by Moana Rini.

     

     

    And the song about Rūātoki, that is “Ngā Mihi.” These were the songs that were always sung. Except for school events, but right throughout the valley, on the marae and at the gatherings of the tribe.

     

    So that was the seed that was planted within us. Except action songs and entertainment songs. We also sang the songs of Kaa Williams.

    “E pipi, e pipi puta mai tō arero, pūkanakana ana whēterotero te arero.”

    Anā, kei te mau tonu ērā waiata i roto i ngā kōhanga reo me ngā kura Māori, Kura Kaupapa Māori o Tūhoe, o te motu.

     

    Ngā waiata hoki o Hirini Melbourne, “Purea Nei” he maha wāna waiata.

    Anā, tua atu i ngā waiata nei anā, ko ngā waiata koroua, “Taku rākau”, “Ka mea Tawera.” Ngā waiata a Mihikitekapua mā e waiata ana i runga i ngā paetapu o Rūātoki o Ngāi Tūhoe.

     

    Heoi anō, ko te manawawera anā, ko te manawawera e mau ana i a Ngāi Tūhoe e kaha ana te hakaina i runga i ngā kirimate, ngā urumate o te wā.

     

     

    “Tīwhanawhana” “Kī Mai Nei Koe” tae atu hoki ki te haka tū taua rongonui a Ngāi Tūhoe Ko “Te Pūru.” 

     

     

    Nō reira koirā ngā taonga whakahirahira i turua, i poupoua ki roto i a mātou ki waenganui i tōku reanga, me ngā papa reanga whai muri mai i a mātou.

     

     

    Nō reira te kura nui, te kura roa, te kura tāukiuki ā ngā matua tūpuna.

    Anā, koirā ngā puipuiaki kei te tukuna e mātou, he tuku iho ki ngā mokopuna turuturu o te tai ororua a Rūātoki huri i te rohe pōtae o Ngāi Tūhoe ki te ūkaipō.

    “E pipi, e pipi puta mai tō arero, pūkanakana ana whēterotero te arero.”

    And those songs are still around in the kōhanga reo and the kura Māori, Kura Kaupapa Māori of Tūhoe and of the wider nation.

     

    And also, the songs of Hirini Melbourne, such as “Purea Nei” though he had lots of songs. In addition to these songs, there were also the traditional chants, “Taku Rākau”, and “Ka Mea Tawera.” The songs of Mihikitekapua and co that are sung on the sacred benches of Rūātoki and wider Ngāi Tūhoe.

     

    And then we have manawawera which Ngāi Tūhoe still perform often at the tangihanga of the time.

     

     

     

    There is “Tīwhanawhana” “Kī Mai Nei Koe” and also the famous haka of Ngāi Tūhoe that is “Ko Te Pūru.” 

     

    So those are the significant treasures that were planted in us within my generation, and the generations that followed.

     

     

     

    Those were the sacred treasures of our ancestors.

    Those are the very treasures that we are passing on to the grandchildren of the valley of Rūātoki, and all around the king country of Ngāi Tūhoe, our home.

    Ka rawe. Mai i te kura tuatahi katahi tatū atu au ki roto i te kura tuarua ki te haikura, koirā te wā tuatahi e whai wāhi rānei koe ki tēnei mea te wairua whakataetae i te haikura?

    Awesome. So, from primary school and through to high school, that was the first time you had experienced competitiveness, in high school?

    Oh, he whakataetae hoki Te Ahurei engari ko te mea nui o Te Ahurei, i tū ai Te Ahurei ko te matemate-ā-one a Tūhoe ki a ia anō. Ko ia te kaitō mai i a Tūhoe mai tata, a Tūhoe mai tawhiti.

    Well, Te Ahurei is itself a competition, but the biggest reason for Te Ahurei and for the establishment of Te Ahurei was the profound affection of Tūhoe to itself. It draws in the Tūhoe descendants of near and far.

    Nā reira ka tae atu ki te kura tuarua, anā, he nui ngā tamariki i haere ki Te Wharekura o Rūātoki. I haere mai ki konei ki te Manukatūtahi, ki Te Haikura o Whakatāne, ki Te Haikura o Te Taoroa kura ai.

     

    Nā reira kī katoa ngā kapa haka e rua i ngā uri o te kāinga anā, ko ngā kaiako hoki nō te kāinga i au i Te Taoroa anā, ko Powai Pitara, taku koroua a Powai, anā me tana hoa rangatira, a me Kū, a Kū Haurea, he maha rātou nanny Bubbles nāna i mahi ngā piupiu, ngā kākahu o tō mātou kapa. 

     

    Heoi anō ngā titonga waiata haka mō te waka o Mataatua. Ko ngā karakia a Mataatua, te tau o Mataatua.

     

    Te karakia ruruku, “Tihei uriuri, tihei nakonako” anā, me ngā tūpuna he rongonuihia ana i roto i ngā whaikōrero, i ngā huihuinga o te rohe. Nō reira i tērā wā ko te tauwhāinga kapa haka ko te Waiariki, ko Mataatua, ngā kura tuarua o Mataatua me ngā kura tuarua o Te Arawa.

     

     

    Ā, nā reira ko ngā tiampēne o tērā tāima anā, karekau i tua atu i a Rūātoki me ngā haikura o Rotorua, kua oma te ingoa Māori mō Western Heights, anā ko Raukura i muri mai. Engari āe, ko Rūātoki ko rātou ngā toa whakaihuwaka o te rohe o te Waiariki anā, me ngā whakataetae ā-motu. 

    Nō reira koirā te tauiratanga o taku hīkoi i roto i te ao haka whakataetae i wērā tāima.

    So, I get to high school and there were lots of children who attended Te Wharekura o Rūātoki. They came here to Te Mānukatūtahi at Whakatāne High School, and to Te Taoroa High School for school.

     

    So, both the kapa haka teams were filled with descendants from home, and the tutors were also from home when I was at Te Taoroa such as Powai Pitara, my grandfather Powai and his wife, whose name was Kū,

    Kū Haurea, there were lots of them, nanny Bubbles did the piupiu and the costumes of our group. 

     

    But the song and haka compositions pertained to the Mātaatua canoe. They were the incantations of Mātaatua and the landing of Mātaatua.

     

    The binding incantation ““Tihei uriuri, tihei nakonako” and the eponymous ancestors who were mentioned in the oratory and the regional meetings. So at that time, the kapa haka rivals included Te Waiariki, Mātaatua, the secondary schools of Mātaatua and those of Te Arawa.

     

     

    The champions of that time were none other than Rūātoki and the high schools of Rotorua, the Māori name for Western Heights escapes me but they later became Raukura. But yes, Rūātoki were the winners of the region of Te Waiariki and of the national competition. So those are some examples of my journey in the haka world competitively at that time.

    Mai i tērā wā o te kura haikura, wharekura, tatū atu ki te wā o te taipakeke tēnā, kōrero mai o raumaharatanga tuatahi ki ngā pakeke, haka pakeke.

    From there, from high school through to adulthood, talk to me about your first memories in senior kapa haka.

     

    E hoki ana aku whakaaro ki ngā toro perepere moni ā ngā hapū o te kāinga, ngā marae, anā he come alive nē. Anā, ko te mahi ā ngā pakeke ka kuhu atu ki roto i te wharekai, ka haruru mai te kāuta anā, kua taki kuru tāima te māpū.

     

    My mind goes back to the fundraisers of the sub-tribes of home, of the marae, it would come alive aye. The elders would go into the dining hall, and the kitchen would erupt, and they would have a good time.

    Anā, ko mātou kei waho, mātou ngā tamariki kei waho kei te purei bullrush, hutupōro wērā mahi hangariki katoa. Heoi anō i tētahi tāima i tō mātou marae i Tauarau, i te tū tonu te wharekai tawhito a Rangimahana i taua wā.

     

    Anā, ka karangahia mātou i te ora tonu taku pāpā a Te Meni, a Henare Heremia. Anā, ka karangahia mātou ngā tamariki, mai i ngā tamariki nohinohi ki ngā mea pakeke. Anā ka parakatihi mātou i “Te Pūru” ā, mahi mātou i ngā ringa me ngā kupu.

     

    Kātahi ka mahi i a mātou ki roto i te wharekai anā koirā te whakangahau i ngā koroua me ngā kuia, ngā pakeke i tērā wā. Anā, ko “Te Pūru” ko “Ngā Mihi.” 

     

    Nō reira ka taipakeke anā, ka eke ki tērā wā anā, ka haere atu ahau ki te Whare Wānanga o Waikato anā, ko te kapa haka o Tūhoe ki Waikato ko Te Hono a Te Kiore.

     

    Ko ngā kaiako ko taku pāpā a Hans Tiakiwai me tērā o aku whaea Pihitahi Whauwhau, a rāua ko Rangihau. Ko ngā kaitito ko Poia Rewi a ko Whini Davis, ko Te Wharehuia, ko Hirini ko wai atu, ko wai atu.

     

    Ko te ātaahuatanga o te Hono a Te Kiore he tuitui honohono i ngā uri o Ngāi Tūhoe ki tawhiti, ki te riu o Waikato. Anā, ko te mīharo ko ngā titonga waiata, haka a Te Wharehuia, a Hirini nā te mea he ngāwari noa iho te reo.

     

    Nā reira ngāwari te hopu o te taringa me te ako haere i ngā kupu me ngā ringa. He tūturu Tūhoe, tūturu Tūhoe te reo. Te tangi, te ihu, te iho o te kupu. Nō reira tua atu i te titonga, anā, ko te mau rākau.

     

    Anā, ko ngā kaitātaki i tērā wā ko Ngatai Rangihau. He toki tērā tangata mō te tātaki. Anā, i toa i a ia te kaitātaki tāne i Te Hui Ahurei, e rua, e toru pea wāna toahanga. Kua wareware au te ingoa o taku kaihana anā, ko ia hoki tētahi o ngā kaitātaki wini i a ia te kaitātaki wāhine. Me taku tuahine, me ahau.

    We would be outside, us kids were outside playing bullrush, rugby, all those fun things. However, one time at our marae at Tauarau, the old dining hall was still standing at that time, that was Rangimahana.

     

     

    We were called upon, my father was still alive at the time, Te Meni, and Henare Heremia. Us children were called upon, from the wee ones to the older ones. And we practiced “Te Pūru” and we did both the actions and the words.

     

    And then we performed that in the dining hall to entertain the elderly men and women, the elders of that time. It was “Te Pūru” and “Ngā Mihi.” 

     

     

    So, once I matured and the time came, I went off to Waikato University, and the kapa haka team of Tūhoe in Waikato was Te Hono a Te Kiore.

     

     

    The tutors were the likes of my father, Hans Tiakiwai, and one of my aunties, Pihitahi Whauwhau and Rangihau. The composers were Poia Rewi, Whini Davis, Te Wharehuia, Hirini and others.

     

    The beauty of Te Hono a Te Kiore was in the coming together of the descendants of Ngāi Tūhoe who were living away in Waikato. I was amazed by the song and haka compositions of Te Wharehuia and Hirini because the language was nice and simple.

     

    So, the ear caught on quickly and it was easy to learn the words and the actions. The language was that of Tūhoe, through and through. The sound, the core words. And in addition to the compositions was the weaponry.

     

    The leaders at that time were Ngatai Rangihau. That one was an expert at leading. He won the male leader discipline at Te Hui Ahurei two or three times. I’ve forgotten the name of my relation; she was also one of the leaders and she took out the female leader. And my sister, and me.

     

    Heoi anō, i ērā wā hoki e kaha taku hokihoki mai ki te kāinga. Ki ngā wānanga mau rākau a te Matarua i raro i ngā tohunga mau rākau, kairākau, i a Mowai Tihi me Te Hue Rangi, a Te Hē Akurangi. Anā, ka haere te wā i roto i te ara rapu, kimi i te kete awhekura a Tāwhaki ki reira nā te kete o te mātauranga anā, ka whakahoahoa atu

    ki ngā Māori o te motu. 

     

    Anā, koirā te tūnga mō te kapa haka o Rangimarie. Anā, ko ngā kaiārahi ko Pania Papa rā me tana hoa tāne a Puka Moeau, ko te whānau Papa a Rahui mā, a Stan mā, ko Watson Ohia mā.

     

    Ko mātou katoa i te whare wānanga nō reira e waimarie te tū ki ngā whakataetae a-rohe o Waikato Tainui. Anā, ka wikitōria i a mātou. Ka waimaria i a mātou.

     

    Anā ko te hua o tērā, i tae atu mātou ki Te Matatini i tū ki te papa reihi hōiho i Pōneke. Rua mano, tahi mano iwa rau iwā tekau mā waru te tau. 

     

    Anā, i tua atu o te whakataetae anā, ko te mahi i ngā pō, he taki merimeri, anā ka whakawhanaunga katoa ngā kapa haka i tērā wā. Kua makere te pōtae whakataetae a kua mau ko te pōtae kuru tāima.

     

    Anā, kua waiata kua noho ki te whakangahau. Koirā ngā tino maumaharatanga i ahau i tērā wā. Te Hono a Te Kiore, anā Te Rangimarie. Anā, ko māua hoki ko Pania, a Puka, i te whare wānanga tēnei e whakahaere ana i te cultural hour, te kapa haka hour.

     

    Anā, i Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato i tērā tāima, ko te huhua o ngā kaihaka mai i ngā kapa haka katoa o te motu. Anā, ka hau pū mai ki reira, i te Wenerei pea, mai i te tahi karaka ki te rua karaka, anā he ako i ngā waiata o Tainui. “E noho Te Ataairangikahu e Ata”. Ngā waiata a Ngoingoi Pewhairangi, “Whakarongo”. Ngā waiata a Timoti Karetu.

     

    Anā, koirā taku mōhiotanga ki ngā haka taparahi o Te Tai Rāwhiti, o Ngāti Porou a “Ka Panapana”, a “Rūaumoko.”

    Engari neke atu i te, ētahi tāima neke atu i te kotahi rau mātou ngā tauira. Anā, he kura mahara tērā.

     

    However, at that time I would frequently return home to the weaponry wānanga of Te Matarua under the tutelage of weaponry experts, experienced warriors, such as Mowai Tihi and Te Hue Rangi, and Te Hē Akurangi. So, time goes by and I begin to pursue the baskets of Tāwhaki, those of education, so I befriended some Māori from around the country. 

     

     

    That’s when I stood for the kapa haka of Rangimarie. And the leaders were Pania Papa and her partner Puka Moeau. That was the Papa family, Rahui and co, Stan, Watson Ohia and the like.

     

    All of us were at university so I felt fortunate to perform at the regional competition of Waikato Tainui. And we won. We were lucky.

     

     

    What came of that was we went to the Te Matatini that was held at the racecourse in Wellington in 1998. 

     

    And in addition to the competition side of things, the stuff that happened at night was big merry parties and the haka teams all socialised at that time. The competitive hat came off and the good time hat was put on.

     

    So, we would sing and we would sit and entertain. Those are my strongest memories of that time. Te Hono a Te Kiore, and Te Rangimarie. Pania, Puka and I were at the university and we organised a cultural hour, the kapa haka hour.

     

    So, at Waikato University at that time, there were lots of performers from teams all over the country who would arrive there on a Wednesday maybe, from one o’clock to two o’clock, and learn the songs of Tainui. “E noho Te Ataairangikahu e Ata” The songs of Ngoingoi Pewhairangi, “Whakarongo”. The songs of Tīmoti Kāretu.

     

    So that’s how I know about the haka taparahi of the East Coast, of Ngāti Porou such as “Ka Panapana” and “Rūaumoko.”

    But sometimes we would get over one hundred students. That’s a treasured memory.

    Mai i te whakawhiti atu ki Te Hono a Te Kiore ki Te Rangimarie, e pēhea te huri i tō tāera i te tū a Tūhoe ki te tū a Tainui? Pēhea, he uaua rānei?

    So, in crossing over from Te Hono a Te Kiore to Te Rangimarie, how did your style change from that of Tūhoe to that of Tainui? How was it, was it difficult?

    Ko te pai o Te Rangimarie i tērā wā ko te tū, i whai mātou i te tū a ngā kaiako me ngā kaihaka. Nō reira ētahi he kaihaka tawhito nō te kapa haka o Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato, ētahi nō waho kē atu o te rohe.

     

     

    Engari āe. Korekau e tino tawhiti atu i te tū a Tūhoe. Āhua whānui ake ngā waewae, ngā rakanga waewae. Engari ko te rerekēhanga nui ko tēnei mea ko te waiata. Te taha waiata.

     

    Nā te mea he toki katoa ngā tangata ki te waiata.

    Manu tīoriori te pai mutunga. Nō reira koirā i ako haere ki te whakamahana i te korokoro, kaua e wherēte, kia mau ki tō tune, te rangi o te waiata. Anā koirā te tohungatanga a Pania me tana hoa a Puka.

     

    Anā, i reira hoki ka tūtaki atu ahau ki taku taha Te Whakatōhea. Waku uri o reira, anā, ko Te Kahautu hoki tētahi o mātou ngā kaiako i tērā wā. Anā, i a māua e kapu tī ana i tētahi rangi ka mea mai te Māori ki au, “oh me hoki mai koe ki te taha ki tō kuia kia Teri Kouka ki Waioeka, ki Ōpeke, ki Ōpōtiki Mai Tawhiti.

     

    Ka mea, “āe, āe pai tērā.” Anā ka whakaritea he wēne, anā koirā tō mātou waka atu mai i Waikato ki Ōpōtiki ki a Ngāti Ngahere, ki a Waioeka, Ngāti Rua ērā o ngā marae, Ōmarumutu, Te Rere āe. Anā mō Ōpōtiki Mai Tawhiti.

     

    Anā i tū te whakataetae ā-rohe a Mataatua i konei. Te papa hutupōro. Anā, he āhua tumeke ngā mea o te kāinga o Rūātoki, ea kei te aha te poi nei. E tū nei a ia i Te Arawa kapa i a Ōpōtik i Mai Tawhiti.

    Anā, he aha rā, i aha rā ka wini i a mātou.

    The good thing about Te Rangimarie at that time was the stance, we followed the style of the tutors and the performers. Some of them were ex-students of the Waikato University kapa haka team and others were from outside of the region.

     

    But yeah. I didn’t stray too far from the Tūhoe stance. The legs were a bit wider; the footwork was skillful. But the main difference was in the singing side of things.

     

    Because we were all great singers. Wonderful singers. So, we learnt to warm up our throats and not to go flat, to hold a tune and the key of the song. That was Pania and her partner Puka’s expertise.

     

     

    That’s also where I learnt about my Te Whakatōhea side. My relations from there were the likes of Te Kahautu who was also one of our tutors at that time. One day we were having a cuppa and this Māori says to me, “Oh, you must come back to your grandmother Teri Kouka’s side, to Waioeka, Ōpeke and Ōpotiki Mai Tawhiti.

     

    I say, “yes, okay then.” So a van was arranged and that was our vehicle from Waikato through to Ōpōtiki, to Ngāti Ngahere, to Waioeka, to Ngāti Rua and the marae of Ōmarumutu, Te Rere, yeah. That was for Ōpōtiki Mai Tawhiti.

     

     

    The Mātaatua regional competition was held here on the rugby field. And the ones from home, from Rūātoki were taken aback, saying “Ea, what is this boy doing. He’s performing in Te Arawa, and in Ōpōtiki Mai Tawhiti.” And what do you know, we won.

    Ka wini i a mātou anā ka whakamate atu ngā kapa haka ki te Con, te pāparakāuta kei Whakatāne nei. Anā, ka noho mātou anā, ka piapia, ka waiata, ngahau. Pārekareka katoa wērā āhuatanga i tērā wā.

    We won and then the haka teams all went down to the Con, that’s the pub here in Whakatāne. We would sit and drink beer and sing and have fun. Those sorts of things were most enjoyable back then.

    Mai i tērā tū, kia hoki mai tāua ki te tū a Ngāi Tūhoe. Koirā rā te take i tōia mai ai te taharua, he aha te tū a Tūhoe?

     

     

    From that performance, we returned to the stance of Ngāi Tūhoe. That was the reason for drawing on the multi-tribal people, what is the stance of Tūhoe?

     

     

    Ko te tū a Tūhoe ko te āhuru mowai o Te Urewera, ko te tū a Tūhoe ko te whakapepehahanga o tō maunga, o tō awa i o whenua taurikura, o tō marae, o tō tupuna whare.

     

    Ngā āhuatanga katoa tuku iho ka mutu he kura huna kei roto i te toto o te tangata. Nō reira ko te tū a Tūhoe, ko te mau a Tūhoe, me te reo a Tūhoe ka noho ngātahi katoa wērā, ka tōpū katoa ērā āhuatanga e toru.

     

    Ko te tū a Tūhoe, kei roto i te tū ka kitea, ka ahoaho mai te kitea o ngā pākohu tihi maunga o Te Urewera nē. Ka ahoaho mai te kitea o te whenua āhuru mōwai, a ko Te Urewera tērā.

     

    Ka ahoaho mai te kitea a te tū a mea koroua, a mea kuia kua ngaro atu rātou ki te pō. Nō reira ko te tū a Tūhoe, ko Ngāi Tūhoe tāukiuki, arā ko Ngāi Tūhoe kua ngaro ki te pō, ko Ngāi Tūhoe o nāianei, ko Ngāi Tūhoe kāre anō kia whānau mai ki te ao. Nō reira, he huhua ngā kōrero mō te tū a Tūhoe.

     

    Ko te tū marae ki te umu pokapoka, te tū a te tū tāne, te tū wāhine. Kāore au e kōrero mō te taha wāhine engari mō te taha tāne, he tū one te tū.

     

     

    He popoki ngā waewae, ko te uma kei waho, torotika te tuarā, ko te kanohi e anga atu ana ki mua pēnei tonu i te koruru o te whare, te mataaho o te whare. Ko ngā ringa kei te whakakurepe, kei te māueue, mai i te kira o te māhunga titi atu ki te whenua.

    The stance of Tūhoe is the sheltered haven of Te Urewera, the stance of Tūhoe is boasting about your mountain, of your river, of your paradise, of your marae, and of your ancestral house.

     

    The things that are passed down, also, there is important knowledge in a person’s blood. So the stance of Tūhoe, the wield of Tūhoe and the language of Tūhoe, those things three things go hand in hand.

     

    Within the stance of Tūhoe, the many mountains of Te Urewera become evident. The calm lands that are Te Urewera become evident.

     

     

    The stance of the elderly men and women who have been lost into the night becomes evident. So, the stance of Tūhoe is the stance of olden day Ngāi Tūhoe, of Ngāi Tūhoe who has been lost into the night, of modern day Ngāi Tūhoe and Ngāi Tūhoe who has not yet been born into the world. There is lots to say about the stance of Tūhoe.

     

    The stance on the marae, on the fiery ovens of Tūmatauenga, the stance of the men and of the women. I won’t speak on the women but regarding the men, the stance is earth-like.

     

    The legs are kneecapped, the chest is out, the back is straight, the face faces straight out just like the carved face of a meeting house. The hands are shaking and trembling, from the head to the land.

    Ko te riaka kia kitea mai te pukupuku o ngā uaua. Ko te reo, he reo kīrehe mohoao, he reo whakaraara, he reo whakaoho wairua, mehemea he rākau kei te ringa ko te waewae he tatangi, he tātaka. Kia pohu i a koe, kia ngako i a koe te whenua. Kia mōhio ai ngā ope whakaeke ko wai te rangatira, ko wai te mananui o te whenua.

     

    Nō reira koirā i roto i te kupu poto koirā te tū a Tūhoe. Engari he nui ngā whakawhiu me ngā whakawai o tēnei ao hurihuri. Arā, ko ngā uri ka hokihoki mai ki te kāinga kei te pōhehetia anei kē te tū a Tūhoe. Engari kei te whai kē rātou i te tū o tō rātou kapa haka.

     

    Anā, he pīki mahi ki te whakawhenua anō i te tū a Tūhoe ki ērā o tātou ngā uri nā te mea ko te whenua koirā te here urupito o ngā uri o Ngāi Tūhoe ki a ia anō. Nā reira te kaupapa ake o Te Ahurei a Tūhoe kia mau ki te tū a Tūhoe, te mau a Tūhoe, me te reo o Tūhoe.

    The energy is seen through the protruding of the muscles. The voice is like that of a wild animal, one that awakens, one that awakens the spirits. If there is a stick in the hand then the leg is doing tatangi, and tātaka. So that the ground explodes beneath you. So that the oncoming tribes know who the boss of the lands is.

     

    So that’s the short story about the Tūhoe stance. But there are lots of diversions in this ever-changing world. The descendants of Tūhoe are returning home and mistakenly thinking this is the stance of Tūhoe. But they are actually following that of their kapa haka team.

     

    It's a big task to reset the Tūhoe stance in those of our descendants because it is the land that is the umbilical connection of the descendants of Ngāi Tūhoe to itself. So, the purpose of Te Ahurei a Tūhoe is to hold fast to the stance of Tūhoe, the wield of Tūhoe and the language of Tūhoe.

    Nā kua nōhia e koe ngā rekereke o te momo pēnei i a Hirini Melbourne, i a Te Wharehuia, ērā mātanga toki ki te tārai i te kupu. He toki hoki koe ki te tārai i tēnei mea te kupu. Ko koe tētahi o ngā kaitito i ngā titonga motuhake a Ngāi Tūhoe.

     

    Ko wai o tino kaiwhakaaweawe ka tīkina, ka tīpakohia mai e koe ngā whakaawenga i hea?

    So, you’ve sat at the ankles of the likes of Hirini Melbourne, Te Wharehuia and those sorts of composition experts. You yourself are also a carver of words. You are one of the composers of Ngāi Tūhoe’s unique compositions.

     

    Who were your influencers, where do you gain or draw inspiration from?

     

    Kia ora mō te pātai. Ko te kura tāukiuki, te toki kapukapu i te kupu. Ehara i te hanga noa, ehara i te mea kei runga i te ipurangi, kei runga i tō waea pūkoro. Anā, hoki atu ki te urupito, hono ki te whenua, nō reira.

     

    Anā, nō ngā whāruarua ngā wai tuku oha, ngā maunga kārangaranga, ngā puhi taioreore o tātou, ngā marae maha, marae kura. Ko te tauiratanga pea ko “Te Hokokura,” nā te mea ko “Te Hokokura” i whānau mai i runga i te whakaaro a Te Taunuke Kororangi i te tau rua mano tekau mā whā, tekau mā rima kia whakatāhia “Te Pūru” Mō Te Hui Ahurei a Tūhoe tēnei.

     

    Thanks for the question. The ancient treasures are the adze that carves the words. It’s not just made up or found on the internet or on your phone.

    Return to your home, connect to the land, it comes from there.

     

    It comes from the valleys, from the sustenance-giving waters, the mountains, the puhi taioreore the many marae, and schools. The example, perhaps, is “Te Hokokura” because “Te Hokokura” was born from the idea of Te Taunuke Kororangi in 2014 or 15 to retire “Te Pūru”. This is in regard to Te Hui Ahurei a Tūhoe.

    Anā, ka hanga, ka tito i tētahi haka hou. Nō reira kua oti kē i a mātou Te Kura Parakōwhai a Tūhoe, te whakairo i a “Te Hokokura.”

    Anā, ka tae ki te wā o te hui, te wānanga i tū ki Rotorua ki Mataatua marae.

     

    Anā, ka whakatakotohia a “Te Hokokura” ka hakaina e mātou a “Te Hokokura” me ōna whakamārama, ōna tātai kōrero katoa. Anā, ka whakaae mai te hui, ngā kapa haka.

     

    Te nuinga i reira ētahi tokoiti pea karekau i tae mai ki te hui anā, he mate tērā nā te mea ka kore koe e tae mai ki te wānanga kāre koe e whiwhi ngā whakamārama nē. 

     

    Ngā tāheke kōrero mō taua waiata, o taua haka rā.

    Nō reira, ko “Te Hokokura” i hakaina ki Te Hui Ahurei i tū ki Rūātoki, rua mano tekau mā ono te tau.

     

    Anā, ko Te Hui Ahurei i tū ki Rotorua, rua mano tekau mā whitu, tekau mā waru pea. Anā, koirā te matua haka. Engari ko te mātāmua o “Te Hokokura” ko “Te Pūru.” Nā te mea ko “Te Pūru” he taonga tērā he taonga nui whakahirahira tēnā i roto i te toto o tāua o Ngāi Tūhoe.

     

    Nā reira i whāia te tauira o “Te Pūru” i roto i ngā kupu, i roto i te ia o te haka, te wairua o te haka i roto i te tū a “Te Pūru”, ko te tū tērā a “Te Hokokura.”

    So, we made and composed a new haka. So us of Te Kura Parakōwhai a Tūhoe had already finished crafting “Te Hokokura.”

    And then it came to the meeting, the wānanga that was held in Rotorua at Mataatua marae.

     

    And so “Te Hokokura” was laid down, and we performed “Te Hokokura” and its explanations, its histories. The kapa haka at the meeting accepted.

     

     

    Most of them were in attendance, there were probably a few who didn’t make it to the meeting. That’s a problem because if you don’t turn up to the wānanga then you aren’t privy to the explanations aye. 

     

    The stories that have been handed down about that song or haka. So “Te Hokokura” was performed at a Hui Ahurei that was held in Rūātoki in the year 2016.

     

    Then, at Te Hui Ahurei that was held in Rotorua in 2017, or 2018, that was the main haka. But the elder sibling of “Te Hokokura” is “Te Pūru.”

    Because “Te Pūru” was a significant gift of our bloodline of Tūhoe.

     

     

    So, we used “Te Pūru” as an example in terms of the words, in terms of the beat and the spirit of the haka and the stance of “Te Pūru”, that’s also the stance of “Te Hokokura”.

    Nā reira e tata ana tō tāua waka kōrero ki uta, heoi anō he aha, e mārama ana au he nui ngā tāera pūkana a Ngāi Tūhoe, he aha wērā?

    So, our canoe has nearly reached land, however, I understand there are lots of styles of pūkana that Ngāi Tūhoe have. What are those?

    Ko ngā tāera pūkana, ka hoki mai tātou ki te pepeha. Kua hoki mai tātou ki te tipuna whare. Nā te mea koirā tō whare kōrero, tō whare haka, tō whare tapere nē.

     

    Kei te koruru tonu o te whare, te mata o Tāne. Kei reira ka kitea te putē mai o ngā karu.

     

    Karekau e moe. He mōhito tērā momo kanohi nē. Ko te tikanga o te mōhito he toa mataara nē. Karekau e moe, anā, ko te kanohi tērā o te rangatira kāore e tuohu te māhunga.

     

    Ko te anga whakamua kei te titiro kē a ia ki tata, kei te titiro ia ki tawhiti. Ko tana tū, haere mai engari ko ahau te rangatira o tēnei whenua, nōku te mana motuhake o tēnei marae. 

     

    Mai i tērā pito o te whenua ki tērā pito o te whenua.

     

    Kia mōhio mai koutou e mātakitaki mai ana ko ahau te rangatira karekau i tua atu kāre i tua mai.

     

    Koirā ngā momo kanohi kei runga i ngā whakaairo, ngā poupou o ngā whare tīpuna.

     

    Kei roto hoki i ngā kaitiaki taniwha o te whenua, o te ngahere, o te waonui. Ka kite i reira te kanohi, te kanohi, te tū, te wiri o ngā ringa, ka pā ki te haka engari ko te mōteatea, ko te waiata ā-ringa ērā momo taonga katoa.

    The styles of pūkana go back to the pepeha. We return to the ancestral house. Because that is your house of knowledge, your house of haka, your house of entertainment aye.

     

    On the carved face on the gable of the meeting house is the face of Tāne. There you will see the wide-eyed stare of the eyes.

     

    They don’t sleep. Those sorts of eyes are “mōhito”. A “mōhito” is an alert warrior aye. He does not sleep, that is the face of a chief who does not bow his head.

     

    He faces forward but he’s looking near and far. His stance is telling you to come but know that I am the chief of these lands, I hold sovereignty over this marae. 

     

    From that point of the land over to that point. 

     

    All you observers need to know that I am the chief and there is none other than me.

     

    Those are the sorts of faces that are on the carvings, the posts of the ancestral houses. 

     

    It’s also in the spiritual guardians of the land and the forests. There, you see the faces, the face, the stance, the quivering of the hands, it affects the haka, but also the traditional chant, the action song, and all of those treasures.

    Ki o whakaaro kei te ahu pēhea te tū a Ngāi Tūhoe i ngā mata nei, ka mutu he aha o moemoeā mō te tū a Tūhoe hei te anamata?

    In your opinion, what direction is Ngāi Tūhoe heading in this field, and also what are your dreams for the Tūhoe stance in the future?

    Heoi anō kei te kaha tonu a Ngāi Tūhoe ki te whakahaere i ngā kura wānanga ā-whānau, ā-hapū, ā-iwi. Ā, ko te kura tāukiuki nā runga i te tukinga o te mate huaketo nei i tīnihia Te Hui Ahurei mai tērā tau anā, mai tērā atu tau.

     

    Engari, ko te huarahi tuku whakaako i te tū a Tūhoe, te tū a haka, te tū a waiata, te tū a poi a Tūhoe, te tū whaikōrero ērā āhuatanga katoa. 

     

    Ka kore e tareka ā kanohi, anā me titiro ki ngā hangarau o te Pākehā.  

     

    Pēnei i te Zoom, te ipurangi ērā mea katoa, tā te mea ki te kore tātou e kaha ki te wānanga, ki te whakaū i te tū a Tūhoe ka mokorea, ka ngaro.

    Ngāi Tūhoe does well at running familial, sub-tribal and tribal kura wānanga, the ancient treasures. But because of the virus, Te Hui Ahurei was postponed.

     

     

    But the pathway to teach the Tūhoe stance, the haka stance, the song stance, the poi stance of Tūhoe, the oratory stance and all those sorts of things. 

     

    If it’s not able to be done in person, then we must turn to Pākehā technology.

     

    Such as Zoom, online and those things, because if we don’t continue to wānanga, to solidify the stance of Tūhoe, it will become scarce and then lost.

    Nō reira, ko “Te Puru” hoki tētahi kaupapa, i kōrero hoki ahau ki te wānanga a ngā kaiwhakawā o Te Ahurei a Tūhoe, te titiro ki te pūtakenga mai o “Te Pūru”.

     

    Nā te mea ahakoa koinā te haka rongonui a te iwi, kei te ngaro te taha tikanga me te taha ki ngā kōrero tātai kōrero tuku iho a “Te Pūru.” 

     

    I tīmata mai a “Te Puru” i hea? He aha te momo haka a “Te Pūru? He aha te tikanga o ngā kupu? Ko wai ngā mātua tūpuna i hakaina tuatahia i taua haka rā? 

     

    Koirā ngā kura wānanga hei ngā rā e tū mai nei, ngā tau e tū mai nei, engari kia kamakama tātou ki te kōkiri i wēnei kaupapa.

    So “Te Pūru” is one topic, I also said this at the judges meeting for Te Ahurei a Tūhoe, to look at the origins of “Te Pūru”.

     

     

    Because despite that being the famous haka of the tribe, the custom and the genealogy is being lost regarding “Te Pūru.” 

     

    Where did “Te Pūru” originate from? What sort of haka is “Te Pūru?” What is the meaning of the words? Who were the ancestors who first performed that haka? 

     

    Those are the sorts of sacred knowledge that will be shared in the days to come and in the years to come. But we need to be on to it in getting these initiatives kicked off.

    Taku pātai whakamutunga e Hatu, he aha ētahi kupu whakatenatena ki ngā tamariki, ki ngā pouako hoki ka whai wāhi mai ki tēnei kaupapa o Te Ao Haka ka whakapūmautia ki roto i te marautanga ako hei te tau e tū mai nei. He aha ētahi kupu whakatenatena ki te hunga mātakitaki?

    My final question, Hatu, what are some words of encouragement you have for the children and for the teachers who will take part in this initiative that is Te Ao Haka that will be implemented into the curriculum this coming year. What are some encouraging words you have for the viewers?

     

    Heoi anō ko te puha whakaaraara i puea ake i te wānanga kura tāukiuki a Ngāi Tūhoe i tū ki Te Rewarewa i te tau rua mano tekau mā rima, “Te iti a Tūhoe kia mau ki te tū. He iti rearea kia mau ki te tū. He iti matakahi kia mau ki te tū. Kia mau ki te tū a Tūhoe, ki te mau a Tūhoe, ki te reo o Ngāi Tūhoe tāukiuki”.

     

    Koinei tō tātou tuakiri.

    Koinei te hono urupito i a tātou ki tō tātou āhuru mōwai. Ki ngā marae kura, ngā kura maha o ngā taiororua, o te rohe o Ngāi Tūhoe, mai uta ki tai, mai i te rangi ki te whenua, i roto i ngā whakatupuranga papa reanga kei te tū mai.

     

    Nō reira kia kaha tātou ngā uri o Tūhoe te hokihoki ki o tātou nā hapū, te hokihoki ki ngā kura wānanga, kura parawhakawai, kura matarua, kei reira te momo tūahi, kei reira ngā whare whakahekeheke kōrero o Tūhoe tawhito, o Tūhoe o te ao hou nei.

     

    The puha whakaaraara that came about at the Wānanga Kura Tāukiuki of Ngāi Tūhoe that was held at Te Rewarewa in 2015, says “Te Iti a Tūhoe, kia mau ki te tū. He iti rearea kia mau ki te tū. He iti matakahi kia mau ki te tū. Kia mau ki te tū a Tūhoe, ki te mau a Tūhoe, ki te reo o Ngāi Tūhoe tāukiuki.”

     

     

    This is our identity.

    This is what connects us to our sheltered haven. To the marae, and the many schools of the valley, and of the region of Ngāi Tūhoe, from the land to the sea, from the sky to the land, within the up-and-coming generations.

     

     

    So, we, the descendants of Tūhoe need to return home frequently to our sub-tribes, return frequently to the learning institutions, the parawhakawai trainings, the kura matarua, the types of tuahi and the dissemination house of the histories of olden day Tūhoe, and of Tūhoe of the modern day.

    Nō reira ka whakairihia a tāua kōrero i te rā nei e taku rangatira, mō o taringatahi[1] , Tākuta Haturini McGarvey tēnei te au o mihi te pari atu nei ki a koe, te waipuke atu nei ki runga ki a koe. Otirā kia whakairihia ngā kōrero ki te paitara o tō tātou whare kia whakamaua ai kia tina, tina. Haumi e, hui e, tāiki e!

    So, I’ll suspend our conversation now, my chief, mō o taringatahi Doctor Haturini McGarvey. Here I acknowledge you and send waves of thanks to you. Let me suspend our conversation upon the walls of our house. Hold fast, fix, affirm!

    panning view of a river and bridge to an birds eye view of a village. A camera shot of the entrance into Taneatua with road and maunga and the village as well as a “Taneatua” sign. A quick shot of a previous interview and camera shot then changes to a sign of Ruatoki and a moving car with a house and maunga in the background. Camera then changes shot and pans upwards over the river and then shot of both Edward and Helene singing. Camera then moves to interviewer Te Okiwa McLean in the studio and also Te Okiwa playing guitar for the beautiful Turuhira Hare. Camera then returns to a shot of Taneatua township and moves to a sunny day with whanau swimming in the awa. Two quick shots of previous interviewees performing and camera then pans out to a birds eye view of awa and then into maunga.

     

    [ Accordion ]

    With music playing in the background] 

     

    Being displayed are video images Waitangi Treaty Grounds and northland beaches. Next is a a close up of the wharf beach and the road sign for Kaikohe. Videos of monuments from the north and the whare Runanga at Waitangi Treaty Grounds then back to beaches and a close up on the carved pou. Flicking from images of carvings and beaches with sunsets. Then there is a short snippet of a mural on a street with people walking before shooting to a shot of the Mangamuka Radio station, then the welcome sign in Kaitaia and the road sign of Doubtless Bay and Bay of Islands ending with a shot of the Tino rangatiratanga flag before the final shot of Waitangi with Te Tai Tokerau title. The intro closes off with text “Te Ao Haka” accompanied by the Te Ao Haka logo.

    Te Reo Pākehā

    Te Reo Māori

    Ka titiro hoki au ki runga ki raro ki waenganui kei whea ake rā hei oranga mō tōku māoritanga e, Auē kei tēnei tuku rānei, kei tērā tuku rānei kei te koraha noa pea porepore mai ana e,

     

    Auē kaua rā e tukuna kia riro te mana me te wehi, te tapu me te ihi kei heke atu ki te whenua ka oti atu ki te pō. Auē koia nei ngā mea e wawatatia nei e tōku ngākau e. Auē ka whakaanui ngā iwi o te motu. Auē, Auē ha.

     

    Greetings to you, Mori, welcome to our programme at this hour of the day. Here, we celebrate te ao haka for our children and grandchildren in the North. So welcome. Who are you, and where are you from?

    Ka titiro hoki au ki runga ki raro ki waenganui kei whea ake rā hei oranga mō tōku māoritanga e, Auē kei tēnei tuku rānei, kei tērā tuku rānei kei te koraha noa pea porepore mai ana e,

     

    auē kaua rā e tukuna kia riro te mana me te wehi, te tapu me te ihi kei heke atu ki te whenua ka oti atu ki te pō. Auē koia nei ngā mea e wawatatia nei e tōku ngākau e. Auē ka whakanui ngā iwi o te motu. Auē, Auē ha.

     

    Tēnā rā koe e Mori, nau mai ki tā tātou kaupapa i tēnei hāora o te rā. Anā, ki te whakanui i te ao haka mō ā tātou tamariki, mokopuna ki roto ki te Tai Tokerau. Tēnā nau mai, haere mai. Ko wai koe, nō hea koe?

    Greetings to you, dear sister, and thank you for the request to come and support this great initiative for our children and grandchildren. So once again, I greet you. My name is Mori Rapana. I am a descendant of the sacred house of Ngāpuhi, and all of my being is from there.

     

     

    My ancestor jumped the fence just like other ancestors who lived in this region, in the North. I am a descendant of his.

    Tēnā koe e te tuāhine, otirā tēnā koe me tēnei tono āku, te hau mai ki te tautoko i tēnei kaupapa rangatira rawa atu mō ngā tamariki, mokopuna te take. Nō reira, kāti ake, e mihi atu ana rā ki a koe. Ko Mori Rapana tōku nei ingoa. He uri ahau nō te whare tapu o Ngāpuhi me taku katoatia nō te whare tapu o Ngāpuhi.

     

    Arā tāku tupuna e hūpeke taiapa pērā ki ētahi o ngā tupuna ka noho pū ki tēnei rohe o tātou i te Tai Tokerau. Engari anō rā mō tana uri nei, hoi. Ko au tēnā.

    Thank you, Mori. Mori, kia kōrero tahi tāua mō tō tomonga tuatahi ki te ao haka. Kōrero mai. I pēhea rā tērā?

    Tēnā koe Mori. Mori, let's talk about your first interaction with te ao haka. Tell us about that. What was that like?

    My haka journey, if you like, started when I was just a child, still crawling around my parents’ feet at that time. We were living in Auckland. Back in those days, there were entertainment kapa who performed in Auckland, and entertainment sports too. Some of the kapa included Matawhaurua, Taiamai, Tīmatoa, and Tūmanako. That was a bigger deal than any other competitions at that time, when I was a child.

     

    There was one entertainment team, Tīmatoa, my parents joined that team. The tutors were Bill Hetaraka, Wiremu Hetaraka, from Ruawharo, and his wife, Aunty Norma, and finally Uncle William.

     

    That was my introduction into kapa haka. Each Tuesday and Wednesday we would practice kapa haka in a hall in Rānui, that’s in West Auckland. I’d go there with my parents; we would see these aunties and uncles doing their own thing in kapa haka. That was my introduction into te ao haka. Yeah.

    I timata taku hīkoi haka me kī, i ahau e nepa ana e timotimo haere ana ki ngā rekereke o āku mātua i taua wā. I Tāmaki Makaurau mātou e noho ana. I aua wā ka tū ētahi o ngā kapa ngahau i roto i a Tāmaki Makaurau me ngā hākinakina ngahau. Ētahi o ngā kapa Matawhaurua, Taiamai, Tīmatoa, Tūmanako. He mea pīki rawa atu tērā atu o ngā kaupapa ngahau i taua wā, i a au e tamariki ana.

     

     

    Ka tū tētahi kapa ngahau te Tīmatoa, ka uru āku mātua ki roto i taua tīma rā, ko ngā kaiako haka mō taua kapa ko Bill Hetaraka, Wiremu Hetaraka, nō Ruawharo, me tana hoa wāhine aunty Norma and Uncle William.

     

    Koirā te timatanga o taku hīkoi haka i a Rātū, Raapa, ka parakatihi e te kapa ki tētahi hōro ki roto i a Rānui ki Tāmaki ki te uru. Ka haere tahi au me ōku mātua i reira, ka kitea i wēnei o ngā aunties me ngā uncles me kī, e mahi ana i tō rātou ake mahi haka. Koirā taku timatanga i te ao haka. Āe.

    How old were you?

    He aha tō pakeke?

    I was five years old at the time. From the age of five ‘til about ten.

    Taku pakeke i taua wā ko te rima. E rima taku pakeke tae atu rā ki a tekau pea.

    So, what sorts of skills did you acquire from those times, from Uncle Willy, from Aunty Norma and them, what teachings did they impart onto you?

    Nō reira he aha ngā momo pūkenga i tau ki runga i a koe i ērā wā rā, i a uncle Willy, i a aunty Norma ērā mea, he aha wā rātou akoranga ki runga ki a koe?

    Their love for te ao haka. It wasn’t a competition; it was purely a thing of entertainment. Everything was happy. All of the songs composed were happy, a happy tune, happy words. So those are some of the things I learnt from that pair.

     

    A lot of the songs that they composed were really hari hari, because it was a kapa ngahau, it was all about entertainment, and they used to compete against other entertaining kapa that were set up at the time. And so that's where my passion for hakas actually grew.

     

    And because of also, at that time, hakas wasn't really that big in terms of, well, whakataetae, I didn't know about whakataetae at that time. And we are talking the mid-70s, early 80s here. And so, all I knew was hakangahau.

     

    And some of the songs were to famous songs or party songs and Pākehā tunes, and you just put Māori words to them. And these were some of the Pākehā tunes that I used to hear in the garage parties and go along with our parents. We've all been there.

     

    And then they used to put Māori kupu to those Pākehā tunes. And I used to resonate with them, and I thought it's absolutely beautiful. And so, I took a lot away from them. They were quite hard too; at times they could be quite hard.

     

    There were times where, later on, as I grew a little bit older, that they started to delve into the whakataetae, Manu Ariki entered into comps down there. Rātana Pā. They used to have competition whakataetae down there. Kaihū in Dargaville.

     

    So, they started moving into the whakataetae stuff, and that's where I got a bit of a taste for whakataetae. We were a tamariki group. And of course there was a pakeke group as well.

    Ō rātou ngākau nui ki tō tātou taonga, te ao haka. Ehara i te whakataetae he mea ngahau noa iho. Hari katoa, ko ngā waiata katoa ā rātou e kai tito ana, e hari katoa ana i te oro, e hari katoa ngā kupu. Nō reira, koirā ētahi o ngā hua i kai ai au mai te tokorua rā.

     

    Ko te nuinga o ngā waiata i titoa, he waiata hari, nā te mea he kapa ngahau, arā, ko te whakangahau te mea nui. I pakanga rātou ki ētahi atu kapa ngahau i whakatūria i taua wā. Nā reira koirā te pupūtanga ake o tōku ngākaunui ki te kapa haka.

     

    Waihoki, i taua wā, kāore i tino nui te arohia o te mahi whakataetae, kāore aku mōhiotanga ki te whakataetae i taua wā. Ko ngā tau waenga o ngā 70 tērā, āhua 80 rānei. Ko tāku i mōhio ai ko te hakangahau.

     

    Ko ētahi o ngā rangi waiata he waiata rongonui, he waiata pāti, he rangi Pākehā, kua kākahuria ki te kupu Māori. Koinei ngā momo waiata i rangona i ngā pāti i te hēti i haere tahi ai mātou ko ōku mātua. Katoa tātou kua pērā.

     

    Kātahi ka āpitihia he kupu Māori ki aua rangi Pākehā. I tino pā mai ērā waiata ki ahau, he ātaahua. Nā reira he nui ngā akoranga. I uaua hoki, he wā ōna i uaua.

     

     

    He wā ōna i uru atu rātou ki ngā whakataetae, nōku ka pakeke haere, ki a Manu Ariki, ki Rātana Pā. I aua rā i tū tētahi whakataetae ki reira, ki Kaihū, ki Tākiriwā.

     

     

    Nā reira i tīmata tā rātou ahu atu ki ngā mahi whakataetae, koirā te wā i āta kite ai ahau i ngā mahi whakataetae. He rōpū taitamariki mātou. I reira hoki te rōpū pakeke.

    Yeah. Entertainment, competition, what do you like best?

    Ngahau, whakataetae, Ko tēhea te mea pai ake?

    The entertainment.

    Ko te ngahau.

    Why? Tell us a bit.

    He aha ai? Tēnā, kōrero mai.

    Oh, there’s no pressure on you when you’re on the stage, first of all. There are no rules regarding mistakes on the stage, it’s okay to make mistakes, you should make mistakes. But when it comes to competition, competition is good, but there’s another place for competition.

     

    But yeah, the whakataetae is quite stressing, it can be quite stressful. And you put yourself out there to be ridiculed and judged on any hapa that you make. And that's why for me, ngahau, I love ngahau because we get to perform with our tamariki. We get to perform with our pakeke our kāumatua. We get to perform alongside our siblings and our mums and dads, an opportunity that many of us wouldn't get.

     

    And I had that opportunity when I was young and growing up. And so, for me ngahau, you make a hapa nobody cares. You make mistakes, it's okay in ngahau but of course, whakataetae, you're judged on the mistakes that you make. So yeah, ngahau for me.

    Oh, horekau te taumahatanga i runga i a koe, i a koe e tū i runga i te papa tūwaewae, kātahi. Horeaku ngā ture i a koe e hapa ana mā runga i te papa tū waewae, pai ana me hapa, me hapa ka tika, heoi ko te whakataetae, he pai te whakataetae, he wāhi anō rā mō te whakataetae.

     

    Engari āe, he taumaha ngā mahi whakataetae, he tino taumaha. Nā, ka tū koe ki mua i te ao kia takahia ai koe, kia whakawāngia ai koe mō ō hapa katoa. Koirā ahau i aroha nui ai ki ngā mahi ngahau nā te mea e tū tahi ana ki ngā tamariki, ka tū tahi ki ngā pakeke, kaumātua. Ka tū tahi ki ngā tuākana, tēina, māmā, pāpā, me uaua ka pērā.

     

     

    I pērā hoki ahau nōku e epa ana, e pakeke ake ana. Nā reira, mōku, i ngā mahi ngahau, ki te hapa koe, kāore he aha ki a wai. Ka hapa ana koe, kei te pai i te ao ngahau. Engari anō i ngā whakataetae, ka whakawāngia koe mō ngā hapa. Nā reira, āe, ko te ngahau ki ahau te mea pai ake.

    Yeah. So how do you transfer your ngahau passion, performance, style into competition when things start getting hard?

    Āe. Ka pēhea tō whakawhiti i tō aroha, i tō tū me tō tāera ngahau ki te ao whakataetae ka taumaha haere ana ngā mahi?

    You enjoy. First, mōku ake, you got to know why you're there. You got to know why you're there, and what you want to achieve whilst you are with the kapa, the respective kapa whakataetae that you're with. And mōku ake, you need to be there for the cause and not the applause.

     

    And so, for me, I like to have fun. I like to be relaxed when I learn kupu, I like to be relaxed when I learn anything around the compositions and also taking that same āhua on stage and not being too hyped up, not being too stressed and being relaxed so that ki te wātea te hinengaro nē, kaha rere ai te wairua, ka taea.

     

    So that's the āhua that I take in. So, I think ngahau is probably around about 80% of whakataetae, and all it's āhuatanga. And that's what I take on stage. Enjoy, relax, and things will flow. They'll flow.

    Tuatahi rā, mōku ake, me mōhio pū koe ki tō pūtake. He aha te haere, he aha tāu e whai nei nōu e noho ana i te kapa, te kapa whakataetae kua hono atu rā koe. Mōku ake, me tae atu koe mō te kaupapa, kaua kia mihia koe.

     

     

    He pai ki ahau te whakangahau. Kia mauri tau ahau nōku e ako kupu ana, nōku e ako ana i ngā tūāhuatanga mō ngā titonga, ā, kia pērā anō hoki i runga i te papa tūwaewae, kia kaua e mauri rere e tutuki ai te kōrero “Ki te wātea te hinengaro”, nē, “kaha rere ai te wairua, ka taea.” 

     

    Nā reira koira tōku waiaro. Ko tōna 80% o ngā mahi whakataetae, he ngahau, me ōna āhuatanga katoa. Koirā tāku ka kawe ki te papa tūwaewae. Kia ngahau, kia mauri tau, kia rere kau noa. Ka rere kau noa.

     

    Yeah. What do you do to bring the stress levels down when we're under pressure? We know what it takes to actually get to the top. We know how much hard work we have to go through, blood, sweat, and tears, sometimes. 

     

    Battle wounds from our piupiu stabbing us, and all of those things can add to the stress. What do you do, to be able to lower those stress levels?

    Āe. He aha tō rautaki whakamāmā i ngā taumahatanga ka pēhia ana koe? Kei te mōhio tāua ki ngā āhuatanga e eke ai ki ngā taumata. Kei te mōhio tāua ki te kaha me pau, ngā toto, te tōtā, ngā roimata i ōna wā.

     

    He taotūtanga nō ngā wero mai a ngā piupiu, me aua mea katoa e taumaha ai te tangata. Me aha koe, e heke ai aua taumahatanga?

    Oh, look, for me, it's thinking about... Actually, my stress levels are de-stressed off stage. With my tamariki, my mokopuna, because we sacrifice a lot for 30 minutes on stage. 

     

    And for me, the stress levels are de-stressed when you're with your tamariki, your mokopuna, your partner, your significant other, those ones that you leave at home when you go to practice every weekend, and we train for four or five months of the year, and we sacrifice our whānau time.

     

    So, the de-stressing for me is ensuring that I spend as much time with my whānau, so that when I get to wānanga, my cup is full with the aroha of my whānau.

     

    And then I can let it all out there in the practice. And then after practice, go home and refill my cup. And that's the same in my lead up to whakataetae as well, because I'm able to switch off. I'm able to switch the whakataetae brain off, when I leave wānanga.

     

    And truth be honest with you, I really don't like learning at home. I really don't like having practices at home during the week, but it has to be done, because that's a part of the kaupapa that you signed up to when you join that respective kapa.

     

    If there's to be midweek practices, if there's to be trainings in the off week, that's what you sign up to, and that's the kaupapa I'm talking about.

     

    So, when you want to go into a kapa whakataetae, you need to ensure that you are absolutely committed to the kaupapa that is laid out by the ohu whakahaere, by ngā pouako, and roll with it. If you're not there for the kaupapa, then move aside because there's always someone else to take your spot.

    Mōku, ka heke ngā taumahatanga nōku ka heke i te papa tūwaewae. I te taha o āku tamariki me āku mokopuna, nā te mea i nui tā mātou i tuku ai mō ngā mīniti 30 i te papa tūwaewae.

     

    Mōku, ka heke ngā taumahatanga nōu ka noho atu ki ō tamariki, ki ō mokopuna, ki tō hoa, ki tō hoa rangatira, ki te hunga ka mahue iho ki te kāinga ka haere ana koe ki ngā whakaharatau i ia mutunga wiki, ka whakangungu mō ngā marama e whā, e rima rānei i te tau, ā, ka noho ko te whānau hei papa.

     

    Ko te rautaki whakaheke taumaha ko te āta noho atu ki taku whānau, ā, kia tae rawa ake ki te wānanga, kua kī taku kapu i te aroha o tōku whānau.

     

    Kātahi ka tukuna katoatia i te whakaharatau. Mutu ana te whakaharatau, kua hoki ahau ki te kāinga, whakakī anō ai i taku kapu. Ka pērā hoki i te rori ki te whakataetae, nā te mea ka taea te tīnei. Ka taea te tīnei i ngā whakaaro whakataetae, nōku ka wehe i te wānanga.

     

    Kia pono aku kōrero, kāore e pai ki ahau te ako i te kāinga. Kāore e pai ki ahau kia whakaharatau i te kāinga i te wiki, engari me pērā, koirā te kaupapa i hono atu ai koe nōu ka uru atu ki taua kapa.

     

     

    Mēnā he whakaharatau i ia wiki, he whakaharatau rānei i ia rua wiki, koirā tāu i hono atu ai, koirā te kaupapa e kōrero nei ahau.

     

    Nō reira, nōu ka uru atu ki tētahi kapa whakataetae, me tino ū koe ki te kaupapa kua whakatakotohia e te ohu whakahaere, e ngā pouako, ko tāu, he whai atu. Ki te kore koe e hāpai i te kaupapa, me puta, e wātea ai tō tūranga ki tētahi atu e tatari mai ana.

    Yeah. Cool. So, we spoke a little bit about whānau and how dedicated we have to be, and make sure that we're looking after our whānau before, and then committing to the kaupapa that we go into. So, what does commitment and dedication actually look like towards te ao haka? Within te ao haka?

    Āe. Rawe. Nā reira i paku kōrero tāua mō te whānau me te manawa rahi, me te āta tiaki i ō tātou whānau, waihoki te ū ki te kaupapa e uru atu ana tātou. Nā reira he aha te whakatinanatanga o te manawa rahi ki te ao haka? I roto i te ao haka?

    Oh, there's many different strands of commitment to te ao haka whakataetae. There's the financial commitment. That's huge. That's really huge.

     

    In fact, it can be the barrier that actually stops a lot of our tamariki from wanting to get into haka, even though they aspire to be performing in their favorite kapa, but there's the financial commitment, which is huge. There's the family commitment. Family sacrifices, that's a huge commitment in itself.

     

    Our babysitters, our mums and dads that look after our kids when mum and dad are at hakas. So, there's huge commitments there, but even though there's those huge commitments, there's the time factor as well.

     

    There's a time commitment as well that you have to make, but every time you make those commitments toward a taonga that is really, really precious to us as Māori, then the reward and the outcome balances itself out with the commitments that you actually need to make to aspire, to get on that stage alongside your favorite role model. And so that's the level of commitment that I'm sure every kaihaka makes.

     

    We have some people traveling for 10 hours to get to hakas, and that's a huge commitment, but that's a commitment they've chosen because they believe in the kaupapa of the kapa in which they're standing for.

     

    And they also may have iwi or hapū connections to their particular kapa. So, they're performing with their whanau. So, it's not looked upon as a huge commitment, their travel and time factor. But there's several factors that require a lot of commitment in te ao kapa. Oh, I wish there...

     

    There's no easy way to say this, but we make huge sacrifices, financial sacrifices as well, to perform 30 minutes on stage and ka aroha. Ka aroha to some of us, that can't afford their commitment and afford to make those commitments, it is hard. It's tough.

    He nui ngā whenu rerekē o ngā mahi whakataetae i te ao haka. Ko te taha pūtea tētahi. He nui tērā. He kaitā.

     

    Koirā tētahi o ngā taupā i kore ai ā tātou tamariki e uru mai ki ngā mahi haka, ahakoa ō rātou wawata kia tū ki ō rātou tino kapa. Nā te taha pūtea i pērā ai. Arā hoki te taha whānau. Ko te whānau ka noho hei papa.

     

     

    Ko ngā kaitiaki tamariki, ngā māmā me ngā pāpā e tiaki ana i ā tātou tamariki i a māmā rāua ko pāpā ka whati atu ki ngā mahi haka. He nui aua hoatutanga rā. Arā hoki te taha ki te wā.

     

     

    He takohanga ā-wā hoki, engari mēnā koe ka ū ki tētahi taonga puipuiaki ki a tātou o ngāi Māori, ka taurite te hua me te putanga ki aua takohanga rā. Me pērā koe e tū tahi ai koe ki ō iho pūmanawa. Koirā te nui o te manawa tītī o ia kaihaka.

     

     

     

    Tērā ētahi e hāereere ana mō te 10 hāora kia tae ai ki te kapa haka, he mea nui tērā, heoi anō, i pērā ai rātou he whakapono nō rātou ki te kaupapa o te kapa e tū ana rātou.

     

     

    He hononga ā-iwi, ā-hapū rānei pea ō rātou ki taua kapa. Nā reira e tū tahi ana ki ō rātou whānau, nā, e kore e kīia he takohanga te hāereere me te taha ki te wā. Engari he huhua ngā āhuatanga i te ao kapa he takohanga nui.

     

    Kia kī noa iho ahau, he nui ngā raupanga, raupanga ā-pūtea anō hoki, kia tū mō te 30 mīniti ki te papa tūwaewae, ka aroha. Ka aroha ētahi o tātou, kāore nei i taea e rātou tērā takohanga, me te aha, he uaua. He taumaha.

    So, we got commitment, on stage, competition. What about commitment, you’re a marae man, you’re a hunter, gatherer, you provide for your whānau and your hapū, what about the commitment in ngahau on the marae? What does that look like? Because that's also important.

    Nā reira ka ū tātou ki te papa tūwaewae, ki ngā mahi whakataetae. Ka pēhea hoki mēnā koe he tangata marae, he kaiwhakangau, te kaiwhāngai i tō whānau me tō hapū, ka pēhea te ū ki ngā mahi ngahau i te marae? He mea nui hoki tērā.

    Oh, yeah, it's extremely important. And in fact, he momo rongoā. When you are back on the marae with your whānau and your hapū and when you're doing mahi for your hapū as well, and the ngahau, in order to keep the pakiwaitara, in order to keep the histories, the pepeha and the whakapapa alive, we do so through waiata, because waiata is the easiest medium in which to teach our pakeke, our kaumātua, and also, of course our rangatahi. They sworn into waiata.

     

    And so ngahau on the marae is actually a lot easier to commit to, because you're doing it for your own people. And the stories are yours too. The stories are yours, the kōrero that you're learning about, singing about, it belongs to you.

     

    And Tribes and sub-tribes enjoy singing those songs because it belongs to them. So, much easier. There's not as much commitment because you work your marae and every hui ora, hui mate.

     

    So, it organically flows those waiata that ngahau, organically flows when you're in the kāuta with your nannies, your aunties, and you hear them talking about the kōrero, and then they sing waiata over the dishes. And that's where you pick up all of those beautiful ancient waiata o te kāinga is in those places and peeling spuds and shelling muscles.

     

    And so, ngahau on the marae just happens organically and it's absolutely beautiful through the kōrero, kaikōrero on the marae, through the kaikaranga even, it's a beautiful kaikaranga there. And they kia whakangahautia ō rātou karanga. Te ātaahua rawa atu hoki.

    E mea ana koe. Waihoki, he momo rongoā tērā. Nōu i te marae me tō whānau, tō hapū, te mahi mā tō hapū, me te ngahau, ka pērā e ora ai ngā pakiwaitara, ngā hītori, ngā pepeha me te whakapapa. Ka tutuki tērā mā ngā waiata, i te mea ko te waiata te ara māmā katoa hei ako i ngā pakeke, i ngā kaumātua, otirā i ngā rangatahi. Ka ruku atu rātou ki ngā waiata.

     

     

    He māmā ake te ū ki ngā mahi ngahau i te marae, i te mea e whai ana koe i ngā hua ki tō iwi. Nāu hoki ngā kōrero, ngā kōrero e ākona ana e koe, e waiatahia ana e koe, nāu.

     

     

    e rata ana ngā iwi ngā hapū ki ērā atu o ngā waiata nā te mea nā rātou tonu ngā waiata. He māmā ake. Kāore i pērā rawa te nui o te takohanga i te mea kei tō marae koe e mahi ana i ia hui ora, i ia hui mate.

     

    Nā reira ka rere noa aua waiata ngahau nōu i te kāuta me ō kuia, ō kōkā, ka rongo koe i a rātou e kōrero ana, ka waiata rātou i a rātou e mahi maitai ana. Koirā te wāhi e kapo ai koe i ngā waiata tawhito o te kāinga, i a koe e tahitahi rīwai ana, e kota kūtai ana.

     

     

    Nā reira he māori noa iho ngā mahi ngahau i te marae, ā, he ātaahua ngā kōrero, ngā kaikōrero i te marae, ngā kaikaranga hoki, he ātaahua. Ka whakangahautia hoki ā rātou karanga . Te ātaahua hoki.

    That's so cool. So, talking about entertainment and talking about being ambassadors of our own culture and through Aotearoa and also internationally, and you worked for tourism for quite some time and had to go out and do a bit of rangahau of your own hapū and iwi and be able to establish performances to entertain the thousands of people that came from across the world.

     

    What's that commitment like? What is that like for your own performers and for your own looking after your performers, to be able to manaaki manuhiri?

    Ka mutu pea. Nā reira i te wāhi ki te whakangahau me ngā māngai o tō tātou ahurea i Aotearoa, ā, puta noa i te ao, i mahi koe i te ao tāpoi nē, i mate koe ki te rangahau i tōu ake hapū, iwi hoki hei whakatau i te āhua o ngā tū hei whakangahau i te mano tāngata ka tae mai i ngā whenua o te ao.

     

     

    He aha te āhua o taua takohanga? Mō ō kaihaka anō hoki, te manaaki i ō kaihaka, me te manaaki i ō manuhiri?

    Manaaki manuhiri is a behavior that we Māori have had mai rā anō. And it's a behavior, which is actually really quite hard to teach. Anyone who doesn't grasp the gravitas of what manaaki manuhiri, manaaki tangata is. 

     

    But it's a behavior that's been ingrained in Māori mai rā anō and we, I think back to the times where the first... Our people were entertaining visitors to Aotearoa long ago.

     

    And it started there, that's where our ngahau began. So ngahau is nothing new to us. And they were paid pūtea to perform for our visitors, and the visitors loved it.

     

    And so, it's a manaaki tangata, manaaki manuhiri, is something that Māori automatically are born with, but how I was able to, and you're right, I did a lot of rangahau. I've been in tourism for about the last 25 years now.

     

    And my tūranga here in Waitangi, led me back to creating a new bracket, to creating a performance whereby we could share with our manuhiri that came to the Treaty grounds. One thing I really noted with other kapa ngahau around the motu, who were in the same industry, were the many differences of delivery in hakas.

     

    One thing that I wanted to ensure that our visitors got out of, out of watching our performance on stage was, yes, obviously manaaki manuhiri was at the very top of that, but I wanted them to be educated. I wanted them to come in completely oblivious to what our taonga was all about, hakas.

     

    And by the time after the 30-minute performance, they left there with a better understanding on hakas, the types of items that we do, the types of weapons that we use, the materials, the rauemi, excuse me.

     

    And so, for me, it was all about education. It wasn't about. And I'm going to go out on a limb here and just tell it how I'm going to tell it, because I feel that our culture gets bastardized a lot within the tourism industry.

     

    And I've never been one to invite visitors on stage and do the poi and do the haka and poke tongues out, because I felt that was an insult to our culture. And so, for me, at Waitangi, I cut all of that out.

     

    I cut all of that out and made our show an educational show through the commentary, but then obviously the waiata were the kīnaki to the commentary. So, you tell them about what they're about to see, and then you perform exactly what you've just told them to make. So, they can make that connection.

     

    And you talk about the wiri and you talk about the takahia, and you talk about the kākahu, and you talk about the pūkana and the whētero. So, for me, it was all about education.

     

    I think that's the best way that you can manaaki manuhiri when you're showing, showcasing your culture, is through education. And so, we didn't do any of that invitation stuff on stage.

     

    And the commitment to our tauira, to the kaimahi, who were a part of my team, was actually quite easy because they were haka freaks. And they came to me when I first did the interviews and it was like, wait, we can do hakas for a full-time job?

     

    Where can you even do this in Te Tai Tokerau anyway? There was nowhere else in Te Tai Tokerau, where these kids who loved haka, and they ate and drank haka, could actually do it for a full-time job.

     

    They never ever dreamed of this. And so, to be able to teach them was actually quite simple. And for me, it wasn't saying, this is how it's going to be done.

     

    For me, it was about garnishing and garnishing and taking all of their pūkenga and their momo haka their styles ō rātou tāera and then molding them into a style, which we performed at Waitangi.

     

    And so that way, they all had buy-in to the items, to the choreography, to the actions. And that way, it didn't feel like it was just a job to them. It was a passion. Hakas is a passion. Hakas is a passion for anyone who does hakas.

     

     And so it was quite easy to commit to them, because they were committed to the kaupapa. And they were open to learning and they were open to understanding. And the big part of my ngahau world comes from Ngapo and Pimia. Comes from koro and nan.

    Ki a tātou o ngāi Māori, ko te manaaki manuhiri he mahi nō mai mai. Waihoki, he whanonga, he uaua te whakaako atu. Tērā tētahi hunga kāore e tino mārama ki tēnei mea te manaaki manuhiri.

     

     

    He whanonga kua tangata whenua ki a ngāi Māori nō mai rā anō. Ka hoki aku mahara ki ngā wā o mua. I te whakangahau tō tātou iwi i ngā manuhiri ki Aotearoa nō mai mai.

     

    Me te aha, i tīmata i reira. Nā reira ehara te mahi ngahau i te mahi hou. Waihoki, i utua rātou ki te whakangahau i ngā manuhiri, i rawe ki ngā manuhiri.

     

    Nā reira ko te manaaki tangata me te manaaki manuhiri he mahi aunoa nō te whānautanga mai o te Māori. He tika tāu, i nui aku rangahau. Kua 25 tau ahau e mahi ana i te ao tāpoi.

     

     

    Nā taku tūranga i Waitangi nei ahau i ārahi ki te whakarite hōtaka, tū anō hoki hei tuaritanga ki ā mātou manuhiri ki ngā papa o te Tiriti. Ko tētahi mea i tino kitea i ētahi atu kapa ngahau huri i te motu, i taua ahumahi tonu, ko te rerekētanga o ngā mahi haka.

     

     

    I whai ahau kia rangona e ngā manuhiri te manaakitanga, engari i pīrangi hoki ahau kia ako rātou. I pīrangi ahau kia haere kūare mai rātou ki tā tātou taonga, ki te kapa haka.

     

     

     

    Anā, mutu ana te tū 30 mīniti te roa, kua hoki rātou, kua whai māramatanga ki ngā mahi haka, ki ngā momo waiata, ki ngā momo rākau ka whakamahia e mātou, ngā rawa, ngā rauemi. Kia aroha mai.

     

     

    Nā reira, mōku, ko te whāngai mātauranga tāku i whai ai. Māku tēnei kōrero e whiu, ko te nuinga o tō tātou ahurea ka noho pōnahanaha i te ahumahi tāpoi.

     

     

    Nō hea ahau e pōhiri i te manuhiri ki te atamira ki te mahi poi, ki te haka, ki te whētero, i te mea he takahi tērā i tō tātou ahurea. Nā reira nōku i Waitangi, ka whakakorea tērā.

     

     

    I whakakorea tērā, i whakatau kē kia hōtaka mātauranga kē te tū mā roto mai i ngā kōrero me ngā waiata hei tautoko i ngā kōrero. Nā reira ka whakamōhiohia rātou mō tā rātou e kite nei, kātahi ka whakatinanahia ērā whakamōhiotanga atu. Ka kitea ai e rātou te hononga.

     

     

    Ka kōrero koe mō te wiri, me te takahi, me ngā kākahu, waihoki te pūkana me te whētero. Nā reira ko te mātauranga tāku i whai ai.

     

    Koirā te tino tauira o te manaaki manuhiri nōu e whakaatu ana i tō ahurea. Ko te mātauranga. Nā reira kāore mātou i pōhiri i te tangata ki te atamira.

     

    Ka mutu, i māmā noa iho te tō mai i ngā tauira, i ngā kaimahi i whai wāhi mai ki taku tīma. He keka nō rātou ki ngā mahi kapa haka. Ka haere mai rātou ki ahau i te wā o ngā uiuitanga tuatahi, ka tumeke mai, ka taea te kapa haka hei mahi?

     

    Ko hea he wāhi anō e taea ai ēnei mahi i Te Tai Tokerau? Karekau. Kāore he wāhi e taea e ngā tamariki aroha nui ki te haka, te haka hei mahi.

     

     

    He moemoeā tēnei. Nā reira i māmā noa iho te whakaako atu. Kāore ahau i whakatau i ētahi ture.

     

     

    Mōku, i aro kē ahau ki te tō mai i ō rātou pūkenga me ā rātou tāera haka, ka āta pokepokea ki te tāera ka whakaatuhia ki Waitangi.

     

     

    I runga i tērā, i āwhina rātou i te wāhi ki ngā waiata, ki ngā nekehanga, ki ngā mahi ā-ringa. Kātahi ka mōhio rātou ehara tēnei i te mahi noa iho nei. He kaingākau kē. He kaingākau te kapa haka. He pērā anō hoki ki te katoa e mahi kapa haka ana.

     

    Āe. Nā reira i māmā noa iho taku ū atu ki a rātou, nā te mea i ū kē rātou ki te kaupapa. I ngākau tuwhera hoki rātou ki te ako, ki te whai māramatanga. Ko te nuinga o taku ao ngahau i ahu mai i a Ngāpō rāua ko Pīmia, i a Koro rāua ko Nan.

    Let's talk about that. Let's talk about Pounamu. Pounamu performing arts going around the world, Te Waka Huia going around the world. Te Manu Huia. Let's get into that kōrero. What does it take to go and do that rangahau, be creative? What have they taught us to do?

    Kia kōrerohia tērā e tāua. Kia kōrero mō Pounamu, mō tā Pounamu Performing Arts huri haere i te ao, mō tā Te Waka Huia huri i te ao. Te Manu Huia. Kia ruku tāua ki ērā kōrero. Me aha koe e rangahau ai, e auaha ai? He aha tā rāua i whakaako ai?

    It's actually, it's not a big commitment when you're passionate about our taonga. And Pounamu, I joined Pounamu in 1992, and - 20 years ago.

     

    20 years ago, this year. Showing my age. 20 years ago, 1992 Pounamu. And it's quite funny. Funny story actually, because I had always had a passion for Te Waka Huia from the first time I saw them on TV.

     

    And my first encounter was Koro Bub's booming voice in 1986 at Ōtautahi there. And that whaikōrero that he gave and just the presence, was just lovely.

     

    And from there, I've always loved them, but I had a chance encounter with the Wehi whānau in 1991. And there happened to be a couple of guitars around, and boy was a part of that, Richard Wehi and we started jamming and he says, "oh, you should come and join [Pounamu]."

     

    I never heard of Pounamu. I didn't know who Pounamu was. And I say, "Oh, what's Pounamu?" He says, "Oh, we perform at the museum. You know the performance to manuhiri."

     

    So, 1992, I was a gibb stopper. Actually, I was working as a gibb stopper. I was getting 20 bucks an hour. It was pretty good pay back then, but I was a gibb stopper. And we actually, we were just building this apartment block across the road from the museum.

     

    And I thought, oh, geez, I've got a lunch break. They've got a show on. So, it's the first time I actually encountered Pounamu's show. Went over there and watched the show and I was just sold, blown away.

     

    And then I quit my job that day and said to my boss, "I'm going over to work over the museum and perform." Took back my gears and went back over with my paru clothes on, that I had covered in paint and stuff. And I started my job there at Pounamu in 1992.

     

    The commitment sought from the Wehi whānau at the time. And actually right up until now, is absolute excellence. That's what they demand from you. That's what they demand from you.

     

    Excellence in the ngahau world, because when you perform on a ngahau stage, you're still representing, one, our culture. Two, your whānau, hapū, iwi on stage. Three, our taonga. And also, four, the teachings of those who have taught you when you go on stage.

     

    And so, you've got to be mindful that even though it is ngahau, there's still a level of excellence that you need to maintain so that people don't see the monotony of potentially performing the same show, seven days a week, 365 days of the year.

     

    So, the level of preparation from whānau Wehi, was to prepare us to ensure that we hit the stage and we gave it a 100% every time, whether it was ngahau or whakataetae.

     

    And they got the best out of us that way. They had the tools to be able to get the skills and get the level of performance out of each of their kaihaka that grace, their presence, or, you know...

     

     

    Ehara i te takohanga nui mēnā e kaingākau ana koe ki tā tātou taonga. I whai wāhi ahau ki a Pounamu, i te tau 1992, ā e 20 tau ki muri.

     

    Kua 20 tau i te tau nei. E kitea ana taku pakeketanga. E 20 tau ki muri, 1992 Pounamu. He hātakēhi. I nui taku kōingo ki Te Waka Huia nō te kitehanga tuatahi i te pouaka whakaata.

     

     

    Ko taku wheako tuatahi ko te reo pahū o Koro Bub i 1986 ki Ōtautahi rā. Me tana whaikōrero, tana tū, i rawe.

     

    Mai i taua wā, kua ngākaunui atu ahau. I tūpono atu ahau ki te whānau Wehi i 1991. I reira ētahi rakuraku, i reira hoki a Boy, a Richard Wehi. Ka tīmata tā mātou karawhiu i ngā waiata, nā, ka mea mai ia ki ahau, “me uru mai koe ki [Pounamu].”

     

     

    Kāore nei ahau i mōhio ko wai a Pounamu. Ka tāku atu ki a ia, “He aha te Pounamu?” Ko tāna mai, “O, ka tū mātou ki te whare taonga. Ka whakangahau mātou ki ngā manuhiri.”

     

     

    Nā reira i 1992, he kaikahupapa ahau. He 20 tāra i te hāora taku utu. He utu pai tērā i aua rā, engari koirā taku mahi. I te hanga mātou i tētahi wharenoho i tua atu i te whare taonga.

     

     

    Ka whakaaro ahau, hika, kua wātea ahau, kua tina. E whakangahau ana rātou. Nā reira koirā te wā tuatahi i kite ai ahau i te tū a Pounamu. Ka haere ahau ki reira, ka mātaki i te hōtaka, nā, kua kēhi.

     

     

    Ka wehe ahau i taku mahi i taua rangi tonu, ka kī ahau ki taku pāhi, “Kua whakawhiti atu ahau ki te whare taonga, whakangahau ai.” Ka whakahokia aku rawa, ka hoki atu ahau me aku kākahu paru, kua kapi i te peita, i ērā āhuatanga katoa. Ka tīmata taku mahi ki reira, ki Pounamu i 1992.

     

    Ko te takohanga ka whāia e te whānau Wehi, ā, ā mohoa nei, ko te kounga. Koirā te ture.

     

     

    Me kounga i te ao ngahau, i te mea, nōu ka tū ki te atamira ngahau, kei te whakakanohi koe i tō tātou ahurea, ka tahi. Ka rua, ko tō whānau, tō hapū, me tō iwi. Ka toru, ko tā tātou taonga. Whā, ko ngā whakaakoranga a te hunga nā rātou koe i ako ki te tū ki te atamira.

     

    Nā reira me whai whakaaro koe, ahakoa he mahi ngahau, me kounga tonu ngā mahi kia kaua ētahi e kite i te hātahi o te karawhiu i te hōtaka kotahi i ngā rā katoa o te wiki, waihoki o te tau.

     

     

    Nā reira ko te āhua o ngā whakaritenga a te whānau Wehi, ko te whakaū i tā mātou whakapau kaha i ia pikinga ki te atamira, ngahau mai, whakataetae mai.

     

    Koirā i kounga ai ā mātou mahi. I a rāua ngā taputapu ki te tō mai i ngā pūkenga me te pai o te tū a ia kaihaka, te tau o te tū, te āhua o te tū, nē…

    Cool, cool. I want to get... So, yep. We went over to Pounamu. We talked about the commitment over there. Koro was big on encouraging us, well we've done his ngeri, ‘ka titiro’, about learning te reo Māori.

    And you've been learning, you've been on your reo journey for the past few years now. So how do you transfer what you've learnt now?

     

    Mita reo, you've always held onto your mita reo when we perform, koro has always said " mēnā rā koinā tā rātou mita, whakamahia tā rātou mita hei aha tō mita mō tēnā wā. How important is that te reo Māori in performing arts in te ao Haka?

    Rawe, rawe. Nā reira kua kōrero tāua mō Pounamu. Kua kōrero tāua mō te takohanga. I kaha a Koro ki te akiaki i a mātou. Kua waiata mātou i tana ngeri, i a ‘Ka titiro’, e pā ana ki te ako i te reo Māori.

    E ako ana koe, kua ako koe i te reo i roto i ngā tau nei. Nā, ka pēhea te whakawhiti atu i tāu i ako ai?

     

    Mita reo, me mau ki tō mita reo i a koe e tū ana, koirā tā Koro “Mēnā rā koinā tā rātou mita (sic), whakamahia tā rātou mita (sic) hei aha tō mita mō tēnā wā.”  He aha te wāhi ki te reo Māori i ngā mahi o te ao haka?

    It's the integral ingredient. Te reo Māori, Te mita o te reo Māori is the most important ingredient in our culture as it determines, and it defines and identifies who we are as an indigenous pqeople. And so te reo Māori, is a key ingredient for any indigenous population, because it's our identity. 

     

    It identifies who we are, but it also allows us to articulate our histories, our whakapapa, our pepeha, and also to articulate all of those through waiata and without our reo, we have no identity. Hey, we have no taonga, he tino taonga te reo Māori. And you're right, koro has always been big on us maintaining our own mita, which is beautiful.

     

    Although when we sing songs of whakarongo and I'm saying, hakarongo, you can't actually hear it, but I'm actually saying hakarongo. And when we get down to performing in sixes or eights, and you can hear it. And I get, who's doing a hakarongo… oh gees ko ahau tēnā.

     

    But it's beautiful that we've been allowed to express our own mita at a level of. At a kapa, which is... They call it an urban kapa haka group Te Waka Huia. It's an urban kapa haka group.

     

    Yeah. Which is a term that I really find offensive, because Te Waka Huia has been the lifeline for the hundreds and hundreds of performers that have gone through Te Waka Huia's ranks.

     

    And what I mean by a lifeline, is that there are many of us that never had identity prior to going through Te Waka Huia and delving into te reo Māori for the first time. Delving in hakas for the first time and finding out who we are. And so, Te Waka Huia is exactly that, He Waka Huia.

     

    And I just appreciate the learnings that I've taken from koro and nan and from the Wehi whānau, to be able to be confident in my te reo Māori, the whare kōrero, a place where we can grow our reo.

    Koirā te āhuatanga matua, ko te reo Māori. Ko te mita o te reo te āhuatanga matua i tō tātou ahurea i te mea koia te mea e tohu ana i a tātou hei tangata taketake. Nā reira ko te reo Māori tētahi o ngā āhuatanga matua o te hangapori taketake, i te mea, koirā te tuakiritanga.

     

     

    He tohu tērā i a tātou, e kōrero ai tātou i ō tātou hītori, i ō tātou whakapapa, pepeha, me te whakaputa i ērā mā ngā waiata. Ki te kore he reo, kua kore he tuakiritanga. Kāore he taonga, nē, he tino taonga te reo Māori. He tika tāu, i tino ū a Koro kia mau tātou ki ō tātou mita, he ātaahua tērā.

     

     

    I a mātou e waiata ana i a whakarongo, ko ahau kei te kī, hakarongo, kāore pea e rangona engari kei te kī ahau hakarongo. Ka tū takiono, takiwaru rānei mātou, kātahi ka rangona. Ka whiua mai, ko wai tērā e hakarongo ana… hika mā, ko ahau tēnā.

     

    Engari he rawe tō mātou whakaaetia kia whakaputa i tō mātou mita i te kapa haka nei, e kīia nei a Te Waka Huia he kapa haka tāone tērā.

     

    Āe. Ki ahau nei, he takahitanga tērā, i te mea he huhua ngā kaihaka kua whai oranga i Te Waka Huia.

     

    Koia, he oranga, i te mea kāore ō mātou tuakiritanga i mua i a Te Waka Huia me te ruku tuatahi atu ki te reo Māori. I ruku atu mātou ki ngā mahi haka, ka mōhio ai ko wai mātou. Nā reira koia ko Te Waka Huia, he waka huia.

     

    E mānawatia ana ngā akoranga nā Koro rāua ko Nān, waihoki nā te whānau Wehi, i māia ai ahau i te reo Māori, i te whare kōrero, he wāhi e whanake ai ō tātou reo.

    What's te whare kōrero?

    He aha te whare kōrero?

    Te whare kōrero is, it's a kaupapa which was institutionalized in Te Waka Huia, some years ago where a couple of our mātanga reo got together and created a forum in which we could speak te reo Māori and grow te reo within the ranks of Te Waka Huia. 

     

    Despite the quality of your reo, the main thing is that you’re speaking. Mistakes and all. That is the place for mistakes.

     

    And it was a culturally safe space for those of us who were just delving into our reo journey, to be able to speak, to be able to karakia, to be able to mihi, to be able to tuku kauhau. And it was a safe space to make mistakes in order to grow our reo. And that's what te whare kōrero is.

     

    And I take a lot of solace out of that whare kōrero, that kaupapa that was born out of Te Waka Huia, because it gave those of us who were too afraid to kōrero i te reo in case we hapa, but it was always prominent from all of our mātanga reo i Te Waka Huia, mā te hapa e ako.

    He kaupapa i tīmata ai i Te Waka Huia, i ētahi tau ki muri, i hui ai ētahi o ngā mātanga reo, ka whakatū ai i tētahi kaupapa e kōrero Māori ai tātou, e whanake ai hoki te reo i roto o Te Waka Huia.

     

     

    Ahakoa iti, ahakoa nui, te kounga o tō reo. Ko te mea nui kia kōrero. Ahakoa hapa, pai ana. Koirā te wāhi mō te hapa.

     

    He wāhi haumaru tērā mō mātou te hunga kātahi anō ka ruku atu ki te reo Māori, i āhei ai mātou te kōrero, te karakia, te mihi, te tuku kauhau hoki. He wāhi haumaru ki te hapa e whanake ai te reo. Koirā te whare kōrero.

     

    Āe. I ora ahau i te whare kōrero, te kaupapa i hua ake i Te Waka Huia. I te mea i whai wāhi mātou ki te reo, mātou te hunga āmaimai ki te kōrero i te reo, kei hapa. Engari ko te kōrero matua a ō mātou mātanga reo i Te Waka Huia, ko “Mā te hapa e ako.”

    Yeah. So would te ao haka be anything without te reo Māori?

    Āe. Kua tū tonu te ao haka i te korenga o te reo Māori?

    Absolutely not.

    Tino kore nei.

    Why?

    He aha ai?

    Absolutely not. Well, we'll be getting on there, singing nothing. Hey, we'll be getting on stage going. You need a reo. You need the reo to convey your messages, to convey your pānui to convey your kaupapa

    Tino kore nei. Māna, e ahu pērā ana tātou ināianei. Me mātua whai wāhi te reo hei hari i ō kupu, i tō panui, i tō kaupapa.

    But do you have to be mātanga reo to do kapa haka?

    Engari me mātanga reo rawa e mahi kapa haka ai?

    You don't have to be mātanga reo to do haka. You don't even have to be Māori to do haka. Our tupuna were big on embracing and inclusivity. Hence the reason we tried to formulate a treaty with our treaty partners, so that we could work in tandem together. 

     

    For us, understanding te ao Pākehā lens through an ao Pākehā lens, but also from the ao Pākehā understanding through the ao Māori lens. And so, no, you do not need to be mātanga reo to do kapa haka. You do not need to be Māori to do hakas. You just need to have an open heart.

     

    You just need to have an open mind. You just need to be open to all of the teachings and the learnings that you're going to receive. And in turn, what you do with that mātauranga that you learn, that you get, is then pass it on.

    Ehara i te mea me mātanga reo. Ehara hoki i te mea me Māori. He mea nui ki ō tātou tīpuna te whakaaro nui me te whai wāhitanga. Koirā i whai ai i ngā hoa tiriti, e pai ai te mahi tahi.

     

     

    Mō mātou, me mārama ki te ao Pākehā mā te tirohanga ao Pākeha, engari me mārama hoki te ao Pākeha mā te tirohanga Māori. Nā reira ehara i te mea me mātanga reo e mahi kapa haka ai. Ehara i te mea me Māori. Engari me ngākau tuwhera.

     

     

    Heoi anō tāu, me ngākau tuwhera. Me tuwhera ki te ako i ngā homaitanga. Me aha rā aua mātauranga? Me tuku iho.

    So, we got mita reo. What about te tū a Te Tai Tokerau, te mita o te haka. He aha tēnā i konei? What do you know about te tū a Te Tai Tokerau and how do you use that in your performance?

    Kia tahuri ki te mita reo. Ka pēhea a konei, a Te Tai Tokerau, te mita o te haka. He aha tēnā i konei? He aha tāu e mōhio nei mō te tū a Te Tai Tokerau, ā, he aha te wāhi ki tērā i ō tū?

    Each region, each sub-tribe, and each kapa will have their own distinct style. I recall one of the regional competitions here in the North, four years ago.

     

    One of the newer competing kapa entered, they were from Waima in Hokianga, and they were called Ngā Uri o Tūteauru. They took the stage and the women did the cannibal style haka.

     

     

    It was beautiful because it was different than any other kapa who competed. The North is good for singing, and that sort of thing. Then Tūteauru came on with their style.

     

     

    How beautiful. But after the event ended, the tutor of Ngā Uri o Tūteauru called me and said that they had received a comment from one of the judges around, that’s not how our women haka in Ngāpuhi.

     

    I’m still angry for that tutor. That’s them. That’s their style of haka, that’s how they perform, I said to him, ‘Goh’, so I think we’ve still got a long way to go in terms of understanding the different styles of haka throughout the North.

     

    Just like that stamping of the foot, the famous stamp of the North, referred to as the pipi swivel. I don’t really know where that came from but one thing I’ve heard is that it came from one of the kuia who went to gather pipi.

     

    It looks like this. back from having to bend over and find the pipi so they just go in there, ahh make sense, but that style is specific to the groups of Whangārei.

     

    You see how Muriwhenua performs, they have another style of stamping, so too do Ngā Uri a Tūteauru, Ngā Mau Mātui o Ngāpuhi, that’s another style again. Each kapa has a distinct style that directly relates to their sub-tribe, the people they are representing.

    Mā ia rohe, mā ia hapū, mā ia kapa o rātou ake tū, ō rātou ake momo. Ka hoki āku mahara i tētahi o ngā whakataetae ā-rohe i Te Tai Tokerau nei, e whā ngā tau kua pāhure ake. 

     

    Ka tū tētahi kapa hōu whakataetae nō roto o Waima, nō roto o te Hokianga rā, ko Ngā uri o Tūteauru te ingoa o te kapa. Kātahi ka whakaeke rātou i runga i te papa tūwaewae kātahi ngā wāhine kaha ana i te haka pēnei nā te hiakai tangata.

     

    Te ataahua rawa ō rātou ake tū he mea rerekē ki ētahi atu o ngā kapa i tū i te whakataetae. Nā te mea, kaha ana te Tai Tokerau ki te waiata, ērā atu o ngā āhuatanga. Ka whakaeke mai a Tūteauru me o rātou tāera.

     

    Te ātaahua rawa atu. Engari i te mutunga iho o te kaupapa, kua waea mai te kaituta, te pouako o ngā uri o Tūteauru. Ka mea mai. Kua whiwhi ia ētahi kōrero, kahore tērā taera I te taera o ngā wāhine no Ngapuhi.

     

    And kei te riri tonu taua pouako. Ko tērā tō rātou momo, momo haka, momo tū, tāku i mea atu ki a ia, ‘auē’, nō reira, I think we've still got a long way to go in terms of understanding the different styles of haka throughout the Tai Tokerau.

     

    Pērā i te āhuatanga o tērā takahia e mohiotia ana, takahia rongonui o Te Tai Tokerau [e mea ana]. Ko tērā takahia pipi. Kāre au i te tino mōhio i ahu mai taua momo i hea, erangi tētahi kōrero ahau i rongohia, i hāngai tērā atu o ngā nekehanga ki tērā atu ō ngā kuia haere ki te ruku pipi.

     

    Pēnei te āhua. He tiaki noa iho i te tuarā kia kaua e mate ki te tūpou ki te kimi pipi. Heoi anō tā rātou, he pēnei, ā, e mārama ana. Engari ko taua momo, kia hāngai pū ki ngā kapa o Whangārei.

     

    Kite ana koe i te tū o Muriwhenua, he rerekē anō o rātou takahi ngā uri a Tūteauru, ngā Manu Mātui o Ngāpuhi, he rerekē anō rā o rāua tāera, mā ia kapa ō rātou ake tū e pā kia hāngai pū ana ki ō rātou hapū. I a rātou e whakakanohitia ana.

    Yeah. So how do we revitalize all of those kōrero for our tamariki? Because there's a lot of feedback from our tamariki saying it's really, really hard to find that, or they don't know how to go and ask for it and over to our kaumātua. So why is it so hard and how do we revitalize it?

    Āe. He aha te huarahi hei whakarauora i ērā kōrero katoa mā ā tātou tamariki? I te mea he nui ngā kōrero whakahoki a ngā tamariki e mea ana he uaua te kimi i aua kōrero, he uaua te haere ki ngā kaumātua. He aha i uaua ai, ā, me aha e whakarauora ai?

    Oh, in the past three years or so, some of us, myself and Moana-aroha Henry, started an initiative called Ara Ngāpuhi. Its purpose was to combine all of the haka styles of home, of the sacred house of Ngāpuhi, so that that house may stand staunch.

     

    We would discuss and share the stories, and we would meet with some of the tutors of Muriwhenua, Hātea, Wairenga Te Kaha, we’d all gather together with the tutors to go over the stories. What is our style here, first and foremost.

     

    Secondly, we also sought to correct the Ara Ngāpuhi haka, it’s all different, wherever you go in the North, you’ll hear ‘Ara Ngāpuhi e, whakatangatanga ki runga’. The actions are all different, the sound, according to where you are in the sacred house of Ngāpuhi. And what we wanted to do was to create a single, correct way of doing it.

     

    So just, yeah. Setting up a wānanga for our kids. And we did that through ara Ngāpuhi kaupapa over three years ago and we were set to continue it on ia tau where we hold four wānanga throughout the year.

     

    And it was to target our tamariki at colleges. We had three wānanga in our first year, and we got the tutors of... We got tutors, we got kaiako, who had learnt those Haka Ngāpuhi and the songs like Te Puawai o Ngāpuhi, i a Toro mai ō ringa, ki te whakaako i a mātou ki ngā mahi ā-ringa tika i te mea he mea whāngai tērā hunga e ngā kaitito tonu. Nā reira kia tika mātou katoa, kia kotahi te karawhiunga o taua haka. Heoi, nā te KOWHEORI i kore ai e taea i ngā tau e rua i whai ake.

     

    And we were supposed to run another once again this year, but again, COVID OMICRON. So that was one way we felt moving forward because at the secondary school competitions, when we see our kura getting up and doing their haka tautoko to their kapa that have just performed.

     

    And that they're all different. Same haka, different actions, different nekehanga, different oro, different rangi, so we needed to whakakotahi ai and out of that, was born Ara Ngāpuhi that kaupapa. And it was a beautiful kaupapa, it was a lovely kaupapa.

     

    And we need to continue on with that because we purposely wanted to target our rangatahi our mokopuna. And so that they felt safe. And whenever we went anywhere as an iwi, we were all on the same page, be able to perform the same actions, the same oro, the same rangi.

    Oh, i ngā tau toru pea ko pahure ka whakatū i ētahi o mātou ko ahau, ko Moana-aroha Henry, tētahi kaupapa e kī ana ko Ara Ngāpuhi. Ko te kiko, ko te ngako o taua kaupapa kia whakakotahi ai i ngā momo haka o te kāinga, o te whare tapu o Ngāpuhi, kia tū tika ai te whare tapu o Ngāpuhi.

     

    Kia wānangatia e mātou, ka tuku i ngā kōrero, ka hui tahi ai me ētahi o ngā pouako o ngā kapa o Muriwhenua, Hātea mā, a Wairenga Te Kaha, ka hui katoa mātou i ngā kaiako ki te whiriwhiri i ngā kōrero. He aha tō mātou momo o te kāinga, ka tahi.

     

    Ka rua, me whakatika i ngā haka, ngā puha o Ngāpuhi, he rerekē, hakoa haere koe ki hea i Te Tai Tokerau ka mahia te haka, ‘aha Ngāpuhi e, whakatangatanga ki runga’. He rerekē ngā mahi ā-ringa, he rerekē te oro, kei ia tōpito o te whare tapu o Ngāpuhi. Ko tāku, tō mātou nei hiahia, kia whakakotahi ai, kia whakatikaina ai, kia kōtahi ai i ērā atu o ngā momo.

     

    Nā reira āe. He whakatū wānanga mō ngā tamariki, ko Ara Ngāpuhi te kaupapa e toru tau ki muri, ā, i whai mātou kia whakatūhia i ia tau, kia whā ngā wānanga i te tau.

     

     

    I aro mātou ki ngā tamariki i ngā kura tuarua. E toru ā mātou wānanga i te tau tuatahi. I toroa e mātou ētahi kaiako i ako nei i ngā haka a Ngāpuhi me ngā waiata pēnei i a Te Puāwai o Ngāpuhi, Toro mai ō ringa, to come in and teach us the correct actions that they had been passed on from the kaitito o aua waiata. And so, to collectively correct, and unite our haka so that we're all doing it. But unfortunately, COVID stifled that over the next two years.

     

     

    Tōna tikanga ka whakaterea anō i tēnei tau, engari ka pā mai ko KOWHEORI OMICRON. Nā reira koirā tētahi o ngā kokenga i te mea nō mātou i ngā whakataetae kura tuarua, ka kite ana mātou i ngā kura e tū ana ki te tautoko i ngā kapa kātahi anō ka tū,

     

    he rerekē katoa. Kotahi te haka, he rerekē ngā mahi ā-ringa, ngā nekehanga, te oro, te rangi, nā, i pīrangi mātou ki te whakakotahi. Anā, ka hua ake i tēnā ko te kaupapa o Ara Ngāpuhi. He kaupapa ātaahua tērā, ka mutu pea.

     

    Ka mutu, me tū tonu tērā i te mea i te āta aro mātou ki ngā rangatahi me ngā mokopuna, e haumaru ai rātou. Nā, i a mātou ka haere ki hea, ki hea, ā-iwi nei, ka kotahi mātou, ngā mahi ā-ringa, te oro, te rangi.

    Wow. That's a pretty cool kaupapa aye.

    Meinga, meinga. He kaupapa rawe tērā nē.

    It's huge. Oh, it’s got a Facebook page too. You can go to it. Go and have a look at it. And even for us that had been doing those haka for so long, when we got the old people in to teach us the correct way, we found we were doing it wrong too. And some of the kupu were hē. Yeah. So it corrected us as well. So it wasn't only for our rangatahi, we were schooled as well.

    He kaitā. He whārangi Pukamata hoki tāna. Tirohia. Mō mātou hoki i te karawhiu i aua haka mō te wā roa, nō mātou ka tō mai i ngā kaumātua ki te whakaako i ngā āhuatanga tika, ka taka te kapa, i hē tā mātou i mahi ai. I hē hoki ētahi o ngā kupu. Āe. Nā reira ko mātou hoki i whakatikaina. Ehara i te mea ko ā mātou rangatahi anake, engari ko mātou hoki.

    Yeah. That's awesome. That's such a cool kaupapa. Mori, you’re a well-respected guitarist. Well respected guitarist. What does it take to prepare your guitars? Look after them, make sure you've got the right strum and not making us jump around as fast as sometimes you make us go? Talk about being a guitarist.

    Āe. He rawe tērā. Kātahi te kaupapa pai. E Mori, he kairakuraku kauanuanu nui koe. He aha ngā mahi hei whakarite i ō rakuraku? Te tiakitanga, te tika o te rakuraku, te tere o te karawhiu. Kōrero mai mō ngā mahi a te kairakuraku.

    It's a hard job. Being a guitarist is a hard job. You're the heartbeat of the group. So there's a lot riding on the guitarists. That's why I mihi to every single guitarist, because it's not a easy job. One note you get wrong, the whole group's off. One tempo you get wrong, the whole group has to go with you. 

     

    And so, there's a lot of pressure on you to be able to deliver the right tempo, the right styles, the right notes, the right chords. So, it's a hard job and it's a thankless job. And the level of commitment that I take, and I take guitaring very, very seriously.

    He mahi uaua. He mahi uaua tā te kairakuraku. Ko koe te manawataki o te kapa. He mahi nui tāna. Koinei ahau e mihi nei ki ngā kairakuraku katoa, i te mea ehara i te mahi māmā. Ki te hē i a koe tētahi rangi, kua riro te kapa katoa. Ki te hē i a koe te tere, me whai te kapa i a koe.

     

     

    He taumaha nē, i te wāhi ki te tika o te tere, te tika o ngā tāera, te tika o ngā rangi, o ngā tangiata. He mahi nui, ā, he mahi mihikore. Ka mutu, he takohanga nui ki ahau te mahi rakuraku.

    Who were some of your teachers?

    Ko wai mā ētahi o ō kaiako?

    Oh, look really, there were two teachers that really molded who I am. My first teacher was a lady named Sue Ashford, kei te mate i āianei. Sue Ashford was a guitarist in my mom and dad's church.  

     

    Yeah. Used to go to church. And she was a guitarist. And that's where I actually first learnt to play the guitar, was at church. And from there, I grew a love for the guitar. It was then, I just continued playing throughout the years.

     

    And of course, through the kapa ngahau, but it wasn't until I met with Richard Wehi, Boy Wehi in 1991, and we had our first jam together. That really started to grow and intensify the level of love I had for the guitar in hakas. And I don't play the guitar for anything else, only hakas and a few parties, and that's where my love for the guitaring intensified.

     

    And of course, I saw the level of commitment through the Wehi boys, the Wehi brothers and the commitment that they dedicated to their craft, to become the best guitarists in kapa haka at the time. And so, I had an exemplar, I had a role model to be able to model what I wanted to be like and the aspirations I had to one day guitar for Te Waka Huia.

     

    And so, I grew with him. So, Boy Wehi was my biggest influence in haka's guitaring, it was Boy, no one else. And I learnt so much from him at Pounamu, I learnt so much from him throughout the years. And then when he started coming towards the end of his tenure on stage, he started to pass the mantle over to me.

     

    And the level and dedication of care that he took to his craft, was just second to none. We'd be the last ones up at night, making sure our guitars were set for the next morning, making sure that we've got all of the right tools to be able to perform our duty to the very best of our abilities,

     

    to make sure that they can get through 10 top drops in a weekend, through all of the copious amounts of sixes and sevens and groups of eights, and it's a thankless job on the hands because we have to play through every group, and we don't get our rest.

     

    So, the commitment is huge. And I'm quite anal about anybody touching my guitars when we're in preparation for haka. There's nothing worse than you getting all your guitars all nicely lined up at the back, set up, ready to go, tuned and you know where everything is,

     

    and then you come back, and you see one of your guitars sitting up in the corner there with a string missing, and sitting over there because they've just picked them up to play them, just to play them. And then just leave them lying around. I dislike that. I dislike that a lot.

    E rua ngā kaiako nā rāua ahau i āta whakairoiro. Ko taku kaiako tuatahi ko Sue Ashford, kei te mate i āianei. He kairakuraku a Sue Ashford nō te whare karakia o ōku mātua.

     

     

    Āe. Nō te whare karakia. He kairakuraku ia. Koirā te wāhi i ako tuatahi ai ahau ki te whakatangi i te rakuraku, ko te whare karakia. I reira, ka kaingākau ahau ki te rakuraku. Kātahi ka whai tonu ahau i taua ara.

     

    Nā ngā mahi kapa ngahau anō hoki, engari nā taku noho tahi ki a Richard Wehi, ki a Boy Wehi i 1991, i tā māua whakatangi tahi, i tino nui ai taku aroha ki te rakuraku i ngā mahi haka. Kāore ahau e whakatangi rakuraku mō kaupapa kē atu, ko ngā mahi haka anake me ētahi pāti, koirā i kaha ai taku aroha ki te whakatangi rakuraku.

     

    I kite hoki ahau i te tino ū a ngā tama Wehi ki taua momo mahi, kia kīia ko rāua ngā tino kairakuraku i te ao haka i taua wā. Nā reira i whai tauira ahau, i whai iho pūmanawa ahau i whakatauira mai i tāku i whai ai me aku wawata hoki kia tū ai hei kairakuraku mā Te Waka Huia.

     

     

    Nā reira i pakeke tahi māua. Ko Boy Wehi taku tino kaiwhakaawe i ngā mahi rakuraku ā-haka nei. Ko Boy, anake. He nui āku i ako ai i a ia, i Pounamu i roto i ngā tau. Ka heke haere ia i te atamira, ka tukuna mai ki ahau tōna tūranga.

     

     

    Me te nui o tāna tiaki i tāna mahi, kāore i tua atu i a ia. Ko māua ngā mea i oho tonu i ngā pō, e whakarite ana i ā māua rakuraku mō te ata whai muri mai, te whakatika hoki i ngā taputapu tika e tutuki pai ai i a māua ā māua mahi,

     

    e tutuki ai hoki ngā karawhiunga 10 i te mutunga wiki kotahi, ngā takionotanga, takiwhitutanga, takiwarutanga. He mahi mihikore i te wāhi ki ngā ringaringa i te mea ko māua ngā mea me karawhiu tonu i ia rōpū, kāore e whai wā ki te whakatā.

     

    Nā reira he takohanga nui. Kāore au e paku pai kia pā mai ētahi ki aku rakuraku i a mātou e whakarite ana mō ngā mahi haka. Ka puku te rae nōku ka āta whakatika i aku rakuraku, kua rite, kua tika te tangi, e mōhio ana koe kei hea ngā mea katoa,

     

    nā, ka hoki koe, ka kite i tō rakuraku i te kokonga rā, me te aha, kua ngaro tētahi aho, i te mea kua tīkina e tētahi kia tākaro noatia. Ka waiho noatia ai ki hea rā. Kāore au e paku pai ki tērā.

    Why?

    He aha ai?

    Well, because that's my tool of the trade, and it's like the kapa using patu or taiaha, and they look after them and they respect them. You don't poke the arero of the taiaha into the ground. You don't step over the weaponry or the patu. My guitars need to be treated like a taonga like they are taiaha. 

     

    Like they are patu. Like they are poi. You treat them the same way you would treat any of our other taonga because again, the guitar, even though it's a Spanish creation, or a non-Māori creation that has fused its flavor into our ao Māori, it's still an integral taonga for hakas.

     

    And we're up late at night, the night before a competition, changing strings, washing them down, waxing the guitars, cleaning them so that they have a vibrant, clean, tidy sound for when we go on stage, we’re constantly tweaking the tuning, and looking after them.

     

    And hence the reason why I really dislike people touching my tool, my taonga of my trade, because if my taonga the guitar, isn't up to the level of expectation to ensure that the other 39 performers can hear it, can feel it, then my job has not been done. And the only way that can happen is the care and attention that I take with looking after our guitars.

    Ko taku taonga tērā, he ōrite ki tā te kapa whakamahi i te patu, i te taiaha rānei, ka āta tiakina ērā, ka whakaute nuitia anō hoki. E kore koe e titi i te arero o te taiaha ki te papa. E kore koe e takahi i ngā rākau, i te patu rānei. Me tiaki aku rakuraku ānō nei he taiaha, he taonga.

     

     

    Me he patu. Me he poi. Me tiaki pēnei i tō tiaki i ētahi atu taonga, i te mea, ahakoa he hanganga Pāniora, Māori-kore rānei, kua titia ki tō tātou ao Māori, waihoki, he wāhanga waiwai i ngā mahi haka.

     

    E oho ana māua pau te pō, i mua i tētahi whakataetae, e panoni ana i ngā aho, e horoi ana i ngā rakuraku, e wākihi ana, e whakapai ana kia reka ai te tangi i te atamira. He rite tonu hoki tā māua āta whakatika i te tangi, me te tiaki anō hoki.

     

    Koirā te take i kore ai ahau e pai kia pāngia taku taonga e ētahi atu. Ki te kore taku taonga, taku rakuraku nei, e rangona e ngā kaihaka e 39, kāore i tutuki i ahau taku mahi. Mā te nui o taku tiaki atu, me taku manaaki i ngā rakuraku e tutuki ai.

    What's your best jam? What's been your best jam ever? Jamming with who, jamming what, competition, ngahau, what's been the most exciting experience for you playing the guitar?

    He aha tō tino tū? I tū tahi koe ki a wai, he aha te karawhiu, he whakataetae rānei, he mahi ngahau rānei, he aha tō wheako pai katoa o te whakatangi rakuraku?

    Oh, I think my first stand with... Actually, there's many, to be honest with you, but my first exciting jam, would've been the first time I took a Matatini stage with my role model, with my mentor, my mentor of 20 odd years now. And taking the stage with him and we jam the first time on a Matatini stage. Yeah. That was pretty special for me.

    Kia pono te kōrero, he huhua. Engari ko taku tū hīkaka katoa, ko taku tū tuatahi ki Te Matatini ki taku iho pūmanawa, ki taku pou i ngā tau 20 nei. Āe, ko te tū tahi ki a ia ki Te Matatini. Āe. I titia tērā ki te manawa.

    When was that? Which one?

    Inahea rā? I tēhea?

    That was at Te Papaioea. So that was in 2007 at Te Papaioea. And to make the stand and also to be given the role of manukura as well. 

    Nō Te Papaioea tērā. Ko te tau 2007 ki Te Papaioea. I tū ahau, engari i tū hoki hei manukura.

    yes

    āe

    Hey, was huge for me.

    Hey, i nui tērā ki ahau.

    Leading, aye? The Haka.

    Te tātaki, nē? I te haka.

    And it was an honor. It was an honor. So-

    He hōnore nui. He hōnore tērā. Nā reira – 

    What was that like then Mori? Let's talk about that. What was it like playing the guitar and then jumping off and leading the haka? Oh, and leading the team?

    I pēhea tērā, e Mori? Kia kōrerohia tērā. I pēhea te whakatangi i te rakuraku, kātahi ka heke, ka tātaki ai i te haka? Me te tātaki hoki i te kapa?

    It was something huge for me. It was an honor. It was certainly an honor, because I think back to all of the other manukura tāne who have held their mantel and the legacy that they've left. And the growth in that space in which they were able to mentor the next up and coming manukura. 

     

    I still had Chris Henare there at the time and we still had koro around to be able to mentor me in that role. So, it was an honor, let alone playing the guitar on his own, is an honor, and very important role, but then to have to focus on leading the haka and other aspects of the performance.

     

    Geez, that was huge for me. It was huge honor. It was huge honor. It was scary at first, but then, with the support of Chris and the support of koro there, it made my job a lot easier knowing that I had their support, and I had their faith in me to be able to pull it off.

    He nui tērā ki ahau. He hōnore nui. I te mea, ka whakaaro ahau ki ērā atu manukura tāne me ā rātou i waiho ake ai. Waihoki, tā rātou akoako i ngā manukura hou.

     

     

     

    I reira tonu a Chris Henare i taua wā, me Koro hoki, nā rāua ahau i āwhina i taua tūranga. Nā reira he hōnore, waihoki, tana whakatangi i te rakuraku i tōna kotahi. He hōnore, he tūranga hirahira, engari me aro tonu ki te tātaki i te haka me ētahi atu āhuatanga o te tū.

     

     

    Hika, he nui tērā. He hōnore nui. I hopo ahau i taku tīmatanga, engari nā te tautoko me te whakapono mai a Chris rāua ko Koro i ngāwari ake ai.

    Yeah. What makes a good leader to get that sound, grunt, Te Tai Tokerau have, they do the haka here, that's nice and slow, go with the action, stamp in certain way, what do we need to do to be able to project that voice so that all of our haka men can feel it, feel that voice?

    Āe. Me aha e kīia ai he kaitātaki pai, te tangi, te horu a Te Tai Tokerau, te momo haka, he pōturi, he hāngai ki ngā mahi ā-ringa, te momo takahi hoki. Me aha tātou e rere ai te reo, e rangona ai e ngā kaihaka tāne?

    One piece of kōrero that koro Bub said to me when I was learning. I was only learning the. I had never led a kapa in my life. And I never. And I actually don't even know how I got that role.

     

     But anyway, one piece of kōrero that koro said to me was he said, “When you’re leading, be wary of the growl in your voice.” And what that meant was, when you lead, be wary of the growl in your voice, because people won't be able to hear. Now koro was big on clarity of words.

     

    He was big on clarity and pronunciation, enunciation of the words. His main take with the manukura was to ensure that the message was out there loud and clear. And so, one day he told me, I said to him, "koro, how can I project my voice a lot better and get louder?"

     

    And he says, "Well, there's a couple of smart things you can do. One of them is not to lead when your haka group are making all of these sounds." And that's why you see when we do the torona tītaha it's like, but there's none of this blah blah]. When the manukura is leading, because you can't hear the manukura and it overpower...

     

    You got 20 other men there doing that. And the manukura is trying to lead. So, it's just all about. And so, he said, “make sure that when your team haka's, that they're not going overboard, when it's your time to lead. aye?” One. The other thing is he said, "Go home, get a tape recorder."

     

    He says, "Go out to a rugby field or wherever on a paddock." He said, "Just put your recorder there and then just walk away from it and then lead the haka. Record yourself, and then come back, play it back. And if you can hear yourself, go back a little bit further."

     

    Yep. So, I did that. I went to a rugby field and put it on halfway. And then I walked back to the 22, getting the strange looks from all the walkers around the rugby field and went back. Oh yeah. Could hear it nice. Went back to the gold post, fainting almost fainting away, but then go back and then I could hear it faintly.

     

    And he says, “when you can hear it faintly, then you stay at that point and you just continue to lead until you can hear yourself nice and clear and build up, build up and always lead from here, from your puku.” And so, I did that. And then I was able to lead from 75 meters away on a rugby field and hear my voice quite clearly.

     

    Which I thought was pretty good. I went back to koro and I said, "koro, look, thank you for that advice. It's actually really worked to build up my vocal capability and range to reach out a little bit further."

     

    He turns around and he says, "Oh really? You did that? I can't believe you actually did that. I was joking, boy." I thought, "Oh e mara." but that was just one of the. But it helped. It actually helped to grow my voice to be able to project. So that was a beautiful, beautiful memory of that. Yeah.

    Ko tētahi kōrero nā Koro Bub mai ki ahau nōku e ako ana. Kāore anō ahau i tātaki kapa. Kāore ahau i te mōhio he aha ahau i whakawhiwhia ai ki taua tūranga.

     

    Heoi anō, ko tā Koro Bub mai ki ahau, “I a koe e tātaki ana, kia tūpato I te rarā o tō reo”, kei kore e rangona e te tangata. He mea nui ki a Koro te mārama o ngā kupu.

     

     

     

    He mea nui ki a ia te mārama me te whakahua, i ngā kupu. Ko tāna tohutohu matua ki ngā manukura ko te whakaū i te mārama me te kaha o te reo. Nō tētahi rangi, ka kī atu ahau ki a ia, “Koro, me pēhea e nui ake ai te rere o taku reo?”

     

    Ko tāna mai, “He nui ngā mahi atamai ka taea. Ko tētahi, kia kaua e tātaki nō tō kapa e tangi mai ana.” Koirā te take ka kite mai koe i te “torona tītaha”, engari e kore e pēnei [warawara], nō te manukura e tātaki ana, he kore nōu e rongo i te manukura.

     

     

    E 20 tāne e pērā ana, ā, ko te manukura kei te tātaki. Ka kī ia, “Kia kaua tō kapa e oatemaaka i a rātou e haka ana, i ngā wā e tātaki ana koe, nē?” Ka tahi. Ka rua, ka mea mai ia, “E hoki ki te kāinga, tīkina atu he hopureo.”

     

     

    Ka kī mai ia, “E puta ki tētahi papa whutupōro, ki tētahi pātiki rānei.” Ka kī ia, “Whakatakotohia tō hopureo, ka hīkoi atu, ka tātaki ai i te haka. Hopukina tō reo, kātahi ka hoki mai. Whakatangihia. Mēnā kei te rongo koe i tō reo, me hoki whakamuri.”

     

    Āe. Nā reira i pērā ahau. I haere ahau ki tētahi whīra, ka weheruatanga. Ka hoki ahau ki te 22, e titiro korotaha mai ana ngā tāngata ki ahau, nā, ka hoki atu ahau. Āe. I rangona tonutia. Ka hoki ahau ki te rārangi piro, ka hīrea haere taku reo.

     

     

    Ka mea mai ia, “ka hīrea haere tō reo, koirā te wāhi me tū rā koe, ka tātaki ai i reira kia mārama rā anō tō reo. Me piki, me piki, me tātaki mā tō puku.” Nā, ka pērā ahau. Kātahi ka taea ahau te tātaki mai i te 75 mita te tawhiti i tētahi papa whutupōro, me te aha, i mārama taku reo.

     

     

    Autaia. Ka hoki ahau ki a koro, ka kī atu, “Koro, tēnā koe i ō kupu āwhina. He āwhina nui tērā ki te whakapakari i taku reo me te hōkaitanga anō hoki.”

     

     

    Ka tahuri mai ia ki ahau, “I nē? I pērā koe? I te whakahangareka noa iho au, e tama.” Ka whakaaro ahau, “O, e mara.” Engari he āwhina tonu. Nā tērā mahi i pakari ake ai taku reo kia rere tika ai. Nā reira he maharatanga ātaahua tērā. Āe.

    That's cool Mori. We're just going to start wrapping it up a little bit, Mori. Have you got any kōrero that you want to encourage our... Say to our tamariki? Encourage them around te ao haka? te ao haka is a pretty big thing now in our kura tuarua. 

     

    Helping them with Māori performing arts, being accredited to go through to university, not being accredited through dance, music and those Pākehā subjects. So, you got any kōrero to encourage our tamariki, confidence, what it takes, guitaring, leading?

    Ka rawe, e Mori. Ka tīmata i konei te whakakōpani ake, e Mori. He kōrero āu hei akiaki i ā tātou tamariki? Hei akiaki i a rātou i te ao haka? He mea nui te ao haka ā mohoa nei i ngā kura tuarua.

     

    He āwhina kei roto mō ngā mahi toi whakaari Māori me ngā tohu kia koke ai ki te whare wānanga, kaua anake mā te kanikani, te pūoro, me aua kaupapa Pākehā. Nā reira he kōrero āu hei akiaki i ā tātou tamariki kia māia, kia ū, kia whakatangi rakuraku, kia tātaki rānei?

     

     

    Yeah. You were born into this taonga. The taonga belongs to you. And if you have a passion for our Māori culture, our ao Māori, then you'll automatically be able to perform to the best of your ability. You'll be able to automatically give a hundred percent to this beautiful art form that we know is kapa haka.

     

    And just remember that when you aspiring to perform on stage, that you give it the level of commitment and dedication that's required to get you there. Always know that you're growing, you can always grow.

     

    And if I can grab a kōrero from koro Bub the road to perfection is always under construction, which is a beautiful kōrero, I think, to wind things up with. And that you are always learning in your journey, whether it be in te ao Pākehā or te ao Māori, you're always growing and learning each step of the way you take to aspire to attain that goal.

     

    So, if I can really say anything to our hunga rangatahi, is to go for it. Kaua e whakamā don't be shy. The taonga belongs to you and you belong to the taonga. And it's people like you that will keep our taonga alive. And I'm not just talking about hakas.

     

    Kapa haka is one medium of our culture and who we are as a people, but it's through you, that you're going to keep all of these akoranga and these teachings from your kaiako, your parents, your grandparents, and everything that you've learnt in your ao Māori journey, alive, long after we've gone. So kia ū ki ērā atu o ngā uara, ngā ōhaki, ngā akoranga ō rātou mā.

    Āe. I whānau mai koe ki tēnei taonga. Nāu tonu tēnei taonga. Mēnā koe e kaingākau ana ki tō tātou ahurea Māori, ki tō tātou ao Māori, ka eke noa atu tō tū. Ka pūmau noa atu koe ki tēnei toi ātaahua a tātou e kīia ana ko te kapa haka.

     

     

    Kia mahara hoki, nōu e wawata ana kia tū ki te atamira, me ū ki ngā takohanga e tutuki ai. Kia mahara hoki, e pakari haere ana, e whanake tonu ana.

     

     

    Kia tīkina e au tētahi kōrero nā Koro Bub “The road to perfection is always under construction.” He kōrero ātaahua tērā, nē, hei whakakōpanitanga. He huarahi mutunga kore te ako, ao Pākehā mai, ao Māori mai, e tipu tonu ana, e ako tonu ana i ia tūāoma ki taua whāinga.

     

     

    Nā reira me he kōrero ka taea e au ki te hunga rangatahi, karawhoua. Kaua e whakamā. Nāu tēnei taonga, ā, nā te taonga ko koe. Mā te momo pēnei i a koutou e ora ai tā tātou taonga. Kāore ahau i te kōrero mō te haka anake.

     

    Ko te kapa haka tētahi waka o tō tātou ahurea, engari ko koutou te hunga ka pupuri i ēnei akoranga a ō koutou kaiako, a ō koutou mātua, kaumātua, me ngā āhuatanga kua ākona e koe i ō tūāoma i te ao Māori, ā tua atu i tō mātou matenga. Nā reira kia ū ki ērā atu uara, ngā ōhākī, ngā akoranga a rātou mā.

    Kia ora Moz. It's been an honor and a privilege for us to sit here and have this kōrero with you, and how lucky our kids are to be able to have this resource to unpack for themselves, to be able to achieve at the best of their ability. 

     

    So, my friend, acknowledgements to you and the many surrounding mountains, your ancestors were right beside you during this interview. If you free your mind, and let your spirit flow, the Māori people can achieve anything. So, thank you, my mate.

    Kia ora, Moz. Nō mātou te whiwhi ki te noho tahi ki a koe, kōrero ai. E waimarie ana hoki ngā tamariki i tēnei rauemi hei wānanganga mā rātou, e eke ai rātou ki ngā taumata.

     

     

    Nō reira e te hoa, e mihi ana ki a koe me ngā kāhui maunga kei tō tahataha ō tipuna kua tae mai ki roto ki tēnei kaupapa. Ki te wātea te hinengaro me te kaha rere o te wairua, ka taea e tātou te iwi Māori ngā mea katoa. Nō reira e mihi ana kei te hoa, tēnā koe.

    Tēnā koe, otirā tēnā koutou.

    Greetings to you, and to you all.

    [ Accordion ]

    Opening images of the beach and ocean with waves breaking, changing to a panned out shot of Te Ao Haka written in the sand. Birds eye view panning over greenery land with the ocean in the distance before changing to a close up of the beach and ocean with large coastal hills in the distance. A still image of footprints in the sand to a clip of bird’s eye view of a awa with green farm lands on either side. Close up of flowing water in the river. Close up shot of a street sign with “Timoti RD” displayed. A Clip of some sand dunes with ocean in the distance. Two close up images with one showing a Cross made with sticks to a heart shaped out in the sand with stones as its lines. Another bird’s eye view of farmlands and a town with a beautiful sunset in the distance. Birds eye view panning the town with streetlights and moving car lights as it fades from dusk to dark. Multiple close-up images of a carvings displayed one after another. The words Ngāti appear on the screen with a faded image of carvings in a park followed by a taiaha panning in from the left with the words “Te Ao Haka” appearing.

    Reo Māori

    Reo Pākehā

    Ka pai, tēnā rā kōrua kei āku teina. Nau mai, haere mai ki tēnei puna ā pāho te ao haka, hei rauemi mō a tātou tamariki. Ngā tamariki kua whāngaihia e kōrua ki tēnei mea te haka, te ao haka me ōna taha katoa. 

     

    Nō reira e mihi ana ki tā tātou kaupapa. Tuatahi ake whakamohio mai ko wai koe, nō hea koe. Nā ka timata ki te tuākana i a kōrua ki a koe Tiahuia.

    Greetings to you both, my juniors. Welcome to the Te Ao Haka podcast, which will be a resource for our children, including those you’ve taught in haka and all that the world of haka encompasses. 

     

    Therefore, I must acknowledge this project. Firstly, tell us who you are and where you’re from. Let’s start with the eldest, Tiahuia.

    Tiahuia:

     

    Tēnā rā tātou kua poi mai nei ki tā tātou puna a pāho. Ko wai tēnei, ko Tiahuia Roopu Tini tāku ingoa. Ki te uri Tarewa he uri tēnei nō Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga nō Rakaipaaka, nō Ngāti Raukawa ki Otaki. 

     

    Ki Te whare tangata he uri tēnei nō Te Hekenga a Rangi nō Te Arawa me ngā ka wai whakaheke ō Ngāti Whare. Kei Heretaunga ahau e noho ana, he kaiako au ki Te Kura Kaupapa māori ō Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga. Ae, ko au tēnā. Ka tuku te wā ki tāku teina e noho mai nei ki tāku taha.

     

     

    Greetings to everyone who has gathered to listen to this podcast. My name is Tiahuia Ropitini. I am Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga, Rākaipaaka and Ngāti Raukawa ki Ōtaki on my father's side.

     

     I’m Te Hekenga-a-Rangi from Te Arawa and Ngāti Whare on my mother’s side. I live in Hastings. I’m a teacher at Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga. That’s who I am. I’ll pass it over to my younger sister now.

    Panache:

     

    Kia ora koutou, ko Panache Ropitini tōku ingoa. He uri tēnei nō Ngāti Kahungunu, Te Arawa, Tuhoe, Ngāti Whare. E noho ana ahau ki Heretaunga hoki. 

     

    He kaiwhakaako au i te mana kura tahi ki Te Kura māori ō Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga

     

     

    Greetings everyone, my name is Panache Ropitini. I am Ngāti Kahungunu, Te Arawa, Tūhoe and Ngāti Whare. I also live in Hastings and 

     

     

    I am a teacher at Te Kura Māori o Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga.

    Tēnā rā kōrua. He whānau tino rongonui tēnei i te ao haka, i roto i a Tūhoe, Te Arawa me Ngāti Kahungunu. Tēnā, kōrero mai mō ō kōrua haerenga i te ao haka, ā, kei hea kōrua ināianei. Panache?

    Greetings to you both. So, we have a very, very well-known whānau here in te ao haka, Tuhoe, Te Arawa, Ngāti Kahungunu. Tell us a little bit about your haka journey and where you've come to now. Panache?

    Kia kī au, i tipu au i te ao haka. Kātahi te wheako pai, ko te tipu i te ao haka. Nā taku pāpā au i whakapakeke i roto i te ao puoro, ā, i te taha o taku kuia i ako i ngā āhuatanga o te haka, ā, hoki pēnei mai ana ki roto o Kahungunu, ki te taha o taku koroua i ako i ngā āhuatanga o te ao puoro. I tōia ahau ki te taha puoro o te ao haka, ā, kei te pēnā tonu au i tēnei wā.

    Well, I grew up in hakas since birth, I could say. Probably one of the best experiences youngin to be raised in te ao Haka. Musically, raised on my dad side of my grandmother, learning all those aspects of haka and coming back to, Kahungunu to my koroua side and learning that aspect of music. I was driven to the music side of hakas and still driven to the music side of hakas.

    Pai ki a koe Tiahuia

    Great, over to you, Tiahuia.

    Tiahuia:

     

    Ko tō māua haerenga i te ao haka, i whānau māua ki tētahi whānau haka, i ngā taha e rua. I tūtaki ō māua mātua i te kapa haka, i te whare tapere o Kahurangi kei Kahungunu nei. Nō Whakarewarewa tō mātou kuia, he kaiako ia i te kapa haka o Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao. Nō reira, i tipu māua i taua ao. 

     

     

    I tēnei taha, e kī nei taku teina, i heke mai te taha haka i tō māua māmā me tō māua kuia. Ā, ki a māua, nō roto i a Kahungunu te taha puoro, arā, ko ngā whakapapa Tomoana tērā no reira he uri maua nō Paraire Tomoana ki te taha uri tārewa ō taku mama.

     

    I te taha ki tō mātou kuia ngā mahi haka. He nui ngā akoranga mai i te ao haka, ehara i te kapa haka anake, engari ko te ahurea kei roto e mau ana. Ko ngā kākahu hoki, ā, he whānau raranga mātou.

     

    Nō reira, nō tētahi whānau māua i rumakina ki ngā toi, ehara i ngā mahi haka anake. He kairaranga, he kaiwhakairo, he kaitito, he kaihaka, he kaiwhakangahau mātou. I whānau māua ki tētahi whānau haka i ngā taha e rua, ka mutu, he tipuranga rawe rawa atu. 

     

    Ākene pea he taura poi ō māua pito, ā, nā tō māua kuia te pukapuka mō te poi i tuhi. He tohunga ia ki te poi, ā, me pēhea taua pūkenga e kore ai e heke mai ki a māua.

     

     

    Nā māua i kawe ake, kāore māua i āta ākina. He wāhanga noa iho tērā nō tō māua whakatipuranga. Ko tō māua ao tērā. Ko te haere ki ngā haratau i te taha o māmā mā i a māua e tipu ana. Kāore māua i tipu noa i roto i te kapa haka o Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao, i tēnei taha, nā māmā i whakatū tētahi rōpū mō te whānau Huata, arā, ko Te Kahu o te Amorangi te ingoa.

     

    Ā, i ako māua i ngā taha e rua, he whakawhitiwhiti tā māua mahi. Kia hōhā au i taku taha Kahungunu, kua hoki au ki taku kuia, ki taku Te Arawatanga, ana, kia kore e whakaaetia taku takahi i ngā ture o taku kuia, kua hoki mai ki Kahungunu.

     

    Kātahi ka ako i tēnei taha, ka whakakotahi ai i ngā ao e rua. E whakamānawa ana i tō māua tipuranga i tēnei ao. Inā te pai. Ko tō māua ao tonu tēnei.

     

     

    Our haka journey. We were born into a fan of haka. We come from a fan of haka on both our sides. Our parents met through Kapa Haka through Kahurangi māori performing arts theatre here in Kahungunu. Our nan being from Whakarewarewa, being a tutor of Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao kapa haka. So, we'd be raised in that world. 

     

    And then on this side, as my tēina mentioned, our Haka side comes from our mum's side, our nan side. And our musical side, we believe comes from our Kahungunu which is our Tomoana whakapapa so we are descendants of Paraire Tomoana on my mum’s side. 

     

    And then on our nan's side is all our haka. We learnt a lot of things in terms of te ao haka not just kapa haka itself, but the culture that comes with it. The kākahu side, we come from a whānau of weavers.

     

    So, we come from a whānau who are immersed in the arts of not just performing arts. Weavers, carvers, composers, performers, entertainers. So yeah, we were definitely born into a whānau of haka on both of our sides, and it's been cool as upbringing aye.

     

     It's been cool as I think we were born; our umbilical cords were probably poi chords. Our Nan wrote the book on poi. So, she's been an exponent and it was just inevitable that we got those pūkenga as well.

     

    And carried them and it wasn't forced upon us it was just part of our upbringing. It's our lifestyle. Like going to practices with mum and them growing up. We not only grew up amongst Tuhourangi, Ngāti Wāhiao iwi kapa haka, but on this side, mum had then established roopū for our Hūata whānau which was the Te Kahu o Te Amorangi.

     

    So, we got to learn both sides and we would just jump. So, it would get sick of our Kahungnu, I would get sick of my Kahungunu side. I'd run back to my nan and just live in my Te Arawatanga and couldn't break some rules or nan's or come back to Kahungunu.

     

    Yeah. And then learn this side and just to put the worlds together. Yeah. Just grateful for our upbringing in this world. It's cool. It is just part of our world.

    He aha tō mahara tuatahi mō te haka? Ko te oma haere i ngā kapa? Ko te whakarongo ki te puoro? Ko te tito? Ko te noho ki ngā kaitito? I pēhea rā?

    What's your first memory of haka? Running through the ranks? Listening to the music? Composing? Sitting around the composers? What was that like?

    Panache:

     

    Kei 21 Clouston Drive aku mahara tuatahi mō te haka. Koirā aku mahara tuatahi mō te haka, arā, ko Clouston Crescent. Ko te whare tērā o kui. E parakuihi ana māua ko Matua Tū, e noho ana māua. E kai ana i ngā kai nā kui i taka, i ngā toenga kai rānei nō te pō rā. Arā a Matua Tū e noho mai ana i te tēpu, ko tāna he tito. 

     

     

    Arā a māmā kei te hōpa kua uru mai me āna kupu, ā, kua tīmata te waiata. Kātahi ka kitea rāua ko taku huānga, ko Matepō, kei runga, kei te rūma e patupatu haere ana i ngā poi.

     

     

     

    Ko wai atu? Kei waho a Matua Pluk e whiu patu ana. Ko tōku tuatahi e kite ana i te patu e piua ana ki te taura, arā a kui me ngā poi rima putu te roa e piua haeretia ana. Kei raro a Whaea Ringa e kato harakeke ana, e hāro harakeke ana, i rongo māua i ērā mea katoa. Ko tōku whakaaro tuatahi, e aha kē ana ēnei? He aha tēnei hoihoi i te ata? 

     

     

    Ko te whitu karaka i te ata. Kāore anō i eke ki te tekau, ko te whitu noa iho. Ko rātou tonu tērā e korikori ana. Kātahi au ka pātai, “Kei te aha koutou?” Kātahi tonu au ka rongo i te ingoa o Tawharangi. Arā nā māmā rāua ko tō māua matua kēkē i whakatū te kapa haka o Tawharangi, i te tau 2002 pea, i Takaparawhā.

     

    Āe. Kua whakaaro ake ahau kei te aha kē? 

     

    Tiahuia:

    Āe, e iwa aku tau. E whā, e rima rānei pea ōu.

     

    Panache:

    E whā, e rima rānei, e parakuihi ana i te taha o taku matua kēkē, arā, ko taku pātai tuatahi, “Kei te aha koe?” Ko tāna, “Kei te whakaharatau mātou.” Me hoki anō ki a kui, ka whakaae, ka whakahē rānei ia, me ana arohaehae, me ana pātai, “He aha koe e pēnā nā?” Ka mau ērā mea katoa, kātahi ka hoki māua ki Kahungunu, ka tū te hui tuatahi a tō māua matua kēkē hei whakatōpū i ngā kaihaka.

     

    Ko tōku mahara tuatahi tērā. Arā ahau e patapatai ana i a rātou, e mātaki ana i a rātou e kori ngātahi ana. Ko rātou tonu.

     

    Tiahuia:

    Kei tō rātou tūranga, nē?

     

     

    Panache:

    Kei tō rātou puna.

    Panache:

     

    My first experience of hakas. 21 Clouston drive. That was the first time I remember the hakas. Oh yeah Clouston Crescent. I remember that nan's house. I would be at breakfast with Uncle Tu. Me and Uncle Tu will be sitting there. I'll be having whatever nan made. Or something from the night before. And you'll see like Uncle Tu sitting there and he's just like busting and he's like pumping on the table. 

     

    You got mom on the couch, and she's got her words over here with a bit of gig going along and then you'll see her and my cousin Matepo that'll be up in the room. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Pois.

     

     

     

     

    Who else? You'll see uncle Pluk outside, he'll be swinging patu's. First time I seen patu's being swung by taura and then you'll see nan with the five footer poi swinging along. You'll hear aunty Ringa downstairs kato harakeke, scrapping, you'll hear, all that. And that was my first whakaaro like what these ones up to? what are they doing? What's all this excitement in the morning. 

     

    And this is like 7:00 in the morning. Not even like 10:00, 7:00. And they aye, it's a movement that they're doing on their own. And that's when I asked, "What are you up to?" And that was the first time I heard of the name Tawharangi. And there was mom and uncle. They made a haka team Tawharangi. I think it was 2002. Takaparawhā.

     

    Yeah. While I would've been like what? 

     

    Tiahuia:

    Yeah. I was nine. You would've been about four or five.

     

    Panache:

    Four or five then, having breakfast with uncle and that was my first question. "What are you up to?" "Oh, we're practising. Got to come back to nan. Get the yes and the no and the critics. And the, "how come you're doing that?" Get all those before we came back to Kahungunu and then uncle and them had their first muster.

     

     

    That would've been my first memory. That was me just asking them questions, but just observing them all moving at once. In their own little.

     

    Tiahuia:

    Yeah. In their own tūranga aye.         

     

     

    Panache:

    In their own little puna.

    I pēhea tērā ki a koe? He aha ngā akoranga kua mau? He aha ngā pūkenga i ahu mai i aua wheako?

    How was it for you though? What has it taught you now? What skills have you taken from those experiences?

    Ko tāku, ko te mātakitaki. Ko te mātaki tonu.

     

     

    I te nuinga o te wā, nā taku tuakana ahau i ako. Nā te whakatau tonu ahau i ako ai. Me whakatau rawa tāna i ako mai ai.

     

     

    Tiahuia:

    Me pai ake rānei.

     

    Panache:

    Āe, me pai ake rānei. Engari me ōrite rawa te katoa, i te mea koirā tō rātou hiahia. Ka takoto tō rātou hiahia, ko tāu he whakatau i tērā. Kia mau tērā, ka wātea koe ki te mahi i tāu e pai ai. Engari me mātua eke tērā taumata.

     

     

    Kia tika koe, kei te pai noa iho. Kua wātea ki te mahi i tāu e pai ai i muri atu.

    My one will be observed. Observe, observe, observe. Especially getting taught from... 

     

    Because the majority of the time I got taught for my older sister. And what I learned from all that was mimic exactly what you've been taught. Mimic exactly-

     

    Tiahuia:

    Or better aye.

     

    Panache:

    From... Or be better. But everything has to be the exact same. Because that's what they want. They ask what they want. So, mimic exactly that. Once you hit that, then you can do whatever you want. Long as you pass that line.

     

    Once you're okay, oh you're sweet. You can do whatever you want after that.

    Tiahuia:

     

    Ko tōku mahara tuatahi ki te haka? Ko tōku mahara tuatahi kei tō mātou pā, kei ngā konohete i Waka.

     

    He rite tonu te haere atu me te noho i te pā. He mea tapa ahau ki te ingoa o te teina o tōku kuia, o Tiahuia, ā, i taku whānautanga mai he kaiārahi ia i te pā. Nā te mea nōku tōna ingoa, nā rāua ko tōku koroua, ko Blue ahau i kawe ki hea rā, ki hea rā. Nā rāua ahau i whāngai i 66 Sala Street. Ko ngā mea e mōhio ka mōhio.

     

    I whakatipuria ahau i Waka. I whakatipuria ia i roto i a Kahungunu.

     

    I haria ahau ki roto o Te Arawa kia whāngaihia ahau e kui, ā, nā te mea ko au te mokopuna mātāmua i te whānau i pīrangi mai a kui ki tētahi i te rironga o tō mātou koroua. No reira ko au tāna hoa haere I a au e tipu ana.

     

     

    I whakatipuria ahau i te pā o Waka i ngā konohete me ngā mahi tūruhi. E tamariki tonu ana au, ka mōhio ahau ki tērā ao.

    Tiahuia:

     

    First memory of Haka? First memory of Haka would probably have to go back to our village. Waka concerts.

     

    Yeah. Always going. Being at the village. So, I'm named after my nan's baby sister Tiahuia and when I was born, she was a guide at the village at the time. So, because I carried her name, they carried me wherever they went. Her and my koro Blue. So, I was raised by them. 66 Sala street. If you know you, you know.

     

    I was brought up in Waka. She was brought up on our Kahungunu side.

     

    And I was taken to our Te Arawa side to be brought up by nan and because I'm the first a mokopuna in our whānau nan wanted me and because our koro passed away, she just wanted someone with her. So, that was me growing up by her side. 

     

    I was brought up in Waka village around concerts. Around tourism. So, I was introduced to the world at a very young age.

    I pēhea te tipu i roto i ngā konohete? I te mea e mōhiotia ana a Te Arawa mō ngā konohete me te whakangahau i ngā tini tāngata nō te ao katoa. I pēhea te tipuranga ake i ngā konohete?

    What was that like growing up in concerts because Te Arawa is known for concerts. Known to entertain the many people that come around the world. What was it like growing up around concerts?

    Tiahuia:

     

    Ko tō māua ao tonu tērā. He pērā ki a au. Koirā tō māua ao. Ka uru mai ētahi, “Wiii, ka haka i ia rā.” Engari ki a māua, koirā noa iho tō māua ao. Nā tērā i whai parāoa, i whai pata ai mātou. Ehara i te konohete noa iho. I te wā o tōku kuia, he hoko taonga iti nā rātou i hanga te mahi, pēnei i te poi raupō, i ngā taonga pākete whero rānei nā rātou tonu i hanga hei tuku atu ki ngā tūruhi.

     

    He wāhanga ngā konohete nō taua ao, ā, ko te tūāpapa tērā o ngā mahi haka mō te nuinga i Te Arawa. He haepapa kei a koe i tō tau tuatahi e mahi konohete ana. I te nuinga o te wā, mēnā ko tō tuatahi e mahi konohete ana, he mahi tāu, pēnei i te karanga. Kia toru noa iho pea ngā “Haere mai,” ā, ko tō karanga tuatahi tērā.

     

    Kia pakeke ake koe, ka whai pūkenga anō koe, ā, ka nui ake ō kupu, ka kounga ake. I rawe ki a māua ngā konohete. I ako māua ki te whakawhiti kōrero, i tūtaki māua ki ngā momo tāngata katoa nō te ao whānui. Ka kite i ngā mea nō Hawai’i, ka “Aloha” atu. Ki ngā mea nō Haina, ka “Ni hao” atu. “Nau mai ki Aotearoa, nau mai ki tō tātou pā.” Koirā tā māua mahi, ā, kei te pēnā tonu tō māua iwi i te rā nei. He papakāinga tērā e ora mai ana te ahurea.

    Tiahuia:

     

    I think for us it was just normal. That's the feeling I get. It was normal for us. Other people coming in it's like, "Wow! Kapa haka every day." But for us it was normal because it was part of our life. It's what put bread and butter are our table. It's not just concerts. Like in my nan's time it was selling the little taonga that they made. Like the raupo poi that they made or the little pākete whero ornaments that they made and gave it to tourists.

     

    So, concerts were a part of it. And that's where a lot of us in Te Arawa got our foundation for haka. Your first year you always have responsibilities when you're doing concerts. And it's usually if it's your first time on concert, you have to do a duty and it might be you're on karanga. And it might be just haere mai three times. That'll be your first karanga.

     

    And then as you get older, you become more experienced and then your kupu get a lot longer and then more kounga ake. But concerts for us was cool. We got to learn how to communicate, and we got to meet different walks of life. So, meeting different people from around the world, it was normal. So, we were able to see Hawaiian and say, "Aloha." See Chinese, "Ni hao. Welcome to Aotearoa. Welcome to our village." And it was a way of life, and our people still live like that today. It's a living village where culture is. Yeah.

    Ka pai. Nō reira, i tipu koe i Kahungunu, Panache? Nā wai koe i ako i Kahungunu nei?

    Cool. So, grew up in Kahungunu Panache. Who groomed you here in Kahungunu?

    Panache:

     

    Nāna tonu. (Katakata)

    Panache:

     

    Her. (Laughing)

    Pēhea nei?

    How?

    Panache:

     

    Nā māmā, nā ngā mātua kēkē.

    Panache:

     

    Mum, Uncles, Uncle Tu, Uncle Pluck.

    I pēhea tērā? I pēhea te āhua o te ākona ōu e tō whānau. I māmā, i uaua? He aha ngā wero?

    How was that? How was it being taught by your own whānau. Easy? Hard? Challenges?

    Panache:

     

    I pai noa iho. Kāore tōku whānau i rerekē ki a au i te taha o ētahi atu tamariki. Ko mātou mātou ngā tamariki.

     

    Engari anō a māmā, he karu anō ōna. Nōna ōna karu. Mēnā kāore e tika tō mahi, ka whakakarukaru mai ia, ā, kia whakakarukaru ia, kia tūpato.

     

     

    Tiahuia:

    Ka pā te whakamā i taua momo kohete.

     

    Panache:

    Whakamā tonu i taua momo kohete, ehara i te kohete ā-waha. E pūkana mai ana rātou, ana, kia mahara koe ko wai tonu koe. Me tūpato rā hoki.

     

     

    Tiahuia:

    Kia mahara.

    Panache:

     

    Pretty normal. I guess my whānau didn't quite treat me as any different as the other kids. I was part of the kids.

     

    But mum. Mum in another sense, she had her eyes. The eyes. You weren't doing it right, those eyes coming to you. And they're coming to you watch out-

     

    Tiahuia:

    Those growlings are shame.

     

    Panache:

    And those growling’s are the shame ones because they're not the yelling ones. That they're looking at you and just remember who you are. And watch out.

     

    Tiahuia:

    Remember.

    Ka pai. Tiahuia, i pēhea tō tipuranga ake i te taha o tō kuia? I pēhea ia? He aha ana akoranga mai?

    Cool. What about you Tiahuia who you're growing up with nan? What was she like? What did she teach you?

    Ko te hūmārie, te ngākaunui, te ngākau titikaha. Arā ētahi mātāpono nāna i whakatō ki roto i a māua. He mea ako noa i te tipuranga ake. Ka hoki aku mahi katoa i te ao haka ki taku tipuranga ake. Kia ū i ngā wā katoa. Me whakapono hoki. 

     

    Me tuwhera ngā whakaaro, me tuku ngā mātauranga kua ākona. Koirā te mahi i roto i ō māua iwi. Mā tērā e tika ai te noho. Ka whakahoki mai tā māua e ako ai i kō ki konei, engari ka whakakahungunutia, ā, ka whakahokia atu ki kō ngā akoranga nō konei.

     

    Ka kī mai a kui, kia haere mai koe ki Te Arawa, me maumahara koe he Kahungunu koe. Kia noho koe ki Kahungunu, me maumahara koe he Te Arawa koe. Me te maumahara ki ērā atu kāwai whakaheke anō, nō Ngāti Whare hoki mātou. Engari kāore e tata ana ki tērā taha, engari nō reira tonu. He pērā anō te taha ki a Ngāti Raukawa, heoi anō ngā akoranga mai a tō māua kuia.

     

    Kia hūmārie i ngā wā katoa. Āe, kia mahara koe ko wai koe, i te mea mā tērā e rerekē ai koe.

     

    Kia uru au ki rohe kē, ka tū ki te haka, ka mōhio noa mai pea ērā, ā, nō Te Arawa tērā, ka uru pea ki Kahungunu, he pērā. Ka mīharo ētahi i te kitenga i a māua e tū ana i roto i a Kahungunu, ā, e Kahungunu nei te āhua, i te mea kua waia rātou kia kite i a māua i roto i a Te Arawa.

     

     

    Kia hoki mai rātou, kua mīharo kē mai. Kua pātai mai hoki, “Wiii, me pēhea e pēnā ai?” Me pērā ka tika. Me ū tonu ki a koe anō. Kei noho ko koe hei take i tangohia ai he māka. E whakataruna ana koe i tangata kē i tēnei rohe.

     

     

    He mōhio koe ki te Māori, kua haere mai ngā mea o Te Arawa ki te tohutohu i a mātou, ki te tāhae i tā mātou tū. Nō reira, ko te ū tonu ki tēnei taha nei.

     

    Ko te ū tonu ki tērā taha, me te maumahara ko wai rā māua, 

     

    Panache:

    me eke ki tētahi taumata tiketike.

    Grounded. Yeah. Passionate. Committed. Those are some foundations she instilled in us. And unconsciously, this is just growing up like, "Oh yeah." And whatever I do in haka I'm always drawn back to my upbringing. Like no, always stay grounded. Always believe. 

     

    Be open minded and share the knowledge that we've been taught. And I think that's our balance for our iwi. How we balance things. What we learn there, we bring back here, but put a bit of a Kahungunu spin to it, and what we learn here, we take it back.

     

    So, nan always tells us whenever you come to Te Arawa always remember your Kahungunu. When you're in Kahungunu always remember your Te Arawa." And then remembering our other ka wai whakaheke like we whakapapa to Ngāti Whare too. Yeah, we don't have much to do with that side. But we do know we're from there. And same with our Ngāti Raukawa side, but that's what nan taught us.

     

    Always be grounded. Yup. Remember who you are. Because it's your point of difference ... is, 

     

    I can go into another rohe, and I could just perform, and they might be able to pick up yup he Te Arawa tēnā Go into Kahungunu, yeap. I think it freaks a lot of people out when we do perform for our Kahungunu side, and we look Kahungunu. Because they're so used to seeing us in our Te Arawa side, in that light.

     

    So, when they come back, they buzz out. But then they're also like really take it back like, "Geez, how do you do that?" You just have to. You have to or else you're going to be the one that, you're the reason why the mark's got taken off. You're trying to be someone you're not in this rohe.

     

    You know us māori, ah those Te Arawa ones come down here, influence us. Take our style. So, it's about maintaining this side here.

     

     

    Maintaining that side there but remembering who we are. 

     

    Panache:

    At a very high standard.

    I uiui au i tō whaea inanahi mō tōna haerenga i te ao haka, ā, i kōrero māua mō te ū tonu ki tāu nā mahi me te mōhio ki tō tūranga. Kei ētahi tūranga teitei kōrua ināianei, ā, he tūranga kaiārahi. E ako ana, e hanga ana i ngā mahi ā-ringa me ngā rangi. Nō reira, he aha āu tohutohu mō te ū tonu ki tāu nā mahi i roto i tō whānau?

    I interviewed your mom yesterday around te ao haka and her journey. And we spoke about staying in your lane and knowing your roles. You are in those roles now and you're in some elite, some leading roles right now. Learning actions, coming up with actions, creating actions, creating the tunes. What's your advice in staying in your own lane with your whānau?

    Panache:

    I tō mātou whānau, he mea nui te kōrero pono. Mēnā koe kāore i te mōhio me pēhea, e kopi te waha. Kaua māu e kōrero. Āe. 

     

    Tiahuia:

    Kaua e tautapa i a koe anō.

     

    Panache:

    Āe, kaua e tautapa i a koe mēnā kāore koe i te mōhio me pēhea. Me mōhio koe ki ōu nā takarepa, tae noa atu ki te takahi o te wae. Mēnā kei te raru tō takahi, whakatikahia. Mēnā kei te hē tō wiri, whakatikahia. Ka ū mātou ki ā mātou mahi ake. Kei te mōhio kē mātou te whānau he aha tā tēnā, tā tēnā.

     

     

    Tiahuia:

    Engari kei te pīrangi mahi kē tonu mātou.

     

    Panache:

    Āe. Kei te pīrangi mahi kē tonu, engari me noho tonu ki tāu.

     

    Tiahuia:

    He whakaaro ō mātou.

     

    Panache:

    Ko māua hoki ētahi. He whakaaro i kore. Mō ngā take katoa. Engari kei te mōhio māua, he aha tā māua mahi i roto i ngā ako a te whānau.

     

     

    Kāore e kaha kitea ngā whānau e pērā ana. He nui hoki mātou. Tokoono pea. E whakaako tahi ana i hea rā, i hea rā.

     

    Nō reira, kia haere tētahi, ki kaupapa kē. Mēnā au ka haere ki kō, ko mātou katoa ka haere. I ōna wā, ka puta rawa atu māua. Kua kī atu, “E pai ana. Kua haere noa mai ki te ako.”

    Panache:

    For us, honesty is a big one in our whānau if you don't know how to do it don't say nothing. You don't have an opinion whatsoever. Yeah. 

     

    Tiahuia:

    Don't nominate yourself.

     

    Panache:

    Yeah. Don't nominate yourself and you can't do it. Be honest with your flaws, really. Everything matters right down to your takahia. If your takahia is up, go fix it. If your wiri is out, go fix it. Especially staying in our lane. I think as whānau I think we already know where we sit. We all know where we are like.

     

    Tiahuia:

    But we want to sit in other seats too.

     

    Panache:

    Yeah. We want to sit in other seats too but staying in our lane.

     

    Tiahuia:

    Little bit opinionated.

     

    Panache:

    Especially us two. We got all the opinions about all the matters and everything. But we know where we sit within our whānau tutoring together.

     

    You don't see much whānau do that. Especially the amounts of us. There's about six of us. All tutoring together everywhere.

     

    So, one or she goes over to another kaupapa. If I go here, we're all there. Sometimes me and her really go out. We like, "Oh we're all good." we're just coming to learn.              

    Āe. Pēhea koe, Tiahuia?

    Yeah. What about you T?

    Tuatahi, ko te ngākaunui, ā, mēnā kei a koe ngā pūkenga, whakamahia. He rawe ki a au te waihanga. Koirā tāku.

     

    Mēnā au kei te pōuri, me tiki noa ake aku poi, kua tīmata taku patu haere i ngā poi. I ōna wā, i ngā wā e raruraru ana, kua waihanga ahau i ētahi mea rawe rawa atu. Nō reira, koirā tāku tino mahi, ko te ruku ki taku puna waihanga, ki taku wāhi auaha.

    I think the passion that gives you there. If you have the pūkenga utilize them. Like I love creating. It's my space.

     

    If I'm feeling down and out, I know that I just have to pick up my poi and I'll just start banging them around. Sometimes in those spaces, when I'm in those spaces or mind frames, I sort of come up with some really, really cool creations. So that's one of my favourite places to dive into. Is to my puna waihanga, to my creative space.

    Ka tino pai tō mahi tahi ki ētahi i tō whānau i a koe e waihanga ana, e auaha ana?

    Do you bounce off anyone in your whānau? Do you bounce off anyone in your whānau when you're coming up with creativity? Being creative? 

    Āe. I a au e waihanga ana, ka puta au ki te taiao, ki reira whakaaweawetia ai. Mēnā au kei Rotorua, ka peka au ki te pā, ki ngā ngāwhā, ka titiro atu ki ērā. 

     

    Ko te taiao te whaiao. Mā te āhua o te taiao tātou e whakaaweawe mai. Kia pūmau ki tēnā, he rite tonu taku puta ki te taiao. I konei, ko ā tātou tamariki ngā kaiwhakaaweawe mai, i te mea nō tētahi whakatipuranga rerekē noa ake i tō tātou. Ka mutu, he ao atu anō te ao haka ki ā tātou tamariki i Kahungunu nei. Ka pēnei mai rātou, “E kī, i tipu pērā mai koe me te whaea?”

     

    Panache:

    Kāore rātou e paku mōhio, nē? 

     

    Tiahuia:

    Āna, he ao hou katoa ki a rātou. Engari, kia whakaaweawetia ahau, kia waihanga ahau, ko taku huānga, ko Matepō Hepi tētahi me mihi e au. Ko ia tētahi ka mōhio noa mai ki tāku e whakaaro nei, kāore he kōrero. Kua kī au, koinei taku pīrangi, ana, kua mahia e ia. Engari ka pai noa ake tāna i tāku i mahi ai, he whakaniko tāna i tāku. He pērā māua ki a māua. 

    Mō te taha ki te poi, ko ia taku tino hoa mahi.

     

     

    Kei te mōhio noa mai ia ki a au, ka pai tā māua mahi tahi. Māna ahau e kōrero, me ngāwari ake, me kaha ake rānei, ā, māku hoki ia e kōrero. Mō te puoro, māku ngā kupu, māna te rangi.                              

    Yup. When I do bounce, I usually go out to, in creating. I usually go out to our taiao. So, if I'm back in Rotorua I'd probably go up to the village and I'll go and suss out our geyser's, our taiao. See what that's like. 

     

    So, our taiao is our whaiao. What our environment is what kind of influences us. So that's to keep that tighter, I will always go to our environment. Here it's our kids. Because they come from like a completely different upbringing to us. And haka for our kids here in Kahungunu it's like a whole other world for them. And they're like, "Whoa, did you grow up like that whaea?"

     

    Panache:

    They don't even know it aye.

     

    Tiahuia:

    Yeah. It's just whole new world to them. Yeah. But when I do bounce, when I create my cousin Matepo Hepi, I have to acknowledge. He's one person that can read my visions without me saying anything. I could say, I want it like this, and he'll come up with that. But then come up with something like way better to add to it and just enhances my visions. And as vice versa, he's one of the... Yeah. And when it comes to poi, he's one of my favourite people I love to work with.

     

    He can read me. He can work with me. He can tell me when to pull back, tell me when to give more and I can do the same with him. Music. I'm the writer. She's the tune. Yeah.

    Ka pēhea tō hanga rangi, Panache?

    How do you create your tunes Panache?

    Kei roto i a au, kei ngā wāhi katoa. Arā māua ko Tūrei, i tipu tahi māua ānō he māhanga. E rima ngā tau ka piri māua, ā, ko māua māua, ka mutu. Ko māua anake me ngā puoro me tā māua e whakaputa atu ai, e tango mai ai, e whakanikoniko ai. Rongo ai māua i te puoro i ngā wāhi katoa. Ināianei, e rongo ana au i te patupatu, i ngā takiwaru e toru. 

     

    Ināia tonu nei. Kia hiahia kōrero au, ka hopukia tāku e rongo nei ki taku waea, ka raua ai ki te pūkoro, ka waiho kia hoki ki te kāinga, ka kōrero ai ki a Tūrei, “Koinei tāku i rongo ai i te rā nei.” Engari, ko te noho i te marea te wāhi tino pai e rangona ai te puoro.

     

    Kia tau te noho. Kei te marea koe e noho ana, e tau ana, ā, ka nui ngā rongo i te wā kotahi. Ka rongo koe i ngā poki taringa o tētahi e tangi mai ana, ka whakarongo atu. Kua whakaaro ake au, “Āe, ki a au tēnā.” Ka rongo koe i te tangi a te pēpi, wiii, he taki anō kei reira. Ka rongo koe i te manawataki, ā, nāna ko ngā oro, nā ngā oro, ko ngā reo niko, nā ngā reo niko ka puta te taha whakaihiihi. Kātahi māua ka hoki ki te kāinga, mahi tonu ai, mā taku matua kēkē e whakaae, e whakahē mai rānei.

     

    Ina kāo mai ia, ka hoki māua, ka mahi tonu, ka hoki mai anō. E kore māua e tuku noa i te puoro.

     

    He pitomata kei kō. Nā te tipu I roto I te puoro me te whakarongo ki te puoro I Te Arawa, ka rongo koe I ngā mea katoa I reira. Ka rongo koe I te reo tōiri. I Tuhourangi, ko te reo tōiri tētahi o ngā āhuatanga matua o te rōpū. Mēnā he reo tōiri tōu, ka whakapuhitia koe.

     

    Waimarie ana ahau, he reo tōiri tōku, ā ka karawhiua e au, he mamae hoki, he uaua rawa atu nō te waiata, inā rā me he pēnei koe I a au ka pīrangi karawhiu koe I te katoa.

     

    Tiahuia:

    He rite tonu te kīia ōna kia ngāwari ake.

     

    Panache:

    Āe, kīia ai au me ngāwari ake. Ko tāku, “Kāo, kei te pīrangi au ki te waiata”. Engari, me hanumi kē ngā reo waiata. Nō reira, me pupuri. Me pērā, me reo tōiri rānei, me tino karawhiu rānei, me puta rānei te reo I te puku.

     

     

    Māu e kōwhiri tētahi e pai ake ai te kapa, ā, karawhiua atu.

    I have it everywhere. So, there's me and Turei, me and Turei. We grew up as twins and ever since five years old that we piri māua. That was it. No one else matter in our world. It was just us two and music and music, what we want to put out there. What we're going to take from it, what we're going to flare out. And we hear music everywhere. 

     

    Like right now I can hear banging and I can hear three eights right now. I can hear it right now. When I'm dying to say something, and just record it, capture it, put it in my pocket and then leave it and go home and tell Turei, "I heard this today". But the best time we hear music is sitting in the crowd.

     

    And just keep still. You just in the crowd and keep still, you hear so many things at once. You can sometimes hear someone's earpods going. And you just listen to what they sing. And you're like, "Oh yeah, we'll take that." And then you'll just hear this baby cry. And wow, there's a beat there. And you hear a cadence, and that cadence just comes notes and notes becomes harmony. Harmony becomes the X factor. Then we all go back home, mix with it, go to uncle. And it's either yes or no.

     

    If it's a no, we go back. Rewind, redo it, come back again. But with us, we never give up on music.

     

    There’s always something there. Growing up in music, listening to mausic and Te Arawa you hear everything over there. You experience a lot of soprano. Especially in Tuhourangi, soprano is one of the key factors to the roopū. If you’re a soprano you are spoilt in that roopū.

     

    I’m grateful that I’m soprano and I crunch it all up. Because soprano it’s very hard to sing. Especially if you’re like me who likes to full ball everything.

     

    Tiahuia:

    She gets told to pull back.

     

    Panache:

    Yeah, I get told to pull back. And I’m like, “Oh no, no. I want to sing.” But on reality to blend all our waiata have to blend. You have to pull back. Or you have to sit in a place where it’s either your head voice, your full throttle, or your puku voice.

     

    It's either one that you choose, that's going to help better the kapa then you hit it.

    He pēhea te āhua o te reo tōiri?

    What does the head voice sound like?

    Panache:

    Nā ka haere pēnei te waiata, (Ka waiata)

     

    Te kaha o te reo, kao, kāre I te pīrangi rongo.

    Kao, haere tonu.

    Panache:

    So, the song goes, (Singing)

     

    Or full voice, no you don’t want to hear that. 

    No, go.

    Panache:

    (Ka waiata).

     

    He hirahira ngā āhuatanga katoa I te ao puoro. Me mōhio te katoa.

     

    Ko ngā tino puoro kua rongo nei au, ko ā Ngāti Kahungunu. Whakamahi ai rātou i ngā takiwaru e toru, i ngā takirima e toru.

    Panache:

    (Sings).

     

    Everything matters in music. That’s what everyone has to realise.

     

    The best music I've probably heard is in Ngāti Kahungunu. Ngāti Kahungunu They use three eights, three fives.

    He aha ngā takiwaru e toru me ngā takirima e toru?

    What's that three eights, three, fives.

    Ko te tauira pai katoa, ko E Pari Rā. (Ka waiata)

     

    Katoa ngā waiata, tae atu ki a Pōkarekare Ana, he pērā tonu. I tōna tikanga, e mau ana ngā takiwaru e toru. (Ka waiata)

     

    Katoa ngā waiata, e tika ana kia mau ngā takiwaru e toru engari nā ētahi i whakarerekē. Nā tō māua taha Te Arawa i hari atu ai ki te konohete.

     

    Tiahuia:

    Kua pīrangi ki te whakahoho.

    Best example, E pari ra. (Sings)

     

    All of that. Every song, even Pokarekare ana's the same. It's meant to be in three eights. (Sings)

     

    Everything's meant to be in three eights, but now people kind of change it. Because our Te Arawa side. They took it to concert.

     

    Tiahuia:

    Oh, they want to do the trills.

    Kāti, he pēhea ō kōrua whakaaro mō te whakahoho? Me ū ki te āhua o te waiata o mua, ki te āhua o te waiata tira? Ināianei, kua whakahoho ētahi. He aha ō kōrua whakaaro?

    Okay. What's you fella’s opinion on trills? Old school, solid, grounded haka singing. Choir singing as well is quite grounded. And now add in the trills. What's your fella’s whakaaro on that?

    Panache:

    He rawe ki a au ngā whakahoho e mau ai te taha whakaihiihi. Engari kāore e tika ētahi whakahoho i ētahi waiata.

     

    Tiahuia:

    Ki ētahi tāngata hōki.

     

    Panache:

    Koia. I roto i ngā waiata Māori hoki. Ko tāku e rongo nei, ko tāku e whakaaro nei, me whakahoho i waenga i ngā kupu. Mēnā ko te haere te kupu, taihoa kia mutu te kupu, kua puta te ‘re’, tē waiata kē ai ‘haere’. Kāore e rangona te kupu katoa ‘haere’. Nō reira, kīia atu, taihoa kia mutu te kupu, kātahi koe ka whakanako ai, kaua i waenganui i te kupu kei tangohia he māka. Kotahi anō piro tērā ka tangohia mō te whakaputa i te reo. Kāore te kupu e rangona.

    Panache:

    Ah, I love trills for the X factor. Some trills ain't made for some songs.

     

     

    Tiahuia:

    Or people.

     

    Panache:

    Or people. Especially in Māori songs. Especially Māori songs. People what I listen to and what I hear, what I always think of is people trill between the lines. So, if the word is haere, wait till the end. Wait till the 're'. Instead of going, (Singing) haere. cause you don't hear the full word haere. So, trying to tell someone, just wait until the ending, then do your little fiddle, don't do it in the word because then you're going to get marked down. That's one point down because whakaputa i te reo. You can't hear it.

    Kei te tika hoki. Pēhea ō whakaaro mō te whakahoho, Tiahuia?

    Yup. So true. What about you T? What do you think about trills?

    Kāore e taea e au. kei a koe tērā pūkenga kawea,  

     

    Engari, kāore au e rongo i aua mea rā, i te tangata e whakahoho ana i waenga i te kupu. Nō reira, nōna ngā taringa puoro. Ka kīia noatia mai au he aha tāku hei waiata, waiatatia te oro matua. Waiatatia te oro tika, e kore koe e orotaha.

     

    Engari, mēnā kei a koe ngā pūkenga whakahoho. He pūkenga tonu tērā.

    Kua whakamātau ahau i ōna wā, engari kāore e taea. Kāore hoki he tauira.

     

    Engari, mēnā kei a koe taua pūkenga, kawea ake. Arā ētahi kaiwaiata rawe kei waenganui hoki i te rangatahi. Ka mutu, ka whakamīharo atu te marea, engari ahau nei hei kaiwhakawā kua whakaaro ake he aha koe i pērā ai? Ki ahau nei, mēnā ka taea e koe te whakahoho, mahia atu i runga i te pai me te tika. Kia kaha.

    I can't trill to save myself.  If you have those skills, do it but I guess, yeah. 

     

    I don't pick stuff up like that. People trilling in between the kupu. So yep. She's our music ear. I just get told what to sing, sing that and I'm just a lead. Sing the right note and you can't go flat. 

     

     

    But trilling, if you do have the pūkenga it's like. That is a pūkenga in itself.

    Yeah. I have tried now and then, but no, it's not for me. And no examples.

     

    But yeah. Trilling if you have the pūkenga, kawea, because there's some awesome singers out there, especially amongst our rangatahi. And the crowd do get really thing, but as a kaiwhakawā I guess sometimes you sort of, why did you have to do that? But yeah, for me trilling, if you can do it, do it well, but do it right. And kia kaha.

     

    Kia kōrero tātou mō te whakamahi i te atamira, mō te waihanga, mō te mahi auaha, mō te hanga nekehanga, mō ērā āhuatanga matua i roto i te ao haka. Ko ngā āhuatanga, ko ngā taioro, ko te tere, e kōrero ake nei koe Panache. He pēhea nei te hiranga o te whakahāngai i ngā nekehanga ki te waiata? Ahakoa he aha te waiata.

    So how important is it? 

    So, we're going to talk a little bit about stagecraft, creating, being creative and looking at choreography. You know, those are key features within our te ao haka. Elements, dynamics, tempo, you spoke a little bit about that Panache. How important is it to get the choreography right to the waiata? Whatever waiata it is.

    Panache:

    Ko te mea nui ki a au, ko te whakaeke. Mēnā he waiata paopao nei, ā, e warea ana ngā whakaaro ki te waiata, me titiro anō ngā nekehanga. Me hāngai ngā nekehanga ki te puoro me ngā mahi ā-ringa, me te tangata anō. Kāore koe e hanga noa i te waiata paopao noa, ka ngenge koe. 

     

     

    E kāo, me hāngai ngā mea katoa. Katoa me hāngai, ngā nekehanga me ngā mahi ā-ringa, te waiata, ngā oro me ngā tāngata. Me piri ngā mea katoa e eke ai te kapa, me tino pēnei ngā waiata whakaihiihi. Ko te whakaeke tāku e pai ai ki te mātaki.

    Panache:

    Oh, my main one is whakaeke. When you have like a pah, pah, pah song and then you are just like pah, pah, and getting lost in it, you got to reassess your chorey. It has to fit the music, has to fit the actions, as well as the person. You can't just create something bang, bang, bang, bang and I'm tired. 

     

    No, no, no, no, no, no, no, you fit everything has to be like a puzzle. Everyone fits. The chore fits. The action fits. The singing, the notes, the people. Everything comes together to make their kapa. Especially a wow factor item and whakaeke is one of my main things I like watching.

    Pēhea koe, e Tiahuia?

    What about you Ti?

    Mō ngā nekehanga, ko te mahi i te taha o taku matua kēkē. Ko Matua Tūhoe tō mātou tangata. Hanga ai māua i ngā nekehanga. Ka tukua māua e ia kia mahi. Mahia mai he nekehanga mō tēnei nā. Me rawe hoki. Ka mahia e māua, ka mutu me hāngai ngā nekehanga ki ngā kupu. Mā taku matua kēkē e whakaae, e whakahē rānei. Ina whakahē mai ia, ka whakakorea katoatia atu e ia, kātahi ka mahia anō e ia.

     

     

    Heoi anō, me hāngai ngā nekehanga ki ngā kupu me ō kaihaka. Ko te manawaroa tētahi mea nui, kei a koe pea tētahi whakaeke mutunga mai o te pai, he waiata rānei, engari e hīkoi ana koe i te atamira, e kihakiha ana. Nō reira, he mea nui te manawaroa. Kei roto tērā i ō mātou whakaaro, ana, he pai tēnei mahi ā-ringa, nē? Āe. Whakapirihia ki tēnei kupu i roto i ngā nekehanga, āe, he pai, engari māu e mahi, ā, ki te kore e taea, e kore e ākona. Kāore e whakamahia.

     

    Nō reira, ka whakaharatautia kia tutuki rā anō. Me mātua tutuki i a mātou ka whakaako atu ai, he whakapono nō mātou mēnā kāore e taea e mātou, he aha i whakaakona atu ai ki te kapa, ki ngā tamariki, ngā pakeke, ki a wai rānei? Me taea e mātou te mahi. Me taea e mātou tā mātou e whakaako atu ai te whakatinana, kātahi ka ākona atu. Āe. Mā mātou e whakaatu atu.

    Choreography, working with uncle. Uncle Tuhoe he’s our chore man. Like we can come up with choreography. He'll give us the leeway. Yup. Come up with choreography for this. Like something cool. We'll come up with some. And of course, me hāngai ngā nekehanga we try and make it that the choreography suits the kupu. Yeah. And uncle's either going to give us a yes or a no. And if it's a no, he'll just scrap the whole thing and then he'll redo the choreography himself.

     

    But me hāngai ngā nekehanga, yeah, I agree to the kupu and as well as your performers. Because stamina's a big thing can’t be having this mean entry, or this mean waiata and you're walking across the stage (puffing). So yeah, stamina is a big part. And that's one thing that we definitely think about like, this a cool action aye? Yep. Put it in this choreography with this word, like yeah, that is cool, but you do it. And if we can't crack it, we're not going to teach it. It's not going to go in.

     

    So, we usually practise it, or master it. We have to master it before we teach it because we believe that if we can't do it, why should we teach a group or kids, seniors, whoever that may be, and we can't do it. So, we need to be able to embody what we are trying to teach before we give it over. Yeah. So, we can share them.

    He nui ngā kapa e whakaaro nui ana ki te hauora i tēnei wā, ki te whakapakari tinana me te oma.

    A lot of our kapa are really big on hauora at the moment, eh. whakapakari tinana, oma. Doing whakapakari fitness is a big, big thing.

    Āe rā.

    It is.

    Ko ngā nekehanga me te waiata. Kāore mātou i whakamahia kia pērā i mua. He aha e pēnei nei ināianei? He aha kua ngaro nei?

    Choreo and singing. But back in the days we didn't have to. So why do we have to now? What have we lost?

    Panache:

    Kua whakauauatia ināianei, kua hāpaki kutu hoki. Engari kia pono, kāore au e whakapakari. Kei te pai taku oro. Kei te pai au, kāore au e whakapakari. Mēnā ka taea e koe, mahia atu, kia kaha tonu.

     

    E pōhēhē ana ētahi, me pēnei koe e pēnei ai koe. Me mutu tō kaipaipa e taea ai e koe te waiata tōiri. Me kore waipiro e eke ai koe. E hē. Kei tō hirikapo, kei tō hinengaro anō tonu tērā. Mahi ai au i ērā mea katoa, ā, e pai noa ana ahau. He pai ki a au te ngahau, ā, kāore hoki e mutu. Mā taku ngahau ahau e āki kia haere tonu, kia kaha tonu ahau.

    Panache:

    It's getting technical now that's we getting technical aye with nitpicking. Nitpickers. But we don't like to ponoa don't whakapakari at all. Pai taku oro. So, as you can pump, we can pump, carry on. Pump it.

     

    I think some people have the whakaaro that you have to be this to do that. You have to give up smoking to sing soprano. You have to kore waipiro to be on. No. That's in your own mind and your own brain. Because I do all of that and pai noa. I like to have my fun and I'm not going to stop it. My fun's going to drive me to carry on and I'm going to pump it.

    Āe, ko te mahi o te hinengaro, nē?

    Yeah. All to do with the hinengaro aye?

    Tiahuia:

    Kōia.

     

    Panache:

    Āe, koia. He tika tēnā. He rite tonu taku rongo i a Matua Tūhoe e kōrero ana mō ngā rongoā mō te korokoro me te mīere. Ko tāna, “Hei aha atu ērā, he moumou moni. E hoki ki te moe.”

     

    Tiahuia:

    Koirā tāna, koirā te rongoā pai katoa. Kua haere pea koe ki te tākuta, ka utu koe i te $30 kia kīia koe e ia me whakatā noa koe. Koirā tāna mai ki a mātou, whakatā.

    Tiahuia: 

    Yeah.

     

    Panache:

    Yeah. It is. It is. Seriously. I always hear Uncle Tuhoe about the throaties and the cough lollies and the honey. You don't need that. He always says, "You don't need that. Wasting moumou money man." Have a sleep.

     

    Tiahuia:

    Your best remedy and he always tells us, "You could go to the doctors, you're going to pay $30 to go and let the doctor tell you you just need a rest." That's what he tells us. Rest.

    He aha i hirahira ai te whakatā?

    Why is rest important?

    Tiahuia:

    Hei whakataa i tō tinana. He mōhio koe ki te haka. Ka mate koe ā-hinengaro, ā-tinana, ā-wairua. Ka tukituki ētahi i ngā mahi haka. Ka hōhā i te ako i te poi, i te mea kāore e mau, ā, kua hiahia ngawhere noa.

    Tiahuia:

    So that your body rests. Cause you know Haka. It can do you it can do you in ā hinengaro, a tinana and ā wairua. Some of us tukituki ki roto i ngā mahi haka. Fed up with learning the poi. I'm not getting action. And you just want to give up.

    Kua hōhā i te kōtiro kei tō taha katau e pōturi ana, e ārai ana i a au. Katoa ērā mea.

    Fed up with girl on the right, not moving fast enough. Getting in my way. It's all of that stuff.

    Tiahuia:

    He mea nui te whakatā.

    Tiahuia:

    Rest is essential.

    Mēnā koe kei te hōhā i te kōtiro kei tō taha katau, he aha i mea nui ai te whakawhanaungatanga i te kapa?

    So, if we are getting fed up with the girl in our right, why is whakawhanaunga so important within a kapa?

    Panache:

    Kia pai ai tō kōrero pono atu me te kore ōna e pāmamae.

     

    Tiahuia:

    Pono.

     

    Panache:

    Me pono. Me mōhio tēnā ki ōna takarepa, me tēnā ki ōna. Me pono koe ki a koe anō.

     

    Tiahuia:

    Koia.

     

    Panache:

    Ākene pea ka pāmamae te whaea rā. Engari, mēnā ia kei te pono, kei te mōhiotia ngā takarepa, ka mahi i tāna.

    Panache:

    Because then you can be honest with them without them getting cut up.

     

    Tiahuia:

    Honestly.

     

    Panache:

    Honesty. Everyone needs to learn there that everyone needs to learn their flaws. Be honest with themselves.

     

    Tiahuia:

    Yeah.

     

    Panache:

    That and aunty might get so cut up. But then if aunty knows the honesty and the flaws then she might be doing what she's doing.

    Engari ki te kore e pono, he pēhea nei te nui o te whakawhanaungatanga i te kapa e eke ai rātou i te rā o te whakataetae?

    Yeah. But without being honest, how important is whakawhānautanga within a kapa to be able to deliver on the day?

    Panache:

    Koirā tō kaha, ki a au. Koirā tō kaha, i te mea kāore koe e tū i te atamira me te whakapae noa mā rātou koe e tuarā. Ka hapa, ka whati, ka taka pea he poi. Kaua e whakapae noa, ka tino eke koe, ā, mā rātou au e tuarā. Me mōhio rawa i te atamira, māku koe, māu ahau e tuarā, ko tātou tātou. Kia kaha tātou. Ki te kore, ka rongo te marea i tōu nā wairua ka kawea ki runga i te atamira. Ko tōu ake hiahia, kia eke panuku.

    Panache:

    Oh, it's your power. I reckon. It's your power because you can't stand on stage and assume that they're going to have your back. You can hapa, you can whati, you can drop a poi. You can't just assume that I'm going to be 100%, but I think they got me. You got to be full on, on stage here. I got you. I got me. We got us. That's us. We're going to rock it. Cause ki te kore, your wairua that you kawe on stage is going to feed off to the crowd. That is, you want the best.

    Te wairua rānei i roto i te kapa, nē?

    Or within the team aye?

    I roto i te kapa, āe. Ko te whakawhiti noa iho, ā, kua tiro korotaha mai tētahi. Ka hē tō āhua katoa.

    Within the team aye! Even the crossing over and you get the side look. No. No. Just ruin's your whole āhua. I just urgh.

    Tiahuia, he pēhea te nui o te hiranga o te whakatau wairua i mua i te tū me te whakarite mō te tū?

    Tiahuia how important is it to whakatau wairua before you perform and get ready for your performances?

    He nui tonu, i te mea me tau, me rite. He whāinga nui tērā me tutuki, ko te whakatau i a koe anō. Kia rite ā-hinengaro, ā-tinana, ā-āhua nei koe. Ina pai a waho, ka pai a roto i runga i te atamira.

    Very important, be settled and ready. Yeah. I think it's a very important whainga to have. Is to whakatau yourself. Make sure that you're prepared. Ā hinengaro, ā tinana and ā āhua nei. You look good, feel good on stage.

    Ka hōhā koe mēnā kāore i te herea ngā makawe, ā, ka…

    Do you get frustrated then if your hair's out or anything and you take that before you....

    I ia tau ka pērā, titiro mai. E pūhutihuti nei, kāore au e puta ki te atamira ā-ao nei e pēnei nei. Anei taku kaiwhakatika makawe. I ia whakataetae, he raru ā-makawe ōku. I pērā ai he kore nōku e whakaae kia puta pēnei nei, ā, ko au noa iho tēnei.

     

    Nō nāia nei tonu au ka pai ki ōku makawe nei.

     

    Panache:

    Kia māori, nē? He pai ki a au te māori o te āhua, engari ia.

     

    Tiahuia:

    Kīia ai au i ia tau, engari kāore au i te rite. Nō reira, koirā tētahi o aku tikanga whakatā, ko te haere ki te kaiwhakatika makawe.

     

     

    It’s a bit of a every year occurrence, look at it. It’s a fizz that I cannot go on international stage with this. So, she’s, my hairdresser. Every competition I'm always having hair malfunctions. I've always had it because I refuse to go on like this. And that's just me.

     

    It's only now I'm starting to appreciate this.                                                                

     

    Panache:

    Natural aye. We like natural. She don't like it.

     

    Tiahuia:

    People tell me every year, I'm just like "kao, kāore au i te rite".So that's part of how I whakataa, I go to my hairdresser.

     

     

    Āe. Nā pai waho, ko pai roto. E tū.

    Yeah. Look good. Feel good. Perform.

    Koia tonu. Kei te mōhio au, ina tōtika aku makawe kāore e whakararu mai i a au i runga i te atamira. 

    That's it, and I'm sure. I know when my hairs tō tika it won't be like come off stage. Oh, shame. 

    I tō mata.

    In your face.

    Tiahuia:

    Āe. Nō reira, me rite ka tika. Me mōhio ki āu mahi. Me mōhio ki ngā waiata. Me tika te noho o ō kākahu i mua i te piki i te atamira. Kei a koe ō taonga katoa me mau i a koe i mua, i muri iho hoki i te tū. Kei te mau tō mana, kei te tau tō wairua me tō mauri anō hoki.

     

    Tiahuia:

    Yeah. So, I think definitely it's important to be prepared. To know your stuff. Know your bracket. Make sure your kākahu is in place before you go on stage. You've got all your gears that you need before and after the stage and yeah. Your mana is intact. Your wairua's intact. Your māuri ready to take it out.

    Kia kōrero tātou mō te tiaki i ō tātou kākahu me ā tātou taonga. He hirahira anō tērā, ahakoa he ngahau te mahi? Ahakoa he kaka pango, he kāmeta pāua rānei, kāore i te mau i a kōrua?

    So then let's talk about looking after our kākahu and our taonga. How important is that for when you're going to, even if you're doing ngahau. Could be blacks. Could be the paua scarves that you two aren't wearing.

    Āe. He ātaahua.

    Yeah. Beautiful.

    Ahakoa he aha, he ātaahua ā tātou taonga. Ko te mōhio ki hea noho ai ngā taonga me ngā piupiu. Ko te noho tika a te tīpare. He aha te hiranga o te tiaki tika i ngā taonga?

    Could be anything. Our taonga. Knowing where our taonga, our piupiu's is ready. Tipare is straight. How important is it to look after our taonga?

    Panache:

    Ko koe tonu tērā. He whakaputa tēnā i a koe. Kite ai au i a ia e mau taonga ana i ia rā, i ia rā. Kāore e kore, ka kitea e koe i tana waka he pēke kī tonu i te piupiu, he poi, he poi e iri ana, he taonga kei te pouaka o mua i te waka. Kua rite ngā mea katoa. 

     

    Ahau nei, ka mau i a au. Engari ki te puritia i taku waka huia, kāore e pākia, kāore e tirohia e tētahi. Mō te tiaki taonga, me tika tō wairua ka mau ai koe i tō taonga. Kia whakahokia atu e koe, kua pai tonu te taonga. Ki te kore, me tika tō karakia, ka tango ai koe i te taonga, kaua i waiho atu ai.

     

     

     

    Tiahuia:

    He mea nui te kākahu, whakahīhī ai mātou i ō mātou, ā, tiakina ai e mātou i te mōhio ki te nui o te wā me te mahi i oti ki te tuitui i ngā kākahu, ki te whatu i ngā piupiu, ki te mahi i ngā whakakai, tae atu ki ngā taonga. He nui te mahi me te wā i pau ki te mahi i ngā kākahu, i ngā pari, i ngā tīpare me ngā piupiu, i ngā maro rāpaki. Mēnā neke atu i te kotahi te kākahu, me pai te kāhui kaituitui o tō kapa, o tō iwi. 

     

     

    Waimarie ana a Tūhourangi, nō tētahi pā mātou he kura raranga, he kura whakairo kei reira. Nō reira, ki te hiahiatia ētahi taonga, kāore e tawhiti te haere. “E tai, kei te pīrangi taonga ahau.” “Ā, anei he pounamu.” Koirā ngā taonga kua tukua iho mai.

     

     

    Whakamānawa ana i tērā. Kia tipu ake, kia wehe atu koe i te kāinga, pēnei i a au, mōhio tonu au ka āhei taku haere ki te whare o tētahi huānga, “E tai, me whai poi au, he konohete kei te heke mai.” “Ka pai, kei kō.” Engari i konei, “Me whai poi ahau.” “Me hoki koe ki Rotorua.” Auē.

     

    Koirā te take he piupiu, he poi, he taonga kei a au. Kua rite katoa kei taku waka. Kīia ai mātou i te kāinga, kaua e wehe i te kāinga kāore nei ō piupiu. Ko wai e tohu ai?

     

    Panache:

    Ko wai e hua ai?

     

    Tiahuia:

    Ākene pea kei tētahi tangi poroporoaki, e kimi piupiu ana tētahi. Āe, kei te taraka. E Ti, kei a koe tō rakuraku? Āe. E mōhio ana te katoa e kī ana taku waka i ngā taonga haka i ngā wā katoa. Engari me tiaki ka tika.

     

    Ka akuakua ō Tūhourangi kākahu i mua, i muri iho anō i ia tūnga. Ka āta tiakina. Kāore mātou ko ngā tamariki e pupuri i ō mātou ake kākahu. E uhupoho ana ahau, i pērā ai nā taku tipuranga ake i ngā konohete. I ākona mātou kia pēnei te whakakākahu. Me tika te āhua, i āhua tāmia mātou, me pērā te kōrero. Ka kīia mai, “Me mau rawa ngā whakapaipai. Me mau rawa te ripitiki.” 

     

    Kāore e pērā te āhua o te Māori, engari koirā te hiahia o te marea, o te hunga mātakitaki. Nō reira, i whakahokia taua pūkenga ki konei, ki ā mātou tamariki, me here rawa ngā makawe. Hei aha te pūtiki pūhutihuti, me nahanaha. Mō te taha ki ngā māka, kei te mōhio au he aha tā ngā kaiwhakawā e kimi nei, kua noho ahau hei kaiwhakawā. He painga kei roto i tēnā. Me tika ngā piupiu. Me noho te taimana ki waengapū. Me noho te taimana ki konei, kaua ki kō noa atu.

     

     

    E koe, kei kō kē tō maunga, kei konei ō te katoa. Me kotahi te āhua o te katoa, tae atu ki te noho o ngā poi, he wāhi mō ngā poi, me koroheihei, kia kaua ngā pito e kitea.

     

    Panache:

    Koroheiheitia, ka kukume ai.

     

    Tiahuia:

    Ko ngā taonga ki runga nei. Kaua i runga i te pari, kei āraia te mahi a ngā whaea, a ngā mea rānei nāna i tuitui. Nō reira, ki konei tō taonga, he wāhi tōna. He pēnā anō ō whakakai. Kaua ngā makawe ki konei. He aha ai? Kei te āraia ngā here nā ētahi i mahi. Me kite te katoa. Ko te noho hoki o te patu me ngā rau. E tino uhupoho ana ahau.

     

     

    E kōrero ana au mō ā tātou tamariki, ko tātou ngā pakeke kua mōhio kē, i tōna tikanga. Ehara i te mea me tohutohu, whakatikahia tō poi. Mēnā me pērā, “Kāore anō koe i ako, e whā tekau ō tau.” Nā te mea kotahi te kōrerotanga mai, ka mau, koroheiheitia te poi. E kore e wareware ērā kohete.

     

    Panache:

    E kore rawa.

     

    Tiahuia:

    Ko tōku tuatahi i te atamira mō ngā whakataetae ā-rohe, i konei aku makawe. Kei tuku anō koe i ō makawe kia piupiu i runga i tō pari. Moumou ngā mahi a tō tipuna nāna i mahi te tauira. E kore koe e kite i ngā wāhine o Tūhourangi me ō rātou makawe kei ngā pari. He pērā anō ngā tamariki i te kura.

     

    I kite ahau i ngā whaea e mahi ana i aua pari. Māu rātou e whakamana mā te whakakite i ō kākahu katoa. Ina mahi mātou i te kōmore, i ngā moko i runga i ngā tamariki, me nahanaha, me tika. Mā reira mātou e whakamana ai i ngā mea nāna i mahi ō mātou kākahu.

    Panache:

    Ah, it's you. It's an expression of yourself. So, her, I always see her. She's always got a taonga on every day. Every day. You are always guaranteed to find in her car, a bag of piu piu's, a poi's behind, a poi's hanging. Her taonga's in her glove box. 

     

    Everything's always ready to go with her. See me if I have it on, I have it on. But if I just kept in my safe box, no one's going to touch. No one's going to look at. But even looking after your taonga, make sure your wairua is right when you wear your taonga. So, when you put it back, it's all right. It's all intact. And if you don’t you better have a good karakia and then take it off. Don’t keep it on there.

     

    Tiahuia:

    Kākahu, it is important, for us we definitely take pride, and we look after it because of all the time and effort that people put into sewing the costumes, weaving the piupiu, making the earrings and even our taonga. So, there's so much mahi and effort and time that gets put into all kākahu from your bodice, to the tipare, to the piu piu. Maro rāpaki, if you have like more than one kākahu who you must have a really good bunch of sewers behind your kapa, behind your people, iwi. 

     

    Which we fortunate to have in Tuhourangi. Coming from a village and now we have a weaving school up there. We have a carving school. So, any taonga we need, it's just a walk away. Cause I need a Taonga made up, here's a pounamu. Those are the kind of taonga that we have been left with.

     

    And so grateful for all of that. And it's not until you grow up and walk away. Move away from home like me I'm like. I always knew I could go to a cuzzies house, "cuz i I need some pois I got a concert". Yup, in there cuz. So, you hear, "I need some pois. Well, you need to go back Rotorua" I'm like, "Oh."

     

    So that's why I always have piupiu, poi, taonga. Yup. And they're always ready to go with my waka. We're being told back home, never leave home without piupiu. You just never know.

     

    Panache:

    You never know.

     

    Tiahuia:

    We could be at a tangi poroporoaki, anyone got any piupiu. Yup, in the truck. T got your guitar. Yup. And they just, yeah. So, everyone knows my car's always filled with haka gears. But always look after it.

     

    Our uniforms and Tuhourangi they get dry cleaned, before and after every performance. They get looked after. We don't hold our own kākahu and same with our kids. I'm very, very particular because of my upbringing and concerts. We were taught to dress a certain way. Look presentable was a little bit colonised. I have to put that in there. Yeah. We got told, "You got to wear makeup. You got to wear lipstick."

     

    And oh, that's not how a Māori wear, but it was what the audience like to see. It was appealing to the hunga mātakitaki. So, I bought that pūkenga back here with our kids always make sure no, your hair needs to be tied. None of this messy bun, but not clean. Because in the marks, that's what, I know what kai whakawā look for I've said on a few judging panels. So that's been an advantage, I guess. So piupiu always got to be proper. The diamond's got to be center. If your diamond's here, it's here it's not over here.          

     

    No hey, your maunga's is over here, everyone's here. So, everyone's got to look the same. Even the placement of your poi, have to be in a certain place tuck under this, pompom's out.

     

    Panache:

    Tuck and pull.

     

    Tiahuia:

    Taonga up. Nothing on top of the bodes because you're covering the work the whaea or the people have sowen. So, make sure your taonga is here and it's just got its own space. Same with your whakakai, no hair over here. Why? Covering this. Covering the straps that people have made. So, everything needs to be seen. Yeah. Placement of even your patu your rau. So, I'm very, very particular.

     

    When it comes to our kids, as adults, we walk into practice with that expectation. You shouldn't be told. Fix your poi. If you are you're like, "You haven't learnt, your 40 and you still haven't learnt. Because we were told like, once you learn the first skill tuck that poi. It's a growling that you will never forget.

     

    Panache:

    Forever.

     

    Tiahuia:

    Went on stage the first-time regionals, my hair was over here. Don't you ever wear your hair on your bodice again. Waste your tipuna's time doing that pattern. So, you'll never ever see two Tuhourangi woman with their hair on their bodice. And same with our kura kids I've taken that back. So yes.

     

    I was there when our aunties were making those pari. So, you will acknowledge them by showcasing all your kākahu. And if we have like komori, if we do the ink moko with our kids, it's got to be clean. So as long as it's clean, tidy, and it's the way that we acknowledge the people who did our kākahu for us.                             

    Ka rawe. Ko te ngahau, ko te whakataetae rānei. Ko tēhea tō tino tū? 

    Yeah. mean. Ngahau, whakataetae. What has been your best stand out of those two types of performances? 

    He whakataetae i te tau 2011. Ko taku tū tuatahi i Tūhourangi. I inoi au kia uru au ki Tūhourangi. Ka kī mai taku kuia, “Kei te tamariki rawa koe.” Ko tāku ki a ia, “Kāti, kua haere au ki Mātārae.” Ko tāna, “Haere ki te whakaharatau.” Nā, ka uru au ki te haratau. I te tau 2011 taku tū tuatahi i Tūhourangi. Ko taku tū tuatahi tērā i te taha o taku whaea, o Tiahuia, o Matua Tūhoe, o Whaea Mere, i raro i ngā whakaakoranga a taku kuia. Katoa mātou i roto i te kapa.

     

    Nō reira, ko te whakataetae whakamīharo katoa tērā ki a au.

    Whakataetae, 2011. 2011 first time being in Tuhourangi. I begged to be in Tuhourangi. I begged. My nana always said, "You were too young. You were too young." So, I tell my nan, "Oh well, I am going to go Mātārae." And she goes, "You practise now." And that's how I got to practise. But 2011 was my first time being in Tuhourangi. And it was the first time I got to perform with mum, T, uncle, Uncle Tu, auntie Mere under the tutorship of my nan. All in one umbrella.

     

    So that was probably my most amazing whakataetae that I ever had.

    He aha ai?

    Why?

    Na te mea…

    Because…

    Nā tō whānau?

    Just because of your whānau?

    Panache:

    Ko wai kāore e pīrangi ki te tū i te taha o te whānau?

    Panache:

    Who doesn't want to perform with their whānau.

    I te whakarere koe i a rātou mō Mātārae!

    You were going to ditch them for Mātārae.

    Panache:

    I te mea kāore au i whakaaehia. I te tamariki rawa ahau.

     

    Ko taku tino tū whakataetae nei tērā. Mō te Ahurei, ko te mea o mua ake nei i te taha o ngā tamariki.

     

    I kīia mai mātou he tū tā te kura tahi, he tū anō tā te whare kura. I taua rā, i huihuia ngā tamariki katoa e mātou.

     

    Ahakoa i kīia mai mātou, i konei tonu, i kīia mai kia 40 ngā tāngata, i 145 kē mātou.

     

    145 ngā tāngata i runga i te atamira. Ko ngā reanga katoa ērā kua kite au nāku i whakaako, i te mea whakaako ai au i te kura tahi, tae atu ki te whare kura. Ka kite koe i ngā reanga katoa i tēnei atamira tonu e karawhiu ana i ngā nekehanga, i te katoa, i te poi roa me te poi poto. 

     

    Ko taku tino wāhanga, ko te whakaeke. Whakaarotia ake, 145 ngā tāngata, ā, kei te taha ahau e tātaki ana i te whakaeke, e titiro ana ki te kapa kia rongo ai rātou i a au. (Ka waiata)

     

     

    Tahuri atu au.  

     

    Tiahuia:

    Kei muri kē I te ārai.

     

    Kei muri kē au i te ārai, kei te taha, engari e karawhiu tonu atu ana. Heoi anō, me haere tonu, mahia atu. Ina mate koe ki te tū ki te taha, waiata ai ki te ārai pango, kāti, mahia atu. Koirā taku tino ahurei, ā, ka kata au i tērā wāhanga.

    Panache:

    Well, because I wasn't allowed to. I was too young. Yeah.

     

    That was probably my best whakataetae performance, it was then. Ahurei. My best Ahurei was the recent one that we just did with our kids.

     

    We got told what we were meant to have a kura tahi performance and a whare kura performance. On that day we had all the kids together.

     

    Even though we're told right here, happened here. We got told 40 people. We took on 145.

     

    145 people, put them all on stage. And then that was all the reanga I seen that I've taught because I teach from kura tahi all the way to whare kura. And seeing that reanga on this very stage, going full ball, with choreo and movements and everything. Long poi, short poi. 

     

    I've got a favourite part in there. So, the whakaeke. Imagine 145 people on this stage. We can't fit by the way. It's 145 and I'm on the side and I had to lead the whakaeke as I'm on the side. Looking at the kapa like, so they can hear me. (Singing) 

     

    Spun over. I'm behind the curtain. 

     

    Tiahuia:

    She’s in the wing.

     

    I'm in the wing but I'm like going full ball and I'm just like, "Oh. Just carry on. Hit it. You're going to perform to the wing, perform to the wing. Got to perform to that black curtain. Do it well." So that would probably be my best ahurei, and that moment, that was a funny moment.

    Pēhea koe, Tiahuia?

    What about you T?

    Ko taku tino tau whakataetae, ko te tau 2012.                                                       

     

    Nā te mea i tino pai. I pai anō te wairua, he whakataetae, engari he ngahau te wairua, ā, ka hoki ngā mahara ki te kāinga, ki tō mātou āhua i te pā. Hei tauira, ka tū atu mātou i ngā poroporoaki, ā, he wā pai ērā. 

     

     

    E waiata noa ana i ngā waiata ā-iwi, ā, ko te wairua te mea nui, ehara ko ngā waiata. Nō reira, i pai ai nā te wairua o te kapa. Ki taku mōhio, ko tana tū tuatahi tērā. I waiata takitahi ia. Heoi anō, nā taku kuia i tohutohu te kapa, i tērā wā, i te ārahina mātou e taku huānga, e Laurell rāua ko Matua Dan i mate i tērā tau. Ko Matua Dan tō mātou rangatira.

     

     

    I roto rā a Māmā, a Matua Tū, a Whaea Mere, a Matua Pluck me te whānau whānui nō te pā. I tino pai. I to mātou taha hoki tō mātou hoa, a Jojo. I tino pai rawa atu. I tino pai rawa atu taua tū. Waimarie ana i tuatahi mātou i taua tau, i te tau 2012. Ka mutu, ko mātou te kapa whakamutunga o te rā, ka mutu ko te whakangahau i muri mai. Katoa ngā kuia me ngā koroua i te tatari mai ki a mātou i te karapu.

     

     

    Ko ngā wāhanga pai ērā, ka hoki nei mātou ki te kāinga me ā mātou taonga, arā, ngā koeke e tatari mai ana, e waiata mai ana, engari ko tātou tonu e waiata ana ki a tātou anō. Engari ko te kite i ngā koeke e waiata ana ki a mātou. Ehara, ko rātou ngā kaihaka o te kapa i mua atu i a mātou.

     

     

    Koirā taku tino whakataetae. Mō te taha ki te whakangahau, he nui tonu. Ko ngā tino whakangahau, ko ngā pā haka. Ka hoki mātou ki Wairoa, ki reira tū ai i tō mātou taha nō Te Wairoa.

     

     

    Ka tū ki kō, ā, ka tū hoki te Ahurei a Tūhourangi i te taha ki tō mātou kuia, ā, ka tū mātou. Whakataetae ai ngā whānau ki ngā whānau, ehara ko ngā marae ki ngā marae, nā te mea nō te kāinga kotahi mātou. Nō reira, ko tēnei whānau ki tērā whānau. Ko ngā whakatiketike ēnei o te pā. Inā te ātaahua. Ko te kite i ngā whānau e whakaora ana i ā rātou ake waiata ā-whānau, e whakakite ana hoki i ō rātou kākahu o mua. Nō reira, ko ngā wā whakangahau pai katoa, ko ngā pā haka i Te Wairoa me Rotorua.

    I think my favourite whakataetae year would have to be 2012.

     

    Because it was just a really, really cool. The wairua that we had when we were, it was a competition. It was like really, really ngahau and it took me back to home. So how we all just in the village, like we would just get up at like a poroporoaki for example. And those are the best times. 

     

    When you're just singing your waiata ā iwi and it's the wairua. Not so much the bracket. It was the wairua of the team at the time. And I think that was the year it was her first stand. And she got a solo that year. But yeah, nan was the overseer of the kapa at the time where we led by our big cousin Laurelle and our uncle Dan who passed away late last year. Uncle Dan was our leader.

     

    Mum was in there yeah, Uncle Tu, auntie Mere uncle Pluck. And the rest of our whānau from the village. That was a very cool, and our mate Jojo, she was with us that year, but the wairua of the roopū that year was really, really cool. And that was a really cool stand. And we were fortunate enough to place first that year, 2012. And we were on last and of course the whakangahau afterwards, all our nanas and our Koro’s were at the club rooms waiting for us.

     

    And those are the cool parts when we get to go home with our taonga and our koi eke in the club room waiting for us. And they like singing to us, but it was like, we all just singing to ourselves. But going and seeing our koi eke sing to us. And of course, they were the kai haka of the kapa before we became of age.

     

    So that was my favourite whakataetae moment. Whakangahau, I've had heaps. My favourite whakangahau are the ones and we have our pā haka. So, we get to go back to Wairoa, and we get to perform with our Wairoa side.

     

    So, represent there and then we also have our Tuhourangi Ahurei back on our nans side, so we can go back in that to perform. It's like whānau on whānau. It's not marae on marae. So, because we are from the one village, it's like a our whānau verse that whānau. And it's like the best of the best in the village. And it's beautiful. It's cool to see all the whānau reviving. Not only their own whānau waiata but bringing their traditional kākahu out for show on display. So, my favourite whakangahau moments would be pā haka in Wairoa, pā haka back at Rotorua as well.

    Ka rawe. Kia kōrero iti tātou mō te kaitātaki me te hiranga o te kaitātaki. Me aha te tangata e tū ai ia hei kaitātaki i tō kapa? Kei a koe, Pi.

    Mean. So, we're going to talk a little bit about kaitātaki and how important it is to be a great leader. What does it take to be a kaitātaki of your roopū? Start with you, P.

    Te kaitātaki. Ko taku tohutohu matua ki ngā kaitātaki wāhine, me whakaiti. Kia whakaiti koe, ka ako koe. Kia mauritau koe, ka ako koe. Ka mau i a koe ngā akoranga hou. Ka mōhio koe me pēhea te whakatika ake i ētahi mea, me pēhea koe e pai ake ai.

     

     

    Ka mutu, kei te titiro te katoa ki te kaitātaki. Ko koe te whetū. I tipu ahau hei kaitātaki wahine i ngā kura me ngā kapa kua tū nei au. He kaitātaki ahau. Ko te painga mōku, kei taku whānau ngā pūkenga, ā, ka hoki au ki taku kuia. Ko tāku, “E kui, he aha rā kei te hē? Kua hē nei tētahi aha rā, ā, he aha i pēnei ai?” Ko tāna, “E hoa, kia pono koe ki a koe anō. Ko koe anō e mōhio ki ōu nā takarepa, ā, māu e whakatika ake te katoa.”

     

     

     

    Tiahuia:

    Kāti te rūkahu ki a koe anō, e hoa.

     

    Panache:

    Koirā tonu tāna, “Kia tīmata tō rūkahu, me tuku iho koe.” Ko tana kōrero tērā. Nō reira, ka pono ahau ki taku āhua, ki taku oro, ki tāku e whakaputa atu ai me tāku e tuku ai ki kaitātaki wahine kē kei muri, kei mua rānei i a au, ā, ka whakarongo hoki au ki ngā arohaehae mai.

    Kaitātaki. Ooh. My best advice I could give with kaitātaki wāhine would be humble. Be humble. Be very, very humble because once you are humble, you learn a lot. Once you sit in that aye, that māuritau you learn a lot. You learn what you don't know. You learn how you can perfect something, and you learn how to be better.

     

    And especially kaitātaki everyone's looking at you. You are it. And I've always grown up to be a kaitātaki wāhine for any kura that I've performed or any kapa that I've been in, I've always been kaitātaki. So having the pūkenga within my whānau is, I reckon is a bonus myself because I can go back to nan. And ah. Nan, something's wrong. Something's wrong. Something's off. Hei aha i pēnei ai, she would be like, "No, mate, you go back to your honest. You be honest with yourself. You know your flaws, and you perfect everything."

     

    Tiahuia:

    Stop lying to yourself mate.

     

    Panache:

    And she always said that "The day you lie, the day you get off." She always says that. So, I've always been honest in what I look like, what I sound like, what I'm going to project out there and what I give to other kaitātaki wāhine that come after me and before me or I take every critic.        

    He pai ki a koe kia rerekē tō āhua i te kapa katoa?

    Do you like looking different to the rest of the roopū?

    Āna. Pēnei i ngā kākahu?

    Always. Oh, like as in kākahu?

    Āe, ngā kākahu.

    Kākahu.

    Kāo, me rerekē ko tō tū. Ko tō tū tohungatanga. Mā tērā e whakakite ērā atu mea. Ka āhei tō kite i te kaitātaki i te kapa kotahi rau i te āhua o tana tū, o tōna āhua tonu, o tana tuku, o tōna mauri, o tana kawenga. I ōna wā, arā te kōtiro ātaahua e waiwaiā mai ana, kei a ia ngā taonga katoa, engari e kaiponutia ana tōna wairua ki a ia anō.

     

     

    Kāore he kapa ka whai i tētahi kāore nei e tika tana tātaki i a rātou. Ko te kaitātaki e tika nei te wairua, e tau nei te mauri, ko tāna he titiro ki tana kapa, ka titiro ai ki a ia anō. Kotahi te kī, kua neke te kapa, te iwi, te motu katoa.

     

    Nō reira, whāia kia noho te whakaiti hei rangatira mōu, ka pā mai ngā arohaehae me ngā mōrearea. Kawea ake ērā mea ka whiua mai. Kei te pai. E kata, menemene. Ina ka tika, tuku mihi ki te tangata. Ina ka hē tuku mihi ki te tangata ahakoa te aha.

     

    Nō reira, mihia te tangata, ahakoa hē mai, tika mai rānei tāna. Mihia atu.

    No, I reckon your presence should be different. Your presence is the best thing. That should be the one that should be showing off everything else. You'll pick out a leader in a group of a hundred just by their presence, how they are. Their tuku, their māuri and their kawenga. You know sometimes you have that flash, pretty, stunning girl, has everything in the world, but your wairua is just for yourself.

     

    No kapa is going to follow someone that's not going to lead them properly. So, when you have a leader that their wairua's on, their mauri's on. They make sure their roopū's intact before themselves. They need to say one word and the whole kapa, the whole iwi or the whole motu will move.

     

    So, find your humbleness and that humbleness you'll find all the critics or the danger. Those things that get thrown that you take it all on. It's mean. And laugh and smile. If they’re right, acknowledge the person. If they’re wrong, still acknowledge the person regardless.

     

    So always mihi to someone, even whatever if it's bad or good. Just mihi.

    Utua te kino ki te pai.

    Meet the bad with the good.

    Ana, koia. Mātua tērā, me te whakamānawa. Ana.

    Yeah, exactly. That's the best and gratitude. That's it.

    Ka rawe. Tiahuia?

    Mean. T?

    Āe, ko te ngākau whakaiti tonu. Koia tonu pea. Ko māua māua. Engari ia i āta poipoia ia hei kaitātaki mai anō i tana whānautanga mai. Kua tū māua i ētahi kapa ngahau i a māua e tipu ake ana, ā, ko ia tonu te kaitātaki. Ki a au, he rerekē te āhua o taku tātaki. Kei muri kē ahau. Ko au te kaiārahi kāore nei e mataku ki te kōrero, kia mōhio mai koe, mēnā ka taea e au, ka taea e wai rā.

     

     

    Nā ngā āhuatanga e taupatupatu ana i roto tonu i a au, mēnā ka taea e au ērā āhuatanga te piki me te kore i whāki, kei te mōhio au ina whakaaturia atu, ka rangona e rātou. Nō reira, ko te pupuri i ō whakaaro pono i roto i a koe i ōna wā. Kāore au i te rite kia pērā. Engari, ko ō mātou kaitātaki, he mea kōwhiri. Ehara i te mea nāku anō au kōwhiri.

     

     

    Kāo, ahakoa koirā ō whakaaro, tō mōhio rānei, āe, kei a koe ngā pūkenga ki te kawe i tērā tūranga. E kore koe e mea, āe, māku tātou e tātaki. E kāo. Waimarie ana mātou i te kāinga, mā ngā pakeke e kōwhiri.

     

     

    Āe. Mā ō mātou pakeke mātou e kōwhiri. Nō reira, mēnā nā ō pakeke, tō kaiako rānei koe i kōwhiri, kua kite rātou i te aha rā i roto i a koe, ā, kāore hoki pea koe i te mōhio he aha, engari e mahi tonu koe i tāu, ā, mā rātou koe e ārahi. I roto i aua whakaakoranga, e poipoia ana ngā kaitātaki.

     

     

    Ā tātou tamariki, e tukua iho ana ngā whakaakoranga mai. Ka tika i a mātou, kātahi ka tukua iho. Ko tā mātou ki ngā tamariki, “Kua wātea koe ināianei ki te tāpiri. Āe, ka tika i a koe.” Ka haramai rātou, “Whaea, ka āhei te pēnei? Kōkā, kei te pai tēnei nekehanga?” “Kei te tika tēnei tohutohu?” “He aha te tohutohu tika mō tēnei?” He mea anō te mōhio ki te arataki. Whānau mai ai ētahi he kaiārahi, poipoia ai ētahi hei kaiārahi, pīrangi noa ai ētahi hei kaiārahi.

     

    Panache:

    Engari e tū hei kaiārahi tika.

     

    Tiahuia:

    He rite tonu tā kui kōrero mai mō te kaiārahi, nā Mauriora Kīngi ia i kōrero, nāna mai ki a mātou. E toru ngā tūmomo chiefs. He aha anō ngā tūmomo chiefs?

     

    Panache:

    Ko mischief, ko handkerchief, ko chief.

     

    Tiahuia:

    Arā a chief, mischief me handkerchief.

     

    Āe. Ko tēhea koe? I whānau mai ētahi he kaiārahi, i poipoia ētahi hei kaiārahi, ā, arā ētahi kei te hiahia noa iho hei kaiārahi. Ko tēhea koe? He kaiārahi te katoa. He rangatira te katoa. He raukura tēnā me tēnā. Engari ka hoki anō ki te whakaiti me ngā pūkenga ka kawea e koe, me te āhua o tō kawe i a koe.

    Yeah. Ngakau whakaiti. Yeah, I think that's it. I think we are the same, but she was always groomed as a leader, like from birth. Yeah. She has led and we've been in a few haka teams like ngahau and that growing up and she has always been the kaitātaki. I think my leadership comes in a different light. Mine's more back behind closed doors. I'm kind of like the kaiārahi not scared to tell anyone, just make sure that you know, If I'm able to do it, I believe that anyone else can.

     

    Because of the things that I battle with myself internally, like if I can overcome that without telling anyone, I know that if I portray it like this, they will catch it and they will feel it. So yeah. Not expressing what you truly feel internally like, "Oh no, I don't think I'm I'm capable for that." But so, as kaitātaki for us, we were sort of selected. We were like, "Yeah, I'll be the leader."

     

    Kao, although you may think, or you may actually truly know that. Yup. You have those pūkenga to kawe this tūranga, you wouldn't like but yeah, I'll lead us. I got us. Kao. And for us, we were lucky, back home our pakeke select.     

     

     

    Yeah. Our pakeke select us. So, if your pakeke selects you, if your kaiako or your teacher selects you, they see something in you. And you may not even know what it was, but just carry on doing what you're doing. And they will just guide you along the way. And with those teachings, that is how we groom our leaders.

     

    Our kids, it's just everything we've been taught. We master it and we pass it on. And then just remind the kids, "Now you can add your own flare. Yup. You'll mastered that." And then they'll always come "whaea can we do this koka, is this move all right?" Or "Is this command all right? What's a command for this?" Yup. So, knowing how to lead is one thing, some. Some people are born leaders, some people have been groomed to be a leader, and some people just want to be a leader. I think, yeah.        

     

    Panache:

    Just be the right leader.

     

    Tiahuia:

    And nan always tells us, reminds us when you are a leader, Mauri Ora Kīngi, told them which they passed on us. There's three kinds of chiefs. There's mischief. What's the chiefs?

     

    Panache:

    Mischief, handkerchief, and chief.

     

    Tiahuia:

    There's chief, mischief and handkerchief.

     

    Yeah. Which one are you? So, there's born leaders, there's groom leaders. And then there's wannabe leaders. Which one are you? So, everyone's a leader. Everyone's a rangatira, everyone's a raukura in their own light. But honestly it does come back to being your humility, the pūkenga that you carry, the way you carry yourself.

    Ka rawe tēnā. Mēnā e toru ō tohutohu matua hei tuku māu ki tētahi e tauhou ana ki te ao haka, e pīrangi ana ki te kawe ake i tēnei kaupapa, he aha aua tohutohu matua e toru hei whāngai māu ki a ia?

    Yeah, mean. If you had three top things, advice and inspiration that you could give anyone, they're new, green to te ao haka, want to take this kaupapa on, what are your three top things that you would share with them?

    Tiahuia:

    Ko tētahi tohutohu nāku, mēnā koe kei te pīrangi kia mōhio ake koe ki a koe anō, ki ngā pūkenga kei a koe, ki te mea ngaro kei a koe, whāia te ao haka. Ka nui ngā akoranga mōu anō, kāore koe i mōhio ka taea e koe, kāore rānei koe i mōhio kei a koe aua pūkenga. Ka kite koe i te ao haka, he wāhi tēnei e āhei ai tō waihanga, tō whakaputa i a koe anō, tō ako, tō noho hei ākonga, hei kaiārahi anō. Mēnā koe kei te pīrangi mōhio ki te mea ngaro kei roto i a koe, nau mai ki te ao haka.

     

     

    E ruku. E ruku ki te auahatanga. Ka puta ētahi āhuatanga kāore au i mōhio kei roto i a au.

    Tiahuia:

    One of the pieces of advice I would give, if you want to know yourself more, if you want to get to know yourself more, if you want to know skills that you have, if you want to tap into the unknown of yourself, pursue Te Ao haka. You find out so much about yourself that you didn't even know you could do, that you knew you had, some skills you had. You will find that in te ao haka this is a space that allows you to create, to express and to learn, to be a student and to be a leader as well. Yeah. If you want to tap into the unknown of yourself, te ao haka is the place for it.

     

    Dive into it. I love diving into my creativity. Just come up with some really, really things I didn't know that I was capable of.

    Āe. Panache? Yeah. Panache?

    Yeah. Panache?

    E toru ngā mea. Me ako. Me mātakitaki. Me rite koe ki te hautai. Mātakihia ngā mea katoa kei mua i a koe, me he hautai, pēnei i a Tarau Porowhā. He nanakia ia.

    Three things. Learn, actually. Yeah. Observe, observe. Be a sponge. Observe everything that comes at you. Be a sponge. Be SpongeBob. He's on.

    Engari, kaua e tū pēnei i a Tarau Porowhā.

    Don't perform like SpongeBob.

    Kaua rawa. Kaua e whakaaro hei Tarau Porowhā. Kaua e whakamā. Kia pono ahau, he tangata whakamā ahau, kāore au e pai ki te kāmera, kia āta kitea mai rānei au. Engari he wā ōna i tō ao, kāore nei ō kōwhiringa. Nō reira, me tuku tō katoa. Kia kaha koe i ō mahi katoa, haka mai, poi mai, waiata mai, katoa mai. Me rite koe ki te hautai, kia mau ki ngā whakaakoranga katoa, ā, ko te mea nui kia ngahau. He ngahau te haka.

     

     

    Ka tūtaki koe ki te tini o te tangata, ka nui nga hononga, ka mutu he ngahau. Koirā te mea nui. Kia ngahau koe, kāore e pēnei me te mahi. Engari ko tō ao noa iho tērā, kāore koe e mōhio e mahi ana koe. Kāore au e mōhio e pēnā ana. Kua noho au i te ao haka mai i taku whānautanga mai.

     

     

     

    E hia kē nei ngā rā, ā, he rā anō tēnei, engari kia kī mai koe me rite au ki te waiata. Kei a au, kua rite au.

     

    Ko aku wheako ērā i te ao haka. Kia rite koe ki a Tarau Porowhā. Mātakitaki, e ako, kia ngahau.

    Don't. But be a SpongeBob in your own mind. Don't be shy because honestly, I'm a real, real shy person as I am. I make you a shy person kare pai te kamera. Spotlight kare pai ki au, but there's going to be a time in your life where you got no choice. So, me tuku tō katoa. Give everything your best shot. Give everything your best shot from haka to poi to singing. Everything. Be a sponge, take all the learning, take all the whakaakoranga, and the main thing I like to do is have fun. Fun. Hakas is fun.

     

    You meet so many people, you make so much relationships and everything that you have and you have fun. That's my main thing. Once you have fun, nothing becomes a job. That just becomes a lifestyle until you that's where- you you don't even know you are just doing it now. I don't even know. I've been in so much kapa since birth. Everywhere.

     

    I can't even count anymore. I just think it's another day, but you tell me to be ready for a song. I got you, I'm ready.

     

    And that's just my experience in hakas. Be SpongeBob. Observe, learn, have fun.

    Ka rawe. He kōrero whakamutunga kōrua?

    Mean. Any final words?

    Tiahuia:

    Tukuna te ao haka ki te ao. Kia kitea, kia ranonga i tōna whānuitanga, i tōna hohonutanga, i tōna māoritanga, i tōna auahatanga, Koia, te ao haka.

     

    He huarahi ātaahua tēnei e ako ai ā tātou tamariki i tō tātou ahurea, ka tahi, i te reo me te Māoritanga anō hoki.

     

    Panache:

    Kia kaha tonu te mahi haka. He ngahau. Koinā.

    Tiahuia:

    Let the world of haka be seen by the world. Let its breadth, its depth, its Māori culture and its creativity be seen and heard. That’s the world of haka.

     

    It's a very beautiful pathway for out tamariki to one, learn our culture. Two, learn our reo and learn what it's like to be māori.

     

    Panache:

    Just keep doing hakas. It's fun. Kōina.

    Kāti rā. Kei aku whānaunga, kei aku teina, e mihi nui ana ki ā kōura. Me te mīharo anō hoki ki ngā pūkenga kua tau ki runga i a kōrua, kua uhia ki runga i a kōrua, nā tō whānau kōrua i whakapakeke ki roto i tēnei ao. Hei kai mā kōrua, hei kai mā ā kōrua ākonga ināianei. 

     

    Nō reira e mihi ana ki a koutou, otirā ki ō maunga, ki ō awa, ki ō taua tātou maunga, tātou awa ā nei rā ā te ao haka, ā, nei rā te Tāhuhu o te Mātauranga e mihi kau ana ki ā kōrua tahi. Tēnā rā kōrua

    Oh, well. My dear relations, my juniors, I want to acknowledge you both. It’s amazing to see the skills you’ve inherited from your family who raised you in this world. This sustains not only you but your students also. 

     

     

    I want to acknowledge you all, your mountains, your rivers, our mountains, our rivers. Thank you from Te Ao Haka and the Ministry of Education.

    Close ups of multiple shots of carvings, Birds eye view pan shot of green hills with a river in the foreground. Low close-up view of a river with trees in the background, followed by multiple shots of more of the same river. Panned shot of the ocean with a cliff island in the middle. A close up of a large tree trunk debris on the beach with the same cliff island in the distance. Close up shot of the tree debris trunk where it has snapped. The beach with the ocean in the background with waves breaking on the shore. Close up shot of a carving. Black background screen with the words “Ministry of education, Te Tāhuhu o te Mātauranga” displayed.

    [ Accordion ]

    Birds eye view of a harbour with boats and land on either side with the sun rising in the background. A view of a island in the ocean with a orange glow sky behind it. Close up of waves crashing on the shore with some coastline in the background. A shot of the beach at low tide with a father and son walking in the wet sand with mountain ranges in the distant background. A shot of rocky coastline with 3 people at the edge surf casting into the ocean which leads to a island in the background. A close up on a carving. A pan shot of a Marae, followed by close ups of its carvings then a shot of the carvings entrance to the marae with the marae in the background. Close up images of the entrance carvings. Shots of the iwi waka carving. A shot of the harbour again where you can see boats and houses in the distance. A standalone giant rock with a sculpture of a women at the top of it looking out to the ocean which is in the background. Then a further away shot of the same image which shows more of the back the giant rock sits on. Ngāti Awa appears on the screen as the last image fades to black and then Te Ao Haka pans from the left onto the screen. 

    Te Reo Māori

    Te Reo Pākehā

    Kei aku waka whakatekateka i te ia o te wai koutou kua rangitāmiro mai ki tēnei kaupapa huia kaimanawa. Ko Te Ōkiwa Mclean tēnei, nau mai ki te ao haka. Tēnei rā e kōrero nei tātou ki te mata toki, ki te pū kōrero, ki te mātanga haka o Ngāi Tūhoe ki a Turuhira Hare. Hei tōku kuia, tēnā koe.

    To my canoes that are propelled forward by the flow of the water, you who have come together for this auspicious purpose. This is Te Ōkiwa Mclean and welcome to Te Ao Haka. We are here talking with the head judge, spokesperson and exponent of haka from the tribe of Tūhoe, Turuhira Hare. My beloved elder, greetings.

    Kia ora

    Hello

    Heoi anō, pātai tuatahi, kia ruku, kia hoki rā ki te orokohanga mai o tō tipuranga i roto i te ao haka, ā, i tīmata mai tō ruku ki te ao haka i hea?

    Let’s begin, first question, let’s go back and explore your origins, your upbringing in the haka world – where did your exploration of the haka world begin?

    I whānau mai au, i pakeke mai au i roto i te whārua o Ruātoki. Kaua au e kōrero atu nō tēhea tau, kei kīia ahau kua kuia rā. Engari, i ērā wā, kāre he whakataetae kapa haka. Engari, ko ngā kaupapa ia, he haere ki ngā whakanuitanga, ki ngā huihuinga, pērā te āhua o te kapa haka o Ruātoki.

    I was born and grew up in the Ruātoki valley. I will not divulge which year because I do not want to confess that I have aged. However, in those times, there were no Māori performing arts competitions. But instead, the Ruātoki performing troupe attended celebrations and gatherings.

    Nō ngā tau rima tekau i whānau mai te kapa haka o Ruātoki, nō reira, ka whakauru atu au ki ngā parakatihi a Ruātoki i ngā tau ono tekau, te tīmatanga o ngā tau ono tekau, nā te mea, i tērā wā, whai wāhi atu ana tāku pāpā, tāku matua, koia tētahi o ngā kaiako i tērā wā.

    The Ruātoki kapa haka was born in the 50s so I started attending the Ruātoki practices during the 60s, at the beginning of the 60s, because at that time, my father was involved, he was one of the tutors of that time.

    Ko ngā whakataetae o Mataatua i taua wā rā, ko ‘Mahara Ia’, koirā ngā whakataetae. Engari, tū ai ērā whakataetae ki roto o Tauranga Moana.

    The Mataatua competition of that time was called ‘Mahara Ia’, that was the competition. But that competition was held in the Tauranga Moana district.

    Nō reira, ka roa te wā ka kaha te pāngia te māuiui o taku pāpā, ka makere mai a ia hei kaiako, ka tū ko Tīkina mā. Engari, i reira ngā whakawhitiwhitihanga o ngā kapa haka o Ruātoki ara ko Tāwera, he wairua pai i ērā wā.

    So, over time my father became ill, and he relinquished his position as a tutor and was replaced by Tīkina and others. However, there were interchanges between the performing troupes of Ruātoki and Tāwera, there were good spirits at that time.

    Tōku tīmatanga i roto i te kapa haka tata pea tekau mā rua taku pakeke.  E haere ana te kapa haka o Ruātoki ki Ākarana. I reira te Anglican Māori Youth Centre i raro i te mana o Kīngi Ihaka. Kua wareware au i hea tērā wāhi, engari i haere te kapa haka o Ruātoki ki reira. Ana, e parakatihi ana rātou, ka haere au ki ngā parakatihi, tekau mā rua taku pakeke. 

    When I began performing haka, I was nearly 12 years old. Ruātoki was traveling to Auckland. The Anglican Māori Youth Centre was there under the auspices of Kīngi Ihaka. I’ve forgotten where that place was, but the Ruātoki haka troupe was going there. So, they were practicing, I went to the practices, and I was 12 years old.

    Ka haria au e ngā kuia rā, kāore wāku pākeke i haere kua kaha rawa tana mate. I reira ka haka mātou i te Anglican Youth Centre and then ka haria..koirā taku taenga tuatahi ki te Unga Waka, mīharo au ki tērā wāhi.

    I was taken by the elderly women, my elder didn’t go because they were severely impacted by their illness. We performed at the Anglican Youth Centre then we were taken…that was my first visit to Unga Waka, I was amazed by that area.

    Kia maumahara, i haere atu mai Ruātoki kāre he rama o ngā rori, karekau he motukā, karekau he aha. Ko te pōuriuri, i haere atu mai i te pōuriuri ki te ao mārama, ka mīharo ki te āhua o Tāmaki. Engari, koirā tāku tūnga tuatahi, he whakangahau noa iho taku mārama ki tērā.

    Let’s remember, we came from Ruātoki where there weren’t any streetlamps, no cars, there was absolutely nothing. We went from darkness to light, amazed by Auckland’s appearance. Nevertheless, that was my first stand, it was merely for entertainment, that’s what I understood.

    Ka whakauru atu rā ki roto i ngā whakataetae a Mahara Ia, kaha a Ruātoki rāua ko Tāwera ki te haere ki te tautoko i ngā whakataetae o Mahara Ia i Tauranga. Kāre i roa, ka mutu ngā whakataetae o Mahara Ia ka kite rā a Te Rangihau me ngā koroua rā, kua āwangawanga rātou ki te reo, ki te koungatanga o te reo o Ngāi Tūhoe, nā te mea, kua tīmata te wehewehe atu o te wā kāinga, o te hunga kāinga ki ngā tāone ki te kimi oranga.

    Ruātoki and Tāwera entered the Mahara Ia competition as strong supporters of attending the Mahara Ia competition in Tauranga. It wasn’t long before the Mahara Ia competition ended. Te Rangihau and other elders saw and became concerned about the language, the level of the language of Tūhoe because home was being left as the home people moved to the towns to pursue a livelihood.

    Kua ara hoki ngā whakawhānaungatanga a Te Tira Hou rāua ko Tūhoe ki Pōneke.  Kua kōrero ngā koroua rā “me pēhea e mau tonu ai te reo me ngā tikanga a Tūhoe”? Nō reira i roto i ērā tau kei te wānanga ngā koroua rā. Whitu tekau mā tahi ka ara Te Hui Ahurei tuatahi ki roto o Te Arawa.

    Kinship groups were also established through Te Tira Hou and Tūhoe ki Pōneke. Those elders discussed “how do we hold onto the language and traditions of Tūhoe?” Consequently, during those years the elders deliberated. In 71 the Tūhoe cultural festival (Te Hui Ahurei) began in Te Arawa.

    Whitu tekau mā rua, ka tīmata te Māori Polynesian Festival. Nō reira, he pakeke ake Te Hui Ahurei ki tēnā i Te Matatini, kotahi tau nei.

    In 72 the Māori Polynesian Festival commenced. And so, Te Hui Ahurei is older than Te Matatini by one year.

    I taua wā rā ko Te Rangihau rāua ko Duncan MacIntyre, kei te whakahaere i ērā kaupapa i roto i te Kāwana, kia ara te Polynesian Festival, nō reira pea e whāngai ana a Te Rangihau i a rātou ki ērā momo kōrero, ki tērā momo mātauranga me tana whāngai, me tana whakahauhau anō i te iwi kia kaha ki te whakaara i Te Hui Ahurei.

    During those times, Te Rangihau and Duncan MacIntyre were leading those initiatives within the Government agencies to launch the Polynesian Festival. Consequently, Te Rangihau was possibly advising them of that kind of information, and his instructions to the tribe to be resolute in initiating Te Hui Ahurei.

    Nō reira, Te Hui Ahurei i te tau whitu tekau mā tahi. Ka aua atu te [wā], kua tīmata Te Hui Ahurei, engari i te mutunga o ngā tau ono tekau, uru mai ki roto i ngā tau whitu tekau, kei te kaha te iwi, tō tāua iwi ki te whakahaere i ngā wānanga, Hānuere ia tau.

    So, Te Hui Ahurei in the year 71. Time passed, Te Hui Ahurei had begun, however at the end of the 60s and coming into the 70s, the tribe was strong, our tribe, in facilitating wānanga each year in January.

    Ia tau ka huihui te iwi mō te kotahi wiki ki te kōrero, ki te wānanga i ngā kaupapa, i ngā tikanga, i ngā tapu, ngā mōteatea, ngā whaikōrero, ngā kōrero, ngā taonga tuku iho. Mātotoru, mārō ana te haere o te iwi.

    Each year the tribe would gather for one week to discuss and deliberate the initiatives, the customs, the restricted, the traditional chants, the oratory, the stories, the gifts that are handed down. The tribe was plentiful and staunch in their participation.

    Kotahi te kōrero o te tikanga i ērā wā. Ka uru mai rā ki roto i Te Hui Ahurei. Kei roto i Te Hui Ahurei, kei te kōrerohia ngā tikanga rā, kei te whakaaraarahia ngā tikanga kia mau ai, nā te mea, ko tōna kaupapa nui, tuatahi, ko te whakawhānaunga, arā ko te whakapapa, ko ngā tikanga kia kore e ngaro, ko te tū a Tūhoe, ko ngā mōteatea a te iwi, ngā haka me te reo. Nā te mea ko te reo katoa hei kawe i ērā kaupapa.

    There was one discussion relating to the customs in those times. They needed to be incorporated into Te Hui Ahurei. Within Te Hui Ahurei, the customs are being discussed, the customs are being resurrected to hold onto, because the primary purpose was first – connectedness through whakapapa, continuity of customs so that they would not be lost, the Tūhoe stance, the traditional chants of the tribe, the haka, and the language. But it was the language that informed all of these things.

    Nō reira, i roto i tērā, kaha a Te Rangihau ki te whakahaere i ngā wānanga, kia ōrite ngā kōrero, ngā whakataunga mō te tū a Tūhoe, kia ōrite. 

    As a result of that, Te Rangihau was unyielding in facilitating workshops, so that the discussions were consistent, and the decisions for the Tūhoe stance were also the same.

    Koirā hoki te mahi a Te Hui Ahurei. Koirā i uru mai ai te wero, te peruperu, te karanga, te rau rākau, te whaikōrero ki roto i ngā mahi whakatūtū o roto i Te Hui Ahurei, nā te mea kia mau ki a ia ngā tikanga, kia taea ai te whakangungu i ngā tamariki, koirā hoki e noho ai tekau mā waru tau nē hā, te pakeke o te kaitātaki, o te kaiwhaikōrero. 

    That was the role of Te Hui Ahurei. That’s why the following were included – the wero, the peruperu, the karanga, the welcome dance, and the whaikōrero – in establishing Te Hui Ahurei we were able to hold onto the customs and train the children. That’s also why 18 is the age requirement for leaders and orators.

    Kia whakangunguhia ngā tamariki rā i te atamira o Te Ahurei, e pakeke ai rātou, taea nei rātou te hoki ki runga o ō rātou marae. Kua ako kēngia mai rā hoki ki roto i ngā parakatihi a ngā kapa haka o Ngāi Tūhoe. Nō reira ko tērā, tērā.

    Let the children be trained on the stage of Te Hui Ahurei, so as they mature, they can return to their marae. Learning has also occurred in the Tūhoe groups’ practices. So that is that.

    I puta hua nui mai wērā ako, nā te mea, ko te kōrero a ngā koroua rā kia hangaia e rātou tērā tūāpapa, tērā mahere rānei mō te whā tekau tau. He nui tonu ngā mea, ngā kōtiro, ngā wāhine i tū hei kaikaranga, hei kaitātaki mō o rātou kapa haka kua hoki ki runga i ngā marae, koirā ā rātou mahi.

    Those teachings bore great success because the discussions of those elders enabled their construction of that foundation and approach for the next forty years. There continue to be many people, girls and women, who perform the karanga or the duties of a female leader for their groups, and when they return to the marae they assume those roles.

    Ko ētahi, te whāwhāhanga atu ki tērā taonga ki te karanga, koirā tonu atu hoki ki te whāwhā atu anō. He pai tērā hei ako, nā te mea he pai ake ki te ako pēnā e tika ana koe ki te karanga arā i roto i Te Ahurei tēnā tō haere ki runga i te marae, ka tapepe tō reo, ka patua koe e te whakamā.

    For those who are pursuing the treasured art of karanga, performing it gives them an opportunity to practice it. That is a great lesson because it is better to learn like that so you do the karanga right at Te Hui Ahurei before you go onto the marae, where your voice might falter, and you become embarrassed. 

    Pērā anō ngā mea whaikōrero. Ko ētahi whaikōrero, tau. Kei te kitea pērā, pēnei i a koe. Kei te kitea koutou tērā koungatanga o te tamariki kaingākau ki wērā taonga e piki ana. Kei te kitea, kua kitea te hunga kāore i te pīrangi ki tērā taonga, te whaikōrero, kua wehe mai i a rātou.

    It’s the same for the male orators. Some that perform are naturals. It’s becoming evident through people like yourself.

    It’s being seen, and it’s been seen that those who do not wish to uphold this treasure, that is whaikōrero (oratory), they’ve lost that skill.

     

    Pērā anō te wero, nē hā? Pērā anō te wero. Nō reira kia kōrerohia pea he aha te kiko o te hui ahurei a Tūhoe ki te ao Māori? Anei tāna kiko. He whāngai i a Ngāi Tūhoe rangatahi kia mārō tana tū.

    That’s still the challenge, right? That’s still the challenge. So let’s speak maybe to the purpose of Te Hui Ahurei of Tūhoe to the Māori world? Here is its purpose. To feed the youth of the Tūhoe tribe so they may thrive.

     

    Ko te tū a te iwi, ngāwari noa iho. Ngāwari noa te tū a Tūhoe. Kāre ia i pīkarikari, kāre ia e pekepeke mō te aha hoki, mō te aha te kaupapa. Engari kua kaha te whakawaihia o Ngāi Tūhoe e ngā pouaka whakaata o roto i o tātou kāinga mai ngā whakataetae nui a te Matatini.

    The stance of the tribe is very simple. It is very simple the stance of Tūhoe. They don’t flit about, they don’t jump for the sake of it, for whatever the reason. However, the tribe of Tūhoe have been enticed by the televisions in our homes because of the grand Te Matatini competition.

    Kua kaingākau atu te tamariki ki te tū a tēnā rōpū, a tēnā rōpū, ko te hokihanga mai ki Te Ahurei kua kite koe i te peke ā mea ki roto i tērā, kua tīkina atu o tētahi wāhanga o tēnā kapa, o tēnā kapa, o tēnā kapa. Kua whakatūhoehia ngā tamariki rā, te hokihanga mai ki te hui ahurei, tere te kite atu i te kanohi koi. 

    The children are enthralled by the styles of different groups. And when they return to Te Hui Ahurei you see someone jump, or someone adopt an element from another team. The children have Tūhoe-fied material for their return to Te Hui Ahurei, and a sharp eye quickly sees that.

    A, kua haere tēnei ki te tiki taonga mana mai i ētahi atu o ngā tīma. Kua tarai ki te whakatūhoe i tā rātou tū. Kāre tērā e pai. Ehara pea te hui ahurei mō te whakapirihanga mai i ngā taonga a te Matatini ki roto i te hui ahurei. Waiho atu ērā ki reira.

    And so that one has gone to acquire a treasure for them from another group. They have attempted to Tūhoe-fy their stance. That isn’t good. The Ahurei is probably not for adapting other styles from Te Matatini for Te Hui Ahurei. Leave those there.

    Engari wēnei whakaaraara Tūhoe hia ako nei, kia mārō te whakatū whakaaraara Tūhoe i te iwi me ngā tamariki nā te mea, ko ngā tamariki kātahi tonu ka whānau atu, kua eke hoki te hui ahurei ki tōna whā tekau, kua rima tekau tau ineinā.

    However, these eager Tūhoe learners need to understand that there is a need for Tūhoe determination for the tribe and the children who have just been born. Te Hui Ahurei has exceeded its 40 years; it’s actually been 50 years.

    Ko mātou aua tamariki akongia e ō koutou kuia me ō koutou koroua. Ko mātou ō koutou pākeke ineinā kei te hanga i te ahunga whakamua o Te Hui Ahurei a Tūhoe mo tōna whā tekau tau. Nō reira i roto i te rua tekau tau ka noho ko koutou.

    We were those children that were taught by our elders. We are your elders today, crafting the way forward for Te Hui Ahurei of Tūhoe for its fortieth year. And so, within the next 20 years it will become your responsibility.

    Na, kua ruku tāua ki roto i te orokohanga mai o tō tipuranga i roto i te haka. A, kei te ahu pēhea ki ō whakaaro te tū a Tūhoe i ēnei rā nei?

    So, we’ve explored the origin of your upbringing in haka. So, how, in your opinion, is the Tūhoe style progressing these days?

    Te tū a Tūhoe i ēnei rā nei. Kua kaha te whakauru mai o te rangatahi Tūhoe ki roto i o rātou kapa te tū a ngā kapa o waho, a iwi kē. Kāore aku whakahē ki tērā engari kaua mō Te Ahurei, kaua e haria mai ki Te Ahurei. 

    The stance of Tūhoe these days. The youth of Tūhoe are enthusiastically introducing into their group’s styles from external groups or other tribes. I have no disagreements with that but it’s not for Te Hui Ahurei, don’t bring it to Te Hui Ahurei.

    Hiahia a Ngāi Tūhoe ki te pupuhi au mo tēnei kōrero, tatari rātou kia mate au. Engari, nā te mea he kaupapa kē to Te Ahurei, he kaupapa kē. Kāore he maunga o reira. Ko te maunga teitei katoa o te Matatini ko te tūnga tuatahi, ko te wikitōriatanga o roto i ngā whakataetae o Te Matatini

    The people of Tūhoe will want to shoot me for this – they can wait until I die. But, because Te Hui Ahurei has its own purpose, and so we must keep it separate. There is no mountain there. The highest pinnacle at Te Matatini is first place, it’s being victorious at the Matatini competition.

    Ko te maunga nui o Te Ahurei, ko te mau ōna tikanga me tana tū. Koirā te wikitōriatanga, tuatahi. Tuarua mai ko te wikitōria ki ngā whakataetae o Te Ahurei. Engari ko te tū a Tūhoe i ēnei rā nei, he ātaahua nā te mea pēnā ki te titiro i ngā ripene o ngā tau whitu tekau, gard, ka aroha kē. 

    The ultimate pinnacle at Te Hui Ahurei is holding onto its traditions and its stance. Second to that is the victory of winning the Ahurei competition. However, the stance of Tūhoe of today is beautiful because, if the recordings of the 70s are analysed, gard, how sad.

     

    Whakamā ana kē te kite atu ko mātou aua tamariki rā. Pērā te tū a te iwi tae mai ki tēnei rā nei, kua kaha ngā tamariki ki te whakaihi, ki te whakaniko ake pea ki to rātou tironga whānui, tironga ahunga whakamua me pēhea te tū a Tūhoe. Kāre hoki āku whakahē ki tērā, engari ko tāku i roto I ngā whakanikotanga i tā rātou, te tū hou a Ngāi Tūhoe kia uru tonu te mana me te mauri Tūhoe ki roto i te tū.

    It’s embarrassing to see that we were those children. That has been the stance of the tribe up to today. The children have strongly invigorated, and maybe enriched their broad view and forward direction to determine the stance of Tūhoe. I am not disagreeing with that, however I believe that their enrichment resulted in a new stance that still needs the authority and essence of Tūhoe in the delivery of that style. 

    Pēhea tērā tū a tōna wā nei, e aua. Engari kei a koutou tērā. Mā koutou tērā hei whakatūpato, hei whakakanohi mai, hei whakatinana mai, e mōhio ai koutou taku tū Tūhoe tuatahi, ko taku whakaniko i muri atu.

    What will that stance look like over time, I don’t know. That’s up to you. You will all provide caution, to demonstrate and embody, so you all know that my Tūhoe stance is paramount, and any embellishments come after.

    Āe. I kōrero tāua i mua rā mō te. i kī koe i kite ana kua tāhawahawatia te haka e ngā whakaawenga ō waho, tēnā kōrerotia mai, he aha ai e tāhawahawatia ai te tū o te ao haka i ēnei rā nei?

    Yes. We spoke earlier about. You said that haka has been negatively influenced by external influences. Explain that, why has the stance of the haka world of today been negatively influenced?

    Ko tērā pea, anei pea he kōrero ngāwari noa iho te whakamārama i tērā. E kī ana ngā pākeke ko te tikanga, ka rerekē te tikanga ia rua tekau tau. Koirā te kōrero. Na, mōhio koe he iwi tikanga tātou. Ko ngā kaupapa katoa o roto i a Ngāi Tūhoe ko te tikanga kei te kawe.

    Maybe that’s it, here's a story that could possibly describe that easily. The elders would say that the customs will change every 20 years. That was what they maintained. Now, you know that we are a people of custom. All affairs within the tribe of Tūhoe are guided by custom.

    Nō reira ka rerekē te tikanga ia rua tekau tau. Ko te nuinga o ngā tikanga rā ka whakamoehia, he uaua rawa. And ko ngā tikanga e whakarerekēhia ana, nā te mea ko te huri o te ao, ko te whakaaro o te tangata, ko te whakapono o te tangata ka rerekē.

    Hence the traditions change every 20 years. Most of those customs have been retired due to their complexity. And the customs that are being changed are due to the changing world, and the change in people’s perceptions and beliefs.

    Pērā anō pea tēnā āhuatanga mō te ao kapa. Āe me rerekē nā te mea whakataetae atu, whakataetae atu ia tau kāre he take o tō hoki atu me tō āhua, me tō tū mai te tau o mua atu ki te tau o muri mai

    Perhaps that approach could be applied to the haka world. Yes, it must be different because competition after competition, year after year –you can’t return with the same approach or style that you went with in the years prior.

    Nā te mea ki te kore koe e haere atu me o kariri, me to pū hurihuri ki te whakatumatuma i ngā kaiwhakawā, kāre koe i eke ki te taumata teitei. Ko te taniwha o te whakataetae tērā. Koia. Ko taua taniwha rā kei te whakapērā i te ao haka.

    Because if you don’t go with your bullets and your gatling gun to intimidate the judges, you will make it to the top spots. That is the ugly truth of competition. That’s it. That monster is changing the world of haka.

    Na, taka mai ki tēnei pepa hou kua whakauruhia ki roto i te marautanga ako o tēnei whenua, arā ko te ao haka tērā. Engari i mua i te ruku ki tēnā kaupapa kia hoki atu tāua ki tō whai wāhinga ki te MPA i roto i ngā tau tuatahi, a tēnā kōrerotia mai tērā.

    Now, coming to this new paper that has been included in the country’s new curriculum, that is Te Ao Haka. But, before delving into that subject could we double back to discuss the role you played in MPA in the initial years. Talk to me about that.

    MPA. I te orokohanga mai o te MPA nā te mea, ehara i te NCEA i te akoranga tawhito. Nō ngā, te tīmatanga o ngā tau rua mano i uru mai te NCEA ki roto i ngā kura. I taua wā ka whakaarohia e te NZQA kia whakaarahia, kia hangaia ngā paerewa ako mō te MPA, Māori Performing Arts.

    MPA. The MPA came about because it was not a subject traditionally taught for NCEA. In the early 2000s, NCEA entered into the schools. At that time, NZQA considered establishing and building learning standards for MPA, Māori Performing Arts.

    Ko tētahi pea o ngā tohu nei tīkina e rātou ki te hanga i tērā ko Donna Grant. Nō reira i roto i te whakairotanga i ērā paerewa, i roto i te whakaruruhau o te MPA me te whakaruruhau o te reo Māori i roto i a NZQA ko Te Wharehuia tētahi i reira

    One of the experts they invited to develop it was Donna Grant. So, in designing the MPA standards and Māori language standards within NZQA, Te Wharehuia was there.

    Ka hangaia ngā paerewa akoranga, ko te haka, te poi, te mōteatea, te waiata ā-ringa me te aha? E rima pea aua paerewa ako. I muri mai ko te haka pōhiri ā-wahine nei. Ka hangaia, ka noho au ki roto i te kāhui whakamāori i ngā paerewa ako rā.

    The learning standards were developed for the haka, the poi, the traditional chant, the action song and what else? There were maybe 5 learning standards. After those came the women’s welcome haka. They were developed and I was part of the collective that translated those learning standards.

    Ka tirohia anō i taua wā rā pēnā kei te eke pū, kei te uru mai te MPA rā ki te āwhina i ngā tamariki Māori kia eke ai i roto i te ao mātauranga. Whakapono au āe, ka eke.

    At that time, MPA was reviewed to determine whether it was successful and if the inclusion supported Māori children to achieve in the education world. I believe yes, it was successful.

    Ko te wāhi whaiwhaihia atu au, nō reira kia maumahara kua tīmata kē ngā whakataetae ā-rohe, ā-motu o ngā kura tuarua. Nō reira ko ngā whakangungutanga i ngā tamariki ki te haka, te rawe tērā. 

    The section that I am was involved in, remembering that the regional and national secondary competitions had already begun, was strengthening the children in haka. That was awesome.

    Ko te wāhanga mahi ā-ringa tērā, kei te pai tērā nā te mea kei te whakangunguhia ngā tamariki i roto i a rātou noho kapa, noho marae mo ā rātou whakataetae ā-rohe, ā-motu.

    The practicum aspect is fine because the children are being trained at their team’s trainings or at their marae for their regional and national competitions.

    Ko ngā kura pea karekau i whakauru atu ana ki roto i ngā whakataetae koirā ngā kura i te āhua waimate i roto i ngā kaupapa nei. Ko au noa iho tēnei o Ruātoki, kāre noa au e tino aro atu ki te wāhanga mahi ā-ringa, te practicum, nā te mea kei te haka ra hoki ngā tamariki i ngā wā katoa. 

    The schools that do not enter the competitions are possibly those that are despondent in this subject matter. Coming from my Ruātoki perspective, I don’t really focus on the practicum because children are doing haka all the time.

    Ko Te Hui Ahurei tēnā, ko Ngā Rangitāiki tēnā. Kei te hoki ngā tamariki rā ki runga i ō rātou marae. Kei te mōhio, kei te mārama ngā tamariki ki tā rātou tū haka. Ko te wāhanga i whaia atu e au i roto i te Māori Performing Arts mai taua wā rā ki nāianei, ko te taha tuhi -

    That’s Te Hui Ahurei, it is also Rangitāiki. Those children are returning to their marae. The children know and are aware of their haka style. The area that I pursued in Māori Performing Arts from that time until now is the written component.

    Nā te mea kei reira te mātauranga, kei roto kē i te taha tuhi. Pēnā kei te whai i te mātauranga, i te koungatanga o te mātauranga kia whakatōhia ki roto i ngā tamariki. Kei reira kē te tapu me te niwhaniwhatanga o te Māori Performing Arts.

    Because that is where the knowledge is, within the written component. If the pursuits are educational, then the excellence of education can be instilled into the children. That’s actually where the sanctity and truculence of MPA is.

    He aha ai? Nā te mea ki te titiro tātou, i runga tēnei i āku mahi me āku tamariki, ko te rangahautanga, ko tētahi wāhanga o te wāhanga tuhi he rangahau i ngā mōteatea. He titiro, he aha te tikanga, he aha te pūtakenga o ngā mōteatea i tuhia rā, i titoa rā mai tērā rā ki tēnei rā nei.

    Why? Because if we look, based on my work with my children, research is one section of the writing requirements, researching traditional chants. It’s an exploration of the custom, the origin of the traditional chants that were written, that were composed in those times right up to today.

    Nō reira, e ako i ngā tamariki tuatahi ki te rangahau, he ako i ngā tamariki tuarua ki te hoki whakamuri ki to rātou ake hītori, nā te mea ko ngā mōteatea katoa i tuhia i te wā i tuhia ai, tata iwa tekau paihēneti tōna pono, nā te mea i reira te kaitito, kāre tātou i reira.

    For that reason, the children firstly learn to research, then the children can learn about looking back into their own history. Secondly, because all of the traditional chants were written at the time of the composition, nearly 90% was true, because that’s where the composers were, we weren’t there.

    Nō reira kei te mōhio, nō reira mehemea kimi ana i te pono me te tika o tēnei mea o te mātauranga tawhito, kei roto i ngā mōteatea rā. Pērā i a ‘Whakawairangi’, pērā i a ‘Tiketike Rawa Mai Te Waiwhero’, pērā anō i roto i ngā haka, ka kahu au ki te koha, kei reira hoki te hītori o Ngāi Tūhoe i tana haerehanga ki Ōrākau ki te manaaki i a Ngāti Maniapoto.

    That’s why it is known that if the truth and accuracy of traditional knowledge is being sought, it is within those traditional chants. Just like the song ‘Whakawairangi’, and like ‘Tiketike Rawa Mai Te Waiwhero’, and it’s the same with haka like ‘ka kahu au ki te koha’. That’s where the history of the Tūhoe tribe and their journey to Ōrākau to care for the people of Maniapoto is too. 

    Nō reira koirā te wāhanga o te MPA, uru mai nei ki te ao haka, kaua e ngaro i tēnei reanga kua whakaara nei i a te ao haka. Kaua e ngaro i a rātou tērā, nā te mea kei te pai te wāhanga haka, kei te pai te wāhanga drama.

    So that’s the part of MPA brought into the haka world, so it may not be lost on this generation who have raised the world of haka. That cannot be lost on them, because the section of haka is good, the drama component is good.

    Engari ki te whakarērea tēnei, me taku whakapae, kāre e whakarērea engari kia kaha ki te whakamana nui ake i te wāhanga tuhi, i te wāhanga rangahau. Nā te mea kei te titiro, kua whakamanahia ngā Māori wars i roto i te history.

    However, if this is relinquished, and I assert that it will not be relinquished, the composition and research components require greater recognition because the Māori wars are seen to be recognised within history.

    Anei rā kei roto i o tātou mōteatea, kei roto i ngā haka o tātou koroua. Kua eke pea ki te wā kia taea ēnā kura, kia kaha ngā kura ki te whakawhitiwhiti mātauranga mai i roto i a rātou mōteatea me wa rātou haka tawhito mō ngā kaupapa, mō ngā patunga i te iwi i roto i ngā tau rua rau tau ki muri.

    It is here within our traditional chants, within the dances of our forefathers. The time has come for those schools to be able to transfer knowledge from within their traditional chants and dances for the subjects relating to the violence against the tribe in the 200 years prior.

    Nā te mea i mōteateahia, i mōteateahia i ngā koroua rā. Kaua tātou e whai atu i ngā pakanga Māori o te motu mai ngā tuhinga a ngā pākehā. Whakatairangahia ko ngā haka tawhito, ko ngā manawawera, ko ngā tauparapara a ngā koroua rā.

    Because those forefathers were lamented and mourned. Let us not pursue the national Māori wars from the perspective of the European. Promote the traditional dances, the passionate dances, and the incantations of those forefathers. 

    Ka moumou ngā taonga a o tātou pākeke, a o tātou tīpuna, ka moumou. Nō reira koirā noa iho taku anipā ki a te ao haka. Kia oati mai rātou te hunga e whakaara nei i a te ao haka, kia oati rātou kāre rātou e whakarere i tēnei. Engari kia tairanga i a rātou te māramatanga me te mōhio o ngā tamariki Māori o tēnei wā nei.

    The treasures of our elders and our ancestors will be wasted. That is my only concern with the haka world. The people who are raising the haka world, they should swear that they will not forsake this. However, they must promote the enlightenment and the understanding of the Māori children of these days.

    Ki ō whakaaro ki hea, ma tēnei, ma te ao haka nei e koke, e eke panuku ai te ao haka o ngā tauira, ngā ākonga ki taumata kē?

    In your opinion, will the haka world of the students and learners progress them to new heights?

    Āe. Whakaae au ki tēnei. Whakaae au ki te tironga whānui a te ao haka mo tērā. Mēnā tātou ka titiro, kaua tātou hei whakapae ko te covid kei te whakangoikore i wā tātou tamariki, engari kei te kitea, e kōrerohia ana i te ata tonu nei, i te kōrerohia tērā i runga i a parakuihi.

    Yes. I agree with this. I agree with the broad vision of the haka world. If we look, we cannot not accept that covid is weakening our children, but it's being seen and was discussed this morning on Breakfast.

    Karekau ngā tamariki Māori i te hoki ki te kura, mā te ao haka pea hei kukume i ngā wairua o ngā tamariki rā kia hoki ki te kura. Nā te mea he kaupapa ako tēnei e ngākaunuingia ana e te tamariki Māori. Engari kaua e moumouhia te wā ako ki te haka noa iho. Nē hā?

    Māori children are not returning to school, it's possibly the haka world that can attract the children back to school. It’s because this is a subject that Māori children enjoy. But don’t waste the time just learning haka. Right?

    Kaua e tōia ngā tamariki rā kia hoki ki te kura mō te haka noa iho te kaupapa. Raua atu, tuituihia ngā marautanga katoa ki roto i te ao haka e ora ai a ia.  Mā te ao haka hei tuitui mai ngā kaupapa pūtaiao, ngā kaupapa hangarau, ngā kaupapa hauora. Mā te reo hei ako nā te tuituitanga rā i ngā marautanga ki roto i a ao haka.

    Don’t entice children back to schools just for haka. In addition, combine all of the curricula into the world of haka so that it may live. Let the haka world combine the science subjects, technology, and health. Let the Māori language teach the combination of curricula within the haka world.

    Na, he pūkenga koe e kui i roto i te tito waiata, te mōteatea, te tikanga. Ko koe hoki tērā i utaina ki te manukura wahine i Te Matatini i te tau rua mano mā iwa. He aha ngā mātāpono hei kawe mā te manukura wahine, mā te ringa tito anō hoki? 

    Now, you are a stalwart in composing songs, the traditional chant, and the customary practices. You were crowned best female leader of Te Matatini in the year 2009. What are the principles for prospective female leaders and song composers?

    Ko te manukura wahine, ko te taonga nui hei kawe mā te manukura wahine, ko te whakaiti. Koirā. Kāre he kiko mō te manukura wahine ki te kore tana kapa. Mā te toru tekau mā iwa tāngata e kī ai koe, he manukura wahine koe. Kaua ma tōu kaha anake, kao. 

    The female leader – the primary responsibility for the female leader to carry is humility. That’s it. There is no role for the female leader without their group. It is by the affirmation of 39 people that you are a female leader. Not by your own gusto, no.

    Nō reira koirā te taonga nui mō te manukura wahine, whakaiti. Kāre hoki koe e haere ki runga i te atamira ki te patu i te wairua o tō kapa haka. Ki te whakahauhau, ki te whakatumatuma i a rātou mo te kore kiko noa iho kia kitea noa ihongia mai ko Turuhira tēnei. Kao.

    So that is the biggest responsibility for the female leader – humility. You should also not go onto the stage to hurt the spirit of your performing group. Nor is it to dictate, to traumatise them for no reason, so it can be seen that this is Turuhira here. No.

    Ko tāu mahi he awhi i te mana, i te ihi kia puta mai i tō kapa. Koirā noa iho. Pēnā he pūkenga i tua atu i tērā e aua. Kāre au i te mōhio.

    Your role is to support the mana and energy that is produced by your team. That’s all. Whether there are other skills beyond that, I’m unsure. I don’t know.

    Kia kōrero tāua mo te waiata ā-ringa a Tūhoe, te tū hoki a Tūhoe i roto i ngā mahi ā-ringa. I te mea āe, ētahi iwi kāre i te mōhio ki tō tāua tū, he aha ngā tikanga ā-ringa i te mea mārama ana tāua ka noho noa iho a Tūhoe i roto i te pouaka.  Kāore e whānui, e whārahi, e kūwhera rānei ngā waewae nō reira āe, whakamāramatia mai ngā mahi waiata ā-ringa ngahau a Ngāi Tūhoe.

    Let’s talk about the action song of Tūhoe and the stance of Tūhoe in action songs. Because yes, some tribes do not know about our stance and the associated customs, but we both know that Tūhoe remains in the box. Not too far, not too broad, or that legs open so yes, explain the Tūhoe people’s approach to the action song.

    He iwi ngahau a Tūhoe ki te haka. Engari pea ko te rerekētanga o te tū a ngā wāhine o Tūhoe, karekau e whānui te rere o āna ringa, karekau e te tawhiti atu i tāna tinana te rere o āna ringa. E kī ana a Te Rangihau “ngāwari noa iho ngā ringa. [Actions demonstrated] Ki konei, ki korā, ki konei, korā kua rahi.”

    Tūhoe is a tribe that is entertaining in haka. However, the difference in stance of the Tūhoe women is probably the use of their arms is not wide – the arms do not stray too far from the body. According to Te Rangihau, “the actions are simple”. Here, there, back here, over there and that is sufficient.

    Nō reira koirā pea te tū a Tūhoe engari kei roto pea i te ariā o te kanohi e whakaatu ana i tōna tau, i tōna mauri tau ki roto i tōna angitu ki te tū. Āe, rongo ahau i te nuinga o te iwi Māori e kī ana “āe he maroke te tū a Tūhoe.” Me te tika nē hā, maroke kē. Boring as.

    So that is probably the stance of Tūhoe. But it’s possibly within the emotion of the face that their poise and composedness is demonstrated in their privilege to perform. Yes, I hear many Māori people that are saying “yes the stance of Tūhoe is boring”. And how correct that is, right? Dry as. Boring as.

    Koirā a Tūhoe. Koirā pea e kī ai ko Tūhoe tēnei. I kī mai ā, ko wai te tangata i kī mai? “Pai ki au te tū a Te Karu. Anō nei tōna tū tawhito.” I roto i au anō ka mea au “oh ka pai” nā te mea nōu ō whakaaro, ka pai. Engari ko te, koirā hoki e kī ai kaua e whānui rawa, he nui ngā ako tawhito nei.

    That’s Tūhoe. That’s why it is said that this is Tūhoe. It was said by, who is the person that said it? “I admire the stance of Te Karu. It’s like the stance of old.” I would say to myself “oh good” because you have your opinions, and that’s good. However, that’s also why I say don’t go too broad, there are plenty of these traditional learnings.

    Kaua e whānui rawa te puta o ngā ringa o Ngāi Tūhoe, kaua e hiki tēnei o ngā ringa [action demonstrated] nā te mea koinei te ringa koko hamuti. Koirā noa iho.

    Do not throw your arms out wide, and don’t lift this arm because it is used to scoop feces. That’s it.

    Koinei kē te ringa koko hamuti. Anei te ringa mauri o te wahine haka o Ngāi Tūhoe. Koinei hoki te ringa mau i te mauri o te patu. Koirā e kore rā e hiki i te ringa, o tēnei o ngā ringa o Ngāi Tūhoe. 

    This is actually the hand that scoops feces. Here is the primary arm of the woman performer of the Tūhoe tribe. This is also the hand that gives life to the patu (club). That is why Tūhoe does not lift this arm.

    Pērā anō te takahi o te waewae. Karekau. Ki runga, ki raro, ki runga. karekau ki ngā taha, ki runga, ki raro boring as but koirā.

    It’s the same with the stamping of the foot. There is none. Up, down. Never to the sides – up, down, boring as but that’s it.

    And ko te tau ki kahawa a Te Hokowhitu a Tū, taukē ki a rātou ki te tū.

     

    Whakaaro au, “oh me pērā anō au kia hoki atu, but ka hoki pai nē hā? Koirā te angitutanga o tā rātou tū, koinei ta Tūhoe, tū maroke, engari he tau. Ātaahua.

    Te Hokowhitu a Tū - they’re awesome when they perform.

     

    I thought “oh I need to be like that to return, but return strong right? That’s what was successful about their performance, this is like Tūhoe, boring performance, but it’s composed. Beautiful.

    Te tū o mauri tau, he aha tērā?

    A composed stance, what is that?

    Kaua e pītauitaui, kaua e pītauitaui noa iho te tinana.  Kaua e hurihuri heahea noa iho te māhunga mo te kore kiko noa iho. Pēnā kei te mahi tika, hāngai whakamua, e whai rānei o ringa. Koirā. Kaua hoki i kopi o to ringa.

    Do not just bend the body. Do not turn your head aimlessly for no reason. If it is done correctly, focus forward, or follow your hands. That’s it. Don’t close your hand either.

    Ka kitea te mauri tau o te kaihaka pēnā kei te mārama te kaiako me pēhea te whakaako i a rātou, ki tā rātou tū. Ka kitea te memeha o te kaiako, ka whakaatu ana mai hoki e ana kaihaka pēnā kāre ia i te mōhio ki te tū.  Nō reira ko ērā mea, ērā ako, koirā e wānanga rā te iwi ia rua tau mō te tū kia kore ai ia e ngaro.

    The poise of the performer is seen if the tutor knows how to teach them about their stance.The weakness of the tutor is seen when it is demonstrated by their performers – maybe they don’t know how to perform. So those things, those learnings, are the tribe’s topics of deliberation every 2 years regarding the stance so it may not be lost.

    I roto i āu ngā titonga, he aha ngā mātāpono ka whāia e koe, otirā, kei hea, ka toro koe ki hea ki te tiki, e whai whakaawenga ai koe ki te tito?

    Within your own compositions, what are the principles that you apply, where do you reach out to acquire such knowledge or to find inspiration for you to compose?

    Ko te nuinga o ngā kaupapa ka tito au, he pai ki ahau te tito waiata tangi. Pai ki au wērā momo titonga. Kua toru ngā mōteatea kua titoa e au. Tuatahi mō te reo, moumou taima noa iho nei, wērā whakaakiaki i te reo.

    Of the many subjects that I compose about, I like to compose songs of lament. I like those types of compositions. I have composed 3 traditional chants. The first about the language, a mere waste of time, those encouragements for the language.

    Mō te P. Mō tērā momo tarutaru, ā, mō Ngā Pou o te Tau o te hāhi Ringatū. Koirā ngā kaupapa mōteatea kua tuhia e au. Engari pea ko te ao o te kaitito, ngāwari noa iho tērā. Kia ngāwari noa iho ngā kupu.

    About P. About that type of drug, and one about the Pou o te Tau of the Ringatū faith. Those were the topics of traditional chants that were composed by me. Perhaps the world of the composer is very easy. The words should be easy.

    Kia ū ngā kupu ki roto i te hinengaro me te whatumanawa o te kaiwhakarongo, o te kaiwaiata. Ki te hākerekere, hākorokorohia mai ngā kupu, ka puta maroke mai te wairua o te reo rā. Ka puta wairua mai te kaupapa o te titonga rā.

    So, the words may remain in the mind and heart of the listener and the singer. If the words are despondent or glum, the projection of the spirit of that language is dry. The subject of that composition is projected with spirit.

    Engari ki te hangaia ngā kupu ō roto mai o te aroha, ō roto mai rānei o te whakangahau he aha tō kaupapa, ki te hangaia mai, mai koneki, kaua mai konei, ka rongohia te reka

    However, if the words are created from love, or for entertainment, what your subject that is to be constructed from here, not there, the sweetness will be heard.

    Ka kaingākauhia mai e te tangata engari kia māmā noa iho ngā kupu. Kāre au e kite i te hua o te tiki atu i ngā kupu ka whiri kē nei tō arero ki te taraihana kia tutuki pai i a koe. 

    The people will appreciate it, but the words need to be easy. I do not see the value in taking words that tie your tongue when you’re trying to do well.

    He tohunga anō mō ērā momo kupu, kāre au te kī “kauwaka”, engari he tohunga anō mō tērā momo tangata tuhi. Engari pai ki au ki te tiki atu, kia kapoa mai taku wairua, kia kapoa atu au te wairua o te kaiwhakarongo mā roto mai i ngā kupu, ka hangaia, nā te mea he aha te mea nui ko te kaupapa o te tuhi, ko tō mārama rānei ki te tuhi reo Māori?

    There is a master for those words, I’m not saying “don’t”, but there is a place for those people’s kinds of writings. Nevertheless, I like to include that so that my spirit and the spirit of the listener is captivated by the words that are used because what is the most important thing about composing – the subject of the writing or your understanding of writing the Māori language?

    Na, kia kōrero tāua he nui ngā tamariki Māori kāre i te tino whakapono he wāriu, he uara rānei tō te haka, ā, ko te haka te pata me te paraoa mōu. He aha ētahi kupu ki a rātou? Ka taea ngā taumata katoa aye, e te ao haka.

    So – let’s talk about the many Māori children that don’t truly believe that there is value or benefit in haka, and yet, haka is your bread and butter. What are some words for them? All heights are achievable through haka.

    Ko wērā momo tamariki, ka aroha au ki a rātou. Nā te mea, ehara i te mea ka ngaro te haka i roto i te tamaiti. Pakeke haka mai ngā Māori katoa o tēnei motu. Whānau haka mai te Māori.

    I feel sorry for those children. Because it's not as though the haka will be lost in the child. All Māori of this land grew up with haka. Māori families are born into haka.

    Pēnā kāre koe i whānau haka mai, oh well, kei te raruraru o pākeke. Engari kei roto tonu pēnei i te reo nei. Kei roto te reo i tēnā, i tēnā, i tēnā me te haka. Ko te mahi kē he whakakā i te rama kia puta.

    If you were not born with haka, oh well, your elders were plagued. However, it’s still within, just like the language. The language is in that one and that one and that one like haka. The job is actually to fire the torch so that it may appear.

    Puta ana tērā, rongo ana te tamaiti te wairua o te reka me te pai o te haka, ka huri mai a ia ki te whakapono ki te haka. Ko te hunga ka whiuwhiu kupu hahani mō te haka, kāre he wāriu, kāre he oranga o roto, ka haramai te wā, ka haramai te wā.

    Once that has appeared, the child will feel the spirit, and the sweetness and goodness of haka – they will turn to believe in haka. The people who throw ill words about haka – there is no value, nor is there a livelihood – the time will come, the time will come.

    Engari kia tere tonu tātou ki te awhi i a rātou. Ngā mea kei roto i ngā tāone kāore nei e kite i tērā wāriu, toro atu ngā ringa, kī atu “haramai” kia rongo tō wairua i tēnei āhua. Nā te mea ka rongo rātou.

    But we need to be quick to support them. Those within the towns that are not seeing the value, offer hands and say “welcome so that your spirit can feel this notion”. Because they will feel it.

    Ko ngā toto hoki, ko te whakapapa hoki, ko te wairua o ngā koroua rā. Mā tērā hei whakaohooho te mea rā i roto i a rātou. Pēnā he hunga kāre e whakapono, kei te pai tērā. He huarahi atu anō mā rātou hei whai. Kei te pai. Kāre au e whiuwhiu kupu hahani mō rātou

    It’s in the blood too, and the genealogy – it’s the spirit of those forefathers. Let those aspects awaken the desire within them. If there are people who do not believe, that’s ok. There’s another pathway for them to follow. That’s ok. I’m not going to throw ill-feelings toward them.

    He aha te taera tū poi a Ngāi Tūhoe?

    What is the style of poi for the people of Tūhoe?

    Auē taukiri ē i tēnā pātai hoki. Kei te mōhio tonu koe nōu te iwi koretake katoa ki te poi. Kei te mōhio tonu tātou mutunga mai nei, kāre au i kōrero mō te poi. Whakamā katoa au te tiro atu ngā kapa haka o Tūhoe, ‘oh gard.’

    Oh dear what a question that is. You do know that your tribe is the most useless of all at the poi. We all know that – completely useless – I am not speaking about the poi. I am completely embarrassed by looking at the Tūhoe groups, ‘oh gard’.

    Engari, te reanga i a Tīkina mā ka pēnei au, [poi demonstration] tahi, ka pao taku poi ki runga i tō māhunga, ki tēnei ō pakihiwi, kua hoki ki tēnei. Ka mate a Tīkina ka riro ko au te kaiako i a Te Karu, karekau e tino rerekē ake ngā ringaringa rā. 

    However, the generation of Tīkina and co, I would say [poi demonstration] and then the poi will hit your head, to this shoulder, and then back again. When Tīkina died, I became the tutor of Te Karu, and those movements didn’t change much.

    E kore tonu hoki e mōhio. Engari mai taua whā tekau tau ki muri tae noa mai ki te wā nei, ā kua tau ngā tamariki o Tūhoe ki te poi. Te haerehanga o Te Karu ki Te Matatini pea, whakaaro au ‘kāore tēnei i te pai.’ Kua hōhā katoa au he maroke nō Te Karu, nō ngā tīma o Tūhoe ki te poi, me tiki au ko Tūhoe, Tūhoe mokopuna nei. 

    It will also never be known. However, since about forty years ago right up till now, the children of Tūhoe have become refined at the poi. When Te Karu went to Te Matatini, I thought ‘this is not good’. I’m annoyed at how dry Te Karu and all Tūhoe teams are at the poi. I will get Tūhoe – the Tūhoe grandchildren.

    “Hoki mai koe ki te ako i a Te Karu ki te poi.” Te haramaihanga o tērā [action demonstration] ana, tika rere te poi. Ka mea “Kāre pea au i tino pīrangi kia pērā rawa te rere o te poi.”

    “Come back to teach Te Karu how to poi”. The welcoming of that one [action demonstrating], so the poi is correct. It was said “I’m probably not wanting the flight of the poi to be like that”.

    Engari i te otihanga ō ngā ringa, te whakairohanga o Tūhoe i ngā ringa rā, te ātaahua. Engari kua mau ki ngā tamariki rā tērā hanganga o te poi nā te pouaka whakaata i roto i o tātou kāinga. Engari kia pātai mai koe mō tō iwi ki te poi, kao, mutunga mai o te koretake.

    But at the end of the actions, the creation of those actions by Tūhoe were just beautiful. However, the children have learned those poi figures by watching the television in their homes. However, if you ask me about your iwi and the poi, no, the epitome of uselessness.

    Pēhea te taha auaha, he aha te mea nui o te kuhunga mai o te taha auaha ki te tū a Tūhoe?

    How about the creative side, is it important to include the creative side to the stance of Tūhoe?

    Tērā pea, he aha he tauira ma tāua mō tēnei kaupapa?

    Possibly. What is an example of this for the discussion?

    I kōrero tāua mo te tōtanga, mo ētahi kapa o Tūhoe e tō ana i ngā tāera o rāwaho. He aha te take? Kei hea te waikanaetanga, te ‘silver lining’ i waenganui i te tikanga me te auaha?

    We spoke about the dragging over, for some Tūhoe groups that are pulling over the styles from outside. What’s the reason? Where is the balance, the ‘silver lining’ between custom and creativity?

    I kōrero a Pou i tētahi kōrero, “arā te marautanga, te whakaeke, te whakawātea, te poi, te waiata ā-ringa. Waiho tērā marautanga o te ao, o ngā whakataetae rā, tukuna ngā wairua o ngā tamariki kia rere i te hanga i wā rātou e hiahia ana rātou ki roto i wā rātou mahi.

    Pou made a statement “that is the curriculum – the entrance, the exit, the poi, the action song. Leave that strategy of the competition world. Let the spirit of the children soar so they can build their desires in the work that they do.

    Engari anō ngā wāhanga tikanga. Whakatapuhia wērā, whakatawhitohia wērā.“ Nō reira kei reira tonu te waikanaetanga rā. A konei, āe, ka taea e koe te whakaahu whakamua, engari a konei kia tapu wēnei. 

    But not the tikanga areas. Restrict those, traditionalize those.”

    So, the potential for balance is there. Here, yes, you can carve the pathway forward, except for these – these are restricted.

    Nō reira, kāore anō pea ngā kapa a Tūhoe kia whakamātautau noa i te tapu o ngā tikanga rā ka takahuri haere engari anō tēnei wāhanga o te marautanga rā. Rawa atu.

    So, the Tūhoe groups have not yet tested the restrictions of those customs. There is gradual change except for this aspect of that strategy. Put it in.

    I roto i to whakaako i te kapa haka o Te Karu, Te Wharekura o Ruātoki, he mea nui rānei te kōrero māori, i te mea he nui ngā kapa haka rāwaho, kāore ko te reo pākehā te reo kawe i a rātou.

    While you were teaching Te Karu and the Wharekura of Ruātoki, was the Māori language a feature because there are many groups that don’t feature it. English is the language of instruction.

    Mō Te Karu, ngā mea kōrero Māori, kāore anō kei te mōhio te kōrero pākehā, nō reira, me kōrero māori ki a rātou i ngā wā katoa. Engari anō ngā tamariki o te kura reo rua, reo rua ki ngā tamariki o te kura, ehara i te mea he kore nō ngā tamariki e mōhio ki te kōrero māori.

    For Te Karu, the people who speak Māori, they don’t know how to speak English, so the Māori language has to be used all of the time for them. Unlike the students from the bilingual unit. The school children are engaged bilingually. It’s not because the children don’t know how to speak Māori.

    I ētahi wā ka kōrero pākehā nā te mea he tere ake te ako me te mau i roto i te reo pākehā. Kāore au e tino whakaae ki te ako i roto i te reo pākehā ahakoa he aha wāku kaupapa mahi.

    Sometimes English is used because it is quicker to teach and understand in English. I don’t really agree to teach in English regardless of what I am teaching.

    He aha kei te ako haerenga, kāre au e hiahia ki te kōrero pākehā, ki te ako i roto i te reo pākehā he kore tonu nōku mōhio ki te kōrero pākehā

    Regardless of what’s being taught I don’t want to talk in English or teach in English because I don’t have a good understanding of the English language.

    I roto i tēnei pepa o te ao haka, ki ō whakaaro he mea nui kia kounga te taha tuhi me te taha tū?

    In this paper Te Ao Haka, in your opinion, is it important that there is excellence in the written and performance components?

    Āe, āe. Me kounga. Kāre i tua atu. Me kounga, me kounga te wāhanga tuhi. Me mārama hoki ngā kaiako pērā ki te poetic license nē hā?

    Yes, yes. It must be excellent. There is no other way. The written component must be excellent. 

    Tutors must also know about things like poetic license, right?

    Nā te mea koirā kē te reo o roto o te ao haka, ehara ko te reo tuhi noa iho nei, ehara ko te reo noa iho e akohia nei i roto i te reo matatini. Poetic license, ko te reo hanga kupu. Hanga kupu mai te hinengaro kia takoto pai ki runga i te pepa.

    It is because that is the language in the haka world. It’s not just the general written language, and it’s not just the language that is learned through Te Matatini. Poetic license is the language of word invention. Making words up in your mind so that it lays better on the paper.

    Pērā pea i te kōrero rā “he iti te kupu he nui te kōrero.” Nā te mea kei roto tērā i te ao tito. He aha te ao kapa? He ao tito. Koirā katoa, te mana o tōna reo engari me kounga, me kounga.

    It’s like the statement “a small number of words can have a great meaning”. It’s because that is in the world of composition. What is the kapa world? A world of composition. That’s all of it, the prestige of their own language that must be excellent.

    Kāre au i te kī kia pērā rawa, kia teitei rawa te kounga tuhi o ngā tamariki rā engari ko te hunga ngākaunui ka whai rātou kia mārama, kia mōhio rātou ki te tito. Ko ētahi ka whai rātou i te tohungatanga o te whakairo i tēnei mea te poi, -

    I’m not saying that the writing excellence of the children has to be high, however the passionate people will pursue so they understand, so they know how to compose. Some will follow the experts of creating the poi.

    te tohungatanga rānei o te mōteatea. 

     

    Engari i roto i ērā kia pai, kia mārama, kia mōhio te kaiako ki te ako i a rātou ki te koungatanga o te reo o ngā mea ngāwari noa pēnei i te tika o te takoto te A me te O.

    Or establish expertise in the traditional chant.

     

    However, within those the teachers need to be good and understood. The tutor needs to know how to teach them about language excellence for simple aspects like the correct use of the A and O categories.

     

    I roto i wā rātou titonga, i roto i wā rātou tuhinga nā te mea he taniwha hou tēnei kua hangaia nei i roto i te marautanga.   Kia tika atu ngā reo o ngā kaiako ka ako i ngā tamariki nā te mea ētahi wā keokeo wāku taringa ki tērā.

    Within their compositions and their writing because there is a new challenge that has been created within this approach. The language of the tutors who teach children needs to be correct because sometimes my ears are pierced by it.

    He aha o moemoeā, he aha o wawata mō tēnei, mō te ao haka?

    What are your dreams, what are your aspirations for Te Ao Haka?

    Ko aku moemoeā, ko tāku tironga whānui mō te ao haka kia ora ai ia, nā te mea he tīmatanga to te tangata ki runga i te mata o te whenua. He mutunga tangata ki runga i te mata o te whenua.

    My dreams, my ultimate aspiration for the haka world is to survive, because people have a start date and an end date, we have finite time on this earth.

    Mate noa atu pea mātou koirā hoki te kōrero a Nanny Uru “i au e ora nei kia pai te manaaki tō koutou Tūhoetanga, i ngā tikanga, kia ātaahua ta koutou tū. Kia mauri tau. Kia mōhio koutou ko wai koutou.”

    Ka mate te kuia rā koirā ngā mātāpono hiahia ia, kia kite ia, kia rongohia ia. Ka mate te kuia rā i tutuki pai tērā. 

    Maybe when we die, that’s also the statement of Nanny Uru “while I am alive look after your Tūhoe essence, the customs and stand beautifully. Be composed. So that you know who you are”

    When that elder died those were the principles that she wanted so she could see and hear. When she died her aspirations had been achieved.

    Engari mōku i roto i te ao haka nei kei hea te tironga whānui atu mō te ao haka, mō ngā tamariki kia riro ko te ao haka te waka ahunga whakamua mō ngā tamariki Māori i roto i te ao mātauranga. Kia kore ai rātou e tukitukihia e ngā hītori pākehā, anei na hoki o rātou.

    However, for me in Te Ao Haka, where is the broad vision for the haka and for the children? So that the haka world will become the vehicle to move Māori children forward in the world of education. It’s so that they don’t have to clash with European histories - here are theirs too.

    Engari kia whakanui rātou, kia whakapono rātou ki tērā. Kāre he take o taku kōrero pērā pēnā he tamariki, ngā kaiako kāore i te mōhio ki tērā āhuatanga. Kia kaha ngā kaiwhakangungu i ngā māhita e mōhio ana rātou, kei te aha rātou i te ao haka.

    They should be celebrated; they should believe in that. There is no point talking like that if they’re children, the tutors don’t know that aspect. May the trainers of teachers be resolute, so the teachers know what they’re doing within the haka world.

    Nō reira ehara tēnei taniwha i te taniwha māmā. Me mārama tonu ngā kaiwhakahaere i tēnei taniwha, nā te mea kei roto i o rātou ringaringa te āpōpō me te mātauranga, te taumata mātauranga o a tātou tamariki Māori.

    So, this challenge is not an easy challenge. The coordinators must be aware of this challenge because within their hands is the future and the education – the pinnacle of education of our Māori children.

    Koinei pea te whakarerekētanga i te ao Māori, kia ekea ia ki tōna koungatanga me taku whakapono ka taea e rātou, me whakapono rā.

    That’s possibly the difference in the Māori world, to achieve its excellence. I believe that they can do it – there must be belief.

    Ko koe te pīki kaiwhakawā i roto i ngā kaupapa o te Rangitāiki, Te Hui Ahurei a Tūhoe, tatū rawa iho ki ētahi o ngā whakataetae ā-rohe anō hoki, kōmiti. He aha ngā pūkenga, he aha ngā mea ka tirohia e koe, ka whakawāhia e koe nōu ka whakawā?

    You are the principal judge within the initiatives of Rangitāiki, Te Hui Ahurei o Tūhoe, finally arriving at some of the committees for regional competitions too. What are the attributes and what are the aspects that will be examined by you when you judge your items?

    I tōku tīmatanga ki roto i te ao, ki runga i te tēpu kaiwhakawā, he wā roa ahau e wānanga ana i āu anō pēnā au i te tika ki te noho hei kaiwhakawā. I ērā wā ka kōrero mai a Te Rangihau “anei, anei, anei, me pēnei tā koutou whakawā.” 

    When I first started in this world, on the judging panel, I spent a long-time self-reflecting on whether it was appropriate for me to become a judge. In those times Te Rangihau said to me “here, here, here, you must judge like this.”

    Ka whakaaro āe pai, tika tērā. Pai ngā ako a Te Rangihau, tangata mārama nē hā. Koirā hoki i eke pēnei ai te mana o Te Hui Ahurei, ngā whakakitenga a Te Rangihau

    I thought yes, good, that’s correct. The teachings of Te Rangihau were good, he was a knowledgeable person. That’s also why the prestige of the Tūhoe Ahurei grew because of the foresight of Te Rangihau.

    I ngā tau o muri mai i roto i te hui ahurei ka kite ahau tētahi iwi mō te whānako māka. You know, ka whakahoahoa ki o rātou kapa haka. Whakaaro kāre tēnei i te pai. Engari nā te mea ko te koroua o tērā kapa haka nā te mea kei reira ōna mokopuna e haka ana.

    During the previous years of the Hui Ahurei, I saw one tribe stealing marks. You know, they become friends with their groups. I thought this is not good. But it was because the elder had done that due to their grandchildren performing in that team.

    Kāre i taea e Tūhoe te wehewehe i a rātou mai te whakahoahoa ki ngā kapa haka, te noho i runga i te tēpu. He pai tērā ako, nā te mea i tere kite taku hinengaro. 

    Tūhoe cannot separate themselves from favouring other groups and sitting at the judging table. That’s a good lesson because I quickly saw it in my mind.

    Ko au tonu te mea i ako mai tērā. Ka pēhea taku whakawā i ngā kapa haka pēnā au ki te whakahoahoa. Kāre rā tērā i te pai. Nā te mea toru marama ngā kapa haka e whakangungu ana i a rātou anō. Nō reira ka takahurihia au taku tūnga ka noho ko ahau te kaiwhakahaere i ngā kaiwhakawā.

    I was the person who learned that. How am I to judge a group if I am their friend? That is not good. It’s because the groups spend 3 months preparing themselves. So, I changed my role so I could become the principal judge.

    Ka noho au ia pō te tātai, tātai i ō rātou…kia kore rā anō to rātou wairua e taea rātou te whakahoki kōrero ki au. Engari ko te āhua o te kaiwhakawā, kia pono, kia tika. Ko ētahi kaiwhakawā, ka whakawā rātou ki runga i tā rātou e whakapono ana rātou me pēnei, me pērā. Kao.

    Every night I plan, I plan it so that in their spirit, they can provide feedback to me. However, the character of the judge is to be truthful and correct. Some judges judge on what they believe should be like this and that. No.

    Me noho tonu tāua ki te kōrero mō ngā mātāpono o te kaiwhakawā. Tērā ētahi kaiwhakawā ka tango māka engari kāre he whakamārama i aua hāmenetanga, he aha te mea nui o te whakamārama i o hāmenetanga?

    Let’s continue our discussion about the principles of the judge. Some judges remove marks without explanations about the penalties. What is the most important when explaining your penalties?

    Ko te mea nui kia mōhio mai te kapa haka he aha rātou i tā keteketehia ai. Kua painga pea nā wā, o te ao kaiwhakawā o te kī, “ka pai, ka pai, ka pai iwa tekau mā rima wā rātou māka.” Koirā noa iho ngā kōrero mō te rima māka i tangohia rā. 

    The most important factor is for the performing troupe to know what they are chirping about. There was a time that it was accepted for a judge to say, “That’s nice, nice work, 95 marks for them”. And that’s all of the feedback for removing 5 marks.

    Ko te raruraru katoa, kāore anō i rongoāhia tēnei raruraru. Ko te raruraru katoa karekau he tuhinga mahi a ngā kaiwhakawā, kāre he job description. E rua ngā wāhanga, ngā wāhanga whakawā

    The primary concern – it has not been resolved. The primary concern is that there is no job description for judges, there is no job description. There are two parts to judging.

    Te pepa kāre he kupu o runga, me te pepa he kupu kei runga. Blank paper judging, Aspect judging. E rua e rua he hapa kei roto. Nō reira kāre anō wērā mea e tino whānuihia kia tohunga te whakauruhanga mai i ngā kaiwhakawā.

    The paper that has words on it and the paper that is blank. Blank paper judging, aspect judging. Both are the same and have challenges. Consequently, those things are not very broad to elevate the type of judge coming in to do the job.

    Ka whakangungu i a rātou nā te mea he mate tawhito tēnā, he mate tawhito tēnā o te tapatapahi ngā māka a ngā kapa haka, but te iwa tekau mā rima engari kei te kīia atu “ka pai, ka pai, ka pai.”

    They will be trained because that is a longstanding challenge. It’s a longstanding challenge to chop up the marks of the groups, giving 95 but saying “good, good”.

    Ko te taha o ngā rongoā i tirohia, me whakahoki mai ngā kapa haka ki mua i te aroaro o ngā kaiwhakawā kia kōrero ngā kaiwhakawā he aha rātou i hapa ai mo te…kia whakamārama ngā kaiwhakawā he aha rātou i tā keteketehia ai i a rātou.

    Of the solutions that were explored was that groups must return in front of the judges so the judges can explain why the group faltered…so the judges can explain what they chatted about.

    E toru ngā huihuinga pērā i tae ahau, kāore e pai. Patu wairua. Engari ko tētahi o ngā pīki raruraru anō, ko ngā kapa kei te rau mai wā rātou kaiwhakawā. Ehara ko ngā kaiwhakahaere o ngā whakataetae rā pēnei i Te Matatini.

    There were 3 gatherings like that I attended. They weren’t good. There was a lot of ill feeling. However, one of the other primary challenges are the groups bringing their own judges. They’re not from the organising committee like Te Matatini.

    Ko ngā kapa kei te rau mai wā rātou tāngata, karekau i te āta kōrero ki wā rātou tāngata. Engari me oti rā anō he tuhinga mahi he job description. Me oti rā anō rānei ngā pepa, momo pepa hei mākatanga mā ngā kaiwhakawā.

    The groups that are bringing their own people are not carefully briefing their people. Nevertheless, they must complete a job description. They must complete the papers instead, the types of documents that are marked by the judges.

    E kite ai pea he āhuatanga rerekē e puta mai ana.   Engari me taku kī atu “kua pai ake, kua tino pai ake.” Ko ētahi ka tuhi rātou tētahi tuhinga kairangi. Kaua kaituhi kia pērā rawa te roa.

    There are different outcomes being explored. However, I should say “they’re better, they’re really better”. Some write excellent descriptions, not that long.

    Ko tētahi atu raruraru, ehara i te raruraru pea engari kia kitea pēhea te koi o te kaiwhakawā. Kia maumahara ngā kaiako, toru marama rātou e whakangungu ana i o rātou kapa.

    Another challenge, maybe it’s not a challenge, but to look at how sharp the judge is. Tutors should remember that they have been preparing their teams for 3 months.

    e hari mai ai rātou i o rātou kapa ki runga i te atamira. Ka hari mai rātou i o rātou kapa haka ki runga i te atamira, e whakapono ana rātou kua eke to rātou tīma, ngā tīma rā ki te kotahi rau paihēneti o tōna toatanga.

    They bring their group onto the stage. They bring their teams onto the stage, and they believe their team has peaked, to 100% of achievement.

    Ko te kapa tērā me te kaiako tērā me te whānau. Haramai ki te taha o te kaiwhakawā, maumahara ngā kapa, toru miniti noa iho te kaiwhakawā e kite ana i te kaupapa e whakawā rā ia.

    That is the group, the tutor, and the family. And when it comes to the judges, the teams must remember, the judges have 3 minutes to see what subjects that they are marking.

    Toru miniti, o te toru marama o te kapa e whakangungu ana. Kei hea tērā? Pēnā karekau i te pai ki te wairua o te whakawā e riri ai te kapa haka, kei hea te whakaratatanga i tērā.

    Three minutes of the 3 months of the group that is preparing. Where is that? If the judgment is not good to the spirit, then the group is angered. Where’s the consideration in that?

    He uaua tēnei, he uaua ki te whakawā. Ka tuku mihi nui ahau ki te hunga ka heahea ki te whakatū i o rātou ringa hei kaiwhakawā mō Te Matatini, nā te mea he uaua.

    This is difficult, it’s difficult judging. I strongly acknowledge the people that foolishly put their hand up as a judge for Te Matatini, because it is difficult.

    Engari me koi. Me koi taringa, me koi t kanohi. Ko te kaitō… ko tētahi o ngā āhuatanga o te kaiwhakawā ko te angitutanga ko te X factor.

    But one must be sharp. Sharp ear, sharp eye. The determiner…is one of the aspects that is judged, this is the excellence component, the X factor.

    He aha te whakamāramatanga o tērā mea o te angitu, o te X Factor? 

    What is your explanation of success, of the X factor?

    Ki te kaiwhakawā. Anei tāku, ki te titi mai ki roto i au, X Factor tērā. Ki te noho ki konei. Pērā te uaua, pēnā koe ka whakawā i ngā tohunga o te ao haka matatini, te rā whakamutunga.   

    To the judge. Here’s what I think, if it pierces me within, that’s the X factor. If it sits here. That’s how hard it is, if you judge the experts of the haka world of Matatini, the finals day.

    Ka kani koe ki roto rānō i tō wairua, i tō whatumanawa kia puta mai taua mea e kimi rā koe i roto i ngā kapa tekau mā rua. Ka ruku hōhonu koe ki roto i a koe kia pono tō wairua me tō titiro ki ngā kapa rā.

    Your spirit and your heart dance because that’s what you’re looking for in the top 12 teams. You dig deep within you so your spirit may be truthful when observing the groups.

    He uaua, he ātaahua, he pai te whakawā engari he mahi mokemoke. I āhua ora ai ahau nā te mea mutu atu ana i runga i te atamira, ki runga eropereina kua hoki māua ki tō tātou ngahere karekau hoki au e kite i ngā tāngata o te motu. 

    It’s difficult, it's beautiful, it's good to judge but it is a lonely job. I lived a little bit because when the time on the stage concluded, we would go by airplane to our forest where I would also not see the people of the nation.

    He uaua. Engari he ātaahua. He ātaahua ai kia pono, kia tika. Pērā anō ngā kapa haka kia pono kia tika. Pēnā kei te whakaae, kei te whakapono kei te eke to tīma, koirā hoki raua atu ai ngā kaiwhakawā.

    It’s difficult. However, it is beautiful. It is beautiful when truthful and correct. The same should apply to the performing troupes – be truthful and correct. If in agreement, believing that your team will succeed, then that will be the same for the judges.

    Nō reira, ki ō whakaaro he aha te rongoā, he aha te rautaki hei whakatika i tērā, ērā hapa nui i roto i te pūnaha whakawā?

    So, in your opinion, what is the solution? What is the strategy to rectify that, or those significant errors in the adjudicating system?

    Ko te raruraru o tērā he nui rawa ngā tū ā-iwi kua kore taea tērā. Pēnā tātou ka titiro ki Te Matatini. He nui ngā tū ā-iwi, kua kore taea te whakarautaki i tērā, ki te whakatakoto tūāpapa mo ērā momo whakataetae.

    The problem with that is there are many unique tribal stances so that’s not possible. If we look at Te Matatini. There are many tribal stances, there is no way to strategise for that, to lay foundations for those kinds of competitions.

    E kī ana hoki ngā mātanga o Te Matatini “kaua koutou hei whakawā ā-tikanga nei, tū tikanga, tū iwi nei. Whakawā a-tū whakataetae nei.”

    The experts of Te Matatini also claim that “you shouldn’t judge the application of customary practices and customs for tribal stance. Judge the stance of the competition.”

    Engari anō te rautaki mō Te Hui Ahurei, ka taea wērā nā te mea he whakataetae ā-iwi kē. Kotahi noa iho hoki nē hā, te tū. Wērā, nui rawa. And ko tēhea tū, he aha ngā kaupapa o te tū, o te poi ka whāia nā te mea.

    Unlike the strategy for Te Hui Ahurei, those are achievable because it is a tribal competition. There is only one thing, right, the stance. Those great things. And which stance, what are the characteristics of the stance, of the poi that will be applied just because.

    Arā, ngā kapa tāone tau ki te poi. Arā Te Arawa iwi tau ki te..nā rātou tērā taonga te poi. 

    There are groups from the towns who are beautiful at the poi. There is Te Arawa, very beautiful, they own that treasure - the poi.

    Ka pēhea te hanga i te pepa whakawā mō tērā?

    How is a paper developed to judge that?

    Hei whakakōpani ake rā i wā tāua kōrero, he aha ētahi kupu akiaki, he aha ētahi kupu whakahau ki ngā kaiako ka ako i ngā akonga tahi, me ngā ākonga anō hoki.  

    To conclude our discussions, what are some words of encouragement, what are some directions, first for the tutors who will teach the students, and then the students too?

    He aha ētahi kupu akiaki ki a rātou i roto i tēnei huarahi hou o te ao haka?

    What are some words of encouragement to those who are on this new pathway for the world of haka?

    Ko te kōrero tuatahi pea kia kaha. Kia kaha nā te mea āe, he ao hou tēnei. He akonga hou tēnei. He oranga pai kei roto i tēnei i te ao haka. Kia riro pea mā te ao haka hei whakatairanga te mātauranga o ngā tamariki Māori. 

    The first thing I would say is be strong. Be strong because yes, this is a new world. This is new learning. It is a good life in the haka world. It will be left for the haka world to promote the education of the Māori children.

    Hei kukume mai to rātou wairua kia rata mai anō rātou ki te ao mātauranga. Ki ngā kaiako, kia kaha rātou ki te ako i a rātou anō kia pai ai tā rātou ako i ngā tamariki. Nā te mea, anei tētahi kōrero.

    To entice their spirits to be reinvigorated to the world of education. To the teachers, be strong to teach themselves for the betterment of the students. Because here is one example.

    Ahakoa ko koe te tohunga o te reo, ko koe te tohunga o te mōteatea me te haka. Mēnā karekau koe e mōhio ki te ako i te tamariki ki ngā rauemi o tēnei mea te ako, kāre e taea.

    Even if you are an expert of the language, or if you are the expert of the traditional chant, and the haka. If you don’t know how to teach children with learning resources, then you will not get there.

    Nō reira to tohungatanga ki tō mahi pēnei i a koe nei. Pēnā ko koe nei te kaiwhakapaoho. I akohia koe kia pērā koe. Nō reira āhea koe ka ako, ka haere ki te whakangungu i a koe anō ki te ako ētahi atu

    So, the skill is in your knowledge and experience, like your work you do. If you are a broadcaster, you learned to be like that. So, when you learn, you also go to train yourself to teach others.

    Pērā tēnei taonga. Kia kaha ngā kaiako ki te whakangungu i a rātou ki te whakakaha ake i a rātou o roto i a rātou me o rātou pūkenga ka whāngai ki ngā tamariki.

    Like this treasure. Teachers should be strong to train themselves, to strengthen themselves and their talents to share with the students.

    Kia kaha hoki ngā pākeke Māori o te ao haka, o runga i ngā marae, o ngā wāhi katoa nā te mea koinei ki te ao Māori ko te ao haka. Ki te manaaki i tēnei kaupapa. Kua pai te wāhi, te wāhanga ki ngā homaitanga o te Westernised notion o tēnei mea o te mātauranga. Ki te whāngai ki wā tātou tamariki, “anei, anei tōna aranga ake”

    The Māori elders of the haka world must be strong too, on the marae, and all areas because the Māori world is the haka world. If this initiative is protected, the space is then good for the provisions of the Westernised notion of this concept called education. If our children are fed, “here, here is its resurrection” 

    And kia kaha. Tirohia ki ngā kaiako me ngā kaiwhakahaere. Kaua e tukuna te ao haka kia hanga noa iho tēnei rā nei ahunga whakamua.

    And be strong. Look at the tutors and the organisers. Do not let the haka world become something that is driven by today’s vision forward.

    Whakatakotohia he tekau, e rima tau, tekau tau rānei o tēnei ako whakahoki mai, whakahuihui anō, ka hanga anō mō te tekau kei mua atu i tērā. 

    Lay out a 10- or 50-year return from this learning, then gather again, develop a new approach for the 10 years ahead of that.

     

    Kaua e waiho noa iho pēnei i ngā paerewa ako nei mai te tau rua mano ki tēnei rā nei, kāore anō e rerekē ake. Kua hōhā ngā tamariki Māori.

    Don’t merely leave it like the learning standards from the year 2000 until today, it has not changed. Māori children have become bored.

    Nō reira, tautoko nui au i a koutou ngā kaiako, ngā kaiwhakahaere o te ao haka. Tautoko nui au me taku mihi nui ki a koutou kua hangaia koutou tēnei āhuatanga.

    So, I fully support you tutors, the coordinators of the haka world. I fully support and acknowledge you who have developed this circumstance.

    Nō reira kua hora ngā kai hei kai mā te hinengaro, hei kai hoki mā te taringa. Me kore noa koutou e puta ki te whai ao ki te ao mārama kia tūturu ō whiti kia whakamaua kia tina. Tina. Haumi e, Hui e, Taiki e!

    Thus, the food has been spread out as food for thought, and as food for the ears. Without you there is no progression to the unfolding world of light – let’s show unity and affirmation! 

    [ Accordion ]

    Music in the background continues through the whole introduction with opening scene of the beach side with rakau. Camera shot of marae and changes to drive past ocean as visual changes to a bay with a log on the beach and water and trees in background. Camera then pans ground level across the beach showing seaweed and then shows coastal shore with rocks and water in the background. Wave crashes around rock and shows close-up on water breaking close to rocks. Camera view of a sign saying “Nau mai, haere mai, you are entering the tribal lands of Te Whanau a Apanui. Next taking a drive into the rohe surrounded by ngahere. Camera then pans with a jetty and ocean and a small community in the background surrounded by hills. Quick visuals of Waihau Bay Lodge and changing visual to a park where the swings are moving with other obstacles in background. Camera pans across the water and down the jetty where the words Te Whānau-a-Apanui appear and screen goes black with Te Whanau a Apanui still showing before the words Te Ao Haka appear.

    Reo Māori

    Reo Pākehā

    Kei te tungāne tēnā rā koe, nau mai rā ki tā tātou puna o paho mō te ao haka i tēnei wā. Ki te tuari mai ō whakaaro me ō pūkenga te ao haka i tēnei wā ko wai koe, nō whea koe?

    Greetings, my brother. Welcome to our podcast for Te Ao Haka. Thank you for coming to share with us your thoughts and skills. Firstly, who are you and where do you come from?

    Kia ora Alex, me pai te kite atu i a koe. Ko Te Kahurangi ahau, he uri ahau nō Tūhoe, Te Whānaua-a-Apanui, Ngapuhi me Te Arawa.

    Hey, Alex. It’s good to see you. I’m Te Kahurangi from Tūhoe, Te Whānau-a-Apanui, Ngāpuhi and Te Arawa.

    Tēnā koe. Ka pai, e te tungāne, kia tahuri tāua ki te kōrero iti nei mō tō haerenga i te ao haka, mai i te wā e rua ō tau, mai i tō whānautanga mai rānei.

     

    Ā, taea noatia tēnei rā?

    Greetings. Cool, bro, so we're just going to get into a little bit of a kōrero around your te ao haka journey, since you were two years old, or since you were born.

     

    Right up until about now?

    Āna

    Pretty much.

    He aha ō mahara tuatahi mō te haka?

    What's your earliest memory of haka?

    Wiii. Ko tōku māmā. Ko Māmā, ko Pāpā me tōku whānau. I kī mai rātou, e rua aku tau i runga ahau i te atamira. Engari e rima pea aku tau, ka tū ahau ki Waimana, ki te Hui Ahurei a Tūhoe. Kāore au i te mōhio ki te tau. 

     

    Heoi anō, e rima, e ono rānei aku tau. Ana, i te whakaeke mātou i te atamira. 

     

    Koinei aku maharatanga. I ahau e tamaiti ana, ko te wa e nohinohi ana.

     

     

    Oh, geez. So, yep. Yeah. That's from mum. Mum and dad and my siblings, they said I was up on stage at the age of two. But maybe when I was five performing in Waimana for Te Hui Ahurei ā Tūhoe. I can't do my math, so I don't know which year. 

     

    But yeah, I think I was five or six years old. And yeah, we were about to go on stage. 

     

    So, this is what I remember. As a kid, when you're at that age or bloody nohinohi.

    Āe, tutu.

    A mischief one.

    Tutu. 

     

    Ka tata putungia ahau i te atamira e taku māmā. Engari i whakatika au i a au anō i te mea i te hīkaka ahau ki te haka i te atamira. Koirā tāku i ngākaunui ai.

     

    I wherea pea ahau e te ihi me te wana, nā te mea i kī taku māmā, “Āe, kua wātea koe ki te piki i te atamira, i te mea he tamaiti pai koe.” I te atamira ahau, kātahi ahau ka wherea e te ihi me te wana, hei tā ētahi i te whai ahau ki te mahi i ā te kaitātaki mahi. Koirā aku maharatanga. Wiii, e hoki ana ngā mahara, e te tuahine.

     

    Mischief. 

     

    And my mom nearly kicked me off stage. But then I snapped out of it, because I was very eager to jump on stage to do haka. That was my passion.

     

     

    And I think the passion took over, because my mum said, "Yep, you could jump on stage. You're being a good boy." Yeah. I was on stage, and then yeah, that passion took over, and apparently, I was trying to take over the leader parts, too. Yeah. From what I can remember, and yeah, far. Taking me back now there, sis.

    Nō reira, i tīmata tō ngākaunui nei i taua wā rā?

     

    E rima ngā tau, ka piki koe i te atamira, ka raru iti kōrua ko tō māmā, kātahi koe ka whakatika i a koe anō, ka koke tonu?

    Yeah, so your passion started from then?

     

    Five years old going on to the stage, have a little bit of a tanty with your mum, snap out of it, and move on?

    Āna, koia.

    Yep, pretty much.

    Ka rawe. Kia kōrero tonu tāua, i haka a Māmā rāua ko Pāpā?

    That's cool bro. So, if we talk a little about, did mom and dad do haka?

    Kāore tōku pāpā i haka, ki tōku mōhio. Kāore au i te tino mōhio. Ki tōku mōhio ake, kāore a Pāpā i haka. Engari ko ia te mea i kaha akiaki i a mātou ko ana tamariki.

     

    Engari i haka a Māmā. I te kapa haka o Mātaatua ki Rotorua ia.

     

     

    Waimarie ahau i tū ngātahi māua ko taku māmā.

    Not so much dad, or yeah, I don't think... Well, I don't know. But yeah, what I can remember, no from dad. But he was the one that really pushed myself and my siblings.

     

    But mum, yep. She performed. She used to do kapa haka for Mataatua ki Rotorua.

     

    And I'm fortunate enough to perform alongside my mother, as well

    I rawe tērā. I tū ngātahi hoki te whānau, arā, ngā tamariki.

    Yeah, so that was pretty cool. And also, my siblings.

    Āe, ngā tamariki. Nō reira, kāore tō pāpā i haka, engari e mea ana koe ko ia te kaitohutohu, nē?

    Yeah. Your siblings. So, your dad didn't do haka, but you're saying that he was the driller, was he?

    Āe, ko ia tērā.

     

    Āe, ko ia te kaiwhakatika, kia pērā te kōrero.

    E toru ngā tikanga i a mātou e pakeke ake ana. Nāna i mōhio ai mātou ki te reo Māori.

     

    Āe, koira te mea nui, koirā te wāhanga matua. Tuarua, ko te kapa haka. Tuatoru, ko te puoro. 

     

    Āe. Nō reira, nāna mātou i akiaki i aua ao e toru rā.

    Yeah, he was.

     

    Yeah, he was the bad cop, I think, I would say. So, there were three things, us growing up. He made sure that we knew our te reo māori.

     

     

    Yep, that was the main thing, there was that was the main part. Second was kapa haka. And third was music. 

     

    Yeah, so he really pushed us in those three elements.

    He aha ia i akiaki ai i a koe i aua ao e toru rā? I te mea kāore ia i whai i aua ao rā, i aroha rānei ia ki aua ao rā?

    Why do you think he would've pushed you in those elements? Something to do that he was deprived from, or he loved it?

    Āna. E hoki ana ngā whakaaro ināianei ki te wā i tūtaki ai rāua ko Māmā.

     

    Kāore taku pāpā i mōhio ki te reo me te kapa haka i tana tipuranga ake, engari i kite ia i aua mea, ā, i mōhio hoki ia ko wai ia. I mārama ia ki te reo. 

     

    Kia tūtaki rāua ko Māma, ā, i te kōrero Māori taku whaea me ōna whanaunga, kua mea taku pāpā, “Kei te aha kē ēnei nā?” Mai i taua wā, ka mahara ia koirā tana hiahia mō āna tamariki.

     

    Kia tae ki te kapa haka, i mōhio noa ia ki te kapa haka. Ka ako noa koe i ngā kupu katoa me e mārama noa ana koe ki te reo Māori. Arā hoki tana akiaki i te reo Māori me te ao puoro, ā, he hoa puoro ōna.

     

    Āe, ko ōna hoa pirihonga, ā, ko Cairo te ingoa o te pēne.

     

    Ka mutu, ki a mātou ngā tamariki Māori e tipu ake ana, ka mahara mātou, “Kei te pīrangi whakatangi au i te rakuraku.” Koirā te taonga puoro matua, ko te whakatangi rakuraku. 

     

    Engari ka mea ōna hoa puoro, “Kāo, kia ākona ō tamariki ki te whakatangi piana i te tuatahi.” Kia mōhio koe ki te piana, ka taea e koe te aha rā te whakatangi.

     

    Nō reira, e rima ngā tau ka tīmata aku akoranga piana. Nā te wahine nei, nā Mrs. Garrett, nā Dorene Garrett rānei a Kimiora i ako. Kātahi ka mōhio a Kimiora ki te pūkeru, a Jamus ki te patooro, ā, ko māua ko Talitha i ako i te piana.

    Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think we're going way back now when dad met mum.

     

    So, growing up, dad didn't really have the te reo māori, the kapa haka around him, but he knew it was there, and he knew who he was. He could understand it. 

     

    Until he met mum, and mum was with her cousins, talking Māori and all of that, and dad's going, "What are these fellows up to?" And from there, he was like, "far, I want my kids to be like that."

     

    And then kapa haka, well he just knew, kapa haka, you learn all the words, you could easily understand te reo māori. And then there was a way of pushing te reo māori. And then with music, he's got a few musos.

    Yeah, his good mates, and the band called Cairo.

     

    And for Māori kids like us growing up, we're like, "Oh, I want to play the guitar first. That's my main instrument, playing the guitar." 

     

     

    But those musos told dad, "No, you get your kids to learn piano first." Because once you pick up piano, you'll be able to play anything.

     

     

    So, at the age of five as well, that's when I had my first piano lessons. Yeah. And this lady, Mrs. Garrett or Dorene Garrett, she taught Kimiora. Then it was, Kimiora on the organ first, then Jamus on the keyboard, Talitha and myself on piano.

    Wiii, kia pai mai hoki. Whakatangi ai koutou katoa i te piana me te patooro?

    Wow, mean. So, you all play the piano, the keys?

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    Kia pai mai hoki. Nō reira, he aha ka puta i te whenumitanga o te kapa haka me te puoro, i te whakatangi i ngā taonga puoro?

    Fuu mean. So, then if you do get a bit of a mixture between kapa haka and music, as in playing instruments, what does that create for us?

    Kua raru au i a koe me tēnei pātai.

    Oh, far you got me on that one.

    Ka whakatangi katoa koutou, ka tito hoki.

    You guys all play it, composition.

    Āe, ka whakatangi rātou, ki taku mōhio. 

    Yeah. Oh yeah, they plays, I think, yeah 

    He tutū te mahi.

    Having a tutu.

    He nui te wāhi ki te tutū, tae atu ki ngā reo niko.

     

    He aha tērā? Ehara rānei tērā i te wāhanga matua?

    That plays a big part in it, even with harmonies.

     

    What's that? Is that not a key feature?

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    He wāhanga matua tērā?

    Oh, is it a key feature?

    He wāhanga tērā, āe.

    It's an element, yeah.

    Āe, he wāhanga. Nō reira, ko te ako i ngā reo niko. Kia whakatangi koe i ngā tangiata i te patooro, ka āhei koe te wāwāhi i te katoa mai i te tīmatanga.

     

    Atu i reira, tae noa atu ki te rangi teitei. Ā, ka āhei koe te whakawhenumi i aua oro katoa rā me te tito hoki.

    It's an element, yep. So, learning harmony. So, when you play chords on the keyboard, you'll be able to break everything down from the base.

     

     

    And so on, all the way up to the sop. And you will be able to blend all those notes together, even composing.

    Nō reira, e rima ō tau ka tīmata ērā mahi katoa?

     

    Kātahi koe ka mahi kapa haka, ā, ka ākona koe e tō kaiako puoro. I haere koe ki hea i muri mai? I whai tonu koe i te puoro me te kapa haka i a koe i te kura?

    Cool, so that all started at the age of five?

     

    And then you're doing kapa haka, then you're being taught by your music teacher. Where did you go to after that? Did you carry on doing music and kapa haka throughout your schooling years?

    Āe. Nō reira I haere au ki Raukura i Rotorua.

     

    I tīmata i te tau 2016. E hē, 2006. He pērā te kaha o taku tamarikitanga. Kāo, i te tau 2006. I te tau 2010 taku tau whakamutunga.

     

    Nō reira, ko te kapa haka tā mātou i tino pai ai i te kura, engari -

    Yea, So, I attended Rotorua Boy's High School, or Raukura.

     

    I started there 2016. Oh, 2006. That's how young I am. No, 2006, and my last year was 2010.

     

    And yeah, so kapa haka was the main part for us in schools, but I was in the -

    I te kura tuatahi?

    Primary?

    Āe, i te kura tuatahi.

     

    Engari i te kura tuatahi, ko te Ahurei te whāinga nui. I ia rua tau ka tū te Ahurei a Tūhoe, ka wātea ahau ki te tū i te atamira.

    Yeah, and primary. Sorry.

     

    Oh, but my primary was more so the Ahurei. So, every two years, Tūhoe Ahurei, they was on, and that was my time to jump on stage.

    Wiii, nō reira, atu i Rotorua, i Te Arawa, ahakoa kei konei a Mātaatua. Ko wai te ingoa-

    Wow, so you go from Rotorua Te Arawa, even though we got Mataatua. What's the name of the-

    Āe, ko Mātaatua ki Rotorua.

    Yeah, Mataatua ki Rotorua.

    Āe, ko Mātaatua ki Rotorua. Kātahi koe ka tū ki te Ahurei a Tūhoe. I pēhea tērā?

    Yeah, Mataatua ki Rotorua. And then you go and perform over the Tūhoe Ahurei. What was that like?

    I pai. Ki ahau nei, i rerekē. 

     

    Ka whai tā mātou tū ā-haka i te tū a Te Arawa. Engari mō te taha ki te reo Māori, ko te mita nō Tūhoe.

     

    Āe, ko Tūhoe kē tā mātou nei mita. Engari he whenumitanga nō ngā mea e rua.

     

    He whenumitanga nō ngā mea e rua, engari e pai ana. He pai te hoki ki te kāinga, ki Ruatoki.

    It's all good. Well, I think, yeah, pretty out of it. 

     

    So, our haka stance or our haka performance will probably be with Te Arawa. But when it comes to te reo māori ko te mita ko Tūhoe.

     

    We use the Tūhoe dialect. So, we got a bit of both.

     

     

    Bit of both in there, but it's all good. It's always good going home back to Rūātoki.

    Nō reira, i pakeke mai koe i Te Arawa, ā, ka hoki koe ki te ūkaipō, ki Tūhoe. He mea nui tērā?

    Yeah. So, growing up in T Arawa, going back to your roots over in Tūhoe, how important was that?

    Āe, he mea nui tonu. Nā te mea kei Rotorua, kei te tāone noa iho, kia tīmata ngā haratau kei te marae kē, ā, me waia anō koe ki ngā hātepe haratau. Engari kia hoki koe ki te tuawhenua, ki te ao o reira, mā tērā koe e whakawhenua.

     

    Mā te haere mai ki konei anō, ki Te Whānau-a-Apanui koe e whakawhenua anō hoki.

     

    Ka hoki anō koe ki te tīmatanga. Kua koa, kua hihiko anō, kātahi ka hoki anō ki te ao whānui.

    Oh, important as. Well, it's just, yeah, being in Rotorua, being in town, and then when practice startup, that starts up at the marae, it's like, "Oh, yeah, you got to get into the practice routines. Oh, yeah." But then you're going into the outbacks, going into the rural life, and that just brings you back.

     

    Yeah. So, even coming here to Te Whānau-ā-Apanui just brings you back.

     

     

    Brings you back to square one. Happy as, recharged, and then back into the big world.

    Koia. I te kura tuatahi, i tae koutou ki ngā whakataetae ā-motu, i whakataetae rānei koe i te kura tuatahi?

    Cool, so if we go from primary school, did you guys ever go to nationals, or did you ever do competition at primary?

    Kāore.

    No, I didn't actually. Yeah.

    Nō reira, i a koe i Raukura?

    Yeah, so we come through to Raukura.

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    I Raukura i Rotorua. I pēhea te kapa haka i reira? Ko wai mā ngā kaiako?

    At Rotorua Boy's High School. What was that like for kapa haka? Who were your tutors?

    Me whakaingoa rawa e au? Ko taku tuakana, ko Jamus, ko rāua ko Talei ngā kaiako. Ko Talei Morrison.

     

    Ko ia tō mātou kaiako. I a au ka tīmata i te tau 2006, i tū te whakataetae ā-motu ki Waikato.

     

    Kāore a Raukura i eke i tērā tau. Nō reira, i wātea au i taua tau katoa. Kāore au i te kapa haka, engari i whai tonu i te Super 8s.

     

    Ko ngā kura tamatāne katoa.

    Do I have to mention them? No. Yeah, so Jamus, my older brother Jamus, he was our tutor with Talei. Talei Morrison.

     

    Yeah, she was our tutor. So, when I started in 2006, the nationals at that time was in Waikato.

     

    Raukura didn't make it that year. So, I had that whole year. Didn't do kapa haka. Oh, we still had Super 8s.

     

    So, all the boy's high schools.

    He aha tērā? He aha te Super 8s?

    What's that? What's Super 8s?

    Ko te Super 8s, ko Raukura, ko Tūranga Tāne, ko Ngāmotu.

     

     

    Ko Ngāmotu? Heoi anō, ko ngā kura tamatāne katoa.

     

    Āe, e kīia ana ko ngā Super 8s, ka hui katoa mai mātou. He mahi ahurea, he tautohetohe, he hākinakina.

    Super 8s, so you got the likes of Rotorua Boy's High, Gizzy Boy's High, New Plymouth.

     

    Oh, New Plymouth? Anyways, all the boy's highs.

     

    Yeah, yeah. It's called the Super 8s, and we all come together. Cultural, debating, sports.

    He whaikōrero?

    Yeah. Speeches?

    He whaikōrero, he whakaari.

     

    Nō reira, ko taku tau tuatahi tērā i Raukura. Āe, ko ngā Super 8s i Heretaunga.

    Speeches, drama.

     

    So, that was my first year for Raukura. Yeah, Super 8s in Hastings.

    Wiii, Super 8s. Ka kapi i tērā ngā ahurea katoa, ka haere koe ki te haka me te whai i ērā atu toi?

    Fuu. Super 8s. So, that looks at all the cultures, and you just go and perform, and then all the arts?

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    Āe. He pēne anō? He mahi pēne i roto?

    Yeah. Was there a band? Band part in there?

    I taua wā rā, kāore. Engari, i tono a Rotorua i te Super 8s…

    Oh, at that time, no. But then, Super 8s, so Rotorua requested for the-

    Ki te manaaki i te kaupapa?

    To host it?

    Āe ki te pupuri i te mauri. Āe, ki te manaaki i te kaupapa. Kātahi ka tīmata ngā pēne. I te whakatangi ahau i ngā taramu i taua wā.

     

    Āe. I te whakatangi taramu ahau mō te pēne, ā, ka heke ahau i te atamira, ka kuhu ai i aku kākahu, kātahi au ka haere anō-

    Yea, to have the māuri. Yeah, to host it. And yeah, started up the bands then. Because I was playing the drums then.

     

    Yeah. Playing the drums for the band, and then jumped off the stage, got into my kākahu and then back off for-

    Ki te pēne?

    Band?

    Kāo, ki te haka.

     

    I tū au i te atamira i ngā mahi pēne me ngā mahi puoro. I rawe katoa. Ka heke iho i te atamira, ka tīni kākahu, ka tahuri ki te haka.

    Oh, for haka.

     

    Yeah. So, jumped on to do the band stuff, the music stuff. Boom, that was cool. Yep. Got off, got changed, and then transitioned over to haka's. Yeah.

    Kia rawe hoki. Nō reira, i Raukura, ko tō tuakana rāua ko Talei ngā kaiako. I pēhea rāua hei kaiako i tērā wā? Nā rāua koutou i mōhio ai ki te kairangi e ū tonu nei koutou o Raukura.

    Wow, mean. So, Raukura Boy's High School, your brother was your tutor, Talei. What were they like back then as tutors, and how did they bring you to be so experienced in excellence in the way that you guys hold yourselves as Raukura?

    Wiii. I tērā wā, ko mātou pea ngā mea i whakamātautauria e rātou, mai i tērā wā, i te tau 2007 taku whakataetae ā-rohe tuatahi.

     

    I raro i a Jamus rāua ko Talei. Ki ahau, ko mātou ngā mea i whakamātautauria.

     

    I te tau 2010, nā mātou pea i mōhiotia ai a Raukura, ā, ināianei ka haukerekerehia mātou e rātou, e hika. Ko te rōpū tērā o nāianei, o te whakataetae ā-motu o mua ake nei rānei.

    Oh, geez. Well, going back then, I think we were the trial and errors back then, from then from back in, what was it, so my first regionals was 2007.

     

    With Jamus and Talei. Yeah, and I think we were the trial and error.

     

     

    2010 I think we got Raukura on the map, and then from then to now, holy hecka, they'll smoke us now. Yeah, the group that are performing now, oh well the previous nationals.

    Āe. I pēhea te tū hei ākonga, i te wharekura, i pēhea te whanaungatanga.

    Yeah. What was it like being performing as a student? Like at wharekura, whānaungatanga.

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    Āe. I pēhea rā?

    Yeah. What was that like?

    I pai tonu. Kāore au i te mōhio me pēhea taku whakautu i tēnā pātai.

    No, it was pretty far out. I don't know how to answer that one.

    He mea nui te whanaungatanga?

     

    Pēhea nei?

    Like was, is whanaungatanga important?

     

    Why?

    Koirā te mea nui. Ko te whakawhanaungatanga te mea nui tonu. Nā te mea i wehe ngā tama i ngā kōtiro. I konei mātou ngā tamatāne, ko ngā tamawahine i wāhi kē. Kāore i noho tahi.

    That was the main one. So yeah, whakawhanaungatanga was the main one, because we were separate to the boys. I was over here, Rotorua Girl's High was over here. So, we weren’t a, is it a co-ed?

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    He kura kē, he kura kē. Nō reira, kia hui ki te whakaharatau, ka tū pea ki tō ngā tamawāhine, ki tō ngā tamatāne rānei. Kāore mātou i mōhio ki ngā kōtiro, nō reira ka uru mai ko te whakawhanaungatanga.

    We weren’t a co-ed school. So, when we came for practices, it was either at girl's high, boy's high, don't even know the girls, but then that's where the relationship had to come into play. Yeah.

    He aha tō tino wāhanga?

    What's your favorite item?

    Mēnā au kei te waiata takitahi, ko te tira. Kāo, ehara, ko te whakaeke tonu.

    Ooh. If I'm doing a solo, waiata tira. No, it's got to be whakaeke.

    He aha ai?

    Why's that?

    Nā te mea, ko te whakaeke-

    Oh, because the whakaeke, it's like-

    He auaha?

    Can be creative?

    Āe. He whana kei roto i te tīmatanga pērā. Ana, ki te mau i a koe te marea, ka eke tō tū.

     

    Kia hoki ki te waiata tira. Mēnā ka eke te waiata tira, kātahi ka eke te whakaeke ki taumata kē, ka eke rawa atu te katoa o te tū.

     

     

    Nō reira, ka noho te waiata tira me te whakaeke hei wāhanga matua, nā te mea kia mau i a koe te marea, kua pai noa iho.

     

    Kua mau rātou i a koe ā mutu noa te tū. Ki te kore, ka aroha.

    Yeah. It's just like that upper cut start. And if you got the crowd, then your performance will be on.

     

    Oh, it can go back to the waiata tira. If your waiata tira was on, then whakaeke, just taking it up another level, then your whole performance will be on.

     

    Yeah. So, always made sure their waiata tira and whakaeke will be the main one, because once you get the crowd, you've got them.

     

    And then you've got them from the rest of your performance. If not ka aroha.

    Kua whakakorea koe i te kapa?

    Have you ever been dropped from the team?

    He pātai pai tēnā. I te kura tuarua, i whakakorea rānei ahau? Koirā te tikanga o tō pātai?

    Ooh, that's a good question. At boy's high, have I been dropped? Is that what you mean?

    Ahakoa te kapa.

    Any team.

    Ahakoa te wā, ahakoa te kapa?

    Anywhere, any team?

    I roto rānei koe i tētahi puna tangata e whai ana i tētahi tūranga kotahi?

    Or in a pool of people that are going for a spot?

    Āe. I te tau 2013 tērā. I roto ahau i tētahi puna pērā.

    Yep. Yep. That was us back in 2013, I was part of that pool.

    I pēhea rā?

    What was that like?

    Ko koe tētahi o ngā mea i eke ki te taumata i Waka Huia, nē?

    Oh, yeah. Well, you were one of the top ones in Waka Huia aye.

    He aha hoki.

    Not even.

    Ina anga te titiro ki tua atu i te kura, i uru ahau ki te Waka Huia i te tau 2013, ā, i te tauhou tonu ahau i taua wā.

     

    Tauhou ake nei, kātahi au ka uru ki tētahi kapa i mātakina e au i a au e tipu ana.

     

    Ao te pō, pō te ao, ko tāku he mātaki i a rātou. Ko te tū i te tau 2002 te tino ki a au. Ahakoa i roto i Te Mātārae i Ōrehu ōku tuākana, i te mea ko au tētahi o aua tamariki i ngā haratau e omaoma haere ana, kāore noa iho i te aro atu. 

     

    Kātahi au ka kite i a Waka Huia me tā rātou waiata tira me te whakaeke, wiii, ka mau te iwi i a rātou, ka mau hoki ahau e tamariki tonu ana.

     

    Pō noa, ao noa, ko tāku he mātaki i a rātou. Kātahi ka uru atu ngā tuākana ki Te Waka Huia, ko te rā tuatahi ki taku mahara, i te tau 2003.

    But yeah, so if we're going past school, 2013, yeah, that's when I joined Te Waka Huia. I was still fresh.

     

    Fresh as, going into a team that I actually grew up with.

     

     

    Yeah, watching them 24/7. Especially the 2002 bracket. Yeah. Even though my brothers were in Te Mātārae i Ōrehu I was like, eh, because I was those kids at practice, just run around, don't even pay attention to that. 

     

     

    But then when I saw Waka Huia their waiata tira and whakaeke, ooh, they got everybody, and they got me at a young age.

     

     

    Used to watch them all the time. And then when the brothers joined Waka Huia, the first day I remember, I think it was 2003.

    2004?

    2004?

    I te tau 2003, 2004 rānei, ka tae mātou ki te whakatau.

     

     

    I te taha o Nan rāua ko Koro. I mōhio ahau ki ngā waiata a Waka Huia, ā, i te whakarite rātou mō te whakataetae ā-rohe.

     

    I mahi rātou i ngā waiata katoa, i reira ahau e whakamīharo atu ana. Kātahi ka uru atu ko ngā tuākana, i mōhio ahau ka tae te wā ka tū ahau i roto i Te Waka Huia. 

     

    Ā, i te tau 2013, ka whai wāhi atu ahau. Ana, i roto ahau i taua puna rā. I roto i taua puna. Ka taka a roto i a au i taku noho i taua puna rā, engari-

    Four. Yeah. 2003, 2004, that's when we went to the whakatau with nan and koro. 

     

    Yeah. Because I knew, I knew the Waka Huia bracket, and they were prepping for regionals.

     

    And they'd done the whole bracket, i was sitting there buzzing. And then when the brothers joined up, that was me, because I knew one day, I'll perform for Te Waka Huia. 

     

    And in 2013, yeah, that was my chance. Yeah. And I was in that pool. In that pool. Bit gutted being in the pool, but-

    He pēhea koe i puta ai?

    How did you overcome it then?

    I pātai ahau ki ōku tuākana, ki a Kimi rāua ko Jamus, “Kei te puna ahau ināianei, me pēhea au e puta ai? Whiua mai he kahurewa nā te mea e toromi ana ahau i tēnei wā.”

     

    Engari, kāore rāua i āwhina mai. Ka kī mai, me kimi e koe tōu ake kahurewa.

    Yeah, well, I asked my brothers Kimi and Jamus, just asked them, "I'm in the pool now, how do I get out of the pool? Throw me your fullas life jackets, because I'm drowning at the moment."

     

    But no, they didn't help me. You find your own life jacket. Yeah.

    Ko rāua tērā.

    That sounds like them.

    Nō reira, kāore rāua i tino āwhina mai. Ka mea mai, “Haere ki a Tarps.”

     

    Ko Matua Tarps rāua ko Whaea Annette ngā kaiako. I reira anō a Koro.

     

    I reira a Koro. Engari, ka mea rāua, haere ki a Tups, pātai ai, “He aha tāu e pīrangi nei i a au?”

     

    Āe. Kātahi ka-

    Yeah. So, they didn't really help me at all. But they said, "Go to Tarp's."

     

     

    Uncle Tarp's was the tutor and aunty Annette. Koro was there.

     

     

    Koro was there. But yeah, just told me to go to Tup's Just ask him, "What do you want from me?"

     

    Yeah. And then-

    He aha tāna ki a koe?

    What did he tell you?

    Ka mea au, “Engari mō tēnā. Whakamā ana tērā, ka poroa noatia pea au.” 

     

    Engari, i haere au ki a ia, ka mea, “Kia ora, Uncle Tarps. Kua kite au kei te puna ahau. He aha tāu e pīrangi nei i a au? Me pēhea rānei au e pai ake ai au, kia kore ai au e whakakorea?”

     

    Ka mea mai ia, “Kei a koe te tū, engari e āhua maroke ana te kanohi.”

     

     

    Kia kite atu au ināianei, āe, maroke ana.

    I was like, "Oh, no, I don't want do that. That shames he might just chop me out." 

     

    But I actually went over there, and I went, "Oh, kia ora uncle Tarp's, I see I'm in the pool. What do you want from me, or how can I better myself to not get dropped?"

     

    Yeah. And he just said, "Oh, well, you've got the stance there, but your facials are bland."

     

    Yeah. And then seeing them now, pretty bland all right.

    Nā te aha i kaha ai koe ki te whai i a ia? Nā te mea he uaua tēnā, te haere ki ō kaiako, te haere noa iho ki ō tāua kaiako i Te Waka Huia.

    Yep, so what did it take for you to take the first step, though? Because it's pretty scary going to see your tutors, and even going to see our own tutors in Te Waka Huia.

    He tika tāu.

    Yeah, hard.

    Ko te haere tonu ki a Whaea Annette rāua ko Matua Tarp. Nā te mea e hiahia ana koe kia kaha noa ake tō mahi.

    With Auntie Annette and Uncle Tarp. Because you don't want to, you just want to try and do better.

    Ā, māu anō e whakatutuki, nē?

     

    Heoi anō, kia kōrero mai ia i aua kōrero, ka mea au, “Ka pai. Koirā taku aronga.” Kātahi ka tautoko mai ngā mea pakeke i a au.

     

    Ngā mea pēnā i a Idol, taku karanga ki a ia, arā, ko Tōmika. Ngā mea pēnā i a Hare, me te tangata nui tonu, me Matua Carl. Nāna ahau i āta akiaki. Ka whakanōhia au e ia, “He aha koe e noho nei i te puna?”

     

    Ka mea au, “Ki taku mōhio, nā te mea he kanohi hou ahau, he tamariki tonu. Kei te nui te wā ki a au hei kaihaka mō Waka Huia.” Ka mea mai ia, “Kei te pai. Ki te ngana au kia uru koe, me ngana hoki koe.”

     

    Ka tautoko mai ia i a au. Ko tāku, “Ka tautoko atu au, Matua Carl.” Ko tērā tērā. Ko mātou tērā, e ono karaka i te ata, “Ki te papa.”

    Just do it yourself, hey?

     

    But yeah, no. Well, when he said that to me, I was like, "Oh, cool. I'll focus on that." And then I got a lot of support from all the old ones.

     

    The likes of Idol, I call him, or Tomika. The likes of Hare and the main man himself, Uncle Carl. Yeah. He really pushed me. He actually sat me down and said, "Why are you in the pool?"

     

    Yeah. And I was like, "Oh, I think I'm new, young. I got heaps of time to perform for Waka Huia." And then he goes, "Okay. If I push for you to join the team, you better push yourself."

     

    Got me. I was like, "Got you, Uncle Carl." Yeah. And that was it. That was us. 6:00 AM in the morning. "Hey, on the floor."

    Āe, e omaoma haere ana.

    Yeah. Running around.

    E omaoma haere ana i te marae i ō mātou kahumoe.

    Running around in front of the marae in our pajamas.

    Kaua e whāki ki te katoa.

    Don't tell everyone.

    A koe, i te…kāo, kāo.

    You were. No, no, no, no.

    Ka pai. Nō reira, tō putanga i te puna, i puta rānei koe i te puna?

    Oh yeah, okay, cool. So, getting out of the pool, did you get out of the pool?

    Ehara. Āe. I te tukunga iho, tokowhā mātou i roto i te puna.

     

    Ki taku mōhio, ko te toenga tērā o te tekau mā toru o ngā mea tama kāore i uru ki te kapa.

     

    Kātahi a Matua Tarps ka mea, “Kia mōhio mai, kua hōhā au i te whakakore tangata, nā te uaua hoki.”

     

    Nō reira, ka pēnei tātou, kotahi te rā ki tēnā, ki tēnā o koutou. I a ia āna anō take i pērā ai ia.

     

    Nō reira, tokowhā mātou. Tokorua māua kua whakakorea tonutia atu i te mea he āhua hou māua. He hou, waihoki ka whai ia i ngā piringa.

     

    Nō reira, i mea ia ki te kōwhiri i tērā atu tokorua. Engari kāore ia i pīrangi whakakore i tētahi, nā konā i tukua ai he rā ki tēnā me tēnā.

    I did. Yeah. I did. Oh actually, at first, it came down to four of us.

     

    And I think that was from 13 of the brothers that unfortunately didn't make the team.

     

    And then Uncle Tarp's just said, "You know what? I'm sick of dropping, because it's hard."

     

    So, what we're going to do is give you fellas a day each." So, yeah. He had his reasons.

     

    So, there were four of us. Two of us, he would've dropped us, because we were sort of new. Yeah. New, and he always go to loyalty.

     

    So, yeah. He was going to pick the other two. But he didn't want to drop anyone, so he gave us a day each.

    He uaua tēnā mahi nā te kaiako, nē?

    That's pretty, yeah. It can be a hard call for tutor to do that, aye?

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    Engari i puta tō ihu.

     

    Āe. Ki tōku mōhio e toru wiki e toe ana i mua i Te Matatini. E hia kē nei ngā āhuatanga ka puta pea i roto i taua wā.

     

    Kāore koe i roto i te kapa kia tū rā anō koe i runga te atamira, nē? Koirā te kī mai. He aha rā te take i puta mai, heoi anō ka āhei ahau te tū i ngā rā e rua.

    Yeah. Oh, well, from I think there was three weeks, three weeks until Matatini. Anything can happen from then to the day.

     

    You're not in the team until you're on that stage, aye? That's what we've been told. And then yeah, something had happened, and I was able to slip through to perform both days.

    Nē? I tū koe i ngā rā e rua? Kāore au i mōhio.

    Did you? Did you perform both days? Ah, didn't even notice.

    Ki a koe hoki.

    Sad.

    Nō reira, i te tau 2013 tērā, nē?

    So, that was 2013, aye?

    Āe. Ko taku tū tuatahi tērā. Tū tuatahi, tū whakamutunga anō hoki mō tēnei wā.

    Yeah. So, that was my first stand, first and only stand for now.

    Mō tēnei wā. Me pērā ka tika.

     

    Tū tuatahi, ā, koirā anahe, ā…

    For now. Better be.

     

    First and only stand, and...

    Kei te pūmau tonu ahau. Kāo, me whakaiti, me whakaiti.

    Still hundred percent my sis. No, no, no. Stay humble, stay humble.

    Āna. I ākona mai mātou e Koro kia whakaiti.

     

    Kia hoki ki te kōrero mō te ārahi. I tātaki rānei koe i ētahi o ngā kapa kua tū nei koe?

    Yeah. Yeah, koro taught us to be humble.

     

    So, if we go back to leadership, did you ever lead any of those kapa haka that you've been involved in?

    Āe. I tātaki ahau i ngā kapa rangatahi o Mātaatua ki Rotorua.

    Yep. For Mataatua ki Rotorua with the rangatahi teams. Yep.

    I pēhea tērā? He aha te mahi? He wero?

    Oh, wow. What was that like? What did you have to do? wero?

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    He whaikōrero?

    Whaikōrero?

    Katoa katoa. I pakeke ahau i ngā haratau a Te Mātārae i Ōrehu, ka kite koe i a rātou e mau taiaha ana i ia rā. I a koe e tamariki ana, e mātaki ana koe, e whaiwhai ana koe i a rātou. 

     

    Nō reira, he pūkenga iti ōku ki te mau rākau me ērā mea. Ka whaitake ērā i te Ahurei, ā, nā konā i āhei ai au te whakanikoniko i ngā mahi.

     

     

    I Mātaatua ki Rotorua, e toru pea ngā wā i tātaki ahau i te kapa. E toru ngā wā, ā, i te tau 2010, ko au te kaitātaki tāne mō Raukura.

    All those. Well, I was growing up being at practices with Te Mātārae i Ōrehu, you see them with taiaha every day, and as little kids, you observe, observe and watch what they do, and you copy them. 

     

    So, I had bit of skills with mau rākau and all of that, and yeah, I was able to chuck that into, yeah at the Ahurei, able to do my little flurries and all of that.

     

    Yeah. And then, so yeah, Mataatua ki Rotorua, I think I lead maybe three.

    Three times, and then I was male leader in 2010 for Raukura.

    Me pēhea te tangata e tū ai ia hei kaitātaki? Me tū noa ki mua, tātaki mai ai i te kapa, me whai rānei koe i ētahi atu pūkenga e pai ai tō tautoko i tō kapa?

    Yeah. So, what does it take to be a leader? Just go out the front and lead, or are there other skills that you need to be able to support your team?

    Ki ahau nei, i a au e tamariki ana, e tātaki ana i te kapa i te Hui Ahurei a Tūhoe, koirā noa iho kei ngā whakaaro. Ko au te kaitātaki i te kapa nei, koinei aku mahi, koinei taku tūranga. Kia manawanui mai, i kuraina ahau ki te kura waenga o Mokoia.

     

    Ko au te kaitātaki mō ngā tau e rua i taua kura. Ko te kaitātaki taku whakaaro matua, kātahi au ka tae ki Raukura, hei teina. I te pōhēhē ahau, “Āe, ko ahau hei kaitātaki, ā, taihoa ake.” Kāore au i tohua hei kaitātaki. Ka ohorere ahau.

    Yeah. Well, I think for myself, being so young, leading a team at Te Hui Ahurei a Tūhoe, and then that's all you got in your brain is just, "Oh, I'm a leader of this group. I've got to do this. I know my roles." Even at sorry, I attended Mokoia Intermediate.

     

    I was the leader both years for that kura. And then I just had leader in my head. And then come to Raukura, junior. Here's me thinking, "Oh yeah, I'll be leader. Oh, hold up." Yeah, I didn't get the leader part. And then it shocked me.

    He aha tāu i ako ai i tērā, TK?

    So, what did you learn from that TK.

    Āe, kaua e…e aua. Kōrero mai.

    Yeah. Don't be, I don't know what. Go on say it.

    Kaua e whakahīhī.

    Fathead.

    Āe, nā te mea i te whakaaro noa iho ahau hei kaitātaki. “Ka pai, ko au hei kaitātaki. Ka pai.” Engari kia tū au hei toa i te taha o ērā atu tama, ka rawe ki a au. He rerekē anō. Kia tae ki te tau 2010, taku tau whakamutunga, kāore au i pīrangi hei kaitātaki. I pīrangi noa iho ahau ki te tū hei toa.

     

    Engari i te mea he kaiako taku tuakana, kei reira hoki taku pāpā e tautoko mai ana i ia haratau, nō reira kāore he huringa ake.

    Yeah. I think, yeah, it's just because I just had leader in my head. "Oh yeah, I'll be the leader. All good." But then, when I became a soldier with the boys, I actually loved it. Mean something different. Yeah. And then, come 2010, my last year, I didn't even want to be a leader. I just wanted to be a soldier.

     

    But having a brother as the tutor and having your dad behind the scenes at every practice, you have no choice, pretty much.

    He tino kaiwhakaaweawe tō pāpā. Kei kō ia e kōrero hāngai ana he aha te aha, nē?

    Nah, man. Your dad is an awesome inspiration. He stands from the side, he tells you black and white, aye?

    Koia.

    Pretty much.

    He rawe a Matua Alfred. Nō reira, te tūranga kaitātaki, he nui te wāhi ki a koe hei tātaki i te kapa o Raukura i te tau 2010. I pēhea a Raukura i ngā whakataetae ā-motu? I pēhea hoki tērā ki a koe?

    No, he's pretty cool matua Alfred. Okay, cool. So, the leadership role, you played a big part in leading Raukura back in 2010. Yeah, how did Raukura get on in that national? And what was that like?

    I pai tonu. I pai. I pai te kaupapa me ngā haratau. I kaha te hononga i waenganui i te kura tamawahine me te kura tamatāne.

     

    Ana, i tuarua mātou i tērā tau. Ko Rītana te toa i tērā tau.

     

    I rawe anō te wheako. Ki taku mōhio, i a mātou i tuarua rā, ko tō mātou ekenga tuatahitanga tērā ki ngā tūranga toa e toru nei.

    Yeah. Oh, it was cool. It was cool. The campaign, the practices were awesome. Girl's high and boy's high, we had this bond with each other.

     

    And yeah, well we come second that year. Ritana won that year.

     

    But yeah, no, it was an awesome experience. I think us coming second, I think that was the first time Raukura made top three, I think.

    Kia pai hoki.

    Wow, cool.

    Ngā tūranga toa e toru. Ki tōku mōhio rā. Ko mātou ngā mea i whakamātautauria.

    Top three. And then yeah, I think so. I think we were the trial and error.

    Koirā tāu i mua ake nei, nē?

     

    Kia tahuri ki te waiata me te mōhio o te katoa, he pai koe ki te waiata. Ko Aotearoa whānui kei te mōhio ki tō pai ki te waiata. Nō reira, kia kōrero iti tāua mō te tito me te waiata, he pēhea nei te hirahira o te mōhio ki te tikanga o tāu e waiata nā, arā, te oro?

    Yeah, as you said earlier, aye?

     

    So, if we get to singing, and we all know that you can sing. The whole of Aotearoa knows that you can sing. So, if we talk about a little bit about composition and singing, how important is it to know what you are singing, the note?

    He hirahira tonu.

    Oh, very important.

    He aha ai?

    Why?

    Kātahi rā.

    Far out.

    I te kōrero mai koe mō ngā tangiata i mua ake nei.

     

    Me te ako i ngā tangiata me ērā mea, me te mōhio mō āhea waiata ai, me tō mahi ki te kimi i ngā wāhanga rerekē hei hāpai i te rangi matua me te āhua o te tūhono i aua mea rā.

     

    He aha i hirahira ai tērā?

    You were talking about the keys before.

     

    And learning the notes and stuff and knowing where to sing and helping find the different parts to the melody and how they can blend.

     

     

    Yeah, so why is that important?

    Kia kī ake au, mā tērā e kaha ake ai te oro a te rōpū, nē?

     

    Ka kaha ake te oro, ā, kātahi mātou ka āhei te kimi i ngā rangi i te patooro, nō reira, noho mai, kāore i te tika tētahi mea. Nō reira, kua haere ki te patooro, patopato ai. Ana, whakamātauria tēnei oro. Anana!

     

    E hika, kātahi ka puta i a au a Hareruia. I puta ake tērā i hea?

    Oh, because say it, fattens the sound in the group, aye?

     

    Fattens the sound. And we've got that advantage of trying to find notes on the keyboard, so sit there, oh, something sounds off. All right, go on the keys, ding ding ding. Oh yeah. Oh, try this note. Yeah. dah dah dah dah.

     

    Yeah. Holy hecka i just done Hallelujah. I don't know where that come from.

    Kia tahuri tāua ki te hāhi.

    Well, let's get into Hāhi.

    Hika mā, ka pai.

    Oh, hecka. All right.

    I tētahi pēne koe, i whai wā rānei koe ki te uru ki Rātana, tutū haere ai?

    Were you ever in the band, or did you ever get the opportunity to go and join Rātana and have a tutu there?

    Kāo. I hiahia au ki te pērā nā ō mātou whaea, mātua kei Pōneke. Auē, ka rīria au ināianei, i taku kore mōhio ki te ingoa.

    Nah. Well, I wanted to, because our aunties and uncles in Wellington, oh geez. I'm going to get a growling now, because I don't know the name.

    E pai ana, ko ngā whaea me ngā mātua.

    Just aunties and uncles is okay. 

    Kei te mōhio au ki ō rātou ingoa, engari kāore au i te mōhio ki te tae, ki te waiporoporo.

     

    Heoi anō, ka aroha rā. Kua haere mai rātou, noho mai ai ki te kāinga, e whakatangi ana i ngā taonga puoro. Ka hiahia raweke mātou. Kāore rātou i whakaae mai.

    Oh, I know their names, but I don't know the name of the color, purple.

     

     

    Ah, yeah. Anyways, ka aroha. But yeah, so they used to come over, stay over home, playing with the instruments. We wanted to have a jam. They won't let us.

    Nā te mea he tohu nō te atua, nē?

    Because it’s a sign from God aye?

    Ae kei te tika.

    That’s right.

    Nō reira, ko te tūhono i te hāhi me te kapa haka. He aha ō whakaaro ki tēnā kauapapa

    So merging hāhi and kapa haka. What do you think about that?

    Rawe. Āe, I whakaae ki tērā ō rā kaupapa. Titiro ki a Te Reanga Mōrehu. Hika mā!

    It’s great. I agree with that. It's just, yeah. Look at Te Reanga Mōrehu. Holy hecka

    He rawe ki te waiata.

    I know. Yeah. Pretty amazing singers.

    Kia kī atu au, he nui ngā pūkenga kei te Hāhi Rātana. He tokomaha rātou. Arā ngā māhanga, ko Ruia rāua ko Rānea. Ko wai atu?

    Yeah. Oh, I must say, there's a lot of talent from Te Hāhi Rātana. There's a few of them. You got the two brothers, the māhanga's Ria and Rania . Who else? 

    Ko Te Taepa.

    Te Taepa.

    Ko Te Taipa. He rawe ki te tito.

    Te Taepa. You know? Awesome composer.

    Āe, he kaiwaiata hoki.

    Singer.

    Āe, he kaiwaiata. 

    Yeah, singer.

    He reo rōreka.

    Beautiful voice.

    Arā a Stan Walker. Nō te Hāhi Rātana ia.

    Yep. Oh, Stan Walker. He's from The Rātana Church.

    Wiii.

    Oh, wow.

    Ko Jackson Owens.

    Jackson Owens.

    Wiii, kia pai hoki.

    Wow, cool.

    Ko TK Webster.

    TK Webster.

    Kātahi rā. Ko wai tērā?

    Bloody hell. Who's that?

    Kei te piki ake ia.

    Up and coming. Nah.

    Kia hoki tāua ki te waiata. Kua tae koe ki hea rā i te ao nā te waiata? Kua huri koe i te ao nā te waiata? Kua huri koe i te ao nā te kapa haka?

    So, if we get back into singing, where has singing taken you around the world? Has it taken you around the world? Has kapa haka taken you around the world?

    Āe, kua huri au i te ao nā te kapa haka. Ehara i te mea kua huri i te ao.

     

     

    Āe, kua waimarie mātou ki te haere ki tāwāhi. 

     

    Ko te tuatahi o ngā haerenga ki tāwāhi, ko Haina i te tau 2012. Ko Raukura tērā.

    Yeah. kapa haka has taken me around the world. I wouldn't say around the world.

     

    But yeah, we've been lucky to travel overseas.

     

    So, I think yeah, our first overseas trip would be China, 2012. Rotorua Boy's High.

    Āe, i te kura?

    Yeah. Oh, with kura

    Āe. I mutu te kura. Kātahi ka mea mai ngā tuākana, “E haria ana e māua tētahi kapa ki Haina.”-

    Yeah. So, I finished school. And then when the brothers said, "Oh, we're taking a group of boys over to China-

    I kuhu atu koe?

    You jumped on?

    Āe, ka kuhu au. Ehara, ehara. Ka mea au, “Mai anō i te tau 2006 ki te tau 2010 e tatari ana au kia pēnei.” Engari kāore mātou i haere. 

     

     

    Nō reira, me tatari kia mutu rā anō te kura kātahi mātou ka wātea ki te haere ki Haina. Nō reira, i pōhiritia mātou, ā, ka kuhu atu au.

     

    Ka piki au i te waka rā.

    Yeah, I jumped on. Of course, I jumped on. I was like, "Far, you know I've been waiting from 2006, 2010 for this opportunity." Yeah. And it didn't come up. 

     

    Yeah. And then got to wait till we finished high school, and then, oh, we're going on a trip to China. Yeah. So, we got invited. So, I jumped on board.

     

    Jumped on board, and-

    He aha te kaupapa?

    What was the kaupapa?

    Ko te kaupapa, ko Te Wiki o Aotearoa ki reira.

     

    Arā hoki tētahi rōpū nō Te Moana-a-Kiwa e tū ana i Macau i tērā wā. I mōhio a Jamus, tō mātou kaiako, ki tētahi o ngā mea e whakahaere ana i te kaupapa.

     

    Ka tūhonohono rāua ki a rāua, ka īmēra rāua ki a rāua, ka pōhiritia mātou ki Macau. 

     

    Āe, kei Haina a Macau. E hika.

    The kaupapa, I think it was New Zealand Week over there.

     

    Yeah. And there was a Polynesian group performing in Macau at the time. And Jamus, the tutor, knew one of the guys running it.

     

     

    So, they hooked up, emailed each other, and then they invited us to Macau.

     

     

    Yeah, Macau in China. Holy.

    I pēhea tērā? Ko tō haerenga tuatahitanga tērā ki tāwāhi?

    So, what was that like as your - Was it your first trip overseas?

    Āe, ko tōku tuatahi tērā.

    Yep. It was.

    I pēhea rā? He aha tāu i kite ai? I huri anō tō ao?

    What was that like? What did you see? Did it change your life?

    Āe. Ka ngākaunui ake ahau ki te kāinga i te kite i ngā āhuatanga o reira, e waimarie ana mātou o konei.

    Yep. You appreciate home. Appreciate home more. Yep. Seeing what they go through over there, we're lucky what we've got here.

    Nō reira, i hoki mai koe ki te kāinga, mahi ai i ngā rīhi, i ngā moenga?

    Yep. So, you came home and started doing all the dishes and making your bed, and-

    Koia, koia. 

    Oh yeah, hard out, hard out. 

    Me te hari atu i te rāpihi.

     

    Nō reira, ko ngā wheako i pā ki a koe i a koe i Haina, i tō tū ki te haka, i pēhea ngā iwi taketake i mātaki i a koutou?

    Putting the rubbish out.

     

    No, so the experience over in China, when you stood and performed, what were those indigenous peoples like, watching you perform?

    Taihoa, kia hoki ki ngā kōrero mō Macau me ngā mea nō Te Moana-a-Kiwa?

     

    I te tīmatanga, i te mea he tāne katoa, i te tīmatanga o tā mātou tū, i te mea nō Tahiti rātou me Ngā Kuki Airani, i te tangi rātou.

    Oh, sorry. Going back to Macau with the Polynesians...

     

     

    When we started, because it was all boys when we started our performance, because they were from Tahiti, and I think the Cook Islands, they were crying.

    I te tangi?

    Crying?

    Āna, ko ngā tāne e haka ana, e waiata ana. I te tangi rātou he whakamomori nō rātou ki te kāinga. I reira pea rātou mō tētahi wā roa. I te kitenga i tērā, i a rātou e tangi pērā ana, ka pā mai te aroha. Arā mātou, he mahi tēnei i ia rā mā mātou. 

     

     

    Na, ka kite atu i tērā, ka mōhio mātou e tika ana tā tātou mahi, e tama mā. Kia ū tonu, kia ū tonu. Kātahi ka nuku mātou ki Shanghai, ki reira tū ai mō Te Aka Aorere o Aotearoa. Ko taua mahi tonu rā i ngā wā katoa. Ko taua rite tonu rā.

    We were, yeah, all boys doing the haka or singing songs. They were crying because they were missing home. Oh. So, they must have been over there for a while. Yeah. So, seeing that, you know, seeing them cry like that is like, oh, far real. And here's us. This is an everyday thing for us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

     

    Yeah. And seeing that it's like, oh chur, we're doing something right boys. That's the one, keep it up. And then (we) moved over to Shanghai to perform there for the New Zealand embassy. Yep. And yeah, it was the same thing all the time. Same thing.

    I taua tau tonu, i tū koe i Te Ipu o Te Ao, nē?

    Well, that year you also got to do the World Cup, didn't you?

    Āe. Āe, ko Te Ipu Whutupōro o Te Ao i te tau 2011.

    Yeah. Yeah, the Rugby World Cup 2011.

    Ko te tau i mua atu. I pēhea te whakatuwhera i Te Ipu o Te Ao?

    And oh right, so the year before. So, what was that like opening up the Rugby World Cup?

     

    Kāore nei he kupu.

    I waimarie mātou. I waimarie mātou i a Te Mātārae i Ōrehu, i a Papa Dubai rānei, koirā taku karanga ki a ia, ki a Wētini. 

     

    Ko ia taku matua i Dubai. Heoi anō, i waimarie rā, nāna i whakatuwhera ōna kūwaha kia tū ai mātou i te taha o Te Mātārae.

     

    Kātahi nā te wheako rawe.

    [whistle].

     

    That's all I could say is [whistle]. Yeah, no, we were lucky. We were lucky that Te Matarae I o Rehu, or Papa Dubai, I call him, or Wetini. 

     

    Yeah, so he was my dad over in Dubai. Oh, anyways, yeah. Lucky he was, yeah, he opened his doors for us to perform with Te Matarae.

     

    That was a mean experience.

    Āe, he aha i rawe ai?

    Yea, why was it mean?

    E whakaatu noa ana i tō tātou ahurea ki te ao, e tū ana i mua i ngā tāngata e 60,000. Engari i kī mai ngā kaiwhakaputa, “E tū ana koutou i mua i te piriona tāngata.”

     

    E, hika, e. He hōnore tonu.

    Just showcasing our culture to the world, performing in front of 60,000 people. But when the producers of the opening, they said, "Oh, you's are actually performing to a billion people."

     

    Holy hell. Yeah. No, it was an honor.

    I pēhea te ihi me te wehi?

    Yeah. What was the ihi and wehi like then?

    I inati tonu. Kua waia ki te tū i te atamira me te rongo i te marea, engari kia puta koe ki te papa kaiaka porohita nei, kātahi rā, “Whuuu.” Rere ana te ihiihi.

    Ooh. Was out the gate. Yeah. Used to being on stage. We were used to being on stage and getting the reaction from that crowd. But then when you step out into the stadium to 360 crowd, and it's like, "Faaaa." Yeah, it's wicked.

    I haka koutou ki ngā tahataha katoa kotahi noa iho rānei te taha?

    Yeah, and you had to perform to all sides, or did you just have one side?

    I ngā haratau, kāore i rerekē te tū, ko taua tū tonu rā. Engari ka toko ake te whakaaro i a Papa Dubai, i a Wētini rānei, “Ka pēhea ngā mea i muri?” Kātahi ia ka whakawehe i a mātou, ana, ka pērā.

     

    I huri mātou hei tapawhā.

    So, at practices, we were performing just normal, how we usually do it. But then when Papa Dubai, or Wetini, when he realized, "Far, what about the ones at the back?" So, he split us up, and we were doing it like that.

     

    Yeah. Facing that transition back into a square.

    Wiii, ka rawe.

    Wow. Cool.

    Koia kei a ia.

    Yeah. Oh, he's got a good eye, that fella

    Na, ka karangahia ia ko Papa Dubai e koe. I pērā ai, he noho nāu i Dubai mō te wā poto ki te mahi haka?

    So, you call him Papa Dubai. Is that because you lived in Dubai for a little bit and doing some performing arts?

    Āe, i pērā au. I te tau 2013, i muri iho i taku tū ki Te Matatini.

     

    I muri iho i tā tāua tū, ka tangi mai te waea, “Kei te hiahia haere koe ki Dubai?” Ehara. Kāore au i mōhio kei hea a Dubai. Engari i whakaae au. I haere noa atu au.

    Kia titiro atu au, kātahi au ka kite, “Wiii, kei tawhiti pāmamao i te kāinga.”

     

    Kāore anō au i tawhiti i te kāinga.

    I did. Yep. 2013, after my performance for Te Matatini.

     

    After our performance, yeah, got the call up, "You want to go to Dubai?" Took it. Didn't even know where Dubai was. I just took it. I just went.

     

    Yeah. Until I had a look. I was like, "Oh, far, that's far away from home."

     

     

    Yeah, never been away from home.

    E hia te roa o tō noho i reira?

    Yeah. How long were you over there for?

    E hika, e rima tau? Āe, e rima rau. Atu i te tau 2013…taihoa ake. Kia tatau au. Āe, e rima tau.

    Oh geez, five years? Yeah, five years. 2013... Hang on, I'm going to do my maths now. 2013, '14, '15, '16, '17. Yeah, five years.

    E rima tau. I te aha koe i reira?

    Kōrero mai mō ngā wheako i pā ki a koe i reira. I tū koe ki te haka, nē?

    Five years. What were you doing over there? Give us a little bit of an insight to your experiences over there. You performed, did you? 

    Āe. Tokowhā mātou, ā, ko mātou tokowhā e tū ana i te Hōtera o JW Marriott. I te hōtera rā tētahi wharekai e kīia ana ko Bamboo Lagoon.

     

    Ko te kaupapa, ko Te Moana-a-Kiwa, nō Āhia ngā kai, ā, ko mātou ngā kaiwhakangahau.

    Yeah. So, there were four of us. Four of us, and then we're performing in JW Marriott Hotel. In the hotel was a restaurant called Bamboo Lagoon.

     

    So, it was a Polynesian theme, Asian cuisine, and we were the entertainment.

    Ka pai. He aha, he haka, he waiata te mahi?

    Oh, right. So, anything, haka's, singing?

    Ko ngā mahi haka. I te iwi e kai ana, i waiata noa iho mātou i ngā waiata e mōhiotia nuitia ana, ko ngā waiata ngāwari nei.

     

    He waiata pai, ā, i muri iho i tahuri ki ngā mahi haka, ki te tū a te kapa haka. Ka pai ki a rātou, ā, i muri iho i tērā he waiata kareoke te mahi.

     

     

    Ko te whāinga kia kanikani mai te katoa.

    Haka's. Oh, so yeah, for the first bit when everybody's having their dinner, we just play cover songs, nice, chilled music.

     

    Some nice music, and then afterwards you go straight into our haka's, our kapa haka performance. Yeah. Goes off, and then just singing pretty much karaoke songs after that.

     

    Try to get everybody dancing, and yeah.

    E rima tau te roa?

    So, that was for five years?

    Āe, koirā taku mahi e ono rā i te wiki mō ngā tau e rima. Engari, he rite tonu tā mātou hokihoki ki te kāinga.

     

    Mō te marama kotahi i ia tau. I taua wā, ka whai ngā whānau Muhirama i te kaupapa o Ramatana.

    I was doing that, yeah, six days a week for five years. Yeah. Oh, but then we always came home.

     

    Every year for a whole month. At that time, that's when the Muslim whānau, they go through their Ramadan.

    Āe, Ramatana.

    Right. Ramadan.

    I te wā o Ramatana, ka whakatiki rātou. Nō reira, i wātea mātou ki te hoki ki te kāinga, noho ai mō te marama katoa.

    Ramadan is when they fast. So, we were able to come home and spend time there for a whole month.

    Kātahi ka hoki anō?

    And then boot back.

    Āe, ka hoki anō ki te mahi i aua mahi tonu rā.

    Back again and do the same routine.

    Wiii, whakaarotia ake mēnā tāua i whakatiki mō te marama kotahi.

    Faa, just imagine if you and I fasted for a month.

    Hey...

    Eei…

    Kia aroha mai. 

    Sorry. Anyway... 

    Heoi anō Kua karanga mai a Papa Dubai, “Ē, piri mai ki a Te Mātārae i Ōrehu. Ka tika tō noho i te taha o ngā mea pakauaua, nē?”

    Papa Dubai will be calling, "Oh, come and join Te Matarae Orehu. Oh, you'll fitting in with those muscly fellas, aye?"

    Ka pai. Nō reira, arā ngā wheako katoa mai i reira, ināianei ka whakarerekē koe i tētahi mea?

    Cool, so Dubai, so all of the experiences over there, would you change a thing?

    Tēnā, kōrero mai anō.

    Hmm. Say that again?

    Ka whakarerekē koe i tētahi mea?

    Would you change anything?

    Kāo, karekau. I Dubai, i whakapakari ake au i aku pūkenga piana.

     

     

    I whakapakari ake au i aku pūkenga piana, he nui ngā akoranga.

     

    Kei Dubai ngā iwi katoa kei te wāhi kotahi, e ako ana i ngā ahurea rerekē, i ngā tāngata rerekē, pai mai, kino mai, heoi anō he ako te mahi mā te noho tahi ki ēnei tāngata, ka pā mai ngā wheako, ā, i rawe ki a 

    au.

     

    Āe, he tokomaha ngā Māori kei reira. He kapa haka kei reira, ko te ingoa ko Ngāti Koraha.

    No. No, I wouldn't. Yeah. So, over in Dubai, that's where I upskilled in my piano.

     

    Yeah. Upskilled in my piano, a lot of learnings.

     

    So, in Dubai, you've got heaps of nationalities in one spot, learning different cultures, different people. Good and bad, but just learning, being around those people, the experience. It was wicked.

     

     

    Yeah. A lot of Māori over there. There's a kapa haka team over there called Ngāti Koraha.

    Wiii.

    Wow.

    Āe, he kaiako, he rōia rātou, engari kia tū tētahi hui taumata, tētahi kaupapa rānei e pā ana ki te Māori, arā, kia whakatūria e Te Aka Aorere o Aotearoa tētahi kaupapa, kua karangahia te kapa haka nei.

     

    He pēnei rātou i a wai, i a Ngāti Rānana.

    Yeah. So, they're teachers, lawyers, but then when there's a conference or anything to do with Māori, so the New Zealand embassy, they'll put on something, they'll call upon this kapa haka.

     

    They're pretty much like, is it Ngāti Rānana

    Ngāti Rānana.

    Ngāti Rānana.

    Āe. Nō reira, kei Dubai tōna anō kapa, ko Ngāti Koraha.

    Yeah. So, they've got them in Dubai, have got their own Ngāti Koraha

    Wiii, kia pai hoki.

    Wow, cool.

    Nā Ed Tuari. I Waka Huia hoki ia. I te whakahaere ia i te kapa.

     

    Its Ed Tuari. He used to be in Waka Huia, as well. He was running the team. Yeah.

    He tokomaha rātou kua puta i Te Waka Huia, kua haere ki tāwāhi. He pai tēnā. He tohutohu āu ki ngā ākonga e hiahia ana ki te haere ki waho ki te tūhura i te ao me te whakamahi i ā tātou toi, i tō tātou ahurea hei waka kawe i a rātou ki te ao?

    There are heaps of them aye that have gone out of Waka's and gone overseas. Yeah, that's cool. Would you give any advice to students who want to go out and see the world and use their art form, our culture, as a vehicle to be able to experience the world?

    Ki ahau nei, ina takoto ki mua i a koe te mānuka, kawea ake. Koirā tāku. Ki te mea mai tētahi, “Kei te hiahia haere koe ki Haina āpōpō?” Kāti, haere. He tokomaha nō ā tātou tamariki e mataku ana ki te mahi i tērā.

     

    Engari ki ahau nei, mahia atu. Ahau nei, i waimarie.

     

     

    Te haerenga ki Haina, e haere ana ki Haina. E haere atu ana au, i te taha o ōku tuākana, ā, i te haumaru ahau. Engari, kia tonoa ahau kia haere ki Dubai, i mahia noatia.

     

    Ā, kāore au i hoki mai mō ngā tau e rima. Nō reira, mahia atu.

    I think if you're given the opportunity, take it. That's all I could say. If someone goes, "You want to go to China tomorrow?" Go. Because you know, we've got a lot of our tamariki that are scared to take that extra step.

     

     

    Yeah. But I reckon just take it and give it a go. Yeah. That's where I was lucky.

     

    China trip, we're going to China. Oh yeah, I'm coming. With my brothers, I was safe. But when I got asked to go to Dubai, I just took it.

     

     

    And then I didn't come back five years later. Yeah. So, it's just give it a go.

    Hūkerekere.

    Yeah. Get in there.

    Mahia atu, karawhiua.

    Get in there and just do it.

    Hei whakatepe noa ake, i whiwhi koe i tētahi tohu i Raukura, arā, ko te tohu kairangi mō te rangatahi.

    So, just to wrap us up, you won an award at Raukura at Rotorua Boy's High, which was the young achiever's award.

    Āe.

    Yep.

    I whiwhi hoki ō tuākana i tērā.

    So did your older brothers.

    Āe.

    Yep.

    Me Talitha.

    And Talitha.

    Āe.

    Yep.

    He aha tērā tohu?

    What is that award?

    Nō reira, he tohu mō ngā mahi haka. Ka kōwhiri rātou i ētahi, tokohia? 12, 10 rānei ngā ākonga i ia kura. Arā ngā mea e eke panuku ana i te hākinakina, i te pūtaiao, i te aha rā, i te aha rā.

    Yep. Yeah, it is. So, it's the Māori performing arts. Yeah. So, they pick out maybe, how many? 12 or 10 students from each school. So, you've got your excellence in sports, excellence in science, so on, so on.

    Koia, koia.

    Oh, right, yeah, yeah.

    Me ngā mea e eke ana i te kapa haka.

     

    Ana, i waimarie mātou ki te whiwhi i te tohu mō ngā mahi haka. Katoa mātou i whiwhi i tērā. Ko Kimiora, ko Jamus, ko Talitha, tērā atu parata nō mātou. Kāore, ko Talitha tō mātou tuahine, ko au hoki. Kua whiwhi hoki āku irāmutu, me ā rātou nei tamariki, i te tohu nei.

     

    Nō reira,

    And yeah, excellence in Māori performing arts.

     

    Yeah. So yeah, we were lucky to get the excellence award in Māori performing arts. All of us got it. Kimiora, Jamus, Talitha, our other brother. No, sorry. Talitha our sister, myself. But then from there, it's gone through my nieces and nephews, all their kids.

     

    Yeah, so-

    A Baz?

    Baz?

    A Baz. He toa ā-motu ia, tau atu, tau mai. I te tau 2018, i te tau 2016. I ia tau i Raukura, ka whakawhiwhia ia ki te tohu kairangi. Kātahi ka whakawhiwhia ki tōna whanaunga, ki a Tāwhao, ki a mātou hoki

    Baz. He's a national champ, back-to-back. 2018, what was the other? 2016? Yep. So, 2016, 2018 back-to-back for Raukura, excellence award. Then his cousin, Tawhao, got it, as well. And then yeah, we just got

    Ki a koutou katoa.

    The rest of you all.

    Ko te tūmanako, āe.

    Hopefully the rest.

    E rima tekau tamariki anō.

    50 kids to go to.

    He āhua pērā, āe.

    Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah.

    He rawe te kōrero ki a koe i te rā nei, TK. Mēnā koe ka whakaaro ki ētahi mea e toru mō te ao haka hei tohutohu ki ā tātou tamariki, he aha aua mea e toru rā?

    Very. It's been so awesome talking to you today, TK. If you were to think of three things around te ao haka that could be advice to our tamariki, what would those three key things be?

    Wīare. He tohutohu? 

     

    Ka hoki au ki a Nan rāua ko Koro me ā rāua akoranga mai. Ko te mea nui, ko te whakaiti, ko te whakaiti, ko te whakaiti. Ko tētahi atu mea, ā, māu e whakapākehā mai, “If the mind is free and clear and the spirit is free flowing, anything is achievable.” He aha te whakapākehātanga?

    Oh, geez. Advice? 

     

    I'll probably go back to nan and koro and their teachings. The main thing is ko te whakaiti, ko te whakaiti, ko te whakaiti and another one is, you can translate this one for me too cuz whakatauki, ki te wātea te hinengaro me te kaha ō te rere ō te wairua ka tāea ngā mea katoa. What does that translate?

    “Ki te wātea te hinengaro me te kaha o te rere o te wairua ka taea ngā mea katoa.”

    If the mind is free and clear and the spirit is free flowing, anything is achievable

    Hareruia.

    Hallelujah.

    Ka rawe, e te tungāne. i runga nō i tērā, e mihi ana ki a koe TK mō te whakawātea i ā koe i tēnei wā nei mō tēnei kaupapa me te tuku mai ō whakaaro me te whakakatahia ā taua i roto i tēnei kōrerorero. Kia tau i hora ngā makaankitanga ki runga i ā koe. Tēnā rā koe.

    That's mean, bro. Well, on that note, thank you, TK, for making yourself available today to participate in this project and for sharing your thoughts and giving us a laugh along the way. I wish you many blessings. Thank you.

    Kia ora e tuāhine.

    Thank you, sister.

     

    [ Accordion ]

    Music in the background continues through the whole introduction with opening scene of the beach side with rakau. Camera shot of marae and changes to drive past ocean as visual changes to a bay with a log on the beach and water and trees in background. Camera then pans ground level across the beach showing seaweed and then shows coastal shore with rocks and water in the background. Wave crashes around rock and shows close-up on water breaking close to rocks. Camera view of a sign saying “Nau mai, haere mai, you are entering the tribal lands of Te Whanau a Apanui. Next taking a drive into the rohe surrounded by ngahere. Camera then pans with a jetty and ocean and a small community in the background surrounded by hills. Quick visuals of Waihau Bay Lodge and changing visual to a park where the swings are moving with other obstacles in background. Camera pans across the water and down the jetty where the words Te Whānau-a-Apanui appear and screen goes black with Te Whanau a Apanui still showing before the words Te Ao Haka appear. Music stops as the camera focuses on the 2 people sitting on chairs set up for the interview.

     

    Te Reo Māori

    English

    Kei te uri o Tūwhare, a Erina nau mai haere mai ki tā tātou nei kaupapa, anā, ko te ao haka tēnā. Hei rauemi mō ā tātou tamariki, mokopuna. Nau mai rā, whakatau mai rā, tēnā ko wai koe?  Nō hea koe?

    To you, Erina, the descendant of Tūwhare, welcome to our show, that is Te Ao Haka. This will serve as a resource for our children, and grandchildren. Welcome. Please tell us who you are and where you’re from.

    Tēnā tātou, oti rā tēnā koe. Ko Erina Demant tōku ingoa. Ko Rangipaua te maunga. Ko Hāparapara te awa, ko Te Whānau-a-Rutaia te hapū, ko Otuwhare te marae, ko Te Whānau a Apanui te iwi. Ko tēnei he uri anō hoki nō Te Whakatōhea. Nō Ngāti Pūkeko anō hoki i tērā taha ki taku pāpā. Engari, tūturu tonu taku tū ki roto o Te Whānau a Apanui hei raukura mō te iwi.

    Greetings to all. My name is Erina Demant. Rangipaua is the mountain, Hāparapara is the river, Te Whānau-a-Rutaia is the sub-tribe, Otuwhare is the marae, Te Whānau a Apanui is the tribe. I am also a descendant of Te Whakatōhea and Ngāti Pūkeko on my father’s side. But I stand staunchly in my genealogy of Te Whānau a Apanui.

    Tēnā koe, tēnā koe, tēnā tāua i tā tātou nei kaupapa. 

    Acknowledgements to all for this initiative.

    Ka ruku atu tāua ki tō haere i te ao haka. He aha ētahi o ō maharatanga tuatahi i te ao haka?

    We are just going to get a little bit into your journey around haka.  What was the earliest moments of your life in haka?

    He mema pūmau taku māmā o Te Rōpū Kapa Haka o Te Whānau a Apanui, a Vicki Demant, i piki rā ki te tūranga kaitātaki o Te Whānau a Apanui. Nā reira ko taku maharatanga tuatahi ko te omaoma haere i ngā rārangi me te pakeke tahi mai ki a Tamati Waaka me Kiri Tahana Savage. Āua āhuatanga katoa.

     My mother was a staunch member of Te Rōpū Kapa Haka o Te Whānau a Apanui, Vicki Demant, who then moved on to being the leader for Te Whānau a Apanui, so my earliest memory is probably running through lines and being raised with people like and Tamati Waaka and Kiri Tahana Savage and things like that. 

    Āe. I whītikina ō rātou piupiu? Mahi hīanga?

    Did you used to touch their piupius or anything mischief?

    Āe. Ko aku maharatanga o te noho hei tamaiti i Te Whānau a Apanui ko te whanaungatanga ki ētahi atu tamariki. Āe. I whai wāhi mātou ki te hunga pēnei i a uncle Joe Ngatoroi rāua ko aunty Faith, i hari mai nei i ā rāua tamariki. Uncle Ned rāua ko aunty Karen i hari mai i a Tama. 

     

    Nē, e pakari tonu ana taua momo whanaungatanga ā mohoa nei. I te wāhi ki te haka, i whakaaetia tā mātou pērā.  I whakaaetia ngā pātanga atu. I whakaaetia tā mātou tū ki ngā rārangi me te waiata, ā, e pērā tonu ana ā mohoa nei i tō mātou kapa. He whānau tamariki te mahi i te wā nei. Nō hea e taea te tamaiti te whakanoho. Āe. Ko ahau tērā nōku e tamariki ana. 

     

     

    Āe, nō reira te pā, te rongo, te titiro aua momo tairongo katoa, he mea nui ā mohoa nei.

    Yeah, I think my memories of being a Whānau a Apanui child were things like making strong relationships with the other tamariki. So, we had like Uncle Joe Ngatoro and Aunty Faith who bought their tamariki. Uncle Ned and Aunty Karen who bought Tama. 

     

     

    So, you know, those connections between us still remain at the moment, but yeah, in terms of haka, we were allowed, we were allowed to touch, ki te pā. We were allowed to stand in the lines and be able to sing. And I still see that today in our haka group. Everyone's just hard out producing tamariki at the moment. And you can't make them sit down. And, and I was like that when I was a tamaiti. 

     

    So yeah, touching, hearing, watching all those types of senses, they were important then as they are now.

    Āe. Nāu ētahi o ngā waiata i tātaki?

    Yeah. Did you to try and lead some of the songs?

    Ko taku maharatanga mateoha ko Te Matatini 2005 ki Te Papaioea, te tau i whakaihu waka ai a Te Whānau a Apanui. Kia pono te kōrero, e whakaaroaro tonu ana ētahi o mātou he aha i toa ai? He rōpū noa iho tērā i kaingākau ki te kapa haka, i whakapau kaha, i tō mai i ngā tāngata tika. I hātakēhi i te mea i tōia mai e rātou tētahi Pākehā ki te whakaako i a rātou ki te waiata. Kāre nei e taea e ia te waiata i te reo Māori, engari nāna te kapa i āwhina ki te waiata.

    My fond memories are 2005 Matatini in Palmy where Whānau a Apanui were fortunate enough to win. To be honest to this day, some of us still think how did they win? Because they were just this raw rōpū that were just passionate about haka and they tried everything that they could, they got in every person that they needed to. And it was hard case because they got this Pākehā fulla to teach them how to sing. And now he can't sing a word of Māori, but you know, he's obviously helped them find a way to be able to sing in their rōpū.

    He pūkenga ōna ki te tō mai i taua āhuatanga. Āe.

    Had the skill to draw it out of them. Yeah.

    Āe. Engari ko te tau 2005 te tau i tino rongo ai te tamaiti nei i te painga o te noho hei tamaiti o Te Whānau a Apanui. Me te kite hoki i te katoa e koakoa ana i tērā āhuatanga. Ko rātou ngā toa whakaihu waka o Te Matatini. Āe.

    Yeah. But 2005 would be as a tamaiti would be the highlight of being a Whānau a Apanui child. And watching everyone buzz out that they won Matatini. Yeah.

    He aha te āhuatanga pai katoa o tō whānautanga mai ki roto o Te Whānau a Apanui me te whakawhanaunga atu ki ō whanaunga he aha te painga o tērā?

    So, being a haka baby in Te Whānau a Apanui and getting to whakawhānaunga with your cousins, what was the best part about that whakawhanaungatanga?

    I whānau mai mātou ki konei, ki Ōmāio, nā reira ko ngā whanaunga i hokihoki mai i Tāmaki. Hei tauira, ka hautūhia mai e Mati, e Tamati, ōna hoa i te mea i aua wā rā, kāore te nama kaihaka o Te Whānau a Apanui i eke ki te 40. 

     

    Nā reira i nui te whakawhirinaki a ōku mātua, a tōku māmā rānei, ki te hunga rangatahi kia hoki mai rātou ki te kāinga. Nā reira ka haria mai e Tamati mā ō rātou hoa ki te kāinga ki te whakamōmona i te rōpū. Waihoki, ka haria mai he kai timotimo. Ngā kai o te tāone, nē, BK, he tiakarete, he mōhio nō rātou me uaua ka whiwhi mātou I aua momo kai ki kōnei. 

     

    Ko tētahi anō ko te purei kēmu i te marae. Ngā kēmu whānui, pēnei i te huaki pūru, i whati ai te tini ringa, i whara hoki ai ētahi ki te marae, nē, engari koirā ngā momo maharatanga ka puritia, ā, ka manako hoki ka whai wāhi ō tamariki, ō uri ki aua momo poipoitanga, ki aua momo āhuatanga i ō rātou whakapakeketanga. Āe, koirā ngā maharatanga. He huhua kōrero atu anō ka taea e au mō taku noho hei,

    We were born and bred here in Ōmāio, so the cousins used to come back from Tāmaki and, for example, Mati, Tamati, he used to bring a carload of his mates because, back in those days Whānau a Apanui couldn't even field a team of 40 performers. 

     

    So, my parents or my mother, they used to really rely on the rangatahi to come home. And so, people like Tamati would bring their mates home to help grow the rōpū. And they always used to bring munchies. So, like all the town kai, BKs, chocolates, they knew that we didn’t get that type of stuff here on the coast.  

     

     

    I think another one was being able to play games with them on the marae. Common games, like bull rush, where a lot of arms were broken and a lot of serious injuries happened at the marae aye, but those are the memories that you bank in your brain, and you just only hope and wish that your tamariki or your uri get the same sort of poipoi or same sort of āhuatanga in terms of their upbringing. So yeah, those are sort of my memories I could go on and on about being a,

    Tamaiti haka.

    Haka baby.

    Tamaiti haka, āe, ko te whanaungatanga ki ōku whanaunga te āhuatanga matua o te tamaiti haka. Me te noho tahi a ngā tuākana me ngā tēina, katoa ka tapatahi.

     

    ngā mahi a Rēhia kāore he rerekētangahe mahi tuākana, tēina, te noho ngātahi.

    A haka baby, if there's very important parts of being a haka child, whanangatanga with my cousins would be at the very top of that list. And also, the relationship between, if you're not of the same age, there's this big separation. And kapa haka takes that away, or 

    Pursuit of pleasure takes that away because you are able to tuakana teina sort of, te noho ngātahi.

    Nō reira, mai i tērā momo āhuatanga, anā, whakawhiti atu ki te kura tuatahi. I haka koe ki te kura tuatahi, ki ngā kura ranei?

    So, there are those factors, and crossing over to primary school. Did you partake in haka at primary school, or in school in general?

    I kuraina au ki Te Kura Mana Māori o Maraenui. Kei konei, kei roto o Te Whānau a Apanui. I aua rā he tino kaha, me kī, kei te tino kaha tonu a Te kura Mana Māori o Maraenui i roto i ngā kaupapa katoa o te ao Māori. I aua rā, i reira tētahi o ngā, me kī, ngā kaimau rākau tino rangatira, ko Haturini McGarvey tōna ingoa. Nāna i whakaako ki a mātou o Whānau a Apanui, nga pūkenga o roto o Tūhoe. Arā, ko te mau patu ki ngā tāne. Ko te mau taiaha, mau rākau. 

    I went to Te Kura Mana Māori o Maraenui. Here, in Te Whānau a Apanui. Back then it was pumping, and Te Kura Mana Māori o Maraenui maintains that, in all Māori initiatives. Back then, they had one of the exponents of Māori weaponry, Haturini McGarvey is his name. He taught us, Te Whānau a Apanui, the teachings of Tūhoe. Club work for the men, taiaha, weaponry.

    Nā reira, mōku, kapa haka i te kura tuatahi, ehara te whakataetae i te aronga o te kapa haka. Engari kē ko ngā āhuatanga matua o te kapa haka, me te aronga whānui anō hoki. Nā reira i mua i taku whai wāhi ki taua ao, i pēnei au ko te kapa haka ko te waiata noa, ko te haka noa, ko te whakarere i te poi. 

    So, for me, my primary school kapa haka wasn't about competition. It was more about key elements to kapa haka and what the broad perspective of kapa haka was. So, before I even was exposed to any of those types of things, all I thought kapa haka was was singing, haka and swinging a poi.

    So, yeah nā Haturini tērā āhuatanga o te huaki i aku whatu, kia kite i te āhua o te rere o te patu, i te rere o te rākau, o te taiaha. I te mea, ehara ērā āhuatanga i te āhuatanga e tino kitea ki roto o Whānau a Apanui. 

     

    Engari mō ngā mea pērā ki a Bronson Gage, koirā ngā mea tino whai mana i roto i ērā āhuatanga. Kua puta ki waho, kua pā ki aua mea, kua rongo i te noho ngātahi o Bronson ki roto o Te Arawa. Me tōna tino matatau ki aua pūkenga, mō mātou o te kāinga. He mea nui ērā

     

    So Haturini was the one who opened up my eyes, so I saw how a club works, and weaponry, and taiaha. Because those weren’t things you would ordinarily see in Te Whānau a Apanui. 

     

     

    Other than the likes of Bronson Gage, he was skilled in that practice. He’s gone out and been exposed to those sorts of things, and I’ve heard that Bronson was living amongst the Te Arawa people. He’s really skilled in that field. For us at home that was a big thing.

    Yeah, nō reira mēnā rā ka whakaaro tāua ki tēnā momo āhuatanga, anā, ngā āhuatanga matua i kōrero rā koe i mua, te mōhio ki ngā pūkenga tūāpapa o te kapa haka, he aha aua momo pūkenga ki a koe?

    Āe, so if we consider those key features you spoke about earlier, knowing the foundation of skills of kapa haka, what would those foundational skills be to you?

    Mōku, i te wāhi ki ngā pūkenga tūāpapa, ko te mea matua ko te kaingākau. Me kaingākau koe ki te reo, ki te Māoritanga rānei e kaingākau ai koe ki te kapa haka. He āhuatanga hirahira tērā. Ka taea e te katoa te kori, te wiri, te haka, engari ko te kaingākau te mea nui.

    In terms of foundational skills, the main one for me would be just being passionate. You need to be passionate about te reo. Or some type of Māoritanga to be able to be passionate about kapa haka. And I think that's a very, very important part. Anybody can learn to kori, to wiri, to haka, but passion is something that is very, very important.

    He aha te kori?

    What's kori?

    Ki a mātou, ko te kori te nekehanga o te hope e whakaatu ana i te tau. He mea nui tērā ki a mātou o Te Whānau a Apanui, waihoki ki a Ngāti Porou. He āhuatanga i motuhake ai mātou. Nā reira koirā tō mātou ‘mita’ kapa haka.

    Kori, for us is a movement within the hips that shows elegance and grace. It is very, very important to us of Whānau a Apanui and also of Ngāti Porou. It is something that depicts us from the rest. So, in terms of mita kori would be our type of mita in kapa haka for us.

    Āe. Rawe. Te tau o te hope.

    Right yeah. Cool. So, grace in the hips.

    He nekehanga ngāwari, he waewae huatau. He wā ōna ka ngoto rawa, engari i tōna tikanga he tau te nekehanga, waihoki, kei te pōro o ngā wae te tū.

    Very simple movement, very elegant feet. But usually, the movement is very gracious, and it's all done on the balls of your feet.

    Rawe. Nā reira i paku kōrero tāua mō ngā pūkenga tūāpapa? Ka pēhea te pūkana?

    Cool. So, we spoke a little bit about foundational skills. What about pūkana?

    He take anō tērā nē, te pūkana. Mō mātou o Te Whānau a Apanui, he pūkana ngāwari tō mātou. Kāore e tetē ngā niho, i te mea, pēnei i te kori, he tau, he huatau mātou, ā, me kaua mātou e whakatāne i a mātou. Ko ngā karu me te waha e pūkana ana.

    It's interesting aye old pūkana. So, for us of Te Whānau a Apanui, for us here in te iwi o Te Whānau a Apanui, our pūkana is a very simple pūkana. There's no showing of the teeth. So, we don’t show the teeth because, again, like the kori, we have a very elegant and gracious look to ourselves, and the look is not to try and be manly or masculine. It's just to have that āhuatanga of pūkana in the eyes and in the mouth.

    Āe. He ātaahua tērā. Engari nōu i te kura o Maraenui, ka ako koe i te haka me ngā momo pūkenga ka ākona, tērā i te takahi, te poi, te wiri me te waiata. He aha te wāhi ki aua āhuatanga i tō whakawhitinga i te kura tuatahi ki te wharekura?

    Yeah. That's beautiful. But also, over at Maraenui kura you learned a little bit more around haka and the types of skills that you can gain other than takahi, poi, wiri, waiata. How has that helped you going from kura tuatahi through to wharekura? Did you transfer those skill sets over?

    Āe. I mīharo ki ahau te kura tuatahi i te wāhi ki te kapa haka. Engari mō te momo pēnei i ahau, mēnā he tamaiti haka koe, kāore koe i tino pīrangi ruku anō ki ngā mahi kapa haka. Nā reira i aro kē ahau ki te hākinakina, tērā i te kapa haka. 

     

     

    Engari i titia tonutia ki taku manawa. Heoi, kāore ahau i pīrangi whakawātea i aku mutunga wiki mō te kapa haka, kāore i pērā ngā whakaaro. I pīrangi noa ahau ki te noho tahi ki aku hoa, ki te tākaro whutupāoro, te poitarawhiti, me te mahi i tā te taiohi mahi. 

     

    Heoi anō, he mahi hīanga nōku ki Ōpōtiki College i poroa ai taku noho ki reira. Kātahi ka tukuna ahau e aku mātua ki Hato Hōhepa, ki Ahuriri rā.

    So yeah, so kura tuatahi was a very amazing journey for me in terms of kapa haka, but like most young teenagers of my time and if you were a haka baby, the sort of last thing for some of us was to go and dive right back into a haka scene. So, for me, my interest then became around sports rather than a kapa haka. 

     

     It was still in my heart. But to give up my time every weekend for haka, it just wasn't in my mind. All I wanted to do was hang with my bros, play rugby, play netball and you know, just be a teenager.

     

     

    However, it was quite funny because I ended up playing up at Ōpōtiki College and I wasn't there for very long. And then my parents shipped me off to St Joe's down in Napier.

    E mārama ana. Āe.

    Oh, right. Yep.

    Kei te mōhio tātou ki a Miss Kingi, nō hea e kōwhiri i tāu i pīrangi ai i tāna kura. Nā reira, i whakahokia tonu atu ai ahau ki te kapa haka me aua āhuatanga rā. I whai wāhi mātou ki ngā whakataetae ā-rōpū me aua āhuatanga rā ki Hato Hōhepa. Nāwai, ka whakatikaina taku waiaro, ka tukuna ai ahau ki tētahi kura Pākehā i aku tau tuakana.

     

     

    Ko tōna 3000 tamariki i reira, ki Mahurangi College ki Mahurangi. I te wā nei, kei te takiwā o te 5-7% te nui o te Māori e kuraina ana ki reira. Nā reira i hika anō ai taku Māoritanga. He kite nōku i ētahi atu ahurea. 

     

    Nā, i ngā kura Pākehā katoa, tē arohia ngā mahi kapa haka. Engari anō tēnei kura Pākehā, kura-ōtekau-tike, he kapa haka tō rātou. He manga Māori tō rātou, ka whakamīharo atu ahau. Kāore ahau i uru atu ki te kapa haka. Engari ko te mate tonu, ko taku pīrangi ki te mahi hākinakina. I ū ahau ki tērā. I pīrangi mahi hākinakina, ā, i mōhio ahau ka pai noa iho taku hoki atu ki taku iwi, haka ai. Koirā i haumaru ai taku tahuri ki ngā mahi hākinakina.

    Well, we all know Miss Kingi, there's no picking and choosing with what you want to do at her school. So, I was planted straight back into a place where there was kapa haka and things like that. So, we went through the motions of group comps and things like that at Saint Jo's. And then I bucked my ideas up, obviously when I got to a senior age, and I was sent to kura Pākehā. 

     

    It has about 3000 kids, but Mahurangi College in Warkworth, the percentage of Māori that actually go there at the moment is around about 5 to 7%. And so, what that did to me was it re-inspired my Māoritanga. Because I was exposed to all these other nationalities. 

     

    And so, at any Pākehā kura, the very last thing that everyone's worried about is a kapa haka group. But in this Pākehā kura, decile nine, they had a haka group. They had a te reo Māori unit and I thought to myself, wow, they've actually got te reo Māori and hakas. No, I did not join the haka group. It was about the fact that I still wanted to play sport and I always knew that I could always go back to haka at my iwi and that was the security for me being able to play sport.

     Nō hea hoki ai koe ki te haka?

    When did you come back to driving yourself through your passion of haka?

    Ka hoki ahau ki Te Whānau a Apanui i Mahurangi, me te aha, kāore ahau i hoki tika atu ki ngā mahi haka. He pīrangi nōku ki te mahi noa i tā te rangatahi mahi. Engari nō te tau 2014, ka whakatau ahau “Hika, kei te aha kē ahau? I te haka taku whānau i ngā mutunga wiki, nā reira, ka whakatau ahau, “Kua hoki ahau ki te whakangungu. Ki te mea tuatahi e kitea ai he aha te aha.” Kei pōhēhē. He nui aku taenga ki ngā whakangungutanga tuatahi, nā, kāore i ū. Engari i te tau 2014, ka ū ahau. Kei reira tonu ahau ā mohoa nei.

    When I moved home back to Te Whānau a Apanui from Warkworth, and I didn't jump straight back into the haka scene. And that was purely because I was just wanting to be still a rangatahi and enjoy my time. But in 2014, I decided, "Man, what am I up to in my life? And all my whānau were at hakas on the weekends and I was like, "Oh, I'm just going to go to practice. To the first practice and see what it's like." Don't get me wrong. I've been to heaps of first practices and that's as far as it got, but there was just something different about that 2014 campaign for me. And yeah, I haven't left.

    Āe. Ki tēhea rōpū?

    Yeah. What rōpū?

    I hoki ahau ki Te Rōpū Kapa Haka o Te Whānau a Apanui, ā, i whai wāhi taku māmā ki te whakatūnga o Tauira Mai Tawhiti i te 2006. I waimarie ahau ki te kōwhiri i a Tauira rānei, i a Whānau a Apanui rānei. Ko te take i haere ai ahau ki a Whānau a Apanui ko taku whānau, me te tungāne o taku māmā, me aku karangatahi hoki, i reira katoa rātou. Ka toko ake te whakaaro mēnā kei te pīrangi ahau kia noho tahi ki taku whānau, me āta whai wāhi ahau. 

    So, I ended up going back to Te Rōpū Kapa Haka o Te Whānau a Apanui and my mum was part of the creation of Tauira Mai Tawhiti as well in 2006. So, I was very fortunate that I could either go to Tauira or Whānau a Apanui. And for me, the reasoning for me behind going to Whānau a Apanui was that my whānau and my mum's brother, and my first cousins were there. And I just thought if I want to be with my whānau I need to put myself in that space. 

    Rawe, autaia.

    Wow, Cool.

    2022, nā-

    2022 and-

    Kei reira tonu.

    Still there.

    Kei reira tonu.

    Still there.

    Ki te titiro tāua ki tō whakawhitinga ki ngā mahi kapa haka pakeke, ki Te Whānau a Apanui i te tau 2014, he aha ngā āhuatanga pai katoa?

    If we look at your transition over to stepping into adult kapa haka into Te Whānau a Apanui going back in 2014, what do you love most about it now?

    Ko ngā tāngata ka whai wāhi mai. Te wairua pai o te hunga ka whai wāhi mai. Mōku, ko te whakakanohi i taku iwi me tō tātou ahurea. He mea nui tērā. Āe.

    My most favorite thing about haka will have to be the people that it draws in. The positivity of the people that come into the space. And I think for me personally, being able to represent not only my iwi, but our culture is very, very important.

     He aha ngā awenga i tō ao e hokihoki tonu atu ai koe ki te ao haka?

    So, if we were to look at your journey of haka, have we covered your journey so far, or do you have influences in your life that draw you to keep going with te ao haka?

    Ko taku kuia, he kaihaka pakari tērā, kaitautoko anō hoki o Whānau a Apanui nō mai mai. He pātai pai tērā, i te mea he wā ōna e wareware ai i a tātou aua tūāhuatanga. Te take i noho ai koe? Tō ara ki konei? I uia atu e ahau taku kuia i mua i taku kuhunga atu, anā, “Ki te kōrero koe mō tō ao me te kapa haka, he aha ngā kōrero?” ko tāna mai ki ahau, “E rua aku kōrero. Tuatahi, ko te kapa haka te ānga nui katoa o te reo Māori. Tuarua, kua nui kē atu ngā tāngata mahi kapa haka i Aotearoa, tērā i te wā i tamariki ai ia.”

    I think my main influence in haka would be my kuia and my kuia has been a staunch performer and supporter of Whānau a Apanui for as long as I've been born. And I think, it’s quite funny, you ask that question because sometimes we forget about it. We actually forget about why are you actually in this space? How did you get to being in this space? And I actually asked my Nan a couple of questions before I came. And I you know, "If you were to speak about your life and kapa haka, what would you say?" And she said to me, "There's two things that I would say. And that is that one kapa haka has been one of the biggest driving forces to our reo Māori and two, there are way more people in Aotearoa that do kapa haka than there was when she was a tamaiti."

    Hei te Hānuere ka 90 tau taku kuia. Ko tāna i kite ai i ngā rā o tōna ao, ko te whanaketanga. Nā reira koirā ngā āhuatanga matua i aku maharatanga, i te mea, ka taka te wā ko tāua tērā. Ka hoki whakamuri - 

    My kuia will be 90 in January. And what she's seen in her lifetime is this growth, is this growth. So those are very key things for me to bank in my brain, because there's going to come a time and a place where you and I are going to be in those shoes. And we're going to have to look back at-

    Ka tuarihia [he whakaaro].

    And share.

    Āe. Ka tuarihia he whakaaro mō tā tāua i kite ai i ēnei wāhi kapa haka.

    Yeah, and share the amazing things that we've been able to see in our time in these kapa haka spaces.

    He kupu āwhina āna ki a koe mō te haka, i ākona rānei koe e ia, i tuarihia rānei he maharatanga mō te wā i a ia?

    Has she ever given you any advice around haka or taught you or memory she shared about her time?

    Kāore anō ia e hoki mai ki haka. He nui rawa, nā reira ka mātakina mā te pouaka whakaata. Heoi, i taku hokitanga atu ki te kāinga, kua nui tana arotake i te tū, “Te tae o ō makawe.” Nē, aua āhuatanga māmā nei. E ai ki te kuia mōrehu, he mea nui te makawe kua tāwaia. Engari te hunga e mōhio ana ki ahau, kei te mōhio ki ngā panonitanga ki te tae o ōku makawe. 

     

    “He aha aua mea rā i ō hurukamo?” Engari ehara i te mea kāore i te pīrangi kite atu. Engari ko te huringa o te tai tāna e kite nei, “O, he pai ērā. Ka tino nui kē atu tō pūkana.” Āe, ko te huringa o te tai, nē.

    She doesn't come to haka anymore. It's just too big and too crazy, so she watches on TV. But when I get home, she's analyzed it a hundred times and she's got this, "You shouldn't have that colored hair." You know, it's the simple things. And for a kuia mōrehu, colored hair is a big deal. And for some people that know me, they know that my hair color changes regularly. 

     

    "What are those things on your eyelashes?" But in saying that it's not saying that she doesn't want to see it. She's noticing and "Oh, those look really nice. Those make your pūkana look really effective." So, I guess, yeah, just her moving with the time, I guess.

    Kua kitea e ia te whanaketanga o te haka nō te wā i a ia, ā, ā mohoa nei?

    Has she seen haka evolve over the time since she was around, back in her days and then right up until now?

    Āe. Taku mōhio. I whai wāhi ia ki tētahi rōpū ki Kawerau, ko Rautahi tērā, kātahi ka hūnuku rāua ko tōku koroua ki konei, ki Ōmāio, ka whai wāhi atu ai ia ki Whānau a Apanui. Nā reira kua tū ia ki rōpū kē atu, me te aha, kua rangona ngā panonitanga. Kei paku kō atu a Whakatāne i a Ōmāio, Rūātoki anō hoki, engari he tino rerekē ngā tāera. 

     

    Koirā i motuhake ai mātou, ngā iwi, ā, he mea nui tērā. Engari me mātua noho tūturu tātou ki ngā tū ā-iwi. Ahakoa kei hea koe. Āe, kei Ōtautahi pea koe e noho ana, engari he Whānau a Apanui koe, nā reira me pērā tō tū, i te mea koirā i motuhake ai koe i ētahi atu.

    Yeah, I think she has. She was part of a rōpū in Kawerau, Rautahi, and then her and my grandfather moved here to Omaio and then she became a part of Whānau a Apanui. So she's stood in other rōpū and felt the changes. Whakatāne and Omaio aren't that far away from each other or even Rūātoki and Omaio, but the two different styles are very different. 

     

    And that's what makes us so unique as certain iwi and it's important. It's very important that we stay tūturu to the way that our iwi stand. No matter where you are. Yeah, you might live in Christchurch, but you're Whānau a Apanui you stand like Whānau a Apanui. Because that's what makes you unique.

    Āe. He aha ētahi atu awenga i tō ao?

    Yeah. Do you have any other influences in your life?

    Kua kī te katoa he awenga nui tōku māmā ki a mātou, ka mutu, e tika ana. Me ngā mema o mua anō hoki o Whānau a Apanui, engari kāore mātou i āta tōai i a Whānau a Apanui i tō mātou tamarikitanga. I pai ki a mātou te mātaki i kapa kē atu. Āe. Ko Rangiwewehi, ko Waka Huia, ko Waihīrere, aua kapa tautōhito, whai mana. Ko mātou ngā tamariki i mōhio ki ngā kupu a ngā rōpū katoa, ka whakatangihia i te kura, i te kāinga anō hoki. Nē, koirā ngā momo waiata i harikoa ai mātou, i hauora ai hoki.

    Everyone would say that my mum is a big influence for us and yes, she is. And so, is all the old members of Whānau a Apanui, and our childhood days was not to watch Whānau a Apanui over and over again. We loved watching everyone else. So, Rangiwewehi, Waka Huia, Waihīrere, all those old rōpū that have been in the game for a long, long time that had that mana about them. And we were those kids probably like yourself that knew every word to every single group, put it on at school, put it on at home. And you know, those were our songs that kept us happy and healthy.

    Ki ōu whakaaro, he kaiwhakaawe ētahi atu kapa?

    Would you say that some of the other haka groups are influential as well?

    E mea ana koe. I roto i te kapa haka, me whānui tō titiro atu.

    Definitely. I think with kapa haka, if you are looking at it in terms of kapa haka itself, your exposure to kapa haka has to be broad.

     Me whānui tō titiro ki te ao kapa haka. Ki te whāiti tō titiro ki te ao kapa haka, e kore koe e ako, e kore koe e mōhio. He roa taku wā, i haere au i te mata o te whenua, ko te tū o Te Whānau a Apanui noa iho taku tū me taku mōhio.

    Your exposure to kapa haka needs to be broad. If you limit your exposure, then you won’t learn and you won’t know. I’ve been at it for ages, I’ve gone all over the country, and all I knew was the Te Whānau a Apanui way.

    Nō taku kite atu i te tū a Tūhoe, te tū a Ngāpuhi, ngā takahi rerekē i motuhake ai koe. He mea nui tērā, i te mea, ki te kore, ka hua ake te pātai, he aha i pērā ai rātou? Kāore e kore ka kitea he whakautu.
    Kāore i te hē. Ki te pērā ō kōrero, kāore anō koe kia ako, kāre anō kia ruku hohonu ki te whai i aua key features, elements.

    So, it wasn't until I was exposed to the way that Tūhoe stand to the way that Ngāpuhi stand, to the different takahi styles that make you unique. And that is very important because otherwise you have these questions of why do they do that like that? There's always an answer. It's not just that's wrong. No one can say that it's wrong, because you are obviously uneducated in, you have not yet been educated in those key features, elements.

     

     

    Āe. Ka pai koe. Engari he tika koe, hoki atu ki te kāinga kia purea koe e ngā hau a Tāwhirimatea, o te hau kāinga. Nō reira he tika rawa tēnā. 

     

    Ka pēhea ngā mahi haka ināianei? He aha te āhua? He aha ki a koe te āhua o ngā mahi haka ināianei?

    Āe. Good on you. But that’s right, return to your home and let the winds of Tāwhirimātea cleanse you. I totally agree with that.

     

     

    What about hakas now? What's hakas like now? What do you think hakas is like right now?

    He āhua noho te mahi haka. Ko te hā. He tangata pai e tū ana hei kaiako. Ko ngā kaiako e kōrero nei ahau, ko te reanga kaiako hou. I taku nohonga poto ki te kāinga, āhua 10 tau nei, he nui ngā rangatahi i roto, i waho hoki i te hapori e mahi ana i ngā mahi rawe. Kei ngā kura auraki. He nui ngā whānau i Tāmaki, i Kirikiriroa hoki, kāore i aro anake ki ngā kura kaupapa.

    I think hakas is living. It's breathing. It has amazing people that are passionate tutors. And when I mean tutors, I'm talking about the next gen of tutors. I've been at home now for about 10 years and the amount of rangatahi of my own age and also the ones outside of the hapori who are doing these amazing things, A lot of kura auraki. There's a lot of our whānaus that are out there in Tāmaki, Kirikiriroa that are not just focusing now on the kura kaupapa.

     Kei reira katoa ngā rauemi kei ngā kura kaupapa, engari ko ā tātou kura auraki, you know kua whāia e ā tātou hoa, kaihana, i tēnei āhuatanga o te whāngaihia te kapa haka ki ngā kura auraki.

    All the resources are in kura kaupapa, but our mainstream schools, our friends and cousins are pursuing a path of feeding kapa haka to mainstream schools.

    He mea nui tērā nā te mea ka titiro ana koe ki te ora o te kapa haka, me whai wāhi te katoa. Kaua ko ngā kura kaupapa me ngā wharekura anake i te mea e puta kē ana tērā i ngā kura, i ngā kōhanga reo. Engari ehara i te mea ka whai wāhi atu te katoa ki aua āhuatanga ki te kore koe e haria e ō mātua. Ngā tamariki katoa i Aotearoa ka kuraina. Mā te aha i te rima mīniti i ia rā, he whai wāhitanga tērā ki te kapa haka. Engari me whai huarahi e ora tonu ai [te kapa haka].

    And I think that's a big deal because when you look at kapa haka breathing, it has to be right across the board. It can't just be in kura kaupapa. Our kōhanga reo, our kura, are the breeding stations for those things. But not everyone gets that exposure. Unless your parents take you there. Most tamariki in New Zealand go to school. And if you can just get through for five minutes every day, that's exposing tamariki to kapa haka. But it's about having a plan of making sure that it stays breathing, living.

    Āe. I tō noho hei kaiako ki Te Kura ā-Iwi o Te Whānau a Apanui, he aha ō kupu āwhina hei āwhina i ngā uri kāore i te noho ki roto o Te Whānau a Apanui kia hono anō ai rātou ki tō rātou Apanuitanga?

    Yep. So as a kaiako, because you are a kaiako yourself at Te Kura ā-Iwi o Te Whānau a Apanui. So as a kaiako then, what would your advice be to empower those uri that aren't staying around in Te Whānau a Apanui, who live elsewhere and how can they be in touch with their taha Apanui again?

    Mō ngā uri kāore i te noho ki te kāinga, ki Te Whānau a Apanui, anei tāku ki a koutou, kaua e whakamā ki te hoki mai ki te kāinga. Tērā te whakaaro ko ngā mea e noho ana ki te kāinga ngā mea e mōhio ana ki ngā āhuatanga katoa o te kāinga, ā, ko ngā mea noho tawhiti, kāore nei e whiwhi i ngā mātauranga pēnei i ngā mea noho kāinga. Mōku, āe, he tika kei tērā whakaaro. Engari he nui ngā mātauranga o ngā whānau o waho kei te tino hiahiatia ki tō mātou hapori.

    I think for those of you who don't live here along the coast or in Whānau a Apanui, my advice to you and to your whānau would be one, don't be shy to come home. There's this whakaaro or concept that people have that the ones that live at home know everything about home and those ones that live away tend to miss out on the mātauranga that the ones at home are getting. I think that yes, in some sense, that's correct. However, there is a lot of mātauranaga that our whānau out of this hapori have that we need in our hapori.

    Ko ērā hoki i te hapori me whāngai i ngā mātauranga ki ērā atu. He tuari i ā tātou taonga me te āta tuitui i ērā. Engari tērā tētahi kōrero Pākehā e mea ana “You are never too old to learn.” He mea nui tērā mō tātau o te ao Māori. Karekau he pakeketanga hei whakaea i tō ako. Ia rā, ia rā me whai rautaki ki te ako i tētahi mea, anā, whānui, whāiti rānei. Ki te ao kapa haka, ki ngā mahi a Rēhia, te haka o Tānerore, aha atu.

    And the same with the hapori that we have now feeding the mātauranga to our ones. So, it's about sharing our gifts that we have together and being able to marry them together. But there's a Pākehā saying, and it's, "You are never too old to learn." And I think that's a really, really important thing for us Māori. You’re never too old to learn. Each day you’ve got to ensure that you learn something, be it big or small. Whether that is kapa haka, ngā mahi a Rēhia, te haka a Tānerore, or some other endeavour.

    Āe. Kia tahuri pērā atu ināianei, he aha te anamata o ngā mahi haka?

    Yeah. So then if we go from that to now what does the future look like for haka?

    E hiamo ana ahau ki te anamata o ngā mahi haka. E tino whakapono ana ahau ki tērā kōrero āku, nā runga i ngā rangatahi e tū ana hei kaiako ki ngā wāhi pēnei i ngā whakataetae kura tuarua ā-motu, He punua Matatini, me te aha, he mīharo. 

     

    Ka taka te wā e pērā hoki ai ngā whakataetae kura tuatahi. Nā te mea ko ā tātou rangatahi tonu kei te whāngai i aua kaupapa. Nā reira, mōku, e tino hauora ana te anamata o Matatini. Me tūpato rā i ngā tamariki pēnei i a Atareta rāua ko Te Hākura e kake mai ana, koi panaia ngā mea 30 tau neke atu i te mea, kei te haere mai te rangatahi, me te kōrero rā, ka pū te ruha, ka hao te rangatahi.

    The future for haka for me looks very exciting. And I say that with a great amount of passion, and it goes back to those rangatahi who are in those spaces of tutoring roles and the space of let's say secondary nationals, it's like a mini Matatini and it's amazing. 

     

    And it's only a matter of time before that huge five-day primary school one is just the same. Because our rangatahi of our generation are putting their energy into those spaces. So obviously for me, Matatini, it looks healthy as, because if those kids like Atareta and Te Hākura, are coming in through the ranks, into Matatini, watch out. I just say, watch out for your spot, if you are 30 and over because the younger ones are coming, as the saying goes, as an old net withers, a new net is made.

    Āe. Nā reira, te anamata o ngā mahi haka, ka pēhea koe hei kaumātua? Ko koe te momo ka tū ki mua.

    Yeah. So, the future of haka, what type of kaumātua do you think you're going to be? You're going to be one of those ones then stand at the front.

    He kaumātua ahau ka whakatauira ake i ngā whakatauiratanga mai a taku kuia ki a mātou ko tōku whānau. Arā, kia kaha taku whai wāhi ki ngā kaupapa, ngā kaupapa ā-iwi, ngā kaupapa ā-hapū, mātua rā, ki ngā kaupapa ā-whānau.

    I want to be a kaumātua that role models all the great things that my kuia has and continues to role model to me and my siblings. So just being actively involved in kaupapa, kaupapa ā-iwi, kaupapa ā-hapū, and most importantly, kaupapa ā-whānau. 

     Nōku te waimarie i taku māmā mōna i whakatauira mai i ngā āhuatanga pai katoa, arā, ā-whānau nei, ā-hapū nei, ā, puta noa i te iwi.

     I've been very fortunate that I have a mother who role models great things. And when I mean great, I mean great things a whānau, great things ā-hapū and wider into the iwi.

    Tika. Nā reira hei whakatepe ake, he aha tō tino waiata i ngā mahi kapa haka?

    True. So, if we were to have a look and wrap it up, what's your favorite item in kapa haka?

    Ko te poi. He rawe ki ahau ngā wāhine o Te Arawa me tā rātou tāera poi.

    My favorite item would be poi. Poi. I love the women of Te Arawa and the way they poi.

    O āe.

    Oh yes.

    He tino rerekē tērā i ā mātou e mahi nei i Whānau a Apanui. He pai ki ahau te wero. Kāore e taea e au te whakarere i ngā poi roa e whā. Engari he rawe ki ahau te mātaki atu, me te mahi poi anō hoki. Ka whai ake ko te mōteatea. 

     

    He kaupapa tērā kua titia ki taku whatumanawa, mai i te wā i whānau mai ai ki tēnei ao. Me te hoki ki te kōrero i kōrerohia e tāua mō Te Kura Mana Māori o Maraenui, he kura e, ko ōna mātāpono, nā Te Kooti a Rikirangi ērā, me ngā āhuatanga o te Hāhi Ringatū, arā, ka puta mai ko te mōteatea.

     

    Mōku, nā Te Kura Mana Māori o Maraenui taku aroha ki te mōteatea i whakatō.

    That's very different to what we do here in Whānau a Apanui. I like the challenge. I couldn't swing four poi's, long poi's to save myself. But I love watching poi and I love doing poi as well. And close second would be mōteatea. 

     

    That’s something that I’ve always loved, since birth. And just to go back to our discussion about Te Kura Mana Māori o Maraenui, its principles, they are Te Kooti a Rikirangi’s, from the Ringatū Faith, and from that came the mōteatea.

     

     

    So, for me, my passion and my love for mōteatea has come from when I was at Te Kura Mana Māori o Maraenui.

    Mīharo. He rawe tērā. Nā reira hei whakakapi ake, Erina, he aha o kupu āwhina e toru, mō te ao haka, ki ā tātou ākonga, tauira anō hoki e whakarongo mai ana ināianei?

    Wow. That's cool. So, if we were to wrap it up Erina, what would three pieces of advice be that you would give to our ākonga and our tauira that are listening right now, about te ao haka?

    He kupu āwhina mō te ao haka. Tuatahi, me ngākau tuwhera i ngā mahi haka, i ngā mahi a Rēhia.

     

    Tuarua, ahakoa ō mahi, kia ngākaunui atu. Tuatoru, kia nui te ngahau. Ko te ao haka tētahi wāhi i whakaputa ai ō tātou tīpuna i tō rātou aroha ki tō rātou ahurea. 

     

     

    Arā, mō tātou, ko te whakataetae kē te aronga, engari ki te hoki rawa mai ki te ngako o ngā mahi o te ao haka, ko te ngahau te āhuatanga matua. Te tītī torea, te tī rākau, aua kēmu ngahau rā. Āe, koirā aku kupu āwhina e toru.

    Three pieces of advice around te ao haka. One, whenever you go into haka or go into a space of ngā mahi a Rēhia, be open minded.

     

    Two, whatever you do, be passionate. And number three, have heaps of fun. This kapa haka, te ao haka was a space where our tīpuna showed their expressions and showed their love for their culture. 

     

    And I think for us, our drives have always been competition, but if we bring it right back to the real purpose of te ao haka, having fun is at the very top of that. Tītī torea, tī rākau, those are all fun games. So yeah, those would be my three points of advice.

    Rawe. Nā reira he - he kōrero whakamutunga āu, he kōrero anō pea?

    Yeah, mean. So, do you have - have you got any closing words, anything to add?

    He kōrero whakamutunga hei whakakapi i tēnei āhuatanga, ki a koutou ngā ākonga e whakarongo ana, e mātaki ana ki tēnei uiuitanga. Kia kaha koutou i roto i ā koutou mahi. He tino ngākau nui tēnei āhuatanga o te whakapuaki i ngā whakaaro o te ao haka, hei rauemi whakaako mā koutou ngā tamariki, mokopuna o Aotearoa. E hīkaka ana ki tēnei mea o te ao haka. Nō reira, koirā aku kōrero whakakapi.

    My closing words would be to all of the students listening in and watching this interview. Be strong in your pursuits. How wonderful it has been to share our thoughts on te ao haka as a learning resource for you all, the children and grandchildren of Aotearoa. I’m excited about te ao haka. Those are my final words.

    Tēnā rā koe e te whānaunga. I tino, i rawe katoa, i reka katoa tēnei kōrero ki a koe i tēnei wā. Nō reira, mai i a mātou ki a koe, tēnā koe mō te tautoko mai i tēnei kaupapa, hei oranga mō ā tātou nei tamariki. Tēnā koe.

    Greetings to you, relation. What a fruitful conversation this has been. So, from us all, to you, thank you for supporting this project, for the betterment of all of our children. Thank you.

     

     

     

    [ Accordion ]

    Opening images of the beach and ocean with waves breaking, changing to a panned out shot of Te Ao Haka written in the sand. Birds eye view panning over greenery land with the ocean in the distance before changing to a close up of the beach and ocean with large coastal hills in the distance. A still image of footprints in the sand to a clip of bird’s eye view of a awa with green farm lands on either side. Close up of flowing water in the river. Close up shot of a street sign with “Timoti RD” displayed. A Clip of some sand dunes with ocean in the distance. Two close up images with one showing a Cross made with sticks to a heart shaped out in the sand with stones as its lines. Another bird’s eye view of farmlands and a town with a beautiful sunset in the distance. Birds eye view panning the town with streetlights and moving car lights as it fades from dusk to dark. Multiple close-up images of a carving displayed one after another. The words Ngāti Kahungunu appear on the screen with a faded image of carvings in a park followed by a taiaha panning in from the left with the words “Te Ao Haka” appearing. Next is the interviewer Rawinia Moeau alongside the guest of the day Sheree Spooner.  

     

    Te Reo Māori

    English

    Tena koe te tuakana, ka rawe tō tae mai i te rā nei mō tā tātou punua pāho, mō Te Ao Haka, kia kotahi atu tāua.

     

     

     

    Koe wai koe, no hea koe?

    I’d like to acknowledge you, my esteemed colleague Sheree, lovely to have you here today for our Te Haka podcast, we'll kick off right from the basics.

     

    Who are you and where are you from?

    Kia ora, Ko Sheree Spooner ahau. Ko Ngai Tama Te Rangi, Ko Ngāti Kahungunu ki Te Wairoa, Ko ngati Ruapani ki Waikaremoana, ko Ngai tuhoe, ko Ngati mahuta oku iwi. Tena koe.

    Hello, my name is Sheree Spooner. I am of Ngāi Tama Te Rangi, Ngāti Kahungunu ki Te Wairoa, Ngāti Ruapani ki Waikaremoana, Ngāi Tūhoe and Ngāti Māhuta descent. I greet you.

    Kia tīmata ake ki tō haerenga. He aha ō maharatanga tuatahi mō Te Ao Haka? Ngā tāngata I whakawai, I whakaawe I a koe. Taiohi mai, pakeke mai. Kōrerohia mai tō ao haka?

    So, we're going to start with your journey. Your first memories in Te Ao Haka? The people around you, the inspiration around you. Young age, Mid-age, tell us about your

    Ko taku mahara tuatahi pea o te Haka, e rima, e ono pea taku pakeke, i te noho atu ahau ki te waharoa o Rangiāhua marae e mātakitaki ana i tētahi tāne weriweri, ko John Rangihau te ingoa.

    I think my first memories of Haka, I would've been about five or six and I was sitting on the Waharoa at Rangiahua marae watcting this scary man called John Rangihau.

    I te whakaako ia i a Haumapuhia, ā, ko Haumapuhia te kapa haka nō Waikaremoana i whakataetae rā ki te Ahurei a Tūhoe. He hononga pūmau tō mātou ki a Tame Te Rangi, ki a Rangiāhua me Waikaremoana, nō reira i ngā wā i poto ai ngā nama, ka tae mai rātou ki te kohikohi mai i ngā mea o te kāinga kia uru atu ki te āwhina. 

     

    Nō reira, ko aku tuahine māhanga ēra i roto i a Haumapuhia nā tērā hononga. I tū rā he wānanga ki Rangiāhua, e mahara ana ahau i te noho rā ahau ki reira, ki te waharoa, e whakaaro ana ki te horopū me te maruwehi o te tangata nei, kāore i aro i ahau ko wai, nō muri rawa kē ka mōhio. 

     

    Ā, i Wairoa ka tū he whetiwara kura tuatahi, nuku atu i te 50 tau te roa e haere ana. Koia pea te whetiwara tawhito rawa atu o Wairoa. He whakangahau noa, he wāhi e tū ai ngā kura tuatahi ki te whakangahau.

    Tutoring Haumapuhia, and Haumapuhia was the Kapa Haka team from Waikaremoana who used to compete at the Tuhoe Ahurei. We have a strong relationship Tame Te Rangi, Rangiahua with Waikaremoana and so when they were short of members, they would come and gather the ones at home to jump in and help. 

     

     

    So, I had twin sisters who were a part of Haumapuhia and because of that relationship, they had a noho at Rangiahua, I can just remember sitting on this, on the Waharoa thinking he's a staunch or he's a scary man and I didn't really realize who he was until years later. 

     

     

    And then in Wairoa we have a primary school festival, that's over 50 years old. It's probably the oldest festival in Wairoa. It's just a whakangahau where all the primary schools take place and participate.

    Ā, ka tū i ia tau, me te mārama hoki o ōku mahara mō te haere ngātahi atu me Frasertown Primary School, tōna ono pea taku pakeke, e tīmata ana i taku tūāoma haka mā te whai wāhi ki tērā whetiwara. Ā, ka rite tonu taku haere tae rawa ki taku urunga ki Wairoa Intermediate.

     

    Ana ki reira ka mutu taku haka I te kura.

    And every year it's held, and I have real vivid memories of participating from Fraser Town Primary School, at about six years old, starting my journey in Haka through participating in that festival. And that carried on until I was at Wairoa Intermediate.

     

     

    And then after that I sort of dropped out of haka at school.

    Nā reira, nā te whānau koe i āki ki te mahi haka i te kura tuatahi me te kura takawaenga? Nā te kura tonu rānei…?

    So, was it a whānau thing that got you to do Haka at primary and intermediate? Or was it a school thing or...

    Nā te kura.

     

    Ko ngā tamariki kura tuatahi katoa o Wairoa I tū ki te whetiwara kapa haka o ia tau.

     

    Nō reira, ko taku kaiako, ko Maia Tohiariki tōna ingoa, he uri ia nō te whānau rangatira, nō te whānau Tīpuna. Na, i pakeke mai mātou, kei te mōhio kē koe he whānui nui tōku whānau, ā, ko tēnei whānau, koinei tērā atu o ngā whānau nunui. E 80% o mātou o te taupori o Frasertown, engari ka ahu mai ia i te pūmanawa waiata. Ā, he horopū te whānau ki te hāhi Mōrehu.

     

    I mōhiotia rā rātou ko ōna tuākana, tēina mō ō rātou reo tōiri, ā, ko ia tō mātou kaiako. Ko ia te kaiako kapa haka tuatahi e mahara nei ahau i te kura o Frasertown. Ko ngā waiata katoa nāna i ako mai i titoa e tōna māmā, he tohunga kaitito waiata.

     

    Nō reira I mōhio whānuitia ia ki te tāone o Frasertown, Wairoa mo āna titonga. Me tā mātou kaha waiata I ōna titonga.

    It was a school thing.

     

    Every primary school student in Wairoa, participated in the yearly Kapa haka festival.

     

    So, I had a tutor, and her name was Maia Tohiariki, and she came from a huge family, the Tīpuna famiy. And we were raised in, you know our family were a huge family and they were the other huge family. We made up 80% of Fraser Town's population, but she comes from a really strong background of singing. So, they were really staunch in the Mōrehu hāhi.

     

    But her and her sisters were renowned for their soprano voices, and she was our tutor. She was my first Kapa Haka tutor that I can remember at Frasertown school. So, all of the Waiata she taught us were composed by her mother, who was quite a prolific composer.

     

    So, she was quite well known in Frasertown, Wairoa area for writing composition and we used to sing all her waiata.

    Ka rawe. Nō reira, ko ia tō whakaawenga tuatahi i roto i ngā mahi waiata, haka anō?

    Awesome. So, she would've been a first kind of influence for you for singing and Haka yeah?

    Ehara! Kāore anō ahau kia rongo i ētahi reo tōiri pēnei i ō ō rātou ko ōna tuākana, tēina, ā, kia kotahi mai ana, mīharo kau ana.

    Absolutely. I don't think I've heard soprano voices like hers and her sisters and when they came together, it was magic.

    Ātaahua.

    Beautiful.

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    Ka pai, nō reira kāore tērā i roto i tō whānau, tō whare? Ngā kuia, koroua, matua, whaea?

    Ka pai, So, that wasn't in your whānau, wasn't in your whare? Nannies, Koro, aunties and uncles?

    He whaea tōku ko Naina Buxton tōna ingoa. Ā, i tino tata rāua ko tōku koroua, nō reira i whakapakekehia ahau e ōku kaumātua. I pakeke au i Rangiāhua Marae, he rite tonu tā mātou haere ki te marae, ia rā, ia rā. Ka hoki aku mahara, kāore i whai wāhi mai te waiata, ko te karanga, ko te whaikōrero i kaha engari kāore mātou i waiata. Kāore mātou i pao, kāore mātou i pōhiri tangata ki te whare kai. Kāore ahau e mahara ki tērā, engari, e mahara ana ahau nā taku koroua i tono ki Waimārama kia āwhinatia mai mātou ki te ako waiata. Ā, i tono hoki kia whakaakona hoki ko āna tamariki me āna mokopuna.

    So, I've got an aunty and her name is Naina Buxton. And she had a very close relationship with my grandfather, so I was raised by my grandparents. And I was raised on Rangiahua Marae, we would go to the Marae on a daily basis. And when I reflect back, Waiata wasn't a part of that, karanga was, whaikōrero was strong, but we didn't use to Waiata. We didn't pao, we didn't welcome people into the dining room. I can't remember that, but I can, I know that my grandfather did tono to Waikaremoana to help us, to help us learn to Waiata. And he requested that they teach his children and his mokopuna.

    Āwaia.

    Wow

    Nō reira, nā Aunty Naina i hiki te tono, ka tīmata ngā haratau kapa haka ki Rangiāhua.

     

    Ana, ka piki mātou i te pahi i Wairoa Intermediate, ka taraiwa 40 mīniti ki te marae ia Tāite ki te haratau waiata ki tōna taha, otirā ki a Bruce Aranga hoki, he minita Mihingare.

     

     

    Ana, koinā te tīmatanga mō mātou ko ōku tuakana/teina. Ā, he tono noa nā taku koroua ki te āwhina mai nā te mea i ngaro tērā āhuatanga i waenga i a mātou.

     

    Nō reira, I tipu au me te kore rongo I Rangiahua heoi ehara I te mea kāore I reira, I ngaro pea. Nō reira ko tāna kia whakaora anō mātou I tērā āhuatanga.

    So, auntie Naina heeded that call, and she started Kapa Haka practices at Rangiahua.

     

    Where we would get on the bus from Wairoa Intermediate and drive for 40 minutes to the Marae every Thursday and have Waiata practice with her and a man called Bruce Aranga, who was a Anglican minister.

     

    And that's where it really started for me and my sisters. And it was just a call from our grandfather to them to help us because we had lost that.

     

    So, I grew up not hearing it at Rangiahua but it doesn’t meant it didn’t exist. It may have been lost. So, he wanted us to revive that.

    Ko tāna tono: E hiahia ana ahau kia waiata āku tamariki mutu ana taku whaikōrero. Ā, koirā te tīmatanga o Te Rerenga Kōtuku. I maumahara a Aunty Naina ki te tono, ko tana wawata kia hoki ki Rangiahua kia timata I a mātou mahi, nā runga I tana hononga ki taku koro.

     

     

    I whānau mai a Te Rerenga Kōtuku i tērā tono ahakoa kāore i aro i a mātou, nā te mea, e whitu tau taku pakeke ka rere tērā tono. 

     

     

    Tekau ma iwa taku pakeke I te timatanga I Te Rerenga Kotuku, heoi e mōhio ana e kore ngā kaumātua e wareware. Ā, ahakoa 11 tau tērā e whakaarotia ana, i whānau mai a Te Rerenga Kōtuku i tērā tono.

    His request was, I want my children to be able to sing when I finished doing my whaikōrero. And so that was really how Te Rerenga Kotuku started. Was Aunty Naina remembered that tono and her hope was that she wanted to come back to Rangiahua and get us started so she could please my grandfather cause they had quite a close relationship. 

     

    And Te Rerenga Kotuku was sort of born from that request even though we weren't aware of it, because that request came when I was seven.

     

    Te Rerenga Kotuku started when I was 19. It’s interesting our old people, they never forget. And even though it took 11 years Te Rerenga Kotuku was really born from that tono.

    Nō reira, kia hoki ake ki te korenga o te waiata, kāore i rongo waiata ki Rangiāhua, ā, ko te ako i ēnei waiata, i ako koutou i ngā waiata o reira, ngā waiata hou rānei i titoa e ngā mea o te kāinga, he mōteatea, he waiata rānei? I pēhea te āhua o tērā i a koe ka ako?

    So just going back to no waiata, not hearing Waiata at Rangiahua and learning those Waiata, did you learn old Waiata that came from there, new Waiata that were composed by locals or, and were they more Moteatea or singing Waiata? How did that look for you when you learned?

    I ako mātou i ngā waiata papai o te wā. Nō reira, ko ngā waiata pēnei i a Te Iwi E… …waiata pēnei i a He Hōnore, nā te mea ahakoa ehara i a mātou, he nui tonu ngā waiata i rangona nō te hāhi Mihingare, i tino kaha te Mihingare i tō mātou marae nō reira ko te nuinga o ngā waiata he himene.

     

    Nā ka timata a Aunty Naina ki te whakaako, ko ngā waiata pēnei I a Te Iwi e. Kotiro Māori, Titiro ki Whakapunaki.

     

    He waiata i mōhiotia whānuitia e te katoa mō te katoa.

     

    Nō muri kē mai, ka tīmata tā mātou ruku, he waiata nō Rangiāhua? Ā, i kitea ērā, nō reira ka tīmata mātou ki te ako, engari he nui te haepapa ki te tito nā te mea kāore i tino nui. Nō reira, i tīmata mātou ki te tito waiata hou.

    We learned Waiata that were popular at that time. So Waiata like Te Iwi E... ...Waiata like He Honore, because even though we didn't, a lot of our Waiata that we heard was through the Anglican faith, the Anglican faith was really strong at our Marae so we would hear a lot of hymns. 

     

    So,when Aunty Naina started teaching us it was things like Te Iwi e, Kotiro Māori, Titiro ki Whakapunaki.

     

    Anthems that everybody could sing and that were quite generic.

     

    It wasn't until later on, we started to delve into, are there Waiata from Rangiahua? And yeah, we found that there are, so we started to learn those, but there was also a big call for us to have to compose because we didn't have a lot. So, we had to really start composing new Waiata.

    Ka pai. Nō reira e ako ana mātou I ngā waiata mo Rangiahua Marae, kua kitea he waiata tawhito hei ako mā mātou. A, ka aha?

    Ka pai. So, we’re learning our new waiata for Rangiahua Marae, we’ve discovered there are ones that we can look for. What happened next?

    Ka whakatū mātou i tētahi karapu iti ki Frasertown, e kīia ana ko Whakatupuranga, ko taku māmā te kaiako, ā, he nui tō mātou whai wāhi atu ki te Frasertown Pool Club.

    Then we started up a little club in Frasertown called Whakatupuranga, that my mother tutored, and we also were really active with the Frasertown Pool Club.

    Pool Club?

    Pool Club?

    Te Pool Club. I whai wāhi rātou ki tētahi whakataetae piriota tiketike i Aotearoa. E waru noa iho ngā tīma e āhei ana te uru. Mēnā I puta koe, ka roa te tatari kia uru atu anō ki te whakataetae. 

    The pool club. So, they used to be a part of quite a prestigious pool tournament in New Zealand. Where only 8 pool clubs could enter. And if you were knocked out or went out it would take years to get back in.

    Kia taea ai e mātou te haere ki Tāmaki, Waikato, Ōtautahi me te karapu piriota. Ko te haepapa nui i taua wā ko te manaaki i ngā whakahaerenga o te pōwhiri. Mehemea ka kōrero taku koroua, kua pai tā te rōpū waiata. Nō reira, i tīmata tō mātou kapa haka, ko aku whaea, aku matua kēkē me ōku whanaunga nō Frasertown. Ā, ka haratau mātou ia wiki. Āe. Nō reira, koirā te wā whakatakinga tuatahitanga ki ngā haratau mō ngā kaupapa.

    So, we would travel to Tamaki, Waikato, Christchurch, with this pool club. And they wanted to make sure that when they went, they could look after all different parts of the powhiri. If my grandfather spoke, they could Waiata. So we started up a little Haka team, all my aunties and uncles and cousins from Frasertown and yeah. And we would practice every week. Yeah. So that was sort of like the first introductions to having practices leading towards something.

    Āe. Āe. Arā, koirā tō kaupapa, ko te piriota.

    Yeah. Yeah. And that was your something, your pool club outings.

    Kōira ā mātou haerenga, ko te piriota. Ia tau he whakataetae piriota. Nō reira, ka whakangungu mātou mō te ono marama, e haere atu ana ki ngā whakataetae, ā, ka whakarite kia whakamutua te whakataetae piriota ki tētahi hōtaka haka.

    That was our pool club outings, every year pool club tournament. So, we would train for six months, to go away to these pool tournaments and make sure we would always finish the pool tournament with a full bracket.

    Mm, ka rawe. Āe. Kia kaha, Frasertown.

    Mm, nice. Yeah. Go Frasertown.

    Koia taku uru tuatahi, nā I haere ahau ki Ahitereiria ki te tākaro poitarawhiti. Ā, i taku hokinga mai ki te kāinga, i noho ahau ki a Angela Smith, nāna ahau i kawe ki te Whare Taonga o Tāmaki.

    So, that was my first introductions and from there I actually took a trip to Australia to play netball. And on the way back, I stayed with Angela Smith and she took me to the Auckland museum.

    Ko te tamāhine tērā a Naina Buxton?

    That's aunty Naina Buxton's daughter?

    Āe, te tamāhine a Whaea Naina. Ka haria ahau ki te Whare Taonga o Tāmaki ki te mātaki i a Pounamu. Ka kī mai ia, “Kei te pīrangi koe ki te mahi i tērā?” Ka hoki māua e toru marama nō muri mai, ka hūnuku māua ko taku hoa ki Tāmaki kia uiuia, ai, kia whakamātauria.

    Ae, Aunty Naina's daughter. And she took me to the Auckland museum to watch Poumanu. And she said, "Do you think you want to do that?"  So I went home and three months later, my partner and I moved to Auckland, and interviewed, no, auditioned.

    Āwaia.

    Wow.

    I whakamātau māua mō te hōtaka Cultural Ambassadors Extraordinaire tuatahi. Koirā te ingoa.

    Auditioned for the very first Cultural Ambassadors Extraordinaire program. That's what it was called.

    Cultural Ambassadors Extraordinaire, ki te Whare Taonga?

    Cultural Ambassadors Extraordinaire program at the museum?

    E mōhiotia ana ināianei ki te ingoa Pounamu.

     

    Ko Pounamu Ventures Limited, nē? He hōtaka whakangungu tērā, he PTE, ka whai paerewa paetae. Ā, i mate hoki mātou ki te whakamātau, i mua i a Uncle Bub me Aunty Nen, e uru ai ki tērā hōtaka. Nō reira ko ahau te tauira tuatahi o Pounamu. Te tuatahi rawa.

    Now known as Pounamu.

     

    Pounamu Ventures limited eh. So, it was a training program, a PTE, doing unit standards. And we had to audition, to Uncle Bub and Auntie Nen, to get into the program. So, I was the very first student of Pounamu. The very first.

    Āwaia.

    Wow.

    I whakamātau ahau kotahi wiki me te hāwhe tōmua mai i ētahi atu ki tō rāua whare.

    I auditioned a week and a half before everybody else at their house.

    Mō te hōtaka whakangungu tēnei?

    Was this for the training course?

    Āe, mō te hōtaka whakangungu.  I pōhiritia māua ko Elliot, taku hoa rangatira ki to te whare o Uncle Bub me Aunty Nen kia whakamātauhia māua ki te uru ki te hōtaka. I te mea I tae mōata atu māua, ko te toenga o ngā whakamātautau ki te Whare taonga. Ko tā māua ki te whare.

     

    Nā,I tae atu, nā te mea, i kārikikōwhai māua, kāore noa iho i kākāriki, he kārikikōwhai kē. Kāore ia i mōhio he aha, ko wai hoki rātou. Ā, hei puru rourou, tae atu ana mātou, i reira hoki a Irirangi.

    For the training course. So, that was their first training course that they ever held. So, Elliot and I, my husband got invited around to Uncle Bubs and Aunty Nen’s to audition to get onto the training course. And because we had gone earlier all the other auditions were held at the museum, ours was held at the house.

     

    So, when we arrived, because you know, we are lime green, we're not even green, we are lime green. He didn't know what, who they were. And then just to top that off, when we arrived Irirangi was there.

    I nē, Irirangi Tiakiawa?

    Right, Irirangi Tiakiawa?

    Nō reira, i te noho atu ia ki te rūma noho i te whare, i te hēti a Uncle Bub me Aunty Nen tahi ki a Boy me Wī, ā, ka karangatia mātou kia haere iho ki te haka.

    So, he was sitting up the house inside the lounge, Uncle Bub and Auntie Nen were in the shed with Boy and Wi, and we had to go down and perform.

    Ko kōrua anake?

    Just the two of you?

    Ko tētahi anake o māua. I mate māua ki te whakamātau me ō māua kotahi. Nō reira ko ahau i haere tuatahi atu. Ko Elliot i whai. I eke ahau. Kāore a Elliot i eke.

     

    Āe, nō reira, ko ahau te tauira tuatahi o Pounamu.

    No one at a time. Oh We had to audition one at a time. So I went first and then Elliot went second. I made the program, Elliot didn't.

     

     

    Yeah. So, I was the very first Pounamu student.

    Ngā mihi rā, he tipua koe!

    Congratulations, you're a legend.

    Kāore te tangata e mōhio ki tērā. Kāore pea a Tāpeta e mahara, engari āe, kāore a Elliot i uru ki te rangapū tuatahi, engari i uru ki te tuarua o ngā rangapū.

    Nobody knows that. I don't think even Tapeta remembers, but yeah, I was their very first student. Elliot didn't make the first intake he made the second intake.

    Nō reira, koia i whakaakona ai ahau e Iri. Nō reira ka kī atu a Irirangi ki a ia, “Heoi anō, ki te kore koe e uru mai ki tēnei hōtaka whakangungu, māku koe e whakangungu kē ki te mau rākau.

    Yeah, so that's why he ended up being tutored by Iri. So Irirangi said to him, "Well, if you don't make this training program, I'll take you and train you in mau rakau instead."

    Ātaahua.

    Beautiful.

    Ana, koirā te take i noho atu ai ahau ki a Irirangi Tiakiawa.

    So that's how we ended up living with Irirangi Tiakiawa

    Nē? I Tāmaki?

    Wow. In Auckland?

    I Tāmaki.

    In Auckland.

    I whai koe i te tohu, ā - 

    You did the course and-

    I whai ahau i te hōtaka, ka tahuri a Elliot ki te mau rākau. Ka mau rakau ahau I te kainga. Engari I reira ia I te hōtaka. He hiahia nōnā te ako noa, nā ka uru ki te roopū tuarua. 

    I did the course, Elliot did mau rakau. I'd get mau rakau when I'd get home. But he was active in the training programme anyway. He just wanted to come and learn and then he made the next programme, yeah.

    Nō reira koirā taku whakatakinga ki te haka tūturu. Nāwai i Frasertown Pool Club ka eke ki te tihi o te taumata ki a Uncle Bub rāua ko Aunty Nen. Ā, i waimarie hoki mātou, nā te mea ko mātou tō rātou rangapū tuatahi, i tino pīrangi rātou kia eke. Nā tērā, i puta mai ko te whānau Wehi katoa.

     

    I te urunga o Elliot I te tau tuarua, nā Vicky te hōtaka I whakahaere. I te tau tuatahi I a mātou te katoa, Angela, Vicky, Boy, Wi, auntie and uncle.

    So that was my introduction to probably real haka. We went from the Frasertown pool club to the creme dela creme with Uncle Bub and Auntie Nen. And we were lucky, because we were their first program, they wanted it to succeed. And because of that, we had all of the Wehi whānau. 

     

    So, Elliot was tutored by Vicky, she ran the second intake. But in the first intake we had everyone, Angela, Vicky, Boy, Wi, auntie and uncle.

    Āe. Hika! Tō waimarie hoki!

    Yeah. Wow. How lucky were you?

    Āe. Nō reira, ko te whāinga, kia oti te hōtaka ka mutu, ka ahu ki te whare taonga. 

     

    Nō reira ko ahau te mea tuatahi i whai mahi i te tohu, ā, kia haere iho ki te Whare Taonga ki Tāmaki ki te mahi tahi ki a māmā mā. Nāku a La i rīwhi i te wā i wehe a La.

     Yeah, we were blessed. And so, our goal was to complete the training and then head into the museum.

     

    So, I was the first hired from the program, to go into the Auckland Museum and work alongside mum and them. So, I filled in for La, when La left.

    A, āe. Āwaia.

    Oh yes. Wow.

    Ka hūnuku ia ki Hawai’i. Ā, nāku tōna tūranga i whakakapi.

    And she moved to Hawaii and I took her position.

    E hia huringa marama tērā.

    That Was many moons ago.

    30 mā aha tau ki muri. Ana, koia taku whakatakinga ki te ao tāpoi.

    30 something years ago. So that was my introduction to tourism.

    Ka pai. Kia rerekē mai hoki!

    Okay, that would've been a very different spin.

    Ehara!

    Oh absolutely.

    Hēoi, Frasertown piriota….

    Although Frasertown pool club…

    Frasertown pool club was worlds away from the Auckland Museum. And having to perform to a high standard constantly, consistently on a daily basis.

     

    E rua whakaaturanga i te rā, e whitu rā i te wiki. E whitu rā e mahi ana, e rua rā whakatā. Ā, i kaha taku hāereere, i waimarie mātou nā te mea i whai wāhi ki te hāereere. Te wā tuatahi i haere ahau ki tāwahi me Pounamu ki Hawai’i, ki te whetiwara King Kāmehameha. He wheako anō tērā, i tino manaakitia mātou, i noho mātou ki ngā mōtera rangatira, inā te rerekē o te Frasertown Pool Club i tērā.

    Tāwhiti rawa a Frasertown piriota I te whare taonga o tāmaki Makaurau. Me te kounga o te tū ia te wā.

     

     

    Two shows a day, seven days a week. Seven days on, two days off. And I traveled, we were blessed because we got to travel a lot. So, my first time overseas with Pounamu was to Hawaii, to the King Kamehameha festival. And that was an eye opener, you know, we got treated we were in five-star motels, so going from the Frasertown Pool Club to that was a huge shift.

    I whakawhānui ake koe i ngā mōhiotanga nō Rangiāhua? Kōrero mai mō ērā pūkenga i whakakoikoi ake koe.

    Did you build on what you learned from Rangiahua? Tell us a bit about the skills, that you built on really.

    Mehemea kei te whakangahau koe i te rāngai tāpoi, me whānui ō pūkenga nā te mea he nui ngā momo mahi rerekē e mahi ana koe, arā, i mahi tī rākau, i mahi tititorea. Kāore anō ahau i piu poi. 

     

     

    E mahara ana ahau i ngā wā i whakangungua mātou ki te poi, ka peia ahau ki te tauranga waka, ki te kāri rānei nā te mea kāore ahau i mau ki te manawataki, kāore i mau ki te ia. Nō reira kei te ako koe – poi poto takitahi, poi poto takirua, poi roa takitahi, poi roa takirua, kātahi ko te takiwhā. 

     

    Arā anō, ko ngā waiata. Ko ngā momo waiata ā-ringa rerekē me ngā momo mōteatea, arā, ko te haka pōwhiri, ka whānui tō mōhio nā ngā akoranga haka. E ako ana I ngā momo katoa, I te mea kōira te putake mo te haka I te ao tāpoi. 

    When you perform in tourism, your skill base has to be so broad because you are doing a lot of different disciplines, so we were exposed to Ti Rakau, we were exposed to Tititorea. I'd never swung a Poi before. 

     

    I can remember when we would train to do the Poi, I'd get kicked out into the carpark or kicked out into the garden because I couldn't keep a beat, I couldn't keep rhythm. And so, you are learning, single short, double short, single long, double long than the four longs. 

     

     

    And then there's waiata, different types of Waiata a ringa and then different styles of Moteatea and then Haka Powhiri, so you become, a Jack of all trades in Haka. Learning all different genres, because that’s what tourism performing arts requires.

    Nō reira, Pounamu me te ao tāpoi. I haere koe ki Hawaii, I haere anō koe ki tāwāhi ki tā Pounamu taha?

    So, Pounamu and tourism. You went to Hawaii; did you go anywhere else overseas with

    Kāo? 

    No? 

    I mahi ārahi tira koe mō te whare taonga?

    Did you do tour guides in the museum?

    I ngā wā katoa, ia rā.

    All the time, every day.

    Nō reira, ka mate hoki koe ki te ako i tērā?

    So, you would've had to learn all that as well.

    I ako mātou i aua mea katoa. Ko tētahi atu āhuatanga i ako ai mātou i Pounamu ko te whakahaere atamira.

    We learnt all of that. I think the other thing that Pounamu taught us was stage management.

    Ehara.

    Definitely.

    Ko te nekeneke haere mō te atamira…

    Like stage craft...

    Kōrero mai e pā ana ki tērā.

    Tell us about stagecraft.

    I tētahi rā, kotahi ki te papa whakatū waewae, ā, te rangi whai muri, 15 pea te tokomaha ki te papa whakatū waewae. Me ako koe ki te whakakapi i te papa, ahakoa kotahi anake te tangata, 30 rānei kei te papa whakatū waewae.

    So,one day we could have two on the stage the next day we could have 15 on the stage. You have to learn to be able to work the stage, whether you've got one on the stage or 30 on the stage.

    Āe. Nā reira i hoa piripono ai māua ko te rārangi o waenga. He mōhio ki te tū ki te papa whakatū waewae nē. Tērā pea, kotahi anake pea te tāne, e rima ngā wāhine, me mōhio ki te tū tika i te papa whakatū waewae. 

     

    Nō reira, mehemea ia he ākonga hirahira i ako ai ahau i a Pounamu, ko te whakapau kaha, ka tahi. Nā te mea, ahakoa tokorua, e, ko te kīanga papai a Uncle Bub koia: ahakoa tokorua, ahakoa 50 rānei, me whakangahau koe i tētahi tangata i te marea. 

     

     

    Koia tētahi o aku akoranga, ko te whakahaere I te atamira. Ki te titiro ake ki a Te Rerenga Kotuku, I’d like to think that one of our strengths is stage craft balance and I think that comes from what Elliot and I learnt from Pounamu. 

     

     

    Ā, ko tētahi atu ko te whakariterite, pēnei i ngā kākahu. Ko te whakakākahu i a koe anō i roto i te rua mīniti ki tētahi wharepaku iti, koirā ētahi o ngā akoranga a Pounamu ki te tangata. 

    Yep. So that center line became my best friend. Hey, knowing how to balance the stage. We could have one male and five female, we need to balance the stage. 

     

     

    So, I think if there's two main things that I learned from Pounamu, was hard work. Because whether there were two of you eh Uncle Bub's favorite, saying, whether there's two of you or 50 of you, you have to perform to one person in the audience or a thousand people in the audience, like hard. 

     

    So that’s one of the things I learnt. Definetly stagecraft. I think if I look at Te Rerenga Kotuku, ko tētahi o a mātou pāinga ko te whakahaere atamirac, ā, I puta I tā māua ko Elliot akoranga I Pounamu.

     

     

     

    And also, maintenance, like of your Kakahu. Being able to get dressed, fully ready in two minutes in a small toilet, that's what Pounamu teaches you.

    Ehara! I agree.

    Absolutely, tautoko

    Kāore e pēnei, i ahau ka whakaaro ake ki te haka whakataetae, ki Te Matatini rānei, he rūma nui mōu, otirā, ka kotahi hāora ki te whakamahana. Kāo.

     

    Ko tā Pounamu whakaako he whakamāhana I ngā hekonam 30 I te wharepaku, kōira noa iho. Ka mutu ka puta, mahia ngā mahi.

    We don't have these, when I think about competitive Haka or Matatini you get this huge changing room and you get a whole hour to warm up, no. 

     

    Pounamu teaches you to warm up in 30 seconds in a toilet. And that’s all you got, and you get out there and you get on with it.

    Kāore e kore i nui te ngahau.

    And it must have been a lot of fun too.

    Āe, he nui hoki te ngahau. He nui hoki te ngahau. Ā, ko tētahi āhuatanga i pai katoa atu ahau ko te hōtaka; ko ngā waiata o mua ka waiatahia ki ngā kaupapa katoa. Nō reira, ahakoa i ako mātou i ētahi o ngā titonga a Aunty rāua ko Uncle, he nui tonu ngā waiata ā-iwi i waiatatia i ngā wā katoa.

    It was, it was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. And what I loved about it is that the bracket was made up of old waiata that you can sing everywhere. So, even though we learned some of auntie's and uncle stuff, a lot of it again was made up of Iwi anthems of the time.

    Āe, ngā waiata rongonui.

    Yep, well known items.

    Āe, ngā waiata rongonui. E tāea ai te waiata ki ngā wāhi katoa.

    Yep, well known items, so yeah you could just adapt them to anywhere.

    Kia ora, ā, ko tētahi atu o ngā kīanga a Uncle Bub – i rawe ki a ia te whakaako i te tangata ki te haka – “Ka rite ana koe, e hoki ki te kāinga, ka tuari ai ki tō whānau, koia te mutunga iho māu? He āhuatanga anō rānei mōu i waenganui i a Pounamu me tō hokinga ki te kāinga?

    Kia ora, so another one of Uncle Bub's sayings was, you know, he liked to teach people that came to them to learn haka. And then he also said to them “when you're ready, go home and share with your whānau, is that the next step for you? Or was there something in between Pounamu and you coming home?

    He tamaiti. 

     

    I hoki hoki atu māua ko Elliott ki te kāinga ki te whānau i taku tamāhine mātāmua. I haere mai a Aunty Naina rāua ko Angela ki te torotoro i a mātou, ā, ka kī mai ki a mātou, “Kua eke pea te wā e whakatū ai koe i tētahi kapa whakataetae nō te Wairoa.

    One child. 

     

    So, Elliott and I returned home to have my oldest daughter, Elliot and me. And when we were home it was actually Aunty Naina and Angela came to see us, and said to us, "I think it's time that you start a competitive Haka team from Wairoa”.

    Kia māngari mai hoki!

    What a privelege.

    Āe. Ka mau ko ērā whakaakoranga katoa nā Aunty, nā Uncle, nā Irirangi, ā, ka whakahokia ki ērā o te kāinga. Kāore anō kia tū he kapa whakataetae i te Wairoa. I taua wā, ko Te Rauhina te kapa haka engari kāore rātou i whakataetae. Ā, ko te Wairoa Māori Culture Group hoki, engari kāore hoki rātou i whakataetae. Ko te whakatūnga mai o Te Rerenga Kōtuku, i whakatūria ai ki te whakataetae. 

    Yeah, you take all of that learning that you had from aunty and uncle and Irirangi and, give it back to the ones at home. We'd never had a competitive haka team in Wairoa. At the time there was Te Rauhina, Kapa Haka but they weren't competitive. And there was the Wairoa, Māori culture group, but they weren't competitive. So when we established Te Rerenga Kotuku it was, it was purposefully established to compete.

    Āwaia! Nō reira, kāore e kore he nui te mahi, he nui te kōrero i waenga nui i a kōrua ki te whakatau mehemea ka ū rānei kōrua ki tērā.

    Wow, so that must have taken a lot of work, a lot of kōrero between the two of you deciding whether to do that or not.

    I āwhina mai hoki tōku māmā, ko Christine. Mehemea i mōhio ahau ki tāku e mōhio nei ināianei, kua kore pea māua e whai. Heoi anō, koinei te toru ngahurutanga o ngā tau.

     

    I tīmata mātou i te Hune 1992. Kua 30 mātou i tēnei tau, ā, i tīmata ki te whakataetae haka. Ā, e whakaaro nei ahau ko taku whai wāhitanga ki a te Waka Huia – ahakoa kāore ahau i hono atu ki a te Waka Huia, he kaha tonu tā Aunty rāua ko Uncle poipoi i a mātou ki te haere ake, nē, nā te mea he taumata anō tērā o te haka, he horopaki anō tērā o te haka.

    My mother helped us, my mother, Christine, if I knew then what I know now we probably wouldn't have done it. So, this is our 30th year.

     

    We started in June 1992. We turned 30 this year, and we started for competitive Haka. And I think it was what I had been exposed to with Waka Huia, even though I never joined Waka Huia, uncle and auntie would always encourage their Pounamu performers to go, eh because it was another level of Haka, it was a different space of haka.

    Mehemea kāore koe i te mahi ki te whare taonga.

    If you weren't working at the museum.

    Āe, ā, i waimarie hoki mātou i te whai wāhitanga ki a Te Rautahi. Ā, ko Irirangi hoki tērā i whakakipakipa i a mātou kia haere ki āna wānanga anō hoki, Nō reira i tīmata rā mātou me tērā whakaaro, engari i tipu noa ake i tērā. Nō reira, ahakoa i tīmata rā a Te Rerenga Kōtuku hei kapa whakataetae, nāwai rā kua rerekē rawa atu ināianei te kaupapa.

    Yeah, and we were also lucky to be exposed to Te Rautahi. So Irirangi would make us go to Wananga with him as well. So we started with that in mind, but it became a lot more. So Te Rerenga Kotuku even though our focus was competitive Haka at that time, the kaupapa is very, very different now.

    Ka pai. Kōrero mai mō tō kaupapa.

    Okay, tell us about your kaupapa?

    Ko tā mātou kaupapa, ki te mōhio koe mō Wairoa, e mōhio ana koe ki te āhuatanga o Wairoa.

     

    He tāone iti tō mātou e rongonui ana mō ngā kēnge, kei te pōhara te hapori o konei, ā, ko te nuinga o ngā huinga he mea karanga i runga i te whakaaro ki ngā whakawairangi. 

     

    Nō reira ko Te Rerenga Kōtuku he hāpori I roto I te hāpori. Ko tō mātou aronga ko te haka, engari i huri mātou hei whānau, hei taiao whakatairanga i ngā kaupapa Māori pai. Nō reira, ka tuwhera mai he wāhi ki ā mātou rangatahi me ō mātou mema i tua atu o ērā āhuatanga ā-pāpori i waia ai rātou, ā, ka whakaāhurutia rātou ki tētahi wāhi haumaru e ako ai rātou mō rātou anō, tō rātou ahurea, whakapapa hoki, tō rātou reo, me tō rātou hītori. 

    So, our kaupapa really is about, if you lknow Wairoa and you know the demographics of Wairoa.

     

    We're a town that is known and renowned for gangs, we've got a low economics community and our social gatherings were all based around drugs and alcohol.  

     

    And so, Te Rerenga Kotuku became this community inside of a community. Our focus was competitive Haka, but it became a whānau, an environment that encouraged positive kaupapa Māori. And so we gave a space to our rangatahi, and to our members away from all of those other social impacts that they were used to experiencing and, gave them a safe space to learn about themselves, learn about their culture and their whakapapa, their reo, their history.

    Ātaahua.

    Beautiful.

    Āe. Ā, e whakapono ana ahau koia e whanawhana tonu nei mātou i tēnei wā. Ko te kaupapa, he nui atu i te whakataetae. Koia ka tō mai I ahau kia hoki atu. 

     

     

    Ka ngaro atu a Elliot i te tau 2015, ka māmā noa taku turaki i te kapa.

    Engari, he rite tonu tāna kī mai, mehemea kei te tika te kaupapa, ka taetae mai te tangata, ka hoki atu anō, engari ka haere tonu tātou, ka haere tonu te kaupapa. Ana koirā te mea i āki i ahau ki te koke tonu nō muri mai i tōna rironga i te tau 2015.

    Yeah, and I believe that's why we're still going today. It's that kaupapa, more than competitive haka. It’s that kaupapa that keeps us coming back. 

     

     

    I lost Elliot in 2015, and it would've been easy to fold the team. But he always used to say to me, long as the kaupapa is strong, people will come and go, but we will just continue, that Kaupapa will continue. And so that's what drove me to continue after we lost him in 2015.

    Nō reira kei reira te whanau katoa, ka whakahaere I te tīma, ka tito waiata koutou. Kōrero mai mō tō whānau, otirā ia, mō ngā pūkenga e pai ai to ārahi i tō rōpū. 

     So, the whole family’s involved, we’re all leading the team, we’re all composing. Tell us about your whānau and what some of your skills are in terms of running your roopu.

    Ki ahau nei, i motuhake māua ko Elliot inā rā kāore ō māua reo.

    I think, Elliot and I were quite unique in that we didn't have reo.

    Nō reira, i tīmata rā mātou i te tau 1992, ā, tokotoru anake he kōrero Māori.

    So, like some of the things is when we started in 1992, we only had three people that could kōrero Māori.

    Ināinei ko tōna 95% he kōrero Māori. Ko tā mātou whāinga kia reo Māori katoa ā mātou wānanga hei te tau 2025. Ināianei, ko tōna 80% o ngā wānanga kei te reo Māori. He wero nui tērā ki a māua ko Elliot nā te mea kāore māua i kōrero Māori. Ki te whakaaro ake koe ki ngā kaiako whakataetae e whakaako ana i tō rātou kapa whakataetae mō tētahi whakataetae nui whakaharahara pēnei i a Te Matatini, e aro nui nei ināianei ki te reo, koirā ngā momo taumahatanga ki ngā kaiako. Me te tito waiata. Ka pēhea te tito waiata, ki te kore he reo?

     

     

    Nō reira i whirinaki māua ki ngā pūkenga i a māua, āra, ko te puoro.

    Now we have 95% kōrero Māori. Our goal as a Kapa was to have our wananga completely held in Te Reo by 2025. Now we have about 80% of our wananga is held in Te Reo. So it was a challenge for Elliott and I because we weren't speakers of Te Reo. When you think about competitive tutors taking a team to top competitive Kapa Haka festival, like Mataini, who now have a real focus on Te Reo, the type of pressures that puts on you as tutors. And also when you’re composing. Because how do you compose when you don’t have Te Reo?

     

    So, we had to lean on the strengths that we do have, and we have very musical background

    Māua tahi ko Elliot, he kaiako ki Wairoa College i te tari puoro. He nui tōna mōhio ki te puoro. I mōhio ia ki ngā oro takitoru, ngā whakatakotoranga puoro, ā, ka whirinaki atu māua ki tēnei ki te tito. Ka tito ahau ki te reo Pākehā i ōna wā, kātahi ka waimarie mātou ki te whakapā ki te momo pēnei i a Tīmoti, i a Rob Ruha, i a Te Amohanga Rangihau. I karapotia mātou e te ringa āwhina, ko Tuirina, ā, ka tito hoki rātou. Nā rātou āku waiata i whakamāori, ā, kātahi ka riro mai ki a māua te rangi te whakarite. Ko tōna 98% o ngā waiata nā māua i whakarangirangi, ā, i āta pērā mātou nā te mea i mōhio māua ki te tangi o te kapa. Mōhio ake i ētahi atu.

    So, both Elliot and I were teachers at Wairoa College in the music department, he has a really strong musical background. He knew, triads, musical structures. And so we leaned on that to compose. I would compose sometimes in English, and then I would call, we were lucky to call on people like Timoti, Rob Ruha, Te Amohanga Rangihau. We had a lot of support around us, Tuirina, and they would compose, they would translate my Waiata over into Maori and then we would tune, we tuned about 98% of our Waiata and we did that on purpose because we believe we knew our team’s sound. Better than anybody else.

    Ehara.

    Absolutely.

    I a māua e tito rangi ana mo ngā titotanga koinei a māua kaha. Ko te tōiri o te reo tā māua I āta whakarongo kia tito.

     

     

    I mate mātou ki te whirinaki ki te kaupapa o te waiata, he mōhio ki ngā āhuatanga katoa o tērā kaupapa. Nā reira i hua mai ai ko ā māua rangi. He tukanga matatapu.

     

    He mīharo a māua tamariki, I te mea ka wehe noa rātou, mēnā I mōhio rātou e tito ana māua, ko te wā tito ko te 9 ki te 11 karaka I te pō. Ka tūwhera te whare, ka wehe ngā tamariki. Ka tino whirinaki māua ki ngā piropiro, I te mea kaore I a māua te reo. Nō reira I aro ki te tōiri o te reo. Ko te nuinga o ngā titonga I ahu mai I reira.

    So, when we composed the musical components of our compositions, which was our strength. We were really driven by vibration of the language.

     

    We had to rely on the kaupapa of the waiata, knowing that Kaupapa inside out. And that's where our rangi would come from. It was quite an intimate process.

     

    And our children, it was quite interesting because our kids would just leave, they knew if we were in composition mode, our composition mode would be about 9, 10, 11 o’clock at night. Our whole house open and our children would disappear. And we would rely heavily on feeling. Because we didn’t have the language. So, we had to feel vibration of the reo, and that’s where a lot of our tunes come from.

    He tauira tāu? Ma ngā ākonga e whai ana I te Te Ao Haka, me mōhio rātou ki ēnei āhuatanga. Ka nui tērā āwhina.

    Do you have an example for our ākonga taking Te Ao Haka they need to know about these elements, so it would be very helpful.

    He uaua ki te whakamārama I tērā nā te mea I puta noa I ngā piropiro. Nō reira, mehemea he kupu akiaki āku he kī ake kaua e whererei I te korenga o te reo. Nā tērā I tino aro ai māua ki te reo. I nui ake tā mātou whakapau kaha e tika ai te whakahuatia o te kupu. 

     

    I nui ake tā māua aro ki te takoto o te kupu, nā te mea ko tētahi āhuatanga kāore I pai ki a māua ko te hoki atu ki te kaitito ki te panoni kupu.

     

     

    Nō reira, tae mai ana ngā kupu ki a mātou, he tino taonga. Kei reira ētahi kaitito, ko Timoti tētahi, me kī atu, kei te hiahia māua kia rua noa ngā oropuare kaua kia rima, tēnā panonihia tēnei kupu”? Ā ka hoatu tonu he kupu atu anō. Kāore a Elliot e pērā. Ko tētahi o ōna painga ko te āta whakarite I te takoto o te kupu kia ō ai ngā kupu katoa I tukuna mai I te tuatahi ki te rangi.

     

    I ētahi wā ka hia nei wiki te roa, ki te pakanga I ngā kupu kua tukuna mai ki a māua me te āta whakatakoto mai kia ō ai, ara kia mau tonu ki ngā kupu. I ētahi wā I a māua e tito ana ka rongo, ka kite hoki a māua tamariki I ētahi āhuatanga ā wairua. I te wā toru noa iho te pakeke o taku tama ka kii mai ia, “kei kōnei te katoa, kei kōnei te katoa”. Kātahi ka rereke te rūma, ka mahana te ruma.

     

    He irāmutu tāku, he āhua hauā. He rite tonu tana tangi I ngā wā I tika I a māua te rangi, arā, kōira te waiata.

    It’s hard to explain that because it really happens on feel. I think if there’s one thing that I could say is don’t be discouraged if you don’t have the language. It drove us to be extremely fussy around reo because of it.

     

    So, I think we worked harder to make sure that we were pronouncing kupu correctly, we had to work harder on phrasing, because the other thing that Elliot never liked to do is to go back to a composer and ask them to change lyrics. 

     

    So, once we receive lyric, for us they were a real taonga. So, you can go to some composers, Timoti’s one of them and say, “we only want two vowels here and not five. So, can you change this word”? And he’ll just instantly give us another word. Elliot wouldn’t do that. So, I think his strength was making sure that structurally, phrasing would fit the kupu that we were given in the first instance.

     

    And it would take weeks sometimes to battle kupu that we were given to structurally fit them into, you know so that we kept the kupu. There were times where we would be composing, and our children could feel things or see things. So, my son, he was about 3 years old, and he would say “they’re all here”. And the room would be warm, the room would feel different.

     

    We have a niece, who’s a bit disabled. She would always cry if we got the tune right, if we got the waiata right. 

    Mehemea I tika I a kōrua?

    If you got it right?

    Nō reira, ka haere mātou ki te haratau ki te whakaako I te waiata ki te roopu, ā, mehemea ka tangi ia, kua mōhio māua kei te ara tika māua e haere ana.

     

    Nō reira, he tūāoma wairua mō māua ka tito nā te mea kāore māua I matatau ki te reo. I mate māua ki te whirinaki ki ētahi atu āhuatanga, ā, ko te whirinaki nui ki te ao wairua me ō māua pūkenga puoro.

    So, if we went to practise and we would teach the group a song, if she was crying, we knew we were on the right track.

     

     

    So, it was a real spiritual journey for us when we were composing, because we weren’t fluent in the reo. We had to rely on other things and our reliance was on the spiritual world and our musical background.

    Ka pai. Nō reir, kōira te taha ki te tito, he tāpirihanga kē atu ki te taha tito me te waihanga waiata?

    Well done. So, that’s your composing side, anything else to add with compositions and creating items?

    Ko tētahi āhuatangae noho pūmau tonu nei mātou ki te kapa haka whakataetae ko te tukunga o te tito. Ko te tiki mai I tētahi whakaaro mō tētahi waiata, ā, ka mātakitaki ai I tōna whanaketanga kia hua mai ko tōna otinga ki te papa whakatū waewae. He nui tonu ngā wā kāore e eke ki tāu I whakaaro ai, engari kōira ētahi o ngā āhuatanga kaingāu ki a māua ko Elliot, ko te tukanga auaha.

    I think one of the things that have kept us going in competitive haka is the process of composition. It’s taking a though or having a thought about an item and then watching it develop until the final product on the stage. And there’s a lot of times when it doesn’t hit the vision you’ve had but I think that’s one of the things that Elliot and I really enjoyed, was the creative process.

    Ka rawe. Ā, me to roopu he tāera tā koutou, nāu rānei I whakarite mai I tētahi? I whai rānei koe I te tāera a Kahungunu?

    Awesome. And with your roopu, did you have a distinct style or did you set a style. Did you follow Kahungunu style?

    Ka rawe e kōrero nei koe mō ngā tāera a Kahungunu nā te mea he pai ake ki ahau te kōrero, hēoi anō, ka kōrero ahau mō Kahungunu ki Te Wairoa, na te mea he whānui rawa atu te rohe o te Iwi o Kahungunu. Ka mutu, he rereke tēnā, I tēnā. 

     

    Nō reira, he rerekē rawa atu a Kahungunu ki Te Wairoa I a Kahungunu ki Te Wairarapa, I a Heretaunga rānei. He whetiwara anō tō mātou ki te kainga, ko Pā Haka. Ā, ia rua tau ka whakakao mai mātou mō te Pā Haka, ko ō mātou marae katoa. Ka tū mātou mā ō mātou marae ki te Marae o Tākitimu. 

     

    I a koe ka tiro ki a Pā Haka, he rereke katoa. 18 katoa ngā Marae ka tū ki Pā Haka, ā, ngā tāera a tērā Marae, atērā marae he rerekē rawa atu tētahi ki tētahi.

     

     Ki a au nei, I Wairoa, he rerekē rawa atu tō mātou āhua kawe I a mātou tērā I a Heretaunga me Wairarapa. Waihoki, mō mātou o Rangāhua, e noho ana ki te tawhānga o Tūhoe me Kahungunu, nā reira he whakaawenga nui tērā, tō mātou taha Tūhoe. He nui hoki te whakaawe mai o te taha ki Te Tairāwhiti. Tairāwhiti I te mea kei te tata mai a Te Tairāwhiti. Pēnā, ka hiki waewae kei takahi ana.

     

     

    Kāore a Heretaunga e hiki I te waewae. Ko Tama te Arikinui mā, I a rātou ka haka, ka hiki I te waewae. Ko ngā whakaawenga mai ēnei o te taiao me te hunga e noho tata mai nei ki a mātou, tae atu rā ki a Ngoi Pēwhairangi, he rite tonu te haramai ki Wairoa. He rite tā mātou tāera ki tā Te Tairāwhiti, arā, he hāhaka te tū I te haka. He rite tonu tā mātou ki te tāera kūpapa a Te Tairāwhiti.

     

     

    Ā, ka haere iho mātou, ka whakaaro ake ahau ki a Aunty Naina, nā tōnā whakapapa Tūhoe I kore ai mātou I kaha korikori. Kāore mātou e whakaatu I o mātou kēkē, ka tata rawa atu ngā ringa, ā kāore e hīkina. 

     

     

    He nui te whakaawenga mai o Tommy Taurima. Āra, ka timata mai taku oreore haere, mea rawa ake, kua nohotahi ki a Aunty Naina, kāore e paku kori. Ko Uncle Bub rāua ko Aunty Nen tērā I whakaawe mai hoki I a mātou. Ko Irirangi anō tētahi nā te mea I mau tonu māua ki ngā whakaakoranga mai a Irirangi ka tukuna ai ki te roopu. Engari, ki a au nei he tāera motuhake tā Te Rerenga Kotuku.

     

    Tērā te wā, ka kī mai a Elliot ki ahau, he nui te kiia mai o mātou “ehara I te Kahungunu nā te mea I mōhio rātou I ahu mai māua I a Aunty, Uncle me Iri. Engari e ai ki a ia, “he toto Kahungunu e rere ana I taku tinana, nō reira ahakoa te aha ka hua, he Kahungunu tonu”.

    It’s interesting that you talk about a Kahungunu style because I think I’d prefer to talk, well, I will talk about Kahungunu ki Te Wairoa because Kahungunu is such a huge geographical Iwi. And we are very, very different. 

     

    So, Kahungunu ki Te Wairoa in comparison to ki Te Wairarapa or ki Heretaunga are very, very different. We also have a little festival at home called Pā Haka. And Pā Haka is where we come together every two years, all our marae. And we perform as a marae on the ātea at Tākitimu. 

     

    Even when you look at Pā Haka, we are very different inside of Wairoa. There’s 18 Marae that perform at Pā Haka and all of the styles of each Marae is very, very different.

     

    So, I think in Wairoa, we have have a very, very different look to Ahuriri, to Heretaunga and to Wairarapa. And I think for us in Rangiāhua, because we are on the boarder of Tūhoe and Kahungunu, we have a lot of influence. We have a lot of influence from our Tūhoe side, we have a lot of influence from our Tairāwhit side, because we are close to Tairāwhiti. So, for instance, we takahi we lift our foot.

     

    Heretaunga don’t lift the foot, Tama te Arikinui when they haka, they really lift the foot. So, I think that we have influence from our taiao, and from people that other surrounding areas, we had a huge influence from Ngoi Pēwhairangi who used to come into Wairoa quite a lot. We have a very, our haka style is very similar to Tairāwhiti in that we get quite low on our haka style. We have the same kūpapa style as Tairāwhiti. 

     

    And then when we go, you know when I think of Aunty Naina, because of her Tūhoe whakapapa, she actually had us quite restricted in our movement. We wouldn’t show our armpits, our arms would be really close, they wouldn’t be high. 

     

     

    We’ve had a lot of influence from Tommy Taurima. So, one minute we’d be swinging and the next minute I’d be with Aunty Naina and would be stiff. So, I think Uncle Bub and Aunty Nen have had influence on us, Irirangi definetely because we carried a lot of the mau rākau knowledge that Elliot and I received from Irirangi into the team. But I think Te Rerenga Kotuku do have their own distinct style.

     

    Elliot once said to me, “everybody kept saying that we are not Kahungunu because they knew that we had come from Aunty, Uncle and Iri. But his whakaaro was, “I have Kahungunu blood flowing through my body, so, whatever we produce is Kahungunu”.

    Ka pai. Te Rerenga Kotuku.

     

    Āwaia. Nō reira, kōira tō tāera, no koutou anō taua tāera.

    Awesome. Te Rerenga Kotuku.

     

    Wow. So, that’s just your style, it’s your own style that your roopu -

    Ko tētahi āhua e mau tonu nei I ahau, me whakarongo mātou ki ērā e kuhu mai ana I te mea ka takeo haere tētahi roopu ki te kore e whakaaetia he tangata o waho ki te whakaaweawe mai. Engari he tāera tā mātou, ka mutu, ka ū tonu ki taua tāera. He ngāwari noa iho tā mātou tāera mau rākau. I whakaako mai a Iri he pao kei ia nekehanga, he karo anō. Māmā. Nō reira, ka tū ana mātou, e whai ana mātou kia karo, kia pao anō.

     

     

    Kōina tetūāpapa o ngā mahi mau rākau. Ehara I te whakarei noa. He taonga noa rānei. He take tōna – me kī ko tā te rākau he patu, he taotū rānei. He pao, he karo. Kōina te mea e whakatū tonu ana mātou. 

     

    Ko tā mātou poi, I a mātou ka poi ka aro mātou kia hāngai te rere o tepoi ki ngā kupu. Ā, koia tonu te wero. He wero tēnā nā te mea he nui tonu ngā kapa ka whai noa I te taki kia eke ai tētahi wāhanga, engari kāore koe e kite I te whakatinanatanga o ngā kupu. Nō reira, ko te wro nui, ko ngā whakapono mō te poi ko te hāngai o te rere ki ngā kupu.

    We always take one of the things that I will always hold onto is that we listen to people who come in, we are always very open. Because I think a group can get quite stagnated when they don’t allow other people to have input into them. But we definitely have a style that we stand by. Our weaponry style is very basic. Irirangi taught us that everything has a strike, everything has a block. Simple. So, when we perform, we would like to think that we look like we are blocking, and we are striking. 

     

    That’s the basics that we use for all our weaponry. It’s not an ornament or a prop. It always had a purpose, say weaponry’s purpose was to kill or to hurt. It was a strike and a block. So, that’s how we’ve always maintained that. 

     

    Our poi, when we poi we like to make sure our movement is reflective of what the kupu are saying. So, we don’t do rhythm. We try to portray the kupu. And that’s a challenge. That’s a challenge because you’ll get a lot of kapa who will just use rhythm to get through a section, but you’re not actually seeing what the words are saying. So, our challenge our philosophy on poi is that it

    Ehara! Kōira tō āhuatanga, ko te poi, nāu ngā poi I waihanga mā tō roopu?

    Absolutely. And is that your forte, poi, you create the poi for your roopu?

    Ka pai ki ahau mehemea I pērā. I timata mai ahau I te peinga ōku ki waho ki te tauranga waka nā te mea kāre ahau I mōhio ki te pupuri poi, ā, ināianei me waihanga nekehanga poi. Kua tukuna tērā haepapa ki taku tamāhine ināianei. E kore pea tētahi pēnā I ōnā rā.

     

     

    Engari, ki ahau nei, he tino rite tā mātou tāera ki tā Te Waka Huia, ā, taku mōhio, nā Angela I pērā ai. He nui te nekeneke I ngā waewae I a mātou poi, ā, me whakahua mātou I ngā kupu.

    I’d like to think it was. When you go from getting kicked out into the carpark, because you can’t hold a poi and then now you are composing and you are having to choreograph poi, I think yeah, I had to choreograph poi. But now I’ve handed it over to my daughter. So, she can carry on now cause one can’t move how they used to.

     

    But I think we have a very similar style to Te Waka Huia and I think that infleuence came from Angela. So, we have a lot of footwork in our poi, and we must depict the kupu.

    Ka ea I tēnā. Hei whakatepe haere, I pīrangi ahau ki te mōhio mō tō mahi. Te mahi e mahi ana koe I tēnei wā me te hunga e mahi atu nei koe.

    Simple as that. Just before we finish off, I wanted you to touch on your mahi. The mahi you’re doing at the moment and who that’s with.

    Ka pai. Nō rēira ko ahau te Upoko ā tari mō te hunga paetahi ki Te Whare o Awanuiarangi. I mua I taku tūranga o nāianei, tū ai ahau hei kairuruku kaupapa ā mōtu mō te Tohu Māori Performing Arts.

     

     

    Nō reira, he tohu tāku I te Māori Performing Arts me tētahi Master of Applied Indigenous Studies e aro ana ki ngā mahi a Rēhia. Ā, ko taku kaupapa e pā ana ki a Te Rerenga Kotuku hei whare mātauranga Māori. Atu I a Te Wānanga o Awanuiarangi hei whare wānanga mātauranga Māori. Hei wāhanga atu anō o taku kaupapa rangahau, nāku I waihanga tētahi tohu Māori performing arts, ā, kōina te tohu tiketike rawa atu mō te Māori performing arts I te ao katoa.

    All right. So, I’m the head of school for the undergraduate school at Te Whare wānanga o Awanuiarangi. Prior to my current role I used to be the national Programme Co-ordinator of the Bachelor of Māori Performing Arts.

     

    So, I hold a degree in Māori Performing Arts and a Masters of Applied Indigenous Studies with a focus on performing Arts. Actually my thesis was based on Te Rerenga Kotuku as an Institute of mātauranga Māori in comparison to Awanuiarangi as a tertiary Institute o mātauranga Māori. And also, as my thesis I developed the postgraduate diploma in Māori performing Arts, so, it’s the highest recognized tohu in Māori performing arts in the world.

    Kia ora. Nō reira, he ara tērā hei takahanga ma ngā ākonga e whai ana I Te Ao Haka ināianei, ne?

    Thank you. So, that’s a pathway for our ākonga who are taking Te Ao Haka at the moment?

    Āe. Ka nui te hīkaka nā te mea, nōku I te kareti o Wairoa, I whakaako paerewa ahau mō te Māori Pērforming Arts. Nō reira ka nui taku rikarika ki te kite e whakamanahia ana hei kaupapa whakauru ki te whare wānanga nā te mea e tika ana kia pērā. He pērā anō te tohu paetahi Māori Performing Arts, he pērā anō te PG Dip nā te mea he wāhanga mātauranga o te haka. 

     

     

    Ehara I te mea ko te taha rangahau anake, arā, me rangahau koe ki te tito kāore e hua noa mai, he taha mātauranga o roto. He taha mātauranga o roto I te waihanga he taha mātauranga o roto I ngā āhuatanga ki te pūoro. Mōku ake, ko te kite I te kokenga ā mohoa nei, e. He ara roa kia tae ai ki kōnei, engari ka nui taku whakahīhī ki te āpōpō.

    Yep. It’s really exciting because when I was at Wairoa College, I used to deliver the Māori Performing Arts unit standards. So, it’s really exciting for me to see that there’s change happening and that it’s been acknowledged as a university entrance subject because it deserves to be. Same as the Bachelor of Māori Performing Arts, same as the PG Dip because there’s such an academic aspect to Māori Performing Arts. 

     

    And it’s not just in the research component, like when you’ve got a rangahau to compose, it’s not just there, there’s actually an academia in movement. There’s academia in creating, there’s academia in the musical components. So, for me to see performing arts where it is now, that’s been a huge journey but I’m really proud of where it’s going.

    He roa tonu te ara, engari he timatanga. Nō reira, ka nui te mihi ki a koe I tae mai I te rangi nei. He kupu āwhina āu ki ā tātou ākonga kei waho rā e whai ana I Te Ao Haka? He aha rā?

    There’s a long way to go, but this is a start. So, thank you very much for coming today. Do you have any advice you’d give to our ākonga out there who are taking Te Ao Haka? Anything?

    Ki ōku nei whakaaro ko ngā pukenga me ngā mōhiotanga kua ākona e koe nā te mahi haka, ahakoa kei te marae me tō whānau, ahakoa whakataetae ki a Te Waka Huia, ahakoa whare taonga me Pounamu, ko ngā pūkenga me ngā mōhiotanga I ākona ka taea te hari ki ngā horopaki katoa. Ā, me kōrero tērā. Ka ako koe ki te tū pakari, ka ako koe I ētahi pukenga tauwhitiwhiti.

    I think the skills and knowledge that you learn from being in Te Ao Haka, whether it’s at the marae with your whānau, whether it’s on a competitive stage with Te Waka Huia, whether it’s in a museum with Pounamu, the skills and knowledge that you gain can be placed into any setting. And I think that needs to be acknowledged. So, you learn to be confident, you learn transferable skills.

    Koia hoki.

    Absolutely.

    Ka kitea ai tērā I te kaihaka. Nō reira, ki ahau nei he rawe te takahi I te ara o te haka nā te mea ka ū koe. Ka pakari koe I ngā wāhi e tū ai koe ahakoa ao Pākehā mai, ao Māori mai rānei.

    That can only be found in kaihaka. So, I think too, haka, having a lifetime journey in haka is really cool because it actually holds you. It makes you strong in any area you stand in, whether it’s in te ao Pākehā or te ao Māori.

    Ka rawe. Ngā mihi nunui. Ka nui te waimarie. Kua rawe katoa ngā kōrero.

     

    Nō reira Sheree, kei te mōhio ahau he kaiārahi koe, he kaiako mō Te Rerenga Kotuku, engari ko tētahi atu tūranga kei a koe ko te kaitātaki wahine. He aha ētahi āheinga? He aha ētahi pukenga me whāia? Ngā pukenga ka tipu I roto I a koe? Kōrerohia mai.

    Awesome. Thank you so much. It’s been such a priviledge. It’s been an awesome kōrero. 

     

    So, Sheree I know that you’re a leader, you’re a tutor of Te Rerenga Kotuku, another role you play is kaitātaki wahine. Can you tell us a bit about that role? What it involves, what skills you need, what skills do you develop? Tell us a bit about that.

    Me waha nui. Mōku ake ko tā te kaitātaki wahine he ārahi i te rōpū. Kaua anake i te papa whakatū waewae engari mō tua atu o te papa whakatū waewae anō hoki. Mēnā ko te tū e kōrerohia nei,

     

    Mōku, ko tōku tūranga hei kaitātaki ko te aro ki te manawataki i a mātou e tū ana ki te papa whakatū waewae. Ka tīmata i te wā tika. Ka mutu i te wā tika. He pai ki ahau kia rongo i te kapa. Nō reira ko te wā, ko te 25 mīniti, ka noho tata tērā ki a mātou ko ngā kairakuraku, e aronui ana kia kaua e hipa i te wā.

    You need a really big mouth. Kaitātaki wahine, I think for me, kaitātaki are it's about leading the team. Not just on the stage but off the stage. If you’re talking about performance, specifically.

     

    For me, my role as kaitātaki is making sure that the rhythm, when we are on the stage is right. So, we are starting at the right times. We are finishing at the right times. I like to feel where the team is at. So the timing, we've got 25 minutes, really sits with me and the guitarists, making sure that we are not going overtime.

    Ka pai.

    Right.

    Kia kaua hoki e poto rawa te wā. Nō reira ko te tere o te wā ki ahau. Ko te tīmata I te wā tika, ko te tīmata ki ngā oro tika me te whakatau anō i taku rōpū. Ehara ahau i te kaitātaki ka taki mai i mua. 

    And we’re not coming in too quick under time. So, it’s about the pace for me. Making sure we’re starting on time, making sure we're starting on the right note and just really making sure my team are tau. I'm not a kaitātaki that leads from the front.

    He pai ake kia taki ahau mai i muri, ā, he rawe hoki ki ahau te rongo i te kapa, nō reira, he rite tonu taku hāereere haere mō te papa kia mōhio ai ahau kua tau taku kapa i te papa whakatū waewae.

     

    Nō reira ko taku āhua tātaki, kia tika te wā, kia tika te rangi, kia tika te wā, ā kua tau hoki aku kaihaka I a mātou I runga I te papa whakatū waewae.

    I like to lead from the back and I like to feel the team so I often wonder across the stage just to make sure my team are a tau on the stage.

     

    So, I think that my job as kaitātaki really is making sure we start on the right note, we start at the right time and my members are looked after while we’re out there.

    Āe. Ā, he nui te kaha ka whakapaua ki tērā. 

    Yeah. So, a lot goes into that.

    He nui. He uaua hoki me ko koe te kaiako I te mea kāore koe e āhei te uru. Ko koe ngā karu o waho atu I te tīma. I te nuinga o te wā kotahi anake te otinga wiki e tū ai ahau ki te kapa nō reira me mōhio ki tō tūranga, me ngā āputa. Me mōhio koe ki ngā nekehanga, ā, me ako i te koe i tērā i te wā e whakaako ana koe. 

     

    He rerekē rawa atu te noho ki waho, tērā i te tū ki te kapa. I te nuinga o te wā, ka kotahi rā pea ahau e akoako ana me haere ki hea, engari ko te kaitātaki ki ahau, he nui ake āna mahi ārahi ka heke ana i te papa. Me tika te whakatauira atu.

     

     

    Hei tāpiri, ki aku whakaaro he nui ake te kawenga tērā I te whakaako noa I te hōtaka.

    A lot. And it’s really difficult as a tutor because you can’t be in. You’re the eyes that are always on the outside, so, I often only have one weekend where I'm in, so you've got to know your placement, you've got to know your spacing. You've got to know your choreography and you are actually having to learn that while you're tutoring. 

     

    It's very different on the outside to when you get in. So, it normally takes me a day to just figure out where I'm having to go but kaitātaki for me also lead off the stage. 

    They’re the one’s that are making sure that they are leading by example.

     

    I just also wanted to add that I think as a tutor we have a lot more responsibility than just teaching a team a bracket.

    Ko tō mātou haepapa ko te tū hei kaitiaki mātauranga Māori, ā, kei te pēhea tā tātou manaaki i tērā haepapa hei kaiako? Ka pēhea tā tātou whakatauira atu ki ngā mema hei whai mā rātou? Kei te whakatauira i te tika hei mātua. Kei te whakatauira i te tika hei whaea kēkē, hei tangata pai ki te marae. Kei te horoi rīhi. Kei te karanga, kei te poke parāoa. Ki ōku nei whakaaro, he hirahira ō mātou tūranga nā te mea kei te whakatakoto mātou i te ara whakamua mā ā tātou rangatahi.

    Our role and responsibility really is about kaitiaki of mātauranga Māori and how are we looking after that as tutors? How are we making sure that we are setting the example for our members to follow? We are setting examples as good parents. We setting examples as good aunties as, as good people on the marae. That we are there doing the dishes. We're there doing the karanga we're there baking bread. I think tutor's roles are so important because we hold a lot of the journey of young people in our hands, really.

    Hīkaka ana au kia kōrero tahi tāua anō. Akene pea, ko au tamariki, mokopuna rānei a tōnā wā, ka whāia ōu tapuwae. Nō reira e mihi ana ki a koe, he honore nui tēnei ki ahau te kōrero tahi ki a koe. Kia rawe katoa to ahiahi.

    I look forward to speaking with you again or maybe your children or grandchildren in the who will be standing in your place. So, thank you again. It’s been a real honor and a privilege you have a good afternoon.

     

     

     

    [ Accordion ]

     

    Transcript

    Translation

    He puāwai au nō runga i te tikanga,

    he rau rengarenga, nō roto i te raukura, ko taku raukura rā, he manawa nui ki te ao.

     

    Kei taku raukura, taku matua, Wharehoka, nau mai ki tēnei papa uiui, ki tēnei papa whakaemiemi kōrero, me kore noa e whai hua ai ki ngā uki, whai muri o Taranaki.

    Tēnā Koe.

    I am a product of traditional values and practices, I am the leaf of the rock lily, within the plume, that which represents my unwavering devotion to the world.

     

    My dearest treasure, my uncle, Wharehoka, welcome to this interview panel, a place where our stories are collated, in the hope that it will be of great value to the future descendants of Taranaki.

    Thank you.

    Tēnā koe Te Ingo.

    Pai hoki te noho tahi tāua ki te kōrero.

    Thank you, Te Ingo.

    It’s great to be here to talk with you.

    Koia. Koia tonu i roto i tēnei whare.

    Tēnei marae, kua roa nei e tū ana hei wāhi whakakotahi anō i a Taranaki ki te whakatairanga i tana tikanga haka.

     

    Ā, me mihi ka tika ki tēnei whare, oti noa te papa e takoto nei.

     

     

    Nō reira kō tā tāua kaupapa kōrero ko Te Ao Haka.

    Tēnā, hei huataki ake i tā tāua uiui, hei whakamārama mai ki ngā tauira oti noa, ki ngā whānau e whai ana i tēnei kaupapa o Te Ao Haka.

     

    Ko wai koe? He aha rā te orokohanga o tēnei mea te ao kapa haka i roto i a koe me tō tupuranga?

    Right. That is exactly the purpose of this space.

    This platform has been long standing as a place to unite the descendants of Taranaki to showcase our practices around haka.

     

    It is eminent that I pay homage to this platform and the ground that lays beneath.

     

    On that note, our topic of conversation is the haka world.

    To commence the interview, and as a means of providing context for our learners, and families who follow the world of haka.

     

     

    Who are you? What are the origins of the world of haka, in terms of your own upbringing?

    Tēnā koe Te Ingo.

    E whai wāhi ana kia kōrerohia tēnei kaupapa ataahua.

    Ngā Mahi ā Rēhia, puta ki te motu, engari ki roto tonu i a tāua, i a tātou o Taranaki Maunga, o Te Tai Hauāuru.

     

    Ā, mē aku hononga ki runga o Te Ati Awa, ki runga o Puketapu, Muru Raupatu, tae atu ki a tāua o Ngāti Moeahu, o Parihaka papakāinga me tērā taha ōku o taku pāpā ki roto i a Ngāti Awa.

     

    Tae rawa ki a Ngāti Pūkeko, ērā aku hononga. Engari, tipu mai au ki te take o Taranaki Maunga.

     

    Ā, taku tamarikitanga, ki roto o Te Hāwera. Kei reira taku tuatahitanga ka kite atu i ngā rōpū kapa o tērā wā i au e haututu haere nei, ki roto i a Te Hāwera. Ā, taku tuatahitanga mō te ao haka, mō ngā kapa ko te whaiwhai i te hāhi Katorika Māori -

    Thank you, Te Ingo.

    That I am able to participate in discussions around this beautiful topic. The entertainment realm of Rēhia, nationwide, but also within ourselves, those of us of Mount Taranaki, of the West Coast.

     

    I also acknowledge my connections within Te Āti Awa, upon Puketapu, Muru Raupatu, and our tribe Ngāti Moeahu of Parihaka homelands as well as my connection to Ngāti Awa on my father’s side.

     

    My connections extend as far as Ngāti Pūkeko, but I was raised at the base of Mount Taranaki.

     

    My childhood was spent in Te Hāwera. It was there that I first encountered the haka groups of that time, while I was roaming around Te Hāwera. The first time I participated in the haka world was with groups who followed the Catholic faith.

    ki runga o Hoani Pāpita, Araukuku, Ngārongo. Kei reira, ehara i te mea kapa te tino kaupapa, ko te hāhi, me ōna karakia, ōna hīmene. Nā, kei reira ka rongo i te reo Māori, tuatahi.

     

     

    Ā, me ngā hīmene me ngā karakia o tērā hāhi o tātou i tipu mai ai au ki roto i tērā āhuatanga kei reira te whānau.

     

    Uncle Roy Robinson, uncle Frank Robinson ērā momo. Aunty Mate Carr, ērā aku kuia, koroheke o tērā wā.

     

    Engari ko te kapa, ia te tau ka tū te Hui Aranga.

    Upon John the Baptist, Araukuku and Ngārongo. Indeed, but it wasn’t as if kapahaka was the sole purpose, it was the church, the prayers, the hymns. It was there that te reo Māori was heard, firstly.

     

    Also, I was raised with the hymns and prayers of that faith of ours, my family were actively involved.

     

     

    With the likes of Uncle Roy Robinson, Uncle Frank Robinson, Aunty Mate Carr, my elders of that time.

     

     

    But as for kapa haka, we would participate every year at the Hui Aranga.

    Ia Te Aranga, anā, koirā tō mātou kaupapa haere.

     

    Puta ki te motu ki Te Ikaroa-ā-Māui, ki roto a Whanganui ki Waipatu, ki roto o Heretaunga, ā, ki roto o Ngāti Rangi, Maungārongo.

    Ērā kapa, engari me pēnei ki a koe, e Te Ingo. Ehara au i te tangata whaiwhai i ngā kaupapa kapa.

     

    Ko taku tino whaiwhai ko te ao hākinakina.

    Every Easter, and so that was our purpose for attending.

     

    Nationwide, we went to Te Ikaroa-ā-Māui, we went to Whanganui in the Waipatu region, we went to Hastings and to Ngāti Rangi, Maungārongo. All those groups, but I must admit, Te Ingo, I am not really an avid follower of kapa haka.

     

     

    My real passion was actually sports.

    Nō reira ka peka atu au ki ngā huinga o Te Hui Aranga. Anā, koirā taku whāinga me ngā hautututanga o tērā wā.

     

    Engari ka kite atu i ētahi wā ka tū au ki te taha ki ngā rōpū kapa, engari ehara i te mea tino ngākaunui. 

     

    Anā, koirā i tērā wā.

    Whakamihi nei au ki taku tupuranga ki roto i te hāhi me Te Hui Aranga. Nā, he whakaarotanga ki a nanny Bidi, kātahi ka ngaro atu nei.

     

    Ki a Morvin, tētehi o ngā pou. Uncle Henare, tō koroheke pāpā.

    So, I would attend the Hui Aranga. That gave me purpose and kept me out of trouble in those days.

     

     

    But I was sometimes seen performing with haka groups, although I wasn’t overly enthused.

     

    But that was what it was like back then.

    I am grateful for my upbringing in the church and for the Easter celebrations. My thoughts are with Nanny Bidi who has recently passed away.

     

    To Morvin, who was one of the leaders. Uncle Henare, Koroheke’s father.

    Koirā te momo ka whāiatia nei e mātou i tērā wā.

     

    Nō reira ko Morvin, a aunty Kura, ngā kapa o Te Awa ki roto i te rohe o Aotea.

     

    Nā, koirā te whāinga, ngā rōpū kapa.

    Anā, ka pakeke haere, tae atu ki te kura tuarua, a Maraea Riddell, te kaiako Māori ki reira ki Te Hāwera.

     

    Anā, kātahi ka tae mai a Rawiri Gibson. Ka tū te kapa o Kimihia te Rangimārie.

     

    Nō reira ka tīmata au ki te hau atu. Kei te āhua pōturi taku urutanga ki roto i ngā kapa.

     

    Engari, ka whakataetae haere, ā, puta ki ngā whakataetae o tērā wā. 

     

    Me te tae atu ki te atamira o Te Hui Aranga. Anā, kātahi ka rongo au ki te pai, ko te wairua pai i roto i ngā kaupapa kapa.

     

    Mutu au i te kura tuarua, anā, ka peka atu au ki te taha ki te whai, ki roto i te Whare Wānanga o Waikato, ki a Tīmoti me tana arero koi.

     

    Wepuhia nei te rōpū kapa. 

    Engari tētahi tino, whakamihi nei au ki a Tīmoti, ki a Tio, ki a Te Rita, a, he kapa- 

    He tino whāinga nui ko te whai kia tika te tū o ngā kaupapa kapa ki roto i te Whare Wānanga.

     

    Engari, ko te tino whāinga o tērā kapa, ko te reo.

    Such was the caliber of people we aspired to be, in those days.

     

    The likes of Morvin, aunty Kura, the groups of Te Awa within the Aotea region.

     

    So that’s what it was all about, haka groups. We got older, went to highschool, Maraea Riddell was the Māori teacher there in Hāwera.

     

    And then Rawiri came along. The group ‘Kimihia te Rangimārie’ was established. 

     

     

    So, I started to attend, I was a bit late joining the groups.

     

     

    But, we competed, and went around to the competitions of that time.

     

    We also graced the stage at the Easter event, and it felt good, the atmosphere was great in kapa haka events.

     

     

    Once I finished high school, I continued on to University at Waikato under the tutelage of Tīmoti and his sharp tongue.

     

     

    He was very strict with the group, but I doff my hat to Tīmoti, to Tio, to Te Rita.

     

     

     

    The major purpose was to pursue correct performance standards of kapa haka within the university.

     

    But the real purpose of that group was the language.

    Ka mutu, ko te akoranga, i te mea, ako tonu au i te reo i tērā wā.

     

    Ko te reo whakahaere o Tīmoti, reo Māori katoa. Te tīmatanga ki te mutunga, i ngā wānanga, i ngā noho, i ngā noho marae, ka rongo ki te reo. Nō reira, koirā ngā wheako ka whaiwhai nei i au.

     

    Nā, ka hoki mai au ki te kāinga, muri mai i taku wā ki Te Kura Tuarua o Whakatāne.

     

    Whakaako kapa au ki reira, anā ka tīmata te whāngai haere ki ngā kapa, ko Te Huatahi tērā ki te kāinga.

    And, the lessons, because I was still learning at that time.

     

    Tīmoti tutored fully in Te Reo Māori.

    From start to finish, at the practices, the live ins, the marae stays, we would hear the language. So, those were the experiences that I followed.

     

     

    After my years at Whakatāne high school, I came back home.

     

     

    I taught haka there and began tutoring groups. Te Huatahi was one of the groups from home.

    Ka pai, ka pai. Nō reira nō tērā wā tonu a matua Rawiri.

    Nō te wā o ngā Hui Aranga, i mahi tahi ai, i kite ai koe i a ia.

    Good, good. So, that was Matua Rāwiri’s era.

    Was it during the Hui Aranga that you would see him and work with him?

    Ā, Rawiri Gibson?

     

    Āe.

     

    Āe, i tae mai ia, he kaiako ki te kura waenga hei Te Hāwera nē.

    Anā, ka ū mai ia ki roto i ngā kaupapa o Araukuku, anā, kei reira ia e tautoko haere nei. Kei reira anō tō tātou pāpā a Pahi, uncle Buster, nē, ko tētahi kaiako o tērā wā.

     

    Nō reira rāua mō tētahi wā, ka kōkiri, ka tū hei kaiako mō ngā kapa o Araukuku. Ā, ka peka atu ki Te Hui Aranga.

     

    Anā, so, nō reira rāua, anā ka tīmata te kite atu au te pai o te tū ki te kapa. 

     

    Ka tū hei whānau, ka tū hei kaupapa, me te rongo ki te reo.

    Rāwiri Gibson?

     

    Yes.

     

    Yes, well he arrived; he was teaching at Te Hāwera intermediate right. Right, and he attended the events at Araunuku, and that’s where he provided support. Our Uncle Buster was also there aye, he was one of the teachers at that time.

     

     

    So, it was the two of them at one stage, they both stood as tutors for Araukuku, who then attended the Hui Aranga.

     

     

    That’s what they did, and I began to see a vast improvement in the kapa.

     

    We stood as a family, we stood with purpose and the language was heard.

    Kia pai mai, ka rawe.

    Nā, i kōrero koe mō te wā i a koe i roto i Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato, i tō Tīmoti taha, me te aha, he tauira koutou i te whare wānanga e aru ana i te reo.

     

    Ki o whakaaro he aha tā te kapa haka taunaki, tautoko i te wā i a koe, i te wā o te ako?

    That’s amazing, awesome.

    You spoke about your time at Waikato University, with Tīmoti, as it were, you were all students studying the language.

     

     

    In your opinion, how supportive was kapa haka for you at the time you were studying?

    He horopaki reo nē, ā, he rerekē ki te ako reo i te akomanga.

     

    Anā, koirā pea i tērā wā taku wānanga reo nē. E hāngai ana ngā kupu ki ngā kaupapa o tērā wā mōhiotia nei.

     

    Ā, ko Tīmoti tērā e tito haere nei i ngā kaupapa e hāngai ana ki a mātou tonu, nō reira e hāngai ana ki ngā mahi e mahiatia nei.

     

    Nō reira he akoranga i roto i tērā, ā, he rerekē ki te akoranga ki roto i te akomanga.

     

    I ērā mea katoa, i a mātou e noho tahi nei, i a Te Rita mā. Me pēnei anō i a mātou e inu tahi nei.

     

    E whakangahau tahi nei, e waiata ana i ngā waiata o tērā wā, anā, kei reira ka piki taku kaha ki te kōrero. Ki te whakahua kupu ērā mea katoa, koirā te pai.

     

    Ko taku tino ao i au i te whare wānanga. Anā, koirā ngā pepa, e kawe nei e ngā whakamātautau, ērā mea o te noho ki te whare wānanga.

     

    Engari, mōku ake ko te whai i te reo.

    Ko Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato i tērā wā, te wānanga kia mau ki te reo.

    It provided language in context, it’s very distinct to learning in the classroom.

     

    So that was probably my first language school. The words were relevant to the purpose of that time, that we understood.

     

     

    Tīmoti would compose around the themes that were relevant to us, and were relevant to the activities we participated in.

     

    So, there was learning in that, distinct from the learning that happens in the classroom.

     

    Above all, when we would gather with Te Rita and co. It was also when we would drink together.

     

    We would party together, we would sing the songs of that time, and it was then that my ability to speak improved. To pronounce words etc, that was hugely beneficial.

     

    I was in my element when I was at university. Those were the papers which were examined through our experiences at University.

     

    But for myself it was about pursuing the language.

    The University of Waikato in those days was a place where we were immersed in the language.

    Ka pai.

     

    Nō reira he momo waka rauora i te reo te kapa haka. Ka mutu, ko tā Tīmoti he urungi i tērā waka hei āhurutanga mā koutou i roto i tā koutou ako.

    Great.

     

    So kapa haka was a vehicle for language revitalisation. And, the vehicle was driven by Sir Tīmoti, who provided shelter for you as you learnt.

    Āe.

    Yes.

    Ka rawe, ka mutu pea. Nā, ka hoki mai ki roto, mutu ana koe i te Whare Wānanga o Waikato.

     

    Ka hau atu koe ki tērā taha ōu ki roto o Whakatāne.

    He aha pea ētahi rerekētanga, ōritenga rānei, i kitea e koe?

    That’s awesome, superb. Then you came back, when you finished at Waikato University.

     

    You then reconnected with your Whakatāne side, what were some of the differences or similarities that you noticed?

    Āe, ko te pai ko te noho ki a te Whakatāne, ko te tuatahi ka noho waenga i tērā whānau ōku.

     

    Te taha ki tōku pāpā. Nā, kātahi ka tūtaki haere, ka noho au ki ngā kaupapa, ā, ko ngā karakia e haere nei ki runga i a taua kāinga.

     

    Me pēnei tonu ko ngā karakia Ringatū. Ka rāngona ki te wairua o ērā waiata. Ā, me te kite, kāore e tino kaha ngā rōpū kapa ki roto i a te Whakatāne i tērā wā.

     

    Kua pakari ināianei. Nui tonu ngā kapa nō ngā hapū, nō ngā marae. Ka tū tō rātou ake Ahurei ia rua te tau - ko Te Toki.

    Yeah, it was great staying in Whakatāne, first and foremost to reconnect with that side of me.

     

    My dad’s side. I then started to attend various events and heard karakia being conducted upon those homelands.

     

     

    Similar to those of the Ringatū faith. The spirit of the songs was felt. Although I noticed the groups were not particularly strong in the Whakatāne region at that time.

     

    They are strong now. There are so many kapa from the subtribes and marae. They hold their own festival every two years- that is Te Toki.

    Nō reira, engari i tērā wā ko te kaha o ngā kapa haka ki roto i ngā kura tuarua.

     

    You know, ko Pita Morunga tētahi o ngā kaiako o tō mātou kapa i tērā wā, o Te Kura Tuarua o Whakatāne.

     

    Anā, kei reira ka tīmata au ki te ako i ētahi o ngā waiata o tērā taha.

     

    Engari, kia hoki rānō ki te wā i au i te whare wānanga, i te mea, ko taku tau mutunga.

     

    Taku tuatahitanga ki runga i te atamira o Te Matatini, ko te

    Aotea Māori, Traditional Māori Performing Arts te ingoa o tērā wā nē.

     

    Ka tū ki runga o Ōtautahi, ko te tau 1986 nē, mātou ko te kapa.

     

    Nō reira ka mutu, koirā taku tū mutunga i te whare wānanga.

    Nā, ka peka atu au ki reira. Nā, tērā wheako, anā, ka whakaaro ake au, me pēhea kia whāngai pai ai ki ngā kapa i a au i Te Kura o Whakatāne.

    Rima tau au ki reira.

    However, in those days, secondary school kapa haka was thriving.

     

     

    You know, Pita Morunga was one of the tutors of our group in those days, at Whakatāne high school.

     

    And that’s where I began to learn some of the songs from that side.

     

    But I went back to university because I was in my final year.

     

     

    My first stand on the Te Matatini stage was with Aotea Māori, Traditional Māori Performing Arts was the name in those days.

     

     

    The group and I performed in Christchurch, in the year 1986.

     

    When that finished, that was my final stand with the university. 

    And I moved. Because of that experience I thought of ways in which I could best serve the group while I was at Whakatāne high school.

    I spent 5 years there.

    Ka pai. He roa tonu tērā te rima tau.

    Good. 5 years is quite a long time.

    Ki Whakatāne? Āe, well, ka tika, te mea ka hono atu ki tērā taha ōku.

    Kei reira tonu taku ngākau, taku manawa, mō taku nohotanga ki reira.

     

    Ā, mē te tūtaki haere i aku whanaunga, anā, tūtaki au ki taku wahine, i a Emere i tērā wā tonū.

     

    I a mātou ko aku tamariki, i kuraina a Rangiwāhia, tana kuraina tuatahi ki Te Pāroa.

    In Whakatāne? Yes, well that’s right, because I wanted to connect with that side of me. My heart and soul remain there, because of the time I spent there.

     

    I also met my cousins, and I met my wife, Emere, during that period.

     

     

    My children and I were schooled at Rangiwāhia, and her first school was Te Pāroa.

    Ki Te Pāroa?

    Te Pāroa?

    Āe, ki Te Kura o Te Pāroa, nō reira ērā akoranga katoa.

     

    Nō reira i au e whakaako ana i ngā tauira, i roto i ngā- ko te haka tonu taku tino whakaako i te mea nui tonu ngā kaiako.

     

    Engari, ka pupū ake te hiahia, kia whāngaihia te reo i a mātou e ako ana i ngā kaupapa o ngā waiata. Te mea, koirā pea te tauira nui i tuku, ā, i whāngai mai a Tīmoti.

     

    Me hāngai ō titonga ki ngā kaupapa, e hangaia te kapa nē, e hāngai ana. Mēna he waiata noa kāore he tino kiko. Ka kite, ka rongo i te āhuatanga o te tū a te kapa.

     

    Ērā āhuatanga, nō reira i aku titonga, ina ka whakaarohia ngā kaupapa e hāngai ana, ko te kapa.

     

     

    Nā, kātahi ka ū tonu ki te kaupapa. Nā, ka kite atu i roto i te tū.

     

    Nā, koirā ētahi pūkenga, e ako haere nei. Nā, tae noa ki taku hokitanga mai ki te kāinga.

     

    Hiahia nōku kia hoki mai, a ko taku hoa, o Te Whakatōhea, o Te Whānau a Apanui, o Ngāti Porou. Hiahia tonu kia noho ki tōna ake, engari mātou ko aku tama, i a Rangiwāhia, kuraina tahi kōrua.

     

    I a Kāne, ā, hoki katoa mai mātou, anā koirā te kaupapa ki runga o Rangiātea i tērā wā. Anā, ka rewahia te kapa o Te Huatahi.

     

    Me tōna tino kaupapa, pērā i te mea, he tino kapa whakataetae engari mō te reo. Ā, ka tono atu i tērā whāinga.

    Yes, Te Pāroa School, so, there were many lessons.

     

    When I was teaching the students, haka was what I taught because there were a lot of teachers.

     

     

    But then we got the urge to teach the language as we were teaching waiata, because that was what was exemplified to us by Tīmoti.

     

     

    The compositions must be relevant to purpose and to the group, relevant. If the song lacks substance, you will see it and hear it in the way the group performs.

     

     

    In all aspects, so with my own compositions, if I thought about the purpose, it needed to have relevance to the group.

     

    If you are steadfast to the purpose. That will show through in the performance.

     

    Those were some of the skills I picked up. Right up until the time I came home.

     

     

    I wanted to come home but my wife, who is from Te Whakatōhea, Te Whānau a Apanui and Ngāti Porou wanted us to stay, but not my boy Rangiwāhia and I, you two went to school together.

     

     

    With Kane, well we all came back, and that was what was happening at Rangiātea at that time. That was when Te Huatahi was established.

     

    Had real purpose because they were competitive but reo driven. And that was the goal.

    Koia. Koia, ka mutu ko Rangiātea, mōhio ana tāua.

     

    Oti noa mātou ngā Tātarakihi pakeke i runga i a Rangiātea, koia tonu te whāriki i hīkoi ai mātou.

     

    Me te aha, koirā te hapori, te hapori reo Māori o ngā motu nei nē. Nō reira, e tika ana me whai tētahi atu tikanga hev whakatairanga i Tā Koro Huirangi whāriki ki roto tonu i te, taua mauri i whakatōkia e ia ki roto tonu o Rangiātea.

     

    Oti noa ngā whare e tū nā, ka pāorooro tonu ērā waiata, me te kite tonu i a tātou e noho ana ki tērā whare o Rangiātea.

     

    Nā, he aha te- ka hoki- ka huri te aro ki tō whānau, me tō ake pāharakeke, kōrua ko whaene Emere.

     

    He aha ngā āhuatanga i pā ki a koutou ā whānau nei?

    That’s right, and we both know Rangiātea.

     

    We, Tātarakihi Pakeke, had just finished at Rāngiātea, that became the platform in which we pursued.

     

    Not to mention that was what the wider Māori language community pursued. So, it was only right that we pursued another avenue, to pay homage to that which Koro Huirangi placed in the mauri of Rangiātea.

     

     

     

    And further across the dwellings that stand, when the songs are blasted, I can just picture us sitting inside of Rangiātea.

     

    Now let’s change the subject to your family, your own nest, you and Aunty Emere.

     

     

    How has this impacted your family?  

    1Tino pātai tērā Te Ingo. Mōhio pea koe te whakautu, a kua kitea te āhuatanga ki aku tamariki. E tangi ana ki aku tamariki, i te mea, tō mātou hokitanga mai. I Whakatāne, ā, ki Rangiātea, ki reira a Te Ururoa i tērā wā. I a Huirangi, ā, e whakamihi nei ki te wairua o Rangiātea i tērā wā.

     

    Kātahi, kua whai tamariki kia ū te reo, kei reira pea te tūāpapa.

    That’s a great question, Te Ingo. You probably know the answer, and you’ve seen the nature of my children. I am so proud of my children because when we arrived from Whakatāne to Rangiātea, Te Ururoa was there at the time, and Huirangi, I commend the spirit of Rangiātea at that time.

     

    We then had children so we could be committed to the language, that was perhaps our beginning.

    Ka pai. Te kōhanga reo tonu.

    Good. The Kōhanga Reo Movement?

    Ki te kōhanga Reo

    At Kōhanga Reo

    Kia Ora

    Great

    Mō te reo, mō te reo waiata, i te mea, koirā pea tētahi wā mā māua ko Emere, kua pakari te haere o te reo. Ko Emere tētahi haere mai ki roto i a mātou. Ruarua noa iho tana reo. Engari nā te kōpae māua i pakari, te reo kōrero nē.

    For the language, the language of song, because that was time both Emere and I became proficient in the language. Emere was one that came to us with very little language, but we became more proficient with speaking.

    Koia.

    Right.

    Anā, kei reira tonu ngā tamariki, a kua hau atu a Rangiwāhia ki roto, ā, i te mea tana kuraina tau tuatahi ki te kura ki Te Pāroa. Engari tana tau tuarua, ki Te Pihipihinga Kākano mai i Rangiātea.

     

    Anā, ā, kore tōna reo. Ka hau atu. Nō reira ka whaiwhai rāua ko Kāne i tō māua hiahia mō te reo me te taha ki te kapa.

     

    Nā, koirā rāua nohinohi nei, tamariki nei. Ā, ka tū ngā wānanga reo kei reira rāua, ka tū ngā wānanga kapa haka, kei reira rāua.

     

    Anā, koirā tō rāua tipuranga. Ahakoa kua mōhiotia nei ki a rāua, kāre he tino hiahia.

     

    Āhua pērā i a au e tamariki ana “kei te haere ki kaupapa anō pāpā”.

     

    Tērā āhuatanga.

    Engari, a-

    And the children were right there with us, Rangiwāhia was right into it, because his first year at school was at Te Pāroa. But his second year was at Te Pihipihinga Kākano mai i Rangiātea.

     

     

    With no language he went all in. It was at that time; he and Kane pursued our aspiration for the language. With regards to the group.

     

    They were young at that time. They were both present at the language camps, and the haka camps, they were there.

     

     

    That was the world they grew up in. Even though I knew they may not like it.

     

     

    Kinda like me as a kid “What event are we going to now Dad”

     

    That sort of thing.

     

    Kāore he kōwhiringa

    But- ah- there was no choice

    Nā, kua pakeke haere ināianei rāua, kua tamariki ō rātou.

     

    Ā, engari mō Te Huatahi, i te tau 1993 nē. Te rewatanga o tērā kapa.

    Nā, ko Te Pare Parata tētahi o ngā kaiako i tērā tau tuatahi.

     

    Ā, tino tau mō mātou, mō Te Huatahi. I wānanga mātou, tō mātou wānanga tuatahi ki runga o Te Rata ki Ngāti Maru.

     

    I te mea kei reira a Tony Pue mā, e tū ana ki roto i ngā kaupapa. Nā, ko ērā akoranga. Anā, kātahi ko te mutunga o te tau ka tū te whakataetae ā-rohe mō Aotea.

    They are a bit older now, they have children of their own.

     

    But if we go back to Te Huatahi, the year was 1993 right? That was the year the group was established. Te Pare Parata was one of the teachers in the first year.

     

    It was easy-going for us and for Te Huatahi.

    We had our first live-in at Te Rata, within Ngāti Maru.

     

    Because Tony Pue and co. were there and stood at the various events. There was learning gained there. And at the end of the year, the Aotea regional competition was held.

    Ka Pai. He whakataetae tuatahi tēnei?

    Great. Was this the first time in competition?

    Whakataetae tuatahi, well mō Te Huatahi.

    That was the first, well for Te Huatahi.

    Mō Te Huatahi?

    For Te Huatahi?

    Engari e toru noa ngā rōpū nei, ko Te Rōpū o Pātea.

    But there are three groups, Te Rōpū Pātea.

    Nē?

    Really?

    Ko Te rōpū o Te Whānau o Te Reo, anā, ko Te Huatahi, me tāna tū tuatahi.

     

    Nā, mīharo katoa mātou, he tū noa iho te tū, ka āmenehia kia haere Te Whānau o Te Reo, me Pātea, ki te whakataetae o te motu, kei te pai tērā.

     

    Engari he whakaarotanga nō mātou ki roto i a Te Huatahi me pēhea te torotoro atu i te mea, i ngā tau ‘80, ko Pātea anahe, nē South Taranaki Māori Club i te tuatahi, Pātea.

     

    Nā, ka peka atu, kārekau he whakataetae ā-rohe, ana i mutu mai tērā tū tuatahi ka whakaaro me pēhea te toro atu ki ngā kapa o Te Awa nē.

    There was Te Rōpū o Te Whānau o Te Reo, and Te Huatahi, first stand.

     

     

    We were all amazed, we stood for the sake of standing, And then they requested Te Whānau o Te Reo and Pātea to go to the National Competition, that was great.

     

    But then we pondered within Te Huatahi how it would be possible to attend, because in the 80’s it was only Pātea, right, South Taranaki Māori Club first, Pātea.

     

    We attended, without going to regionals, and after the first stand we thought about how we could reach out to the groups of Te Awa.

    Anā, ka tū anō te tau tuarua, te whakataetae tuarua i te tau ‘95.

    Ka tū anō mātou, anā ko Te Whānau o Te Reo me Pātea e haere tonu nei ki te whakataetae. Koirā te tīmatanga o te whakahaere, te anga, a tētahi komiti whakahaere mō Te Awa Nui nē.

     

    Koirā te tīmatanga, te orokohanga o Ngā Kāhui Maunga o nāianei.

    The second year came around, the second competition in the year 1995. We stood again, and Te Whānau o Te Reo and Pātea were still in the competition. That was when the organizing committee for Te Awa Nui was formed.

     

     

    That was the origins of the Kāhui Maunga known today.

    Āe. Te Kāhui Maunga ināianei, i mua ko Aotea Waka, ā, ko Taranaki anahe i whakakanohitia e Pātea, e te tonga, e Te Whānau o Te Reo.

     

    Nā, ka toro atu ki a uncle Morvin mā. He aha rawa, i ahu mai te ingoa Aotea waka hei rohe?

    Yes. Te Kāhui Maunga now, before it was Aotea Waka, it was only Taranaki who was represented by Pātea, in the South, Te Whānau o Te Reo.

     

     

    And then it reached Uncle Morvin and co. How was it decided that Aotea Waka would be the name for the region? 

    Ā, e hāngai ana ki ngā rohe, rohe whenua pea, mō Aotea nē.

     

     

    Te mea ko tērā rohe ka toro atu ki Tūrangi, ki Te Kāhui Maunga, ā ki Tangaroa.  Ā, neke pēnei mai ki a tātou o Taranaki Maunga. Koirā te whānui.

    Because it is connected to the regions, the land locked territories of Aotea perhaps.

     

    The region spans across to Tūrangi, to Te Kāhui Maunga and Tangaroa. And moves closer to us here, from Taranaki Maunga, that is the breadth of the scope.

    Nō reira koirā tonu tētehi hiahia nui nō mātou kia, kia tono atu, ki a uncle Morvin, mōhiotia nei ko ia te pou o ngā kapa ki roto i Te Awa.

     

    Nā me pēnei pea te kōrero, i ngā tau ‘80 ko te tino whāinga o ngā kapa, i te mea i kōnei ngā kapa ki roto o Taranaki.

     

    Engari ko te tino whāinga o ngā kapa i tērā wā, ko Manu Ariki nē.

    So that is what we really wanted to do, to reach out to Uncle Morvin, he was the leader of the groups in Te Awa. 

     

     

    And I must say in the 80s this was the group to aspire to, because the groups were based here in Taranaki.

     

     

    But the group everyone aspired to in those days was Manu Ariki, right.

    Ia te tau te marama o Māehe ka peka atu, hūnuku atu ki Manu Ariki, ki te kapa ki reira, ko Trenton Martin me ōna kapa tērā. Nā, koirā te tino whāinga me Te Huatahi tonu tērā ka peka atu ki a Manu Ariki.

     

    Ehara i te mea ko Te Huatahi, he rōpū whaiwhai i te kaupapa o Manu Ariki, engari ki te taha kapa he whakataetae ka peka atu ki reira.

     

    Anā, ko ngā rōpū kapa o Te Awa ko Te Hui Aranga tonu, pērā i tōku tamarikitanga ana koirā te whāinga.

     

    Nō reira ka tīmata haere ngā wānanga, a ngā tono ki a Morv mā, a te mea, ki ngā whakataetae kura tuarua, kei reira ngā kapa o Te Awa nē.

     

    Nō reira kua tīmata te kōrero, anā i te tau ‘97 ka tū te whakataetae ā-rohe ki roto o Whanganui. Anā, kātahi ko te tū tuatahi o Matapihi.

     

    Anā, koirā, ka wikitōria rātou i tērā wā, anā, nā Morvin me tana kapa, ka kumea mai ngā kapa o Te Awa.

     

    Anā, koirā, ka whānui haere tō tātou rohe.

    Every year in the month of March, we would move over to Manu Ariki, to the group there, that was Trenton and his groups. That was the real purpose and Te Huatahi of course attended Manu Ariki.

     

    It wasn’t as if Te Huatahi was an avid follower of Manu Ariki, but when it came to competition we would attend.

     

     

    It was the groups such as Te Awa and Te Hui Aranga as well, just like when I was a child, they were the groups to aspire to.

     

    So that’s when we gathered, and we sent requests to Morv and co, because it was at the secondary competitions, where the groups of Te Awa would be.

     

     

    The discussions began in the year 1997, the same year the Whanganui regionals were held. That was the same year Matapihi stood for the first time.

     

    And they also won, so it was Morvin and his group that brought the teams to Te Awa.

     

    That is how our region expanded.

    Ka mutu pea. Me tērā tau ‘98 tētehi tino, ā, he mahara nui kei roto i au o tāua wheako. Ā, mō Taranaki tonu, nē i roto i ngā whakaritenga pōhiri, ngā tikanga i tū i taua tau.

     

     

    Kōrero mai i ētehi o ngā āhuatanga hei whakariterite i a tātou, i a Taranaki, oti noa i Te Upoko o te Ika nē.

     

    Te Trentham Racecourse, he aha te tau? ‘98 te tau nō reira āhua 11 pea te pakeke o Te Ingo i tērā tau. Māua ko Te Wairere, whaiwhai tonu ana i a Te Whare Wānanga, oti noa i a Te Huatahi, i te mea i roto rā a Pāp.

     

    Ā, me taku whakahīhī ki taku pāpā, me te mihi anō ki ngā kaupapa reo. Nē i runga o Rangiātea, ko Rangiātea tonu, hāunga mātou a māmā. Ko Rangiātea tonu tērā tūāpapa me āna tikanga i poipoi i tēnā hunga, nē, i a pāpā mā, kia whāngaia ki te reo, ki ngā tikanga.

     

    Ka mutu Te Huatahi i whakakīkī i ērā whāruarua, kia pakari ai, kia tangata anō ai nē, aku pāhake. Kia pai ai tā mātou hoki mai he taumata kei reira hei hiki anō mā mātou ko Rangiwāhia mā.

     

    Nō reira, pea e mahara ana au kui Makere, e mahara ana au ki tērā wā, tērā pōhiri nui

    That’s awesome. The year was 1998, and I have many memories about that experience. For Taranaki alone, with regards to the welcome ceremony and protocols that were conducted that year.

     

    Talk about some of the ways in which we prepare ourselves in Taranaki and the rest of The North Island.

     

     

    The Trentham Racecourse, what was the year? 1998 so Te Ingo would have been about 11 years old. Me and Te Wairere would follow Te Whare Wānanga as well as Te Huatahi, because Pāp was in there.

     

     

    I was so proud of my dad, and I acknowledge the language efforts.

    In Rangiātea, within Rangiātea. Besides our Mum, Rangiātea was our foundation and the customs that nurtured the group, the likes of my father who was fed the language, and customs.

     

     

    It was Te Huatahi who filled the gaps and was the backbone for my seniors. So, that we can aspire to the heights, to uplift Rangiwāhia, myself and others.

     

     

    I am reminded of Kui Makere. I remember those days, that big welcoming ceremony.

    Āe, kei reira, kei aku mahara i te mea, ā, ko tō mātou tuatahitanga ki runga i Te Mata, ki runga i te atamira o te motu. Katahi ko tērā mīharo katoa te kapa, anā ko tō pāpā.

     

    Te mea kua tū tahi māua i ngā rārangi. Nā, ka rongo au ki tōna reo waiata, i taku taringa, ā, i ērā maharatanga nē.

     

    Ā, me Te Paki. Ko te kaiako i tērā wā, ko Rawiri, kua hoki mai a Rawiri hei kaiako mā te kapa. 

     

    Ā, ērā āhuatanga katoa. Nō reira, koirā tō mātou whāinga, kia tū ki te atamira o te motu, anā ka mutu tērā tū kua mutu te hiahia.

     

    I runga i te mea, e kawe tonu nei ngā whakahaeretanga ki roto i a tātou o Taranaki Maunga, kua mōhiotia nei. 

    Engari ki te taha ki ngā iwi o Te Whanganui a Tara, ka tika me tū ki te taha o te haukāinga nē.

     

    Ngā kapa o reira, ā kei reira ina ka tae atu a Taranaki kua mōhiotia nei kua whakawātea ētahi tūnga ki runga i te paepae. Ko Te Rū tērā, ko Huirangi tērā. 

    Yeah, it's there in my memories, because it was our first stand at Te Mata, on the National stage. That was something else, the group were amazed, including your father.

     

    We stood side by side in the lines, then I heard his singing voice in my ears, the memories come flooding back.

     

     

    Te Paki also, he was one of the teachers in those days. Rāwiri came back to tutor the group.

     

    And so on and so forth. Our desire was to stand on the national stage, and once the performance was over, we felt accomplished.

     

    Because we were still upholding the responsibilities within Taranaki, as we know, but with the tribes of Te Whanganui a Tara, it is more appropriate that we stand with the home people right.

     

     

    The groups from there knew that if Taranaki arrived, they would make space on the paepae for the likes of Te Rū and Huirangi.

    Ā, kei reira tō mātou wāhi, te mea ko ngā hononga i runga i Te Whanganui a Tara ka tika.

     

    Nō reira he mea mīharo pai nei, nā kua haere manuhiri mai ka tū hei tangata whenua ki runga, ki roto i ngā rārangi o te haka pōhiri.

     

    Anā, nō reira ko tō mātou harikoa ehara i te mea he kaitirotiro noa, he kaikapa tonu.

     

    Nā, nō reira koirā tāku, ka mutu tērā hiahia ki roto i a mātou.

     

    Nā, ka hoki rā anō ki roto i te tau 2000 ki runga o Waikato, Tūrangawaewae. Engari mō tērā tū he nui ngā mīharotanga mō mātou, me te tū i te wā i te tū tuatahitanga o Matapihi ki runga i te atamira o te motu.

     

    Nō reira, tērā ko te whai tonu i te reo tonu te hiahia nui o ngā kapa o Te Huatahi, ā ngā kaikapa o Te Huatahi. Engari, ā, kei reira kua tīmata anō ngā wānanga mō te tū.

     

    O roto o tō tātou o Taranaki, o te Hauāuru, anā kua mōhiotia nei, tērā kōrero mō te hiki o te waewae, o te kore hiki o te waewae o ngā wāhine.

     

    Anā, koirā kei te kimi me pēhea te tū e tika ana, e hāngai ana, ā me te mōhio taua āhuatanga anō ētehi o ngā kaiako nō iwi kē.

     

    Nō reira kā kawea mai i o rātou tū. Ērā tohe, e tohe nei, e wānangahia nei.

     

    Ā, me te rere o te reo, me te mita o te reo, anā ka whakamihi nei au ki a Huirangi, ā ki a Te Ngāruru.

     

    Ko ia tētehi e kaha aki ana ki ngā rōpū, kia rongo ki te mita o te kāinga, rongo ki te mita o Te Maunga, rongo ki te mita o Te Tai Hauāuru. 

     

    Koira te pai o tērā wā nē, ā i te mea kua ngoikore ngā mahi ā Rēhia ki roto i a mātou.

     

    Ehara i te mea kua pakari rite ki ngā rōpū taniwha o te motu, nā kei reira tonu te ngoikoretanga.

     

    Ehara i te mea, koirā ōku whakaaro ake nei, kia eke. Ā, engari ināianei ka kite atu kua Rātana. Kua puta i tērā tū tuatahi, ka mahara tonu au i tō rātou tū tuatahi.

     

    Ā, ki runga o Whanganui tērā, i tērā tau.

     

    Tae noa ki tēnei tau, tēnei wā kua pakari.

    That was our place, based on the connection with Te Whanganui a Tara.

     

     

    So, it was really amazing that we went as visitors but stood as the local people in the lines of the welcoming ceremony.

     

     

    We were happy that we weren’t just spectators, we were performers.

     

     

    So that’s why I said we felt accomplished.

     

    Let’s go back to the year 2000, at Tūrangawaewae in Waikato. There were many amazing aspects of that performance for us, it was also Matapihi’s first stand on the national stage.

     

     

     

    The language was still the main goal for Te Huatahi and for the performers of Te Huatahi, but that was the time when we started to think about the way we performed.

     

    Within Taranaki, in the West Coast, it is known that we do not lift our feet, women do not lift their feet.

     

     

    So, we looked for ways that best represent us when it comes to performance, knowing of course that some of the teachers were from other iwi.

     

    So, they would bring their performance style. Those were the things we debated.

     

     

    Also, with regards to language fluency, language dialect, and I acknowledge Huirangi and Te Ngāruru.

     

    They would strongly advise groups to use the dialect of home, the dialect of the mountain, of the West Coast.

     

     

    That was the beauty about that era, because the traditional performing arts were not strong within our region.

     

    It's not as if we are up there with the big guns of the country, we still have our weaknesses.

     

    It's not as if my focus is solely on winning. But when I saw Rātana, they did well on their first stand. I still remember the first time they stood.

     

     

    It was in Whanganui, last year.

     

     

    And this year, there is a vast improvement. 

    Pakari ake nei nē?

    They have really improved, right?

    Ā, ērā āhuatanga, nō reira tō mātou, ā mō te tū o Te Hauāuru, anā ka tika me pupuri a Whanganui ki tōna, ki tōna tū.

     

    Ka pupuri a Taranaki ki tōna tū, ka puta te raki o Taranaki ki tōna tū o ngā hapū. 

     

    Te tū a te iwi, me te mita o te reo. Koirā tāku e kī nei, ko tērā āhuatanga ka rāngona.

     

     

    Anā, ka hāngai tonu nei ki ngā, ka kite, i te mea ko tērā mea, ki te taha kei ngā whakataetae pakeke nei. Engari i roto i ngā kura tuatahi, Tātarakihi, i tērā wa, kāre e hia-

    In many ways, our unique style comes from there, the West Coast style, so it is only right that Whanganui hold on to their way of performing, their style.

     

    Taranaki will hold onto their style, and to the north of Taranaki, their style is uniquely sub tribal.

     

    The performance style of the tribe and the dialect of the language.

    That’s why I am saying those are the aspects that were heard.

     

    And of course, the performance needs to be relevant, and all of the criteria which needs to be taken into account, in the adult competitions. But in the secondary comps, Tātarakihi, in those days, not so much

    Mahara ana au ki te mea tuatahi

    I remember the first one

    Yeah, engari mōhiotia nei ehara i te whakataetae

    Yes, but you know that it wasn’t a competition

    Ehara i te whakataetae.

    It wasn’t a competition.

    He ngahau noa iho. Me pēnei au “He aha te take o tērā?”. Nā mō ngā kura tuarua, kāre he whakataetae, kāre e hiahiatia hei whakataetae.

     

    Mea atu “he aha te take o tērā?”. Ā, pēhea pakari ai, ā, nāianei ka tū ngā whakataetae mō ngā kura tuarua.

     

    Mō ngā kura tuarua, ā, tuatahi, tuarua, nē tukua o tātou kapa ki ngā whakataetae o te motu.

     

    Kia tipu mai ai rātou i roto i tērā ao.

    It was only for entertainment. And I was like “What is the point in that?” There was no secondary school comp, competition was not the priority.

     

    I said, “What is the point of that?” How can they develop and improve, so now there is a secondary competition.

     

    For secondary school, primary, secondary, send our groups to the national competitions.

     

    So that they are raised in that world.

    Āe, āe tika tonu.

    Koinā, koinā taku kite i roto i wā tātou tamariki, i ngā wharekura o Taranaki nei. 

     

    I ēnei rā te kounga i te whakataetae. Kua whai taumata rātou hei tiro ake mā rātou nē. Anei pea tētahi.

     

    Engari he aha pea ngā rautaki, he aha pea ngā kaupapa e eke ai a Taranaki, i tōna tū, i tōna mita.

     

    Ā, i roto hoki i ōna kōrero.

    He aha, ki ō whakaaro tētehi o ngā tino kaupapa ka whakatairangihia e Taranaki kapa haka?

    Yes, that’s right.

    That’s exactly what I saw in our students at wharekura, here in Taranaki.

     

    These days, because of the caliber of the competition, they can aspire to a high standard. Here’s one.

     

    What are perhaps some key strategies, what are the themes that would elevate Taranaki, in terms of performance and dialect?

     

    Also, within our own stories.

    What are some key ideas or themes, promoted by the haka groups of Taranaki? 

    Ā, kia, a te mutunga ki au nei, kō wai ka tū i mua i te aroaro o ngā kapa. Ā, mēnā, anā koirā taku koa, taku hari kia kite atu i tō reanga.

    Te mea, tō tipuranga, tae atu ki aku tamariki, ā, i roto i tērā ao.

     

     

    Ehara i te mea he tauhou ki te reo, ehara i te mea he tauhou ki te tū ki te kapa, ehara i te mea he tauhou ki te tū ki te whakataetae.

     

    Nō reira ehara i te mea kua hipa katoa ki runga i o pokohiwi e Te Ingo.

     

    Ā, engari, ka tika, mēna ko te tangata kei te tū i mua i te aroaro o te rōpū, me ōna mōhiotanga, ōna wheakotanga, tōna pakari, tōna whakahīhī. Anā, kei reira ka kite te pakari o te rōpū.

    At the end of the day, who will stand up in front of the groups. And that is what makes me happy, when I see your generation, because from your generation to my children - you’re fully immersed in that world.

     

    They are not unfamiliar with the language, they are not unfamiliar with kapa, they are not unfamiliar with performing in competitions.

     

     

    It’s not that I am putting everything on your shoulders, Te Ingo.

     

     

    But the point is, if someone tutors a group who has knowledge and experience, who is strong and proud, then you will see the strength of the group.

    Ā, nō reira me whakatū wānanga tonu tātou, ngā kaiako o te rohe.

    Kia wānangahia nei me pēhea te whakapakari haere nei.

     

    Ā, kite atu au i ētahi o ngā rohe puta i a Mataatua, i a Te Arawa, i av Tāmaki Makaurau, i a Waikato, i a Te Tai Rāwhiti.

     

    Nē, koirā ngā tauiratanga mā tātou.

     

    Engari, mīharo tonu nei au ki ngā kapa o Te Pura, Te Purapura o te Tai Hauāuru. 

     

    Nā, tō mātou i whakakanohi i ngā kaupapa, ki roto i ngā iwi o Tokomaru, o Kurahaupō waka.

     

    Nō reira, ā, kua kite atu nei i ngā tamariki e noho tahi nei hei rekereke ki ērā kapa, I te mea koirā te āpōpō kua kōrerotia nei.

    We should hold meetings, those of us tutoring in the region. To discuss how to improve, moving forward.

     

     

    I have seen that in some of the other regions, Mātaatua, Te Arawa, Tāmaki Makaurau, Waikato and Te Tairāwhiti.

     

     

    These are good examples for us.

     

    But I am so amazed at the groups of Te Pura, Te Purapura o Te Tai Hauāuru.

     

     

    We represented the key issues within the tribes of Tokomaru, of the Kurahaupō canoe.

     

    And we’ve seen the children who learnt alongside those groups, that is the future we are talking about.

    Tika, tika tonu. Ka mutu koinā te taumata ā whakataetae nei, kua rongonui ki te motu.

     

    Ā, e mōhio ana tāua ki tā tāua kaupapa, arā, ko Taranaki Tū Mai.

     

    Tēnā, ki o whakaaro i roto i ngā tau, me taku mōhio e tino kaingākau ana tēnei kaupapa ki a koe.

     

    Kaua hākinakina noa nei, engari ā tīkanga nei, ā reo nei, te papa taumata taupatupatu.

     

    Nē he mea kua tino whakaihiihi, kua tino whakawanawana i a tātou o Taranaki nei.

     

    He aha o kitenga, ā, oti noa, o rongo mō te anamata i roto, mō ngā tau kei te heke mai, i roto i tēnei kaupapa o Taranaki Tū Mai.

    That’s absolutely right. And that is the standard across the board, well known nationally.

     

    And we both know about our initiative, Taranaki Tū Mai.

     

    In your opinion, throughout the years, and I know you are passionate about this topic.

     

     

    Not just sports, but also traditional practices, language, and the debating forum.

     

    We take great pride in acknowledging those of us from Taranaki.

     

     

    What is your vision, and what can you tell us about the future, for the years to come according to the strategy, Taranaki Tū Mai?

    Ā, ko te tuatahitanga mō te Taranaki Tu Mai, tōna rewatanga nē.

     

    Ā, koirā tō mātou, ka kite atu i ngā Ahurei puta ki te motu.

    Ā, i te whakakotahi nei i ngā iwi o tēnā takiwā, o tēnā takiwā, o tēnā rohe o te motu. Nā, koirā tāku mō, he tira nē, e wānangahia nei me pēhea tētehi kaupapa, whakakotahi nei i ngā iwi o te kāinga.

     

    Ā, nō reira ka rewa mai a Taranaki Tū Mai i te tau 2009 nē. Ki runga o Wai. Koirā te tuatahitanga, ia rua te tau.

     

    Nā, kua tū ki tēnā iwi, ki tēnā iwi. Huri noa tō tātou tauheke nā ka pakari haere. 

     

    Nā, ka mīharo au ki tērā āhuatanga. Ā, ki te taha ki ngā kapa.

    Ā, i te mea, me paku kōrero au mō te whai i ngā kerēme nē, o te Karauna.

    The first thing about Taranaki Tū Mai was when it was launched aye.

     

    That’s what we did, we saw the Ahurei festivals throughout the country. Where the tribes would gather, from this region, from that region, from the various districts around the country. So that’s the aim of this group is to come up with ways to unite the people at home under a common cause.

     

    So, Taranaki Tū Mai was launched in 2009. Held in Wai, that was a first, every two years.

     

     

    Now it is held in various iwi around the place and has really picked up momentum.

     

    I was amazed by that, with regards to the kapa. Because let me tell you about our claims, to the Government.

    Ērā toimahatanga kua tau nei ki runga i tēnā iwi, ngā iwi e waru huri noa.

     

    Nā, ka puta ki tērā te ana o tērā taniwha, kia kite tētehi kaupapa e whakakotahi nei i a tātou. I te mea ko ngā kaupapa kerēme he kaupapa wehewehe.

     

    Nō reira, e tika ana tērā wā i te mea ko te nuinga i puta mai i ngā kerēme. Ngā taupatupatu, ngā tautohe o te kerēme. Koirā tētehi kaupapa, anā me tō mātou īnoi ki te taha ki te kapa.

     

    Kawea mai te tū o Ngāti Ruanui.

    Kawea mai te kōrero, te mita o Ngā Rauru.

    Kōrerohia mai ngā tohe ki roto o Ngāruahine Rangi.

     

    Ērā, me hāngai ngā kaupapa, o tēnā iwi, o tēnā iwi, ki a Taranaki Tū Mai.

    The burden that each tribe had to carry, there were 8 throughout.

     

     

    That brought the dragon out from its cave, we needed a common cause to unite us, because the claims were causes that divided us.

     

     

    So, it was accurate because most of the issues came about by the claims. The debates and disputes of the claim. That was one matter, and what we asked of the groups, was to bring their own performance style.

     

    Bring your Ngāti Ruanui performance style. Bring the stories and the dialect of Ngā Rauru. Tell us about the grievances within Ngāruahine Rangi.

     

     

    Those and the many issues of this tribe and that tribe, to stand as Taranaki.

    Engari e toru ōna whāinga nei, ko te rua o ngā uara. Ko te whanaungatanga, ko tēnei mea ko te Taranaki Maungatanga. Ā, me tēnei mea ko te kotahitanga, anā koirā ōna whāinga, e pērā noa. Nā, ka kite i roto i ngā kapa.

     

    Nā, mīharo nei au ki ki ngā kapa ināianei ka kawea mai o rātou kaupapa ki runga i te atamira o Tū Mai.

     

    I te mea i te tuatahi, nā koirā tātou ia te rōpū he Mangumangu Taipō te haka engari nāianei, ka kawea mai o rātou kōrero.

     

    Ā, ētahi o ngā kapa ka āta whakaarohia ko tētahi kāre e kore ko tēnei tū, puta ki te motu ka hakaina nei mō te Mate Urutā.

     

    He aha tōna pāranga ki a tātou, ngā iwi o Taranaki. Ērā whakaaro, engari anō nei ehara i te mea hipa ki runga i o pokohiwi, tō koutou rēanga.

     

    Engari mō te āpōpō me tukua a Taranaki Tū Mai kia whakakotahi.

    There are three main objectives, the second of the values is relationships, what it means to belong to Taranaki Mountain. And of course, unity, that was the objective, simple, and you see it in the groups.

     

     

    And I am amazed at the groups now, they bring the issues on to the stage of Tū Mai.

     

     

    At first, every group would perform Mangumangu Taipō, the haka, but now they bring their own stories.

     

     

    Some groups think about it carefully, others no doubt will haka throughout the country will haka about the pandemic.

     

     

    What were the impacts on the us, the tribes of Taranaki, those issues, but it's not as if your generation is expected to carry the load on your shoulders.

     

    But for the sake of the future Taranaki Tū Mai must be united.

    Āe. Tika. Ka mutu kei roto tonu i tēnā kāhui whakahaere a tēnā iwi, a tēnā iwi, a tēnā iwi, he mātanga reo anō.

     

    Me te aha kua kite au i te reo a tērā tangata, pērā i a Jaimee, pērā i a Hēmi, pērā, i a papa Ruka mā.


    Me i roto i ngā whakahīnga waiata mō tēnā iwi, mō tēnā iwi, mō tēnā iwi. Nō reira e mihi ana ki te kounga tonu o te reo. Kua whakaūngia ki roto o Taranaki Tū Mai, i roto o tērā wāhanga o te kapa haka nē.

    Yes. That’s true. Also, within the various organisations of the tribes, there are language exponents.

     

     

    As a result, I have seen the language of that man, like Jaimee, like Hēmi. Like Papa Ruka and co.

     

    Also, within the song compositions of the various tribes. So, I acknowledge the quality of the language, instilled in Taranaki Tū Mai, within that segment of Kapa Haka.

    Āe tika tonu, me pērā nē. I te mea kei reira pea te kīnaki kia pu-.

    That is correct, and so it should be, that is perhaps the icing on the cake.

    Ā Tonga?

    Oh, Tonga?

    Ā, Tonga.

     

    Āe kei te ako au i tāna whakaeke i tēnei wā. Ā, nā koirā te āhuatanga, me te taha, ā, kāre anō kia tino kōrerohia mō te taha ki te poi.

     

    Waiho māu tērā.

    Te mea, ā, koirā pea tētahi i o tātou putanga atu. Nā, koirā tētehi tauiratanga nē, tō tātou putanga atu ki Te Auau ki te Rangi.

     

    Tana whakahautanga, ki a Rangiriri inā tata nei. Ā, koirā te tūmanakotanga ia te tau mā te iwi e noho nei te kaupapa.

     

    Waiatatia, ka tukuna te waiata mōteatea mā rātou e kōkiri.

    Anā, ka ako tahi tātou ki taua mōteatea.

     

    Hei waiata mā te maunga e kawe nei ki ngā kaupapa a te motu.

    Ēra akoranga.

    Tonga.

     

    Yes, I am learning his whakaeke right now. And that’s one of the components, we haven’t spoken much about poi.

     

     

    I’ll leave that for you.

    That’s perhaps one of the examples right, of our exit to Te Auau ki te Rangi.

     

     

     

    His plea to Rangiriri, recently.

    And that is the hope every year for the host iwi to decide on the themes.

     

     

    Sing it, the ancient chants will be for them to lead so that we can learn that ancient chant together.

     

     

    For the people of the mountain to sing and take to the various events nationally. Those are valuable lessons.

    Kua tino tupu nē, te kohinga waiata ā iwi i roto i ngā kaupapa ā iwi nā Taranaki Tū Mai.Kua tino kite au i tēnā, āe.

    There has been exponential growth, the repertoire of tribal songs heard at tribal events, led by Taranaki Tū Mai. That is what I have seen, yes.

    Pēnā i tō mātou taenga atu ki a Rangiriri, ā i tērā wā.

     

    Ā, poi, kua mōhiotia nei ngā kaipoi o Ruanui, ētahi o Ruahine, ētahi o Taranaki, ētahi o Te Atiawa.

     

     

    Anā, kotahi te tū, kotahi te poi, kua rua ngā poi, a mōhiotia nei kei te mōhio te katoa. Tukua.

    Like when we arrived at Rangiriri, that time.

     

    And, the poi, mastered by the poi exponents of Ruanui, some from Ruahine, some from Taranaki and Te Atiawa.

     

    We stood united, with single poi, double poi, and I knew that everyone knew the actions, give it heaps.

    Ka pai. Ka pai. 

     

    Ā, kua kite hoki au i tēnei papa kapa haka. He tūāpapa anō hei whakatairanga tonu i ngā poi, kāre e kore kua kōrerohia a Janine mā mō tēnā kaupapa.

    Very good. Very good.

     

    I have also seen it on this haka platform. This is another foundation to showcase poi, no doubt Janine and co. have talked on this subject matter.

    Āe kua kōrerohia, kōrerohia

    Yes, they have talked about it.

    Nā, ka hoki mai ki te whakataetae.

    Ā, he aha o whakaaro mō te kapa rā Te Ahi a Tahurangi?

    I te mea ko tāku, he kapa i tipu mai i Taranaki Tū Mai nē?

     

     

    Ka tū mai ki Taranaki Tū Mai, nā wai rā ka whanake ake ki te kaupapa, ā, te whakataetae ā-rohe i Te Upoko o te Ika.

    Anā, kua puta ki Te Matatini.

     

    I tērā o ngā Matatini, tō rātou tūnga tuatahi i- oh kāre anō kia tū, tērā atu o ngā whakataetae ā-rohe ka puta a Te Ahi a Tahurangi.

    Nō reira he kapa tēnā i tīmata tonu i Taranaki Tū Mai.

    Back to competition.

    What are your thoughts about the group, Te Ahi a Tahurangi?

    Because my thinking is that it is a group that grew up with Taranaki Tū Mai right?

     

    They stood at Taranaki Tū Mai and gradually developed in the movement, and in the North Island regional competition, then they went on to compete at Te Matatini.

     

    Last Matatini was their first stand, oh they haven’t stood yet, the other regional competition, Te Ahi a Tahurangi debuted.

    So, it is a group that started as a result of Taranaki Tū Mai.

    Āe, a kua wareware, a ko wai?

    Yes, yes, I forgot, who runs it?

    Ā, Tama Ale mā

    Tama Ale and co.

    Oh yeah yeah āe tika

    Oh yeah yeah, that’s right

    He aha o whakaaro, he aha ngā kare ā-roto i roto i a koe i tō kite, i tō rongo rānei mō tētehi kapa pērā i Te Ahi a Tahurangi, me te rongo i tīmata i Taranaki Tū Mai?

    What are your thoughts, and how do you feel when you see and hear of a group like Te Ahi a Tahurangi, knowing also that they came about because of Taranaki Tū Mai?

    Ā, he rawe, me tokona, ahakoa kei hea e noho ana.

    Te mea tētahi o ngā whāinga kia hoki mai ngā kapa e noho rāwaho.

    Ā, tō rātou tuatahitanga i roto o Taranaki Tū Mai, ka pai.

     

    E tau ana, tukua o kaupapa ki runga i te atamira o te motu.

     

    Nō reira, koirā pea te pai o te Tonga pērā i a Tame. I te mea kaha nei ka hoki mai ia ki ngā kaupapa nē.

     

    Nā, koirā pea tētahi, i tō mātou noho tahi, wānanga tahi me Te Huatahi tōna rewatanga.

     

    Ko tō mātou hiahia ai kia hau atu i roto i ngā whakataetae, engari ko tō mātou tino whāinga ko te reo.

     

    Ko te tuarua ko te tautoko i ngā kaupapa ā te iwi, ahakoa te kaupapa.

     

    Nā, e ngana ana kia peka atu ki tēnā kaupapa nui. Pērā i ā, tētahi kaupapa i roto i ēnei rua tau, ā ko Te Pūtake o te Riri nē.

    Yes, it's amazing, they must be supported regardless of where they reside, because one of the main objectives is for kapa who stay outside of the region, to come home. And their debut was in Taranaki Tū Mai, very good.

     

    Very elegant, now showcase your cause on the national stage.

     

    That’s one of the good things about Tonga. Like Tame, because they are good at coming back to our events.

     

    That was also what we did when we would meet with Te Huatahi, when it was first established.

     

    We wanted to be a competitive group, but our real objective was language revitalisation.

     

    Secondly, we wanted to support iwi led events, no matter the cause.

     

     

    We tried to attend big events, like Te Pūtake o Te Riri held every two years.

    Nē, i te mea kua kōkiri ki te katoa o ngā kaikapa o Taranaki whānui kia tū ki runga o Wai.

     

    Yeah. 

    E mīharo ana au ki tērā haka pōhiri, kei reira ngā taiaha, kei reira te poi.

     

    Ā, e hāngai ana ki te tū a Taranaki.

    Nā, koirā pea te kupu mō Tonga nē?

     

    Kia rangona ki te tū o Taranaki, ki te taki o te poi, ērā āhuatanga katoa. Mīharo ana ki tēnei mea, tukuna ngā kapa kia tū.

    It was organised for all performers from the wider confederation of Taranaki to stand united at Wai.

     

     

    I was amazed by that welcoming ceremony, there were taiaha, and poi.

     

    Keeping with the way Taranaki perform.

    That’s probably the word for Tonga right?

     

    To adhere to Taranaki’s stance, to the beat of the poi, that sort of thing. It was amazing to let the groups perform.

    Ka pai. 

     

    Nā, he nui ā tāua kōrero mō te taha ki te tū, mō te taha ki te reo o te kapa haka. I roto hoki i tā tāua whakakapi, whakakōpani i tēnei kōrero, he aha pea ētahi kupu akiaki oti noa o whakaaro mō te taha ki te whakahaere?

     

    Mōhio ana kua whai wheako koe ki te taha whakahaere i ngā kaupapa nui nei, i ngā whakataetae nui, i ngā huihuinga pēnei tonu i a Te Pūtake o te Riri.

     

    Ā, e kite ana he momo whanaketanga pea tēnā, he momo ara poutama pea tērā mā te “kaihaka”.

     

    Ka tīmata hei “kaihaka”, ka whanake hei “kaiako”, ka whanake hei “kaiwakawā” pea. Ā, ka whanake hei “kaiwhakahaere” i ngā huihuinga nui o te motu, kāore au i te tino mōhio kō wai pea ngā kaihaka.

     

    Well, āe, pērā ki a uncle Tama mā, engari ā kaihaka, ā kaiako.

     

    He aha hoki ētahi pūkenga, ētahi wheako hei whāinga mā mātou kāre anō au kia whakahaere huinga kapa haka?

     

    Ā, hei whāinga kia pakari, kia tutuki pai ai tētahi kaupapa haka.

    Good.

     

    We have spoken a lot about performance and about the language of kapa haka. As we conclude this discussion, what are some words of advice, what is your perspective with regards to organisation?

     

     

    I know that you have experience with regards to organising major events, competitions, and gatherings such as Te Pūtake o te Riri.

     

     

    I see that as a sort of development, or scaffold for the “performers”.

     

     

     

    They start as performers and develop into “tutors” and then onto being “judges” perhaps. And eventually they can be “organisers” for national events, I don’t know who those performers would be.

     

     

    Well, yes, the likes of uncle Tama and co. performers and tutors.

     

    What are some skills, some experiences that we can aspire to, those of us who have not yet organised a kapa haka event?

     

    So that we can aspire to be successful in the way future events are managed and organised.

    Pātai pai tērā nē Te Ingo. I runga i te mea, ā, ko te pai o te whakaako kapa mō tētehi kaupapa nē.

     

    Ka tīmata ia, i te wānanga me tō tira nē. I te mea, ehara i te mea ko te tangata me tōna kotahi.

     

    He tira. E kōkiri nei he aha te kaupapa, he aha ngā waiata, tērā pea ka kōrero ia ki te kapa, i o rātou whakaaro.

     

    Ētahi wā ka waiho mā te kaitito. Engari, ā, ko tōna mutunga, tae noa ki te tū o te kapa kua tutuki tētahi tūnga whakataetae, kaupapa nui rānei. Nā, koirā te hīkoi nē? I roto i tērā hīkoi tae noa ki tōna tutukitanga.

     

    Ā, ko te mahi o te kaiārahi, ko te kaiako, ko te rangatira o te tira kia kōkiri te āhuatanga o te rōpū nē. Mirimiri i te wairua, kōrerohia ki tēnā e kotiti haere nei, e tohe haere nei, e haka haere nei nē.

     

    Koirā te tōrangapū kua kōrerotia nei mō tētahi tira.

    That’s a good question, Te Ingo. Because teaching haka is about being purposeful. 

     

    It begins with group practices and is driven by the collective not by individuals.

     

     

    A group. That decides the topics, what the songs will be and they may even open the floor to the group for ideas.

     

     

    Sometimes they leave it up to the composers. But, once completed, the group performs at a competition or other major event. That’s usually the process, right? That’s the process through to its completion. 

     

    And the role of the mentor, the tutor, the leader of the group is to create unity in the ranks. To uplift the spirits and not to let anyone go astray or create animosity. 

     

     

     

    That is group politics that I am speaking about.

    Ā, nō reira, koirā pea taku akoranga i au e tū hei kaiako. Ā, me kōrerohia, ki te hunga e tika ana mēnā tūtū te pūehu. Kia kaua e panaia nē, i te mea ka pupū ake.

     

    Engari, ka kōkiri kia hau atu ki tērā mō tētahi wā mirimiri pai ai, ā, ērā āhuatanga.

     

    Nā, tae noa ki ngā kaupapa nui, e mīharo ana au i te mea kua mōhiotia nei. Ā, kei reira taku hoa rangatira. Ā, kei reira a Emere i te mea, a māua māua.

     

    Ā, engari, e pono ana tō tira ki a koe, kei reira. Kei reira te huarahi, kei reira te oranga o te kaupapa.

     

    Mēna kei te āhua kotiti te tira ki a koe, ka pupū ake.

     

    Nō reira, tōna mutunga, kōrerohia ngā kaupapa ki te hunga e tika.

    Kaua e tatari, kaua e tārewa. 

     

    Kōrerotia, whakatau, haere tonu.

    That is my own experience as a tutor. If there are any disputes one must talk to those involved, do not kick them out as it will only escalate things.

     

     

    But take everything into careful consideration until there is a resolution, that sort of thing.

     

    Even with major events, I am amazed because I know that my wife is there. Emere is there, that’s how we are.

     

     

     

    But if your group is loyal to you, that’s important. That is the pathway to the success of the movement.

     

    If the group is not loyal to you, it will show.

     

    So, in conclusion, speak up to those who are involved. Do not wait and do not leave any matters unresolved.

     

    Speak up, settle the matter, carry on.

    Tika. Tēnā rawa atu koe i ērā kupu akiaki.

    Kia ū tonu tātou ki ērā uaratanga, me ērā mātāpono i mahue mai e Ngā Manu e Rua. Nē rā, nē.

     

    He whakaaro pai ki te tangata. He maungārongo ki runga ki te whenua. Mēnā rā ko te atamira, ko te papa haka.

    Ā, oti noa he whai korōria ki te Atua.

     

    Me te whakapono, koinā ki au nei ko te whakapono ki roto i ngā mātāpono i mahue mai ki a mātou i roto i te kapa haka.

     

    Me taku whakatairanga i a koe e taku pāpā. Kei te noho au i konei i roto i te whakaiti nui. Ā, me taku arohanui ki ngā mahi nunui kua whakatutukia e koe.

     

    Hei painga mō mātou, engari te heke tonu o tērā tikanga, o ērā kōrero ki o tamariki me kī. Ki a Rangi, ki a Kāne, ki a Kere, ki a Awa. Oti noa ō mokopuna nē.

     

    Tō pāharakeke kei te tipu, kei te whānui, kei te mātotoru haere. Nō reira mihi ana ki a koe kua mahue mai he tauira.

     

    Tino rangatira, he raukura tēnei tauira nē, ka titia i roto i a mātou. Tēnā rawa atu koe taku pāpā.

    That’s right. Thank you for those words of advice.

    We must hold fast to those values and principles left to us by Ngā Manu e Rua. Yeah.

     

    Do not have any ill thoughts towards people. And peace will reign on the land. And that extends to the stage, to the haka platform. And finally, all glory is to God.

     

     

    One must have faith, that to me is the meaning of faith in the principles that were left to us through kapa haka.

     

     

    And I put you on a pedestal, my uncle, I am humbled and ever so grateful for the amazing work you have accomplished.

     

     

    For our betterment, but also so that the customs and the ethos are transmitted to your children, To Rangi, Kane, Kere, Awa and to the grandchildren.

     

    Your family tree is growing and expanding. So, it is only fitting that we thank you for the example you have left behind.

     

    Very prestigious, this example is a treasure etched inside of us.

    Thank you very much, my uncle.

    Tēnā koe Te Ingo

    Thank you, Te Ingo.

     

     

    [ Accordion ]

    Intro during while music plays are shots of a bridge over the river, over to a shot over looking the ocean and beaches. Then a close up of a carving, then a significant building in Opotiki on to the road sign for Opotiki. Panning shots of a historical painting, then back to the river and barge. We then have a soaring shot of a bird eye view of the Opotiki district, into a pan shot of a church and carvings that are landmarks in this area. Shots of the skate part which contains carved pou situated in the skate part ending that shot with a close up of one of the pou. Ending the intro on a shot overlooking the ocean and beach coming down to the carved pou with the words Te Whakatōhea on the screen. Closing it off with the words on the screen Te Ao Haka with the logo for Te Ao Haka. As the interview begin we have our guests for the day Te Mihingaamaru Patterson and Waimarie Koopu sitting comfortably on a couch with the interviewer Tauke (Te Hapimana) King as they begin conversation.

    Te Reo Māori

    Te Reo Pākehā

    Ka ū mai a Aotea, mai te hauāuru. Ka tū mai ki Te W’akatō’ea. Taranaki maunga, nekeneke atu kia piri koe, kia Mātītī, auē.

     

    Ngā uri o Turi, o Rongorongo, ki ngā uri o Toroa. Me w’ai anō Wairaka, tōia mai koe ki te paepae tapu e ū mai nei. E hoa mā, tēnā rawa atu kōrua.

    Aotea arrives from the west. Stops at Te Whakatōhea. Taranaki come unto Mātītī.

     

     

    The descendants of Turi, of Rongorongo, come onto the descendants of Toroa. Follow in the path of Wairaka, welcome unto the kaupapa that has brought you here. My dear friends, greetings to you both.

    Tēnā koe.

    Greetings to you.

    Nā mātou anō ‘oki te māringanui kia noho ngātahi ai tātou ki te kōrero mō tēnei taonga hirahira rawa atu e kīia nei ko Te Ao Haka.

     

    Nō reira, ka tika, me mihi atu ki a kōrua i w’ai wā. Tuarua anō ‘oki, tēnā, whakamārama mai ko wai kōrua, nō ‘ea kōrua?

    We are privileged to be gathered here today to discuss this taonga we call Te Ao Haka.

     

     

     

    So, it is only appropriate that I acknowledge you both for sharing your time. Secondly, can you both please introduce yourselves and where you are from?

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    I te taha o tōku māmā, he Tūhoe ia. Engari ko tōku hononga ki tēnei, ki a Te Whakatōhea ko tōku pāpā. Ā, pakeke ake au i konei, i Ōpōtiki nei. Kuraina hoki au i konei i Te Kura ō Waioeka.

     

    I te tau 96. Ka hūnuku atu ki Te Kura Kaupapa Motuhake o Tāwhiuau. Nā wai, nā wai, ka hoki pēnei mai ki konei, ki a Kāreti i Ōpōtiki. Ana, I ia hoki o wēnei kura.

     

    Kua hoki atu au ki wērā kura, kura māhita ai. I tēnei wā kei te Kāreti o Ōpōtiki ahau e kura māhita ana i tēnei wā. 

     

    Ā, he āhua pēnei te mea nei, te whakahoki atu.

    Nā runga anō i tā rātou whakatō mai i te mātauranga Māori nei ki roto ki ahau.

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    On my mothers’ side, she is Tūhoe. However, my connection to Te Whakatōhea is my father. I also grow up here in Ōpōtiki. I was schooled here, at Te Kura o Waioeka.

     

     

    In 1996, I moved to Te Kura Kaupapa Motuhake o Tāwhiuau. Then after some time I returned here, to Ōpōtiki college. And at each of these kura.

     

    I’ve returned to these kura, to teach. I am currently a teacher at Ōpōtiki College.

     

     

    I see this as a sort of reciprocation. Because of the Māori knowledge they instilled in me.

    Nō reira, he āhua pēnei te mea nei te whakahoki atu, i te aroha pea, te kupu pea, ki roto ki wērā kura ōku. Engari ko ōku waewae, ka tū ki te marae o Ōpeke, ā mate noa atu. Nō reira, ko au tērā.

     

    Ko tōku ingoa ko Te Mihingamaru. Engari karekau ko tērā ko taku ingoa i taku whānautanga mai. Koirā te ingoa i tapaina mai - nā tōku karanga tuatahi anō tērā ingoa i tapaina mai hei ingoa mōku. Ko Te Mihingamaru, “The Honour of Maru”. Ko tōku ingoa ko Maru, ā, ki ngā tamariki o tēnei takiwā ko Kōhine.

    So, I see this as giving back, it may be through aroha, it may be through words in those schools of mine. However, my bones are from Ōpeke marae. And that’s me.

     

     

    My name is Te Mihingamaru. Although that wasn’t my name when I was born. That was the name given to me. My relation gave that as a name for me. Te Mihingamaru, “The Honour of Maru”. My name is Maru, but the kids around call me Kōhine.

    Tēnā rawa atu koe e Maru. Anā, ka tae atu tātou ki a koe e te tuahine. Tēnā, whakamōhio mai.

    Thank you, Maru. Now to you, sis. Please introduce yourself.

    Waimarie Koopu:

    Ko aku tātai whakapapa, he mea heke i a Te Whakatōhea, Te Whānau-a-Apanui, i a Ngāti Awa.

     

    I tipu ake au i konei, i Ōpōtiki, pērā i a Maru, ā i kuraina i Te Kura o Waioeka, i Te Kāreti o Ōpōtiki hoki. Ā, ko au tētahi o ngā kaiako e kawe ana i tēnei kaupapa Te Ao Haka i roto i ngā kura.

     

    Waimarie ahau i whai wā ki te haere mai ki te kōrero i te rā nei.

    Waimarie Koopu:

    My whakapapa descends from Te Whakatōhea, Te Whānau-a-Apanui and Ngāti Awa.

     

    Like Maru, I grew up here in Ōpōtiki and I was schooled at Te Kura o Waioeka and Ōpōtiki College. I am one of the teachers delivering this kaupapa, Te Ao Haka, in the schools.

     

     

    It’s my privilege to be here to talk to you today.

    Rawe. Rawe katoa ērā tātai honongā ā kōrua.

     

    Kia mōhio mai ēnei o ngā ākonga o Te Ao Haka ko wai ēnei iho pūmanawa e kōrero ake nei. Nō reira, tēnā, ka kaurukutia tātou ki tēnei kaupapa o Te Ao Haka.

     

    Ka ruku tōtika ki te kaupapa kōrero. Āna, ka hoki kōmuri ana ngā whakairo. Ōu maharatanga, wheako tuatahi rānei o roto I a Te Ao Haka.

    Awesome. It’s great to hear both of your genealogical links.

     

    It’s important for the students of Te Ao Haka to know who these role models are. Ok, let’s get straight into this kaupapa of Te Ao Haka.

     

    We’re just gonna dive straight into it. Let’s take a trip down memory lane. Your earliest memories, and your earliest experiences of Te Ao Haka.

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    He kōrero tuatahi pea mō Te Kōhanga Reo. Ko Te Puna o te Aroha te ingoa o tō mātou kōhanga reo i Waioeka. Koinā māua tahi nei, koinā tā māua kōhanga reo tuatahi nei.

     

    Ko ngā kaiako ko ngā mea i tū ki te haka i roto o Waioeka Māori Youth Club. I ngā tau, i a rātou mā, te wā i a Ngākohu Pera, ko ia te rangatira nō tēnei iwi.

     

    Nāna hoki i ārahi i a rātou i wērā tāima. Nō reira ko wā mātou kaiako ko Te Okeroa Huriwaka. Ko ia anō tētahi i tū ki te Waioeka Māori Youth Club. Ā, ko Mary P Mōrunga, ko Pāpā Te Rua, rātou katoa i tū ki roto i ngā mahi o te kapa haka i wērā tāima.

     

    Nō reira ko rātou wā mātou kaiako i te kōhanga reo. Ko te mahi ngā waiata, te waiata i ngā waiata. 

     

    Ā, ka hūnuku atu ki te kura, ka piki atu i te hiwi. Ko Te Kura o Waioeka kei runga tonu i tētahi hiwi. Te kura kei runga I te puke. Kōira. 

     

    Ko te riu, ko te kotahi miriona tāra riu, nē. Te Riu o Waioeka.

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    I should maybe start with Te Kōhanga Reo. Te Puna o te Aroha is our Kōhanga reo in Waioeka. That’s where we both went. That was our first kōhanga.

     

    Our teachers did haka for Waioeka Māori Youth Club. Back in the days, in their time, the time of Ngākohu Pera, the leader of the tribe.

     

    They led them in those times. Our teachers were the likes of Te Okeroa Huriwaka. She was another who stood for Waioeka Māori Youth Club. Along with Mary P Mōrunga and Pāpā Te Rua, they all did kapa haka in their time.

     

     

    They were all our teachers at kōhanga reo. We learnt by singing, singing the songs.

     

    Then when we went to school, we climbed the hill. Te Kura o Waioeka is on a hill. The school on top of the hill. That’s it.

     

     

    The valley is a 1-million-dollar valley, isn’t it. The Waioeka Valley.

    Āe tika rā

    You bet.

    I reira hoki, ka tīmata ai. Engari i tēnā tāima kātahi anō tā mātou kura o Waioeka ka huri hei kura kaupapa Māori. Ko Waioeka School. Ā te tau 96, ka huri hei kura kaupapa Māori. Nō reira, i tērā tāima he whakamāori noa iho i ngā nursery rhymes.

     

    “Hei tiratira te kōti me te whira” Wērā, koirā wā mātou waiata. Engari hoki rā ko te Delamere Cup. Ko te Delamere Cup te whakataetae nui rawa atu o tēnei rohe.

     

    He whakatōtō mai i ngā kura o ngā iwi o tēnei takiwā a Te Whānau a Apanui. Nō reira ko Te Whānau-a-Apanui ka mauria mai i tā rātou-tanga ki runga i te papa tūwaewae o te Delamere Cup.

    Ngāi Tai hoki, he mau mai i tā rātou-tanga ki runga i te papa tūwaewae o te Delamere Cup. Mātou hoki o konei, o Te Whakatōhea. Pēnei ngā mea, te kura o konei ko Hato Hōhepa.

     

    Tō rātou Katorikatanga, mau mai ki runga i te atamira. Mātou o Waioeka, tā mātou Ngāti Iratanga. Aha atu, aha atu. Ngā kura katoa o tēnei wāhi. Ka mutu atu ki roto o Tūhoe: Te Waimana Kaaku me Matahī. Ka mau mai tā rātou Tūhoetanga ki runga i te papa tūwaewae.

     

    Me whā tau pea koe tō pakeke. Rima tau me tū atu koe ki te haka i te haka o te Delamere Cup. 

     

    Nō reira, i tīmata rā wā mātou haka, i runga i te waiata.

    Tuatahi rā i te kōhanga reo. Kātahi ka nuku atu ki te Delamere Cup. Me te ātaahua hoki o ngā mea o te Delamere Cup. Te wairua o te Delamere Cup.

     

    He āhua pēnei. Kei te moe tō tāne. Easy, Calm, Rough. You know. Koirā - koirā te āhua o te Delamere Cup.

     

    Mēnā ka hoki whakaaro atu au ki tētahi o wā mātou tūnga. Ko tā mātou haka i titoa e Te Roehe. Ko Te Roehe, he koroua nō Waioeka Māori Youth Club hoki tēnā.

     

    E kōrero ana he whakatūpato ki te iwi Māori: “Kāti te kai hikareti, ka mate noa iho koe i te kai hikareti”.

     

    Arā, kei te pai noa iho. Kei te tū ko ngā mea tāne, he tāne ahau i tērā wā.

    It also started there. At that time our school, Waioeka, had only just become a kura kaupapa Māori. It was Waioeka School. In 1996 it became a kura kaupapa Māori. At that time all we did was translate nursery rhymes.

     

    Hey diddle diddle, the cat and the fiddle” those were our sorts of songs. But there was also the Delamere Cup. The Delamere Cup was the biggest competition around these ways.

     

    It brought together all the schools in the district. And so Te Whānau-a-Apanui would bring their style to the stage at the Delamere Cup.

    Ngāi Tai as well, they would bring their uniqueness to the Delamere Cup stage. And us as well, of Te Whakatōhea. Like one of the schools from around here, St Joseph’s.

     

    They brought their catholic element to the stage. For Waioeka, we brought our Ngāti Iratanga. And so on and so forth. All the schools from around here. And it finished in Tūhoe, Te Waimana Kaaku and Matahī. They brought their Tūhoetanga to the stage.

     

     

     

    You have to be 4 years old. If you’re 5, you have to do the Delamere Cup haka. 

     

    So, our haka started with waiata. Firstly, at kōhanga reo. Then you move on to the Delamere Cup. So much beauty on show at the Delamere Cup. The vibe of the Delamere Cup.

     

     

    It’s a bit like this. Your man is asleep. Easy, Calm, Rough. You know – that’s what the Delamere Cup is like.

     

    I remember one of our stands. Our haka was composed by Te Roehe. Te Roehe was a koroua, also from Waioeka Māori Youth Club.

     

    It spoke about warning Māori: “Kāti te kai hikareti, ka mate noa iho koe i te kai hikareti”.

     

    See, all good. All the men stood; I was a man back then.

     

    Āe rawe.

    Awesome.

    Ka mau tonu i ngā piupiu, tokorua o rāua. He brother, he sister -  Mary P Mōrunga. Kātahi anō nei au ka kōrero paku atu mōna i mua rā. Ko rāua tahi ka tahuri mai ki te backstage.

    I mua tonu i tā tātou whakaeke mai i te atamira.

     

    Āna, ka mauria mai ngā pākete hikareti. Arā, ka titi ake ki roto i ngā piupiu a ngā mea tāne. Ka mea atu rātou, “Ka tae atu koe ki tēnei wāhanga, tīkina atu tō pākete hikareti, whiuahia atu ki te papa, ana, ka takatakahia haere koe”.

     

    “Kaipaipa, kaikino, ka mate, ka hinga. Hei konā rā Māori mā”. Koina. Ērā tokorua nei, kaha tonu, he tereina kaha tonu ki te kai wā rāua pāipa. Te hia pai hoki, nē?

    They still wore piupiu, there were two of them. A brother and a sister – Mary P Mōrunga. I just spoke a little bit about her beforehand. They both looked backstage. Just before we got up onto the stage.

     

    They brought some cigarette packets. They stuffed them in the men’s piupiu. Then told us “When you get to this part, pull out the cigarette packets and throw them on the floor, then stomp on them”.

     

    “Smoking, not good, you will pass, you will die, farewell”. And that’s it. And those two, they were the worst, they smoked like a train. The nerve aye?

    Kātahi rā. Engari, āhuatanga nō tua whakarere pea.

    Good grief. But those were the old days.

    Āe. And you know what, he āhuatanga whakamīharo.

    Agreed, and you know what, it was awesome.

    Āe tēnā koe

    I agree.

    Kāre e tū atu, ki te hoki mahara pērā atu.

    Can’t beat those memories.

    Nō reira koirā anō hoki te orohokōhanga o tō Ao Haka?

    So that was the beginning of your Ao Haka?

    Tōku Ao Haka.

    My Ao Haka.

    Āe

    Yes

    He tāne hoki. 

    And you were a man.

    Rawe. 

    Awesome.  

    Selfish rawa atu au, kātahi hoki te matapiko.

    I’m very selfish.

    Tahi rā, no reira, he mea hihiri anō pērā i a Maru? Ō takahanga i roto i Te Ao Haka, e Waimarie?

    Good grief, so do you have any spirited stories like Maru? Your footsteps in Te Ao Haka, Waimarie?

    I tipu ake au ki waenganui i te kapa o Ōpōtiki mai i Tawhiti. Rua pakeke au i te wā i tīmata te kapa.

    Nō reira i kawe taku māmā i a mātou ko aku tēina, aku tungāne ki ngā whakaharatau. Whā pakeke pea taku tau tae tuatahi ki Te Matatini. 1998 ki Pōneke, anā, hīkaka ana mātou ngā tamariki, te whānau i tū mai.

     

    I whakaeke te rōpū ki runga i te atamira.  Anā ko mātou tēnā i tū ki te tuku haka tautoko. Arā ko Maruhia te haka i tāua wā.

     

    Āe, i tū mai wāku whanaungā a Jamie Winiata mā, Renee Mītai, Bonnie Tāia mā. E hakahaka ana me wā mātou pakeke e kōrerohia e Maru.

     

    Anā ko au tēnā, whā pakeke tiro pēnā ana ki a rātou, e kata ana ki a rātou e haka ana. Engari he rawe, koirā taku mea tuatahi ki waenganui i te whānau.

     

    Engari he rawe te hoki atu ki aua kōrero a Maru, arā, i te Taramea. Anā, huakina, tātou katoa e whakariterite ana ki runga i te atamira. Whā, rima pakeke mātou i muri mai i ngā ārai.

     

    Ngā ārai whero, rongonui wēnei ārai. Anā, ka huakina mai ngā ārai, anā ko ngā tamariki o Waioeka i tērā wā e pēnei ana ki wā rātou mātua. Engari ko au tēnā “E rite ana”. Anā, ko au tēnā e kaha whai i ngā āhuatanga o taku kapa ō Ōpōtiki Mai Tawhiti, o taku māmā hoki.

     

    Āe, i te kawe taku māmā i a mātou ki ngā whakaharatau.

    Ko te nuinga o aku whanaunga e omaoma haere i roto i ngā rārangi. Engari ko au tēnā, he noho noa ki te mātaki, he noho noa ki te tiaki i wāku teina, wāku tungāne.

     

    Engari he pai noa ki ahau te noho ki te mātaki. I te wā e wātea mai a Mum ki te haramai ki te whāngai i wāna tamariki. Ko au tēnā haere ki te whakakī i tāna tūranga kaitātaki.

     

    Koirā tāku, he rawe - waimarie ahau i tāku tipuranga i roto i taku kapa o Ōpōtiki Mai Tawhiti. Rawe.

    I grew up amongst the kapa of Ōpōtiki mai i Tawhiti. I was two when the group was established.

    Our mum took my siblings and I to all the practices. I was around four years old when I went to my first Matatini. 1998 in Pōneke, all us kids were excited to watch the whanau who were standing. 

     

     

    The group got up on stage. When they finished, that was us, we stood up to do a haka tautoko. Maruhia was the haka back then.

     

    That’s right, all our relations stood too, Jamie Winiata, Renee Mītai, Bonnie Tāia and them. All doing the haka alongside the elders that Maru mentioned beforehand.

     

    That was also me, four years old looking up at them, having a giggle. But it was awesome, my first experience of haka amongst my whanau.

     

    It is also cool to look back on those memories that Maru mentioned, of the Delamere Cup. The curtains would open, all of us would be getting ready on stage. We were only four or five and standing behind the curtains.

     

    The red curtains were well-known. When the curtains would open, all the kids from Waioeka acted similarly to their parents. But not me, “I was ready”. I would stick to what had been taught at Ōpōtiki Mai Tawhiti and from my mum.

     

    Yes, our mum took us to the practices. Most of my relations were running through the rows. But not me, I would just sit and watch, while looking after my siblings.

     

     

    But I didn’t mind just watching. When Mum was free she would come and feed the kids. Then I would get up and fill in for her as leader.

     

    That was my role, I loved it – I was lucky with my upbringing in Ōpōtiki Mai Tawhiti, it was awesome.

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    He pērā anō i ngā kōrero. Ko te kaiako ko Mrs. Hopa.

    Ko Mrs. Hopa, koia hoki te tumuaki. Ko te mea o Mrs. Hopa, he Kuki Airani, nē?

     

    Engari kei te mōhio te kōrero i te reo Māori.  Nō reira koinā ia, ka tū hei tumuaki mō te kura kaupapa.  Ko Mrs. Hopa. He taumata tā Mrs. Hopa.  Ko ia te kaiako o ngā pīpī paopao, koirā ngā ingoa. Ko Ngā Pīpī Paopao.

     

    Ko tana taumata ki te whakaeke ngā tamariki kia harikoa, kia māmā.

     

    Anā ka whakaeke atu rātou, mātou ki te atamira.

    Mea atu rā ia, “Ki te tuwhera ngā ārai, ka kite atu koe i ō mātua, i tō whānau e noho mai nā i te whakaminengā, pōhiri atu”.

     

     

    Koirā te pai, koirā te pai o te wahine ra. Engari, ka eke atu koe ki ngā taumata o te takawaenga. Especially o te senior o ngā mea pakeke.

     

    Ka āhua rerekē, kei te āhua rerekē noa iho, nē? Nō reira, ka tahuri atu ki te rōpū takawaengā. Ngā Pīpi Paopao, ka hūnuku atu koe, ka piki atu. Ko te whanaketanga i reira, ka āhua tūturu nei te tū.

     

    Me ngā āhuatanga o Waioeka tonu. Ka tīmata i te rōpū takawaenga i mua noa atu i tō piki ake ki ngā tau kura 7, tau kura 8, nē?

     

    Te Kura o Waioeka ka mutu i te tau kura 8. Kei reira, kei tērā te tino ito o tēnei mea te tūturutanga o te tū o tērā takiwā paku noa iho nei, a Waioeka. 

    Ka tīmata i reira. Engari, ka āhua whāwhā noa iho nei, ka āhua rāweke noa iho i te takawaenga.

     

    Mā ngā takawaenga tērā wāhanga. Ko ngā kaiako i tērā wā ko Sarah Kurei. He taniwha tērā wahine. Kaiwhakamataku hoki te tamariki.

     

    Nō reira kia areare taringa atu ki tērā wahine. Kāre he mea mōna te wepuwepu haere i a koe, nē. Me te mea hoki, koirā te rerekētanga o wērā tāima. 

     

    Ahakoa ko ngā 90s noa ihō tērā he pai tonu mā ō whāea me ō kōkara, me wō pāpara te wepu haere i ō tero.   

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    My memories are the same. Mrs. Hopa was our teacher.

    Mrs. Hopa was also the principal. Mrs. Hopa was Cook Island aye?

     

    Yes, but she knew how to speak Māori. That was enough, she became the principal at our kura kaupapa. Mrs. Hopa has standards. She looks after the pīpī paopao, that’s what they were called. The Pīpī Paopao.

     

    The standard she expects of the kids is for them to be happy and at ease.

     

    And then we would all get on stage.

    She would say to us “if the curtains open, you will be able to see your parents and your whanau sitting amongst the crowd, cheering for you all”.

     

    That’s what made her so good. And then you would move up another level to the intermediate section. Especially the senior level.

     

    It changes again, a different change aye. And so, we transition to the intermediate group. You move on from Pīpī Paopao, you go up a level. That’s where the development happens, where you reinforce the stance.

     

    And the uniqueness of Waioeka’s stand. It starts in the intermediate level before going up to year 7 and year 8 aye?

     

     

    At Te Kura o Waioeka you finish school at year 8. That’s where you really see the essence of an authentic stance at that small little township, Waioeka. 

    It starts there. But you only touch on it, you only get a feel of it at the intermediate level.

     

     

    That’s what happens at intermediate. Sarah Kurei was the teacher back then. She was a menace. She would scare the kids.

     

     

    You made sure to listen to her. It wouldn’t faze her to keep the kids in line aye. That’s another big difference from that era. 

     

     

    Even though it was only in the 90s it was acceptable for your aunties and uncles to tune you up. You know. 

    Āe, i tipu au i roto i tērā reanga. Nō reira, e mahara pai au ki tēnā āhuatanga.

    Yes. I grew up in that generation. So, I remember those days.

    Koinā hoki te āhua o te kapa haka. I tērā tāima, ahakoa kāre i tino kitea. Ko Te Roehe pea noa iho te mea. Ko ia te kaiwhakatangitangi i te rapirapi. Ā, kāre hoki he aha ki a Te Roehe.

     

     

    He koroua hoki tērā nō te wā kāinga. Ko ia te kaiwhakatangitangi i te kīta.

     

    Whakaeke haere ana te rōpū i runga i te atamira, ki te rongo wāna taringa kua papatahi te rōpū. Nā, ka whakakorengia te waiata, me tīmata anō. Koirā tōna āhua, i runga tonu i te papa tūwaewae.

     

    Koirā te āhua. Arā hoki tētahi, ko Nancy Peka. Ko Nancy Peka. Wahine, he taniwha anō o Te Ao Haka.

     

    Ko Waioeka Māori Youth Club tērā, ko Waioeka-nui-a-Kiwa hoki tērā kuia. Ā, ko ia ka whakahaere i tētahi o āna rōpū.

     

    Kei te kite atu taua kuia “Kei te ngaro haere wāku tamariki i wā rātou ā-ringā”. Ka puta atu te kuia rā ki mua tonu i te atamira. Anā, he tū ki mua i tana rōpū kia whai atu tana rōpū i a ia.

     

    Koirā te wairua o te Taramea, kua tīni katoa i wēnei rā. Kāre kite i tērā momo.

    That’s how kapa haka was. Back in those times, although wasn’t necessarily seen. Te Roehe was possibly the only one. He was the guitar player. And he wasn’t bothered by anything.

     

     

     

    He was an elder from home. He was the guitar player.

     

     

    When the group would get on stage, and if he heard that the group was flat. He would stop the song and start again. That’s what he was like, even on stage, that’s what it was like.

     

     

    That’s how it was. There was another, Nancy Peka. Nancy Peka was a woman, and a menace of Te Ao Haka.

     

    He was also of Waioeka Māori Youth Club, and a nan of Waioeka-nui-a-Kiwa. She tutors one of her groups.

     

    She would notice “my kids are getting the actions wrong”. She would then go out on stage. Stand in front of the group and do the actions for them to follow.

     

    That’s how Delamere was it has changed drastically since then. You don’t see that nowadays.

    He aha ai?

    Why?

    He aha pea? Nā runga pea i te whanaketanga o ngā ture, kua āhua pēnei te iwi Māori ki ngā ture, nē.

     

    Waimarie:

    Whaiwhai ana i te whakataetae, koirā pea.

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    I te whakataetae. Kāre kite tērā āhuatanga i ēnei rā. E kore rawa, e kore rawa i ēnei rā. 

     

    Nā te mea, ko te mate noa iho ka takahia ko ngā tamariki.

    I’m not sure? Maybe because of how the rules have developed over the years, Māori have really become sticklers for the rules.

     

    Waimarie:

    Perhaps turning more towards the aspect of competition.

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    At competitions. You don’t see that nowadays. We wouldn’t dare, we wouldn’t dare especially these days. 

     

    Because it comes at the expense of the kids.

    Mōhio pai au. Nō reira, rawe katoa ki te rongo i tēnei kaupapa mīharo e kīa nei ko te Delamere Cup. Me te mea nei kāre au mō te paku mōhio, engari ka kite, ka rongo anō hoki i te tamaiti e tupu kaha i roto i tō rātou ako ahurea.

    I know this. So, it is awesome to hear about this kaupapa called the Delamere Cup. And although I don’t know much about this kaupapa, I can see and hear that the children really develop amongst this learning culture.

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    Māna pea e whakamōhio atu te take i tū ai te Delamere Cup.

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    She/he will talk more about why the Delamere Cup was started.

    Tēnā, wakamōhio mai.

    Yes please, talk to me about it.

    Waimarie:

    Ko te Delamere Cup tētahi o ngā whakataetae i tīmata i te tau tahi.

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    50, 60, nē?

     

    Waimarie:

    60, 50. Tata ki te 60 tau pea tēnei whakataetae. I tīmata wā mātou kuia, koroua o konei, o Te Whānau-a-Apanui hoki.

     

    I te ngarohanga o te reo Māori, anā, e hiahia kia whakatō i ēnei āhuatanga o Te Ao haka ki waenganui i tēnei takiwā.

     

    3, 4 pea ngā kura i tū i te tau tuatahi. Auē, neke atu, tata ki te 12 pea ngā Kura ināianei. Āe kei te reanga pēpi, takawaenga, ā, Kapu Taramea hoki.

     

    He rawe te kite kikī katoa te hōro i te tangata.

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    I wērā tāima.

     

    Waimarie:

    Āe

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    Pango katoa te hōro i te tangata.

     

    Waimarie:

    I tū te Taramea ki konei hoki.

    Waimarie:

    The Delamere Cup is a competition that starts at year 1.

     

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    50, 60 aye?

     

    Waimarie:

    60, 50. This competition has been around for about 60 years. Our elders of here and Te Whānau-a-Apanui started it.

     

    As the Māori language declined, they wanted to have something that would embed it into Te Ao Haka throughout this region.

     

    Around 3 or 4 schools stood in the first year. Now though, there are about 12, maybe more, schools entering. Yeah, at all levels, the babies, the intermediate and the Delamere Cup.

     

    It’s awesome to see the hall full with people.

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    In those days.

     

    Waimarie:

    Yeah.

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    The hall got full with people.

     

    Waimarie:

    The Delamere was hosted here too.

    Oh nē?

    Really?

    Wamarie:

    Ki roto nei.

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    Āe. Tēnei atamira tonu.

    Waimarie:

    In here.

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    Yea. On this exact stage.

    A ta’i rā. Nō reira, he momo w’akaw’anaketanga e kīa nei ka eke ai te tamaiti ki roto i te Kapu Delamere. W’ai muri i te Delamere, ka aha ai te tauira e ako ana i Te Ao Haka?

     

     

    Ka uru atu ki roto i tētahi atu kapa matua? Ka aha rānei?

    Amazing. So, it can kind of be seen as a bit of an achievement, when your child makes it to the Delamere Cup. What do the students do, in regard to upskilling in Te Ao Haka, after Delamere?

     

    Do they trial for a main group? Or something else?

    Waimarie:

    Arā ko māua, i tū māua mō te kapa o Kura ki Uta, ā, tae ki Te Kāreti o Ōpōtiki. Te nuinga o mātou i roto i ngā kapa o Ōpōtiki mai Tawhiti, Waioeka.

     

    I tū mō te kapa ko - Ko wai ngā…? Ā, ko Paula me Hemi Perihi i tērā.

     

    Mihingaamaru:

    Āe, ngā Kaiako.

     

    Waimarie:

    Anā, i uru mai hoki a Anamika, me Thomas. Kei reira tonu a Ana i ētahi wā. Engari kua whai wāhi a Pao, a Ria hoki. Waimarie wā mātou rangatahi i wā rātou kaiako.

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    Me te mea hoki ko wērā kaiako e kōrerohia nei e tēnei, 

    a Paula rāua ko Hēmi, he Waioeka-nui-a-Kiwa, he Ōpōtiki mai Tawhiti rāua nē.

     

    Ko wai atu anō? Ko Anamika rāua ko Thomas kei te mōhio, he Ōpōtiki mai Tawhiti. Ināianei, he Te-Whānau-a Apanui a Anamika.

    Arā ko Pāora rāua ko Ria, he Waioeka.

     

    Waimarie:

    Well, you see us, we stood for Kura ki Uta, and then Ōpōtiki College. Most of us were in Ōpōtiki mai Tawhiti and Waioeka.

     

     

    We stood with - Who was? It was Paula and Hēmi Pērihi in those days.

     

    Mihingaamaru:

    Yeah, the tutors.

     

     

    Waimarie:

    And then Anamika and Thomas joined. Ana is still there sometimes. Pao and Ria have also joined in the tutoring ranks. Our younger ones are fortunate to have such a good calibre of tutors.

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    And also, those tutors that this one is referring to, Paula and Hēmi, they are from Waioeka-nui-a-Kiwa and Ōpōtiki mai Tawhiti aye.

     

    Who else? You know Anamika and Thomas are from Ōpōtiki mai Tawhiti. Anamika is Te Whānau-a-Apanui now.

     

     

    Pāora and Ria are from Waioeka.

    Rawe katoa. Nō reira, i ā kōrua takahanga i roto i Te Ao Haka. Ka oti a kōrua i roto i tēnei kaupapa e kīa nei ko te Delamere Cup. Anā, ka tae te wā. Kei te rite tonu ahau kia uru atu ki roto i tētahi kapa. Tēnā kōrero mai mō tō whēako tuatahi i roto i te rōpū pakeke.

    All of that is great. So, in all your stages of Te Ao Haka. You two finish up with the Delamere Cup. And time is up. I was ready to trial for a kapa. Talk to me about your first experience in a senior group.

    Waimarie:

    Me pono aku kōrero. I taku tau whakamutunga i Te Kāreti o Ōpōtiki. Mea atu au ki a Uncle Dudu “Kāre au mō te uru mai ki tō kapa. Kei te huri te kei o tōku waka ki Te Whānau-a-Apanui” engari i mea mai taku māmā me taku pāpā, “E girl, kāo - me noho mai koe ki konei”. Nā te mea, nā rāua ēnei āhuatanga i whakatō ki roto i a mātou.

     

    Ka tika, me whai i te huarahi, arā, ki roto o Ōpōtiki mai Tawhiti.  I tū au mō tērā o ngā kapa 4, 3 pea ngā tau engari i huri te kei o taku waka ki tērā o taku kapa o Waioeka. 

    Waimarie:

    I’ll be honest. In my final year at Ōpōtiki College. I told Uncle Dudu “I’m not going to join your team. I'm going to go to Te Whānau-a-Apanui” but my parents said, “no you won't girl – you have to stay here”. Because they set the foundation in us.

     

     

     

    It is only right to follow that path into Ōpōtiki mai Tawhiti. I stood for that kapa for about 3-4 years and then I turned to the kapa haka of Waioeka.

    Āe rawe

    Awesome.

    Kei reira au ināianei.

    I am there now.

    Ka pai. Me koe ‘oki e Maru?

    Great. And you as well Maru?

    Āe, ka tika hoki.

    Of course.

    Ko ēnei tokorua, he mataora anō hoki mō Waioeka i tēnei wā. Nō reira, tēnā, kōrero mai mō ngā āhuatanga e pūmau ai e te w’ānau o Waioeka. He aha ngā tikanga nō roto hoki i Te Ao Haka?

     

    Tēnā pea ko te taha o te wiri, ko te taha o te takahi. He aha ngā tū ā’uatanga?

    These two represent Waioeka today. Talk to me a bit more about what brings the Waioeka whanau together. What are the intricacies in regard to Te Ao Haka.

     

     

    It might be the wiri or the takahi. What are those intricacies?

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    Tuatahi rā pea, kia hoki pea atu ki te hāhi Ringatū. Kei reira. Ka tīmata hoki i reira, nē? Me kore tātou e wareware. Ki te tuku whakapono atu, ki te tuku atu i ngā whakamoemiti ki tō tātou Atua.

     

    Me tīmata i reira.  Ki te kore koe e mōhio ki tō Atua, te Atua i whai wāhi ai ki roto i tō iwi, kei te kuhu noa iho mai koe ki te aha? Koirā noa iho wāku whakaaro. Engari, kia tūtaki atu rā ko tō wairua ki te wairua o te Atua, arā, ka pai pea te haere i roto i ngā mahi o te kapa haka.

     

    Ka māmā, ka ngāwari ake te tīkina atu i ngā tikanga o tō iwi tonu, tō hapū tonu. Ki reira tīmata ai. Koirā noa iho mōku. Engari te taha ki ngā mea o te wiri e kōrerohia nei koe, nē?

     

    Ko tēnei mea te wiri ngā kōrero nō konei, e pā ana ki te wiri. Ā, he āhua whānui pea te tirohanga o te wiri, o tēnei iwi, i te āhua rangirua katoa. Koirā tāku e tino.

     

    Ka tīmatahia ake tētahi wiri i te tāima o Waioeka Māori Youth Club. Ka heke mai ko Nui-a-Kiwa, nē?

     

    Ka whakamoeahia tērā rōpū.  Ka āhua pōraruraru haere pea, rangirua haere, me aha tātou? Engari ko te tikanga o te wiri. 

     

    Kia wiri tonu i wō ringa, te katoa o tō ringa, me wiri te katoa. Arā me āhua kapu hoki. He kapu, pēnā i a koe e horoi ana i tō kanohi. Koirā ngā kōrero: “Me kapu o ringa pēnā I a koe e horoi ana I to kanohi”.

     

    Koirā, koirā te wiri.  Kāre hoki te tino mōhio mēnā nō konei tērā wiri. Engari kei te mōhio nō te tāima o Waioeka, te rōpū haka o Waioeka. Kāre au i te tino mōhio mehemea nō Whakatōhea tērā.

     

    Ko tō wiri ko te ringa katoa.  Kāre tino whānui hoki, rātou torotoro haere i ngā ringa. Nō reira, ka noho pēnei mai.  Arā, e mea atu ana rātou, “Ānei tō pouaka, kaua koe e kuhu atu ki te pouaka a tētahi atu.”

     

    Anā, pēnei tō pane kākā e mau nei koe, tō koti. Tētahi tāera o te kuia nei, a Hēni. Ka whakamaua te wahine i tētahi pane kākā. Ki reira, ka tuwhera atu i konei.  Ki reira noa iho, koinā tō pouaka.

     

    Kaua e hūnuku, e haere, e whāwhā rāweke haere te pouaka a tētahi atu.

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    First of all, let's talk about the Ringatū faith. There. It also started there aye? We should never forget to give praise and thanks to our God.

     

     

    It should start there. If you don’t know who your God is, or the God that your iwi prays to, what are you doing? That’s what I think. The human spirit must connect with the spirit of God so that all the work at kapa haka may flow seamlessly.

     

     

    It’s much easier for all the tikanga to fall in place. Tikanga of the iwi and the hapū. It all starts there. That’s all for me. In regard to the wiri that you were talking about though.

     

    The background to the wiri around these ways. This iwi has a rather broad outlook towards the wiri, it can kind of be confusing. That’s what I think.

     

    There was a wiri that started in the days of Waioeka Māori Youth Club. It came from Nui-a-Kiwa aye?

     

    That group was disestablished. After that there was a lot of uncertainty as to what should happen next. 

     

    But in terms of the wiri. The hand should always wiri, the whole hand, it should be constant. It should also hold the shape of a cup. A cup as if you are washing your face. That’s what we were told: “you cup your hands the same way you wash your face”.

     

    That’s the wiri. Not really sure whether that originated from here though. But I do know that it's been like that since the Waioeka days. Not quite sure whether that was from Whakatōhea.

     

     

    The whole hand should wiri. It shouldn’t be too extravagant and go all over the place. It should stay here. They reckon “this is your box, stay in your own box.”

     

     

    It is also like the jacket you wear. That’s similar to the style of the kuia, of Hēni. A woman puts on her jacket. There and it opens over here. That’s it, that’s your box.

     

    Don’t stray, don’t move, don’t meddle with someone else’s box.

     

    Rawe. Nō reira, he akoranga anō hoki tēnā?

    Awesome, so that is another type of learning?

    Āe.

    Yes.

    He akoranga anō hoki tāu, e Waimarie? Nō roto hoki o tēnei te mahi haka, o wētehi āhuatanga o te takahi, o te wiri. Aha atu, aha rānei e ako nei e koe. 

    Do you have any other learnings Waimarie? In the realm of haka, maybe something to do with the takahi or the wiri. Or anything else that you may have learnt. 

    Waimarie:

    Mai i te tīmatanga o te kapa o Ōpōtiki mai Tawhiti ā, ka kaha kite i tēnei momo tū ki waenganui, ki roto i ngā rārangi o ngā wāhine.

    Anā, e whai ana i taua kōrero a tā tātou tipuna kuia a Muriwai, “Kia whakatāne au i ahau.” Inā kite koe i te nuing o ngā wāhine, he pērā hoki tā rātou tū.

     

    E kawe ana i tērā o ngā āhuatanga o tā tātou tipuna kuia, ā, e wāwau ana. Rawe te kite. Ki au nei, ehara mātou i te iwi poi, ehara mātou i te iwi –

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    Kāre kau.

     

    Waimarie:

    He haka te mahi.  Inā kite i ngā wāhine, ko rātou tēnā. 

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    Pīti ake i ngā mea tāne.

     

    Waimarie:

    Koirā te kōrero, koirā hoki wāku tauira, “oh nah, whaea Wais, scary tāna”.

     

    I te wā tū ana atamira. Engari, ka kite i wāku aunties, auē. Kaha noa rātou, koirā taku. He rerekē te tū a ngā wāhine.

     

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    Kei roto pea i te toto tērā āhua, te toto a ngā wāhine o konei

    Te haka pēnei i te tāne. He mea nō mua rāno, nō taua kuia rā a Rāwinia Rangi.

     

    Ko ia anō te kaimea i te Delamere Cup. Ko ngā kōrero mō tēnā kuia. He tāne, he tū tāne taua kuia rā. Ka tahuri ki a Hēni Green. He tū tāne taua kuia rā.

     

    Kāre he mea ki a ia mō te poi, engari mō te haka. Koia te mea kaiwhakaako i ngā tāne ki te haka. Anā, kua tāheke, kei te kite tonu i roto i tēnei iwi ngā wāhine e tū tāne ana.

     

    Engari ko ngā mea tāne, kei te tū wāhine. 

    Waimarie:

    From the beginning of Ōpōtiki mai Tawhiti I would always see this particular stand amongst the rows of women. That follows the renowned korero of our kuia Muriwai “let me act like a man”. You’ll notice that most of the women stand like that.

     

     

    They carry that stand of our kuia, and it’s mean. Great to see. In my opinion we are not a poi iwi, we ain't.

     

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    Not at all.

     

    Waimarie:

    We haka. If you see the ladies, you’ll know. 

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    They would beat the men.

     

    Waimarie:

    That’s what is being said, that is also what my students think. “oh nah, whaea Wais, she’s scary”.

     

    When they are standing on stage. But when I see the aunties up there, I am amazed. They are unbelievable in my opinion. The women have a different stand.

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    I think it’s in the blood, the blood of the women doing the haka like the men. It’s been like that since way back, since that kuia, Rāwinia Rangi.

     

    She was also a big part of the Delamere Cup. There are heaps of stories about that kuia. She stood like a man. And there was also Hēni Green. She stood like a man too.

     

    She wasn’t really fussed about the poi, but the haka was another story. She tutored the men for the haka. And it has been handed down. You can see the women amongst the iwi standing like men.

     

    On the other hand, some of the men are quite feminine. 

    Tēra pea e hiahia ana, ānō nei. Ā, ki a mātou e rongo ana i ērā kōrero kua hora nei. Waimarie tonu mātou.

     

    Nō reira ko tāku nei e hiahia ana kia hoki atu ki te tau 98.

    I te wā i tae atu koe ki Pōneke ki roto i Te W’anganui-a-Tara. I reira ka tū a Te Matatini.  Anā, ka tū anō hoki a Ōpōtiki mai Tawhiti.

     

    I pēhea anō hoki ngā kare ā-roto āu ia ko i 4 tau noa iho te pakeke nē?

    E pēhea ngā kare ā-roto āu i tērā tau i te wā i kite i tō w’ānau i tū ki runga ki tērā o ngā atamira, me kī?

    I think that’s just how they are. When we hear that sort of korero going around. We know we are lucky.

     

    Let’s look back at 1998. When you went to Wellington. That’s where Te Matatini was. Ōpōtiki mai Tawhiti stood there.

     

     

     

    How did you feel back then, being only four years of age?

     

    And how did you feel when you saw your whanau on stage?

    Waimarie:

    Ko ngā kare ā-roto i puta, ko tāku ki te kite i a rātou, ko rātou i runga. Kāre au te tino aro ki te hunga pērā i a Te Waka Huia, Te Waihīrere.

     

    Ko taku māmā, ko wāku aunties.  Ko rātou ngā māngai, ōku māngai i taua wā tonu. Hīkaka katoa te ngākau, anā, i te kite i taua haka tautoko i tērā tau.

     

    I tae atu te katoa o te tāone, te katoa o te iwi. I reira wā mātou kuia, koroua anā ngā pēpi hoki. Ko te māmā o tēnei hoki i roto i taua rōpū, 98,

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    Kāre kau.

     

    Waimarie:

    ā, 96.

    Waimarie:

    My emotions overflowed when I saw them on stage. I wasn’t really fussed with the likes of Te Waka Huia and Te Waihīrere.

     

     

    My mum and my aunties. They were my heroes then. I was really eager to see the haka tautoko that year.

     

     

    The whole town was there, the whole iwi. All the kuia and koroua. And the babies. This one’s mum was also in that team, 98,

     

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    No.

     

    Waimarie:

    Oh, 96.

    Ka pai. Ko koe tērā i te tau 98. Ka tae atu koe ki tērā Matatini ki Rotorua, 96. Te wā tuatahi mō tō māmā.

    Yea. That was you in 98. You go to Matatini in Rotorua, 96. Your mum's first stand.

    Ā, kāre kau, kāre kau. Kāre mātou, tōku whānau ake, tokotoru noa iho. Tokorima o mātou, tokotoru o mātou he kaihaka.

     

    Engari, kāre tonu mātou, ahau, i tae atu ki wērā tūmomo whakataetae nui nei.

    Nope, don’t think so. Not us, our immediate family, only three of us. There are five of us, and three are kaihaka.

     

    But we didn’t, well I didn’t, really go to those types of big competitions.

    Nō reira, ko te tau 98 tērā ki Pōneke. Anā, ka hoki anō hoki aku mahara ki te wā i tū ai taua kapa. Ā, e ngākaunui ana ki a Ōpōtiki mai Tawhiti i taua tau.

     

    Āhea ka tū ai koe, kōrua hoki? Ā, ka tae atu koe ki roto i taua kapa?

    98 was in Wellington. I look back on those days when the kapa stood. I really enjoyed Ōpōtiki mai Tawhiti that year.

     

     

    When did you stand, both of you? When you arrived at that kapa?

    Waimarie:

    Ko taku tau tuatahi mō te kapa o Ōpōtiki mai Tāwhiti I te tau 2014, whai muri i taku tū mō te kapa o Kura ki Uta.

     

    I hūnuku au ki roto o Ahitereiria. Anā, i hoki mai. Ko tērā taku māmā e mea atu ana ki ahau, “Nō, me hoki mai, me tū koe mō tō kapa”.

     

    Rawe.  Rawe tērā tau. Koirā taku tau tuatahi i tū ki te taha o taku māmā, taku teina. Ko te hiahia kia tū te katoa o tā mātou whānau.

     

    Engari, tatari tonu ana kia piki tērā pakeke, kia piki taku tungāne ki tērā o ngā pakeke, kia pai tāna haere mai ki te tū ki te taha o wāna tino sisters.

     

    Āe. Engari 2014, koirā taku tau tuatahi mō te kapa.

    Waimarie:

    My first stand for Ōpōtiki mai Tāwhiti was in 2014 after I stood for Kura ki Uta at school.

     

    I moved to Australia. And then returned. My mum said to me “no, you need to return and stand for your kapa”.

     

     

    Awesome. That year was good. That was the first time I stood with my mum and younger sister. My dream is to stand with my whole whanau.

     

    But I have to wait for the age limit to increase, for my brother to reach that age, so that he can stand with his favourite sisters.

     

     

    Yes. But 2014, that was my first stand for the kapa.

    Ko tō tau tuatahi, e Maru?

    Your first year Maru?

    Kei te pīrangi au ki te tino ruku ki tēnei. Ki tēnei kōrero.

    I really want to delve into this topic.

    Rukuhia.

    Delve.

    Tēnei tangata, ko Eric Kurei tōna ingoa. Ko ia hoki te mea whakaako i a mātou. Kātahi anō hoki te taniwha, ko tēnā! Tino tangata, taikaha tonu nei, nē. Te rahinga o mātou o roto o Te Kura ō Waioeka, nāna anō i poipoi ki roto i wēnei mahi.

     

    Nō reira, especially ngā mea tāne. Ko ngā mea tāne, ka tino whakamihi atu ki te pāpā nei. He takatāpui hoki te tangata nei.

     

    Tōna matehanga. Ka mate atu te pāpā nei, ā, i tōna uhunga, i te marae o Ōpeke. Ko te tekau mā rua o te hāhi Ringatū hoki i tērā tāima. I whakahaerehia ake i runga i te marae.

     

    Anā, i tōna uhunga, ka pupū ake te whakaaro nā te mea he moemoeā hoki nō Eric kia tū anō te rōpū o Waioeka. Engari, ko te katinga o wāna whatu, anā ko te māmā o tēnei, me wētehi atu o ngā kōkara.

     

    Kei te rapu haere ngā ingoa. Anei he ingoa kia uru atu kia tū ai tētahi rōpū. I tērā tāima, i tōna tangihanga tonu tēnei. I tērā tāima, ā, he rōpū whakangāhau. Kāre kau he ingoa. Te parakatihi tuatahi, te whakaharatau tuatahi, i roto tonu i te wharekai.

     

    Tō mātou pāpā, e takato tīraha ana i roto i te whare mate. Ko te tekau mā rua ngā mahi o te karakia kei roto o Irapuaia. 

     

    Mātou, neke atu i te 90 tonu pea o mātou i runga, e whakaharatau ana. Ā, ka tīmata i reira. Kāre kau he ingoa i tērā wā. Ko te ingoa ko Te Rōpū Hātākēhi o Ngāti Ira. Koirā te ingoa.

     

    Anā, ka mea atu tētahi o wā mātou karanga tuarua.

    Ka mea ki te whaea o tēnei me wērā. “Rōpū whakangāhau, hei aha noa atu te rōpū whakangāhau - me rōpū whakataetae”.

     

    Ka āhua tūmeke pea ngā whaea rā. Arā, i konā, ka āhua aua, kei te ahu pēnei rā mātou o Waioeka.

     

    Koirā taku wā tuatahi i roto i te rōpū pakeke nei, pakeke nei.

     

    Arā, ka kite atu koe i ngā tāngata nē. Ngā mea katoa o Ngāti Ira, e whakaharatau ana, “Oh bei me uru atu au ki tēnei rōpū nē.”

     

    Wētahi tino, tino pai hoki ki te haka. Engari nāwai, nāwai, 

    ka haere te wā, arā, ka tū ko te rōpū ō Waioeka. Kia hoki tonu atu au, kei te kōrero tonu au.

    There was this guy, Eric Kurei. He taught us. He was such an intimidating tutor. Very hard on us aye. He taught most of us from Te Kura o Waioeka.

     

     

    Especially the men. The men idolised him. He was also gay.

     

     

    When he passed away, his funeral was at Ōpeke Marae. The Ringatū had the tekau mā rua at the same time. It was conducted on the marae.

     

    At his funeral, it came about, through an old wish of Erics, that Waioeka should stand again. And when he passed, this ones’ mum and one of the aunties.

     

     

    They were gathering names. Names to enter a group. This was at his funeral. Back then, it was for non-competitive purposes only. There wasn’t a name. The first practice was in the wharekai.

     

     

     

    Our pāpā, was lying in state in the wharemate. The Tekaumārua karakia were being conducted in Irapuaia. 

     

    There were about 90 of us practising. It started there. We had no name then. It started there. We had no name then. It was dubbed Te Rōpū Hātākēhi o Ngāti Ira. That was the name.

     

    One of our relations said to this one’s mum: Anā, ka mea atu tētahi o wā mātou karanga tuarua. “A ngahau team, let’s not be ngahau – let's compete”.

     

    The aunties were a bit taken back by that. From there, everyone was a little confused about what we of Waioeka should do.

     

    That was my first experience in an adult group. 

     

    You see all the people practising aye. Everyone from Ngāti Ira practising “oh bei I gotta get into this group then.” You know.

     

    Some were mean at haka. But time passed, and Waioeka stood.

    Let me go back further, I have heaps to say.

    Tēnā, tukuna.

    Carry on.

    He nui. Kī katoa taku puku i te kōrero.

     

    Te ingoa o Waioeka. Ka karangahia ake ngā kaumātua kia hui tahi ai ngā kaumātua me ngā rangatahi ki roto o Irapuaia. Kia rapu ingoa mō tēnei rōpū. Te rahingā o wā mātou kaumātua i tērā tāima, kua ngaro nei ki te pō.

     

    Nō reira, ka tū atu a Kōtene “Anei te ingoa, ko Waioeka nui-a-Kiwa”, ka tū anō tētahi kuia ka mea mai “E hē, kaua ko tēnā ingoa”.

     

    You know, Waioeka Nui-a-Kiwa. I pukumahi ai rātou I aua rā kia riro I a rātou I aua ra kia riro I a rātou te ingoa rā. Kia tīmata anō, hoatungia he ingoa hou. Koirā, wērā tūmomo. Engari kei te whakawhitiwhiti haere ngā whakaaro, kei te taukumekume.

    I have heaps. Heaps in me to give.

     

    The name Waioeka. The elders called for a meeting between the elders and youth in Irapuaia. To try and come up with a name. Most of our elders who were present have passed on.

     

     

    Then Kōtene stood and said, “here is the name, it is Waioeka nui-a-Kiwa”, but a kuia stood and said “no, not that name”.

     

     

    You know, Waioeka Nui-a-Kiwa. They worked hard for that name back in the day. We must start again or give them a clean name. That’s what it was like. They were in a deep discussion and debate.

    Āhuatanga Māori.

    Very Māori.

    Taupatupatu. Ā, koirā. Ngā āhuatanga Māori. Arā, ka huri rauna i te ao. Ka tū ake a Te Okeroa, ka mea, “Ka pēhea hoki tēnei ingoa, Te Karoro a Tamatea?”

     

    Nā Wharekawa Kūrau, he koroua anō tērā, i hōmai hei haki mō te marae.

     

    Tō hamuti, kāo. Arā, koirā ngā kōrero i tērā hui, ka huri te ao.

     

    Ka tae atu ki a Kōtene, kua mea atu: “Kua tau ko Waioeka te ingoa, hei ingoa mō te rōpū rangatahi nei.”

     

    Nō reira, koinā tōku tau tuatahi ki roto i te rōpū pakeke nei.

    Debating. That’s very Māori. It continues to go around. Te Okeroa stood and said, “What about this name, Te Karoro a Tamatea?”

     

     

    Wharekawa Kūrau, another elder, gave that as a name for the flag of the marae. 

     

    No way! That’s how it went at those hui, and so it continued.

     

    It got around to Kōtena, he/she said, “I’ve decided that it will be Waioeka, that will be the name of this young group.”

     

    That was my first experience in an adult group.

    Ka pai. Nō reira, ko tērā te tūāpapatanga o tō Ao Haka i a kōrua e pakeke haere, e hakahaka ana.

    Nō reira, tēnā kōrero mai mō ngā iho pūmanawa a kōrua nō roto hoki o Te Ao Haka. Me ngā w’akaakoranga, me ngā w’eako i w’akatōngia e rātou ki roto i a kōrua.

    Very good. So that was the foundation of te Ao Haka for both of you as you grew and performed haka together.

    Talk to me about your role models in Te Ao Haka. And all the learnings and experiences they have imparted on you both.

    Waimarie:

    E kōrero tēnei mō tētahi o wā mātou kui a Te Okeroa Huriwaka.

    Ko ia tētahi o aku tino kaiako i Te Kura o Waioeka. Ko ia tēnā i whakatō i ngā āhuatanga o te wiri ki roto i a mātou. Engari ko te āhuatanga o te wairua harikoa, i a mātou e tū ana ki te whakangāhau i te iwi.

     

    Te nuinga o wā mātou, o wāku whanaunga i tēnā wā.

    You know serious, katoa rātou. Engari ko tāna he akiaki i ahau kia tū whakangāhau.

     

    I te wā i mātaki i te kiriata i taku tau tuatahi mō te Taramea. Ko tāna, ko ahau e noho. 9 pea wāku pakeke e noho ana ki te mātaki. Ko tāna, “Mātaki i a Wai, anā, titiro ki a ia e whakangāhau ana i te iwi.”

     

    Ahakoa 9 pakeke, he pēnei ana karu. I say “ets girl”. Ki te hoki ki te mātaki ināianei, āta tau. 

     

    Engari ko ia tēnā, ā, i roto hoki i ōna waiata. Ahakoa he wairua whakangāhau te rangi, te kawe i ēnei waiata, i roto i ngā kupu o āna waiata.

     

    Ngā kōrero pērā i te whakatō i tā tātou ao Māori. Ko tētahi o wāku tino waiata ko “Whakarongo”.

     

    “Whakarongo mai rā e Mā, whakarongo mai rā e Pā. Ko au tō tamaiti nohinohi, kua puāwai nei taku taha Māori. I murua rā aku whenua, i tangohia rā aku rawa. Engari taku manawa Māori, kapakapa, ka mai tonu rā”.

     

    Koirā tētahi o aku tino waiata.

    Ko ngā kōrero o roto o aua waiata, ahakoa i ērā wā kāre i tino mārama ki ngā kupu. I te whakatō ia i ērā āhuatanga ki roto i a mātou.

     

    Āe, ko taku māmā hoki e tuku i a mātou ki te kura. Engari he wero ki āna tamariki hoki. Taua kuia me te katoa o tō mātou hapū kia whakahokia i wā mātou tamariki ki ngā kura kia whakatōhia i ērā āhuatanga ki waenganui i a tātou.

     

    Rawe. Rawe te rongo i aua waiata, ki te hoki ki te waiata, arā, i ngā pāti i ēnei rangi.

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    He whakaharikoakoa i te tinana.

     

    Waimarie:

    Āe. Ā, he hoki ki te kōrero hoki mo aua titonga.

    Waimarie:

    Let me talk about one of our kuia, Te Okeroa Huriwaka. She was one of my favourite tutors at Te Kura o Waioeka. She taught us the foundational skills of doing the wiri. But most importantly the act of having fun, while we are on stage performing in front of the iwi.

     

    Most of us, all of our relations of those times. You know a serious bunch, all of them but she encouraged me to have fun.

     

     

    When I watched the footage of my first stand at the Delamere Cup. She would tell me to sit down. I was about 9yrs old, and she sat me down to watch it. She said, “watch Wai, look at how she entertains the iwi.”

     

    Although I was only 9, she would still look at me in that way. I would say “ets girl”. If I were to watch it back now, I’d be at ease.

     

    That’s her though, and you can tell in her songs. Although the tunes are entertaining, it’s in the lyrics.

     

     

    Themes like embedding our Māori culture. One of my favourite songs is “Whakarongo”.

     

    “Listen to me dear mother, listen to me dear father. Here I am your youngin, my Māoriness has blossomed. My land was taken, my resources stripped. But my Māori heart beats hard”

     

     

    That’s one of my favourites.

    The messages in those songs, although we didn’t understand them at the time. It was embedding skills into us.

     

     

    Yes, and our mum as well who sent us to school. But she still challenged her kids. That kuia and the rest of the hapū challenged us to send our children to the schools that they were embedded with the same skills.

     

    Awesome. It is great to hear of those songs, let’s now return to those songs, the party songs.

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    They are made to excite the body.

     

    Waimarie:

    Yes. It goes back to the lyrics.

    Anana! te kuia rā, anō hoki ko ētehi iho pumanawa āu e Maru

    Wow! That kuia is probably one of your role models as well Maru.

    Tokomaha, nē.

    There are heaps aye.

    Kāre e kore.

    Without a doubt.

    Engari i tēnei wā ko te tokorua nei – Ko Hēni Green rāua ko Te Rangimaria Howl. Te Rangimaria Howl he kaihaka tonu māua, i roto tonu i tēnei rōpū.

     

    Ko te take, ko te tikanga i tīkina atu ko tēnei wahine, koia pea tētahi pou whakawhirinakitanga mōku. Pēnei tēnei na, engari i roto i te ao kapa haka, i a māua tahi e kura māhita ana ki te kura o Waioeka.

     

    Kei te kōrero noa iho au e pā ana ki te kapa haka.   I a māua e whakahaere ana i ngā tamariki, ko ia tēnā i panaia kia titoa e au i wētahi waiata. Threw me in the deep. Koirā tāku e mea panaia.

    Anā, ko tōna whakapono mai ki roto i ahau. Koirā tētahi o ngā tikanga e noho pēnā ana ahau ki tērā wahine. Nā runga anō i wērā āhuatanga, ko te whakapono. Nō reira, nā runga anō i tērā, e whakapono anō hoki nōku ki tērā wahine.

     

    Te kuia nei a Hēni Green. Nui rawa atu ngā kōrero e pā ana ki tēnei kuia. Ko au tētahi o ngā mokopuna i noho ki wāna pona, i noho ki wāna rekereke.  He kōrero noa iho.

     

    Kāre kau ko au tētahi o wāna kaihaka. I wērā tāima, nā Ngākohu Pera. Kei te mōhio koe ki te koroua rā, a Ngākohu Pera?

    For now, I’ll go with these two – Hēni Green and Te Rangimaria Howl. Te Rangimaria Howl, we were still performers in this team. 

     

     

    The reason I chose this woman is that she is a dependable source of support for myself. Like this one over here, but in the kapa haka world, and while we were both teaching at Te Kura o Waioeka.

     

     

    Let me just talk about kapa haka. When we were looking after our school kids, she pushed me to write some compositions. Threw me in the deep end, that’s what it meant by pushing me. She believed in me. That’s why she means a lot to me. All because of her belief. Because of that, I have the utmost belief in her as well.

     

     

     

    The kuia Hēni Green. There are heaps of stories about her. I was one of the mokos that sat at her feet. We just talked.

     

     

    I wasn’t one of her performers. In those days it was Ngākohu Pera. Do you know that koroua, Ngākohu Pera?

    Āe.

    Yes.

    Ngākohu Pera, nāna i hoatu, i tukuna atu te mauri pea, te mauri ki taua kuia rā. Hei whakahaere i ngā mahi o te kapa haka ki roto o Waioeka.

     

    Engari ko taua kuia rā, kāre e mōhio ana ki te culture o te iwi Māori. Ko tōna culture ko te taha ki te hākinakina. Koinā tāna, engari nā runga anō i te whakapono pea anō, ki te whakapono a te koroua rā ki te kuia nei. Arā, ka mau, ka mau mō te tāima i whakamoeahia atu rātou i ngā tau 80.

    Ngākohu Pera handed over the mauri to that kuia. To run the kapa haka in Waioeka.

     

     

    However, that kuia was new to the Māori culture. Her culture was sport. That was her field, but she had the belief, the belief that that koroua had put in her. And she held onto that, right up until the group was disestablished in the 80s.

    Anō nei ko ērā kuru pounamu nō roto i te takiwā nei.

    And those gems were all from this region.

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    He kuru pounamu.

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    They were gems.

    Tika rā ka mihia rātou.  Nō reira, i waihohia e rātou i ētahi taonga hei kapohanga mā kōrua. Nō reira, ka tika me kawe.

    It is only right they are acknowledged. They imparted knowledge on to you both to carry forth.

    A, hei kapohanga pea mā te katoa nē

    For everyone to access.

    Tika rā.

    You bet.

    Engari kua rerekē tā tātou noho i tēnei wā, nē. Kua rerekē te tāera, kei te pai tērā, kei te pai tērā.

    But it’s different these days. The style is different, and that’s ok.

    Nō reira, i a koutou e mōhio e ū ana ki ērā kōrero tuku iho me kī. Me pē’ea anō hoki te w’akatō ki roto i te ‘unga rangata’i o ēnei rangi?

     

    Me aha ana koe i roto i ō mahi hei māhita o Te Ao Haka kia taea te whakapuakina i Te Ao Haka mō ō ākonga?

    So, with knowing that, and trying to stick to that traditional knowledge. How do you think you can pass that on to the younger generation of today?

     

    What should you do as a tutor in Te Ao Haka to enable the students to express that knowledge through Te Ao Haka?

    Waimarie:

    Koirā tētahi o aku wawata, tētahi o aku hiahia kia māia te tū a wā mātou rangatahi. Ki roto i tā rātou ake ao haka, anā, kei a mātou te mahi nui kia para tika i te huarahi, kia mōhio mātou o roto o tēnei o ngā takiwā i te tū o Te Whakatōhea.

     

    Nā te mea, kei te ruku tonu ki ērā o ngā āhuatanga, me kī.

    Kāre i te tino mōhio pūmau ki tō mātou ake tū, ki tā mātou ake wiri. Engari kei te ruku tonu ki wērā āhuatanga.

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    Nā runga i wērā āhuatanga e kōrerohia, nē. Te whakamoea i tētahi rōpū kua kore mō te ahua 30 tau. Arā, ka whakaara anō i tētahi rōpū. Kei te kimi tonu i tērā huarahi.

     

    Waimarie:

    That is one of my dreams, for our youth to stand proudly. In their world of haka, we have a big job in paving the way for them so that we are all on the same understanding in regard to the stance of Te Whakatōhea.

     

    And in some ways, we are still delving into those aspects.

    We still don’t really know for sure our own stand and wiri. But we are learning.

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    Because of what has already been mentioned aye. The disestablishment of a group that hasn’t been sighted for 30 odd years. And then creating another group. We are still on that pathway.

    Nō reira ko te tino manako kia kite ai ngā rangatahi, ngā ākonga o Te Ao Haka i ērā taonga e noho mai nā ki runga i te huarahi o Te Ao Haka.

    Therefore, the biggest wish is for our younger generation to stay on that Te Ao Haka path.

    Ka tika

    Rightly so.

    Nō reira he taonga tēnei, te w’āngai i ngā taonga o Te Ao Haka ki ngā tamariki. Nō reira, ki tō tirohanga i roto i ngā tau e rua kua mahue ake nei - i pēhea āno hoki te w’akaw’anake, te tupu o ō ākonga i roto i Te Ao Haka?

    This is a gift, handing these gems on to the children of Te Ao Haka. In your opinion, over the last two years, how much have your students developed in Te Ao Haka?

    Waimarie:

    Rawe ki au te titiro, ki te ruku ki ngā āhuatanga kua kōrerohia i te rā nei. Arā, kua rangahau i ngā momo āhuatanga o te wiri, o te takahi, o te tū.

     

    Ko tā rātou ahakoa, āe, i tipu ki roto i tā rātou Ao Haka.

    Kāre i te tino mau pūmau ki ngā kōrero o ērā āhuatanga, o ngā āhuatanga tāpua.

     

    Kei te tiro noa, kei te kite i ngā āhuatanga o tā mātou whānau o Te Whānau-a-Apanui. E mau pūmau ana ki tā rātou tū. He pai noa kia ruku wā mātou tauira o konei ki tā rātou ake tū o Te Whakatōhea.

     

    Kia kite, āe, he tū anō tā tēnei iwi, ka kite i runga i te pouaka whakaata, i runga i te atamira, Te Matatini i te kapa o Ōpōtiki mai Tawhiti, engari kei hea? Nō hea tēnei takahi?

     

    Nō hea tēnei wiri? He aha te take e pēnei ana tātou? Koirā te tino tiro a ēnei ināianei. Kei te aro ki ērā āhuatanga, he rawe te kite.

     

    Kia kite rātou, āe, he huarahi pai tēnei mō te hunga rangatahi.  Ka kite te nuingā o rātou i wā rātou whānau kāre tino mahi i ēnei mahi haka. Engari ko rātou kei te kawe i tēnei āhuatanga mō ā rātou whānau. 

     

    Āe rawe, rawe ngā mahi, rawe ngā kōrero. Ko te hiahia kia kawe tonu nā te mea he itiiti noa iho ō mātou i tō mātou Kāreti. Kia pērā hoki te katoa, Auraki mai, kura kaupapa mai. Kia whai tēnei o ngā huarahi o Te Ao Haka.

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    Me te mea hoki he tino ātaahua rā.  Engari, kia piua hoki ko te pātai. Ki te hoki mai wā tātou tīpuna ki tēnei ao e nōhia nei e tātou i tēnei wā. Ka mārama rātou ki ngā wai whakahaere o te iwi i ēnei rā?

     

    Ka mārama, ka mōhio. Nō reira ko tō tātou mahi, tō tātou ā-iwi Māori nei. Pēhea rā e kawe atu i ngā āhuatanga kua whakaākonahia i roto i ngā tau kua pāhure ake? Me pēhea e mea?

    Waimarie:

    I really enjoy discussing and delving into what we have talked about today. We have looked at the wiri, the takahi and the stand.

     

     

    Yes, they are very happy, they have grown in te Ao Haka.

     

     

     

    They are seeing and noticing the intricacies of our whanau, of Te Whānau-a-Apanui. Holding true to their stand. It makes it more important for our students to analyse Te Whakatōhea’s stand.

     

     

    So, they know that this iwi has a stand of its own, they see it on the t.v., on stage, at Te Matatini from Ōpōtiki mai Tawhiti.

     

     

    Where is that wiri from? Why do we do it like this? That’s the main focus of today. They are looking out for all those things, it's awesome to see.

     

    Yes, they see it and think this is a good path for the younger generation. They see most of their whanau not really into hakas. But they take it up and carry on for their whanau.

     

     

    Yea it’s awesome, awesome work, awesome stories. I hope it continues because there are only a few of us at our college. I hope everyone does it. Mainstream schools and kura kaupapa. I hope they all follow the path of Te Ao Haka.

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    Because it is beautiful. But that begs the question. If our ancestors returned to the world, we currently reside in. Would they understand how the iwi operates today?

     

     

    When you understand, you know. So that is our job, us as iwi Māori. How do we continue to pass on the knowledge passed down to us over the years? How do we achieve that?

    Kia whakatāroaroa anō rā te oranga o ēnei taonga.

    So that this treasure of ours is prolonged.

    Nā te mea ko te kapa haka i tēnei rā he rerekē ki ngā kapa haka i ngā tau kua pāhemo ake rā.

    Because kapa haka today is not what it was yesterday.

    Tika rawa atu.

    You bet.

    Nō reira, ka rerekē anō i ngā tau e heke mai nei, ka rerekē katoa.

    And it’ll be different in the years to come.

    Kāore kore me te mea nei ko Te Ao Haka he ao hurihuri anō.

    Without a doubt Te Ao Haka will continue to evolve.

    Ka tika hoki.

    You bet.

    Nō reira i a mātou e noho mai nā i roto i tēnei ao hurihuri, i ēnei ākonga e whakarite ana mō Te Ao Haka.

     

    Tēnā e hoa mā, waihō mā i ētahi kuru pounamu, ētahi kupu kōrero ki ēnei rangatahi kia akiaki anō rā, kia hīkaka, hihiri noa i roto i a rātou mō tēnei taonga.

     

    He aha rā o kupu whakamutunga ki ō uri o Te Whakatōhea mō tēnei taonga e kīa nei ko Te Ao Haka?

    So, as we sit here today, discussing what these students will learn in Te Ao Haka.

     

    Please leave some pearls of wisdom for our younger generation to encourage them, so that they are eager and inspired in following this treasure. 

     

    What would be your final words? To your descendants of Te Whakatōhea about this treasure we call Te Ao Haka.

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    Kia noho whakaiti. Kia noho whakaiti, kia rangimārie. Koirā noa iho wāku kōrero. Ahakoa ngā āhuatanga katoa, he pai kia wikitōria i te Duncan Maclntyre, i te Delamere Cup aha rānō. Engari kia whakaiti ki roto tonu i a koe.

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    To have humility. Humility and peace. That’s all I have to say. No matter what, it is good to win the Duncan Macintyre, the Delamere Cup, and whatever else. But you must always remain humble.

    Me te mea hoki he iwi whakamā tēnei iwi, a Te Whakatōhea, he iwi whakamā tonu rā mātou. Anā, mēnā ko tō takitahi noa iho, tō takirua tō taki aha atu aha atu. Ka whakaeke koe ki runga i te marae, kotahi noa iho tō kaikōrero. Takitahi noa iho, takirua, he aha rā. Waiata i te waiata.

     

    Kia hoki atu au ki wētahi kupu a Hēni Green i mea atu ki āhau: “Kia wana to waiata. Ki te tū koe ki te waiata I runga I te marae, ā ko te reme iti a Mere tō waiata, kia wana tō waiata mot ā Mere reme.” Koinā ngā kōrero. Koinā tāku e mea atu “Waiata, ahakoa tō papatahi, kia wana te waiata, kia wana to reo papatahi”.

     

     

    Kei te pai noa iho, nē? Nō reira – engari – koirā. Ko te mea nui rawa atu kia whakaiti.

    And because this iwi, Te Whakatōhea, is a shy iwi by nature.  Whether you be on your own, or in a pair, or even more. Wherever you go onto a marae, we only have one speaker.

    One or two, it doesn’t matter. Sing their song.

     

     

    Let me return to something Hēni Green said to me: “Sing with passion, sing with passion. If you stand after your speaker on the marae and your song is Mary had a little lamb, sing Mary had a little lamb with passion”. That’s what she said. That’s why I say “ sing, whether you are flat or not, sing with passion, with flat passion”

     

    It’s all good aye? But that’s all. Humility is the number one.

    Tēnā koe e Maru. Anā, ki a koe e Waimarie.

    Thank you, Maru. And you Waimarie.

    Me hoki pea ki ngā kōrero a taku māmā, a Tracy, i taku tau tuatahi mō te kapa o Waioeka. Ko tāna, kia whai i tēnei mea te kounga, nē. Nā ka mōhio mātou āe ka whai ana i tēnei mea te ‘excellence’.

     

    Engari ki a tātou, kāre i te whai pērā ki ngā kōrero a Maru, i tēnei mea te taonga te whakataetae, te Duncan Macintyre. Kei te whai i te koungatanga o te kapa haka ki a mātou o Waioeka, o Te Whakatōhea, koirā tāku.

     

    Kia whakatō i ēnei āhuatanga ki waenganui i te hunga rangatahi o tēnei wā, kia hoki atu rātou ki wā rātou marae. Kia tū pērā ai ki ngā kōrero a Maru. Ki te tū mai tētahi, anā, tautoko i wāna kōrero. Ahakoa, āe, ko koe anake e tū mai.

     

    Māu ērā āhuatanga e kawe, kaua e waiho ki runga i te atamira. Āe, mōhio mai tātou i runga i te atamira e 40 ngā tangata e tū ana. Engari ahakoa ko koe, ko tō hoa anake, me kawe tonu i ērā āhuatanga.

     

    Koinā tāku tino hiahia kia mōhio mai te hunga rangatahi kia tū māia ki roto i tō rātou Whakatōheatanga, tō rātou Ngāti Iratanga. Aha atu, aha atu. 

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    Me te mea ko te nui o ngā titonga waiata o tēnei takiwā i ngā tau kua hori, ko ngā kupu o ngā tīpuna.

     

    “Puritia kia mau tō Māoritanga”

    Let me return to what my mother, Tracy, would say in my first year for Waioeka. She told me to pursue quality aye. So that we know, yup we are striving for excellence. 

     

     

    For us, we ain’t trying to aim for what Maru was talking about, in regard to competition, the Duncan Macintyre. We are striving for quality kapa haka in Waioeka, in Te Whakatōhea, that’s what I think.

     

    To plant the seed in the younger generation today so that they can return it to their marae. So that they can stand like what Maru mentioned. When someone speaks, they are able to support. Even if it is just you standing on your own.

     

    You can carry that, you don’t just leave it for the stage. We all know there are 40 people standing on stage. But it’s important that you can stand on your own, or with someone, and still deliver.

     

     

    That’s what I really want from our youth, for them to stand tall in their Whakatōheatanga, their Ngāti Iratanga, and so on. 

     

     

    Te Mihingaamaru:

    And also, most of our compositions from around here over the years, are words of our ancestors.

     

    “Holdfast to your Māoritanga”

    Rawe katoa ērā kōrero.

    That’s awesome to hear.

    Engari ka rawe katoa ki te wini I a Duncan McIntyre.

    But wouldn’t it be nice to win the Duncan Macintyre.

    Tērā pea ko te manakō, āe, kia ekea ai o tātou nei nei tamariki ki tērā o ngā taumata. Engari kāre anō he taumata i tūa atu i ō tātou nei tamariki. E pūmau ai ki te tuakiritanga o rātou.

    One day. That’s the dream, that one day our children can achieve that. But there ain’t anything as good seeing the kids being true to their own identity. 

    Tika tonu rā, ki wō marae. 

    Absolutely, and on the marae.

    Koia rā ngā kuru pounamu, ngā mōtoi taniwha, ngā kōkō tangiwai kua hora nei e kōrua hei taonga, hei pupurihanga mō ēnei tamariki, ngā rangatira o Te Ao Haka. Nō reira e hoa mā, e Maru, e Waimarie.

     

    Tēnei rā Te Ao Haka e mihi atu ana ki a kōrua.

    Mauri ora.

    Those are the gems, the treasures, the pearls of wisdom that you two have left for our children and our leaders of Te Ao Haka.

    Maru and Waimarie, I thank you both.

     

     

    This is Te Ao Haka, thanking you.

    Mauri ora.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [ Accordion ]

     

    Opening images of the beach and ocean with waves breaking, changing to a panned out shot of Te Ao Haka written in the sand. Birds eye view panning over greenery land with the ocean in the distance before changing to a close up of the beach and ocean with large coastal hills in the distance. A still image of footprints in the sand to a clip of bird’s eye view of a awa with green farm lands on either side. Close up of flowing water in the river. Close up shot of a street sign with “Timoti RD” displayed. A Clip of some sand dunes with ocean in the distance. Two close up images with one showing a Cross made with sticks to a heart shaped out in the sand with stones as its lines. Another bird’s eye view of farmlands and a town with a beautiful sunset in the distance. Birds eye view panning the town with streetlights and moving car lights as it fades from dusk to dark. Multiple close-up images of a carvings displayed one after another. The words Ngāti appear on the screen with a faded image of carvings in a park followed by a taiaha panning in from the left with the words “Te Ao Haka” appearing. Next is the interviewer Hukarere Greening sitting with her 2 interviewers Te Orihau and Lee.  

    Te Reo Māori

    English

    Kei aku tungāne o te ure tārewa o Tamatea Arikinui, o Ngāti Kahungunu, Waimārama, tēnā rā kōrua, nau mai haere mai ki te punua pāoho o te ao haka. Tēnā, ka tīmata ki a kōrua, ko wai kōrua, nō hea kōrua, anā, ki a koe Te Orihau.

    Dear brothers of the male line of Tamatea Arikinui, of Ngāti Kahungunu, and of Waimārama, greetings to you both. Welcome to the Te Ao Haka podcast. We’ll start with you both, who are you both and where are you from. Over to you, Te Orihau.

    Tēnā koe te tuahine. Ko Ngāti Kahungunu, Rangitāne ōku iwi. Nō Waimārama, nō Mākirikiri marae ki Tāmaki nui-a-Rua.

    Thank you, sister. My tribes are Ngāti Kahungunu and Rangitāne. I’m from Waimārama marae and also Mākirikiri marae in Tāmaki-nui-a-Rua. 

    Kia ora, ki a koe tungāne.

    Thank you. Over to you, brother.

    Tēnā koe, tēnā hoki koe i tō pōhiri mai ki au, otirā, ki a māua i tēnei o ngā rā. Ko Lee Kershaw tōku ingoa, nō Ngāti Kahungunu ki Waimārama. Piki ake rā ki a Te Tai Rawhiti, ki Ngāti Porou. Whakawhiti atu ki Te Tai Hauāuru nō Ngāti Ruanui hoki ahau.

    Acknowledgements to you also for welcoming us today. My name is Lee Kershaw, I’m from Ngāti Kahungunu ki Waimārama. I also have connections up in the East Coast, to Ngāti Porou. And also crossing over to the West Coast, I’m from Ngāti Ruanui.

    Tēnā koe, tēnā korua i a kōrua whakapapa. Anā, ka hoki atu ngā mahara, ki tō maharatanga tuatahi o tēnei mea te ao haka. Anā, he aha tēnā e Lee.

    Thank you both for sharing your lineage. Now, let’s go back to your first memories of te ao haka. What are those for you, Lee?

    I a au e hoki nei i ōku whakaaro, i taku whakawhanake mai ka huri ōku whakaaro ki ōku kaumātua. Ā, nā rāua ahau i poipoi mai i te wā i whānau mai ahau tae noa ki ngā tau e rima. Nā reira nōku te waimarie i tipu au i, kei raro i a rāua me tā rāua mahi, e mahi ana e rāua.  Ko te kapa haka tētahi o ngā kaupapa kua tino ngākaunui ana ōku kaumātua. Ko Syd rāua ko Anne Kershaw ō rāua ingoa. Ko rāua ngā kaiwhakaako, ngā kaiwhakahaere o te kapa haka o te Rauhina i ōna wā. Nā reira ko ōku whakaaro, ko ōku wheako o te kapa haka i au e tipu nei e hāngai pū ana ki te Rauhina me ngā whanaunga o tērā takiwā o Kihitu. Nā reira e mihi nei ki a rātou ahakoa kāre ōku kaumātua e whakapapa ana ki Te Wairoa, i noho rāua i reira mahi ana i ngā mahi, patu mīti o Te Wairoa nā konā i hua mai tērā kapa o te Rauhina i a rāua i Te Wairoa.

    Now that I think back to my upbringing, my thoughts turn to my grandparents.They were the ones who nurtured me from birth right up until the age of five. So, I was very fortunate to grow up under them and the things that they were doing. Kapa haka was one thing my grandparents were very passionate about. Their names are Syd and Anne Kershaw. They were the tutors and the organisers of Te Kapa Haka o te Rauhina back in the day. So, my ideas and experiences of kapa haka growing up are directly related to Te Rauhina and my relations in Kihitu. So I’d like to acknowledge them despite my grandparents having no genealogical connection to Te Wairoa, they resided there and worked at the meat works in Te Wairoa and so was born the Te Rauhina team whilst they were in Te Wairoa.

    Āe. I pēhea tērā? I pēhea te pakeke ake i aua wā me te pakeke ake i Te Rauhina. Ehara rātou i te kapa whakataetae, nē?

    Yeah, what was that like? What was it like growing up around those times and growing up with Te Rauhina. They weren't a competitive team, eh?

    Āe, i pērā rātou. Āe, i whakataetae rātou. Kua wareware i a au ngā tau i tū ai rātou, heoi anō, e mahara ana-

    They were. Yeah, no, they did do competition. They... oh, I forget what years they did perform, but I do remember-

    Te Orihau:

    1996, '94, '94, '94.

    Te Orihau:

    1996, '94, '94, '94.

    Lee:

    Ko ia ka mōhio. 94 no, mōhio pai au ko, i tū rātou i runga i te papa whakatūwaewae o Te Matatini. Ko Joylene mā ko Pare mā ka tū mō te kapa i aua wā rā.

    Lee:

    He knows. 94, no, I know that they performed at Te Matatini. Joylene and Pare and co performed for the team back then.

    Nā reira he mateoha ōku maharatanga mō rātou, ina koa, te whānau Rohe. He pakeke ake rātou i a au, ā, he tauhou hoki rātou ki te kapa haka i taua wā, ka kite ahau he momo te tangata nō Te Wairoa.

    So, I have good fond memories of them, particularly the Rohe whānau, because they're a bit older than me, and being very new themselves to kapa haka, I could see Te Wairoa people are a specific bunch.

    He momo te tangata nō Te Wairoa, ō māua whanaunga ki Wairoa. Nē, he mārō hītararī, ka ū ki te kaupapa,

    They are a specific type of bunch, our whanaunga in Wairoa. You know, hearty as, staunch to the cause,

    he hapori Māori ake nei, anā, nā runga i tērā ka whai wheako koe ki te ao Māori. Nōku te whiwhi i tā taku māmā tuku i a au ki aku kaumātua kia riro mā rāua ahau e whakapakeke ake i tētahi hapori papaku noa iho nei. He ātaahua te whakapakekehia mai ōku i taua momo ao.

    a very Māori community, and I think from that, you get to experience te ao Māori, and I guess I'm very fortunate for my mother to have sent me to my grandparents to be brought up by them in a very small community, so it was beautiful to be raised up in that type of environment. 

    Ka rongo i te waiata, ka rongo i ngā mahi haka me te mea hoki kāre te reo, kāre ōku kaumātua e mōhio nei ki te reo. Ko taua reanga tonu.

    You’d hear song, you’d hear haka and also my parents weren’t speakers of the language. They were of that generation.

    Nā reira he ara tēnā i whai wāhi ai mātou ki te reo. Ā mohoa nei, e whakapono nui ana au ki te kapa haka hei waka kawe i te reo. I hua ake tērā i taku nohinohitanga e rongo ana i te reo i ōku whaea kēkē me taku whānau. Āe, he tino ātaahua.

    So, it was an opportunity for us to still engage with te reo. In this day and age, e whakapono nui ana au ki te kapa haka hei waka kawe i te reo, and that's from my time when I was young hearing it with my aunties, hearing it with my whānau. Yeah, it was tino ātaahua.

    Āna, mīharo. Ki a koe Te Orihau, he aha ō maumaharatanga tuatahi, tēnei mea te ao haka?

    Yeah, mean. Over to you Te Orihau, what are your first memories of te ao haka?

    Maharatanga tuatahi, i te whare wānanga a mum i aua rā. Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato. Nōku te whiwhi i tae atu au ki ngā noho, ki ngā whakaharatau i aua wā, i ngā tau iwa tekau. I reira a mum kāre ia mō te tū engari i haere ia ki ngā haratau katoa, whakaharatau katoa. He ringa whero. I aua rā i te tū a Te Kahautu mā, Reuben Collier, Pānia Papa i te tū tonu ia ki Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato, ā, ko ngā Huata hoki, Te Rita hoki. Nō reria i aua rā ko rātou ngā taiohi o te kapa.

    My first memories are from when mum was at Waikato University. I was fortunate enough to be able to go to the live-ins and the practices back then in the 90s. Mum was there, though she didn’t perform, she went to all of the practices. Back then it was all the giants such as Te Kahautu, Reuben Collier, Pānia Papa who were all performing for Waikato University. There was also the Huata family, and Te Rita. Back in those days they were the young ones of the team.

    I pai ngā waiata, I pai ki a koe ngā waiata i aua rā? Ngā momo waiata i waiatahia e rātou me ngā rangi? Kei te mahara rānei?

    The songs were good, did you like the music back then? The types of waiata that they were singing, the tunes? Remember those?

    Kei te mahara ahau ki ētahi o ngā rangi, engari ko tāku e tino mahara ana ko ngā tūnga ki te Koroneihana. Ka huri mai ngā tāngata, kāore i te mahara ki taku pakeketanga, heoi anō, ka waiata atu ahau i te wā e tū ana rātou.

    I remember some of the tunes, but I always remember when they would perform at Koroneihana, people would turn around... and I don't even remember what age I was... but I'd be singing along as they're performing

    Ka titiro mai ngā tāngata me te kī mai, “Hoihoi!”, ngā whaea kēkē, ngā matua kēkē e whakamūmū mai ana. Mahara ana hoki ahau ka haere ana a māmā ki ngā noho, ka noho atu ahau ki a Teina Moetara rāua ko Christine Moetara.

    People were just looking around telling me to, "Oh, shh," all the aunties and uncles telling me to shush, and at that time I remember also when mum would go to noho, I would stay with Teina Moetara and Christine Moetara.

    Ka tuku noa rāua i te kapa haka kia rarahi ana, ā, ka parakitihi i ngā pūkenga tā moko ki a māua ko tōku teina. Āe, he maharatanga mateoha tēnā o te pakeke ake i Waikato.

    And they would actually have the kapa haka blaring in the background, and then they would also be practising moko on both myself and my younger brother. So yeah, that was a very fond memory that I have of growing up in Waikato.

    Lee:

    Hei āpiti i ngā kōrero.

    Lee:

    Just to add to the conversation.

    Kei te hia huritao noa iho ahau i te taiao ka hua ake i te kapa haka. Ka rekareka te manawa i te mōhio ka pai noa iho tō waea atu ki ō tāngta, ki ō whaea kēkē, ki ō matua kēkē, ā, mā rātou koe e tiaki mai.

     I just wanted to also reflect on the environment in which kapa haka brings to that space. As a young person it's really satisfying and, I guess, fulfilling to be going into a space that you can call people your aunties, your uncles, and they look after you.

    Āe.

    Yeah

    Mahara hoki ahau ka karangahia ahau ko Mr. Lee e te whānau o reira, i te mea he wairua manaaki i roto i te kapa. I noho waiwai tērā i te whakatōnga o aua uaratanga me aua mātāpono e hāngai pū ana ki tā te Māori titiro, i roto hoki i ngā whakapakeketanga ake. He ātaahua rawa atu.

    And I remember being called Mr. Lee by all of our whānau there, because we had such a manaaki wairua o roto i te kapa, and I think that was really integral to really instilling those values, aua mātāpono, e hāngai pū ana ki tā te Māori titiro, as part of the upbringing, ātaahua rawa atu.

    I tū rānei he haka-boogie nōu i tīmata ki te kura? I tū rānei ētahi kaupapa haka i te wā o te kura tuatahi, tuarua rānei?

    Was there any haka boogies around at kura when you started kura, or any hakas going on around at primary or intermediate for both of you?

    Te Orihau:

    Āe, he rite tonu te kī mai a taku māmā ko te tau 1990 te tau i hari tuatahi ai ia i a mātou ki te whakataetae ā-motu. Kāore ahau i te mahara, e rima noa iho aku tau i taua wā. Engari e mahara ana ahau i tae atu ahau i te tau ’92, anā, kua tae atu ahau i te ’92 ā tua atu. He kanohi kitea mātou i Te Matatini.

    Te Orihau:

    Yes, mum always told me that 1990 was our first Nationals that she took us to. Don't remember that, because I would've been five, but '92, I do remember attending '92, and I've attended since '92 that I remember, until now, yeah. So we were avid attendees, you could say, of Matatini.

    Me ngā whakataetae ā-rohe anō hoki. He kaha nō taku māmā ki te whakawhanaunga i te wā i a ia i te kura.

    And then also all the Regionals as well, from mum making all of those connections through her schooling.

    He hoa ōna huri i te rohe, nā reira ka noho atu mātou ki a rātou, ka haere ki tō rātou whakataetae ā-rohe, ana, ka peke ki rohe kē, ka noho ki whānau kē atu. Āe, i kaha te wairua ā-whānau i aua wā.

    She's had friends all around the rohe, so we'd also go stay with them, go to their Regionals, then go to the next Regionals and stay with that whānau. Yeah, so that was just a whānau sort of vibe at those times.

    Āe, nā reira i mau tonu tērā awenga nōu i te kura? He kaiako haka ōu i te kura tuatahi? I kuraina koe ki Waikato?

    Yeah, so did that influence carry on through your schooling? Did you have any tutors that were at school when you were schooling in primary? Did you go to school in Waikato?

    I kuraina ahau ki Ōmahu nei. Ko Wi Tom Pohatu tō mātou kaiako haka I aua rā. Nō mātou ka hūnuku atu ki Waikato, i Te Ara Rima mātou. Kāore ahau i te mahara ko wai te kaiako i aua rā.

    I went to school here in Ōmahu. Wi Tom Pohatu was our kapa haka kaiako back then. When we did move to Waikato, we were at Te Ara Rima, and I'm not too sure... yeah, don't remember who the kaiako was back then.

    Engari e mahara ana ahau i tohuherea mātou e māmā, kāo, i poipoia kē mātou ki te mahi kapa haka i aua rā.

    But I remember having to, we were pretty much forced from our mother... not forced, nurtured in to do kapa haka at those times.

    Pēwhea koe, Lee?

    How about you, Lee?

    I haere au ki te Kura Tuatahi o Raureka, 

    I went to Raureka Primary School.

    Nā, ko te Kura Tuatahi o Raureka te kura i kuraina ai au, ā,

    so Raureka Primary is where I went to school, and 

    ko te kaiako Māori i reira ko taku matua kēkē, ko Dean Kershaw tōna ingoa, 

    The Māori teacher there was my uncle, Dean Kershaw.

    ka pukukata ahau. I te hui ā-kura mātou i tētahi rā, ana, ka kī mai rātou “Katoa te hunga pīrangi mahi kapa haka, tūtū mai koutou, e uru ai koutou ki ngā mahi kapa haka me Mr. Kershaw,” i pukukata i te mea kāore ahau i tū. I noho ahau, he whakaaro nōku, “O,” Kāore ahau i pīrangi haere me taku matua kēkē. He tangata mateoha, heoi anō,

    and I cracked up. We were in the assembly hall one day, and they were like, "Right. Everybody who wants to do kapa haka, you need to stand up now, so you can go into the kapa haka with Mr. Kershaw," and it was a crack up, because I didn't get up. I sat down because I was like, "Oh," I didn't want to go with my uncle because he was lovely, but you know,

     kaha tohutohu mai a ia ki ahau.

    He was always telling me what to do.

    Ka kī au, “Kāo,” engari i nui taku whakamā. Ka whakatūhia ahau i mua i te kura katoa e te tumuaki, i te mea ko ahau te irāmutu a Mr. Kershaw, te kaiārahi i ngā mahi kapa haka o reira, nā reira ko te tikanga ka ū koe ki ngā mahi kapa haka, nē. Ka pērā koe nā te mea ko wai hoki ka whakanau atu ki te matua kēkē, nē, heoi anō. He wā ōna ka kaingākau koe ki te kapa haka, ana, he wā anō ka,

     I was like, "Nah," but it was so embarrassing. I got made to stand up in front of the whole kura by the principal, because I was the nephew of Mr. Kershaw, who was doing the kapa haka there, so I guess there was an expectation that you'd carry on doing the kapa haka, and as you do. You do it because, who's going to say no to your uncle, you know, but yeah, there was times where you love kapa haka, and then times where you are like,

     "Oh, ka āhua ngenge," engari āe, ko te aroha o te whānau tērā, waihoki, ko te kākano i whakatōngia e ōku kaumātua mau tonu ana tērā, ahakoa te aha, ahakoa ngā ahatanga mini peke, mini heke, hoi anō.

    ‘O, bit tired,” but yeah, it's just te aroha o te whānau and that was the seed planted by my grandparents and I guess that's carried on through ahakoa te aha, we go through little ups and downs, but yeah.

    Āe, kia kōrero tātou mō ō kaumātua, tō koroheke me tō kuia. He aha te āhua o tā rāua whakaawe i tō ao haka, Lee?

    Yeah, let's just talk about your grandparents, your grandfather and your grandmother. What influences have they had on your upbringing in te ao haka, Lee.

    Kāore he kupu hei whakaahua ake. Tērā ētahi whakaawenga ki tōku anō whanaketanga, ki taku tipuranga. He tangata pūharakeke rāua. Tē aro i a rāua ngā āhuatanga whairawa. Tē aro atu. I aro kē rāua ki te whānau, ki te noho ki te marae, nā reira koirā ngā momo whakaaro i whakatōkia mai e rāua ki roto i a au.

    Probably words that I can't describe, actually. They have been key influences as part of my own development, part of my own growth. They're very, I should say, grounds root people. They don't like flash things. They're not into it. Their place is being with their whānau, is being on the marae, so they have really instilled a lot of that whakaaro in me.

    Āe, he uaua te kimi i ngā kupu hei whakamārama i tā rāua whakaawe mai i a au, engari ko tētahi kupu ko te mātauranga. Ki te huritao ahau i tērā, ko taku kuia te tumuaki o Te Kura Tuatahi o Wairoa, nā reira

    Yeah, words are really hard to describe the influence that they have had on my life, but I guess one in particular is mātauranga, and if I reflect on that, is my nanny being a tumuaki at Wairoa Primary, so

     i a au i tipu i tōna taha ko ia i kumea mai i a au ki tōna kura ia te rā, ia te rā and mātauranga he wāhanga anō tērā o tō mātou ao, ana, ko taku kuia tērā e whakatō nei i tērā kākano ko te mātauranaga tonu ka puare mai ka tūhera mai ngā tatau ki te ao.

    throughout my upbringing she would drag me alongside her to her school every day and knowledge was was just part of our life, and my grandmother would plant that seed of knowledge within us, and it opened the doors to the world.

    Nā reira āe, ko te mātauranga, me te whakaū hoki i tā mātou whai i ō mātou wawata. Koirā pea ngā akoranga nui i taku kuia.

    So yeah, education, and ensuring that we aspire for whatever it is in our lives that we want to, has been probably one of my biggest teachings and learnings from my kuia.

    Āe. Pēhea koe, Lee, nā tō māmā koe i poipoi ki te whai i te ao haka, i tū rānei ia?

    Yeah. About you too Lee, with your mum nurturing you into te ao haka, did she ever perform?

    I tū ia ki te Koroneihana. I waimarie hoki ia ki te tū me Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato, engari mutu ana tērā, ka hūnuku ia ki te kāinga, ka tū ai me Ngā Waka, tētahi kapa nō te takiwā nei. Tōna ono tau pea te roa o tana tū me rātou.

    She did perform at Koroneihana. She got to perform with Whare Wānanga o Waikato, but after that she moved home, and then she performed with Ngā Waka, one of the local teams from here, where she performed for about maybe six years.

    Āe, engari i noho mātou ki Waikato. Ka hoki atu mātou i te wā i a au i te wharekura.

    Yeah, but we ended up staying in Waikato, but then we moved back when I was in wharekura.

    Rawe.

    Cool. 

    Whakawhiti atu ki te wharekura, i tū kōrua ki te haka ki tō te wharekura taha.

    So, crossing over to secondary school, you both performed with your secondary schools.

    Te Orihau:

    Kāo, karekau he kapa haka o roto i taku kura. I haere au ki te Kura Katorika o Hato Hoani, tokoiti noa iho ngā Māori i reira. So yeah, kāre i whai wāhi au ki te mahi kapa haka mō tōku ake kura i te mea karekau he kapa haka. Hoi anō me mihi ka tika ahau ki taku kaiako Māori, ko Paul Blake nō Te Māhia. Tērā tangata, ngākau nui ana ia ki ngā taonga tuku iho a kui mā, koro mā. Ahakoa kāre kaha ana, kāre tokomaha ana ngā Māori ka tae atu ki taua kura, ko ia tonu e kaha āki nei i a mātou ngā ākonga Māori kia tū mai mō ngā kaupapa pēnei i te Manu Kōrero, pēnei i ngā kauhau Māori o te wā o te kainga nei. Hoi anō kāre i whai wāhi atu ahau mō ngā mahi haka o roto i ngā mahi, i a au i te kura. Kare pērā rawa i ngā rā nei, ehara i te mea ko ngā mahi o te ao haka i te wā i a au i te kura. Tē aro ki ngā mahi haka i au i reira. Kaha nei te waiata i ngā hīmene. Mēnā e whakapono ahau.

    Te Orihau:

    No, my school didn’t have kapa haka. I went to St John’s Catholic School, there were only a few Māori there. So yeah, I didn’t partake in kapa haka for my own school because there was no kapa haka. However, it is only right that I acknowledge my Māori teacher, Paul Blake from Te Māhia. That man had a real passion for the treasures that have been handed down from the forebears. Despite the fact it wasn’t that strong and there were only a few Māori at that school, he would still strongly encourage us Māori students to enter into competitions such as Manu Kōrero and Māori speech competitions of the area. However, I didn’t participate in the kapa haka element of those events while I was at school. It’s not like how it is today, there was no te ao haka when I was at school. I paid it no attention while I was there. We actually sung hymns if I’m honest.

    Yeah, so koinā noa iho ōku wheako, aku mahi haka i au i te kura, i te Kura Tuarua.

    Yeah, so those are my only experiences of haka at secondary school.

    Pai, ki a koe Te Orihau.

    Cool, over to you, Te Orihau.

    I te tau rua mano mā rua, kua tino rerekē. I te tau rua mano mā rua i tae atu au ki Te Kura o Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga, i tuarua mai mātou i te whakataetae ā rohe i konei. Nō reria koirā tā mātou tū tuatahi ki te whakataetae ā motu mō tēnei o ngā rohe, i reira ahau e tino rongo nei i te wairua o te kapa haka me tērā wairua o te whakataetae.

    In 2002, it’s different now. In 2002 Te Kura o Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga placed second in the local regional competition. So that was our first stand at the nationals representing this region. That was when I really got a feel for kapa haka and for competing.

    Koirā te kaupapa i tuwhera ai ōku karu ki ngā mahi kapa haka ā-whakataetae nei-

    Yeah, so through that, yeah, that was my first eye opener to competitive kapa haka-

    Kia ora.

    Right.

    … nā te kura.

    ... through te kura.

    Ka pai. Ko wai mā ō kaiako i taua wā?

    Right. Who were your tutors then?

    Ko Hira Huata tētahi, he wahine irawhiti ia.

    Our one tutor then was Hira Huata, and she is a trans woman.

    Nā reira i mōhio ia ki te whakaako i ngā tama ki ō rātou rangi waiata, ana, ka tahuri ai ki te āwhina i ngā kōtiro me ngā reo tōiri.

    So, she was able to give the men and the boys, sorry, the boys at the time, boys their notes, and then was able to give the girls their notes in falsetto.

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    Pūkenga ake nei ia i taua wā. Ka mutu, kei te pērā tonu. Āe, i taua wā e 40 ngā tamariki i whakaakona e ia, ā, ko te nuinga o mātou he irāmutu nāna. Nā reira he wā ōna i rawe, he wā hoki ōna i wehi. He akoranga hoki i roto, he nui ōna mātauranga, wheako hoki i tukuna mai ki a mātou, ki āna tauira.

    So, she was tricked back then. Oh, she still is, but yeah, back then she took on 40 of us kids, and we were pretty much all of her nieces and nephews. So, it was amazing sometimes, and then also daunting sometimes, just learning a different wairua of kapa haka, and then also learning, she's so knowledgeable and she passed on a lot of wheako to us her tauira.

    He wheako nui ērā. Tū hei tāne, tū hei wāhine. Nā reira i taea e ia te whakaatu i ā koutou tū?

    Those are rich experiences. Performing both the male stance and the women’s stance. So, she was able to show you your stance?

    Ā mātou tū, āe.

    Show us our stance, yes.

    Me te whakatauira i te tū? Me pēhea te tū ki te haka, te rangi o te waiata.

    Give you examples of how to tū? How to stand in the haka, the notes in a song.

    Te rangi o te waiata.

    The notes in a song.

    Kātahi ka tahuri ki te āwhina i ngā kōtiro. Wehi nā. Nā reira kia kōrerohia tērā, kia ruku atu tātou ki tērā kaupapa. Ki ahau nei, he mea nui kia māori noa iho ā tātou tamariki, rangatahi o te hapori āniwaniwa e raru ana i te kura, i te wharekura rānei. He nui nō ngā whakaaro i roto i ō tātou kura, me te kore o ētahi tamariki i mōhio he āhuatanga kē atu ō ētahi tamariki.

     

     

    Arā, ko ētahi o ā tātou tamariki he ira tāhūrua-kore, anā, ko ētahi ka whirinaki atu ki te ira wahine, ā, ko ētahi o ō tātou wāhine ka whirinaki atu ki te taha tāne.

     

    Nā, kia ruku atu tātou ki aua kōrero. I pēhea tērā ki a koe, Te Orihau?

    And then switch over and look after the girls. Wow. So, speaking about that then, let's get into that kaupapa, because I think it's really, really important that we normalize our tamariki and our youth, our rainbow community, who actually find it hard and difficult in kura, wharekura especially, because there's so many opinions within our kura, and our kids not knowing that some kids like to be different.

     

    Non-binary, there's our kids that are non-binary, and then there's our kids that identify more with the feminine side, and then our wāhine as well, who also identify with more masculine side.

     

    So, let's get into that. What has that been like for you Te Orihau?

    I waimarie ahau i a Whaea Hira hei kaiako.

    I think I was lucky in the sense that I had Whaea Hira as a tutor.

    I te mea he tokomaha mātou i whakaaro pērā i taua wā, ina koa i te wharekura, tae ana ki ngā nohinohi, ka kite koe i te whirinakitanga ki te taha wahine, ki te taha tāne rānei. Engari i mōhio ia ki te akiaki i taua taonga i roto i a mātou, nā reira ka rongo mātou i te haumarutanga o te taiao i noho rā mātou.

    Because there was a lot of us that were at that mindset at the time, especially through wharekura, even the younger babies, that you could sense that they had more taha wāhine or more taha tāne, but she would akiaki that gift for us, so we felt safe in the environment that we were in.

    Anā, ka whakatō mai ia ki ngā tuākana kia pērā tonu mātou ki ngā tēina.

    And then she instilled into the, especially the tuākana, to carry that on into the tēina.

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    Nā reira i waimarie te kura, kua haumaru katoa rātou, tae ana ki te reanga o nāianei kei te kura tonu. Ehara tērā wāhi i te wāhi ira tāne anake, e wātea ana hoki te taha wahine.

    So, I was luckily enough for the kura, they have all felt safe, even till this generation now that are still at the kura, where that space is not just masculine. It can also be feminine as well.

    Ka whai ngā tamariki i tētahi wāhi e wātea ai rātou ki te kōwhiri ko wai rātou.

    Rawe, nā reira koirā ngā kupu āwhina ka tukuna ki ngā kaiako, kia mōhio ki te whakarite i taua momo wāhi, nē? Āe, rawe. Pēhea koe, Lee?

    And that space is provided for our kids to be able to be whoever they want to be.

    Cool, so that's the type of advice we'd give to any kaiako out there, to be able to provide that space, eh? Yeah, cool. What about you Lee?

    He tautoko i ngā kōrero a Te Orihau me mihi ka tika ki a whaea Hira i whakawātea mai i tērā papa, i tērā wāhi mō te hunga e pērā ana.

    I agree with what Te Orihau has said, it’s only right that we acknowledge Whaea Hira for providing that space for that community.

    Āe, he tika tāu. Me māia te tangata e tū atu ai ia ki aua wāhi. Heoi anō, kia hoki au ki tā Te Orihau i huritao ai, he taiao haumaru te kapa haka.

     And yeah, I think you're right. It takes a courageous person to be able to really put themselves out there in that space, but fortunately like Te Orihau has reflected on that, kapa haka is a very safe environment.

    Mēnā kāore e pērā ana, koirā hei whai mā ngā kaiako – he taiao whakaaro nui ki ngā whakapono katoa, ki ngā ira katoa, ki ngā ānga katoa, he aha rā te whakatinanatanga o tērā i tō mātou hapori, mō ā tātou tamariki, he mana tō te tangata. Me kaua e wareware i a tātou, he tamariki tonu rātou, kei te kimi tonu ko wai rātou me te āhua o tērā. Nā reira i tōna tikanga ko ngā pakeke, i tā rātou noho hei kaiārahi i ēnei mahi, me poipoi. Ko te kapa haka, te waiata, te haka, he ara e wātea ai rātou ki te whakapuaki i a rātou anō, kāore pea e taea ana tērā i horopaki kē atu.

    Or if not, that's what tutors need to aspire to create, is an environment that is encompassing of all faiths, all genders, all sexuality, whatever that might look like for our community, for our tamariki, he mana tō te tangata, and we need to not forget that, that they're very young, and they're trying to find themselves, whatever that might look like, and so pakeke as leaders in this space, we should be nurturing them along this journey, and I think kapa haka, through waiata, through haka, is an opportunity for them to really express themselves that they may not be able to do in other circumstances or in other situations.

    So me mihi ka tika ki a Whaea Hira, but you know, kua hoa, piri hoa māua neke atu i ngā tau tekau,

    So big shout out to Whaea Hira, but you know, we’ve been together for over ten years now,

    kua tata neke atu i te tekau tau māua e piri ana. Kāo, kua hipa i te tekau tau. Ana i tā māua noho hei takatāpui i roto i ngā mahi kapa haka, he ara wātea tēnei ki te whakaatu atu ki ā tātou tamariki rangatahi e takahi ana pea i tēnei ara, te tūhura i a rātou anō, kia mōhio ai rātou he wāhi tō rātou i roto i ēnei mahi kia tū motuhenga ai koe. Mēnā kei te pīrangi tū hei kaitito, hei

     so we've been together for nearly over 10 years. No, actually for over 10 years and as gays within kapa haka, I think it's an opportunity for us, in particular whakaatu atu, to show our other young tamariki, rangitahi who may be going down this pathway, figuring out themselves, to know that there are opportunities in this space for you to do whatever you want do. If you want to be a kaitito, if you want to be a 

    kaiwhakahaere o te kapa, kaipupuri i te mauri o te kapa. Mehemea he takatāpui, mehemea he mate wāhine, he aha rawa rānei. Nē, he pai noa.

    tutor of the team, holder of the essence of the team. Whether you’re gay, whether you’re a lesbian whatever. You know, it’s all good.

    Kia rite ki a Whaea Hira.

    Be like Whaea Hira

    Hātakēhi. He rawe tēnā. He tino rawe, he whakaawe hoki i ā tātou tamariki.

    Oh funny. That is so cool. It's really, really cool and inspiring for our tamariki.

    Te Orihau:

    I ētahi wā he uaua ēnei momo kōrero me ēnei momo matapakinga, nā te mea ko wai te tangata me tahuri rā koe i roto i ēnei mahi? He wāhi nui tō ngā kaiako, ngā kaiako haka ki te whakamānawatanga o ēnei āhuatanga. Tērā ngā kōrero i ā tātou waiata, pūrākau anō hoki, he nui ngā kōrero tuku iho, e kōrerohia ana mō tēnei hononga, nā reira ka pēhea te tō mai i ērā ki ēnei mahi ka whai pānga, whai hononga aua kōrero tuku iho ki te horopaki e noho nei tātou?

    Te Orihau:

    And it's sometimes really hard to have this discussion and conversation, because who do you turn to in this place? So, our kaiako, our tutors, our teachers, play a real pivotal role in embracing this. So, it talks about our waiata and our stories, there are lots of stories that have been handed down which discuss this connection, so actually, how do we bring this into a space do they have relevance or a connection to our current context?

    Tika. Kāre e kore he manu a tāne e pērā ana i aua wā rā. Tātou katoa e whakarite ana i a tātou manu o te waonui a Tāne. 

     

     

    I pīrangi rānei koe ki te mahi i te poi? He wā rānei kāore nei koe i pīrangi mahi i te haka? Ko au kei te mōhio he whāpura ake nei kōrua hei tāne haka, e mōhio ana ki te haka, engari i pīrangi rānei kōrua ki te tiki ake i ngā poi me te uru atu ki ngā rārangi wāhine?

    True. There’s no doubt that there would have been some of Tāne’s birds who were in the same position in those days. We’re all just like the birds in the great forest of Tāne.

     

    Did you ever want to do the poi? Was there ever a time where you just didn't want to do the haka. I know you're both fabulous, both fabulous haka men, can do the haka, but was there ever a time that you just wanted to pick up a poi, and jump in the women's rows?

    Te Orihau:

    Mōku ake nei, kāo. Engari kāore au i te kī e kore au e whiuwhiu haere i te poi, āe,

    Te Orihau:

    For me personally, no. Not to say I don't like to swing a poi now and then, but yeah,

    kāre i, tērā hiahia o roto i au kia tū i ngā rārangi wāhine, mōhio pai au, he tāne ahau, me te pai hoki o tērā ki au e noho, pai tērā. Kāre tērā hiahia i roto i au, hoi anō ka rerekē pea tō whakaaro.

    I didn’t have a desire to jump in the women’s rows, I know I’m a male, and I’m all good with sitting it out. I don’t have that desire within me, but maybe it’s different for you.

    Lee:

    Āe, kaingākau ana ahau ki te poi me te mahi i te poi, engari kia hoki ahau ki ā Lee kōrero, kei te pai noa iho ki a au te mahi i te haka anake me ngā mahi a te tāne. Engari i te wā i tīmata ai au i ngā mahi kapa haka, ka pīnono atu ahau ki te kaiako tuarua, “Homai he poi, homai he poi,” engari kua kī mai ia, “Kāo, he rawe ngā kōtiro mahi poi, nā reira kāore he take kia mahi poi koe.” Ka kī au, “Ka pai, āe. Nō rātou te mana, waiho mā rātou.”

    Lee:

    I think yeah, I do love and appreciate poi and love performing it sometimes, but just like Lee said, I am comfortable with just doing the haka, and doing all the masculine things. But when we did start our kapa haka, I begged the other tutor, "Let me have a poi, let me have a poi," but then she'd always tell me, "No, we've got really good poi girls, so no, you don't need to do it." I'm like, "Okay, Yeah. nā rātou te mana, they can have that."

    Heoi anō, āe, he kaha tonu taku tautoko atu, ka tīkina ngā poi. He pai ki a au te noho noa, kātahi ka, “O āe, kua mau i a au.”

    But yeah, always there to support and I'll pick up the poi. I like to just watch and then, "Oh yeah, I got it."

    Āe. Ka karawhiua.

    Yeah, have a bang.

    Āe, ka karawhiua, engari kāore au i pīrangi kia hipa i tērā, arā, kia uru atu ki ngā rārangi.

    Yeah, just have a bang, but yeah, not actually want to take it further and jump in the lines.

    Āe, te pare atu i ngā kōtiro.

    Yeah, move all girls out of the way.

    Āe. Ka whakangungua, āe. Heoi anō-

    Yeah. I'll practice it, yeah. But yeah-

    He mīharo tēnā. Kei te pīrangi kōrero ahau ināianei mō ngā tū ā-pakeke nei, ngā momo kapa kua tū nei koe. Kua tū rānei koe ki ngā kapa pakeke o konei, i Pātea rānei?

    No, that's really, really cool. I want to get into adult performing now, the different kapa haka that you've stood for. Have you ever stood in any of our adult teams around here, or maybe over in Pātea?

    Lee:

    Yeah, ae ko au tētahi o ngā kaiwhakahaere me tētahi o ngā kaihaka o te kapa haka Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga. Kua tū au mō ngā kapa ā rohe, ā iwi nei. Mō ngā ahurei ā iwi pēnēi i te ahurei o Taranaki Tū Mai, ka hoki atu ahau ki Ngāti Ruanui, ki ōku whanaunga ki Pātea mahi i ngā mahi haka o te kāinga. Hoi anō mō te taha whakataetae, ko Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga te kapa e tino ngākau nui ana ahau. Me te mea hoki ko te whakaaro i roto i au, i a au e whitawhita tonu nei i te ahi o tēnei kapa, kia whanake mai ngā kaihaka o Ngāti Kahungunu ake. Kua kaha kite au i ngā tau ki muri nei ō tātou kaihaka pakari nei o te kainga ka hoki, ka haere ki kapa kē atu, ki iwi kē atu. Nā runga i te mōhio kāre e kaha, ki tō rātou whakapae, whakaaro, kāre he kaha ngā rōpū o te kāinga nei, e eke ana ki te taumata e tika ana ki ngā whiringa whāiti o Te Matatini. Nā reira ko au e ū ana, ko au e mau tonu ana ki te whakaaro, me kaha te tū a Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga kia puta mai, ka ara mai, ka hua mai ngā kōrero o Heretaunga ake, o te kāinga nei. Ki te kore mātou e waiatahia i aua waiata, mā wai atu? Nā reira, koirā pea tētahi o ngā tino, he aha, koinā tētahi o ngā tino tūāhuatanga e…

    Lee:

    Yeah, I’m one of the tutors of Te Kapa Haka o Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga. I’ve performed at regional competitions and festivals such as Taranaki Tū Mai. I also return to Ngāti Ruanui, to my relations in Pātea to partake in the kapa haka activities back home. But in terms of competitive haka, my heart is with Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga. And I believe, while I am still part of this team, we should be developing the performers of Ngāti Kahungunu. I’ve seen a trend over the years where our star performers of home go and join other teams and other tribes. And that’s because they believe their tribal teams aren’t that good and won’t be able to make the finals of Te Matatini. So, I strongly believe that Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga needs to stand strong so that the stories of Heretaunga, our home, can be heard. If we don’t sing those songs, then who will? So that’s probably one of the real aspects that…

    Yeah. Kei te hiahia tonu koe te tungi. He ataahua tēnā. Pēwhea koe, Te Orihau?

    Yeah, you still want to keep it alive. That’s beautiful. How about you, Te Orihau?

    Mai i te wharekura i, i au i te wharekura tonu i tonoa mai e Kahurangi ki a mātou ngā tauira kia hāereere ki tā rātou taha ki Kānata. Nā mātou te whiwhi i tērā ō ngā haerenga. Tekau mā ono pea ōku pakeke i aua wā. Koirā, me kī whakangahau ai ki ngā tūruhi o reira.

    While I was in wharekura, Kahurangi requested some of the students to travel with them to Canada. So we were lucky to be able to go. I was 16 at the time. We would perform to the tourists over there.

    I pēhea tērā?

    What was that like?

    He-

    That was-

    Kahurangi, me te hāereere i te ao.

    Kahurangi, traveling the world.

    Nā reira i kōwhiria koe?

    So, you got picked?

    I kōwhiria mātou. Tokotoru mātou nō tō mātou kura i kōwhirihia i tētahi puna kura. Ko Te Aute tētahi o ngā kura i te puna, ko Hukarere anō hoki, anā, ko Havelock tonu. Ko ngā kura o Heretaunga-

    We got picked. Three of us from our kura got picked amongst the other kura. So, Te Aute was amongst that, Hukarere was amongst that the amongst that too, and I think there was a Havelock. Kura from around Heretaunga-

    Havelock.

    Havelock.

    Āe, Havelock High. I kōwhiria mātou i te 20 pea, e tekau ngā tūranga ki ngā tauira kia tāpoi tahi me Kahurangi ki Kānata. I whakaatu mātou i ngā waiata nā Tama Huata i whakariterite mai, e rua hāora te roa. Koirā pea taku tū tuatahi i roto i ngā mahi whakaari. 

    Yeah, Havelock, Havelock High. We got picked out of, I think 20, there was probably 10 spots for the students to go on tour with Kahurangi in Canada, where we done a showcase that Tama Huata had put together, a two-hour show, and that was sort of like my first, not adult, but amongst adult sort of theater side of things.

    Yeah, from the Kura Kaupapa, kātahi ka hono atu ahau ki Kahurangi i muri i te wharekura mō ētahi tau. I hāereere ahau ki Amerika, ki Tairana, ki Mareihia, ki ētahi whenua.

    Yeah, mai i Te Kura Kaupapa and then, when I. Oh, sorry, then I joined Kahurangi after wharekura for a couple of years, and got to tour around America, Thailand, Malaysia, just a few countries.

    Ki ētahi whenua noa.

    Just a few countries,

    Āe, ki ētahi whenua noa iho.

    Yeah, just a few countries.

    Lee:

    Hei āpiti hoki, i ahau ka titiro ki Kahurangi, koirā pea taku wheako me taku kitenga tuatahi e taea ana te kapa haka hei mahi, e hāereere ai koe i te ao me te mahi i tāu e kaingākau nei, arā, ko te kapa haka. Nā Kahurangi tērā ara i whakawātea mai me ngā āheitanga ka hua ake i te kapa haka mō te tangata e piki ana i te wharekura ki Kahurangi. Taku mōhio, koirā anake pea te wāhi ā-whare wānanga nei ki te mahi kapa haka.

    Lee:

    Probably just on that point, I guess from a person's looking into Kahurangi, that was my first kind of experience, seeing something that you could turn kapa haka into a mahi, and you can travel the world doing what you love, which is kapa haka, and Kahurangi provided that pathway or provided that insight into what kapa haka can provide for a person coming from wharekura going into Kahurangi, which I believe at the time or your time, was probably the only type of tertiary learning position or space that you could go to kapa haka.

     

    E waimarie ana tātou ā mohoa nei i te BMPA me te tini o ngā kaupapa whakahaere nei i ngā mahi, heoi anō, me mihi ka tika ki Kahurangi i te mea ko ahau i, “O, he mahi tēnei. O, ka āhei te hāereere i te ao, ki ngā wāhi i whakahuatia e koe,” anā, ka whai wāhi te taiohi Māori ki aua momo wheako. Arā noa atu ngā hua.

    We're fortunate this day and age with BMPA and continuing, te tini o ngā kaupapa whakahaere nei i ngā mahi but, but yeah, me mihi ka tika ki Kahurangi because that for me was like, "Oh, you can actually get a mahi. Oh, you can actually travel the world, go to all those places you just named," and for a young Māori person to be able to experience that, I think the benefits is just out of this world.

    Āe. Āe. Āe. Nā reira, Kahurangi, āe, kia kōrero tātou mō Kahurangi. He whare whakaari haka rongonui rātou. Whakamahia ai e rātou ngā kātū o te ao whakaari.

     

    I pēhea tērā, te hanumi i te haka ki te whakaari, te hanumi i te haka ki te whakatautau, te hanumi i te haka ki ngā puoro e tangi mai ana, ā, e waiata ana koe ki ngā taki huhua. I pēhea tērā, Te Orihau?

    Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Kahurangi, yeah, let's talk a little bit about Kahurangi. They're well known for haka theater and using the genres with that derived from theater.

     

    What was that like, mixing haka with drama, mixing haka with acting, mixing haka with music playing at the background while you're singing to the different beats. What was that like, Te Orihau?

    Ehara i te mea i tauhou, engari i waia ahau ki te 40 tāngata i te atamira e tū tahi ana ki a koe. Kātahi ka uru atu ki Kahurangi, e 10 noa iho, ā, e tangi mai ana ngā puoro taunaki, kua ako kē mātou i ngā reo tautoko, ka pēnei ahau, ka “He aha kē tēnei? Kei tua o tāwauwau tēnei.”

    I felt, not out of place, just so used to having 40 on the stage with you, and then jumping into Kahurangi, and there's 10 with a backing track, and we've done the vocals, and then I'm like, "What's going on? This is so hard out.”

    I tuwhera ai hoki ōku karu nā te nui o te whare whakaari, e 18, 19 noa iho aku tau i taua wā, ka mutu, me mōhio tika ahau ki taku tinana. Heoi anō te kapa haka, he momo tū me whai, kei te mahi noa koe i te eke, i ngā momo waiata rānei, kātahi ka heke. Engari anō i konei, ka oma ki te atamira, ka mahia ngā mahi, kātahi ka oma atu.

    And then, just being in a theater was a big, huge eyeopener for how old I was, like 18, 19 at the time, and having to physically know my body, whereas kapa haka, you have a certain stance, like you're just doing the eke or you're doing all the items and then you're off, but here you run on, do your little thing, and then run off.

    Āe, me te whai kia waia haere ki tū ki te atamira. Me te ako i te,

    Yeah, just getting used to stage present as well. Learning all of the,

    takatū atamira.

    Stagecraft.

    Te takatū atamira me mōhio e pā ana ki tērā atu mata o te kapa haka, arā, ko te haka whakaari.

    Stagecraft that there is to know about the other side of kapa haka, which is haka theater.

    I rawe te wheako, he nui ngā akoranga. Ko Tama Huata te Tumu Whakarae i taua wā. I pākaha mai ia, ahakoa tō mātou tamarikitanga, i kōhete nuitia mātou. I hamahamahia mātou.

    It was an awesome experience, learnt so much while Tama was our CEO at the time, Tama Huata. He was very stern on us, making sure that even though we were so young, we still got the big growling’s. We still got the big telling offs.

    Te whakaraupapa.

    Discipline.

    Āe, i nui te whakaraupapa. He tangata whakaraupapa ia, heoi anō, he nui ngā akoranga. Anā, ka tae ki te wā i tū ai ahau ki te atamira o te Matatini, i whai kē ahau i aua-

    Yeah, it's very disciplined. He was very disciplined, but yeah, learnt so much, and then when it came to time for me to stand on the Matatini stage again, I already had that-

    Wheako?

    Experience?

     

    … ngā wheako ki te takatū atamira, nā reira i mōhio ahau koinei te atamira mauī, koinei te atamira waenga, matau, ērā āhuatanga katoa, āe. He āwhina anō ērā i roto i aku mahi kapa haka.

    ... that experience with stagecraft, so I knew that this is the left stage, this is center stage, right, and then all of that and then, yeah, it just helped me even more with kapa haka, with my stand with kapa haka.

    Inā te whanaketanga o te kapa haka, nē? Ināianei kua whakaaro tātou ki te atamira mauī, e huri ana tō upoko ki hea, e whakaeke ana i tēhea taha, ringa ki runga, upoko ki runga, te poho kia kererū, he whakamīharotanga tērā i roto i ēnei mahi.

     

    Me i hoki tātou ki ngā tau 50, i te wā o Tamararo, ki ngā tau 70 rānei, i te wā o Te Matatini, me i whai ērā āhuatanga katoa. Kua kore pea i whanake ki te āhuatanga o nāianei. Whakaarohia ngā āheitanga. Kua huri te ao, nē? Waihīrere, ka whakaeke, ka waiata i a Aue Te Atua i te kokonga o te atamira ki mua. Ināianei, katoa tātou ka oma, ka kōpere, ka whakahoki i ngā pūtātara, ka hoki ki te rārangi.

    How kapa haka has evolved, eh? Now we worry about stage left, where's your head going, which way are you walking on, hands down, head up, chest out, and which is quite amazing for our art form.

     

    If our old people, if we went back in the '50s, when Tamararo was around, or into the '70s, when Te Matatini was around, and they have all of that. I'm not sure we would have come to where we are now. Just imagine how far we would've got to. Times have changed, eh? Wahirere, walking on, singing Aue Te Atua just from the corner of the stage to the front, to now all of us running, sprinting, taking pūtātara back, running back into line.

    Te Orihau:

    Āe, he whakaeke rima miniti te roa.

    Te Orihau:

    Yeah, five minute eke.

    Lee:

    Āe, ka kite koe i ētahi o ngā whakakotahitanga nō reira ki te kapa haka, ki tāu i kōrero ai, kapa haka taketake mai, kapa haka hou mai.

    Lee:

    Yeah, and you can see some of the synergies particularly from there to kapa haka, to what you were talking about, whether it's more traditional kapa haka versus contemporary kapa haka.

    Āe, me tō tauira o te whakaeke whakaeke, ki runga i te atamira. Ka hīkoi koe ki te atamira-

    Yeah, the example you gave of whakaeke was that it was entering onto the stage. You walked on the stage-

    Koinā.

    Exactly.

    Lee:

    Manohi anō, ā mohoa nei he nui ngā taumata ki te whakaeke, he tainekenke, waihoki, he wāhanga pūmau o te hōtaka waiata. Ehara i te mea kei te hīkoi noa iho koe ki te atamira. Ināianei he āhuatanga e tahuri mai ai te tangata, pēnei i te whakawātea. Ehara i te mea kei te whakawātea koe i te papa, kei taumata kē atu, kei te whakawātea, te papa.

    Lee:

    Whereas if you see today, whakaeke has so many levels and it's so dynamic, and it is a real core part of the bracket now. It's not just walking onto the stage. It's kind of almost become a real show-stopping piece, very similar to te whakawātea. It's no longer just clearing the stage, its full on your gonna, clear the stage.

    Kia tōaitia te kōrero, nā ngā tainekeneke me ngā whakaawenga o te whakaari auaha, ngā toi. Kei taumata kē atu ngā mahi ināianei.

    And again, it's just through the dynamics and many influences through the creative theater, arts, that I guess we see today is just full on.

    Āe, kua whanake ngā mahi haka.

    Yeah, yep, we have evolved into our haka.

    Te Orihau:

    Āe, ki ahau nei, ko ia kapa ka tū, ka whakamātau i ngā taiapa. Ka paku whakamātau atu.

    Te Orihau:

    Yeah, and I feel like each kapa every year is trying to up, not up each other, but just try to push it just a little bit further, just a little bit more further.

    Engari me pērā, nē?

    Well, I think we have too though, eh?

    Tika, me pērā.

    We do, yeah.

    Me tino pērā e ai ki ngā akoranga a ngā kaumātua. Kāore koe e pīrangi kia ōrite tonu ngā mahi.

    Especially with our teachings from our kaumātua's. You don't want to be the same as what you done last time

    Kāo, kāo.

    No, no.

    Me whai kia pai ake, me piki te taumata. Me piki kia kaua ētahi atu e pā ki a koe, he uaua tērā i ētahi wā.

    You want to be better and you want to raise the bar. You want to raise it high enough so that others can't catch you, which I think is quite harsh at times.

    Lee:

    Āe, kātahi ka hua mai he wāhi ki te tipu, ki te whakawhanake anō hoki mēnā koe ka whai kia pai ake i te tau i mua mai. Engari mōku ake, me noho tonu ngā āhuatanga tūāpapa e kīia ai he kapa haka.

    Lee:

    Yes, and I guess that does create space to grow and develop, if you're always trying to do better than you were the last year. But I guess for me, so long as there are core fundamentals that remain which make it kapa haka.

    Nē, ka kōrero tātou mō te wāhi ki te reo, he tino taonga te reo Māori, koinei tonu ngā āhuatanga motuhake o te ahurea Māori, ko te kapa haka, e kore tērā e panoni. Ko te tūmanako me te wawata e kore tērā e panoni.

    And you know, we talk about te reo in that space, tino taonga te reo Māori, and these are things that make it purely and uniquely Māori culture, kapa haka, and I don't think that would ever change. Well, I would hope and wish that those things would never change.

    Tērā ētahi āhuatanga e taea ana te whakawhanake ake, heoi anō, ko ētahi āhuatanga me noho pūmau.

    There are rooms to develop, but there are things that need to remain constant.

    Me pūmau, āe. Āe. Nā reira kia hoki tātou ki te kōrero mō te tū ki ngā kapa pakeke, Te Orihau, ko wai ētahi tīma kua tū nei koe?

    Remain, yeah. Yeah. So, if we go back to performing in adult teams, Te Orihau, who have been some of the teams that you have performed with?

    Ko taku kapa tuatahi ko Te Rerenga Kōtuku, nō Te Wairoa. Nōku i reira, i reira hoki a Elliot Spooner rāua ko Sheri. 2009 taku tū tuatahi me rātou, anā i te tau 20-

    So, my first kapa was Te Rerenga Kōtuku, nō Te Wairoa. At the time I was in there, but we had Elliot Spooner and also Sheri, and 2009 was my first stand with them, and then in the year 20-

    16?

    16?

    ’16 ki Ōtautahi? ’15?

    '16, is that Christchurch? '15?

    O āe.

    Oh yeah.

    Nō mātou ko Mahina Harawira Huata, ko Raiha Huata, ko Wairakei Huata te whakaaro kia karangahia te wharekura katoa me ngā raukura o Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga kia hono mai ki tētahi kapa, ā, kia hanga i tētahi kapa.

    2014, myself, Mahina, Harawire Huata, Raiha Huata, and Wairakei Huata, decided to call on to all of the wharekura, raukura that came through Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga to join a kapa, oh to create a kapa.

    Nā te mea kāore he kapa i Heretaunga i taua wā. Katoa ngā kapa o konei nō Wairoa me Tamatea, he tīma hoki nō Ahuriri, engari kāore he tangata e haka ana mā Heretaunga. Kāore he kapa nō Heretaunga.

    Because we did at the time, there wasn't a kapa here in Heretaunga. All the kapa that were here at the time were Wairoa and Tamatea, were pretty much the teams and then Napier had teams as well, but there was no one doing haka for Heretaunga, or yeah, a group for Heretaunga.

    Kia ora.

    Right.

    Kua tū he kapa i ngā rā o mua, heoi anō, āe. I taua wā i whakaaro mātou he whakaaro koi tēnā ki te āmi anō i a mātou, kātahi ka tukuna hoki te tono ki ētahi atu wharekura, raukura hoki nō Heretaunga.

    We've had groups in the past, but then they sort of, yeah. But yeah, at the time we thought it was a very smart idea to get all of us back together, and then we also opened it up to other wharekura, raukura, within Heretaunga.

    He rawe tēnā. Nā reira he aha ngā pūkenga i ākona i Te Rerenga Kōtuku i āhei ai koe te whakatū i a Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga?

    Well, that's pretty cool. So, what skills do you think you learned in Te Rerenga Kōtuku, that allowed you to establish Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga?

    Te Orihau:

    Nā Elliot ahau i ako ki te mau rākau me te mau patu, tae ana ki tana tāera tū.

    Te Orihau:

    Through Elliot, I learnt a lot of rākau, and patu from Elliot, and also his stance that he had.

    I kaha ia ki te whakangungu i ngā tama, ngā tāne i te wāhi ki te tū. Ko tāna, he tūpana.

    He made sure to really drill the boys, the men, and all of the, when it came to stance, he had little flicks.

    He tūpana.

    Flicks.

    Āe, i pai ki a ia ngā punua tūpana. Nā reira i mate mātou ki te whakangungu, whakangungu, whakangungu. I aro nui ia ki te 10% o ngā mahi e eke ai ki te 100. He rite tonu tana kī mai, “Me aro ki ngā 10%. Me mau ngā 10% kia hapakore ai.”

    Yeah, he loved his little flicks. So he always had to practice, practice, practice, and he always made sure that it was the 10% that we were doing to make it a hundred. He always commented that, "It's all the 10% is. You have to get those 10 percenters, just to make it perfect."

    Āe. Mīharo.

    Yeah. Wow.

    Āe, he nui ngā whakaakoranga mai a Elliot.

    Yeah, learnt so much from Elliot.

    Nā reira he aha te wāhi ki a koe i roto i te tīma? He aha tō ara? He aha ngā āhuatanga hei manaaki māu?

    So, what would you say your role is in the team then? What is your lane? What do you look after in the team?

    I te kapa, i te wā nei? Ko ngā kākahu ki a au, nā te mea he kaituitui ahau, he ringa rehe, waihoki, ka manaaki ahau i ngā āhuatanga o te tū me ngā mahi ā-ringa.

    In the team, currently? I am kākahu, because I am a sewer, a maker, and I am stance and also actions.

    Mīharo. Taihoa ngā kōrero kākahu. Lee, he aha te wāhi ki a koe i Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga? I paku kōrerohia tērā i mua.

    Wow. We'll come back to kākahu. Lee, what's your role in Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga. We spoke a little bit about it earlier.

    Ko au te hiamana o te kapa.

    I’m the chairperson of the team.

    Pai.

    Cool.

    Nā reira ko te tikanga o tērā ko ahau kei te manaaki i ngā whakahaere, me te hautū i te kapa. Kāore ahau e whai wāhi ki te whakaako i te tū me ngā mahi auaha. He kaitito ahau, nā reira taha ki te reo, tētahi mahi kua riro māku.

    So really, I guess what that means is that I look after logistics and operations, and the management of the kapa, so not fully involved in the delivery of the stance and the creative side. I am a composer, so one of my roles has been looking after the language.

    Āe rā kei te tīma auaha koe. He kaitito koe.

    Well, you are part of the creative team. You compose.

    Āe, āe. Nā reira koirā pea taku ara. Kei te mārama ahau ki taku ara, ā, ko tētahi āhuatanga o te mahi tahi ki Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga, ka mōhiotia tēnei e ngā kaitātaki o ngā kapa katoa, ko te nui o ngā haukiri, me ngā āhuatanga waiwaiā i tō mātou whānau me āta whakahaere i runga i te ngākau me te hinengaro tuwhera. He wāhanga matua tēnā ka aro nui atu ahau e toitū ai te kaupapa. Ki te tutū te puehu, e kore e tutuki te kaupapa nā reira kia tau,

    Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, that's probably my lane. I understand my lane, and something that is part of us working alongside with Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga is that there are, and probably any leader of any kapa will no this,that there are many personalities, many beautiful characteristics within our whānau that we need to manage with an open heart and an open mind. And that is probably a key area that I try to ensure that this kaupapa is going to be sustainable. If we are going to have a big blow out and have a big fight, then that's not going to have, that's not going to have no kaupapa, so let's just calm the farm, 

    e te iwi. He aha anō te pae tawhiti, ka hoki anō ki aku kōrero kia whanake mai te kura. Kia whanake mai ngā kaihaka o te kāinga, mai i ā tātou tamariki, mokopuna. Tae noa ki ngā pakeke.

    What’s the long-term goal, I go back to “Kia whanake mai te kura.” That is developing the performers of home, from our children right through to the elders.

    He wā ōna he nui ake i a mātou, he uaua tērā, i te mea ka kāpō mātou i ngā āhuatanga ka kitea i ia rā me ngā whai wāhitanga o ia rā.

    So, it's bigger than our personalities at times, but that can be really hard, because we're blinded by what we see every day and what we engage with every day.

    Ka raru rānei mātou i tētahi punua āhuatanga i puku ai te rae.

    Or we're triggered by that little thing that's pissed us off.

    Koina āku mahi mō te kapa.

    That’s my role within the kapa.

    Āe. mahi tahi ā whānau nei? He aha i hirahira ai te mahi tahi ki te whakatutuki i te whāinga i roto i te kapa haka, ehara i te mea kei te atamira anake, nē?

    Yeah. But how important is it to work together as a family? Why is it important for us to work together to be able to achieve our outcome through kapa haka, because it's not always on stage, is it?

    Lee:

    Kāo, kāo. Ko te nuinga o te pakanga kei tua o te atamira. Anā, te whakarite me te whakatika ki te tū, wāwau ana. Kei te whakaaro pea te hunga kapa haka-kore he rorirori mātou nā te nui o te kaha me te wā ka whakapaua e ia kaihaka mō te tū kotahi, 30 miniti te roa.

    Lee:

    No, no. I think most of the battle is probably off stage actually. So, the lead up and all the mahi that takes to get actually on performance, it's crazy, and a lot of the people that don't do kapa haka think we're probably insane about the amount of effort and the amount of time that each kaihaka and each leader gives to one 30-minute performance.

    Ko te aroha tērā mō te iwi. Ko te aroha tērā mō te whānau tētahi ki tētahi. 

    That’s the love for your people. That’s the love of whānau to one another.

    Nā, ahakoa ngā komekome me ngā tohe, i te mutunga iho, kei konei tonu mātou, e whakapau ana i te wā, kāore tētahi e utua, hāunga pea ngā mema o Kahurangi, engari anō mātou. Āē, 

    So even though we might bicker and argue, at the end of the day, we're still here, we're still committing our time, nobody's getting paid, well Kahurangi members might be, but we are not. But yeah, so it's 

    mō te kaupapa, mō te aroha o te iwi, mō te aroha o ēnei mahi. Tēnēi taonga whakamirimiri.

    it’s for the cause, for the love for the people, and for the love of these pursuits. This absolute treasure.

    Tika hoki. Kia hoki tātou ki te kōrero kākahu, he aha i hirahira ai te tiaki i ō tātou kākahu?

    Hard out. If we go back to kākahu, why is it important to look after our kākahu?

    He mea nui te tiaki i ō tātou kākahu kia mauroa ai. Koirā tētahi o ngā mea nui. Kua tū he wānanga piupiu i roto i a mātou kia ako ki te here tika. Me te tiaki i ō rawa.

    I think it's very important to look after our kākaku just so that it lasts. That's one of the most important things. We've even had piupiu wānanga on how to tie it, tie it properly. How to look after your stuff.

    Ka pēhea te hunga nā rātou ngā kākahu i whatu? Mā te kaihaka anō e whatu ngā pari, ngā tātua, ngā piupiu?

    And what about the people that make it? Does everyone make their own bodice, their own tātua, their own piupiu?

    Te Orihau:

    Taha ki te pare me te tātua, āe mā ia o ā mātou e hanga.

    Te Orihau:

    Yes, each performer makes their own bodice and belt.

    Lee:

    Koia pea te ātaahuatanga o te mahi kapa haka, ko te titiro ki tua atu o te tū noa iho, he nui ngā mātauranga Māori, ka tino pērā i te wāhi ki ngā kākahu. Te mahi i te piupiu, ehara i te mea ka hua noa ake te piupiu. He hātepe roa ka whāia ki te hanga mai i ēnei piupiu ātaahua.

    Lee:

    And that's probably a beauty of doing kapa hakas is that you get to look beyond just the stand, and there is a lot of mātauranga Māori particularly when we look at kākahu. In terms of the piupiu, they don't just make themselves, and there is a long, drawn-out process as to how we create these beautiful piupiu.

    Me ngā maro. Āe, koirā hoki ētahi o ngā akoranga, me te tō mai i ērā ki ō mātou nā ao.

    These maro. So yeah, I guess that is a part of the teaching as well, is how we can bring taonga back into our lives.

    Āe. Me ngā whakakai hoki? Me ngā taonga.

    Yep. Whakakai too, eh? There's taonga, too.

    Whakakai.

    Adornments.

    Ngā whakakai. He aha te hiranga o te tiaki i ērā? I te mea nā ētahi atu i whakairo ake, māna, nāu anō i hanga.

     

    Rawe. He aha ngā tikanga kākahu? Te pā ki ngā rakuraku?

    Our whakakai, and how important it is to look after it, because other people have made it for you, or you have made it for yourself.

     

    Awesome, cool. Are there any tikanga around kākahu or anything? Guitars touching guitars?

    Lee:

    Ka keka a Te Orihau nōku ka momi. Ka mea mai ia, “He kākahu kei kō.”

    Lee:

    Te Orihau always gets angry when I smoke. He's like there's kākahu there.

    Nā reira ka titiro ana tātou ki ngā tikanga, me kaua e tuku ki aua momo wāhi, heoi, kāore he aha ki ahau. Kāo, me kaua e puta tērā kōrero.

    So yeah, I guess when we look at tikanga, you don't want to put it into that space, well, kāre he aha ki ahau. No, I shouldn't say that.

    Hei āpiti ki tērā. Ngā ara. I kōrero tātou mō te hāereere i te ao. Hika, kua aua atu ngā whenua kua haere ai ahau nā te ao haka. Ka pēhea ngā ara, Lee? He aha te take i hirahira ai tēnei ara o te ao haka hei paerewa paetae, waihoki, ka whiwhi piro Tomo Whare Wānanga. Kua whai mana tēnei taonga ki ngā whare wānanga, nā reira kua whai take ia, ahakoa e pērā kē ana ō tātou whakaaro mō te hia nei tau i te mea nā tātou tonu. Ka pēhea ō tātou ara?

    So just on that. Pathways, so we spoke about traveling the world. Man, I couldn't even count how many different countries I've been to through te ao haka, but what about pathways, Lee? Why is this such an important pathway, te ao haka finally being an achievement standard that it's credited through University Entrance, accredited by our universities now, our art form, means it matters now, even though it's mattered to us for many years, because it's us. What about our pathways?

    Lee:

    Ki ahau nei, kua tae te wā, ki te titiro whānui tātou ki te marautanga, e whāiti ana ngā kaupapa ako ka kitea i te marautanga e uru ai ā tātou tauira, ā tātou ākonga ki te Whare Wānanga ki te whai tonu i te mātauranga. Ka tino pērā mō ā tātou tamariki, mokopuna ka tōnui, ka kaingākau ki te kapa haka. Mā tēnei e whai wāhi ai rātou ki te ara anamata ki te ako tonu. Āe, kua roa tēnā e tāria ana. Kua tae te wā. 2022, e noho nei tātou,

    Lee:

    I think, it’s about time and if we look at the curriculum broadly, and I think the amount of subjects that you find in the curriculum that enable our tauira, our ākonga to gain University Entrance to pursue further education. There is limitations there, and particularly for our tamariki, mokopuna, who thrive and are so passionate about kapa haka, this enables them and allows them that future pathway to carry on their studies. And yeah, I think that it's been long overdue. I think it is about time. 2022, we’re in now,

    kaitoa kua whai kaupapa i tua atu i te reo Māori me ōna tikanga, e whakatinana ana, e kī ana hoki i te mātauranga Māori. Kei te kite atu e nui haere ana tērā, me te tika hoki. Rawe. Engari ka whakaū tēnei ki ā tātou tamariki he kaupapa whai mana.

    and finally, we have another kaupapa that sits outside of te reo Māori me ōna tikanga, that is embodied and that is made up of mātauranga Māori. And we're seeing a lot more that happen now, which is about time. Great. But I think this really reinforces for our tamariki that this is a auspicious initiative.

    I runga i te korenga i te rārangi Tomo Whare Wānanga, ka whakaaro, o he kaupapa āpiti noa iho tērā. E kore koe e kairangi mā te whai i taua kaupapa.

    Seeing not on the University Entrance list, oh, it's just a side thing. You're not going to get to further education or further excellence by doing that subject.

    Kua roa tātou e pērā ana. 

    We’ve been like that for ages.

    Nā reira e hiamo ana i tēnei ara o te ao haka me te whakaurunga ōna ki ngā kura, me te whakarite ara mā te hunga e tika ana te whare wānanga mō rātou, ki te whakamahi i aua piro e whai ai rātou i te Tomokanga Whare Wānanga ka hiahiatia.

    So, I am excited for this opportunity for te ao haka to be implemented through our kura, and to provide our ākonga who decide that university is their pathway, that they have this opportunity to use this as those credits, to be able to gain the University Entrance that they need.

    He pūkenga whakawhitiwhiti?

    Transferable skills?

    Lee:

    Tika rawa atu. He nui ngā pūkenga whakawhitiwhiti ka hua ake i te kapa haka. Ehara i te tū noa iho, engari ko te āheinga ki te manaaki tangata, whakawhanaunga, te hoki anō ki ō kāinga kia purea ai koe e ngā hau nā, i aua pūkenga whakawhitiwhiti ka hua ake he tangata. Ka mōhio rātou, ka mārama rātou ki ngā kōrero o their kāinga.

    Lee:

    Totally. There are many transferable skills that come out of kapa haka. Not only is it just the performance, it's the ability to look after people, make relationships, returning to your homelands so that you may be blown by the winds and those transferable skills create a person, and for them to be able to go and understand the local stories.

    Kei te mōhio rātou ki hea kitea ai he rau kawakawa. Kei te mōhio rātou ki hea hopukina ai he tuna. Kei te mōhio rātou ki ngā wāhi hī ika.

    They know where to go get a kawakawa leaf. They know where to go get a eel. They know where to go and, you know, their fishing grounds.

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    Ko ēnei kōrero katoa.

    All of these sorts of lessons.

    E taea ana te whakawhiti ki tō ao, anā, koirā te whakahokitanga ki te marae. Koirā te whakahokitanga ki tō iwi, ko tō āheinga ki te whakawhiti i ēnei mātauranga ātaahua e ākona ana i roto i ngā waiata, ngā mōteatea, ngā haka, hei tuku atu māu ki ngā reanga o te anamata.

     You are able to transfer it into life, and I think that is the give back to the marae. That is the give back to your iwi, that you can transfer all this beautiful mātauranga that you're learning through these waiata, mōteatea, haka, that are actually going to be able to gift it back to future generations.

    Āe. Āe. He pūkenga whakawhitiwhiti. Tae ana ki te āhua o tā ngā tamariki karawhiu i ēnei waiata ki hea, ki hea, ki hea. Ko ā mātou tamariki nohinohi i ngā whakaharatau kei te omaoma haere i ngā rārangi, ka kapohia te rangi, anā, kua mau. Me ngā pakeke huri i te motu e ako ana i ētahi atu waiata kapa haka. Mea rawa ake, he pāti rakuraku wetiweti tāu.

    Yeah, yeah. Transferable skills. Even within the way that our kids sing these songs everywhere, our tamariki nohinohi at practices, running through the rows, pick up the tune, and then they've got it, and then pakeke all across the motu, learning other kapa haka songs. And then next minute, you've got a mean guitar party.

    Lee:

    E mea ana koe. Nā reira kia mihi ahau i tō tātou koroua, i a Pāpā Tīmoti i ēnei mahi nei. Ka whakaaro ana ahau ki a Waimārama me te huarahi kua takahia e Waimārama, māna tonu tēnei kōrero e tautoko,

    Lee:

    Tell me about it. And actually, I want to acknowledge tō tātou koroua a Pāpā Tīmoti in this space. So, when I reflect on Waimārama, and the journey Waimārama has been on, I'm sure he will attest to this that

    Waimārama ngoikore, koretake mō ngā mahi haka, and i te tāmate haere te reo o te kāinga, 

    Waimārama is hopeless and lackluster at haka, the local dialect was dying out,

    kei te hia mihi ahau ki a Tīmoti i āna titonga i pupuri nei i ō mātou hītori me ō mātou whakapapa kia kore ai e ngaro.

    and I want to acknowledge Tīmoti, because of the compositions that he produced to ensure that our hītori, our whakapapa was never lost.

    Nā reira ka whakaaro ake ahau ki tētahi mōteatea, E Pare e Timu, ko tērā mōteatea katoa katoa mai ngā tūtohu whenua o Waimārama and ko tēnei mōteatea he taonga tuku iho mō ngā whakareanga kei te haere mai, ka ū tonu, ka mau tonu ki ngā kōrero o te kāinga.

    So, if I think of a mōteatea, that is E Pari, E Timu, that talks about all of the landmarks of Waimārama and this mōteatea is a treasure to be handed down to the younger generations so that they are able to hold on to the local stories.

    Mei kore ake te hunga pēnei i a Tīmoti i ora tonu ai aua kōrero, i kore ai e ngaro.

    So yeah, very fortunate to have people like Tīmoti, who are composing for that reason, to ensure that those stories maintain and are not lost.

    Āe, rawe. Hei whakakōpani ake, ka kōrero tū tātou. He aha te tū a Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga i Kahungunu? He aha te momo takahi, wiri?

    Yeah, cool. We're going to wrap it up around stance. What is Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga's stance within Kahungunu. Do we do the, what type of takahi, wiri?

    Te Orihau:

    I 2019, i whakahou mātou, kāo, i tirotiro anō mātou i a Tika Tonu.

    Te Orihau:

    In 2019 we revamped, not revamped. We revisited Tika Tonu.

    Lee:

    He nui ā mātou mahi rangahau i te kaupapa rā. Kua horapa tērā haka o Tika Tonu ki te motu whānui. Mōhio koe ki a Tika Tonu. Katoa ka mōhio.

    Lee:

    We did a lot of rangahau in that space. That Tika Tonu Haka has spread to the entire country. You know Tika Tonu. Everybody knows

    Tika Tonu, but kei te mōhio rātou ki te haka o Tika Tonu? Koirā te pātai i ahau, nā runga i te tini o ngā mahi ā-ringa, nā runga i te tini o ngā pikinga ō te reo. Me te tō mai i ngā kupu, kāre e tapatahi nei. Nā reira ko te haka,

    Tika Tonu, but do they know the haka that is Tika Tonu? That’s my question, because of all the actions and the different pitches. And bringing in the words, it’s not done as one. So, the haka,

    nō tēhea tau?

    what year was it?

    Te Orihau:

    taku mōhio ko te 2017.

    Te Orihau:

    I think it was 2017.

    Lee:

    Tērā tau, ko te tō mai i a Tika Tonu ki te ao mārama me te mārama ake he aha te tū o te kapa nei, he aha te tū o Tika Tonu,

    Lee:

    That year, was to try and bring Tika Tonu into light and to understand what the stance of this team is, what the Tika Tonu stance is.

    I te mea, ki te titiro tātou ki ngā haka i titoa e ō tātou kaumātua, koirā te momo tū e whai ana mātou. Koirā te tū me te wiri, me te tō mai i tērā ki te kapa.

    Because if we look at those haka that were composed by our elders, that's the stance in which we're trying to follow. That is the stance and the wiri, we are trying to bring into the kapa.

    Nā reira i nui ā mātou mahi rangahau, i puta atu ki ngā taniwha o te motu nei kia mārama ai ki te haka nei. He nui ngā kōrero i puta i tērā. Ko te takahi tētahi, ko te kore e hiki i te wae i te papa hoki. Nā reira ka ū tonu engari kāore e hiki i tō wae i te papa.

    So, we did a whole bunch of rangahau puta atu ki ngā taniwha o te motu nei, to try and understand it. So, there was a bunch of points that came out of that. Takahi being one, that we don't lift our foot off the ground. So, it maintains like the, without actually moving your foot off the ground.

    Kia ora.

    Right.

    Lee:

    Koirā tētahi o ngā āhuatanga i hua ake. Wiri?

    Lee:

    That was one thing that come from that. Wiri?

    Te Orihau:

    I pai noa iho te wiri.

    Te Orihau:

    I think the wiri was fine.

    Lee:

    I pai tonu te wiri.

    Lee:

    Wiri was fine.

    Te Orihau:

    Te taki.

    Te Orihau:

    The taki.

    Lee:

    Ae. He mea nui te taki o te haka. 

    Lee:

    The beat of the haka is very important. 

    Taku mōhio ka kōrerohia tēnei e Whaea Ngātai Huata i tana, o, kua wareware i a au ngā kupu kaupapa. Engari ko te taki o te tengitengi, nē, koirā hoki te taki me whai i Tika Tonu.

    I think Whaea Ngātai Huata actually talks about this quite well in her, oh, I forget the technical terms on it. But it's the beat of the waltz, nē, and that's the beat that Tika Tonu needs to be followed in.

    Nā reira ka hīkaka ana tātou, ka rongo i te mauri o te kaupapa, ana ka pīrangi tukuna te katoa. Mō te hemo tonu atu, kātahi ka tere ake te haka, kāre e ū ki te taki e tika ana. Ka ngaro,

    So, when we all get hīkaka, and we are very fueled by whatever kaupapa might be going on, and we just want to give it everything. Just going to smash it out, and then, the haka gets faster and then the beat isn’t right. It’s lost.

    Koirā ngā āhuatanga e ngana ana mātou ki te tō mai ki te ao marama, heoi, atu i tēnā, he aha anō. Ko ētahi o ngā titonga puoro pea.

    So, there's those things that we are trying to bring to light, but atū i tēnā, he aha anō. Probably some of the musical compositions.

    Ko te tāera puoro pea, kei te rongo ahau i tētahi waiata nā Tūhoe, anā, kei te mōhio ahau he Tūhoe rātou, nā runga i te momo o te waiata.

    So, I guess the style of music is. I can hear a Tūhoe waiata, and I kind of know that they are Tūhoe, because they've got a type of specific music style.

    Ka whakaaro ahau ki a Kahungunu, me pēhea te kōrero?

    And if I reflect on Kahungunu, I reflect on a more of a, how would you say it?

    Amaru?

    Solemn?

    Kāo, he taki tere.

    No, actually probably more of a upbeat kind of a one.

    O āe. Pēnei i a E Pari?

    Oh yeah. Like, E Pare?

    Lee:

    Āe. Nā, kia waiho ngā kōrero mō te mōteatea. Ka whakaaro ahau ki ngā waiata, ina koa, ērā a Tommy Taurima. Me ngā whakaawenga o tōna ao i tōia mai e ia i ō tātou whanaunga o Te-Moana-Nui-A-Kiwa, me ngā hononga i waenga i a tātou. 

    Lee:

    Yeah. Well, moving away from the mōteatea I think of waiata, particularly waiata from Tommy Taurima. And the influences that Tommy has brought into from his own life over from our relations of the Pacific Ocean and those connections between us all.

    Ko Kōtiro Māori pea te waiata matua i Kahungunu nei, nā, ka hua ake i tērā tētahi tāera, tētahi momo waiata. Ko Waiatatia pea te waiata a ngā whanaunga i Porangahau.

    Kōtiro Māori is probably our anthem here at Kahungunu, and I guess that creates a type of style or type of waiata, and I think of Waiatatia from our whānau over in Porangahau.

    Tūtira Mai Ngā Iwi, nē, aua momo waiata, nā reira ka huritao ana ahau ki tērā, ka rere ōku whakaaro ki aua momo.

    Tūtira Mai Ngā Iwi, you know, those types of styles of waiata, so when I reflect on that, yeah, my mind goes there.

    Āe. Kia ngākau nui mai, i huritao ahua ki a Koro Tom, nē.

    Yes. Sorry, just reflected on Koro Tom aye.

    Te Orihau:

    Tāua tahi.

    Te Orihau:

    Same.

    Lee:

    He tangata whakaweawe. He tino toki ia mō Ngāti Kahungunu i te wā i a ia, nē? Waihoki,

    Lee:

    Well, he was so influential. He was such a stalwart for Ngāti Kahungunu in his time, you know? And

     i ū ki tāna e pai nei, ko tana irāmutu, tana mokopuna rānei?

    he was held firm to what he liked, so I think his, is it his niece or mokopuna?

    Te Orihau:

    Yeah, irāmutu.

    Te Orihau:

    Yeah his niece.

    Lee:

    Irāmutu, a Terina e kawea nei tonu i āna mahi. 

    Lee:

    His niece, Te Rina who carries on his legacy.

    Te Orihau:

    Āe. He nui te awenga a Tommy ki te mahi a te kapa i konei, i Ngāti Kahungunu, mai i ngā kapa marae, ki te iwi, ki ngā hapū, tae ana ki ngā pae ā-iwi anō hoki.

    Te Orihau:

    But yeah, Tommy had great influence over many of the kapa here in Ngāti Kahungunu from our marae groups, from our iwi, hapu, to probably more of a iwi forum level as well.

    Me he kupu whakamutunga āu hei whakaawe i ngā kaiako me ā tātou tamariki, he aha aua kupu? Whakaarohia, he aha ō kupu āwhina ki ā tātou tamariki e takahi ana i te ara o te ao haka? Ka timata ki a koe Te Orihau?

    If you have any last words to inspire kaiako and our tamariki out there, what would it be? You think about it, but what would your words of wisdom be for our tamariki who are embarking on a journey and a pathway throughte ao haka? We’ll start with you, Te Orihau?

    Mōku ake, i te taha o ngā kaiako kapa haka, me tino āki i te ira o te tangata. Nā ngā tauira takatāpui, whakawāhine, whakatāne me poipoia i a rātou.

    For me, in terms of the kapa haka tutors, you need to really foster gender nuances. You need to cherish those students who are gay, transgender, and so on. 

    Āe. Ko aua kōrero kua kōrero kētia. Kia haumaru ake te taiao haka e tū motuhenga ai rātou, ahakoa te rārangi e tū ai rātou, ki mua me ngā wāhine, ki muri rānei me ngā tāne.

    Yeah, what I said before, pretty much making just a safer place, making them feel safe to just be themselves, whether it's in the front lines with the women or the front lines with the boys, back rows with the boys.

    Kia noho kāinga rua te kapa haka ki a rātou. Āe.

    So that kapa haka becomes like a second home for them. Yeah.

    Ka pai ērā kōrero. Ki a koe Lee

    Love that. Over to you, Lee.

    Mātua rautia ā tātou tamariki, mokopuna, ā tātou ākonga i a rātou i te kura, kia mau tūhonohono ki ō tātou tikanga. Ki ngā taonga kua tukuna mai e ō tātou kaumātua ki a tātou o tēnei reanga nei. Engari kia māia, kia manawanui, kia kaha i roto i tō haere, i roto i a koe e takahi nei i tēnei ara. He nui ngā hua ka puta mai. Tērā pea kāre koe e kite ana i tēnei wā nei engari tēnei au e whakapono nei ki tēnei huarahi nei kua takahia e au. He nui ngā hua. Te taha ki te reo, te taha ki ngā whakawhanaungatanga, te taha ki te tuitui i ngā taura here. Koinā ētahi o ngā hua i puta i a au e mahi nei ngā mahi haka. Nā reira ko tāku ki ngā ākonga whāia ki tāu e pai ai. Whāia ki tā te ngakau e hiahia nei. Nā runga i ēnā kōrero, me mihi ki a rātou e takahi nei i tēnei ara o te ao haka. I te mea he tuatahitanga tēnei, he rerekē tēnei tau noho nei tātou i ngā tau o ō tātou pakeke, kaumātua. Nā reira, hāngaihia ngā wheako, kōrero katoa ki ngā tumanako ki ngā awhero nui ka mau i a koe, otirā i tō whānau.

    Surround our children, our grandchildren, and our students with a village while they’re at school. Holdfast to our customs and to the treasures that have been handed down by our grandparents to this generation. But be brave, be steadfast, and be strong in your journey. There are lots of benefits. There’s the language, there are relationships, there are links to be made. Those are some of the benefits I gained while I was doing kapa haka. So what I say to the students is follow what you want to follow. Follow your heart. And just on that, let me acknowledge those who are pursuing te ao haka. Because this is a first, this is different this year than what our elders and our grandparents had. So create those experiences that speak to the desires and the hopes that you and your whānau hold.

    Tēnā rā kōrua. Nō reira kei aku tungāne, kōrua e whakaaweawe nei i ngā kaiwhakarongo i tēnei kaupapa, anā, ko te ao haka. Tēnēi rā te mihi ki a kōrua i whakawātea mai i a kōrua, i runga i te karanga poto, anā, engari he karanga pai o inapō ki a kōrua tahi, mai i te ngākau tapatahi, mai i te ngākau whakaiti, ki a kōrua tahi. Tēnā rā kōrua

    Thank you both. So, my brothers, you are both big inspirations for the listeners of this podcast that is te ao haka. Here I acknowledge you both for making yourselves available with such short notice. But it was great last night inviting you both. So, I truly and humbly thank you both. Cheers.

     

    [ Accordion ]

     

    [With music playing in the background]  

    Being displayed are video images Waitangi Treaty Grounds and northland beaches. Next is a a close up of the wharf beach and the road sign for Kaikohe. Videos of monuments from the north and the whare Runanga at Waitangi Treaty Grounds then back to beaches and a close up on the carved pou. Flicking from images of carvings and beaches with sunsets. Then there is a short snippet of a mural on a street with people walking before shooting to a shot of the Mangamuka Radio station, then the welcome sign in Kaitaia and the road sign of Doubtless Bay and Bay of Islands ending with a shot of the Tino rangatiratanga flag before the final shot of Waitangi with Te Tai Tokerau title. The intro closes off with text “Te Ao Haka” accompanied by the Te Ao Haka logo. 

    Camera then focuses on Te Tuhi Mareikura demonstrating mau rakau before focusing on Te Tuhi Mareikura and his father Jobi Hopa as interview commences.

     

    Te Reo Māori

    English

    Ka nukunuku, ka nekeneke. Ka nukunuku, ka nekeneke. Titiro ki ngā tai o Tokerau e hora nei ki tua me he Pipiwharauroa, takoto te pae! Takoto te pae! Kua tae mai kōrua i tēnei rā, e mihi ana ki a kōrua kua tatū mai ki te tohaina, ki te tākoha i a kōrua mātauranga. Nō reira ka ruku tōtika ki ngā kōrero tuātahi, kōrero mai, ko wai kōrua?  Nō hea kōrua?

    You two are here today, and I acknowledge you both for being here to share and gift us your knowledge. So, let’s dive right into our first topic. Tell me who you both are and where you’re both from.

    Jobi:

    Tēnei au ka piki ngā paringa pā tūwatawata, pā maioro o Maunga Parihaka, kia kite atu i ngā hapū, i ngā maunga tapu o Whangārei Te Terenga Parāoa. Tērā tō mātou nei noho kāinga, i tēnei wā noho mātou ki roto i tō mātou māmā. Ko Parihaka te maunga, ko Hātea te awa ko Pehiāweri te marae, arā, ko Ngāti Hau te hapū, ko Ngāpuhi Nui Tonu e mihi nei. Ki tōna māmā, i te taha o tōna māmā nō roto o Ngāti Hine anō hoki tēnei engari i tipu ake mātou i te Tai Tokerau, nō Te Tai Tokerau mātou. Tēnā koe

    Jobi:

    Here I climb the fortifications of Maunga Parihaka so that I may view the sub-tribes and the sacred mountains of Whangārei Terenga Parāoa. That is where we reside now, we live on our mother’s territory. Parihaka is the mountain, Hātea is the river, Pehiāweri is the marae, Ngāti Hau is the sub-tribe, this is Ngāpuhi Nui Tonu that greets you. On his mother’s side, he is also from Ngāti Hine but we grew up in the North. We’re from the North. Greetings.

    Te Tuhi Mareikura:

    Kia ora ko Te Tuhi Māreikura (Creed) Hopa tōku ingoa. He tau tekau mā rua ahau ki Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Te Rāwhitiroa. Nō Waikato ahau. Nō Te Whare Tapu o Ngāpuhi ahau. Āe, tēnā koutou.

    Te Tuhi Mareikura:

    Hi. My name is Te Tuhi Māreikura (Creed) Hopa. I’m in Year 12 at Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Te Rāwhitiroa. I’m from Waikato and Te Whare Tapu o Ngāpuhi. Yeah, greetings to you all.

    He aha o mahara tuatahi o te ao haka?

    What are your earliest memories of te ao haka?

    Jobi:

    Ka kī mai koe i tēnā, ka whakaaro au ki tēnei taonga. I tipu au i roto i ngā mahi haka ki te taha o aku whanaunga me taku tuahine. Tokotoru mātou, mātou ko James Dawson, ko Paulette Tairua i tipu ki Poihākena, ā, ka whakatūria au e tōku māmā “Waiatahia he waiata, mahia mai te haka”, mai anō tērā. Nā reira, i a mātou e tipu ana ki Poihākena, ko mātou tērā e mahi takitoru ana. Nā, mai anō i taua wā, ā, ā mohoa noa nei, ko te haka taku ao.

    Jobi:

    When you say that, I think about this taonga. I grew up doing haka with my little cousin and my tuahine. There were three of us, James Dawson, Paulette Tairua and me grew up in Sydney doing those ones where your mum and dad make you get up, "Sing a song. Do the haka," as far back as I can remember. So growing up in Sydney, that was our thing and were a go-to trio. And from that time right through to now, haka has been our lives.

    Te Tuhi Mareikura:

    Āe, I tipu ake au i roto i te ao kapa haka, i waenganui i taku whānau a Hātea. I taku nohinohitanga ko tērā tētahi rōpū ko Hātea Marama Pai. Mō ngā tangata nohinohi, mō ngā taitamariki o te whānau. Ko au tērā me ōku tuakana, me ōku tuahine tērā i roto i tērā o ngā rōpū.  Ko tērā tētahi maharatanga. Āe.

    Te Tuhi Mareikura:

    Yes, I grew up in the kapa haka world, amongst my Hātea family. When I was an toddler there was a group called Hātea Marama Pai. It was a group for the toddlers and children of the family. That was myself, my cousins and my sisters who were part of that group. That is one memory. Yeah.

    Kia ora. E Te Tuhi e mahara au ki te wā e nepa ana koe, ko koe tērā e whiu ana i te rākau i ngā wā katoa. Nō hea ērā mātauranga?

    Thank you. Te Tuhi, I remember when you were young, you were always swinging a rākau around. Where is that skill from? 

    Te tuhi Mareikura:

    He maha ōku iho pūmanawa. He ngākau nui ahau ki ngā mahi mau rākau. Nā reira, nō ngā tangata, mātanga katoa ki te rākau ahau i ora ai i roto i ēnei mahi. I tiro ake atu au ki a rātou me ō rātou nekehanga, otirā, whai ahau. Engari ko tēnei, nāna ahau i whakatikatika, whakapaipai me pēhea te mahi tika i ngā mahi katoa, i ngā mahi kapa haka

    Te Tuhi Mareikura:

    I had a lot of idols. I am passionate about Māori weaponry. So, people who are all experts in rākau revived this art form within me. I would watch them and how they would move, and I would mimic them. But this one, would correct me on how to do everything properly within kapa haka.

    Kia ora. Kei te whakarongo au ki ō kōrero e pā ana ki ō iho pūmanawa. Ko wai mā ngā pou i whai wāhi nui ki te whakawanake i a koe i te ao haka?

    Thank you. I’m listening to you speak of your mentors. Who were the people that played a prominent role in your development of te ao haka?

    Mōku ake, ōku mātua. Taku māmā, tōna kaha mai rā anō, mai rā anō ki te kawe mātou ngā tamariki ki te kapa haka, ia wiki, ia wiki.

    For me it was my parents. From long ago, my mother was always persistent in taking us kids to kapa haka each week.

    Mai mai anō, i ia Rātapu i a mātou e tipu ana ki Ahitereiria, i haere noa mātou ki te waiata me te mahi i ngā kaupapa Māori ki ngā RSA, me ngā whare karakia puta noa, e waiata ana, e waiata Māori ana. Ā, mai i taua wā, haere ake nei, ko tō mātou māmā tō mātau kaha. Ko ētahi atu, ka whakaaro au ki a Uncle Muriwai Hakara, kātahi anō ka riro, me tana whakaawawe i a mātou, i āna tamariki i tipu ki Poihākena, ā, ka hoki mai me kī, mātanga haka mā ōna akoranga ki a mātou. Nā mātou te whiwhinga nui ko rāua ko Aunty Venus. E ako ana i a mātou ngā tamariki.

     As far back as I can remember, every Sunday growing up in Australia, we went to just sing and do kaupapa māori, and we'd be in RSAs and in churches and all-around singing, just waiata māori. And from that moment on, our mum's been our major push. Other people in our lives, I think of my Uncle Muriwai Ihakara, just only recently just passed, and his influence over us his children growing up in Sydney and then coming back, experts in haka. All of his teachings were valuable to us. We were very fortunate to have him and Aunty Venus teaching us kids.

    E whakaaro ana ahau ki tō māmā me ōna pōtae maha, me kī. Kōrero mai mō ērā āhuatanga.

    I think of your mother and all the hats she wears. Talk to me about that.

    Tōna kaha ki te whai mahi i ngā wā katoa, tōna kaha i te ārahi mātou, ki te whakatikatika i ngā mahi katoa, i ngā poari, i te kapa, i a mātou ngā tamariki. Āe i aru atu mātou i a ia, tōna tika ki te ū ki ngā kaupapa, ki ngā tikanga. I whakaaro ia mō mātou, tō mātou oranga. Koia tōku māmā.

    She always worked hard to find jobs and to guide us, to fix all that we did, including the boards, the group, us children. Yeah, we would follow her and her commitment to each initiative and the customs. She thought of us and our well-being. That was my mum.

    Kia ora. Te Tuhi kei a koe ētahi tangata, ō iho pūmanawa, he tangata whakaohooho i a koe i ngā wā katoa?

    Thank you. Te Tuhi, are there any people, role models or people who inspire you?

    Ko ōku iho pūmanawa tuatahi ake ko tōku whānau. 

    He nui te wāhi ki a rātou i taku ao haka. Ko aku tuākana ka tohutohu mai i a au. Ko taku pāpā, ko taku kuia hoki. Ka kawe rātou i ā rātou rakuraku me ā rātou pēke, ka whakarongo ki ā rātou nei kōrero.

    My first role models are my family.

    They all play a big role in my world of kapa haka. There's my brothers, they tell me what to do. There's also my dad, my nana. They carry their guitar and the bags and just listen to what they have to say.

    Tuarua ko pāpā Muriwai i tōna reo haka. Me te mihi anō ki a ia me tōna whaea, me tōna hoa pūmau, aunty Venus. Tuatoru ko tāku tino ko Wetini Mitai Ngatai me ōna mahi rākau. Āe koirā ōku iho pūmanawa

    Secondly, Pāpā Muriwai’s haka voice. I’d like to acknowledge him and his wife, Aunty Venus. Thirdly, my favourite is Wetini Mitai Ngātai and his weaponry work. Yeah, those are my role models.

    Kia ora, nō reira ko ō tamariki katoa kei roto e mahi ana i ngā mahi kapa haka?

    Cool, so, all your kids are doing kapa haka?

    Āe, āe, waimarie ahau ki tēnā. Tokorima aku tamariki, āe, rātou katoa i tēnei tau, kua eke ki roto i tēnei rōpū. So waimarie a mum te tū me ōna tamariki, me ngā mokopuna hoki. Āe, koirā ko te tino hiahia, te tino wawata ka ora tonu ngā tamariki i roto i ngā mahi .

    Yes, yes, and I feel fortunate about that. I have 5 children, yeah, all of them this year have joined the group. So, Mum is lucky she gets to perform with her children as well as her grandchildren. Yeah, that’s the ultimate goal, that the children will prosper in haka.

    Ka pai, He aha ētahi āhuatanga motuhake a Ngāpuhi, ā, i ahu mai aua tāera i hea? He aha ēnei taera?

    Okay. What are some unique and distinct features of Ngāpuhi style and where do these styles come from? What are these styles?

    Whakaaro ahau ki taku hoa a Tātai e mea ana ko te taiao, ko te taiao e ārahi te tangata i ngā nekehanga.  Ina kei takutai me pipi.  Ina kei roto i te ngahere me waewae manu. Āhua katoa o ngā tū o Ngāpuhi koirā tētahi Ngāpuhi mano tangata kē. Kei a Ngāpuhi ngā tū katoa engari mā te taiao e kawe te hae ō aua tū. 

    I think of my friend, Tātai, who said it is the environment. The environment will guide the person through the movements. If you’re at shore, you need to pipi. If you’re in the forest you should replicate the footwork of the birds. There are many aspects of the Ngāpuhi stances, within one person of Ngāpuhi descent are thousands of others. Ngāpuhi has all sorts of stances, but the environment will depict the type of stance.

    Te Tuhi, kōrero mai mō te momo o Hātea, te momo tū a Hātea?

    Te Tuhi, tell us about Hātea’s style of performing.

    Ko tō mātou momo, ko te kawe i ngā pūrākau o te kāinga me te kawe i te rongopai a ngā kōrero o tō tātou nei Matua i te rangi, ko te Atua tēnā. Pai tērā momo ki ahau, te waiata ngā mate, like so much. Āe, kāhore i te tino mohio i te, āe.

    Our style is to convey stories of home and to preach the gospel of God. And I like that style, like songs of lament, like so much. Yeah, I don’t really know the … yeah

    Te Tuhi, kōrero mai mō ngā pūrākau, mō ngā āhutanga kua whakatōngia e tō kuia i a koe mō ngā mahi piu rākau.

    Te Tuhi, tell us the stories and aspects that your kuia has embedded in you for wielding the rākau.

    Ehara i te mea he pūrākau, engari he maha ngā pūkenga, he maha ngā mea whakapaipai, whakatikatika i ahau kia pai ake ahau kia koi me haumaru me māro te tū, ērā momo āhuatanga ka whakatō ngā kuia katoa ki ā rātou nei mokopuna ōrite ki ahau.

    Not stories per se, but a lot of skills, a lot of drilling and correcting to become better, to be sharp and safe, to be solid, those sorts of things. All the nannies instill into their grandchildren just the way it was into me.

    He rite tēnā, ērā mahi ki ngā mahi ka kitea i runga i te whatārangi o ngā kapa katoa o Te Tai Tokearau?

    Is that the same as what we see on stage from all groups in Te Tai Tokerau?

    He aha?

    Sorry?

    He rite ērā mahi, ngā mea i ako koe mai tō kuia ki ngā, ki te tū o kapa kē atu o Te Tai Tokerau?

    Are the learnings from your kuia the same as what other Tai Tokerau teams do?

    Ehara i te mea kua akona ahau ōku nekehanga mai tōku kuia, engari mōku ake e ōrite ngā mea katoa nā te mea ahau e mātakitaki ana ki ngā kairākau o Muriwhenua, e whai atu ana i ā rātou nekehanga me te tāpiri i ōku nei nekehanga ki ā rātou nekehanga. Āe.

    It’s not that I learnt my movements from my kuia. But for me, everything is related because when I’m watching the warriors of Muriwhenua I follow their movements and add my own to theirs. Yeah.

    He aha te hiranga o te pūkana me te whētero?

    What is the importance of pūkana and whētero?

    Ko te pūkana he mahi rerekē ki tā ia tangata mō te whakanui i ngā mahi, mō te whakatūmeke i te tangata ki a koe. Ko te pūkana, he mea, ki ahau nei, he tūturu mō te Māori e rerekē ki ngā cultures katoa, ko te pūkana. Tōna anuanu he ataahua me kī engari pai ki ahau ki te kite i ngā pūkana rerekē. I te wā nei kite ahau i ngā tamaiti pēnei,(demonstrates pukana) tō rātou arero kite ki ngā taha ki ahau nei pai ki ahau ko te mea me noho tūturu pērā ki te tiki (demonstrates pukana). Āe, ki ahau nei he rerekē, kei ia tangata ko te pūkana me te whāterotero. Āe.

    The pūkana is different for everyone, to acknowledge the art form, and to scare people. Pūkana, for me, is a true Māori trait which differentiates us from every other culture. The beauty is in its ugliness, but I like seeing different pūkana. These days I see kids doing this, their tongue is to the side but for me I like that it stays true like the tiki. Yeah, the pūkana and the whāterotero is different for everyone. Yeah.

    He kōrero āpiti āu?

    Do you have anything to add?

    Mōku ake, e maha ngā āhuatanga o te pūkana. Tēnā pea he flirty, he whakamataku o te tangata, wērā o ngā momo engari he mea whakaputa i ngā kare ā-roto o roto. 

    For me, there are many aspects to the pūkana. Maybe flirty, to scare people, those types of things. It also expresses emotions.

    He tohu o ō kare ā roto. Nā reira, mena e rongo ana i te wairua whakanene, ka kimohia ngā karu, ka whētero. Mena he haka, kāore e kore ka whakamataku i te tangata ki ngā karu nui me te āe, koirā te pūkana ki ahau.

    It's like an expression of what you're feeling inside. So if you're feeling flirty, you give a bit of a wink, poke the tongue out. And if it's a haka, obviously, you're going to scare them with the big eyes and yes, that’s what pūkana is to me.

    Me te mōhio kua tū koe hei kaiwhakawā mō ngā whakataetae ā-rohe, ā-motu nei kāre kore. He aha tā ngā kaiwhakawā e kimi ana i ngā whakataaetae?

    And we know too that you’ve judged in both regional and national competitions. What do judges look for when competing?

    Jobi:

    Ki a au, ko ngā mahi whakawā i tēnei wā, i ētahi wā kei te kimi hapa. Ka mutu, kei te kimi i te motuhaketanga, he aha i pai ake tētahi kapa i tētahi atu, kei te kimi rānei i te mahi tahi, ko aua mea katoa. Kei te kimi hoki, e aua, he tū Māori, i te mea he nui ngā whakaawenga i ēnei rā, kei te tū kei te whakaatu i aua whakaawenga, engari, ki a au, kei te kimi i te tūturu Māori te tū i te nuinga o te wā, āe.

    Jobi:

    I think, when it comes to judging at the moment, sometimes we're looking for hapa or mistakes. Also they're looking for uniquenesses, what sets groups apart, or looking for unity, all of those sort of things. And then looking for, I don't know, he tū Māori, because we've got lots of influences these days and we're standing and we're presenting some of those influences, but I think we're looking for a more truly Māori performance most of the time. Yeah.

    Kia ora. Ka tahuri aku whakaaro ki te tito waiata. He aha ngā rautaki ka whāia e tō kapa ki te tito waiata?

    Cool. Let’s turn our attention to composing. What strategies does your kapa use to compose waiata?

    He rautaki kei a mātou-

    We've got a bit of a formula-

    Kōrero mai

    Tell us about it

    E pūmau nei mai i te ōrokotīmatanga. Ka mahi tētahi, ahakoa ko wai, ko taku teina, ko au, ko taku māmā, ko tētahi o te whānau ka tito i tētahi waiata mō tētahi kaupapa. Nā, mutu ana te tito i ngā kupu, ka tukua mai ngā kupu ki a au, māku te rangi e tito. Nā, mō Hātea, māku ngā rangi katoa e tito. Mutu ana tērā, ka haere au ki te kite i a Uncle Dave Tapene. E ai ki a māmā ko te whakahātea i ngā waiata, ko te tāpiri i ngā oro whakaniko, ā, ka puta te waiata ki te whai ao ki te ao mārama. Anā, ka ākona te waiata, ā mutu noa, hei whānau, tō mātou whānau Hopa, he paku ngarengare āu ki konei, ki konā.

    that we've stuck to right from the get-go, where somebody, and it could be anybody, my brother, myself, my mum or one of our whānau would write something to do with any kaupapa. And what happens then, after the words have been written, I get given the words and I make the tunes up. So for Hātea, I'll make all the tunes up. And then after I've made the tune up, I go and see my Uncle Dave Tapene. And then mum likes to call it Hātea-rize the songs and put all these fancy notes in and make this waiata come to life. Then we go about teaching it. All the way through, as a family, as our Hopa whānau , you've had a little bit of a say here and there.

    Heoi anō, koirā noa iho te rautaki. He pērā te ara o te nuinga o ā mātou tino waiata, ka tukuna mai ngā kupu, mā ngā kupu te rangi. Ka waiho mā ngā kupu e tohutohu mai mena ka piki, ka heke rānei. Ka whakatau i te wairua o te waiata.

    But that's pretty much basically our formula. Most of our hits me kī have all been written in that same vein where somebody will just give us the words and mā ngā kupu te rangi. So I let the kupu actually tell you whether you're going up or down. It sort of sets the scene for us.

    Kua rongo kōrero mō te uaua ki te haere ki ngā kaumātua ki te homai i ngā mātauranga kia tito i ērā hītori o roto i ngā titonga, i pērā hoki anō mō koutou?

    I’ve heard how hard it can be to go to kaumātua to ask for wisdom when composing songs on history, is it like that for you?

    Āe, i te mea kua ngarongaro haere te nuinga o rātou me aua pūrākau kōrero. Te wā nei ko mātou ngā tamariki e rapurapu haere i ngā timutimu e waihotia rātou ki te kohikohi he waiata pai, he waiata tika, he waiata tūturu o te kāinga. Uaua i te wā nei.

    Yes, because many of them have now passed on, taking with them the stories. Now it’s us children looking for the pieces that were left behind by them to make a good song, a righteous song, a true song from home. It’s a bit hard at this time.

    Te Tuhi kōrero mai mō tētahi waiata, haka rānei papai rawa atu ki a koe, he aha ai?

    Te Tuhi, tell us which song or haka you really like and why?

    Rua mano mā rua. Ko te haka a Te Waka Huia, Waipiro. E kōrero ana mō te waipiro me te pānga ki te tangata, ka puta i a ia ko te..

    2002 Te Waka Huia, Waipiro. That's just saying all the, what Waipiro does to you, it brings out 

    hātana, wērā o ngā momo, different stages of hātana. 

    evil. Those sorts of different stages of evil.

    Arā, ko Te Manu Pikake, ko Te Raiona, pai au ki taua haka. E rua taima kua hakaina e au te haka. Āe, ka rongo au i te wairua i taua haka.

    There's manu pikake. There's the raiona. I like the haka. I've performed it twice. Yeah, I feel the wairua in the haka.

    He kaiako koe, Joby, he aha ngā āhuatanga ka kimihia e koe ki te whiriwhiri kaitātaki?

    As a tutor Joby, what are some elements that you look for when selecting the kaitātaki?

    Tēnā, tuatahi rā, ko te tae atu, tae atu ki ngā haratau, e noho ana ki ngā kaupapa katoa. Ko ō mātau kaitātaki, mō Hātea I te nuinga o te wā ko au, ko taku teina, ko taku tuahine me ētahi paku āwhina nā ētahi atu, nā Tātai, kua haere mai.

    Well, firstly, just being there, being at practice, being a part of everything that's going on. Our kaitātaki have, for Hātea for most of the time have been myself, my brother and my sister, with little inserts of people like Tātai have come along.

    E kimi ana i ngā mea ka whakakorikori i te kapa, me te whakatauira atu. He mahi uaua te tū hei kaitātaki me te whiriwhiri kaitātaki. Engari mō mātou, ko te tangata e mahi ana i ngā mahi, e whakapau kaha ana, e ārahi ana i te rōpū.

     And we're looking for those that move the group, that are able to lead by example. And it's a hard piece to be the kaitātaki and then also pick who gets to be the kaitātaki. But for us, it's usually whoever is doing the mahi and standing out the most and was there leading the rōpū.

    Engari mō tō mātou rōpū, kotahi te kaiārahi, ko tō mātou māma, ā, kei te mōhio te katoa ki tēnei. Nā reira, i te mutunga o te rā, ko ngā kaitātaki mō runga i te atamira, me ngā kaiārahi, ko tō mātou māmā tō mātou kaiwhakaako matua. Ko au pea te Haihana. Ka heria koe ki te haratau, ā, ka noho tonu koe ki reira.

    But in our rōpū, we have one leader, it's our mum, and everybody knows this. So at the end of the day, you have the onstage and then you've got your leaders and our mum's our main tutor. And I'd probably be like Sergeant at Arms guy, get you to practice and make sure you're there.

    Kōrero mai mō te wiri. He aha te momo wiri mō mātou ko Ngāpuhi Nui Tonu. Ka mutu, nō hea ērā orokotanga, ērā whakaaro?

    Talk to us about the wiri. What is the style of wiri for all of us of Ngāpuhi Nui Tonu? Furthermore, where do they come from? Those thoughts?

    Rawe au ki te mahi wiri, ki te ako whakaako i ngā tamariki kore mōhio ki te wiri me tōna oranga mai ngā hīhī o Tama-nui-te-rā. Ko te wiri, kāore a Tama-nui-te-rā ki te rangi, kāhore anō mātou, he wow factor ki ahau ko te wiri. He rerekē ki tā ngā ahurea katoa te ao. Me tōna orokohanga mai Tama-nui-te-rā, wērā mahi, Hineraumati, heke ki a mātou haramai tēnā kōrero me ngā whakaaro o te Māori kia pērā. 

    I like doing the wiri and teaching the children that didn’t know the wiri originates from the rays of the sun. If there was no sun, we wouldn’t be here. The wiri to me is a wow factor. It’s different to any culture in the world and its origins come from Tama-nui-te-rā and Hineraumati, down to us. These stories and thoughts of us Māori are beautiful.

    Whakamiharo ana! Ki te kore he rā, kua kore he mauri. Māori mā, kei te pēhea te hōhonu o ngā whakaaro i ngā wā kei te kore noa iho? Kei te pērā aku whakaaro ki te tohatoha ki ngā tamariki me te kōrero mō te mana o tō tātou ahurea ki ngā mea iti noa pērā i te wiri e whakaora nei i te mauri me ngā mea katoa. 

    Like wow. No sun, no life. Māori, how deep are we, wiri when you're doing nothing? That's what I think like just to share with the kids and say how powerful our culture is just with little things like the wiri that bring life and bring everything to being.

    Te Tuhi kua kite koe i ngā rerekētanga o ngā wiri o te motu whānui. He aha te wiri o Hātea, o Te Tai Tokerau nei?

    Te Tuhi, you’ve seen the different styles of wiri around the country. What is Hātea’s and Te Tai Tokerau’s wiri?

    Mō ngā tāne, ehara i te mea me piri ō matimati ētahi me wehe. Mō ngā wāhine, pērā anō ki te pipi, pēnei. Āe ko ērā, ka whai atu ōku tuakana mēnā e hē ana ahau, hē ana rātou.

    For the men, it’s not as if the fingers need to be close together, some need to be spread apart. For the woman, like the pipi, like this. Yeah, those, I follow my older siblings, if I’m wrong, they must be wrong.

    He aha ētahi rautaki hei whakawhanake ki roto o Ngāpuhi e eke ai tō tātou iwi i roto i te ao haka? 

    What are some strategies we could develop in Ngāpuhi for our iwi to excel in te ao haka?

    I think tautoko ngā tamariki. Whakaako i a rātou, hoki ki te kōhanga reo. Me whakatū mahi ki reira, ka kite mātou i nga hua ā tōna wā.

    I think to support our kids. Teach them, return to the Kōhanga Reo. Create jobs there, and in due time we’ll see the fruits.

    Ki a au, me timata anō tātou i ētahi wā. Kua ruku hōhonu rawa pea tātou, me hoki pea tātou. Kāore mātou i tito waiata hou. I whakamahi noa mātou i ngā mea kua whakaritea kētia mā mātou. Mōku ake, kia hoki au ki a Māmā, hoki ki te marae ki te whakangahau. I rongo au i te wairua whakangahau i ngā tau e rua puta noa i te motu. I kaha te wairua, me te tika hoki. E mōhio ana au, ka noho ana au ki ngā tāngata pērā i a Herewini Parata

    I think we need to start again sometimes. Maybe we've jumped down a little bit too far and go back to those, never mind making up new songs, use all the stuff that's already here for us. And for mine is to really just back to māmā, get back on the marae whakangahau. I felt the energy of whakangahau in this last little two-year round throughout the motu and it felt so strong and it's where I think we should be. I know, when I've sat with people like Herewini Parata 

    tōna kōrero, ā, Hātea koutou he rōpū o te kāinga, o te marae, tēnā ko ngā mahi. Koirā ki ahau nei, āe, tipu ake mātou ki te whakangahau ki te kāinga. 

    He would say, Hātea, your group is a home group of the marae, that’s what you need to do. That to me, yeah, we were brought up to entertain at home.

    Ā, whai muri i tēnā, kei te kapu o tō ringa te ao. Heoi anō, ki a au, me tīmata anō ki ngā mahi māmā.

    And then, after that, the world's your oyster. But I think everybody should be me tīmata anō me ngā mahi māmā.

    Ki a koe he aha ngā mea me whakapakari ake kia tū pakari a Ngāpuhi ki roto i ngā mahi haka?

    For you, what are the areas that Ngāpuhi need to work on to strengthen ourselves in kapa haka?

    Tātou, mōku ake me whakakōtahi ai ngā rōpū katoa ki te kōrero, ki te whai tētāhi rautaki. Kia tae tētahi o ngā rōpū ki te top nine, engari āe ko te kōrero ki a mātou anō tētahi rautaki, me te ū ki te reo Māori, te reo Māori, me tika te reo. Āe.

    Us, for myself, all groups need to unite to have a discussion and come up with a strategy to get one of the groups to the top 9. But, yeah, a discussion between us is one strategy, we need to be firm with the Māori language, and it needs to be correct. Yeah.

    Kia kōrua tahi, kei runga noa atu te Matatini i ngā whakataetae ā-rohe? He aha ai?

    For both of you, is Te Matatini bigger than the regional competition? Why?

    Jobi:

    Kua toru tekau tau pea au e haere ana ki Te Matatini, ā, ka haere mō te whanaungatanga. Ka haere ki te kite i ngā mata, ki te whakarongo ki ngā rōpū, ki te kite i ō hoa me ā rātou tamariki, me ā rātou tamariki. Koirā te take e haere ai au mai anō i te tīmatanga.

    Jobi:

    I've been going to Matatini for some 30 years now, and we go for the fellowship. We go to see the same faces, to hear the groups, to see all your friends and then their kids, and then their kids. That's what it's been about for me from the outset.

    E mahara ana au ki taku whakataetae ā-motu tuatahi i te tau 1990, e haere ana ki Waitangi i Ahitereiria. Koirā taku kitenga tuatahitanga i te nui o ngā kapa haka. Ki a au, he wāhi pai ki te whakatipu i ā tātou tamariki. Āe, ko te kapa haka he waka e kawe ai i ngā āhuatanga katoa o te ao Māori. I te mutunga o te rā, he mea mō te whānau. E mōhio ana, ko tō mātou rōpū, ko Hātea, ākene pea he tīma poitūkohu mātou. I te mutunga o te rā, kāore he aha ki a mātou, ko te hiahia o te katoa kia noho hei whānau. Waimarie ana, ko te kapa haka tō mātou momo e tipu ai te kapa. Ka mutu, he nui ngā hua me ngā wheako kua puta.

    I remember going to my first nationals was in 1990, coming to Waitangi from Australia. And then that was the first time I'd actually seen a whole massive grouping of kapa haka like that. And so I think that it's an awesome space for us to grow our kids. And yeah, kapa haka is a vehicle that uses all of te ao Māori and it's something that's for whānau at the end of the day. I know, with our rōpū Hātea, we could have been a basketball team. It didn't matter what we were at the end of the day, everyone just wanted to be whānau together. So fortunately enough, kapa haka has been our momo and it's grown all these fullas and given us some good, real awesome experiences.

    Kia ora. Pēhea koe Te Tuhi pai ake te whakataetae Matatini ki ngā whakataetae ā-rohe?

    Cool. What about you, Te Tuhi? Is Te Matatini better than the regional competition?

    Pai ake au ki te whakataetae ā-rohe.

    I prefer regionals.

    He rite tonu te kīia mai ōku, “Me tū koe ki mua i tōu iwi ake i mua i te tū ki mua i tangata kē”. He pai ki au te kite i aku hoa nō kura kē. Ehara i te mea kei te mōhio au ki ngā tāngata katoa ki Te Matatini. E wātea ana au ki te noho tahi ki aku hoa ki te whakataetae ā-rohe, ka tohe, ka ngahau.

    Pai ake te whakataetae ā-rohe ki ahau.

     I was always told, "You must perform in front of your own before you show anyone else." And I love seeing my friends from the other kura and all that. And I don't really know that much people at Matatini. I get to hang out with my mates at ā-rohe, get to have our own banter, our own fun.

     

    Regional competition is better in my opinion.

    Kia ora. Ki ō kōrua whakaaro ko te reo te tīmatanga me te whakamutunga o ngā mahi kapa haka?

    Thank you. For you both, is the Māori language the beginning and ending of kapa haka?

    Āe, ko te, ko ngā mahi kapa haka he kaikawe i te reo, āe, koirā ko te oranga mutunga kore mō ngāi tātou. Nō reira kia kaha tātou, kia ū ki tērā o ngā whāinga matua ko te reo.

    Yes. Kapa haka is a vessel for the language. So, yes, that is our forever livelihood for us all. So, be courageous, be committed to that main goal that is the language. 

    He aha te āpōpō mō tō tātau iwi mō Ngāpuhi o roto i ēnei mahi?

    What does tomorrow look like for our iwi in Ngāpuhi in these pursuits?

    Ki a au, e pai ana. Ko te puāwaitanga o ngā kura rerekē puta noa i te rohe. He reanga anō kei te ara mai. Ki ōku whakaaro ko te reanga hou, tō reanga e whai rawa ana i ngā mātanga reo, ngā mātanga haka, ā, ko tērā paku whanaketanga kua āhua roa e tāria ana. Engari, ki a au, ka kitea te puāwaitanga o Ngāpuhi, me kī.

    I think it looks quite bright. The growth of the different kura throughout the rohe. There's been reanga that's coming through. I think the next reanga, your reanga is rich with mātanga reo, mātanga haka and it's been that little bit of development that's taken a little while but I think we're going to just see te puāwaitanga o Ngāpuhi, me kī.

    He aha ngā pānga o te ao haka ki tō ao?

    what are the impacts of te ao haka on your life?

    He nui te pānga o te ao haka ki taku ao. I tipu au ki Poihākena i ngā tau waru tekau. Nā reira i mahue au i te kura kaupapa me te kōhanga reo. Engari i taku hokinga mai, i mate taku pāpā i taku taiohitanga, ka mutu, kāore anō au i tae mai ki Aotearoa. I pātai au kia hūnuku ki te whenua Māori me taku pōhēhē katoa ngā Māori he kōrero Māori koirā te āhua ki Aotearoa, he rerekē. I taku hūnukutanga ki konei, i tukuna au ki tētahi kura noho, ki Te Kāreti o Wesley.

    Haka has had a huge impact on my life. I grew up in Sydney in the '80s and so I missed out on kura kaupapa and kōhanga reo. But upon returning, my dad had passed away when I was a teenager and I'd never been to New Zealand before. I asked to move to Māori land. I thought all Māori's spoke Māori and that's just how you did it in New Zealand, which was rerekē. And when I moved here, I was sent to boarding school and went to Wesley College.

    Nā, i ngā tau waru tekau i Poihākena, ao te pō, pō te ao, pau te kaha. I hūnuku au ki Pukekohe ki ngā pere a ngā kau, i kati te toa i te toru karaka i te ahiahi. Nā reira he ohorere, ā, i te kura ko te nuinga nō Tonga. Nā reira, koirā taku tūtakitanga tuatahitanga ki Aotearoa i a au e taiohi ana. Kātahi anō ka mutu, iwa tekau mā rua, taku tū tuatahi ki Te Matatini, kua tae atu ki ngā Matatini katoa mai i taua wā. Ka mutu tērā, e toru ngā pahi i hari atu i au ki te kura. I hoki taku whānau ki Poihākena, i noho au ki reira. I āhua moepapa te āhua. 

    And so, in the '80s in Sydney, it was 24-7, everything was a go. I moved back to Pukekohe where it was cowbells and the shop closed at 3:00 in the afternoon. So it was a culture shock. And at boarding school, there were mainly Tongans. So that was my first introduction to New Zealand as a teenager. I'd just come off, 1992 was my first stand as Te Matatini, and I've been to every single one since. We came off there, three buses dropped me off at boarding school. I get out of the bus. My whānau is going back to Sydney, I stayed there. It was a little bit nightmarish.

    Engari, e toru rā ki te kura, i haratau haka rātou, te kura katoa. 380 ngā tama me ētahi kōtiro e whakatūtū ana. Me whakarārangi mō te āhua ono hāora e ako haka ana, pērā i a Poropeihana, i a Utaina, ko aua momo haka o ngā rā o mua. Ka mea mai rātou, “Ka pai, e tama mā, me kaha te karawhiu”. Te karanga mai a te tuakana. 

    But three days into school, they had haka practice. Whole school, 380 boys and a few girls were on parade. You had to stand in line about six hours or so learning haka, like Poro Peihana and Utaina and those type of haka of yesteryear that we don't see much of. And at the end of six hours, they said, "Okay, boys, we're going to go hard." The prefect yells out,

     "Toa Kia Mau." 

    “Toa kia mau.”

    Tēnei heahea, ka kaha ake i te mea kātahi anō ka hoki mai i te whakataetae ā-motu.

    Silly me, goes harder because I had just came from nationals.

    Nā, i aua rā, ka āhua tohutohungia koe kia haere ki mua mena i te makarauna koe ka mekengia rānei koe, ka haere au ki mua ka mea mai rātou, “Kei te aha koe?” ka whakahoki au, “Kotahi anake te ara ki te haka, me kaha koe, me kaua rānei e mahi”. Ka mea mai rātou, “Tēnā, māu ngā haka e ārahi?” “Āe”. Nā reira, taku rā tuatoru ki te kura noho, he Mossie au, he ihu hūpē, e taki ana i te haka. Nā reira, i haere au ki ngā wāhi katoa ki te taha o te tīma whutupōro.

    Well, back in those days, you were sort of told to get out in the front if you're mucking around or you're going to get a hiding. I get up in the front and they said, "What's going on?" And I said, "My dad says there's only one way to haka and that's hard out or nothing." And they said, "Well, can you lead these haka?" "Yep." So from day three of me going to boarding school, I was a Mossie, undercut, and I was leading the haka. So I was going with the 1st XV everywhere.

    Nā, ko aku hoa i te āhua mekengia rātou me te hōpara i tō mātou ora ki te kura noho. Ko te haka taku oranga. Ka haere au ki Ahitereiria i taua wā, ā, i te kura a Jonah Lomu. Nā reira, i noho au ki ngā tāngata pērā. Ka mutu, mena e tau ana koe ki te haka, ka whiwhi parāoa me te miraka, he mea nui ērā i te kura noho. Mai i taua wā, i whakapono au ki ngā mahi haka. Nā, mai i taua wā ahakoa haere au ki whea i Aotearoa, he haka te mahi. Kāore au i tutaki ki taku whānau i Whangārei. I haere au ki reira, kei roto rātou i tētahi kapa haka. Nā i uru noa au.

    Well, my mates were sort of getting the beats and having to traverse our life at boarding school, haka saved me, and I went to Australia. And at that time, Jonah Lomu was at school, so I got to hang out with fellows like that. And when you could do the hakas, you got bread and milk and those are big things at boarding school. So from then on whakapono ahau ki a haka . So wherever I went from that moment on in Aotearoa, I did haka. I'd never met my whānau in Whangārei, and I turned up and they were in a kapa haka group, so I just joined in.

    Ko au tērā. Katoa aku mahi ā mohoa nei e hāngai ana ki te ao Māori me ngā mahi haka. Ka hono ērā ki aku rā tuatahi ki Aotearoa. Kotahi taku mōhio, e kaha ana te haka, otirā, i tino whakautengia e te katoa. Nā reira, mai i taua wā, ko te mahi haka. Wamarie au i te noho ki Te Huinga Waka i Ahitereiria, ka hūnuku ki Aotearoa ka uru taku whānau ki Te Waka Huia. I rongonui ai a Māmā nā tana waiata, nā Wairua Tapu ki Hāwera, ā, mō mātou ngā tamariki, taku teina me taku tuahine, i tipu mātou i roto i taua kapa i ngā tau iwa tekau. Ka kī au, ko ngā tino tau o Te Waka Huia. I reira mātou.

    And that's been me, everything about my mahi to this day has all been to do with te ao Māori and mahi haka, but I relate it all back to my first few days of being in Aotearoa, and the one thing that I knew that was strong that everybody respected was haka. So from that time on, it was haka. Fortunate enough to be in Te Huinga Waka in Australia and then to have moved to Aotearoa and our whānau joined Te Waka Huia. Mum being famed for singing Wairua Tapu solo at Hāwera. And for us as kids, my brother and sister, we grew up amongst that team that whole '90s in, I would say, the super years of Te Waka Huia. We happened to be there.

    Ko tā mātou haratau tuatahi ki Te Waka Huia, mō Crowded House. I te tito waiata mātou, kātahi anō mātou ka hūnuku mai i Ahitereiria, i tonoa mātou e Uncle Bub rāua ko Aunty Nen. He taiohi noa au, i reira a Māmā, i te waiata tahi me Crowded House i roto i tētahi pēne ono tekau tāngata nō ngā Kuki Airani ki Pīha. I tino tumeke i tēnei whānau. Nā, ka manaakitia mātou.

     

    Nā tērā ka hua mai ko te whakarongo ki aua akoranga, “hoki ki te kāinga me ako i ō ake”. Koirā tētahi kōrero a uncle Bub. Whāwha haere te ao.

    Our first practice at Te Waka Huia was Crowded House. We were making a song and we had just moved from Australia and Uncle Bub and Auntie Nen had invited us to come. And I'm only a teenager, mum's in there, and we're singing with Crowded House in this 60-piece Cook Island band out at Pīha. Just blown away by this whānau, and then we were taken in there.

     

    And from that came out of listening to those teachings “Go home and learn your own”. That’s what Uncle Bub would say. Explore the world.

    Haere, akongia ngā mātauranga. Engari me hoki ki te kāinga. Nā reira i waimarie ki te whakatū i tō mātou rōpū, me te whai i tā rāua ārahitanga i a rāua i konei tonu. I ō mātou whakataetae ā-motu tuatahi, ka peka mai rāua ki a mātou i mua i tā mātou tū me ngā kōrero akiaki, "mahi tika ana koutou, i hoki koutou ki ō koutou ake.

     

    Tipu ake ngā mokopuna ki roto i te māra o ngā mahi a Rēhia, ngā mahi kapa haka. Kāhore he mahi tū atu mō te whanaungatanga mō te noho whānau."

    Go around, grab all this knowledge, but always return home. So we were fortunate to make our rōpū and have their guidance while they were still here. For our first few nationals, they would see us and they would come and see our team just before we'd perform and give us that encouragement to say, You are on the right track, you returned to your own. 

    Raise your grandchildren in the garden of Rehia, in kapa haka. There is nothing better than doing it with your family.

    Anā, koirā tā mātou i mōhio ai nō mai anō. Katoa ngā tāngata kua whai wāhi ki a mātou ko ō mātou whaea kēkē, ō mātou matua kēkē, ehara noa i te whanaunga. Engari i whānau ai nā ngā mahi kapa haka, ngā wānanga, ngā tangi. E mōhio ana, mō taku whānau, ko te tangihanga tuatahi i tae atu ai au, ko tērā o taku pāpā i Poihākena. Nā tērā hononga ki Te Huinga Waka, Uncle Muriwai, te whānau Ihakara, te whānau Tapene, mai i taua wā, ā, mohoa noa nei, e kore e whati taua hononga. E kore e wetekina. Nā te kapa haka i hono ai mātou, ngā whānau e ora noa ana ka tōia kia tū hei Māori i tēnei ao hurihuri.

    And that's what we've known all of our lives. All of the people in our lives that we say are our aunties and uncles are not even related. But it's through ngā mahi kapa, the live-ins, the tangi. I know, for my family, my first tangi that I ever attended was my dad's in Sydney, and it was through that hononga of Te Huinga Waka, uncle Muriwai, te whānau Ihakara, te whānau Tapene, from that time right through until now, that bond is unbreakable, kore taea te wete, because of kapa haka. It brought us together, young families just living and still drawn in to be Māori in this big world going on.

    Nā reira, he mea nui te haka ki tō mātou whānau. Nā, ka rongo i a ia, i wareware i a au i tipu ake rātou ki tō mātou ake kapa ki a Hātea. Ānō nei he taonga noa a Hātea ki tēnei tama. 

    Mai anō i tana pēpitanga, ka moe ia i runga i te rākau, ka mōhio koe ka hiahia ana koe ki tērā tangi, kia uru mai te pūtātara, kei reira ia e pupuhi ana i te pūtātara. Kua oma atu ia ki te wero. Kua tae atu mātou ki Waitangi mai anō i tana whānautanga mai, ā, kua tukuna ia hei kaiwero mai i te wā e toru tau tana pakeke.

    So, haka has been massive for us as a whānau. And then to hear him, and I actually forgot that they grew up just in our own kapa, in Hātea. Hātea is like a toy for this guy. 

    Since a baby, he'd be asleep on the rākau, and you know when you want that sound, the conch to come in, fullas there and he's blowing it. He's run out and done the wero. We've been at Waitangi now every year for the last, for all of his life, and he's our wero guy we've chucked out since he was about three.

    Ko aua āhuatanga i āwhina i a mātou kia noho tonu hei whānau, kia tiaki tētahi i tētahi. Nā, i taua wā tonu, koinei te moemoeā o Māmā, kia noho mātou ki taua ao, ki te ao haka.

    So, it's been those sorts of things that have helped us stay together as a whānau, look after each other. And all the while, mum, this is part of her dreams for all of us to live in that ao of te ao haka.

    Te Tuhi kei te whakaaro ahau ki ngā tikanga Māori me ngā āhutanga o te whatārangi. Ki a koe, e noho ngātahi ana ērā kaupapa e rua? Ka rua, kōrero mai mō ngā āhuatanga o te wero.

    Te Tuhi, I’m thinking of Māori customs that are associated with the stage. For you, do those two things go together? Secondly, talk to us about the elements of the wero.

    Mō te taha o te whatārangi me te tikanga. Pai ngā taha e rua ki ahau he kōrero ake, e kōrero ana au mō tōku kura, tōku kura e kaha ana ki te mahi i ngā waiata i runga i te atamira engari e kaha tonu ana ki te mahi i ngā waiata mō tātou nei kaumātua e kōrerorero ana, kaha mātou te tautoko waiata i a ia. Mō te wero, ngā tikanga o te wero, ka whai atu au i ngā, i ōku ihopūmanawa, ko Wetini Mitai Ngatai tērā, ko ngā pou waru o te kāinga ka whai atu i ō rātou nei tapuwae, āe.

    With regards to the stage and customs, I enjoy both sides. For me it’s another story. I’m talking about my school, my school who is able to sing when on stage, but also able to perform songs for when our kaumātua have spoken, we were able to support him through song. As for the challenge, the procedures of the challenge, I follow my idols, Wetini Mitai Ngatai, those that are at level 8 from home. I follow in their steps. Yeah.

    Ki a koe, he rerekē te momo taki, ki ahau nei ko te taki, te wero rānei, he rerekē te momo taki o konei ki iwi kē atu?

    For you, is there a difference in the taki or the challenge of other tribes?

    Āe.

    Yes.

    He aha ngā rerekētanga?

    What are the differences?

    Ko tētahi rerekētanga i te kāinga nei ka tukuna mātou kia toru ngā wero, ko te mea tuatahi he mea kitea ko wai ngā manuhiri me te kōrero ki a mātou ko wai rātou. Ko te mea tuarua, te mea maha ōna pūkenga, te mea whiuwhiu haere i te rākau, ā, te mea nīti rawa o ngā mea nīti katoa o te kāinga. Ko te mea tuatoru, kia taea mātou te kite ka haere mai rātou te kino, hei te pai rānei. Ka takoto te rau, te manuka, whatever, ka oma. Koirā te tikanga i ako au mō te kāinga nei, ko ngā mea o iwi kē atu, ā, ko tētahi anake he tino rerekē

    One difference at home is that we send out three challenges, the first one is to see who the visitors are and relay that back to us. The second, is the more skilful one and can wield the stick and is the best of the best of the home. Through the third one we can see if they come on bad or good terms, they lay down the leaf or challenge and run off. That’s what I have learnt about home. Those from other tribes only send one, which is very different.

    Kōrero mai mō ngā āhuatanga o te whakarite i tētahi wānanga, whakarite i tō rōpū. 

    He aha ngā whakaritenga ka whakahaeretia ki muri e takatū ai tō kapa mō ngā wānanga, mō te papa rānei, aua kōrero katoa?

    Talk to us about what goes into preparing for a live-in and preparing your group.

    What are the preparation that goes behind the scenes in order for your kapa to be ready for wānanga or ready for stage, all of that kōrero?

    Hika, he nui. He tīma kei a mātou, ō mātou tāngata e mōhio ana mātou ka whakarite i ngā mea katoa, tō mātou wāhi noho, tokohia ngā tāngata kei te haere mai, ko wai kei te haere mai, ko wai kei te hiahia āwhina. 

    Anā, ko ō mātou kuia ka haere noa mai ki te noho, he wāhanga tonu tērā o te mahi whakarite, ka haere mai ki te kohete i a mātou, aua āhuatanga katoa. Ko ngā kaitiaki tamariki.

     Ko tō mātou kapa he kapa hari mai i ngā tamariki. Kei te whāngai rātou i ngā tamariki i roto i ngā rārangi, e omaoma haere ana, e rere mai ana te paihikara. Ko mātou tētahi o aua kapa, mā te whānau katoa e tutuki ai ngā mahi o runga i te papa. Ko te nuinga kei waho i te papa, te whakawhanaungatanga, te kotahitanga, ka hua mai tētahi wairua ki te papa, te tūmanako.

    Oh, that's huge. We have our people, our go-to people who you just know they've got everything sorted when it comes to where we're staying or how many people are coming and who's coming, or who needs awhi. 

    And then we have our kuia that just come to sit, and that's part of the preparation too, where we need them to tell you off and things like that. Babysitters all around the side. 

    Our group's one of those groups where you bring the kids. They're feeding the kids in the lines, the kids are racing through, the bike just went through. We are one of those rōpū where it's that whole whānau thing that makes the action happen onstage for us. More of it's off the stage, the whakawhanaungatanga and being together, and then it sort of brings some sort of magic to the stage, hopefully.

    Kei te, i a au e kōrero ana kia kōrua kei te tino aronui au ki tō taonga me te mohio ko tērā te taonga ka kitea e te motu i ngā wā ka tū i ngā whakataetae o te kāinga nei. Kōrero mai mō ngā, mō te whakamārama o tērā taonga kei a koe?

    While I’m talking to you two, I’m focused on your taonga and knowing that that taonga is seen by the country when you perform in the home competitions. Can you explain to us what your taonga represents?

    I mua rā i kōrero au mō mātou tokotoru e tipu ana ki Poihākena e mahi haka ana, i tukuna mai tēnei. I tapaina ko Big Boy, i tapaina ki te ingoa o taku whanaunga, o James Dawson, i noho rā ki Manurewa. I ngā rā o mua, i Manurewa, tokotoru ngā tama i te wā i tū te whakataetae haka ki Tāmaki Makaurau, he aha tērā? Ko te Polyfest? Tokotoru rātou nō… ā, ka mahara, ki taku hoa anō hoki ki a Damon Heke, ko tētahi o ana kapa, tētahi pīki whara, nui noa atu i te koiora, Hēmi. He tino hoa ana mātua ki taku māmā rāua ko taku pāpā, i tipu tahi mātou.

    I spoke before about three of us growing up in Sydney doing haka. I was given this. This was called big boy, named after my cousin, James Dawson, who used to be in Manurewa. Back in the day, Manurewa where the three boys when the Auckland hakas and. What was that? It was like a Poly Fest, and three of them from... And remember, it's also to my mate Damon Heke, and it was one of his groups. It was this big fellow, bigger than life, James. His parents were some of my mum and dad's best friends, and we grew up together.

    I mate ia. Nā i tana matenga, i tukuna mai tēnei e tana māmā rāua ko tana pāpā me te kī mai, “Ko tēnei, āe, ko Waimirirangi”. Koirā te tohu o Te Tai Tokerau ka kite koe i muri i ngā papa tū waewae. He tohu anō hoki o ngā waka e whitu. Engari ko te take i homai ai tēnei ki a au, kia ora tonu, kia haka tētahi ki roto i te kāinga, ki Te Tai Tokerau ki te mau I tēnei taonga. Nā reira, ka tukuna e au ki tētahi tangata tōtika. Kāore e taea e au te pupuri ki te kaumātua haere au, ka mutu hoki ngā mahi haka. Me tuku ki tētahi atu.

    He passed away. And when he passed away, his mum and dad gave this to me and said, "This is, āe ko Waimirirangi," and that's the tohu o Te Tai Tokerau that you'll see on the back of the stages. And it also represents ngā waka e whitu. But why they gave this to me was, to keep this alive, somebody has to be doing haka in the kāinga, Te Tai Tokerau to wear this. So I'll end up passing it on to somebody who's live and direct. I can't keep this on if I'm just going to just whither up now and stop haka. I have to pass it on to the guys.

    Heoi anō, he nui ana tohu. Mōku ake, ka karangahia ko Big Boy i te mea i a au e haka ana ka whakaaro ki a ia i ngā wā katoa. Āe, i kī au, he pīki whara. He pīki whara i tō mātou ao. Āe, he mea nui ki a mātou. Koirā te take e mau ana i te rā nei. Ahakoa te mahi, ka kite koe i ngā mahi haka, ka mau ko tēnei. I te wā i whakaahuatia tēnei te kiriata ki te taha o Alien Weaponary,

    But this is a tohu of a few things. And for me. We call him big boy because I always think about him when I'm doing haka. And yeah, like I say, he was giant. He was a giant in our world. Yeah, this means quite a lot to us. So that's why I wore today. Anything we do, you'll see me in haka ka mau tēnei. When this guy did a bit of a video shoot with Alien Weaponry, 

    ka mau tēnei. He tohu o haka o te kāinga.

    He wore this. It’s a symbol of haka back home.

    Ko wai ngā tino, tino mātanga, me kī, o ngā rā ō mua, ko wai ngā tino kaihaka o te kāinga nei?

    Who were the ultimate experts, per se, back in the days, who were the experts of home here?

    Nā, ko Waitangi te tino wāhi i te wā e tipu ana a Māmā, ka hoki rātou e ono wiki i mua mai i te rā o Waitangi ki te mahi haka. Ka tirohia ērā rīpene, he rerekē i ēnei rā. Engari ko ngā tāngata o aua wā ko tētahi tangata ka pīata mai ki a au e rangatira tonu ana i tēnei rā, ko Aunty Rosimia. Arā ētahi whakaahua ōna, he kōtiro riki, ā mohoa noa nei, kei Waitangi ia me ana mokopuna, e haka tonu ana. Ka whakaaro au ki ngā tāngata pēnā i a ia, ka mōhio au nō tana pāpā rāua ko tana māmā ana whakaakoranga. 

    Well, see, back in, Waitangi used to be the place to go when mum was growing up, and she said they'd go six weeks prior to Waitangi day and be doing haka. And you look back at those videos and rerekē ki ēnei rā. But those people back then, and one of the people that sticks out for me, and is still pertinent today is Auntie Risinia. There's photos of her as a little kōtiro, and then now, she'll be at Waitangi with her mokopuna, haka tonu. I like to think of people like her and then I know her teachings come from her pāpā, her māmā, and they've long gone before.

    Ka whakaaro au ki te momo i a Willy Henare. Taku taenga tuatahitanga ki te kāinga, te pāpā o Fred mā, he taniwha ia o te haka ki konei. Ka kaha tana waha, engari ko tana awenga. Ka haka ana ia, ki te haere koe ki te kite i a ia e haka ana, mō te hemo tonu atu. Ko rāua ko Uncle Martin Kaka, ka kite ana i a rāua, he nui ngā āhuatanga, kāore he here. Ko te haka anake. Kei te maumahara au ki ēnei kōrero, me taku mōhio, mō aku matua kēkē, ko te tangata e āhei ana te haka e here ana ngā ringa ki muri, ka whakamahia noa iho te kanohi, koirā te momo i a Martin Kara rāua ko Willy Henare.

    I think of people like Willy Henare. When I first turned up in the kāinga, that's Fred and them's dad, he was a taniwha o haka ki konei. He was hard out with his mouth, but just this presence. And when he did haka, if you'd ever go to see him do haka, hundy. Him and Uncle Martin Kaka, when you see them, they've just got other thing going on and there's no bounds. It's just haka. And I remember these stories, and I know, even for my uncles, people being able to just haka with their hands behind their back and just their face noa iho, that's the momo of fellows like Martin Kaka and Willy Henare.

    Kōrero mai mō ō mahi ki te taha o Alien Weaponry ?

    Tell us about what you have been doing with Alien Weaponry?

    I waimarie au ki te whai wāhi ki tā rātou ataata pūoro, ki a Hatupatu, ko au tētahi o ngā kiripuaki matua o te waiata. Waimarie ahau i tērā. He rerekē ō rātou waiata ki ahau, tino rata au ki ērā o ngā waiata, e tino rerekē.

    So, I was fortunate enough to star in their music video, Hatupatu, being the main character of their story. I was fortunate for that. Their songs are different to mine but I take a liking to very different songs.

    Nā, e toru rawa ngā rā e hopu ataata ana, ko au noa e omaoma haere ana, e mau ana i taku maro me taku rākau, e oma atu ana i tētahi manu. Aroha nui ana ki tērā. I tutuki aku moemoeā, e noho ana ki te ngahere e mau ana i taku maro. Āe, koirā pea taku hoputanga tuatahitanga, he ataata pūoro me Alien Weaponry. Koia.

    Well, I had about three days shooting, and it was just me running around in my maro and my rākau, running away from a bird. And I loved it. It was like a dream come true, just living in the bush with my maro on. Yeah, that was probably one of my first shoots, was a music video with Alien Weaponry. Yeah.

    Jobi:

    Kua waimarie mātou i te nui o ngā āheinga maha kua tūpono ki a mātou. Kua kitea pea mātou, a Hātea e ngā tāngata, ā, mai i tērā kua hua mai ētahi mea pērā i te mahi tahi ki a William Wairua, ki a Billie Eilish, ki a Universal Music e waiata ana i a Bohemian Rhapsody. 

    Jobi:

    We've been lucky in the sense that a lot of opportunities have just come by chance. People have seen us perform as Hātea, perhaps, and then from that has grown things like working with William Wairua, Billie Eilish, the Universal Music singing Bohemian Rhapsody. 

    Te pēne SIX60. Katoa ēnei āheinga i hua mai i a mātou e mahi ana i te mahi. Ko te nuinga, he mahi e mahi ana mātou i te kāinga. Nā reira, kua hua mai ēnei āheinga ki rāwāhi ki te mahi ki ngā tāngata rongonui, i te nuinga o te wā, ko mātou noa i te kāinga. Nā ō mātou reo waiata, ki ōku whakaaro. 

    SIX60. All these opportunities came from just being out there doing the mahi. And a lot of it has been stuff we're just doing at home. So we've had all of these overseas opportunities in-house to work with famous people, and most of the time, it's just been us at home. And it's for our, singing, I think.

    Ka pai. Kei te pēhea te whakawhenumi i te kapa haka me ngā kaipuoro me tērā momo?

    All right. How has it been mixing kapa haka with musicians and tērā momo?

    He akoranga anō i te mea he āhua pēnei i tēnei hopu ataata i te rā nei. Ka kati, ka tīmata, ka mahi anō. E mōhio ana au, i te wā i mahi mātou ki a William Wairua, kotahi rā mātou e waiata ana, i auau te waiatatia o te wāhanga kotahi, tōna kotahi rau rima tekau ngā wā, hoki atu hoki atu, engari ko aua haratautanga me ngā mahi ki muri i āwhina i a mātou mō runga i te papa. 

    Kua tukuna mai ētahi whakaawenga paku me ētahi ara e tū tika ai te tangata, ā, ka tae atu ana ki ngā rama, ki te kāmera, ki ngā mahi, ki tō mātou kapa, he āhuatanga anō kei reira. Ka karangahia e au ko te Hāteatanga, e mōhio ana te katoa kia tū tika. 

    It's quite a discipline because it's a bit like the filming we're having today. It's stop, start, rerun. I know, when we worked with William Wairua, we spent a whole day singing the same part of the song over and over about 150 times, backwards and forwards, but all of that training and the background has helped us on the stage.

    It's given us all these different little opportunities and ways of how you have to be. And when it comes to lights, camera, action, our group, there is a bit of a factor there. I call it the Hātea sort of zhoosh , where everyone just knows you know how to be prim and proper.

    He aha pea te mea matua hei pupuri i ngā kaihaka?

    What would say. What is your key element in terms of maintaining kaihaka?

    Te whānaungatanga, “Kuhu mai, noho mai” tētahi o aku tino kōrero.

    Mena kua noho koe ki Hātea, ka noho mai. mō ake, he whānau ki a mātou.

    Rua tekau mā tahi ō mātou tau ināianei, ā, te maha o ngā tangata nō ngā iwi katoa ka kuhu mai, ā, ko te mea nui ko te whanaungatanga, e manaaki ana i ō mātou tāngata ki waho o te papa. Kua tae mātou ki te wā e taea ana e mātou tō mātau kapa te manaaki, te whakaiti i te nuinga o ngā utu o ngā kaupapa nā ngā utu kei te whakahokia mai, me ngā ara kua para kētia.

    The relationships. “Once in, always in” One of my favourite quotes.

    If you've ever been in Hātea, you’re in Forever. We’re a family.

    We are 21 years now, and we’ve had a lot of people from all tribes come through our ranks and our biggest thing is whānaungatanga, looking after our people off the stage. And so, we're at a time now where we're able to look after our group, subsidize most of the things that are going on due to the utu that's being put in and some of the paths that have been paved.

    Engari ko te manaaki i ō mātou mema. Kua kore mātou ki te kore ō mātou mema, ka ngākau whakaute mātou ki a rātou katoa. Ahakoa te tangata ka tae mai, ahakoa tō āhua, ahakoa kāore anō koe kia haka, haere mai. Kua whai wāhi koe. He aha te mea nui ko te tangata.

    But it's looking after our members. We're no one without our members, and we appreciate them all. Anybody who turns up, it doesn't matter what you look like or you've never done hakas before, haere mai, your in. What is the main thing? It is people.

    Ko te whakawhanaungatanga i roto i ngā mahi. Āe, he uaua ki taku whakapae, ki te pupuri i tō rōpū ki tērā āheitanga. Heoi anō, ka puritia pēnei i te pupuri i te whānau. He whānau kotahi mātou.

    We just get to know them, and they find out who we are through ngā mahi. And yeah, I think it's hard to do, to maintain your roopū in that way, but we maintain it like our whānau. Everyone's our whānau.

    Kia ora, nā runga i te mōhio ko ēnei hoputanga ka hoatu ki ā tātou tamariki hei ngaungautanga, te hinengaro, kia ngote ki te manawa, kia rongo i ngā mea papai o tō tātou takiwā nei, o tō tātou rohe nei. He aha ētahi kupu akiaki ki ngā taitamariki?

    Thank you. Knowing that these recordings will be given to our children for their minds to chew on, the heart to absorb, to hear the good things of our region, of our home, what are some encouraging words for the children?

    Jobi:

    Āe, me ū, kia ū tonu ki ngā mahi, me aro ki te tika ki roto i ngā mahi, me kapo i te reo. Kia kaha tonu, he uaua te mahi Māori ki roto i tēnei ao hurihuri. Nō reira āe, ko te whāingā hei oranga mō tātou ko te reo tērā. Nō reira kia kaha koutou ki te kapo i te reo.

    Jobi:

    Yeah, keep at it, keep going. You need to focus on the accuracy of the task, you need to grasp the language. It’s hard to be Māori in this evolving world. So, yeah, the goal for our well-being is the language. So, keep strong in learning the language.

    Tuhi, kupu akiaki āu?

    Tuhi, do you have any encouraging words?

    Tautoko pau te kaha ahau ngā kōrero tōku pāpā, me mau tonu. Ehara tēnei kapa, mea te kapa haka mō mātou, ā, e tika ana me ora tonu mō ngā taitamariki, mō ngā maramara e heke tonu mai ana me te mea anō, He waka whakarauora reo e kaha ake ai te reo. koirā i āwhina mai i taku reo i roto i aku mihi. He waiata aku mihi. Kua puta au ki te ao. Nāna au i tuku ki te ao, tekau mā ono noa iho taku pakeke.

    I wholeheartedly support what my father said, hold on to it. This group, kapa haka is not just for us. Also, rightfully so, it needs to stay alive for the children and generations to come. Also, kapa haka is a vehicle to revitalize our reo, make reo much stronger. That's what helped me with reo just in my mihi. I just mihi songs. And I've been around the world. It took me around the world and I'm only 16.

     Āe, kia kaha.

    Yeah, give it heaps.

    Kua nawhe tēnā? Ka mutu e mihi ana ki a kōrua kua whai wā ki te horapa pai i ngā kōrero kua whakawhārikitia i tēnei rā. Anō te pai te noho a te teina me te tuakana, te tuakana ki te teina. Ki te kite i tērā āhuatanga, me pono aku kōrero ka kore e tino kitea i ēnei rā engari ko koutou tērā e whakawhanake ana kia noho ngātahi te whānau, kia mahi tahi te whānau. Nō reira e mihi ana ki a koutou tēnā kōrua, tēnā kōrua. Tēnā tātou katoa.

    Is that enough? I acknowledge you both for being with us and sharing what you have shared with us today. How good was it having the different generations together. That sort of thing is rare these days. But you guys are striving to keep the family tight-knit, for the family to work together. So, I salute you. Thank you both. Thanks to us all.

    Jobi:

    Ka pai, me mihi whakahoki ki a koe. Taku waimarie te noho i te taha o tāku tama me te rongo ki ōna whakaaro. Nō reira tēnā koutou homai tēnei wāhanga ki a māua. Ko te tūmanako kia whai koura ngā rangatahi i roto i ēnei kōrero waihotanga, nō reira tēnā koutou, tēnā tātou.

    Jobi:

    Thank you. I need to return the thanks. I was fortunate to sit with my son and to hear his thoughts. So, thank you for offering this platform to us. And hopefully your young ones pursue what has been shared. So, I thank you all.

    Kia ora.

    Thank you.

     

     

     

     

     

    [ Accordion ]

     

     

    Te Reo Māori

    Te Reo Pākehā

    Nau mai, tau mai e taku manu takiata, taku manu takiwaka o te ao wātea. Tēnā koe e tūrama nei i te ngākau o tangata pūtake runga, pūtake raro, pūtake ira pou tangata, te hōkai-nuku, te hōkai-rangi, te hōkai i ngā ara tapuwae i a Tāne-rore.

     

     

    Tēnā tāua, Tūheimoa, i tēnei rā tā tāua matapaki i te rangi nei mō Te Ao Haka: tō wheako i Te Ao Haka, te orokohanga o tō Ao Haka. He aha pea ō awhero, ō wawata ā haere ake nei i Te Ao Haka? He aha pea hoki ētahi kupu akiaki? Koirā rawa te horopaki whānui o tā tāua kōrero i te rangi nei.

     

     

    Nā, kia whakamahuki mai ki ngā tauira o ngā kura, ko wai koe? He aha hoki te orokohanga o tō Ao Haka?

    Welcome and settle here my morning bird, my medium bird which unlocks the world.

    Thank you for illuminating the hearts of humans who originate from the heavens and earth, the human pillar who journeys about the earth and heaven, the journey which follows the footsteps of Tāne-rore.

     

    Greetings Tūheimoa, today we will discuss Te Ao Haka: your Te Ao Haka experiences and the origins of your Te Ao Haka. What are perhaps some of your Te Ao Haka aspirations and goals moving forward? What are some words of encouragement? That’s the gist of what we will be discussing today.

     

     

    Now, please explain to the students of our schools who you are. How did your Te Ao Haka journey begin?

    Ngā mihi tuatahi ki a koe i whakatau i au i tēnei rā. Ka tika, me mihi atu ki ngā tauira katoa i whai wā te ako i tēnei mea, te haka.

    Firstly, I would like to acknowledge you for welcoming me today. It is only right that I also acknowledge all the students who have chosen to pursue haka.

    Ko Tūheimoa Maruera tōku ingoa. He uri ahau nō Ngāti Ruanui, nō Ngāruahinerangi hoki, nō ngā hapū o Ngāti Tūpito me Ngāti Manu-hiakai, nō ngā marae o Pariroa me Te Aroha o Tītokowaru.

    My name is Tūheimoa Maruera. I descend from Ngāti Ruanui, and Ngāruahinerangi. I am from the subtribes of Ngāi Tūpito and Ngāti Manu-hiakai, and I am from Pariroa and Te Aroha o Tītokowaru marae.

    I tīmata taku orokohanga ki roto i Te Ao Haka, i te kōpū o tōku māmā. Ki reira i tīmata ai. I tōku whānau mai ki tēnei ao, i tuku atu ki Te Kōhanga Reo, Te Kōhanga Reo o Kautu-ki-te-rangi e noho ana ki te marae o Taiporohēnui.

    My Te Ao Haka journey originates from the time when I was still in the womb of my mother. That’s where it all began. Since my birth into this world, I was sent to kōhanga reo, to Kautu-ki-te-rangi kōhanga reo, which is situated at Taiporohēnui marae.

    Ka rua, i haere ki Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Ngāti Ruanui. I noho mō te kotahi wāhanga, kātahi hūnuku tātou ki tētahi kura auraki, ki Te Ramanui, ki roto o Te Hāwera.

    Secondly, I attended Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Ngāti Ruanui. I stayed for one term and then we moved to a mainstream school, to Te Ramanui which is in Te Hāwera.

    Ki reira i noho mō ngā tau e ono, kātahi hūnuku ki Pātea. I noho ki Te Kura o Pātea, ko tērā kapa, ko Pārara ki Te Uru

    I stayed there for six years before moving to Pātea. I attended Te Kura o Pātea, and the group called Pārara ki Te Uru.

    Pārara ki Te Uru, kia ora.

    Pārara ki Te Uru, thank you.

    Pārara ki Te Uru, te ingoa o te puna o Turi. I ngā wā o mua i roto hoki taku pāpā i roto i tērā kapa.

    Pārara ki Te Uru is the name of Turi’s pond. In yesteryears my father was also in that group.

    Nē? Koirā tonu tōna kura?

    Ka pai.

    Really? Was that his school?

    Wow.

    Āe

    Yes.

    Atu i Te Kura o Pātea, i haere ki Te Kura Takawaenga o Te Hāwera. I tū hei kaihaka mō rātou, ka mutu, ki Te Wharekura o Ngāti Ruanui, ki roto i te kapa o Te Kūreitanga. 

    Other than Pātea School, I attended Te Hāwera Intermediate. I was a performer for them at that school, furthermore I was also performer for Te Kūreitanga group at Te Wharekura o Ngāti Ruanui.

    Nā te kōtui o ngā kura Aho Matua o Taranaki: mai Te Pi’ipi’inga o Ngā Kakano mai i Rangiātea, Ngāruahinerangi me Ngāti Ruanui, koirā mō te kura. Mō ngā kapa pakeke, ko Ngāti Ruanui ki Taranaki Tū mai, Aotea Utanganui, ki ngā w’akataetae ā-motu, ā-rohe hoki. Me te karapu o Pātea.

    Due to the interlinking between the Aho Matua schools of Taranaki: From Te Pi’ipi’inga o Ngā Kākano mai i Rangiātea, Ngāruahinerangi and Ngāti Ruanui. Those are the schools. In regards to senior groups, there’s Ngāti Ruanui ki Taranaki Tū mai, Aotea Utanganui who have participated in regional and national competitions. Pātea club as well.

    Tēnā koe, tēnā koe me tēnā te orokohanga o tō Ao Haka. Ka hoki atu ki te orokohanga rā anō, arā, i te kōpū. Ko wai tō whaea? He aha i kī ai koe i tīmata Te Ao Haka i te kōpū o tō whaea?

    Thank you for giving a brief explanation regarding the inception of your Haka world. Now, let’s return back to the beginning, to the womb. Who is your mother? Why did you say that your Te Ao Haka journey originated from when you were in your mother’ womb?

    Ko Janine Maruera tōku māmā. I te wā i noho au ki tōna kōpū, i te parakatihi ia mō tētahi kapa - ko Tūtahi Manawatū pea? Tētahi o ngā kapa.

    My mother is Janine Maruera. While I was still in her womb, she was practising for one of the groups, perhaps for Tūtahi Manawatū?

    Āe, āe, mahara au, āe.

    Yes indeed, I remember.

    Engari, kāore anō ia i tū nā te mea i puta mai au ki te ao. Nā reira, kāore ia e taea te whai wā te tū engari kei reira tonu mātou.

    But she didn’t end up taking the stage because she had given birth to me. Therefore, even though she wasn’t able to perform, we were still present.

    Kia ora, kia ora. Nā, ka puta ia i tērā kapa, i whai wheako koe? E mahara ana koe ki tērā kapa? Tūtahi Manawatū?

    Thank you. Once she left that group, did you learn any new experiences? Do you remember that group Tūtahi Manawatū?

    Āe, nā te mea kei reira tonu a Te Tū Mataora

    Yes, because Te Tū Mataora is still there.

    Kia ora, koirā te kapa hou i ahu mai i Tūtahi Manawatū? Kia ora i tēnā whakapapa.

    Thank you, is that the new group which was born from Tūtahi Manawatū? Thank you for explaining that genealogy.

    Āe, āe ko rātou hoki tō mātou whānau, tō mātou kapa teina me kī, tuakana aha atu. Āe, he whānau tahi tātou katoa.

    Yes, they are also our family, let’s say our junior group, senior group or whatever. We are all one family.

    Ka pai, a, ko Te Tū Mataora te kapa, ko tēhea rohe tēnā?

    That’s good so Te Tū Mataora is the group, from which region?

    Ki Rangitāne.

    From Rangitāne.

    Ki Rangitāne, ka pai. Nā, he aha - ka hoki mai a māmā ki roto ki Taranaki, nē? Ki Aotea Utanganui? Kei te tika tēnā? Ka pai. Tēnā, korerohia mai tērā ao.

    From Rangitāne, awesome. So, your mother returned to Taranaki, right? To Aotea Utanganui? Is that correct? Great. Please, further elaborate.

    Āe.I tūtaki aku mātua ki te karapu o Pātea, ki reira rāua e tūtaki ai. Nā reira, he hōnore nui ki te hoki atu, he hōnore mōku, kia tū hei kaihaka mō rātou. Nā rātou i poipoi i tēnei, nā ngā kuia a Nanny Bib, Nanny Bub, Koro Del - rātou katoa.

    Yes, my parents met at the Pātea club. Therefore, it’s a huge privilege to be able to return there, it’s a privilege to be able to stand as a performer. They all nurtured me, all the elderly women, Nanny Bib, Nanny Bub, Koro Del - all of them.

    Nā rātou tēnei i poipoi, mei kore mō rātou, ka kore rawa au e noho ki tēnei hei kanohi mō Taranaki. Nā reira, ko tōku waimarie nō Taranaki ahau, he kaihaka nō Aotea.

    They brought me up and I’m lucky to have them. I would never have been able to be a spokesperson for Taranaki. Therefore, I am fortunate that I am from Taranaki, and that I am a performer from Aotea.

    Āna, āna. Tēnā, he aha ētahi o ngā wheako i wheakohia e koe, i a koe e pakeke mai ana i te kapa o Aotea Utanganui, oti noa tēnā kaupapa rongonui tērā tikanga, tērā waka o Pātea Māori Club?

    Right, right. Now, what are some of the experiences that you experienced while you were growing up within the Aotea Utanganui group, moreover, while you grew up within the traditions of that famous group Pātea Māori Club?

    Ko tētahi mea ko te waiata.

    One thing was singing.

    Ko te waiata.

    Singing?

    Ko te mahi waiata, ehara i te mea me noho koe ki konei, koinei te note. Kāo - me noho ki te taha o te kuia, w’akarongo, kei a koe te tikanga.

    When learning to sing, it’s not as if you have to stay on this note or that note. No, you sit with the elderly women to listen and it’s up to you.

    Ka pai. Ko wai ētahi o ōu tino tauira waiata?

    That’s great. Who are some of your favourite singing role models?

    Nanny Bib.

    Nanny Bib.

    Nē?

    Is that right?

    Nā runga i tana reo teitei. I noho au ki tōna taha, he hōnore nui rawa atu tērā nā te mea, i ēnei rā kāore anō e mahi ērā, ētehi, ētehi.

    It’s due to her soprano voice. I sat with her, and that was an honour because nowadays that tradition isn’t really followed.

    Tika tonu ō kōrero, kāore he reo reka atu i te reo o tērā o ngā kapa. Tēnā, he aha tētahi o ōu tino waiata i a koe e pakeke mai ana?

    You are absolutely correct, there’s no better voice than that of that group. Now, what are some of your favourite songs while you were growing up?

    He maha.

    There are many.

    Ngā mea o Pātea Māori Club.

    Those of Pātea Māori Club.

    ‘Poi Harakeke’.

    Poi Harakeke

    He aha te…. Kāore au i te mōhio.

    What is that song? It’s unfamiliar.

    [Ka waiata – 7:07]

    [Sings waiata]

    Koirā te whiti tuatahi.

    That’s the first verse.

    Te rerehua hoki Tūheimoa, me waiata pea mō te toenga o tēnei uiui, nē. Tēnā koe, tēnā koe i tō reo pāororo, tō reo tīorooro, iere rā i runga, tōiri, me te mea nei ko Nanny Bib tonu, nē, e puta ana i tō māngai. Ka mutu pea, Tūheimoa! Ka pai.

    Nā, mutu ana me huri te aro ki ō wheako i roto i te kura, nē? I roto i te kura. Nā, i kuraina koe i te kura auraki, te kura aunoa. Ko wai ō kaiako i roto i te kura aunoa?

    That’s beautiful Tūheimoa. I think that you should sing that for the remainder of the interview, aye? Thank you, thank you for the resounding voice, your high-pitched voice, soprano voice, and it’s as if it’s Nanny Bib who is singing. Awesome, Tūheimoa! Awesome.

    Now, let’s turn to focus on your experiences while you were at school, okay? Now at school, you attended a mainstream school. Who were your teachers at mainstream school?

    Ko ōku kaiako kapa haka, ko ōku mātua nā te mea i reira au. Koirā te take i noho rāua hei kaiako mō tērā kura. Ia te wā i nuku au, i nuku rāua hoki, nā reira, ki Te Ramanui, ki Pātea, ki Te Hāwera tae noa ki Te Kūreitanga.

    My kapa haka tutors were my parents because I was there. That’s the reason that they both remained as teachers for that school. Everytime that I moved, they also moved. From Te Ramanui, to Pātea, to Te Hāwera all the way to Te Kūreitanga.

    I reira taku pāpā e tangi ana i te rakuraku, engari i reira a māmā hei noho hei kaiwhakawā. He uaua tērā nā te mea he maha ō rāua wheako me whai e au. He taumaha anō hoki engari i wepua mō te hemo tonu atu. Ko te mea nui i mataara, i noho ki reira.

    My father was there playing the guitar, but my mother was always there to critique. That was difficult at times because they both had a lot of experience that I had to follow. It was also demanding because we were thrashed. But the main thing is that we were alert and remained there.

    Ko ō mātua ō kaiako i roto i te kura aunoa me tō whāki mai, āe, he uaua i ētahi wā, nē, kaha wepua. Engari, he aha pea ētahi o ō rautaki i āhei ai koe te tū maia, te tū pakari tonu ki te whakaputa i tō rerehua, i tō reo, i ngā waiata, i ngā ringa. He aha ō rautaki?

    Your parents were your teachers at mainstream school, and you mentioned that yes, it was difficult at times right, because you were thrashed. But what were perhaps some of the strategies that you used to stand confidently and strong in order to display your beauty, voice, song and actions? What were your strategies?

    Tuatahi, whakarongo.

    First and foremost, to listen.

    Ka pai.

    Right.

    He w’akarongo ki ōku mātua engari he mea tino rerekē rawa atu. Mēnā i te noho ōku mātua ki tēnei taha, ka noho au ki tērā atu taha. Ka huna, ka huna au mai i ōku mātua, engari i pai nā te mea te nuinga o ngā tamariki, koia tā rāua tamāhine, ka tū ia ki mua. Ehara i te mea he pai tērā ki au, kei te mahi tonu au, kei te puku kaha au i roto i ēnei mahi. Āe, koirā.

    To listen to your parents but it was also quite different. If my parents were sitting on this side, I would sit on the other side. I would hide away from my parents. But it was okay because the majority of the children were their daughters, they would stand in front. It wasn’t as if I took a liking to it, but I still did the work and I worked hard. That’s it.

    Nō reira, i kaha whakatūngia koe hei kaitātaki, hei tuakana i whakatuakanahia koe i roto i ērā āhuatanga, nā māmā me pāpā koe i pērā ai engari he pai tonu tērā nē?

    Therefore, were you put forward as a leader? As a senior performer? Were you put into a senior role within kapa haka? Was it like that because of your parents? Did you like that?

    Āe

    Yes.

    Āe, ka pai. Nā, he aha pea ētahi o ngā wheako, ngā waiaro pea i wheakohia e koe i ērā atu tangata, i ērā atu o ō hoa? He aha pea ō rātou waiaro ki a koe i roto i ērā horopaki mahi?

    Right. What were perhaps some of the experiences and attitudes that you experienced from others? From your friends? Within this context, what was their attitude towards you like?

    Ētehi i rawe, i tū ki tōku taha ki te mahi tonu. Engari, ētehi, āe, kāore i te pai ki au. Engari, ki ōku nei whakaaro, i kite rātou i te mahi tonu au.

    Some were really good and stood beside me to carry on. But others, they weren’t so good. But I believe that they still observed doing the work.

    I te pukumahi au nā reira i pukumahi rātou. Koirā te mea nui mōku ki roto i Te Ao Haka, kia pukumahi i roto i ngā mea katoa: te reo waiata, ngā mahi ā-ringa. Ahakoa ka kī mai te kaiako 50%, me 100% i ngā wā katoa. Koirā mōku, i ngā mahi ā-kanohi, ērā hoki, wairua, te tinana, ngā taha katoa o te ao kapa me tukua ki taumata kē.

    I worked hard, and so did they. That’s the main thing in Te Ao Haka. To work hard in everything that you do: the language, the singing, the actions. Regardless of if the tutor says 50%, you should give it 100% all the time. That’s what I think, from your facials, right down to the ethos, the body language, and all aspects of kapa haka, you should go beyond.

    Ka pai, karawhiua katoatia 150%. Ka pai.

    Awesome, give it your all 150%.

    150%.

    150%.

    Ka pai. Tēnā koe i ērā rautaki, oti noa, i ērā momo tauira katoa nei, hei whāngai, hei tauira pea ki ō hoa e whanake mai ana i tēnei ao. Nā, ka whanake ake koe ki ngā kura auraki, ka hoki koe ki roto ki te kura kaupapa. He aha ētahi o ngā tikanga i rerekē pea ai te kura aunoa, ki ngā mahi o roto i te kura kaupapa Māori?

    Great. Thank you for sharing those strategies, more over thank you for sharing those examples with your friends who are coming through. Now, once you went to mainstream schools, did you ever return to kura kaupapa? What perhaps are some of the traditions which are different in mainstream and kura kaupapa Māori?

    Ko tētahi mea nui rawa atu, engari he rawe mōku, ko te reo Māori. I reo Māori te katoa o ngā w’akaharatau - i rawe tērā ki au. Me ngā waiata, me ngā kaupapa o ia o ngā waiata, mēnā ko Parihaka, ko te Pāhuatanga, te reo Māori, te Aho Matua, te raukura. Ērā mea katoa, i rawe ērā kaupapa ki au.

    One of the major differences is the Māori language which I like. All practices were conducted in the Māori language, and I really liked that. I also took a liking to the songs and the themes of each song. For instance, if it was Parihaka, the confiscation, the Māori language, Te Aho Matua, the sacred emblem. I love all those themes.

    Me te kōrero i te reo Māori ki ia o ngā w’akaharatau i pakeke ake tōku reo, ehara i te mea I roto i te akomanga noa iho, ki waho. I maumahara au ki tō tātou tū tuatahi, ko tō tātou poi ko “Te Rā o Māehe”. Koirā te wā tuatahi kua rangona au i tērā waiata me taku tangi nā te mea, i whakaaro “he ai kāore au i ako i tēnei i mua”. 

    And the fact that we spoke Māori at each practice helped to develop my language. It wasn’t just in the classroom, but outside as well. I remember our first performance; it was our poi “Te Rā o Māehe”. That was the first time that I had heard that song, and I cried because I thought to myself, “why had I not learnt this song earlier”.

    Engari, i waimarie nā te mea i ako ki reira, ki raro i te maru o Whaea Ngāpera. Nā reira, i pai tērā ahakoa i rerekē ki ngā kapa o Aotea ko tātou tērā, ko Te Kūreitanga tērā, ko Te Kāhui Maunga - koirā te mea pai rawa atu ki au.

    But I was fortunate that I learnt it there, under the guidance of Whaea Ngāpera. Therefore, it was alright despite being different to those groups of Aotea, that was us, Te Kūreitanga, Te Kāhui Maunga - that was the most enjoyable part to me.

    Ka pai. Tēnā, he aha ētahi atu o ngā mahi, i tua atu o ngā akoranga i rongo i rō kopa, ka kuhu atu koe ki te takiwā o kapa haka, engari kia pakari ai koe i roto i ngā mahi kapa haka, he aha ētahi atu anō?

     

    I te mea, e mōhio ana au he kura parore haere tō kura, ēnei kura Aho Matua. He aha ētahi atu o ngā kaupapa, ngā momo huihuinga o Taranaki i whakapakari tō māramatanga ki ngā mea i te hakaina e koe?

    Great. What else did you do? Other than the lessons learnt within your own house, once you enter the realm of kapa haka, you mature in kapa haka, but is there anything else?

     

     

     

    Because I know that your school is an Aho Matua school that travels around. What are some of the events and occasions in Taranaki that you attended which helped to give you understanding to the haka which you performed?

    I te tau 2018 i tīpako tētahi kaiako i au kia haere ki Te Arawa mō tētahi wānanga a Te Matatini mō ngā rangatahi. I noho ki reira mō te kotahi wiki. Ki reira, i noho ki te taha o ngā kaihaka o te kura, me te whakarongo ki a rātou me te rerekētanga a te mita, te takahi, te aha atu, aha atu.

    In 2018, one of the teachers chose me to attend a Te Matatini symposium in Te Arawa for teenagers. We stayed there for one week. While there, we intermingled with performers of the school, listening to them, the different dialects, the stamping of the foot and many other things.

    Te reo, ngā momo reo kei roto i a tātou, ngā momo kaupapa ka kōrero engari, i rawe nā te mea i whakarongo ki tangata rerekē ki roto i Te Ao Haka. Tō tātou iho pumanawa pērā i a Hera

    The language, the type of language that they used, the variety of themes that were discussed, but it was awesome because we were able to listen to different people within the realm of Te Ao Haka. Our kapa haka idol Hera, was also one.

    Te Kurapa?

    Te Kurapa?

    Āe mai i Muriwhenua

    Yes, from Muriwhenua.

    He aha tāna? He aha tētahi o āna pitopito kōrero?

    What did she have to say? What’s one thing that she spoke about?

    Ko te mea nui ko tāna tū mōna, nā te mea ki te uru atu ia ki roto i tētahi rūma ka tiro, nā tōna ātaahua anō hoki mō tōna mātauranga ki roto i Te Ao Haka. Ia te rā ko tētahi tangata rerekē pērā i a Wetini Mitai-Ngātai, i rawe, i rawe āna kōrero. 

    The main thing was standing for herself. When she enters the room, due to her beauty she catches your attention, and also her knowledge of Te Ao Haka. Every day there was a different speaker like Wetini Mitai-Ngātai, he was excellent, his presentation was awesome.

    Nā reira, i hoki atu ki te kura me te hora i ēnei mātauranga kia pai ake tā mātou mātauranga i roto i Te Ao Haka, ehara mōku anake. Koirā te mea pai rawa atu ki au hoki.

    Therefore, I returned to school to share what I had learnt so that our knowledge of Te Ao Haka would improve, it wasn’t for me to keep it to myself. That was one of the positives as well.

    Ka pai, rawe tērā tauira me te mea he kaupapa kia whakamahia a Te Matatini mō te wheako i whai i a koutou. Ko wai ētahi atu o ō hoa i haere i tō taha?

    That’s good, these examples are awesome, and it’s only right that we acknowledge Te Matatini for this experience that you were a part of. Who were some of your friends who attended alongside yourself?

    Ko Amokura Maruera ētahi, ko wai atu? Te Huikau, ko Bazz mai i te kapa o Raukura - nō kapa rerekē tātou katoa. Wātene nō Ngā Mokopuna, Neis nō tētahi atu kura. 

    Amokura Maruera was one, who else? Te Huikau, Bazz from Raukura - everyone was all from different groups. Wātene from Ngā Mokopuna, and Neis from another school.

    Engari nā te kotui i a tātou katoa i mōhio tātou e ngākaunui ana tēnei mea te kapa haka, koirā noa iho, koirā te take kei konei tātou. Ētahi nō Wanganui, tō tātou kura tuakana a Tupoho, a Kokohuia hoki i reira hoki rātou mō tēnei kaupapa e manakonui ana.

    But it was due to connecting us all knowing that we were all passionate about kapa haka, that was all, that’s the reason that we attended. There were some from Wananganui, from our senior school of Tupoho, there were also some from Kokohuia who also had a desire for this occasion.

    Ka rawe. Nā, hoki mai ki te kāinga: he aha ētahi o ngā kaupapa o te kāinga e whakaihiihi ana i a koe i te wā ka tū koe ki te waiata pena i a “Te Rā o Māehe”. He aha tētahi kaupapa i whai māramatanga ai koe ki te horopaki o tērā waiata?

    Awesome. Now let’s return back here to home: What are some of the events here at home which ignite you when you stand to perform, for example “Te Rā o Māehe”. What are some events or occasions which help you to understand the context of that song?

    Ko te tū o Ngāti Ruanui ki Taranaki Tū Mai. I tū mō te waiata “Kāore te Pō.”

    It was when Ngāti Ruanui ki Taranaki Tū mai performed. They performed “Kāore te Pō”.

    Āe

    Yes.

    I rawe nā te mea he rerekē - kāore anō kua rangona i tērā engari i rawe te whakapuaki i ngā kōrero. Āe, ki te tangi, aha atu, engari te whakapuaki o kare ā-roto. Anō hoki ko tētahi waiata, ko te waiata tira “He Kororia”. 

    I really enjoyed it because it was different - I had never heard that song before but the delivery of the song was really good. Yes, crying and so on, but expressing those feelings. In addition to this, the choral “He Korōria”. 

    Nā, reira he hononga o Ruaputahanga ki a Turongo, tō tātou hononga ki roto i a Waikato. He rawe ērā kōrero ki au: te hononga, te whakapapa. Ko te mahi kapa haka tētahi mea e taea ana te mārama mōku i roto i ngā waiata, i ngā mōteatea, i ngā haka koirā te mea nui.

    Now, Ruaputahanga is connected to Tūrongo, our connection to Waikato. I really like those oral histories, the connections, the genealogy. Kapa haka is a vehicle that helps me find understanding within songs, traditional chants, and haka. That is the main thing.

    Ka pai, tēnā koe i tēnā whakamārama. Nā, kua huri te ihu o tō tāua waka kōrero ināianei ki tō ao whakataetae. I tīmata te whakataetae - pēhea tō pakeke i a koe ka tīmata ki te whakataetae i Te Ao Haka?

    That’s awesome, thank you for that explanation. Now, let’s focus more on competition. How old were you when you first started competing in Te Ao Haka?

    I Te Ao Haka – e 9 pea? Ki Te Ramanui mō te Tātarakihi

    In Te Ao Haka? Maybe 9? At Te Ramanui for Tātarakihi.

    Tatarakihi, he aha rā tēnei kaupapa, a Tātarakihi?

    Tātarakihi, what is that event, Tātarakihi?

    Ko te whakataetae mō ngā tamariki o Taranaki, te whakataetae ā-rohe. I rawe ērā nā te mea i harikoa. Ehara i te mea ko te whakataetae te mea nui.

    This is a regional competition for children of Taranaki. Those were awesome because it was a happy time. It’s not as if competing was the overall goal.

    Āe, āe, ehara i te mea he whakataetae i te wā tuatahi, maumahara au ki te mea tuatahi i te Bowl of Brooklyn’s. Wareware au ki taku pakeke engari, ehara i te mea he whakataetae i tēnā wā. 

     

    Nā, ka whanake ake koe i roto i te Tātarakihi, he aha te whakataetae ka whai ake i tērā o ngā whakataetae i Taranaki nei?

    Yes indeed, it’s not as if competition comes first, I still remember my first competition at the Bowl of Brooklyn’s. I forget how old I was, and it may not have been a competition at that time. 

     

     

    Now, as you developed within Tātarakihi, what competition within Taranaki succeeded that?

    Mō Aotea Utanganui,

    For Aotea Utanganui.

    He mea motuhake kei reira.

    It was one specific to the area.

    Tekau mā whā taku pakeke i tū ki roto o Wanganui.

    I was 14 when I performed at Wanganui.

    Arohamai, mō Aotea Utanganui kapa tuakana? Ā, 14 tō pakeke i roto i ngā whakataetae o Aotea?

    Forgive me, for Aotea Utanganui senior group? Were you 14 when you competed at Aotea regionals?

    Āe

    Yes.

    Ka pai. 14? Wow! Pēhea i tētahi whakataetae tuakana he aha ngā kare a roto i roto I a koe i tērā wā?

    Awesome. 14? Wow! Considering that it was a senior competition, how were your feelings at that time?

    I mataku rawa atu.

    I was completely terrified.

    He aha i mataku ai koe?

    Why were you terrified?

    Nā te mea ko ōku mātua ngā kaiako, anō hoki he kaihaka hou. I au e tamariki ana, ko au tērā e oma ana i waenga i ngā rārangi, e oma ana ki te taha o ōku kaihanga, aha atu. Engari, koirā taku tau tuatahi hei kaihaka. I uaua, i pukuriri ētahi wā nā te mea i whakaaro au ka kore rawa au e whai tūnga

    Because my parents were the tutors, and I was also a new performer. When I was younger, that was me running around in between the lines, running around with my cousins and whatnot. But that was my first time standing as a performer. It was difficult and frustrating at times because I thought that I wouldn’t make the cut.

    He aha i whakaaro ai koe i tēnā momo whakaaro?

    Why would you think like that?

    Kia pono aku kōrero, i te mangere te tuatahi, i mangere nā te mea i whakaaro koinei aku mātua, ka tuku au ki mua mō ngā noho e rua. Atu i tērā, i tīni aku whakaaro kia pukumahi, nā te mea kei te pukumahi te katoa. Kei te waiata rātou mōku, kia kaua e pērā, me waiata rātou mō rātou anake. Me waiata au, mō au. Koirā ngā mahi.

    I must be honest, firstly being lazy. I was lazy because those were my parents, they sent me to the front for two of the practices. From there, I then changed my thought process to be hard working, because everyone else was working hard. They are singing for me, and it shouldn’t be like that. They should sing for themselves, and me for myself. That’s the job.

    Ka pai. Nō reira, i tīmata ngā whakaaro, i pakeke ake ngā w’akaaro i taua wā i te mea he tauira i roto i tērā kapa hei whāinga mōu. Ko wai ētahi o ōu tino tauira? Āe, kua kōrerohia a Nan Bib mō te taha ki te waiata. Ko wai pea ētahi o ō tauira kaihaka?

    Okay. So, the thoughts started to mature at that time because there was an example set within the group that you wanted to achieve for yourself? Who were your idols? Yes, you previously mentioned Nan Bib for singing. Who are perhaps some of your performer idols?

    Ki roto o Aotea Utanganui, ko Aunty Sharon. Āe, he tangata noho ki muri engari ki te mōhio ia ki ōna mahi, ka wepua, ka kī ki te kapa “koinei taku tūnga - ki te pirangi koe i tēnei me whawhai”.

    Within Aotea Utanganui, there’s Aunty Sharon. She is the type of person who will sit at the back, but she knows her stuff, she will trash everyone and say to the group, “this is my spot - if you want it then you’ll have to battle me for it”.

    Ka pai, ka pai. Nā, he aha ētahi o ō tino whakataetae i tae atu koe i tō Aotea Utanganui taha?

    Amazing. Now what are some of your favourite competitions that you have attended alongside Aotea Utanganui?

    Ko te tū ki Rātana.

    Our stand at Rātana.

    Ko te tū ki Rātana. He tū ki ngā whakataetae ā-rohe tēnā? Ka pai, i nā tata tonu nei tēnā nē?

    Your performance at Rātana. Was that the regional performance? That was just held recently, right?

    Āe, āe. I rawe tērā.

    Yes indeed, that was awesome.

    He aha i rawe ai?

    Why was it awesome?

    Nā te mea i pakeke aku whakaaro, i pakeke taku tū. Ki te tiro au ki tērā mea ki Wanganui, ki te taha o tēnei mea ki Rātana, he rerekē rawa atu. He tangata rerekē, he tangata e mōhio ana ki ngā kaupapa o ngā waiata - ehara i te mea kei te waiata mō te waiata noa iho. He kaupapa - koirā te mea e whakapuaki nei e au.

    Because my thoughts and performance have matured. If I were to look back at that performance at Wanganui and compare them both, they are totally different. They are different people. There’s a person who knows what they are singing about, and not just singing for the sake of singing. That’s what I’m trying to say.

    Ka pai. He aha ētahi o ngā kaupapa i tērā o ngā tū? Kāore e kore he kaupapa nui i te mea kua tae atu ki Rātana.

    Okay. What were some of the themes of that performance? There’s no doubt that there were some major topics of discussion which were taken to Rātana.

    Ko te poi tētahi mea tino rerekē, e kōrero ana mō te maina papa moana.

    The poi was one thing which was different, it spoke about mining out at sea.

    I roto o Pātea?

    At Pātea?

    Āe, i roto o Pātea. He kaupapa hōhonu engari i rawe te tuku atu ki te marea. Koinei tā mātou raru, haere mai ki te tautoko, ka whawhai tonu mō te whenua, mō te moana. Nā te moana tātou i whāngai, me whāngai tātou i te moana.

    Yes, within Pātea. It was quite an in-depth topic but it was wonderful how the message was conveyed to the multitudes. That’s one of our problems, we come to support, we continue to fight for the land and ocean. It is the ocean which provides us with sustenance, so it’s only right that we reciprocate that.

    Koirā te mea… te kaupapa o te waiata. Anō hoki, ko ngā karakia pēnei i a ‘Hiki’, i a ‘Kī mai’, i uru atu ki roto i tēnei waiata.

    That was it, the theme of the song. There was also the karakia like ‘Hiki’ and ‘Kī mai’ which were used within the song.

    Ka pai. He aha te take i whakaurua ērā waiata, ērā karakia, ērā poi atua ki roto ki tērā o ngā waiata?

    That’s good. What was the reason behind using those karakia within the song, using those poi atua within that song?

    Nā te mea he taonga nui ērā, he taonga nui hoki te moana ki a tātou, ki Pātea. Ko te moana ko tātou. Ko ēnei poi atua, ēnei poi karakia he taonga anō hoki. Anō hoki, he rerekē ki te nuinga o tātou i whakaaro, tērā pea, ki te kotui i ēnei, ka tuku ki tētahi whakataetae, ka whakarongo.

    Because those are great treasures, the ocean is also a great treasure to us of Pātea. We are one with the ocean. These poi atua, these poi karakia are also treasures. It’s different from everyone else, we were thinking that if we intertwine these and perform at a competition, everyone will be able to hear.

    Āna, me te aha ko te horopaki tonu o ērā karakia, he horopaki moana, nē?

    Right, and as a result the context of those karakia are related to the ocean, right?

    Āe

    Yes.

    He horopaki waka nō reira e tino hāngai ana ki tērā kaupapa. Ka pai, ka koke atu, ka hoki ki tērā atu taha whakataetae ōu i roto i te kura tuarua. He aha ētahi o ngā wheako i wheakohia? He aha ētahi o ngā whakataetae i tae atu koutou i Te Kūreitanga?

    The context is the canoe therefore it relates to that theme. Great, now let’s move forward, let’s return to that other side of yours, competing at secondary school. What are some experiences? What competitions did Te Kūreitanga make it to?

    I au i roto i Te Kūreitanga, i tū ki Wanganui mō tētahi whakataetae ā-rohe, ki te whakataetae ā-motu ki Te Papaioea. Ka mutu, ko taku tūnga whakamutunga ki Ōpunake.

    While I was at Te Kūreitanga, we stood at a regional competition which was held in Wanganui and a national competition held in Palmerston North. Furthermore, that was my final performance in Ōpunake.

    Ki Ōpunake.

    In Ōpunake.

    Mō tētahi whakataetae ā-rohe. Mō ngā tau e rua i noho au, i tū au hei kaitātaki ki te taha o Tatiana rāua ko Tika, me tō tātou hononga i rawe te tū. I te mōhio kei konei au mō rāua, i reira hoki rāua mōku. Ki te pērā, ka rawe ngā mea katoa.

    For a regional competition. For the duration of the two years while I was there, I was also the leader alongside Tatiana and Tika. And our connection, the performance was awesome. We knew that I was there to back them both up and vice versa. And if it’s like that, then everything will be amazing.

    He aha te take e rua ngā kaitātaki wahine?

    What was the reason behind having two female leaders?

    Kāore au i te tino mōhio, engari mōku i pai nā te mea i taurite i ngā mea kia kaua e taumaha ki runga i te kotahi tangata. Ahakoa ko Tika anake, i reira hoki māua, māua ko Tatiana.

    I don’t really know, but it was good for me because everything was balanced, and the burden wasn’t left to just one person to carry. Even though Tika was the only male leader, Tatiana and I were both there to support him.

    Ka pai, tokotoru. Tino pakari tonu koutou, mahara ana ki tēnā wā. Nō reira, i Te Papaioea, koirā tā koutou… He aha te ingoa o taua whakataetae i Te Papaioea?

    Great, three leaders. You are all quite strong, I still remember that performance. Now, this was in Palmerston North, what was the name of the competition in Palmerston North?

    He Puapua.

    He Puapua.

    He Puapua, he haka kua wareware i au.

    He Puapua, a haka, I’ve forgotten.

    Me au hoki.

    Me as well.

    Nā, he aha te kaupapa o tō koutou tū i tērā tau?

    Now what was the main theme of your performance that year?

    Ko Taranaki, Taranaki te take o tō mātou tū. Ko te waiata tira e kōrero ana mō ngā kōrero o Parihaka.

    It was Taranaki, Taranaki was the backbone of our performance. The choral spoke about the oral histories of Parihaka.

    He aha rawa? He maha ngā kōrero mō Parihaka. He aha te aronga matua?

    What exactly? There are many oral histories regarding Parihaka. What was the main focus?

    ‘Ko taku raukura, he manawanui ki te ao’.

    ‘My sacred emblem is an assurance to the world’.

    Ka pai

    Great.

    ‘He rau rengarenga nō roto o te raukura’. Āe, ko te whakaeke ko tō mātou hononga ki Te Papaioea, ki Rangitane, ki ngā uri o Whātonga.

    ‘A herb of healing from the sacred emblem’. Yes, our entrance was our connection to Palmerston North, to Rangitāne, to the descendants of Whātonga.

    Ka pai, ko wai te waka?

    Awesome, which waka?

    Kurahaupo

    Kurahaupō.

    Ka pai, koirā hoki te painga, nē? Ahakoa ko Aotea, nō Aotea ngā kura o Ngāti Ruanui, o Ngā Rua’ine, nā te piripiri ki ngā kura o te raki, ka whanui ake te titiro ki Taranaki whānui, ka ako i ērā kura katoa. 

     

     

    Ka pai, he aha rā te mōteatea? Te waiata tawhito.

    Sorry, repeat that again. No, it’s ok, that’s one of the advantages, right? Regardless of if it’s Aotea, the schools Ngāti Ruanui, Ngā Rua’ine are from Aotea, but due to working with schools in the north and the wider region of Taranaki, all the schools learn that.

     

    Ok, what was the traditional chant?

    ‘He poi rokiroki.’

    ‘He poi rokiroki’.

    Tēnā, he aha te ‘Poi rokiroki’?

    Now what is ‘Poi rokiroki’.

    He poi karakia me kī, he poi e kōrero ana mōu.

     

    Āe, ko koe tērā e tuku ana i ngā kōrero engari ka waiho mā te poi e whakapuaki i ngā kare ā-roto

    Let’s say that it is a karakia, it is a poi that speaks about yourself.

     

    Yes, it is you who is giving the oral story but it is left up to your poi to exhibit the emotions.

    Tika rawa atu. Ka pai, nā, he aha hoki te horopaki, he aha rawa rānei te karere i te tukuna i roto i tērā o ngā poi rokiroki?

    That is absolutely correct. Great, now what exactly was the context of the message that was portrayed in the poi rokiroki?

    Ko Te Puapua me ngā pakanga, ētahi o Waitara me te manu

    Te Puapua and the battles, those in Waitara And the bird.

    Me te manu

    And the bird.

    Koirā taku tino ko te manu

    The bird was my favourite.

    Ka pai, ka pai – ‘ko taku poi, he manu’, nē? Koirā hoki tētahi whakamāramatanga pea ki ā tātou hoa nē, ko tō tātou poi e poi nei tātou he momo manu tuku karere.

    Right, right - ‘my poi is a bird’, right?

    That’s one of the explanations to our friends, that our poi is likened to that of a bird which carries a message.

    Āe

    Yes.

    Ka pai, pai tēnā. Nā, he aha rā te waiata ā-ringa?

    Awesome. Now what about the action song?

    E kōrero ana mō ngā amo taketake o te maunga.

    It speaks about the amo taketake of the mountain. 

    Ka pai, he aha te amo taketake?

    Ok, what is that the amo taketake?

    Pēnei i ngā tangata a Huirangi, Koro Huirangi Waikerepuru, he huia e tuku ana ki te rangi mō tōna mahi pukumahi mō te reo. Koirā ētahi. E kōrero ana mō Rauru me te whiti tuatahi, ka waiata ngā tama. 

    Those leaders such as Huirangi, Koro Huirangi Waikerepuru, the noble who was sent to the heavens, and his determination to revive the language. That’s one. It talks about Rauru and the first verse is sung by the boys.

    Nā te mea ko te waiata e kōrero ana mō ngā tāne, nā reira ka waiho tērā taha ki a rātou. I whāngai i te reo kia taea e tātou ki te uru atu ki ngā kura kaupapa Māori, ki te whare wānanga mō te reo, aha atu rānei.

    Because the song speaks about the male, so that part of the song was left up to them. The language was fought for so that we may be able to attend kura kaupapa Māori, the Māori language in universities and so forth.

    Ka pai. Nō reira, ko tēnei kupu te amo taketake, he kupu e hāngai noa ana ki ngā Tane?

    Awesome. So, this work amo taketake, does it only relate to make?

    Kāo

    No.

    Kao, ngā tāne me ngā wāhine?

    No, both male and female?

    Āe

    Yes.

    Ka pai, ka pai. He kupu whakarite i te rangatira?

    Great, so it’s a metaphor for an esteemed leader?

    Āe, āe

    Yes.

    Nā, kōrerohia te poi.

    Now, let’s talk about the poi.

    Āe, ko te poi te mea rawe rawa atu mōku. Anō hoki he kōrero mō te hononga ki roto o Waikato, āe.

    Well, the poi is my favourite item. It also talks about our connection to Waikato, yes.

    Āe, ko Tāwhiao pea te kaupapa?

    Okay, was Tāwhiao perhaps the theme?

    Āe, Kīngi Tāwhiao. 

     

    Yes, Kīngi Tāwhiao. 

    Ko Kīngi Tāwhiao, he aha tētahi o ngā hononga matua i akona e koe i roto i tērā waiata?

    Kīngi Tāwhiao, what are one of the main connections that you learnt within that song?

    Tana hikoi mai ki Parihaka, i haere mai ia hei Matutaera, i hoki atu hei Tāwhiao.

    His march to Parihaka, he arrived as Matutaera and returned as Tāwhiao.

    Tēnā koe, tēnā koe i tēnā. Nā, ko ngā kiwei tonu tērā o te kete, purihia e Waikato, e Taranaki. Ka mutu pea! Nā, ko te haka, he aha te haka?

    Thank you for that. Now those are the handles of the basket which are held each by Waikato and Taranaki. Amazing! Now the haka, what was the haka?

    Taranaki Matarau

    Taranaki Matarau.

    Taranaki Matarau, he aha…he koke kōrero rānei tēnā, a Taranaki Matarau?

    Taranaki Matarau, what is that? Is it discussions around moving forward? Is that what isTaranaki Matarau about?

    Āe, he kōrero mō ngā rangatahi. Ka kī atu, “hei aha te kapa haka, he moumou tāima, hei aha te reo, me whiua atu ērā.” Kia huri ki ngā rangatahi, ehara i te mea kei te pērā ko te kapa haka tētahi mea nui rawa atu mō tātou. Ko tātou te iwi Māori, te kapa haka. Kei roto ngā waiata, ngā kōrero, ngā whakapapa, aha atu.

    Yes, it talks about the youth. It’s often said, “nevermind kapa haka, it’s a waste of time, forget about the language, forget about it all”. And we turn to the youth, it’s not as if it’s like that. Kapa haka is a major part of our world. Our Māori people, we are kapa haka. Within it are the songs, oral histories, genealogy and many more.

    Ngā whakataukī, ngā kīwaha, e taea te puta ki te ao, kia tiro atu te ao ki Aotearoa mō ngā mahi kapa haka. He pai ake i ētahi mea raruraru rawa atu.

    The proverbs and the idioms, they can be released to the world, so that the world can see New Zealand in terms of kapa haka. And that’s better than some of the problems.

    Koia, he oranga o roto, nē? He rongoā o roto o tēnei ao, Te Ao Haka, oti noa ngā tikanga katoa nē? Ka pai, ka whakakōpanihia ki te whakawātea, he aha tēnā?

    Exactly, there’s sustenance within kapa haka aye? There is healing with this world of Te Ao Haka, furthermore there are traditions as well. Well, we will conclude our conversation by looking at the exit, what exactly is that?

    E kōrero ana mō te hokinga atu ki te kāinga. E hoki ana ki Parihaka, ki Ngāti Ruanui, ki Ngāruahine, me Ngā Rauru kia huri tō tātou waka Aho Matua ki Taranaki, ā, hoki ki te kāinga.

    It speaks of returning home. Returning to Parihaka, to Ngāti Ruanui, to Ngāruahine and Ngā Rauru. Our Aho Matua canoe turns to Taranaki, to return home.

    Ka pai, ka pai. Nā, ki ō whakaaro, he aha pea ētahi o ngā rerekētanga, ngā motuhaketanga rānei, o roto i te tū o Taranaki?

    How awesome. Now, in your opinion what are some of the differences and uniqueness in terms of the Taranaki stance?

    Ko tō mātou kaupapa ētahi mea, ko te poi rokiroki kāore anō tētahi kapa i mahi i tērā. Ko tō mātou takahi, te hīkeikei - he tino ātaahua tērā ki au. Kei te mirimiri i a Papatuanuku. Ehara i te mea, kei te takahi ki runga i a ia, me te raukura.

    Our theme is one, groups haven’t performed a poi rokiroki as well. The way that we stamp the foot, known as the hīkeikei - it’s quite beautiful to me. We are caressing Papatuānuku. It’s not as if we are stomping on her, and the sacred emblem.

    Ka pai, ka pai. Tēnā, he aha ō mohiotanga mō te raukura?

    That’s great. Now, what knowledge do you have in regard to the sacred emblem?

    Mōku, he tohu i te maungārongo, he tohu i te rongomau ki roto i au. Ahakoa kāore e taea te rongo i te reo ihirangaranga o te raukura, kei te rongo i te rongomau.

    For me it represents peace, it resembles harmony within myself. Even though you can’t hear the vibrations of the sacred emblem, you can feel the harmony.

    Koia, koia. Nō reira, i roto i te mau i te raukura, me te mea nei he rerenga kētanga rānei kua kite rānei koe i roto i ō iwi me tō wheako i roto o Parihaka, he rerekē rānei te mau i te raukura?

    That’s exactly right. So, while holding the sacred emblem, or if you have seen something different within your iwi and your experience within Parihaka, is there a difference in terms of holding the sacred emblem?

    Āe, kei te rapu tonu au i ērā whakamārama, engari ka mau tētahi ki te taha matau, ki te taha mauī, ki waenga. He rerekē ki te tonga, ki te raki, ki te aha atu, kei te rapu tonu au i ērā kōrero.

    Yes, I’m still in search of that meaning, but you were one on the right, left and in the middle. It’s different in the south, north and other places. But I am still searching for those oral histories.

    Ka pai, ka pai, tēnā koe me he rapu tonu tō ake raukura nē titi ana i roto i a koe, ka pai. Kia mārama pūrangiaho tēnā ki te katoa. Ka mutu pea! 

     

    Nā, i kōrero koe mō tēnei mea te poi, nē? He aha, ki ō whakaaro, tētahi o ngā tino kura, ngā tino mārama mātauranga rānei kua heke ki a koe i roto i tō mau i tō poi manu?

    Thank you, once you find our own sacred emblem, fasten it within yourself okay. So that that is clear to everyone. Awesome! 

     

     

    Now you previously spoke about the poi, right? In your opinion, what are some of the hidden gems or comprehensible knowledge that has been passed down to you while holding onto your poi manu?

    Ko taku poi manu, he manawataki o tōku ao. Ki te pai te rere, ka pai hoki ahau; ki te ngū, kua raru tētahi mea. Kei te tihi o whakaaro te poi, i ngā wā katoa, nā te mea he tohu i te kāinga hoki. Ahakoa ka noho au ki tētahi wāhi rerekē, ka patua tonu i te poi hei reo mōku, anō hoki hei reo mō aku tūpuna.

    My poi manu, is the rhythm of my world. If it soars with ease, I will also be at ease; if it is silent, then something is wrong. The poi is at the seat of my thoughts all the time, because it also represents the home. Regardless of where I am staying, I still use the poi to voice my thoughts and those of our ancestors.

    Koia pū, koia pū. Nā, he kapa e piri atu ana koe ki tētahi kapa poi manu? Tētahi kapa poi atua rānei.

    Precisely. Now is there a poi manu group or poi atua group that you have joined?

    Kāore anō, kāo. Engari, ka tukuna i te poi ki ngā tangihanga

    No, not yet. But the poi is in flight at funerals.

    Ka pai. Nō reira, he tikanga ā-iwi kē, ā-hapū rānei?

    Right, so that’s a tribal or sub-tribe tradition?

    Āe

    Yes.

    Ka pai. Tēnā, he aha te tikanga o te taki i te poi i te uhunga, i te tangihanga?

    Okay, what is the purpose of reciting the poi at unveilings and funerals?

    Kia pai te haere o te tūpāpaku ki te kōpū o te whenua. Ko te reo whakamutunga. Kia wātea te huarahi, kia wātea tōna huarahi, ka taki i te karakia ‘Aotea’, a ‘Kī mai’ me ‘Pērā hoki’.

    So that the deceased travels safely to the heart of the earth. That’s the final voice. So that the path is clear. The karakia ‘Aotea’, ‘Kī mai’ and ‘Pērā hoki’ are also recited.

    Ka pai, katoa o ērā he poi atua, nē? Ka pai. Nā wai koe i whakaako ki ngā poi atua?

    Awesome. So, all of those are poi atua right? Who taught you how to perform poi atua?

    Ko tōku māmā tētahi, i tuhia tāna mahi mō te poi atua

    My mother was one, her work was based on poi atua.

    Tana tuhinga whakapae

    Is that her thesis?

    Āe

    Yes.

    Āe, āe, tohu paerua.

    Yes indeed, master’s thesis.

    Ko te karapu o Pātea. Ia Rāhina ka mahi, ahakoa te aha, ka mahi i mua i tō mātou mutunga. I taku tīmatanga i whakaaro, “he ai kei te mahi?” He pōturi rawa atu tēnei, engari au e pakeke ana, i mōhio he take, he take kei te mahi.

    The Pātea club. Every Monday it is recited no matter what. They recite this right before the end. Initially I thought, why do we do this? This is so slow, but as I matured, I realised that there was a reason that it was recited.

    Ka pai, ka pai. Nō reira, he aha pea ō kawenga ināianei i roto i Te Ao Haka?

    Awesome. Therefore, what are some of your responsibilities now within Te Ao Haka?

    Tētahi mea, ko te tū hei kaiārahi kapa haka ki Te Kunega ki Pūrehuroa.

    One of them is to stand as a leader of Te Kunenga ki Pūrehuroa kapa haka.

    Tēnā koe

    Thank you.

    Mō te ropu o Manawatahi. Kei reira au hei tū hei kaiako mō te kapa haka. He rawe. Ehara i te mea kei reira au ki te whakatika i a rātou, e tohutohu ana he tika, he hē rānei.

    For the Manawatahi group. I’m there as a tutor for the group. It’s fantastic. It’s not like I’m there to critique them or instruct them that it’s correct or wrong.

    Kia aro atu ki tētahi mea, kia pai ake rātou. Koirā taku mea nui, e ngākaunui ana kia ngākaunui ana hoki rātou ki tēnei mea te kapa haka. Ka awhina i ōku mātua hoki ki roto o Aotea Utanganui. I tērā tau i awhi ki te taha o Te Kūreitanga, i hoki atu kia hora aku mātauranga ki roto i te ao kapa, ki aku teina.

    But to focus on things which will make the group better. That’s my main focus, I’m enthusiastic for them to be enthusiastic about kapa haka. I also assist my parents with Aotea Utanganui. Last year, I helped with Te Kūreitanga, I returned to share the knowledge that I have about kapa haka with my younger siblings.

    Tēnā koe, tēnā i hoki hei raukura tonu, hei raukura, arataki i ō teina i reira. Ka pai. Nā, e mōhio ana tātou i tētahi o ngā whakataetae whakamutunga o roto o Aotea, he wā i kitea te w’akaw’enumitanga o ngā kapa, nē? Tēnā, kōrerohia mai tēnā wheako.

    Thank you, thank you for returning back as an exemplar to guide your younger siblings. How great. Now, we know of one of the final competitions here within Aotea, a time when we witnessed the amalgamation of groups, right? Now please discuss that experience.

    Te Kapa o Te Kāhui Maunga, he kōtuinga o ngā uri Taranaki maunga, o Te Awa Tupua, me Rātana Pā. I whakakotahi mātou i raro i te kaupapa kotahi, ko te kapa haka, kia tuku atu ki te ao, ki Aotearoa, kei konei a Aotea, e mahi tonu ana i ngā mahi. Ahakoa he iti rawa atu tātou, he nui tō mātou mātauranga me tō mātou arohanui ki te kapa haka.

    Te Kāhui Maunga group, interlinking the descendants of our mountain Taranaki, our great river and Rātana Pā. We united under the one banner, under kapa haka for the world and New Zealand to see, here is Aotea, still doing the work. Even though there may not be a lot of us, we have a lot of knowledge and love for kapa haka.

    Koia. Ko wai te kaiako?

    Exactly. Who was the tutor?

    Ko ētahi ko Te Taepa, atu i a ia ko ngā kaiako o ia kapa ka noho hei kāhui.

    One was Te Taepa, other than him there was a tutor from each group that were part of the organising committee.

    Ka noho hei kāhui matua, hika! Ngā taniwha o Taranaki, nē? Nā reira, i pēhea tā rātou āta whakariterite, tārei i te hōtaka haka?

    They were all part of the organising committee. Whoa! All the leaders of Taranaki? Therefore, how did they prepare & shape the bracket?

    Nā reira, ko te kaiako matua ko Te Taepa, engari ki ia wāhi kei a rātou tētahi waiata te uru atu ki roto i tēnei hotaka. Pērā ki a, ‘E rere rā; ‘Mangungu taipo’, ‘Pakipakia’, ‘Ngā waka e whitu’. He rawe tērā waiata ki au. Ētahi waiata o Rātana.

    So, the main tutor was Te Taepa, but each place had a song that was part of the performing bracket. Such as ‘E rere rā’; ‘Mangumangu taipō’, ‘Pakipakia’, ‘Ngā waka e whitu’. I like that song. And some songs from Rātana.

    Te waiata tira, nē?

    The choral right?

    Āe, me te whakawātea.

    Yes, and the exit.

    Me te whakawātea āe, te pēne, te reo.

    Yes, and the exit, the band and musical instruments.

    Āe. Te reo rawe rawa atu o ērā taonga puoro, me te whakaeke. He waiata. Ehara i te mea he waiata engari he kaupapa mō tō mātou ihorei kua pahure, a Uncle Archie Hurunui. Ko ia tētahi i akiaki i tēnei mō te reo, mō te ao kapa haka. I reira ia mōku i ngā wā katoa, ko ia tētahi o ōku ihorei mō te reo, mō te reo o Taranaki.

    Yes. All those musical instruments are amazing, the entry as well. It’s a song. Actually, it’s not just a song but it was written for our esteemed leader who had passed away, for Uncle Archie Hurunui. He was one who encouraged us to pursue this for the language and kapa haka. He was always there for me; he was one of my respected leaders for the language and dialect of Taranaki.

    Mei kore mōna, ka kore au e pakari i roto i tēnei mea. Ko te reo Māori tōna taonga nā reira ko tōku taonga, ko tōna reo Māori me ōna akoranga katoa.

    I owe a lot to him, because I wouldn’t be as strong as I am without him. The Māori language was his gift; therefore, my treasures are his Māori language and all his lessons.

    Tēnā koe. Nō reira, hei whakakōpani ake i tā taua uiuitanga kōrero i te rangi nei, me taku mīharo rawa atu ki a koe, Tūheimoa. He aha pea ētahi kupu hei akiaki i te ohinga e para nei i ōu huarahi, tō huarahi ki Te Ao Haka?

    Thank you. Therefore, to conclude this interview today, I am in awe of you, Tūheimoa. What are perhaps some words of encouragement for the youth who are pursuing your path of Te Ao Haka?

    Me mahia! Me mahia i ngā mahi kapa haka, kei roto ngā pūkenga. Āe, ko ngā mahi tinana, waiata, kanohi. Engari ko ngā kōrero, koirā te mea nui. Anō hoki, kia mataara, kātahi, tukuna ki te ao.

    Do the work! Pursue kapa haka, there are many skills within it. Yes, from actions, to songs, to facials. But the main thing is the oral history. Also, be alert and unleash your potential upon the world.

    Āe, tēnā rawa atu koe kei taku iti raukura me ngā kōrero kua komo mai ki tēnei o ngā raupō o Te Ao Haka. Ka nui te mihi ki a koe, oti noa ki ō ihorei, o Ngāti Tūpito, oti noa ngā paranga kei waenga i a tāua, Ngāti Manuhiakai, ngā uri o Tītokowaru. Tēnā koe Tūheimoa.

    Yes, thank you very much our precious treasure for all the stories that you have shared which will be added to our raupō girdle of Te Ao Haka. We are truly grateful to you and all your leaders of Ngāti Tūpito, furthermore all the connections between us, between Ngāti Manuhiakai and the descendants of Tītokowaru. Thank you Tūheimoa.