English

Māori

Greetings to you both. We'll just get straight into it. Who are you and where are you from?

Tēnā kōrua, hei ōku tuākana, e mihi ana. Kia kotahi atu tātou. Ko wai kōrua? Nō hea kōrua?

Chris: 

Greetings sister. I’ll start us off. My name is Chris Potiki Henare and I descend from Ngāti Kahu ki Whangaroa, Ngāti Toro, Te Whānau-a-Apanui, Ngāti Porou and Kāi Tahu. That’s me.

Tēnā koe te tuāhine. Māku e tīmata tēnei wāhanga mā tātou. No reria ko Chris Potiki Henare tōku ingoa he uri ahau nō roto o Ngāti Kahu ki Whangaroa. Nō Ngāti Toro, Te Whānau-a-Āpanui, Ngāti Porou me Kāi tahu. Nō reira koirā tāku.

Sandra: 

Greetings sister. I am Sandra Waitai Henare. I am from Muriwhenua, Northland and Te Arawa.

Kia ora e te tuāhine. Ko Sandra Waitai Henare ahau. Nō Muriwhenua, Te Hiku o te Ika me Te Arawa.

Sandra: 

Kia ora.

Kia ora

Rawinia:

So, we're here today for our Te Ao Haka podcast's, and it's an honor and a privilege to be interviewing you both today as mātanga of Te Ao Haka. So we'll start with, where did you start, what was your first experience in the haka world?

Kei konei tātou i tēnei rangi mō te īpāho o Te Ao Haka, ā, nōku te whiwhi kei konei ahau ki te uiui i a kōrua hei mātanga o Te Ao Haka. Kia tīmata tātou, i tīmata kōrua i hea, ā, he aha ō kōrua wheako tuatahi i te ao haka?

Chris: 

Well, being the gentleman that I am, I'll let my lovely lady go first and share her kōrero.

Nā te mea he tāne ahau, ka waiho mā te wahine e wāhi ngā kōrero.

Sandra:

Ok so, for myself I think my first memory is when I was a really young girl. I was very fortunate to be brought up by my grandparents, my fathers parents, Heni Pere and Te Paea Waitai.

And from a very young age my grandmother used to dress me up in a piupiu and give me pois and stand me up on a table in the lounge, turn the Tui Teka record on and I used to just stand there twirling my poi, swinging my piu, oh, twirling my piupiu swinging my pois around. 

So that for me was probably my first memory of anything to do with haka, was poi and piu piu.

And growing up with my grandparents, they lived in Kaingaroa Forest, I was born in Rotorua. And so being in Rotorua, as you know, is the hub of performing arts. People don't really know this about me, they always just naturally think I'm from the north, but I was actually born in Te Arawa in Rotorua. So yes, memories of my mother's auntie, who performed with Ngāti Rangiwewehi. So I have whānau affiliations to Ngāti Rangiwewehi as well as Tūhourangi Ngati Wāhiao. And growing up as a young person, that was always something that you saw.

There's a picture of me when I was probably about two or three in a Ngāti Rangiwewehi uniform, and from a very young age I always thought, "Oh, man, I'd love to be performing with that team." But, to be honest, to be able to sit and listen to my grandparents singing, traveling from Rotorua, Kaingaroa Forest, home to Te Hāpua to visit, my grandparents always sang in the car, two part harmonies. And it would be like waiata hīmene. And as I got older I became the third part harmony.

But also, when I remember things, I remember my father is a musician, and he was a part of the musos at the Tudor Towers, and I would say they probably were the first Super 12 team. And they used to do cabarets, like hāngī concerts. I used to sit there in the back and watch him play the bass. And his team at that time, it was people like Wetini, Bear Yates,

Nō reira mōku ake, ko taku pūmahara tuatahi i a au e kōhine tonu ana. Nōku te māngari nui i tā ōku kaumātua whakatipu i ahau, ngā mātua o taku pāpā, Heni Pere rāua ko Te Paea Waitai. 

I ahau e tamariki tonu ana, he kaha nō tōku kuia whakarākei i ahau ki te piupiu, ā, ka homai ētahi poi me te whakatū i ahau ki runga i te tēpu, nā, ka whakakāngia te rekoata Tui Teka me taku piu haere i taku poi me taku piupiu. 

Koirā, ki ahau, taku pūmahara tuatahi o te haka, ko te poi me te piu piu.

I tipu ake ahau i te taha o ōku kaumātua, i Kaingaroa Forest, i whānau mai ahau i Rotorua. Ko Rotorua pea te pā o ngā mahi a Rēhia. Te nuinga ka whakaaro nō Te Tai Tokerau tūturu ahau engari i whānau mai ahau i Te Arawa, i Rotorua. He nui aku mahara mō te whaea kēkē o taku māmā, i tū ia me Ngāti Rangiwewehi. He hononga ōku ki a Ngāti Rangiwewehi me Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao. I tō tamarikitanga, ka rite tonu te kitea o te kapa haka.

Tērā tētahi whakaahua ōku, e rua, toru tau pea taku pakeke, i rō kākahu Ngāti Rangiwewehi, ā, i a au e tipu ana, i whakaaro ahau “Kei te pīrangi tū ahau mō tēnei tīma.” I rawe ki a au te noho me te whakarongo ki aku kaumātua e waiata ana, i ō mātou haerenga i Rotorua, i Kaingaroa Forest, ki Te Hāpua, he reo niko wāhanga rua. Me te aha he waiata hīmene. Ka tipu ake ahau, ko au te wāhanga tuatoru.

Waihoki, ka hoki ngā mahara ki taku pāpā, he ringapuoro ia, he mema ia o ngā kaiwaiata i te Tudor Towers, hei tāna, ko rātou tētahi o ngā tīma Super 12 tuatahi. I waiata rātou i ngā konohete pēnei i ngā konohete hāngī. Ka noho ahau ki muri me te mātaki i a ia e whakatangi ana i te kitā panguru. Me tana tīma, ko te momo pēnei i a Wetini me Bear Yates.

Rawinia: 

Yep, wow.

Hika mā.

Sandra: 

Yeah, it was a little small group and they did cabaret shows. Dad played the bass or the drums while the pois were twirling and the rākau were going. So from a very young age I'd seen a lot, I'd heard a lot. Music was always part of our family, waiata, singing. So I guess that's where it began for me, from a very young age, standing on my grandparents' coffee table, swinging my piupiu, twirling my pois, listening to my grandparents singing part harmony in the car, watching my aunty performing in cultural groups like Ngāti Rangiwewehi, watching my father performing at the Tudor Towers in a Super 12 Team at that time. So that's where it began for me, that's where I was introduced to the tools of hakas.

Āe, he rōpū iti ka tū i ngā konohete. Ko tā taku pāpā he whakatangi i te kitā panguru, i te pahū rānei, ā, ka rere ko ngā poi me ngā rākau. He nui ngā āhuatanga i kitea, i rangona hoki i taku tamarikitanga. He whānau puoro mātou, ka kaha waiata i ngā wā katoa. I tīmata i reira mōku, i taku tamarikitanga, ka tū i runga i te tēpu a ōku kaumātua me te piu i te poi, me te whakarongo ki aku kaumātua e waiata ana i roto i te waka, te mātaki hoki i taku whaea kēkē i roto i ngā rōpū ahurea pēnei i a Ngāti Rangiwewehi, te mātaki i taku pāpā i Tudor Towers ki tētahi kapa Super 12. I tīmata i reira, koinā taku kuhutanga atu ki ngā āhuatanga o te ao haka.

Rawinia: 

Wow.

Mīharo.

Sandra: 

Take it away.

Kei a koe.

Chris: 

Ka pai. My journey was probably a lot different. When I was younger I spent a lot of time on the coast. I spent a lot of time with my mum's whānau down at Raukokore, Te Whānau-a-Apanui. So from a young age I was always going there for reunions or hui mate. So, my experience with kapa haka was actually running around the marae. And as children, we knew where we could and we couldn't go. So while all the mihimihis, and all the kaumātua and kuia were doing the waiata, mōteatea and stuff, we knew we weren't allowed to be running around on the marae ātea, so were always hanging around the back and listening to the waiata. So those are my earliest memories.

And also, I suppose, one of the most prominent memories is at a hui mate, how a kuia would hotuhotu ērā mahi tangi, ērā tikanga ka āhua ngaro i ēnei rā. But those are memories that I always still hold today because I could feel the wairua, the ihi. But as a young child, I was actually quite scared, quite mataku of all that sort of stuff. So those are all the things that I remember in and around the marae at Raukokore. And in the evenings, mainly on the last night, whānau, or the uncles mainly, would get up and do a haka for the whānau. I was just in awe of some of my pāpās back then, like pāpā Te Kepa, who's my nana's-

Ka pai. He rerekē taku ara. Nōku e tamariki ana, he kaha taku haere ki te Tairāwhiti. He rite tonu taku haere ki te whānau o taku māmā i Raukōkore, i Te Whānau-a-Apanui. I taku tamarikitanga he nui ngā hui ora me ngā hui mate i reira. Ko aku wheako kapa haka i ahu mai i taku omaoma haere i te marae. I mōhio mātou, ngā tamariki, ki ngā rohenga o te marae. Mōhio nei mātou i te wā o ngā mihimihi me ngā mōteatea, kāore te marae ātea i wātea, nō reira ka noho mātou ki muri, ka whakarongo ki ngā waiata. Koinā ngā maharatanga tōmua.

Me te aha, i ngā hui mate ka hotuhotu ngā kuia, ērā mahi tangi, ērā tikanga ka āhua ngaro i ēnei rā. Koinā ngā maharatanga i titikaha ki te ngākau, i rongo ahau i te wairua me te ihi. Nōku e tamariki ana, i āhua mataku ahau i ērā āhuatanga. Koinā ngā āhuatanga e mahara nei ahau i ngā marae i Raukokore. I ngā ahiahi, i te nuinga o te wā i ngā pō whakamutunga, ka tū te whānau, ngā matua kēkē rānei, ki te haka ki te whānau. Wehi ana ahau i ētahi o aku pāpā, pēnei i a pāpā Te Kepa.

Rawinia:

Kepa Sterling.

Kepa Stirling.

Chris: 

Kepa Sterling. So I'm from the Sterling whānau myself, and so watching my grand uncles like pāpā Kepa. And they would sometimes get up, because as you know on the coast, the wharekais would have a little stage set up so that they can entertain or for different types of huis. So I remember vividly watching my uncles up there, and my grand uncles, my pāpās up there going through the haka. But the thing that I always remember was that at times it was actually quite funny, because they'd be laughing amongst themselves because sometimes they'd go the wrong way, or doing the wrong actions and all the aunties and the nannies would be laughing. And then all of a sudden they'd switch and it'd be real serious.

And so for me, it started to give me that sense of identity, cultural identity, of who I was and where I belonged.

So I actually spent quite a lot of time down Te Whānau-a-Apanui when I was younger. And I remember pāpā Te Kepa taking me and my younger brother around different places down to Te Whānau-a-Apanui and we'd have to go and clean the urupā there at Raukokore and stuff. So actually, my grounding was actually down the coast.

On my father's side, from Tai Tokerau, we would come home on the very rare occasions for hui mate and stuff like that, but then it was a different setting again. So my first memories was down in Te Whānau-a-Apanui.

When I was started to get a bit older, about nine or 10, we moved to Christchurch. And so when I was 10 years old, I remember being taken to what was called, not then, the Aotearoa Māori Traditional Performing Arts Festival. I think it was that, it might've still been the Polynesian festival. 1986, Christchurch at QE II Park. So went along there and my mum took me to the nationals for the kapa haka, and it just opened my eyes to my own sense of cultural belonging. So I was there when I watched club that year, Te Waka Huia, as a young lad, and even though I couldn't understand everything that was going on on the stage, I could feel the ihi, I could feel the wairua.

I felt the power of the performance, and that was always etched in my mind at that young age. And so for me, I had a sense of maybe one day I would be standing on that stage, maybe one day I would be blessed to be part of what I had just witnessed. And so that was just one stepping stone along my journey as a young lad.

Leaving Christchurch, we moved back to Manurewa, and so it was there-

Āe. He Stirling ahau, ā, i mātaki ahau i aku kaumātua pēnei i a pāpā Kepa. Ka tū noa iho rātou, ā, i ētahi o ngā wharekai he atamira iti, nō reira ka tū rātou ki te whakangahau atu i ngā momo hui maha. Mahara pai ahau ki taku mātaki i ōku pāpā i runga i te atamira e haka ana. Ko tāku e mahara pai nei ko te taha ngahau o ērā mahi, i ōna wā ka hē ngā ringa, kātahi ka pakaru mai te kata a ngā kuia. Mea rawa ake ka huri, ka ōkawa.

 I reira tipu ake ai te taha tuakiri, tuakiri  ā-ahurea, i mōhio ahau he Māori ahau, nō hea hoki ahau.

He nui aku haerenga ki Te Whānau-a-Apanui nōku e tamariki ana. Nā pāpā Kepa māua ko taku teina i hari ki ngā wāhi rerekē i Te Whānau-a-Apanui ki te whakapai i ngā urupā i Raukokore. I whai tūāpapa ahau i te Tairāwhiti.

I te taha o taku pāpā, nō te Tai Tokerau ahau, ā, i ōna wā ka hoki mai mātou mō ngā hui mate me ērā momo hui, ka mutu, he rerekē anō. Ko aku maharatanga tōmua i Te Whānau-a-Apanui.

Ka tipu ake ahau, ka 9, 10 tau pea taku pakeke, ka hūnuku mātou ki Ōtautahi. Ka tekau tau taku pakeke, ka haere ahau ki te Aotearoa Māori Traditional Performing Arts Festival. Koinā te ingoa ki taku mōhio, ko te Polynesian Festival rānei. I te tau 1986, i te QE II Park i Ōtautahi. I haere tahi māua ko taku māmā ki te whakataetae kapa haka ā-motu, ā, i hura ōku kanohi ki taku ahurea. I mātaki ahau i a Waka Huia i tērā tau, ā, ahakoa kāore ahau i mōhio ki tā rātou i mahi ai, i rongo ahau i te ihi me te wairua o ngā mahi, ka mutu, titikaha ana ki taku hinengaro. 

Mōku ake, i whakaaro ahau, hei tētahi rā, ko au tērā ka tū i runga i tērā atamira. He ara tērā i taku huarahi ao haka.

Ka wehe i Ōtautahi, ka hoki ki Manurewa, i reira . .

Rawinia: 

South Auckland. Manurewa's South Auckland.

Te tonga o Tāmaki, Manurewa.

Chris: 

South Auckland, Rewa hard, where I was lucky enough to meet Hori Pomana, an awesome kaiako who helped to instill really good values. And he sent me on my very first taiaha wānanga at, I think I was 12 and a half. I knew nothing about where I was going or what I was doing, but all we knew was if we were going somewhere for two weeks and it was a taiaha wānanga being run by Irirangi Tiakiawa. And at that time, us young boys, we didn't know much about te ao Māori space in terms of who were the prominent rangatira in that space of mahi.

But I always reflect back to those two weeks as a young boy and what we learnt and some really awesome things we learned, and the friends that I met there. Some one's like Tamihana Ngaropo, ones like Te Reweti, Mete, they were all there, and so we made that connection as young lads. So those are my experiences from a young age. So koirā.

Āe, te tonga o Tāmaki Makaurau, Manurewa ki te manawa, i reira tūtaki ai ahau ki a Hori Pomana, he kaiako pai i whakatō i ētahi uara ki roto i a au. Nāna ahau i tuku ki taku wānanga taiaha tuatahi, 12 tau noa iho taku pakeke. Kāore ahau i paku mōhio he aha te aha, i mōhio noa iho ahau i te haere ahau ki tētahi wānanga taiaha e whakahaerehia ana e Irirangi Tiakiawa. I taua wā, kāore mātou, ngā tama, i mōhio ki te whānuitanga o te ao Māori i te āhua ki ngā tohunga i roto i aua mahi.

Ka hoki aku mahara i ngā wā katoa ki ērā wiki e rua, ngā āhuatanga i ākona, ngā hononga i hua ake. Te hunga pēnei i a Tamihana Ngaropo, Te Reweti me Mete, i tino hono mātou. Koinā aku wheako i taku taitamarikitanga.

Rawinia: 

Wow, that's two very different stories. But what we did get from that is that both of you felt it, you felt that connection and the feeling of that identity and wairua. Awesome, ka pai. So you got into it, you knew you loved it, you got into it, then what? Get into the real stuff.

E rua ērā kōrero mutunga kē mai o te rerekē. Heoi anō, i rongo kōrua tahi i te wairua me te hononga ki te tuakiritanga. Nō reira ka kuhu atu koe ki te ao nei, ka rata hoki, kātahi ka aha? 

Homai ngā kōrero.

Sandra: 

So still in the younger ages, so from Rotorua from the age of 12, we moved to Tāmaki, to Auckland, and I was ready to venture to college at that stage. So, as part of our family legacy I guess, my grandmother went to Queen Victoria or Kuīni Wikitōria, so I aspired to do the same thing. So my high school years was at Queen Vic, but prior to getting there, as a family, we'd always been those ones that had to be out the front and entertain. We always did it together.

Nōku e tamariki tonu ana, 12 tau taku pakeke, ka hūnuku ahau i Rotorua ki Tāmaki Makaurau. He whānau Kuīni Wikitōria mātou nō reira i whai ahau i tērā tauira. Nō reira i haere ahau ki Kuīni Wikitōria mō te katoa o ngā tau kura tuarua, heoi anō i mua i tērā, he whānau kaha mātou ki te whakangahau. I mahi ā-whānau mātou.

Rawinia: 

Awesome.

Rawe.

Sandra: 

My siblings, my dad's sister's children, my cousins, we always grouped together, and our job was to always sing the waiata. It didn't matter where, we had to. They're here.

I waiata tahi mātou ko taku whānau me aku whanaunga. Ahakoa haere ki hea

Chris: 

The Waitais are here.

Kei konei ngā Waitai.     

Sandra: 

They'll sing the song, they'll do the waiata. So from a very young age, we always stuck together as a whānau.

Mā rātou ngā waiata. I piri tata te whānau nō taku tamarikitanga.

Rawinia: 

Beautiful.

Ātaahua.

Sandra: 

In Tāmaki, the very first group we joined was Te Wairere o Tāmaki. Now the main tutor, or the leader was Uncle Nick Adams. Yeah, uncle Nick Adams. He was the man there and he tutored the older kids. We were youngish, and Aunty Hilda, which is cousin Thomas' mum, she was the junior tutor. So every weekend we'd spend with Aunty Hilda and our cuzzies in Auckland, training. And for us, it was about being together, having fun. Because that's all you remember when you were younger. It's just having fun, being together. Yes, we had to do waiata. Yes, we had to swing pois, and dress up and put moko on, because that was all exciting back then. But I guess the essence for us was just being together, having that fun. And kapa haka did that for us, kept us together.

So, that was Te Wairere o Tāmaki. From there, like I said, I ended up at Queen Victoria for a couple of years, and that was that was a big change

Ko Te Wairere o Tāmaki te rōpū tuatahi i whai wāhi ai mātou i Tāmaki. Ko Uncle Nick Adams te kaiako matua. Koia te tangata i reira, nāna ngā tamariki pakeke i whakaako. He teina tonu mātou i taua wā, nā Aunty Hilda, te māmā o tō mātou whanaunga, o Thomas, mātou i whakaako. I haere mātou ki a Auntie Hilda me ngā whanaunga i ia mutunga wiki ki te parakatihi. Ko te ngahau te mea nui ki a mātou. Koinā noa iho ngā maharatanga o aua rā. He ngahau te nohotahi. I waiata mātou i ngā wā katoa. I piu i te poi me te mau i ngā kākahu tika, he rawe ērā mahi i aua wā. Ko te mea nui ki a mātou, ko te noho tahi me te ngahau tahi. Nā te kapa haka i tutuki ai ērā āhuatanga.

Ko Te Wairere o Tāmaki tērā. I reira i tae atu ai ahau ki Kuīni Wikitōria, me te aha, he rerekē tērā.

Rawinia: 

In terms of haka?

Ā-haka nei?

Sandra: 

In terms of haka and just life in general. Being at boarding school, you learnt different values, different rules, and I still hold onto those values to this day. So, in comparison, when you're coming from a whānau team you can get away with quite a bit. But when you went to a place like Queen Vic, wow. All girls school. The things that stand out in my mind at the moment is grace, the gracefulness, the beauty of a young woman.

Ā-haka nei, ā-noho nei hoki. He rerekē ngā uara me ngā ture i te kura noho, he uara e whāia tonutia ana e au i ēnei rā. Hei whakataurite, i roto i te tīma whānau, māmā noa iho te whakangā. Engari anō ngā kura pēnei i a Kuīni Wikitōria. He kura kōtiro. Me tau, me rerehua, me whakaatu i te ātaahua o te wahine.

Chris: 

But then you had strong wāhine leaders like Whaea Sylvia Clarke.

He tauira wahine Māori kounga hoki pēnei i a Whaea Sylvia Clarke.

Sandra: 

Oh, absolutely.

Whaea Sylvia, she was the matron of all matrons. Staunch, but always proud. Her values, like I say, we still hold onto those to this day. Just being disciplined, being disciplined in what you do. In hakas there was no real room for individuality, you did everything together. The same takahia, the same wiri.

Tika tonu.

Ko Whaea Sylvia te whaea o ngā whaea. He taikaha engari he māia. Kei a au tonu ngā uara nāna i whakatō. Te whakaraupapa i roto i ngā mahi. I te ao haka, he iti te wāhi ki te taha takitahi, me takitini kē. Me ōrite te takahi me te wiri.

Chris: 

Freestyle.

Poka noa.

Sandra: 

Yeah, there was no real freestyle, everything was like, no, beautiful, graceful, real mana wahine.

Āe, kāore he mahi poka noa, he ātaahua, he tau ngā mahi katoa, he āhuatanga mana wahine.

Rawinia: 

And they were, and you fellas were.

Ka mutu i pērā koutou.

Sandra: 

Yeah, real mana wahine. So, like I said, from whānau teachings where it's all about family, singing as a family, to something that's a little bit more structured, something that has a little bit more, like a real young woman's presence, it was totally different. Yeah, very graceful. That's the word that really sticks out for me about Kuīni Wikitōria, is the gracefulness of the hakas.

Āe, mana wahine. He rerekē te whakawhiti i ngā akoranga ā-whānau, te waiata ā-whānau ki tētahi āhuatanga āhua ōkawa ake, ka whai tikanga, ka whai i te tū a te wahine. He tau te tū. Ko te tau o te tū te āhuatanga i ākona i Kuīni Wikitōria.

Rawinia: 

Absolutely, wow.

E mea ana koe. Mīharo.

Sandra: 

And then moving on. So, as you know, when you go to Queen Vic, you get to sixth form, seventh form. There was no seventh form in my time, so I tried to go to Auckland Girls' Grammar, didn't last. It was too big, too many people, but I must say, I did do the Poly Fest with the girls. I ended up playing the guitar for the Auckland Girls' Grammar rōpū.

Haere tonu. I Kuīni Wikitōria, kāore he tau tekau mā toru. I ngana ahau ki te haere ki Auckland Girls’ Grammar, engari auare ake, kāore i noho roa. He nui rawa, he tokomaha rawa ngā tāngata, engari i tū ahau i te Polyfest. Ko au te kairakuraku mā te rōpū o Auckland Girls’  Grammar.

Chris: 

1989? What year was that?

1989? Tēhea tau?

Rawina: 

Wow.

Mīharo.

Sandra: 

I don't even know.

Kāore ahau i te mōhio.

Chris: 

Oh, where was the Poly Fest?

I hea te Polyfest?

Sandra: 

What's the one after Ngā Tapuwae?

He aha te mea i muri mai i a Ngā Tapuwae?

Chris: 

Ngā Tapuwae again.

Ko Ngā Tapuwae anō.

Sandra: 

I think it was. I can't remember.

Ko tērā pea. E aua hoki.

Chris: 

Because they held it twice.

Nā rātou te kaupapa i manaaki mō ngā tau e rua.

Sandra: 

Yeah, I can't remember. But yeah, I was just the guitarist then. And so from there went to James Cook High School. That was totally different again, yeah.

E aua hoki. Ko au te kairakuraku i taua wā. Atu i reira ka peka atu ahau ki James Cook high School. He rerekē anō tērā.

Rawina: 

That's South Auckland, Manurewa?

Te tonga o Tāmaki, Manurewa?

Sandra: 

South Auckland, Manurewa, yeah. So we lived in Manurewa for quite a bit. Yeah, so James Cook High School, Te Kapunga, Hori Pomana. For myself, I didn't want to involve myself with the kapa haka rōpū. I just thought, "Oh, I'll just go and sit-"

Āe, te tonga o Tāmaki, Manurewa. I noho mātou ki Manurewa mō tētahi wā roa. Āe, nō reira James Cook High School, Te Kapunga, Hori Pomana. Kāore ahau i pīrangi hono atu ki tētahi kapa haka. I whakaaro ahau, “Ka haere noa iho ahau ki te noho .”

Chris: 

We were a bit beneath you, were we?

I raro mātou i tō taumata nē?

Sandra: 

No, nothing like that, nothing like that. I just thought to myself, no, I want to just concentrate, because it was my last year of kura, concentrate on finding my career, finding what's out there for me.

E hē, i te aro kē ahau ki taku huarahi i muri i te kura i te mea koirā taku tau whakamutunga.

Chris: 

With no distractions, eh?

Kia kaua koe e kōtiti?

Sandra: 

With no distractions.

Āe, kia kaua e kōtiti.

Rawinia: 

Nek minnit.

Mea rawa ake.

Sandra: 

Yeah, that's right. But with James Cook, because it's such a large school, they had two rōpū, a competitive rōpū and a non-competitive rōpū. I love being around the whare and the marae, so I always just sat out there and I listened to the teams going for it. And Chris, at the time, had just finished kura and he was tutoring the competitive team. And my mates were in the non-competitive team but they didn't have a guitarist, so they said, "Oh, you can play the guitar." I said, "Yeah, I can play the guitar." So I ended up being the guitarist for the non-competitive team. And then, because both teams had to noho together, met this fella. Yeah. You might like to carry on the story there, love.

Āe. Heoi anō i James Cook High School, e rua ngā rōpu nā te nui, he rōpū whakataetae me tētahi rōpū ngahau. He rawe ki a au te noho i ngā marae, ko tāku he whakarongo ki ngā tīma e mahi ana i ā rātou mahi. Kātahi anō a Chris ka wehe i te kura, ko ia tētahi o ngā kaiako o te kapa whakataetae. I roto ōku hoa i te tīma ngahau me te aha kāore he kairakuraku i te tīma, ka tahuri mai ōku hoa ki a au me te kī “He kairakuraku koe nē.” Tere tonu taku kī “āe.” Koirā i tū ai ahau hei kairakuraku mō te tīma whakangahau. Nā te mea i noho tahi ngā tīma e rua, ka tūtaki ahau ki tēnei tangata. Tēnā, kei a koe ināianei e te tau.

Chris: 

Yeah. Do I start from when you're chasing me around everywhere?

Me tīmata ki tō whai haere i a au?

Sandra: 

You wish.

Ō roke.

Chris: 

So my journey was probably a little bit different. Growing up in South Auckland, Manurewa, for me as a young Māori boy, my thing was I was looking for this cultural sense of belonging, which I hadn't fully had. And so when I went to high school and I met Hori Pomana, and then I met the rest of the third formers, or the turds that we were called, the turd formers back then. And I just found a common interest amongst some of the people that I'd met. And they were talking about, "Hey bro, come and join the Māori group," they called it. "Come and join the Māori cultural group." I said, "Oh yeah, that sounds really cool. I'm interested as."

And so went to along, met Hori. He was quite intimidating because he had a strong presence. And so became part of the kapa haka group. First time I'd ever actually been part of a kapa haka group, and I did my first Poly Fest. It was at Hato Petera. They had the stage right outside, built off of the wharenui. And I remember being so nervous. I remember also my seniors, my first tā moko that I had received and I was feeling so proud, like this is the moment. So, lie down over here, I'm going to give you a moko. And I remember having a look in the mirror and my eyes were just all coloured and black. I must have been the first panda eyes, 1988.

Yeah, so that was my very first performance, and it just started a whole chain reaction of wanting to do more performances. And the good thing with Hori Pomana, is he was a very tikanga orientated man. Hui mate, if someone passed away, we'd go. And not only would we go, we'd go, we'd be fully dressed in piupiu and everything, and we'd be out there and we'd be performing. Then after that, we'd be helping out in the kitchen.

I āhua rerekē taku ara. i te whai ahau i taku hononga ki taku ahurea, nā te mea i tipu ake ahau i te tonga o Tāmaki, i Manurewa, ā, kāore anō ahau kia kite i taua hononga rā. Ka tae atu ahau ki te kura, ka tūtaki ki a Hori Pomana me ngā tau iwa. I pērā mātou katoa. I mea mai rātou “E hoa, haramai ki tō mātou rōpū Māori,” koinā te ingoa e ai ki a rātou. I kī ahau “Āe, hīkaka ana.”

Ka haere ahau, ka tūtaki ki a Hori. He āhua whakamatakutanga ia i taua wā, nā tana āhua. Ka whai wāhi ahau ki te rōpū. Koinā taku kapa tuatahi, ā, i tū ahau i te Polyfest. I Hato Petera te kaupapa rā. I tū te atamira i waho i te wharenui. Māharahara nui ahau i taua wā. Kei te mahara hoki ahau ki taku tū pakeke tuatahi, me taku whiwhi moko, i whakahīhī ahau. Mea mai tētahi, takoto i konei, māku tō moko. I titiro ahau ki te mira, ā, i pango katoa ōku whatu. Ko au pea te whatu panda tuatahi i te tau 1988.

Koinā taku tū tuatahi, ā, i hīkaka ahau ki te haere tonu. Ko te painga o Hori Pomana, ko tana whai i ngā tikanga. Ka mate tētahi, ka haere mātou. Ehara i te mea ka haere noa, engari ka mau piupiu, ka haere ki te haka. Mutu ana ērā mahi, ka kotahi atu ki te kāuta.

Rawinia:

Wow.

Rawe.

Chris: 

He'd always take us to Koroneihana every year, and Poly Fest, and we were always performing, we were always doing shows. And the hard case thing about Hori was he would compose and teach us a bracket that would be like an hour and 20 minutes long with absolutely no breaks, like everything just goes rolling straight into each other, everything. And I was talking about tītī tōrea, tī rākau, haka.

Ka haere hoki mātou ki te Koroneihana i ia tau me te Polyfest, he nui ngā whakaaturanga, he nui ngā tū. 

Ko te mea hātakēhi e pā ana ki a Hori, ko tana whakaako mai i a mātou, he kotahi hāora neke atu te roa o ngā mahi, kāore he whakatā. 

He tītī tōrea, he tī rākau, he haka hoki.

Rawinia:

Oh, wow.

Oh, hika mā.

Chris: 

Yeah, it was a whole performance bracket. But we loved it. I mean, we may not have been the greatest team, but we loved what we did, we were proud of what we did and he instilled that pride in us. And so we'd come away from a Poly Fest. We wouldn't come in the top rankings, but every time we came off he always showed great pride and he always acknowledged us that we tried our best, and if you give your best then he would always be proud. So those are some really good things that I learned from Hori during the high school years.

To be so into kapa haka in that time was not very popular amongst Māori that were at James Cook High School. The student numbers were around about 1800 students. I remember when I was there and when I was in kapa haka, we'd be lucky if we've got five to 10 boys in the kapa haka, because there was this stigma that, "Oh, it's not cool to be in the Māori cultural group." And so for us that were part of it, we always looked at like, "Oh, you Māori's over there." And that's how we were looked at. But for me and my colleagues, we just stuck staunch to what we believed was right.

And so in those times, our Māori unit was a couple of old classrooms that had been moved from somewhere.

I whai wāhi atu ngā mea katoa. Engari i pai ki a mātou. Ehara pea mātou i te tīma kounga, engari i rawe ki a mātou ngā mahi, ka mutu, nāna te māia i whakatō i roto i a mātou. Whakahīhī ana ia i ā mātou tū i ngā Polyfest, ahakoa kāore mātou i whai tūranga, i whakahīhī tonu ia i ā mātou mahi. Koinā ngā āhuatanga pai i ākona e au i a Hori nōku i te kura. 

Kāore te nuinga o ngā Māori i James Cook High Sschool i tino ngākaunui ki ngā mahi kapa haka i taua wā. Tōna 1800 ngā tauira. He wairua kawa e hāngai ana ki te kapa haka nōku i reira, waimarie mēnā e 10 ngā tama ka uru i te mea katoa ngā tāngata i whakaaro “Kāore i te pai te uru atu ki te rōpū ahurea Māori.” Mō mātou i roto i te kapa, i tū ngā ihu o ērā atu ki a mātou. Heoi anō i tū mārō mātou ko ōku hoa ki tā mātou i whakapono ai. 

I aua wā ko te wāhanga Māori he akomanga tawhito nō wāhi kē atu. 

Rawinia:

Prefabs.

He whare hanga noa.

Chris:

It was a couple of prefabs that were just put together, it was the basic sort of thing. We never had much, but we had heaps of aroha for the kaupapa of what was happening. So I was lucky to do my training under Hori for a couple of years, and then along came another guy, David Tamanui. 

Āe, he whare hanga noa. Kāore mātou i whai rawa engari he nui te aroha ki te kaupapa. Nō reira i waimarie ahau i taku noho i raro i ngā rekereke o Hori mō ētahi tau, kātahi ka tae mai a David Tamanui. 

Rawinia:

Oh, David Tamanui?

David Tamanui?

Chris: 

Rawiri Tamanui. So he came along and he brought with him one of his good friends, who I then got to know as Uncle Bussy. 

Āe, Rawiri Tamanui. Nāna i tō mai tana hoa, a Uncle Bussy. 

Rawinia:

Ah.

Ah.

Chris: 

So, they came along, and they actually came along with their new lingo, which was like, everything was, "Chur doi, chur doi." They were saying all this stuff. So they bought that in. But through Dave, I got to meet Uncle Bussy. And of course with Uncle Bussy came Aunty Aroha. So slowly got to meet all these prominent people who were in the kapa haka space. 

I haere mai rāua me ā rāua kīanga rerekē, katoa ngā kōrero i pēnei, Chur doi, chur doi.” Koinā ā rāua kōrero. Nā rāua ērā kōrero i hari mai. Mā roto mai i a Dave i tūtaki ai ahau ki a Uncle Bussy. I tae mai a Aunty Aroha i te taha o Uncle Bussy. Nāwai rā ka tūtaki ahau ki ēnei mātanga o te ao kapa haka. 

Rawinia:

Did you know that at the time before you met them? 

I mōhio koe ki a rātou i mua i tō tūtaki atu? 

Chris: 

No, I never knew that at the time. For me, there was just Auntie Aroha, Uncle Bussy, Uncle Greg Motu would come along, and we would wānanga up at Kokiri ki Maungarei and that's where I met kaumatua Whio Motu. So he taught me my very first kōrero, and he showed me how to use a tewha. So I was lucky that Dave was able to make those contacts and bring people to help with my learning. When I was in my last year of school, I was really lucky that he bought in Howie Junior. 

Kāo, kaua i taua wā. I mōhio noa iho ahau ki a Auntie Aroha me Uncle Bussy, ā, ka peka mai Uncle Greg Motu, ka wānanga mātou i Kokiri ki Maungarei, i reira tūtaki ai ahau ki a Whio Motu. Nāna ahau i whakaako ki taku kōrero tuatahi me te whiu i te tewha. Waimarie ahau i ērā hononga o Dave. I taku tau whakamutunga, waimarie ahau i tō mai ia i a Howie Junior. 

Rawinia:

Wow.

Mīharo.

Chris: 

So, he came to JC, and he taught me how to use the toki. And so, the toki that I actually used at Poly Fest was his father's toki, which was Sir Howie's toki. So, I got to use that at a Poly Fest. 

Haramai ia ki JC me te whakaako i a au ki te karawhiu i te toki. I whakamahi ahau i te toki a tana pāpā, a Sir Howie, i te Polyfest. 

Rawinia:

Did you even know the significance of that at the time? 

I mōhio koe ki te hirahiratanga i taua wā? 

Chris: 

I sort of knew the significance, but not until I got older, then I realized, "Oh my God. Man, I'm so lucky to have spent time with not only Howie Junior, but also just to be able to hold that taonga as well. 

So those are some of my awesome memories of coming into training under Dave Tamanui. He encouraged me to sing, he encouraged me to lead haka. So those were really good things. And then when I left school, I came back to support the group, and when I came back there was some new faces, and I noticed some pretty eyes looking over at me. Nah, but we were actually friends, we just became really good friends because we had a common interest in kapa haka. So, we were friends for quite a while and things sort of happened after that. 

Tōna mōhio nei, heoi anō ka pakeke ahau, ka mōhio “Waimarie ahau ki te noho tahi ki a Howie Junior me te mau i taua toki rā.” 

Koinā ētahi o ngā maharatanga pai o taku noho i raro i ngā rekereke o Dave Tamanui. Nāna ahau i akiaki ki te waiata me te tātaki i te haka. He mea pai ērā. Ka hoki mai ahau ki te kura, i muri mai i taku wehenga, ki te āwhina i te rōpū, ā, i kite ahau i ētahi whatu e kimo mai ana. He hoa māua, he ōrite tō māua kaingākau ki te kapa haka. He hoa māua mō tētahi wā roa, ā, nāwai rā ka hua ake ētahi atu āhuatanga. 

Rawinia:

So you were taught how to lead haka, and that's what I want to talk about now. Kaitātaki Tāne, Kaitātaki Wāhine, talk about your experiences as a leader. 

Kei te pīrangi kōrero ahau ki a koe e pā ana ki te whakaakona ōu ki te tātaki i te haka. Kaitātaki Tāne, Kaitātaki Wahine, he aha ō kōrua wheako hei kaitātaki? 

Chris:

Well, I suppose being put into that role was just something that eventually happened. When I was in my younger years at James Cook, like third and fourth form, which would be year nine and 10 now, I observed those who were in front of me, my seniors at that time, and tried to emulate how they did things. And then I was fortunate, like I just said, to have then come under the wing of some really good kaiako that just supported me and helped me to grow. And that was really choice. And so, by the time I was getting ready to leave JC, and having led the team, and been trained under Dave, shown a few things by Howie Junior, being supported by ones like Uncle Bussy who was always around, and that allowed me to meet the Waka Huia whānau inadvertently, with Maihi Nikora. 

And so, when I was 17 I think, I auditioned for Pounamu, Pounamu Training Systems as they were called back then. And so, my tutors were Annette and Tapeta Wehi. 

He āhuatanga tērā i hua noa ake. Nōku i aku tau teina i James Cook, ko taku mahi he mātaki i ngā tuakana me te whai i a rātou. Waimarie hoki ahau i noho ahau ki ngā rekereke o ētahi kaiako tino pai, nā rātou ahau i tautoko, i āwhina hoki. Nā, ka tae ki te wā me wehe i a JC, kua ārahi ahau i te tīma, i ako ahau i tō Dave taha, nā Howie Junior ētahi āhuatanga i whakaatu mai, i tautokohia ahau e Uncle Bussy, he āhuatanga ērā i ārahi i a au ki te whānau o Waka Huia i tō Maihi Nikora taha. 

17 tau taku pakeke, ka whakamātau ahau mō Pounamu, ko Pounamu Training Systems te ingoa i aua rā. Ko Annette rāua ko Tapeta Wehi ngā kaiako. 

Rawinia:

Ah, yep.

Ka pai.

Chris:

And so that was another gradual learning progression for myself. And then that gave me more confidence. And so eventually when I went to club. 

He huarahi ako anō tērā. I tipu te māia. Nāwai rā ka peka atu ahau ki Club. 

Rawinia:

Club?

Club?

Chris: 

It's a club, Te Waka Huia, we call that club. So, I was fortunate to be able to go into that space. I was confident that I could, at that age 17, 18, you can take on the world. At that age 17, 18, you can look at others and think, "Yeah, I can do that, I can do what you can do, I could probably even do it a little bit better." Not full of arrogance, but just full of confidence that I had been groomed well, that I had been prepared well and that if a challenge is put in front of me, then I'm just going to smash it. So that was my mindset. 

And being around ones like my tuakana, were ones like Tomika, or ones like Freddy, ones like Tasi. And so just being in and amongst that, and knowing that their tukana above them were ones that Uncle Malcolm, and then had Wi and Boy. I was like, man, that gave me confidence that I was on the right track. So, when it came to things like joining club and being thrown into, "Oh well, here you go Te Manu Huia." "Oh, Te Manu Huia, easy, all good. Give it to me." So, when I was asked to lead the haka... 

Ko Te Waka Huia a club. Waimarie ahau i whai wāhi atu ahau ki tērā kaupapa. I mōhio ahau e āhei ana, 17 tau taku pakeke, ko te ao kei mua tonu i a au. 17, 18 rānei tō pakeke, ka whakaaro koe, “E taea ana e au, he pai ake pea au i a koe.” Ehara i te whakahīhī, he māia kē, i whakapono ahau ki ngā whakakoranga, ā, i mōhio ahau ka karawhiu ahau i ngā wero katoa i mua i te aroaro. Koinā taku aronga.  

I rawe te nohotahi atu ki ngā tuākana, te momo pēnei i a Tomika, i a Freddy me Tasi. He pai te nohotahi ki a rātou me te mōhio hoki ki ō rātou tuākana, pēnei i a Uncle Malcolm, a Wi me Boy. I whai kaha ahau i tērā mōhiotanga. Kātahi ahau ka whakahaua kia kuhu atu ki Te Manu Huia, ko tāku, “Manu Huia, ka pai, māmā noa iho.” Kātahi ahau ka tonoa kia tātaki i te haka ... 

Rawinia:

Was this for Te Manu Huia?

Mō Te Manu Huia?

Chris: 

This was for Te Manu Huia, but the haka was Ko Koe Tonu Rā, that famous haka about hauora Māori. And the thing is, is that if you get asked to lead, you're not going to get trained, you should already know all the words for the leadership. And so that was your test, you get thrown on the spot straight away. Even if you just walk in the door. "Okay, you can lead the haka." And so you have to come in prepared, because you didn't roll into that space having no grounding or no preparation. 

Prior to that I had trained at home on the back lawn, leading the haka, leading the haka, because I knew one day, one time, I would be asked by the whānau, "Na, kei a koe." And so I prepared myself mentally for that sort of opportunity, because I knew that if I was given that opportunity you need to step up to the plate. Because that's all I had heard being with the Wehi whānau, that's all I had heard being at Pounamu. 

When you're at Pounamu, you are in a little group and you have to be an all rounder. You've got to do the weaponry demo, you got to be able to hold your space in a small team. And so my confidence was brimming, and when I got asked to lead the haka, I just jumped in there and just went 110, 120, 150 percent. And I could see in the eyes of my tuakana, I could see that they were thinking that, "Yep, we've prepped him well, he's progressing well." And so I just kept pushing, I just kept pushing. And so my goal was to always to try to do the best that I could. 

And as a young fella, I'd always observe the great leaders of haka over the years. And in front of me, I had my tuakana, Chad Brown. I said, "Boy, I'm coming for your spot one day." 

Āe, Te Manu Huia, ko te haka ko Ko Koe Tonu Rā, te haka rongonui mō te hauora Māori.  Tōna tikanga, ka mōhio kē te kaitātaki ki ngā kupu. Koinā te whakamātautau tuatahi. Ka tomo koe ki roto i te kūaha, “Ka pai, māu e tātaki.” Nō reira me mōhio koe ki ngā mahi, kia mōhio rātou kua rite koe. 

I mua i tērā, katoa aku parakatihi i te kāinga, i waho i taku whare, i runga i te mōhio hei tētahi rā, ka tonoa ahau e te whānau, ka kī mai tētahi, “Na, kei a koe.” Nō reira i āta whakarite ahau i a au anō. Koinā ngā kōrero i rangona e au i te taha o te whānau Wehi, i te taha o Pounamu. 

I Pounamu, kei roto koe i tētahi punua rōpū, me te aha, me tau ki ngā āhuatanga katoa. Me mōhio koe ki te piu i te rākau, ki te tū kaha i roto i tō punua tīma. Ka tae mai te tono ki a au, ka tātaki ahau mō te hemo tonu atu. I kite ahau i te whakahīhī i roto i ngā kanohi o ōku tuākana. Nā ka karawhiu tonu ahau i ngā mahi, ko taku whāinga kia eke ki te taumata teitei e taea ana e au. 

Nōku e taiohi ana, ka mātaki ahau i ngā tino kaitātaki o te haka i roto i ngā tau, me te aha, i mua tonu i a au, ko taku tuakana, ko Chad Brown. Mea atu ahau ki a ia, “Taihoa ka tū ahau i tō tūranga.” 

Rawinia:

What was that spot?

He aha taua tūranga?

Chris:

Kaitātaki.

Kaitātaki.

Rawinia?

Yeah? Wow.

Nē? Mīharo.

Chris:

Kaitātaki for Te Waka Huia.

Kaitātaki mō Te Waka Huia.

Rawinia:

Yeah.

Āe.

Chris: 

So, leadership in Manu Huia, but then the grounding that you got there, always being around Uncle Bub was always his kōrero, just kia noho humārie, kia noho whakaiti. Be humble, be grateful, appreciate what you have, but if you get an opportunity, you need to step up and show what you have. 

So, the leadership for me started from there. So, I was grateful to have a good grounding, and then going to Te Manu Huia and to club, Waka Huia, man, I just felt like I was right in my element. But I kept pushing and I said, "I want to keep going, I want to be the best, I want to show that I can be the best." That was just a mindset that we had, because that's the mindset that we had with club, going to performance. "Okay, we're going and there and we're going to come out number one." Not in an arrogant sense, but just this mindset of excellence of performance, because that's always something that Uncle Bub always talked about. 

And then of course, that eventuated into the senior ranks amongst my seniors and my tuakana of Te Waka Huia. Just such a privilege, such a honor and learned some really great things from there. Those were the values that are still instilled in me today, and hopefully I've carried them across as we've come home to Muriwhenua, which is a whole nother thing as well, of leadership. 

I ako ahau i ngā pūkenga tātaki i Manu Huia, heoi anō ko te tūāpapa i reira, i te taha o Uncle Bub, he rite tonu tana kōrero mai, kia hūmārie, kia noho whakaiti. Kia pērā i ngā wā katoa, engari kia tae te wā ki te tū, me tuku tō katoa, whakaatuhia ō pūkenga katoa. 

 I tīmata ngā mahi tātaki i reira. Waimarie ahau i tīmata aku mahi i Te Manu Huia, ka piki ake ai ki a Waka Huia. I hiahia ahau ki te whanake tonu, ko tāku i whai ai kia eke ahau ki te taumata o ngā mahi. Koinā te aronga i Waka Huia, me ngā tū. “Ka pai, ko te angitu te whai.” Ehara i te āhua whakahīhī, engari he whai i te angitu, koinā te kauhau a Uncle Bub i ngā wā katoa. 

Kātahi ka whakawhiti ērā kōrero me ērā whakaakoranga ki te rōpū pakeke, ki a Te Waka Huia. He hōnore nui te hono atu ki taua tīma, ā, he nui ngā akoranga. Koinā ngā uara kei a au tonu, me te aha, e tūmanako ana kei te hora ahau i ēnei ki taku kāinga, ki a Muriwhenua. 

Rawinia:

It sure is.

Kei te pērā.

Sandra:

Well, my journey was totally different in terms of leadership. Nothing like Chris' over here. So fast forward 10 years, I went to support Chris in Manu Huia. I helped Uncle Paul in the kitchen. And so, I'm de-pithing fruit and Nan walked in and says, "Do you perform?" 

He rerekē taku huarahi i te āhua ki ngā mahi ārahi. He rerekē i tā Chris. I haere ahau ki te tautoko i a Chris i roto i a Manu Huia. I āwhina ahau i a Uncle Paul i roto i te kīhini. Nōku e mahi ana, ka mea mai a Nan, “He kaihaka koe?” 

Rawinia:

Just like that?

Koinā noa iho?

Sandra: 

Just like that. "Do you perform?" I said, "I can." And she said, "Yeah, Manu Huia needs some people. Want to give it a go?" I said- 

Āe. “He kaihaka koe?” Ka whakaae atu ahau. Kātahi ia ka mea mai, “Kei te whai tāngata a Manu Huia, kei te pīrangi tū koe?” Ka mea atu ahau- 

Rawinia:

Oh not a guitarist?

Hei kairakuraku?

Sandra: 

No, not a guitarist. Yeah. So, I said, "Oh, okay." So, I said to my husband, "Oh, my goodness, she just asked me if I could perform and Manu Huia needs some people to fill in." I said, "Oh, okay. Yeah, I'll give it a go." So anyway, I had a weekend to learn a bracket. 

Kāo, kaua hei kairakuraku. I whakaae atu ahau. Kotahi mutunga wiki anake ki a au hei ako i te katoa o ngā mahi. 

Sandra: 

One weekend. And that was pretty hard, pretty hard. So being given a leadership role at that stage, I was like, "Ah." 

Kotahi te mutunga wiki. He uaua tērā. Me te whiwhi tūranga nui i taua wā, i ohorere ahau. 

Rawinia:

You were given a leadership role in your first try?

I whai tūranga nui koe i tō tū tuatahi?

Sandra:

Yeah

Āe.

Rawinia:

Wow.

Mīharo.

Sandra: 

Mm. And I don't know why. I still don't know why to this day. But like Chris was saying, when you are asked to do something, you do it and you do it the best that you can. So my preparation was totally different. Here I am peeling oranges, taking off the white stuff, and next minute I'm learning a bracket and then having to get up. When you have to get up and you have to prove that you have got some goods or something. 

Kāore ahau i te mōhio he aha i pērā ai. Tē aro i a au i tēnei rā tonu nei. Heoi anō, pēnei i tā Chris i kī ai, ki te whakahaua koe kia mahi i tētahi mahi, me karawhiu mō te hemo tonu atu.  Anei ahau e waru ārani ana, mea rawa ake, kei te ako i ngā mahi kia rite mō te tū. Kia tū koe, me whakaatu ki te marea e tika ana tō whai wāhi atu. 

Chris:

Solos.

Ngā waiata takitahi

Sandra: 

Solos. I was like “Okay, e tū, Mōteatea.”

Waiata takitahi. I mea ahau, “Ka pai, e tū, Mōteatea.”

Chris:

E tū in front of everybody.

E tū i mua i te katoa.

Sandra: 

And I'm in front of everybody. I'm like, "Wow, this is just a totally different level. This is a totally different ballgame." I've known about Waka Huia, I've previously met the Wehi whānau through other things, and then to be put into a role like that, it was pretty mind blowing, but an amazing experience in the same token. And like I said, when you're given that opportunity, and if they think and believe you've got the goods to do something, then you just do it, you give it a go. 

E tū ana ahau i mua i te katoa. E whakaaro ana, “Kātahi rā, he rerekē tēnei taumata. He ao atu anō.” I mōhio ahau ki te whānau Wehi, heoi anō i taku whiwhi i taua tūranga rā, i ohorere katoa ahau, me te aha, kātahi te wheako pai. Ka hua ake he mahi pērā, me karawhiu mō te hemo tonu atu, kei te whakapono rātou ki a koe. 

Rawinia:

Yeah.

Āe.

Chris:

Then you also had to learn two brackets, aye, for the same campaign?

Waihoki i ako koe i ngā hōtaka e rua mo te kaupapa ōrite nē?

Sandra:

Oh yes.

Āe.

Rawinia:

You had to learn two brackets?

I ako koe i ngā hōtaka e rua?

Chris: 

Yeah, she was the reserve for the Waka Huia ladies and the leader for Te Manu Huia at the same time. So learning two brackets, and going between- 

Āe, ko ia te kaikapi wahine mō Waka Huia me te kaitātaki mō Manu Huia. I ako ia i ngā hōtaka e rua. 

Rawinia:

That’s unheard of.

Kāore anō tērā kia kitea.

Sandra: 

And I'd just not long had our son. So this was back in 97, so he was a six week old baby, and this was all going on, and it was like, "Okay, deep breaths. You can do this if this is what you want." Well, at that time I didn't know that's what I wanted, but it was an opportunity in the same token. So yeah, learning Manu's bracket and then being asked to lead different items, that was amazing, what an amazing experience. But the person that I looked up to the most was Aunty Vicky. Her words of inspiration, her words of, "Come on, Sandra, come on, give it." I was like, "Whoa, okay, let's do this." 

But also,I had seniors that were in club Waka Huia that were from Queen Vic. So Moko Templeton, Kristin Kohere, so I already had... So, I was like, "Oh, my tuakana are over there, I'd better do a damn good job." 

Kātahi anō hoki ka whānau mai tā māua tama. I te tau 97 tēnei, 6 wiki tana pakeke, i te whakaaro ahau “Hā ki roto. E āhei ana koe mēnā koinei tō hiahia.” Kāore ahau i mōhio ki tāku i hiahia ai i taua wā, engari he mahi mīharo. I rawe te ako i te tū a Manu Huia me te tātaki i ētahi o ngā mahi, he wheako rawe rawa atu. Ko Aunty Vicky taku tino iho pūmanawa. Ko āna kupu whakaawe i a au ko “Kia kaha Sandra, tukuna.” I te whakaaro ahau, “Ka pai, ki te hoe.” 

I roto hoki ētahi o aku pakeke nō Kuīni Wikitōria i a Waka Huia. Te momo pēnei i a Moko Templeton me Kristin Kohere, nō reira i te whakaaro ahau “Kei konei aku tuākana, me pai aku mahi.” 

Rawinia:

Yeah. Wow, awesome. 

Rawe. Mōharo.

Sandra: 

And then learning two brackets. Then the year of 98, I had the privilege of leading Te Manu Huia on stage. 

Kātahi ka ako i ngā hōtaka e rua. I te tau 98, nōku te whiwhi i tātaki ahau i a Manu Huia i runga i te atamira. 

Rawinia:

And then swiftly moved on to Te Waka Huia

Kātahi ka piki ki a Waka Huia. 

Sandra:

Swiftly moved on to Te Waka Huia. 

Ka piki tere ki a Te Waka Huia. 

Rawinia:

And maybe not kaitāitaki wāhine, but a soloist. 

Ehara pea hei kaitātaki wahine, engari he kaiwaiata takitahi. 

Sandra:

But once again, like you say, when you are given that opportunity, you do it, and you do it well. 

Pēnei i tō kōrero, ki te ara ake he mahi, karawhiua mō te hemo tonu atu. 

Chris:

And you're really groomed by aunty Nan to be under pressure and still pull out the goods. 

Nā Aunty Nen i whakatō te āhua o te eke i roto i ngā horopaki uaua. 

Sandra: 

Yeah, it felt like that, because at the time we had decided, "Okay, well the rest of our whānau, let's bring the rest of my siblings and see if they can have a go at Manu Huia." So it was a progression as a whānau. And I don't know if you notice, when we do something, the rest will follow. And it's been like that our whole, entire lives. And so the pressure was on, because now I'm training with siblings and cousins, and as we all know in that game, you have to be at the highest level of everything. Fitness, you have to be ready with your children. It's all the behind scenes, all the stuff that happens prior to getting to a noho that you have to be prepared for. So the pressure was certainly on because if one of your whānau members don't make it, the rest of us get affected in some sort of way. 

Koinā te āhua i taua wā, i whakaaro ake ahau, “Me tō mai pea i te toenga o taku whānau, ka whai wāhi atu pea rātou ki a Manu Huia.” He whanaketanga ā-whānau. Kāore pea koe i te mōhio, heoi anō, kia mahi mātou i tētahi mahi, ko te katoa ka whai i taua mahi rā. Kua pērā nō mai anō. Nō reira ka rongo mātou katoa i te uaua o ngā mahi, nā te mea me eke mātou katoa. Te whakapakari tinana, me rite hoki ngā tamariki. Me rite ngā āhuatanga katoa i tua atu o te atamira. He uaua nā te mea ki te kore tētahi o te whānau e whai wāhi atu, ka rongo te katoa i tērā pānga. 

Rawinia:

Yeah absolutely. Don’t make the team, you mean?

E mea ana koe. He aha te tikanga o tērā kōrero, e kore e whai wāhi atu?

Sandra:

Yeah, that don't make the team. I think there were, how many of us trialing for 2000? There was me, Chris, Daniel, Thomas, Samantha, Hera, Renee. And out of the seven of us, six of us made it, but Renee, Cousin Renee, she led Manu's, same sort of thing as me. 

Te kore i whai wāhi atu ki te tīma. Tokohia mātou i whakamātau mō te tīma i te tau 2000? Ko mātou ko Chris, ko Daniel, ko Thomas, ko Samantha, ko Hera me Renee. Tokoono o roto i te tokowhitu ka whai wāhi atu, heoi anō te whanaunga, a Renee, i tātaki ia i a Manu Huia, pēnei i a au i ērā tau. 

Rawinia:

Beautiful. Wow. Is there anything else you want to share about your time in Waka Huia before we move on to mighty Muriwhenua? 

Ātaahua. He kōrero atu anō e pā ana ki tō noho i Waka Huia i mua i te whakawhiti atu ki Muriwhenua? 

Chris:

Just-

Sandra:

The lessons.

Ngā akoranga.

Chris:

Yeah. We learnt some really good life lessons that we still carry today, and sometimes when we find things maybe difficult, or in a sticking point or sticking place, we reflect back on values and lessons that were shared with us from uncle and auntie. And one of the things that really sticks out in my mind is giving opportunity for others. 

Āe. He nui ngā akoranga ka titikaha ki te ngākau, i ōna wā ka rongo i te uaua, i te taumaha rānei, hei reira hoki atu ai ki ngā akoranga me ngā uara nā Uncle rāua ko Aunty i tuku mai. Ko tētahi o ngā tino ko te tuku i ngā mahi ki ētahi atu. 

Sandra:

They never judged us.

Kāore rāua i whakawā.

Chris:

They never judged you in terms of...

Kāore i whakawā i a koe i te āhua ki...

Sandra:

Who you were, where you came from, what's your background. Because koro always said, "Everyone has a story." 

Tō whakapapa, nō hea koe, tō hītori. Ko tā Koro, “He kōrero tō ngā tāngata katoa.” 

Chris:

Yeah. And everyone has a place. And he had such a big heart that from people from all walks of life were given an opportunity to walk into this space, and to be in a learning space, to be in a sharing space, to be in a safe space, because Uncle Bub always was prominent in his whakaaro about the roles of tāne and wāhine, and the roles of keeping the space safe. He was always talking about and encouraging us, "Hey, you fellas, stop the drinking. Hey, we won't have any of this funny business over here." If he talked about men mistreating their woman, he'd always come and give us the stern talking to. "Hey, I don't want to hear about any of you boys doing any of this sort of stuff," if this sort of things happened. 

He wāhi mō ngā tāngata katoa. He nui tōna manawa, ahakoa ko wai te tangata, ka pōhiritia ia ki tēnei wāhi āhuru, he wāhi ako, he kaha a Uncle Bub ki te aro ki ngā mahi a te tāne me te wahine, me ngā mahi whakahaumaru i ērā wāhi. He kaha tana kī mai ki a mātou, “Me mutu te inu waipiro, kaua e pōrangi i konei.” Mēnā ia ka kōrero mō ngā mahi kino a ngā tāne ki ā rātou wahine, ka kotahi mai ia ki a mātou ki te kōrero ki a mātou. “Kaua rawa koutou e pērā,” ki te pērā ngā mahi. 

Sandra:

He just genuinely cared about anything and everything he did. 

I tino arohanui ia ki ngā mea katoa e hāngai ana ki a mātou. 

Chris:

Yeah, he just genuinely cared about the men. There'd be times when he'd get all the men, "Oh, come in here you men." We'd sit down and he goes, "Okay, I'm going to talk about." Aunty Nen would come in and she'd sit in. "Okay men, we're going to talk about prostate cancer." And Aunty Nen would get up and say, "Oh, I don't need to be in here." But it's been because he had a genuine concern about the health of the men. 

He nui tana aroha ki ngā tāne. Tērā ētahi wā ka karanga atu ia ki ngā tāne, “Haramai tāne mā.” Ka noho mātou, ka kī mai ia, “Ka pai, kei te pīrangi kōrero ahau.” Ka noho mai a Nan. “Kei te pīrangi kōrero ahau mō te mate pukupuku repe tātea.” Ka tū a Nan ka kī, “Kāore he take o taku noho mai.” Nā tana aroha nui ki te hauora o ngā tāne. 

Sandra:

Yes, health and wellbeing.

Āe, te hauora me te oranga tonutanga.

Chris:

He always urged the men to be healthy, to eat healthy kai. And so, his concern was more than just the kapa haka.

He kaha tana akiaki i ngā tāne ki te kai i ngā kai pai. 

Ka aro ia ki ngā āhuatanga i waho ati i te kapa haka.

Rawinia:

Yea, more than the stage.

Āe, neke atu i te atamira.

Chris:

Yeah, it was more than the stage. So his concern was about the welfare and how are our whānaus within this space? How are our men? How are our wāhine? there? So those are the values that I learned from Uncle Bub, so those are things that we make sure that we try to continue within our space of kapa haka. There's the stage stuff, but then off the stage, how is our whānau environment? How are our members in terms of everything that's going on and how can we support everybody? 

Āe, i neke atu i te atamira. Nō reira ko tana aronga te ora o ngā whānau i roto i tēnei wāhi? Kei te pēhea ngā tāne? Kei te pēhea ngā wāhine? Koinā ngā uara i whakaakona mai e Uncle Bub me te aha ka ngana ahau ki te kawe i ērā mahi ki roto i ngā wāhi kapa haka katoa. Ko ngā mahi i runga i te atamira, i tua hoki o te atamira, kei te pēhea te ao o te whānau? Kei te pēhea ngā mema, ā, he aha ētahi mahi hei āwhina i a rātou? 

Sandra:

So what we learned is haka is not a hobby, hakas is definitely a lifestyle.

Ehara a kapa haka i te kaupapa kaingākau, he momo oranga.

Chris:

Yeah. And then with Aunty Nen, wow she was a hard task master as you know, eh Sis?

Āe, ka mutu, Aunty Nen, he taikaha ia, nē, tuahine?

Rawinia:

Yip.

Āe.

Chris:

But she was that way inclined because when it comes to doing the mahi and getting the results, that's what's required. And so it goes hand in hand, the discipline of the mahi, but also making sure that we set up good support systems to awhi the team. So those are the real leadership qualities that we picked up.

And of course, as we know, Uncle Bub on the stage leading the haka, there was no one else to compare to him leading the haka in terms of the ihi, in terms of the drive in that haka space, te haka ā Tane-Rore. For those of us that have been there, those of us that have stood in the rows and felt the power of Uncle Bub's voice as he walks up these ranks, man, what I can remember is feeling like my body's on fire. What I can remember is feeling like I'm invincible. That was the feeling that you got when you're in the rows and Uncle Bub's leading. For that moment, for those three minutes, you become immortal and you live forever. That was the power of Uncle Bub leading the haka.

And so for us, man, we're just so humble and grateful to have been in that space at that time, because it's still things that I reflect on, it's things that we reflect on. Things that I try to teach my young leaders is, "Hey, when it's time to lead you are the inspiration, you are the driving force that takes the haka taparahi, or the haka eke, or whatever item, takes from here to there." And Uncle Bub always talked about starting strong and finishing stronger, all those sort of things. So those are things we try to emulate and share with our whānau, even though it's a different context coming from a big team that's always hitting the top level of competitive kapa haka, coming home, it was like...

I pērā ia nā te mea ki te whiwhi i ngā pāinga, me pērā ngā mahi. E noho tahi ana ērā āhuatanga, me ū ki ngā mahi, me whakarite pūnaha tautoko hoki hei āwhina i te tīma. Koinā ngā pūmanawa i ākona.

Kāore he tangata i tua atu i a Uncle Bub mō te tātaki i te haka i runga i te atamira, tana ihi, tana pupuri i te manawataki, te haka a Tānerore. Mō te hunga mōhio, kua tū ki te haka i te wā e tātaki ana a Uncle Bub, kāore he kupu, ānō e wera ana taku kiri. I whakaaro ahau he atua ahau. Koinā te āhua o ngā kare ā-roto nō Koro Bub e tātaki ana. I taua wā rā, i aua mēneti e toru, he atua koe. Koinā te kaha o ngā mahi tātaki a Uncle Bub.

He hōnore nui mō mātou, he āhuatanga hei whirinakitanga, hei hokinga maharatanga anō hoki. Ka pēnā taku whakaako i ngā rangatira o āpōpō, “Kia tae te wā ka tū koe hei kaitātaki, ko koe te kaiwhakaawe, te manawataki, te kaikawe i te haka i konei ki konā.” Hei tā Uncle Bub, kia kaha te tīmatanga, kia kaha ake te whakatepenga, koirā ngā momo kōrero. Ka ngana mātou ki te whai i ērā kōrero me te whakaatu atu ki te whānau, ahakoa te rerekē o te horopaki, me eke ki taua taumata o te tīma whakataetae, ka hoki mai mātou ki te kāinga, he āhua . . .

Sandra:

Totally different.

He rerekē rawa atu.

Rawinia:

Home in Te Tai Tokerau, eh?

Te Kāinga i Te Tai Tokerau nei?

Sandra:

Home in Te Tai Tokerau, yeah.

Āe, te kāinga i Te Tai Tokerau nei.

Chris:

Coming home to Te Tai Tokerau.

Te hoki mai ki te kāinga ki Te Tai Tokerau nei.

Rawinia:

To start your own roopū.

Ki te tīmata i tō roopū?

Chris:

To start the roopū and sharing, but it always comes back to what Uncle Bub urged us to do, was to come home and share, to come home and uplift our people, come home and give back. Because it's not about you yourself, you've had your time up there, you've had your time up there and that's all cool, you've done well and that, but what are you doing for others? What can you do for others? Can you give others opportunity? Can you uplift your community?

Ki te whakatū rōpū me te whakaatu i ngā mahi, ka hoki ki ngā kōrero a Uncle Bub, me hoki ki te kāinga ki te tuku i ngā mahi me te whakapiki i ngā tāngata, he whakahoki i te aroha ki te kāinga. Kia whānui te titiro, me mutu te whakaaro mōu anake, kua ea te wāhi ki a koe, he aha ō mahi mō ētahi atu? Ka aha koe mō ētahi atu? Ka whakarite wāhi koe mō ētahi atu? E āhei ana koe te whakapiki i te ora o tō hapori?

Sandra:

Can you inspire your community?

E āhei ana koe te whakaawe i tō hapori?

Chris:

Can you inspire your community? So we came home with these-

E āhei ana koe te whakaawe i tō hapori? Nō reira ka whakahokia mai ko ēnei.

Sandra:

Great intentions.

He takune pai.

Chris:

With these, "We're going straight to the top, we're going straight to the top line whānau." Only because that was our competitive mindset.

Me te whakaaro, “Ka eke mātou ki te toi o ngā mahi, e te whānau.” Nā te mea koirā te aronga.

Sandra:

That’s all we knew.

Koinā noa iho tā mātou i mōhio ai.

Chris:

That’s all we knew.

E mea ana koe.

Sandra:

That’s all we knew. So whenyou come home and you think, “Hey, let’s go, let’s get in to it.” And it’s like, oh right back to grassroots.

Tika hoki. Nō reira ka hoki atu koe ki te kāinga, ka whakaaro ake, “Ka pai, kia kotahi atu ki ngā mahi,” Engari ko te kāinga tēnei.

Chris:

Yeah, it has to restart and reset.

Me tīmata anō.

Rawinia:

Well, that's it, the grassroots in Te Tai Tokerau. You've got all these learnings and these gems to share, but remembering it's Te Tai Tokerau.

Differences in styles. What were those obstacles or differences? The things you had to struggle with or not struggle with?

Āe, ko te kāinga i Te Tai Tokerau. He nui ngā akoranga me ngā kura huna hei tuku engari me mahara ake, ko Te Tai Tokerau Tēnei.

He rerekē ngā tāera. He aha aua taupā, aua rerekētanga rānei? Ngā mea uaua, māmā hoki?

Chris:

Well, I think it's, when we did come home we spent quite a few years actually teaching a lot of tamariki, who then after 10, 15 years became adults. And so it allowed us to continue the progression with ones that we've worked with who are now become young adults, but also allow other people from the community to come home. But then it also reminded us that we actually need to do a lot of rangahau, a lot of research into Tai Tokerau kōrero, into Tai Tokerau hītori. And then we came to the realization that actually, for us, it's different now coming home, because it's not so much about the competitive stuff, it's about connecting our people to their tātai hekenga, the whakapapa ō te kāinga, hītori ō te kāinga and making sure that we are being genuine with the kōrero narratives and stuff, and making sure that all those things are in place first.

So it was a journey for us in terms of coming home and learning the te mita ō te kāinga , in terms of learning tikanga of why we do things up here and the purpose. And so our mindsets started to change from competitive, competitive, I want to win everything all the time, to actually coming back to grassroots and sharing the history, sharing whakapapa connections and researching the styles of certain roopū. So for us, when we did decide to start up a team called Muriwhenua, the name actually came from my wife's grandparents who always talked about ko Muriwhenua te rohe. And so for us it was about trying to discover it. So we named the team Muriwhenua, only to find that actually there was originally, in 1972, the first Muriwhenua team was there at that time.

I te hokitanga mai ki te kāinga, ka roa māua e whakaako ana i ngā tamariki, ka hipa te 10, 15 tau, nāwai rā kua pakeke. Nō reira māmā noa iho te kawe tonu i ngā mahi i tō rātou taha me te whakarite wāhi e hoki mai ai ētahi ki te kāinga. He whakamaharatanga pai hoki mō mātou nā te mea ka mate mātou ki te rangahau i ngā kōrero me ngā hītori o te Tai Tokerau. Kātahi te kapa ka taka, he rerekē ngā mahi i te kāinga, ehara te whakataetae i te aronga, ko te whakahono anō i ngā tāngata ki ō rātou tātai hekenga, te whakapapa o te kāinga, te hītori o te kāinga hoki, waihoki kia mōhio rātou ki ērā kōrero katoa i te tuatahi.

Nō reira he ara roa mō mātou te hoki ki te kāinga me te ako i te mita, i ngā tikanga me ngā whāinga. Ka huri tō mātou tāera i te tāera whakataetae ki te tāera tuku kōrero mō te kāinga, mō te whakapapa me te rangahau i ngā tāera a ngā momo rōpū. I hua ake te ingoa Muriwhenua i ngā kaumātua o taku makau, he rite tonu tā rātou kī “Ko Muriwhenua te rohe.” Nō reira ko tā mātou he hura i tērā rohe. Ka whakaingoa mātou i te rōpū, heoi anō kātahi mātou ka mōhio, he tīma Muriwhenua kē nō te tau 1972.

Rawinia:

Wow.

Mīharo.

Sandra:

We never ever knew that.

Kāore mātou i mōhio.                                                                 

Chris:

But we never actually knew that. So we were like, "Oh man, actually let's do some more research." And so through the research we started to learn different tikanga and aspects that teams from up home used to have. And so there's a really awesome kōrero and narratives.

Kāore mātou i mōhio. Nō reira ka mate mātou ki te rangahau. I roto i ngā mahi rangahau, ka kite mātou i ētahi o ngā tikanga me ngā whakahaere rerekē i kawea ake e ngā tīma o te kāinga. He rawe ngā kōrero me ngā pūrākau.

Rawinia:

What are they?

He aha ērā?

Chris:

Well, the true northern style for Muriwhenua in Te Rarawa over that side was more simple there. The more simplistic style of kapa haka. Not so overly aggressive.

He māmā noa iho te tāera a Muriwhenua i tā Te Rarawa. He tāera kapa haka māmā. Ehara i te tāera taikaha.

Sandra:

Just real ngāwari.

He ngāwari noa iho.

Chris:

Real ngāwari. Kia māmā te haere And certain things, which are actually quite similar to some other rohe, but they were mainly dictated by the taiao, the environment, things that were happening at that time. So for example, our Te Rarawa and our Muriwhenua team out on the coast on 90 miles side, for the men, their kākahu was rimurimu. So the seaweed was their was their maro and some of the movements reflected the moana, the taiao. And there were certain tikanga that's eroded now because we all need heaps of choreography, we need to give the wow factor, the X factor, but there was certain tikanga that we always stuck to. One was there was never any splitting of the ranks. And so now we have teams that open up, here comes the ti hangai, and we want to run around, and here comes the revolving door and all this sort of stuff going on. 

That was never really done in those days. The tikanga was to stay in the rows as the men come forward, the men come forward through the space, through the gaps, and then the men go back without turning around. Just all those simple tikanga things. But for us, it's been a journey of discovery, and research and trying to align the kōrero narratives with what we do, why we do it now. So things now, for us, are based in around tikanga, having a purpose and a reason for doing things. Why are we doing this for? What does this mean? What's the whakapapa connection? Who are the tupuna? So those are things that we are implementing at the moment, as well as- 

He tino ngāwari. Kia māmā te haere. He āhua ōrite ki ētahi atu rohe, he mea whakahau mātou e ngā āhuatanga o te taiao me ngā kaupapa o te wā. Hei tauira, he rimurimu ngā kākahu o ngā tāne o ngā tīma o Te Rarawa me Muriwhenua. He maro te rimurimu, ā, ko ngā nekehanga ka whakaahua i te moana, i te taiao tonu. He tikanga kua rerekē i ēnei rā nā te nui o ngā nekehanga, e whai ana ko te kura huna, heoi anō kua ū mātou ki tērā tikanga. Ko tētahi atu tikanga ko te noho pū a te tīma, arā kāore i wāhihia, engari i ēnei rangi ka kitea te tī hangaia me ngā āhua kūaha nekeneke, ērā momo. 

Kāore i tino pērā i aua rā. Ko te tikanga ko te noho i ngā rārangi, ka neke whakamua ngā tāne mā roto mai i ngā rārangi, kātahi ka hoki atu, e kore e huri. 

Ko aua tikanga māmā. He ara whai tuakiri tēnei, he ara rangahau me te whakahāngai i ngā kōrero ki ā mātou mahi. He aha i mahi ai i ēnei mahi? He aha te tikanga o ēnei mahi? He aha te hononga whakapapa? Ko wai ngā tūpuna? Koinā ngā āhuatanga e whakatinanahia ana i te wā nei me te- 

Rawinia:

An example?

He tauira?

Sandra:

The takahi.

Te takahi

Chris:

The takahi.

Te takahi.

Rawinia:

What’s that?

He aha tērā?

Sandra:

The pipi swivel, or the pipi shuffle, as some refer it to.

Te pipi swivel, te pipi shuffle ki ētahi.

Chris:

Yeah, so the pipi shuffle, there's other kupu for it, but that was a prominent takahia for our wāhine from up north, but mostly for coastal hapu, for coastal iwi. 

Ko te pipi shuffle te kupu matua mō te takahi a ngā wāhine o te Tai Tokerau, te nuinga o ngā hapū me ngā iwi nōho takutai. 

Rawinia:

Okay.

Ka pai.

Chris:

Another tikanga that I found quite interesting learning was that Tai Tokerau and we used to have a hako.

Ko ētahi atu tikanga pai ko tā Te Tai Tokerau whakamahi I te hako.

Rawinia:

Oh.

Nē?

Chris:

A hako.

Āe, he hako.

Rawinia:

What’s a hako?

He aha te hako?

Chris:

A hako would be a person that would lead your group on to the stage. So, in terms of whakaeke, you would start on this one side and as the woman chant, "Ah da da, ah da da da," men would be, "Hurrah ra ta, da da, da da da." But leading them on would be the hako, and he would be making gestures and trying to get laughs out of the crowd. And the crowd would be, "Ah!" And then all of a sudden he'd change it up and serious. And then the group would come on and they'd boom, boom, boom. 

Ko te hako te tangata ārahi i te rōpū i runga i te atamira. I te āhua ki te whakaeke, ka tīmata ki tētahi taha, ko tā ngā wāhine he “ah da da, ah da da,” ko tā ngā tāne he “hurrah ra ta, da da, da da da.” Heoi anō ko te hako ka ārahi i a rātou, ko tāna he karawhiu i ētahi ringa rerekē hei whakangahau i te hunga mātakitaki. Ka mīharo te hunga mātakitaki, kātahi ia ka rerekē anō, ka ōkawa, mea rawa ake kua whakaeke mai te rōpū, ā, kua kēhi. 

Rawinia:

Like your uncles in the say.

Pēnei i ō matua kēkē i ngā rā o mua.

Chris:

Yeah, sory of, pretty much like that. So that was the style. More simplistic, but then you had these key features or characters like the hako. And so some people enjoyed the performance because they're waiting for the hako. And the hako played a really prominent role in it. So those sort of things have been lost, sort of, because now sometimes we have two rows of hako. 

And I remember Uncle Bub always talked about the hako. And us in Waka Huia, we always made a joke, "Oh, the bros the hako." So those sort of things. 

Another thing I learned was in terms of the original Muriwhenua team, for the men, we'd have two rows of kotiate. 

Āe, pēnā. Koinā te tāera. He māmā engari he kiripuaki, he āhuatanga rānei ka pakō pēnei i te hako. I ōna wā e whanga ana te hunga mātakitaki kia puta mai te hako. He nui te mahi a te hako. Kua āhua ngaro ērā āhuatanga i te mea e rua ngā rārangi hako ināianei. 

He kaha tā Uncle Bub kōrero mō te hako. He kōrero kata te hako i waenganui i a mātou o Waka Huia, “Te āhua nei he hako tērā tangata.” Ērā momo āhuatanga. 

Ko tētahi atu āhuatanga i ākona ko tā ngā tane o Muriwhenua tū me ngā kotiate, ngā rārangi e rua. 

Rawinia:

Oh.

Nē?

Chris:

You have two rows of kotiate, which you don't see anyone having two rows of kotiate. And only the kaitātaki had the taiaha or the tewhatewha, so only the leader had the long weapon and the rows of men had the short weapon. 

Āe, e rua ngā rārangi mau kotiate, me uaua ka kitea tērā. Ko te kaitātaki anake e mau ana i te taiaha, i te tewhatewha rānei, māna te rākau roa, mā te rōpū ngā rākau poto. 

Rawinia:

Reasons for that?

He aha ai?

Chris:  

That was just the tikanga. The leader would be recognized by the long rākau and the men used kotiate. So there's many other narratives that we're researching and stuff, and over time we are going to hopefully implement it. But some of the stuff that we have integrated at the moment is based on narratives of kōrero that relate to us as Muriwhenua. So one korero is ko ngā iwi ō runga, ki te Hiku-o-te-Ika a Muriwhenua. Ko ngā kaitiaki ō Te Rerenga Wairua. So for those of us that reside in the far north, we are known as the guardians of the spiritual realm or the pathway to the spirits. So we've always had this narrative of us being on the whenua amongst the people that walk through.

So ki ētahi kōrero, the spirit walkers is tētahi momo. So hence we've adapted the ko te puhoro engari ka āhua mā te tai, so just representing our connection to that kōrero.

So through research we are finding old narratives, but we are also trying to initiate and incorporate old kōrero but with a new type of momo. And I suppose it's trying to find a balance between sticking to tikanga and tradition, and still trying to have this edge-

Koinā te tikanga. Ka kitea te kaitātaki nā tana karawhiu i te rākau roa, ko te rōpū ka mau i te rākau poto. He nui ngā kōrero pērā e rangahaua ana kia pai ai tā mātou whakatinana. Ko ētahi o ngā āhuatanga kua whakatinanatia kētia, i ahu mai i ngā kōrero mō Muriwhenua. Pēnei i tēnei – Ko ngā iwi o runga, ki te Hiku-o-te-Ika a Muriwhenua. Ko ngā kaitiaki o Te Rerenga Wairua. Mōhiotia ana mātou o te nōta hei kaitiaki i te ao wairua, i te rerenga wairua rānei. Kua roa tēnei kōrero e ora ana mō mātou i runga i te whenua.

Ki ētahi, he momo te hunga hīkoi me ngā wairua. Nā reira i panonihia ai te pūhoro kia āhua mā te tai, hei whakaahua i tō mātou hononga ki tērā kōrero.

Kei te kitea mai ngā kōrero o uki i roto i ngā rangahau, ā, kei te tuitui mātou i ērā kōrero tawhito ki ngā tāera hou. Kei te rapu i te kauhanga nui o te ū ki ngā tikanga me te whai kia koi ngā mahi-

Rawinia:

Yeah. Absolutely.

E mea ana koe.

Chris:

That’s appealing to our people-

Kia rata mai te hunga mātakitaki.

Sandra:

To the now.

Ki te hunga o nāianei.

Chris:

To the now, to our young ones that are out there watching. Also to our kaiwhakawā that are pretty much traditionalists in the mahi. So it's trying to navigate through this space and find what works for us as a whānau.

Te hunga o nāianei, te hunga rangatahi e mātakitaki ana. Waihoki ngā kaiwhakawā, he hunga ū ki ngā tikanga. Nō reira kei te whai i tētahi ara pai mō mātou, mō te whānau.

Sandra:

But also knowing that when we do things, there's always a reason or a purpose behind it. We just don't do it because it looks flash, or we don't just do it just because. There's definitely a reason and purpose for doing the things, doing it our way, I guess.

I runga hoki i te mōhio, he take mō ngā mahi katoa. Ehara i te mea ka karawhiua i runga i te pai o te āhua. He take mō ngā mea katoa, e hāngai ana ki a mātou.

Rawinia:

So, kei te haere tonu te rangahau?

Nō reira kei te haere tonu te rangahau?

Sandra:

Definitely.

Āe marika.

Rawinia:

You might be looking towards a part two?

Me aro pea ki te wāhanga tuarua pea.

Chris:  

Yeah. Kore mate ēnā mahi. There always the saying that you never stop learning. You never stop because, because the knowledge base is so deep. When we started to research Muriwhenua history, we go back 800, 900 years of kōrero, and whakapapa, and events and things that happened with our different tupunas. I said, "Okay, how can we fit this all into a short performance time?" So probably, yeah, we've got more to learn, more to grow and more to share.

Āe, e kore e mate ēnā mahi. E kore ngā mahi ako e mutu. He hōhonu te puna mātauranga. He 800, 900 tau te roa o ngā kōrero o ngā whakapapa o roto i te hītori o Muriwhenua, ngā kaupapa me ngā mahi a ngā tūpuna katoa. Ko tāku “Ka pēhea tā mātou whakauru i ērā kōrero katoa ki te tū poto?” He nui ngā mea hei ako, hei whanake, hei tuku anō hoki.

Sandra:  

Absolutely. And I guess the part that's become a little bit tricky for us is that religion has played a big part in covering or burying our tikanga for haka.

E mea ana koe. Ko te mea uaua ko tā te whakapono huna i ngā tikanga haka o konei.

Rawinia:

Can we talk a bit more about that? Have we got that time?

Kōrero mai mō tēnā? He wā e toe ana?

Chris:  

Yeah, I suppose for myself and for my wife, we've seen different rohe who are quite prominent in the mahi, quite strong in the mahi. And we have a look at the history of Tai Tokerau and a lot of the hāhi having strong influence over a lot of our whānau, our marae, our hapū. And so I suppose to an extent, a lot of the mahi had been eroded to a certain extent. But we are fortunate that in some pockets of Tai Tokerau it still remains strong. And so for us, I suppose we are going to have a duty to try to research and try to bring everything back in.

As we see now, kapa haka is really popular amongst our youth, amongst all reanga. And so we're excited for the future, and as long as we guide our young ones and support them, ones like us, we can sit back and know that we've done the best job that we can to try to make sure that there's some real positive momentum going forward with the teachings of Tai Tokerau haka, Tai Tokerau waiata.

He nui ngā rohe kua kitea e māua ko taku makau, he nui ā rātou mahi, he kaha ā rātou mahi. Ka titiro māua ki te hītori o Te Tai Tokerau, he nui te pānga o te hāhi ki ngā whānau, ngā marae me ngā hapū. Kua āhua rerekē ngā mahi i tērā āhua. Waimarie ana mātou, e kaha tonu ana ngā mahi i roto i ētahi wāhanga o te Tai Tokerau. Nō reira he mahi nui mā mātou te rangahau i ngā kōrero tūturu me te whakahoki mai.

Kei te rata mai ngā rangatahi ki te kapa haka, ngā reanga o te wā. Hīkaka ana ki te kite i ngā mahi kei mua i te aroaro, engari me mātua tautoko mātou, tō mātou momo, i a rātou, kia tika, kia pai hoki ngā mahi, ngā haka a Te Tai Tokerau me ngā waiata a Te Tai Tokerau.

Rawinia:

That was a lot guys, and all the best for that rangahau. Keep sharing, keep doing what you do. Thank you so much for coming today, it's really been an honor and a privilege. We might get you back for part two. But, any last words for our rangitahi out there taking te ao haka?

He nui ērā kōrero e hoa mā, kia kaha kōrua me ā kōrua rangahau. Kia kaha kōrua ki te mahi tonu i ā kōrua mahi me te tuku atu. Tēnā kōrua i ngā mahi i te rā nei, nōku te whiwhi. Me hoki mai pea kōrua mō te wāhanga tuarua. Heoi anō he kupu whakamutunga ā kōrua ki ngā rangatahi whai i te ao haka?

Chris:  

Just a big mihi to you all, our next gen. Keep your finger on the button when it comes to performing arts. Go hard in all your mahi. That’s it from me. Thank you all.

E mihi ana ki a koutou, rangatahi mā, taiohi mā. Kia mau ki te kakau o te hoe o ēnei o ngā mahi a Rēhia, a Tāne-Rore. Kia kaha i roto i ngā mahi katoa. Koira tāku. Tēnā koutou, kia ora mai anō tātou.

Rawinia:

Kia ora.

Kia ora.