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Kapa haka was my line to my Māoritanga.

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We knew that we were the new kids on
the block, so we had a lot to prove.

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It was resonating throughout
Tūrangu-nui-ā-Kiwa and
I remember that moment

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thinking I wanna be in that core group.

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From the naughty little girl that I was
to grow up and to be able to hold that

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leadership. It's an honor.

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Welcome to Te Ao Haka podcast
for the Ministry of Education.

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Our kaikōrero today is Mātai Rangi Smith

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Dear. Uh, Kia ora hoki koutou ngā
rangitara o Te Tāhuhu o te Mātauranga,

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heoi anō, kia tīmata ā tāua
kōrero i te tīmatanga ake,

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you we weren't raised in the
Kapa haka scene were you?

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Kind of humble Kapa haka beginnings
Kaiti school in the eighties?

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Don't think you were singing
Haramai a Paoa back then.

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No, we weren't doing any
mōteatea back in the eighties,

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growing up as a kid here
in Tūranga-nui-ā-Kiwa, we
were more accustomed to,

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"Tōia mai TE waka nei,
Kūmea mai TE wa..." and

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there was the, I dunno
if you can note the "TE",

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there was the "TE" that's how we
used to sing it. Yeah. So, so no,

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we weren't as privileged as the
kids are of today, you know, we,

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we hear those mōteatea being performed
with such passion and command

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now, like 'Haramai a Paoa, even 'Pō Pō'.

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One of our renowned mōteatea here in Tai
Rāwhiti those kids can rattle it off.

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You know, it's all second nature
to them, but back in my days, yeah,

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we were just the basic
Tōia Mai, Ūtaina Mai,

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and How much is that kurī in the window?

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But Kaiti School,

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were to participate in the
royal pōwhiri at Poho-o-Rāwiri

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to Princess Diana and Charles
Prince Charles. And you were there?

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Yes, I was at the, uh,

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pōwhiri Princess Diana and Prince Charles
who visited Te Poho o Rāwiri marae,

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uh, here in
Tūranga-nui-ā-Kiwaback in 1983.

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And I remember being fascinated at
the time by all of these kapa haka,

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who I didn't know at the time didn't
know their significance or who they were

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and what pari they were wearing,
what bodice represented, who,

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but of course there was the Waihirere
the Hokowhitu-a-Tū all of these senior,

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uh, tautōhito or veteran
groups of our rohe coming

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together as one. And it was, there
were hundreds of them, you know,

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there were lines of them performing Tai
Rāwhiti haka so that was probably a very

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significant moment in my life where
I thought, wow, haka's pretty cool.

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That was your first whoa moment.

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And then you had another
whoa, moment as a 16 year old,

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the first time you were
exposed to Waihirere.

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That's right.

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I remember going to a Waihirere practice
back in 1992 with my cousin. She said,

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oh, I've got practice. I said,
oh, I'll come for a ride.

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And I remember walking into the whare
kai where they practice and being blown

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away,

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mesmerized fascinated by Waihirere sound.

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It was like booming, uh, resonating
across the recesses of the wall.

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And in fact, probably
throughout Tūranga-nui-ā-Kiwa,

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that's how massive the sound was.

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And I remember that moment
thinking that is a cool group.

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I wanna be in that cool group. How do
I get in this cool group? Um, so yeah,

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the rest is history. I was at
practice the following week.

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And you're looking at this group thinking,
uh, I know you, uh, that's my cousin.

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Uh, you are my uncle.

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Yeah, that's right. Uh,

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I didn't realize you know quite
ignorant at the time actually,

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because I wasn't raised in haka as such.

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I didn't know that all my uncles
and my cousins were in this group,

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nor did I know the significance of this
group. I mean, they are one of the,

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tautōhito veteran groups of Te Ao Haka
and here's my cousins and my aunties and

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my uncles, and they're all
performing to him. And I'm thinking,

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how come I didn't know about this
group? So that was another benefit of,

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of joining, Waihirere is uh,

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I got to stand with my
cousins and perform with them.

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I also wanted to learn how to,
you know, be a part of the sound.

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The sound was just so electric. Can.

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You describe the sound, the
Waihirere, of that time?

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It was a big sound. It was a big, um,

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bellowing quality sound. So
if, I think back to that sound,

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a lot of my aunties and uncles and
cousins that were in that group,

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they were natural singers.

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So they just had this natural
ability to sing loud, but also,

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well, I suppose, loud proud, but also
with quality. And so you could tell that,

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um, a lot of them, uh, knew
how to round their sound.

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They knew how to put a little bit of
light and shade in their sound when to go

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boom, and when to pull it back.
So, yeah, that was, that was, uh,

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a moment where I thought I
wanna learn how to do that.

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And so how did you get to learn how to
do that? Because you sing very loud.

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Yes. Well, yes, I do sing very
loud and my Aunty Tangiwai, I, uh,

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had a very diplomatic way of telling
me, you need to round your sound, boy,

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you need to round that sound.
And also when you sing,

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you stay on the one note,

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do not pick pekepeke haere
and jump to every other note,

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which was a bad habit of mine back
at, in the Junior's days. Anyway.

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So it was a skill that, uh,

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that I had to develop
and also rectify. Uh,

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but one I, why is that? Well, because,
because my sound was quite loud,

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you could tell the audience
could tell or well,

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auntie and uncle could tell when they're
standing up the front and say, Hey,

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what happened to that lead
sound? It's now gone to a tenor.

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Why is he jumping up to the tenor,
Mātai? You need to pull sound back,

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go jump up, back on the lead
and stay there. You know,

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cuz I used to love trying to, you know,
sing every parts of the tree, you know,

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the top canopy as well as
come down to the roots. Uh,

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but I was told to stay on
the one note and that is, uh,

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something that I hold
in. Good steed today.

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What did Tangiwai say to you
about your voice in particular?

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Just to control it and maintain the
note and follow the lead, stick to it?

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So Aunty Tangiwai always said to
me "round your sound" round that

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sound boy, you've got a big sound, but
I need you to, you know, quality-fy

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it, I think is, is there such a word?

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So basically you got a lot
of quantity is the quality.

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We need to find the quality in your
sound. So, and she was an absolute,

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uh,

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professional and mātanga
expert when it came to rounding

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sound, you know, she came from some great
leaders who, you know, Bill Kerekere,

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Ngapo and Pimia Wehi, so all of this, uh,

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all the skills that she possesses,
um, were being filtered down to us,

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including myself. So yeah.

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And I don't know if a lot of
people know this out there,

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but you are a really good
guitarist and you play

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the guitar on the Matatini stage. That
means you are really, really good.

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Doesn't it? There's a lot of pressure.

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I would go so far as to
say, yes, I'm a guitarist.

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And I like to play the guitar,

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whether or not I'm a really good guitarist
is debatable. But in saying that,

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I mean,

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I think people underestimate the
value of a guitarist because we

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are responsible not only for
keeping the 39 others in tune

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literally, but also when
it comes to the beat, uh,

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when it comes to the vibe, you know,

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guitars provide a lot of vibe and
momentum for the group. You know?

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So if your strum is a little bit
teats or koretake or not with it,

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then that is going to pretty
much filter throughout the group.

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The group, uh,

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kapa haka is an all kapa haka
keep saying kapa haka rōpū,

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don't say that kapa haka
feed off the guitarist.

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So if your teats and your
strum is not the best,

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or you go to the wrong note, you know,

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basically whatever you provide
to the group, they will feed off.

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And if it's not a good feed, well,

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you'll be hearing about it later
when you get off the stage.

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But you weren't a
guitarist when you arrived.

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No. So I'm a learned guitarist.

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So I basically can pick up the
guitar and you show me and then

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I can do it.

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So that's why kind of say that
I'm not the greatest guitarist,

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but I have stood next to some
of the greatest guitarists.

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I've had the privilege of standing with,
uh, my cousin Choocky in Waihirere,

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Wī Pere in Tū te Manawa Maurea.

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So I'm lucky that I've been able to
feed off them and learn their skills.

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But in saying that it's, it's really
nerve wracking. I mean, as a kaihaka,

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I've performed in the groups and
that's nerve wracking enough.

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But when you are responsible,
it's an added responsibility.

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It's an added huge responsibility
being the guitarist of the group,

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because if you falter
and may have happened

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once, or that wasn't my fault.
If you do make a mistake,

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the buck stops with you and the tutors
will come and chat to you and say, Hey,

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that wasn't the note we practiced.
How come you took it up?

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So on that, um, you sound like
you've experienced this, these stares

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from tutors or kaitātaki.

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Yes.

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What did you hit a wrong note?

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No, well, it wasn't my fault.
So allow me to explain.

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So in 2007,

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we did our first performance with Tū te
Manawa Maurea representing our Manutūke

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Rongowhakaata whānau I was one of the
guitarists and because it was our first

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performance at a Te Matatini,
we started singing our choral.

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And you know, the thing about it is
that people get really revved up.

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And my father were, you know,

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obviously revved up about our first
performance and the women hit a note

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that was a little bit pitchy.

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And so I remember I remember vividly Wī
Pere and I were strumming the same night

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that we'd strummed at
every single practice.

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And we had two of the women,

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two of the women tutors who shall
remain nameless turn in whilst they were

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performing turned back to the guitarists
and give us the stare of death,

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all your fault, fix it.

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And I remember that moment thinking I
never wanna play the guitar ever again.

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I did, but it was one of those
moments I'll never forget.

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And then later on we found out that
it was the women that got a little bit

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excited, um,

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by their performance and went to a note
they shouldn't have as opposed to my

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fault as the guitarist. But yeah, the
guitarist role is huge. And I think,

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you know, many at oo uh, underestimate
just the value of the guitarist.

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Who, who has set the benchmark for you?

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Who's the Joe Satriani of te Ao Kapa Haka.

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Oh, without a doubt the
Joe Satriani of kapa haka,

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are the Wehi brothers,
uh, Boy, and Wī Wehi.

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When I was growing up
as a Junior's guitarist,

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even Tū te Manawa and even
in Waihirere, were my idols,

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the way they command a strum,
it's got vigor, it's got meaning,

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it's got ah, vibe.

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And so every song that they play, they,
they play with such passion, you know,

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and you can see it on their faces as
well. You're just like we got you,

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we are here to do business.
We're not here to play.

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We're here to win this competition.

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So even though I would
try and be, you know,

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I would aspire to be a
Boy or Wī Wehi. I mean,

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they were in the league of their own,
they were in the league of their own. And,

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and in fact,

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if they took to the stage today and
played again together for Te Waka Huia,

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I dare say, they'd still be
in the league of their own.

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Is it a thankless job? What's
that? Is it a thankless job?

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Kinda like being a steerer
in a Waka Ama crew.

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Nobody wants to talk to you unless
you've done something wrong.

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That's, that's a great
analogy. Yeah. So yeah, you,

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you kind of feel because there's two
of you in the middle of the group, um,

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and you've got 38 others, you know,
most of theconcentration goes on,

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you know, the singing,
the choreography, uh,

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the soloists going out,
et cetera, et cetera.

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And sometimes the guitarists do kind
of just do their thing in the middle.

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But as I say, it's a huge
responsibility when you,

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uh have to maintain the beat,

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the tune as well as provide the vibe.

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So that those 38 others that you're on
stage with feel your vibe and deliver

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their best performance ever.

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Okay. Let's talk about some
of your Matatini performances.

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The first one was with Waihirere?

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My first Matatini performance
was back in 1994 at Hāwera

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I was 17 years young
and I was on stage with

214
00:13:41,300 --> 00:13:42,680
all of my uncles and aunties.

215
00:13:43,260 --> 00:13:45,360
And actually some of my
cousins made the team as well.

216
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:47,280
I wasn't the youngest in the team though.

217
00:13:47,281 --> 00:13:49,320
There were two that were
one year younger than me.

218
00:13:49,500 --> 00:13:51,800
Did you have a mullet that year?
What's that you had a mullet?

219
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,870
I think in Hawera 1994,

220
00:13:56,070 --> 00:14:00,150
I had shaved number one sides and
I had a Māui-Tikitiki-ā-Taranga

221
00:14:02,020 --> 00:14:05,990
kind of top knot thing.
Yeah. The mullet came in

222
00:14:07,790 --> 00:14:08,950
2007, I think, a few years later.

223
00:14:09,730 --> 00:14:12,670
And what was the iconic song
of that stand for Waihirere.

224
00:14:13,590 --> 00:14:17,860
I think the iconic song
for that particular year
in 1994 was a song called E

225
00:14:17,860 --> 00:14:18,334
tipu tamaiti pūhou i roto
i te whare tangata and it

226
00:14:26,541 --> 00:14:29,500
talks about raising
beautiful children. Yeah.

227
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,700
And then there were more Matatini
stands to come as a kaihaka and also as

228
00:14:35,701 --> 00:14:36,740
guitarist tell us about those.

229
00:14:38,510 --> 00:14:40,450
So I did two stints with
my whānau at Waihirere.

230
00:14:41,210 --> 00:14:45,370
I did 1994 and then I had
a bit of a break. Oh no,

231
00:14:45,371 --> 00:14:50,030
I didn't have a break I didn't make
the team in 96 anyway, that aside,

232
00:14:50,470 --> 00:14:52,840
uh, 98, I decided to, uh,

233
00:14:53,420 --> 00:14:55,560
go back for practices and
have a shot at the team,

234
00:14:55,580 --> 00:15:00,160
but then an opportunity to present as a
roving reporter on the live coverage on

235
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,240
TV Two popped up. Um,

236
00:15:02,241 --> 00:15:06,080
so I decided to do the coverage and
then Waihirere that year, heoi anō,

237
00:15:06,590 --> 00:15:09,840
year 2000 I went back to Waihirere uh,

238
00:15:09,841 --> 00:15:11,430
who were the national
champions at the time,

239
00:15:11,850 --> 00:15:13,910
did a stint with them in Ngāruawāhia
on the banks of the Waikato.

240
00:15:15,490 --> 00:15:20,070
And then I pretty much had had
enough of kapa haka. So I had a rest,

241
00:15:20,830 --> 00:15:23,470
I thought, done and dusted I'm over it.

242
00:15:24,010 --> 00:15:28,870
But then in 2006, uh, my far it Manutūke,

243
00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:30,670
Tū te Manawa Maurea formed a new group.

244
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,780
And I thought this is a chance for me
to get my Rongowhakaatatanga happening.

245
00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:39,220
And so I went and did, uh, three
festivals with them 2007 in Rangitāne,

246
00:15:41,340 --> 00:15:45,940
2009 in Tauranga and 2011
here in Gisborne at Waiohika.

247
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:51,970
So that's seven, five as a kaihaka
two sd a guitarist. Is that right?

248
00:15:52,530 --> 00:15:54,290
No. So there's five all up.

249
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:55,330
Five all.

250
00:15:55,330 --> 00:15:57,330
Up. Yep. So there was Hawera, Ngāruawāhia,

251
00:16:00,430 --> 00:16:01,263
Palmerston North, Tauranga
and Waiohika Gisborne.

252
00:16:04,610 --> 00:16:05,710
So five festivals,

253
00:16:05,711 --> 00:16:10,150
two with Waihirere three with Tū te Manawa
Maurea and two as a guitarist for Tū

254
00:16:10,150 --> 00:16:14,060
te Manawa Maurea. So
I, uh, the festival in,

255
00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:20,060
uh, Palmerston North in 2007
and the festival in 2011 as a

256
00:16:20,061 --> 00:16:20,690
guitarist.

257
00:16:20,690 --> 00:16:23,300
Okay. So which do you prefer
being a kaihaka or guitarist?

258
00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:27,380
Definitely preferred being a
kaihaka. Guitarist is stressful, man.

259
00:16:28,010 --> 00:16:32,220
Like I just did Tamararo a couple of
years ago with Waihirere and because

260
00:16:32,970 --> 00:16:35,250
I hadn't ridden the bike
for a while, you know,

261
00:16:35,251 --> 00:16:38,050
it's like jump back on
the bikes. Like, oh God,

262
00:16:39,290 --> 00:16:43,690
I was like a possum in headlights
when I stepped down on stage

263
00:16:44,350 --> 00:16:46,810
and I could feel my hands trembling,

264
00:16:47,310 --> 00:16:49,810
not because I was doing the wiri cos you
know, I didn't have to do the actions.

265
00:16:49,930 --> 00:16:50,770
I was a guitarist,

266
00:16:51,350 --> 00:16:56,200
but it was quite nerve wracking getting
back on the stage with the guitar.

267
00:16:56,420 --> 00:17:01,040
And that's what I mean, you
underestimate the value of the guitarist,

268
00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,720
uh, who has to basically, uh, hold

269
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:11,200
everyone together by way of tune
by way of strum by way of vibes.

270
00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:13,760
Uh, so I made it through that performance,

271
00:17:14,210 --> 00:17:18,230
but I kind of came off stage and thought,
I don't think I want to do that again.

272
00:17:19,610 --> 00:17:20,550
The thing about, um,

273
00:17:20,551 --> 00:17:24,710
being guitarist is when you are at the
marae or the 21st birthday or wedding,

274
00:17:24,780 --> 00:17:28,190
it's like, Hey Mātai, here's the
guitar. I'm like, oh sweet. You know,

275
00:17:28,290 --> 00:17:29,071
if I make a mistake,

276
00:17:29,071 --> 00:17:32,590
it's all good it's only whānau you can't
really make a mistake on the Matatini

277
00:17:32,871 --> 00:17:36,030
stage. Yeah. It's not a good look.

278
00:17:38,020 --> 00:17:42,540
And now of course you're presenting
Matatini on uh, as a broadcaster.

279
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:46,980
Yes. So I've got the
best seat in the house.

280
00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,440
Not that I'm saying that doesn't come
with its stress without its stress. Sorry.

281
00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:53,121
Um, yeah,

282
00:17:53,121 --> 00:17:56,080
I've got the best seat in the house as
the presenter and what a privilege and

283
00:17:56,081 --> 00:17:58,560
honor it is to be able to, uh,

284
00:17:59,350 --> 00:18:01,880
host the Olympics of kapa haka.

285
00:18:02,020 --> 00:18:05,680
So you've done Rotorua in
2013, 2015 in Christchurch,

286
00:18:06,180 --> 00:18:07,360
2017 ki.

287
00:18:07,900 --> 00:18:08,733
Heretaunga.

288
00:18:09,490 --> 00:18:10,290
And then.

289
00:18:10,290 --> 00:18:11,550
And the Cake Tin Wellington.

290
00:18:12,010 --> 00:18:15,190
Excuse me. And then 2019 in
Wellington that's five. Yeah.

291
00:18:15,990 --> 00:18:17,430
Uh, Rotorua.

292
00:18:19,310 --> 00:18:19,590
1, 2, 3, 4.

293
00:18:19,590 --> 00:18:22,510
Oh, hang on. Rotorua,
Christchurch, Hastings,

294
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:28,030
Wellington. Aye. That's
all of them me. No,

295
00:18:28,031 --> 00:18:32,340
I think I have done five
Rotorua 2013 Ōtautahi 2015,

296
00:18:32,820 --> 00:18:36,520
Hastings 2017 and then,
oh yeah, no, it's four.

297
00:18:37,350 --> 00:18:39,400
I've done four, five coming up.

298
00:18:40,510 --> 00:18:43,400
Does being a kaihaka, give you
an advantage as a broadcaster?

299
00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,360
I think being a kaihaka
and having experienced the,

300
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:52,910
the vibe of a national festival as
both a performer and as a guitarist,

301
00:18:53,950 --> 00:18:58,510
uh, it gives me an absolute sense of how

302
00:18:59,350 --> 00:19:02,190
our kaihaka are feeling as they're
making their way to the stage.

303
00:19:02,210 --> 00:19:06,390
So that's my role as a
broadcaster is to communicate, uh,

304
00:19:06,391 --> 00:19:09,390
that kind of kōrero to the viewers, um,

305
00:19:09,610 --> 00:19:13,340
and also update them on, uh,

306
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:18,780
the tutors, who's in the group. So
because of my connections with kapa haks,

307
00:19:19,820 --> 00:19:24,340
um, be it tutors, be it performers.
I'm able to look at a team and go, oh,

308
00:19:24,341 --> 00:19:27,540
that's, it's a bit like rugby, you know,

309
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,020
you certainly wouldn't see
me commentating, you know,

310
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:31,033
the chiefs and the Hurricanes.

311
00:19:32,450 --> 00:19:33,370
It's specialist knowledge though.

312
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:38,090
It's it's, it's a specialist
category kapa haka so yeah,

313
00:19:38,270 --> 00:19:40,050
unless you have that really intricate,

314
00:19:40,690 --> 00:19:45,010
intimate knowledge of how
kaihaka operate, um, the,

315
00:19:45,490 --> 00:19:49,690
the stresses of build up to Te
Matatini there, done that, but also,

316
00:19:50,570 --> 00:19:54,200
uh, having the experience as a
performer, be it at regionals,

317
00:19:54,201 --> 00:19:56,720
be it at nationals, be it internationally.

318
00:19:56,721 --> 00:19:59,200
So I've had the privilege of traveling
overseas with Waihirere and Tū te Manawa

319
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,000
Maurea as a cultural ambassador.

320
00:20:02,220 --> 00:20:07,160
So there are all these
facets to being a broadcaster

321
00:20:07,860 --> 00:20:12,710
and being able to draw on all your
past experiences to be able who

322
00:20:12,780 --> 00:20:15,950
communicate to the viewers. I
actually know what I'm talking about.

323
00:20:17,230 --> 00:20:17,590
How.

324
00:20:17,590 --> 00:20:18,423
Because I've been there.

325
00:20:18,550 --> 00:20:23,350
How does broadcasting enhance your
performance as a kaihaka and vice versa?

326
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:29,210
Well, if you have a look at kapa
haka and presenting kapa haka,

327
00:20:30,070 --> 00:20:34,240
the similarity is that I wanna
give my best performance. So I,

328
00:20:35,100 --> 00:20:37,720
whilst I may not practice
as much as a kaihaka does,

329
00:20:38,460 --> 00:20:41,640
but I am continually
watching kapa haka regionals.

330
00:20:41,740 --> 00:20:46,200
I'm continually watching social media
to see what the latest vibes, you know,

331
00:20:46,380 --> 00:20:48,800
not just, um, the adults. I mean,

332
00:20:48,870 --> 00:20:52,520
secondary schools now fuu I tell you what
some of those secondary schools would

333
00:20:52,521 --> 00:20:55,320
give some of these adult teams a
good go, good run for their money,

334
00:20:55,460 --> 00:20:56,400
but also our kids.

335
00:20:57,060 --> 00:21:01,200
So you really must invest
your time and your energy

336
00:21:01,790 --> 00:21:06,440
into mahi rangahau or researching
what is happening not only at,

337
00:21:06,510 --> 00:21:11,110
at the national, uh, adult level,
but across the board, you know,

338
00:21:11,111 --> 00:21:15,630
right down to our kids. And, and that
gives you a greater appreciation, uh,

339
00:21:15,770 --> 00:21:20,430
of Te Ao Haka but also the, the
involvement as well. I mean,

340
00:21:20,431 --> 00:21:21,550
there's huge involvement,

341
00:21:21,810 --> 00:21:25,870
but there's also huge involvement
of Te Ao Haka and our kids,

342
00:21:26,530 --> 00:21:28,540
you know, I was talking
to you earlier about,

343
00:21:28,660 --> 00:21:31,820
I did to Tōia mai te waka well,

344
00:21:31,821 --> 00:21:35,740
these kids nowadays are
pulling out, honestly,

345
00:21:35,741 --> 00:21:37,860
some of the numbers they're
pulling out and doing solos,

346
00:21:38,620 --> 00:21:43,340
stepping out onto the stage like Beyonce
and you know, it, it, and Stan Walker,

347
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:47,180
you know, these kids can, can deliver
performances that are just so passionate,

348
00:21:47,550 --> 00:21:50,210
but the thing is they know
what they're singing about.

349
00:21:50,790 --> 00:21:53,970
We didn't know we were pulling a waka.
That's why, you know, my actions used to,

350
00:21:53,970 --> 00:21:57,650
say tōia mai, we were pushing
the boat out, out to sea,

351
00:21:58,270 --> 00:22:01,170
not pulling it in, whereas
these kids now, um,

352
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,250
it's just so wonderful
and so invigorating and

353
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,360
just gives you a, such a sense of
pride when you see these kids, uh,

354
00:22:10,361 --> 00:22:13,400
performing with, with such
passion and vigor. So yeah.

355
00:22:13,401 --> 00:22:16,280
Watch out to adults Te Matatini
these primary school kids are,

356
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:17,273
are coming for you.

357
00:22:17,630 --> 00:22:20,520
Just one last thing on
the broadcasting and, uh,

358
00:22:20,660 --> 00:22:24,560
how being a kaihaka obviously gives you
an advantage because it's a tough crowd

359
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,440
the haka crowd clubs just
don't open their doors to any

360
00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:30,950
Māori with a microphone as, um,

361
00:22:31,540 --> 00:22:35,150
many journalists can attest to with the
clubs particularly here in Tai Rāwhiti.

362
00:22:36,590 --> 00:22:37,070
So,

363
00:22:37,070 --> 00:22:40,350
but being a kaihaka has obviously helped
you get some scoops on the rest of us.

364
00:22:41,100 --> 00:22:41,430
Yeah.

365
00:22:41,430 --> 00:22:46,230
I think having had those connections
and relationships with both

366
00:22:46,490 --> 00:22:50,100
tutors of other kapa and not
just here in Tai Rāwhiti, I mean,

367
00:22:51,340 --> 00:22:56,200
I'm fortunate that I can go and
see Sir Derek from Whangara I can

368
00:22:56,201 --> 00:22:58,400
go and see obviously Aunty Tangiwai
and Uncle George from Waihirere.

369
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,000
I can go and see, um, our whānau from
Tokomaru Bay and Te Hokowhitu-ā-Tū,

370
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,120
I can go out to Tū te Manawa Maurea.
I can go and see Max out Whānau-ā-Kai.

371
00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:07,720
I can go to Selwyn Parata and
Nanny Kuini Moehau at Hikurangi.

372
00:23:09,830 --> 00:23:10,663
Auntie Sha over at Poho.

373
00:23:10,830 --> 00:23:13,590
And Aunty Sha at Poho-o-Rāwiri. I have
those connections, those relationships,

374
00:23:14,210 --> 00:23:16,430
not only locally, but nationally.

375
00:23:16,690 --> 00:23:21,630
And that is I think a huge advantage
for me having built up as a kayaker and

376
00:23:21,631 --> 00:23:24,870
as a broadcaster as well, are
those relationships and networks.

377
00:23:24,871 --> 00:23:26,710
But also the key here is trust.

378
00:23:28,030 --> 00:23:30,070
I would like to think that
they trust in me to be,

379
00:23:30,140 --> 00:23:33,060
be able to turn up to one of
their practices and not say, oh,

380
00:23:33,300 --> 00:23:38,020
there's Mātai from from Waihirere he's
come to spy on us. Um, no, I haven't.

381
00:23:38,410 --> 00:23:42,340
It's just that we have a relationship
and I have a job to do, and I want to,

382
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,340
you know, be the best at my job.

383
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,720
And so if that means that I have to
come and interview you at your marae,

384
00:23:47,870 --> 00:23:52,280
when you're having a practice, then I,
I need to know that you entrusted me,

385
00:23:52,590 --> 00:23:55,360
that we're gonna do this
interview and at no, uh, time,

386
00:23:56,350 --> 00:24:00,800
will you think that I'm going to share
what you are performing with others,

387
00:24:01,220 --> 00:24:05,070
cos that's not why I'm here. I'm here
to do a job, one job and I wanna do it.

388
00:24:05,071 --> 00:24:05,904
Well.

389
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,830
We're starting to wrap up a
little bit and um, you know,

390
00:24:10,470 --> 00:24:13,670
you spoke a lot about what kapa haka
used to be like when you were at Kaiti

391
00:24:13,671 --> 00:24:18,670
school and you'll remember the
Tūranga-nui Festival, it's uh,

392
00:24:18,671 --> 00:24:22,310
kind of an institution here
and it's really developed
over the years. Hasn't it?

393
00:24:22,990 --> 00:24:26,540
Goodness me. It has grown
in both size and stature,

394
00:24:26,541 --> 00:24:31,140
but also in terms of passion,
I think from our kids.

395
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,500
So if I reflect a lot of
the mainstream schools like

396
00:24:36,290 --> 00:24:40,410
Elgin and Te Wharau and Hapara,
you know, they would stand up,

397
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,770
Gisborne Intermediate is a typical
example of a mainstream school,

398
00:24:44,771 --> 00:24:47,280
where back in my day, you'd be
lucky to get a 'ka tangi te tītī,

399
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,640
ka tangi te kākā' out of them.

400
00:24:50,300 --> 00:24:52,880
And now these kids in
the recent competition,

401
00:24:54,150 --> 00:24:57,400
they were that much away from qualifying
for the nationals. This was huge.

402
00:24:58,180 --> 00:24:58,990
They entered Tamararo?

403
00:24:58,990 --> 00:24:59,823
Yeah. They entered Tamararo.

404
00:25:00,150 --> 00:25:05,000
They entered one of our biggest
competitions where you were

405
00:25:05,001 --> 00:25:08,910
competing against Kura Kaupapa
Māori as well as some other, uh,

406
00:25:08,911 --> 00:25:13,070
other kura like Manutūke who are former
primary national champions twice.

407
00:25:13,850 --> 00:25:18,830
And here's this gezunt that
turn up and give it a go. And I,

408
00:25:18,870 --> 00:25:19,650
I, you know,

409
00:25:19,650 --> 00:25:24,550
that's why I say there's huge
involvement and involvement in

410
00:25:24,551 --> 00:25:27,220
terms of kapa haka particularly
here in Te Tai Rāhwhiti,

411
00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:30,860
a lot of the mainstream schools wanna
come and be a part of Te Ao Haka.

412
00:25:32,010 --> 00:25:34,740
What does that say about the future
of the region, given that, you know,

413
00:25:35,650 --> 00:25:38,540
half of population here is
Pākehā, the other half is Māori.

414
00:25:39,340 --> 00:25:41,500
Oh, I think it's positive.
I'm I'm ever the optimist,

415
00:25:41,501 --> 00:25:45,820
but I think that it is an indication
that we are starting to, uh,

416
00:25:46,050 --> 00:25:50,420
personify Tūranga tangata
rite, that we all is one. Um,

417
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:51,080
the other thing,

418
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,700
the other benefit of kapa haka here in
the region for mainstream schools is they

419
00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:00,240
get taught the real history
of this place. You know?

420
00:26:00,700 --> 00:26:03,320
So whether it's Haramai a Paoa or Pō Pō,

421
00:26:03,740 --> 00:26:07,240
or other mōteatea pertaining
to our local stories,

422
00:26:08,130 --> 00:26:11,590
our local history, our local whakapapa,
all of these kids now Pākehā mai,

423
00:26:11,590 --> 00:26:12,203
Māori mai, Whītī mai are

424
00:26:15,310 --> 00:26:17,390
learning about Tūranga, Tūrangatanga,
Turangatanga, Tūranga tangata rite.

425
00:26:23,500 --> 00:26:25,650
Let's, uh, end at the
beginning, Kaiti school.

426
00:26:27,650 --> 00:26:28,483
Kaiti school Wow.

427
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:29,993
They do Tamararo now.

428
00:26:30,380 --> 00:26:32,980
Well, Kaiti school when I was
a kid, we didn't do Tamararo.

429
00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:37,660
We just did the Tūranga-nui-ā-Kiwa
festival and did Tōia Mai, um,

430
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,220
but now that could mine,

431
00:26:40,550 --> 00:26:44,840
which I'm very proud to say
I'm a ex student of, uh,

432
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,920
ka pai Kaiti that school is
now up there in terms of kapa

433
00:26:49,300 --> 00:26:53,480
haka. It never used to be, it used
to be what we call teats, koretake,

434
00:26:55,180 --> 00:26:59,560
not the best, but now obviously
they have evolved. Um,

435
00:26:59,660 --> 00:27:03,430
and these kids are now
starting to grow, uh,

436
00:27:03,431 --> 00:27:08,310
both in terms of their confidence
and as well as they're fortunate to

437
00:27:08,311 --> 00:27:11,510
have some kaihaka that have
performed on the Te Matatini stage,

438
00:27:12,230 --> 00:27:17,030
I know of a couple that are a kaiako
there who are now sharing their taonga,

439
00:27:17,031 --> 00:27:19,950
their knowledge, their vast
knowledge. It must be said, uh,

440
00:27:19,951 --> 00:27:21,190
with these kids and it's paid off.

441
00:27:21,290 --> 00:27:25,620
So these kids are now off to the national
and Nelson later this year. Yeah.

442
00:27:25,621 --> 00:27:28,180
Which is pretty cool for Kaiti school.

443
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,220
If you hadn't have hitched a ride to, um,

444
00:27:31,221 --> 00:27:35,300
watch Waihirere club
that day back in 94, was.

445
00:27:35,300 --> 00:27:36,220
It 94? Yeah.

446
00:27:36,570 --> 00:27:37,390
Yeah.

447
00:27:37,390 --> 00:27:40,420
Would you be the same person that you
are now if you didn't have kapa haka in

448
00:27:40,421 --> 00:27:41,254
your life?

449
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:42,900
No, absolutely not.

450
00:27:43,220 --> 00:27:48,090
I think kapa haka gave
me so many skills, uh,

451
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,170
that have contributed to who I am.
Uh, when, when I broadcast, you know,

452
00:27:53,171 --> 00:27:56,610
it's a performance, whether it's a
game show, whether it's Te Matatini,

453
00:27:57,360 --> 00:27:59,970
whether it's current
affairs, you know, it's,

454
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,720
it's a performance and you wanna put your,
you wanna put your best foot forward.

455
00:28:05,220 --> 00:28:07,640
So every time I step in front
of the camera, like today,

456
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:13,160
I wanna ensure that this is
my best performance and I
want to give it 150%. Uh,

457
00:28:13,161 --> 00:28:15,920
obviously I don't do as much practice
as kaihaka could do for the Matatini,

458
00:28:16,300 --> 00:28:20,280
but that's not to say that I don't, uh,
have a passion, uh, for broadcasting.

459
00:28:20,830 --> 00:28:23,240
What was your question again? Sorry.
I went a little bit off tangent.

460
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,030
Uh, would you be the same person
without kapa haka in your life?

461
00:28:28,660 --> 00:28:32,520
No, I don't think I would be. Um,
kapa haka has given me so much to, uh,

462
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,960
contributed so much to the person that
you see sitting in front of you today in

463
00:28:36,961 --> 00:28:38,320
terms of confidence. You know,

464
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,280
I know it's a little bit different
when you're on stage with 39 others,

465
00:28:43,380 --> 00:28:44,240
but at the end of the day,

466
00:28:44,260 --> 00:28:49,110
you still gotta remember that you have
one spot that someone else may have

467
00:28:49,130 --> 00:28:52,430
got, but you got it. So you gotta make
the most of it. And it's the same.

468
00:28:52,431 --> 00:28:56,550
When I sit in a chair or stand in front
of a screen presenting whatever show I'm

469
00:28:56,551 --> 00:28:59,590
presenting, it's an honor and a
privilege to have that one spot.

470
00:29:00,050 --> 00:29:03,430
So don't muck it up.
Don't make a mess of it,

471
00:29:04,300 --> 00:29:08,350
own it and give it your best
shot. And that's kind of, uh,

472
00:29:08,690 --> 00:29:12,750
the skills or the, the values,
the taonga that I've, uh,

473
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,670
attributed to kapa haka
that have contributed to,

474
00:29:16,350 --> 00:29:17,510
to my broadcasting career as well.

475
00:29:20,150 --> 00:29:20,983
Martha Smith, tēnā koe.

476
00:29:21,690 --> 00:29:22,523
Tēnā koe.

477
00:29:23,700 --> 00:29:27,980
This was a podcast for the Ministry
of Education, thank you for listening.

1
00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:05,273
Kia ora Cousin,

2
00:01:05,410 --> 00:01:09,520
first question here is how long
has haka been a part of your life?

3
00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:13,680
Oh, I don't wanna show my age

4
00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,000
probably when I was about
five, starting off doing

5
00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:26,030
concerts down at, um, inside Tama te
kapua down Ōhinemutu with, um, the family

6
00:01:27,540 --> 00:01:31,030
alongside my cousins and my
sister, my brother, and, um,

7
00:01:31,810 --> 00:01:36,430
taught by our auntie Dina and Uncle
Trevor and Aunye Linda. And, uh,

8
00:01:36,431 --> 00:01:41,110
your mum. I remember great
voices and great exponent of the,

9
00:01:41,130 --> 00:01:46,110
of the as five year olds.
Our, our idols were, um,

10
00:01:46,900 --> 00:01:50,340
Pearl gray and uncle Buster, man.

11
00:01:50,370 --> 00:01:54,580
They were big for us and they could
haka and all we wanted to do was be like

12
00:01:54,581 --> 00:01:58,780
them one day, going back
to the 1960s there cus,

13
00:01:59,770 --> 00:02:04,380
long time between drinks and
obviously a few more wrinkles and

14
00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:05,393
kgs since then.

15
00:02:08,630 --> 00:02:13,370
So true. Now you speak of idols
and growing up in your whānau,

16
00:02:13,660 --> 00:02:17,650
especially thinking of
uncle Howard and Nanny Gerty

17
00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,050
entertainment is no stranger to you.

18
00:02:22,190 --> 00:02:24,810
How did that impact on your life?

19
00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,920
Well, I think it exposed,
uh, all of us to, um,

20
00:02:30,180 --> 00:02:33,040
the world of entertainment at
a really early age. And, um,

21
00:02:33,910 --> 00:02:38,440
like every Morihana is able to do.
They adapt very well because, uh,

22
00:02:39,210 --> 00:02:42,160
we've been told that we,
uh, enjoy the limelight,

23
00:02:43,310 --> 00:02:46,120
some of us anyway. So, um,

24
00:02:48,380 --> 00:02:49,213
legends,

25
00:02:49,750 --> 00:02:54,630
I use like my nanny
Gert and uncle Trev and

26
00:02:54,790 --> 00:02:57,430
auntie Din Uncle Hamu

27
00:02:59,180 --> 00:03:03,050
later on in life, Irirangi, we
were very fortunate to have a,

28
00:03:03,210 --> 00:03:07,450
a very wide range of, um,
experts in the art of, um,

29
00:03:07,450 --> 00:03:11,010
kapa haka. So, uh,

30
00:03:11,011 --> 00:03:15,090
obviously it was gonna rub
off on all of us and about 90%

31
00:03:16,510 --> 00:03:21,120
of us cousins and brother and sister
carry that on further in life.

32
00:03:23,190 --> 00:03:26,250
You were fortunate enough to perform
as a young man with Ngāti Rangiwewehi.

33
00:03:28,230 --> 00:03:31,050
Can you tell me about that experience?

34
00:03:31,830 --> 00:03:34,370
My first competitive experience
was at Tūrangawaewae.

35
00:03:36,530 --> 00:03:39,600
I think it was one of
the coronation festivals.

36
00:03:39,601 --> 00:03:44,360
They have up there every
year and I performed in

37
00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:45,880
the Rangiwewehi midgets?

38
00:03:47,500 --> 00:03:52,040
And we used to some of our smaller ones
used to have to wear tīpare because we

39
00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:57,000
were so small as a tāpeka and white
shorts and all the ones that play

40
00:03:57,001 --> 00:04:00,070
rugby would go on the stage with
their piupiu, with their white shorts,

41
00:04:00,460 --> 00:04:03,710
with the grass skid marks on them. So, um,

42
00:04:04,220 --> 00:04:09,190
that was my sort of first exposure to
performing with a big group in front

43
00:04:09,191 --> 00:04:11,910
of a big crowd. And I'll
always remember that. Yeah.

44
00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:14,780
In 1983,

45
00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,860
you were part of a Ngāti
Rangiwewehi team that won,

46
00:04:19,140 --> 00:04:22,570
in 1996 Ngāti Rangiwewehi

47
00:04:24,211 --> 00:04:26,930
took it out again. What was
that experience like for you?

48
00:04:29,050 --> 00:04:33,890
Well, I suppose you gotta go
back to how kapa haka the journey

49
00:04:33,950 --> 00:04:38,850
of kapa haka changed over those, um,
those years and those dig age. I mean,

50
00:04:39,650 --> 00:04:42,040
back in 1975, I think we're in Gisborne

51
00:04:43,740 --> 00:04:45,920
and one group come out and they'd done a,

52
00:04:46,430 --> 00:04:50,440
they started an entry like this and they
just done a wave and they brought the

53
00:04:50,441 --> 00:04:55,360
house down because that wasn't kapa
haka like we know kapa haka back in the

54
00:04:55,361 --> 00:04:59,960
day then obviously since then the
choreography and the movement nowadays

55
00:05:00,860 --> 00:05:04,870
is far different than what we
used to do back in the day.

56
00:05:05,930 --> 00:05:09,430
So, um, when I first
like joined Rangiwewehi

57
00:05:10,220 --> 00:05:13,390
75, 77, 79,

58
00:05:14,550 --> 00:05:19,390
Irirangi Tiakiawa came on
board with us 79, 81 and 83.

59
00:05:20,010 --> 00:05:23,980
And the group started molding into a, uh,

60
00:05:24,140 --> 00:05:27,340
a competitive group because
prior to that, you know,

61
00:05:27,341 --> 00:05:30,860
we were getting our nonos kicked from
Waihirere and all those Coasty groups.

62
00:05:31,840 --> 00:05:36,020
So I think Irirangi was a
great influence on Rangiwewehi

63
00:05:36,840 --> 00:05:41,620
as in changing our mindset of
how we should perceive kapa

64
00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:43,890
haka, not just getting up and,

65
00:05:45,130 --> 00:05:48,930
and walking on and doing a few
items and then walking off, he,

66
00:05:49,830 --> 00:05:52,370
he made us think outside
the square and use more,

67
00:05:54,050 --> 00:05:57,200
imagine be more imaginative. So, um,

68
00:05:57,580 --> 00:06:00,640
if you go back in the decades
and the years, you'll,

69
00:06:00,641 --> 00:06:04,840
you'll see the progression of where
Rangiwewehi was. And we had progressed to,

70
00:06:04,841 --> 00:06:07,600
until we left, I think it was 2002.

71
00:06:08,770 --> 00:06:11,710
And a lot of things changed. You know,

72
00:06:11,711 --> 00:06:15,830
members changed the back in
the day when I first started,

73
00:06:15,990 --> 00:06:20,980
I think we had Nanny Kato was in then
she was in her seventies. But, uh,

74
00:06:20,981 --> 00:06:24,900
nowadays kapa haka is such a youngies, uh,

75
00:06:26,660 --> 00:06:29,700
a youngies activity now because,
um, because of the fitness,

76
00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:34,860
the physical demand on the body,
you know, but within every group,

77
00:06:34,861 --> 00:06:38,250
you've still gotta have
those stalwarts those,

78
00:06:38,900 --> 00:06:42,090
those people who can awhi,
and guide our rangatahi,

79
00:06:43,280 --> 00:06:44,770
because sometimes, um,

80
00:06:44,771 --> 00:06:48,690
they might get a bit carried away and it
takes someone with a bit of experience

81
00:06:48,691 --> 00:06:52,450
just to pull 'em back and say,
look, there's the line in the sand.

82
00:06:52,870 --> 00:06:56,090
You cross it gone too far,
but always try and push it.

83
00:06:56,830 --> 00:07:01,480
And when I start had a tutor in
back in 85 alongside my auntie

84
00:07:01,700 --> 00:07:06,480
Dina, once again, your mindset
has to change because, um,

85
00:07:07,140 --> 00:07:10,120
you don't ever ask the group to
do something that you wouldn't do.

86
00:07:10,900 --> 00:07:14,040
And then suddenly I found myself
in, in a leadership role in,

87
00:07:14,940 --> 00:07:18,040
it was hard for me to adapt
because I was the biggest tutu,

88
00:07:19,310 --> 00:07:23,750
I was always late and always had a
great excuse, always used my aunty,

89
00:07:23,890 --> 00:07:28,750
but you sort of had to mature very
quickly because, um, surrounded,

90
00:07:29,030 --> 00:07:33,550
I was surrounded by performers
who were as good as me and

91
00:07:33,551 --> 00:07:37,470
sometimes better. So I had to
push myself to try and be better.

92
00:07:37,930 --> 00:07:41,260
So that they'll look up to me and
respect me as, as a leader, cuz um,

93
00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:46,540
if you haven't got the respect of
your performers, you're pushing, um,

94
00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,180
what's that word uphill. Yeah.

95
00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,020
So speaking about leadership,

96
00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:58,300
you are also a previous
winner of a male leader's

97
00:07:58,610 --> 00:08:01,210
role. Tell me about that experience.

98
00:08:03,810 --> 00:08:08,330
Uh, I won it once alongside my
Aunty in 1992 in Ngaruawahia

99
00:08:08,971 --> 00:08:10,730
and we weren't pushing for the leadership,

100
00:08:11,870 --> 00:08:15,650
we were pushing more so
for the group to win.

101
00:08:17,430 --> 00:08:20,400
So after receiving that trophy,
I actually actually, um,

102
00:08:21,700 --> 00:08:22,533
put it in my wardrobe for
a year and a half until

103
00:08:24,441 --> 00:08:26,800
my aunty found out about it
and she come up and got it.

104
00:08:26,801 --> 00:08:29,680
And then she put my name on
it because I felt as a leader,

105
00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:30,880
I didn't achieve my job,

106
00:08:31,940 --> 00:08:36,800
my mahi because a leader's job
responsibility is to lead the

107
00:08:36,801 --> 00:08:39,160
group to victory,

108
00:08:39,180 --> 00:08:43,470
not use the group to benefit
yourself. So I thought, I thought,

109
00:08:44,130 --> 00:08:48,710
you know, later on in life, I
got to, um, appreciate the award,

110
00:08:48,810 --> 00:08:53,110
but I felt for the rōpū because I felt
it was the group that actually got me

111
00:08:53,111 --> 00:08:56,740
that award. So we came second
that year to, uh, Waka Huia,

112
00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:02,140
second again in 94. And
in the 1996 we won it.

113
00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,380
But it's funny that the parties in 92
and 94 when we were second were actually

114
00:09:07,580 --> 00:09:11,140
better than the one we had here in
Rotorua when we won it. But, um,

115
00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,890
it was a relief. And, and
the thing about winning,

116
00:09:17,950 --> 00:09:21,530
You've got more chance of
going down than going up.

117
00:09:22,510 --> 00:09:25,210
So in 98, we, we come up
with another great program,

118
00:09:25,350 --> 00:09:27,290
but we pipped at the post by, um,

119
00:09:29,350 --> 00:09:31,530
Waihirere this time. So in the nineties,

120
00:09:33,170 --> 00:09:37,520
that was the era of Ngāti
Rangiwewehi second 92,

121
00:09:37,521 --> 00:09:41,600
second 94, first 96, second 98.

122
00:09:41,620 --> 00:09:44,680
And those were the flourishing years.

123
00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,040
I think of Ngāti Rangiwewehi.

124
00:09:47,041 --> 00:09:50,120
And especially with the group we had then,

125
00:09:50,121 --> 00:09:54,920
because many of them had joined the
group in the seventies and gone right

126
00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,310
through to 98, 2000.

127
00:09:57,610 --> 00:10:01,390
So we all sort of paddle the waka together

128
00:10:02,730 --> 00:10:04,550
and um, it takes time.

129
00:10:04,610 --> 00:10:09,430
You just can't create a group
because you always have to have that

130
00:10:09,431 --> 00:10:14,070
experience, but you know, then someone
might say, what about, um, Rongomai?

131
00:10:15,270 --> 00:10:17,500
They've done tremendously
well, but then again,

132
00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:22,780
you've got two very experienced
leaders at the helm. You've also got,

133
00:10:23,020 --> 00:10:27,540
um, our other nephew, um, Who had Kataore,

134
00:10:27,820 --> 00:10:31,420
what's his name? Riki. So within
that blend of new ones, there's,

135
00:10:31,421 --> 00:10:32,660
there's still got that,

136
00:10:33,300 --> 00:10:37,330
that backbone of performers Who
bring experience to the group

137
00:10:38,690 --> 00:10:41,450
Tūmanako another group with, um,

138
00:10:43,090 --> 00:10:46,810
expat members from other groups, but, uh,

139
00:10:49,690 --> 00:10:54,130
a new group as well, but with the
experience. So, um, I think the,

140
00:10:54,190 --> 00:10:59,040
the major thing for a leader
is, um, just to be fair.

141
00:10:59,560 --> 00:11:00,393
I mean,

142
00:11:01,660 --> 00:11:05,200
you sort of lost friends when
it was time to name the lineup

143
00:11:07,260 --> 00:11:09,960
and Aunty Dina would get
calls from her cousin saying,

144
00:11:10,020 --> 00:11:14,920
why isn't my daughter in the front
row and I'd get calls and I said,

145
00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,430
I'd blame uncle Trev. And I said, no,
no, cuz I never, I never picked the rows,

146
00:11:18,551 --> 00:11:21,870
Uncle Trevor did you know? So
you always got politics within,

147
00:11:22,870 --> 00:11:26,030
within the group of positioning.
And why is that one singing a solo?

148
00:11:26,871 --> 00:11:30,990
When my daughter should be singing
solo te mea, te mea, te mea. But uh,

149
00:11:31,110 --> 00:11:33,470
I think for any group to be successful,

150
00:11:33,471 --> 00:11:36,670
you have to have a great
matriarch and leader who's

151
00:11:38,541 --> 00:11:43,540
not scared to tell you what's on
her mind and what she actually

152
00:11:43,541 --> 00:11:44,860
thinks of you. And that, um,

153
00:11:45,380 --> 00:11:50,100
I don't think Ngāti Rangiwewehi would've
been the force that it was without my

154
00:11:50,101 --> 00:11:54,000
Aunty, Aunty Dina,
Atareta, who, by the way,

155
00:11:54,001 --> 00:11:58,400
won the leadership twice. Yeah.

156
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:01,880
Speaking about legends too cousin,

157
00:12:04,750 --> 00:12:07,960
composing waiata is
another strength of yours,

158
00:12:08,660 --> 00:12:10,560
we spoke about that Rangiwewehi sound,

159
00:12:11,940 --> 00:12:15,910
can you elaborate on the Rangiwewehi
sound a little more for us?

160
00:12:18,460 --> 00:12:22,790
Well, I was very fortunate
that I was musically,

161
00:12:24,950 --> 00:12:29,590
um, better off than others because of the
time I spent on the road with Dad as a

162
00:12:30,090 --> 00:12:34,620
six, seven year old and
right up to he, he passed

163
00:12:36,180 --> 00:12:40,740
and learning his stagecraft
of entertainment.

164
00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,140
He, didn't not regard himself as a singer,

165
00:12:43,141 --> 00:12:48,020
he regarded himself as an entertainer
and all those little lessons

166
00:12:48,500 --> 00:12:50,740
I learned right through
him, a singing career.

167
00:12:51,890 --> 00:12:56,810
Finally come back to awhi me when
it was time for me to take over the

168
00:12:56,811 --> 00:12:59,090
mantle as the male, um, tutor,

169
00:13:00,550 --> 00:13:05,130
and many of his techniques
and ways of composing tunes

170
00:13:06,420 --> 00:13:08,200
was easy for me because
of that background.

171
00:13:09,180 --> 00:13:11,280
But a rangi is nothing without the kupu.

172
00:13:12,260 --> 00:13:15,790
And we've been very fortunate over
the years to have some really,

173
00:13:16,050 --> 00:13:20,750
really great starting with Nanny Kato.

174
00:13:22,470 --> 00:13:26,230
Uh, Timoti Karetu. I
asked him for some kupu,

175
00:13:26,550 --> 00:13:31,150
for a poi that we did on the pink and
white Terraces. He sent me a thesis.

176
00:13:32,830 --> 00:13:34,710
Is that the word? It was about four pages.

177
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:39,260
So I cut it and I send it back
to him and he rings my Aunty

178
00:13:40,180 --> 00:13:44,660
that bloody Hiwaroa. Look what he's done
to my blimmin story. Look before I had,

179
00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,900
for example, today I went to the shop,

180
00:13:48,770 --> 00:13:52,220
he's taken it all out and
now it says today shop.

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00:13:54,300 --> 00:13:58,890
I says, come on, uh, come on matua,
you are, you are the professor here,

182
00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:03,650
make it, make it sound
good. So we had him and he,

183
00:14:03,890 --> 00:14:08,290
he had never had a composition
that had won an item before if I

184
00:14:09,130 --> 00:14:11,650
remember correctly. I dunno why
because he's the pro professor.

185
00:14:12,230 --> 00:14:16,280
So we did the poi in
2000 and his haka Taane

186
00:14:17,030 --> 00:14:21,120
that we'd done also come
first equal. Then we have, um,

187
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:22,800
Uenuku Fairhall.

188
00:14:25,740 --> 00:14:28,880
Of course what's his
name? Irirangi Tiakiawa,

189
00:14:29,970 --> 00:14:34,520
Uncle Hamu Mitchell, uh, Henry
Northcroft I think his name.

190
00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:40,110
So been very fortunate to have
some really humdinger legends,

191
00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,490
legends, you know, some people use that,

192
00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,410
that term very lightly, but, uh,

193
00:14:48,390 --> 00:14:51,920
we were very lucky with Rangiwewehi to
have a lot of people who actually asked

194
00:14:52,420 --> 00:14:55,640
to do compositions for us. So yeah,

195
00:14:55,990 --> 00:14:59,200
without tohunga like that in the reo

196
00:15:01,660 --> 00:15:02,493
our waiata, whakaeke, whakamutunga

197
00:15:05,930 --> 00:15:07,720
would not have come to life.

198
00:15:08,180 --> 00:15:12,790
And it's always good to have their
ingoa at the bottom of the paper

199
00:15:14,060 --> 00:15:17,510
because, um, believe it or not, not many,

200
00:15:17,710 --> 00:15:20,830
many people liked us in the
nineties Ngāti Rangiwewehi,

201
00:15:22,370 --> 00:15:26,990
but because we had the mana of their
name on our paper, they, you know,

202
00:15:28,020 --> 00:15:31,420
they were a bit more fair. I dunno why
they always pick on the penny divers.

203
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:37,780
So composing, cuz and
composing haka in particular.

204
00:15:39,050 --> 00:15:40,060
Tell us about that.

205
00:15:42,900 --> 00:15:46,940
I remember in 1991, uh, there was a, um,

206
00:15:47,930 --> 00:15:52,930
hui with all the candidates who
wanted to be judges at the 1992

207
00:15:53,130 --> 00:15:55,410
festival and Koro Hamu was still alive.

208
00:15:56,870 --> 00:16:01,290
And he proceeded to lecture all the
judges and whoever was else was present

209
00:16:01,291 --> 00:16:02,730
there on the word haka

210
00:16:04,620 --> 00:16:09,250
means dance does not mean
men's posture dance it

211
00:16:10,180 --> 00:16:15,080
means dance. So that year
in 1992 Rangiwewehi, the,

212
00:16:17,740 --> 00:16:21,520
the program that we had was

213
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,480
haka, whakaeke obviously mōteatea,

214
00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,440
haka poi, haka
waiata-ā-ringa, haka taparahi,

215
00:16:32,860 --> 00:16:37,550
haka whakawātea, but
it's sort of lost again.

216
00:16:37,650 --> 00:16:41,110
And now the haka is
the male posture dance,

217
00:16:42,330 --> 00:16:45,830
but in regards to composing
and like once again,

218
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:47,990
we've had Te Ururoa
Flavell, Fairhall and Timoti

219
00:16:50,650 --> 00:16:55,220
and Irirangi. And I don't
think we really had a,

220
00:16:55,380 --> 00:16:59,140
a political haka if I can remember.

221
00:16:59,820 --> 00:17:03,540
I think Irirangi wrote
one that's for us in

222
00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:10,000
Avondale in 79, that is, um, is used
a lot nowadays by, um, Ngāti Pikiao.

223
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,160
His one, he wrote in 1986,

224
00:17:15,470 --> 00:17:19,510
I think we won was about, um, drugs,

225
00:17:19,900 --> 00:17:21,390
different sort of drugs. Um,

226
00:17:21,970 --> 00:17:25,870
and there was a coup itself that we won
that haka because we had nine policemen

227
00:17:25,871 --> 00:17:29,430
in the group and we had to act
stoned, or they had to act stoned,

228
00:17:29,431 --> 00:17:31,750
but luckily they had, um,

229
00:17:33,870 --> 00:17:37,300
cousin and relations who could
tell 'em how to look, you know,

230
00:17:41,300 --> 00:17:45,420
uh, but one of the haka I
enjoyed most was doing was, um,

231
00:17:47,060 --> 00:17:50,520
well we did in 90, 92 was about,
um, based on Rangi and Papa

232
00:17:52,900 --> 00:17:56,640
Uenuku Fairhall come back with a haka
that was about eight minutes long.

233
00:17:56,820 --> 00:18:01,000
So we had to edit it down
to about five minutes 20,

234
00:18:03,060 --> 00:18:07,720
But in that haka we displayed our

235
00:18:07,721 --> 00:18:08,554
history,

236
00:18:09,450 --> 00:18:14,150
How Rangi and Papa were
separated By lying on the back

237
00:18:14,330 --> 00:18:16,430
and pushing up of the legs.

238
00:18:17,730 --> 00:18:19,990
And in those days they didn't
have the Olympic system.

239
00:18:19,991 --> 00:18:24,190
And I think we had a a hundred, a
hundred, a hunderd, eighty nine.

240
00:18:26,530 --> 00:18:31,380
And his comments, which Kingi Ihaka
actually put it in his book as well.

241
00:18:32,100 --> 00:18:34,620
And he said, oh my God
is a haka come to that.

242
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,940
Now people lying on their
backs Showing their bums.

243
00:18:40,180 --> 00:18:42,220
And in fact, all we were
trying to do is depict

244
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:49,260
the separation as it was written
in history. So, um, but nowadays

245
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:56,170
there's, there's no more boundaries
anymore, but, uh, once again, you know,

246
00:18:56,171 --> 00:19:00,130
you gotta have, um, first of all, you
gotta come up with a, a kaupapa and

247
00:19:02,011 --> 00:19:04,450
then he down with the,
the, the gurus, like, uh,

248
00:19:05,060 --> 00:19:08,250
Timoti one of his haka
that he wrote for us too,

249
00:19:08,270 --> 00:19:09,103
in 2000 was on Ngā Tamatoa o Tūmatauenga.

250
00:19:14,060 --> 00:19:18,000
And I think between us, we came up
with the name rōmera he said, Hiwaroa,

251
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,760
Hiwaroa, he aha te kupu māori mo Rommel?
I don't know you're the professor.

252
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,280
How about Rōmera? Okay. That's it.

253
00:19:26,420 --> 00:19:30,870
But I really enjoyed that haka
only because the boys all read

254
00:19:33,271 --> 00:19:38,150
up on the Māori battalion and how Rommel
said if he had the Māori battalion in

255
00:19:38,151 --> 00:19:39,950
that, uh, second world
war he would've won.

256
00:19:40,730 --> 00:19:44,990
And another favorite of mine
also was my, um, Koro Haane,

257
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,590
Haane Manahi who missed out on the VC.

258
00:19:48,740 --> 00:19:52,060
Many people don't know the
relationship. My second name is Hiwaroa.

259
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:53,913
And Hiwaroa was Haanes tuakana.

260
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,860
Hiwaroa didn't get to go to the
war because he had kawharangi ears.

261
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,860
And, um, my koroua Hiwroa didn't
like me much because I was fair.

262
00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:09,500
He didn't like girls So he didn't
like Donna, but he liked Richie,

263
00:20:09,501 --> 00:20:10,460
cos he was a little kākahi.

264
00:20:10,461 --> 00:20:14,250
He called him kākahi cos everyday ge'd
come back with about a dozen kākahi from

265
00:20:14,270 --> 00:20:17,570
the, um, from the lake anyway, I
dunno where I'm going in this track,

266
00:20:17,571 --> 00:20:22,210
but it was Uncle Haane who taught
me how to hunt and fish because,

267
00:20:22,211 --> 00:20:27,130
because of my koroua not
fancying me as much as, um,

268
00:20:28,190 --> 00:20:32,560
he did, um, to Tau my brother. But yeah,

269
00:20:32,950 --> 00:20:36,400
when you get a great kaupapa like
that and you instill into the boys,

270
00:20:36,430 --> 00:20:40,360
read the history, what he done,
it sort of lifts, especially

271
00:20:42,430 --> 00:20:44,200
When a leader sees him going down.

272
00:20:45,740 --> 00:20:47,480
If they keep going down and don't lift

273
00:20:49,860 --> 00:20:54,440
the leaders the fault, not the boys. So
he's the one who's gotta walk the ranks,

274
00:20:54,860 --> 00:20:58,680
go to the side and look at his men and
hopefully they can see him and just try

275
00:20:58,681 --> 00:20:59,514
and give them that

276
00:21:00,900 --> 00:21:04,800
bit more push to end the
as it starts because, um,

277
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,270
a good haka will always end as it starts.

278
00:21:08,810 --> 00:21:12,590
You see a lot of now they go
like a bull out of a gate,

279
00:21:12,750 --> 00:21:14,070
but by the time they get to the end,

280
00:21:15,060 --> 00:21:19,310
they phased out and it's actually
their wahine that lift that,

281
00:21:19,380 --> 00:21:24,310
lift that item up again. So, uh,
yeah, one of my favorite items,

282
00:21:24,490 --> 00:21:28,460
but not my really favorite. My favorite
of all time would have to be the, um,

283
00:21:28,460 --> 00:21:32,700
whakaeke because then you can expand and

284
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:34,340
go outside the boundaries
of haka taparahi, peruperu,
te mea, te mea, te mea,

285
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:35,273
Hmm.

286
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,220
Now just speaking about
leadership cuz in your opinion,

287
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:46,500
can anyone be a leader?

288
00:21:48,190 --> 00:21:51,450
No, not anyone can be a leader.

289
00:21:52,470 --> 00:21:54,810
The group nine times outta 10,

290
00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:59,530
usually pick who they
want the leaders to be.

291
00:22:00,510 --> 00:22:04,050
But if you ain't got
respect from the rōpū, uh,

292
00:22:04,770 --> 00:22:09,320
you might as well stay home and not,
not decide not to compete. Um, very,

293
00:22:09,430 --> 00:22:13,280
very important to have
the respect from you rōpū,

294
00:22:14,180 --> 00:22:15,120
to be the leader yea.

295
00:22:16,740 --> 00:22:20,120
How far has Te Ao Haka taken you in life?

296
00:22:21,710 --> 00:22:26,470
Well, we have a saying in
our family have piupiu,

297
00:22:26,470 --> 00:22:28,470
will travel and because of that,

298
00:22:29,700 --> 00:22:34,300
I've traversed the world about three
or four times back in the eighties,

299
00:22:34,301 --> 00:22:39,180
when we toured, um, north America
and Canada. And then later in Europe,

300
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:44,620
you get to shake hands with
dignitaries, presidents of, uh, uh,

301
00:22:44,621 --> 00:22:47,340
sorry, prime ministers of
Canada and all these countries.

302
00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:51,610
And you you've been entertained at the
government house and you're standing

303
00:22:51,611 --> 00:22:55,610
there and at the time I was on the
dole. So what do you do back home? Um,

304
00:22:55,610 --> 00:23:00,130
Howard, Howard as they speak
in the proper English in

305
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:05,210
England Howard What do you do? Howard
and Uncle Trev quick as a flash come in,

306
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,570
he's in a third year of training to
be a brain surgeon. That's right.

307
00:23:10,220 --> 00:23:13,840
That's right. But you know,
because of kapa haka, it's,

308
00:23:15,150 --> 00:23:18,360
it's opened so many doors for me
that otherwise would not have.

309
00:23:19,980 --> 00:23:23,760
And um, I would encourage all our people,

310
00:23:25,580 --> 00:23:30,000
not just Māori to have a
go at kapa haka at kura,

311
00:23:30,780 --> 00:23:33,950
because it gives you confidence
to stand up in front of a crowd.

312
00:23:34,530 --> 00:23:38,390
It gives you the, the feeling
of being proud of who you are,

313
00:23:39,180 --> 00:23:42,990
because while you're on that stage,
you are the center of the universe.

314
00:23:43,090 --> 00:23:46,960
You have their undivided attention for
the 20, 30 minutes while you're up there.

315
00:23:47,740 --> 00:23:52,200
So make use of it and just be proud
of, of who you are in your culture.

316
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:53,660
It, it, um,

317
00:23:53,660 --> 00:23:57,360
upsets me when I see our kids walking
around with their pants down around their,

318
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,000
their knees and they're calling
me G I dunno what a G is or,

319
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,910
or homey and all like that. You
know, that that's a different, it's a

320
00:24:06,780 --> 00:24:11,630
Afro-American culture that they actually
just made up themselves because they're

321
00:24:11,631 --> 00:24:15,950
not originally from America, they were
taken to America as slaves. So, um,

322
00:24:16,470 --> 00:24:19,430
I feel for them because they don't
have their own culture, whereas us,

323
00:24:19,710 --> 00:24:23,030
we have our own culture, you know,

324
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:24,950
where would we be without our marae?

325
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:32,380
So just speaking about some of our
rangatahi who have lost their way,

326
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,300
How can you see kapa haka

327
00:24:40,690 --> 00:24:41,860
enhancing their lives?

328
00:24:42,970 --> 00:24:47,650
Well, it gives them, um,
confidence, bit of self-esteem

329
00:24:49,270 --> 00:24:49,840
And, uh,

330
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:54,290
it's amazing the transformation that
many people who just take up kapa haka,

331
00:24:54,910 --> 00:24:59,810
how they, they end up because I've
had, um, many performing arts modules.

332
00:24:59,850 --> 00:25:01,330
I helped Donna down in Gisborne.

333
00:25:02,050 --> 00:25:05,970
I had one in south Auckland
with Waipareira and you,

334
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,280
you get these shy boys, you know,
they or girls and they come down,

335
00:25:09,281 --> 00:25:12,320
they can't even, they look at,
they can't even look at you,

336
00:25:12,780 --> 00:25:14,400
but you put them on the
stage in the piupiu,

337
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,240
shesh it's a different sort of person.

338
00:25:17,020 --> 00:25:19,440
And it's just trying to teach them,

339
00:25:20,030 --> 00:25:24,080
instill in them to have that same
confidence they have on the stage with,

340
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,480
with normal life. It's a very,

341
00:25:26,830 --> 00:25:31,030
very good mechanism for our
people to set a platform. I mean,

342
00:25:31,031 --> 00:25:33,430
and nowadays we can get into varsity,

343
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,510
which was shunned back by certain
politics back, back in the day.

344
00:25:37,530 --> 00:25:41,750
But if they get their unit standards
and standards in kapa haka,

345
00:25:42,380 --> 00:25:43,390
they got a foot in the door,

346
00:25:43,391 --> 00:25:46,990
otherwise they wouldn't have had that
foot in the door to pursue their,

347
00:25:47,550 --> 00:25:49,540
their life in universities.

348
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:54,500
And if they decided not to learn the
reo and do something else, hei aha.

349
00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:00,340
The thing is it gives them an opportunity
to further their education. Hmm.

350
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:07,140
How important is competitive haka

351
00:26:09,510 --> 00:26:10,343
to you?

352
00:26:12,450 --> 00:26:15,250
Uh, back in the nineties, it
was A and B all, everything,

353
00:26:16,710 --> 00:26:20,370
No one liked to lose. I
was a very sore loser,

354
00:26:22,070 --> 00:26:26,810
But I got over myself
because to be a good winner,

355
00:26:27,590 --> 00:26:29,000
you have to be a good loser.

356
00:26:30,300 --> 00:26:32,720
So when Waka Huia beat us,

357
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:37,480
I went up and I'm very close to the Wehi
family me, shook, shook, Richie's hand.

358
00:26:38,060 --> 00:26:41,280
See you next time cuz yea. 94 they
beat us. I shook his hand again,

359
00:26:41,700 --> 00:26:42,760
see you next time cuz.

360
00:26:43,380 --> 00:26:46,920
And then we beat him the 96 and he
come first one to come out to me,

361
00:26:48,020 --> 00:26:51,080
see you next time cuz. So, um,

362
00:26:52,460 --> 00:26:54,920
as I got older, it wasn't
about the winning anymore.

363
00:26:55,780 --> 00:27:00,560
It was just sitting back and
playing the guitar and having

364
00:27:00,620 --> 00:27:04,470
39 other people in front
of you and just going, wow,

365
00:27:05,460 --> 00:27:08,390
this has been a journey.
Everyone in this group,

366
00:27:08,391 --> 00:27:12,590
39 people have got their own
story to tell they've spent about

367
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,270
three to $5,000 each getting
to the dang festival,

368
00:27:16,900 --> 00:27:20,870
babysitters and nohos and,
and new uniforms. And,

369
00:27:22,270 --> 00:27:24,740
and, uh, not that the Rangiwewehi
girls ever suffered from this,

370
00:27:24,741 --> 00:27:29,140
but they used to use a lot of makeup,
hairdos, all those other things.

371
00:27:29,380 --> 00:27:31,340
They go that ladies like doing
before they hit the stage.

372
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,980
But there's the commitment
that, that not only the 39,

373
00:27:35,981 --> 00:27:37,980
you've got all your kaumatua
and your kuia and your,

374
00:27:38,620 --> 00:27:41,900
your aunties and your uncles and, and
your tamariki all sitting out there,

375
00:27:41,901 --> 00:27:45,730
they've all spent big money on you.
So when you're standing up there,

376
00:27:45,731 --> 00:27:50,450
it's not about just you, you
are the face of your whānau.

377
00:27:50,710 --> 00:27:53,530
You are the face of your hapū,
you are the face of your waka.

378
00:27:54,190 --> 00:27:58,810
You are the face of, of māoridom.
And there's no better feeling.

379
00:27:58,970 --> 00:28:03,730
I mean, dad used to say to me and Donna,
why do you fellas rehearse so long?

380
00:28:04,430 --> 00:28:08,400
Just for 20 used to be 20 minutes on
the stage. And we try to explain to him,

381
00:28:08,470 --> 00:28:11,400
it's just something that's
been instilled in us,

382
00:28:11,590 --> 00:28:15,920
just going on that stage,
and strutting your stuff.

383
00:28:17,070 --> 00:28:20,360
This is me. This is us.
Take it or leave it.

384
00:28:20,740 --> 00:28:25,670
It was your opportunity to
show the world who you were and

385
00:28:25,671 --> 00:28:29,310
how proud of you or
who you were. So, yeah.

386
00:28:30,650 --> 00:28:34,550
Ka pai tērā, final
question back to composing.

387
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,230
Where do you draw your inspiration from?

388
00:28:38,140 --> 00:28:38,973
Past events?

389
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,770
Like the eruption of Tarawera,

390
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,920
um, Māori battalion. My
koroua Haane Manahi, once

391
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you pick a good kaupapa
ideas, just come naturally.

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But the worst thing you can
do is try and force an idea.

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00:29:01,601 --> 00:29:04,840
Once you start forcing an,
an idea, it becomes fake.

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00:29:06,350 --> 00:29:10,990
Our entry in 1992, Ohomairangi
tells the whole history of our waka,

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00:29:12,370 --> 00:29:13,203
the name.

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00:29:14,410 --> 00:29:19,310
So once you pick that kaupapa
your mind starts ticking over,

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00:29:19,590 --> 00:29:22,830
oh man, we can depict the, like
this, the Korokoro o te Parata, Ooh,

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00:29:22,850 --> 00:29:27,260
that's another one, you know, Koro
Haane, Pink and White Terracess.

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00:29:28,460 --> 00:29:31,860
Um, our entry in 1992 was, uh,

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00:29:32,740 --> 00:29:34,380
I think that was a trend setter for us.

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00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,140
That's when Rangiwewehi started
to change their style a bit.

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00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,080
It took a long time for the group to
accept that entry. But once we did it,

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00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:48,240
it was, um, yeah, I was either a hero or
zero, but I was a hero after that one,

404
00:29:49,470 --> 00:29:54,400
obviously the Māori battalion. So
once you've got a really meaty,

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00:29:54,450 --> 00:29:58,320
meaningful kaupapa, all the, all the
ideas start filtering through your head,

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00:29:58,321 --> 00:30:03,030
you know, you can do this,
you can action as a, as a, uh,

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00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,190
throwing a hand grenade or something
like that using the koikoi as a,

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00:30:07,750 --> 00:30:10,510
as a bayonet. So, uh, you know,

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00:30:10,511 --> 00:30:13,110
when you dig deeper into the
kaupapa of what you're saying, it,

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00:30:13,350 --> 00:30:16,110
you sort of instills you, oh man,
I've gotta do this properly or,

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00:30:16,670 --> 00:30:20,230
or don't do it at all. But, um, yeah.

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00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,060
Any final kōrero from
you about Te Ao Haka?

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00:30:26,770 --> 00:30:31,180
Well, for me personally, Te Ao Haka,
if I didn't have Te Ao Haka in my life,

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00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:33,900
I'd probably be a boring person.

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00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:38,660
Be proud of who you are, Māori.

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00:00:10,340 --> 00:00:15,000
Kapa haka is very much the essence.
It's the performing art of the language.

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00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,480
But I think they were our
superheroes. We're like, man,

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00:00:18,579 --> 00:00:19,840
one day we wanna be like that.

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00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:21,989
So we trial, I was 14.

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00:00:22,310 --> 00:00:26,790
I just thought it was the most
amazing thing that I had made reserve.

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00:00:27,220 --> 00:00:31,110
Leading the is probably one of
the best privileges of my life.

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00:00:33,260 --> 00:00:36,950
Welcome to Te Ao Haka podcast for the
Ministry of Education our kaikōrero today

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00:00:36,950 --> 00:00:38,150
is Te Rita Papesch.

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Oh, nei rā te mihi ki a koe Aunty.
For as long as I've known you,

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00:00:49,270 --> 00:00:53,510
Te Ao Haka has been your life,
but what was your earliest memory?

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00:01:00,650 --> 00:01:02,300
ĀE. Um, me kī, i tipu ake au i roto i
tētahi whānau e ngākaunui ana ki te puoro.

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00:01:02,300 --> 00:01:02,300
Āna, ko taku Pāpā, i
Pirongia mātou e noho ana,

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00:01:02,300 --> 00:01:02,300
a ko taku Pāpā he tangata whakarite
cider mai i te taramu kōwhai ngā mea

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00:01:02,300 --> 00:01:02,300
pakupaku nāreira ia tau he
pīki pāti i roto i a Pirongia,

15
00:01:02,300 --> 00:01:02,300
ka haere mai ngā pakeke o te wāhi rā,
a ka noho ki reira inu ai, kai ai,

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00:01:02,300 --> 00:01:02,300
waiata ai. Ana ka maumahara au i
taku Māmā e pūrei ana i te piana,

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00:01:02,300 --> 00:01:02,300
i reira tētahi e pūrei ana i te Ukulele,

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00:01:02,300 --> 00:01:02,300
i reira tētahi atu e pūrei
ana i te T Chest, slap bass,

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00:01:02,300 --> 00:01:02,300
kua hangaia ki te T chest ana ka
puta mai ngā waiata māori i taua wā.

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00:01:02,300 --> 00:01:02,300
Ahakoa kāre tōku reo māori i taua wā,
i tau pai ai ngā kupu ki aku taringa.

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00:01:02,300 --> 00:01:02,933
Nāreira me kī koira te tīmatanga ana ka

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00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:52,753
whakatūria he

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community center ki te wāhi e tū ai
to mātou marae o Pūrekireki inaeanei.

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00:02:11,971 --> 00:02:11,971
Engari i te tīmatanga he
community center noa iho.

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00:02:11,971 --> 00:02:11,971
Ana ko tētahi o ngā mahi
ki reira ko te mahi haka.

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00:02:11,971 --> 00:02:11,971
Nāreira i kite au i aku pakeke, aku
tuākana, tungāne pakeke i ahau e mahi ana.

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Kāre a Te Rita i haka, i whakarongo
noa au, i waiata i nga waiata.

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Tae atu ai au ki te kura tuarua ki
Sacred Hart ki roto o Kirikiriroa.

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He kapa haka tō mātoui tō mātou kura.

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I taua wā ko tō mātou
kaiako ko Maria Bradshaw.

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Whai muri mai i hurihia hei Tini, Maria
Tini, i mārena ia ki tētahi o kōnei nā,

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nō Waikato nei. Nā te mea,

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he kōtiro tonu a Maria me tana
mōhio ki ahau hei kaipuoro me kī,

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00:02:11,971 --> 00:02:11,971
i āwhina ahau i a ia ki te taha waiata
me te taha whakaako i ngā waiata.

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00:02:11,971 --> 00:02:11,971
Nāreira i tere kuhu au ki te ao haka i
ōku tau tekau ma toru, tekau ma whā, ana,

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00:02:11,971 --> 00:02:12,804
kāre he otinga i taua wā.

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So in 1979, you won the female leadership.

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It was the first time that they'd
actually had that category, kōrero mai.

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Well me kī, kāre au te paku mōhio,

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koira tētahi o ngā taonga e
āhei ana mātou ngā kaihaka.

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Kāre mātou i te paku
mōhio ki tērā āhuatanga.

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Nā runga anō te whiriwhiri o Timoti
ko ahau hei kaitātaki mo te kapa,

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mo Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato.
Kāre he pōti he aha rānei,

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nā te atua kē i kī mai 'ko koe!'.

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Ahakoa ngā hiahia o ngētehi atu o te kapa
me te whiu pātai 'Ko wai ia?' 'Nō whea

46
00:03:43,100 --> 00:03:43,100
mai ia?' He hononga kē tō māua ko
Timoti mai te wā e tamariki ana au.

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00:03:43,100 --> 00:03:43,100
Tino mōhio ia ki ētehi o aku
tuakana. I te wā i mārena ia,

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i tū mai a Timoti mō tana tāne nā
te mea he reo Tiamana tō Timoti.

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Ana kāre he reo pākehā tō te tāne o
taku tuakana engari he reo Tiamana tōna.

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I te wā hoki tuatahi mai
ai a Timoti i Rānana,

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ko taku Māmā hoki tērā i poipoi a ia,
whakamōhiohio haere ia ki tēnei takiwā,

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ki tēnei taone. Nāreira i whakaritea
e Timoti, ko au te kaitātaki,

53
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i titoa tētahi poi e kōrero ana
mo Te Whanganui-ā-Tara me te roto,

54
00:03:43,100 --> 00:03:43,100
te Moana-o-Raukawa. Ngā momo
moutere kei roto rā i taua moana.

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Ngā mahi a te wheke ā
Kupe. Nāreira āe me kī,

56
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he tino ohorere ano mātou katoa i te
wā i karangahia ko ahau hei kaitātaki

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00:03:43,100 --> 00:03:43,100
wahine matua o te motu i
taua wā. He mea ohorere noa.

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Kāre i whakaritea kia wini i
au. I mahi noa au i tāku mahi.

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I rongo kōrero nō muri mai,
nā ngā kaiwhakawā tāne kē
ahau i whakatau. Ko ahau.

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Ana ko John Te Rangianiwaniwa Rangihau
tērā, ko Tenga Rangitauira tērā,

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00:03:43,100 --> 00:03:43,100
Aunty Ngoi Pewhairangi koia
hoki tētahi. Taku maumahara,

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nā ngā tāne kē i akiaki i ngā wāhine
kaiwhakawā ki te whiriwhiri ko au tēnā.

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He aha ai, ki tō whakaaro, he
aha ai i whakaihu waka koe?

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With.

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And.

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So besides performing arts,

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the reo has also been an important
part of Te Ao Haka for you and Te Whare

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00:09:28,190 --> 00:09:28,803
Wānanga o Waikato. Can

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you tell us about those very early
years within Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato.

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I te wā i tīmata ai Te Whare Wānanga
o Waikato hei kapa whakataetae,

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
he kapa kē i reira mo te ngahau noa
iho engari hui tahi mātou ki ngā pō reo

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
rangatira. Ki te whakapakari
te reo o ngā ākonga.

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
I puta i reira te whakaaro
kia tū he kapa whakataetae.

74
00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
I reira a Aunty Greta
i taua wā, a Hekia mā.

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
So koira te hiahia o Timoti
me ngētehi atu o ngā kaiako,

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
me mātou kia tū te kapa. Heoi anō, mai i
tana tīmatanga tae noa ki tana matenga,

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ko te reo whakaako, te reo whakahaere,
te reo kōrerorero ko te reo māori.

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Kāre a Timoti, ā wai ake. Ka eke
māua ko Tio hei kaiako i te kapa,

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
ko maua hoki tērā.

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
Engari kāre ōku reo maori i te wā
i tīmata nāreira ka taea pea te kī,

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
ko au tētahi, i pakari taku reo nā
ngā tohutohu ā Timoti i roto i te reo,

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
nā te whakarongo ki te reo e
whakaehaerengia ana i roto i te mahi haka.

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
Koira te tino wāhi i mau
pū i au tōku reo māori.

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
Me taku mōhio whai muri mai i au,

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
he maha tonu ngā kaihaka i kuhu ki roto
ki te kapa o Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
kāre o rātou reo māori engari nā te kapa,

87
00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
nā te ako i te haka i ū ai ō
rātou reo and kei reira tonu.

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
Ko rātou kei pēnā i a koe i
mua, kei te whakaako i te reo,

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
te nuinga o ratou inaeanei. Kua
whai oranga ai ratou i te reo.

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
Ahakoa te ki o tangata ō waho rā kāre
he paku hua ki roto i te reo māori,

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
tokomaha o mātou kua
whai oranga mo te wā roa.

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
Ahau nuku i te whā tekau tau
kua ora ai au i taku reo.

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
Nāreira taku mihi nui ki Tā Takuta
Timoti Karetu mo te mau pūmau ki te reo

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
māori.

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
Maumahara au i te wā ko Doug Hauraki
tonu to matou kaiwhakahaere i te ao o Te

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
Matatini,

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
ka huri rauna ia ki ngā kapa katoa e
whakarite ana mō i taua wā ko te Aotearoa

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
Traditional Māori Performing Arts Festival
tonu te ingoa, me tana kī kia mātou,

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00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,070
ko mātou anakē te kapa i whakahaere
ana ingā mahi katoa i roto i te reo.

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Kāre mo te paku reo rua, paku
huri ki te reo pākehā. He uaua.

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Um,

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00:18:16,740 --> 00:18:18,070
it's about breathing,

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00:18:19,530 --> 00:18:24,100
your main tool is controlling
your breathing and your breathing

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00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:28,260
allows you one to get
clarity of tone, to get, um,

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00:18:28,550 --> 00:18:30,050
range of note,

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00:18:30,750 --> 00:18:35,210
to maintain those ranges of
notes. With the clarity of tone,

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00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:39,330
it's all about the breathing. You know,
that's why we say to people, if you can,

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00:18:39,690 --> 00:18:40,530
you know, if you don't smoke,

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00:18:40,531 --> 00:18:45,490
it's a real good helper in terms
of getting a really clear tone and

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00:18:45,491 --> 00:18:49,530
a clear high tone. Um, and you know,

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00:18:49,740 --> 00:18:54,320
we know some kapa and some singers
are already well known for that.

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00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:55,660
Um,

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00:18:55,660 --> 00:19:00,440
and I certainly encourage
my kaihaka wahine and,

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00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:05,480
and the men, those who have got tenor
voices or good strong high baritone. No,

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00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,040
no, you're not gonna go around
haka haka haere, you know,

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00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:08,754
te whakaputa i tērā reo hakahaka ō raro.

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00:19:11,630 --> 00:19:14,710
I force them or encourage them, uh,

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00:19:14,930 --> 00:19:19,310
to lift and especially with rangatahi
because their voices haven't settled,

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00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,910
their voices haven't
settled, but unfortunately,

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00:19:23,109 --> 00:19:27,940
a lot of our young kaiako
create their rangi too low.

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00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,650
And so you're not getting that beauty
of voice that still exists in a young

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00:19:32,651 --> 00:19:35,770
voice. I remember doing
a master class, um,

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00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,730
when I was learning opera
and Joan Sutherland,

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00:19:40,250 --> 00:19:44,850
who was a well known international opera
singer was doing the masterclass for

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00:19:44,851 --> 00:19:48,369
us. And I was one of the ones
that was picked to sing for her.

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00:19:49,230 --> 00:19:50,890
And the first thing she asked me,

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00:19:50,891 --> 00:19:53,960
I only sung about two lines and
she stopped playing. And she goes,

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00:19:54,510 --> 00:19:58,310
when did you start learning?
I said, oh, when I was 10,

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00:19:58,930 --> 00:20:02,770
she goes way too early. She
goes way too early. She goes,

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00:20:02,771 --> 00:20:06,250
because I was 26, about
this time. She said,

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00:20:06,251 --> 00:20:09,570
because your voice doesn't find
itself until you're about 18.

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00:20:10,630 --> 00:20:15,480
And I think our secondary school
tutors don't understand that

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00:20:16,170 --> 00:20:18,480
about the kind of voices
they've got in front of them,

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00:20:18,630 --> 00:20:22,960
because they don't understand the side
of music and singing and how to produce

135
00:20:22,980 --> 00:20:25,600
and project, your voice
and those techniques.

136
00:20:26,050 --> 00:20:29,600
We're not taught them in Te Ao
Haka. Um, and I think we need to,

137
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:34,910
I think that's a, an absolute
area that we tend to neglect.

138
00:20:34,930 --> 00:20:36,390
We think about all the Maori stuff,

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00:20:36,690 --> 00:20:40,630
but we forget about the tools
that our bodies bring with us.

140
00:20:41,609 --> 00:20:45,510
And, you know, that's why I've always
said to my babies, my younger daughters,

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00:20:46,690 --> 00:20:51,140
you are not singing anywhere except
soprano. And this was before, you know,

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00:20:51,140 --> 00:20:55,980
Te Ingo 20. I said, no, no.
And even now, um, Te Wairere,

143
00:20:56,181 --> 00:20:58,820
even though she's in her
late twenties and thirties,

144
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,700
her soprano voice is still flourishing,

145
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:07,650
but because she's been teaching for a
while and teaching damages, your voice.

146
00:21:08,910 --> 00:21:10,890
So, you know, once you become the teacher,

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00:21:11,300 --> 00:21:16,170
especially if you are like me and
you tend to yell a bit, you know,

148
00:21:16,171 --> 00:21:19,210
which is not good for the voice. Um, yeah.

149
00:21:19,550 --> 00:21:24,010
So I think we need to have
that in Te Ao Haka the absolute

150
00:21:24,011 --> 00:21:28,080
understanding of how a voice
grows the physiology of the tinana

151
00:21:29,380 --> 00:21:33,400
and how things grow and
develop and not smash our kids,

152
00:21:34,380 --> 00:21:38,520
um, by creating low melodies,
which is what I hear.

153
00:21:39,310 --> 00:21:42,130
Can you talk to us a little bit
more about those low melodies,

154
00:21:42,131 --> 00:21:46,570
because I've often found that yes,
they you'll get a male composer

155
00:21:49,020 --> 00:21:50,720
who'll set it quite low. Yeah.

156
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,040
And unfortunately, um,

157
00:21:54,390 --> 00:21:55,920
even in the poi and the waiata-ā-ringa,

158
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:02,920
in the tune side of it, a lot of
the males are dominating there. Um,

159
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:08,080
I think females have to take over
more of the creating of not only the,

160
00:22:08,410 --> 00:22:10,470
the actions, but the, the melodies.

161
00:22:11,290 --> 00:22:15,830
And I certainly know that with my
own that's their concentration.

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00:22:16,609 --> 00:22:21,590
Um, but it's, it really is
down to the kaiako. And I,

163
00:22:21,830 --> 00:22:26,790
and I think if they know that
young voices have not matured,

164
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so they're not set into any
space, you can push them.

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And in fact,

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for longevity of clear tone and
ability to reach the high notes,

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sorry, best you don't push them,

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otherwise you ain't gonna get
any high notes out of them.

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And I've seen that in a lot of secondary
groups, which, which, you know,

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I get amazed when they come on
stage and they're blaring really

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blaring, but, and I mean, it's
hard on the ears and I think,

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but you've got beautiful, sweet voices.
Why aren't your teachers using them?

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So I think me akiaki
tātou i ngō tātou kaiako,

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rātou e huri ana ki te whakako i te haka.

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Me whai whakaaro i ngā reo o ngā
tmariki. Kāre ano kia tau hei reo pakeke.

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I still wanna stick
within the feminine realm.

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Mm-hmm ara ko tēnei wāhanga o
te mau patu, ērā momo āhutanga.

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Okay. Well, I mean, I, I
don't tell this story often,

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but my children know it and some of, um,

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00:23:37,020 --> 00:23:41,720
his children know it, but, uh,
after I won the first prize,

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um, and at that time Rangihau was
our kaumātua in the research center.

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And the research center was in the
same papa as the tari māori. And, um,

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I was a student still at, at
Waikato. And it was after that,

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that after I won the first time he
come and asked me if I would like

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to be taught by him. Hika!,
Ko wai te pōrangi ka kī kāo?

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I tere pēnei au ki a ia nāreira
nā Te Rangihau ahau i whakaako.

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He whakakoranga roa tērā. I a
toru pō nuku atu i te ono marama,

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ka haramai ia ki tōku taha ki te
whakaako i ahau. Mai te māramatanga,

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00:24:02,801 --> 00:24:02,801
he aha tēnei mea te patu?
Patu tangata kia mate,

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00:24:02,801 --> 00:24:02,801
i ako au i ērā āhuatanga me te mau i
te patu rā hei tiaki i taku tinana,

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hei arai atu i ngā mea kino ērā momo
whakamāramatanga ka tō ana ki au.

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00:24:02,801 --> 00:24:02,801
Nōku te waimaria, engari
ko tana kī mai ki au,

193
00:24:02,801 --> 00:24:02,801
nā te tiaki o taku Māmā i a rātou ko
tana whānau i te wā i nuku mai ia ki

194
00:24:02,801 --> 00:24:02,801
Kirikiriroa, i te noho
nama ia ki taku Māmā.

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00:24:02,801 --> 00:24:03,634
Ki ā ia koira te huarahi hei utu
i taua nama. Nōku te waimaria.

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Right place, right time me kī. Um,

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but I remember the first,
very large judges hui,

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that they ever held, um,

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was at Tūrangawaewae where they
brought, there was kind of that time in,

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in the growth of the festival,

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00:25:31,790 --> 00:25:35,390
bringing all the judges together
and starting to create, um,

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a way of looking at how to judge,
because they didn't have set rules down.

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00:25:40,930 --> 00:25:43,830
The very first festival
had handwritten rules,

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which I do have a copy of
an appendices on my PhD.

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And it was because Uncle Bill Kerekere
had kept the copy written in Kingi Ihakas

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00:25:53,181 --> 00:25:56,540
handwriting that were their rule.

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00:25:56,541 --> 00:25:59,700
That's where those were their
rules for the very first festival.

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But years after that, there
were no hard and fast rules. So,

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um, now I digressed a bit,
what was the question again?

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00:26:10,770 --> 00:26:15,570
Uh, round Mau Rākau. Oh, around Mau
Rākau and Mau Patu yeah, Mau Patu.

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00:26:16,630 --> 00:26:20,090
And I remember, um, being at that hui
and I was really a tonotono mo Timoti

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00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:25,609
and, um, Hamuera Mitchell and
he matua nōku tērā koroua.

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00:26:25,609 --> 00:26:25,609
Koia e Uncle o taku Māmā ake.

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00:26:25,609 --> 00:26:25,609
Uh I haere mai ia me te kī 'he aha
i kore ai haramai ki au to matua,

215
00:26:25,609 --> 00:26:26,223
māku koe e whakaako'

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Ka huri a Timoti me te kī ' Kāre
koe i tono ki aia kia haere atu'.

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00:27:19,180 --> 00:27:19,180
Koira te take.

218
00:27:19,180 --> 00:27:19,180
Āe e kore au e haere atu ki te pātōtō i
te kuwaha me te pātai atu 'Me whakaako

219
00:27:19,180 --> 00:27:19,180
mai i ahau koa?' Nā te mea i aua wā,

220
00:27:19,180 --> 00:27:19,180
kāre anō a Irirangi kia
tīmata i tana whare tū taua.

221
00:27:19,180 --> 00:27:19,180
Hei whakaako i ngēra momo
mau patu, mau rakau roa hoki.

222
00:27:19,180 --> 00:27:19,180
Kāre anō te whare tū taua o Pita
kia tū. Nāreira koira noa iho,

223
00:27:19,180 --> 00:27:19,180
ko ngā mea mōhio, ka whaiwhai
haere i ngā mea e kite ana rātou,

224
00:27:19,180 --> 00:27:19,180
kei a rātou te hiahia i te tuatahi,
me ngā pūkenga me te tinana kai mau.

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00:27:19,180 --> 00:27:19,180
So koira tāku, nā Te
Rangihau ahau i whakaako.

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00:27:19,180 --> 00:27:19,180
Ehaki te mea he tino flashy nei te
mahi, engari he take tō ngā ringa katoa.

227
00:27:19,180 --> 00:27:19,180
Koira tāku i whāngai ki ngā mea kua
haramai ki au, ngā mea kua kite ai au,

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00:27:19,180 --> 00:27:20,013
me whakaako au i tēnā, mena ka hiahia.

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00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:55,640
Āe, tokowhitu aku tamariki,

230
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:55,640
ko te mātāmua ko rima tekau ma whā pea
i tēnei tau nāreira i huri au ki te kī

231
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:55,640
atu ki wāku, kua tū koutou katoa,
ki kapa kē, ki te atamira o te motu,

232
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:55,640
me hoki mai ki te kainga ki te whakatū
kapa mō to mātou ake hapū o Ngāti Āpakura

233
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:56,473
nā te mea torutoru noa iho ngā kapa o
Maniapoto nāreira ko te tautoko i te taha

234
00:29:02,410 --> 00:29:02,410
Waikato Maniapoto to mātou iwi.

235
00:29:02,410 --> 00:29:02,410
Ko to mātou marae kei te border
me kī o Waikato me Maniapoto.

236
00:29:02,410 --> 00:29:02,410
Nāreira ko te whakanui ake i ngā
kapa no Maniapoto i te tuatahi.

237
00:29:02,410 --> 00:29:02,410
Me te rauemi whakarauika i nga rauemi
katoa i roto i ngā ringaringa o ngāku

238
00:29:02,410 --> 00:29:02,410
tamariki, mātou ko ngāku
tamariki. Ko tā mātou tino whai,

239
00:29:02,410 --> 00:29:02,670
kia tū i to mātou ake tū, ka waiata i
te āhuatanga waiata e hiahia ana mātou.

240
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I remember Timoti saying to us,

241
00:29:04,191 --> 00:29:08,700
the first regionals that we
performed at coming to say to me,

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please,

243
00:29:09,750 --> 00:29:14,620
don't stop encouraging your
singers to sing as they do.

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00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:20,020
You may not be loud and boisterous
and, you know, thrash the floorboards,

245
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,580
the stage boards, but your
singing was just beautiful.

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00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:29,010
So I'm trying to hold on to that, to
maintain the fact that we can sing.

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00:29:29,750 --> 00:29:34,610
And we need to keep that as our focus
and not so much winning festivals,

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00:29:34,611 --> 00:29:39,010
because we run all over the place and we
have heaps of props and everything else

249
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that, you know, just blows the judges
away. So ko te waiata kē tō mātou whai.

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00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:43,613
Kei te ora tonu, kei te tū
mātou hei tērā atu o ngā

251
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,440
regionals and, uh ka taea e au i tēnei

252
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:02,960
wā, te whakatū kapa katoa
ngā kaihaka nāku ake.

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00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,340
Koira te tokomaha o taku whānau me o
rātou you know, husbands cousin, uh,

254
00:30:06,590 --> 00:30:10,100
boyfriends, girlfriends. Um,
but I do, we do have a, a,

255
00:30:10,220 --> 00:30:14,620
a base of Apakura people and other
people that have always supported us as a

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00:30:14,620 --> 00:30:18,300
whānau that still
perform with us. So yeah,

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00:30:18,350 --> 00:30:22,930
we're pretty lucky we can stage
a performance with just my own

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00:30:23,650 --> 00:30:26,370
children and their children. And the

259
00:30:28,270 --> 00:30:32,690
mokopuna tuarua actually, one of the
oldest will be able to stand next stand.

260
00:30:32,990 --> 00:30:36,130
She'll be 15 already.
So, yeah. And that's,

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00:30:36,220 --> 00:30:41,130
Raana's oldest if she wants to.
Of course. Yeah. They may not,

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00:30:41,860 --> 00:30:44,520
not all my, mokopuna haka.

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00:31:00,190 --> 00:31:04,430
This was a podcast for the ministry
of education. Thank you for listening.

1
00:00:04,650 --> 00:00:05,530
No way.

2
00:00:57,950 --> 00:00:57,950
Nei ra te mihi ki a koe,

3
00:00:57,950 --> 00:00:58,783
kia whakaae mai kia haramai ki
tēnei o ngā uiui mō Te Ao Haka. Uh,

4
00:01:03,580 --> 00:01:06,000
first question here is Laurelle,

5
00:01:06,140 --> 00:01:09,400
how long has haka been
a part of your life?

6
00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,400
My earliest memory of kapa haka, um,

7
00:01:15,700 --> 00:01:19,660
was when I was at primary school. And, um,

8
00:01:20,819 --> 00:01:25,620
a lot of people have inspired me along
the way, but one woman in particular,

9
00:01:27,050 --> 00:01:28,930
um, was Beatrice Yates.

10
00:01:29,510 --> 00:01:32,370
And I remember when I was a
student at Whakarewarewa, for,

11
00:01:33,470 --> 00:01:38,290
she would show up much like
Mary Poppins with her guitar and

12
00:01:38,291 --> 00:01:42,810
she would walk across our field
with her guitar and we all knew

13
00:01:43,950 --> 00:01:48,680
it was kapa haka time. And
we would sing songs with her,

14
00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:54,360
um, like one day a taniwha, which
was my absolute favorite song.

15
00:01:55,700 --> 00:01:58,200
And so kapa haka has been a part of my,

16
00:01:59,460 --> 00:02:01,880
has been a part of my entire life.

17
00:02:05,050 --> 00:02:08,750
So when you were at school in
secondary school, in particular

18
00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:11,790
doing kapa haka,

19
00:02:13,250 --> 00:02:17,030
who were your tutors and who
were your mentors in those days?

20
00:02:18,590 --> 00:02:23,430
Um, my mother's brother was a
kapa haka tutor for many years

21
00:02:23,710 --> 00:02:27,230
in. He was inspirational
to my sister and I,

22
00:02:28,130 --> 00:02:31,300
as well as our cousin, our
older cousin Chadwick Manga.

23
00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:36,900
He was a tutor and Turu
Grace who actually comes,

24
00:02:38,300 --> 00:02:42,460
uh, from Ōtaki. So they were our
tutors. Uh, we also had Aunty

25
00:02:44,060 --> 00:02:46,820
Chrisy, Chrissy Papuni, who was a tutor.

26
00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:49,180
Aunty Julie

27
00:02:51,260 --> 00:02:55,190
Hahunga was a tutor while
I was at John Paul College.

28
00:02:55,940 --> 00:03:00,000
Awesome. Now you spoke about your
sister, so you are a mahanga,

29
00:03:00,300 --> 00:03:02,760
what's it like being a twin in Te Ao Haka?

30
00:03:05,260 --> 00:03:10,160
Having my twin sister means
that I'm never alone and I am

31
00:03:10,900 --> 00:03:12,760
who I am because of her.

32
00:03:14,020 --> 00:03:17,120
She gives me the strength
that I need to stand,

33
00:03:17,650 --> 00:03:22,470
especially on a Matatini stage
it's her that I draw my strength

34
00:03:22,471 --> 00:03:25,950
from to perform, to lead my team.

35
00:03:27,740 --> 00:03:30,919
So speaking about
performing while at school,

36
00:03:31,220 --> 00:03:34,240
how old were you when you
first took to a senior stage?

37
00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,910
Uh, my first experience, um,

38
00:03:40,730 --> 00:03:45,230
was in 1993 with Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao

39
00:03:46,810 --> 00:03:51,530
regionals. Um, was my
very first experience.

40
00:03:51,570 --> 00:03:52,570
I was 14 years old.

41
00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:54,953
So

42
00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:01,020
Senior kapa haka even coming
through in a senior kapa

43
00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,340
haka realm, did

44
00:04:04,941 --> 00:04:07,220
you have idols that you looked
up to in Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao.

45
00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:10,713
As a little girl?

46
00:04:10,900 --> 00:04:15,540
I used to attend practices
with my mum in 1986,

47
00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,220
and I remember sitting in our whare kai,

48
00:04:20,529 --> 00:04:25,410
looking up at all of my
aunties, my nannies, and, um,

49
00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:31,740
my uncles and my koro.
And I used to think, man,

50
00:04:31,900 --> 00:04:34,020
I cannot wait for the day.

51
00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,420
I'm going to stand for
my kapa for my hapū.

52
00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,170
So I wanna, I talk about discipline here.

53
00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:48,730
What are some of the key learnings that
you took away from your nannies and

54
00:04:48,731 --> 00:04:51,250
your koros and your aunties?

55
00:04:53,130 --> 00:04:57,170
Uh, definitely commitment and
just commitment was definitely,

56
00:04:58,110 --> 00:05:00,010
um, something that,

57
00:05:01,700 --> 00:05:04,980
that I pride myself on.
If I commit to something,

58
00:05:05,410 --> 00:05:09,220
then I'm there 110%. Um,

59
00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,860
so commitment definitely
has played a key role in me

60
00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,860
and my journey along the way. So I'm,

61
00:05:17,210 --> 00:05:20,060
I've been absolutely committed to my team,

62
00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,650
but not just my team. It
means that I committed,

63
00:05:23,980 --> 00:05:26,610
especially as a leader to
our paepae and our iwi.

64
00:05:30,970 --> 00:05:33,260
Have you only ever
performed with Tūhourangi?

65
00:05:37,230 --> 00:05:40,910
At senior level and in
terms of Matatini? Yes.

66
00:05:40,911 --> 00:05:42,270
I've only ever performed for
Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao um,

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00:05:44,490 --> 00:05:46,820
I've been actually quite
fortunate to be the leader.

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00:05:46,890 --> 00:05:49,020
I've been the leader since I think

69
00:05:49,940 --> 00:05:52,200
2004,

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00:05:53,910 --> 00:05:56,130
and I've also had, um,

71
00:05:56,410 --> 00:05:59,520
a role as part of our creative team.

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00:06:00,700 --> 00:06:04,580
I took part in super twelves and super 10

73
00:06:05,180 --> 00:06:09,580
competitions with my cousins
and which I've really enjoyed,

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00:06:10,660 --> 00:06:11,279
um,

75
00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:16,220
in terms of senior haka
Tūhourangi is where my heart

76
00:06:16,221 --> 00:06:17,054
is.

77
00:06:18,330 --> 00:06:21,640
Absolutely. Now, back to leadership,

78
00:06:22,270 --> 00:06:25,000
what skills do you need to be a leader,

79
00:06:25,510 --> 00:06:27,800
both on and off stage.

80
00:06:29,589 --> 00:06:32,800
Role modeling, role modeling, what it is

81
00:06:36,180 --> 00:06:41,089
that you want your students to be?

82
00:06:42,820 --> 00:06:44,920
So I, even as a tutor,

83
00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:51,779
I'm always role modeling
what it is to be as a leader,

84
00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:57,300
as well as a tutor by showing
commitment. Commitment is a huge,

85
00:06:57,620 --> 00:07:02,500
is an integral part of
tutorship and leadership.

86
00:07:04,020 --> 00:07:08,160
It means that you need to
be available all the time.

87
00:07:09,700 --> 00:07:12,720
Um, it means that you have to,

88
00:07:13,180 --> 00:07:18,020
it means there's also
other work outside of

89
00:07:18,580 --> 00:07:23,430
practice times that needs to be done. Um,

90
00:07:23,460 --> 00:07:28,110
there's other practices that
need to be had before practice

91
00:07:28,820 --> 00:07:31,470
with your entire group. Um,

92
00:07:32,490 --> 00:07:36,930
but definitely role modeling
the behavior of what it takes

93
00:07:37,710 --> 00:07:41,120
to be an inspiring leader.

94
00:07:43,020 --> 00:07:46,160
Ka pai, what do you like
about being a leader?

95
00:07:48,790 --> 00:07:53,630
I love the challenge. I love the
challenge that it gives that, um,

96
00:07:54,670 --> 00:07:57,790
is laid before you. I like that.

97
00:07:58,390 --> 00:08:00,390
I love that when I'm on the stage

98
00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:04,650
That I can draw

99
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:11,290
and feel inspired by those
around me, my cousins,

100
00:08:12,110 --> 00:08:15,270
by my aunties, by my nieces.

101
00:08:17,370 --> 00:08:21,490
I love that. I inspire them. I
love that. I inspire my students

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00:08:24,450 --> 00:08:27,430
to do more, to develop further.

103
00:08:29,780 --> 00:08:31,110
What don't you like?

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00:08:36,809 --> 00:08:37,642
Don't think there is anything.

105
00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:42,030
Good. That's the answer <laugh>
thinking. You can say that.

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00:08:42,390 --> 00:08:42,790
I don't think there's anything.

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00:08:42,790 --> 00:08:46,470
There isn't anything that
I don't like about leading.

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00:08:48,110 --> 00:08:51,920
What I love most is the
red scarf that I wear,

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00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,400
because it's a representation of
those who have gone before me.

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00:08:58,179 --> 00:09:01,520
It is our legacy that has been
left behind by our kuia who

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inspired haka inside our village,

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the likes of Makareti
Papakura, Rangitiaria um,

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<inaudible> people who have
inspired us who have inspired me.

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Can anyone be a leader?

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Absolutely. Absolutely.

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Think if you find that,

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find someone that inspires you

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and then find what it is
that you're inspired by

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and a, um, just reaching your potential.

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What's the best life lesson you've
learned from the performing arts.

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Discipline. Discipline
on and off the stage.

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Um, perseverance,

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resilience. Those are
definitely things that,

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um, I take with me.

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They have taught me that no matter
how hard things get, you know,

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if you keep practicing and practicing
and practicing, you'll get there.

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So you've, how long have
you been tutoring haka?

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Since

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2001, Two?

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Um,

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my first haka team that I tutored was,

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um, Whare Kotua and Kahurangi

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was their team at Kaitao
Intermeidate and it was,

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um, a national campaign. Mm.

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And then, so following on, and,
um, you're now a teacher at

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Rautāwhiri Rotorua Girls High School.

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You're also the tutor of,

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of a kapa that has taken
out nationals back to back.

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So tell us about that.

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You're a back to back tutor
of a secondary kapa haka team.

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What's that been like?

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The journey has been amazing. Um,

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the students definitely, um,

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have made my journey
much more pleasurable,

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um, over these past few campaigns,

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when I think back to our
very first one at national

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level in 2016, at Te Haaro o te Kahu

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I think about the bond that we had,

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the bond that, that particular team had,

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which came from the trip that we took to

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Portugal and the situation
that we were in there,

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Um, really bonded us as a team.

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Therefore, when we came back,
we were ready for nationals.

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Our students were in tune with our voices.

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Um, so they basically,

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would do whatever we ask them to do. Um,

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and really it was about
taking care of them And it,

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and it wasn't just us. It was
everybody around us, all our supporters

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took care of our kids. And, uh,

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so that really was what

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got us to that next level of performance

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was trusting each other on the
stage, moving together as a team, mm.

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Yeah. ka pai, and then
you took it out again.

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So how hard was it as
a tutor to take out a

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second national title?

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You know, you have to
draw on whatever it takes.

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You've got to take care of your students.

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You've all gotta take
care of each other. Um,

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we went there with a kaupapa

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and our inspiration for
that year was Koro Hōri

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who was a past, um,

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manager of our team who
was laid to rest down in

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Rangitāne.

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So we had a connection there and really,

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it was about us going down
there and telling our story and

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celebrating his time with us.

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That was our purpose.

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Ka pai tērā Laurelle.

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How far do you think kapa haka or
haka will take you in your life?

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Haka has been my life. Um, it is,

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this is what I do. This
is my bread and butter.

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It has done given me experiences

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that, um, beyond the
imagination really, um,

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you know, I've traveled the
world as a young person.

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I began,

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I began traveling at the age
of 15 and I would travel for

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Te Puea and do month long trips to

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Japan

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And it wasn't until I
started teaching that,

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I realized that

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If I'm not there, how are
my students going to learn?

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So that's when I chose this pathway

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of, um, teaching haka in schools

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and in particular at Rotorua Girls.

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So you talk about traveling
overseas, what did that,

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what did you have to do when
you were overseas as a cultural

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ambassador?

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As a cultural ambassador,
traveling overseas, Um,

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meant that one I had to
grow up very quickly. Uh,

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I needed to be where I need,

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I needed to be where it was we
had to be at the right times.

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So I had to learn self-management
I had to work I was constantly

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working. Some days we'd have five shows.

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The next day we may have eight shows
the following day we may have only one

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show. So, um,

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it was about being there
for the right reasons

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to showcase our culture to the world.

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What makes Te Arawa haka

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different to everyone else?

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The beauty and the love
we have for Rotorua,

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our home and our legacy.

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Definitel.y Our people have been
performing for years and years and years

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on a daily basis. And

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we definitely here in Te Arawa.

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Um.

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Love to sing the praises of our Tupuna.

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And I think that's the most beautiful
thing about haka is being able to sing

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those praises of your tupuna and, um.

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Yeah.

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Ka pai tērā.

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How important is being
competitive to performing arts?

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On a competitive platform, there

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is space in there to correct skill Skill

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Because at the end of the
day, that's, what is all about

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is about

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having 40 people on a stage,

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being able to move as one,

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being able to, um,

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inspire my students, to be the very,

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very best that they can be as performers

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has a place in competition.

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How important is winning
in performing arts?

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Winning

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has lots of meanings in performing arts.

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Winning is when you
finally get that action.

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It is it's when you
finally get that action.

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It's when you finally make
that team it's when you finally

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make top nine,

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there are so many meanings behind
the word winning and performing

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arts and haka.

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Ka pai Laurelle. We're
gonna talk about discipline.

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What are some pointers that
you would give to somebody

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around lining up in a straight line?

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That as you move around the stage,

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you can feel the person on your right.
You can feel the person on your left.

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You can also see them without
having to turn your head left

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or right. You can see them
through your peripheral vision.

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And so if you are slightly out of line

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judges, won't mind if you
move forward slightly,

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As long as you can compose yourself,

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hold your head up and move confidently.

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What about levels like hand levels,

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getting all of those levels in sync?
What are some pointers around those?

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Um,

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That's really important to have levels,

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Um, for the pure reason

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that we do want to watch
one show and not 40.

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And so if you are taller,

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then you may need to bring your hands
down slightly. And if you're shorter,

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you may need to come up so
that everybody's working at

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the same level. And it's the same when
you're doing poi and doing taiaha.

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Same thing.

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Can you talk about the poi and
how important it is to follow

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your poi? What does that depict?

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The poi is an extension of the hand.
So it's just like Waiata-ā-ringa,

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you always follow your right
hand. It's the same with the poi,

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um, mōku ake,

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it really shows, um,

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the confidence in a performer when
they're able to follow their poi.

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It tells me as the audience that you

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actually know what you're singing about,

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which is ultimately what we want
to, what we want our audience

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to see.