Te Ao Haka Podcasts

Ko te tauira reo Pākehā kē tēnei o te whārangi nei, i te korenga o tētahi tauira reo Māori.

Ki te tika te whakatauira atu, ka tika te whāia mai”.

These resources are designed to support Te Ao Haka.

Watch, read, listen, and share this series of informative podcasts from across the motu.

These podcasts feature a range of people who are experienced in the art of Te Ao Haka, talking about their learning and teaching experiences and the benefits Te Ao Haka has given them.

Ki te tika te whakatauira atu, ka tika te whāia mai”.

These resources are designed to support Te Ao Haka.

Watch, read, listen, and share this series of informative podcasts from across the motu.

These podcasts feature a range of people who are experienced in the art of Te Ao Haka, talking about their learning and teaching experiences and the benefits Te Ao Haka has given them.

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Title: Watch the podcasts on Vimeo:

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    • Title: Te Ao Haka Podcasts
    • URL: https://vimeo.com/showcase/10599938
    • Description: Te Ao Haka podcast bring a range of kōrero to fill your kete mātauranga (basket of knowledge).

    Transcripts

    Transcripts

    [ Accordion ]

    Interviewer: Tauke King

    Interviewee: Te Reweti Elliot

    Location: Ngāti Awa

    Intro

    Birds eye view of a harbour with boats and land on either side with the sun rising in the background. A view of a island in the ocean with a orange glow sky behind it. Close up of waves crashing on the shore with some coastline in the background. A shot of the beach at low tide with a father and son walking in the wet sand with mountain ranges in the distant background. A shot of rocky coastline with 3 people at the edge surf casting into the ocean which leads to a island in the background. A close up on a carving. A pan shot of a Marae, followed by close ups of its carvings then a shot of the carvings entrance to the marae with the marae in the background. Close up images of the entrance carvings. Shots of the iwi waka carving. A shot of the harbour again where you can see boats and houses in the distance. A standalone giant rock with a sculpture of a women at the top of it looking out to the ocean which is in the background. Then a further away shot of the same image which shows more of the back the giant rock sits on. Ngāti Awa appears on the screen as the last image fades to black and then Te Ao Haka pans from the left onto the screen. The interview begins with a close up of the interviewer chanting in māori with the interviewee appearing blurred in the close up. Both Males are sitting on a red chair each with a table between them which has two white mugs on it. In the background is a projected screen with the words “Te Ao Haka, Ngāti Awa” displayed in white on a green background. Reweti is holding Poi in his hands. The interview then begins.

    English

    Māori

    Our highly talented guest, Reweti Elliot, we are fortunate and truly honoured that you have agreed to participate in this interview, to discuss the topic of the day which is Te Ao Haka. Therefore my friend, greetings to you, indeed it’s only right that we acknowledge you. Please explain to everyone who you are and where you are from.

    Nō mātau te maringanui, nō mātau te hōnore, kua whai wāhi nei, e te iho pūmanawa, e kiia nei ko Reweti Elliot, i waenganui i a mātau. Ki te kōrero mō te kaupapa e kiia nei ko Te Ao Haka. Nō reira e hoa tēnei rā te mihi atu ki a koe, oti noa ka tika kia mihia e koe ki te hunga nei, ko wai koe? Nō hea koe?

    Thank you. My name is Reweti and I’m from Te Teko. Putauaki is the mountain, Rangitaiki is the river, Ngāti Awa is the tribe and Mataatua is the canoe.

    Tēnā koutou ko Reweti tōku ingoa, nō Te Teko ahau. Ko Putauaki te maunga, Rangitaiki te awa, Ngāti Awa te iwi, Mataatua te waka.

    Thank you very much. Now firstly, let’s get right into it. what we want to do right now, Reweti, is go right back into your memory lane. Tena, take us back to your earliest memories in your Ao Haka.

    Tēnā rawa atu koe. Ināianei me ruku nei tāua tahi, nō reira Ko te mahi ināianei Reweti, kia waihape anō ki ō mahara. Let’s, kia hoki anō ki ō maharatanga tuatahi mō tō Ao Haka.

    I think one of the pivotal points in my life and my passion for Haka was in 1983 when the Polynesian festival was on TV and I saw Te Rōpū Manutaki. I watched Te Rōpū Manutaki at that time and they did waiata-ā-ringa called “Mīhini Ātea” and that is what captured my attention on my... Or that's what started my journey on Haka. And I think back then when Space Invaders was a new and innovative thing at the time, and I could relate to that waiata, because I was nine at the time, so I was like, "Oh geez, they're doing exactly what I go to the spacey parlor for." And we had...

    E whakapono ana au ko tētahi o ngā āhuatanga motuhake o taku oranga, o taku ngākau whiwhita ki te Haka, e hoki ana ki te tau 1983, ki te wā i whakapāohotia te Polynesian Festival ki te pouaka whakaata, ā, i kite au i Te Rōpū Manutaki. I mātaki au i Te Rōpū Manutaki i taua wā, ā, i waiatahia e rātou te waiata e mōhiotia ana ko “Mīhini Ātea”. Waihoki, i titia taua waiata ki taku ngākau. Tērā pea nā tēnā, i tīmata au i taku haerenga o Haka. Ki taku mahara, ko Space Invaders te kēmu hou o te wā, nā reira i whai pānga au ki taua waiata. E iwa tau taku pakeke i taua wā, nā i whakaaro ake au, “E hika, kei te mahi rātou i tāku e mahi nei ki te whare mīhini ātea.” Ā, i a mātou…

    So it became relevant, hey? Something relevant.

    Nā reira, i whai pānga, nē? He kaupapa e whai pānga ana.

    Absolutely. So it started back then, and then they did their poi “Te Pūāwaitanga” and it was at that moment that I didn't know what poi was, I didn't know what they were doing. I actually didn't know what Haka was,  but it was then that you know everytime I saw my kaumatua went to the marae and they were doing what I seen on TV, I wanted to be apart of that I wanted that in my life, however, Ngati Awa being Ngati Awa, none of their queer do the poi that much. It's not a dominant feature within our Haka, our Whare Tāpere so I was introduced to poi by one of my aunties who worked at Kawerau Kōhanga Reo but she was doing them for the tamariki, and then I asked her what those were, and so when she told me,

    that's where my poi journey came, I would listen to groups like Te Waka Huia, Te Rautahi, Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato. These were the top groups at those times and I would emulate everything that I had seen on videos at the time.

    Āe mārika. Otirā, ki reira tīmata ai, nāwai ka mahia tā rātou poi, a “Te Pūāwaitanga”. I taua wā tonu i mārama au kāore aku mōhiotanga mō te poi, mō tā rātou mahi, ā, mō te haka hoki.  Engari i taua wā, ka kite ana au i aku kaumātua e haere ana ki te marae, e mahi ana i ngā mahi i kitea ki te pouaka whakaata, i manako nui au kia whai wāhi atu au ki taua ao. I hiahia au kia noho mai ērā taonga ki taku ao, heoi anō, ko Ngāti Awa tonu a Ngāti Awa, kua kore ngā kuia e kaha poi. Ehara te poi i te pekanga matua o tō mātou haka, o tō mātou Whare Tapere. Nā reira na tētahi o aku whaea kēkē i Te Kōhanga Reo O Kawerau te poi i whakaako tuatahi mai ki a au. I te hanga poi ia mā ngā tamariki, kātahi ka pātai atu au, he aha ērā? Nā whākī mai ia, nā reira ki reira taketake mai ai taku ao poi. Ka whakarongo au ki ngā kapa pērā i Te Waka Huia, i Te Rautahi, i Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato. Koinei ngā kapa toa i aua rā, ā, ka kākā nei taku ako i ngā mea i kitea ki ngā ataata i aua rā.

     

     

     

    It captivated me and it drew me in and I became part or entrapped by that lure that Haka has. And in my whare haka, the dominating theme in my whare haka is poi. So I've worked with poi for over 40 years now, and that's where my journey started.

    I manawareka ki a au, i tō atu i a au, ā, i mauheretia au e ngā poapoatanga o te haka. I tōku whare haka, ko te poi te tāhūhū o taku whare haka. Nā reira, neke atu i te 40 tau au e mahi ana me te poi, ā, ki reira tīmata ai taku haerenga.

    Let's travel on your Haka journey. Where did it take you?

    Tēnā, kia haere tahi tātou me tō Ao Haka. I kawea koe ki hea?

    So my Haka journey led me to a group in Waikato called Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato.

    Nā reira, nā taku ao haka au i kawe atu ki tētahi kapa i Waikato e mōhiotia ana ko Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato.

    Okay. Right.

    Ka pai.

    In Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato, at that time the kaiako was Tīmoti Kāretu, so. the main concept back then was the language, it wasn’t haka, it was the language. The intonation, the dialect and the grammar. So, that was the main concept back then, and now as well. And how I was introduced to Tīmoti Kāretu was... I wasn't introduced, he actually introduced himself. So i te parakatihi mātau, we were practising for the 1995 regionals and it was my first year at uni.

    I Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato, ko Tīmoti Kāretu te kaiako i taua wā. Nā reira, ko te aronga nui i taua wā ko te reo, kaua ko te haka, ko te reo. Me te whakahua, me te mita, me te whakatakotoranga o te kupu, nō reira koirā te kaupapa matua i taua wā, me tēnei wā tonu. Ā, i tūtaki tuatahi au ki a Tīmoti….kīhai au i mihi atu ki a ia, engari i mihi mai ia ki a au. Nā reira, we were practising, i te whakawai mātou mō te whakataetae ā-rohe i te tau 1995, ā, ko taku tau tuatahi tēnā ki te whare wānanga

    Ah, yes.

    Ā, āe.

    And I thought, oh, jump in, and I jumped in and he just stopped practice and he said, “Kāti, kāti", and everyone stood there while I was in line, and he said, "Hoi koe, nōhea koe?” and I was like, "Oh my God, he's pointing to me." I said, "Oh nō Te Teko” and he goes, "Oh, no wonder." That was my introduction to Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato. But that elderly man is like that and I have a lot of respect for him. So I was a performer for the Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato right until it was laid to rest or put to sleep.

    I toko ake te whakaaro i a au, e, me kuhu atu. Waihoki i kuhu atu au, ka whakatārewatia te whakaharatau, ka kī atu ia, “Stop, stop”. Ka tū tekoteko te katoa. Nōku i te rārangi kapa, ka kī mai ia, “Hey you, where are you from?” Ka whakahoki au, “Ā, nō Te Teko”. Ka whakahoki mai ia, “Ā, nā whai anō”. Koinā taku whakatakinga tuatahi ki Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato. Engari he pērā tonu tērā koroua, nui taku aroha ki aia Nā reira, he kaihaka au mō Te Whare Wānanga tae noa ki tana whakamoenga.

    Awesome.  

    Te mīharo hoki.

    So just for doing poi, poi has taken me to Italy where we did a month tour, and we started in Rome and we travelled all the way down to Sicily, and I was fortunate enough to get there, because the reason why I was on there was only five seconds of poi, and that was me, done. 

     

    So every performance we had, I think we had 15 performances, I just needed to be on stage for the end of the poi because no one knew how to do four poi at the time and I was the only one, so that's how I got in that group. 

     

    Then we went to Thailand and we did eight performances in Thailand. Yeah. I've gone to a lot of places just for Haka, specifically poi, and we are looking at going to Mexico next year for a month, and on the books right now, Te pou o Mangatāwhiri is currently looking at performing at Washington DC in September. So yeah, Haka takes you to many places that you'd never ever thought of that you would go to.

    Nā reira, mō te taha ki te mahi poi, kua kawea au e te poi ki Itāria. Kotahi marama mātou e tipi haere ana, ā, tīmata ai ki Rōma. Ka mutu i pōkai i te whenua tae noa atu ki te Tonga, ki Hīhiri. Waihoki waimarie ana au kia tae atu ki reira nā te mea ko te poi te take i haere atu au, ahakoa rima hēkona noa iho te roa, ā, ko au tēnā, ka kēhi. 

     

    Nā reira, ki ia whakangahautanga, tōna 15 ngā whakangahautanga, ko tāku noa, ko te tū ki te atamira tae noa ki te mutunga o te poi i te korenga o tētahi i mōhio ki te poi takiwhā. I taua wā, ko au anake i mōhio, nā reira koinā te take i whai wāhi atu au ki te kapa. 

     

    Kātahi ka haere mātou ki Tairana, ā, e waru ngā whakangahautanga ki Tairana. Āe. Kua tae atu au ki ngā whenua huhua noa, ā, ko te haka te take, mātua rā ko te poi. E whakarite ana kia haere atu ki Mehiko ā tērā tau mō tētahi marama. I tēnei wā tonu, e whakarite ana a Te Pou o Mangatāwhiri kia haere atu ki Wahingitanga ā te marama o Hepetema. Nā reira āe, mā te haka koe e kawe atu ki ngā wāhi huhua noa, ki ngā wāhi kīhai koe i whakapono ka taetae atu.

    Kia Ora.. And so, I'm seeing a very big influence, which as you said, is your whare haka, of poi. So I want you to speak to me and to our ākonga about what it takes, not only to perform a poi, but to even to create a poi.

    Thank you. Nā reira, e kite ana au i te awenga nui, ki ō ake kupu, ko tō whare haka, o te poi.Tēnā kōrero mai ki a au, ki ā tātou ākonga mō ngā pūkenga e pīrangitia ana, kaua ko ngā pūkenga whakaatu poi anake, engari ko ngā pūkenga waihanga poi anō hoki.

    So one thing that I see predominantly when I teach poi is how our rangatahi are fast to catch actions and catch onto poi, but there's always a pro with every con or a con with every pro. If you teach our tamariki quick pois, fast pois, catchy pois, one of the things that you lose inside of there is the control of poi-ing, and what I mean about the control is, if you were to teach a three quarter poi, slow poi, it would be quite difficult for any child to execute simply because they're used to that fast motion, body movement, and so for me, as a creator and as a male creator tuatahi rā, I've got to remember when I create poi, I am not performing it, I am performing it for wahine.

    Nā, ko tētahi mea e kaha kite ana i a au e whakaako ana i te poi ki ā tātou rangatahi, ko tā rātou tere mau i ngā ā-ringa me te poi. Heoi anō, ka haere takirua te kore painga me te painga, te painga me te kore painga rānei. Ki te whakaako koe i ngā poi tere nei te manawataki me te papatu, i ngā poi rorotu nei te hanga, ko te mōhio ki te āta whakamahi i te poi tētahi āhuatanga ka ngaro. Ko tāku e kōrero nei mō te taha ki te mōhio ki te āta whakamahi i te poi, ki te whakaako koe i tetahi poi toru hau whā, i tētahi poi āhua pōturi nei te manawataki, he uaua rawa mā ngā tamariki ki te whakatinana nā te mea kua waia rātou ki ngā poi tere nei te manawataki, ki ngā nekehanga ā-tinana hoki. Nā reira, mōku ake, i a au ka noho mai hei kaihanga, hei kaihanga tāne hoki, firstly, i a au ka waihanga poi, e tika ana kia maumahara au kāore au i te whakaatu i te poi, kei te whakaatu atu mā ngā wāhine.

    I'm creating it for 20 wahine and so that means that every single action that I do or I create, I need to know that 20 of those women can execute that action and not stay on that action for three months of a Matatini journey just practising one action for a split second. So my creativity comes from my environment, it comes from the children that I teach.

    Kei te waihanga au mā ngā wāhine 20, me mātua mōhio au ka taea e ia wahine ngā ā-ringa ka hangaia e au te whakatutuki, a, kia kaua rātou e noho noa ki te ā-ringa kotahi mō ngā marama e toru o te haerenga ki Te Matatini. Nā reira ko te whakawai i tētahi ā-ringa mō tētahi wā poto noa iho. Nā, ka ahu mai taku auahatanga i taku taiao, ka ahu mai i ngā tamariki ka whakaakona e au.

    Yes.

    Āe

    It comes from (story) being a storyteller, a good storyteller, and there's... I see different levels of poi creators. I, myself, have been taught and influenced by Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato therefore, my style of poi, I story tell and I use the words to guide the vision. You have other creators... They use patterns and sequences.

    Taketake mai i te kōrero pūrākau, i te kōrero pūrākau pai, ā,...ka kite au i ngā kaiwaihanga poi nō ngā taumata rerekē. I whakaakona au, i whakaawetia au e Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato nā reira, ko te kōrero pūrākau taku tāera poi, ka tīkina atu ko ngā kupu hei ārahi i te moemoeā. He rerekē ngā kaiwaihanga….Ka whakamahi rātou i te tauira me te raupapatanga.

    Sequences. Yes.

    Āe, ko te raupapatanga.

    Usually, it's an eight beat. Then you have cut and paste creators, and those creators which I have actually worked with to the... Oh, Te Waka Huia 1996 action from that line and put that in, and then we'll do Whāngāra from that line, that year, and put the... And then create a poi that way. 

     

     

     

    And then you have the storytellers, and I would assume that my style was a storyteller, but as a male, because there are a lot of male creators out there, and a lot of our male can be quite flamboyant. What we need to remember as males who create is that we are creating for our wahine,  not for ourselves, and it’s not to glorify an individual so your actions are seen out there. 

    Tōnā tikanga he takiwaru te ūngeri. Kātahi, ko ngā momo kaiwaihanga ka tōai noa i ngā ā-ringa poi a kaiwahanga kē, ā, kua mahi tahi au me tērā momo…Nā, ka tīkina atu te ā-ringa poi nō tētahi rārangi o te waiata a Te Waka Huia nō te tau 1996, ka meatia ki konei…ā, ka tīkina atu tētahi nā Whāngāra, nō taua rārangi, nō taua tau, ka meatia… Nāwai ka hanga poi mā te whai i taua tukanga.

     

    Ā, ko ngā kaiwaihanga kōrero pūrākau hoki tērā, ā, e whakapae ana au ko te kōrero pūrākau taku tāera. Engari hei tāne, i te mea tokomaha tonu ngā kaiwaihanga tāne, ā, tokomaha hoki ngā tāne he whakameremere te āhua.

    Engari me maumahara tonu mātou te hunga tāne e waihanga ana, e waihanga ana mātou i ngā poi mā ngā wāhine, kaua mā mātou ake, ā, kia kaua e whakamanamana i te takitahi kia puta ai ō ā-ringa poi ki te ao.

    Well done.

    Tau kē.

    For the ladies that I've taught, I've just got to remember, who's performing the poi? What story do you want me to depict? And with the levels, different levels or variant levels in the wahine's abilities, and I heard a cool quote, you're only as strong as your weakest performer, so...

    Mō ngā wāhine kua whakaakona e au, me mauhara au, ko wai kei te whakaatu i te poi? He aha te pūrākau e pīrangitia ana kia whakaahuatia? Ka mutu, mō te taha ki ngā taumata rerekē, ki ngā pūkenga poi a ngā wāhine, waihoki i rangona e au tētahi whakataukī, hē o te kotahi nō te katoa, nā reira…

    Firm believer of that.

    E whakapono mārika ana au ki tēnā.

    Yeah. How I create is around who I work with.

    Āe. Kei te āhua tonu o taku tira mahi te āhua o taku waihanga.

    you must have been inspired or seen some amazing wahine and tāne rānei. Who and why?

    Kāore e kore kua whakaweawetia koe e ētahi wāhine mīharo, e ētahi tāne hoki. Ko wai rātou, ā, he aha ai?

    My biggest influence has been Te Aroha Paenga former kaitātaki wahine of Te Roopū Manutaki. So I was drawn to her style. I was drawn to Te roopū Manautaki style. And everything that I... In my poi mind, everything that I know, I draw upon everything that I wasn't taught, that I copied of TV. Then I went to Auckland for a holiday and I asked my uncle if he could take me to Hoani Waititi Marae, and in 1992, I was fortunate enough to have a video camera on me, and Peter Sharples, at that time, performed every single poi of Te Roopū Manutaki for their practice and I've got it on video. Since then, I've learned every single poi of Te Roopū Manutaki and I did so right up until 2005. Great influence on my life. Other people have influenced me, are Ngamoni Huata but I'm not being biassed. She's ex Whare Wānanga o Waikato kaihaka and she created the actions for “Rongomai” that won in 1986, so nā Ngamoni ērā, and those have been my main two biggest influences in my style and the way I do poi.

    Ko Te Aroha Paenga, te kaitātaki o mua o Te Rōpū Manutaki taku whakaaweawe nui. I rata pai au ki tana tāera. I rata pai au ki te tāera a Te Rōpū Manutaki. Ka mutu, katoa ngā mahi i…

    I taku hinengaro poi, katoa tāku e mōhio nei, i ahu mai i ngā āhuatanga kāore i ākona mai ki a au, i ahu mai i te pouaka whakaata. Kātahi, ka haere atu au ki Tāmaki Makaurau hararei ai, ā, i uia taku matua kēkē kia haria au ki Te Marae o Hoani Waititi. I te tau 1992, waimarie ana au i a au tētahi kāmera hopu ataata, ā, i taua wā i tū a Peter Sharples ki te whakaatu atu i ia poi a Te Rōpū Manutaki i tā rātou whakawai, ka mutu kei taku ataata tēnā. Nō taua wā, kua ako au i ia poi a Te Rōpū Manutaki, ā, i pērā te ako tae noa atu ki te tau 2005. He awenga nui ki a au. He hunga anō kua whakaaweawe i a au pērā i a Ngamoni Huata. Kāore au i te karutahi. He kaihaka o mua ia nō Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato, ā, nānā ngā ā-ringa poi o “Rongomai” i hanga, ko te poi whakaihuwaka i te tau 1986. Those actions were created by Ngāmoni. Ā, ko rāua tahi ngā whakaawenga matua i taku tāera me te āhua o taku mahi i te poi.

    Ka pai. And then, so poi has a big role in your whare haka. What kind of words of guidance would you give them when going into a creative space?

    That’s great. Tēnā, he wāhanga nui tō te poi ki tō whare haka? He aha āu kupu ārahi ka tukuna atu i a koe ka kuhu atu ki tō whare auaha?

    I think that creativity is instilled in us as Māori. It's just second nature for us, and we create clicks or groups, and we create songs. For me, the main thing is, remember who you are creating for.

    E whakapono ana au kua whakatōngia taua auahatanga ki roto i a tātou te Māori. Kua tangata whenua ki roto i a tātou, ā, ka waihanga rōpū, ka waihanga waiata. Mōku ake, ko te maumahara mā wai te waiata.

    Right.

    Tautoko.

    And remember why you are creating

    Waihoki me maumahara he aha te take e waihangatia ana.

    Levels of varying abilities. So the comparisons of single poi to... Single short to double short etc, please discuss the comparisons

    Ko ngā taumata ako rerekē. Nā, ko te whakatauritenga o te poi poto takitahi…me te poi poto takirua. aha atu aha rānei, kōrero mai mō ēnā tūāhuatanga

    I think double short comes to the fore quite regularly, and you don't see much single short poi. 

     

    It's obvious with double short, there's a lot of other things that you can do in regards to creative space, and so you can... 

     

    I've seen groups throw their poi up in the air. I've seen groups do some amazing actions which you can't do with single poi, however, what I do, and I've done it in every single poi that I've created for the Matatini stages. I have a signature on poi, and so for our rangatahi who are in that creative space, mark your work. 

     

    Like everything else, like a kaitā marks his work. There's a specific syncopated beat in there that's run through all the years, through all those teams, and that's my mark or my signature mark on that poi.

    Ki aku nei whakaaro, he rite tonu te kite atu i te poi poto takirua, ā, kāore e kaha kitea te poi poto takitahi.

     

    Mō te taha ki te poi poto takirua, mārama ana te kite he maha noa ngā āhuatanga e taea ana mō te taha ki auahatanga, nā e taea ana te….

     

    Kua kite au i ngā kapa ka whiu atu i ngā poi ki te rangi. Kua kite au i ngā kapa e mahi ana i ngā ā-ringa poi mīharo e kore rawa e taea e te poi poto te whakatutuki. Engari, ko tāku noa, ā, kua pēnei mō ia poi kua waihangatia e au mō te atamira o te Matatini. Kua waitohua aku poi, nā ko ngā rangatahi kei tēnei auahatanga, whakahaumarutia ō mahi.

     

    Pērā i ngā āhuatanga katoa o te ao, pērā i tā te kaitā whakahaumaru i āna mahi. He momo taki aruaru kua rangona i ngā tau kua pahure nei, puta noa i aua kapa katoa, ka mutu koinā taku waitohu, ko taku waitohu i tērā poi.

     

    And would you encourage our tamariki to be able to do that within their creative spaces?

    Nā, ka akiaki koe i ā tātou tamariki, kia āhei rātou te mahi pērā i ō rātou ake ao auaha?

    Absolutely, hey. So people know that it's your work and people know that it's your mahi, because your mahi's precious, and so one of the things that I do or that I encourage any rangatahi to do is, as Maori, and so for our rangatahi, any rangatahi that come into that creative space, mark your work, put your signature on it and get it out there and let everyone know that that is your piece of work and that is your creativity coming through.

    Āe mārika, nā. Kia mōhio ai te marea nāu te mahi, ā, ka mōhio rātou nāu te mahi nā te mea he taonga tō mahi. Waihoki ko tāku e mahi nei, he akiaki nei i ngā rangatahi, kia tū hei Māori, mō ngā rangatahi, ahakoa ko wai te rangatahi ka kuhu atu ki taua ao auaha, waitohua ō mahi, tāmokotia, ā, whakaputaina, whakamōhiotia atu te ao nāu te mahi, ā, ko tō auahatanga tēnā e whakaputaina ana.

    Thank you. I want to return to your home, Te Teko, in Ngāti Awa. And discuss all aspects of Te Ao Haka, those which are thriving and being revitalised within Ngāti Awa. Do you have a strategy? Does the tribe have a strategy to uplift these treasures, these treasures of Te Ao Haka as a livelihood for Ngāti Awa?

    Kia Ora, e hiahia nei au te hoki atu ki tō kāinga, ki roto i a Ngāti Awa, Te Teko. Me ngā āhuatanga o te ao haka, e ora nei, te whakarauora kē i roto i a Ngāti Awa. He rautaki tāu, he rautaki tā te iwi, hei hiki hei hāpai i tēnei taonga, i ngā taonga o te ao haka hei oranga mō Ngāti Awa?

    Indeed, we have a strategy Currently, I'm the chairman Ngāti Awa Te Toki. So there was a group of 14 of us that got together in 2013 and we wanted to do something for Ngāti Awa. From that little Hui, we had another Hui and we went to Te Rūnanga o Ngāti Awa, Awanuiārangi and asked if they would support us in establishing a group where our people from Ngāti Awa and our marae from Ngāti Awa perform in whakataetae festival, a ngahau festival, a festival for our tamariki, and it also brings our whānau back home. But, the overarching goal of Te Toki is the language. It’s the Ngāti Awa dialect. Secondly, it’s to return the family treasures to our local people. Thirdly, for all our people and descendants of each sub-tribe to return to their own marae.

    Āe, kei a tātau tētahi rautaki. I tēnei wā, ko au te tiamana o Ngāti Awa Te Toki. Nā reira, 14 mātou i whakakotahi i te tau 2013, ā, i hiahia mātou ki te mahi i tētahi mahi mā Ngāti Awa. Mai i taua hui iti nei, i hui anō, ā, i haere atu mātou ki Te Rūnanga o Ngāti Awa, ki Awanuiārangi ki te tono atu mehemea ka tautoko rātou i a mātou ki te whakatū i tētahi ohu e āhei ai ngā uri o Ngāti Awa me ō mātou marae o Ngāti Awa ki te tū ki tētahi ahurei whakataetae, ki tētahi ahurei ngahau, ki tētahi ahurei mā ā tātou tamariki. Waihoki, he kaupapa hei tō mai i ngā whānau ki te kāinga. Engari ko te kaupapa matua o Te Toki, ko te reo. Ko te reo o Ngāti Awa ake. Tuarua mai ko te whakahokia mai o ngā taonga a ngā whānau ki te haukāinga. Tuatoru kia huia mai ngā tāngata, ngā uri o tēnā hapu o tēnā hapu ki tō rātau marae ake.

    That’s due to me knowing that there are some prized possessions within Ngāti Awa. Let’s take Kiri Whakaangi as an example and the poi, “Haere atu, haere atu ki te taki poipoi”, that she composed. What I’m getting at, kei te ahu mātou, kei te tika tā mātou rautaki mā Te Toki e puāwai mai ai he Kiri Whakaangi anō, within Ngāti Awa who will compose, who will revitalise the treasures of our old people?

    I runga i te mea nei kei te mōhio au ki ētahi taonga i roto i a Ngāti Awa. Ka hoki atu ki a Kiriwhakaangi, me tētahi poi nānā i tito, “Haere atu, haere atu ki te taki poipoi”. Ko tāku, are we heading in a direction or is our rautaki for Te Toki enough that we are going to get more Kiriwhakaangi, i roto i a Ngāti Awa hei tito ake, hei whakaora anō i ngā taonga a kui mā, a koro mā?

    I think Te Toki is in a good space where our strategy is a succession plan, and so in our judging space, in our committee space, in our composition space and our history space, we have a rangatahi representative, and that rangatahi representative can be either from your hapu. 

     

    The Marae around here delegate somebody to be that person, and so there's an opportunity for all are our rangatahi to jump on and learn what it means to be kaiwhakawā. We hold wānanga around that and learn about a specific kaupapa. So we hold wānanga around poi, waiata-ā-ringa, haka, mōteatea, what you're looking for, what you are judging, and then it then becomes more than just an item, it gives it meaning, and it's, I think, for me, it gives the rangatahi, it opens their eyes to a whole different world of Haka.

    E whakapono ana au kei te huarahi tika a Te Toki, ā, he mahere tauatanga tā mātou rautaki. Nā reira ka whai wāhi atu tētahi māngai rangatahi ki tō mātou whaitua whakawā, whaitua komiti, whaitua titonga, whaitua hītori anō hoki, ka mutu, he rangatahi tēnei nō te hapū. 

     

    Mā te marae i konei taua tangata e kopou, nā reira e tuwhera ana tēnei ki ā mātou rangatahi katoa, kia kuhu mai ki te ako i ngā āhuatanga o te kaiwhakawā. Ka whakarite wānanga mātou e pā ana ki tērā, ka ākona tētahi kaupapa. Nā, ka whakarite wānanga poi, waiata ā-ringa, haka, mōteatea, he aha tāu e kimi nei, he aha tāu e whakawā nei, ā, nāwai kua nui ake i tētahi waiata noa, he mana tōna. Mōku ake, kia tuwhera te ngākau o ngā rangatahi ki tēnei ao rerekē o te haka.

    And it's good that we want to do that, we want to open their eyes to these spaces. Ko tāku, are we heading in a direction or is our rautaki for Te Toki enough that we are going to get more Kiriwhakaangi, i roto i a Ngāti Awa hei tito ake, hei whakaora anō i ngā taonga a kui mā, a koro mā?

     

     

    So what would you personally, mēnā he kaiwhakawā koe, be looking for when judging poi?

    He āhuatanga pai tēnā, kia whai i taua āhuatanga, ināhoki koinā te whāinga, kia tuwhera ō rātou ngākau ki ēnei whaitua. Kia kite nei koutou o Ngati Awa e pēra ana. Tēna me rukuhia ki tēna wāhanga e kīia nei ko te kaiwhakawā. I runga i te mea nei kei te mōhio au ki ētahi taonga i roto i a Ngāti Awa. Ka hoki atu ki a Kiriwhakaangi, me tētahi poi nānā i tito, “Haere atu, haere atu ki te taki poipoi”.

     

    Nā reira, mōu ake, if you were a judge, he aha tāu ka kimi i te poi?

    Synchronicity isn't an issue for me. I look at your script and I look at the story that you are telling on stage. If they don't match each other, then your storytelling isn't as wonderful as your scripts, but a lot of our kaiwhakawā and a lot of the items now are becoming more visual, and so I believe that kaiwhakawā in Matatini, they have the scripts being marked, and then they separately have the poi being marked, which gives an indication that... For me, myself, I'd look at both, so that's stopped that side, which is good.

    Ehara te tukutahi i tētahi take nui mōku. Ka tirohia ō kupu, ka mātaki atu i te pūrākau e whakaatuhia ana e koe ki te atamira. Ki te kore ēnei e taurite, kua kore tō pūrākau e mīharo pērā rawa i ō kupu. Engari tokomaha ngā kaiwhakawā, kāore e ārikarika ngā waiata e noho mai ana hei kai mā te kanohi. I Te Matatini, ko tāku e whakapae nei, ka whakawāngia ngā kupu e tētahi kaiwhakawā, ā, he kaiwhakawā anō hei whakawā i te poi. He tohu tērā e…. Mōku ake, ka tirohia e au ngā taha e rua. Nā reira, kua aukatingia tērā. He pai tonu.

    Yes.

    Āe.

    But here in Ngāti Awa, we are still in the Olympic system, 

     

    And so what we look at it,

    I’ve encouraged our kaiwhakawā instead of three people looking at three (different) same things. I say you can judge the body movements, I will judge the poi imovements and you can judge those things that we miss

     

     

    Rather than say, "Oh, look, she made a mistake." Yeah, she made a mistake, yeah, and we're judging the same person. So I split that up into three different categories, and yeah, that's how we judge here.

    Engari i konei, i Ngāti Awa, kei te whai tonu mātou i te pūnaha Orimipia, 

     

     

    Ko tā mātou e kimi nei, kua whakatenatena au i ō mātou kaiwhakawā ki te kanohi hōmiro atu ki ngā āhuatanga rerekē, ka mahue te hōmiro atu ki te āhuatanga kotahi. Ka kī atu au, māu te tinana, te taha tinana, māku te taha poi and māu e kimi ana you know i ngā mea kāore māua i te kite.

     

    Ka mahue te kī, “E, titiro atu, kua hapa ia”. Āe, i hapa ia, āe, ā, kei te whakawāngia te tangata kotahi e mātou. Nā reira, ka whakawehea tērā e au ki ngā wāhanga e toru. Āe, koinā te tikanga whakawā i konei.

    And it works well?

    Kei te pai tēnā?

    It works well here.

    Āe, kei te pai tēnā i konei.

     that’s good, there is a strategy in place, so that the poi may continue to live on as a treasure for our youth. Now, let’s get straight into this next part, let’s discuss composers. If someone is composing, if one of our youth is composing a song or a poi, do you have any words of encouragement for them?

    ka pai, kei reira tonu he rautaki, hei oranga mō te poi, mō te taonga, anō hoki mō ngā rangatahi. Me kauruku tāua ki tēnei wāhanga e kiia nei ko te kaitito. Mēnā e titoa e tētahi, e ētahi o ā tātau rangatahi i ētahi, i tētahi waiata, poi rānei, he kupu akiaki tāu ki a rātau? Nā

     

    Go for it! Get in there! The positive outcome of that is that the language is heard, the language is at the forefront. Without the language, there is no kapa haka. Therefore give it everything, compose songs so that we may hear it, compose songs so that the tongue may taste its flavour and the delightfulness of our Māori language.

     

    That’s one of the positives of that group Maimoa, yes. While we were in Italy,  that's all we listened to, and then our Panama whānau who were part of the performances started listening to Maimoa and now Maimoa is over in Panama, and so we've got to dub them, call the Pana Māoris. They're avid listeners of te reo Maori, not just Maimoa but koinā te, that's what I love about our music, is music is universal, so it doesn't matter what language you speak, we all are drawn into that scenario of music.

    Karawhiua! Karawhiua. Ko te painga o tēra ka rangona e tātau i te reo, ko te reo te kaupapa matua. Mei kore ake ko te reo, kua kore te kapa haka. Nō reira karawhiua, titohia ngā waiata kia rongona te taringa, titohia ngā waiata kia rongo ai te ārero i tōnā reka. Te reka o tō tātau reo Māori.

    .

     

     

    Koirā te painga o Maimoa, tērā kapa, āe. I a mātau i Ītāria,, he rite tonu tā mātou whakarongo atu ki a rātou, ā, i tīmata tō mātou whānau Panama ki te whakarongo atu ki a Maimoa, he whānau tēnā i whai wāhi atu ki te whakangahau, ā, kei Panama a Maimoa ināianei. Nā reira, nā mātou rātou i tapa ki te ingoa ‘Pana Māoris’. He hunga e ngākaunui ana ki te whakarongo atu ki te reo Māori, kaua ko Maimoa anake, nā reira koinā tētahi painga o ā tātou waiata puoro. Kua hōrapa te waiata puoro i te ao, nā reira ahakoa te reo ka kōrerotia e koe, he hononga tō tātou katoa ki te waiata puoro.

     

     

    When teaching poi, what kind of tips, tricks, strategies, don't, dos, do you have?

    Nōu ka whakaako i te poi, he aha ngā momo kupu āwhina, ngā kurahuna, ngā rautaki, ngā kore painga, ngā painga kei a koe?

    For me, is for women, especially women, the first thing I said when you ask someone to do kapa haka, they're like, "Oh, I don't know how to do the poi." So they've put a mind block up already, and so when you do that and you put a mind block up, you actually... You are setting yourself back from actually advancing. I don't know if this is going to get edited out, but I have special needs classes and I call them the special needs because they are.

    Mōku ake, ko ngā wāhine, mātua rā ko ngā wāhine, ko te whakautu tuatahi a te tangata inā pātai atu ki a ia kia kuhu mai ki te kapa haka ko tēnei, “Kāore au i te mōhio ki te poi”. Nā reira, kua whakatū taero kē, ā, ka pērā ana te tangata, he taero ā-hinengaro tēnā, ko tāu nā…. Ko koe tonu tōu ake kaipatu. Kāore au i te mōhio mehemea ka mukua ēnei kōrero, engari he karaehe mate hauā tōku, ā, ka karangahia rātou he mate hauā nā te mea e pērā ana.

    Right.

    Ka pai.

    That need extra awhi and I break the action down, so that it's not broken, but I simplify the action. And some people learn by beats, some people learn by numbers and some people learn by sections, I can tell from experience now who learns by numbers, who learns by beats and who learns in sections. So when somebody I'm teaching a poi, and I'll say, "It's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6." They look at me blank, then I'll go, "Oh, okay. So it's... Here's the beat." And they'll click onto that. So there's different strategies that I use. With primary sector, with secondary sector, and with adults who are all at different levels, we just make a space where everyone feels comfortable to learn and embrace their taonga. And a poi is a taonga that should be celebrated.

    Me kaha āwhina i a rātou, ā, ka wetewetehia te ā-ringa poi, kia kore ai e whati, engari ka whakamāmāhia te ā-ringa poi. Ka ako ētahi mā te papatu, ka ako ētahi mā ngā tau, ā, ka ako mā te whakawehe ki ngā wāhanga. Nā aku pūkenga i taea ai e au te tohu ko wai te hunga ako mā ngā tau, ko wai te hunga ka ako mā te papatu, ā, ko wai te hunga ka ako mā te whakawehe ki ngā wāhanga. Nā reira, ka whakaako ana au i te poi, ka kī atu au, “Ko te 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6”. Ka tiro pōkīkī mai ki a au. Kātahi au ka kī atu, “Nā, ka pai. Nā reira, ….anei te papatu”. Nāwai rā, ka mau. Nā reira ka whakamahia e au ngā rautaki rerekē. Ahakoa kura tuatahi mai, kura tuarua mai, pakeke mai, kei ngā taumata rerekē rātou katoa, ka ngana ki te whakarite whare e hāneanea ai te katoa ki te ako, ki te kauawhi i tā rātou taonga. Ka mutu, he taonga te poi me whakanui ka tika.

    What have you learned or what experience have you gained to where you are, I won't do that again?

    He aha tāu i ako ai, he aha rānei ngā wheako kua mau i a koe, kia taea ai e koe te whakatau e kore koe e pērā anō?

    I couldn't think of a few scenarios. So there's people that I can work with and there's people that I can't, and when you have a group of very talented people, the expectation by everyone is like, they're going to come out with something amazing, and when you put yourself in a space with three amazing artists, sometimes the outcome's not what's expected. I won't work with people who are more competitive in the space that we create in. So what I mean by that is, I don't like that action, I can do a better one, and that's not creating. The whole idea of creating is to forge your way forward. And I won't create with my Nan’s. I'll just say that, my Nan’s. We don't forge anyway forward with my Nan’s. And I suppose that's it. Those are the only spaces that I won't create in.

    He uaua ki te whakawhāiti ki ētahi tauira. Nā reira, tērā te momo e taea ana e au te mahi tahi ki a rātou, ā, he hunga anō e kore e taea te mahi tahi. Nā reira, mehemea he tira iho pūmanawa tōu, ko te kawatau a te katoa, kia hua mai tētahi mea mīharo, ā, ki te kuhu atu koe ki tētahi takiwā me ngā ringatoi whakamīharo, he wā anō tōna e kore koe e whakatutuki i tāu i pīrangi ai. E kore au e mahi tahi ki te hunga he kaha nei tana āhuatanga whakataetae i a mātou e mahi ana.

    Ko tāku e kōrero nei, “kāore au i te rata ki taua ā-ringa poi, ka taea e au tētahi mea pai ake te waihanga”, nā reira ehara tēnā i te mahi waihanga. Ko te uho o te waihanga ko te ahu whakamua. Nā, e kore au e waihanga me aku kuia. Ka kī noa au, ko aku kuia. E kore mātou e ahu whakamua me aku kuia. Nā reira, ka mātua i tēnā. E kore au e kuhu atu ki ērā wāhi waihanga ai.

    Ok, so that’s due to experiences. It's from experience that you realised okay I actually gave it a go and that’s the main thing in te ao haka aye,Firsty give it a go if it is successful, great, if it doesn’t work, oh well, move forward. So, let's move forward with our discussions, friend. Let’s talk about the time when you stood as a performer for Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato. What I would really like to do is listen to all the treasures and lessons that you learnt from different role models who guided you during that time

    Ka pai, engari nā te wheako. Nā ēra wheako kua mārama mai koe, Ka pai,  whakamātauhia, ā, koirā te mea nui i te ao haka nē? Ka tahi whakamātauhia, i te tuatahi, mēnā ka riro ka pai, ki te taka, hei aha,. haere tonu. Nō reiraMe haere tonu ngā kōrero nei e te hoa. Me kōrero ake tāua mō ōu wā, i te tū ai koe hei kaihaka mō Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato. Ko taku hiahia kia rongo i ngā kuru pounamu, i ngā whakaakoranga, i tukuna mai e tēnā, e tēnā o ngā iho pūmanawa i arahi i a koe i tērā wā.

    The main tutor at that time was Tīmoti Kāreu, he was the leading expert of Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato. The essence and heart of that group was the Māori language. 

    And then there was Te Rita Papesch, she is one of my ultimate role models. I was under her guidance for three years, she was there when I first arrived.  Her stance and voice was beautiful and elegant.

     

     

     

    Who else was there, there was Tio Harawira as well, they were both the leaders of the group. The group always achieved its goals. 

    I say that because I’m not referring to achieving its goals on the competitive stage, but I’m referring to achieving its goals in regards to the Kīngitanga, Waikato and the university. Those were important themes of that group at that time. My role models are Tīmoti and Ngaringi Kapita, she was the final leader of the group and Te Rita Papesch as well

    Ko te kaiako matua i taua wā ko Tīmoti Kāretu, koia tērā te Pou o Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato. Ko te ngako, ko te manawa o taua kapa rā ko te reo Māori. 

     

    Kātahi ko Te Rita Papesch, koia tētahi o aku tino iho pūmanawa. I noho au i raro i ōna parirau mō ngā tau e toru i reira ia i te wā i tae atu au. Me te ataahua, me te ngāwari o tana tū, o tana reo. Ko wai atu ko Tio Harawira, ko rāua tahi te kaiurungi, te kaiurungi o te waka. I ngā wā katoa i ū pai tērā waka ki uta. 

     

    Engari e pērā ana aku kōrero, kāore i ū i runga i te ātāmira whakataetae nei, engari i tutuki pai i ngā mahi o te Kiingitanga, i ngā mahi o Waikato, i ngā mahi mō te whare wānanga. Aua kaupapa tūturu nei ki tērā kapa i taua wā tonu. Ko aku iho pūmanawa ko Tīmoti, ko Ngaringi Katipa, koia tērā te kaitātaki whakamutunga, ā, me Te Rita Papesch.

     

    Please share with us some of the teachings that they left both you and the group.

    Tēnā homai ētahi kōrero nā rātau i tukuna nei ki a koe, ki te kapa anō hoki.

    Tio would constantly say, for the whole body to speak. That’s what Tio Harawira would always say. In regards to the haka, men, for the whole body to speak, don’t stand like a pole or a soldier. If the whole body speaks, your language is different and that’s the goal. For every performer to be different. So that the audience is able to see your own noble authority.

    Ko Tio i ngā wā katoa, kia kōrero te katoa o te tinana. Koirā te kōrero a Tio Harawira i ngā wā katoa. Mō te wāhanga o te haka, tāne mā kia kōrero te katoa o te tinana kia kaua e tū hei poupou, hei hōia rānei. Mēnā ka kōrero te tinana ka rerekē tō kōrero, ka rerekē tō kōrero, āe koirā e hiahia ana. Kia kaua e ōrite ngā kaihaka katoa. Kia kitea ai te minenga i tō mana rangatira ake.

     

    Awesome, and that was uncle Tio, was there anything else which was handed down to you and the group from aunty Te Rita?

    Rawe, ana ko Papa Tio tērā, he kōrero anō i tuku iho mai e te Whāene e Te Rita, ki a koe, te kapa rānei?

    Yeah. It was a akiaki actually. I almost got dropped. In 1999, I almost got dropped and it was Te Rita that actually came out and, “hey me pēnei me pēnei”.  Gave me these words of encouragement, and because there was three of us fighting for the one spot, and “me pēnei” and she came out and she had a talk to me, and I was so happy because I had two days to fix it, and that's how Whare Wānanga rolls. They don't give you a month, they give you a couple of days, otherwise you're out.

    Āe rā. Ko te akiaki tāna. I tata wairuatoa au. I te tau 1999, i tata wairuatoa, ā, nā Te Rita tonu i kōrero mai ki a au, “E, me pēnei, me pēnei”. I homai i ēra kupu akiaki, ā, nā te mea tokotoru mātou e pakanga ana mō te tūranga kotahi. Ko tāna mai ki au, “Me pēnei”, me taku harikoa hoki i te mea e rua rā te roa ki te whakatika i ērā āhuatanga. He momo tērā nō Te Whare Wānanga. Kua kore rātou e hoatu i te kotahi marama ki te whakatika, engari e rua noa iho ngā rā. Ki te kore e whakatika, kua wairuatoa, kua puta i te kapa.   

    So, she sat down and she told me, and she spoke to me and she talked to me about my whare haka. . That was the amazing thing It was about me. It wasn't about impressing anyone else. It was about me and being pono to my whare haka, and she told me to, , “Don’t try and be like someone else, but be yourself” yeah. And from that kōrero it inspired me to never think that my tū was as important as everyone else's tū, and I made it in the regional team that year, but I got dropped the next year. It was just great It was okay.

    Nā reira, i whakanōhia au, i kōrero mai ia ki a au mō taku whare haka. Koirā te mea rawe. E pā ana ki a au. Kāore i paku aro atu ki te whakawehi i tangata kē. I hāngai pū ki a au, kia pono au ki taku whare haka, ā, ka kī mai ia ki a au, " kaua e tū i te tū o tētahi atu, me tū i tō tū" āe. Ā, ko ērā kōrero i whakaaweawe i a au kia kaua au e whakaaro he rangatira ake taku tū i te tū a tangata kē. Me te aha, i whai wāhi atu au ki te kapa ā-rohe i taua tau, engari i te tau whai muri atu, i wairuatoa. Engari, i pai tonu. kei te pai.

    But all the treasures that she gave will live on forever. E hiahia ana au ki te ū tonu ki a ia, and everything that she said. Because, she opened up the door to this house, which is known as your Whare Haka. Please explain to these students, what is this, what is the “Whare Haka”?

    Engari ko ngā taonga i tukuna mai e ia, ana he pūmautanga mōu mō ake ake ake. I want to stick with her, me āna kōrero. Tātemea nei i tuwhera ai e ia i ngā tatau o tēnei whare, e kiia nei tō whare haka. Tēnā, whakamārama mai ki ēnei ākonga he aha tēnei mea te “whare haka?”

    In my opinion, the Whare Haka is your own home that you have created. All the pillars within your home, they belong to you. All the pillars within my own Whare Haka are the pillars of Tānerore, of Hine-te-Rēhia, of poi, of poi genealogy, those are my pillars. The centre ridge pillar of my home is Te Ao Haka. Therefore that’s my Whare Haka.  And that's what I believe Tarita was getting at. I had adopted someone else's whare haka, and the most insightful thing that she had ever said to me at that time was to stop copying someone else and perform your own tū and be your own kaihaka.

    Ko te whare haka ki ahau nei, ko tō whare kua hangaia e koe. Ko ēra pou kei roto i tērā whare, nōu ērā pou. Ko aku pou kei roto i tōku whare haka ko ngā pou o ngā mahi a Tānerore, o Hine-te-Rēhia, o poi, me te whakapapa o poi, koirā aku pou. Ko te poutokomanawa o tōku whare, ko te ao haka. Nō reira koirā tōku whare haka Ka mutu, e whakapono ana au koinā te uho o ngā kōrero a Te Rita. I te whai au i te Whare Haka o tangata kē, ā, i taua wā koinā te māramatanga o āna kōrero, kāti te tū i te tū a tangata kē, ā, me tū koe i tōu ake tū, kia rongomaiwhiti tō tū. 

    That’s some pretty amazing feedback that she had given you. Thank you for sharing that story with us. Now, let’s now move onto our own father figure, to Tīmoti. There’s no doubt about it that there are many cultural gifts which have been handed down to both you and the group. Please share some of those with us.

    Kātahi nei te kōrero mīharo nānā ko tēnā, nō reira tēnā koe i a koe e whāriki i tēnā kōrero. Tēnā kia aro tāua ki tō tātau nei Pāpā, ki a Tīmoti. Kāore au e pōhēhē ana he maha ngā tukuihotanga ki a koe me te kapa, tēnā tukuna mai ētāhi

    2002, action song. I was responsible for the actions at that time, and at that time Whare Wānanga delegated all the actions out, all the items out, and Timoti just writes the words, puts them down, gives it to the kapa and then he goes away and he doesn't come back until it's all final and we can present it to him. So he came back and, well, I had no idea about this, but I got the woman to go down on their knees and perform the waiata-ā-ringa because it was a slow son, and then we were sitting in the auditorium at the Whare Wānanga o Waikato and he said, "I want to see waiata-ā-ringa, kia tere”. And so we performed that and he stopped us.

    2002, waiata-ā-ringa. Nōku te haepapa mō ngā ā-ringa i taua wā, ā i taua wā i tukuna atu e Te Whare Wānanga ngā ā-ringa, ngā waiata ki tēnā, ki tēnā, ā, i riro mā Tīmoti ngā titonga ā-kupu. Ka tukuna atu ngā kupu ki te kapa, ka haere atu ia, waihoki kua kore ia e hoki mai kia mutu rā anō ngā mahi, ā, me whakaatu atu ki a ia. Nā reira, i hoki mai ia, e hika, kāore au i paku mōhio ki tēnei tikanga, engari nāku i whakanoho ngā wāhine, kia noho ki ō rātou pona ki te waiata i te waiata ā-ringa nā te mea he waiata pōturi. Nā reira, i a mātou e noho ana ki te whare tapere i Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato, i kī atu ia, “E hiahia ana au kia kite i te waiata ā-ringa, hurry up”. Nā reira i waiatahia e mātou taua waiata, ka whakamutua tā mātou waiata e ia.

    We didn't even sing the first line. He stopped us and he goes, “Ladies, what are you doing?”.  And he goes, "Why are you all sitting down? A woman shouldn’t get down for no one get up." And he said, "Who did that?" And everyone just... You know those ones, they just went... And I was just like... He goes, "Oh, no wonder." I've had some amazing times with Tīmoti. Those were one of my just, oh gosh, times, and other times when I put a tune to his waiata he's like, “Hmm not too bad”. And then he walks away with a smile so you know koroua’ happy. Otherwise, he'll tell you, because he's straightforward, and the times that we did have in Te Whare wānanga o Waikato with Pāpā Tīmoti,. I acknowledge him for all his teachings that he has left with me, to maintain the essence and prestige of the Māori language.

    Kīhai mātou i waiata i te rārangi tuatahi. Ka kī atu ia, “" kei te aha koutou wahine mā?." Ka kī atu ia Ka kī atu ia, “He aha koutou e noho ana? E kore rawa te wahine e heke whakararo mō tētahi, e tū.” Ka kī ia, “Nā wai tērā i mahi?”

    I pērā te katoa….E mārama ana nē…. I pērā te katoa….i mīharo au…

    Ka whakahoki ia, “Ā, nā whai anō”. Mīharo rawa ētahi o ngā wheako me Tīmoti. Koinā tētahi o ngā wheako, wehi nā. He wā anō tōna i titoa e au te rangi ki tana waiata, ā, kō tāna, "Hmm, āhua pai". Ka menemene ia i a ia e hīkoi atu ana, nā ka mōhio kua harikoa a koroua. Ki te kore e pai ki a ia, ka whakamōhio atu ki a koe, kanohi ki te kanohi. Ko ērā wheako i Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato me pāpā Tīmoti, ko taku whakamiha ki aia ko āna whakaakoranga ki ahau ki te pupuri i te mauri o te reo Māori, me te mana o te reo Māori

    can absolutely feel that.Those role models have instilled those teachings within you, furthermore you pursued your own pathway of Te Ao Haka. You established your own Whare Haka, and now we have reached the current year, the year 2022. Now if we turn to the upcoming Te Matatini, what are some of your thoughts and aspirations that you want to see

    E rongo nei au i tēnā. Kua whakatōngia e ēnā iho pūmanawa ki roto i a koe, nōreira i takahi nei koe i tō ara o te ao haka. I whakarite anō hoki koe i tō whare haka, ana ka tae atu mātau ki tēnei te tau rua mano rua ngahuru mā I rua. Te Matatini, what are some of your thoughts and aspirations that you want to see? Tēnā mēnā ka aro tāua ki te Matatini e tū mai nei, he aha ngā whakaaro āu, ngā manako e hiahia nei koe te kite?

    Gosh! My own aspiration is for the whole world to see our Matatini. According to sources, this is the Matatini of the world. Therefore, we need to broadcast it to the world and not limit it to only New Zealand. So that our children and grandchildren may be able to stand proudly on the stage. To hold steadfast to our Māori language. For us to maintain the marae protocols and customs of each tribe. Those are my aspirations. At this point in time, some of the groups are a bit theatrical, but that’s totally up to them. I believe that the most important thing is that the stories of each tribe are heard. That’s what I do all the time, sit on the side and listen to the language, listen to the stories, the stories are beautiful. But what I do want to see, because it’s a big dream of mine, for all the songs which are sung by each group, not to be left to be sung only once. Revitalise all those songs which go right back to the inception of this festival.

     

    Some of those themes, I remember a poi from a group back in ‘88, that children's theme was beautiful but I haven’t heard that poi again. That’s what I hope for, don’t leave our songs just for the stage. Broadcast them so that the world can hear our stories.

    E kare mā! Manako nui mōku ake. Kia taea ai te ao katoa te kite i tō tātau Matatini. E ai ki te kōrero ko te Matatini o te ao. Nō reira me paaho ki te ao kaua ki a Aotearoa noa iho. Kia tū rangatira ai ā tātau tamariki, mokopuna ki runga i te papa whakatūwaewae. Kia mau ki ai ki tō tātau nei reo Māori, Kia pupuri anō hoki ki ngā kawa o tēnā iwi, o tēnā iwi, ngā tikanga o tēnā iwi, o tēnā iwi. Koirā te manako nui, i ēnei wā nei he āhua whakaari ētahi o ngā kapa, engari kei a rātau kē tēnā. Ko te mea nui ki a au ka rangona ngā kōrero o tēnā iwi, o tēnā iwi. Koirā aku mahi i ngā wā katoa, noho ki te taha whakarongo ki te reo, whakarongo ki ngā kōrero, he ātaahua ngā kōrero. Ko te mea e hiahia ana au te kite, he manako nui nōku, kia kaua ērā waiata ka waiatatia ia kapa, kia kaua e waiata kia kotahi noa te wā. Whakarauorahia ērā waiata, nō te orokohanga mai o tēnei kaupapa. 

     

    Ētahi o ērā kaupapa, maumahra au i tētahi poi nō te tau 88, nō tētahi kapa, he ātaahua te kaupapa o te tamaiti engari kāore anō kia rongo ki tērā poi mai i taua tau. Koirā tāku e manakohia nei kia kaua a tātau waiata e waiatatia ki runga i te ātāmira noa iho. Paaho kia rangona ai te ao katoa i ngā kōrero

    Now,  isn’t the cliché  be strong and unyielding, give our ākonga those tips, or more so, those comments that they don't want to see on their judges' sheets, because they've received the advice from the Papa here, or not getting the comments on their assessment sheets because they received advice. Now, give them that advice, guide them on those and let it be known.

    Nā reira, e ai ki te āki, kia kaha kia ū, hoatu i ngā kōrero akiaki ki ā tātou ākonga, ka mutu, ko ērā kōrero kāore i te hiahia kia kitea ki ngā puka kaiwhakawā, nā te mea kua tukuna e te Papa rā ngā kōrero akiaki, te kore rānei e whai kōrero ki ā rātou puka aromatawai nā te mea kua tukuna te kōrero akiaki. Tena, tukuna ngā kōrero akiaki, arahina rātou ki te huarahi, huarahi, tēnā whakapaaho atu.

    .  One of the things that I have thought about since I began diving into the depths of knowledge within this world of haka, per se. 

     

    I thought, how would I feel if an outsider from a different Whare Haka comes in to assess and judge my Whare Haka? This Whare Haka belongs to me, you know, who is the person to come in, and judge my Whare Haka? I am aware of all the pillars and tukutuku panels within my Whare haka. My role is to show my Whare Haka to the judges. Furthermore, for the younger generation to not be mistaken that your Whare Haka isn’t as good as someone else’s. That’s incorrect. Fill your Whare Haka up with the treasures of our ancestors. Grasp onto those things which you want to adorn your Whare Haka with. Similar to myself, I have grasped onto the poi. The long poi, poi raupō, poi harakeke, poi piu. Those are the things which I want in my Whare Haka. Therefore, grasp onto those treasures that you want.

    Ko tētahi o aku whakaaro i te wā i timata ai au ki te ruruku i ngā ngaru o te mātauranga i roto i tēnei ao haka me kī

     

    I whakaaro ai au, me pēhea tētahi atu, nō tētahi whare haka rerekē e aromatawai, e whakawā rānei i tōku whare haka? Nōku ake tērā whare haka, nā reira ko wai tērā tangata ki te whakawā i tōku whare haka? Kei te mōhio au ki ngā pou kei roto tōku whare, kei te mōhio au ki ngā tukutuku kei roto i tōku whare haka. Ko tāku mahi ko te whakaatu i tōku whare haka ki te kaiwhakawā. Me te mea anō hoki, kia kaua koutou te hunga rangatahi e pōhēhē, ko tō whare haka kāore e pai ake ki tētahi atu, kei te hē tēnā. Whakakīngia e koutou e te hunga rangatahi tō whare haka ki ngā taonga a kui mā, a koro mā. Kapohia ngā taonga e hiahia ana koe hei whakanikoniko i tō whare haka. Pērā anō hoki ki ahau, kua kapohia ake ngā taonga o te poi. O te poi roa, o te poi raupō, o te poi harakeke, o te poi piu, koirā tāku e hiahia nei i roto i tōku whare haka. Nōreira kapohia ērā taonga e hiahia ana e koutou.

    Oh brother we thank you, for the wealth of knowledge which you have laid upon us. We have been very fortunate.

    Ngā mōtoi kura, ngā kōkōtangiwai, ngā kuru pounamu kua hora nei e koe, e te tuakana tēnei rā te mihi atu ki a koe, nō mātau nei te maringanui, mauriora!

    Thank you.

    Kia Ora!

    Outro: 

    Reweti breaking down in converstion and actions of some poi actions followed by him performing waiata and poi dance. Then the image shows a birds eye view of the harbour with boats and a township in the background. A beautiful shot of a river with trees in the background lighten up with the glow of the sunrising in the background. Then the ocean is shown with an island in th distance panning out from behind a close up of some trees branches. A sign is displayed with words “Mataatua, the house that came home, Whakatāne New Zealand. Visitor centre on Mataatua st. shots of the Marae in the background with carvings of its entrance infront of it. Close up shots of the carvings then panning into shots of the front of the marae. Back to close up shots of the entrances carvings. A shot of the harbour with a boat and the sunrising in the background giving the shot a glow of colour from the sunrise. A different shot of the harbour with lots of boats docked and buildings in the background. A footpath is shown that leads to stone beds and carvings with the slightest view of the ocean which has a big hilly island in the distance. Closer shots of the carvings on the stone beds. A shot of waves crashing on the shore with the glistening glow on the water from the sun. a blurred shot of the beach in the background with people walking and one holding a surfboard heading to the water. A shot of the large rock on the beach with the women sculpture at the top. The screen fades to black with the words” Ministry of education, Te Tāhuhu o te Mātauranga” being displayed. 

    [ Accordion ]

    Interviewer: Rawinia Moeau

    Interviewee: Chris Henare and Sandra Waitai Henare

    Location: Te Tai Tokerau

    Intro: 

    [With music playing in the background] 

    Being displayed are video images Waitangi Treaty Grounds and northland beaches. Next is a a close up of the wharf beach and the road sign for Kaikohe. Videos of monuments from the north and the whare runanga at Waitangi Treaty Grounds then back to beaches and a close up on the carved pou. Flicking from images of carvings and beaches with sunsets. Then there is a short snippet of a mural on a street with people walking before shooting to a shot of the Mangamuka Radio station, then the welcome sign in Kaitaia and the road sign of Doubless Bay and Bay of Islands ending with a shot of the Tino rangatiratanga flag before the final shot of Waitangi with Te Tai Tokerau title. The intro closes off with text “Te Ao Haka” accompanied by the Te Ao Haka logo.

    Interview commences with the camera focused on husband and wife Chris Henare and Sandra Waitai Henare sitting in a studio setting with interviewer Rawinia Moeau-Pirini sitting across from them beginning the conversation. Throughout the interview the shot go back and forth between interviewees and interviewer. 

    English

    Māori

    Greetings to you both. We'll just get straight into it. Who are you and where are you from?

    Tēnā kōrua, hei ōku tuākana, e mihi ana. Kia kotahi atu tātou. Ko wai kōrua? Nō hea kōrua?

    Chris: 

    Greetings sister. I’ll start us off. My name is Chris Potiki Henare and I descend from Ngāti Kahu ki Whangaroa, Ngāti Toro, Te Whānau-a-Apanui, Ngāti Porou and Kāi Tahu. That’s me.

     

    Tēnā koe te tuāhine. Māku e tīmata tēnei wāhanga mā tātou. No reria ko Chris Potiki Henare tōku ingoa he uri ahau nō roto o Ngāti Kahu ki Whangaroa. Nō Ngāti Toro, Te Whānau-a-Āpanui, Ngāti Porou me Kāi tahu. Nō reira koirā tāku.

    Sandra: 

    Greetings sister. I am Sandra Waitai Henare. I am from Muriwhenua, Northland and Te Arawa.

     

    Kia ora e te tuāhine. Ko Sandra Waitai Henare ahau. Nō Muriwhenua, Te Hiku o te Ika me Te Arawa.

    Sandra: 

    Kia ora.

     

    Kia ora

    Rawinia:

    So, we're here today for our Te Ao Haka podcast's, and it's an honor and a privilege to be interviewing you both today as mātanga of Te Ao Haka. So we'll start with, where did you start, what was your first experience in the haka world?

     

    Kei konei tātou i tēnei rangi mō te īpāho o Te Ao Haka, ā, nōku te whiwhi kei konei ahau ki te uiui i a kōrua hei mātanga o Te Ao Haka. Kia tīmata tātou, i tīmata kōrua i hea, ā, he aha ō kōrua wheako tuatahi i te ao haka?

    Chris: 

    Well, being the gentleman that I am, I'll let my lovely lady go first and share her kōrero.

     

    Nā te mea he tāne ahau, ka waiho mā te wahine e wāhi ngā kōrero.

    Sandra:

    Ok so, for myself I think my first memory is when I was a really young girl. I was very fortunate to be brought up by my grandparents, my fathers parents, Heni Pere and Te Paea Waitai.

    And from a very young age my grandmother used to dress me up in a piupiu and give me pois and stand me up on a table in the lounge, turn the Tui Teka record on and I used to just stand there twirling my poi, swinging my piu, oh, twirling my piupiu swinging my pois around. 

    So that for me was probably my first memory of anything to do with haka, was poi and piu piu.

    And growing up with my grandparents, they lived in Kaingaroa Forest, I was born in Rotorua. And so being in Rotorua, as you know, is the hub of performing arts. People don't really know this about me, they always just naturally think I'm from the north, but I was actually born in Te Arawa in Rotorua. So yes, memories of my mother's auntie, who performed with Ngāti Rangiwewehi. So I have whānau affiliations to Ngāti Rangiwewehi as well as Tūhourangi Ngati Wāhiao. And growing up as a young person, that was always something that you saw.

     

    There's a picture of me when I was probably about two or three in a Ngāti Rangiwewehi uniform, and from a very young age I always thought, "Oh, man, I'd love to be performing with that team." But, to be honest, to be able to sit and listen to my grandparents singing, traveling from Rotorua, Kaingaroa Forest, home to Te Hāpua to visit, my grandparents always sang in the car, two part harmonies. And it would be like waiata hīmene. And as I got older I became the third part harmony.

     

    But also, when I remember things, I remember my father is a musician, and he was a part of the musos at the Tudor Towers, and I would say they probably were the first Super 12 team. And they used to do cabarets, like hāngī concerts. I used to sit there in the back and watch him play the bass. And his team at that time, it was people like Wetini, Bear Yates,

     

    Nō reira mōku ake, ko taku pūmahara tuatahi i a au e kōhine tonu ana. Nōku te māngari nui i tā ōku kaumātua whakatipu i ahau, ngā mātua o taku pāpā, Heni Pere rāua ko Te Paea Waitai. 

     

    I ahau e tamariki tonu ana, he kaha nō tōku kuia whakarākei i ahau ki te piupiu, ā, ka homai ētahi poi me te whakatū i ahau ki runga i te tēpu, nā, ka whakakāngia te rekoata Tui Teka me taku piu haere i taku poi me taku piupiu. 

     

    Koirā, ki ahau, taku pūmahara tuatahi o te haka, ko te poi me te piu piu.

     

    I tipu ake ahau i te taha o ōku kaumātua, i Kaingaroa Forest, i whānau mai ahau i Rotorua. Ko Rotorua pea te pā o ngā mahi a Rēhia. Te nuinga ka whakaaro nō Te Tai Tokerau tūturu ahau engari i whānau mai ahau i Te Arawa, i Rotorua. He nui aku mahara mō te whaea kēkē o taku māmā, i tū ia me Ngāti Rangiwewehi. He hononga ōku ki a Ngāti Rangiwewehi me Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao. I tō tamarikitanga, ka rite tonu te kitea o te kapa haka.

     

     

     

     

    Tērā tētahi whakaahua ōku, e rua, toru tau pea taku pakeke, i rō kākahu Ngāti Rangiwewehi, ā, i a au e tipu ana, i whakaaro ahau “Kei te pīrangi tū ahau mō tēnei tīma.” I rawe ki a au te noho me te whakarongo ki aku kaumātua e waiata ana, i ō mātou haerenga i Rotorua, i Kaingaroa Forest, ki Te Hāpua, he reo niko wāhanga rua. Me te aha he waiata hīmene. Ka tipu ake ahau, ko au te wāhanga tuatoru.

     

     

     

    Waihoki, ka hoki ngā mahara ki taku pāpā, he ringapuoro ia, he mema ia o ngā kaiwaiata i te Tudor Towers, hei tāna, ko rātou tētahi o ngā tīma Super 12 tuatahi. I waiata rātou i ngā konohete pēnei i ngā konohete hāngī. Ka noho ahau ki muri me te mātaki i a ia e whakatangi ana i te kitā panguru. Me tana tīma, ko te momo pēnei i a Wetini me Bear Yates.

    Rawinia: 

    Yep, wow.

     

    Hika mā.

    Sandra: 

    Yeah, it was a little small group and they did cabaret shows. Dad played the bass or the drums while the pois were twirling and the rākau were going. So from a very young age I'd seen a lot, I'd heard a lot. Music was always part of our family, waiata, singing. So I guess that's where it began for me, from a very young age, standing on my grandparents' coffee table, swinging my piupiu, twirling my pois, listening to my grandparents singing part harmony in the car, watching my aunty performing in cultural groups like Ngāti Rangiwewehi, watching my father performing at the Tudor Towers in a Super 12 Team at that time. So that's where it began for me, that's where I was introduced to the tools of hakas.

     

    Āe, he rōpū iti ka tū i ngā konohete. Ko tā taku pāpā he whakatangi i te kitā panguru, i te pahū rānei, ā, ka rere ko ngā poi me ngā rākau. He nui ngā āhuatanga i kitea, i rangona hoki i taku tamarikitanga. He whānau puoro mātou, ka kaha waiata i ngā wā katoa. I tīmata i reira mōku, i taku tamarikitanga, ka tū i runga i te tēpu a ōku kaumātua me te piu i te poi, me te whakarongo ki aku kaumātua e waiata ana i roto i te waka, te mātaki hoki i taku whaea kēkē i roto i ngā rōpū ahurea pēnei i a Ngāti Rangiwewehi, te mātaki i taku pāpā i Tudor Towers ki tētahi kapa Super 12. I tīmata i reira, koinā taku kuhutanga atu ki ngā āhuatanga o te ao haka.

    Rawinia: 

    Wow.

    Mīharo.

    Sandra: 

    Take it away.

    Kei a koe.

    Chris: 

    Ka pai. My journey was probably a lot different. When I was younger I spent a lot of time on the coast. I spent a lot of time with my mum's whānau down at Raukokore, Te Whānau-a-Apanui. So from a young age I was always going there for reunions or hui mate. So, my experience with kapa haka was actually running around the marae. And as children, we knew where we could and we couldn't go. So while all the mihimihis, and all the kaumātua and kuia were doing the waiata, mōteatea and stuff, we knew we weren't allowed to be running around on the marae ātea, so were always hanging around the back and listening to the waiata. So those are my earliest memories.

    And also, I suppose, one of the most prominent memories is at a hui mate, how a kuia would hotuhotu ērā mahi tangi, ērā tikanga ka āhua ngaro i ēnei rā. But those are memories that I always still hold today because I could feel the wairua, the ihi. But as a young child, I was actually quite scared, quite mataku of all that sort of stuff. So those are all the things that I remember in and around the marae at Raukokore. And in the evenings, mainly on the last night, whānau, or the uncles mainly, would get up and do a haka for the whānau. I was just in awe of some of my pāpās back then, like pāpā Te Kepa, who's my nana's-

     

    Ka pai. He rerekē taku ara. Nōku e tamariki ana, he kaha taku haere ki te Tairāwhiti. He rite tonu taku haere ki te whānau o taku māmā i Raukōkore, i Te Whānau-a-Apanui. I taku tamarikitanga he nui ngā hui ora me ngā hui mate i reira. Ko aku wheako kapa haka i ahu mai i taku omaoma haere i te marae. I mōhio mātou, ngā tamariki, ki ngā rohenga o te marae. Mōhio nei mātou i te wā o ngā mihimihi me ngā mōteatea, kāore te marae ātea i wātea, nō reira ka noho mātou ki muri, ka whakarongo ki ngā waiata. Koinā ngā maharatanga tōmua.

     

     

     

    Me te aha, i ngā hui mate ka hotuhotu ngā kuia, ērā mahi tangi, ērā tikanga ka āhua ngaro i ēnei rā. Koinā ngā maharatanga i titikaha ki te ngākau, i rongo ahau i te wairua me te ihi. Nōku e tamariki ana, i āhua mataku ahau i ērā āhuatanga. Koinā ngā āhuatanga e mahara nei ahau i ngā marae i Raukokore. I ngā ahiahi, i te nuinga o te wā i ngā pō whakamutunga, ka tū te whānau, ngā matua kēkē rānei, ki te haka ki te whānau. Wehi ana ahau i ētahi o aku pāpā, pēnei i a pāpā Te Kepa.

    Rawinia:

    Kepa Sterling.

     

    Kepa Stirling.

    Chris: 

    Kepa Sterling. So I'm from the Sterling whānau myself, and so watching my grand uncles like pāpā Kepa. And they would sometimes get up, because as you know on the coast, the wharekais would have a little stage set up so that they can entertain or for different types of huis. So I remember vividly watching my uncles up there, and my grand uncles, my pāpās up there going through the haka. But the thing that I always remember was that at times it was actually quite funny, because they'd be laughing amongst themselves because sometimes they'd go the wrong way, or doing the wrong actions and all the aunties and the nannies would be laughing. And then all of a sudden they'd switch and it'd be real serious.

     

    And so for me, it started to give me that sense of identity, cultural identity, of who I was and where I belonged.

    So I actually spent quite a lot of time down Te Whānau-a-Apanui when I was younger. And I remember pāpā Te Kepa taking me and my younger brother around different places down to Te Whānau-a-Apanui and we'd have to go and clean the urupā there at Raukokore and stuff. So actually, my grounding was actually down the coast.

     

    On my father's side, from Tai Tokerau, we would come home on the very rare occasions for hui mate and stuff like that, but then it was a different setting again. So my first memories was down in Te Whānau-a-Apanui.

    When I was started to get a bit older, about nine or 10, we moved to Christchurch. And so when I was 10 years old, I remember being taken to what was called, not then, the Aotearoa Māori Traditional Performing Arts Festival. I think it was that, it might've still been the Polynesian festival. 1986, Christchurch at QE II Park. So went along there and my mum took me to the nationals for the kapa haka, and it just opened my eyes to my own sense of cultural belonging. So I was there when I watched club that year, Te Waka Huia, as a young lad, and even though I couldn't understand everything that was going on on the stage, I could feel the ihi, I could feel the wairua.

     

    I felt the power of the performance, and that was always etched in my mind at that young age. And so for me, I had a sense of maybe one day I would be standing on that stage, maybe one day I would be blessed to be part of what I had just witnessed. And so that was just one stepping stone along my journey as a young lad.

    Leaving Christchurch, we moved back to Manurewa, and so it was there-

     

    Āe. He Stirling ahau, ā, i mātaki ahau i aku kaumātua pēnei i a pāpā Kepa. Ka tū noa iho rātou, ā, i ētahi o ngā wharekai he atamira iti, nō reira ka tū rātou ki te whakangahau atu i ngā momo hui maha. Mahara pai ahau ki taku mātaki i ōku pāpā i runga i te atamira e haka ana. Ko tāku e mahara pai nei ko te taha ngahau o ērā mahi, i ōna wā ka hē ngā ringa, kātahi ka pakaru mai te kata a ngā kuia. Mea rawa ake ka huri, ka ōkawa.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     I reira tipu ake ai te taha tuakiri, tuakiri  ā-ahurea, i mōhio ahau he Māori ahau, nō hea hoki ahau.

    He nui aku haerenga ki Te Whānau-a-Apanui nōku e tamariki ana. Nā pāpā Kepa māua ko taku teina i hari ki ngā wāhi rerekē i Te Whānau-a-Apanui ki te whakapai i ngā urupā i Raukokore. I whai tūāpapa ahau i te Tairāwhiti.

     

     

     

    I te taha o taku pāpā, nō te Tai Tokerau ahau, ā, i ōna wā ka hoki mai mātou mō ngā hui mate me ērā momo hui, ka mutu, he rerekē anō. Ko aku maharatanga tōmua i Te Whānau-a-Apanui.

     

    Ka tipu ake ahau, ka 9, 10 tau pea taku pakeke, ka hūnuku mātou ki Ōtautahi. Ka tekau tau taku pakeke, ka haere ahau ki te Aotearoa Māori Traditional Performing Arts Festival. Koinā te ingoa ki taku mōhio, ko te Polynesian Festival rānei. I te tau 1986, i te QE II Park i Ōtautahi. I haere tahi māua ko taku māmā ki te whakataetae kapa haka ā-motu, ā, i hura ōku kanohi ki taku ahurea. I mātaki ahau i a Waka Huia i tērā tau, ā, ahakoa kāore ahau i mōhio ki tā rātou i mahi ai, i rongo ahau i te ihi me te wairua o ngā mahi, ka mutu, titikaha ana ki taku hinengaro. 

     

     

     

     

    Mōku ake, i whakaaro ahau, hei tētahi rā, ko au tērā ka tū i runga i tērā atamira. He ara tērā i taku huarahi ao haka.

     

     

     

    Ka wehe i Ōtautahi, ka hoki ki Manurewa, i reira . .

    Rawinia: 

    South Auckland. Manurewa's South Auckland.

     

    Te tonga o Tāmaki, Manurewa.

    Chris: 

    South Auckland, Rewa hard, where I was lucky enough to meet Hori Pomana, an awesome kaiako who helped to instill really good values. And he sent me on my very first taiaha wānanga at, I think I was 12 and a half. I knew nothing about where I was going or what I was doing, but all we knew was if we were going somewhere for two weeks and it was a taiaha wānanga being run by Irirangi Tiakiawa. And at that time, us young boys, we didn't know much about te ao Māori space in terms of who were the prominent rangatira in that space of mahi.

     

    But I always reflect back to those two weeks as a young boy and what we learnt and some really awesome things we learned, and the friends that I met there. Some one's like Tamihana Ngaropo, ones like Te Reweti, Mete, they were all there, and so we made that connection as young lads. So those are my experiences from a young age. So koirā.

     

    Āe, te tonga o Tāmaki Makaurau, Manurewa ki te manawa, i reira tūtaki ai ahau ki a Hori Pomana, he kaiako pai i whakatō i ētahi uara ki roto i a au. Nāna ahau i tuku ki taku wānanga taiaha tuatahi, 12 tau noa iho taku pakeke. Kāore ahau i paku mōhio he aha te aha, i mōhio noa iho ahau i te haere ahau ki tētahi wānanga taiaha e whakahaerehia ana e Irirangi Tiakiawa. I taua wā, kāore mātou, ngā tama, i mōhio ki te whānuitanga o te ao Māori i te āhua ki ngā tohunga i roto i aua mahi.

     

     

     

    Ka hoki aku mahara i ngā wā katoa ki ērā wiki e rua, ngā āhuatanga i ākona, ngā hononga i hua ake. Te hunga pēnei i a Tamihana Ngaropo, Te Reweti me Mete, i tino hono mātou. Koinā aku wheako i taku taitamarikitanga.

    Rawinia: 

    Wow, that's two very different stories. But what we did get from that is that both of you felt it, you felt that connection and the feeling of that identity and wairua. Awesome, ka pai. So you got into it, you knew you loved it, you got into it, then what? Get into the real stuff.

     

    E rua ērā kōrero mutunga kē mai o te rerekē. Heoi anō, i rongo kōrua tahi i te wairua me te hononga ki te tuakiritanga. Nō reira ka kuhu atu koe ki te ao nei, ka rata hoki, kātahi ka aha? 

     

    Homai ngā kōrero.

    Sandra: 

    So still in the younger ages, so from Rotorua from the age of 12, we moved to Tāmaki, to Auckland, and I was ready to venture to college at that stage. So, as part of our family legacy I guess, my grandmother went to Queen Victoria or Kuīni Wikitōria, so I aspired to do the same thing. So my high school years was at Queen Vic, but prior to getting there, as a family, we'd always been those ones that had to be out the front and entertain. We always did it together.

     

    Nōku e tamariki tonu ana, 12 tau taku pakeke, ka hūnuku ahau i Rotorua ki Tāmaki Makaurau. He whānau Kuīni Wikitōria mātou nō reira i whai ahau i tērā tauira. Nō reira i haere ahau ki Kuīni Wikitōria mō te katoa o ngā tau kura tuarua, heoi anō i mua i tērā, he whānau kaha mātou ki te whakangahau. I mahi ā-whānau mātou.

    Rawinia: 

    Awesome.

     

    Rawe.

    Sandra: 

    My siblings, my dad's sister's children, my cousins, we always grouped together, and our job was to always sing the waiata. It didn't matter where, we had to. They're here.

     

    I waiata tahi mātou ko taku whānau me aku whanaunga. Ahakoa haere ki hea

    Chris: 

    The Waitais are here.

     

    Kei konei ngā Waitai.     

    Sandra: 

    They'll sing the song, they'll do the waiata. So from a very young age, we always stuck together as a whānau.

     

    Mā rātou ngā waiata. I piri tata te whānau nō taku tamarikitanga.

    Rawinia: 

    Beautiful.

     

    Ātaahua.

    Sandra: 

    In Tāmaki, the very first group we joined was Te Wairere o Tāmaki. Now the main tutor, or the leader was Uncle Nick Adams. Yeah, uncle Nick Adams. He was the man there and he tutored the older kids. We were youngish, and Aunty Hilda, which is cousin Thomas' mum, she was the junior tutor. So every weekend we'd spend with Aunty Hilda and our cuzzies in Auckland, training. And for us, it was about being together, having fun. Because that's all you remember when you were younger. It's just having fun, being together. Yes, we had to do waiata. Yes, we had to swing pois, and dress up and put moko on, because that was all exciting back then. But I guess the essence for us was just being together, having that fun. And kapa haka did that for us, kept us together.

     

    So, that was Te Wairere o Tāmaki. From there, like I said, I ended up at Queen Victoria for a couple of years, and that was that was a big change

     

    Ko Te Wairere o Tāmaki te rōpū tuatahi i whai wāhi ai mātou i Tāmaki. Ko Uncle Nick Adams te kaiako matua. Koia te tangata i reira, nāna ngā tamariki pakeke i whakaako. He teina tonu mātou i taua wā, nā Aunty Hilda, te māmā o tō mātou whanaunga, o Thomas, mātou i whakaako. I haere mātou ki a Auntie Hilda me ngā whanaunga i ia mutunga wiki ki te parakatihi. Ko te ngahau te mea nui ki a mātou. Koinā noa iho ngā maharatanga o aua rā. He ngahau te nohotahi. I waiata mātou i ngā wā katoa. I piu i te poi me te mau i ngā kākahu tika, he rawe ērā mahi i aua wā. Ko te mea nui ki a mātou, ko te noho tahi me te ngahau tahi. Nā te kapa haka i tutuki ai ērā āhuatanga.

     

     

     

     

    Ko Te Wairere o Tāmaki tērā. I reira i tae atu ai ahau ki Kuīni Wikitōria, me te aha, he rerekē tērā.

    Rawinia: 

    In terms of haka?

     

    Ā-haka nei?

    Sandra: 

    In terms of haka and just life in general. Being at boarding school, you learnt different values, different rules, and I still hold onto those values to this day. So, in comparison, when you're coming from a whānau team you can get away with quite a bit. But when you went to a place like Queen Vic, wow. All girls school. The things that stand out in my mind at the moment is grace, the gracefulness, the beauty of a young woman.

     

    Ā-haka nei, ā-noho nei hoki. He rerekē ngā uara me ngā ture i te kura noho, he uara e whāia tonutia ana e au i ēnei rā. Hei whakataurite, i roto i te tīma whānau, māmā noa iho te whakangā. Engari anō ngā kura pēnei i a Kuīni Wikitōria. He kura kōtiro. Me tau, me rerehua, me whakaatu i te ātaahua o te wahine.

    Chris: 

    But then you had strong wāhine leaders like Whaea Sylvia Clarke.

     

    He tauira wahine Māori kounga hoki pēnei i a Whaea Sylvia Clarke.

     

    Sandra: 

    Oh, absolutely.

     

    Whaea Sylvia, she was the matron of all matrons. Staunch, but always proud. Her values, like I say, we still hold onto those to this day. Just being disciplined, being disciplined in what you do. In hakas there was no real room for individuality, you did everything together. The same takahia, the same wiri.

     

    Tika tonu.

     

    Ko Whaea Sylvia te whaea o ngā whaea. He taikaha engari he māia. Kei a au tonu ngā uara nāna i whakatō. Te whakaraupapa i roto i ngā mahi. I te ao haka, he iti te wāhi ki te taha takitahi, me takitini kē. Me ōrite te takahi me te wiri.

    Chris: 

    Freestyle.

     

    Poka noa.

    Sandra: 

    Yeah, there was no real freestyle, everything was like, no, beautiful, graceful, real mana wahine.

     

    Āe, kāore he mahi poka noa, he ātaahua, he tau ngā mahi katoa, he āhuatanga mana wahine.

    Rawinia: 

    And they were, and you fellas were.

     

    Ka mutu i pērā koutou.

    Sandra: 

    Yeah, real mana wahine. So, like I said, from whānau teachings where it's all about family, singing as a family, to something that's a little bit more structured, something that has a little bit more, like a real young woman's presence, it was totally different. Yeah, very graceful. That's the word that really sticks out for me about Kuīni Wikitōria, is the gracefulness of the hakas.

     

    Āe, mana wahine. He rerekē te whakawhiti i ngā akoranga ā-whānau, te waiata ā-whānau ki tētahi āhuatanga āhua ōkawa ake, ka whai tikanga, ka whai i te tū a te wahine. He tau te tū. Ko te tau o te tū te āhuatanga i ākona i Kuīni Wikitōria.

    Rawinia: 

    Absolutely, wow.

     

    E mea ana koe. Mīharo.

    Sandra: 

    And then moving on. So, as you know, when you go to Queen Vic, you get to sixth form, seventh form. There was no seventh form in my time, so I tried to go to Auckland Girls' Grammar, didn't last. It was too big, too many people, but I must say, I did do the Poly Fest with the girls. I ended up playing the guitar for the Auckland Girls' Grammar rōpū.

     

    Haere tonu. I Kuīni Wikitōria, kāore he tau tekau mā toru. I ngana ahau ki te haere ki Auckland Girls’ Grammar, engari auare ake, kāore i noho roa. He nui rawa, he tokomaha rawa ngā tāngata, engari i tū ahau i te Polyfest. Ko au te kairakuraku mā te rōpū o Auckland Girls’  Grammar.

    Chris: 

    1989? What year was that?

     

    1989? Tēhea tau?

    Rawina: 

    Wow.

    Mīharo.

    Sandra: 

    I don't even know.

     

    Kāore ahau i te mōhio.

    Chris: 

    Oh, where was the Poly Fest?

     

    I hea te Polyfest?

    Sandra: 

    What's the one after Ngā Tapuwae?

     

    He aha te mea i muri mai i a Ngā Tapuwae?

    Chris: 

    Ngā Tapuwae again.

     

    Ko Ngā Tapuwae anō.

    Sandra: 

    I think it was. I can't remember.

     

    Ko tērā pea. E aua hoki.

    Chris: 

    Because they held it twice.

     

    Nā rātou te kaupapa i manaaki mō ngā tau e rua.

    Sandra: 

    Yeah, I can't remember. But yeah, I was just the guitarist then. And so from there went to James Cook High School. That was totally different again, yeah.

     

    E aua hoki. Ko au te kairakuraku i taua wā. Atu i reira ka peka atu ahau ki James Cook high School. He rerekē anō tērā.

    Rawina: 

    That's South Auckland, Manurewa?

     

    Te tonga o Tāmaki, Manurewa?

    Sandra: 

    South Auckland, Manurewa, yeah. So we lived in Manurewa for quite a bit. Yeah, so James Cook High School, Te Kapunga, Hori Pomana. For myself, I didn't want to involve myself with the kapa haka rōpū. I just thought, "Oh, I'll just go and sit-"

     

    Āe, te tonga o Tāmaki, Manurewa. I noho mātou ki Manurewa mō tētahi wā roa. Āe, nō reira James Cook High School, Te Kapunga, Hori Pomana. Kāore ahau i pīrangi hono atu ki tētahi kapa haka. I whakaaro ahau, “Ka haere noa iho ahau ki te noho .”

    Chris: 

    We were a bit beneath you, were we?

     

    I raro mātou i tō taumata nē?

    Sandra: 

    No, nothing like that, nothing like that. I just thought to myself, no, I want to just concentrate, because it was my last year of kura, concentrate on finding my career, finding what's out there for me.

     

    E hē, i te aro kē ahau ki taku huarahi i muri i te kura i te mea koirā taku tau whakamutunga.

    Chris: 

    With no distractions, eh?

     

     

    Kia kaua koe e kōtiti?

     

    Sandra: 

    With no distractions.

     

     

    Āe, kia kaua e kōtiti.

     

    Rawinia: 

    Nek minnit.

     

    Mea rawa ake.

    Sandra: 

    Yeah, that's right. But with James Cook, because it's such a large school, they had two rōpū, a competitive rōpū and a non-competitive rōpū. I love being around the whare and the marae, so I always just sat out there and I listened to the teams going for it. And Chris, at the time, had just finished kura and he was tutoring the competitive team. And my mates were in the non-competitive team but they didn't have a guitarist, so they said, "Oh, you can play the guitar." I said, "Yeah, I can play the guitar." So I ended up being the guitarist for the non-competitive team. And then, because both teams had to noho together, met this fella. Yeah. You might like to carry on the story there, love.

     

    Āe. Heoi anō i James Cook High School, e rua ngā rōpu nā te nui, he rōpū whakataetae me tētahi rōpū ngahau. He rawe ki a au te noho i ngā marae, ko tāku he whakarongo ki ngā tīma e mahi ana i ā rātou mahi. Kātahi anō a Chris ka wehe i te kura, ko ia tētahi o ngā kaiako o te kapa whakataetae. I roto ōku hoa i te tīma ngahau me te aha kāore he kairakuraku i te tīma, ka tahuri mai ōku hoa ki a au me te kī “He kairakuraku koe nē.” Tere tonu taku kī “āe.” Koirā i tū ai ahau hei kairakuraku mō te tīma whakangahau. Nā te mea i noho tahi ngā tīma e rua, ka tūtaki ahau ki tēnei tangata. Tēnā, kei a koe ināianei e te tau.

    Chris: 

    Yeah. Do I start from when you're chasing me around everywhere?

     

    Me tīmata ki tō whai haere i a au?

    Sandra: 

    You wish.

     

    Ō roke.

    Chris: 

    So my journey was probably a little bit different. Growing up in South Auckland, Manurewa, for me as a young Māori boy, my thing was I was looking for this cultural sense of belonging, which I hadn't fully had. And so when I went to high school and I met Hori Pomana, and then I met the rest of the third formers, or the turds that we were called, the turd formers back then. And I just found a common interest amongst some of the people that I'd met. And they were talking about, "Hey bro, come and join the Māori group," they called it. "Come and join the Māori cultural group." I said, "Oh yeah, that sounds really cool. I'm interested as."

    And so went to along, met Hori. He was quite intimidating because he had a strong presence. And so became part of the kapa haka group. First time I'd ever actually been part of a kapa haka group, and I did my first Poly Fest. It was at Hato Petera. They had the stage right outside, built off of the wharenui. And I remember being so nervous. I remember also my seniors, my first tā moko that I had received and I was feeling so proud, like this is the moment. So, lie down over here, I'm going to give you a moko. And I remember having a look in the mirror and my eyes were just all coloured and black. I must have been the first panda eyes, 1988.

    Yeah, so that was my very first performance, and it just started a whole chain reaction of wanting to do more performances. And the good thing with Hori Pomana, is he was a very tikanga orientated man. Hui mate, if someone passed away, we'd go. And not only would we go, we'd go, we'd be fully dressed in piupiu and everything, and we'd be out there and we'd be performing. Then after that, we'd be helping out in the kitchen.

     

     

    I āhua rerekē taku ara. i te whai ahau i taku hononga ki taku ahurea, nā te mea i tipu ake ahau i te tonga o Tāmaki, i Manurewa, ā, kāore anō ahau kia kite i taua hononga rā. Ka tae atu ahau ki te kura, ka tūtaki ki a Hori Pomana me ngā tau iwa. I pērā mātou katoa. I mea mai rātou “E hoa, haramai ki tō mātou rōpū Māori,” koinā te ingoa e ai ki a rātou. I kī ahau “Āe, hīkaka ana.”

     

     

     

     

     

    Ka haere ahau, ka tūtaki ki a Hori. He āhua whakamatakutanga ia i taua wā, nā tana āhua. Ka whai wāhi ahau ki te rōpū. Koinā taku kapa tuatahi, ā, i tū ahau i te Polyfest. I Hato Petera te kaupapa rā. I tū te atamira i waho i te wharenui. Māharahara nui ahau i taua wā. Kei te mahara hoki ahau ki taku tū pakeke tuatahi, me taku whiwhi moko, i whakahīhī ahau. Mea mai tētahi, takoto i konei, māku tō moko. I titiro ahau ki te mira, ā, i pango katoa ōku whatu. Ko au pea te whatu panda tuatahi i te tau 1988.

     

     

     

    Koinā taku tū tuatahi, ā, i hīkaka ahau ki te haere tonu. Ko te painga o Hori Pomana, ko tana whai i ngā tikanga. Ka mate tētahi, ka haere mātou. Ehara i te mea ka haere noa, engari ka mau piupiu, ka haere ki te haka. Mutu ana ērā mahi, ka kotahi atu ki te kāuta.

     

    Rawinia:

    Wow.

     

    Rawe.

     

    Chris: 

    He'd always take us to Koroneihana every year, and Poly Fest, and we were always performing, we were always doing shows. And the hard case thing about Hori was he would compose and teach us a bracket that would be like an hour and 20 minutes long with absolutely no breaks, like everything just goes rolling straight into each other, everything. And I was talking about tītī tōrea, tī rākau, haka.

     

     

    Ka haere hoki mātou ki te Koroneihana i ia tau me te Polyfest, he nui ngā whakaaturanga, he nui ngā tū. 

    Ko te mea hātakēhi e pā ana ki a Hori, ko tana whakaako mai i a mātou, he kotahi hāora neke atu te roa o ngā mahi, kāore he whakatā. 

    He tītī tōrea, he tī rākau, he haka hoki.

     

    Rawinia:

    Oh, wow.

     

    Oh, hika mā.

    Chris: 

    Yeah, it was a whole performance bracket. But we loved it. I mean, we may not have been the greatest team, but we loved what we did, we were proud of what we did and he instilled that pride in us. And so we'd come away from a Poly Fest. We wouldn't come in the top rankings, but every time we came off he always showed great pride and he always acknowledged us that we tried our best, and if you give your best then he would always be proud. So those are some really good things that I learned from Hori during the high school years.

     

    To be so into kapa haka in that time was not very popular amongst Māori that were at James Cook High School. The student numbers were around about 1800 students. I remember when I was there and when I was in kapa haka, we'd be lucky if we've got five to 10 boys in the kapa haka, because there was this stigma that, "Oh, it's not cool to be in the Māori cultural group." And so for us that were part of it, we always looked at like, "Oh, you Māori's over there." And that's how we were looked at. But for me and my colleagues, we just stuck staunch to what we believed was right.

     

    And so in those times, our Māori unit was a couple of old classrooms that had been moved from somewhere.

     

     

     

    I whai wāhi atu ngā mea katoa. Engari i pai ki a mātou. Ehara pea mātou i te tīma kounga, engari i rawe ki a mātou ngā mahi, ka mutu, nāna te māia i whakatō i roto i a mātou. Whakahīhī ana ia i ā mātou tū i ngā Polyfest, ahakoa kāore mātou i whai tūranga, i whakahīhī tonu ia i ā mātou mahi. Koinā ngā āhuatanga pai i ākona e au i a Hori nōku i te kura. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Kāore te nuinga o ngā Māori i James Cook High Sschool i tino ngākaunui ki ngā mahi kapa haka i taua wā. Tōna 1800 ngā tauira. He wairua kawa e hāngai ana ki te kapa haka nōku i reira, waimarie mēnā e 10 ngā tama ka uru i te mea katoa ngā tāngata i whakaaro “Kāore i te pai te uru atu ki te rōpū ahurea Māori.” Mō mātou i roto i te kapa, i tū ngā ihu o ērā atu ki a mātou. Heoi anō i tū mārō mātou ko ōku hoa ki tā mātou i whakapono ai. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I aua wā ko te wāhanga Māori he akomanga tawhito nō wāhi kē atu. 

     

    Rawinia:

    Prefabs.

     

    He whare hanga noa.

    Chris:

    It was a couple of prefabs that were just put together, it was the basic sort of thing. We never had much, but we had heaps of aroha for the kaupapa of what was happening. So I was lucky to do my training under Hori for a couple of years, and then along came another guy, David Tamanui. 

     

     

    Āe, he whare hanga noa. Kāore mātou i whai rawa engari he nui te aroha ki te kaupapa. Nō reira i waimarie ahau i taku noho i raro i ngā rekereke o Hori mō ētahi tau, kātahi ka tae mai a David Tamanui. 

     

     

    Rawinia:

    Oh, David Tamanui?

     

     

    David Tamanui?

    Chris: 

    Rawiri Tamanui. So he came along and he brought with him one of his good friends, who I then got to know as Uncle Bussy. 

     

     

    Āe, Rawiri Tamanui. Nāna i tō mai tana hoa, a Uncle Bussy. 

    Rawinia:

    Ah.

     

    Ah.

    Chris: 

    So, they came along, and they actually came along with their new lingo, which was like, everything was, "Chur doi, chur doi." They were saying all this stuff. So they bought that in. But through Dave, I got to meet Uncle Bussy. And of course with Uncle Bussy came Aunty Aroha. So slowly got to meet all these prominent people who were in the kapa haka space. 

     

     

    I haere mai rāua me ā rāua kīanga rerekē, katoa ngā kōrero i pēnei, Chur doi, chur doi.” Koinā ā rāua kōrero. Nā rāua ērā kōrero i hari mai. Mā roto mai i a Dave i tūtaki ai ahau ki a Uncle Bussy. I tae mai a Aunty Aroha i te taha o Uncle Bussy. Nāwai rā ka tūtaki ahau ki ēnei mātanga o te ao kapa haka. 

    Rawinia:

    Did you know that at the time before you met them? 

     

    I mōhio koe ki a rātou i mua i tō tūtaki atu? 

    Chris: 

    No, I never knew that at the time. For me, there was just Auntie Aroha, Uncle Bussy, Uncle Greg Motu would come along, and we would wānanga up at Kokiri ki Maungarei and that's where I met kaumatua Whio Motu. So he taught me my very first kōrero, and he showed me how to use a tewha. So I was lucky that Dave was able to make those contacts and bring people to help with my learning. When I was in my last year of school, I was really lucky that he bought in Howie Junior. 

     

     

    Kāo, kaua i taua wā. I mōhio noa iho ahau ki a Auntie Aroha me Uncle Bussy, ā, ka peka mai Uncle Greg Motu, ka wānanga mātou i Kokiri ki Maungarei, i reira tūtaki ai ahau ki a Whio Motu. Nāna ahau i whakaako ki taku kōrero tuatahi me te whiu i te tewha. Waimarie ahau i ērā hononga o Dave. I taku tau whakamutunga, waimarie ahau i tō mai ia i a Howie Junior. 

     

    Rawinia:

    Wow.

     

    Mīharo.

    Chris: 

    So, he came to JC, and he taught me how to use the toki. And so, the toki that I actually used at Poly Fest was his father's toki, which was Sir Howie's toki. So, I got to use that at a Poly Fest. 

     

     

     

    Haramai ia ki JC me te whakaako i a au ki te karawhiu i te toki. I whakamahi ahau i te toki a tana pāpā, a Sir Howie, i te Polyfest. 

    Rawinia:

    Did you even know the significance of that at the time? 

     

    I mōhio koe ki te hirahiratanga i taua wā? 

    Chris: 

    I sort of knew the significance, but not until I got older, then I realized, "Oh my God. Man, I'm so lucky to have spent time with not only Howie Junior, but also just to be able to hold that taonga as well. 

     

    So those are some of my awesome memories of coming into training under Dave Tamanui. He encouraged me to sing, he encouraged me to lead haka. So those were really good things. And then when I left school, I came back to support the group, and when I came back there was some new faces, and I noticed some pretty eyes looking over at me. Nah, but we were actually friends, we just became really good friends because we had a common interest in kapa haka. So, we were friends for quite a while and things sort of happened after that. 

     

     

     

    Tōna mōhio nei, heoi anō ka pakeke ahau, ka mōhio “Waimarie ahau ki te noho tahi ki a Howie Junior me te mau i taua toki rā.” 

     

     

    Koinā ētahi o ngā maharatanga pai o taku noho i raro i ngā rekereke o Dave Tamanui. Nāna ahau i akiaki ki te waiata me te tātaki i te haka. He mea pai ērā. Ka hoki mai ahau ki te kura, i muri mai i taku wehenga, ki te āwhina i te rōpū, ā, i kite ahau i ētahi whatu e kimo mai ana. He hoa māua, he ōrite tō māua kaingākau ki te kapa haka. He hoa māua mō tētahi wā roa, ā, nāwai rā ka hua ake ētahi atu āhuatanga. 

     

    Rawinia:

    So you were taught how to lead haka, and that's what I want to talk about now. Kaitātaki Tāne, Kaitātaki Wāhine, talk about your experiences as a leader. 

     

    Kei te pīrangi kōrero ahau ki a koe e pā ana ki te whakaakona ōu ki te tātaki i te haka. Kaitātaki Tāne, Kaitātaki Wahine, he aha ō kōrua wheako hei kaitātaki? 

     

    Chris:

    Well, I suppose being put into that role was just something that eventually happened. When I was in my younger years at James Cook, like third and fourth form, which would be year nine and 10 now, I observed those who were in front of me, my seniors at that time, and tried to emulate how they did things. And then I was fortunate, like I just said, to have then come under the wing of some really good kaiako that just supported me and helped me to grow. And that was really choice. And so, by the time I was getting ready to leave JC, and having led the team, and been trained under Dave, shown a few things by Howie Junior, being supported by ones like Uncle Bussy who was always around, and that allowed me to meet the Waka Huia whānau inadvertently, with Maihi Nikora. 

     

    And so, when I was 17 I think, I auditioned for Pounamu, Pounamu Training Systems as they were called back then. And so, my tutors were Annette and Tapeta Wehi. 

     

    He āhuatanga tērā i hua noa ake. Nōku i aku tau teina i James Cook, ko taku mahi he mātaki i ngā tuakana me te whai i a rātou. Waimarie hoki ahau i noho ahau ki ngā rekereke o ētahi kaiako tino pai, nā rātou ahau i tautoko, i āwhina hoki. Nā, ka tae ki te wā me wehe i a JC, kua ārahi ahau i te tīma, i ako ahau i tō Dave taha, nā Howie Junior ētahi āhuatanga i whakaatu mai, i tautokohia ahau e Uncle Bussy, he āhuatanga ērā i ārahi i a au ki te whānau o Waka Huia i tō Maihi Nikora taha. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    17 tau taku pakeke, ka whakamātau ahau mō Pounamu, ko Pounamu Training Systems te ingoa i aua rā. Ko Annette rāua ko Tapeta Wehi ngā kaiako. 

     

    Rawinia:

    Ah, yep.

     

    Ka pai.

    Chris:

    And so that was another gradual learning progression for myself. And then that gave me more confidence. And so eventually when I went to club. 

     

     

     

    He huarahi ako anō tērā. I tipu te māia. Nāwai rā ka peka atu ahau ki Club. 

    Rawinia:

    Club?

     

    Club?

    Chris: 

    It's a club, Te Waka Huia, we call that club. So, I was fortunate to be able to go into that space. I was confident that I could, at that age 17, 18, you can take on the world. At that age 17, 18, you can look at others and think, "Yeah, I can do that, I can do what you can do, I could probably even do it a little bit better." Not full of arrogance, but just full of confidence that I had been groomed well, that I had been prepared well and that if a challenge is put in front of me, then I'm just going to smash it. So that was my mindset. 

     

    And being around ones like my tuakana, were ones like Tomika, or ones like Freddy, ones like Tasi. And so just being in and amongst that, and knowing that their tukana above them were ones that Uncle Malcolm, and then had Wi and Boy. I was like, man, that gave me confidence that I was on the right track. So, when it came to things like joining club and being thrown into, "Oh well, here you go Te Manu Huia." "Oh, Te Manu Huia, easy, all good. Give it to me." So, when I was asked to lead the haka... 

     

     

    Ko Te Waka Huia a club. Waimarie ahau i whai wāhi atu ahau ki tērā kaupapa. I mōhio ahau e āhei ana, 17 tau taku pakeke, ko te ao kei mua tonu i a au. 17, 18 rānei tō pakeke, ka whakaaro koe, “E taea ana e au, he pai ake pea au i a koe.” Ehara i te whakahīhī, he māia kē, i whakapono ahau ki ngā whakakoranga, ā, i mōhio ahau ka karawhiu ahau i ngā wero katoa i mua i te aroaro. Koinā taku aronga.  

     

     

     

     

    I rawe te nohotahi atu ki ngā tuākana, te momo pēnei i a Tomika, i a Freddy me Tasi. He pai te nohotahi ki a rātou me te mōhio hoki ki ō rātou tuākana, pēnei i a Uncle Malcolm, a Wi me Boy. I whai kaha ahau i tērā mōhiotanga. Kātahi ahau ka whakahaua kia kuhu atu ki Te Manu Huia, ko tāku, “Manu Huia, ka pai, māmā noa iho.” Kātahi ahau ka tonoa kia tātaki i te haka ... 

     

    Rawinia:

    Was this for Te Manu Huia?

     

    Mō Te Manu Huia?

    Chris: 

    This was for Te Manu Huia, but the haka was Ko Koe Tonu Rā, that famous haka about hauora Māori. And the thing is, is that if you get asked to lead, you're not going to get trained, you should already know all the words for the leadership. And so that was your test, you get thrown on the spot straight away. Even if you just walk in the door. "Okay, you can lead the haka." And so you have to come in prepared, because you didn't roll into that space having no grounding or no preparation. 

     

    Prior to that I had trained at home on the back lawn, leading the haka, leading the haka, because I knew one day, one time, I would be asked by the whānau, "Na, kei a koe." And so I prepared myself mentally for that sort of opportunity, because I knew that if I was given that opportunity you need to step up to the plate. Because that's all I had heard being with the Wehi whānau, that's all I had heard being at Pounamu. 

     

    When you're at Pounamu, you are in a little group and you have to be an all rounder. You've got to do the weaponry demo, you got to be able to hold your space in a small team. And so my confidence was brimming, and when I got asked to lead the haka, I just jumped in there and just went 110, 120, 150 percent. And I could see in the eyes of my tuakana, I could see that they were thinking that, "Yep, we've prepped him well, he's progressing well." And so I just kept pushing, I just kept pushing. And so my goal was to always to try to do the best that I could. 

     

    And as a young fella, I'd always observe the great leaders of haka over the years. And in front of me, I had my tuakana, Chad Brown. I said, "Boy, I'm coming for your spot one day." 

     

     

    Āe, Te Manu Huia, ko te haka ko Ko Koe Tonu Rā, te haka rongonui mō te hauora Māori.  Tōna tikanga, ka mōhio kē te kaitātaki ki ngā kupu. Koinā te whakamātautau tuatahi. Ka tomo koe ki roto i te kūaha, “Ka pai, māu e tātaki.” Nō reira me mōhio koe ki ngā mahi, kia mōhio rātou kua rite koe. 

     

     

     

     

     

    I mua i tērā, katoa aku parakatihi i te kāinga, i waho i taku whare, i runga i te mōhio hei tētahi rā, ka tonoa ahau e te whānau, ka kī mai tētahi, “Na, kei a koe.” Nō reira i āta whakarite ahau i a au anō. Koinā ngā kōrero i rangona e au i te taha o te whānau Wehi, i te taha o Pounamu. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I Pounamu, kei roto koe i tētahi punua rōpū, me te aha, me tau ki ngā āhuatanga katoa. Me mōhio koe ki te piu i te rākau, ki te tū kaha i roto i tō punua tīma. Ka tae mai te tono ki a au, ka tātaki ahau mō te hemo tonu atu. I kite ahau i te whakahīhī i roto i ngā kanohi o ōku tuākana. Nā ka karawhiu tonu ahau i ngā mahi, ko taku whāinga kia eke ki te taumata teitei e taea ana e au. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Nōku e taiohi ana, ka mātaki ahau i ngā tino kaitātaki o te haka i roto i ngā tau, me te aha, i mua tonu i a au, ko taku tuakana, ko Chad Brown. Mea atu ahau ki a ia, “Taihoa ka tū ahau i tō tūranga.” 

     

    Rawinia:

    What was that spot?

     

    He aha taua tūranga?

    Chris:

    Kaitātaki.

     

    Kaitātaki.

    Rawinia?

    Yeah? Wow.

     

    Nē? Mīharo.

    Chris:

    Kaitātaki for Te Waka Huia.

     

    Kaitātaki mō Te Waka Huia.

    Rawinia:

    Yeah.

     

     

    Āe.

    Chris: 

    So, leadership in Manu Huia, but then the grounding that you got there, always being around Uncle Bub was always his kōrero, just kia noho humārie, kia noho whakaiti. Be humble, be grateful, appreciate what you have, but if you get an opportunity, you need to step up and show what you have. 

     

     

    So, the leadership for me started from there. So, I was grateful to have a good grounding, and then going to Te Manu Huia and to club, Waka Huia, man, I just felt like I was right in my element. But I kept pushing and I said, "I want to keep going, I want to be the best, I want to show that I can be the best." That was just a mindset that we had, because that's the mindset that we had with club, going to performance. "Okay, we're going and there and we're going to come out number one." Not in an arrogant sense, but just this mindset of excellence of performance, because that's always something that Uncle Bub always talked about. 

     

    And then of course, that eventuated into the senior ranks amongst my seniors and my tuakana of Te Waka Huia. Just such a privilege, such a honor and learned some really great things from there. Those were the values that are still instilled in me today, and hopefully I've carried them across as we've come home to Muriwhenua, which is a whole nother thing as well, of leadership. 

     

     

    I ako ahau i ngā pūkenga tātaki i Manu Huia, heoi anō ko te tūāpapa i reira, i te taha o Uncle Bub, he rite tonu tana kōrero mai, kia hūmārie, kia noho whakaiti. Kia pērā i ngā wā katoa, engari kia tae te wā ki te tū, me tuku tō katoa, whakaatuhia ō pūkenga katoa. 

     

     

     

     

     I tīmata ngā mahi tātaki i reira. Waimarie ahau i tīmata aku mahi i Te Manu Huia, ka piki ake ai ki a Waka Huia. I hiahia ahau ki te whanake tonu, ko tāku i whai ai kia eke ahau ki te taumata o ngā mahi. Koinā te aronga i Waka Huia, me ngā tū. “Ka pai, ko te angitu te whai.” Ehara i te āhua whakahīhī, engari he whai i te angitu, koinā te kauhau a Uncle Bub i ngā wā katoa. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Kātahi ka whakawhiti ērā kōrero me ērā whakaakoranga ki te rōpū pakeke, ki a Te Waka Huia. He hōnore nui te hono atu ki taua tīma, ā, he nui ngā akoranga. Koinā ngā uara kei a au tonu, me te aha, e tūmanako ana kei te hora ahau i ēnei ki taku kāinga, ki a Muriwhenua. 

     

    Rawinia:

    It sure is.

     

    Kei te pērā.

    Sandra:

    Well, my journey was totally different in terms of leadership. Nothing like Chris' over here. So fast forward 10 years, I went to support Chris in Manu Huia. I helped Uncle Paul in the kitchen. And so, I'm de-pithing fruit and Nan walked in and says, "Do you perform?" 

     

     

    He rerekē taku huarahi i te āhua ki ngā mahi ārahi. He rerekē i tā Chris. I haere ahau ki te tautoko i a Chris i roto i a Manu Huia. I āwhina ahau i a Uncle Paul i roto i te kīhini. Nōku e mahi ana, ka mea mai a Nan, “He kaihaka koe?” 

    Rawinia:

    Just like that?

     

    Koinā noa iho?

    Sandra: 

    Just like that. "Do you perform?" I said, "I can." And she said, "Yeah, Manu Huia needs some people. Want to give it a go?" I said- 

     

     

    Āe. “He kaihaka koe?” Ka whakaae atu ahau. Kātahi ia ka mea mai, “Kei te whai tāngata a Manu Huia, kei te pīrangi tū koe?” Ka mea atu ahau- 

     

     

    Rawinia:

    Oh not a guitarist?

     

    Hei kairakuraku?

    Sandra: 

    No, not a guitarist. Yeah. So, I said, "Oh, okay." So, I said to my husband, "Oh, my goodness, she just asked me if I could perform and Manu Huia needs some people to fill in." I said, "Oh, okay. Yeah, I'll give it a go." So anyway, I had a weekend to learn a bracket. 

     

     

    Kāo, kaua hei kairakuraku. I whakaae atu ahau. Kotahi mutunga wiki anake ki a au hei ako i te katoa o ngā mahi. 

    Sandra: 

    One weekend. And that was pretty hard, pretty hard. So being given a leadership role at that stage, I was like, "Ah." 

     

     

     

    Kotahi te mutunga wiki. He uaua tērā. Me te whiwhi tūranga nui i taua wā, i ohorere ahau. 

    Rawinia:

    You were given a leadership role in your first try?

     

    I whai tūranga nui koe i tō tū tuatahi?

    Sandra:

    Yeah

     

    Āe.

    Rawinia:

    Wow.

     

    Mīharo.

    Sandra: 

    Mm. And I don't know why. I still don't know why to this day. But like Chris was saying, when you are asked to do something, you do it and you do it the best that you can. So my preparation was totally different. Here I am peeling oranges, taking off the white stuff, and next minute I'm learning a bracket and then having to get up. When you have to get up and you have to prove that you have got some goods or something. 

     

     

     

    Kāore ahau i te mōhio he aha i pērā ai. Tē aro i a au i tēnei rā tonu nei. Heoi anō, pēnei i tā Chris i kī ai, ki te whakahaua koe kia mahi i tētahi mahi, me karawhiu mō te hemo tonu atu.  Anei ahau e waru ārani ana, mea rawa ake, kei te ako i ngā mahi kia rite mō te tū. Kia tū koe, me whakaatu ki te marea e tika ana tō whai wāhi atu. 

    Chris:

    Solos.

     

    Ngā waiata takitahi

    Sandra: 

    Solos. I was like “Okay, e tū, Mōteatea.”

     

    Waiata takitahi. I mea ahau, “Ka pai, e tū, Mōteatea.”

    Chris:

    E tū in front of everybody.

     

    E tū i mua i te katoa.

    Sandra: 

    And I'm in front of everybody. I'm like, "Wow, this is just a totally different level. This is a totally different ballgame." I've known about Waka Huia, I've previously met the Wehi whānau through other things, and then to be put into a role like that, it was pretty mind blowing, but an amazing experience in the same token. And like I said, when you're given that opportunity, and if they think and believe you've got the goods to do something, then you just do it, you give it a go. 

     

    E tū ana ahau i mua i te katoa. E whakaaro ana, “Kātahi rā, he rerekē tēnei taumata. He ao atu anō.” I mōhio ahau ki te whānau Wehi, heoi anō i taku whiwhi i taua tūranga rā, i ohorere katoa ahau, me te aha, kātahi te wheako pai. Ka hua ake he mahi pērā, me karawhiu mō te hemo tonu atu, kei te whakapono rātou ki a koe. 

    Rawinia:

    Yeah.

     

    Āe.

    Chris:

    Then you also had to learn two brackets, aye, for the same campaign?

     

    Waihoki i ako koe i ngā hōtaka e rua mo te kaupapa ōrite nē?

    Sandra:

    Oh yes.

     

    Āe.

    Rawinia:

    You had to learn two brackets?

     

    I ako koe i ngā hōtaka e rua?

    Chris: 

    Yeah, she was the reserve for the Waka Huia ladies and the leader for Te Manu Huia at the same time. So learning two brackets, and going between- 

     

     

    Āe, ko ia te kaikapi wahine mō Waka Huia me te kaitātaki mō Manu Huia. I ako ia i ngā hōtaka e rua. 

    Rawinia:

    That’s unheard of.

     

    Kāore anō tērā kia kitea.

    Sandra: 

    And I'd just not long had our son. So this was back in 97, so he was a six week old baby, and this was all going on, and it was like, "Okay, deep breaths. You can do this if this is what you want." Well, at that time I didn't know that's what I wanted, but it was an opportunity in the same token. So yeah, learning Manu's bracket and then being asked to lead different items, that was amazing, what an amazing experience. But the person that I looked up to the most was Aunty Vicky. Her words of inspiration, her words of, "Come on, Sandra, come on, give it." I was like, "Whoa, okay, let's do this." 

     

    But also,I had seniors that were in club Waka Huia that were from Queen Vic. So Moko Templeton, Kristin Kohere, so I already had... So, I was like, "Oh, my tuakana are over there, I'd better do a damn good job." 

     

     

    Kātahi anō hoki ka whānau mai tā māua tama. I te tau 97 tēnei, 6 wiki tana pakeke, i te whakaaro ahau “Hā ki roto. E āhei ana koe mēnā koinei tō hiahia.” Kāore ahau i mōhio ki tāku i hiahia ai i taua wā, engari he mahi mīharo. I rawe te ako i te tū a Manu Huia me te tātaki i ētahi o ngā mahi, he wheako rawe rawa atu. Ko Aunty Vicky taku tino iho pūmanawa. Ko āna kupu whakaawe i a au ko “Kia kaha Sandra, tukuna.” I te whakaaro ahau, “Ka pai, ki te hoe.” 

     

     

     

     

     

    I roto hoki ētahi o aku pakeke nō Kuīni Wikitōria i a Waka Huia. Te momo pēnei i a Moko Templeton me Kristin Kohere, nō reira i te whakaaro ahau “Kei konei aku tuākana, me pai aku mahi.” 

     

    Rawinia:

    Yeah. Wow, awesome. 

     

    Rawe. Mōharo.

    Sandra: 

    And then learning two brackets. Then the year of 98, I had the privilege of leading Te Manu Huia on stage. 

     

     

    Kātahi ka ako i ngā hōtaka e rua. I te tau 98, nōku te whiwhi i tātaki ahau i a Manu Huia i runga i te atamira. 

    Rawinia:

    And then swiftly moved on to Te Waka Huia

     

    Kātahi ka piki ki a Waka Huia. 

    Sandra:

    Swiftly moved on to Te Waka Huia. 

     

    Ka piki tere ki a Te Waka Huia. 

    Rawinia:

    And maybe not kaitāitaki wāhine, but a soloist. 

     

    Ehara pea hei kaitātaki wahine, engari he kaiwaiata takitahi. 

    Sandra:

    But once again, like you say, when you are given that opportunity, you do it, and you do it well. 

     

    Pēnei i tō kōrero, ki te ara ake he mahi, karawhiua mō te hemo tonu atu. 

    Chris:

    And you're really groomed by aunty Nan to be under pressure and still pull out the goods. 

     

    Nā Aunty Nen i whakatō te āhua o te eke i roto i ngā horopaki uaua. 

    Sandra: 

    Yeah, it felt like that, because at the time we had decided, "Okay, well the rest of our whānau, let's bring the rest of my siblings and see if they can have a go at Manu Huia." So it was a progression as a whānau. And I don't know if you notice, when we do something, the rest will follow. And it's been like that our whole, entire lives. And so the pressure was on, because now I'm training with siblings and cousins, and as we all know in that game, you have to be at the highest level of everything. Fitness, you have to be ready with your children. It's all the behind scenes, all the stuff that happens prior to getting to a noho that you have to be prepared for. So the pressure was certainly on because if one of your whānau members don't make it, the rest of us get affected in some sort of way. 

     

     

    Koinā te āhua i taua wā, i whakaaro ake ahau, “Me tō mai pea i te toenga o taku whānau, ka whai wāhi atu pea rātou ki a Manu Huia.” He whanaketanga ā-whānau. Kāore pea koe i te mōhio, heoi anō, kia mahi mātou i tētahi mahi, ko te katoa ka whai i taua mahi rā. Kua pērā nō mai anō. Nō reira ka rongo mātou katoa i te uaua o ngā mahi, nā te mea me eke mātou katoa. Te whakapakari tinana, me rite hoki ngā tamariki. Me rite ngā āhuatanga katoa i tua atu o te atamira. He uaua nā te mea ki te kore tētahi o te whānau e whai wāhi atu, ka rongo te katoa i tērā pānga. 

    Rawinia:

    Yeah absolutely. Don’t make the team, you mean?

     

    E mea ana koe. He aha te tikanga o tērā kōrero, e kore e whai wāhi atu?

    Sandra:

    Yeah, that don't make the team. I think there were, how many of us trialing for 2000? There was me, Chris, Daniel, Thomas, Samantha, Hera, Renee. And out of the seven of us, six of us made it, but Renee, Cousin Renee, she led Manu's, same sort of thing as me. 

     

    Te kore i whai wāhi atu ki te tīma. Tokohia mātou i whakamātau mō te tīma i te tau 2000? Ko mātou ko Chris, ko Daniel, ko Thomas, ko Samantha, ko Hera me Renee. Tokoono o roto i te tokowhitu ka whai wāhi atu, heoi anō te whanaunga, a Renee, i tātaki ia i a Manu Huia, pēnei i a au i ērā tau. 

    Rawinia:

    Beautiful. Wow. Is there anything else you want to share about your time in Waka Huia before we move on to mighty Muriwhenua? 

     

    Ātaahua. He kōrero atu anō e pā ana ki tō noho i Waka Huia i mua i te whakawhiti atu ki Muriwhenua? 

    Chris:

    Just-

     

    Sandra:

    The lessons.

     

    Ngā akoranga.

    Chris:

    Yeah. We learnt some really good life lessons that we still carry today, and sometimes when we find things maybe difficult, or in a sticking point or sticking place, we reflect back on values and lessons that were shared with us from uncle and auntie. And one of the things that really sticks out in my mind is giving opportunity for others. 

     

    Āe. He nui ngā akoranga ka titikaha ki te ngākau, i ōna wā ka rongo i te uaua, i te taumaha rānei, hei reira hoki atu ai ki ngā akoranga me ngā uara nā Uncle rāua ko Aunty i tuku mai. Ko tētahi o ngā tino ko te tuku i ngā mahi ki ētahi atu. 

    Sandra:

    They never judged us.

     

    Kāore rāua i whakawā.

    Chris:

    They never judged you in terms of...

     

    Kāore i whakawā i a koe i te āhua ki...

    Sandra:

    Who you were, where you came from, what's your background. Because koro always said, "Everyone has a story." 

     

    Tō whakapapa, nō hea koe, tō hītori. Ko tā Koro, “He kōrero tō ngā tāngata katoa.” 

    Chris:

    Yeah. And everyone has a place. And he had such a big heart that from people from all walks of life were given an opportunity to walk into this space, and to be in a learning space, to be in a sharing space, to be in a safe space, because Uncle Bub always was prominent in his whakaaro about the roles of tāne and wāhine, and the roles of keeping the space safe. He was always talking about and encouraging us, "Hey, you fellas, stop the drinking. Hey, we won't have any of this funny business over here." If he talked about men mistreating their woman, he'd always come and give us the stern talking to. "Hey, I don't want to hear about any of you boys doing any of this sort of stuff," if this sort of things happened. 

     

    He wāhi mō ngā tāngata katoa. He nui tōna manawa, ahakoa ko wai te tangata, ka pōhiritia ia ki tēnei wāhi āhuru, he wāhi ako, he kaha a Uncle Bub ki te aro ki ngā mahi a te tāne me te wahine, me ngā mahi whakahaumaru i ērā wāhi. He kaha tana kī mai ki a mātou, “Me mutu te inu waipiro, kaua e pōrangi i konei.” Mēnā ia ka kōrero mō ngā mahi kino a ngā tāne ki ā rātou wahine, ka kotahi mai ia ki a mātou ki te kōrero ki a mātou. “Kaua rawa koutou e pērā,” ki te pērā ngā mahi. 

    Sandra:

    He just genuinely cared about anything and everything he did. 

     

    I tino arohanui ia ki ngā mea katoa e hāngai ana ki a mātou. 

    Chris:

    Yeah, he just genuinely cared about the men. There'd be times when he'd get all the men, "Oh, come in here you men." We'd sit down and he goes, "Okay, I'm going to talk about." Aunty Nen would come in and she'd sit in. "Okay men, we're going to talk about prostate cancer." And Aunty Nen would get up and say, "Oh, I don't need to be in here." But it's been because he had a genuine concern about the health of the men. 

     

    He nui tana aroha ki ngā tāne. Tērā ētahi wā ka karanga atu ia ki ngā tāne, “Haramai tāne mā.” Ka noho mātou, ka kī mai ia, “Ka pai, kei te pīrangi kōrero ahau.” Ka noho mai a Nan. “Kei te pīrangi kōrero ahau mō te mate pukupuku repe tātea.” Ka tū a Nan ka kī, “Kāore he take o taku noho mai.” Nā tana aroha nui ki te hauora o ngā tāne. 

    Sandra:

    Yes, health and wellbeing.

     

    Āe, te hauora me te oranga tonutanga.

    Chris:

    He always urged the men to be healthy, to eat healthy kai. And so, his concern was more than just the kapa haka.

     

    He kaha tana akiaki i ngā tāne ki te kai i ngā kai pai. 

    Ka aro ia ki ngā āhuatanga i waho ati i te kapa haka.

    Rawinia:

    Yea, more than the stage.

     

    Āe, neke atu i te atamira.

    Chris:

    Yeah, it was more than the stage. So his concern was about the welfare and how are our whānaus within this space? How are our men? How are our wāhine? there? So those are the values that I learned from Uncle Bub, so those are things that we make sure that we try to continue within our space of kapa haka. There's the stage stuff, but then off the stage, how is our whānau environment? How are our members in terms of everything that's going on and how can we support everybody? 

     

    Āe, i neke atu i te atamira. Nō reira ko tana aronga te ora o ngā whānau i roto i tēnei wāhi? Kei te pēhea ngā tāne? Kei te pēhea ngā wāhine? Koinā ngā uara i whakaakona mai e Uncle Bub me te aha ka ngana ahau ki te kawe i ērā mahi ki roto i ngā wāhi kapa haka katoa. Ko ngā mahi i runga i te atamira, i tua hoki o te atamira, kei te pēhea te ao o te whānau? Kei te pēhea ngā mema, ā, he aha ētahi mahi hei āwhina i a rātou? 

     

     

     

    Sandra:

    So what we learned is haka is not a hobby, hakas is definitely a lifestyle.

     

    Ehara a kapa haka i te kaupapa kaingākau, he momo oranga.

    Chris:

    Yeah. And then with Aunty Nen, wow she was a hard task master as you know, eh Sis?

     

    Āe, ka mutu, Aunty Nen, he taikaha ia, nē, tuahine?

    Rawinia:

    Yip.

     

    Āe.

    Chris:

    But she was that way inclined because when it comes to doing the mahi and getting the results, that's what's required. And so it goes hand in hand, the discipline of the mahi, but also making sure that we set up good support systems to awhi the team. So those are the real leadership qualities that we picked up.

    And of course, as we know, Uncle Bub on the stage leading the haka, there was no one else to compare to him leading the haka in terms of the ihi, in terms of the drive in that haka space, te haka ā Tane-Rore. For those of us that have been there, those of us that have stood in the rows and felt the power of Uncle Bub's voice as he walks up these ranks, man, what I can remember is feeling like my body's on fire. What I can remember is feeling like I'm invincible. That was the feeling that you got when you're in the rows and Uncle Bub's leading. For that moment, for those three minutes, you become immortal and you live forever. That was the power of Uncle Bub leading the haka.

    And so for us, man, we're just so humble and grateful to have been in that space at that time, because it's still things that I reflect on, it's things that we reflect on. Things that I try to teach my young leaders is, "Hey, when it's time to lead you are the inspiration, you are the driving force that takes the haka taparahi, or the haka eke, or whatever item, takes from here to there." And Uncle Bub always talked about starting strong and finishing stronger, all those sort of things. So those are things we try to emulate and share with our whānau, even though it's a different context coming from a big team that's always hitting the top level of competitive kapa haka, coming home, it was like...

     

    I pērā ia nā te mea ki te whiwhi i ngā pāinga, me pērā ngā mahi. E noho tahi ana ērā āhuatanga, me ū ki ngā mahi, me whakarite pūnaha tautoko hoki hei āwhina i te tīma. Koinā ngā pūmanawa i ākona.

     

     

    Kāore he tangata i tua atu i a Uncle Bub mō te tātaki i te haka i runga i te atamira, tana ihi, tana pupuri i te manawataki, te haka a Tānerore. Mō te hunga mōhio, kua tū ki te haka i te wā e tātaki ana a Uncle Bub, kāore he kupu, ānō e wera ana taku kiri. I whakaaro ahau he atua ahau. Koinā te āhua o ngā kare ā-roto nō Koro Bub e tātaki ana. I taua wā rā, i aua mēneti e toru, he atua koe. Koinā te kaha o ngā mahi tātaki a Uncle Bub.

     

     

     

     

    He hōnore nui mō mātou, he āhuatanga hei whirinakitanga, hei hokinga maharatanga anō hoki. Ka pēnā taku whakaako i ngā rangatira o āpōpō, “Kia tae te wā ka tū koe hei kaitātaki, ko koe te kaiwhakaawe, te manawataki, te kaikawe i te haka i konei ki konā.” Hei tā Uncle Bub, kia kaha te tīmatanga, kia kaha ake te whakatepenga, koirā ngā momo kōrero. Ka ngana mātou ki te whai i ērā kōrero me te whakaatu atu ki te whānau, ahakoa te rerekē o te horopaki, me eke ki taua taumata o te tīma whakataetae, ka hoki mai mātou ki te kāinga, he āhua . . .

    Sandra:

    Totally different.

    He rerekē rawa atu.

    Rawinia:

    Home in Te Tai Tokerau, eh?

    Te Kāinga i Te Tai Tokerau nei?

    Sandra:

    Home in Te Tai Tokerau, yeah.

    Āe, te kāinga i Te Tai Tokerau nei.

    Chris:

    Coming home to Te Tai Tokerau.

    Te hoki mai ki te kāinga ki Te Tai Tokerau nei.

    Rawinia:

    To start your own roopū.

    Ki te tīmata i tō roopū?

    Chris:

    To start the roopū and sharing, but it always comes back to what Uncle Bub urged us to do, was to come home and share, to come home and uplift our people, come home and give back. Because it's not about you yourself, you've had your time up there, you've had your time up there and that's all cool, you've done well and that, but what are you doing for others? What can you do for others? Can you give others opportunity? Can you uplift your community?

    Ki te whakatū rōpū me te whakaatu i ngā mahi, ka hoki ki ngā kōrero a Uncle Bub, me hoki ki te kāinga ki te tuku i ngā mahi me te whakapiki i ngā tāngata, he whakahoki i te aroha ki te kāinga. Kia whānui te titiro, me mutu te whakaaro mōu anake, kua ea te wāhi ki a koe, he aha ō mahi mō ētahi atu? Ka aha koe mō ētahi atu? Ka whakarite wāhi koe mō ētahi atu? E āhei ana koe te whakapiki i te ora o tō hapori?

    Sandra:

    Can you inspire your community?

    E āhei ana koe te whakaawe i tō hapori?

     

    Chris:

    Can you inspire your community? So we came home with these-

    E āhei ana koe te whakaawe i tō hapori? Nō reira ka whakahokia mai ko ēnei.

    Sandra:

    Great intentions.

    He takune pai.

     

    Chris:

    With these, "We're going straight to the top, we're going straight to the top line whānau." Only because that was our competitive mindset.

     

    Me te whakaaro, “Ka eke mātou ki te toi o ngā mahi, e te whānau.” Nā te mea koirā te aronga.

     

    Sandra:

    That’s all we knew.

    Koinā noa iho tā mātou i mōhio ai.

    Chris:

    That’s all we knew.

    E mea ana koe.

    Sandra:

    That’s all we knew. So whenyou come home and you think, “Hey, let’s go, let’s get in to it.” And it’s like, oh right back to grassroots.

    Tika hoki. Nō reira ka hoki atu koe ki te kāinga, ka whakaaro ake, “Ka pai, kia kotahi atu ki ngā mahi,” Engari ko te kāinga tēnei.

    Chris:

    Yeah, it has to restart and reset.

    Me tīmata anō.

    Rawinia:

    Well, that's it, the grassroots in Te Tai Tokerau. You've got all these learnings and these gems to share, but remembering it's Te Tai Tokerau.

    Differences in styles. What were those obstacles or differences? The things you had to struggle with or not struggle with?

    Āe, ko te kāinga i Te Tai Tokerau. He nui ngā akoranga me ngā kura huna hei tuku engari me mahara ake, ko Te Tai Tokerau Tēnei.

    He rerekē ngā tāera. He aha aua taupā, aua rerekētanga rānei? Ngā mea uaua, māmā hoki?

    Chris:

    Well, I think it's, when we did come home we spent quite a few years actually teaching a lot of tamariki, who then after 10, 15 years became adults. And so it allowed us to continue the progression with ones that we've worked with who are now become young adults, but also allow other people from the community to come home. But then it also reminded us that we actually need to do a lot of rangahau, a lot of research into Tai Tokerau kōrero, into Tai Tokerau hītori. And then we came to the realization that actually, for us, it's different now coming home, because it's not so much about the competitive stuff, it's about connecting our people to their tātai hekenga, the whakapapa ō te kāinga, hītori ō te kāinga and making sure that we are being genuine with the kōrero narratives and stuff, and making sure that all those things are in place first.

    So it was a journey for us in terms of coming home and learning the te mita ō te kāinga , in terms of learning tikanga of why we do things up here and the purpose. And so our mindsets started to change from competitive, competitive, I want to win everything all the time, to actually coming back to grassroots and sharing the history, sharing whakapapa connections and researching the styles of certain roopū. So for us, when we did decide to start up a team called Muriwhenua, the name actually came from my wife's grandparents who always talked about ko Muriwhenua te rohe. And so for us it was about trying to discover it. So we named the team Muriwhenua, only to find that actually there was originally, in 1972, the first Muriwhenua team was there at that time.

     

    I te hokitanga mai ki te kāinga, ka roa māua e whakaako ana i ngā tamariki, ka hipa te 10, 15 tau, nāwai rā kua pakeke. Nō reira māmā noa iho te kawe tonu i ngā mahi i tō rātou taha me te whakarite wāhi e hoki mai ai ētahi ki te kāinga. He whakamaharatanga pai hoki mō mātou nā te mea ka mate mātou ki te rangahau i ngā kōrero me ngā hītori o te Tai Tokerau. Kātahi te kapa ka taka, he rerekē ngā mahi i te kāinga, ehara te whakataetae i te aronga, ko te whakahono anō i ngā tāngata ki ō rātou tātai hekenga, te whakapapa o te kāinga, te hītori o te kāinga hoki, waihoki kia mōhio rātou ki ērā kōrero katoa i te tuatahi.

     

     

     

    Nō reira he ara roa mō mātou te hoki ki te kāinga me te ako i te mita, i ngā tikanga me ngā whāinga. Ka huri tō mātou tāera i te tāera whakataetae ki te tāera tuku kōrero mō te kāinga, mō te whakapapa me te rangahau i ngā tāera a ngā momo rōpū. I hua ake te ingoa Muriwhenua i ngā kaumātua o taku makau, he rite tonu tā rātou kī “Ko Muriwhenua te rohe.” Nō reira ko tā mātou he hura i tērā rohe. Ka whakaingoa mātou i te rōpū, heoi anō kātahi mātou ka mōhio, he tīma Muriwhenua kē nō te tau 1972.

    Rawinia:

    Wow.

    Mīharo.

    Sandra:

    We never ever knew that.

    Kāore mātou i mōhio.                                                                 

    Chris:

    But we never actually knew that. So we were like, "Oh man, actually let's do some more research." And so through the research we started to learn different tikanga and aspects that teams from up home used to have. And so there's a really awesome kōrero and narratives.

     

     

    Kāore mātou i mōhio. Nō reira ka mate mātou ki te rangahau. I roto i ngā mahi rangahau, ka kite mātou i ētahi o ngā tikanga me ngā whakahaere rerekē i kawea ake e ngā tīma o te kāinga. He rawe ngā kōrero me ngā pūrākau.

     

     

    Rawinia:

    What are they?

    He aha ērā?

    Chris:

    Well, the true northern style for Muriwhenua in Te Rarawa over that side was more simple there. The more simplistic style of kapa haka. Not so overly aggressive.

     

     

    He māmā noa iho te tāera a Muriwhenua i tā Te Rarawa. He tāera kapa haka māmā. Ehara i te tāera taikaha.

    Sandra:

    Just real ngāwari.

    He ngāwari noa iho.

    Chris:

    Real ngāwari. Kia māmā te haere And certain things, which are actually quite similar to some other rohe, but they were mainly dictated by the taiao, the environment, things that were happening at that time. So for example, our Te Rarawa and our Muriwhenua team out on the coast on 90 miles side, for the men, their kākahu was rimurimu. So the seaweed was their was their maro and some of the movements reflected the moana, the taiao. And there were certain tikanga that's eroded now because we all need heaps of choreography, we need to give the wow factor, the X factor, but there was certain tikanga that we always stuck to. One was there was never any splitting of the ranks. And so now we have teams that open up, here comes the ti hangai, and we want to run around, and here comes the revolving door and all this sort of stuff going on. 

    That was never really done in those days. The tikanga was to stay in the rows as the men come forward, the men come forward through the space, through the gaps, and then the men go back without turning around. Just all those simple tikanga things. But for us, it's been a journey of discovery, and research and trying to align the kōrero narratives with what we do, why we do it now. So things now, for us, are based in around tikanga, having a purpose and a reason for doing things. Why are we doing this for? What does this mean? What's the whakapapa connection? Who are the tupuna? So those are things that we are implementing at the moment, as well as- 

     

     

    He tino ngāwari. Kia māmā te haere. He āhua ōrite ki ētahi atu rohe, he mea whakahau mātou e ngā āhuatanga o te taiao me ngā kaupapa o te wā. Hei tauira, he rimurimu ngā kākahu o ngā tāne o ngā tīma o Te Rarawa me Muriwhenua. He maro te rimurimu, ā, ko ngā nekehanga ka whakaahua i te moana, i te taiao tonu. He tikanga kua rerekē i ēnei rā nā te nui o ngā nekehanga, e whai ana ko te kura huna, heoi anō kua ū mātou ki tērā tikanga. Ko tētahi atu tikanga ko te noho pū a te tīma, arā kāore i wāhihia, engari i ēnei rangi ka kitea te tī hangaia me ngā āhua kūaha nekeneke, ērā momo. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Kāore i tino pērā i aua rā. Ko te tikanga ko te noho i ngā rārangi, ka neke whakamua ngā tāne mā roto mai i ngā rārangi, kātahi ka hoki atu, e kore e huri. 

    Ko aua tikanga māmā. He ara whai tuakiri tēnei, he ara rangahau me te whakahāngai i ngā kōrero ki ā mātou mahi. He aha i mahi ai i ēnei mahi? He aha te tikanga o ēnei mahi? He aha te hononga whakapapa? Ko wai ngā tūpuna? Koinā ngā āhuatanga e whakatinanahia ana i te wā nei me te- 

     

    Rawinia:

    An example?

     

    He tauira?

    Sandra:

    The takahi.

     

    Te takahi

    Chris:

    The takahi.

     

    Te takahi.

    Rawinia:

    What’s that?

     

    He aha tērā?

    Sandra:

    The pipi swivel, or the pipi shuffle, as some refer it to.

     

    Te pipi swivel, te pipi shuffle ki ētahi.

    Chris:

    Yeah, so the pipi shuffle, there's other kupu for it, but that was a prominent takahia for our wāhine from up north, but mostly for coastal hapu, for coastal iwi. 

     

    Ko te pipi shuffle te kupu matua mō te takahi a ngā wāhine o te Tai Tokerau, te nuinga o ngā hapū me ngā iwi nōho takutai. 

     

    Rawinia:

    Okay.

     

    Ka pai.

    Chris:

    Another tikanga that I found quite interesting learning was that Tai Tokerau and we used to have a hako.

     

    Ko ētahi atu tikanga pai ko tā Te Tai Tokerau whakamahi I te hako.

    Rawinia:

    Oh.

     

    Nē?

    Chris:

    A hako.

     

    Āe, he hako.

    Rawinia:

    What’s a hako?

     

    He aha te hako?

    Chris:

    A hako would be a person that would lead your group on to the stage. So, in terms of whakaeke, you would start on this one side and as the woman chant, "Ah da da, ah da da da," men would be, "Hurrah ra ta, da da, da da da." But leading them on would be the hako, and he would be making gestures and trying to get laughs out of the crowd. And the crowd would be, "Ah!" And then all of a sudden he'd change it up and serious. And then the group would come on and they'd boom, boom, boom. 

     

    Ko te hako te tangata ārahi i te rōpū i runga i te atamira. I te āhua ki te whakaeke, ka tīmata ki tētahi taha, ko tā ngā wāhine he “ah da da, ah da da,” ko tā ngā tāne he “hurrah ra ta, da da, da da da.” Heoi anō ko te hako ka ārahi i a rātou, ko tāna he karawhiu i ētahi ringa rerekē hei whakangahau i te hunga mātakitaki. Ka mīharo te hunga mātakitaki, kātahi ia ka rerekē anō, ka ōkawa, mea rawa ake kua whakaeke mai te rōpū, ā, kua kēhi. 

    Rawinia:

    Like your uncles in the say.

     

    Pēnei i ō matua kēkē i ngā rā o mua.

    Chris:

    Yeah, sory of, pretty much like that. So that was the style. More simplistic, but then you had these key features or characters like the hako. And so some people enjoyed the performance because they're waiting for the hako. And the hako played a really prominent role in it. So those sort of things have been lost, sort of, because now sometimes we have two rows of hako. 

     

    And I remember Uncle Bub always talked about the hako. And us in Waka Huia, we always made a joke, "Oh, the bros the hako." So those sort of things. 

     

    Another thing I learned was in terms of the original Muriwhenua team, for the men, we'd have two rows of kotiate. 

     

    Āe, pēnā. Koinā te tāera. He māmā engari he kiripuaki, he āhuatanga rānei ka pakō pēnei i te hako. I ōna wā e whanga ana te hunga mātakitaki kia puta mai te hako. He nui te mahi a te hako. Kua āhua ngaro ērā āhuatanga i te mea e rua ngā rārangi hako ināianei. 

     

     

     

     

     

    He kaha tā Uncle Bub kōrero mō te hako. He kōrero kata te hako i waenganui i a mātou o Waka Huia, “Te āhua nei he hako tērā tangata.” Ērā momo āhuatanga. 

     

     

    Ko tētahi atu āhuatanga i ākona ko tā ngā tane o Muriwhenua tū me ngā kotiate, ngā rārangi e rua. 

    Rawinia:

    Oh.

     

    Nē?

    Chris:

    You have two rows of kotiate, which you don't see anyone having two rows of kotiate. And only the kaitātaki had the taiaha or the tewhatewha, so only the leader had the long weapon and the rows of men had the short weapon. 

     

    Āe, e rua ngā rārangi mau kotiate, me uaua ka kitea tērā. Ko te kaitātaki anake e mau ana i te taiaha, i te tewhatewha rānei, māna te rākau roa, mā te rōpū ngā rākau poto. 

                  

    Rawinia:

    Reasons for that?

     

    He aha ai?

    Chris:  

    That was just the tikanga. The leader would be recognized by the long rākau and the men used kotiate. So there's many other narratives that we're researching and stuff, and over time we are going to hopefully implement it. But some of the stuff that we have integrated at the moment is based on narratives of kōrero that relate to us as Muriwhenua. So one korero is ko ngā iwi ō runga, ki te Hiku-o-te-Ika a Muriwhenua. Ko ngā kaitiaki ō Te Rerenga Wairua. So for those of us that reside in the far north, we are known as the guardians of the spiritual realm or the pathway to the spirits. So we've always had this narrative of us being on the whenua amongst the people that walk through.

    So ki ētahi kōrero, the spirit walkers is tētahi momo. So hence we've adapted the ko te puhoro engari ka āhua mā te tai, so just representing our connection to that kōrero.

     

    So through research we are finding old narratives, but we are also trying to initiate and incorporate old kōrero but with a new type of momo. And I suppose it's trying to find a balance between sticking to tikanga and tradition, and still trying to have this edge-

     

     

    Koinā te tikanga. Ka kitea te kaitātaki nā tana karawhiu i te rākau roa, ko te rōpū ka mau i te rākau poto. He nui ngā kōrero pērā e rangahaua ana kia pai ai tā mātou whakatinana. Ko ētahi o ngā āhuatanga kua whakatinanatia kētia, i ahu mai i ngā kōrero mō Muriwhenua. Pēnei i tēnei – Ko ngā iwi o runga, ki te Hiku-o-te-Ika a Muriwhenua. Ko ngā kaitiaki o Te Rerenga Wairua. Mōhiotia ana mātou o te nōta hei kaitiaki i te ao wairua, i te rerenga wairua rānei. Kua roa tēnei kōrero e ora ana mō mātou i runga i te whenua.

     

     

     

     

    Ki ētahi, he momo te hunga hīkoi me ngā wairua. Nā reira i panonihia ai te pūhoro kia āhua mā te tai, hei whakaahua i tō mātou hononga ki tērā kōrero.

     

     

    Kei te kitea mai ngā kōrero o uki i roto i ngā rangahau, ā, kei te tuitui mātou i ērā kōrero tawhito ki ngā tāera hou. Kei te rapu i te kauhanga nui o te ū ki ngā tikanga me te whai kia koi ngā mahi-

     

    Rawinia:

    Yeah. Absolutely.

     

    E mea ana koe.

    Chris:

    That’s appealing to our people-

     

    Kia rata mai te hunga mātakitaki.

    Sandra:

    To the now.

     

    Ki te hunga o nāianei.

    Chris:

    To the now, to our young ones that are out there watching. Also to our kaiwhakawā that are pretty much traditionalists in the mahi. So it's trying to navigate through this space and find what works for us as a whānau.

     

    Te hunga o nāianei, te hunga rangatahi e mātakitaki ana. Waihoki ngā kaiwhakawā, he hunga ū ki ngā tikanga. Nō reira kei te whai i tētahi ara pai mō mātou, mō te whānau.

    Sandra:

    But also knowing that when we do things, there's always a reason or a purpose behind it. We just don't do it because it looks flash, or we don't just do it just because. There's definitely a reason and purpose for doing the things, doing it our way, I guess.

     

    I runga hoki i te mōhio, he take mō ngā mahi katoa. Ehara i te mea ka karawhiua i runga i te pai o te āhua. He take mō ngā mea katoa, e hāngai ana ki a mātou.

    Rawinia:

    So, kei te haere tonu te rangahau?

     

    Nō reira kei te haere tonu te rangahau?

    Sandra:

    Definitely.

     

    Āe marika.

    Rawinia:

    You might be looking towards a part two?

     

    Me aro pea ki te wāhanga tuarua pea.

    Chris:  

    Yeah. Kore mate ēnā mahi. There always the saying that you never stop learning. You never stop because, because the knowledge base is so deep. When we started to research Muriwhenua history, we go back 800, 900 years of kōrero, and whakapapa, and events and things that happened with our different tupunas. I said, "Okay, how can we fit this all into a short performance time?" So probably, yeah, we've got more to learn, more to grow and more to share.

     

    Āe, e kore e mate ēnā mahi. E kore ngā mahi ako e mutu. He hōhonu te puna mātauranga. He 800, 900 tau te roa o ngā kōrero o ngā whakapapa o roto i te hītori o Muriwhenua, ngā kaupapa me ngā mahi a ngā tūpuna katoa. Ko tāku “Ka pēhea tā mātou whakauru i ērā kōrero katoa ki te tū poto?” He nui ngā mea hei ako, hei whanake, hei tuku anō hoki.

    Sandra:  

    Absolutely. And I guess the part that's become a little bit tricky for us is that religion has played a big part in covering or burying our tikanga for haka.

     

     

    E mea ana koe. Ko te mea uaua ko tā te whakapono huna i ngā tikanga haka o konei.

     

    Rawinia:

    Can we talk a bit more about that? Have we got that time?

     

    Kōrero mai mō tēnā? He wā e toe ana?

    Chris:  

    Yeah, I suppose for myself and for my wife, we've seen different rohe who are quite prominent in the mahi, quite strong in the mahi. And we have a look at the history of Tai Tokerau and a lot of the hāhi having strong influence over a lot of our whānau, our marae, our hapū. And so I suppose to an extent, a lot of the mahi had been eroded to a certain extent. But we are fortunate that in some pockets of Tai Tokerau it still remains strong. And so for us, I suppose we are going to have a duty to try to research and try to bring everything back in.

    As we see now, kapa haka is really popular amongst our youth, amongst all reanga. And so we're excited for the future, and as long as we guide our young ones and support them, ones like us, we can sit back and know that we've done the best job that we can to try to make sure that there's some real positive momentum going forward with the teachings of Tai Tokerau haka, Tai Tokerau waiata.

     

    He nui ngā rohe kua kitea e māua ko taku makau, he nui ā rātou mahi, he kaha ā rātou mahi. Ka titiro māua ki te hītori o Te Tai Tokerau, he nui te pānga o te hāhi ki ngā whānau, ngā marae me ngā hapū. Kua āhua rerekē ngā mahi i tērā āhua. Waimarie ana mātou, e kaha tonu ana ngā mahi i roto i ētahi wāhanga o te Tai Tokerau. Nō reira he mahi nui mā mātou te rangahau i ngā kōrero tūturu me te whakahoki mai.

     

     

     

    Kei te rata mai ngā rangatahi ki te kapa haka, ngā reanga o te wā. Hīkaka ana ki te kite i ngā mahi kei mua i te aroaro, engari me mātua tautoko mātou, tō mātou momo, i a rātou, kia tika, kia pai hoki ngā mahi, ngā haka a Te Tai Tokerau me ngā waiata a Te Tai Tokerau.

    Rawinia:

    That was a lot guys, and all the best for that rangahau. Keep sharing, keep doing what you do. Thank you so much for coming today, it's really been an honor and a privilege. We might get you back for part two. But, any last words for our rangitahi out there taking te ao haka?

     

    He nui ērā kōrero e hoa mā, kia kaha kōrua me ā kōrua rangahau. Kia kaha kōrua ki te mahi tonu i ā kōrua mahi me te tuku atu. Tēnā kōrua i ngā mahi i te rā nei, nōku te whiwhi. Me hoki mai pea kōrua mō te wāhanga tuarua. Heoi anō he kupu whakamutunga ā kōrua ki ngā rangatahi whai i te ao haka?

    Chris:  

    Just a big mihi to you all, our next gen. Keep your finger on the button when it comes to performing arts. Go hard in all your mahi. That’s it from me. Thank you all.

     

    E mihi ana ki a koutou, rangatahi mā, taiohi mā. Kia mau ki te kakau o te hoe o ēnei o ngā mahi a Rēhia, a Tāne-Rore. Kia kaha i roto i ngā mahi katoa. Koira tāku. Tēnā koutou, kia ora mai anō tātou.

    Rawinia:

    Kia ora.

    Kia ora.

    Outro:

    Interview closes and fades to black. First shot is of the ocean at sunset, cutting to the road sign for Cape Reinga and Whāngarei. Back to the Whare Rūnanga at Waitangi Treaty grounds. Back to the welcome sig for Kaitaia, back to the beach and then over to a birds eye view of the town centre. Back to a mural and then again with the shot of the sand and waves crashing. Road signs to Ahipara and the a shot of a beautifully carved walkway entrance. A shot of whānau standing in the Ngāpuhi doorway chanting “Tīhei Mauri Ora.” Back to Waitangi Treaty Grounds, then the monument of the boy and dolphin. Another birds eye view of the north, finishing with the logo that reads and of Te Tāhuhu o te Mātauranga.

    [ Accordion ]

    Te Reo Māori

    Te Reo Pākehā

    Nau mai, tau mai e taku manu takiata, taku manu takiwaka o te ao wātea. Tēnā koe e tūrama nei i te ngākau o tangata pūtake runga, pūtake raro, pūtake ira pou tangata, te hōkai-nuku, te hōkai-rangi, te hōkai i ngā ara tapuwae i a Tāne-rore.

     

     

    Tēnā tāua, Tūheimoa, i tēnei rā tā tāua matapaki i te rangi nei mō Te Ao Haka: tō wheako i Te Ao Haka, te orokohanga o tō Ao Haka. He aha pea ō awhero, ō wawata ā haere ake nei i Te Ao Haka? He aha pea hoki ētahi kupu akiaki? Koirā rawa te horopaki whānui o tā tāua kōrero i te rangi nei.

     

     

    Nā, kia whakamahuki mai ki ngā tauira o ngā kura, ko wai koe? He aha hoki te orokohanga o tō Ao Haka?

    Welcome and settle here my morning bird, my medium bird which unlocks the world.

    Thank you for illuminating the hearts of humans who originate from the heavens and earth, the human pillar who journeys about the earth and heaven, the journey which follows the footsteps of Tāne-rore.

     

    Greetings Tūheimoa, today we will discuss Te Ao Haka: your Te Ao Haka experiences and the origins of your Te Ao Haka. What are perhaps some of your Te Ao Haka aspirations and goals moving forward? What are some words of encouragement? That’s the gist of what we will be discussing today.

     

     

    Now, please explain to the students of our schools who you are. How did your Te Ao Haka journey begin?

    Ngā mihi tuatahi ki a koe i whakatau i au i tēnei rā. Ka tika, me mihi atu ki ngā tauira katoa i whai wā te ako i tēnei mea, te haka.

    Firstly, I would like to acknowledge you for welcoming me today. It is only right that I also acknowledge all the students who have chosen to pursue haka.

    Ko Tūheimoa Maruera tōku ingoa. He uri ahau nō Ngāti Ruanui, nō Ngāruahinerangi hoki, nō ngā hapū o Ngāti Tūpito me Ngāti Manu-hiakai, nō ngā marae o Pariroa me Te Aroha o Tītokowaru.

    My name is Tūheimoa Maruera. I descend from Ngāti Ruanui, and Ngāruahinerangi. I am from the subtribes of Ngāi Tūpito and Ngāti Manu-hiakai, and I am from Pariroa and Te Aroha o Tītokowaru marae.

    I tīmata taku orokohanga ki roto i Te Ao Haka, i te kōpū o tōku māmā. Ki reira i tīmata ai. I tōku whānau mai ki tēnei ao, i tuku atu ki Te Kōhanga Reo, Te Kōhanga Reo o Kautu-ki-te-rangi e noho ana ki te marae o Taiporohēnui.

    My Te Ao Haka journey originates from the time when I was still in the womb of my mother. That’s where it all began. Since my birth into this world, I was sent to kōhanga reo, to Kautu-ki-te-rangi kōhanga reo, which is situated at Taiporohēnui marae.

    Ka rua, i haere ki Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Ngāti Ruanui. I noho mō te kotahi wāhanga, kātahi hūnuku tātou ki tētahi kura auraki, ki Te Ramanui, ki roto o Te Hāwera.

    Secondly, I attended Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Ngāti Ruanui. I stayed for one term and then we moved to a mainstream school, to Te Ramanui which is in Te Hāwera.

    Ki reira i noho mō ngā tau e ono, kātahi hūnuku ki Pātea. I noho ki Te Kura o Pātea, ko tērā kapa, ko Pārara ki Te Uru

    I stayed there for six years before moving to Pātea. I attended Te Kura o Pātea, and the group called Pārara ki Te Uru.

    Pārara ki Te Uru, kia ora.

    Pārara ki Te Uru, thank you.

    Pārara ki Te Uru, te ingoa o te puna o Turi. I ngā wā o mua i roto hoki taku pāpā i roto i tērā kapa.

    Pārara ki Te Uru is the name of Turi’s pond. In yesteryears my father was also in that group.

    Nē? Koirā tonu tōna kura?

    Ka pai.

    Really? Was that his school?

    Wow.

    Āe

    Yes.

    Atu i Te Kura o Pātea, i haere ki Te Kura Takawaenga o Te Hāwera. I tū hei kaihaka mō rātou, ka mutu, ki Te Wharekura o Ngāti Ruanui, ki roto i te kapa o Te Kūreitanga. 

    Other than Pātea School, I attended Te Hāwera Intermediate. I was a performer for them at that school, furthermore I was also performer for Te Kūreitanga group at Te Wharekura o Ngāti Ruanui.

    Nā te kōtui o ngā kura Aho Matua o Taranaki: mai Te Pi’ipi’inga o Ngā Kakano mai i Rangiātea, Ngāruahinerangi me Ngāti Ruanui, koirā mō te kura. Mō ngā kapa pakeke, ko Ngāti Ruanui ki Taranaki Tū mai, Aotea Utanganui, ki ngā w’akataetae ā-motu, ā-rohe hoki. Me te karapu o Pātea.

    Due to the interlinking between the Aho Matua schools of Taranaki: From Te Pi’ipi’inga o Ngā Kākano mai i Rangiātea, Ngāruahinerangi and Ngāti Ruanui. Those are the schools. In regards to senior groups, there’s Ngāti Ruanui ki Taranaki Tū mai, Aotea Utanganui who have participated in regional and national competitions. Pātea club as well.

    Tēnā koe, tēnā koe me tēnā te orokohanga o tō Ao Haka. Ka hoki atu ki te orokohanga rā anō, arā, i te kōpū. Ko wai tō whaea? He aha i kī ai koe i tīmata Te Ao Haka i te kōpū o tō whaea?

    Thank you for giving a brief explanation regarding the inception of your Haka world. Now, let’s return back to the beginning, to the womb. Who is your mother? Why did you say that your Te Ao Haka journey originated from when you were in your mother’ womb?

    Ko Janine Maruera tōku māmā. I te wā i noho au ki tōna kōpū, i te parakatihi ia mō tētahi kapa - ko Tūtahi Manawatū pea? Tētahi o ngā kapa.

    My mother is Janine Maruera. While I was still in her womb, she was practising for one of the groups, perhaps for Tūtahi Manawatū?

    Āe, āe, mahara au, āe.

    Yes indeed, I remember.

    Engari, kāore anō ia i tū nā te mea i puta mai au ki te ao. Nā reira, kāore ia e taea te whai wā te tū engari kei reira tonu mātou.

    But she didn’t end up taking the stage because she had given birth to me. Therefore, even though she wasn’t able to perform, we were still present.

    Kia ora, kia ora. Nā, ka puta ia i tērā kapa, i whai wheako koe? E mahara ana koe ki tērā kapa? Tūtahi Manawatū?

    Thank you. Once she left that group, did you learn any new experiences? Do you remember that group Tūtahi Manawatū?

    Āe, nā te mea kei reira tonu a Te Tū Mataora

    Yes, because Te Tū Mataora is still there.

    Kia ora, koirā te kapa hou i ahu mai i Tūtahi Manawatū? Kia ora i tēnā whakapapa.

    Thank you, is that the new group which was born from Tūtahi Manawatū? Thank you for explaining that genealogy.

    Āe, āe ko rātou hoki tō mātou whānau, tō mātou kapa teina me kī, tuakana aha atu. Āe, he whānau tahi tātou katoa.

    Yes, they are also our family, let’s say our junior group, senior group or whatever. We are all one family.

    Ka pai, a, ko Te Tū Mataora te kapa, ko tēhea rohe tēnā?

    That’s good so Te Tū Mataora is the group, from which region?

    Ki Rangitāne.

    From Rangitāne.

    Ki Rangitāne, ka pai. Nā, he aha - ka hoki mai a māmā ki roto ki Taranaki, nē? Ki Aotea Utanganui? Kei te tika tēnā? Ka pai. Tēnā, korerohia mai tērā ao.

    From Rangitāne, awesome. So, your mother returned to Taranaki, right? To Aotea Utanganui? Is that correct? Great. Please, further elaborate.

    Āe.I tūtaki aku mātua ki te karapu o Pātea, ki reira rāua e tūtaki ai. Nā reira, he hōnore nui ki te hoki atu, he hōnore mōku, kia tū hei kaihaka mō rātou. Nā rātou i poipoi i tēnei, nā ngā kuia a Nanny Bib, Nanny Bub, Koro Del - rātou katoa.

    Yes, my parents met at the Pātea club. Therefore, it’s a huge privilege to be able to return there, it’s a privilege to be able to stand as a performer. They all nurtured me, all the elderly women, Nanny Bib, Nanny Bub, Koro Del - all of them.

    Nā rātou tēnei i poipoi, mei kore mō rātou, ka kore rawa au e noho ki tēnei hei kanohi mō Taranaki. Nā reira, ko tōku waimarie nō Taranaki ahau, he kaihaka nō Aotea.

    They brought me up and I’m lucky to have them. I would never have been able to be a spokesperson for Taranaki. Therefore, I am fortunate that I am from Taranaki, and that I am a performer from Aotea.

    Āna, āna. Tēnā, he aha ētahi o ngā wheako i wheakohia e koe, i a koe e pakeke mai ana i te kapa o Aotea Utanganui, oti noa tēnā kaupapa rongonui tērā tikanga, tērā waka o Pātea Māori Club?

    Right, right. Now, what are some of the experiences that you experienced while you were growing up within the Aotea Utanganui group, moreover, while you grew up within the traditions of that famous group Pātea Māori Club?

    Ko tētahi mea ko te waiata.

    One thing was singing.

    Ko te waiata.

    Singing?

    Ko te mahi waiata, ehara i te mea me noho koe ki konei, koinei te note. Kāo - me noho ki te taha o te kuia, w’akarongo, kei a koe te tikanga.

    When learning to sing, it’s not as if you have to stay on this note or that note. No, you sit with the elderly women to listen and it’s up to you.

    Ka pai. Ko wai ētahi o ōu tino tauira waiata?

    That’s great. Who are some of your favourite singing role models?

    Nanny Bib.

    Nanny Bib.

    Nē?

    Is that right?

    Nā runga i tana reo teitei. I noho au ki tōna taha, he hōnore nui rawa atu tērā nā te mea, i ēnei rā kāore anō e mahi ērā, ētehi, ētehi.

    It’s due to her soprano voice. I sat with her, and that was an honour because nowadays that tradition isn’t really followed.

    Tika tonu ō kōrero, kāore he reo reka atu i te reo o tērā o ngā kapa. Tēnā, he aha tētahi o ōu tino waiata i a koe e pakeke mai ana?

    You are absolutely correct, there’s no better voice than that of that group. Now, what are some of your favourite songs while you were growing up?

    He maha.

    There are many.

    Ngā mea o Pātea Māori Club.

    Those of Pātea Māori Club.

    ‘Poi Harakeke’.

    Poi Harakeke

    He aha te…. Kāore au i te mōhio.

    What is that song? It’s unfamiliar.

    [Ka waiata – 7:07]

    [Sings waiata]

    Koirā te whiti tuatahi.

    That’s the first verse.

    Te rerehua hoki Tūheimoa, me waiata pea mō te toenga o tēnei uiui, nē. Tēnā koe, tēnā koe i tō reo pāororo, tō reo tīorooro, iere rā i runga, tōiri, me te mea nei ko Nanny Bib tonu, nē, e puta ana i tō māngai. Ka mutu pea, Tūheimoa! Ka pai.

    Nā, mutu ana me huri te aro ki ō wheako i roto i te kura, nē? I roto i te kura. Nā, i kuraina koe i te kura auraki, te kura aunoa. Ko wai ō kaiako i roto i te kura aunoa?

    That’s beautiful Tūheimoa. I think that you should sing that for the remainder of the interview, aye? Thank you, thank you for the resounding voice, your high-pitched voice, soprano voice, and it’s as if it’s Nanny Bib who is singing. Awesome, Tūheimoa! Awesome.

    Now, let’s turn to focus on your experiences while you were at school, okay? Now at school, you attended a mainstream school. Who were your teachers at mainstream school?

    Ko ōku kaiako kapa haka, ko ōku mātua nā te mea i reira au. Koirā te take i noho rāua hei kaiako mō tērā kura. Ia te wā i nuku au, i nuku rāua hoki, nā reira, ki Te Ramanui, ki Pātea, ki Te Hāwera tae noa ki Te Kūreitanga.

    My kapa haka tutors were my parents because I was there. That’s the reason that they both remained as teachers for that school. Everytime that I moved, they also moved. From Te Ramanui, to Pātea, to Te Hāwera all the way to Te Kūreitanga.

    I reira taku pāpā e tangi ana i te rakuraku, engari i reira a māmā hei noho hei kaiwhakawā. He uaua tērā nā te mea he maha ō rāua wheako me whai e au. He taumaha anō hoki engari i wepua mō te hemo tonu atu. Ko te mea nui i mataara, i noho ki reira.

    My father was there playing the guitar, but my mother was always there to critique. That was difficult at times because they both had a lot of experience that I had to follow. It was also demanding because we were thrashed. But the main thing is that we were alert and remained there.

    Ko ō mātua ō kaiako i roto i te kura aunoa me tō whāki mai, āe, he uaua i ētahi wā, nē, kaha wepua. Engari, he aha pea ētahi o ō rautaki i āhei ai koe te tū maia, te tū pakari tonu ki te whakaputa i tō rerehua, i tō reo, i ngā waiata, i ngā ringa. He aha ō rautaki?

    Your parents were your teachers at mainstream school, and you mentioned that yes, it was difficult at times right, because you were thrashed. But what were perhaps some of the strategies that you used to stand confidently and strong in order to display your beauty, voice, song and actions? What were your strategies?

    Tuatahi, whakarongo.

    First and foremost, to listen.

    Ka pai.

    Right.

    He w’akarongo ki ōku mātua engari he mea tino rerekē rawa atu. Mēnā i te noho ōku mātua ki tēnei taha, ka noho au ki tērā atu taha. Ka huna, ka huna au mai i ōku mātua, engari i pai nā te mea te nuinga o ngā tamariki, koia tā rāua tamāhine, ka tū ia ki mua. Ehara i te mea he pai tērā ki au, kei te mahi tonu au, kei te puku kaha au i roto i ēnei mahi. Āe, koirā.

    To listen to your parents but it was also quite different. If my parents were sitting on this side, I would sit on the other side. I would hide away from my parents. But it was okay because the majority of the children were their daughters, they would stand in front. It wasn’t as if I took a liking to it, but I still did the work and I worked hard. That’s it.

    Nō reira, i kaha whakatūngia koe hei kaitātaki, hei tuakana i whakatuakanahia koe i roto i ērā āhuatanga, nā māmā me pāpā koe i pērā ai engari he pai tonu tērā nē?

    Therefore, were you put forward as a leader? As a senior performer? Were you put into a senior role within kapa haka? Was it like that because of your parents? Did you like that?

    Āe

    Yes.

    Āe, ka pai. Nā, he aha pea ētahi o ngā wheako, ngā waiaro pea i wheakohia e koe i ērā atu tangata, i ērā atu o ō hoa? He aha pea ō rātou waiaro ki a koe i roto i ērā horopaki mahi?

    Right. What were perhaps some of the experiences and attitudes that you experienced from others? From your friends? Within this context, what was their attitude towards you like?

    Ētehi i rawe, i tū ki tōku taha ki te mahi tonu. Engari, ētehi, āe, kāore i te pai ki au. Engari, ki ōku nei whakaaro, i kite rātou i te mahi tonu au.

    Some were really good and stood beside me to carry on. But others, they weren’t so good. But I believe that they still observed doing the work.

    I te pukumahi au nā reira i pukumahi rātou. Koirā te mea nui mōku ki roto i Te Ao Haka, kia pukumahi i roto i ngā mea katoa: te reo waiata, ngā mahi ā-ringa. Ahakoa ka kī mai te kaiako 50%, me 100% i ngā wā katoa. Koirā mōku, i ngā mahi ā-kanohi, ērā hoki, wairua, te tinana, ngā taha katoa o te ao kapa me tukua ki taumata kē.

    I worked hard, and so did they. That’s the main thing in Te Ao Haka. To work hard in everything that you do: the language, the singing, the actions. Regardless of if the tutor says 50%, you should give it 100% all the time. That’s what I think, from your facials, right down to the ethos, the body language, and all aspects of kapa haka, you should go beyond.

    Ka pai, karawhiua katoatia 150%. Ka pai.

    Awesome, give it your all 150%.

    150%.

    150%.

    Ka pai. Tēnā koe i ērā rautaki, oti noa, i ērā momo tauira katoa nei, hei whāngai, hei tauira pea ki ō hoa e whanake mai ana i tēnei ao. Nā, ka whanake ake koe ki ngā kura auraki, ka hoki koe ki roto ki te kura kaupapa. He aha ētahi o ngā tikanga i rerekē pea ai te kura aunoa, ki ngā mahi o roto i te kura kaupapa Māori?

    Great. Thank you for sharing those strategies, more over thank you for sharing those examples with your friends who are coming through. Now, once you went to mainstream schools, did you ever return to kura kaupapa? What perhaps are some of the traditions which are different in mainstream and kura kaupapa Māori?

    Ko tētahi mea nui rawa atu, engari he rawe mōku, ko te reo Māori. I reo Māori te katoa o ngā w’akaharatau - i rawe tērā ki au. Me ngā waiata, me ngā kaupapa o ia o ngā waiata, mēnā ko Parihaka, ko te Pāhuatanga, te reo Māori, te Aho Matua, te raukura. Ērā mea katoa, i rawe ērā kaupapa ki au.

    One of the major differences is the Māori language which I like. All practices were conducted in the Māori language, and I really liked that. I also took a liking to the songs and the themes of each song. For instance, if it was Parihaka, the confiscation, the Māori language, Te Aho Matua, the sacred emblem. I love all those themes.

    Me te kōrero i te reo Māori ki ia o ngā w’akaharatau i pakeke ake tōku reo, ehara i te mea I roto i te akomanga noa iho, ki waho. I maumahara au ki tō tātou tū tuatahi, ko tō tātou poi ko “Te Rā o Māehe”. Koirā te wā tuatahi kua rangona au i tērā waiata me taku tangi nā te mea, i whakaaro “he ai kāore au i ako i tēnei i mua”. 

    And the fact that we spoke Māori at each practice helped to develop my language. It wasn’t just in the classroom, but outside as well. I remember our first performance; it was our poi “Te Rā o Māehe”. That was the first time that I had heard that song, and I cried because I thought to myself, “why had I not learnt this song earlier”.

    Engari, i waimarie nā te mea i ako ki reira, ki raro i te maru o Whaea Ngāpera. Nā reira, i pai tērā ahakoa i rerekē ki ngā kapa o Aotea ko tātou tērā, ko Te Kūreitanga tērā, ko Te Kāhui Maunga - koirā te mea pai rawa atu ki au.

    But I was fortunate that I learnt it there, under the guidance of Whaea Ngāpera. Therefore, it was alright despite being different to those groups of Aotea, that was us, Te Kūreitanga, Te Kāhui Maunga - that was the most enjoyable part to me.

    Ka pai. Tēnā, he aha ētahi atu o ngā mahi, i tua atu o ngā akoranga i rongo i rō kopa, ka kuhu atu koe ki te takiwā o kapa haka, engari kia pakari ai koe i roto i ngā mahi kapa haka, he aha ētahi atu anō?

     

    I te mea, e mōhio ana au he kura parore haere tō kura, ēnei kura Aho Matua. He aha ētahi atu o ngā kaupapa, ngā momo huihuinga o Taranaki i whakapakari tō māramatanga ki ngā mea i te hakaina e koe?

    Great. What else did you do? Other than the lessons learnt within your own house, once you enter the realm of kapa haka, you mature in kapa haka, but is there anything else?

     

     

     

    Because I know that your school is an Aho Matua school that travels around. What are some of the events and occasions in Taranaki that you attended which helped to give you understanding to the haka which you performed?

    I te tau 2018 i tīpako tētahi kaiako i au kia haere ki Te Arawa mō tētahi wānanga a Te Matatini mō ngā rangatahi. I noho ki reira mō te kotahi wiki. Ki reira, i noho ki te taha o ngā kaihaka o te kura, me te whakarongo ki a rātou me te rerekētanga a te mita, te takahi, te aha atu, aha atu.

    In 2018, one of the teachers chose me to attend a Te Matatini symposium in Te Arawa for teenagers. We stayed there for one week. While there, we intermingled with performers of the school, listening to them, the different dialects, the stamping of the foot and many other things.

    Te reo, ngā momo reo kei roto i a tātou, ngā momo kaupapa ka kōrero engari, i rawe nā te mea i whakarongo ki tangata rerekē ki roto i Te Ao Haka. Tō tātou iho pumanawa pērā i a Hera

    The language, the type of language that they used, the variety of themes that were discussed, but it was awesome because we were able to listen to different people within the realm of Te Ao Haka. Our kapa haka idol Hera, was also one.

    Te Kurapa?

    Te Kurapa?

    Āe mai i Muriwhenua

    Yes, from Muriwhenua.

    He aha tāna? He aha tētahi o āna pitopito kōrero?

    What did she have to say? What’s one thing that she spoke about?

    Ko te mea nui ko tāna tū mōna, nā te mea ki te uru atu ia ki roto i tētahi rūma ka tiro, nā tōna ātaahua anō hoki mō tōna mātauranga ki roto i Te Ao Haka. Ia te rā ko tētahi tangata rerekē pērā i a Wetini Mitai-Ngātai, i rawe, i rawe āna kōrero. 

    The main thing was standing for herself. When she enters the room, due to her beauty she catches your attention, and also her knowledge of Te Ao Haka. Every day there was a different speaker like Wetini Mitai-Ngātai, he was excellent, his presentation was awesome.

    Nā reira, i hoki atu ki te kura me te hora i ēnei mātauranga kia pai ake tā mātou mātauranga i roto i Te Ao Haka, ehara mōku anake. Koirā te mea pai rawa atu ki au hoki.

    Therefore, I returned to school to share what I had learnt so that our knowledge of Te Ao Haka would improve, it wasn’t for me to keep it to myself. That was one of the positives as well.

    Ka pai, rawe tērā tauira me te mea he kaupapa kia whakamahia a Te Matatini mō te wheako i whai i a koutou. Ko wai ētahi atu o ō hoa i haere i tō taha?

    That’s good, these examples are awesome, and it’s only right that we acknowledge Te Matatini for this experience that you were a part of. Who were some of your friends who attended alongside yourself?

    Ko Amokura Maruera ētahi, ko wai atu? Te Huikau, ko Bazz mai i te kapa o Raukura - nō kapa rerekē tātou katoa. Wātene nō Ngā Mokopuna, Neis nō tētahi atu kura. 

    Amokura Maruera was one, who else? Te Huikau, Bazz from Raukura - everyone was all from different groups. Wātene from Ngā Mokopuna, and Neis from another school.

    Engari nā te kotui i a tātou katoa i mōhio tātou e ngākaunui ana tēnei mea te kapa haka, koirā noa iho, koirā te take kei konei tātou. Ētahi nō Wanganui, tō tātou kura tuakana a Tupoho, a Kokohuia hoki i reira hoki rātou mō tēnei kaupapa e manakonui ana.

    But it was due to connecting us all knowing that we were all passionate about kapa haka, that was all, that’s the reason that we attended. There were some from Wananganui, from our senior school of Tupoho, there were also some from Kokohuia who also had a desire for this occasion.

    Ka rawe. Nā, hoki mai ki te kāinga: he aha ētahi o ngā kaupapa o te kāinga e whakaihiihi ana i a koe i te wā ka tū koe ki te waiata pena i a “Te Rā o Māehe”. He aha tētahi kaupapa i whai māramatanga ai koe ki te horopaki o tērā waiata?

    Awesome. Now let’s return back here to home: What are some of the events here at home which ignite you when you stand to perform, for example “Te Rā o Māehe”. What are some events or occasions which help you to understand the context of that song?

    Ko te tū o Ngāti Ruanui ki Taranaki Tū Mai. I tū mō te waiata “Kāore te Pō.”

    It was when Ngāti Ruanui ki Taranaki Tū mai performed. They performed “Kāore te Pō”.

    Āe

    Yes.

    I rawe nā te mea he rerekē - kāore anō kua rangona i tērā engari i rawe te whakapuaki i ngā kōrero. Āe, ki te tangi, aha atu, engari te whakapuaki o kare ā-roto. Anō hoki ko tētahi waiata, ko te waiata tira “He Kororia”. 

    I really enjoyed it because it was different - I had never heard that song before but the delivery of the song was really good. Yes, crying and so on, but expressing those feelings. In addition to this, the choral “He Korōria”. 

    Nā, reira he hononga o Ruaputahanga ki a Turongo, tō tātou hononga ki roto i a Waikato. He rawe ērā kōrero ki au: te hononga, te whakapapa. Ko te mahi kapa haka tētahi mea e taea ana te mārama mōku i roto i ngā waiata, i ngā mōteatea, i ngā haka koirā te mea nui.

    Now, Ruaputahanga is connected to Tūrongo, our connection to Waikato. I really like those oral histories, the connections, the genealogy. Kapa haka is a vehicle that helps me find understanding within songs, traditional chants, and haka. That is the main thing.

    Ka pai, tēnā koe i tēnā whakamārama. Nā, kua huri te ihu o tō tāua waka kōrero ināianei ki tō ao whakataetae. I tīmata te whakataetae - pēhea tō pakeke i a koe ka tīmata ki te whakataetae i Te Ao Haka?

    That’s awesome, thank you for that explanation. Now, let’s focus more on competition. How old were you when you first started competing in Te Ao Haka?

    I Te Ao Haka – e 9 pea? Ki Te Ramanui mō te Tātarakihi

    In Te Ao Haka? Maybe 9? At Te Ramanui for Tātarakihi.

    Tatarakihi, he aha rā tēnei kaupapa, a Tātarakihi?

    Tātarakihi, what is that event, Tātarakihi?

    Ko te whakataetae mō ngā tamariki o Taranaki, te whakataetae ā-rohe. I rawe ērā nā te mea i harikoa. Ehara i te mea ko te whakataetae te mea nui.

    This is a regional competition for children of Taranaki. Those were awesome because it was a happy time. It’s not as if competing was the overall goal.

    Āe, āe, ehara i te mea he whakataetae i te wā tuatahi, maumahara au ki te mea tuatahi i te Bowl of Brooklyn’s. Wareware au ki taku pakeke engari, ehara i te mea he whakataetae i tēnā wā. 

     

    Nā, ka whanake ake koe i roto i te Tātarakihi, he aha te whakataetae ka whai ake i tērā o ngā whakataetae i Taranaki nei?

    Yes indeed, it’s not as if competition comes first, I still remember my first competition at the Bowl of Brooklyn’s. I forget how old I was, and it may not have been a competition at that time. 

     

     

    Now, as you developed within Tātarakihi, what competition within Taranaki succeeded that?

    Mō Aotea Utanganui,

    For Aotea Utanganui.

    He mea motuhake kei reira.

    It was one specific to the area.

    Tekau mā whā taku pakeke i tū ki roto o Wanganui.

    I was 14 when I performed at Wanganui.

    Arohamai, mō Aotea Utanganui kapa tuakana? Ā, 14 tō pakeke i roto i ngā whakataetae o Aotea?

    Forgive me, for Aotea Utanganui senior group? Were you 14 when you competed at Aotea regionals?

    Āe

    Yes.

    Ka pai. 14? Wow! Pēhea i tētahi whakataetae tuakana he aha ngā kare a roto i roto I a koe i tērā wā?

    Awesome. 14? Wow! Considering that it was a senior competition, how were your feelings at that time?

    I mataku rawa atu.

    I was completely terrified.

    He aha i mataku ai koe?

    Why were you terrified?

    Nā te mea ko ōku mātua ngā kaiako, anō hoki he kaihaka hou. I au e tamariki ana, ko au tērā e oma ana i waenga i ngā rārangi, e oma ana ki te taha o ōku kaihanga, aha atu. Engari, koirā taku tau tuatahi hei kaihaka. I uaua, i pukuriri ētahi wā nā te mea i whakaaro au ka kore rawa au e whai tūnga

    Because my parents were the tutors, and I was also a new performer. When I was younger, that was me running around in between the lines, running around with my cousins and whatnot. But that was my first time standing as a performer. It was difficult and frustrating at times because I thought that I wouldn’t make the cut.

    He aha i whakaaro ai koe i tēnā momo whakaaro?

    Why would you think like that?

    Kia pono aku kōrero, i te mangere te tuatahi, i mangere nā te mea i whakaaro koinei aku mātua, ka tuku au ki mua mō ngā noho e rua. Atu i tērā, i tīni aku whakaaro kia pukumahi, nā te mea kei te pukumahi te katoa. Kei te waiata rātou mōku, kia kaua e pērā, me waiata rātou mō rātou anake. Me waiata au, mō au. Koirā ngā mahi.

    I must be honest, firstly being lazy. I was lazy because those were my parents, they sent me to the front for two of the practices. From there, I then changed my thought process to be hard working, because everyone else was working hard. They are singing for me, and it shouldn’t be like that. They should sing for themselves, and me for myself. That’s the job.

    Ka pai. Nō reira, i tīmata ngā whakaaro, i pakeke ake ngā w’akaaro i taua wā i te mea he tauira i roto i tērā kapa hei whāinga mōu. Ko wai ētahi o ōu tino tauira? Āe, kua kōrerohia a Nan Bib mō te taha ki te waiata. Ko wai pea ētahi o ō tauira kaihaka?

    Okay. So, the thoughts started to mature at that time because there was an example set within the group that you wanted to achieve for yourself? Who were your idols? Yes, you previously mentioned Nan Bib for singing. Who are perhaps some of your performer idols?

    Ki roto o Aotea Utanganui, ko Aunty Sharon. Āe, he tangata noho ki muri engari ki te mōhio ia ki ōna mahi, ka wepua, ka kī ki te kapa “koinei taku tūnga - ki te pirangi koe i tēnei me whawhai”.

    Within Aotea Utanganui, there’s Aunty Sharon. She is the type of person who will sit at the back, but she knows her stuff, she will trash everyone and say to the group, “this is my spot - if you want it then you’ll have to battle me for it”.

    Ka pai, ka pai. Nā, he aha ētahi o ō tino whakataetae i tae atu koe i tō Aotea Utanganui taha?

    Amazing. Now what are some of your favourite competitions that you have attended alongside Aotea Utanganui?

    Ko te tū ki Rātana.

    Our stand at Rātana.

    Ko te tū ki Rātana. He tū ki ngā whakataetae ā-rohe tēnā? Ka pai, i nā tata tonu nei tēnā nē?

    Your performance at Rātana. Was that the regional performance? That was just held recently, right?

    Āe, āe. I rawe tērā.

    Yes indeed, that was awesome.

    He aha i rawe ai?

    Why was it awesome?

    Nā te mea i pakeke aku whakaaro, i pakeke taku tū. Ki te tiro au ki tērā mea ki Wanganui, ki te taha o tēnei mea ki Rātana, he rerekē rawa atu. He tangata rerekē, he tangata e mōhio ana ki ngā kaupapa o ngā waiata - ehara i te mea kei te waiata mō te waiata noa iho. He kaupapa - koirā te mea e whakapuaki nei e au.

    Because my thoughts and performance have matured. If I were to look back at that performance at Wanganui and compare them both, they are totally different. They are different people. There’s a person who knows what they are singing about, and not just singing for the sake of singing. That’s what I’m trying to say.

    Ka pai. He aha ētahi o ngā kaupapa i tērā o ngā tū? Kāore e kore he kaupapa nui i te mea kua tae atu ki Rātana.

    Okay. What were some of the themes of that performance? There’s no doubt that there were some major topics of discussion which were taken to Rātana.

    Ko te poi tētahi mea tino rerekē, e kōrero ana mō te maina papa moana.

    The poi was one thing which was different, it spoke about mining out at sea.

    I roto o Pātea?

    At Pātea?

    Āe, i roto o Pātea. He kaupapa hōhonu engari i rawe te tuku atu ki te marea. Koinei tā mātou raru, haere mai ki te tautoko, ka whawhai tonu mō te whenua, mō te moana. Nā te moana tātou i whāngai, me whāngai tātou i te moana.

    Yes, within Pātea. It was quite an in-depth topic but it was wonderful how the message was conveyed to the multitudes. That’s one of our problems, we come to support, we continue to fight for the land and ocean. It is the ocean which provides us with sustenance, so it’s only right that we reciprocate that.

    Koirā te mea… te kaupapa o te waiata. Anō hoki, ko ngā karakia pēnei i a ‘Hiki’, i a ‘Kī mai’, i uru atu ki roto i tēnei waiata.

    That was it, the theme of the song. There was also the karakia like ‘Hiki’ and ‘Kī mai’ which were used within the song.

    Ka pai. He aha te take i whakaurua ērā waiata, ērā karakia, ērā poi atua ki roto ki tērā o ngā waiata?

    That’s good. What was the reason behind using those karakia within the song, using those poi atua within that song?

    Nā te mea he taonga nui ērā, he taonga nui hoki te moana ki a tātou, ki Pātea. Ko te moana ko tātou. Ko ēnei poi atua, ēnei poi karakia he taonga anō hoki. Anō hoki, he rerekē ki te nuinga o tātou i whakaaro, tērā pea, ki te kotui i ēnei, ka tuku ki tētahi whakataetae, ka whakarongo.

    Because those are great treasures, the ocean is also a great treasure to us of Pātea. We are one with the ocean. These poi atua, these poi karakia are also treasures. It’s different from everyone else, we were thinking that if we intertwine these and perform at a competition, everyone will be able to hear.

    Āna, me te aha ko te horopaki tonu o ērā karakia, he horopaki moana, nē?

    Right, and as a result the context of those karakia are related to the ocean, right?

    Āe

    Yes.

    He horopaki waka nō reira e tino hāngai ana ki tērā kaupapa. Ka pai, ka koke atu, ka hoki ki tērā atu taha whakataetae ōu i roto i te kura tuarua. He aha ētahi o ngā wheako i wheakohia? He aha ētahi o ngā whakataetae i tae atu koutou i Te Kūreitanga?

    The context is the canoe therefore it relates to that theme. Great, now let’s move forward, let’s return to that other side of yours, competing at secondary school. What are some experiences? What competitions did Te Kūreitanga make it to?

    I au i roto i Te Kūreitanga, i tū ki Wanganui mō tētahi whakataetae ā-rohe, ki te whakataetae ā-motu ki Te Papaioea. Ka mutu, ko taku tūnga whakamutunga ki Ōpunake.

    While I was at Te Kūreitanga, we stood at a regional competition which was held in Wanganui and a national competition held in Palmerston North. Furthermore, that was my final performance in Ōpunake.

    Ki Ōpunake.

    In Ōpunake.

    Mō tētahi whakataetae ā-rohe. Mō ngā tau e rua i noho au, i tū au hei kaitātaki ki te taha o Tatiana rāua ko Tika, me tō tātou hononga i rawe te tū. I te mōhio kei konei au mō rāua, i reira hoki rāua mōku. Ki te pērā, ka rawe ngā mea katoa.

    For a regional competition. For the duration of the two years while I was there, I was also the leader alongside Tatiana and Tika. And our connection, the performance was awesome. We knew that I was there to back them both up and vice versa. And if it’s like that, then everything will be amazing.

    He aha te take e rua ngā kaitātaki wahine?

    What was the reason behind having two female leaders?

    Kāore au i te tino mōhio, engari mōku i pai nā te mea i taurite i ngā mea kia kaua e taumaha ki runga i te kotahi tangata. Ahakoa ko Tika anake, i reira hoki māua, māua ko Tatiana.

    I don’t really know, but it was good for me because everything was balanced, and the burden wasn’t left to just one person to carry. Even though Tika was the only male leader, Tatiana and I were both there to support him.

    Ka pai, tokotoru. Tino pakari tonu koutou, mahara ana ki tēnā wā. Nō reira, i Te Papaioea, koirā tā koutou… He aha te ingoa o taua whakataetae i Te Papaioea?

    Great, three leaders. You are all quite strong, I still remember that performance. Now, this was in Palmerston North, what was the name of the competition in Palmerston North?

    He Puapua.

    He Puapua.

    He Puapua, he haka kua wareware i au.

    He Puapua, a haka, I’ve forgotten.

    Me au hoki.

    Me as well.

    Nā, he aha te kaupapa o tō koutou tū i tērā tau?

    Now what was the main theme of your performance that year?

    Ko Taranaki, Taranaki te take o tō mātou tū. Ko te waiata tira e kōrero ana mō ngā kōrero o Parihaka.

    It was Taranaki, Taranaki was the backbone of our performance. The choral spoke about the oral histories of Parihaka.

    He aha rawa? He maha ngā kōrero mō Parihaka. He aha te aronga matua?

    What exactly? There are many oral histories regarding Parihaka. What was the main focus?

    ‘Ko taku raukura, he manawanui ki te ao’.

    ‘My sacred emblem is an assurance to the world’.

    Ka pai

    Great.

    ‘He rau rengarenga nō roto o te raukura’. Āe, ko te whakaeke ko tō mātou hononga ki Te Papaioea, ki Rangitane, ki ngā uri o Whātonga.

    ‘A herb of healing from the sacred emblem’. Yes, our entrance was our connection to Palmerston North, to Rangitāne, to the descendants of Whātonga.

    Ka pai, ko wai te waka?

    Awesome, which waka?

    Kurahaupo

    Kurahaupō.

    Ka pai, koirā hoki te painga, nē? Ahakoa ko Aotea, nō Aotea ngā kura o Ngāti Ruanui, o Ngā Rua’ine, nā te piripiri ki ngā kura o te raki, ka whanui ake te titiro ki Taranaki whānui, ka ako i ērā kura katoa. 

     

     

    Ka pai, he aha rā te mōteatea? Te waiata tawhito.

    Sorry, repeat that again. No, it’s ok, that’s one of the advantages, right? Regardless of if it’s Aotea, the schools Ngāti Ruanui, Ngā Rua’ine are from Aotea, but due to working with schools in the north and the wider region of Taranaki, all the schools learn that.

     

    Ok, what was the traditional chant?

    ‘He poi rokiroki.’

    ‘He poi rokiroki’.

    Tēnā, he aha te ‘Poi rokiroki’?

    Now what is ‘Poi rokiroki’.

    He poi karakia me kī, he poi e kōrero ana mōu.

     

    Āe, ko koe tērā e tuku ana i ngā kōrero engari ka waiho mā te poi e whakapuaki i ngā kare ā-roto

    Let’s say that it is a karakia, it is a poi that speaks about yourself.

     

    Yes, it is you who is giving the oral story but it is left up to your poi to exhibit the emotions.

    Tika rawa atu. Ka pai, nā, he aha hoki te horopaki, he aha rawa rānei te karere i te tukuna i roto i tērā o ngā poi rokiroki?

    That is absolutely correct. Great, now what exactly was the context of the message that was portrayed in the poi rokiroki?

    Ko Te Puapua me ngā pakanga, ētahi o Waitara me te manu

    Te Puapua and the battles, those in Waitara And the bird.

    Me te manu

    And the bird.

    Koirā taku tino ko te manu

    The bird was my favourite.

    Ka pai, ka pai – ‘ko taku poi, he manu’, nē? Koirā hoki tētahi whakamāramatanga pea ki ā tātou hoa nē, ko tō tātou poi e poi nei tātou he momo manu tuku karere.

    Right, right - ‘my poi is a bird’, right?

    That’s one of the explanations to our friends, that our poi is likened to that of a bird which carries a message.

    Āe

    Yes.

    Ka pai, pai tēnā. Nā, he aha rā te waiata ā-ringa?

    Awesome. Now what about the action song?

    E kōrero ana mō ngā amo taketake o te maunga.

    It speaks about the amo taketake of the mountain. 

    Ka pai, he aha te amo taketake?

    Ok, what is that the amo taketake?

    Pēnei i ngā tangata a Huirangi, Koro Huirangi Waikerepuru, he huia e tuku ana ki te rangi mō tōna mahi pukumahi mō te reo. Koirā ētahi. E kōrero ana mō Rauru me te whiti tuatahi, ka waiata ngā tama. 

    Those leaders such as Huirangi, Koro Huirangi Waikerepuru, the noble who was sent to the heavens, and his determination to revive the language. That’s one. It talks about Rauru and the first verse is sung by the boys.

    Nā te mea ko te waiata e kōrero ana mō ngā tāne, nā reira ka waiho tērā taha ki a rātou. I whāngai i te reo kia taea e tātou ki te uru atu ki ngā kura kaupapa Māori, ki te whare wānanga mō te reo, aha atu rānei.

    Because the song speaks about the male, so that part of the song was left up to them. The language was fought for so that we may be able to attend kura kaupapa Māori, the Māori language in universities and so forth.

    Ka pai. Nō reira, ko tēnei kupu te amo taketake, he kupu e hāngai noa ana ki ngā Tane?

    Awesome. So, this work amo taketake, does it only relate to make?

    Kāo

    No.

    Kao, ngā tāne me ngā wāhine?

    No, both male and female?

    Āe

    Yes.

    Ka pai, ka pai. He kupu whakarite i te rangatira?

    Great, so it’s a metaphor for an esteemed leader?

    Āe, āe

    Yes.

    Nā, kōrerohia te poi.

    Now, let’s talk about the poi.

    Āe, ko te poi te mea rawe rawa atu mōku. Anō hoki he kōrero mō te hononga ki roto o Waikato, āe.

    Well, the poi is my favourite item. It also talks about our connection to Waikato, yes.

    Āe, ko Tāwhiao pea te kaupapa?

    Okay, was Tāwhiao perhaps the theme?

    Āe, Kīngi Tāwhiao. 

     

    Yes, Kīngi Tāwhiao. 

    Ko Kīngi Tāwhiao, he aha tētahi o ngā hononga matua i akona e koe i roto i tērā waiata?

    Kīngi Tāwhiao, what are one of the main connections that you learnt within that song?

    Tana hikoi mai ki Parihaka, i haere mai ia hei Matutaera, i hoki atu hei Tāwhiao.

    His march to Parihaka, he arrived as Matutaera and returned as Tāwhiao.

    Tēnā koe, tēnā koe i tēnā. Nā, ko ngā kiwei tonu tērā o te kete, purihia e Waikato, e Taranaki. Ka mutu pea! Nā, ko te haka, he aha te haka?

    Thank you for that. Now those are the handles of the basket which are held each by Waikato and Taranaki. Amazing! Now the haka, what was the haka?

    Taranaki Matarau

    Taranaki Matarau.

    Taranaki Matarau, he aha…he koke kōrero rānei tēnā, a Taranaki Matarau?

    Taranaki Matarau, what is that? Is it discussions around moving forward? Is that what isTaranaki Matarau about?

    Āe, he kōrero mō ngā rangatahi. Ka kī atu, “hei aha te kapa haka, he moumou tāima, hei aha te reo, me whiua atu ērā.” Kia huri ki ngā rangatahi, ehara i te mea kei te pērā ko te kapa haka tētahi mea nui rawa atu mō tātou. Ko tātou te iwi Māori, te kapa haka. Kei roto ngā waiata, ngā kōrero, ngā whakapapa, aha atu.

    Yes, it talks about the youth. It’s often said, “nevermind kapa haka, it’s a waste of time, forget about the language, forget about it all”. And we turn to the youth, it’s not as if it’s like that. Kapa haka is a major part of our world. Our Māori people, we are kapa haka. Within it are the songs, oral histories, genealogy and many more.

    Ngā whakataukī, ngā kīwaha, e taea te puta ki te ao, kia tiro atu te ao ki Aotearoa mō ngā mahi kapa haka. He pai ake i ētahi mea raruraru rawa atu.

    The proverbs and the idioms, they can be released to the world, so that the world can see New Zealand in terms of kapa haka. And that’s better than some of the problems.

    Koia, he oranga o roto, nē? He rongoā o roto o tēnei ao, Te Ao Haka, oti noa ngā tikanga katoa nē? Ka pai, ka whakakōpanihia ki te whakawātea, he aha tēnā?

    Exactly, there’s sustenance within kapa haka aye? There is healing with this world of Te Ao Haka, furthermore there are traditions as well. Well, we will conclude our conversation by looking at the exit, what exactly is that?

    E kōrero ana mō te hokinga atu ki te kāinga. E hoki ana ki Parihaka, ki Ngāti Ruanui, ki Ngāruahine, me Ngā Rauru kia huri tō tātou waka Aho Matua ki Taranaki, ā, hoki ki te kāinga.

    It speaks of returning home. Returning to Parihaka, to Ngāti Ruanui, to Ngāruahine and Ngā Rauru. Our Aho Matua canoe turns to Taranaki, to return home.

    Ka pai, ka pai. Nā, ki ō whakaaro, he aha pea ētahi o ngā rerekētanga, ngā motuhaketanga rānei, o roto i te tū o Taranaki?

    How awesome. Now, in your opinion what are some of the differences and uniqueness in terms of the Taranaki stance?

    Ko tō mātou kaupapa ētahi mea, ko te poi rokiroki kāore anō tētahi kapa i mahi i tērā. Ko tō mātou takahi, te hīkeikei - he tino ātaahua tērā ki au. Kei te mirimiri i a Papatuanuku. Ehara i te mea, kei te takahi ki runga i a ia, me te raukura.

    Our theme is one, groups haven’t performed a poi rokiroki as well. The way that we stamp the foot, known as the hīkeikei - it’s quite beautiful to me. We are caressing Papatuānuku. It’s not as if we are stomping on her, and the sacred emblem.

    Ka pai, ka pai. Tēnā, he aha ō mohiotanga mō te raukura?

    That’s great. Now, what knowledge do you have in regard to the sacred emblem?

    Mōku, he tohu i te maungārongo, he tohu i te rongomau ki roto i au. Ahakoa kāore e taea te rongo i te reo ihirangaranga o te raukura, kei te rongo i te rongomau.

    For me it represents peace, it resembles harmony within myself. Even though you can’t hear the vibrations of the sacred emblem, you can feel the harmony.

    Koia, koia. Nō reira, i roto i te mau i te raukura, me te mea nei he rerenga kētanga rānei kua kite rānei koe i roto i ō iwi me tō wheako i roto o Parihaka, he rerekē rānei te mau i te raukura?

    That’s exactly right. So, while holding the sacred emblem, or if you have seen something different within your iwi and your experience within Parihaka, is there a difference in terms of holding the sacred emblem?

    Āe, kei te rapu tonu au i ērā whakamārama, engari ka mau tētahi ki te taha matau, ki te taha mauī, ki waenga. He rerekē ki te tonga, ki te raki, ki te aha atu, kei te rapu tonu au i ērā kōrero.

    Yes, I’m still in search of that meaning, but you were one on the right, left and in the middle. It’s different in the south, north and other places. But I am still searching for those oral histories.

    Ka pai, ka pai, tēnā koe me he rapu tonu tō ake raukura nē titi ana i roto i a koe, ka pai. Kia mārama pūrangiaho tēnā ki te katoa. Ka mutu pea! 

     

    Nā, i kōrero koe mō tēnei mea te poi, nē? He aha, ki ō whakaaro, tētahi o ngā tino kura, ngā tino mārama mātauranga rānei kua heke ki a koe i roto i tō mau i tō poi manu?

    Thank you, once you find our own sacred emblem, fasten it within yourself okay. So that that is clear to everyone. Awesome! 

     

     

    Now you previously spoke about the poi, right? In your opinion, what are some of the hidden gems or comprehensible knowledge that has been passed down to you while holding onto your poi manu?

    Ko taku poi manu, he manawataki o tōku ao. Ki te pai te rere, ka pai hoki ahau; ki te ngū, kua raru tētahi mea. Kei te tihi o whakaaro te poi, i ngā wā katoa, nā te mea he tohu i te kāinga hoki. Ahakoa ka noho au ki tētahi wāhi rerekē, ka patua tonu i te poi hei reo mōku, anō hoki hei reo mō aku tūpuna.

    My poi manu, is the rhythm of my world. If it soars with ease, I will also be at ease; if it is silent, then something is wrong. The poi is at the seat of my thoughts all the time, because it also represents the home. Regardless of where I am staying, I still use the poi to voice my thoughts and those of our ancestors.

    Koia pū, koia pū. Nā, he kapa e piri atu ana koe ki tētahi kapa poi manu? Tētahi kapa poi atua rānei.

    Precisely. Now is there a poi manu group or poi atua group that you have joined?

    Kāore anō, kāo. Engari, ka tukuna i te poi ki ngā tangihanga

    No, not yet. But the poi is in flight at funerals.

    Ka pai. Nō reira, he tikanga ā-iwi kē, ā-hapū rānei?

    Right, so that’s a tribal or sub-tribe tradition?

    Āe

    Yes.

    Ka pai. Tēnā, he aha te tikanga o te taki i te poi i te uhunga, i te tangihanga?

    Okay, what is the purpose of reciting the poi at unveilings and funerals?

    Kia pai te haere o te tūpāpaku ki te kōpū o te whenua. Ko te reo whakamutunga. Kia wātea te huarahi, kia wātea tōna huarahi, ka taki i te karakia ‘Aotea’, a ‘Kī mai’ me ‘Pērā hoki’.

    So that the deceased travels safely to the heart of the earth. That’s the final voice. So that the path is clear. The karakia ‘Aotea’, ‘Kī mai’ and ‘Pērā hoki’ are also recited.

    Ka pai, katoa o ērā he poi atua, nē? Ka pai. Nā wai koe i whakaako ki ngā poi atua?

    Awesome. So, all of those are poi atua right? Who taught you how to perform poi atua?

    Ko tōku māmā tētahi, i tuhia tāna mahi mō te poi atua

    My mother was one, her work was based on poi atua.

    Tana tuhinga whakapae

    Is that her thesis?

    Āe

    Yes.

    Āe, āe, tohu paerua.

    Yes indeed, master’s thesis.

    Ko te karapu o Pātea. Ia Rāhina ka mahi, ahakoa te aha, ka mahi i mua i tō mātou mutunga. I taku tīmatanga i whakaaro, “he ai kei te mahi?” He pōturi rawa atu tēnei, engari au e pakeke ana, i mōhio he take, he take kei te mahi.

    The Pātea club. Every Monday it is recited no matter what. They recite this right before the end. Initially I thought, why do we do this? This is so slow, but as I matured, I realised that there was a reason that it was recited.

    Ka pai, ka pai. Nō reira, he aha pea ō kawenga ināianei i roto i Te Ao Haka?

    Awesome. Therefore, what are some of your responsibilities now within Te Ao Haka?

    Tētahi mea, ko te tū hei kaiārahi kapa haka ki Te Kunega ki Pūrehuroa.

    One of them is to stand as a leader of Te Kunenga ki Pūrehuroa kapa haka.

    Tēnā koe

    Thank you.

    Mō te ropu o Manawatahi. Kei reira au hei tū hei kaiako mō te kapa haka. He rawe. Ehara i te mea kei reira au ki te whakatika i a rātou, e tohutohu ana he tika, he hē rānei.

    For the Manawatahi group. I’m there as a tutor for the group. It’s fantastic. It’s not like I’m there to critique them or instruct them that it’s correct or wrong.

    Kia aro atu ki tētahi mea, kia pai ake rātou. Koirā taku mea nui, e ngākaunui ana kia ngākaunui ana hoki rātou ki tēnei mea te kapa haka. Ka awhina i ōku mātua hoki ki roto o Aotea Utanganui. I tērā tau i awhi ki te taha o Te Kūreitanga, i hoki atu kia hora aku mātauranga ki roto i te ao kapa, ki aku teina.

    But to focus on things which will make the group better. That’s my main focus, I’m enthusiastic for them to be enthusiastic about kapa haka. I also assist my parents with Aotea Utanganui. Last year, I helped with Te Kūreitanga, I returned to share the knowledge that I have about kapa haka with my younger siblings.

    Tēnā koe, tēnā i hoki hei raukura tonu, hei raukura, arataki i ō teina i reira. Ka pai. Nā, e mōhio ana tātou i tētahi o ngā whakataetae whakamutunga o roto o Aotea, he wā i kitea te w’akaw’enumitanga o ngā kapa, nē? Tēnā, kōrerohia mai tēnā wheako.

    Thank you, thank you for returning back as an exemplar to guide your younger siblings. How great. Now, we know of one of the final competitions here within Aotea, a time when we witnessed the amalgamation of groups, right? Now please discuss that experience.

    Te Kapa o Te Kāhui Maunga, he kōtuinga o ngā uri Taranaki maunga, o Te Awa Tupua, me Rātana Pā. I whakakotahi mātou i raro i te kaupapa kotahi, ko te kapa haka, kia tuku atu ki te ao, ki Aotearoa, kei konei a Aotea, e mahi tonu ana i ngā mahi. Ahakoa he iti rawa atu tātou, he nui tō mātou mātauranga me tō mātou arohanui ki te kapa haka.

    Te Kāhui Maunga group, interlinking the descendants of our mountain Taranaki, our great river and Rātana Pā. We united under the one banner, under kapa haka for the world and New Zealand to see, here is Aotea, still doing the work. Even though there may not be a lot of us, we have a lot of knowledge and love for kapa haka.

    Koia. Ko wai te kaiako?

    Exactly. Who was the tutor?

    Ko ētahi ko Te Taepa, atu i a ia ko ngā kaiako o ia kapa ka noho hei kāhui.

    One was Te Taepa, other than him there was a tutor from each group that were part of the organising committee.

    Ka noho hei kāhui matua, hika! Ngā taniwha o Taranaki, nē? Nā reira, i pēhea tā rātou āta whakariterite, tārei i te hōtaka haka?

    They were all part of the organising committee. Whoa! All the leaders of Taranaki? Therefore, how did they prepare & shape the bracket?

    Nā reira, ko te kaiako matua ko Te Taepa, engari ki ia wāhi kei a rātou tētahi waiata te uru atu ki roto i tēnei hotaka. Pērā ki a, ‘E rere rā; ‘Mangungu taipo’, ‘Pakipakia’, ‘Ngā waka e whitu’. He rawe tērā waiata ki au. Ētahi waiata o Rātana.

    So, the main tutor was Te Taepa, but each place had a song that was part of the performing bracket. Such as ‘E rere rā’; ‘Mangumangu taipō’, ‘Pakipakia’, ‘Ngā waka e whitu’. I like that song. And some songs from Rātana.

    Te waiata tira, nē?

    The choral right?

    Āe, me te whakawātea.

    Yes, and the exit.

    Me te whakawātea āe, te pēne, te reo.

    Yes, and the exit, the band and musical instruments.

    Āe. Te reo rawe rawa atu o ērā taonga puoro, me te whakaeke. He waiata. Ehara i te mea he waiata engari he kaupapa mō tō mātou ihorei kua pahure, a Uncle Archie Hurunui. Ko ia tētahi i akiaki i tēnei mō te reo, mō te ao kapa haka. I reira ia mōku i ngā wā katoa, ko ia tētahi o ōku ihorei mō te reo, mō te reo o Taranaki.

    Yes. All those musical instruments are amazing, the entry as well. It’s a song. Actually, it’s not just a song but it was written for our esteemed leader who had passed away, for Uncle Archie Hurunui. He was one who encouraged us to pursue this for the language and kapa haka. He was always there for me; he was one of my respected leaders for the language and dialect of Taranaki.

    Mei kore mōna, ka kore au e pakari i roto i tēnei mea. Ko te reo Māori tōna taonga nā reira ko tōku taonga, ko tōna reo Māori me ōna akoranga katoa.

    I owe a lot to him, because I wouldn’t be as strong as I am without him. The Māori language was his gift; therefore, my treasures are his Māori language and all his lessons.

    Tēnā koe. Nō reira, hei whakakōpani ake i tā taua uiuitanga kōrero i te rangi nei, me taku mīharo rawa atu ki a koe, Tūheimoa. He aha pea ētahi kupu hei akiaki i te ohinga e para nei i ōu huarahi, tō huarahi ki Te Ao Haka?

    Thank you. Therefore, to conclude this interview today, I am in awe of you, Tūheimoa. What are perhaps some words of encouragement for the youth who are pursuing your path of Te Ao Haka?

    Me mahia! Me mahia i ngā mahi kapa haka, kei roto ngā pūkenga. Āe, ko ngā mahi tinana, waiata, kanohi. Engari ko ngā kōrero, koirā te mea nui. Anō hoki, kia mataara, kātahi, tukuna ki te ao.

    Do the work! Pursue kapa haka, there are many skills within it. Yes, from actions, to songs, to facials. But the main thing is the oral history. Also, be alert and unleash your potential upon the world.

    Āe, tēnā rawa atu koe kei taku iti raukura me ngā kōrero kua komo mai ki tēnei o ngā raupō o Te Ao Haka. Ka nui te mihi ki a koe, oti noa ki ō ihorei, o Ngāti Tūpito, oti noa ngā paranga kei waenga i a tāua, Ngāti Manuhiakai, ngā uri o Tītokowaru. Tēnā koe Tūheimoa.

    Yes, thank you very much our precious treasure for all the stories that you have shared which will be added to our raupō girdle of Te Ao Haka. We are truly grateful to you and all your leaders of Ngāti Tūpito, furthermore all the connections between us, between Ngāti Manuhiakai and the descendants of Tītokowaru. Thank you Tūheimoa.

     

    Outro: 

    As the interview finishes fades to black screen bring up again the scenic shots of toetoe then a shot of a carved pou. The skate park appreas and quickly dies out to a monument from Opotiki centre shot. 50km speed sign which also has Opotiki on it. Crosses to a panning shot of a mural from the town centre. It returns to the beach then to the river with barge, which has two boy who look to be skimming rocks. Then back to the beach and the river mouth with a walking bridge out the river, then to the walking bridge with bike riders coming across. Back to a shot over looking the ocean and carved pou then quickly back to a different area of the river. A shot of the carved pou in Opotiki. Shots of street art and to the skate park once again with carved pou. Then closing on the carved pou which swtches over to a birds eye view of the district.

     

    [ Accordion ]

     

    Interviewee: Bronson Gage rāua ko Puao Whauwhau

    Interviewer: Hukarere Greening

    Location: Te Whānau a Apanui

    Intro:

    Music in the background continues through the whole introduction with opening scene of the beach side with rakau. Camera shot of marae and changes to drive past ocean as visual changes to a bay with a log on the beach and water and trees in background. Camera then pans ground level across the beach showing seaweed and then shows coastal shore with rocks and water in the background. Wave crashes around rock and shows close-up on water breaking close to rocks. Camera view of a sign saying “Nau mai, haere mai, you are entering the tribal lands of Te Whanau a Apanui. Next taking a drive into the rohe surrounded by ngahere. Camera then pans with a jetty and ocean and a small community in the background surrounded by hills. Quick visuals of Waihau Bay Lodge and changing visual to a park where the swings are moving with other obstacles in background. Camera pans across the water and down the jetty where the words Te Whānau-a-Apanui appear and screen goes black with Te Whanau a Apanui still showing before the words Te Ao Haka appear. Music stops as the camera focuses on the 3 people sitting on chairs set up for the interview.

    Te reo Māori

    Te reo Pākehā

    Kei aku whanaungā, tēna rā kōrua.

    Nau mai ki tēnei Pūnua pāho mo Te Ao Haka.

     

    Hei rauemi mō wā tātou tamariki mokopuna ā ki tēnei mea te Haka, nau mai haere mai.

     

    Tuatahi ake whakamōhio mai kō wai kōrua, nōhea kōrua?

    Kā timata ke kia koe Puao.

    My relations, hello to you both.

    Welcome to this podcast for Te Ao Haka.

     

    A resource for our children for haka, welcome.

     

     

    Firstly, please tell us who you both are and where you are from.

    Let’s start with you Puao.

    Kō Puao Whauwhau tōku ingoa.

    Hē uri tēnei nō Ngāti Hāua, ō Tuhoe, ō Ngāti Whakaue.

    My name is Puao Whauwhau.

    I am a descendent of Ngāti Hauā, of Tūhoe and Ngāti Whakaue.

    Tēna koe Puao.

    Thank you, Puao.

    Kia Ora, kō Bronson Gage tōku ingoā.

    Whanau Apanui, a hē Kahungunu tēnei, hē Whakatohea tēnei, hē Ngāti Porou tēnei, ā hē Maniapoto anō hoki.

    Kia ora, my name is Bronson Gage.

    I am Te Whānau a Apanui, Kahungunu, Whakatōhea, Ngāti Porou and Ngāti Maniapoto.

    Kia Ora.

    Tēna rā kōrua.

    Tuatahi ake ka hoki atu ngā mahara ki te wā tuatahi i rongo ai i tē wairua o tēnei mea te haka a Tāne Rore a Hine Rehia.

     

    He aha tēna Puao?

    He aha o maharatanga tuatahi ki tēnei mea te haka?

    Kia ora.

    Thank you both.

    Firstly, think back to the time you first encountered the essence of this thing, of haka, the haka belonging to Tānerore and Hinerēhia.

     

    What is that for you, Puao?

    What are your first memories regarding haka?

    I te timatanga, ā he waka tēnei hei kawe i te reo tuatahi i roto i tō mātou Hāpori.

    I te mea i te memehā haere te reo, nāreira ko Te Ao Haka he waka hei kawe i te reo i roto i ngā waiata, i roto hoki i tēra i au e tamariki tonū ana.

    Ko taku tū tuatahi e maumaharatia nei ē au.

    E whakaeke ana mātou i runga i te ātāmira, anā ko taku hoa i taku taha e, i te tū tonu a ia ki taku tūranga.

    Anā ko au tēna e whakanekeneke ana i a ia, ia mātou e haka ana e waiatā ana i ngā waiatā.

    Anā ko u te kaiwhakangāhau o tauā rā hoki.

    Heoi anō, koinā tōku mahi i roto i te whakaeke mō te katoā ō te waiatā.

    Kia mutu noa ngā mahi kā whakamōhio atu ki taku hoa “Ānei kē tō tūranga!, nāku kē tēnei tūranga!?

    Firstly, it is a vehicle to deliver the first language to our communities.

    Because te reo was in decline, haka became a vehicle to deliver the language through songs, and this was only when I was a child.

     

    The first performance I remember. We were making our way on to the stage, and my mate next to me was standing in my spot.

     

    So, I moved her over while we were performing haka and songs.

    I was the one who made everyone giggle on the day. But yes, that’s what I did throughout the entirety of the entrance item.

     

    When we had finished, I said to my friend, “This is your spot here! This is my spot!”

    Heoi anō koinā wāku maharatanga tuatahi pea mō taku tū tuatahi pea mō taku tū tuatahi i roto ī tē ao Haka.

    So those are my first memories regarding my first kapa haka performance.

    Hē hoa tonu kōrua?

    Are you two still friends?

    Ae he whanaungā, he whanaungā tāua.

    Kā hoki tonu o kōrua maumahara ki tēra.

     

    Ae kā kata hoki mātou mē taku kī “A titiro ki ahau ināianei, ē ārahi ana i tētahi o ngā Kapa nunui ō Aotearoa”

     

    Ae tika.

     

    Mē taku mīharo hoki ki tēra.

    We are relations, we are relations.

    Do you two still reminisce about that?

     

    Yes, and we laugh about it, and I say, “Look at me now, leading one of the most prestigious groups in Aotearoa.”

     

    Yes, that's true.

     

    And I’m still in awe of that.

    Kā pai.

    Kā mau te wehi, panapana i tō hoa.

    Mean.

     

    Kia koa Brons.

    He aha pea ō maharatanga tuatahi ki tēnei mea te haka?

    Awesome.

    Terrific, moving your friend over.

    Rawe.

     

    To you, Brons.

    What are your first memories regarding haka?

    Nō reira ka peka atu au ki ngā huinga o Te Hui Aranga. Anā, koirā taku whāinga me ngā hautututanga o tērā wā.

    Engari ka kite atu i ētahi wā ka tū au ki te taha ki ngā rōpū kapa, engari ehara i te mea tino ngākaunui. 

    Anā, koirā i tērā wā.

    Whakamihi nei au ki taku tupuranga ki roto i te hāhi me Te Hui Aranga. Nā, he whakaarotanga ki a nanny Bidi, kātahi ka ngaro atu nei.

    Ki a Morvin, tētehi o ngā pou.

    Uncle Henare, tō koroheke pāpā.

    So, I would go to the Hui Aranga celebration. That's what I wanted to do, and that’s where I’d go and be a mischief back then.

    But looking back, yes, I did perform with some groups, but I wasn’t that passionate about it.

     

    That was back then.

    But I acknowledge being brought up in the church and at Te Hui Aranga. I think about nanny Bidi who has now passed on.

    And about Morvin (Simon), one of the leaders.

    Uncle Henare, your grandfather.

    I tipu keha mai tēnei.

    I haere au ki tētahi kura Katorika.

    I rēra rā i tūtaki au i tētahi māori, ko tāna ingoā ko Walter Tamepo.

    Taku maharatanga, ko ia tā mātou kaiako tuatahi.

    I aua wā ko te Māori Cultural Dance te ingoa, kāre kau ko te, ko te Kapa Haka.

    I aua wā, ka tae mātou ki ngā parakatihi a Ngāti Pōneke

    Ka haere ki ngā parakatihi ia manē, i te taha o tā mātou whanaunga ā Uncle George Hīnaki. Me ōna tamariki.

    Kāore mātou i hari i te paku aha.

    Ka tae noa, arā, he kai i reira, ka tākaro tahi ki ngā tamariki.

    Ka mahi ngā pākeke i ā rātou mahi.

    Nō reira, kāore au i paku pai ki te kapa haka.

    I ērā wā, ‘You were Māori’.

    Kōinā ehara ko te iwi, māna – I mōhio noa au he Māori au.

    I grew up Pākehā-like.

    I went to a Catholic school.

    There I met a Māori by the name of Walter Tamepo.

    From what I remember, he was our first tutor.

    Back then, it wasn’t called kapa haka, it was called Māori Cultural Dance. 

     

    During those times we would attend Ngāti Pōneke practices.

    We’d go to practices every Monday alongside our relation, uncle George Hinaki and his children.

     

    So, didn't take anything to thing.

    We just used to go there and, there's a feed play with the other kids.

    The adults were doing what they were doing.

    So, I wasn't amused at Kapa Haka at all.

    Back then “He māori koe”

    That’s it, wasn't the iwi or, i just knew I was a Māori.

    Nō reira i haere atu koe ki reirā ki te whakawhanaungā atu ki ō hoa.

    He aha te mea nui, he aha te hihiritamga ō tēna momo whakawhanaungātanga i auā rā?

    So, you went there to get to know your mates.

    What was the main thing? What was the importance of that kind of relationship building back then?

    Kāo, kāore mātou i reira mō tērā, nē, i te mea –

    Taku pāpā tāna mahi i nā pō, ko taku māmā mahi tāna.

    Nō reira, i te manaakitia mātou e tō mātou whānau, arā, ka haere tahi mātou ki a rātou

    Ka haere tahi ki ngā parakatihi a Ngāti Pōneke, ā, kāore mātou i mōhio he kapa rongonui kē rārou.

    Āe, kāore i mōhio.

    I whai pānga mai rānei ki a au?

    Nah we were never bloody there for that aye cause a-

    My dad worked at night, and my mum also had work.

    So, he had to get babysitted by our relations and we would tag along with them.

    And attend the Ngāti Pōneke practices and little that we had known they were actually a well-known team.

    And yeah, yeah with nothing.

    Did it mean anything to me?

    Āe, i taua wā?

    Yeah, at that time?

    Yeah.

    Wētahi wā kā rongohia i te reo māori e kōrero ana.

    Kō te whutupōro, takoro Rīki Koinā te mahi ō Ngā Māori I Pōneke.

    Engari i te mutunga kē tērā o te kēmu, ka tū ana te kāpene, heoi ka lucky mēnā ka tū tētahi ka kōrero Māori.

    Ka rangona i ētahi wā.

    Ka haere ki Ōrongomai Marae i Upper Hutt.

    Ka haere ki ētahi kaupapa i reira.

    I pakeke ōku hāmuri i te Kōhanga Reo, engari i haere kē au ki te whare kōhungahunga Pākehā.

    Āe.

    Rugby League. The Māori in Wellington played Rugby League.

    Sometimes we would hear te reo Māori being spoken.

    But that was like when you're at the end of the game and the captain stands up, and you know waimarie if someone speaks Māori.

    Sort of hear that.

    Would go to Ōrongomai Marae in Upper Hutt.

    Yeah, we'd attend functions there.

    My brothers they grew up in Kōhanga reo and I went to a Kindergarten.

    Nō reira i pakeke mai koe i Ngāti Haua nē?

    Āe.

    Kōrerohia mai mōte āhuatanga o te Haka, me ngā momo waiata e rere ana i āua wā rā, te Hāhi

    So, you grew up within Ngāti Hauā, eh?

    Yep.

     

    Tell me about what haka was like, and what kind of songs were sung then, and the church.

    Nō reira ko te nuingā o ngā waiata i waiatahia e mātou ā mō te reo.

    A i te mea hoki i te whakaora mātou i te reo māori, ā anā ko ngā Wero nui ki runga i ngā whānau, ki te iwi kia whakapakari anō i te reo māori.

    Anā ae i tipu ake mātou i raro, i roto i te Karaitiana.

    Ā ēra mahi hoki i puta mai ngā mahi pūoro.

    Ā i ngā rā hoki kō taku kuia tētahi o ngā kaitito waiatā.

    Ana koia hoki te mea i tito i ngā waiata mō ngā kōrero ō te iwi, ngā kōrero mo ngā mate mē te reo hoki.

    So, the majority of songs we would sing were about the language.

    Because we were revitalising te reo Māori, and that was one of the challenges facing us as a family, as an iwi, to revitalise the Māori language.

    We grew up in the Christian faith. So, with that came music.

     

     

    Back then, my nanny was a composer.

    She would compose songs about the stories within the tribe, those who have passed on and te reo as well.

    Nō reira i tē rongo ngā Pātu ō Tauwhare i tēra momo āhuatanga?

    So, you would hear Ngā Pātu ō Tauwhare and the like?

    Kei te pēra tonū, kei tē waiatahia tonutia ngā waiata rā i tēnei rā.

    Ko ngā tamariki ā taku kuia hoki.

    Ko rātou pea ngā mea wāhine i kaha kōrero māori.

    Kāre ngā mea tāne e kōrero māori i roto i taku whanau.

    A nō reira ko rātou ngā mea kaitito o roto i te whānau.

    I roto hoki ngā reo e rua.

    Anā ko ngaa reo i puta mai, ko te reo i puta mai ko te reo ō te Paiperā.

    Nō reira e tāea ai mātou ki te tūhono ki te ia o te kaupapa e tito ai e rātou.

    ea ētahi rerekētanga, ōritenga rānei, i kitea e koe?

    It’s still like that, we still sing those songs today.

     

    My grandmother's daughters as well.

    They were the ladies who consistently spoke Māori.

     The men in my family didn’t speak Māori.

     

    So, they were the composers within my family.

    In both languages.

    The language of delivery was the language within the Bible.

    So, we could connect with each topic they composed about.

    What were some of the differences or similarities you saw?

    Nō reira kei te waiatatia tonutia i ēra waiatā i ēnei wā nei?

    So those songs are still sung today?

    Wētahi, ngā mea rongonui o tēnei rā.

    Ana kō Anō te pai, Maranga hauā.

    Engari kei te ako anō mātou tēnei reangā i aua waiata rā.

    Anā ia tāua e kōrero nei, kei te tīmata te iwi ki te whakatakotō i ēra waiata i runga Kōpae.

    I te mea hoki e tokomaha o rātou i noho ki roto ia Ngāti Hāua whānua, arā i roto ia Ruku Moana, ki Te Waharoa, ā ki Tauwhare anō hoki.

    Some. The famous ones such as ‘Ānō te pai’, ‘Maranga Hauā’.

    Some of my generations are just learning these songs today.

    As we’re speaking, some of the tribes are actually recording these songs.

    Because there are so many of them who reside within the boundaries of Ngāti Hauā, in Rukumoana, Te Waharoa, as well as Tauwhare.

    Ka rawe, mīharo.

    Mīharo tēna.

    Brons i hoki mai koe, you came back down to Te Kaha, Te Whana ā Apanui ki te Kura ai?

    He aha rā te hau ē  wawara ana i aua wā rā?

    A mo tēnei mea te Haka, mē ō kaiako e whakaako ana ia koe?

    Wow, amazing.

    That’s amazing.

    Brons, you returned – i hoki mai koe ki Te Kaha, ki Te Whānau a Apanui to go to school?

    Where did the wind take you back then?

     

    In terms of haka, and your tutors who taught you?

    A taku hokitanga mai ki ta kāinga, i āhua harawene ahau.

    Nā te mea kō ōku whanaunga e kōrero māori ana nē.

    Kāre tēnei e paku mōhio he aha tā rātou kōrero.

    Something simple as getting the sheets or getting a pillow at the marae, and I'll be standing there like.

    Yeah.

    When I went back home, I was a little jealous.

     

     Because my relatives could speak Māori.

    I didn’t understand at all what they were saying.

     

    Ahakoa he mea ngāwari pērā i te tiki i ngā hīti, te tiki rānei i te pera i te marae. Ka tū noa au e pēnei ana, ‘āe’.

     

    Nō reira i ako koe i te reo i aua wā rā?

    So, you learnt te reo around that time?

    Oh, i akiaki noa i a au ki te ako ko wai ahau, nō hea ahau.

    When I was a kid, ka haere mātou ki tērā atu taha, ki Kahungunu, ki te taha o tōku māmā.

    Ka hararei i reira i tenuinga o te wā.

    To Napier, to Waipukurau, to Waipawa. 

    Nō reira taku māmā.

    Kāore mātou i tino haere pēnei mai.

    Heoi, ka tae mai ana ki konei, kei te haere mai i te tāone ki te taiwhenua.

    Tino rerekē.

    Nō reira i hīkaka ahau ki te mahi Māori, ahakoa te aha. Ka haere ki te ‘Ra’s’ me aku matua kēkē. Ka haere ōku whanaunga ki te Hāhi, e waia haere ai ōku taringa ki te reo.

     

    Nā, ka pānui ahau i ngā mea katoa kia kaua ahau e mahue. Āe, i taka a roto i te mea kāore au i mōhio ki taku ake reo.

    Ā, kei te ako tonu au i te rā nei, āe.

    Ā, i ngā wā ka haere ki Pōneke me aku tuākana, tuahine,

    Ka ako i ngā haka mai i reira.

    Ka haere ki Pōneke ki te hararei, ka hīkoi i ngā rori e kōrero ana,

    ‘Ka mate, ka mate…’ Ānō nei i te kōrero Māori mātou. Ka titiro mai ngā tāngata ki a mātou e pēnei ana, ‘aye?’

    Ka kitea hoki ngā waiata i te pukapuka Ringatū, ā, ka kōrero noatia. Ka kōrero mai ia i tētahi wāhanga, ā, ānō nei i te kōrero Māori māua.

    Kia, mōhio koe, kia taiea noa. I te mea, pēnei māua, ‘Kua hūnuku mātou ki konei, e hiahia ana ki te kōrero Māori, kia rite ki ō mātou whanaunga, nē.’

    Ka whakarongo ki ōku matua kēkē, me ērā mea katoa. Nō reira i rumaki au i a au anō ki ngā mea katoa.

    I tētahi kura Katorika ahau, ā, ka haere tōtika ki tētahi Kura Kaupapa Māori.

    I te noho ahau ki te akomanga mō te tau katoa.

    ‘Kārekau, kārekau’ Āe, karekau.

    Ko te…. wēnei noihō te whakarongo mē te titirō.

    Kia taka ngā tau, ka kōrero.

    Āe, koirā taku ara, ā, ko te kapa haka te mea i, auē…

    Ka ako i te reo Māori, ka ako ki te waiata, ka mahi i ēnei mea katoa mō ō tīpuna.

    Ka taea e koe ēnei mea katoa i te wāhi kotahi, ko te kapa haka tērā.

    Ko au tērā, ka ngākau tapatahi.

    Ngā tamariki, ka kore rawa e mōhio mō ngā rīpene ataata. Me ngā mahi e rīpene ai i tētahi mea ki rīpene kē atu.

     

    Nā, kei a rātou te TiriAta, ka patopato noa i tētahi ingoa, arā. Ka puta mai ngā ingoa.

     

    Kaua i mua rā. I konei ake, ko te…

    Oh, it just encouraged me to learn who i am and where i'm from.

    I au e tai tamariki ana. We would go on that other side to Kahungunu, on to my mother’s side.

    And spend most of our holidays on that side.

    Ki Ahuriri, ki Waipukurau, ki Waipāua.

    That’s where my mother’s from.

    And we hardly came on this side.

    And then once we came here.

    Aye you're coming from a city to yeah rural aye.

    Very different.

    And so, I was eager to do anything Māori.

    So, we’d go to the Ra’s with my uncles. My cousins would go to see the Hāhi so my ears could thing to the reo.

    Then I would just read anything, aye cause I just didn’t wanna miss out. Or yeah, I just felt ratshit really cause I didn’t know my own language.

    Which I’m still learning today, yeah.

    And I would often, when we would go down to Wellington with my older siblings.

    We would learn Haka from up there.

    And we’d go down to Wellington for holidays, and we would walk down the street, and saying.

    Like “Kā Mate, kā mate.” Like we were talking Māori.

    Like everyone looking at us like ‘aye’.

    And we’d do different songs from the Ringatū book, and then we’d just talk it. And he’d say the other part, and it’d look like you know we were talking Māori.

    Just to, you know, just to be cool cause we thought “we moved here, fuh we wanna talk Māori, we wanna be like our cousin’s aye”.

     

    Listen to my uncles and all that. So, I pretty much immersed myself in anything.

    I come from a Catholic school, went straight into a Kura Kaupapa Māori.

    I was sitting in the class for the whole year.

    “Nothing, nothing “, yeah nothing.

     

    Just…. this, listening and watching. 

    Wasn't till after years later the, just talk.

    Yeah, was my journey and the Kapa Haka was just that thing that, oh man.

     

    You can learn Māori, you can learn how to sing, you can do all these things of our ancestors.

    You can do it all in just one thing and it was Kapa Haka.

    Yeah, that was me I became a freak.

    Kids they wouldn't even know about the video tapes.

    And what we had to do in order to Dub things on to another tape.

    You know they got like Youtube you can type up a name and bang. The names come up.

    Not back then it was a, especially down here it was a.

    Penē mē te pepā.

    Pen and paper.

    Koia. Ka pēhia, ka mōhio, ka whakatūngia, ka tuhia te kupu, ‘ka pai.’ I kaha pērā au i ngā waiata a Waka Huia, āe.

    Yeah, used to press it and then you know, pause it, write the word down “oh yup”. I did that with heaps of Waka Huia songs too and well, yeah.

    Nō reira, ka hoki mai ki konei ki te tūhono anō ki tō taha Māori.

     

    He aha ētahi kupu akiaki hei tuku māu ki ngā tamariki kāore anō kia tūhono ki tērā taha o rātou, kei te ako tonu rānei i tērā taha?

    So, coming back here, to reconnect with your Taha Māori.

     

    What advice would you give to our kids out there that haven’t yet connected with that side, or learning that side?

    E kuhu.

    He nui ngā waimarietanga, i te mea i homai taku reo Māori – ka tahi.

    Arā, he rau mea anō ka hua mai i tō reo Māori, he pēnei i te rākau taumatua.

    He peka anō ka hua mai i tērā.

    Ko te hītori o tō iwi, ā, kaua o tō iwi anake.

    Engari ka tīmata tō ako mō ngā hītori o tangata kē, ō rātou iwi, pepehā, he mea iti pēnei i te pepehā.

    Koia. Ka akiaki au i a rātou ki te kuhu, ā,

    Get in there.

    It’s been so fortunate,because one it gave my reo Māori to me.

    And then from your reo Māori all these things come, it’s like a huge tree.

    And heaps of branches that come off that.

    And history about your people, not just your people.

    But you start learning about other people’s history and their iwi, their Pepehā, something as small as their Pepehā.

    Yeah, I would just encourage them to get in there and just.

    Ki te ngana.

    Give it a go.

    I kīia mai tō mātou reanga e kore te kapa haka e hari i a koe ki hea ake rānei.

     

    Engari kua waimarie ahau ki te haere i te ao, nā te kapa haka. Kāore hoki ahau i utu i te paku aha.

    Come from a rēanga where we got told that Kapa Haka wouldn’t take you anywhere.

     

    And I’ve been fortunate enough to go around the world through Kapa Haka, didn’t have to pay a cent either.

    Te reo māori e whakatipu ana I te reo māori ki roto i te Hāpori o Ngāti Haua, Tauwhare.

     

    I haka rānei koe ki reira i te kura, he aha pea te rongo i auā wā rā?

    Te reo Māori growing te reo Māori in the Ngāti Hauā, Tauwhare community.

     

    Did you do kapa haka while you were at school there? What was the feeling like back then?

    Nā te mea ngā tamariki katoā i roto i te Hāpori i haere katoā mātou ki te kura.

    Nō reira mai te Whare Karakia, tae noa ki te Kura. Nō reira i te mahi tahi i te Whare Karakia me te kura.

    Mahi waiata, ana kā hoki mai ki te kura, nā he pēra anō. He rite pea kia tā Bronson kōrero. I te hiakai noihō mātou.

    I tāua wā hoki he haka noihō, he mahi noa i ngā mahi. I tohutohungia e ngā kaiako, arā i taua wā tonū kō taku māmā. Me tāna tungāne i rēira ē tohutohu ana ia mātou. Me ngā mea pākeke hoki.

    I te mea mēna i te hiahia mātou i te whakapakari i te reo, mē mahia hoki ngā pākeke. Kia tāea hoki ngā tamariki te whakapiki hoki i roto i te reo, mē te ao Haka.

    All the children in the community went to the school.

    From the church to school. We would be together at church and at school. 

     

    We’d sing then go back to school and do it all again. Exactly like Bronson said, we were hungry for it.

    Back then it was just haka, we’d just do as we were told. The teachers would instruct us, and back then that was my mum and her brother instructing us. As well as some of the elders.

     

    Because if we wanted to strengthen our language, the adults had to be part of it as well. So, the children could grow up immersed in the language and in kapa haka.

    Nō reira i haka tahi ngā pakeke i te taha o ngā tamariki?

    So, the adults did kapa haka with the children?

    Āe na te mea, i te whare karakia hoki rātou.

    Tino kaha tō mātou Hāpori i āua rā.

    I rēira hoki tonū ngā pākeke, ngā kuia, korōua.

    Ana ā mātou pākeke, ngā mea e tohutohua e o rātou kuia korōua. Nō reira e tino waimarie rātou, ā mātou pākeke.

    Ahakoa kāre rātou i kōrero i te reo māori, kō rātou ngā mea i patua i tē kura mō tē kōrero māori.

    Nō reira kia whanau mai mātou, wā rātou tamariki.

    Anā kā tīmata anō rātou ki te kōrero māori mai ki wā rātou tamariki.

    Yea cause, they were also at the church.

    Our community was very strong back then.

    The elders – elderly women and men – were still around.

    Our elders were the ones who were instructed by their elders. So, they were the fortunate ones, our elders.

    Although, they didn’t speak Māori. They were the generation who were hit at school for speaking Māori.

    So, when we were born, their children, they began speaking Māori to us.

     

    Nō reira, mai ia Ngāti Haua i hūnuku atu koutou ko tō whānau ki Te Arawa.

    I pēhea rā, i Rūmakitia te reo ki reira?

     

    I haere tonu koe ki rēira haka ai?

    So, from Ngāti Hauā, you moved to your family into Te Arawa.

    How was that? Were you immersed in the language there?

    Did you continue to do kapa haka there?

    Ae, i haere au ki Te Kura ō Ruamatā.

    I tāua tau hoki, i nui ngā kura noho i raro ō te maru ō Ruamatā.

    A nā te tokoiti ō ngā tamariki i aua kura, a i whakakotahi ai i ngā kura katoā hei Kura Kaupapa māori ō Te puku ō te Ika ā Māui.

    Yes, I went to Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Ruamatā.

    That year, there were many schools under the banner of Ruamatā.

    Because of the small amount of students in each of those schools, we came together to form Ngā Kura Kaupapa Māori o Te Puku o te Ika a Māui.

    Wairua hīkaka kōutou i taua wā?

    Were you excited then?

    Ae, engari i taua wā hoki, te kite, te tūtaki i ngā tamariki nō wāhi kē.

    Me te whakawhanaungā, me te tū honohono i wēra taurahere i wāenga i tēra kura me tēra kura.

    E mīharo nātemea i roto i tō mātou hāpori kō mātou noihō, te kite atu i wētahi atu.

    Like wow.

    Yes, but at the same time we were excited to see and meet kids from elsewhere.

    Through relationship building and building those connections between the schools.

     

    It was amazing because in our community, it was just us. When we saw others, we were like wow.

     

    Ki te mahi tahi.

    I pēhea rā ō kaiwhakaako i aua wā rā?

     

    He mea tohutohu, he mea tōwai i ngā nekeneke aha atu rānei?

    Working together.

    How were your tutors then?

     

    Were there new or repeated movements?

    Tino mīharo au ki wāku ki kaiako.

    Ahakoa ko taku kaihana me tāna hoa rangatira, engari tino ngāwari wana mahi.

    Tino mārama wāna tohutohu, māmā noa wā rāua tuku i ngā mahi kia mātou.

    Anō tēra wā hoki kā tipu tē hia kai, ā tē ngākau nui ki te haka.

    I te mea pōhēhē au he mahi ā ringa, he mahi poi he waiata noihō.

    Engari i tino kite au, i rongo hoki au i te wairua ō ngā mahi nei.

    I was so amazed at my tutors. 

    Even though it was my cousin and his/her partner, they were very compassionate.

    Their instructions were very clear, the way they taught us was very calm.

    It was then my hunger and passion for haka began.

     

    Because I was under the impression that it was just action songs, poi and singing.

    But I really saw and heard the essence of this activity.

    Hē tino wairua pēra ia Te Aho Matuā nē?

    Me ngā Mātāpono ō Te Aho Matua.

    He mīharo rawa atū tēna kaupapa.

    Me ngā Matāpono kei roto.

    He kapa i whai i wēra Mātāpono?

    Nā te mea he Kura kaupapa māori katoā?

    An essence like Te Aho Matua, yes?

    And the values of Te Aho Matua.

    That’s an amazing initiative, as well as the values that reside within.

    Did that group adopt those values?

    Since they were all Kura Kaupapa Māori?

    Tika tāhau, koinā hoki ngā āhuatanga e whakauruhia mai ē ngā kaiako.

    Engari i taua wā hoki i te ngana tonū ngā Kura kaupapa te whakapiki i ngā āhuatanga ō Te Aho Matuā.

    Arā i tēa wā hoki, ahakoā kāre mātou i mōhio ki Te Aho Matua, kō te wairua o ngā mahi.

    Anā nō tēnei wā tonu kā kite mātou, “oh koinā kē tō mātou Aho matua”

    Hē “Aroha tētahi ki tētahi”.

    He mahi tahi, te noho ā te tēina mē te tuakana i raro i te whakāro kotahi.

     

    Āe tika!

    Nō reira i rongo mātou i tēra, ahakoa kāre i kōrerohia.

    You’re absolutely right, those are also the values the tutors instilled.

    But back then, Kura Kaupapa Māori were still trying to promote the features of Te Aho Matua.

     

    So, at that time, even though we didn’t exactly know Te Aho Matua, it was the essence within what we were doing.

    It was then we saw, ‘Oh this is actually our Te Aho Matua.’

     

    It was ‘loving one another’. Working together, the old and young coming together for the same purpose.

    Correct!

    So, we felt that, even though it wasn’t spoken about.

    Ae anō te pai nē?

    Anō te pai otēra maumaharatanga.

     

    Brons i Haka koe i kōnei i tē kura tuatahī, i tē kura tuarua rānei?

    That’s fantastic!

    What a fantastic memory.

     

    Brons, did you do kapa haka in primary school or secondary school?

    Ae te kura tuatahi, kura tuarua Te kura ō Ōmaio, waimare.

    Kā haramai tā mātou Aunty, taku Aunty kō Aunty Maka Te Ao Muhurangi. Me Uncle Con, kō rāua tahi.

    I tino waimarie mātou ko mātou pea te kapa whakamutunga nāna i whakaako i mua i tana matenga.

    I taua wā, kāore au i paku mōhio ko wai te wahine rā, heoi, ko ia te, e mōhio ana koe.

    E titiro mai ana ia ki a au, kāo kei te titiro ia ki tētahi atu. Āe, i te nuinga o te wā he mea pai i te wā kāore ia i te titiro ki a koe.

    Heoi, āe, i a ia tētahi o ērā karu tūmatarau.

    Heoi, āe, i tino waimarie au.

    Nā, ka titiro whakamuri ana, waimarie ana au kia noho ko tētahi momo pērā i a ia hei kaiako i taua wā.

    Ka whakaako rātou i āku tamariki, i ā māua tamariki.

    I karangahia mātou ko ‘The Little Wack Pack Team’.

    Ko Tūtawake te Wack Pack Team.

    Ā, ko mātou te ‘Wack Pack’

    Ā, i a rātou ēnei waiata harihari, mēnā i waimarie ki te whakakanohi,

    Ki te whai wāhi atu ki ngā ā-motu, kua waiata i ēnei waiata. Nō reira i kīia mātou ko te ‘Little Wack Pack team’, te tīma a Tūtawake, Te Whānau a Tūtawake.

    I te mea, i tata mahi mātou i ngā mea katoa i mahia e rātou. I ētahi wā i pai ake i a rātou.

     

    Ōna mātauranga katoā.

    Kia taka rawa te wā ka mārama ko ia te take e pēnei ana tēnei āhuatanga.

    Whai muri, ka haere ahau ki Maraenui. Ko ō mātou kaiako kapa haka ko ō mātou kaiako tonu, ā, he kaiako tonu i ēnei rā nei.

    Yes, primary school and secondary school – Te Kura o Ōmāio. Lucky.

    My aunty came, my aunty Maka Te Ao Muhurangi and uncle Con. It was both of them.

    We were very fortunate to maybe be the last Kapa that she had taken before she had passed on.

     

    At the time I didn’t even know who the lady was and, oh she's the, you know.

    She's looking at me, no she's looking at somebody else. Yeah, usually that was a good thing when she's not looking at you.

    But yeah, she just has one of those tricky eyes aye.

    And yeah, I was pretty fortunate.

    You know when you look back at it.

    You know I was pretty fortunate to have a person like her to teach us in that time.

    They teach my children, our children.

    Yeah, so we were known as “The little Wack Pack team”.

    So, the wack pack team is Tūtauake.

    And we were called The Wack Pack.

    And they had these little banner songs that, if we were lucky enough to represent.

    To get into the Nationals, we would have these little songs that we would sing.

     

     

    Cause we had basically done everything that they had done. And sometimes we may have done it better than them.

    All of her knowledge.

    It's not till you find out later on that she was responsible for all this you know.

    Then I went to Maraenui.  Our Kapa Haka tutors were our teachers, and they are still teachers there today.

    Nō reira, i a kōrua e tipu ana i ō kōrua kura, me te kawe i ō kōrua mātāpono ake, me te ako i raro i ō kaiako.

    He aha ō whakaawenga kia (pēnei)? He aha ō akoranga, he aha hoki ngā pūkenga i ākona e kōrua, i kawea ki ō kōrua kapa pakeke?

    Pērā i a Aunty Maka.

    He aha ngā āhuatanga o ōna whakaakoranga ka whakamahia tonutia e koe, ā, kua kawea e koe i tō ara kapa haka?

    So, growing up, both of you growing up in your kura, taking the Mātāpono that you've got, and being taught by your tutors.

    What has inspired you to be? What have you learnt, and what skills have you picked up that have transferred into your adult teams?

    Like Aunty Maka you know.

     

    What do you still take from her teachings, and have taken it through your Kapa Haka journey?

    Ā, heoi, nō reira i te wā…

    Nā, kei te ako haere tonu au i tērā.

    I te mea, e ako tonu ana au i te reo Māori, i roto i ngā tau…

    E tūhura mai ana ētahi kōrero, ā, kei te whakahuihuitia e au ērā kōrero. I te mea, i te wā e taitamariki ana ahau, kāore au i mōhio ko wai ia.

    A whanaungā noihō, taku Aunty tēra.

    Ahakoa mēnā i rongonui rātou, ko aunty tērā, ko Uncle tērā.

    Kia taka rawa ngā tau, ka huritao nē.

    Pēnei, ‘E tōminahia ana i tipu kē au i konei, i whānau kē mai au i konei.’ Kia hōhonu ake aku mōhiotanga.

    I te mea, ka hoki ana ōku mahara, he kaponga rarapa noa. Nāna mātou i whakaako, ana koia.

    Ko te āhuatanga whakaako tērā, ā, tē paku aro i a au.

    I te aro kē ahau ki tōna reo Māori.

    Ā, me te ngana hoki kia tangata whenua ngā mea katoa, me te reo hoki. Koirā taku whāinga, i te whai au kia rumaki au i a au anō ki ngā mea reo Māori katoa.

     

    Ahakoa mēnā ko te kapa haka, ko te Ringatū, ko te tae rānei ki ngā tangi.

    I te haere au ki ngā tangi ki te whakarongo noa, ki te whakarongo ki ngā tāngata.

    Āe, kaua mō te kaupapa o te tangi, kei korā ētahi atu mō te kaupapa o te tangi, heoi e haere kē ana au ki te whakarongo noa ki a rātou.

    Ā, kua pērā au tae noa ki tēnei rā.

    Ka whakarongo au ki ngā tāngata, ki te āhua o tā rātou whakarārangi i ngā kōrero.

    Engari, ka hoki mahara ana au ki taku ohinga, me te aro ki tana āhua whakaako, āe.

    I was a bit unaware, i te aro kē au ki “te kōrero Māori pērā i ōku whanaunga.”

    I te mea i rongo au i te mahue au.

    Yeah, nah so when.

    Like I'm still finding that thing out aye.

    Because I'm still learning how to speak Māori you know, with the years have gone.

    And then I'm finding out information.

    And I'm just accumulating all these things you know when I’m young and I didn’t know who she was.

    She was just my relation, my aunty.

    Even if they were well known that was Aunty, that was Uncle.

    It wasn’t till years later you know you start thinking back aye.

    Like “I wish I grew up here, like born here” so, I actually get more depth.

    Cause when I look back at that it’s like a flash aye, she had taught us, and sort of just were.

    That was the tutoring thing, I wasn’t even looking at that.

    I was, what I was looking at was, listening to her Mãori.

    And then you know, trying to absorb everything, the language.

    That was my goal, I was just going to immerse myself in anything that’s got to do with Māori language.

    Whether it was Kapa Haka, whether it was Ringatū, whether it was going to Tangi.

    I just used to go to Tangi just to listen, just to listen to people.

    Yeah, not actually there for the Tangi, you're there for the Tangi but i'm going there just to listen to them.

     

    And I've done that right to this day.

    Yeah, and just listen to people how they structure their kōrero.

    Yeah, but when I look back at my younger days, looking at how she tutored, yeah.

    The kūare, but I was just concentrating on “I wanna talk Māori like my cousin’s aye”.

    Cause you just feel left out.

    Pēhea a Uncle Con?

    What about Uncle Con?

    Uncle Con, āe, i muri i noho mai hoki ia hei kaiako. Engari, ka rere ngā tau, ka kitekite mātou i a ia i ngā parakatihi a Te Whānau a Tūtawake. Koirā taku kapa pakeke tuatahi.

    He nui te matauranga.

    Ko ia tētahi o ngā uri ka puta, kātahi ka hoki mai.

    Nā, ka puta ki te ako, ā, ka whakahokia mai ngā mātauranga mai i ngā tini kaiako.

    Ka kōrero pōrangi mai ia ki a mātou, ānō he tamariki mātou, ā, ka pakaru mai te kata i a mātou.

    Ka whakaaro ake ināianei, ā, “he aha te hiahia, pōrangi wāna whakāro” Ka mōhio haere ana koe ki te tangata.

    E mōhio nei te katoa, āe ko Uncle Con, e mōhiotia whānuitia ana ia. 

    Āe, i a ia ngā – i pai āna kōrero akiaki.

     

    I mua tata i te eke ki te atamira i a koe e tamariki ana, ā, e noho noa ana mātou…

    Ka tīkina e ia ētahi kōrero nō ētahi o ngā pākeke (elders), ā, kāore au e tino mōhio.

    Ko tētahi o āna kōrero (statements), “The haka stance of Apanui is the principal stance, Haka Taparahi.”

    Ā, ko te tū kē – āe.

    I kīia mātou ki te, i te mutunga iho, “Tahunā ki raro, tukuna ki raro kia tāwēwē ai tō poropēke”.

    Ki te kore ehara tērā i te tū. “Tukunā ki raro kia tāwewe ō poropēkē”.

    Arā, pēnei i te – i te pātai ahau, “Aye, he aha te tikanga o tāu e kōrero nei?”

    Ā, ka huihui mai ngā whanaunga me ā rātou ake whakamāramatanga.

    “E kī ana ia kia kaua e tū, me hakahaka.”

    Waihō mā te reo māori.

    Uncle Con yeah, hē became our tutor, but he sort of as the years we in you would see him regularly at Te Whanau ā Tū Tauake practices, where that was my first senior Kapa Haka.

    Yeah, a lot of knowledge.

    He’s one of our fellas that would've you know, been out and then kā hoki mai.

    You know went out to learn and bought his learning with him from various tutors.

    He would tell us silly things aye, like we’re kids and we’re laughing aye.

     

    You think about it now and ‘What did he actually want? His way of thinking is so silly.’  when you get to know the man.

    As everyone would know, yeah Uncle Con, he’s pretty well known everywhere.

    Yeah, and he just had, his prep talks were pretty good.

    You know just before you get on the stage as a youngster a, like we’re sitting there you know.

    He would take kōrero from some of our pakeke, and I’m not too sure.

    Yeah, one of the kōrero was “Kō te tū o Apanui mō tē Haka, kō te tino Haka kō te Haka Taparahi”

     

    And the stance is actually, yeah,

    We were told to, well basically “Be short in stature, be low so your testicles are hanging low.”

    If you don’t do that, that's not the stance aye. “Be low so your testicles are hanging low.”

    And that was like you know, i'm like asking “aye what are you talking about? “

    And you know all the different cousins got their version of how to explain it.

    “Basically, he's telling you, don't stand, you have to get down”.

    And I’ll leave the rest to be said in Māori.

    Tukuna kia tāwēwē.

    Let it all hang out.

    Ko tētahi atu ara e ako mai ai rātou, ka piri tata ki tētahi pātū, ā, ka raru ki ētahi te toro atu.

    Nā ka haere mātou, ka noho.

    Ka heke, me tōtika tonu te tuarā, ka tū hāhaka.

    Ā, ka, āe – i ōna wā koirā te kōrero a uncle Con ki a mātou. “Tukuna ki raro, Kia tāwēwēai ō poropēkē”

    Nā, ka hoki ngā mahara ināianei, ā, kua ako ahau ki te kōrero Māori, [ka whakaaro ake], “Tētahi koroua.

    Other ways that they would teach us was actually you would go into a wall. And then cause a lot of people would have the problem of reaching over.

    So, we would go and we would be sitting.

    We’ll get down, and straight back, so that it’s the straight back and down low.

    And that was yeah, and uncle Con he would usually say that to us yeah. “Be low in stance, so your testicles are hanging.”

    You know and you think about it now, and I’ve learnt how to speak Māori, how to you know “ow you dirty fool”.

    Pēhea koe Puao?

    Ngā momo Mātāpono ngā momo pūkenga kua tau ki runga ia koe, he aha pea ētahi.

    What about you, Puao?

    Different values have been bestowed upon you. What are some?

    Kō ngā kaiako i whakaakohia i au e pakeke mai ana, kō taku māmā me taku papara.

    Heoi anō, ko te tū, ko te tū ā Tūhoe.

    Nā te mea koinā noihō te tū i mōhiotia e rātou.

    Nāreira koinā pea wētahi o ngā pūkenga i puritia tonu e mātou, ki roto i te whānau.

    I te mea koinā noihō te tū i mōhio e mātou.

    Engari ko ā rāua akoranga i au e tipu ana i mau tonu.

    Kāre mo te tuku, anā kei te pēra tonu.

    Ahakoa kua te tīni te tū i roto i tētahi atu kapa, kō ētahi o rātou Mātāpono e tāea tonu e au te pupuri i roto i tēnei o ngā kapa.

    Engari, ko ngā mea e tino purutia nei ē au, kō te tino tū a Tūhoe, mē ngā Manawa taki ā Tūhoe.

    Nā te rerekē o ngā mea e hakaina e mātou i ēnei rā, i roto tonū ō Tūhoe.

    Kō mātou pea ngā mea kei te kawe tonū i tēra tū, puta tonu i roto i Te Urewera, engari koinā pea.

    Arā hoki i roto i a Tūhoe, mō te Tūhoe Ahurei.

    Koinā te take i whakatūhia te hui.

    Engari tīmata tuatahi ki te whutupōro, engari i whakatūhia kia tāea mātou te huihui anō, i te mea i puta katoā ngā uri ō roto ō Te Urewera ki te whai mahi.

    A nā te Ahurei mātou i whakakao mai anō, kia whakapakari tonū i te reo, me wā mātou tīkanga, mē te tū ā Tūhoe.

    Engari ko ngā āhuatanga pea, kō ngā akoranga me pēhea te kawe i te Mōteatea, te momo tangi ō te Mōteatea.

    A tē pūkana, ngā momo pūkana.

    Te mau Patū, ēra āhuatanga katoā.

    Koiā ngā akorangā nui te Mau Rākau, tē karangā, mē pehea te kawe i te karanga?

    Te whakatakoto i te karangā?

    Engari kō te reo ake, i roto i te wairua o te whakaputa i te karanga.

    Te wairua o te whakaputa i te Mōteatea.

    Mēna he waiata tangi kāre koe e waiata pēra ia Beyonce.

    Engari kō Aretha Franklin.

    While I was growing up, my teachers were my mum and dad.

    However, our stance was the Tūhoe stance.

    Because that was the only stance they knew.

    So perhaps that was a skill that we retained within the family.

    Because that was the only stance we knew.

    And I still retain the teachings they passed on to us.

     

    I don’t let them go, and it stays that way now.

    Although I’ve adjusted the way I stand to suit other groups, I am still able to demonstrate some of the values they have passed on in other groups.

    But the main thing I have retained is the essence of the Tūhoe stance, the rhythm of Tūhoe.

     

    The things we haka these days, within Tūhoe, are quite different.

    We are, perhaps, the only ones who continue to perform that type of stance, throughout Te Urewera. 

    Also, within Tūhoe, there is the Tūhoe Ahurei.

    That was the reason the event was established.

    It started off as a league [tournament], but the purpose was so that we could continuously meet up, as the majority of the Te Urewera descendants had gone elsewhere to find work.

    The Ahurei brought us back together again to strengthen our language and customs, as well as our Tūhoe performance stance.

    Perhaps some aspects, some teachings are how to carry the traditional chant. The particular sound of the traditional chant.

    The pūkana, the different types of pūkana.

    How to wield a patu. Those sorts of things.

    Those were the main teachings, as well as weaponry, karanga, how to karanga, how to arrange a karanga.

     

    Focusing on the particular sound that comes with the feeling in the delivery of the karanga.

    The feeling in the delivery of the traditional chant.

    If it’s a lament, you don’t sing like Beyonce.

    Nor Aretha Franklin.

    Trills.

    Trills.

    Kē pea.

    Engari koinā tonu ngā mea kei tē mau tonu ahau.

    Maybe.

    Those are the teachings I hold on to.

     

    Ahurei, kōrerohia mai mō ō maumaharatanga ki tō tū ki ngā Ahurei.

    He rerekē, he kaupapa nui tēna kaupapa kōrero.

    Ahurei. Tell me about your memories about your performances at Ahurei.

    That’s a different and huge topic of discussion.

    Kei ā mātou tō mātou ake kapa, tō mātou whanau ake.

    He oritē hoki pea mātou tē whānau.

    He mīharo, ko te whanau. Kō ngā whāea, kō tō mātou Pāpara ngā kaiako.

    E tāea e mātou te tūtaki, te kite anō ia matou anō i te mea hoki i ngā wāhi katoā mātou ē noho ana.

    Nāreira koinā tētahi o ngā kaupapa i whakakao mai ia mātou te whanau, mē te tokomaha hoki ō mātou.

    Engari hē mīharo, kāre mātou i whakāro ake nārurnga i te whanau, te mahi ō te whanau engari te whakakao noa mai ki te haka.

    Engari nārunga i tēra ka kitea mātou i ngā hua i puta mai, kua whakatupu mai wā mātou tamariki ki waenganui ia mātou anō.

    Tērā pea ka taea mātou te hanga tokowha ngā kapa, na te mea e 20 tau mātou ināianei, tō mātou kapa.

    Nā te tokomaha ō mātou kua taea pea mātou ē whā ngā kapa mai i wā mātou pēpi tai noa ki ngā pākeke.

    Te Ahurei i Rotorua, e toru ō mātou kapa i tū, ngā mea pēpe, ana ngā mea tamariki, anā ko ngā mea pākeke.

    Ana kei te panāia mātou i ngā irāmutu ināianei, hei whakatūhia he kapa kaumātua, kāre kau kē.

    Nā reira ko ngā pakeke kei te pakangā atu ki wā mātou tamariki.

    Engari he miharo, he miharo.

    We have our own group, our family group.

    We are perhaps similar, our family.

    It’s amazing. It’s family. Our aunties and uncles are the tutors.

    We can meet up and see each other as we live all over the place.

     

    So, those are sometimes where we can come together as family, and there are a lot of us.

    But it’s amazing. We don’t think we’re coming together just as family, but we come together to haka.

     

    But because of that, we see the good outcomes such as raising our children around all of us.

    We could probably establish four groups, as our group is now 20 years old.

     

    Because there are so many of us we could probably establish four groups, from midgets to seniors.

    When Te Ahurei was held in Rotorua, we had three groups. Midgets, Juniors and Seniors.

     

    The nieces and nephews are pushing for an Elders group but that hasn’t happened yet.

    So, the seniors are going at it with the youth.

     

    But it’s amazing.

    Nō reira kā kōrero tātou mō tēnei mea ngā concerts, aye.

    Tū ai ngā concerts kī Rotorua, hei whakangāhau i ngā tūruhi.

    He aha pea ētahi kōrero? Puao, moo teena momo mahi? 

    So, let’s talk about the konohete, aye.

    The concerts in Rotorua to entertain the tourists.

    What are some discussions around that, Puao? Around that type of work?

    Mīharo rawa atu, i think that.

    Koinā te wā i tino tūwhera ōku karu, i tino ngākaunui au ki ngā mahi.

    I te mea, i runga i te ātamira kō te Waiata a ringa, he poi.

    Engari te Konohēte he Tī rākau, hē Tītī Tōrea, he poi roa, ngā tāonga pūoro me ngā kōrero i puta mai.

    Ahakoa mo ngā Tūruhi, ko au hoki tēra e ako ana, koirā te take o wēra mahi.

    Engari nō tēra wā, i whakapiki ōku pūkenga mo ēra mahi.

    Anā i āwhina hoki i au mō te mahi kaiakō i roto i ngā mahi haka.

    Nā te mea te nui o ngā rauemi hei whakamahi, ki te whakakotahi tētahi hōtaka haka, ko tāea e koe ko enei mahi katoā me ēnei rauemi ki te whakaraakei i te ao haka.

    Te ao haka.

    Ae tika tonu tēra.

    So amazing! Koirā ōku whakaaro.

    That’s where my eyes were truly opened, when I became really passionate about this.

    Because on stage, you have action songs, poi.

    But at the concerts, you have long stick games and short stick games, long poi, other musical instruments and narration.

    Although it’s for the tourists, I was also learning. That’s the crux of that type of work.

     

    Because of that, my skills improved.

    It also helped me as a kapa haka tutor.

     

    Because we had so many resources at our disposal to bring together a bracket. You could do everything with these resources to embellish your haka world.

    Haka world.

    Yes, very true.

    Brons, pēhea koe?

    Whakaraka, Games of dexterity. Mēnā i aro ki te short stick and long stick games, ki tērā momo me tana ātaahua. He aha tāu i whakaako ai ki ngā tourists mō ngā games of dexterity?

    Brons, what about you? 

    If we were to focus on Tītī Tōrea, Tī rākau and the art form and its beauty, what did you teach our tūruhi about whakaraka

    Nā, i te ako tonu au, nē.

    I ngā konohete, kāore e pai mēnā kāore koe e mōhio ki te aha. Ka whiua tikahia koe ki te wāhi hōhonu o te wai.

    Koirā anake te ara e ako ai koe, ka whiua koe ki te wāhi hōhonu, ka kaukau ai.

    Nō reira ka tere ako, nē.

    Nō reira, mō tēnei mea, mō te whakaraka.

    Nā te mea hoki i whakaakona ngā momo katoa, nē.

    I mua i te aro ki te taiaha, ki rākau kē atu rānei.

    Koinei te tūāpapa – me whai koe i tētahi momo pūkenga.

    Ka ako ana koe i ēnei mea, ā, ka tīmata tō kōrero haere ki ētahi tāngata, ka whakamīharo rātou.

    Ka whakamīharo pū atu ki ngā kōrero mō te reretahi o ngā ringa me ngā karu. Ko te raka o ngā whatianga mō te rere o te patu, inā hoki, ka tau te mamae ki ō whatianga.

    Ko ngā momo hoki o te poi.

    I te mea i tipu Pākehā ahau, i whakaaro ake au, ‘He aha ngā tama e mahi nei i te poi? Mā ngā kōhine te poi.’

    Ā, kia ako koe i te hītori mō tērā momo,

    Mō te poi, that once belonged to the males. It was a device to strengthen, so you could better wield the patu.

    Ā, ka tīmata tō ako haere i ngā tūruhi, ka rere ngā pātai.

    Ka tīmata, he pūkenga nui te kōrero, i te mea āe, e tino whakamā ana au, nē.

    Ka whiua ana koe ki te wāhi hōhonu, me tīmata tō kōrero ki te iwi.

    Ka rapirapi koe, e titiro ana koe ki ngā heavens, ‘he aha aku kōrero?’

    Ā, ka aro nui hoki koe i te mea ehara ko koe anake, he hoa hoki kei tō taha.

    Ka pēnei, ‘Kāo kāore anō au kia rite, kāore anō au kia rite.’ Kia tae ki te wā ka whiua koe e rātou.

    Ka whiu noa rātou i a koe, ‘Kei a koe. Ka tū noa au kia kōrero koe.’

    Ā, mōhio koe ki tō mea tuatahi mō ngā mea katoa ka mahia e koe. 

    Ko te mea tuatahi, ka pēnei, ‘Eah i pēnei…’, engari ka pai haere koe.

    Ā, i waimarie ahau i rongonui ōku rangatira.

    Ā, i mōhio hoki ahau he tohunga rātou.

    Āe, kāore au i te whakarongo ki tētahi atu i a rātou.

    Engari, he tāngata anō i tō rōpū konohete i reira, ka kitea rātou i ngā kapa haka, i ngā kapa haka ake o Te Arawa nē.

    He rawe katoa rātou.

    Nā, ka kite koe i ētahi tāngata, ā rātou momo kōrero, ā rātou momo mahi,

    “Ka mahi te makimaki i tā te makimaki i kite ai.”

    Āe, ko au te makimaki, e mahi ana i ngā mea katoa.

    I te mea he momo ahau, kāore au i…

    Arā atu ngā momo kaingākau, kua hara tātou katoa i konā. Kāore ia e paku pai. Ka mātakitaki kapa haka au i ngā wā katoa.

    “Whakawetongia tērā rāpihi.”

     

    Engari i ngā konohete, he wairua anō ki a au, i te mea, i taku tipuranga Pākehā, tae ana ki taku ara haka, ka tipu, ka kuhu au ki ngā mahi konohete.

    I roa te wā kia tae au ki reira.

    I te akiaki mai ia i a au. I pēnei au, e waia kē ana au ki tētahi kaupapa i te tau, nē.

    He whakataetae ā-rohe, ā-motu rānei.

    Well, see i was still learning aye.

    And concerts you can't afford to not know anything.

    You get chucked in the deep end straight away.

    That's the only way you're gonna learn, is you get chucked in the deep end, and then yeah you start swimming.

    You learn quick alright aye.

    So, things to do with dexterity games.

    Because these were all practices that we were taught aye.

    Prior to even looking at a taiaha, or any weapon.

    They were pretty fundamental, you had to have some sort of skill.

    Once you learn the things and you start telling people about it, yeah, they get blown away.

    Especially when it talks about the hand and eye coordination, Dexterity in the wrist aye for the manipulation of the Patu, cause it takes a toll on your wrist.

     

    Then you had poi implements.

    Cause i grew up keha, so i thought aye whats the boys doing with the poi, the poi is for the girls.

    And then when you learn the history about.

    Te poi nō ngā tāne tēra, he rauemī, kia whakakaha ai, kia pai ai te whiu o tō patū.

    And then when you start teaching the tourist, then you get questions after questions aye.

     

    Then you start, the art form of speaking it, yeah cause shy as aye.

    When you get chucked in the deep end and you gotta talk to the people.

    And your scratching, you’re looking to the Rangi Tuhāhā of “what should i say?”

    Like you pay attention too, cause you're not by yourself, you've got other friends with you.

    It's like “Nah i'm not ready yet, i'm not ready yet”. Until the time when it's ready they throw you off.

    They just chuck you in the deep end “It's your turn and I'll just stand here, until you say something”.

    And you know your first one in everything that you do.

    The first ones always like “eah that was” but you get better and better at it.

    And I was just fortunate I had a lot of bosses that were well known.

    And I knew that they were mean.

    Yeah, I'm not listening to anybody else but them.

    But you had your other members in your concert group there, you know you see them all in the Kapa Haka teams, especially the Te Arawa teams aye.

    Their all mean.

    And when you see certain people like.

    And the certain things they say, and the things they do.

    “Monkey say, monkey do”

    Yeah, I was the monkey, I was doing it all.

    Cause i was a freak aye i just didn't.

    Ara atu anō ngā freaks aye, were all guilty we can bloody, She hates it. I play hakas all the time.

    “Turn that bloody rubbish off”.

     

     

    But with the concerts it was a buzz cause i, you know growing up as a keha, then my journey in haka, then it became, then I got into concerts.

     

    Which took a while for me to get there.

    She was like encouraging me, I was like I'm used to a once-a-year sort of a thing you know.

    A regional or a Nationals you know.

    Nō reira i parakatihi haere koe i ngā [hōtaka] konohete i te ako haere koe?

    So, did you go away and practice for the concerts if you were learning?

    I a au i ngā konohete, i te ako ahau i te tohu Paetahi o Ngā Mahi a Rēhia i Taiwere, Te Wānanga o Aotearoa.

    I waimarie ahau ki te ako i raro i a Elsie Rakuraku, Rakema Sincoms, Kimoro Taiepa.

    Me ētahi atu i tūtaki au i roto i ngā tau ako.

    Nō reira, i waimarie mātou he Ngāti Rangiwewehi i reira.

    Ka ako mātou i ngā waiata pērā i a Pūkākī, ka haria mai ngā hoa – Uncle Trev me Aunty Atareta.

    I waimarie mātou i haere mai rāua ki te whakaako i a mātou.

    He tāngata anō ka haere mai ki a mātou, he hunga i whakaakona e ētahi i mate kē, ka kuhu mai rātou ki te whakaako i a mātou.

    Āpiti atu ki ngā mahi konohete, i te parakatihi ahau i taku kura. Ka rumakina au ki ngā mea katoa mō te kapa haka, Māori, ngā mea katoa.

    So, during concerts I was doing my Degree in Māori Performing arts at Taiwere, Te Wānanga o Aotearoa.

    And lucky enough to be tutored by Elsea Rakuraku, Rakema Sincoms, Kimaro Taepa.

    And many others that we were introduced to over the years of studying.

    So, we were fortunate that there used to be a Ngāti Rangiwēwehi.

    So, when we would learn songs like Pūkaki, they would bring in their friends Uncle Trev and Aunty Atareta.

    We were fortunate enough that they would come in and teach us.

    And we had, or we had people that would come in that were taught by certain people that had passed on, they would come in and tutor us.

    As well as going to Concert, I was practicing during the day and my course. I just immersed myself in anything to do with kapa haka māori, anything.

    Kā mau te wehi!

     

    Nō reira, haere tonu ana ki ō kōrua kapa pakeke tuatahi. Puao, ko wai tō kapa haka pakeke tuatahi?

    How amazing! 

     

    So then going over into your first adult teams.

    Puao, who was your first adult team of Te Ao Haka?

    Te Wānanga o Aotearoa ki Rotorua.

    Ana kō Uncle Barton Rakuraku rāua kō Aunty Elsea ngā kaiako i taua wā.

    Anā i tōia mai mātou e taku kaihangā, tautoko ia rātou.

    Anā mīharo ki au.

    I taua wā, he tangata kaingākau hoki ahau. 14 aku tau, nō reira, 14, koirā te wā kia kaingākau rawa atu 

    A e mīharo ki ahau. Ko au tētahi i mahi noa i te mahi ka kīia mai au, ka mahi noa.

     

    I rongo au i te wairua pai i waenganui i te katoa, ā, i reira ētahi i te pakeketanga kotahi ki a māua.

    Engari he whakapakari noa ia mātou i roto i Te Ao Haka.

    Marakerake ana i kitea e tō mātou kaihangā i ēra pūkenga o mātou, nōreira i uru atu mātou ki te āwhina.

    Nā, kia kī anō, ko te haka noa iho

    Te Wānanga o Aotearoa ki Rotorua.

    Uncle Barton Rakuraku and Aunty Elsea were the tutors at the time.

    They brought in my cousin who helped them.

    It was amazing to me.

    Back then, I was i freak too, I was 14 so you know 14 that's the time to be a freak.

     

    Yes, I found it amazing. And I was somebody that just did the mahi when I was told what to do, you just do it.

    I just had a really good buzz with everybody, and the whanau and there was a lot of people also in our age group.

     

    But we developed our skills in Te Ao Haka.

    Obviously, my cousin saw those skills in us and we went in to help.

     

    And again, it was just haka.

    Rawe, kia koe Brons.

    Mean. Over to you, Brons.

    Te Whānau a Tūtawake

    1999, koirā taku kapa pakeke tuatahi.

    I whakaakona e Aunty Emma Rogers and her daughters, Aunty Trivan, Aunty Blife me Aunty Pixie, Piko.

    Ka kuhu mai hoki a uncl Con.

    I waimarie hoki mātou i kuhu mai hoki tētahi o ngā whanaunga nō Waka Huia, your elder, Uncle Billy T.

    Bill Tāngira. He pahi nui tērā.

    I te mea hoki kua haere mai i Waka Huia. Āe, God.

     

    Ahakoa i a mātou ō mātou matua kēkē, he Whānau a Apanui hoki mātou – oh kāo, ko Waka Huia tēnei.

    Nō reira i waimarie mātou i te kuhunga mai o uncle Bill, ko tōna wairua noa, ōna mātauranga.

    Āe, ko te hōhonu o te knowledge, hāngai pū hoki ki ōna rā i Waihīrere.

    Ko tana tae noa mai he mīharo. Ahakoa i tae mai ia i ngā wiki e rua, e toru pea i mua i te ā-rohe.

     

    Ka kuhu tonu mai ia i ngā kūaha.

    Ko te kīanga hoki i ērā wā ko te “Caz”.

    Ka kuhu mai ana ia, “Chur caz, kei te uru mai koe [ki te kapa]? Ka kī mai ia, “Aye?”

    Āna, ka uru mai i te mutunga iho.

    Ka kōrero mai ia ki a mātou kia, mōhio koe,whakamanamana, whakahīhī 

    Kia kī noa mai ki a mātou i te pai noa iho mātou, i a mātou ngā pūkenga, ā, mahia ngā mahi.

    Ko ia tētahi o ērā momo tāne ka kī, “Kaua e kōrero mai. Whakaatu mai.”

    Ā ka pērā mātou.

    Nā, ka kūmea au i te rārangi.

    I te mea ko au te pōtiki, kei muri ahau.

    Mōhio koe, ka whakauru koe i a koe anō ki muri.

    Mea rawa ake, “A koe, haere mai koe ki mua.”

    Ā, i te mea hoki kei te taha au i te rārangi o muri, ka pai ka neke whakamua au. “Kāo, kāo, kāo, haere tonu.”

     

    Kei te hipa haere au i aku mātua kēkē, aye, mea rawa ake mō taku ā-rohe tuatahi 1990, 14, ko au te tangata o waenga mō Te Whānau a Tūtawake.

    Āe, ko au a waenga.

    I muri i tērā, ka pēnei noa au, fah aye.

    Ā, ka kuhu mārika ahau.

    I te mea ko āna kupu whakaihiihi.

    Kāore he aha ki a au mēnā i te kōrero ki te katoa, ko te hāngai ki a au.

    Nō reira, ko te hāngai ki a au.

    I pēnei au, “E hiahia ana au ki te kawe i a koutou katoa.”

    Nā, whai muri i tērā kōrero whakaihiihi, ka puta te taniwha i te rua. Mai i tērā wā, i kī ia, “Whakapau kaha, hoki rānei ki te kāinga."

    Kua noho tērā ki a au mai i tērā wā ki tēnei wā, kia whakapau kaha, whakamanatia, kaua e māharahara mō te aha. Ko te mea nui kia kōrerohia ō kupu, mahia ō ā-ringa, oh āe, kaua e rorirori te āhua.

    Nō reira koirā taku kapa haka tuatahi.

    Kāore mātou i kuhu [ki te ā-motu] i taua tau, engari kāore he aha ki a au. Ko te mahi noa i te kapa haka te whāinga.

    Te Whanau ā Tū tauake.

    1999 was my first senior group.

    And tutored by Aunty Emma Rodgers, and wāna tamāhine.

    Aunty Trivan, Aunty Blife and Aunty Pixie, Piko.

    And Uncle Con would come in.

    And also, we were lucky enough that one of our Whanaungā from Waka Huia jumped in, too koroua Uncle Billy T.

    Bill Tāngira, so that was a big bus.

    Cause you know he had just come from Waka Huia, yeah Atua.

    Even though we had like our uncles, and we were Whanau Apanui, oh no this is Waka Huia.

     

    So, we were fortunate to have Uncle Bill come in, and just his presence.

     

    Yeah, his depth of mātauranga, especially in his days of Waihirere.

    Yeah, just him being there was awesome, although he would have jumped in about 2 or 3 weeks before the regionals.

    Soon as he walked through the doors.

    And because the slang back then was “Caz”.

     

    And soon as he walked in “Chur caz, ah you're jumping in” and he’s like aye.

    Yeah, he ended up jumping in.

    And then yeah had a talk with us, just to you know, be proud, be full of energy.

    Just to tell us that you know, we're perfectly fine and we are capable and just get on with it.

    And he was pretty much one of those fellas that don't show me aye, pretty much “Don’t tell me, Show me”.

    And we pretty much done that yeah.

    And then he would’ve pulled me out of the line.

    Cause i'm the youngest im at the back aye.

    You know you just delegate yourself to the back.

    Next minute “You, you come here in the front.”

     

    And then cause i'm at the end in the back, oh okay i'll come up.

    “Nah nah nah keep on going.”

    And then I’m passing all my uncles, aye next minute my first Regionals 1990, 14 I was the middleman for Te Whanau a Tutauake.

     

    Yeah, I was the middleman.

    And, from then i was just like fuhh aye.

    And then I just really got into it.

    Cause his preps were like.

    I was taking it like i didn't care about if he was talking to everybody, it's just what it meant to me.

    What it meant to me.

    So, I was like “I wanna take all of you”.

     

    And then, cause after that prep I just went hard aye. And ever since he goes, “just go hard or go home”.

    And I've had that thing ever since, till now just go hard, and just go mana aye, who cares about anything as long as you say your words, do your

    actions, and yeah don't look stupid.

    So that's my first Kapa haka team.

    Yeah, we didn't make it that year, but it was nothing to me, just doing kapa Haka was the goal.

     

    Ināianei, he kaihaka kōrua tahi o Te Whānau a Apanui.

     

    Puao, kō koe te kai taataki o taaua kapa, I pēhea ō kare-ā-roto i taua wā?

    And so now you're both current members of Te Whanau a Apanui.

     

    Puao you are the female leader of that group. How did that happen? How did you feel at the time?

    He pātai pai tērā.

    Ka pātai au.

    Nā, me kī pēnei pea, i kite pea rātou i ētahi pūkenga i a au, hei tautoko i a rātou.

    I te mea, he apataki noa iho ahau, he tauhou ahau ki te tāera. I mate ahau ki te whakatangatanga i taku tinana, i aku waewae i te tū, mōhio koe, taku tū ā-Tūhoe.

    Ki te karawhiu. Heoi, ehara i te mea ko taku raru ko te tū hei kaitātaki, ko taku raru ko te tū hei kaitātaki mō tētahi o ngā tino kapa o Aotearoa.

    O te ao.

    Koinā taku āheinga nui.

    Ā, kātahi anō ka tino tau whai muri i taku terenga tuaono, tuawaru rānei me te kapa. Kaitoa, kua tau ngā piropiro.

    Engari, he maringa nui i te mea kua tipu ahau hei kaitātaki, hei kaihaka, hei kaiako anō hoki. E taea ana e au te āwhina i ētahi atu kaitātaki nō ngā rōpū kua whakaakona e au.

     

    Engari he whakamataku anō hoki i te wā kotahi, nē.

    I waia au ki te tū i tētahi hōro, 500 tāngata. Ka tū ki te Matatini, 500,000 tāngata.

     

    Ko te mea nui, kia pai aku mahi.

    Thats a good question.

    I'll ask though.

    Well, I gotta say they may have seen some pukenga that I had that could support them.

    I mean I was just a prosy, you know, I was new to the style, so I had to loosen up my body, my legs from standing, you know my Tūhoe stance.

    To shaking it but being the leader for the kapa wasn't even the problem it was, my problem was being the leader for one of the best teams in New Zealand.

    In the world.

    That was my big shot.

    And I only just got over it like after my 6th or 8th Campaign, with the group, yeah finally got over myself.

    But it's actually been a privilege, and cause i have grown as a leader, as a Kaihaka, as a tutor as well, and I'm able to help other leaders in the Kapa that I have tutored.

     

     

    But it was scary at the same time you know.

     

    I was used to performing in a hall, 500 people. And then go to Matatini, 500 thousand people, you know.

    It was you know, as long as I did a good job.

    I pēhea te wairua i tō Matatini tuatahi ka tū koe hei kaitātaki?

    What was the buzz like in your first Matatini when you led the roopu?

    Mataku.

    Scary.

    Āe. I pēhea tō whakarite i a koe anō?

    Yeah, how did you prepare yourself?

    I noho noa au i tētahi kokonga, mō tētahi mutunga wiki katoa, ka toai, ka toai, ka toai, ka toai i ngā mea katoa me mahi ahau mā te kapa, kia mōhio ai au i te tika aku mahi.

    Me te whakaaro i a au ngā pūkenga, ko te whakatutuki noa ki tētahi taumata tino pai.

    Kia kaua ētahi e mea, “He aha rātou i kōwhiri ai i a ia hei kaitātaki?”

    Engari ahakoa mēnā rātou i pērā, kāhore he aha ki a au. Engari kua tino ngahau i tō rātou taha, ahakoa te mahi nui, te uaua.

    Kua nui ngā akoranga mai ki a au.

    Ka whakatō rātou i te whakaaro e taea ana e au, kāore hoki e mate ki te pātai mai me aha au.

    Engari mēnā he mea i pīrangi rātou kia mahi au, ka pēnei au, “Ka pai, ka ngana au.”

    Nā, rua wiki i mua i te tū ka kī mai, “Oh, māu te traitional chant?”

    “Ka ngana au.” Ka pai.

    Koirā tāku i kī ai ka pātai mai ana rātou.

    I just stayed in a corner, for a whole weekend I just went over, and over, and over, and over everything that I had to do for the roopu, just to make sure that I was doing everything right.

    And that I was capable of doing it, and just really really doing a good job at it.

    Without anyone saying, “Why did they put her as the leader?”

    But even if they did, I don't really care. But I have had fun with them, even though it was hardout and hard.

    But I've learnt a lot from them.

    And they just kind of make me feel like I can do it, without them asking me what to do.

    But if there were things, they wanted me to do i would do it like “Okay i will try”.

    And like you know like 2 weeks before the performance “Oh can you do the Mōteatea?”

    “I'll give it a try” yup alright then.

    That's how my reaction was to them when they asked.

    He mīharotanga nui tēna.

    Brons, pēhea koe mō te āhuatanga ki te tū ki Te Whanau a Apanui.

    Me aha?

    He aha ētahi kōrero akiaki ka tukuna e koe mō te noho roa, mō te ū?

    Mō te pōhiri rānei i ō uri ki te hoki ki te kāinga ki te ako mō rātou anō, pērā i a koe?

    That’s amazing.

    Brons, what are your thoughts regarding standing with Te Whānau a Apanui?

    What does it take?

    And what advice could you give about being loyal, and staying committed.

    Or inviting your uri to come home, to learn about themselves as you did.

    Āe, nā, haere noa mai.

    I te mea, ā, pērā hoki i tērā atu o ō mātou kapa, kei te puare te kūaha i ngā wā katoa.

    Ahakoa ko tēhea kapa, haere.

    Tauira Mai Tawhiti, Te Whānau a Tūtawake, Te Whānau a Apanui rānei.

    Ahakoa kotahi noa pea te maringitanga o te toto Apanui, haere noa mai, ka kore koe e mōhio.

    Ka kore koe e mōhio ka aha.

    Nā, i tīmata taku whakahoki mai i ētahi o ōku hoa i te mea i kī rātou, “Fah, e hiahia noa ana ki te whakamātau.”

    Te hunga i whakahokia mai, nō iwi kē rātou, he kapa ake ō rātou.

    Kua pātaingia rātou kia hoki ki ō rātou ake kapa.

    Ka kī, “Nah, he kapa ake tō mātou.”

    He pūmau. Nō reira he kōrero nui ka tae mai ana tētahi pērā i a Puao, nō iwi kē.

    Ka mate ki te ako anō i ngā mea katoa.

    Ka noho hei kaitātaki. Āe, kua kore au i pohewa.

    Engari, mō ā tātou tamariki kei waho rā e hiahia ana ki te hoki mai.

    Hoki mai. Āe.

    Ko tētahi haurua o te kapa ka noho ki waho i te rohenga ā-iwi.

    Ko tētahi haurua i konei, ko tētahi haurua i waho rā.

    Nō reira, i runga i tērā kōrero, ko te nuinga o tō mātou iwi ka noho i waho ake i tō mātou iwi.

    Ehara i te mea he tokomaha tātou i konei, nō reira ka ākina te katoa kia hoki mai.

    I te mea ki te kore koe e mōhio, koinei te wāhi ka mōhio koe.

    Ko te kapa haka te wāhi kia tūtaki ai koe ki ngā whānau, ngā whānau maha i te wāhi kotahi.

    Koirā tētahi mea o te kapa haka, he whānau koe.

    Ngā hononga, ngā whakapapa ki tō whānau.

    Kāore pea mātou e mōhio ki tērā whānau, engari mā mātou koe e ārahi ki tērā whānau.

    Ko ētahi o tērā whānau kāore e mahi haka i te iwi, ka whai whanaunga ana, ka tīmata tā rātou haere mai.

    Kātahi ko ō rātou pākeke, ō rātou kaumātua ka haere mai ki te kapa ki te mātakitaki noa. 

    Mea rawa ake ko rātou ō mātou ringawera.

    Ka mahi rātou i ngā mea katoa mā te kapa i te mea kei roto rā tā rātou mokopuna, tō rātou whanaunga.

    Nō reira, mēnā koe e mōhio ana he Whānau a Apanui koe, ā, e hiahia ana koe ki te, tuatahi ake, kuhu ki te kapa haka, koinei katoa ngā mea āpiti.

    Whanau, kōina te mea nui tee whanaungatanga.

    Nā mai i te whanaungatanga, ka puea ake tētahi wairua e kaha ana, pērā i ērā atu kapa, kei a rātou tētahi wairua.

    Ā, ka wāhi mōhio koe mēnā kei te rere pai, kāore rānei i te rere. Engari kia hoki mai tētahi tokonui i ōu ake, ka kaha ake tō presence.

    He wairua ātaahua, nē.

    Ko tētahi mea i mokemoketia e au i te kapa haka i te wā o te mate kowheori ko te whanaungatanga.

    Ko te kite ā-kanohi i te family.

    I aha rātou i waenganui i te wiki.

    Tērā pea i pēnei, kāore au i te mōhio.

    Ko te mea e mokemoke nei ngā kapa whānui, ko te kite anō i a rātou whanau.

    Nā te roa o te whakatā, pērā i ērā atu kapa.

    He pēpi hou kua whānau mai.

    I tō mātou kapa, ki taku mōhio 15 ngā tamariki hou, ngā tāpiritanga hou ki te kapa.

    Ko waenga tērā i te kowheori. Nō reira ka wātea ki te tūtaki ki ērā whanaunga o mātou, ngā irāmutu, ngā mokopuna.

    Nō reira, ka haere mai ana ngā tāngata i Tāmaki pea, i hea rānei.

     

    Ka nui ake tō rātou whānau.

    Ā, ka mōhio haere mātou ko wai pū a Te Whānau a Apanui.

    Koinei ahau, ētahi atu anō hoki, e mahi kapa haka nei. Ka haka kia whakahīhī ai te katoa nō Te Whānau a Apanui, nō Te Whakatōhea, nō hea ake rānei.

    Koirā te mea nui ki a au. Kōirā te toa.

    Ko te whakahīhī o tō mātou iwi.

    Ā, he waiata hoki ā mātou.

    “Winning in love.”

    He mea tāpiri noa ērā atu mea

    Yeah well, just get here.

    Yeah cause, and just like our other team the doors are always open.

    Doesn't matter which team you go to, just get there.

    Whether it'll be Tauira mai Tawhiti, Te Whanau a Tuutauke, whether it would be Te Whanau a Apanui.

    If you even got a drop of blood of Apanui just come, you just never know.

    You never know what could happen.

    See i started bringing some of my friends back cause they just like “Fuh we wanna try it out aye”.

     

    These guys that i brought back, they from other iwi that got their own kapa aye.

    And they've been asked to go back to their kapas.

    And they just “Nah, we've got our kapa”.

    And they're just loyal, so that's a bit of a testimony in itself that when somebody just like Puao, different iwi.

    Had to relearn pretty much everything.

    And yeah, come the leader, yeah i can't imagine yeah.

    But for our kids that are out there that want to come back.

    Just come back cause yeah.

    Half of the team lives outside of the boundary; you know of the iwi.

    Half the team live here, half are out there.

     

    So, in saying that, the majority of our iwi that lives outside of our iwi.

    There's not much of us here, so we encourage everyone to come back.

    Because there, even if you don't know, that's just where you're gonna know.

    Kapa haka is a place that you can meet families, so many families all at once.

     

    Yeah, so that's one thing with Kapa Haka, your whanau.

    The ties the whakapapa within, with your whanau.

    We might not know the whanau, but we can direct you to that whanau.

    And then some of those whanau that don't do Kapa haka in the iwi, when they got a relation there, they start coming.

    Aye, then there Pakeke, their Kaumatua start coming to our Kapa, and watching just to watch.

    And next minute they’re our cooks.

    Aye they do anything for us, aye cause their Mokopuna is in there, or their relation is in there.

    So, if you know your Whanau Apanui, and you want to, first of all join Kapa haka, this is what's gonna come with it.

     

    Family. That’s the main thing, kinship.

     

    And from the kinship it just creates a wairua that's strong like every other kapa, they have this wairua.

    And you sort of know when it's off or when it's on. But when you get a lot of your own coming back, your wairua just gets really strong.

     

    And it's a lovely feeling aye.

    And one thing about kapa haka that I've missed during the covid is whanaungatanga.

    Is actually seeing the whanau aye.

    What they've done during the week aye.

    Could be yeah, or i don't know.

    Just something that all Kapa miss is seeing each other, whanau.

    Because of this long gap, and just like every other kapa.

    There's some new babies that have popped up.

    So, I think in our kapa we got over like 15 newborns, well new additions to the kapa.

    So that was during the covid, so we get to meet those relations of ours, our nephews and nieces, our mokopuna.

    So, when other people come in from you know, our youngsters out in Auckland or wherever they maybe you know.

    Their whanau just gets bigger.

    And then we start to really know who Te Whanau a Apanui is.

    And this is why I do kapa haka and many others.

    They would do it to make everyone that's Whanau a Apanui, or Whakatohea or wherever proud.

    And that's the main thing for me, winning eh.

    Making our people proud, and we got songs.

     

    Kō te wikitōria i runga i te aroha.

    The other things are a bonus.

    I runga i tērā, te karore haere i te ao.

    Kia paku kōrero mō tē karore i te ao i mua i tā tātou whakatepe

    Kei a koe te wā.

    On that, traveling the world.

    Let's talk a little bit about traveling the world, before we wrap it up.

    Over to you.

    Ko taku haerenga tuatahi ko te haere ki Ūropi.

    14 taku pakeke nō reira he hararei noa iho ki a au, nē.

    Hararei me te haka, hararei me te haka.

    Kāore au i tino aro ki ngā āhuatanga i te ponitaka i a au.

    Engari, “Wiiii, kei tāwāhi tātou.”

    Engari i tūtaki au ki ētahi tāngata rawe nō ētahi atu whenua.

    Koirā pea taku, nā, i mua tēnei i te 2000.

    He kōtiro pakupaku au i tērā wā.

    Ā, koirā taku haerenga tuatahi.

    I haere ahau ki Ahitereiria mō te Military Tattoo, ā, hoki ai ki Pōneke anō hoki.

    Mōku, ko te whakakanohi i te Māori.

    “Cast it to the world, cast it to all tribes.”

    Nō reira koirā taku whakaaro o te haere ki tāwāhi.

    To showcase the arts of Hinerēhia and Tānerore.

    Engari kāore au i tino aro ki te wāhi i reira rā au. E tūmanako ana au ināianei i pērā au.

    I haere tawhiti noa au ki te hararei.

    Engari he rawe hoki te tū.

    Over to you, Brons. Kua tae koe ki hea?

    My first trip was over to Europe.

    I was 14 so it was just a holiday for me aye.

     

    Holiday and haka, holiday and haka.

    I didn't really take notice of what was happening around me.

    But just “wow we're overseas”.

    But I did meet some, you know, awesome people from different whenua.

    That was probably my, well that was in 2000.

    I was a real young girl back then.

    And that was my first trip.

    I went to Australia for the Military tattoo, then back into Wellington also.

    They were just for me; it was just representing māoritanga.

    You know, whiua ki te ao, ki te rangi ki ngā iwi katoā.

    And so that was my idea of going overseas.

    Ki te whakaputa i ngā mahi a Hine Rehia ā Tāne Rore.

    But i didn't take notice of actually being there, i wish i did now.

    I mean I went all that way just to have a holiday.

    Cool though, performing.

    Kia koe Brons, where have you been?

    Ko taku haerenga tuatahi.

    Nō reira, i a koe noa i ngā konohete, ka tūtaki ki ngā tāngata maha, ā, ko ō hoa katoa kei ngā kapa rerekē o Te Arawa.

    Ki taku mōhio ko te 2001, Te Mātārae i Ōrehu.

    I toa i a rātou ngā ā-motu i Tūranga.

    Tūranga?

    I te mea, ki aku hoa katoa, ko Apanui taku ingoa.

    Ka haere ana au ki korā, “Apanui”.

    I have an English name.

    Engari ka kī au ki a rātou, “Koutou me ngā ingoa Māori, nō te rangatira ō koutou ingoa. Ko au hoki tērā, nō tētahi kaiwhakaari rongonui taku ingoa, Charles Bronson.”

    Hei aha māku tētahi ingoa Māori. Bronson is a high-ranking name.

    Rata taku pāpā i taua tangata rā, kā tapaina te ingoa ki runga i au me taku Tuakanā.

    Kei a ia te Charles kei au te Bronson

    Nā, tētahi o aku hoa i te Mātārae, i te pātai ki ētahi o ngā tama.

    “Oh, e pāpaku ana te puna kaihaka.”

    Nō reira i pātaingia ahau, ka kī au, “Aye? Ka pai.”

    Ā, hei rangatahi i te whakaaratanga ake o Mārārae, i tino hīkaka ahau. Koirā au i tīmata ai ki te mau rākau, ko te mātaki i a rātou.

    I hōhā ōku mātua, i haere ahau ki te taha moana ki te kimi noa i tētahi rākau.

    He maha aku rākau, e whakapipi ana.

    My mum, taku māmā whakaangi.

    Ka kī mai taku māmā, “Ō pūrari rākau kei konei.”

    Heoi, i a au ēnei tau katoa, ka tae ki te wā,

    “Aye, ka wātea taku tū tahi ki a Mātārae.”

    Nō reira i waimarie ahau ki te haere ki Solomon Islands ki te tū ki te Pacific Arts Festival.

    Mai i reira, kua haere au ki Haina me tētahi kapa nō Te Tai Tokerau, Whangārei, a Te Pū Ao.

    I waimarie taku haere tahi ki a rātou ki Haina.

    I tō taha, i haere tahi ki Te Waka Huia ki Ingarangi, ki Kotirana.

    Pāniora, Wīwī, Amerika, Tahiti, New Caledonia, Whītī, Tonga, Hapāna.

    He wāhi anō.

    2011 ko taku haerenga haka tuatahi, ā, ko te whakamutunga ko mua tata i te noho raka, i haere ki Whītī, ki Tonga.

    I hiahia au ki te rere ki reira me te hoki mai i tētahi kaipuke nui.

    Āe, he tokomaha ngā tāngata e hiahia nei au ki te whakamihi.

    Ki te relation, ki a Wētini Mītai Ngātai, tēnā koe i tō whakawātea i a au kia haere tahi ki tō kapa.

    This mischief from Te Whānau a Apanui.

    Te Pū Ao me ō rātou kaiako.

    Ko tētahi atu tangata matua ko tētahi tangata, ko Jamus Webster.

    I tata ai māua ko te whanaunga, nō konei hoki. I te wā ka tū ia hei rangatira mō mātou i Tāmaki Tours. Koirā te wāhi i mahi ai au i ngā konohete, Tāmaki Tours.

    I āhua kite au i a ia, engari kāore au i mōhio ki a ia. I mōhio au ko ia te mēne.

    Well, my very first trip.

    So, as you do in Concerts you meet a lot of people aye, and all your mates there from all the different Te Arawa teams.

    So, i think it was 2001, Te Mātārae I Ōrehu.

     They had won the Nationals in GIsborne.

    Gizzy?

     

    Cause all my mates aye, my names Apanui aye.

    When i go over there “Apanui”.

    He ingo pākeha tāku.

    But i tell them “You know you fullas with the Māori names you were named after Rangatira aye, i am too, im am too, im named after a famous actor Charles Bronson”.

    So, I don't need a Māori name, Bronson tino ingoa tēra.

    My dad really liked that guy. He gave my older brother the first name.

    He got Charles, I got Bronson.

    So, you know, one of my mates he was in Mātārae, and so he was asking some of the boys.

    “Oh, we're a bit low on numbers”.

    And so yeah, the question was thrown to me and i was like “aye okay”.

    And you know as a youngster as Mātārae first come out it was like yeah, that's how I started rākau, watching them.

    My parents used to get hōhā, i used to go on the beach specifically just to find rakau.

    And I had stacks of them, you know stacks of them.

    Taku māmā, step mum.

    My mum she would tell me “Your bloody sticks all over here”.

    Anyway, I had all these years until the day came.

    “Aye I get to perform with Mātārae”.

    And so, I was fortunate enough to go over to the Solomon Islands and perform at the Pacific arts festival.

    And from there ive, went to China with a team from up the Far North, Whangarei ā Te Pūao.

     

    Was fortunate enough to go to China with them.

    Alongside yourself we went over to England, Scotland with, alongside Te Waka Huia.

    Spain, France, America, Tahiti, New Caledonia, Fiji, Tonga, Japan.

    And there's a few other places from.

    2011 was my first time going on a Haka trip, and my last one was just before the covid we went to Fiji, Tonga.

    I wanted to fly over there and come back on a cruise ship.

    And yeah, there's a lot of people I would thank, and them.

    Like the whanaungā Wēteni Mītai Ngātai, thank you for allowing me to go with your team.

     

    Tēnei hiahia nō Te whanau a Apanui.

    And the others te Puao, their tutors.

    One of the main ones is actually a guy known as Jamus Webster.

    So, how I became pretty close with the whanaungā, you know nō kōnei hoki. When he became our boss at Tāmaki tours, this is where I was working doing concerts, Tāmaki tours.

    I sort of seen him before but never actually knew him, I knew he was the man.

    He āhua pai ia.

    He’s alright.

    Nō reira, mai i reira, ko taua akoranga nā uncle Billy T.

    Ka whāia noatia e koe ngā mea katoa.

    He has so many other skills.

    I ngana au ki te āta tō mai i ngā mea katoa i a ia.

    Ko au tērā, nā, ka mātaki i a ia i Te Mātārae, heoi anō ērā atu, “Oh nō Mātārae ia, kei te kōrero ia ki a tātou.”

    I kitea ētahi skills hei rau ki taku basket, nē.

    I te mea, the basket i tīmata hei basket iti, kātahi ka kī haere.

    Me waihanga he kete hou, kātahi ka riro te basket.

    Ka kī haere ngā mea katoa.

    I waimarie ahau i mōhio au, me whakapau kaha i ngā wā katoa me tēnei tangata.

    Kāore au e mōhio mēnā i te kā au i ngā wā katoa.

    Engari, ko ia i hari i a au i taku haerenga tuatahi.

    Ka tūtakina ētahi tāngata pērā, ka hiahia ki te hari i a koe ki ngā haerenga. Ka kore rawa au e wareware. Ā, e hiahia ana au ki te eke ki te taumata mōu.

    Kaua noa iho mō ngā mea Te Whānau a Apanui, engari mō te mana, te mana o taua tangata.

    Ka whakapau kaha koe, kāore he aha ko wai kei ō tahataha e haka ana, ka whakapau kaha, kotahi rau paehēneti. Māna, āe.

    Māna, ka noho kāinga, ka noho kāinga tūturu.

    Ka pātai mai te tini hoa, “Ka pēhea tā mātou haere ki ērā haerenga?”

    Ka kī au, “Whakapau kaha. Me kaha. Kia kaha ki te waiata, kia kaha ki te waiata, kohia hoki ētahi atu pūkenga.”

    Mōhio koe, e ako ana i ngā wā katoa, i ngā wā katoa.

    Tē taea e koe te kī mai e mōhio ana koe ki ngā mea katoa. Kei te ako tonu ngā tohunga, e ako tonu ana.

    Nō reira, he wāhi nui tō ngā konohete i taku ao haka.

    Waihoki ngā tāngata, i taku tipuranga i te ao haka.

    Ahakoa competition, ahakoa non-competiton. Koirā ngā mea pai, non-competition.

    Heoi, āe.

    So, from then I sort of had that thing from Uncle Billy T you know.

    You just bloody mimic whatever.

    Ara atu anō ōna pūkenga.

    You know I would try to squeeze what he had to offer as well.

    I was the, you know, watching him through Mātārae, and yet all the others “oh theres a fella Mātārae he's actually taking us”.

    I got some more pūkenga to put in my kete aye.

    Cause the kete started off with you know, little kete then that got full.

    I got to get a new one, then the kete’s gone you know.

    Everythings getting filled up.

    And i was just fortunate enough that i know just go hard with this fulla, be on all the time.

    I don't know if I was on all the time.

    Yeah, I just knew that he took me on my first trip.

     

    You get people like that, when they take you on trips. I'll never forget that, and I want to do the best I can for you.

    Not only for things, for I'm Whanau Apanui so yeah, you know the reputation and more so his reputation.

     

    You just go hard, it doesn't matter who you haka with, you just go hard, go hundy or yeah.

    Or stay home, you end up staying home.

     

    A lot of friends used to go “How do we get on these trips?”.

    “I just go hard eah, just go hard, sing your heart out, Haka hard out, yeah pick up the pūkenga on the side aye”.

    You know, you're always learning, always.

    You can’t tell me you know everything, even the masters are learning aye, they are still learning.

     

    So, concerts are a very instrumental part of my Kapa Haka life.

    And everyone that’s got to do with the growth of my Kapa Haka.

    Whether it be whakataetae,whether it be whakangāhau, those are the best ones is the whakangāhau.

    But yeah.

    So, Haka does take you around the world, aye Puao?

    Nō reira, ka hari te kapa haka i a koe ki te ao, Puao?

    Well, every time that, cause my dad, he grew up in that era where “That’s not going to get you anywhere”.

    So, the first trip that I went on, he was the first person I rang.

    And then I’ve done it every time, every single trip and now he’s become accustomed.

    You know, mē ōna reo tiotio.

    “Where are you going now?”.  You know?

    It's not even a Kia ora or a hello.

    I just want to remind him that “you told me this wouldn't get me anywhere, and now I'm going to reminding you until”….

    Yeah, until his day comes, I'm still gonna remind him that Kapa Haka gets you anywhere.

    Yeah, calls me a “Tin a**” at the times, yeah, all the time.

    Nō reira, i ia wā ka – i te mea ko taku pāpā i tipu i te wā i kī, “Kāore tērā e paku hari i a koe ki hea.”

     

    Nō reira, ko te haerenga tuatahi i haere ai au, ko ia te tangata tuatahi i waeahia e au.

    Ā, kua pērā ahau i ia wā, i ia haerenga, ā kua waia ia ināianei.

    Mōhio rā, in his irritated voice.

    “Kei te haere koe ki hea ināianei?”

    Kua kore he ‘Kia ora’, he ‘Hello.’

    E hiahia noa ana au ki te whakamahara i a ia, “Nāu te kōrero ka kore tēnei e paku hari i a au ki hea rānei. Nō reira, ka whakamahara au i a koe, tae noa ki te wā ka –“

    Kia tae ki tōna rā whakamutunga, ka whakamahara au i a ia, mā te kapa haka koe e hari ki te ao.

    Ko te “Tin a**” tana kī mai i aua wā, i ngā wā katoa.

    Hei whakakōpane ake ia tātou kōrero I tēnei wā nei.

    He aha ētahi kōrero akiaki e toru hei tukunga ki ā tātou ākonga e mahi ana, e hiahia ana rānei ki te kuhu ki te ao haka, ki te whai rānei i tēnei hei ara mahi?

    Kā tīmata Kia koe Puao.

     

    Whakapau kaha, ūpoko pakarū.

    Mē te whakātu i ngā mahi anō nei e tino ngākaunuitia ana e koe, anā kō te reo hoki tēra.

    Nā te mea kō ngā mahi katoā kei roto i te reo.

    To end our kōrero at this time,

    What’s 3 pieces of advice that you could give to our ākonga who are, who want to take part in Te Ao Haka?

    Or follow this as a pathway.

    We’ll start with you Puao.

     

    Work hard, don’t give up.

    Perform like you love it. And the language.

     

    Because everything is done in the language.

    Ae, kia ora.

    Yes. Thank you.

    He maha ngā kupu e taea ana, heoi.

    Tētahi mea hei akiaki i ngā tamariki ki te kuhu ko te,

    Whakamātau!

    I te mea ka kore koe e mōhio ki te kore koe e whakamātau.

    I te mea, he iwi whakamā tātou nē,

    Te iwi Māori. Kāore tātou e mōhio ki ō tātou painga.

    I’m a bit jealous i te mea kāore mātou i waimarie kia noho te kapa haka hei kaupapa ako.

    I tōna tikanga kua pēnei i te 20 tau ki muri. Nō reira, MOE, i hea koutou? I mahue ko mātou.

    Heoi, āe, pērā i ngā kōrero a Puao.

    Kuhuna, rumakina tō ao ki ngā mea katoa o tō tātou ahurea, i te mea he ātaahua.

    Ka haria koe ki tāwāhi. Engari kaua ko tērā anake, ka whakatipuria te māia.

    Ko tētahi mea e mōhio ana au, ko te tū i mua i te tangata ki te kōrero, that’s difficult.

    Mō ētahi e whakamā ana, ko te kapa haka tētahi mea e whakaputa ai tērā mea i roto i a koe.

    Ka huri te whakamā. Ka tū tutahi, he nui, engari ka iti haere pērā i tēnei te iti, pēnei i te keha.

    Ka taea te kōpēpē, ka whiua. Mea rawa ake, kei taumata kē koe.

    Kua nui tō māia, kua kore tētahi e kata.

    Mā tō māia, ka tuwhera tō ao.

    I te mea kua pērā rawa te maha o ngā ara, kāore i te paku hātakēhi, pono, kāore i te paku hātakēhi.

    Āe, kōrero i mua i te tangata, uaua. Kapa haka.

    Ka panaia tō whakamā. Me āhua ako, engari ka tae koe ki tērā wāhi, ka tae koe.

    Manawaroa.

    There’s many words you can say but…

    Something to encourage our kids to get in there is just.

    Try it!

    You know, cause you don’t know unless you get in there.

    Cause we’re pretty shy people you know.

    Te iwi māori we just don’t know what we actually got going for us.

    Kā harawene tēnei, because we weren't fortunate to have a subject “Kapa Haka” come on.

    This should have been around 20 years ago so the MOE, where you fullas been we missed out.

     

    But yeah, pretty much what Puao said.

    Just get in there and indulge yourself in everything that our culture has to offer, because it's beautiful.

    It takes you on trips overseas but that's not the only thing, like get so many, it builds courage.

    One thing that i know, that one thing is getting up in front of people and talking, he uaua rawa atu tēra

    And for people that are shy, Kapa haka is another thing that brings that thing out of you.

     

    The shyness becomes, like when you're first there it's like huge, but then it ends up being this little like, a flea.

    Where you can squash it and flick it away, and then next minute you're the most you know.

    You've got so much confidence that it's not funny.

    And then from your confidence your world is open.

    Because you've got so many avenues it's not funny, seriously it's not funny.

    Yeah, public speaking hard, Kapa haka.

     

    It gets that shyness out of you and takes a little bit of mastering, but you'll get there, you'll get there.

    Resilience.

    Well, koinā ā tātou kōrero mo tēnei wā.

     

    Tēnei wā?

    Well, that’s the end of our discussions at this time.

     

    This time?

    Mo tēnei wā.

    E reka ana, e reka ana.

    E reka ana te rongo ia kōrua kōrero, ā kua tau anō te mauri ki te whakarongo atu kia kōrua.

    Mē ō nekehanga me ō pūkenga i whanakē ai i roto i ngā tau ki tēnei mea Te Ao Haka.

    Kia kōrua tahi he nui rā te mihi kia kōrua.

    Tēna rā kōrua.

    Tēna koe

    Cuzzy

    For this time.

    How pleasant that was, how sweet.

    It was so pleasing to hear your stories, the life essence has been settled by listening to you both.

    Your talents and skills which were developed through many years of te ao haka.

     

    To you both, thank you.

    Thank you both.

    Thank you.

    Kahi.

    Outro: 

    Bronson Gage displays the stance of Te Whānau a Apanui with his hands on his hope. Camera shows all angles of Bronson in his stance. Screen goes black with Bronson leading a haka in the background. Camera then focuses in on Bronson and Puao standing inposition to perform their haka. Bronson and Puao perform their haka with Ihi, Wehi and Wana.

    Music starts in background and brings to focus a sign saying “Nau mai, haere mai, you are entering the tribal lands of Te Whānau a Apanui”. Camera then shows image of beach side and water breaking on shore and rocks. Camera then pans across water with rocks and land in the background. Waihau Bay lodge and Waihau Bay store buildings shown as visual then changes by passing a house with mountains in the background. A visual of driving along the coast through trees with the road ahead. Visual then changes to a horse on the side of the road with mountains in the background. Quick visuals of grass and then back to the jetty with a small community of houses in the background. Camera then pans down the jetty with visual change to crossing a bridge then the river with mountains in the background. Images of trees and back to the beach side with a tree and houses in the background before black screen appear with the words “Ministry of education, Te tahuhu o te mātauranga.

    [ Accordion ]

    Interviewer: Hukarere Greening

    Interviewee: Maku Ropitini

    Location: Kahungunu

    Intro: 

     

    [With music playing in the background]  

    Being displayed are video images Waitangi Treaty Grounds and northland beaches. Next is a a close up of the wharf beach and the road sign for Kaikohe. Videos of monuments from the north and the whare Runanga at Waitangi Treaty Grounds then back to beaches and a close up on the carved pou. Flicking from images of carvings and beaches with sunsets. Then there is a short snippet of a mural on a street with people walking before shooting to a shot of the Mangamuka Radio station, then the welcome sign in Kaitaia and the road sign of Doubtless Bay and Bay of Islands ending with a shot of the Tino rangatiratanga flag before the final shot of Waitangi with Te Tai Tokerau title. The intro closes off with text “Te Ao Haka” accompanied by the Te Ao Haka logo. 

    Interview commences with the camera focused on husband and wife Chris Henare and Sandra Waitai Henare sitting in a studio setting with interviewer Rawinia Moeau-Pirini sitting across from them beginning the conversation. Throughout the interview the shot go back and forth between interviewees and interviewer. 

    Reo Māori

    Reo Pākehā

    Kia ora Koka Maks

    Hello, Aunty Maks

    Kia ora taku tamāhine

    Hi, my girl.

    Ko wai koe? No hea koe?

    Yes. Who are you and where are you from?

    Kia ora tātou, um ko Maku i te rangi Huata Ropitini ahau.  Ko Hemi Pititi Te Okanga Kahutapere Huata ah toku papa no te uri o Kahungunu ki Wairoa, Kahungunu ki Heretaunga. Ko Ngamoni Huata tōku māmā, nō te uri o Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao. 

    Tūhourangi ka moe a Rongomaipapa o te waka Takitimu, o te waka Te Arawa anei te hononga māreikura

    Greetings all, I am Maku i te rangi Huata Ropitini. My father is Heni Pititi Te Okanga Kahupatere, from Kahungunu ki Wairoa and Kahungunu ki Heretaunga. My mother was Ngamoni Huata from Tūhourangi Ngāti Wahiao. Tūhourangi sleeps with Rongomaipapa of the takitimu canoe,

    the Te Arawa canoe here is the connection.

    Ngā mihi, rawe. Kia ora, awesome, Nau mai ki tā tātou kaupapa o Te Ao Haka i tēnei wā nei. Me te mihi anō ki a koe, kua whai wāhi mai ki te tuari i ō korero, i ō mōhiotanga ki tēnei ao, o te ao kapa haka o te ao haka.

     

    Thank you, awesome. Welcome to Te Ao Haka. Thank you again for finding time to join is today,to share your knowledge around kapa haka and Te Ao Haka.

    Ana ke ha

    Choice

    Rawe. Nā reira ka paku kōrero tāua e pā ana ki ō wheako, ō maharatanga tuatahi o te ao haka. He aha ō maharatanga tuatahi o te ao haka?

    So we're just going to have a little bit of a conversation about your experiences, your memories, earliest memories of Te Ao Haka. What are your earliest memories around Te Ao Haka?

    1967. Koirā te wā i puta ai ahau ki tēnei ao. I pērā taku kōrero nā te mea i whakatōkia kētia te kākano. I te mahi kē ōku tīpuna i ngā mahi kapa haka. I whānau mai ahau ki roto i ēnei mahi.

    Nā reira ā mohoa nei, koirā taku whakatipuranga. Koirā tā mātou i mōhio ai. 

     

    Nā, ko taku koroua ko Te Kenana Wi Te Tau Huata, ko ia taku tino Ko taku koro tēnā, he karakia āna i te mea ko ia te minita. Nāna i tito a “Tūtira Mai Ngā Iwi” me “Whakaaria Mai” aua mea katoa. Kātahi ka mārena ia ki tētahi wahine ātaahua, ki a Ringahora Hēni Ngākai Ybel Tomoana, ko tōna pāpā ko Paraire Tomoana, he kaitito i tōna wā.

     

    I konei kē rātou i mua i taku taenga mai, Pōkarekare Ana, E Pari Rā. 

    Kātahi ka mārena taku pāpā ki tētahi wahine ātaahua nō Tūhourangi, ko taku māmā tēnā. I te whānau o taku māmā, ko ia te kaiwhatu piupiu i tōna wā. 

     

    Nāna ngā piupiu i hanga, ngā pari, ngā tīpare, ngā rāpaki, ngā poi.

    Nā reira i kitea i ngā rangi tōmua te puoro, te tito, te karakia, te hanga poi, te kākahu. Nā reira i taua wā ko tāu noa iho he tū ki te atamira, he whaiwhai haere i te tangata, anā, karawhiua

    Oh, be 1967. That's the day I came out to this world. When I say that, it's because the seed was already planted. All my tūpuna were already doing it. They were doing kapa haka. And this is what I was born into So right through, that's  been my upbringing. That's all we've known Yep, 

     

     

    so my koro, that's Te Kēnana a Wī Te Tau Huata. That's my tino, That's my koro, And my koro, he came with prayer, because he was the minister. He composed Tutira mai nga iwi and whakaaria mai and all that kind of thing And then he married a beautiful woman, Ringahora Hēni Ybel Tomoana, And her father was Paraire Tomoana who wrote songs at that time.

     

    And they were already here before I came. Pōkarekare ana, E pari ra And then my father married a beautiful woman from Tūhourangi which is my mum. And with my mum's family, she came with she was the puipui maker in those days.

     

    She made the puipui She done the pari. She done the tipari, the rapaki, the pois. And so I think with the earliest days for us came music, came composition, came prayers, came poi making, clothes. So by that time, you just got on the stage, followed anybody around, bang, in there

    Kia kōrero tātou e pā ana ki tō māmā me tō pāpā. I pēhea tā rāua whakapakeke i a kōrua i te ao haka? I pēhea tērā? Ko wai rāua?

    Let's talk about your mum and dad. How did they bring you up into Te Ao Haka?

    What was that like? Who are they?

    Ko rāua taku ao. He kaipuoro taku pāpā i aua rā, me te aha, e kōrerotia tonutia ana e te tangata ā mohoa nei. Ka kōrero aku whanaunga, te whānau Wehi, mō taku pāpā. Ko ia tētahi o ngā tino kairakuraku i aua rā. Kei te kōrerotia tonutia ia, 37 tau kua taha, kei te kōrerotia tonutia ia.

     

    Anā, nāna hoki taku māmā i ako. Ka whakaoho taku pāpā i a mātou tahi karaka i te ata, ka kī mai,

    “Hei, hei, hei, he rangi tāku. Matike! Ka pai. Māu tēnei. Māu tēnei. Karawhiua tēnei, karawhiua tēnā.” Ka mukua ō mātou karu, ka homai he rama, ka whakakāngia, ka kī mai, “Anei. Anei tō hopuoro. Tīkina atu te ipu rā, huri kōarohia, arā tō hopuoro.”Āe. Koirā tō mātou whakapakeketanga. 

     

     

    He pēne tō Pāpā, ko Sequioa te ingoa. I tū hoki a “He Toa Takitini” i aua rā. 

    I whai wāhi atu a Māmā rāua ko Pāpā ki a Uncle Bill Kerekere, e ora tonu ana i taua wā. Me Uncle Bub rāua ko Aunty Nen anō hoki. I noho hoki a Uncle Irirangi Tiakiawa ki tō mātou whare. I pērā hoki a Sonny Kepa. Nā reira ko tō mātou whare, he whare e pātōtō ai te tangata, ka tuwhera mai ngā tatau, nau mai haere mai. Āe. Ko tātou tērā. Kia hanga tūmatarau tātou.

     

    Āe. E pērā ana hoki ō mātou whare ināianei, me te aha, ka whāngaihia te iwi. Whāngaihia te iwi, whāngaihia te kapa, whāngaihia te tangata.

     

    Engari koinei ō rātou momo pūkenga, i te wā i a mātou, ko te 3… 4. (E kōrero ana mō ngā taki puoro)

     

    My world. But my daddy was a musician. And those days and people still talk about it today.

    Like my cousins, the Wehi whanau, they talk about my daddy. He was probably one of the

    best guitarists in those days. And people still talk about him. 37 years later, they still talk about him. 

     

     

    And then with that came up my mum. And so I used to teach my mum. You know my dad, he used to get us up. One o'clock in the morning, he goes, hey, hey, hey, I've got a tune. I've got a tune. Get up. Right, you hit this note. You hit this note. You bang that. You bang that. We just wiped our eyes. And he used to give us a lamp and put it in. He goes, here, that's your microphone. You go and get that pot. Just turn upside down. That's your microphone. So that's how we were brought up. 

     

    Dad had a band. It was called Sequoia. They had He toa takitini they were around. Dad and mum were with Uncle Bill Kerekere. He was around then. Uncle Bob and Auntie Lynn, they were around. Uncle Iri Rangi, Taki Awa, he lived with us. Sunny Kepa, he lived with us. So our house was the bit of the knock, knock, and the doors open. you're welcome, yep, that's us. Let's make magic happen. 

     

     

     

     

    Yeah, so in our houses are like that today. And with that, it was always feed the people. Feed the people. Feed the people. Kapa, feed the people. 

     

    But you know, these just go like this. But in the old days, it was three, four.

    [HUMMING]

     

    Wehi nā

    Oh, wow

    Āe. I ēnei rā ka 18, 16, 12, hika, hē noa iho taku kaute. Āe. Engari kua huri te tāera. I te wā o māmā rāua ko pāpā, he ōrite ngā waiata a te katoa, a ia kura, a ia kura tuatahi, kura tuarua. Katoa ka waiata i a Tūtira Mai Ngā Iwi me Whakaaria Mai, ko Me He Manu Rere tā mātou poi. Ko Tōia te waiata. Ko te haka rongonui katoa ko Ka Mate, nā reira i mōhio whānuitia i Aotearoa. I ēnei rā nei, hika, he kounga, ka uru mai a Michael Jackson me tēnei tangata, ka uru mai ngā waiata rekereke. He pai te huri o ngā mahi kapa. Engari me mātua hoki ki te ōrokohanganga.

     

    Yeah, nowadays, they've got one, eight, 16, 12. Oh, heck, I can't even count myself. But the style of it has changed. And so when mum and dad were around, every kura, every school, every primary, secondary school, we all sang the same thing. Everyone would sing Tutira mai nga iwi. Everyone sang  Whakaaria mai. Everyone sang, our poi was Mehe Manurere. You know, when you come to Tōia. that was the song. The most famous  haka was Ka mate. Everybody in the whole of New Zealand knew it. Nowadays, who can they get flash? Michael Jackson comes in,  this fellow comes in, and then reggae music comes in. So the change of kapa is good. But always go back to where it started.

     

    I whakaako ō mātua i ētahi kapa i aua rā? I omaoma rānei koe i ngā rārangi?

    Were your mum and dad tutors of even any teams back then? Do you remember running 

    through lines?

    Āe, i pērā rāua. Ko rātou ko tōku māmā, ko tōku pāpā, ko Kirimaku Kihi. 

    I haere ahau ki Fraser High, ka kī au ki taku pāpā, nā te mea ko Hoana taku ingoa nōku i te kura, ko Maku-i-te Rangi Hoana tōku ingoa. He kore nō te Pākehā I mōhio ki te whakahua i taku ingoa. Nā reira ka karangahia ahau ko Hoana. Āe. Nā te mea kāore ahau i pīrangi kia Maki, kia Maku Nā reira ko Hoana. Kātahi ka haere mātou ki Fraser High. Ko māmā rāua ko pāpā ngā kaiako, me Kirimaku. Ka kī ia, “Maku, haramai, mahia mai tēnei.” Ka kī au, “Pāpā, kia karangahia ahau ko Hoana?” Ko tāna, “E hia ō tau?” Ko tāku, “14.” Ka kī ia,“Tika, e 14 te roa o taku mōhio ki a koe. Ko Maku tō ingoa. Ka mutu ki reira.” Anā, i pērā. 

    Ko tā mātou poi tuatahi ko “Tīmatangia Te Puea e” kua 40 tau ināianei.

     

     

    There was my mum, my dad, and Kiri Maku, Kihi. So I went to Fraser High, and I said to my dad, because at school,  my name was Hoana, because my name is Maku i te rangi Hoana So because the Pakekura say my name, so they call me Hoana. Because I didn't want Maki or Maki, so it was Hoana. Then we went to Fraser High, and mum and dad was the tutor along with Kiri Maku And I said to my dad, he goes, Maku, come and do this. I was going, dad, can you call me Hoana? And he goes, how old are you? And I was going, 14. And he goes, that's right. I've been with you 14 years. Your name is Maku. It will stay like that. So that's how it was. And then that's when our first poi then was "Timatangia Te Puea e . . ." So you know, that's 40 years ago now.

     

     

    Āe. Rawe

    Yeah, Mean

    Āe, koirā noa tā mātou i mōhio ai. E tū, waiata. Waiata, kai, hoki mai

    And that's all we knew. Just get up, sing. Sing, eat, come back

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    Kāore mātou i haria ki te papa tākaro me aua mahi. I ako noa mātou ki te tunu kai. Ka tū, ka waiata. 

    Koirā tō mātou whakapakeketanga

    Yeah. So we didn't have the

    go to the park or do that. It was just we learnt how to cook. We just get up, just sing

    Ko ngā tau tōmua o ngā 70 tērā, nē. I pēhea te mahi haka i aua rā? Ngā tau whitu tekau, ko māmā rāua ko pāpā ngā kaiako. I Fraser koe

    We just get up, just sing. So it was just the upbringing. So there would have been the early '70s then.  What was Haka like back then? '70s, mum and dad tutoring, you at Fraser?

     

    Mōku i taua wā, ko ngā puoro i taua wā ko te 3.. 4 i kōrerohia, ko te rekereke rānei

    Well, you know, for me, the music at that time, it was either 3/4, da, da, da,

    da, da, da, like I said before, or it was reggae

    Te rekereke?

    Reggae?

    Te rekereke. Koirā anake te momo puoro ka whakarongo rā koe. Ka haere mai ana koe ki to mātou, mēnā kāore koe i te waiata, i te tito rānei, ko te rekereke anake te puoro ka whakarongo rā koe. I te mea i taua wā, i ora te iwi i ngā titonga a Bob Marley

    Reggae. That's the only music you listen to So when you came into our house, if you're not singing or you're not composing, the only other music you're listening to is reggae. Because at that time, Bob Marley's lyrics brought life to our people.

    Nā reira ka whakaohohia koutou e pāpā i te tahi i te ata

    So your dad woke you up at 1 in the morning?

    Mātou katoa.

     

    All of us. when he came up with the tune,

    composed something

    Nā reira ka whakaritea e ia te rangi, ka mahia mai he titonga, he aha te wāhi ki a koe i te whānau i te wāhi ki ngā titonga?

    when he came up with the tune, composed something,What was your role in the family with those compositions

    Taku keo, ko ahau te tangata reo niko.

    Ko māmā kei te waiata i te reo matua, ko ahau te reo tōiri. Kua kore i taea ināianei. Ko tā taku tungāne he patō nā te mea i ākona ia e pāpā ki te whakatangi pahū. Ko taku tungāne, he ingoa kounga tō taua momo reo, ka kīia he reo mārū i ēnei rā. O āe. Āe.  Pareiha me taku tuakana, ka noho ia ki kō

    Oh, my god, I used to be the part person So mum sing lead, and then I'm singing soprano. Can't do it now, though, but anyway, in those days, I was the soprano. My brother used to tap because my father taught him how to drum. And my brother was—there's a flash name. They call them baritone or something. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Fraeya And then my sister, she used to sit there.

     

    Āe. Kāo, engari ko Aunty Ringa he wāhi tōna.… he tūranga?

    Yeah. No, but Auntie Ringer had a-- But she had a role

    Ehara ia i taua momo tangata. Ko ia te tangata mahi kākahu. E pērā tonu ana ia ināianei

    Yes, she had a role. So she wasn't that person. 

    She was the kakahu person. Yeah. Which she still does today

    Rawe.

    Cool.

    Āe.

    Yeah

    E rua ngā kapa i ākona e ō mātua, ko wai aua tīma, ka mutu, nō tēhea tau?

    So mum and dad taught two teams. Who were those teams? And what year was that?

    E rua ngā kapa i Kahungunu. Ko tētahi ko The Rastas, koirā te ingoa i tapaina ai e pāpā ko ngā Rastas. Ka kī ia, “Ka whakatau au i tō koutou ingoa kia tae rā anō tātou ki te whakataetae.” I te mea i taua wā, i Kahungunu nei, he makawe rinorino ō ia tangata i te tīma, waihoki, katoa i rata ki a Bob Marley. Nā reira ka tapaina ki te ingoa The Rastas. Ko Waipatu, ko Matahiwi me Kohupātiki ngā marae kāinga. Tokorima nō tēnā marae me tēnā marae I Kahungunu. I aroha nui taku pāpā ki a Kahungunu. Koirā tana ngākau. Ko tērā atu kapa i kī katoa i ōna whanaunga nō Wairoa. 

     

     

    Nā reira e rua ana kapa i whakatūria. I taua wā ko te ingoa o Te Matatini ko te Polynesian Festival.

    1983. Nā reira i Waikato taku pāpā, ka kī mai, “Hoake tātou.” “Kei te haere tātou ki hea?” “Ki Wairoa.” “Ki hea?” “Ki Ramoto.” Ko tāku, “He aha kei reira?” Ko tāna, “He whenua taurikura.” Ka

    tae mātou ki Ramoto, ka kī au, “Kāore he paku aha i konei.” Ka kī ia, “He whenua taurikura tēnei.” Ka hoki au ki reira i ēnei rā. Kāore tonu he paku aha i reira. Engari i reira ōna whanaunga. 

    Kāore tētahi i pīrangi whakaako I ōna whanaunga. Nā reira ko tā pāpā “Māku aku whanaunga e ako.” Koirā hoki ngā kōrero mō The Rastas. Ā mohoa tonu nei, aua tāngata katoa, neke atu i te 60 tau te pakeke ināianei.

    Ko tā rātou, “Hei, ko koe te tamāhine a Heemi rāua ko Ngamoni, nē?” Ko tā rātou, “Nā tō pāpā

    mātou i ako ki tēnei (e waiata ana).” Ka waiatahia tonutia e rātou. Ko tāku, “Ah taputapu kē koe.”

     

    There were two teams in Kahungunu. One was called the Rastas. That's what dad called them, the Rastas. He said, I'll figure it out when we get to the competition, what your name's going to be. Because at that time here in Kahungunu, every single person in their team had red locks, and they were all into Bob Marley. So he called them the Rastas. They were actually based  in Waipatu, Matahiwi, Kohupatiki, and they were like four or five different ones from different marae here in Kahungunu. Because my father just loved Kahungunu. It was his heart. And the other team was all his cousins from Wairoa. So he had two teams, and he put them together.

     

    And at the time, Matatini was  called the Polynesian Festival, 1983. So dad used to be in Waikato, and he goes, come on, we're off. Where are we going? To Wairoa. Where? Te Raumoto. I said, what's there? And he goes, paradise. We get to Te Raumoto? I said, there's nothing here. And he goes, this is paradise. You know, I get back there today. There's still nothing there. But his cousins were there So he was the one-- nobody wanted to teach his cousins. So my dad said, I'll teach my cousins. Yeah, I'll teach my cousins. And then same with all the Rastas. You know, even today, all those fellows, they're about over 60 now. They go, hey, you hear me? And I'm one of these girls. And they go, you know, when your father taught us this. ' Anei rā ngā iwi e' And they still sing them. I said, oh, you're neat.

    Taputapu kē.

    You're neat

    Taputapu kē koe. 

    Āe. Heoi anō, 1983, te 23 o Pēpuere, i haere mātou i Waikato ki Kahungunu mō te whetiwara nui, anā, ka aituā taku pāpā. Ka mate taku pāpā. I paku kō atu i Cambridge. Kātahi ka kī mai taku māmā, “Mauria atu taku hoa rangatira ki Waikato i mua i te haerenga mai o Kahungunu.”

     

    Nā reira ka aro tonu te iwi ki te whetiwara. Mutu ana, i haramai ia tīma ki te poroporoaki i taku pāpā. I tuku ngā tīma katoa i aua tau rā i ā rātou tū ki taku pāpā. I nui rawa te manuhiri i tō mātou whare. He hononga piritata tō taku koro ki Te Atairangi Kaahu. Heoi anō, ka haramai a Aunty Ata ki te whare. Kotahi te pātai a taku māmā ki taku koro, i te mea e taitamariki tonu ana taku māmā, e 33 ōna tau. Ka kī atu, “Kotahi anake taku tono, anā, kia noho mai taku hoa rangatira ki konei he kore nōku e mōhio ki te taraiwa.”Nā reira ka kī a Te Atairangi Kaahu ki

    taku koroua “Mauria mai tō tama ki Taupiri, mā Waikato ia e manaaki.”

     

    Nā reira i nehua taku pāpā ki Waikato, ki te maunga. Nāna i kōwhiri te wāhi e takoto nei taku pāpā.

    Kātahi ia ka kī ki taku māmā me taku koroua, “Nā runga i ō mahi māku, e Wi, mauria mai tō tama ki Tūrangawaewae.” Nā reira ka haere mātou ki Tūrangawaewae, he mōhio nōna ka haere katoa mai te Polynesian Festival.  Ka haere mai ia pahi, ka karawhiu ngā pahi katoa i ā rātou hōtaka. Ka haere mai ngā pahi o te motu. He ātaahua. Nā reira i taua wā, ā, mō te 37 tau i whai ake, kua tae atu ahau ki te Koroneihana. Ka tū noa, ka noho noa, ka āwhina mēnā e taea ana te pērā. 

     

    He wā ōna ka tukuna aku tamariki ki te kīhini. Nē, “O Whaea ka kuhu mātou ki te kīhini.” Koirā taku aroha ki te kī atu, “Tēnā koutou, Waikato, i tā koutou manaaki i taku pāpā.” Āe.

    Yeah, but anyway, 1983, February the 23rd, we traveled from  Waikato to Kahungunu the big festival. And my dad had an accident. My dad passed away. And was just outside of Cambridge. And then my mom said, take my husband to Waikato before Kahungunu comes.

     

     

     

    Yeah, so everyone carried on with the festival. Every single team after that festival came to farewell my dad. Every single team in those years performed to my dad. The manuhiri got a bit too big for our whare. My koro had a very close relationship with Te Ataarangi Kahu. Anyway, Auntie Ataarangi, she came to the house. And my mom asked my koro one thing because my mom was young, Thirty Three And she just said, all I ask is my husband stay here with me, because I can't drive. So Te Ataarangi Kahu said to my koro, bring your son to Taupiri, and Waikato will look after him.

     

     

     

     

    So my dad's buried in Waikato, just up the hill a bit. So she chose where my dad was going to go. And then she said to my mom and my koro, for the work that you've done for me, we bring your boy to Turangawaewae. So we went to Turangawaewae, because she knew the whole of the Polynesian Festival was coming. And every bus came in, and every bus performed their whole bracket. Every bus came in from the whole of the motu. It was stunning So since then, for 37 years, I've been going to the koroneihana, and just to stand there, just to sit there, help wherever I can. 

     

     

     

     

     

    Sometimes now I put my kids into the kitchen, and say, oh, whaea, we'll come in the kitchen. And that's just my aroha to say, thank you, Waikato, for looking after my father. Yeah,

    He rawe tēnā, tā te kuīni Māori kuhu atu me te manaaki atu i tō pāpā. Ki runga o Taupiri

    Well, that's awesome, eh, for the Maori queen to come in and look after your dad

    I whai wāhi taku tipuna koroua ki te whakawahinga o Te Atairangikaahu

    My grandfather, we, he was part of the crowning of Te Ataarangikahu

    Wehi nā

    Its scary

    Ka mate taku pāpā, ka hoki tonu taku koroua ki Waikato. Ko tāna mai, “Kei te pai koe? Kei te pīrangi kuhu mai?” Ko tāku, “Kāo, kāo, e koro, ka hoki au ki te kīhini ki te āwhina i te whānau” Ko tāna, “O.” Ka uru atu ahau, i taua wā i te ora tonu a Bill Tini. Aunty Arini Tini. Te whānau Raumati. I te kīhini tonu rātou i taua wā. Āe. 

    Nā rātou te kīhini i whakahaere i ia kuhutanga atu. Ka kuhu atu tēnei kōtiro nohinohi. Ko tā rātou, “O, anei e haere mai nei. Anei te mokopuna a Wi. Ka haere mai i ia tau.” Ko tā Koro, “Haere mai koe ka kai tahi ai ki a māua ko Te Atairangikaahu.” Ko tāku, “Kāo, ka kai tahi ahau ki te iwi, ka āwhina noa atu.” Nā reira ko tāku noa he tatari. Nā taku māmā mātou i āki ki te whai i ō mātou raihana. Nāwai, 

    ko ahau te kaitaraiwa a taku koroua

    And then after my father died, Koro would still--go back to Waikato. He'd say to me, you all right? You want to come in here? And I said, no, no, Koro, I'll just go in the kitchen and help the whanau. He goes, oh, and you know when I used to go in, at that time, there was Bill Tinney was around, Aunty Arani Tinney, the raumatis, they were all around in the kitchen then. Yeah, they used to actually run the kitchen. And every time I used to go in, There'd be this little girl coming. And I'd go, oh, here she comes, here comes Wīs moko. She always comes in every year. me and Te Ataarangikahu?, I said, no, I'll just live with the people. I'll just help. So I just used to wait, because Mum made us get our license. And then I became my Koro's driver.

    Raihana pepa?

    Paper license

    Āe. Āe. Raihana pepa. Āe. He kāri iti noa iho. Ināianei, e toru kē ngā tūāoma

    Yeah. Yeah, paper license. Yeah, just one little card now. Got to go through three stages

    Nā reira he kairakuraku rongonui a Koro Hemi?

    So Koro Hemi was are nowned guitarist?

    Āe

    Yep

    Āe. Tērā ētahi maharatanga mōna e whakatangi ana i te rakuraku mā te hia kē nei tāngata i muri i te ārai i te atamira

    Yep. There were memories of him strumming the guitar up for however many people, standing at the back of the curtain and on the stage

    Āe, ko tana kōrero, “Nōu ka whakatangi mai, patua ngā aho katoa, ia aho.” I taua wā i te noho mai ki tō mātou a Irirangi Tiakiawa. I karangahia ia ko Uncle Iri. Kāore au i mōhio ka rongonui ia ā tōna wā. Ko Uncle noa iho ia. 

     

     

    Ko Sonny Kepa hoki tētahi i noho mai ki tō mātou. I noho mai, i noho ki te tēpu. Ko tā rātou, “Hei parata, parata, me pēnei tātou.” Ko tā Uncle Sonny, “Hei, kāo e tama, kia pēnei kē.” Kātahi a Uncle Iri ka kī, “Hei, hei aha tāu, Tūhoe.” Ko tāna, “O, hoihoi Te Arawa.” 

    Āe. Engari koirā ngā momo kōrero. Ka kī tēra atu, “E ai ki a Kahungunu, me mahi tahi.” 

     

     

    Nā reira ko Uncle Sonny Kepa ka aro ki te reo, i aua rā. Nā taku pāpā ngā āhuatanga puoro, anā, ko Uncle Iri ka tiki atu i te patu. Ka tīkina he pārekereke, ka karawhiua i waho. Ko ahau kei te whakaaro, “Kei te aha kē ia?”

     

    He used to say, the best thing about it, when you play, make sure you hit every single string, every single string. And at that time, at Stonemata, at that time before that happened, was Iri Rangitiakeawa. We just used to call him Uncle Iri. I knew he was going to come famous later. But you know, that was just Uncle. 

     

    Sonny Kepa, he was another one that lived with us. So they still live. And they still be at the table. Composing. They go, hey, brother, brother, we do this. You know, and then Uncle Sonny would say, hey, no, boy, we do it like this. And then Uncle Iri will say, “hey, Never mind your's Tūhoe" and he goes, "oh, keep quite Te Arawa" Yeah, but that was the conversation. Yeah. And then the other one would go, Well Kahungunu would say, he's what you do, together. Yeah. 

     

    So then we used to have Uncle Sonny Kepa actually doing the reo at those days. My dad was doing the music. And Uncle Iri used to just pick up patu, used to pick up a jandal and swing it around outside. And he's going, what's he up to?

     

    Āe, rawe

    Yeah, mean.

    Koirā te wā i piri atu ai taku tungāne, a Pareiha ki a ia

    And then that's when my brother, my younger brother, Prea, he got attached to it

    Ka whai haere i a ia

    And he used to follow him.

    Āe. I whai atu ia. Ko tā Uncle Iri he piki ki ngā rākau. I kō ētahi. He taiohi nōu ka teitei ake. Nā reira ka peke ia, kāore au i mōhio he ingoa Māori ō aua mahi. Ka kīia i ēnei rā he peruperu. Āe. Tūwaewae. Aua mea katoa. Kua whai ingoa. Nō mai mai ērā. Nā ngā tīpuna i whakarite mai. Ā mohoa nei, kei ngā kura. Ko tō mātou whakapakeketanga tērā.

    Yeah, he followed him. And then Uncle Iri just used to be, jump over our trees. You know, some were there. And you know, because you're young, got a bit higher, so he jumped. And then I didn't know they had Maori names to it. Nowadays, they call them Peruperu Yeah, tuwaiwai. Yeah. All those kind of things. You've got names to them. So they've been here way before. Our tupuna set those. Nowadays, they're in schools. But it was upbringing, you see

    Āe.

    Yeah

    Ko te reo te wāhi ki a Uncle Sonny Kepa. Ko tā taku māmā he tunu. Ka tonoa ana ia ki te waiata, ka kuhu mai ia.  I tunu noa iho ia. Ka kuhu mai, āe. Ka mahia te mahi. Ka puta anō. I tino whai wāhi ia ki te kapa nōna ka kī ki taku pāpā, “Kāo, kāo, me pēnei kē te poi, e tama.” Koinei te tū. Āe

    Yeah. You know, because Sonny Kepa, he used to do the reo. My mum just used to cook. And when they wanted her to sing, then my mum would come in. Yeah. Yeah, she's just cook, come in. Yeah, do her bit. Go out. Yeah. So she really got involved with the kapa. And she said to my dad, no no, this is how the poi goes, boy. This is the stance. Yeah. 

     

    Nā reira he aha te awenga o Koro Wi ki tō ao haka?

    So what influence did your koro Wi have on you in your te ao haka world?

    Nō taku pāpā ka takoto ki Taupiri, i uaua ki taku koro te hoki mai ki Kahungunu, he taitamariki nōna. Ka hipa te rua tau, ka hoki mai ia ki Kahungunu. Ka kī ia ki taku māmā, “Ngāmoni, kua tae te wā e hoki ai ahau ki te kāinga.” Ka kī ia, “Ka pai, e Wi.” Koirā ā rāua momo kōrero.” Ka hoki mai a Koro ki Kahungunu. Kotahi wiki i muri mai, ka waea ia ki taku māmā, ka kī atu, “Ngamoni, tukua mai

    tētahi o ō tamariki hei whakamaharatanga ki taku tama.” Ko tāna, “E Wi, e kore au e tuku I aku tama, engari ka tukua ki a koe tētahi o aku kōtiro.” Nā reira anei ahau. 37 tau kua taha.

     

    Ooh. So it was-- when my  father laid at Taupiri, it was hard for my koro to come back to Kahungunu because he was only young. After two years, he came back to Kahungunu. He said to my mum, Ngamoni, it's time for me to go home. And she said, OK, Wi. So that's how they used to acknowledge each other. Koro came back to Kahungunu. One week later, he rings my mum. And he said, Ngamoni, I need one of your children to come to remind me of my boy. And she said, we, you're not having my boys, but you can have one of my girls. So here I am, 37 years later.

     

    I pēhea te pakeke ake me tō koro?

    What was that like, going up in your koro?

    I uaua i te tīmatanga. I te mea ko ahau he kōtiro piri ki taku māmā.

    Āe. He kōtiro piri ki taku māmā. I pakeke ake taku tuakana ki konei i mua i a au.

    Āe. Kātahi ka hoki ia ki te kāinga. Āe. Nā reira I uaua ki a au. Ka ako au i taku koro, ko ahau te kaitaraiwa. Ka whakakā ahau i te reo irirangi. Ko tāku i rongo ai ko (Io Nui, Io Roa, Io Te Mataaho). Koirā aku haerenga i te waka.

     

    Haere ai au me taku koro ki ngā wāhi katoa, ko tāna, “Haramai. Ka haramai koe ki taku taha.”

    Nā reira i pērā. Ka tohia a mea tamaiti, ka mārenatia a mea whānau, ka nehua a mea whānau, ka iriiritia a mea pēpi, ka whakatuwheratia a mea marae. Āe. Nāna te nuinga o ngā marae i whakatuwhera, puta noa pea i te motu. Āe. Kahungunu. Waikato. 

     

    Koirā taku whakapakeketanga. Ko tāna, “O kei te pai koe” “Āe.” Ko tāna, “Ka pai. Kei te nui te penehīni?” Ko tāku, ‘Āe, mā Io tāua e kawe, e koro.” Ko tāna, “Ka pai, ko te mea nui me io, kaua ko I O.”

    Koirā ngā momo puoro a māua ko koro. 

    Ka kī ia, “O, ka pai, āe.” Kua kōrero mai ia mō āna titoranga. 

    Ka hipa au, ka pātai atu ki a Koro, “Koro, he aha te takenga o Tūtira?” Ko tāna “I hui au ki taku whānau ki Ramoto.” Ko tāku, “O āe.” Ko tāna, “Kia kotahi atu ahau ki ngā kōrero.” Ko tāku, “Ka pai.” Ka kī ia, “I te hokitanga ki te kāinga, ka raru taku waka ki Lake Tūtira.”

     

     Nōku ka pērā, ka whakaaro ahau, ‘Me pēhea e whakakotahi anō ai i taku whānau?’ “Kia tapatahi, kia kotahi rā.”

    Nā reira koirā te takenga mai o Tūtira. Ko tāna i aro ai ko koe, ko au, ko kōrua, ko tāua. Ināianei kua māua, ko.. nō hea kē tēnei? I ahatia a kōrua? Āe. Āe. Āe. Nā reira kua kite au kua huri hoki te reo. I ngā rā o mua, ko te reo ko te kapa. 

     

     

    Ko te reo ko te puoro. Ināianei kua kounga. Āe. Kua whai Panekire me taua kaupapa rā i konei me te pouaka whakaata ki kō me Te Karere ki konei, he mea pai tērā. Ka kite koe i te kokenga me te whakawhanaketanga o te tangata. Te takenganme te ahunga, me kī. I te mea kei konei tonu rātou.

     

    A bit hard in the beginning because I was like, mummy's girl. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was mummy's girl because my sister was brought up here before me. Yeah. But then she came home. So it was a bit hard for me. But when I did come, well, you know, then I learned from koro. I became the driver. So you know, once they put the radio on, all I heard is--SINGING IN MAORI] So that was my car ride.nSo I went with koro everywhere. And he says, come on. You come with me.  

     

    So I went with koro everywhere. You know, he blessed this child. He married that family. He buried that whanau. He christened that baby. He opened that marae. So he opened the majority of marae, probably throughout the whole of the moti too. Kahungunu, Waikato. 

     

     

     

     

    So that was my upbringing. And he goes, oh, you kei te pai? Yep. And he goes, right. We got enough gas? And I go, yep. Iho will get us the koro. And he goes, well, just as long as it's Iho and not i-o. So that was mine and koro's music. Yep. He said, all right, yes. Because I-- and then he's telling me stories about how he did his composition. Yeah. So you know, I go past and I go to koro. Koro, how did that tutira come about? And he goes, well, I had a hui of my family in Ramoto. I said, oh, yeah. He said, you know, I'd cut the chase. I'll just go straight there. I said, OK. And he said, but anyway, on the way back, I broke down. Like tutira. 

     

     

    I said, And he said, when I broke down there, and I says, how can I bring my family back together? Kea tapa tahi, kea kotahi ra. So that's how tutira came about. That's how tutira mai came about. You know, his was about ko koe, ko au, ko kōrua, ko tāua. Now it's got like Maua Ko. When did they come along? What happened to Korua? Yeah, yeah. So I find the reo's changed too. Because in our days, the reo was kapa. 

     

    The reo was music. Now they've gone flash. Yeah. They go, look, it's panekire, and all that thing happening here, and TV going there, and Te Karere Which is good, because you can see the progression and the development of where people have come from and to where they're going, or where they're going to, I should say. Because they ain't going anywhere

     

    Nō hea ana rangi?

    How did he come up with his tunes?

    Ko tāna he patō i tana wae.… ka hāereere haere. Ka tirohia te whenua, anā, ka “(e waiata ana).” I titiro ia ki ngā maunga me te āhua o ngā maunga. He rite tonu tana titiro ki te awa, kātahi ka, “(e waiata ana).” I te mea he whakapapa ōna. I aro nui ia ki te whakapapa. Āe. Ka, “(e waiata ana).” Nā, ki te titiro koe ki Wairoa, ka pēnei te āhua, karekare ana. Koirā i hua ake ai te (e waiata ana), engari ki te titiro koe ki Waikato, (e waiata ana). Ka titiro ia ki aua āhuatanga.

     

    He must have been tapping his folks. He used to travel all around. Look at the whenua. He used to go, oh. He used to look at the mountains, the shape of the maunga. He used to always look at the awa. He used to go, wai roho pu pu ho ho, nenge nenge ma tangi ra. Because he could whakapapa in. For him, it was all about whakapapa. Yeah. He goes, oh. He piko he taniwha. So if you look at Wairoa, awa goes like this, a bit rough.

    Mm. He rawe tērā, nē.

     

    Āe. Koirā ngā momo i torona ai e taku hoa rangatira, nē. Ka kī mai ia ko mātou tana whenua, hau, me te ahi. Āe. I te mea e kōrero ana mō ngā āhuatanga. Āe. I karapotia ia e te taiao. Koirā tā taku koro i kite ai. Ka hoki mai ia, ka, “(e waiata ana.)”. Toru karaka i ia ata, ka oho taku pāpā, ka takina tana whakapapa. Ka whakahua i ngā ingoa o āna tamariki katoa me ō rātou hoa, ngā mokopuna katoa. Āe. Ka tatari au ki taku ingoa, “Kia mateoha te whakahua. Kia kaha, e hoa.”

    Yeah, because I think my husband, that's where he adopted it from, you see? Because he started calling us his earth, wind, and fire. Yeah, because it was about the elements. It was his surrounding. It was his environment. It's something that my koro saw. Yeah. And he'll come back and go, oh. 3 o'clock every morning, my koro would get up. And he'll do his whakapapa. He'll name all his kids, all their wives and their husbands, all the mokos. Yeah, 3 o'clock every morning, never miss. Never miss. Yeah, I used to wait for my name. Say it with love, koro. Say it with love. Get up, my friend.

    He tū motuhake tāna? He tū ā-Kahungunu nei? E kōrero ana au mō ngā tū ā-haka.Te tū a Kahungunu, a Waipatu rānei? Māna? 

    Did he have a particular stance, a kahungunu stance? When we-- you know how we do haka stances? Yeah. Tu, Te tu ā Kahungunu, or Te tu ā Waipatu, or?

    Nōku ka kī atu ki taku koroua, “O, Koro.” Nā te mea i kapa haka au ki Waikato, ki Te Arawa, ka pātai au ki a koro, “Koro, he aha te tū o konei?”

    Ko tāna, “Koinei tāku e mōhio nei. Kahungunu whakaparatī, whakaparatī. 

    Nā reira ka haka ana koe, me tū tika. Kaua e piko. Me mārō. Te ure o Kahungunu whakaparatī, whakaparatī.” Ko tāku, “Ka pēhea te wiri, e koro?” Ko tāna, “Kia pēnei te wiri, me rite ki ngā tāne. Me tōtika ngā matimati. Kia piri ngā matimati. Kia kotahi te whānau.” Koirā te take i pērā ai te wiri. Kāore e kapu te āhua. Kāore e pēnei. Kāore e pēnā. Tē aro i a au he aha tēnā, heoi anō. Nā te mea me tōtika. Me piri te whānau.

     

    when I said to my koro, oh, koro. You know, because I've always done kapa haka in Waikato. Then I do kapa haka in Te Arawa. And I said to koro, koro, what's the stance here? And he says, well, this is what I know. Kahungunu. Whakaparati, whakaparati. So when you haka, you're upright. Upright like that. Don't bend down. We're kahungunu. Stand upright. Yes. Stiff as. Te uri o Kahungunu. Whakaparati, Whakaparati. But what he did say, he said, what about the wiri koro? And he says to me, the wiri is like this, straight. Make sure that you're the same as the men. Straight like that. Fingers like that. Keep the fingers together. Keep the whanau together. Yeah. That's why we're wiri like that. We don't cup. We don't do this. We don't do that. Straight up. But anyway, just straight up and down. Keep the family together. 

     

    Me ngā tāne hoki?

    Men as well?

    Me ngā tāne hoki.

    Men as well

    Wehi nā.

     

    Kia piri te whānau. Kia tōtika. Me he karetao mātou. Ko tāna “Me rite ki te karetao,” ka kī ia, “Ki te kī mai te tangata he karetao tātou, me mahara koe, Kahungunu whakaparatī, whakaparatī.”

     

    Keep the family together. So straight. We were always robotic. And he said, we're robotic. He said, you know when people say we look like robots? He said, you must remember. Kahungunu, whakaparati, whakaparati.

    He karetao.

    Was a robot

    Kāo, he mārō.

    No, stiff

    Rawe. Nā reira ko Koro Wi tēnā me tana tū. He aha te awenga o tō tipuna koroua ki te ao haka o konei? O Paraire?

    Cool. So we had Koro Wi in his stance. What influence did your great grandfather have on te ao haka around here, Paraire?

     

    Paraire Tomoana, tau ana te tū. Tae ana ki ngā waiata (e waiata ana). He karetao tonu, engari ka kounga haere, ka piu haere, engari he piu tau nei. I pērā. Ehara i te piu a Te Tai Rāwhiti. Tino kore nei. Kāore i puta i te kēti, i noho ki te kēti, e keo. Kia piri tonu te whānau. Āe. 

    Nā reira koirā te wāhi ki a Paraire, (e waiata ana). Ko tāna, “Ka waiata ana koe, kia mateoha te waiatatia. I titoa tērā mō taku hoa rangatira.” 

    Paraire Tomoana, his was very graceful. And we were the singing. [SINGING] Still the same robotic, but we started putting a bit of flash and putting a bit of swing in. But a graceful swing. Yeah. Not a Tairawhiti swing?, Was it like that. Not out the gate like that. No, we stayed in the gate. My girl kept the whanau together. So Paraire, yeah. So he gave that. [SINGING] And he said, when you sing it, sing it with love. Because I wrote it for my wife.

     

    Mm. Nā reira ki te whakapiri koe i aua tū e rua me aua pūkenga rā, ka hua ake te tū a Kahungunu ake? Mai i a Wi Te Tau rāua ko Paraire Tomoana?

     

    So you have those two types of haka, stances, expertisecoming together. And then you get the stance of Kahangunu.Yeah. 

    From Witetau and Parare Tomoana

    Koia.

    Yep

    He mīharo tēnā, nē?

    It's awesome, eh?

    Āe. Ka mutu pea. Ka kī hoki au ki te tangata, “Ko te taha tikanga, kawa me te karakia nā te taha Huata.”

    Anā, “Ko ngā mahi puoro me te tito waiata, nā te taha Tomoana.” Engari te haka, nā tō mātou māmā tērā. Ko ia tō mātou māmā. Ko ia tō mātou pāpā. Ko tō mātou māmā tērā.

     

    Yeah. It's pretty cool. Yeah, because I say to people too, I say, you know, our tikanga, our kawa, and our karakia comes from our huata side. And I said, our music, our composing, that comes from our Timoana side. But our haka, that's our mother. that's our mother. She's our mother. She's our father. That's our mother

    Nā reira he aha te awenga? Arā te taha Huata, te taha Tomoana, te taha o Nana Monchi. He tūmatarau, Kurangaituku?

     

    Yeah, what influence was that then? You've got the huata side, the Timoana side, then you've got Nana Monge's side. Well, you know, magic happened. Kurangaituku.

     

    E mea ana koe. Ko Kurangaituku. Nā, mōku, ka hoki au ki Tūhourangi. Āe. 

    Mōku, ehara mātou i te kapa, he hapū kē. Ko mātou tērā. I waimarie mātou i pērā tō mātou whakapakeketanga mai.

    Yeah, kurangaituku is right. [LAUGHTER] But you know, yeah, but so me, I go back to Tūhourangi. Yep. For me, we're not a kapa. We are hapu. Yeah, that's what we are. We're just taki that we're brought up like that. 

     

    Nā Mauriora Kingi hoki koe i whakaawe?

     Yeah, and you had the influences of Mauri Ora Kingi.

    Āe. I te wā i a mātou, i whai wāhi mātou ki a Uncle Sonny Kepa, ki a Uncle Iri. Kātahi ka waihape atu a māmā ki Rotorua, anā ka huri ki a Te Kepa Marsh rāua ko Mauriora Kingi. Āe, nā te mea i mate tōmua taku pāpā, i noho te tokorua rā hei iho pūmanawa mō aku tungāne. Nā reira e 15 ngā tau o taku tungāne, nā rāua ia i tango i te kura, ko taku tungāne tērā, ko Tūhoe. 

    Ko ia te kaiwhakairo a te iwi. Ko ia te kaitiaki i ā mātou taonga katoa, ngā taiaha mau rākau. Āe. He whare taonga tōna.

     

    Yeah, so in our days, there was-- so there's Uncle Sunny Kepa. There was Irirangi-- oh, Uncle Iri. And then there was--then when my mum moved back to Rotorua, then it became Kepa Marsh and Mauri Ora Kingi.And because our dad died at a young age,those two became a very strong father figure for my brothers. So they actually pulled my brother out of school at the age of 15, my brother Tuhoe. Wow. And he became the carver of our people. Yeah. So he's actually like the holder and the caretaker of all our Taonga, all our Taiaha's, all the Maurakas. Yep. Boyfriends got his own museum

    He aha ō rāua āhua? Ō Mauriora rāua ko Te Kepa?

    What were they like, Maori Ora and Te Kepa? 

     

    O, kāore e taea te makarauna nē. Ko taua āhua tonu rā, koirā te whakapakeketanga, ko tā rātou parāoa me te pata tērā. Ka noho koe ki te tēpu, ka whakarongo kau atu ki a rāua. Āe.

    Ka inumia e rāua te inu whakamāia. Ka whakarongo noa koe ki ā rāua kōrero, rawe ngā kōrero. Nā te mea he motuhenga. 

     

    Koirā ngā momo kōrero i aua rā. Āe. “Anei, parata, Tarawera.” “E kāo, parata.” Āe. Koirā ā rāua kōrero. Waihoki, i kaha rāua ki te whakaū i tā Tūhourangi mau ki te tū. I te mea i ahu mai tā mātou tū i ngā ngāwhā. Ko tāna, “O ka waiata anake mātou mō mātou anō.

     

    Ka kōrero mō ngā ngāwhā me te take e pērā ana tēnā puna me tēnā puna. Ko tātou te kapa o te takiwā. ” Āe. Koirā tā te tokorua rā, anā, ka ākona e rāua taku tungāne.  Āe. Ka mutu pea. Nā rāua ia i ako. Ko ia tā rāua kaitaraiwa. Nā reira ko māua ko taku koro, ko taku tungāne, ko Tūhoe rātou ko Te Kepa, ko Mauriora, ko ia tā rāua kaitaraiwa. 

     

    Nā reira i ako ia i aua mea katoa. “Haria māua ki kō, e tama. Kia rite māua kua waea atu ki a koe.” “Ka pai.” Anā, ka tukuna ngā whakapapa ki a ia. Kei te pērā tonu ia ā mohoa nei. Āe, taku tungāne.  Āe. Ka noho atu, ka patō. Āe.

     

    Oh, well, you know, you can't muck around with that. Same thing, upbringing. That's their bread and butter. You just sit at the table and you just listen to them. Yeah. Yeah. They have a bit of courage, juice. You just listen to their kōrero, but neat kōrero, because it's real. Because that was the conversation in those days. 

     

     

    You know, this, oh, brother,  you know, tarawera, oh, no, no, brother. Yeah. So that was their kōrero. And then they made sure that we as Tuhourangi maintained our stance. Yeah. Because our stance comes from all the ngawha's Yeah. He goes, oh, when he's thinking about ourselves, you know,

     

     

     talk about all the ngawha's Talk about why that pool's like that, and why that pool's like that. Why are we the Rikokapa? Yeah. So that's what those two brought, and they trained my brother. Yeah. Yeah, they trained him. He became the driver. So I went from me and my koro, and my brother Tuhoi went to Te Kepo Mauriora, and he became their driver. 

     

    So he learnt all of those. Drop us off there, boy. We'll ring you when we're ready. OK. And then they'll just give him whakapapa. He still does that today. Yeah. Yeah, my brother. Yes, it's their taps, yeah

     

    Nā reira ko aua iho pūmanawa katoa o te ao haka ka kotahi mai, ana, ka whakaako kōrua ko tō tungāne ki Kahungunu nei, kia kōrerohia tērā ināianei. Kia kōrero tāua mō tā kōrua ko tō tungāne tū ki mua i ō tamariki me te whakaako atu.

    So using all of those ihopu manawa and te ao haka, and then coming together,and then you and your brother teaching here in Kahungunu, talk about that part now. Let's get into you and your brother standing in front of your kids, teaching them

    I roa au i konei. I tonoa a Tūhoe kia haere mai i Te Arawa ki Kahungunu ki te whakaako i ngā mahi whakairo. Nā reira koirā i haramai ai taku tungāne. 

    Ka haramai taku tungāne, ka hūnuku mai ki tōku whare, ka pātai mai, “Tuahine, he aha ō mahi?” Ko tāku, “He whakaako kapa haka noa iho. Koirā tāku i pīrangi ai hei mahi māku. Kei te pīrangi au ki te whakaako kapa haka” Ko tāna, “O, ko hea te wāhi e whakaako kapa haka ana koe?” I taua wā i te whakaako au ki Hastings Boys and Girls, Iona College, Havelock College, Flaxmere, Te Aute, Hukarere. 

     

    Ko tāna, “E ono ērā kura.” Ko tāku, “Āe.” Ka haere atu ahau ki mea kura i te 9, ki mea kura i te 10, ki mea kura i te 11, ki mea kura i te 12, anā, hei te toru karaka kua tangi mai te pere. Kua mutu ngā mahi mō te rā.” Ka kī atu au, "Kei te hia hono mai koe? Me whai tāne ahau.” Ko tāna, “I nē?” Ko tāku, “Ko ahau kei te whakaako i ngā tama ki te haka, me ngā kōtiro ki te poi” Ka kī mai ia, “Ka pai.” 

     

     

    Nā reira ka haere tahi mai taku tungāne, ko māua tēnā. Ka tomo māua ko taku tungāne, ko Tūhoe ki te kura. Ka titiro ia, nā te mea kua haere mai i Te Arawa, āe, i tō māua iwi, i tō māua hapū, me kī.

    Ka kite ia i te momo tū. Ko tāku, “Pēhea ō whakaaro?” Ko tāna, “Me whakapiki tāua i te taumata o te iwi.” Ka kī au, “Ana, kia pērā tāua. Me tīmata ki ngā tamariki. Arā, i mōhio au koirā tō haramai. I te mahue i a au tētahi āhuatanga..” Ka kī mai ia, “Āe.” 

     

     

    I taua wā, nā māua ko Tūhoe ngā kura katoa I Heretaunga i ako. E rua anō ngā whānau, ko Keita Tuhi me tana hoa rangatira, me John Matthews e whakaako ana ki Ahuriri. Kāore māua i mōhio he whakataetae i konei. I pīrangi noa māua kia whakatūria ngā tamariki ki mua ki tētahi whakaminenga, ka karawhiua ai mō te hemo tonu atu. 

    Nāwai, ka puta tētahi whakataetae. O, ka pai. Ka whakatūngia rātou.

    Koirā tētahi mea hei ako mā māua ko taku tungāne, nē, te whakataetae. Ehara māua i te tāngata whakataetae. Kāore māua i pakeke pērā mai.

     

    So I was here for a while. Tuhoi was asked if he could come from Te Arawa to Kahungunu to teach them whakairo. So that's how my brother came. And when my brother came here, he came to live with me, and he said, sis, what do you do? And I was, OK. Oh, I just teach kapahaka. That's all I want to do. I just want to teach kapahaka. And he goes, oh, you teach kapahaka. So at the time, I was teaching Hastings Boys and Girls, Iona College, Havelock College, Braxtree, Te Aute, Hukarere. 

     

     

     

     

    And he goes, that's about six schools. And I go, yeah. So I just go there at 9, then I go there at 10, then I go there at 11, then I go there at 12. By 3 o'clock, ding dong, move along, bell's gone. That's us for the day. And I said, do you want to join me? Because I need a bit of a meal. He said, do you? And it's because I'm teaching the boys the haka. And then I'm teaching the girls the poi. And he goes, OK. OK, 

     

     

    so my brother came with me. And at the time, it was me and my brother. When my brother Tuhoe walked into the kura, he looked, because he's come from Te Arawa, from our people, from our hapu, I should say. And he saw the different kind of styles. And then I says, what do you think? And he says,I think we need to uplift the standard of our people. I said, well, come on, then let's go. 

    We'll start with the kids. See, I knew that's why you were coming in. I knew you were here, so I knew I was missing something. He says, yep. 

     

    So me and Tuhoi at those times, we taught all the kura in Heretaunga. And there was two other whanau, which was Kate Tatuhi and her husband, John Matthews. They taught ahuriri.So every time we'd go there, there was a competition here. We just want to get the kids up to stand in front of a crowd and knock yourself out. Just get up and perform. And then this competition came. Oh, OK. I would just put them on. But I think that's the thing that me and my brother have to learn these days is how to be competitive. Because that's not who we are. Because it's an upbringing. 

     

    He aha te tikanga o tērā o te āhuatanga whakataetae? 

    What does that mean, though, how to be competitive?

    Tērā ētahi kura e whai ana kia whakaihuwaka. Āe. Ka pērā hoki ō māua ko Tūhoe whakaaroengari nō hea tērā whakaaro e puta ā-waha nei ki ngā tamariki. Āe. Ka kī noa atu, “E tū, whakaorangia mai ā māua titonga me ā māua I whakaako atu ai ki a koutou, ngā papa i tae ora mai ai koutou ki konei, ka kite ai he aha te hua ka puta.” Ki te kī te tangata he ngoikore koe, me kī atu ‘kia ora,’ waihoki, ki te kī te tangata he pai koe, me kī, ‘kia ora.’ Āe. Koirā te ao.

     

    Because I think there's some kura out there, they're going for the win. Me and Tuhoe, well, we think about going for the win, but we don't encourage that aowaha to our kids. We just say, just get up, make your compositions come alive, bake all our material that we taught you and the sacrifices that you did to get here come alive, and see where it gets you. If people say you're dumb, you go kia ora. And if people say you're good, you go kia ora. Yeah. So that's the life.

     

    Kāo, he rawe tēnā. Nā reira kei Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga kōrua. He kapa tā kōrua ki reira, i kuraina ō tamariki ki reira, ō tamāhine. Kia kōrerohia tērā. I pēhea te whakaako i ō tamāhine? 

     

    No, that's cool. So with you, so you guys are at Te Kura Kaupapa Maori o Ngati Kahungunu ki Heretaunga. You have your kapa there, your tamariki went through there, your girls. Let's talk about that. How was it teaching your girls? How did we get there?

    He aha te taenga ki reira? I hangaia e Kahungunu tētahi kura hou. I hangaia he kura hou, ana, ka tono mai rātou ki a māua. Nā Tūhoe te whare i hanga. Ko ia te pane o te hanga i te whare, nāna hoki ngā whakairo katoa. 

     

    I haere māua ko taku māmā ki te mahi I ngā mahi tukutuku me rātou. Ka whakaako ia i ētahi kōrero mō ngā tauira kōwhaiwhai mō te whare. Kātahi ka tīmata tā rātou whatu korowai i mua tonu i a māua. I te titiro māua ko māmā, kātahi ka, “Oi, haere ki kō.” “O, ka pai.” Āe. Nā reira ka kī atu māua, “O, kei te hia āwhina?” 

     

    Nā reira mutu ana te hanga i te kura, ka tae ki te wā o te whakatuwheratanga, ka whakapā mai rātou ki a mātou. Ko tā rātou, “Hei, he Huata kōrua, me haere mai ki konei.” Ko tā māua, “Ka pai.” I taua wā ka kōrero hāngai atu ahau, “Kāore i te tino kounga taku reo, kia pono taku kōrero atu.” Ko tā rātou, “Ehara te reo i te aronga matua.” Tuatahi, he Huata koe, tuarua, kei te mōhio mātou ki ō kōrua pūkenga.” Ākona te reo i ō kokenga. Āe. Nā reira koirā tō māua kuhunga ki te kura.

     

    Kahungunu built a new kura. They bought a new kura, and our involvement there, they came to get us, so Tihoi actually built the whare. He was the lead of building the whare, and he did all the whakairo. 

     

     

    Me and my mum went to do all the tukutuku work with them. He taught them all about that, and the kōwhaiwhai patterns for the whare. Then they started to make korowais in front of us. Me and mum were looking, and we go, oi, get over there. Oh, OK. Yeah, so oh, do you need a bit of a hand? 

     

     

     

     

    And so when they finished building the school and when it was time to open it up, they came to us. They said, hey, you're Huata's. You need to come here. We said, oh, OK. At that time, I just said straight to them. I said, well, you know, my reo's not sharp, and I'll just tell you that straight. And they said, it's not about the reo. No. No. One, you're Huata. Two, we know what you fellas can bring. You just learn the reo as you go on. Yeah. So that's how we got to the kura

    I pēhea tērā, te whakaako i tāu anō kapa? Nō hea tō whakaako i tō kapa o reira? Tokohia ngā tamariki?

     

    So what was it like teaching your kapa? How did you start teaching your kapa then? Did you have many kids?

     

    I te wā i tūtaki tuatahi atu, ka tukuna rātou ki te papa. “Okei. E tama, kei te kura hē tāua.”  Ko tāna, “Heoi anō, me whakamātau. Āe.” I taua wā, i pai te iwi ki a Te Aute me Hukarere, I te mea kua roa e tū ana. Āe. Ehara i te mea i aro māua ki te rongo me te roa e tū ana. I aro kē ki tā māua i hoatu ai me tā rātou i kapo ai. Ka nanaohia rānei, ka kore rānei. Ki te kore, haere tonu. Māmā noa iho. Ko te āhua o ō māua whakaaro, me ū, me puta rānei. Ko māua ko taku tungāne tērā. Ki te kore

    koe e ū, ehara tēnei i te kura tika mō māua. Ka ū mātou. Ka pai. Nā reira me whai wāhi hoki ō tamariki, ō mātua, ā rātou tamariki. I te mea ehara tēnei i te kura noa iho, he whānau kē.

    Nā reira koirā tā mātou karawhiu. Ka ū katoa, ka puta katoa rānei. Nā rātou te whakatau kia ū tonu. Hika, kua 12 tau, kei reira tonu. Āe.

     

    When we first met them, we put them on the floor. OK. Boy, I think we're at the wrong school. But he says, oh, yeah, but let's give it a go. Yeah, let's give it a go. So you know, at those times, everyone was—everybody liked te aute and hokorere, you know, because they'd been around for a long time. Yeah, it wasn't about a name for us and how long you'd been here. It's what we can give to you and what you're going to take.

     So you're going to take it or you ain't. If you ain't going to take it, well, then you can ding dong move along. That's as simple as that. Because you know, for us, we've got this whakaro all in or all out. Yeah. And me and my brother, we're here, and we're all in. So if you're not all in, then this isn't the kura for us. Yeah. We're in. OK. Kapai. Then your kids have to be in, too, and their parents and their babies. Not just the kura, because this ain't a kura. This is a whanau. Mm. Yeah. So that's just how we roll. We're either all in or we're all out. And they decided we're all in. Hika, 12 years later, still there. Yeah.

     

    He aha tō tāera whakaako? He aha te wāhi ki a koe nō kōrua e whakaako ana, kōrua ko Uncle Tūhoe?

     

    What's your teaching style? What do you look after while you guys are tutoring?You and Uncle Tuhui.

     

    He wā tōna nā māua ko taku tungāne ngā mahi. Heoi anō, ka haramai ngā tamariki ki te kura. Ka tae te wā kia puta, kia nekeneke haere, kia puta i

     

    We used to be me and my brother, and then the kids came to the kura. Yeah. And when it was time for them to move out, we'd be able to

    Nekeneke haere

    Move around, not out Move around

    Nekeneke haere. Āe. Āe. Āe. Nekeneke haere. Āe. Nekeneke haere, puta. I kī atu māua ki ngā tamariki kia whāia ā rātou tohu. Āe, mēnā ka pai ki a koe, hoki mai, engari kua whai koe i tētahi mea, me te aha, katoa ngā tamariki he kaiako. Nā reira kua wha i ara ahau ki te mahi i ngā mahi o muri. 

     

    I te wāe mahi ana taku kuia i ngā piupiu me aua mahi rā, ko ā mātou kai he kapu tī. Te nohunohu hoki. I te mea ka rongo anake koe i te harakeke.

     

     

    Ka whakarekarekahia, ka tīkina he pākete pakapaka, ka toutouhia ai. Āe. Kua paku pai ake. 

     

    Nā reira me hoki atu ki te ōrokohanganga. Nā wai te kākano i whakatō? Nā ō tātou tīpuna.

     

    Engari nā runga i te whakapakeketanga ake, ka haere tonu. Ināianei he kaiako ā māua tamariki ki reira. Nāku ngā mahi o muri, ngā mahi tunu kai. Engari ko tāku ki a rātou, “Mōku, ko te 90% o te kapa haka ko ngā mahi o muri. Ko te tū te 10% o ngā mahi.” Āe. Nā reira ko te wāhi ki a koe he huri i te 10 kia 90 e hua ake ai ko te 100.

     

    Me pērā te tātai. Āe. Tae ana ki ngā titonga a aku tamariki, katoa he kōrero Māori. Engari ko tāku, “Ko rātou aku tuakana.” Āe. Ka whiua tērā kōrero, “Kāo, ko aku tuakana ērā.” Āe. Engari he pūkenga motuhake ō te katoa, āe, i te whānau.

     

     

    Nā reira ka whakarārangi atu i a rātou, tae ana ki te whakakākahu i a rātou.

    Āe. Kua whai teihana ināianei. Ko te wāhi ki ngā mātāmuri, ka tae mai āpōpō, ko ngā mahi puoro. Ko te wāhi ki ngā mātāmua, ki a Tiahuia rāua ko Para, ko ngā kupu, me Uncle Tūhoe hoki. Hui katoa, he moemoeā tō mātou. 

    Heoi anō tā mātou he whakatau ko tēhea te moemoeā ka whāia. Āe, ko tēhea kaupapa. 

     

    Ko te mea nui kia whai kāinga tahi, kāinga rua, kāinga toru, ka hua ake ko tētahi o ērā. Ka piri ana, ka hanga tūmatarau. Kua tae te wā ki te whakakākahu i ngā tamariki. Ko tā P rāua ko Tūrei, i muri i ngā mahi puoro, he whakakākahu i a rātou, he mahi i ngā makawe me ngā pani mata. Mā Tiahuia e mahi ngā pari me ngā piupiu, kia taiea ai ō rātou āhua. Ka whakaita i ngā poi. Āe. Aua momo āhuatanga katoa. Kātahi ka whakarārangi atu i a rātou. Kotahi anō tirotirohanga, ka kuhu mai a Tūhoe, ka takina te karakia whakamutunga, ana, kua tū

    Yeah, yeah. Move around. Move around. Move out. We told the kids to go and get their tohus. Yeah, and if you like it, come back. But you've always got something. And now all the kids are kaiako at the kura. So it's given me the leeway to now do all the back part. Yeah. So I set up all the back now. 

     

     

    So now I'm that--because I've got to go back to my nanny, because you know when my nanny was making the puipui's and all that, our kai at that time was a cup of tea. Man, it was yuck. Because all you could taste was the flax. 

    So you know, sweeten it up, get a bit of packet of crispy, and dip, dip, dip. Oh, yeah, that's a bit better. 

     

    So you always go back to where we started from. Who planted that seed?  Our people don't plant those .

     

    But because of the upbringing, it just keeps going. And now our kids are teachers there. So now I do all the back part, do all the cooking. But I do say to them, I say to them, well, you know, for me, 90% of that kapa haka is that back stuff. When you perform, that's the 10%. their turn turns into that 90, and then you're going to get 100. 

     

     

    That's how you count it up. Yeah. But you know, even composing, now my kids, they all call them Maori. But I will, you know, they're my tuakana, you know? And I tell people, I tell them, that's my tuakana. Yeah. You would just go straight there. Yeah. But then, you know, but everyone has their own skill. Yeah. Yeah, in your family. 

     

    Yeah. Even after school. So we line them up, even when we dress them. Yeah, so we've got stations now. So my two younger ones, or I think they're here tomorrow sometime, so they now do the music. Yeah. My two big ones, Tiahui and Para, they now do the kupu along with Uncle Tuhoi. Together, we kind of like have a vision. We just got to decide which vision we're going to take. Yeah, which kaupapa. 

     

     

     

    As long as you got plan A, plan B, and plan C, because you're going to have one of them. And then when we come together, make magic happen. It's time to dress the kids. P and T, you know? After their music, they now dress them. They make sure to do the hair, the makeup. Tiahui does the bodices, the pipi, make sure they look on point. Poe is tucked in, you know, all that kind of stuff. And then they line them up. I just do the last check. Tihui comes in, does the last karakia, and then bang, you're on

    He mea nui te mōhio ki tō ara i aua pūkenga, kaua e whakawhiti ki ara kē?

    Don't cross over into another lane, girl. Is it important to know your lane in that skill set?

    Āe, ko au tēnā, e keo. Ko au tēnā. Āe. Nā te mea kua roa au e mahi ana i ngā mahi nei, ehara i te mea kua waia. Heoi anō, kei te whakaū noa iho i te pai o ngā tamariki kia tae te wā ka wehe atu māua ko taku tungāne. Koirā noa iho. Āe. E takatū ana ngā tamariki. Āe. E tau ana tā māua haere atu. Kia noho tāua, tungāne.

    Yeah, that's me, my girl. Yeah, that's me. Yeah, yeah. I guess because we've been doing it for a long time. And it's not because I'm used to doing it. You just got to make sure when me and my brother Ding dong move along, the kids are right. Yeah. That's all it is. Yeah. Make sure our kids are on lock. Our kids, we can go away and feel good about--yep. Yeah. Let's go and take a seat, brother.

    Pai te mahi tahi ki tō whānau?

    Awesome working with your whanau? 

    Āe. Me pērā nā te mea katoa ka ū, katoa ka puta. Ko tētahi painga, ka whakapono tētahi ki tētahi. Āe. E kore mātou e tohe. Āe. Ka kuhu mai, ka kōrero, ka koke tonu. Engari kei te papa koe, koirā te karawhiu. Mō mātou, ko te mea nui ko te haumarutanga o ngā tamariki rā, o ō rātou marae, ō rātou whānau me ō rātou hapū. Koirā te aronga matua. Kāore i te aro ki tō tiketiketanga. Āe.

    Yeah. You've got to be because all in and all out. One thing about it, you can trust each other. Yeah. Yeah. We never argue. Yeah. We just come in, say your piece, and move along. Yeah. But you're on the floor. That's just how it is. Yeah. But you're on the floor. Because the thing for us, the safety of those kids, the safety of those kids' marae, their whanau, and their hapu. That's the main thing for us. Yeah. It's not whether you're the A grade. Yeah.

     

    Nā, kāore koe i te tū noa ki mua i te kapa me te whakarite i te kura, he kaiwhakarite hoki koe o ngā whakataetae ā-rohe, nē? 

    So you're not just standing in front of the kapa and getting the kura ready. You're also part of the organizers for the regional competitions as well.

    Āe, e keo.

     

    Me aha e pērā ai?

    What does it take to do that?

    He rawe. Pai mutunga.

    Lovely. Love it

    He aha ai?

    Why?

    Nā te mea koirā tō mātou whakapakeketanga.

    He rawe. Kua titia ki te rae. Hoake. He tau anō. Āe. Ka kī ahau, “Ki te haere tahi mai koe ki ahau, me kuhu ō hū retireti. Me whai mai.” Āe. 

    Ko te hīkoi me te kōrero, hīkoi me te kōrero. Āe.`

     

     

    Engari nō te tīmatatanga o aku tamariki, tae ana ki aku whāngai, he maha aku whāngai, heoi anō, ka kite rātou i te āhua o ā māua ko Tūhoe whakahaere. Ko Tūhoe ka tū, ka whai wā. Ahau, ka hīkoi tonu, ana, ka haramai rātou ki taku taha, “Taihoa. Kua haere ahau ki te tiki i te mea, te mea.” Ko keo kei te taraiwa, kei te kōrero i te waea, kei te pātuhi hoki i te wā kotahi.” Āe. Nā reira ka waia ngā tamariki. Ana, ka “Māku e whakautu māna. Kua haere ahau ki tō taha i te rā nei.” Ka pai. “Koirā tō mahi i ngā rā katoa o tō ao. Koirā te mahi. Kei te hiainu ō hāmua, ō hāmuri, ko koe tēnā. Haere ki te toa, e keo.”

     

    Because it's just how we're brought up. Yeah. Love it. Already got it in my head. Let's go Another year. Yeah. Yeah. I just tell people, when you come with me, you're going to put skates on. You keep up. Yeah. But walk and talk. Walk and talk. Yeah. You just got to walk and talk.

     

     

     

    But then my kids started-- even all my whangai's. Got a lot of whangai's. Yeah. They started noticing how me and Tihui were operating. Tihui would stop and take time out. Yeah. Me, I just keep walking. And yet they come for a ride with me. Hang on. I just got to go and get this. Girl. Girl is driving, texting, and on the phone at the same time. Yeah. And then the kids pick it up. They go, I'll pick that up for her. Yeah. I'm coming with you today. OK. Well, that's your job for the rest of your life. That's what you do. And your brothers and sisters want to drink, that's you. Get down to that shop, my girl. 

    Āe. - He aha i hirahira ai a tua atu o te atamira? E 25 miniti e tū ana ki te atamira, kua 35 ināianei, ka mutu, e ai ki a koe koirā te 10% o te ngao ka tukuna i ngā wānanga. He aha I hirahira ake ai a tua atu o te atamira?

    Yeah, Why is it important? Why is offstage important? Why is offstage-- so we've got 25 minutes, 35 minutes now on stage performance, which you say is 10% of all of the energy that we put into all of our wananga. Why is offstage important?

    Nā te mea koirā te whakatinanatanga o ngā titonga a te tangata me ngā mahi a ngā kaiako, waihoki, a te whānau. Koinei te moemoeā. Whakatinanahia te moemoeā. Whakatinanahia te titonga, whakatinanahia te tū. Engari me mahi ā-whānau, ā-Kahungunu. Kia mahara ake he Kahungunu koe. Ehara koe i a Te Arawa. Āe. Ehara koe i a Raukura. Ehara koe i a Rākaumanga, he Kahungunu koe. 

    Ka mutu I reira. Tuhia ki te rae. Kaua e whakaaro ki rōpū kē atu, me whakaaro ki a koe anō.

    Because it's bringing people's compositions alive. It's bringing the mahi that kaiako put in or whanau put in.<This is the vision. Bring the vision alive. Bring the composition alive. Bring the stance alive. But you do it as a whanau. Kahungunu. Always remember your kahungunu. You're not Te Arawa. Yeah. You're not Raukura. Yeah. You're not Rakaumanga. You're kahungunu. That's the end of that. Put it in your head. Don't think about any other group but yourself.

    I tua o te atamira. Kei te kōrero tāua mō tua o te atamira. Nā reira ka tū koe ki mua i ā tātou tamariki, ka ākona, ka wānanga, ka kai, ngā mahi o muri, ngā kākahu, ngā whānau e mahi tahi ana. I tua o te atamira, ka ako koe i ō tamariki ki Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Heretaunga engari ko koe hoki kei te whakahaere i ngā whakataetae o te rohe. He aha ai?

     

    Offstage. So we're speaking about offstage. So you stand in front of our kids. You take them, wananga, kai, background, kakahu, whanau doing everything together. And now offstage, you don't only tutor your kids. At Te kura kaupapa Maori o Ngāti Kahungunu ki heretaunga But you also run competitions around here as well. Yeah.Why?

    Koirā tō mātou whakapakeketanga, e keo. He māori noa iho, e keo. Engari kua tono mai ngā kaumātua me te iwi ki a māua ko taku tungāne me te kī mai, “Kōrua, whakahaerehia. Kaua e waea mai. Whakahaerehia.” Nā reira ka whakahaerehia. Ka whakahaere māua i ngā whakataetae ā-rohe. Kātahi ka tono māua ki te whakahaere i te whakataetae ā-motu. He rite tonu taku kī atu, “Kaua e wareware, nā māua i whakahaere i mua i Te Matatini.”

     

     Āe. Nā reira ko te kaupapa kōrero ko te kōwhiri i te ingoa o te whakataetae ā-motu. Nā reira ka kōwhiri māua i Te Hāro o te Kaahu. Āe. Mō Te Matatini, i kōwhiria e rātou a Te Kahu o te Amorangi. Āe. Koirā ngā mata e rua. Nā reira I waimarie māua ko Tūhoe ki te whakahaere I taua kaupapa, ka mutu, i rawe. Āe. Tokoono mātou i whakahaere i te whakataetae kura tuarua ā-motu. I rawe. Pai mutunga. 

     

    Āe. Koirā pea tētahi o aku tino kaupapa. Nā te mea ko ngā tamariki te aronga, ko te iwi. Hei aha noa iho ngā kaiwhakawā, whakaarohia ngā tamariki, whakaarohia te iwi. Whāngaihia rātou. Āe. Whāngaihia te iwi. 

     

    Because it's our upbringing, girl. It's just the normal day. It's just the normal day, my girl. But what the kaumātua have come and the iwi have come and they said to me and my brother, you two, run it. Just run the damn thing. They bring us up. Just run it. So we just run it. So we do regionals. Remember that we went and then we tonoed to run the nationals. Yeah. And at the time, so we ran first. And I always say, don't forget we ran first before Matatini. Yeah. 

     

     

    So it was about choosing the name for the nationals. So when we chose the name for the nationals, we chose Te Hāro o Te Kahu. Yeah. Yeah. And then Matatini, they chose Te Kahu o Te Amarangi. Yeah. Yeah. It was to go on side of each other. And so me and Tuhoe had the privilege of having to run that kaupapa. And it was mean. Loved it. Yeah. Six of us ran that secondary nationals. Loved it. It was cool. 

     

     

    Yeah. Yeah. One of the best journeys out probably. Best journey because it was all about just think about the kids, think about the people. 

     

    Āe. I rawe tērā. Nā koutou i manaaki te papa whakataetae, waihoki, i peka koutou ki ngā hapū, ngā iwi me ngā marae katoa o konei ki te tuku i ngā moenga, ngā kai, ngā kaimoana mō te whakataetae kura tuarua ā-motu i te tau 2016, nē?

    Yeah. Because you guys didn't just look after the venue. You also went around to every hapū and every iwi around here and marae to provide anything. Matches, kai, kaimoana, both for second juries, which is in 2016, eh?

    Āe

    Yeah

    Me te tau 2017, whuuu.

    And then 2017 was?

    Pai mutunga.

    Good ending

    He aha ai?

    Who?

    Nā te mea koirā tō mātou whakapakeketanga, e keo. Ko tātou tēnei, āe.

    Because it's our upbringing. Oh my girl. Because it's our upbringing. It's just who we are.

    Āe. Ko tātou tēnei.

    It's just who we are

    Nā reira i māmā noa iho a Te Matatini. Engari he taumata nui ake. He pai ki a au te mahi ki ngā tamariki, he kore nō rātou e whakahoki kōrero. He rerekē ngā pakeke, “Whaea, he ipu kina anō tāu?” “A, kāo.”

    So Matatini was just easy to do. Yeah. It was just on a bit of a bigger scale. I love it with the kids, because the kids don't answer you back. Different with pākeke. Oh, wha, you got another pun of the kina? No.

    Ka pai.

    Ok

    Āe. Engari katoa ka ū, katoa ka puta. Āe. 10 ki a koe, 10 ki tērā kapa, 10 ki a rātou. Āe. Kāore tētahi i nui ake i tētahi. He ōrite koutou, he whānau kotahi.

    OK. Yeah. But all in, all out. You get 10, that whānau get 10. That group get 10. Yeah. No one's higher than everybody else. You're all the same. One whānau

    He aha te hiranga o te mahi tahi, tokoono koutou e mahi ana i te whakataetae kura tuarua ā-motu.

    So how important is it to mahi tahi? You had six people. You all ran the secondary nationals.

    He ātaahua.

    Yep. Beautiful.

     

    He aha te hiranga o te mahi tahi?

    How important is it?

    Āe. Kaua e whakawhiti ara. Ko tāku, “I te wāhi ki ngā pūtea, hei aha māku. Kāore aku wā ki te titiro ki ngā nama. Kei te mahi tīnihanga rātou.” Ko tāku, “Mā māua a muri, mā kōrua tēnei wāhanga me tēnei wāhanga.” Āe.

    Yeah, and don't cross lanes. Yeah, don't cross lanes. I said, me, when it comes to pūtea, don't give that to me. I ain't got time to look at digits. That's you two. I said, us two will do the back, and you two do this part, this part. Yeah Yeah Yeah.

    Āe. He hirahira te mahi tahi, nē?

    Really important to mahi tahi, eh?

    Nā, ka tīmata te whakataetae ā-motu, ka hui mātou, te tokoono, i taua ata, ka karakia nui ai. Kia kite tātou i te huanga ake o te tūmatarau.

    And then when the nationals started, the six of us got together that morning. We had a big karakia. And we said, let's see magic unfold in front of our eyes.

    Rawe.

    Mean.

    Me te aha, i pērā. Ko tāku, “Ki te raru ētahi, tukuna ki a Tuhoe, nā te mea ko ia te heamana.” Ko tā taku tungāne, “Tukuna ki a Maku, ko ia te tuakana.” Engari ināianei ko Tuhoe te heamana o te huhua

    And it did. Yeah. And I said, and if you need he raru with anybody, send them to Tūhoe, because he's the chair. Because some of my brother goes, send him to Maki, because she's the tuakana. But now Tūhoe's the chair of different

    He tangata tau te rangimārie?

    And he's Tauterangi Māri, too?

    Āe, tau te rangimārie. Āe. Nā, ināianei ko ahau te māngai ki Mana Kuratahi a Kahungunu. Ko ahau te māngai a te kapa me te wharekura. Āe. Ko taku mahere tauatanga ko te tō mai i taku tamāhine.  Āe. He aha au e tō mai nei i a rātou? He kaingākau nō rātou. Āe.

    Yeah. How to help. Yeah, Tauterangi Māri. Yeah. But from there, see now I'm the delegate of the Mana Kura Tahi for Kahungunu, for the kapa, I'm the delegate for Wharekura. Yeah, so my succession plan is move my girl in. Yeah. Because why do I move them in? Because they love it. Yeah

    Tō tamāhine.

    Your girl

    Tēhea?

    Which one?

    Rāua tahi. Kaitātaki wahine. He aha te hiranga o te tuku i ngā pūkenga me ngā mātangatanga ki a rāua hei ārahi i tētahi kapa. He pēhea tērā, te whakarite i ō tamāhine?

    Both of your girls. Kaitātaki Wahine.How important is it to be able to give them the skills and expertise to lead a team? What is that like, getting your girls ready?

     

    He rerekē tā mātou karawhiu. I te wāhi ki te kaitātaki, e kore au e aro ki te kaitātaki. Ka aro ahau ki te kapa. He takitahi noa iho tērā, engari he whānau kotahi tātou. Katoa ka ū, katoa ka puta. E keo, ko koe te tuatahi ki te maranga me te whakamutunga ki te moe. Koirā te mahi a te kaitātaki. Ehara i te mea ka tū koe, ka kī ‘hope’ ka karanga, ka waiata i tō rangi, te mea, te mea.

     

     Ko te aronga ko tō tiaki i tō kapa me te whakaū i tā tō kapa whakapono ki a koe ka eke ana i te atamira. Mā tō kapa koe e tuarā. Ko koe te tuatahi ki te maranga, kei te kīhini koe e āwhina mai ana ki te tunu parakuihi, ā, ko koe te mea whakamutunga ki te moe. Kei te whakapai koe I ngā wharepaku i tō kapa e moe ana. Āe. Koirā te kaitātaki ki ahau nei. Koirā te kaitātaki. Āe. Māu a mua, a muri hoki. Mā ngā mahi o muri e tae ai koe ki mua. 

     

    Ko tētahi āhuatanga o taku tamāhine, o Panache, kāore ia i pīrangi mau korowai rerekē. Kāore ia i pīrangi kia rerekē ōna makawe. Ko tāna, “Kāo, kei te pīrangi ahau kia ōrite ki aku tungāne me aku tuākana, tēina.” Kātahi ka haramai a māmā, nē, mōhio koe ki a kuia, he kaiwhakawā tō mātou māmā I taua wa. Āe. Ka haramai a māmā, ka kī mai, “Me mau kahu rerekē tō tamāhine.” E pai ai tā ngā kaiwhakawā tūtohu ko wai te kaitātaki. Ka kī atu ahau, “Pepe, me mau kahu rerekē koe.” 

     

    Ko tāna, “He aha tēnā?” Ko tāku, “Aua hoki, māu e kōwhiri.” Ko tāna, “Ka mau piupiu rerekē ahau. Engari kei te pīrangi ahau kia ōrite ki aku tungāne, tuākana, tēina.” Engari anō a Tiahuia, he kōrero anō tērā. He tūturu tana whakapakeketanga i raro i taku māmā. I whakaritea kētia ia. Āe. Kāore ia i whakaritea kia tū hei kaitātaki. Engari i kī noa atu ki a ia I tētahi rā ko ia te kaitātaki. Ko tāna, “A, ka pai.”Ka mutu ki reira. “Engari mahia atu ō mahi.” Nā reira i te pērā kē ia. Āe. He āhua anō tōna. “Māku e kuhu te korowai, me tēnei.” Āe. 

     

    Nā reira e rua ngā tāera motuhake. Whakakotahi ai rāua i aua tāera. Āe. Kāore e pai ki a Panache kia kōrerohia tēnei, heoi anō, i te wā i toa i a ia te kaitātaki ki te whakataetae ā-motu i te Tairāwhiti, ka piki mai ia, ka rongo mātou i te “Hm?” Ka pai. I ngū katoa tō mātou whānau. Āe. Engari i nui te whakahīhī o roto heoi anō, I ngū. 

     

    So it's different for us. So when I do kaitātaki, I don't focus on the kaitātaki. I focus on the group. She-- they're just one person. We are whole whānau. One whānau, all in or all out. So my girl, you're the first up, and you're the last down to sleep. That's part of being kaitātaki. It's not about get up and say, hope, and do your karanga, and sing your note, whatever it is. It's all about you look after your group. 

     

    You make sure that your group trusts you when you get on that stage. Yeah. Your group has got your back. So you're up first, and you're in the kitchen helping me do breakfast, and you're last down, You're cleaning those toilets when they're in bed. Yeah. Yeah. That's kaitātaki to me. Yeah. You can do the front, or you can do the back too, because that back is going to get you to that front.  

     

     

     

     

    One thing about my girl, Panash, she was a bit--she was that person that she didn't want a different korowai. She didn't want a different head do.She said, no, I want to look the same as my brothers and sisters. But then it was Mum that came, because you know, Kuia he kaiwhakawā our mum. It was Mum that came. She said, you know, your girl needs to wear something different. So then when Kaiwhakawā judge, any kaitātaki, they can I dentify who's the leader. Yeah. I said, Pepe, you need to wear something different. 

     

     

    She said, like what? I said, I don't know. Pick something. She goes, well, I'll wear a different pepe. But the rest, I want to look like my brothers and sisters. Probably with Tiahuia was different, because she had a very strong upbringing with my mother. Yeah. So she was already groomed. Yeah, but she wasn't groomed to be a kaitātaki. They just told her one day she's the kaitātaki. And she goes, well, OK. That was it. Yeah. But you just do what you do. So she would do what she was doing. Yeah.

     

     

     

     

    So she was different. I'll wear that korowai, and I'll wear this. But yeah. Yeah. But there's two different styles. They both bring it together. Yeah. Because my girl, I'm not talking about her, but you know, when she won the kaitātaki at the Nationals in Tairawhiti, you know, and she came up, we just said, hmm? OK. But you know, our whole family, we knew. Yeah. Yeah. But inside, very proud, but we knew.

    Āna, whakaiti. Whakaiti.

    Whakaiti Yeah. Humble.

    Ko te kōrero i a mātou, “Me tatari kia tae ki te kāinga.” Koirā te kōrero i a mātou. “Me tatari kia tae ki te kāinga.” 

    Because our line is, wait till you get home. That's our line. Wait till you get home.

    Āe. Ka pērā hoki mātou. Ka hui ki runga pahi kia kaua koe e kitea. Nā reira ki te whakakōpani koe i tēnei hui ki ngā kupu akiaki e toru e pai ake ai te tū a ā tātou tamariki, he aha aua momo kōrero?

    Yeah. Same with us. Have a huli on the bus when no one sees you. So if we were to wrap this up, and we had--you had three top things to be able to encourage our kids to be better performers, what would they be? 

    Mēnā e ora tonu ana ō kaumātua, kapohia ā rātou kōrero. Whāia ō kaumātua ki ngā wāhi katoa.

     Whai mai ai taku tama i ahau ki ngā wāhi katoa. “Haramai, e tama. Kua haere tāua.” I te mea koirā te ōrokohanganga. Nā rātou tonu te kākano i whakatō, nā ō tātou tīpuna. Ka kite ana koe i ngā kaipuoro, he rite tonu taku kī atu, nā rātou ngā kākano i whakatō, Te Kenana Wi Te Tau Huata, Paraire Henare Tomoana, Irirangi Tiakiawa. Mauriora Kepa. Mauriora Kingi, mō taku hapa, tungāne. Āe. Tahi tērā. Ka rua, kia tapatahi. Katoa ka ū, katoa ka puta. Me āpiti ahau i ētahi kōrero, ngā waiata, i pērā ngā waiata, nē? (E waiata ana). Kāore he whakaniko. I taku rongotanga tuatahi, ko tāku, “He aha kē te nenekara rā?” (E waiata ana). Ko tāku, “Me kaua rawa e pērā te waiatahia o te waiata o taku koroua.” Nē, te tāera waiata, te tāera waiata. Engari kia kī ahau ki ā tātou rangatahi o ēnei rā. “Nō koutou te whiwhi. Kua whakatōkia kētia ngā kākano mō koutou. Kei a koutou ngā taputapu katoa kei ō koutou aroaro. Kei a koutou ngā kaiako e tū atu nā i mua i a koutou. Kei a koutou te reo, kua takohatia atu ki a koutou te reo.” Āe. Ko tāku, “Kaiparāoa noa iho mā koutou.” I tō mātou nā wā, i kanohi ki te kanohi. 

    Me kanohi ki te kanohi. Kaua e whai i te ara wawe, nā te mea he tamariki hangarau ā tātou tamariki, nē. “O, kei te rapu noa iho au i a Alex,” ka patopato. 

    Engari ko tāku ki aku tamariki, “Haere koe ki te kite atu i taua tangata, pātaihia te whānau rā.” Āe. “Kei te hia whakamahi koe I taua waiata, me waea atu, me haumaru, mātua rā ko te haumarutanga. Me taki karakia, ka mutu, me tūpore tō tono atu ki taua whānau kia whakamahi koe i te waiata. 

     

    If your grandparents are around, take whatever you can of them. Follow your grandparents everywhere You know, my boy, he follows me everywhere. Come on, my boy, we're off. Because that's where we first started from. Yeah. That's where we planted the seed. Our tūpuna planted those seeds. If you see musicians in that, that's who planted those seeds. Always remember those people. They're going to--Te kinana a Wi Te Tau Huata, Paraire Hinare Tomoana, Irirangi Tiakiwa, Mauriora Kingi. That's one. Two, always make sure that you're on tech, all in or all out. Because I'm just going to need to add something. You know that singing? Singing was like that, you see? Yeah. Tutira mai nga iwi" No trills, you know when I first saw those trills I go, what the heck's that nonsense?   Yeah. You know, "Tutira mai nga iwi" You will not sing my Koro's song like that. But you know, but the style of singing. Yeah. The style of singing. And just to always say to our rangatahi today, you're lucky. The seed's been planted for you. You have all these tools in front of you. You have all these kaiako in front of you. You have the realm. You've been gifted with that much of the realm. Yeah. 

    You've got the easiest thing out. In our days, you went Kanohi ki te kanohiBut always make sure to go Kanohi ki te kanohi Don't go to the fastest thing. Because you know our kid's do technology, because you see? Oh, I just want to look up Alex. And just tap, tap, tap. But I say to my kids, you go and see that person. And you go and ask that whānau. You want to go and sing that song. Make sure to ring up. Be safe. Always got to be safe. Have a karakia. And always be polite to ask that whānau if you could use it.

    Rawe.

    Mean

    Āe. Koia.

    And yeah

    He rawe tēnā.

    That's mean.

    Koirā noa iho. Āe. Engari ka maumahara au ki taku tino. Kenana Wi Te Tau, Paraire Henare Tumoana, Te Atairangikaahu, Irirangi Tiakiawa, Sonny Kepa, Te Kepa Marsh, Mauriora Kingi.

    Aunty Bernadette e karangahia nei ko Tiorita,Te Rita. Timoti Karetu. I reira ia i ō mātou nā rā. 

     

    Uuu, i mua i te whakakapinga, kia kī ahau, Timoti Karetu. He hoa piritata nō taku māmā. Ko ‘Kui’ tana ingoa karanga mōna. I haere rāua ki Hawaii, ka hoki mai, ko tāna, “He waiata tāku.” Ko tāna, “Ka pai.” Ka kī atu ia, “Māu aku nekehanga poi haere ake nei.” 

     

     

    Ko tana poi tuatahi māna, ko (e waiata ana). I aua rā, i pēnei mātou he pūkenga mātou e pēnei ana. Ināianei, ka titiro ana koe, ka pēnei mātou.  Engari mo te poi. I māmā te poi, ā, ko ngā tūkawe o te poi, whakatakihia. Kia kaua ngā waewae e whakamātāmuri i te poi. 

     

    Te tāera o te poi. Kia mau ki te tāera o te poi. Kia hoki au tā aku tamariki tito waiata. Nōu ka tito waiata.  He wā ōna ka whakaaro ahau, koinei taku mahi? Te rangatahi e, te rangatahi e. Ka mate ana tētahi nō te whānau, kei te hia tito waiata ahau mōna. Hei, hei, kōrerohia tēnei me tēnā.

     

     

    Mahara au ki te wā i haramai taku kōtiro ki a au, ka kī mai, “Māmā, kei te whai kaupapa ahau mō te poi.” Ko tāku, “Ka pai. Kōrerohia ngā manu.” Ko tāna, “Ēhea manu?” Ko tāku, “(e waiata ana).” Ka pērā.  Me tito e pā ana ki ngā manu me ā rātou ki a tātou. Ko tā tātou he tāwhai i ngā manu me ngā ngāngara. I ahu mai te pūkana i hea? I ngā manu, mātakina ō rātou karu. 

     

    Nā, ko tā taku kōtiro, “Whaea, kāore au e mōhio ki te pūkana.” Ko tāku, “Tīkina te tī tāora rā me te hanga tūmatarau.” Ko tā rātou, “Huh?” Ana, koia. 

    Nā reira me whakaako koe i ngā tāera huhua ki ngā tamariki. Kaua e kī atu, “Huakina ō karu. Engari me kī atu, “Tīkina te tī tāora rā, kātahi ka pūkana mai ō karu.” Āe. “Horoia ngā maitai.” Āe. Nā reira koirā te ahunga mai.

     

     

    He tāera tito anō, nē, he tāera tito anō.

    Engari me whāngai hoki ki tō manawa, ki tō ngākau me tō aroha. Āe. Waihoki, me hāngai ngā puoro ki ngā kōrero. Kaua ko te whakahāngai i ngā kōrero ki ngā puoro. Āe. Me hāngai ngā puoro. Kaua e waiata (e waiata ana), e hoki. 

    Koirā te kōrero. 

     

     

    Tēnā koe i whakamanuhiri I ahau i te rā nei. He rawe ki ahau te kōrero mō taku koro i te rā nei. Kua aua atu te wā kua kōrero au mō taku pāpā, me te kōrero mō taku māmā nāna mātou i whakapakeke ake. Ko ia tō mātou māmā me tō mātou pāpā.

     

    Āe. E kore koe e mōhio ki te āhua o tō whakapakeketanga kia kōrero rā anō koe ki tētahi atu. Āe. Mutunga kē mai o te pai. He kōrero Māori ō mātou, he kaitito, he tāngata haka, he tāngata karakia, he tikanga, he kawa. Āe. Kua How Great Thou Art ināianei, Whakaaria Mai. 

     

     

    I te wā e ora tonu ana a Howard Morrison, ko taku koro tana Matua Atawhai. Ka haramai a Uncle Howard, ko tāna, “Uncle, kei te whai waiata ahau e rongonui ai ahau.” I taua wā ko te momo pēnei i a Dalvanius, ko ngā Yandell, Tui Teka. I pīrangi ia kia rongonui ia. Nā reira ko tā taku koro, “Whai mai.” I roto I ā mātou mahi katoa, heoi anō tāu, he whai atu i te tangata. Māna koe e ako ki te whai atu. Ka tae rāua ki Te Awamutu, ā, ko tā koro, “Arā tō waiata. Whakaaria Mai How Great Thou Art. Māu e rongonui ai,” me te aha, i pērā ia.

    That's it, really. Yeah. But just always remember my Tino. Kinana Wi Te Tau, Paraire Hinare Tomoana, Te AtairangiKaahu, Irirangi Tiakiawa, Sonny Kepa, Te kepa Marsh, Mauriora Kingi, Aunty Bernadette, who everybody call's Tiorita, Tirita, Timoti Karetu He was around in our days. 

     

     

    Oh, I must say that. Just before we end, say Timoti Karetu, He was very close with my mum. He used to call her koi And they went to Hawaii. They came back. And he says, I've got a waiata. She goes, OK. And he said, you're to do all my poi actions from now on. And the first poi he did for her was that she did for him. 

     

    I was like—[SINGING] Those days, we thought we were neat going like this. Now when you look at her, we go--But you know, some poi is simple. And it's the technical poi. Control it. Sometimes you don't let the feet--don't let your feet take over the poi. Yeah. The style of poi. 

     

    Make sure that the style of poi stays. 

    You know, getting back to my kids composing. When you compose, well, you know, I really got to say, my goodness, sometimes rangatahi--yeah, rangatahi, you know, this-- you know, Whānau perish. Oh, I want to do a song about that, hey? Talk about this. Talk about that. 

     

     

    Yeah.Remember, my girl coming to me, she said, Mum, I need a kaupapa for poi. I said, OK. Do about the birds. And I go--And she said, what birds? [SINGING] That's easy. What about the birds? Tell them what they bring to us. Because we mimic birds and we mimic insects. Where does pukana come from? From the birds. Watch their eyes. 

     

     

     

    Nervous up, my girl goes, fire, I don't know, to the pukana. I was going, we're going to grab their tea towel over there and make magic happen. And they go, huh? That's it. 

    So you got to teach the kids different styles of how to do those things. Yes, you can. Don't tell them, go and open your eyes. Don't tell them, go get that tea towel over there. You'll soon open those eyes. Yeah. Or go wash the dishes. And so that's how that all comes around.

     

    Different way of composing. It's just different styles of composing. But you got to put heart, passion, and love into it. Yeah. Yeah. And then make sure the music goes with the kōrero. Not the kōrero, goes with the music. Make sure your music goes. You can't be singing like, ka ka ka pipi wharenia, ka ka ka pipi wharenia. Get back. Anarchist. 

    So that's the kōrero. 

     

    Thank you for having me. I've just loved speaking about my koro today. Been a long time since I've spoken about my dad. And just talking about my mum who brought us up. Who's our mother and our father. 

     

     

     

    Yeah. Yeah. And I guess you don't realise how you've been brought up until you tell someone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we have our speakers. We have compositions. We have haka people. We have karakia people. We have tikanga and kawa. But it really sounds like I'm doing how great thou art now. Whakāria mai.

     

     

    You know, because Howard Morrison, when he was around, because my koro is his godfather. And Uncle Howard came and he says, Uncle, I need a song to make me famous Because at that time, there was Delphinius and the Yandall sisters and Tui teka. So he wanted to become famous. So koro said, follow me. So anything we did, you just have to follow the person. They're going to teach you. Just follow them. Yeah. And so they got to Te Ao Matu. And my koro said, there's your song. Whakāriamai. How great thou art. Now go and make it famous. And he did. 

    Āe. I pērā ia.

    Yeah, he did

    Āe. Nāna i rongonui ai. 

    Nā reira kei te mihi ahau ki te hunga nā rātou i ora ai ngā waiata a taku koro. Kei te mihi ahau ki te hunga e waiata tonu ana i ngā waiata a aku tīpuna. Āe. Ko te kōrero a aku tamariki, “O, anei anō ia e kōrero ana i te pūrākau.” He whakahīhī nōku. 

    Yeah. He made it famous. So I thank all those people for bringing my koros songs alive. I thank all those people that still sing my tūpuna songs. Yeah. You know, my kids, oh, here she goes, telling the story again. Just because I'm proud

    Āe. Kaingākau ana anō hoki. 

    Yeah. Passionate, too

    He whakapakeketanga. Koia. Āe. Kaingākau. Āe, koia.

    Yeah. Passion. Yeah. That's the one.

    Me i a tāua te rā katoa ki te kōrero, kātahi rā.

    I wish we had all day to kōrero. 

     

    Kei konā katoa au, e keo.

    Oh, I would say my girl, but you know.

    Engari kāore i te pērā.

    But we don't.

    Kāo, e koke e noke.

    No. Ding dong, move along.

    Engari e mihi ana, e mihi ana ki ngā kōrero katoa ki o tupuna kua whakatō mai ki roto ki ta tatou kaupapa i tenei wa nei.  Tēnā rawa atu koe, Auntie Maks. I rawe ngā kōrero. Atu i a mātou katoa o konei, tēnā rawa atu koe i ngā kōrero o te rā nei, hei rauemi mo a tatau tamariki. Nō reira e mihi ana.

     

    But, thank you. I want to acknowledge your ancestors for planting the seed for today. So thank you very much, Auntie Mak's That was a mean kōrero But now, from all of us here, thank you so much for all the kōrero today. To be used as resources for our children So, thank you.

    Kia piri tahi te whānau.

    Keep the whānau together.

     

    Outro:  

    Maku Ropitini stands ons stage and performs a waiata. Close ups of multiple shots of carvings, Birds eye view pan shot of green hols with a river in the foreground. Low close up view of a river with trees in the background, followed by multiple shots of more of the same river. Panned shot of the ocean with a cliff island in the middle. A close up of a large tree trunk debris on the beach with the same cliff island in the distance. Close up shot of the tree debris trunk where it has snapped. The beach with the ocean in the background with waves breaking on the shore. Close up shot of a carving. Black background screen with the words “ Ministry of education, Te Tāhuhu o te Mātauranga” displayed 

     

    [ Accordion ]

    Intro while music plays are shots of a bridge over the river, over to a shot overlooking the ocean and beaches. Then a closeup of a carving, then a significant building in Opotiki on to the road sign for Opotiki. Panning shots of a historical painting, then back to the river and barge. We then have a soaring shot of a bird eye view of the Opotiki district, into a pan shot of a church and carvings that are landmarks in this area. Shots of the skate part which contains carved pou situated in the skate part ending that shot with a closeup of one of the pou. Ending the intro on a shot overlooking the ocean and beach coming down to the carved pou with the words Te Whakatōhea on the screen. Closing it off with the words on the screen Te Ao Haka with the logo for Te Ao Haka.

    Reo Māori

    Reo Pākehā

    Ka whakatangihia rā te Tētere ki runga ō Maungārangi. Whakatangihia rā taku pere ki runga o Te Reremōari. E waimaria ana ahau i tēnei rā kia noho ki taku Pāpā. Ki taku Korowai, ki taku Kaiako.Oti rā kā mutu ki te Koroua o Te Whakatohea. Rangatira nui, ia te Kāhautu.

    Nōreira tēna koe kei taku Pāpā.

     

    The bugle rings out atop Maungārangi. My bell rings out atop Te Reremōari. I’m fortunate to be in your company today, Uncle. My sheltering cloak, my mentor and the elder of Te Whakatōhea 

    Te Kāhautu, the great chief. Greetings, Uncle.

    Tēna koe Pāora.

    Greetings, Pāora

    Mē taku waimarie ko tāua tēnei e noho tahi ana, ki te kōrero kia ako tēnei o āu tamaiti. Ki tō tipuranga i roto i tēnei Te Ao Haka.

    Kua roa nei ahau ē mātakitaki ana ia koe, ē Mīharo atu ana kia koe. He maungā nui koe.

    Nō Te Ao Haka.Te ao ē pārekareka ana ki au, nōreira ko tāua tēnei me taku waimarie.

    Nōreira i mua i tā taua ruku atu ki tēnei wānanga, ki ēnei kōrero. Ā tēna pēpehatia mai koe.

    It’s fortunate that we’re able to sit together and talk and learn. Let’s get into your upbringing in the world of haka. I have been observing and admiring you for a long time. You’re a lofty mountain in the haka world, which is the lifestyle I enjoy. Let’s get into it. How fortunate I am! Before we dive any deeper, please explain where you come from. 

    Kō Te Kāhautu Maxwell taku ingoā. Kō Te Whakatohea te iwi, mē ōku iwi kārangaranga.

    Engari nā āku maunga ahau i whakaruruhau. Nā aku awa ahau i Whāinu. Nā waku papatipu ahau i whakatipu, nō roto mai i te rohe Te Whakatohea.

    Kō Muriwai te Tīpuna.

    Kō Tū tāmore te tangatā.

    Kō Mātātua te waka.

    Kō Te Whakatohea te iwi.

    My name is Te Kāhautu Maxwell. My tribe is Te Whakatōhea. 

    I have other affiliations as well.

    My mountains have sheltered me. My rivers have given me water to drink. I was raised by Waka Papatipu in the Te Whakatōhea region.

    Muriwai is the ancestor.

    Tūtāmore is the chief.

    Mātaatua is the canoe.

    Te Whakatōhea is the tribe.

    He ponongā ahau nā Te Whakatohea.

    He kaimahi ahau nā Te Whakatohea.

    He tere pēke ahau nā Te Whakatohea.

    A nōreira i runga i ēra kōrero. Kā arohatia ā Te Whakatohea e ahau. Kā kanohitia ā Te Whakatohea e ahau. Mē taku tūmanakō kā arohatia e ahau e taku Te Whakatohea. A nōreira tēna tātou i tēnei ata.

    I am at the beck and call of Te Whakatōhea.

     

     

    Therefore, on that note. I love and represent Te Whakatōhea. And I hope I am loved by Te Whakatōhea in return. Greetings everyone.

    Ngā mihi rā i ēna kupu ātaahua.

    Ātaahua, heoi anō kia hoki tō mahara ki te wā e tipu nei koe, e tamariki tonu ana koe. E aha ngā whēakoranga, he aha ngā kitengā, he aha ngā whāwhāranga ia koe e pakeke haere mai ana i roto i te ao Haka haka ō Te Whakatohea.

    Thank you for those beautiful words.

    I’d like you to think back to when you were growing up, when you were younger. What were your experiences? What did you observe? What did you explore growing up in the world of kapa haka within Te Whakatōhea?

    A i ēra wā ko te Māori Club.

    Ko te Māori Club tēnei mea e karangatia nei ko te Kapa Haka i ēnei rā “Māori Club”. Kō taku tuakanā a Te Kēpa, i roto ia i te Karapū a taku kuia. A Kā Mākewhara nee Kēti, a te tamāhine ā Hori Kēti. I roto o ngā Pōtiki i kōnei.

    Koina taku mahara i au e tamariki ana, tamariki tamariki ana.

    In those times, it was called Māori Club.

    What we call kapa haka today was called Māori Club.

    My older brother, Te Kēpa, was in my grandmother's club.

     

    She was Kā Mākewhara (nee Kēti), daughter of Hōri Kēti. They were in Ngā Pōtiki who were based here. That’s what I recall when I was younger.

    Wēra toa, a ko Rāwinia, a ko te tungāne ō taku Kuia ā Ben Gauge, ā Te nehu Moana. Charlie Walker, me tāna wahine a Phoebe Walker, Daisy Waterson, rātou. Koirā taku mahara ki te Kapa Haka. Kā hoki mai taku tuakana i ngā parakatihi. Parakatihi rātou ki Pākowhai.

    Anā koinā taku mahara, i tau taku kuia ki te Kapa Haka. Ki ahau anō i tau taku tuakana ki te kapa haka.

    The champions then were Rāwinia, my grandmother’s brother Ben Gauge and Te Nehu Moana. There was Charlie Walker and his wife Phoebe Walker, Daisy Waterson and others. Those are my memories of kapa haka.

    My older brother would return from practice.

    They practiced at Pākōwhai.

    I recall my grandmother was a skilled performer. 

    My older brother was also an excellent performer.

    Muri mai i tēra, ka tau au ki Ashbrook School.

    Te wā ia mātou te ingoa o te kura rā ko Pungarehuwai. Nā taku Koroua Te Wiremu i whakaingoa, whakamāori i te ingoa Ashbrook Pungarehu. 

    Wai, Brook, Awa ae.

    Wā mātou waiata katoā.

    (Ka waiata)

    Ināianei mea tia te ingoā tūturu o te whenua kō Papa Te Whai. Ana ko te Māori Club tonu tēra.

    Later on, I attended Ashbrook School. 

    When I was there, the school was called Pungarehuwai. It was named by my grandfather, Te Wīremu. He translated the name Ashbrook into Māori - Pungarehu.

     

    Wai came from brook, which is a river.

    It appeared in all of our songs.

    (Sings)

    Now it carries the original name of the land, which is Papatewhai. That’s the Māori Club.

    Ko taku tuakana a Karaitiana, a Son, a Chris i roto i te Delamere Cup. Kō mātou ē takoto ana, ē mātakitaki atu ana I ngā tuākana ia Susan Mītai mā, ia Thomas Mītai mā. I roto i te Māori Club ō Pungarehuwai. Anā hei wēra wā, kā tū tē Novis i wēra wā. Anā i tē atā, i tē rā o te Parāire.

    Anā kua tu ngā pākeke hei te pō, anā ka tūtuki te kaupapa. Kō ngā toa i ēra wā kō Pungarehuwai i raro ia to mātou aunty Tira.

    My older brothers, Karaitiana, Son and Chris were all in the Delamere Cup.

    We would watch Susan Mītai, Thomas Mītai and others. They were in the Pungarehuwai Māori Club.

    In those days, they held a novis section on Friday morning.

     

    The seniors performed in the evening, which concluded the event. The champs in those days were Pungarehuwai, who were tutored by Aunty Tira.

    Koirā inā kē te nui ō tēna wahine, Ngati Porou.

    Tira Hoira i moe ia, auē, to mātou Pāpā nō Ngai Tai. Te pāpā ō Moe, mōea ia aunty Jan.

    Anā koia me Uncle Ben, Pīki tangata a uncle Ben Gage. Kā tai mai tāna Taraka Kaunihera Opotiki council truck. Koia te Dog pound officer pea. Anā puta mai ia i te, i tāna taraka.

    Anā te taiapa ō te kura, kā Tāwhai noa ia.

    She was a big lady from Ngāti Porou. She was Tira Hoira, she married our uncle from Ngāi Tai.

    Moe’s father, who married Aunty Jan.

    There was also Uncle Ben. Uncle Ben Gauge, he was a huge man. His truck would pull up. It was a Ōpōtiki Council truck. He was the dog pound officer. He would hop out of his truck and make his way around the fence of the school.

    Kāre ia i kuhu mā te kēti, arā ke mātou e hoihoi anā i roto i te Kapa Haka. Ko to mātou aunty, Aunty Tira, kei te, kei te wairangi i te mahi haututu a te Tamariki e kore whakarongo anō mātou ki a ia. Kā tae mai te korōua.

    Ko te whakamatakū tēra.

    Māmā noa iho ki a ia ki te kihikihi ia mātou tau.

    Kāre he, i wēra wā he pai ki te patu tamariki.

    He never came through the front gate. We would be there making a racket in kapa haka. Aunty Tira would be going mad because of our mischief behavior, we never listened to her.

    Then the old man would appear.

    We were terrified of him.

    He had no problems in booting us up the arse.

    There were no issues in hitting children in those days.

    Kāre pēnei i ēnei rā, kā haria koe, kā hāmenetia koe i roto i te koti. Nōreira koirā taku mahara ia au e tamariki anā. Ki tēnei mea ko te tapu, i te mea ko ngā kuia pēnei ia Grace Maxwell, te mama ō te Tawhiro. Hē kuia Kōhetehete katoa tera.

    A Ka, kuia Kōhetehete katoā wēra, ēngari ko ngā toa o te Delamere Cup i tēra wā. Kō Pungarehuwai, kō Waioeka, ko Hato Hōhepa Saint Joseph's.

    Not like today, you’d be taken to court and charged. Those are the things I recall from when I was young. Tapu was real then because you had elderly women like Grace Maxwell around, Tawhiro’s mother.

    Those elderly women would scold us.

    Kā would also scold us. They were the Delamere Cup champions in those days. There was Pungarehuwai, Waioeka and St. Joseph's.

    I te mea kō Nancy Peka, ka haere katoā ngā Gages, ngā wēra whanau ō Māori town ki tēra kura. Anā ko te Kuia rā a Tira me Uncle Ben te whakaako ia Pungarehuwai. Anā kōwai atu hoki, ngā mea o roto ia Ngāti Ira ki te Whakaako ia rātou, a mē Ōmāio. I wēra wā ko ngā kura ō Te Whanau a Apanui kāre kau hē Rakuraku.

     

     

    Kō mātou ngā mea o te tāone i mahi rakuraku engari ko rātou kāre kau he rakuraku.

    Because Nancy Peka and the Gages, the families from Māori town all attended that school. And the old lady Tira and Uncle Ben tutored Pungarehuwai. Who else was there? There were those from Ngāti Ira who were tutoring and Ōmāio. In those days, the Te Whānau-a-Apanui schools didn’t have a guitar. 

     

     

    Us townies used a guitar; they didn’t have a guitar.

    I ahau i te whakataetae o te Delamere Cup, Kāre kau he rakuraku. Kā wini ia rātou, kā wini ia mātou.

    Ko ngā poi i ēra wā i ngā Kapa haka o te Kaha,

    Ko te Raupō tonu.

    Pēnei ahau he brown paper kē, ēngari kō te raupo kē. Nō muri ke mai, ka whakapākeha te poi. Anā kā mea tia ko te Brown paper.

    Kia rite tonū ki te Raupō, kātahi kā huri ki te Plastic.

    When I competed in the Delamere Cup, there was no guitar. They would win and then we would win consecutively.

    The poi in those days in the Te Kaha groups were made of raupō.

     

    I thought it was brown paper, but it was actually raupō. It wasn't until later that plastic poi were used. Brown paper was used to resemble raupō before we started using plastic.

    Kātahi kā huri ki te māwhero, kā mea tia te Pepā whero. Koirā taku maharā, ko te Kareti ō Ōpotiki te kura toa. I ēra wā mē Te Whanau a Apanui.

    Kō Mana Pirihi mā, kō taku tuakana a Te Kepa mā.

    A 1970 South Auckland festival.

    They were pink too, we used red paper. That’s what I recall, Ōpōtiki College were the champs in those days, alongside Te Whānau-a-Apanui.

    There was Mana Pirihi, my older brother, Te Kēpa and others.

    In 1970, there was a South Auckland festival.

    I tēra wā mai Te Kauwhata, ki Te Kaha ki Tongariro.

    Koirā te Rohe.

    The region extended from Te Kauwhata to Te Kaha, all the way through to Tongariro.

    Wī pīki rohe tonu.

    What a huge region!

    Pīki Rohe. Kā wini ia Te Whanau a Apanui te mea tuatahi, kā tuarua ā Ōpotiki, anā kā tuatoru kō Rotorua.

    It was a huge region. Te Whānau-a-Apanui won the first competition. Ōpōtiki came second and Rotorua placed third.

    Tē mea tuarua 1972 tū ki roto ō Kimiora.

    Koirā te tau i whakatūwheratia ai ā Kimiora, ka tū ai te ka tu te South Auckland Festival ki reirā.

    In 1972, the second competition was held in Kimiora. Kimiora was officially opened that year and the South Auckland Festival was held there.

    Anā ka wini kō Ōpotiki mai Tawhiti. Opotiki College arohamai, Anā tuarua koō te Whanau a Apanui. Tuatoru ko Huntly College, ko Tuku Morgan te Kaitātaki. Koirā aku tūmanakotanga i ēra wā.

    And ko uncle Ben Gauge te whakaako ia Te Whanau a Apanui mē Opotiki i te wā kotahi.

    Ōpōtiki College won and Te Whānau-a-Apanui placed second.

    Huntly College came third. Tuku Morgan was the leader. That was my passion at the time.

    Uncle Ben Gauge was tutoring both Te Whānau-a-Apanui and Ōpōtiki at the same time.

    I roto i te whare paku tonu ai, e ono peā taku tau ēra i tēra wā. Kā noho au i roto i te whare i Turangawaewae e noho nā a Opotiki College, me Te whanau a Apanui area school ki Parehaukraki.

    I was only young then; I might have been six years old.

    I stayed in the house at Tūrangawaewae marae where Ōpōtiki College and the Te Whānau-a-Apanui area school were staying, in Parehauraki.

    Kō Parehauraki rāua tahi i roto i te whare kotahi. Kāa kākahutia e Te Whanau a Apanui kei reira te koroua e karakia anā a Ben Gage. Ka kākahutia e Ōpotiki kei reirā ia e Karakia ana ae.

    Koiā te, i ngā kapa e rua. Kā tuatahi, heoi anō koinā anā ka uru au i roto ēra ki roto i te Kāreti.

    Ā kō Dan Rangi tētahi ō mātou kaiako.

    Te tama ā Rawinia, auntie ō Nāpo.

    Kō Dan, first cousins rāua.

    Both groups stayed in the same house, in Parehauraki. Te Whānau-a-Apanui were getting changed while the old man, Ben Gauge was performing karakia. When Ōpōtiki were getting changed, he was there performing karakia.

    Those were the two teams. They won. I entered that team when I attended college.

    Dan Rangi was one of our tutors. Rāwinia’s son, she was an aunty to Ngāpō. He and Dan were first cousins.

    Kōtahi noa tāna.

    He only had one.

    Rawinia rangi nera?

    Rāwinia Rangi?

    Yeah Rangi.

    Yeah Wehi.

    Yeh, Rangi.

    Yeh, Wehi.

    Kōtahi noa tāna ringaringa, engari tau ki te Haka.

    Tana whanau tau ki te waiata peēnei anoō i teēnei rāa tau ki te waiata. 

    Anā tāea ai ē ia te tiki mai tē Pungarehu.

    Te ash oō te Hikareti mā tāna ringaringa, kare kau e pakaru i te mea pēnei noa wāna pona me ka pēnei nā. Engari tēna koroua, ka kurua mātou ki te rākau.

    Ka whiua kia mātou, i rungā mātou i te atāmira i te kāreti.

    He only had one arm, but he was a skilled haka performer. 

     

    His family were great singers, they still are today.

     

    He could pick up the ash of a cigarette without breaking it because his elbow was only small like this.

    The old man would strike us with a stick.

     

    He’d throw it at us while we were on stage at college.

    Kei raro ia, mōhio koe ki tēra atāmira.

    Kā kurua he rākau kia mātou, kā kangakanga kia mātou. Kāre he kangakanga engari i roto i te reo māori, tau tēra Koroua ki te haka. Nāna te Kapa Haka ō Ngāti Ira i ēra wā i whakatuwherā ia Whiripare.

     

    Mō Ngāti Ira te kapa haka, Ngāti Ira.

    Te Kapa Haka o tēra wā, i muri mai o Waioeka ko Ngāti Ira, tēra Kapa Haka.

    He’d be below, you know the stage.

    He’d throw a stick at us and curse us.

    He would curse in Māori.

    He was a skilled haka performer.

    He established the Ngāti Ira haka group at the time.

     

     

    The haka group at the time was for Ngāti Ira. The Ngāti Ira haka group came after Waioeka.

    Nōreira koinei ngā ako.

    Mrs.Mordeson, Josie Mordeson. Kā tū ia i mua i ngā wāhine kā “Wahine mā me heu ō koutou kēkē.” te weriweri hoki, kua mea ia.

     

    Kāre te kuia ra i te kōrero pākeha, māori, kā ki mai “Ko wai mā kei te hiahia kite i ērā huruhuru weriweri?” 

    Engari kei te ako ia mātou kia tau i ō mātou kākahu.

    Koia.

    These are the things I learnt.

    Mrs. Mordeson, Josie Mordeson. She would stand in front of the women, “Ladies, you need to shave your armpits”. Yuck.

     

     

     

    The old lady didn’t speak Māori. She’d say, “Who wants to look at those hairy monsters”?  

     

    She taught us how to perfect our uniforms.

    Kia mā tonū nēra?

    So, they were tidy?

    Kia mā tonu, kia Rangatira tonū. Koirā ngā ako, ka kuhu au ki roto o Waioeka, i au tonu i te Hāikura. Pai wēra mahi i te kura, ko ngā hoa ka tūtaki mōhio koe ki ō hoariri i te Delamere Cup.

    Mōhio koe ki o hoa ngā whakawhanaungā.

    Keep them tidy and revered. Those are the things I learnt. I joined Waioeka when I was still in high school. I enjoyed that while I was at school, you’d meet friends and come to know who your enemies were in the Delamere Cup.

    You’d come to know your friends, who were your relations.

    Kua moe ngā Kaiwhakawā, pēra ia Johnny Coleman. Tēra koroua a Johnny Coleman kua moe ke, kua korōua kē nēra. Kei te whakawā ia i te Delamere Cup, kei te ngōngoro te koroua, ka aho ake kua mutu kē.

    The judges would fall asleep, the likes of Johnny Coleman.

    The old man, Johnny Coleman would fall asleep, he was old at the time. He’d be snoring while he was judging the Delamere Cup, when he woke up it was all over. 

    I ēra kei rēira ngā kaiako, ngā kaiwhakawā kei te kaipaipa. Ēra wā kaipaipa katoā, i roto i te hōro. 

     

    Ko ngā tamariki kei te mahi Haka haka, arā kē mea.

     

    Ko mātou tonū te kai paipa.

    Ko mātou tonū te kai paipa, whanako i ngā paipa.

    The teachers and judges would be smoking, everyone smoked in those days, in the hall. While the students were performing.

     

    While the students were performing.

     

     

    We also smoked.

    We’d steal smokes.

    Nōreira kā pakeke mai. Kā pakeke mai koe kā uru atu koe ki roto i ngā rārangi ō Waioeka?

    So, when you grew older, you joined Waioeka?

    Ae, engari i mua o tēra kō ngāa mahi Kāreti.

    Kā hoahoa koe ki ngā mea ō Te Arawa, ia Warwick Morehu a, ia Wēteni mā, ia Timi te Pō mā.

    Yes, but before that I performed at college and befriended the Te Arawa lot, there was Warwick Mōrehu, Wētini, Timitepō and others.

    I te mea koirā te whānuitanga o te Rohengā nē?

    Is that because the region extended that far?

    Rotorua lake, I te mea ko tō mātou auntie Mate, Mate koirā tētahi o wā mātou tino kaiako o mātou ko Mate Rēweti, i mua ia Tom Rēweti nō Ngati Ranginui.

    Anā kō Mate nō Ngāti Porou, nō Tikitiki.

     

    Kō taku mōhio anō te whānau Dewes, rawe mō te waiata. Kō ia tonu tētahi o ngā kaiako i te wā i wini a Ōpotiki College.

     

    Kō ia taku kaiakō tuatahi i Puangarehuwai, i Ashbrook, kua mate. Ako ia mātou “Karanga Aotearoa e”.

     

     

    Koirā taku Waiata-a-ringa tuatahi i te Whakataetae.

    “E nga iwi o te Motu e” 

    I wēra wa ka mahi a, ē hara i te himene, e hara i te waiata tira engari choral i ēra wā, ko tā mātou choral Whakāria mai. 

    I mahi titi tōrea i ēra wā ngā tamariki, mōhio katoā mātou ki te mahi Titi Tōrea i te hopu i ngā mea, Coordination ne.

    As far as Lake Rotorua. Aunty Mate was one of our favourite tutors, Mate Rēweti. She married Tom Rēweti from Ngāti Ranginui. 

     

    Mate was from Ngāti Porou, from Tikitiki. 

    I think she was from the Dewes family. She was an excellent singer. She was one of the teachers when Ōpōtiki College won.

     

    She was my first tutor at Pungarehuwau, at Ashbrook, she’s since passed. “She taught us, Karanga Aotearoa e”.

     

    That was my first action song in a competition.

    “E ngā iwi o te Motu e”.

    In those days, we didn’t call it a hīmene or a waiata tira, instead we called it the choral. Whakaaria mai was our choral.

    We performed the titi tōrea. We all knew how to do the titi tōrea, how to catch them, we had coordination.

    Kā noho te tītī tōrea i roto i te wāhangā mōtuhakē?

    Was tītī tōrea a compulsory item?

    Motuhakē mō te Delamere Cup, mo te Novis. Nāwai rā kā mutu ia mātou i te kura, Kāa teā kupu o Te Wharehuia ma, “Kā Māro Mahuika” innovative.

    Kā nui te whiu o tē rākau, wēra mea i te wā ia mātou pēnei noa te, (Ka waiata me te whakaatu mahi-a-ringa)

    Kei konā mātou e kautē hāere ana, “Tahi, rua, toru, wha, e rua,ki waho, ki roto”. Āe, wēra mea.

    Kua kore tēna i kōnei ināianei, kua kore tēra tūmomo āhuatanga.

    Pai pēna kaā whakahokia mai.

    Ā kō Maraenui pea te kura kei te mau tonū i ētahi wā, ahakoa he whakangāhau.

    Kō Te Kura Mana Māori ō Maraenui tonū kei te pūpuri i tēra āhuatanga.

    Engari he tāonga tēra mai rāno, tē Titi Tōrea.

    Anā kā mutu tēra ki te taka I a koe i tō rākau kā tino whakamā koe nēra.

    Kei reirā ngā tamariki e, kei te rere ana tō rākau kei reira ngā tamariki e tārai ana ki te hopu ngā rākau kā whakahokia mai.

    I rēira i ako mātou i tēnei mea ko te whakataetae.

    Ko te Delamere Cup, a te Kōhanga o te Kapa haka i roto.

    It was in the Delamere Cup in the Novis section. 

    Eventually I left school,

    We used weaponry a lot in those days, like (Sings and demonstrates actions)

    We would count, “One, two, three, four, two, out, in.”

    You rarely see it now; it isn’t practiced anymore.

    It would be good if it was revived.

    Maraenui School still practices it sometimes, although it’s just for entertainment.

    Te Kura Mana Māori o Maraenui still hold onto those things.

     

    The titi tōrea is a traditional practice. If you dropped your stick, you’d be very embarrassed.

     

    Your stick would be flying while the students are there trying to catch it and bring it back.

     

    The Delamere Cup is where we learnt about competing, it was the start of kapa haka.

    Kōrero mai he aha ngā kōrero mōo te Delamere Cup?

    Tell us about the Delamere Cup.

    Te Delamere Cup, tāonga nui tēnei ō kōnei. Tāku mōhio nō te, kei te hē pea?

    Engari 1956 pea 1958 tēra takiwā, kā kī ētahi 1960.

    Engari kite au i tētahi whakāhua kō Pungarehuwai kei roto te mea tuatahi. kō rāua ko Kutarere. Ngā kura tuarua, tuatahi i timata ai te whakataetae ra.

    He kapu tēra tawhito, koia pea tetahi o ngā whakataetae, kaumātua ō ngā whakataetae katoā o te motu. Taku whakapai ko te mea pakeke ake i tēra kō te Tamararo. 

    Engari nō muri kē mai anā ko te Delamere cup.

    Koia te Kōhanga mō ngā kura ō Te Whanau a Apanui, Ngai Tai, Whakatohea, a Te Waimana Kāku.

     

     

    Ētahi tāima a uru mai a Murupara i roto i te whakataetae.

    The Delamere Cup is the big trophy here. To my knowledge, I may be wrong, it started in 1956 or 1958, some say 1960.

    I’ve seen a photo with Pungarehuwai in the first competition, alongside Kutarere.

    The two secondary schools that started the competition.

    It’s an old trophy, it’s one of the oldest competitions in the country.

    I think Tamararo is the oldest.

    The Delamere Cup follows that.

    It is the starting point of kapa haka within Te Whānau-a-Apanui, Ngāi Tai, Te Whakatōhea and Te Waimana Kāku.

     

    Murupara would join the competition from time to time.

    Kia Ora

    Thank you.

    Ae. Ā engari o roto ia Mataatua koirā te whakataetae kaumātua ō te katoā.

    Koinā pea e pai ai tēnei kāinga ki te Kapa Haka.

    I mua noa atu i tēra tau te iwi ki te Kapa Haka. 

     

    Mea mai a Nanny Hiria, i mua rā kō te Pou Tāpita i waho nei. Wareware i au i te Kapu, engari e mea ana kua tū te Kāwana Tianara i runga i ngā tepe o te Pou Tāpita tāwhito.

    Victorian, pēnei te whare Kōti i roto o Hamutana.

    Pēra te āhua, pēra i te wharetāonga nei.

    Anā ka haramai ko te whakaeke mai, kā hikoi haere mai te tiriti nei.

    It’s the oldest competition within Mātaatua. 

     

    Perhaps that is why this area is good at kapa haka.

    Prior to that, the people were skilled at kapa haka.

    Nanny Hiria said, Pou Tāpita was out here.

    I forgot the cup, but the Governor General stood on the old post office steps.

     

    It was Victorian, like the courthouse in Hamilton. It was like that, similar to a museum.

    They would come, they would walk on, walking this street.

    Koirā te roa mō te whakaeke, kā tae atu ki te papa Whutupōro. Kei rēira te ātamira, kā whakaeke.

    Engari kua timata te whakaeke i konei.

     

    Kua hipa atu i te Governor general, taku mōhio e tū ana. Kā mea mai ko te korōua rā ā Te Wehi me tāna Kapa Haka. Kō te haere a Te Wehi i waho nei.

     Ka mea mai a ia me a, Te Haukari Akurangi, ngā Toa ki te mau Taiaha. Engari kō Te Wehi e haere atu ana i raro rā ki te kōrero atu ki te kūia nei.

     

    Kua whiu i tāna Taiaha ki runga.

    Ka mahi anā mahi, kāa tikina mai.

    Tāna haramai i waho nei, anā kā whakeke rātou i runga i te atāmira kā rere a Te Wehi me tāna taiaha, kua Peruperu tāna.

    That was how long the walk on was before arriving at the rugby field. The stage was there, so they walked on.

    But the walk on began here. 

     

    They’d pass the Governor General, who was standing, to my knowledge. That is what the kōroua Te Wehi and his kapa said.

    Te Wehi would go out here. 

    It was said that he and Te Haukari Akurangi were the champions when it came to wielding the taiaha. Te Wehi would go down and speak to the elderly woman.

     

    He would brandish his taiaha up there, doing his thing, it was accepted. He would come out here and they would ascend the stage, Te Wehi would float about with his taiaha, then he’d perform the peruperu.

    Koirā, nōreira mai nō mua atu ēngari ko te Delamere Cup, te whakataetae Kaumātua o te katoā o roto mai o Mataatua i ēnei rā. 

     

    Koiā te Kōhanga, koinā pea e pakari nei na Kapa Haka o tēnei moka. I te mea kei kōnei te whakapapa kia Waioeka, kia Ngā pōtiki. Wēra kapa haka kaumātua, Ngā Pōtiki, Waioeka, Ngāti Ira, Te Whakatohea, wēra kapa haka.

     

    Nōreira i au i te kura, ka kuhu au ki roto.

    Ka waea mai a Aunty Nan, Nan Peka ki au tētahi ata kura.

    So, it all began much earlier but the Delamere Cup is the oldest competition today in the Mātaatua region.

     

    That’s where it all began and perhaps that’s why the kapa haka in this region are strong. Because of the connections to Waioeka and Ngā Pōtiki. Those main haka groups, there’s Ngā Pōtiki, Waioeka, Ngāti Ira and Te Whakatōhea.

     

    When I was at school, I joined.

    Aunty Nan, that’s Aunty Nan Peka, rang me one morning at school.

    I te whakarite ahau te haere au ki te kura tuarua, ko tāku whakapai I te reanga wha ahau. Ka wāea mai te kuia nei kia kuhu atu au. I te mea haramai mātou te mātakitaki i ngā konohete o Waioeka i ēra wā.

     

    He Kapa Haka, haere ki te mahi kohikohi moni mo ngā kaupapa. 

     

    Ana kua moe kē a Ngā Pōtiki i ēra wā, ko rātou te Taumata. 

    Noreira tūmanakotia atu kia uru atu ki roto o tēra Kapa Haka.

    Mōhio au ka kuhu atu au ki tēra Kapa Haka.

    Mahara au i te wā i wini a Karauria Eruiti, Uncle Claude Edwards.

    I was getting ready to go to high school, I might have been in 4th Form. The old lady rang me and asked me to join. We would go and watch the Waioeka concerts in those days.

     

    Kapa haka at the time was about fundraising for various events.

     

    Ngā Pōtiki wasn’t performing anymore, they were the top.

    I was hoping I might join that group.

     

    I knew I’d join that group. I remember when Uncle Claude Edwards, Uncle Karauria Eruiti won.

    Wini ā ia te te Pāmu Māori o Aotearoa, Te Ahuwhenua Cup.

    Kā whakawhiwhia ki a ia ki runga o Maro Mutu.

    E te Minitā Māori i tēra wā kō Duncan MacIntyre.

    Tēna pīki kapu.

    Kō Waioeka te Kapa haka whakapōhiri i te Minita, pōhiri i te kapu.

    He won the NZ Māori Farmer award, the Te Ahuwhenua Cup.

     

    He received it at Maro Mutu. The Minister of Māori Affairs at the time was Duncan Macintyre.

    It was a big prize.

    Waioeka welcomed the Minister and the cup.

    Kā mahara au pakupaku ana au, kei te parakatihi rātou. Pēra te nui o ngā kapa haka i ēra wā.

    Kō te Kapa haka katoā kei roto i te wharenui e parakatihi ana. 

    Kāre pēnei ia tātou me pātiki rawa, me whīra, whīira whutupōro rawa.

     

    Nā te nui o te tangata, ko rātou e parakatihi ana.

    Mahara au e mau ana I o rātou Korowai.

    He mā, ko ngāhuruhuru, ngā wūru he whero he pango, taku kite atu.

    Kei reira kei te whātaretare i te, te whatitoka o Tū Tamore e mākitaki ana i ngā pakeke.

    I remember, I was very young, they were practicing.

    That’s how many haka groups there were back then.

    The whole haka group was in the dining hall practicing. It wasn't like today where we needed a paddock or rugby field.

     

    Because there’re so many people, they were practicing.

    I remember they were wearing their cloaks.

    The feathers were white, the wool was red and black.

    I was there peering through the door of Tū Tāmore watching the elders.

    1976, Nōreira pea 10 pea taku tau i teera waa.

    E whātaretare atu ana, e mātakitaki ana.

    Te reka o te waiata, te kaha o te waiata i te mea ko mātou i tēra wā, 10 kua whakataetae kē ahau i roto i te Delamere Cup, i roto i te Novis te Delamere.

    Kei reirā ē moemoeatia atu rā, “Pirangi au te uru atu ki roto i tēra Kapa haka”.

     

    Ana ka pōhiritia, kā tukuna te kapu ki te Korōua rā kia Karauria. Ko rātou kei te whakangāhau.

    Tēra rā kā hoatu e te Kāwanatanga te Haki, he Haki hou Upoko Hapa.

     

    Ko, anā mahara au te kuia rā a Hēni e whakararangi ana i te taha o te Pou Haki a Waioeka, ana ka hiki te haki.

    It was 1976, so I might have been about 10 then. Watching as I peered through the door.

    The singing was strong and sweet. Because I was only 10, when we competed in the Novis section of the Delamere Cup.

     

    I dreamed about joining that group.

     

    I was welcomed to join, the old man Karauria was given the cup, they were entertaining.

    The Government gave the flag…

    I recall the old lady Hēni lining everyone up next to the Waioeka flagpole and they raised the flag.

    Te Haki nui rā, kei reira tonu?

    The big flag that’s still there?

    Tēra wā 1976 pea tēra.

    Ko rātou e rārangi ana ki te taha o te wharenui engari e angā atu ana ki te pou haki.

     

    Ko te kuia rā e mea whakarārangi ana i ngā, wāna tāngata. Ko Te Oke mā, e whakarārangi ana ia rātou.

     

     

    Ka hiki te hāki, a te Upoko Hapa. Āna kei rēira rātou e waiata-ā-ringa

    That was in 1976.

    They lined up next to the meeting house facing the flagpole.

     

    The old lady was lining her group up.

    Te Oke and others were lining themselves up.

     

    The Te Upoko Haka flag was raised, and they performed the action song.

    Atāhua.

    Stunning.

    Koinā i Te Ahuwhenua Cup, wēra tikanga i kite au.

     

     

    Ko te kaiwero i tēra wā kō Blossom Paruru te pāpā o Uncle Robyn. Tau ia ki te Maurākau.

    Anā koirā ka kuhu atu au ki roto i te, te Kapa Haka o Waioeka. Nui-a-Kiwa i tēra wā. I te mea i hurihia te ingoa e Aunty Jane Heni me Aunty Nan kia Nui-a-Kiwa kia kuhu mai ko te katoa.

     

    I te mea i ēra wā kua parakatihi rātou me te Whare wānanga o Waikato. Kua mahi moni rātou mo Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato.

     

    Ki te tuku ia Te Whare wānanga o Waikato ki tāwāhi. Tū ngā Kōnehete ki roto o Founders theatre te wā e hau ana.

    That was for the Te Ahuwhenua Cup, where I saw those practices.

     

    Blossom Paruru was the kaiwero then, Uncle Robyn’s father.

    He knew how to brandish a weapon. 

    So, I joined Waioeka. They were known as Waioeka-nui-a-Kiwa then. Aunty Jane Hēni and Aunty Nan changed the name to Waioeka-nui-a-Kiwa to include everyone.

     

    They practiced with Waikato University then.

     

     

    They would fundraise for the University of Waikato.

    So, that the University of Waikato could travel overseas.

    The concerts would take place in the Founders Theatre when it was brand new.

    Me Taniwharau, tino piri i te mea ko Waioeka haere ai ki te Koroneihana.

    Ana kua mahi mē te Whare wānanga me Taniwharau. Anā i era wā kua whakawhitiwhiti, kua kuhu mai ngā mea o Taniwharau ki roto o Waioeka. 

     

    Ana ko ngā Herewini ēra o tēra, te tungāne o te māma o Ora Kihi mā. A Haupae, Haupae Herewini me tāna wahine a Puggie. 

    Kaare au mōhio kō wai te ingoa, Marian pea te ingoa a Pug. A kā noho wā rāua tamariki i kōnei, kura ai me mātou ki te Kāreti o Opotiki. A Donella mā, me wāna teina.

    Nōreira koira tēna.

    Noreira ka kuhu atu au i tēra wā ko Waioeka Nui-a-Kiwa i roto tētahi tangata ko Achilles.

    Taniwharau too, they were close because Waioeka would attend the Coronation.

    So, they worked together with Waikato University and Taniwharau. In those days, they would swap around, ones from Taniwharau would join Waioeka.

     

    The Herewini family were some, Orakihi’s mum’s brother was one. Haupae Herewini and his wife Puggie. I don’t know Pug’s name; it might have been Marian. Their children stayed here and went to school with us at Ōpōtiki College. Donella and her younger sisters.

     

    So that’s that.

    When I joined Waioeka-nui-a-Kiwa, there was a man by the name of Achilles in the group.

    Pai mo te kōrero māori, pai mo te Haka engari āhua Hainamana nei tāna āhua, ia mātou i te mea i te kura mātou ahua rerekē tāna āhua, engari tau ki tāna.

    Pātaihia tāna ingoa i tētahi rangi “Kōwai to ingoa?”

    “Ko Achilles Chonga Fong”

    Fong a Chong.

    Kā kata mātou ngā tamariki māori,” He hainamana koe?

     

    Engari tau ki te hāwhe Māori, hāwhe hainamana pea.

     

    Achillies Fonga Chong ko ia te kaiako māori i Western Springs.

    Nāna te kaupapa, ko taku mōhio i huri ko Waiorea.

    He was versed in Māori and good at haka, but he looked Chinese, this is when we were at school, he looked a little different, but he was good at haka.

    One day, we asked him, “What’s your name?”

    “My name is Achilles Chonga Fong.”


    Us Māori kids cracked up laughing, “Are you Chinese?”

     

    But he must have been half Māori, half Chinese.

     

    Achilles Chonga Fong, he was the Māori teacher at Western Springs.

    I believe he instigated the change to Waiorea.

    Kia ora.

    Nōreira he aha te momo tāera tū o tēra Kapa?

    Wow.

    What is their style of performance?

    O Waioeka?

     

     

    Waioeka.

    Of Waioeka?

     

     

    Yes, Waioeka.

    Whakamataku. 

     

    I te mea kua mōhio kē mātou ki wēra tāera ako, ko Uncle Ben mā.

    Māmā nōa ki te riri, ki te whakamatakū i te tangata aye?

    Fearsome.

     

    We were already familiar with that style of learning with Uncle Ben and others.

    We have no qualms at showing anger towards or scaring others, aye?

    I haere ia ki te pakanga

    Kōuru tāngata, ko tāna reo te reo o Uncle Ben, kā tū o makawē nē, tāna tātaki i te haka.

     

    Ka whakanoho ia mātou ia mātou e tamariki ana, ko te mea potopoto o te Kapa Haka, ko ia ka tau ki raro.

    Me tau katoa mātou na mea āhua tōrea kia rite ki te hahaka o te mea pakupaku.

     

     

    Ko Pundi Kaki tētahi, Mark Kaki tangata potopoto.

    A tuku i a ia ki raro.

    Ko mātou katoua me tau pēra rawa te, ka haramai a Uncle Ben mea tia te tūru ki raro ia mātou tau ka tangohia me noho pēra.

    Matakū noa mātou ki te tū ki runga, ka kī ki a mātou tau, ka patua mātou.

    Koira te,i te tū, whaanuingā waewae, Tautaurohoroho.

     

    Kia tautau ngā raho, kia tū pēnei te Tekoteko nei engari kia tū pakari.

     

    He Haka Taparahi katoā ngā haka a Te Whakatohea?

     

    Ia mātou i te kura, te whakatūwheratanga ō Kura ki Uta, kao.

     

    I te mea i au i Pungarehuwai Uncle Ben, he Tangata mau taiaha, toa.

    Well, he went to war., he killed people. 

    The hair on your neck would stand up at the sound of Uncle Ben’s voice when he led the haka. 

     

    He would sit us down when we were young. 

    The shortest one in the haka team would assume the haka stance and everyone needed to match the shortest one’s stance.

     

    Pundi Kāki was one, Mark Kāki, he was a small man.

    He’d instruct him to go down.

    We all had to match his stance. Uncle Ben would come along and put the seat underneath us and then take it away and we had to remain in that stance.

    We were afraid to stand up, lest we be kicked in the behind or smacked.

    That was the stance, legs widespread, balls dangling.

     

    The balls should be sandling, standing like a tekoteko, and stiff.

     

    Were the haka in Te Whakatōhea all haka taparahi?

     

    When we were at school, the opening of Kura ki Uta, no.

     

    When I was at Pungarehuwai, Uncle Ben was a gun at the taiaha.

    Nā Ngākohu a ia, nā Ngākohu a ia i ako. Koirā pea ngā tauira o Ngākohu a Uncle Ben.

    Ko Uncle Hori Hata, ngā mea e mōhio au. Ko Uncle Danny pea tētahi.

     

    Engari nā Uncle Ben kō Tūterangi Gage.

    Kite au ia Tūterangi e whakatūwhera ana i te Waharoa e whiti ana.

    I te wā o te rā nehu o Uncle Monita. Wehi rawa, kare pekepeke, māro tonu.

    Mōhio koe nā te koroua nā Uncle Ben.

    Kei Uncle Danny ētahi kōrero mo Uncle Ben mō te whakatūwheratanga o te Wharekai i Whitiana waiho māna.

     

    Engari ia uncle Ben.

    Taku mahara ki ngā mahi haka pea, whakaeke pea a Pungarehuwai taku tuakana i roto, Mau Taiate.

    I te mea ia mātou i Ashbrook, i roto i to mātou Physed shed, nui ngāTaiaha e putu ana.

    Kei ngā whānau ināianei ēna punua taiaha.

     

    Noreira koira ngā ako a uncle Ben, ko ngā haka i roto o Ngā Pōtiki he mau taiaha.

    Ngā whakāhua kua kite au o taku kuia he mau Taiaha.

     

    Nōreira ia mātou i te kāreti. Te whakatūwhera ia Kura ki Uta 1981, tā mātou haka kō “Te Pūru”.

     

    Nā mea maa i ako ia mātou ki te Puru na Wharekawa mā. Te koroua a Wharekawa mā, ako ia mātou ki te Pūru.

    Ngākohu taught him. Ngākohu taught Uncle Ben, Uncle Hōri Hana, those are the ones I know and maybe Uncle Danny.

     

    Uncle Ben taught Tūterangi Gauge.

    I witnessed Tūterangi opening the waharoa in Whitianga.

    During Uncle Mōnita’s funeral. He was frightening, he didn’t leap about, he was dead stiff. You knew immediately, Uncle Ben taught him.

    Uncle Danny has a few stories about Uncle Ben and the opening of the dining hall at Whitianga, he can tell them.

     

    However, Uncle Ben.

    What I can recall about haka and whakaeke was my older brother in Pungarehuwai, he used the taiaha.

    When we were at Ashbrook, there were plenty of taiaha.

    The different families have those little taiaha now. 

     

    Those were Uncle Ben’s teachings. The haka in Ngā Pōtiki were performed with taiaha.

    The photographs I’ve seen of my grandmother, she held a taiaha.

     

    When we were at college for the opening of Kura ki Uta in 1981, our haka was Te Pūru.

     

    Wharekawa and others, Wharekawa’s grandfather and others taught us the haka Te Pūru.

    Kaua ki te wahanga tuatahi,

    (Haka)

     

    I tēra wā “E kore te Riri e tae mai nei ki kōnei i te ture o te Mate, Pukouautia koa, aha, aha, aha te riri ē”

    Not the first section.

    (Haka kupu)

     

    At that time, it was “E kore te riri e tae mai ki konei i te ture o te mate, pūkawautia koe, aha, aha, aha te riri, e.”

    Kia Ora.

    Wow.

    Koira ngā kupu ako mai ia mātou, ka hoki ano” 

    (Haka)

     

    Kāre haere ko ngā Ngirangira, ko ngā ota ki korā noa iho.

     

     

    Koira pea te mau tonu ia Ngāti Ira, i tēnei wā kāre au mōhio pēna ko ngā Ngirangira, kāre au mōhio.

    Engari koira tāku ia mātou, koira te haka pōhiri i te whakatūwheratanga o Kura ki Uta.

    Those are the words we were taught and that was repeated.

    (Performs haka)

     

    We didn’t go into the next part.

    (Performs haka)

     

    That is the way Ngāti Ira still performs it today, I’m not sure if they include the other part.

    But that’s how we performed it as the welcome haka at the opening of Kura ki Uta.

    Noreira he wewehi te tāera tū o te iwi?

    So, the tribe's stance is a fearsome one?

    Whakamatakū, ko ngā kaiako te whakamatakū.

    Ka wehe mātou ia rātou, i te mea kāre te huna o te kupu, ka pana ia koe ki waho, kāre he.

    Ki te kore koe e u, e pono, ki te takahi koe ia rātou, patua koe, Patua patua kia tangi nei koe.

    Ka haere atu ano ki ngā mātua kia rātou, ka patua ki ngā mātua, ae wēra, wēra ako. 

    Noreira koira te ako e mōhio au. I kuhu atu au ki roto o Waioeka.

     

    E pēra i te mea i te mōhio māou ki te Tautaurahoraho.

    Engari he kura anō a Waioeka, i raro ia Heni mā, i raro ia Heni. Wahine

    It’s frightening, inspired by the tutors.

    We were terrified of them. They weren't afraid to say what they thought or to kick you out.

    If you were not committed or loyal, if you disobeyed them, they would hit you, they would hit you until you cried. They would even visit the parents and hit them. It was that type of learning.

    That’s the type of learning I am familiar with. I joined Waioeka.

     

    I was already familiar with the tautauraho stance.

    However, Waioeka was another ball game under the tutelage of Hēni and others

    Wahine whakaako?

    She taught haka?

    Haka, Whakaako ia mātou ki te haka. Kāre a Uncle Ben i whakae māna ia e whakaako ki te haka, ka whawhae rāua.

    Yes, she taught us how to haka. Uncle Ben did not agree to her teaching us haka and they would squabble.

     

    Ka whakaako tonū?

    Did she continue teaching?

    Kaua ko Uncle Ben.

    Engari whakaako ia mātou.

    Wahine taikaha, engari he Wahine aroha engari wahine taikaha, taikaha. Ahakoa pēhea. Kia wini, kia wini.

    Uncle Ben, no.

    She continued teaching us. 

    She was a strict woman, empathetic too but very strict. At all costs. You must win. 

     

    Kia pēhea e rerekē ai?

    How was that different from…?

    Kia pai, kia hinga a… Koinā tāna kōrero kia mātou.

    Kia wini, kia hinga to rātou tungāne i a ia, a Ngāpo.

    In order to beat…She would tell us.

    You must win, in order to beat her cousin, Ngāpō.

    I te mea ia koro Ngāpo ia Waihirere?

    Is that because Ngāpō was instructing Waihīrere?

    A waihirere.

    Ko te koroneihana te matua.

    Kua wehe kē mai a Waioeka i te Polynesian Festival i tēra wā.

    Kāre i kuhu i roto i te Polynesian i te mea, e kii ana e mahi nanakia, he mahi kuruki nō nā te kaiwhakawā o Te Arawa. Ka wehe mai.

    Yes, Waihīrere.

    Koroneihana was the main event.

    Waioeka had already exited the Polynesian Festival at the time.

    They didn't enter the Polynesian Festival because of some deceitful deeds performed by one of the judges from Te Arawa. So, they left.

    Engari whakataetae tonu a te Koroneihana i aua wā nera?

    But the Koroneihana was still a competition then, aye?

    Aua wā, koirā te whakatetae nui kia rātou.

    Ia tau, ia tau kā parakatihi nui. Ko te Koroneihana kia wini ia rāto a Waioeka te Koroneihana.

     

    Ko rātou ki runga, ko Ngāpo ki raro. Koirā te pai i ngā wā katoa.

    Whakataetae ki to rātou tungāne kia Ngāpo.

     

    Nōreira wēra whakapapa nēra.

    Ko ngā tamariki kei roto rā ko Tangiwai mā, tēra hono.

     

    Kuhu atu au ki roto i tēra, te kuia rā

    Koirā nōa iho te mahi, all day saturday, all day sunday haka.Kāre mahi poi, kāre mahi  waiata aringa, haka, haka, haka.

     

    Kua māku katoa te papa i te werawera.

    O ae, ki ngā hāora o te ata mai te 9 pea i te ata ki te whā, toru, wha i te ata.

    Ngā rangi pēnei, kāre he kaka i te mea kua wēra koe.

    Yes. That was the main competition in their eyes.

    They would practice hard every year in the hope that Waioeka would take out the Koroneihana.

     

    In the hope that they would win and Ngāpō would lose. That was the main objective.

    They were competing against their cousin, Ngāpō.

     

    There’s those connections.

    The young ones in there at the time were Tangiwai and others and there's more connections there.

     

    So, I joined Waioeka. Gee whiz, that old lady.

    We did haka, all day Saturday and all-day Sunday. We didn't do the poi or action songs; all we did was haka.

     

    The ground was soaking wet with sweat.

    We went all hours, from nine in the morning to three or four in the morning.

    During days like this, you wouldn't be wearing clothes because of the heat.

    Nōreira nāwai rā ka huri ko koe te kaiako o te iwi?

     

    Tēna kōrero mai, i te mea iti noaiho te wā ia māua engari.

    Eventually, you became the tutor of the Iwi?

     

    Tell me about that because the time we have is short.

    1995 i tu te whakataetae tuatahi i konei, i roto i tēnei whare Mataatua. 1986 kā tū motuhake a Mataatua i konei. Ana koirā te hoki mai o Waioeka ki roto i ngā whakahaere.

    Ko rātou te kapa matāmua o Mataatua I roto i ngā mahi whakataetae, kei te haere tonu rātou ae.

    Ahakoa kāre he Polynesian Festival mahi tonu rātou i ngā mahi o ēra wā he Konohete.

    In 1995, the Mātaatua competition was held here, in this very hall. In 1986, Mātaatua stood independently here. Hence why Waioeka returned and started to participate again.

    They were the oldest group from Mātaatua when it came to competition and they’re still going today. Despite not being a part of the Polynesian Festival, they continued performing concerts.

    Nōreira ko rātou te toa o te rohe. Ka tū te, kā wehe mai a Mataatua.

    Ka heke atu a Mataatua, te tira o Mataatua, ko Turi te Kani, Kō Ben Gauge, ko Emma Rogers, ko Te Uru Mcgarvey, ko Te Rangi Puke. Ko Nan Peka, ko Josie Mortenson. Koinā pea, ki te kite ia tā Kiingi Ihaka.

    Ko Ia te hiamana o te Matatini i tēra wā, kīa wehea mai a Mataatua.

     

    Kia ora mai te Kapa haka ki roto i ngā pakeke.

    Kua tū kē te Ahurei, engari kia me a a Mataatua, i roto i te kēmu me kī. Ana ka tū ki konei.

    14 ngā Kapa Haka taku mahara i tēra wā, te whakataetae tuatahi a Mataatua.

    Ko Te Whanau a Apanui, ko Waioeka Nui-a-Kiwa, ko Te Whakatohea ko Te Oke mā.

    So, they were the regional champions. When Mātaatua left…

    Those in the Mātaatua group that went, were Turi te Kani, Ben Gauge, Emma Rogers, Te Uru Mcgarvey, Te Rangi Puke. There was also Nan Peka and Josie Mortenson. They went to see Sir Kīngi Ihaka who was the chairman of Te Matatini at the time about Mātaatua breaking away.

     

    So, the kapa haka here might be revived by the elders.

    The Ahurei had already been established but it was to get Mātaatua back in the game, let's say. 

    It was held here. There were fourteen teams that I can remember, in the first Mātaatua competition. 

    There was Te Whanau-a-Apanui, Waioeka-nui-a-Kiwa, Te Whakatohea, that's Te Oke and others.

    Kia ora.

    Wow.

    Wini ia rātou te Waiata A ringa.

    They won the action song.

    A Te Whakatohea?

     

     

    Ae.

    Te Whakatōhea?

     

     

    Yep.

    Ko wai to rātou Kaiako?

     

     

    Ko Te Oke mā.

     

     

    O ko Te Oke tonu?

    Who were the tutors?

     

     

    Te Oke and others.

     

     

    Oh, Te Oke?

    Ko Te Oke, a me kī ko te Wharekawa, ko Carlo mā i roto.

    Anā ko Eke Pii, ko Ngāti Awa ki Rangitaiki i tēra wā ko Eke Pī te ingoa.

     

    A ko Te Karu. Ana ko te Karu, o me Te Aranga, e hia ngā tīma o Tauranga Moana?

    Kei te haere tonu te Aranga i ēnei rā. Me tētahi tīma haramai i Tokoroa.

    14 ngā tīma, i te wā kotahi.

    Ka wini ia Waioeka, ka tuarua ko te Whanau a Apanui, ka tuatoru ko te Eke pii.

    Ko mātou ngā tīma haere ai ki Otautahi i 1986 ki te whakataetae.

     

    Anā kā mutu tēra ka mutu a Waioeka 1988, ta mātou whakataetae whakamutungā Waioeka.

    Ki te mea i muri mai a Mataatua i tuu ki Whakatane, i tuatoru mātou.

    Ko Te Whanau a Apanui, i wini a Te Whanau a Apanui i tuarua ko Ngāti awa ki Rangitaiki.

    Ka tuatoru a Waioeka.

    Yes, Te Oke. Wharekawa, Carlo and others were in the group.

    There was Eke Pī, that’s Ngāti Awa ki Rangitaiki, they were known as Eke Pī at the time.

     

    There was Te Karu, Te Aranga and teams from Tauranga.

    Te Aranga is still going today and a team from Tokoroa came too.

    In total, there were fourteen on the day.

    Waioeka won, Te Whānau-a-Apanui place second and Eke Pī came third.

    We were the teams who traveled to Christchurch to compete in 1986.

     

    After that, Waioeka finished. That was our last competition as Waioeka.

    The next Mātaatua competition was held at Whakatāne, where we placed third.

    Te Whānau-a-Apanui came won, Ngāti Awa ki Rangitaiki came second and Waioeka placed third.

    Kotahi noa te tīma ka haere?

     

    E rua.

    Did only one team go forward?

     

    Two teams.

    Ko Whanau Apanui me Ngāti Awa ki Rangitaiki.

    Anā ko te whakamoetanga tēra i ngā mahi a Waioeka i tēra wā 1988. I muri mai i tēra, kā kuhu au ki roto i Te Whanau a Apanui ki te haere ki Whangarei, engari ka makere mai.

    Nāku pea tētahi o wā rātou nekeneke i roto i tā rātou whakaeke, kia Te Rangihau, nā hau rā i whakaki, ka whakakipakipa te rohe o ngā.

    Te Whanau-a-Apanui and Ngāti Awa-ki-Rangitaiki.

    That was when Waioeka was dismantled in 1988. After that, I joined Te Whānau-a-Apanui to go to Whangārei, but I never made it.

    I created a piece of choreography in their entrance, “Ki a Te Rangihau, nāhau rā i whakakipakipa…ka whakakipakipa i te rohe o Mātaatua.”

    Anā ka haria i tēra ki runga ki Whangarei, ka tuatoru rātou.

    Arā 1988 tēra, 1989 ka haere au i muri i te hautanga ia Mokomoko. Ka haere au ki Kānata.

    Anā ka hoki mai 1990 ka kuhu atu au te Purei whutupōro te mahi Kānata.

     

    Kā hoki mai a 1990, ka wini ia Te Whanau a Tutauake, kā wehe a Te whanau a Tutauake me Te Whanau a Apanui. Ka tū a Tutauake ka wini ia rātou ia Mataatua te Kaha.

    Ka tuarua ko te Karu, ana ko Te Karu me Te Whānau Tutauake haere hei kanohi ki Waitangi 1990.

    And that was performed in Whangārei, where they placed third. 

    That was in 1988. In 1989, after Mokomoko was exhumed. I traveled to Canada and returned in 1990. I went to Canada to play rugby.

     

    I returned in 1990, Te Whānau-a-Tūtauake took it out that year. Them and Te Whānau-a-Apanui separated that year. Tūtauake won the Mātaatua competition at Te Kaha.

    Te Karu came second and both they and Te Whānau-a-Tūtauake represented the region at Waitangi in 1990.

    Engari kāre he Kapa haka o Te Whakatohea I taua wā?

     

    Te Whakatōhea didn't have a team at the time?

    Kāre kau.

    Engari kā kuhu au ki, ko au te Kaitātaki o Te whanau o Tutauake i Waitangi i 1990.

     

    I raro ia aunty Emma, I raro ia aunty Emma i raro ia Vad.

    Ko au te kaiako hoki ia Tutauake i tēra wā, ka uru au te mea kō.

    No.

    However, I was the leader of Te Whānau-a-Tūtauake at Waitangi in 1990.

     

    We were under the tutelage of Aunty Emma and Vad.

    I was also teaching Tūtauake at the time.

    Kaitito nēra?

    You were the composer?

    Tōna kaitito nei engari ko te kuia te Kaitito.

    E whai wāhi ki ngā kupu, i te mea kua i roto i ngā 80s kua tīmata au te whakaako ia Pungarehuwai i roto i te Delamere.

     

    Kua tito au mo rātou, ko au te kaiako o te Delamere cup i ēra wā.

    Anā koinei pea taku tipu pea i roto i te ao.

    Ka tangohia te waiata o uncle Ngapo mo Ngongoi.

     

    Anā ka hurihia ngā kupu pēra kia Te Kōti.

    Ka hurihia kia eke ngā kupu mō Ngoi.

    Mō te koroua rā i mate i tēra wā ko Himiona.

     

    Ko taku Haka pea i wēra wā, ko te mahi Rangatahi.

    Whakatipu i te Rangatahi, ko te Kōkiri pea te mea i tēra wā.

    Ako i ngā tamariki i te Whakairo, i te Kōwhaiwhai.

    I te whakahaerehia e Karauria i roto i te Poari, te mahi raranga, koirā taku haka.

     

    Engari kā kuhu ki roto a te Whanau a Tutauake.

     

    Ana nō muri atu ka kuhu au i roto i Te Wharewānanga o Waikato ka too ia atu au e Tīmoti ki roto i tāna Kapa haka, Ko te reo Māori

    Sort of, the old lady was the composer.

    I helped with the words. In the 80s, I started teaching Pungarehuwai for the Delamere Cup.

     

    I was composing for them, I was also teaching them for the Delamere Cup.

    That was upbringing in that world.

    We used the song composed by Uncle Ngāpō for Ngoi.

     

    And changed the words, similar to Te Kooti.

    We changed the words from being about Ngoi.

    And related them to the old man, Himiona, who had passed away at the time. 

     

    My haka at the time was, Ko Te Mahi Rangatahi, which was about raising the youth. I think Kōkiri was happening at the time. Where the youth were taught how to carve and paint kōwhaiwhai. It was facilitated by the Board, weaving too, that was my haka.

     

     

     

    However, I joined Te Whānau-a-Tūtauake.

     

    Afterward, I went to Waikato University, where I joined Tīmoti’s group, which was all in Māori.

    Te whakahaere nēra?

    The instructions?

    Te whakahaere, ahakoa te reo Māori o wāku kaiako, kei te reo pākeha a ōna wā kā reo māori, reo pākeha, reo māori, reo pākeha. Ko tāna reo māori tūturu ake.

    Me taku ako ki te tiki i ngā kupu tāwhito, te mea ko waku tītonga he ngāwari.

    Ko taku mea he tiki i ngā kupu tawhito.

    A nōreira ka whai au i tēra tairā.

     

    1991, 1992 ko mātou pea te tuatahi ki te tuu i runga i te papa o te Matatini, kāre kau he tarau.

     

    Ko ahau ko Ruben Collier, ko Te Rangihau Gilbert.

    The instructions. Although my teachers previously spoke Māori, the instruction was in English and Māori, they would switch between the two. However, Tīmoti only spoke Māori.

    I learnt how to select old words. My compositions prior were simple.

    I learned how to include old words in my compositions and pursued that style.

     

     

    In 1991 or 1992, we were the first to stand on the Te Matatini stage without underwear.

     

    There was Ruben Collier, Te Rangihau Gilbert and myself.

    Kō Opotiki mai Tawhiti tēnei?

    Was that Ōpōtiki-mai-tawhiti?

    Te Whare wānanga o Waikato.

     

     

     

    O nēra?

     

     

     

    No, Waikato University.

     

     

     

    Really?

     

     

     

    Ki runga o Turangawaewae, 1992 ki runga o te Awa.

    Kei kō ngā whakāhua i roto i te pukapuka o Tīmoti, haka, tāna pukapuka haka.

    Ko mātou kei roto, ia mātou e tai ana, kāre kau he tarau.

    It was at Tūrangawaewae, in 1992, on the river.

    The photographs are in Tīmoti’s book Haka.

    We were there, we were young and without underwear.

    Koirā te, taku kite i tēra ko te haere a mātou a Mataatua ki Waitangi 1990.

     

    Ka whakaeke te Motu.

    Ko te koroua a Mōwai Tihi, nō Ruatoki i te ārahi ia Mataatua me tāna maro.

    I haere ia ki te Pakanga, kārekau he tarau, whakaeke i runga o Waitangi te ārahi ia Mataatua, ko tāna ārahi a “Te Puru”.

     

    Ko te iwi o te Motu kei mua,ka tīmata te koroua tāna haka, kā eke kauru a Mataatua ki roto i tāna “ Te Pūru, e ko te”

     

    Kā wāhia TNZ, te ope ka whakaeke a Mataatua ki roto. Ko te koroua rā kāre he tarau, tāna Koti-ate paraoa

    Ko tāna reo he oritē ki tō Uncle Ben, Tiioro, whakamatakū tangata.

     

    Anā ko Uncle Monita te waha, te whakakapi i ngā whaikōrero katoā mo te Motu. Arā ko “Pinepine te kura” te waiata.

     

    Ko Mataatua.

    Nōreira tēra tauira o te koroua rā o Mōwai.

    Kua kite au, kua whakatauirā kē hia mai.

    E hara i te mea nāku noa i hei, takatakahi i te Mana o ngā Tīipuina.

    Kua kite, kua whakatauirā kē hia mai, i te Tapu o ngā Tapu.

    We went to Waitangi in 1990.

     

    The whole country ascended the marae.

    The old man, Mōwai Tihi from Ruātoki was leading Mātaatua, he was wearing a maro.

    He went to war; he didn’t have any underwear when he ascended Waitangi leading Mātaatua and led “Te Pūru”.

     

    People from across the country were in front when the old man started his haka, and Mātaatua went on the marae performing the haka, “Te Pūru, e ko te…”

     

    The group of people parted and Mātaatua ascended the marae. The old man wasn't wearing any underwear, he was holding a whale bone koteate. His voice was similar to Uncle Ben’s. He could yell and it was frightening.

    Uncle Monita was the spokesperson who concluded the formal speeches for the country. Pinepine Te Kura was the song.

     

    Mātaatua stood to support.

    So, that example stems from the old man, from Mōwai.

    I had seen it already; it had already exemplified.

    It’s not as if I alone decided to trample on the mana of the ancestors. 

    I had seen it being exemplified already and witnessed it in front of the most tapu people.

    I reira a Aunty Maka mā, kia mōhio mai koe me te koroua rā, te ārahi ia Mataatua.

    Tuhoe, Iwi ngahere te mea tūturu.

    Heoi anō, muri tēra ko Te Whare wānanga o Waikato. Ko te whakapōapoa mai i ahau kia uru i roto i tōna Kapa Haka.

     

    Taku pōhiri ki te Tohu Paitai ko te kōrero mai a Tīmoti, ka tū au te whaikorero ta mātou Whakaeke.

    Ka kī mai a Tīmoti haere mātou te rūru, kā mea mai “Kuhu mai ki roto i taku Kapa Haka”.

    Aunty Maka and them were all there you know and the old man, leading Mātaatua.

    The Tūhoe people of the bush, the staunch ones.

    After that, came Waikato University. I was enticed to join his haka team.

     

     

    I was invited to join Te Tohu Paetahi by Tīmoti. I stood to speak at the welcome ceremony.

    Tīmoti said, when we went to greet each other, “Join my haka team.”

     

     

    Kātahi ko te kī mai a Van, te tuakana a Boss, “ēhara”.

    Kei te mea a Timoti “Kei te haere rātou te Whare Wānanga ki Niumia i te mutungā o te tau.

    And then Van, te tuakana anoo a Boss goes “Doubt it”.

     

    Tīmoti said, “The University is traveling to Noumea at the end of the year.”

    Kō ahau i roto i te rōpu, 10 o mātou kei te haere.

     

    Kāre au e mōhio kia Timoti, kāre au e mōhio ki au, auā tēra pea mōhio ia ki au, aua kāre au i te mōhio.

     

    Anā i roto i tāna Kapa Haka.

    Ka meatia ia māku te rangi o te hari o tāna Haka.

     

    Te haka i tēra wā ko Te Raupatu whenua o Waikato.

     

    Nōreira kua, pirangi pea ia te tāera haka o kōnei.

     

    Kāre au mōhio engari me hari ahau ki tāna whare i tētahi pō, matakū katoā ahau. 

    Kā tono atu ia ko Joe Harawira hei haramai i taku taha i te mea matakū anō ki te haere ki tāna whare.

     

    Kāre au e mōhio ki te tangata rā, he pō kē katahi anō ka uru.

    Ka pirangi māku te taki o tōna Haka.

    I was in the group, there were ten of us that went.

     

    Tīmoti and I didnt know each other at the time. He may have known who I was, I’m not sure but I didn't know him.

     

    In his team, I was instructed by him to create the beat for his haka.

     

    The haka was about the land confiscations in Waikato.

     

    Maybe he was looking for the style of haka from here.

     

    I’m not sure but I had to take it to his house one night. I was terrified. 

    He asked Joe Harawira to come with me because I was too afraid to go to his house.

     

    I wasn't familiar with him; it was at night, and I’d only just joined the team and he wanted me to create the beat for his haka.

    (Haka)

    (Haka)

    Koirā te hari, te hari i mōhio ai.  

    Anā ka mutu tēra, koirā taku tū whakamutungā 1992 ki runga o Turangawaewae. Engari tautoko au ki ngā Koroneihana a Timoti. I te mea i kua tai kē au ki ngā Koroneihana ia Waioeka.

     

    Taku Koroneihana tuatahi, 24 pea mātou, 80 o Te Whare Wānanga o waikato. Ka wini ia mātou. 

    Ko te changing rooms i tēra wā i runga i te rori, i waho tonu ō Turangawaewae. Kei te kuhu mātou i o mātou Piupiu.

     

    Waioeka, kei te rongo mātou tamariki mātou, kei te rongo mātou tētahi Kapa Haka nui, Haruru ana.

    Ko mātou i muri ia rātou e tatari ana i te kēti, mōhio koe nē. Ka karanga koe, ka karanga ka whakawātea te Kapa Haka.

     

    Kā makere mai tētahi Kapa Haka, ko Joe, ko Te Rita Papesch.

    Kua mōhio au kia Te Rita Papesch ko Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato i te mea kua puta to rātou rongo.

     

    I ngā mōheni Tūtangata i ēra wā. Ka kite koe te Polynesian Festival. Ko Te Whare wānanga o Waikato kei te piki. Tuatoru ko Te Rita papesch kei te toa o te Manutaki. Engari ko rātou ka makere mai I te ātamira. 80 o rātou.

     

    Ko mātou ka whakaeke, ka wini ia mātou.

    (Ka waiata)

     

    Kōira tā mātou waiata a ringa “The other guy won’t be around”.

    1995 ka tū te whakataetae a Rohe o Mataatua ki kōnei, kāre kau he Kapa Haka matua.

     

    Ka karangatia e Johnny Kurei. Kua haurangi kē ahau i te kāinga me Ruana.

    That’s the beat, the beat I know. 

    After that, that was the last time I performed at Tūrangawaewae in 1992. But I continued supporting the Koroneihana with Tīmoti. Because I had been to Koroneihana in the past with Waioeka.

     

    My first Koroneihana, there must have been about 24 of us and 80 from Waikato University. We won.

    The changing rooms were on the road then, outside of Tūrangawaewae. We were putting on our piupiu.

     

     

    This was with Waioeka, we were only young. We could hear a big haka team giving it their all. 

    We were to perform after them. We were waiting at the gate. You know, aye? The haka team is called to enter.

     

    The haka team had just finished, it was Joe and Te Rita Papesch.

    I already knew who Te Rita Papesch was from Waikato University, they were well known.

     

    I’d seen them in the Tū Tangata magazines at the time. I’d seen them perform at the Polynesian Festival.

    Waikato University was on the rise. They’d come third and Te Rita Papesch had won the female leader.

    So, they had just exited the stage, all 80 of them.

     

    We went on the stage and ended up winning it.

    (Singing)

     

    That was our action song, “The other guy won’t be around”.

    In 1995, the Mātaatua regional competition was held here. There wasn't a main team at the time.

     

    Johnny Kurei called a meeting.  I had already had a few to drink at home with Ruana.

    Kua haurangi kē, kua tekau kāraka ka tae mai a Johnny ki te kāinga. Ka mea mai “Kua karangatia he Parakatihi ki Te Rere”. Kua haere ia ki te whakakao i ngā tāngata kua mea mai ia nāku i karanga te hui.

    Kāore nāna kē.

     

    Kā riri au, engari waimarie i roto i te pepa Titio waiata a Hirini Melbourne. Te Whare Wananga o Waikato, he waiata wāku.

     

    Ka oho au, ka haere atu kia Richard, whakaoho ia Richard Mitai. Ko tāku “Hey pureihia mai tēnei.”

    Tā mātou poi tēra mo te reo.

     

    Anā ka tū te hui, taku mōhio 27 January 1995, ana i reira pea te 50 tāngata, nui tonu. Me ngā koroua me ngā kuia, kua kao mai a Johnny.

     

     

    Ahakoa māua ko Dawn kua kōrero kē, I te tangihanga o te kuia rā o Te Wairēmana, i takotō ia ki Te Rere.

    I te mea ki te mahi pea te wharekai Tapairu i Opape, ka takoto ia ki Te Rere mo tāna Tangihanga. I reira kā kōrero māua.

     

    Kei te haere mai te mea, kei te kōrero māua. Pātaihia te kuia he ingoa.

    Nōreira te tīmatatanga o te whakāro. Engari nā Johnny i whakatīnana te mea.

    We were already drunk; it was ten o'clock when Johnny came over home.

    He said, “Hey, a practice has been called at Te Rere.” He was going around rounding everyone up and telling them that I had called the meeting.v He had instead.

     

    I was angry but it’s fortunate I completed Hīrini Melbournes composition paper at Waikato University. I had a few songs.

     

    I got up and went to visit Richard Mitai. I woke him up. “Hey, play this.”

    It was our poi about the language.

     

    The first muster was held, to my knowledge, on January the 27th 1995. There might have been about 50 of us there, quite a bit. Alongside the elderly men and women who had gathered together, thanks to Johnny.

     

    Although Dawn and I had already spoken about it at the funeral of Te Wairēmana’s grandmother who lay in state at Te Rere. I think they were renovating the dining hall Tapairu at Ōpape, so she lay in state at Te Rere. So, we spoke there.

     

    The time was coming, so we had begun speaking. Ask the elderly lady for a name for the group. 

    That’s where it all started. But it was Johnny who made it happen.

    Ana i tū a Opotiki mai Tawhiti. Wānangahia mātou he aha te ingoa ka pīrangi a Wharekawā, ko Te Whakatohea. I whakāro mātou “Kao me Opotiki mai Tawhiti te ingoa”

    Kia rite kia Waioeka Nui-a-Kiwa, kia kuhu mai ko te katoā.

    And Ōpōtiki-mai-tawhiti was born. We deliberated on the name, Te Wharekawa wanted it to be Te Whakatōhea. We thought further, “No, Ōpōtiki-mai-tawhiti should be the name.”

    Following the example of Waioeka-nui-a-Kiwa, it was all inclusive.

    Ko te Hāpori katoā nēra?

    It included the whole community. 

    Ae, kia kāua e mea.

     

    Hei matakū te tangata i te kuhu mai, tēra pea kei te matakū tonu rātou ki te kuhu mai. Kāre au e mōhio ana, hēoi ano. Koirā te mea, kāre e raka te kuaha ki te tangata ahakoa kōwai. Koirā te timatanga, ko taku waiako i tēra wā he rite taku ako, ki ngā ako i kite au.

     

    He hāparangi, e rīrīri, e kōhetehete. Kāre e whiu te rākau engari wēpua te rākau i runga i te papa i runga i taku hēmanawa pea. I te mea whakāro mātou ki te kuhu mātou kaua e kuhu hei whakakī noa i ngā tūranga, engari mē kuhu. I te mea kua pakeke mai i roto i te Delamere Cup kua moohio mātou ki te whakataetae. Kua whakatō kē.

    No one was excluded.

     

    So that no one was afraid to join, some might still be scared to join. I’m not sure.

    The door is never closed to anyone, regardless of who they are. That’s how it all started. My teaching style at the time mimicked the style of learning I had experienced.

     

    Yelling, getting angry and growling. I never used a weapon, but I did smack it on the ground in frustration. We were of the thought that if you joined, you didn’t just join to fill in the gaps, instead you joined with conviction. Because we had grown up with the Delamere Cup, we were familiar with competition. It was embedded in us.

    Tipu ake i roto i te whakataetae nē?

    You’d grown up competing, right?

    Ko te wikitōria, te wikitōria i runga i te aroha. Whakapau Kaha.

     

    Nōreira tito au ngā waiata, ko Mokomoko te Haka. I te mea i haere au ki te hāhu ia Mokomoko.

    Ko te Parden mo Mokomoko “Kei hea te whenua?”.

     

    Koira te wero ki te Kāwanatangaa.

    Ko te fiscal envelope tēra, te piriona tāra i mea tia ai hei whakāea i ngā raru a te Tiriti, koirā te kaupapa.

    I tiki mai a ngā kupu a Timoti (Ka haka)

     

    I roto i tā mātou haka mō te Raupatu, tīkina mai kō

    It was about winning, winning with love and giving it your everything.

     

    I composed the songs. Mokomoko was the haka. I was one who went to exhume Mokomoko. The pardon for Mokomoko was asking where is the land?

     

    That was the challenge to the government.

    It was about the Fiscal Envelope, which included a million dollars to cover all Treaty grievances. That was the theme. I used Tīmoti’s words (Performing the haka)

     

    They were included in our haka about the land confiscations

    Me taku rangahau i ngā waiata (Ka haka)

    I had also researched the song (Demonstrates haka)

    Kua whai i tāna tauira, rangahau i ngā, pēra ia tāua, i ngā Mōteatea ka kite i ngā, kiā hāngai ki tō kaupapa.

     

     

    Kua whai au i te tauira a.

    Nōreira i roto i te Matatini, kua whakataetae māua ko Tīmoti.

    Ka mea, i tae mai ia i te whakataetae i te tuatahitanga o Ōpotiki mai Tawhiti i te Kāreti. 

     

    I runga i ngā Kiwi Fruit Boxes.

    I followed his example, just as we do, research the ancient chants and pull things from there that relate to your subject.

     

    I followed that example. 

    When it came to Te Matatini, Tīmoti and I were competing against each other.

    He came here to the first competition at Ōpōtiki College.

     

    We performed on kiwi fruit boxes.

    Hei atāmira?

     

    It was the stage?

    Hei atāmira.

     

    I mua i tēra ki muri I te taraka ngā atāmira.

    Engari, ka makere mātou ka mea mai “O atāhua, Opotiki mai Tawhiti”. Tuarua mātou, ka whai wāhi mātou. 

    Matakū au te noho ki te Prize Giving i tēra rā, ka hoki au ki Te Rere kā noho.

     

     

    Ka hoki mai a OMT on the bus, we had to push our bus. Kei raro rā ngā tāne ē peipei ana i te Pahi, me te mōhio ka tūreiti koe ka tomohia mai e māua.

     

    Kei reira māua e pana ana i te Pahi kāre e tāti.

    Pōkōkohua pahi.

     

    Tahi ka tīmata te pahi kā rere, kāre i huaki ngā kuaha kei waho rā ngā tāne e mea ana i ngā kuaha.

    Engari ka whakaeke, kei te hoki mai a Opotiki mai Tawhiti.

     

    Ka makere mai rātou, i te marae ahau me Wēteni Te Rere e tatari ana.

    Me tū i Randsfield, he matakū nōku ki te.

     

    Kātahi anō rātou kua whakataetae kua uru a Mātārae Ōrehu.

     

    Ana kua tae mai a Wēteni ki te tautoko i āna uri.

    Ana ka hoki au ki te marae, matakū.

    Kā tīni ngā kākahu o OMT ka hoki rātou ki te College.

     

    Kāre au i hoki, matakū kāre i whakapono.

    That was the stage.

     

    Prior to that, the stage was the back of the truck, was the stage.

    When we exited the stage, we were told, “Stunning, Ōpōtiki-mai-tawhiti.” We came second and made it into Te Matatini. I was too afraid to attend the prize giving at the time, so went back to Te Rere and stayed there.

     

    Ōpōtiki-mai-tawhiti returned on the bus, we had to push our bus. The men were outside pushing the bus. We knew if we were late, marks would be taken off.

     

    We were there pushing our bus that wouldn't start.

    Bloody bus.

     

    As soon as the bus started, we were off. But then the doors wouldn't open, the men were outside banging on the doors. We made it and returned home again.

     

    They exited the stage, and I was at the Te Rere Marae with Wētini and Tui Ransfeild because I was scared.

     

    They had just completed, Te Mātārae-i-Ōrehu, and made it through to Te Matatini.

     

    So, Wētini had come to support his relatives.

    I returned to the marae freightend.

    Ōpōtiki-mai-tawhiti changed clothes and returned to the college.

     

    I didn’t go back because I was too scared.

    Kia ora. Nōreira koirā te tīmatanga mai ō Ōpotiki mai Tawhiti?

    Wow. And that was the beginning of Ōpōtiki-mai-tawhiti?

    Ka tuarua mātou, kā tae.

    We placed second and made it through to Te Matatini.

    Ka tae. Ka tae ki te whakataetae, ki te Matatini.

    We went to compete at Te Matatini in 1996, in Te Arawa.

    Ki te Matatini, 1996 Te Arawa.

    Te Matatini, 1996, in Te Arawa.

    Kia ora.

    Wow.

    Ana ka tuarua mātou i te reo.

    We placed second in the language.

    Mai tāua wā tae noa mai ki tēnei wā.

    Ia te tau kā uru nēra?

    And from that time up until today, every day you’ve placed?

    Ka uru. Engari tēra tau1996 i tuarua mātou i te reo. Ko Timoti i tuatahi, ko au i tuarua. Te tau i muri atu 1998 ko Rikirangi i tuatahi, ko ahau i tuarua.

    We’ve placed every time. In 1996, we placed second in the language. Tīmoti won and I came second. The year after that, in 1998, Rikirangi won and I came second.

    Kia ora. Heoi ano Uncle Uncle koinā te paungā o te wā kia tāua. Engari mīharo katoā, mīharo katoā.

    Thank you. Anyway Uncle, our time has run out. This has been amazing.

    Ka pai, ka pai tērā.

    That’s fine.

    Me taku waimaria ānei ki ahau e whakarongo atu ana ki ngā kōrero.

    Heoi anō, nōreira e mihi ana.

    I’m fortunate to listen to all of these stories. 

    Thank you.

    Aroha mai engari he nui noa ngā mahara. 

    Kei konei te hātekēhi e haramai nei.

    Forgive me, there are so many memories to tell.

    There are funnier stories to tell.

    Tēna koutou.

    Thank you all.

    Tēna koe.

    Thank you.

     

    As the interview finishes fades to black screen Te Kahautu stands and performs a waiata with appropriate actions. 

    Camera brings up again the scenic shots of toetoe then a shot of a carved pou. The skate park appears and quickly dies out to a monument from Opotiki center shot. 50km speed sign which also has Opotiki on it. Crosses to a panning shot of a mural from the town center. It returns to the beach then to the river with barge, which has two boy who look to be skimming rocks. Then back to the beach and the river mouth with a walking bridge out the river, then to the walking bridge with bike riders coming across. Back to a shot overlooking the ocean and carved pou then quickly back to a different area of the river. A shot of the carved pou in Opotiki. Shots of street art and to the skate park once again with carved pou. Then closing on the carved pou which switches over to a bird’s eye view of the district.

    [ Accordion ]

    Opening images of the beach and ocean with waves breaking, changing to a panned out shot of Te Ao Haka written in the sand. Birds eye view panning over greenery land with the ocean in the distance before changing to a close up of the beach and ocean with large coastal hills in the distance. A still image of footprints in the sand to a clip of bird’s eye view of a awa with green farm lands on either side. Close up of flowing water in the river. Close up shot of a street sign with “Timoti RD” displayed. A Clip of some sand dunes with ocean in the distance. Two close up images with one showing a Cross made with sticks to a heart shaped out in the sand with stones as its lines. Another bird’s eye view of farmlands and a town with a beautiful sunset in the distance. Birds eye view panning the town with streetlights and moving car lights as it fades from dusk to dark. Multiple close-up images of a carvings displayed one after another. The words Ngāti appear on the screen with a faded image of carvings in a park followed by a taiaha panning in from the left with the words “Te Ao Haka” appearing. Camera then closes into studio where Taupiri sits alongside interviewer Tiahuia Ropitini.

    Te Reo Māori

    Reo Pākehā

    Nau mai rā, kei te nanakia, kei te manuhiri o te rā, kei tā tātou teina, tēnā koe kua whakawātea mai i a koe, kia hora mai ngā kōrero e pā ana ki tō haerenga ki roto ki tēnei ao haka ōu. 

     

    Hei timatanga mā tāua ka tuku atu te rākau ki a koe. Whakamōhio atu ki a tātou tamariki, ki ngā kaiwhakarongo, ko wai koe, nō hea koe. Kei a koe te wā

    Welcome to the mischievous, the guest of the day, our junior, thank you for making yourself available to share your journey regarding your Ao Haka.

     

     

    To begin with, I’ll give it over to you. Let our children and listeners know who you are, and where you’re from. The floor is yours.

    He nanakia ka tika, e Ti. Tuatahi i mua i tōku pahupahu mōku ake, mokori anō, ka mihia koutou ngā kaiwhakatairanga i tō tātou ao haka. 

     

    Koutou ngā haputa o tēnei mea te whakatairanga i tō tātou ao haka, nā reira, mokori anō, ka mihia koutou.

     

    A, ko wai tēnei nanakia e tū ake nei, e noho ake nei rānei, ko Taupiri Petera tēnei, he uri tēnei nō konei nō Kahungunu. He raukura tēnei anō hoki, nō Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga.

     

    Kei pau i a au ngā miniti ki te pahupahu mōku ake, ā, ka ū tonu tātou ki te kaupapa.

    A mischief is certainly true, Ti. Firstly, before I talk about myself, I must first acknowledge you all, the promoters of our haka world.

     

    You are the beacons advocating for our haka world,therefore, I must acknowledge you.

     

     

    Who is this mischief standing here, rather, sitting here? I am Taupiri Petera, I am a descendent of Kahungunu. I am also a graduate of Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga.

     

     

    I’m taking up all the time speaking about myself, so we’ll focus on the subject.

    Ko koe te kaupapa, ko koe te kaupapa, me pahupahu. Tēnā kōrero mai tō ao haka, i timata tō ao haka ki hea? Ki raro i ngā parirau o wai? Ko wai te hunga i poipoi, i penapena i a koe ki roto i tō ao haka, nā reira me hoki whakamuri ngā whakaaro tō tupuranga ki roto i tō ao haka.

    You are the subject, you are the subject, you must rave on. Well, talk to us about your haka world. Where did your kapa haka journey begin? Whose tutelage were you under? Who were those who nurtured and educated you through your haka journey? So cast your thoughts back to when you were growing up within your haka journey.

    Ko te pātai ia ki hea timata ai nē. Ka hoki ōku mahara ki te tau rua mano mā waru pea. Ki reira timata ai tōku ao haka, nōku e āhua whitu, whitu tau, waru tau pea.

     

    I tū te kura tahi o tō māua kura, o tō tātou kura anō hoki ki tētahi momo ahurei. He momo tūnga noa iho ki mua i te mura o te ahi.

     

    Ki reira hoki tipu ai te hiahia mō tēnei mea te kapa haka. Nā reira, i tēnā wā ko whaea Bubby ko rātou mā e penapena i a mātou ngā pīpī.

     

    Nā wai, nā wai a, kua tipu rawa te hiahia mō tēnei mea te ao haka, e tipu tonu ana te hiahia, te hōkaka mō tēnei mea te ao haka anō hoki. Nā reira mokori anō ka mihia rātou ngā kaiwhakatō, ā, ngā kaiwhakawai anō hoki i te kakano.

    Let’s begin with where it started, yes. I cast my thoughts back to the year 2008. That’s when my haka journey started when I was around seven or eight years old.

     

    The primary school side of our school performed at a festival. It was just a performance in front of everyone.

     

     

    That’s where my desire for kapa haka flourished. At that time, it was whaea Bubby and co who nurtured us, the little ones.

     

    Eventually, my desire for kapa haka bloomed, and it’s still growing – the desire for the haka world as well. So acknowledgements must be made to those who planted and watered that seed.

    Ka hoki ki ō rā i a koe e tamariki tonu ana ki raro i ngā whakaakoranga a whaea Bubby mā, he aha ngā waiata i ērā wā i ako ai e koutou?

    Going back to the days when you were still a child under the tutelage of whaea Bubby and co, what songs did you learn back then?

    Ko ērā waiata ka kaha rangona e te tangata ka puta ana ia ki kaupapa kē atu pēnei i a Tūtira mai, Ngā Pepeha, kāre i ārikarika ngā waiata i whakaakona e ia.

     

    Ehara i te mea he tū me te whakataetae engari he momo whakarauora noa iho i te ao haka.

    They were the songs that people hear when they go to events, like Tūtira mai, Ngā Pepeha, she taught so many songs.

     

    Yeah, we didn’t stand for competition. It was more so to participate in the haka world.

    I ngā me kī, ka rongo au ki ngā ingoa o ērā waiata, koirā ngā waiata o te iwi nei o Kahungunu. Kei te maumahara koe he aha ngā kōrero e pā ana ki ērā waiata?

    In, let’s say, I hear the names of those songs, and they are of this tribe, of Kahungunu. Do you remember what the explanations for those songs were?

    Oh āe

    Oh yes.

    Tūtira mai, e mōhiotia whānuitia e tātou ki te kaupapa o roto o tēnā waiata, anā ko te tūtira i ngā iwi, mai tēnā iwi, tēnā iwi puta noa i te ao, ā kia tūtira, kia tapatahi, kia kotahi anō hoki.

     

    Me te whakaaro anō, ko ēnā waiata ka rangona tonu i ēnei o ngā rā, ko tēnā iwi, ko tēnā iwi.

    Tūtira mai, the meaning of that song is widely known, that is the banding together of all tribes throughout the world, to stand as one, be virtuous and stay united.

     

    Just another thought, these waiata are still sung today by many iwi.

    Āe tika tonu, u e, koia. Oh pai. I a koe e tamariki ana ko whaea Bubby, koirā ō maharatanga tuatahi o tō ao haka? Nā rātou te kākano i whakatō nā reira, koirā ō rā i te kura tahi anā ka tipu ana koe, ki hea mai i te kura tahi i haere pēhea nei tō ao haka?

    Yes, that is right indeed! Great. When you were young with whaea Bubby, are those your first memories regarding your haka journey? They were the people who planted the seed? So that was when you were at primary school. After primary, where did you go from there? Which direction did your haka journey take?

    Nā reira, nā te hōkaka o roto i au, kāti ake i a mātou, i te kimikimi noa me pēhea rawa e pakari ai te tū, e kounga ai te tū kia tū whakahīhī i runga anō i te whakaiti ki mua i te mura o te ahi.

     

    Nā reira, i peka atu mātou ki te wharekura [ooh na na] i mua i te taenga atu ki te wharekura, ki te mana kuratahi, i tū mātou, tō mātou kapa ki te taha o Whare Tāpere i taua wā ki Palmerston North.

     

    Ki reira whakatū ai te kaupapa, ki reira hoki te tūnga tuatahitanga ōku, mō te mana kuratahi. Nā reira, he wheako hou tēnā, he āhuatanga hou anō hoki nā runga i te whakaaro he whakataetae kua para.

     

    So kua huri, mai te whakangahau ki te āhuatanga o te whakataetae, anā ka kitea he taumata rerekē, he taumata anō e haere ana.

    So, because I had a desire within me, well, within all of us, we were trying to figure out how to improve our performance quality, how to be proud but remain humble while in the heat of performance.

     

    So, we went to the wharekura, but before we were actually at wharekura, we stood at Te Mana Kuratahi with our kapa who joined with Whare Tapere at the time, in Palmerston North.

     

     

    That’s where the event was held. That was also the first time I had stood at Te Mana Kuratahi. So, that was a new experience for me, it was new in the sense that it was a competition.

     

     

    So, my journey changed from one of non-competition to competition. That’s when I saw the standard was different, there was a higher standard.

    I pēhea tērā ki a koe? kāre e kore i eke koe, engari he aha ngā momo wheako e ako koe ki roto i tērā haerenga ōu?

    How was that for you? No doubt, you excelled, however, what experiences did you encounter within that journey?

    Ko te mea nui i ākona e au, i whakaakona e ngā pou o roto i tēnā kapa haka rānei, ko tēnei mea te tū tika nē. 

     

    Te tū tika, e pēhea rawa koe e kawe i a koe anō. Ka mutu, kia rongo i te wairua o te whakataetae, kia rongo i te ihiihi, te wehiwehi anō hoki.

     

    Ngā wheako katoa ēnā ki au i tērā wā anō hoki. Nā reira i, i āhua noho pēnei i te tamaiti, ooo pai, pai rawa atu ēnei… āe

    The main thing I learnt were the focus areas of that particular haka group. For example, how to stand. 

     

     

    How to stand, how to carry yourself. Furthermore, the atmosphere of competition and the sensations of exhilaration and awe.

     

    That’s what I experienced at that time. So, like a child, I sat thinking, “Ooh, this is amazing.” Yeah.

    Āe, āe ka tino rongo i te wairua. He wairua anō nē, me te mea hoki, me eke koe ki tētahi taumata anō so kei te rongo au i tērā momo mauri mai i a koe.

     

    Ko wai o kaiwhakaako, ko wai ngā kaiako haka ōu, i ērā wā?

    Yes, yes, you really do feel the spiritual aspect. It’s a different sensation, isn’t it? It’s like you go to another state of being. I’m feeling that kind of notion from you.

     

    Who were your tutors, your kapa haka tutors, at that time?

    I tēnā wā ko Mahinarangi Huata, ko Matua Warena, a ko wai atu? E aua, kua wareware i au ngā ingoa, engari koutou e mōhio ana, e mōhio katoa ana koutou ko wai koutou. Koirā ngā kaiwhakawai i tēnā wā e whakawai ana te kākano kia puāwai.

    At that time, they were Mahinārangi Huata, matua Warena – who else? I’m not sure, I’ve forgotten the names. However, you would know, you know who you all are. Those were the people who watered the seed to bloom.

    Mō te taha whakawhanaungatanga i te mea e rua ngā kura nē, e rua ngā kura i piri, i pēhea tērā āhuatanga. Kei te noho tahi tō mātou kura me tētahi kura kaupapa Māori anō, i pēhea te wairua whakawhanaungatanga?

    In terms of getting to know people, because there were two schools who joined together, how was that situation? There was our school and another Kura Kaupapa Māori who joined together. How was the atmosphere in terms of making friends?

    I pai rawa atu. E mīharo ana ki tēnā āhuatanga o te whakawhanaunga. Ki au nei koinā te painga o tēnei mea te mahi kapa haka nē. He whakawhanaunga, a koe ki tēnā kapa, ki tēnā kapa, e rongo ai te āhuatanga Māori me te tangata Māori anō hoki. Kāti ake, he mea rangona, kaha rawa atu ki te ao kapa haka nei.

    It was awesome. I was amazed at that aspect of whakawhanaungatanga. To me, that is one of the pros of kapa haka – to nurture good relations between yourself and your respective kapa. To be surrounded by all things Māori, as well as Māori people. It’s something you feel strongly in the kapa haka world. 

    He mahi Māori nē?

    It’s Māori isn’t it?

    Āe āe ka tika

    Yes, correct.

    Koirā te mahi o te Māori, ahakoa nō hea ahakoa ko wai, mēnā ka piri koe ki tētahi kaupapa kua whānau tātou.

    That’s what Māori do – no matter where you’re from or who you are, if you join a cause, you are considered family.

    Ana tika, tika tāu

    You’re totally correct.

    Ka pai, koirā tō ao haka i a koe e kura takawaenga ana

    So, that was your kapa haka world during middle school.

    Āe, tōna tekau mā rua, tekau mā tahi.

    Yes, I was around 12-11.

    Me te mea hoki ko whaea Bubby, kei te mōhio au ki a whaea Bubby rāua ko whaea Mahina, he whanaunga tata, ka mutu, he hoa tino piri tata rāua, 

    And also, whaea Bubby – I know whaea Bubby and whaea Māhina, they are close relations and close friends.

    Āe āe tika tāu, tika tāu

    Yes, you’re correct.

    nā reira, kāore e kore i reira ngā whakaakoranga ōrite.

    So, no doubt, there were similarities in teachings.

    I kitea ngā hononga, ngā aha, ngā wheako e āhua rite ana, nā reira, ehara i te mea he hou, he hou rawa atu, engari ko te wairua kē pea tēnā i hou ko ngā whakaakoranga tēnā a kua waia, kua waia ināianei.

    We saw the similarities, the similar experiences, so, nothing wasn’t necessarily new, but it was the atmosphere perhaps that was different. But we had already become accustomed to the teachings.

    Kia ora, he wheako whakaaweawe ki roto? He mea ki roto i ērā whakaakoranga i a koe e tipu ana, he aha ngā mea i whakaawe i a koe? 

    Thank you. Was there anything inspirational that came from that? Was there anything in the teachings you learnt while you were growing up? What inspired you?

    Tuatahi, ki au nei i mea atu au ko te tū tikatanga anā, me pēhea koe e tipu, e whakapakeke ā-whakaaro anō hoki nē, he momo rautaki e puāwai koe, e pakeke haere koe, kia kore ai koe e noho hei hianga ahakoa i mahue i a au tēnā ākoranga.

    Firstly, for me, like I mentioned before, it was the correct way to stand, how to develop, how to mature your thoughts as well. It’s like a strategy that helps you grow and mature, so you don’t stay immature – however I missed out on that lesson.

    I ētahi wā, āe ko koe tēnā

    Sometimes, yes, that’s you.

    Engari āe, ki a au nei, ko te puāwaitanga o te tangata 

    However, yes. To me, it’s the development of a person.

    Kia ora, tōna whanaketanga

    Yes, your growth as a person. 

    E kaha kawe nei i tēnā momo kaupapa.

    Which is strongly conveyed within that space.

    Kia ora. Pai. Kura tahi, kura takawaenga, wharekura, kōrero mai mō tō ao haka, i ō rā i te wharekura. Ko wai te hunga i whakaawe i a koe, ko wai te hunga i wepu i a koe, ko wai te hunga i wero i a koe i ērā wā.

     

    Kei te mōhio au ki tō ao haka ki roto o te wharekura, nā reira, tohaina ērā kōrero ki te hunga ka whai i tēnei ara. 

     

    He hunga ka tae mai ki te wharekura, ka whai i te ara o te kaitātaki, ka whai i te ara o te tuakana o te teina rānei. 

     

    Kua kite au i ōu pūkenga ki roto i tērā haerenga ōu, nā reira kōrerohia mai, mai i tō tirohanga

     

    He aha ōu whēako I te wharekura ki roto I ngā mahi haka. Ko wai ngā tāngata i whakaawe i a koe, ko wai ngā tāngata i wero i a koe, me ērā anō hoki i whakapono ki a koe… Āe, kōrero mai.

     

    Thank you. Great, Primary school, middle school, wharekura. Tell me about your haka journey while you were at wharekura. Who were those that inspired you, who were those that whipped you into shape, who were those that challenged you at that time?

     

    I know your kapa haka journey throughout wharekura, so share that with those who are following this path now.

     

    Those who will reach wharekura to pursue the path to being a leader, or to pursue the path to being a senior or junior member.

     

    I’ve seen your skills within your journey, so let’s hear your perspective.

     

     

    Let’s go from your view, what was your experience like in wharekura ki roto i ngā mahi haka

    Who were the people that inspired you, who were the people that challenged you and who were the people that believed in you and yea, talk me through that.

    Āe, tēnei mea te kura tuarua nē. Tuatahi, kia mōhio mai, te katoa o tātou, he taumata kē atu te kura tuarua i te mana kuratahi.

     

    Ki reira wepu ai au, ki reira whakatika ai au, ki reira mataku ai au, engari, kia ruku atu ki te hōhonutanga o ngā kōrero, i timata ake au i te tau rua mano tekau mā ono.

     

    Ki taku whakapae, ko te rua tekau mā ono, a rua mano tekau mā ono ki konei ki Te Hāro o Te Kāhu ngā whakataetae kura tuarua, koinā te tūnga tuatahitanga ōku.  Kāti ake ko tēnā campaign.

     

    He aha te kupu Māori mō te campaign?

     

    Yes, this secondary school thing, eh. Firstly, let it be known to all of us, secondary school is on another level compared to primary school.

     

    That’s where I was scolded, straightened up, that’s where I got scared. But to dive deep into my story, I started in 2016.

     

    I think in the year 2016, the secondary school competition was held here, Te Hāro o Te Kāhu. That was my first stand. And that campaign.

     

     

    What is the Māori word for campaign?

    Tērā, mm. Tērā tū, 

    That, ‘tū’,

    I tērā tū i kaha ngaua koutou e au…oh i kaha ngaua au e koutou nā runga i te whakaaro, he hianga tēnei e haere mai nei, me ōna āhuatanga hianga. Engari i te taenga atu i ēnā kūaha i tere, i tere huri ēnā whakaaro ōku, nā runga i te auau o te kurī, i runga i te ngau o te kurī anō hoki.

     

    Engari, i rangona e au, kāti ake, i whāngaia e koutou, tēnei mea te whakaiti nē, ka mutu, tēnei mea te rangatiratanga a, kia matomato ai te tipu, a kāti ake, kia kore ai e tū hei kaiwhakapehapeha, hei kaiwhakarekareka i au anō,

     

    engari, koinā ngā āhuatanga i whāngaia e koutou.  Mō te taha tū i uaua katoa tēnā tūnga nē, a ko āmaimai i rongo, ko wiriwiri i rongo, ko tokokawa i heke, ko tangi i heke,

     

    me te whakaaro anō, katoa ērā āhuatanga, ka ahu mai i te kapa haka nē, i te noho tahi. Engari i te mutunga iho, i mīharo rawa te tū ki au nei ahakoa kāore anō i eke ki taua whiringa whāiti, ki taua taumata e hiahia ana,

     

    ki au nei, ki reira rangona kaha ai te hōkaka, ki reira tipu mārika ai te hiakai mō tēnei mea te tū anō, nā reira ko au tēnā i hoki mai, i hoki mai me ēnei nanakia, me ēnei hiangatanga, engari, koinā te timatanga o tōku haerenga ki te kura tuarua.

    That campaign, I was afraid of you all because I mistakenly thought that you would all think, ‘here comes this mischief with his mischief ways.’ However, when I got to the doors, my thoughts changed quickly due to the barking of the dogs, the bite of the dogs as well.   

     

     

    However, what I felt was – well, what was taught by you all was this thing called humility. Furthermore, being proud of oneself and how one can flourish, but importantly, how one should not boast or talk up oneself.

     

     

    Alas, those are the characteristics you taught us. In regard to the performance, that was a really difficult stand, eh. Nerves and trembles were felt. Sweat and tears were shed.

     

    And just to think, all those things come out of doing kapa haka, being together. But at the end of the day, I think it was an amazing experience, although we didn’t make it to the finals, the place we wanted to be.

     

     

    For me, that’s where I felt a burning desire, the hunger grew to perform again. So that was me, I came back, I came back with these mischiefs and their mischief ways. But that was the beginning of my secondary school [kapa haka] journey.

    Kōrero tonu, kōrero tonu.

    Continue, continue.

    Ka piki ake ki tau kē atu? kia kore au e pau ngā miniti ki te pahupahu mō ia te tau, ka tōtika atu ki te tau i pai rawa atu ki au. He aha rā tērā tau, ko te tau rua mano ngahuru mā waru te tau

    Shall I move on to another year? I won’t waste time speaking about every year, so I’ll go straight to my favourite year. What was that year? It was 2018. The year…

    Rangitāne

    Rangitāne

    Āe āe koinā kē pea te.. 

    Yeah, perhaps that was…

    Te tino tau?

    The best year?

    te tino tau. Kāhore he…

    The best year. There isn’t a…

    He aha ai?

    Why?

    Tuatahi ko nga hoa i tū. Ka mutu, ko te aroha i rongo, ko te uaua i rongo, engari, ko te kounga i rongo anō hoki, me te whakaaro anō, kāhore he tāngata i tua atu i a rātou ki au, ki te whakapau werawera, ki te whakapau kaha i ngā parakatihi i parakatihitia e tātou,

    Firstly, my friends all stood. Furthermore, you felt the love, you also felt the difficulties, but you also felt the quality. In addition, to me, there was no one beyond that group who worked harder at our practices.

    Āe i tino wepua koutou i tēnā tau.

    Yes, you really got hammered that year.

    Ko te mea nui ki au ko te aroha i rongo i tēnā wā. Kua hono rawa, kua pēnei, kua pokohiwi ki te pokohiwi, tuarā ki te tuarā, kua whītiki tauā, ki au nei ko te aroha i rongo i tēnā tau, kāhore he tau i tua atu i tēnā ki au nei.

    The main thing for me was the love that was felt at that time. We got really close, we were shoulder to shoulder, back-to-back, we banded together. To me, it was love that was felt during that year. To me, there wasn’t a better year. 

    E tautoko ana tērā kōrero i tāu i kōrerotia i te timatanga rā, e hoki ana rā ki te whanaungatanga, i kaha rongo, āe kei te maumahara au ki ērā wā i tino kaha. I tērā tau tonu, he aha he tūranga whakahirahira ōu i tērā tau?

    I support what you said in the beginning. Going back to building kinship – you really felt that and I remember it was very strong back then. 

    In that year, what was one of the important positions you held? 

    Pēhea nei he aha te tūranga e kīa nei?

    What kind of position?

    He aha tō tūranga ki roto i tērā, nā reira i noho mai koe hei, hei tuakana whakaaweawe i te teina?

    What role did you hold? So, did you hold a senior member role who inspired the juniors? 

    Āe āe, nā reira i tēnā tau hoki i tū au hei tuakana, kaua mō te kapa haka anake, mō te kura katoa, nā reira, ki reira tino whanake ai i te āhuatanga o te tū tika o te tuakanatanga ki roto i au, ko au tēnā e hauhau ana ngā waewae o ōku teina, kia tika ai tātou, engari

    Yes, yes, so in that year, I was a senior member, not just in kapa haka, but for the whole school. So there was major development in how I carried myself regarding being a senior. I would be the one to correct my juniors so they’d be proper, but…

    He aha ngā wero ki roto i tērā mahi?

    What were the challenges in that role?

    Kāore e kore ko ngā wero i rongo i ōku tuakana nōku e tipu ana nē, tēnei mea te hianga, tēnei mea te kōrerorero, engari, ko ēnā momo āhuatanga i kaha rangona e au, me tōku kaha ki te whakatika i a rātou.

     

    Nā reira āe, e manawanui ana au ki ōku tuākana i tēnā momo āhuatanga, engari, kua rangona e au ki tēnā momo āhuatanga anō hoki, nā reira, āe.

    No doubt they were same challenges that my seniors felt when I was growing up, eh. Mischievousness, always talking. That’s the sort of thing I regularly experienced, so I’d always correct them.

     

     

    So yes, I have immense respect for my seniors when it comes to those things. And now I’ve also experienced those things, so yeah.

    Mā te hē, ka tika, koirā ngā kōrero ka puta nē, i ngā te whare o Rongokako “mā te hē ka tika, ki te hē te kotahi, kua hē te katoa” koirā ngā kōrero.

    By doing wrong, you will know what’s right. That’s the kind of narrative that’s pushed, right, in Te Whare o Rongokako, “If one does wrong, we have all done wrong.” That’s the statement.

    Āe, āe ēnā āhuatanga katoa kua rangona, āe engari, ki reira hoki te nuinga o ngā iho pūmanawa rātou mā e kaha tū pakari ai hei mata mōku, hei akoranga mōku anō hoki, pēnei i a Para, koinā te, tōna tau tuatahi i uru mai ia hei kaiwhakaako, hei kaiwhakawepu rānei.

     

    Ākene pea e tika tēnā ingoa hei tapainatanga mōna, engari āe, koia hoki tāku e tino manawanui ana ki tēnā tau.

     

    Nā runga i te nui o ngā iho pūmanawa. Kāti ake ko BJ tēnā i tū hei kaitātaki and koinā tōna tau tuarua, tuarua ia e noho ana ki waenganui i tō māua kura ka tiaki i tō tātou kura.

     

    Ko ia hoki tēnā i tū hei tino iho pūmanawa mōku, ko tōna tauira i whakatau i tēnā tau, e ārahi tonu ana ahau i ēnei o ngā rā.

     

    Nā reira, e mihi ana ki a ia me tōna pakari, tāna i aha…i ōkea ururoatia, i ruku i te ruku o Matauaua. Ko tēnā tauira, e whai tonu ana i au i ēnei o ngā rā anō hoki.

    Yes, yes, we heard all those things, yes. However, that’s also where most of my idols were, those who were at another level of performance who I could mirror, who I could also learn from. Like Para for example. That was the first year he came onboard as a tutor, or rather as a disciplinarian.

     

    Perhaps that title is better suited to him. However, yes, that’s also what I am grateful for regarding that year.

     

     

    How there were so many of my idols around. And so, it was BJ who stood as male leader, that was his, what, second year in that role? Secondly, he would stand in the middle of the school to look after our school.

     

    He was also one of my idols. The example he set that year still inspires me to this day.

     

     

    So, I acknowledge him and his stability. His ability to go forth and dive head-first into the difficulties placed in front of him. That’s the example I continue to follow today.

    Kia ora, e kōrero ana koe mō tēnei mea te tū tika, ki a koe, he aha te tāera tū o Kahungunu, he aha te momo tāera kua akongia e koe, i a koe e tipu ana, he aha ngā momo tāera, te wiri, te takahi?

    Thank you. You talk about something around ‘appropriate performance’. To you, what is the style of Kahungunu? What was the style that you learnt, when you were growing up, what were the styles, for example, wiri and takahi?

    E mōhiotia ko Matua Tūhoe tēnā e kaha whāngaihia ana ēnā momo mātauranga ki a mātou nē, kia mau hoki ki ēnā kōrero, taku wahine pūrotu, taku tāne pūrotu. Nā reira, me tika tō kawe i a koe anō, kia rerehua, kia pai, engari, kia whakatinana i te āhuatanga o Kahungunu whānui.

     

     

    It is known that it is Matua Tūhoe that constantly taught those skills to us. Holding on to the narrative, ‘my beautiful lady, my handsome man’. So, you must carry yourself appropriately. To be beautiful, to be pleasant, however, one must also embody all the traits belonging to Kahungunu, Kahungunu in its entirety.

    Nā reira, he [clean] pea te tuku i a koe anō nē. Kāti ake, ko te mea e kaha maumaharatia ana, e maumahara ana ahau, ko te tū i te taha haka nē.

    So, maybe it’s to be clean in presentation. And well, the thing that always comes to my mind is the haka stance.

    E kōrero ana koe mō tēnei mea te tū tika, me kōrero tāua, oh me kōrero koe, he aha te tū, he aha te momo tāera o Kahungunu, o te kura rānei, āe

    You’re talking about this ‘appropriate performance’ thing. So let’s talk about, well you talk about, what is the performance, what is the style of Kahungunu or of the school? Yeah.

    Nā reira ko tāku i rongo, ko tā Matua Tūhoe i whāngai ki a mātou o te kura, kia mau ki te kōrero “taku wahine pūrotu, taku tāne pūrotu”.

     

    Nā reira, me tika te kawe i a koe anō, me rerehua, me whakaniko anō i a koe anō, kia tū pakari anō hoki.

     

    Nā reira, me [clean] rawa atu te āhua. Me tēnei mea hoki, arā ko te tū ki te taha haka, ko tā Kahungunu he mau ki te whare, te hanga whare o te tū.

     

    Nā reira, ko ētahi o ngā tūnga ka kitea i te haka, ko te ue tika, ko te uehā, me te uenuku anō hoki.

     

    Koinā ngā momo taumata o te tū, anā ko te ue tika ka tōtika te tū, ko te uehā, ka paku hiki (heke), ka paku, poto ake i a koe anō, ka mutu, ko te uenuku, ka kaha kitea, ko te uenuku tēnā, āe

     

    Ka hanga whare rawa atu, ka tāpapa koe ki te papa. Koinā te āhuatanga i whāngaihia e Matua Tūhoe ki a mātou ki ōna tama i te rōpū. Nā reira, e mau tonu ana ki tēnā whakaaro, ka kore rawa e waikuratia.

    So, what I heard, what Matua Tūhoe taught us at school, was to hold on to the narrative ‘my beautiful lady, my handsome man’.

     

    So, you must carry yourself appropriately, it must be beautiful, you must adorn yourself so you can stand confidently.

     

    So, the look must be clean. Also, in regard to the haka stance, Kahungunu people stand like a meeting house.

     

     

    So, some forms of haka stance that can be seen are the ‘ue tika’, the ‘uehā’ and ‘uenuku’ as well.

     

     

    Those are the different areas of the stance. Ue tika is a straight standing stance. Uehā is to bend slightly, to make yourself shorter. And uenuku is to be seen. That is uenuku – yes.

     

     

    You make the shape of a house and are low to the ground. Those are the elements that Matua Tūhoe taught us, his boys in the group. So that remains with me, I’ll never forget it.

    I pēhea te mauri, i pēhea te wairua, i pēhea te tinana i a koutou e ako ana i ēnā momo tū, i ēnā momo tāera?

    What was the energy like, what was the feeling like, what was the body like when you learnt those stances, that kind of style?

    I pakaru katoa te tore i ēnā whakaakoranga ōna. I pakaru rawa atu anā ko waewae tēnā e wiriwiri ana i te mutunga iho. Ko tangi tēnā e puta ana i ētahi o ngā tamaiti. 

    We were completely wrecked by those teachings of his – completely wrecked. Legs were shaking at the end. Some kids were crying.

    Ētahi e wehe ana i te rōpū, ooh kāo

    And some were leaving the group – “Oh nah!”

    Āe, kua wehe ka kore rawa e hoki mai i tēnā mamae i rangona e rātou, engari, ko te mamae i rangona, ko te kounga o te tū, i puta.

    Nā reira, nā ēnā mamae, nā ēnā pakarutanga, i tū kounga, i tū pakari ai mātou otirā tātou.

    Exactly, some left never to return because of the pain they felt. However, you felt pain, but the result was quality performance. Therefore, through that pain and discomfort came a quality and strong performance from all of us.

    I te mutunga iho ka tū ana koutou ki te atamira i tutuki?

    In the end when you stood on stage, did you achieve [what you set out to do]?

    Ae, āe, ki au nei i tutuki āe, kia kore e whakarekareka i tō tātou kura, i tō māua kura anō hoki, ka waiho ēnā kōrero ki korā, kāti ake, kia mau ki te whakaaro, mā te tangata e mihi nei, nā reira, ko wai māua ki te whakareka i tō māua kura.

    Yes, yes, to me we achieved [our goal]. I won’t boast about our school, I’ll leave that there. 

    However, I’ll hold onto the notion that it is for others to acknowledge [you], so who are we to boast about our school.

    Koia koia, tēnā koe, whakaiti nei i au.

     

    Pēhea te taha waiata, he momo tāera waiata tō koutou? he aha ngā momo whakaakoranga, ngā wheako waiata i ako e koe?

    That’s true, thank you for humbling me. 

     

    How about singing? Did you have a singing style? What were the teachings and experiences that you learnt?

    Ka pono mai aku kōrero, e Ti, kāre au i te paku whakarongo atu ki ngā whakaakoranga reo waiata, nā runga i te whakaaro, ehara tēnei i te korokoro tuī.

     

    Nā reira, ki au nei i pēnei, ā, kātahi ka puta ki tēnā, ko tāku noa, he tuku i te reo waiata. Ki te hapa ka hapa, ki te whati ka whati, engari, he mātanga ake nei a Turei ki te hanga i te waiata, ki te hanga i te oro,

    To be honest, Ti, I didn’t listen at all to the singing lessons because, to me, I am not one with a melodious voice.

     

     

    So, for me, it went in one ear and out the other. I just sang. If I made a mistake, that was that. If I faltered, that was that. However, Tūrei is an exponent in regard to composing songs and arrangements.

    me mihi ka tika ki a ia, nōna anō i whanake i tō tātou reo waiata i tō tātou tuku i te oro o te waiata anō hoki.

    I must acknowledge him. He advanced our singing capabilities as well as our singing arrangements.

    Nā reira, ko ia tēnā, rāua ko Pi tēnā e kaha kawe i tēnā āhuatanga ki roto i tō tātou rōpū. Ko rāua tēnā, ki au nei kāhore he tua i a rāua mō tēnei mea te waiata, te tuku i te oro i te waiata anō hoki. Nā reira,

    So that was him, along with Pi who brought that skillset into our group. That’s them. To me, there is none better than them in regard to singing and arranging songs. So…

    Ki a koe, i whakatō e rātou te hunga pēnā, te hunga ako i ngā puna reo, i whakatō rātou i te whakapono ki roto i a koe? I te mea, kei te kōrero mai koe ehara tēnei i te tangata waiata, engari, kua rongo au i a koe, kei te mōhio au, i te whakarongo koe, i kōrero mai nei koe, kāore koe i te whakarongo engari, kei a koe ngā pūkenga

    To you, did they, those who taught you, instill confidence in you? Because, you’re saying that you’re not a singer, however, I’ve heard you. I know, you were listening. You mentioned you weren’t listening, but you have those skills.

    Kua mau kē pea, kua mau kē.

    Perhaps I grasped [those skills].

    Mō te hunga e whai ana i te ao haka, he aha ōu kupu akiaki ki te hunga e whakaaro pēnā ana mō te hunga e whakaaro ana ehara au i te kaiwaiata nā reira ka tahuri atu au, ‘Oh kāore au i te pīrangi mahi reo waiata i te mea ehara au i te kaiwaiata’.

     

    He aha ōu kupu whakaaweawe ki te hunga ka rongo i te āmaimai ki te waiata, ki te ako ki te waiata, he aha ngā kupu akiaki ki tērā hunga?

    For those following Te Ao Haka, what are your words of encouragement to those who are thinking that way? for those who think I’m not a singer, so they tune out, ooh i don’t wanna do vocals because I’m not a singer.

     

    What are your words of encouragement to those who feel anxious to sing, to learn to sing? What are your words of encouragement to that lot?

    Tuatahi ake, kaua e pēnei i a au. Ahakoa tē taea e koe te waiata, ehara i te mea me kaua koe e whakarongo. Heoi anō, ko te whāinga matua kia tautoko koe i tō rōpū. Nō reira, ahakoa ehara pea koe i te mātanga ki te waiata, te toki ki te waiata.

     

    Nā, ko te tautoko i tō rōpū me te whakatutuki i te whāinga kia ōrite te oro o te katoa, kia rongo i te kounga o tā te katoa whai wāhi atu, i te wāhi ki te waiata, i te wāhi ki te oro, i te wāhi ki te tuku. Nō reira, kaua e pēnei i a au e aro kore nei i te mea tē taea e koe te waiata.

    Firstly, don’t be like me, just cos you can’t sing doesn’t mean you shouldn’t listen, but in saying that the main goal is to have your rōpū’s back. So, even if you're not the sharpest singer, the flashiest singer.

     

     

    You know, having your groups back and achieving that end goal of everybody sounding the same, everybody sounding quality your contribution is key in terms of singing, in terms of sound and in terms of delivery as well. So don’t be like me and just tune out because you can’t sing.

    Āe whakapono nē, whakapono, whakarongo. Āe, kia ora i tēnā, i ēnā kōrero mō te waiata, nā reira, tamariki mā

    Yes, belief, eh, belief, listen. Yes, thank you for that perspective on singing. So, kids - 

    Tukuna tō reo

    Let your voice out

    Ki te whakaaro pēnā koe, te taea te waiata, nē whakarongo, whātoro atu ki ō kaiako I rēira rātou ki te hāpai.

    If you think that way, if you think you can’t sing, listen, reach out to your tutors, they will be there to help.

    Pai tū pai hinga

    No matter what.

    Āe, Nāwai ka oti. Kia ora, wharekura. Ināianei kōrerohia mai mō tēnei mea, i te mea he kaitātaki tāne o mua koe o tō tāua kura, kōrerohia mai mō tērā huarahi, he aha - He aha ētahi o ngā akoranga i runga i tērā huarahi?

     

    He aha o kare-ā-roto i te wā i tapaina ko koe te kaitātaki, i rite koe? ko wai te hunga rānei i hāpai ki te whakarite i a koe?

    Eventually, something will be achieved.Thank you. Wharekura. Now, tell me about this, since you were a past male leader of our school. Tell me about that path. What - What were some things that you learnt along the way?

     

    How did you feel when you were named male leader? Were you ready? Who were the people who helped you get ready?

    Nā reira, i te tau rua mano ngahuru mā iwa, koinā i tapaina māku te tūnga kaitātaki e whakakī. I te tuatahi, i whakakāhore au ki tēnā, ehara i te mea kāre aku whakapono, engari, he kaha nōku te oma kē atu mai ēnā momo tūnga.

     

    Nē, ko au tēnā e pirangi kaha nei te tū ki te rōpū noa kaua e arataki i te rōpū engari, tē taea te aha, nā reira, ko au i tū hei kaitātaki i tēnā tau, i te taha o Hemaima, ko ia te kaitātaki wahine i tērā wā.

    So, 2019, that’s when I was named to fill the male leader role. Initially I declined. Not because I didn’t believe in myself, but because I would always shy away from those sorts of roles.

     

     

    I’m one who wants to stand with the group, not to lead the group. But nothing could be done about it, so I ended up as the male leader alongside Hemaima, the female leader at the time.

    Ko te mea i kaha whakamataku i au, ko te whakaaro kua tū a Hemaima hei kaitātaki e hia kē nei ngā tau kua tū ia hei kaitātaki.

    What scared me the most was that Hemaima had been female leader for years and

    Me te whakaaro anō, ko au tēnei e timata ana, nā reira, kāore e kore kua kitea te taumata e rerekē ana, ko ia tēnā e kawe ana, ko au tēnā e kume ana kē pea. Engari i whakapono au ki tā Matua Tūhoe i whakatau ai, kāti ake, ki tā Matua Para i whakatau ai, nā reira, ko au tēnā i hikitia tēnā mānuka.

     

    Nāwai, nāwai, i puta tōku ihu i tēnā whakataetae, ka kore au e kiia te tūnga i riro i au, engari i puta tōku ihu i tēnā wā, kāti ake, he nui, he nui ngā tairo a Kupe i pāngia i tēnā wā, i pāngia au i tēnā wā.

     

    Nā runga i te whakaaro he āhua ngāwari tōku reo, nā reira, ka tuku ana tōku reo ā ka whango haere, ka whati haere, ka kore aku reo i te mutunga iho o te parakatihi, me hoki mai āpōpō, kātahi kua kore aku reo ki te tuku i te reo tātaki.

     

    Nā reira, he momo tairo a Kupe i pāngia au engari i te mutunga iho, i tutuki i te whai, ki au nei i eke hoki ki taumata kē atu, ki te taumata i hiahia a Matua Tūhoe a Matua Para, kāti ake i te kaupapa kē, āe.

    I was new to the role. So, no doubt the differences in caliber could be seen – she would be carrying and I’d be weighing us down. But I trusted in what Matua Tūhoe and Matua Para had decided, so I took up the challenge.

     

     

     

    In the end, I got through that competition. I won’t say where I placed, but I got through. There were so many ups and downs for me during that time.

     

     

    And because my voice was kind of soft. I would lose my voice by the end of every practice. I’d have no voice the next day to continue leading.

     

     

    So, that was a difficulty I faced. But in the end, I achieved the goal, and, to me, I leveled up to the level that Matua Tūhoe and Matua Para expected of me. But let’s talk about something else, yeah.

    Kaitātaki, rua mano rua tekau, Rāhui Pōkeka, he kaitātaki wahine hou me te mea hoki he hoa tata kōrua, kua tipuria mai te roko kura tae atu ki te wharekura, nā reira, tekau mā toru ngā tau i noho hoa piri tata kōrua ko Kaea i tērā, i a koutou e tipu ana ki roto i te kura. Nā reira, kōrerohia mai I pēhea te tātaki me tētahi o ō tino hoa tipu nō te kuratahi tae noa ki te wharekura?

    Leadership, 2020 Rāhui Pōkeka. There was a new female leader, and you were also good friends having been through school together, through to wharekura. So, for 13 years you and Kaea were good friends while you were growing up in school. So, tell me… What was it like leading with one of your best friends growing up from kuratahi all the way up to wharekura?

    Oh, i mīharo rawa atu, i taumata kē atu ngā kare ā-roto. Nā, ka tātaki koe ki tētahi e mōhio nei koe he toki, ka tātaki koe ki tētahi e mōhio nei koe kei a ia ngā pūkenga ka whakaaro ake koe, ‘Āe, ka pai tērā.’ Engari ka tātaki ana koe ki tētahi kua tipu tahi ki a koe, he rerekē noa atu te kare-ā-roto. 

     

    Nā, i mātua whai māua kia tautoko pai māua i a māua i te mea, ki a au, koirā tētahi o ngā terenga uaua i te wāhi ki te manawaroa me ngā akoranga. I te mea he terenga tino uaua.

     

    Ā, me te mōhio i ētahi wā, i te heke haere te mana, ā, i tīmata te rangirua mēnā i a māua ngā pūkenga ki te kawe i ērā tūranga o ngā kaitātaki o te rōpū.

     

    Nō reira, ko māua tonu ō māua kaiwhakamahara, ‘Āe e taea ana e māua, kei a māua.’ Ā, ko te tauutuutu ki a koe i ō koha mai ki a mātou.

     

    I whakaaro ake māua, heoi anō tā māua, kia kaha te kawe i te kapa, i te kaupapa, i ō koutou akoranga anō hoki.

     

    Ko te tae ki te atamira, ā, i te mea hoki ko tā māua tū whakamutunga nō te orokotīmatanga ki te kura ki te mutu ki te atamira, ka “whakamīharo”. Ki tēnei rā tonu, he tairongo tērā e kore e tino wehe i a koe.

    Oh, it was magnificent, it was a whole different feeling. You know, you lead with someone who you know is good and you lead with someone who you know has the goods and you think oh yea that’s alright but when you lead with someone you’ve basically grown up with it’s just a whole different feeling.

     

     

    And um, we were constantly, you know, making sure we had each other’s back because that was, I would say, one of the most challenging campaigns in terms of patience and teachings. Cos, it was a very hard campaign.

     

    And um you know as sometimes our mana was kind of like starting to drop and we were kinda starting to second guess, whether we were good enough to carry that position of a leader in the group.

     

    And so, we were also our constant reminders that “ye we can do it, ye we can do it, we got it”. And um it was also just to give back to you for everything you have given us.

     

    We thought the least we can do was to carry strong our group, the kaupapa and your fullas teachings as well.

     

     

    It was getting on that stage, and for it being our last stand from starting at kura to finishing it on that stage, it’s just “blows my mind”. Still to this day it’s kinda that feeling that doesn’t quite ever leave you.

    I a kōrua e tukituki ana ā kōrua whakaaro mēnā ka, you know kei a mātou te- Kei a mātou ngā pūkenga ki te… I a koe kōrero ana he aha te mea, i tō i a koutou? He aha ngā āhuatanga i puta ai koe i ērā whakaaro rangirua - a kōrua tahi. He aha i puta ai koe i tērā āhuatanga?

    As you two were working together to think whether, you know, ‘Do we have…’ Do we have what it takes to- Like you were saying. What was it that pulled you through? What was it that pulled you through those whakaaro when you were doubting yourself, both of you. What was it that pulled you through?

    Ki a au, e kore pea au e wātea ki te kōrero mō te katoa, heoi, ka tae te nuinga ki tētahi wāhi ka tīmata te rangirua, ka whakaaro ake ehara ko ia te tangata e tika ana mō te tūranga rā. Heoi, e kīia ana te kōrero: “He rā anō tōmuri te pō roa”.

    I think, I’m not sure if I can speak for everybody but, majority get to a point where they start to doubt themselves and believe that they're not the right person for this. However, there's that “Another day rises after the long night”. 

     He rā anō. Tērā pea he rā uaua, e ahu atu ana pea ngā kohete katoa ki a koe, ā, hei te rangi whai muri mai, kua paruhi kē. Nō reira, ahakoa e koruruki ana, e āwha ana, ka whiti mai anō te rā. Nō reira, āe, me koke tonu, puritia ngā akoranga i whakaakona ki a koe me te whakapono ki a koe anō.

     

    I te mea, ki te kore koe e whakapono ki a koe anō, me kaua pea koe e tū, he aha koe e tū ai ki te kore koe e whakapono ki a koe anō.

     

    Ki a au, koirā te take matua ka mahi kapa haka te tangata, e whakapono ana rātou ki a rātou anō, ā, e hiahia ana rātou ki te whakaatu atu ki te tangata ko wai rātou. Nō reira, āe, koinā anō tāku ki tēnā momo āhuatanga.

    There's always another day you might be just having a bad day, you might be getting all the growling in that day next day and all of a sudden, it’s all rainbow. So, you know just cos sometimes it’s stormy, stormy weathers there’s always sunshine after it. So yea just persevere, holdfast to the teachings you’ve been taught and believe in yourself.

     

     

    Because well, if you don’t believe in yourself then you shouldn’t really stand well why bother standing if you don’t believe in yourself.

     

    And I think that is the main reason why people do kapa haka is cos they believe in who they are and they want to show people who they are. So, yea, that’s all I have to say about that.

    Kia ora i ēnā kōrero, me te ātaahua hoki. Kei te tata pau te wā, engari, ko wai ngā tāngata kua noho hei iho pūmanawa mōu i roto i tō ao haka?

     

    Ko wai ngā tāngata i noho hei ihopūmanawa ki a koe? Ko tō whānau, ō kaumātua, ngā kōrero mō ō tīpuna, ō kaiako, ō hoa?

     

    Ko wai ngā tāngata i whakaawe i a koe i tō ara o te ao haka?

    Thank you for that recount, and a beautiful recount at that. We have nearly run out of time, however, who are your idols in your te ao haka journey?

     

    Who are the people that you’ve looked up to, were they your whānau, your kaumātua, your stories of your tīpuna, your kaiako, your hoa. 

     

    Who have the people who have been an influence for you in your te ao haka journey?

    Mokori anō, ka mihia tuatahi, te katoa te tini ngeangea, te makiu tāngata kua whāngaihia ngā mātauranga ki au, mokori anō ka mihia rātou. Ka kore rawa tēnei kākano e puāwai ki te kore ā rātou whakawai.

     

    Engari, kia mihia nuitia ko Matua Para, ko ia tēnā i kaha penapena i au, i kaha wepua i au, engari i kaha aroha i au kia haere tonu i tēnei haerenga ōku.

     

    Me te whakaaro anō, ko ia tēnā ka kore rawa e huri tuarā mai ki au ahakoa he aha te wā i te pō  i te tekau mā rua karaka i te pō ka tuku karere mai “oh kei te pai koe, me haere tonu koe” aha atu, aha atu.

     

    Ko ia tēnā i kaha pēnāpēnā i au, mei kore ake ia ka kore rawa tēnei e tū pakari i tēnei rā, nā reira mokori anō, ka mihia tēnā nanakia. 

     

    Tuarua ko Matua Tūhoe. Nōna anō te whakaiti i whāngai mai, nōna anō ngā āhuatanga katoa o te ao haka i whāngai mai. Ko ia te haputa pea o ēnei mātauranga ōku.

     

    Kōkā Maks me mihia ia anō hoki, he rerekē tēnā tangata e mōhiotia ana e koe

    First, I must acknowledge the many people who have shared their knowledge with me, the first acknowledgements must go to them. This seed would never have flourished if it wasn’t for their nurturing.

     

     

    However, I must really thank Matua Para. He really cared and pushed me, but he looked after me and made sure I continued with this journey.

     

    Also, he’d never turn his back on me, no matter the time of night. It would be 12 at night and he’d message me saying, ‘You’re alright, you need to keep going’, among other things.

     

     

    He really took me under his wing. If it wasn’t for him, I wouldn’t be standing strong today. So I must acknowledge that mischief.

     

    Secondly, Matua Tūhoe. He taught me humility and everything about te ao haka. He is perhaps the main contributor of the knowledge I now have.

     

    Kōkā Muks, I must also acknowledge her. She is different – like you know -

    He momo, he momo ae. 

    Yes, she is one of a kind.

    He momo tēnā wahine, 

    She is one of a kind -

    Tō tino kaiako

    Your favourite teacher.

    Āe koinā tāna “ko au tō best friend, e kare”, 

    “e kare kāhore.

    ” Engari ki te taha…

    Yes, that’s what she says, ‘I’m your best friend, mate.’

    ‘Nah, mate.’

    However, when it comes to -

    Kai? 

    Food?

    Āe, āe pono pono, ngā kai..

    Yes. Honestly, food - 

    Haerenga ki te toa?

    Rides to the shop?

    Ngā kai i kainga e tātou ka mihia e koe.

     

    Engari, ko te taha whakangahau anō hoki, āe tēnā wairua ngahau ōna, ka kaha rangona e te tī e te tā, ka kaha kitea e te tini e te mano.

     

    Engari, ko tēnā āhuatanga kua āhua tōia mai i a ia, nā reira, ka mihia ia anō hoki, me koutou anō hoki, ā rātou huruhuru, ā rātou huruhuru i te waewae.

     

    Ko koutou hoki tēnā i kaha penapena i au, kāti ake, i a mātou katoa kua puta i te rōpū. Kua tū pakari mātou i a koutou me ā koutou whakaakoranga anō hoki. Āe koinā noa.

    All the food we ate. Thank you.

     

    But, for being fun, too. The fun side she has – everyone can hear and see it.

     

     

    That’s what she brought with her, so I must also acknowledge her. As well as you guys, their colleagues.

     

     

    You also helped me and everyone else who has come through the group. We are resolute because of you and your teachings. Yeah, that’s all.

    Te Kikiri o Te Rangi, Te Rerenga Kotuku. 

    Te Kikiri o Te Rangi, Te Rerenga Kotuku. 

    Te tūnga o te tūnga.

    The performance of all performances.

    Kāore tō ara haka i mutu ki te wharekura. I haere tonu koe, I haere tonu koe and kua tū koe ki Te Matatini, kōrero mai mō tēnā.

     

    I pēhea, i pēhea tō ara haka e haere ana mai i te Kura Kaupapa Māori ki te kapa haka pakeke. He aha, he aha tērā. I pēhea tērā?

    Your haka journey didn’t stop at wharekura, you’ve stood at Te Matatini. Tell me about that.

     

     

    What was it like, what was your haka journey like going from kura kaupapa Māori and then being introduced into senior kapa haka, adult teams. What is that, what was that like?

    I rerekē, i tino rerekē. Tuatahi ake, he hāneanea tēnā i ngā whakaakoranga kura tuarua, i ngā parakatihi kura tuarua.

     

    Nā, mēnā koe ko te tauira i te kura tuarua, e tika ana me mahi koe i tā te kaiako i kōrero ai.

     

    Heoi, i ohorere au i te hāneanea. Ehara i te hāneanea, engari, he tau ngā kapa Matatini.

     

    E āhua pēnei ana, ko koe tōu anō tangata, he pakeke koe, nō reira i tōna tikanga māu anō koe e whakahaere.

     

    It was different, it was very different. First of all, it is quite relaxed compared to secondary teaching secondary practices.

     

    You know you got the, you're a student in secondary so by right what the teacher says you do.

     

    But I was actually quite surprised on how relaxed it is, it’s not relaxed but how tau it is in Matatini based teams.

     

    And it’s kinda more you’re, your own person, you’re an adult so, you should be able to carry yourself.

    Āe, kua tae mai koe me ngā pūkenga, me ngā tūāpapa.

    Yes, you’ve come with the skills and foundation.

    Āe me tēnā whakaaro anō hoki, ehara i te mea i haere, me te kore mōhiotanga ki tēnei mea te ao haka ay.

     

    Nō reira, ahau nei, ehara i te mea kei te whakakūmara au i a au anō, heoi, i mihia au i taku taenga atu ki ētahi rōpū nā runga i ō whakaakoranga ki a mātou i mua, ā, ehara i te mea i te haere puhi atu ki te haka, ehara i te mea he tangata hou ki te haka, he tauhou.

     

    Nō reira, ki a au, he wheako rerekē, ā, e haka tonu ana ahau ki tēnei rangi tonu, ā, kua kore e taea e au tēnei ara ki te kore ko ō whakaakoranga ki a au, ki a mātou. Nō reira…

     

    E whakaaro ake ana ahau koirā tētahi o ngā take e haere tonu ana au, i te mea e pai ana taku kuhu ki tētahi kapa me te whakaaro ake, ‘Oh he mōhioranga ōku mō tēnei, mō tēnā, ā…’

    Yes, that as well. It’s not like you turn up without knowing anything about kapa haka, eh?

     

     

    So, I not to be a bit of a kūmara but I was praised by a couple of groups on my arrival because of what you had taught us prior, and so it wasn’t like they were getting a fresh mind in hakas, they weren’t getting a whole new person a fresh, a fob.

     

    So, I think it was, it was a different experience and I still carry on doing hakas to this day and I would definitely not be able to make it through if it weren’t for what you taught me and taught us as well, so.

     

    I think that is one of the main reasons why I carry on doing it, is cause I can go into a group and say ‘oh I have a reasonable amount of knowledge behind this, behind that and then… ‘

    Kua kore e haere me te rae anake.

    You didn’t go empty handed.

    Āe āe āe tika tāu, kua kore e haere me te hinengaro kore noa. Nā reira, koinā noa.

     

    I tū au ki te taha o Te Rerenga Kotuku ki Te Matatini rua mano tekau mā iwa me Te Kikiri anō hoki, i te tau rua mano rua tekau, ki Wairarapa, tēnā regionals i whakatūria ki konā.

    Yes, yes, you’re right. I didn’t go empty-minded. That’s all.

     

    I stood with Te Rerenga Kōtuku at Te Matatini 2019 and Te Kikiri [o te Rangi] and the 2020 regionals held in Wairarapa.

     

     

    Kua tata pau te wā, e rima miniti e toe ana. Mō ēnei mutunga rima miniti E toru āwhina ka hoatu e koe ki ā tātau children that are studying Te Ao Haka.  He aha te whakahirahira o te ao haka, o te kapa haka?

    We’re nearly at the end of our allocated time, we’ve got five minutes. For these remaining five minutes 3 pieces of advice you will give to our, what would you give to our tamariki e whai ana i te huarahi o te ao haka.  Why te ao haka, why kapa haka?

    Kia toru āwhina, mātauranga rānei, kia whakaarotia ake. Tuatahi, kia manawaroa i te mea ehara te ao haka me te mahi kapa haka i te ara māmā noa iho. Māku tērā kōrero ināia tonu nei.

     

    Ahakoa haere koe ki hea, ahakoa tū koe mō tēhea kapa, e kore e māmā - ā-tinana, ā-hinengaro, ā-wairua anō hoki.

     

    Kua rongo ahau i tērā, nā reira he mea nui te manawaroa. Me tuwhera hoki te hinengaro i te mea ka nui tāu e ako ai, ehara i te mea e herea ana anake ki te kapa haka, ki te waiata, ki te haka, ki te tū rānei, ko te mātauranga kē o roto i te ao haka te mea nui.

     

    Te orokohanga mai o tēnei mea te haka, ngā momo āhuatanga o tēnā iwi, o tēnā iwi.

     

    Nā reira ko aua mea katoa, ngā momo mātauranga kei te ao haka, me pupuri, me whakatinana.

     

    Ka tino hōhonu i ōna wā, hōhonu rawa atu, engari me tuwhera te hinengaro, me rite kia akohia, he pērā rawa te nui o te mātauranga kei te ao haka.

    Three pieces of information or knowledge, interesting. First of all, probably be to persevere cause your journey in te ao haka and mahi kapa haka is not gonna be an easy one. I can tell you right now.

     

    No matter where you go, no matter what team you stand for it is not gonna be easy, physically, mentally and emotionally.

     

    I’ve experienced it firsthand, so perseverance is one. I think to be open minded as well cause you will learn a lot, it’s not just restricted to doing kapa haka, it’s not just about singing, haka, and performing but it’s the knowledge which te ao haka holds.

     

    The origins of this thing, of haka, and the various characteristics of each iwi.

     

    So, all of those, the different bodies of knowledge that te ao haka hold are what you have to, not maintain but also portray.

     

    It can get quite deep, deep real deep but yea, just go in open minded and be ready to be educated as well, cause the amount of knowledge that te ao haka holds.

    He whānui

    Is vast.

    He whānui rawa atu, ka tika.

     

    Whakaaro whakamutunga, me whakapono. Me haere me te whakapono, ki te tīmata te riro o te whakapono, me hiki ake anō, me haere tonu, i te mea me pērā e rangatira ai tō tū i te ao haka.

    Ka āhua kitea tērā i ētahi rōpū e whakapono ana ki tō rātau kounga.

    It’s really vast, right.

     

    And lastly, I think just belief. Go in with belief and if you start to drop your belief, pick that right back up and carry on, because I’m telling you right now, in order to present yourself well in te ao haka. Which you can kinda see in certain groups they believe in their quality.

    Ā rātau mahi

    What they’re doing.

    Ki a au, koirā te rerekētanga o te rōpū autaia me te rōpū pai rawa atu.

    And I think that’s what separates them from being a good team and a great team.

    Kia ora.

    Thank you.

    Ko te whakapono te rōpū ki a ia anō, ki ō rātau kaiako anō hoki, ki a rātau anō hoki, mā tērā whakapono ka tino eke rawa atu, ka tuku koe i tō katoa.

    Is the belief that a group has in their peers, in their tutors as well as in themselves, and I think from that belief you get the best performance, you get the best ah you give the best as well.

    Kia ora me manawatītī, me ngākau māhaki, me te whakapono. Ki a au, he mea nui whakaharahara aua mea e toru. Āe e tautoko ana i ō kōrero. 

     

    E rongo whānuitia ana tēnei kōrero, kapa haka will get you nowhere. Tuatahi, e whakapono ana koe ki tēnā?

    Mm, thank you, perseverance – manawa tītī. Open minded – ngākau māhaki. And believe – whakapono. I think those are 3 very very important factors to have. Yes, I support what you’ve said.

     

    The following statement is heard widely, ‘Kapa haka will get you nowhere.’ First off, do you believe that?

    Tēnā pōhēhē tēnā. 

    That’s totally incorrect.

    Koia, e tautoko ana au 

    Exactly, I agree.

    Tenā pōhēhē tēnā.

    That’s totally incorrect.

    Kua kawea koe ki hea e te kapa haka? He aha rānei ētahi wāhi ka kawea koe ki reira e te kapa haka?

    Where has kapa haka taken you or where can kapa haka take you?

    Tuatahi rā, he hua tonu ngā wāhi ka tae atu koe. Nā te kapa haka. Hei tauira, kua tae tahi tāua ki tāwāhi ki te whakatairanga I te kapa haka. Kua tae rā ki Hawaii, ki Las Vegas, ki Los Angeles, ki te whakatairanga I te āhua o kōnei me te whakaatu I tō tātau ahurea. 

     

    Kua tae ahau ki Aotearoa whānui nā ngā kaupapa huhua, kaupapa rerekē, e kawe nei tēnei kaupapa kapa haka, nā reira tē aro i a au ko wai e kī ana he hua kore tō te whai i tēnei kaupapa, māku tonu e mea atu he hua nui.

     

    Ehara koia anake, ko te mātauranga anō tētahi mea nui, ka eke rawa atu. Te rahi o te mātauranga, kia kī rā ahau i konei, he nui te mātauranga kei roto i te ao haka.

    Well first of all, kapa haka can take you a lot of places. For example, you and I both we’ve been overseas to promote kapa haka for kapa haka journeys. We’ve been over to Hawaii, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, just to promote what it’s like here and what our culture is. 

     

    It’s taken me all over New Zealand in terms of different events, different kaupapa, taken by kapa haka, so I have no idea whose saying it can’t take you nowhere but I can guarantee you it does. 

     

     

    Not only that but it can also take you, in terms of knowledge, very far. The amount of knowledge, and I cannot stress this enough, the amount of knowledge that te ao haka pertains is.

    Ka hora hoki nē?

    And provides aye?

    Me rahi tonu tō kete i te mea ka tere kī, ka pūrena i tōna otinga iho. Kāore he wāhi e kore koe e tae ake nā te ao haka.

    You better have a big bag ready because, you’re about to fill that up really quick and overflow it.  There is no place that te ao haka can’t take you.

    Mā te kapa haka koe e kawe ki te ao.

    Kapa haka can take you around the world.

    Arā te kōrero, te ao haka.  Ko te haka e kawe ana i a tātou ki te ao, ko te ao e tō mai ki a mātou ki te mātaki i te haka hoki.

     

    E tautoko ana au i tō whakatau, kāore au i te whakapono ki tērā kōrero, engari, kia rongo ngā tauira, he aha ngā hua ka puta ina ka whai rātou i te ao haka. 

     

    Ka pai, mā te haka koe e kawe ki te ao, e kawe ki te motu katoa ka tūtaki koe ki ngā tangata rerekē o te ao nē.   

     

    I pēhea ngā whakaaro o ngā tāngata nō tātau i tāwāhi, he aha ētahi mea i kite ai koe, i pēhea mai rātau ki tō tātau Māori culture?

    And thus, the name ‘Te Ao Haka’. It is kapa haka taking us to the world, and the world comes to us to watch kapa haka as well. 

     

    I support your viewpoint; I also don’t agree with that statement. However, just so the students can hear, what outcomes can they expect if they pursue Te Ao Haka?

     

    Ok yep, haka can take you around the world, it can take you around the country and you meet people from around the world, yes?

     

    What were people’s reactions like when we were overseas, what were some things that you saw, how did they react and respond to our ahurea Māori?

    Tuatahi rā, ko te nuinga he tūruhi, nā reira…’hei aha koa, he aha rā ngā hua o tērā pito o te ao’ heoi, nō te tūnga ake, ka heke ngā roimata i te tūrangahākoa, ā, ka…

    Well first of all, majority are tourists right so, everyone there.. ‘oh well, I wonder what that place in the worlds got to offer’ however when we stood up, nothing but tears and joy and real like…

    Ohorere nē?

    Surprised, eh?

    Āe, i te mea kāore te nuinga i te mōhio koirā te āhua o konei, ehara i te kutikuti hipi noa iho… me ērā mea.

    Yea because a lot of people don’t know that this is what it’s like here, it’s not just sheep shearing and...that stuff

    Te noho ki rō tēneti.

    Living in tents

    Koia hoki. He ao noa atu kei tua o tā rātau e kite ana, he ao kāore e tino whakatairangatia ana, ka nui rā taku whakamihi ki a koutou e whakanui nei i tēnei ao kia mārama kehokeho ai te tangata ki ōna āhuatanga katoa…

    Yea, pono. So, yea there’s a whole other world behind the world that they can see and that is the world that does not get promoted a lot and I think, you fullas promoting this is just beautiful cause now people understand comprehensively, what this ao is about and what this kaupapa…

    Comprehensively...kōrero

    Comprehensively. Speak!

    Ehara i te mea koirā anake, i ōna wā ka kawea koe e te kaupapa nei ki te ao o te whaiāipo, kua tūtaki ahau ki taku hoa, ā, ka nui taku aroha ki a ia. Nā reira mehemea koirā tāu e hiahia nā, , haramai ki tēnei ao, haramai ki tēnei ao.

    Not only that, but it can also take you into places of romance, I’ve met my partner which we have been together and love dearly. So, if that’s a place you’re looking to gocome along, welcome to this world.

    Arā tētahi hua e hika mā. Can even find aroha ki roto i ngā mahi haka. Me te ātaahua hoki kua kite au i a kōrua e tipu matomato ana me tō kōrua aroha, i reira au, i tō kōrua piri tahi, ko au tētahi o te hunga e kaha. ‘He rawe, he rawe kōrua!’

    There’s another benefit, my friends. You can even find love by doing kapa haka. And how beautiful, I’ve seen you two grow and your love grow too. I was there when you two initially got together. I was one of the many saying, ‘Great! You two are awesome.’

    Anā ko te taumautanga.

    Yes. Finding love.

     

    Āe, koinā te hua kua puta, me te ātaahua i te wā e tū ngātahi ana kōrua ki te haka, he tino ātaahua, rangatahi tonu ana, ka noho hei iho pūmanawa mā ō kōrua teina i ngā kura o Te Wairoa, o Heretaunga, he hua kua puta i te kura.

     

    He kōrero anō, he kōrero anō ōu. He kōrero atu anō kua mahue, hei tāpiri rānei ki ēnei kōrero?

     

    Yes, that’s the outcome. And it’s so beautiful to watch you two perform together, it’s so beautiful. And you’re still young, but you are hero’s to your juniors at your respective schools, Te Wairoa and Heretaunga. You are products that have come out of your schools.

     

    Do you have anything else to add? Is there anything else we’ve missed out that you might wanna put into your kōrero?

    He paku āki tēnei noa, mēnā koe he nanakia, he hianga pēnei i au.

     

    Kāti ake, mēna he tamaiti nanakia tāhau, tēnā tuku atu ia ki tēnei mea te ao haka. Kāore e kore ka kitea te huritanga, te whanokē ka tipu i roto i a ia. 

     

    Ka mutu, ka kitea te rangatira ka pua mai i roto i a ia. He aha au e kīa nei ēnā kōrero, ko au tēnā, tētahi o ngā hua, ko au tēnā i nanakia rawa atu.

     

    Āhua haututū ana ahau i te wā o taku nohinohitanga, heoi nā te ao haka ahau i whakapakeke, kua tipu, ā, kua tangata kē. Kua rerekē noa atu i taku haututūtanga o tērā wā.

    Just a little encouragement, if you are a mischief person like me,

     

    Or, if you have a mischief child, guide them to Te Ao Haka. There is no doubt that you will see a change in their behaviour.

     

    Furthermore, you will see a leader being made. Why do I say this? Because that’s me, I’m an example, I was really mischief.

     

    I was a little mischief one when I was younger, however, because of te ao haka I’ve matured, I’ve grown and it has changed me a lot. In terms of what I was, the little gremlin I use to be

    Mm āe

    Mm, yes. 

    Nā reira mehemea he tamaiti hīanga tāu, ko taku akiaki kia tukua ki tēnei kaupapa - ka kitea te rerekētanga.

    So, if you do have any tamaiti that are mischief that are hianga I encourage you to send them to this kaupapa and you will see a difference.

    Kua rongo koutou i konei, e te whānau.

     

    Nā reira he pai tērā kōrero hei whakakapi i tā tāua pahupahu i tēnei rangi. E tika ana mokori anō, kia mihia koe Taupiri te maunga Petera. Raukura o Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga, kaihaka o nāianei e whakakanohi nei i a Ngāti Kahungunu whānui, e mihi ana ki a koe mō ngā kōrero ātaahua e pārekareka ana ki te taringa, ki te ngākau haka.

     

    Mō te aha te take, mō ā tātou tamariki e tipu matomato mai ana ki roto i ngā kura puta noa i te motu, nā reira, mai i Te Tāhuhu o te Mātauranga, mai i te ao haka e mihi ana, e mihi ana. Kāre e ārikarika ngā mihi ki a koe, e whakawātea mai nei i a koe kia hora ēnei kōrero hei painga mā ā tātou tamariki. Nā reira tēnā koe, tēnā koe e te nanakia, tēnā rawa atu koe.

    You heard it here e te whānau,

     

    Well, I think that’s a great place to end our discussion today. It is only right to thank you, Taupiri te Maunga Petera. A graduate of Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Ngāti Kahungunu ki Heretaunga, a performer who now represents the entirety of the Ngāti Kahungunu area, my acknowledgements to you for the beautiful discussion that was pleasant to the ear and to the haka-loving soul.

     

    For what purpose? For our children who are growing up in schools all over the country. So, from the Ministry of Education, from Te Ao Haka, thank you, thank you. We cannot thank you enough for making yourself available to share your thoughts to benefit our children. So, thank you, thank you, mischief, thank you.

    Ka tau.

    It is done.

    Taupiri and wahine stand at the top level of auditorium and perform haka with actions to accompany depicting the words. 

    Close ups of multiple shots of carvings, Birds eye view pan shot of green hills with a river in the foreground. Low close-up view of a river with trees in the background, followed by multiple shots of more of the same river. Panned shot of the ocean with a cliff island in the middle. A close up of a large tree trunk debris on the beach with the same cliff island in the distance. Close up shot of the tree debris trunk where it has snapped. The beach with the ocean in the background with waves breaking on the shore. Close up shot of a carving. Black background screen with the words “Ministry of education, Te Tāhuhu o te Mātauranga” displayed.

    [ Accordion ]

    [With music playing in the background] 

    Being displayed are video images Waitangi Treaty Grounds and northland beaches. Next is a a close up of the wharf beach and the road sign for Kaikohe. Videos of monuments from the north and the whare Runanga at Waitangi Treaty Grounds then back to beaches and a close up on the carved pou. Flicking from images of carvings and beaches with sunsets. Then there is a short snippet of a mural on a street with people walking before shooting to a shot of the Mangamuka Radio station, then the welcome sign in Kaitaia and the road sign of Doubtless Bay and Bay of Islands ending with a shot of the Tino rangatiratanga flag before the final shot of Waitangi with Te Tai Tokerau title. The intro closes off with text “Te Ao Haka” accompanied by the Te Ao Haka logo.

    Te Reo Māori

    Te Reo Pākehā

    Kua ū nei a Aotea mai Te Tai Hauāuru tatū mai ki Te Tai Tokerau. Taranaki maunga nekeneke atu kia piri mai ki a Hikurangi, ki a Manaia. Ko te uri tēnei o Turi a Rongorongo e piri nei ki ngā uri a Reitu, a Reipae, ko te mauri o tēnei ariki, ko te mauri o ēnei tauira e mihi kau atu ana ki a kōrua. Nau mai, piki mai, kake mai ki tēnei hōtaka e kīa nei ko te ao ‘aka. Tēnā whakamārama mai ko wai koe, nō ‘ea koe.

    My canoe, Aotea, has arrived from the West Coast and reached the lands of the North. The mountain of Taranaki has moved to join Hikurangi, and Manaia. I am the descendant of Turi a Rongorongo, connecting with the descendants of Reitu, of Reipae, this is the excellence which inspires, the excellence, which is superior, I acknowledge you both. Welcome to this show, titled Te Ao Haka. Now I call upon you both to explain to the viewers who you are, where you are from, and let’s start with you, my senior.

    Karangahia ai ōku maunga whakahī, i ōku maunga kōrero. I ngā pou o te whare tapu o Ngāpuhi. Manaia titiro ki Rākaumangamanga, Rākaumangamanga titiro ki Tokerau, Tokerau titiro ki Maungataniwha, Maungataniwha titiro ki Panguru ki Papata, Panguru Papata titiro ki Whiria te paiaka o te riri, te kawa o Rāhiri, Whiria titiro ki Te Ramaroa, Te Ramaroa titiro ki Pūhanga-tohora, Pūhanga-tohora titiro ki Maunganui, Maunganui titiro ki Tutamoe, Tutamoe titiro ki Manaia. Ēnei maunga i rohe pōtaengia te whare tapu o Ngāpuhi. Mai Tāmaki Te Reinga, Ko Ranginui tonu te tuanui ko Papatuānuku te paparahi. Ko mao tēnei ko ngā uri o rātou mā, ngā maramara iho o te whare tapu o Ngāpuhi. 

     

    Ko Pouerua te maunga 

    Ko Waitangi te awa

    Ko Ngātokimatawhaorua te waka

    Ko Te Tii te marae

    Ko Te Tiriti o Waitangi te whare tupuna

    Ko Ngāti Rāhiri me Te Kauimua ōku hapū

    Ko Ngāpuhi te iwi

    Ko Isaiah Apiata taku ingoa, tēnā koutou

    I call upon my proud mountains, my mountains full of stories, the pillars of the sacred house of Ngāpuhi. From Manaia look to Rākaumangamanga, from Rākaumangamanga look to Tokerau, from Tokerau look to Maungataniwha, from Maungataniwha look to Panguru, to Papatā, from Panguru Papatā look to Whiria the seat of military prowess, the custom of Rāhiri, from Whiria look to Te Ramaroa, from Te Ramaroa look to Pūhanga-tohora, from Pūhanga tohora look to Maunganui, from Maunganui look to Tutamoe, from Tutamoe look to Manaia. These mountains encircle the sacred house of Ngāpuhi, from Tāmaki Te Reinga, Ranginui is the roof, Papatūānuku is the foundation. We two, are their descendants, the remnants of the sacred house of Ngāpuhi.

     

    Pouerua is the mountain.

    Waitangi is the river.

    Ngātokimatawhaorua is the canoe.

    Te Tii is the marae.

    Te Tiriti o Waitangi is the ancestral house.

    Ngāti Rāhiri and Te Kauimua are my subtribes.

    Ngāpuhi is the tribe.

    My name is Isaiah Apiata, greetings to you all.

    Ka titiro atu au ki ōku maunga, ko Puketohunoa ko Panguru Papata e kore e nekenekehia. Ka rere ngā wai ki ōku awa, ko Taumarere ko Waihou e kore e mimiti. Ka hangaia ōku mātua tupuna ki ngā wharenui ko Ngāti Manu, ko Waimirirangi e kore e warewaretia. Ka hoea rā ōku mātua tupuna i te waka o Ngātokimatawhaorua. I karapoti nei i ngā hapū, ko Ngāti Manu, ko Te Waiariki, ko Ngāpuhi nui tonu te iwi. Ki te taha o tōku pāpā, ko Tāne Thomas tōku matua. Ki te taha o tōku māmā ko Karen Wynyard tōku whaea. Ko Muritere Apiata tēnei e mihi nei.

    I look to my mountains, Puketohunoa, Panguru Papatā, that will never be moved. The waters of my river flow, those being Taumārere and Waihou, that will never dry up. My ancestors built the meeting houses of Ngāti Manu and Waimirirangi that will never be forgotten. My ancestors rowed the canoe of Ngātokimatawhaorua. I am surrounded by my subtribes, Ngāti Manu and Te Waiariki, Ngāpuhi Nui Tonu is the tribe. My father is Tāne Thomas. My mother is Karen Wynyard. My name is Muritere Apiata, and I greet you all.

    Tēnā rawa atu kōrua, me te maringa nui nā mātou kia tae pai mai nei kōrua ki te ora nei i ngā w’eako i ngā kōrero e hāngai pū nei ki ō kōrua ao haka. 

     

    Nō reira, nōku te maringanui me te hōnore ki te noho tahi nei ki a kōrua tahi i tēnei rā me te kapo ake i ō kōrua wheako, me tā kōrua whai wāhi atu ki te ao haka mai i te whānautanga rā anō, ā, ā mohoa nei. Nā reira, kia kōrero mai kōrua mō te wā tuatahi i whai wāhi atu ai, i whai wheako ai rānei ki te ao haka.

    Greetings to you both, we’re so fortunate that you have both come to share your experiences in te ao haka.

     

     

    So, the privilege and honor is mine to sit here with you both today and to be able to extract no doubt the experiences and the collective engagements that you have had i roto i te ao haka from birth to today. And so, I'd like to get you to share with me, what are some of your earliest experiences or exposures i roto i te ao haka

    Nā runga i te mana o tō pātai, e tika ana māku e whakanuia ōku kaumātua ōku kuia. Nā rātou ano te whenu o te whakapapa, te whenu o te haka, te whenu o te reo, te whenu o tātou tikanga, o tātou kawa i pupuri mai anō, mai anō, mai anō tae tonu mai ki a tāua, otirā ki a tātou e āta whakawhiti whakaaro tēnei rā. Nā konā au ka mihia ki ō tātou kaumātua kei reira te puna o te kii, te puna o te kōrero, me te puna o te mātauranga. Nōku anō te whiwhi i taku whakatupuranga ake. E noho au ki ngā rekereke ōku mātua, ōku tupuna i roto i te whare kaumātua o te Tiriti o Waitangi.

    Ia wiki, ia Waitangi mai te tahi ki te ono kite katoa au ngā mananui o te ao Māori whanga mai ki runga i Te Tii marae. Koia au e kite i te pūkana, i te putē o te karu, o te whātero o te arero, te wiri, te haka, te mōteatea. Nā konā au i ngana, i tinga taku hiahia kia nōhia e au ki roto i tēnei ao o te haka. Engari ko ngā ihorei, ko ngā ruānuku, ko ngā maruwehi nō rātou tonu tērā e whakaatu[1] [2]  mai nā ki au mai anō tae tonu mai ki tēnei rā. 

    Given the nature of your question, it is only right that I acknowledge my elders. For it was them who held the strands of genealogy, of haka, of the language, of our customs, of our rituals, from long ago right through to us both, to us all sharing our thoughts today. Thus, I acknowledge our elders, the source of the word, the source of discussion, the source of knowledge. I experienced a privileged upbringing. I sat at the feet of my forefathers, of my ancestors in my ancestral house, Te Tiriti o Waitangi. Every Waitangi, from one to six I would see all of the stalwarts of the Māori world waiting to come on to Te Tii marae. That’s where I was exposed to pūkana, to the wide-eyed stare, to the protruding of the tongue, to the quivering of the hands, the haka, the mōteatea. That is where I became eager, and it became likely that I would frequent this world of haka. However, it was those leaders, those sages, those esteemed ones who displayed that to me long ago, which remains with me today.

    Ko taku timatatanga, whakaaro nui ana ahau ki ōku mātua, nā rātou ano i whakatō tērā kākano ki roto i ahau. I ahau e nepa ana ko ngā mahi o ōku mātua me ōku tuahine, he haere i te motu he whāngaihia i ngā mātauranga o ngā taonga puoro. Ngā taonga puoro Māori. Nā roto i ērā mahi i taea te whakawhiti atu ki tāwahi ki te whāngaihia i ēnei mātauranga o ō tātou ahurea ki iwi kē atu, ki tangata ke atu. Nā roto i ērā mahi i taea ahau me aku tuahine ki te tū pakari, ki te whakahua me te whakatinanahia i ngā mahi o te ao haka. otirā, maumahara ki te wā i te kura kaupapa Māori o te Tonga o Hokianga ahau e kuraina. Ka tū au hei kaitātaki wahine mō tērā o ngā ohu, tērā o ngā rōpū i whakataetaehia i Panguru Papata. Nō reira, mā ērā kaupapa e rua i timatahia taku ao haka.

    Firstly, I must acknowledgments my parents, for they instilled that seed within me. When I was a child, my parents and my sisters’ work was to travel the country and teach Māori musical instruments, Māori instruments. Through that work we were able to travel overseas and share that knowledge of our culture to other groupings, to other peoples. Through that work, my sisters and I were able to stand staunch, to express, and embody the teachings of te ao haka. I also remember when I attended Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o te Tonga o Hokianga. I was the female leader for that particular group which competed in Panguru Papatā. So, it was those two events that started my haka world.

    ‘E rawe! Tēnā, mai I ō w’eako, I a kōrua e ārahi ana I a Te Pū Ao, I a kōrua e manutaki ana I tērā, tēnā kōrero mai mō ngā w’eako e hāngai pū ki tēnā āhuatanga.

    Awesome, So, from your experience, when you both tutored Te Pū Ao, when you both led that, please explain your experience with that aspect. 

    He taonga te whakaiti, he taonga te noho noa, te whakarongo kau ki ngā hiahia ki ngā wawata a tō kapa. He taonga te āta whakatakoto tika i ngā kōrero. Me pēhea te neke, me pēhea te mahi i ngā mahi. He taonga te whakatauira ake i ngā mahi e hiahia nei i ngā kaiwhakaako kia whakaputa e mātou. He taonga te pupuri i tō ihi kia puta tika i te wā e whakaharatau ana mātou. He taonga te whakakaha i tō kapa kia aru nei i ō tauira. He taonga te āta poipoi i ō mema kua āhua heke ana i te ngoi. He taonga te haere te horoi i te rīhi, te whakapai i te wharetiko, te whakapai i te wharekai. 

    Humility is precious, sitting still is precious, so too is listening carefully to the needs and the desires of your group. Carefully laying out your message is precious. How to move, how to do the work. Exemplifying the work that the tutors want us to do, is precious. Withholding your thrill so that you may release it at the correct time when we are practicing, is precious. Strengthening your group to follow your example, is precious. Nurturing your members whose energy levels are depleting, is precious. Going to wash the dishes, clean the toilets and the dining room, is precious.

    He taonga te noho noa te tukuna i tō kapa kia kai tuatahi ko koe kai konga konga konga konga hinu kua mahue ki te hōpane. Tērā te tauira nui o tēnei mea te kaitātaki tāne, te manukura tāne, te manukura wahine. Ko koe te tino, ahatia kihei koe e meinga ko au te tino. Mā tō kapa tēnā e whakanuia i a koe. 

    Sitting back is precious and allowing your group to eat before you and you eat the crumbs and the leftover oil in the pan. That is the biggest example of the male leader, and the female leader. You are the focal point, though you wouldn’t call yourself the main. Let your group acknowledge you as such.

    Mā tō kapa, mā roto i ō mahi ā-ringa e kite ‘āe, he tangata ka hiahia ahau te whai atu.’ Tēnei mea te whakaiti he akoranga nui, tōna hōhonutanga, tōna whānuitanga, tōna teiteitanga, engari ko tō tauira ki tō kapa te mea nui. ‘hatia ko riro ki au tērā mana, ko taku rangatira tonu, nā, ko taku wahine. 

    Rikarika katoa āna tohutohu mai ki au engari kaua e riria, engari āta pupurihia, āta whakaarohia. He mahi tā te kaitātaki tāne, he mahi tā te kaitātaki wahine engari ko ngā mātāpono ki tō te kaitātaki mahi ko te tauira atu i te hūmarie. 

    Through your actions, your group will see ‘yes, that is a person I’d like to follow.’ Humility is a big learning, its depth, its width, its height, but being the example for your group is the main thing. Though that responsibility rests with me, my leader is still my wife.

    Her instructions are significant, but I do not get angry, instead, I hold on to them and think them through. The male leader has a role, so does the female leader, but the maxims, in the role of the leader, are to exemplify good nature.

    Ki runga i te atamira, ki muri i te atamira. I roto i te wānanga roa nei ko koe tēnā kei reira te wānanga mua noa i te tangata ko ia te mea wehe, te wehenga kē atu o te tangata. Engari ko taku mātāpono nui mō tērā o ngā hiahia ko te hūmarie, ko te whakaiti, ko te whakaiti, ko te tino whakaiti rawa atu.

    Both on the stage and off the stage. In these lengthy wānanga it is you who is out in front of the people, that is the distinguishor, that is what separates you from everyone else. But the biggest maxim there is good nature, is humility, humility, and even more humility.

    Āe. Kua kōrero mō te rahinga, mō te whānui o tērā tūranga kia tū hei kaitātaki. Ehara i te mea me pono aku kōrero, ehara i te mea he tūranga mama noa iho, he tūranga ngāwari. Kāhore. He tino uaua i ētahi wā. Engari mōku ake, ko te mea nui me tika ā muri, me tika hoki ā mua.

    Me rongo i tō tira, i tō kapa i tō ihi i ngā wā katoa. Me rongo i tō reo kia taea e rātou te hauhau mai. Me te whakakaha ake. Āe. 

    Yes. The length and breadth of that role has been discussed. And it’s not as though, I’ll be honest, it’s not as though it is an easy role or relaxed role. No. It’s very difficult at times. But for me, the main thing is that both the back and front need to be taken care of.

    Your party, your group, needs to feel your force at all times. Your voice must be heard so that they are able to heed. And go louder. Yeah.

    Nō reira, i au e tū ana hei kaitātaki mō Te Pū Ao, nōku te hōnore, te maringa nui. He maha ngā wheako i puta, mai tērā, mai aua wā i tū engari, he rerekē te tū ki te taha o tōku hoa rangatira.

    So, when I stand as leader of Te Pū Ao, I’m honoured, and so fortunate. I had lots of experiences, from those times that I stood, however, it’s another thing altogether standing with my husband.

    He rerekē tērā tū ki a koe anō hei tū takitahi nei ki te taha o tō hoa rangatira. Ka taea e māua te whakakaha i a māua anō. Otirā, ka rongo i te uaua i ētahi wā, ko māua tērā ka noho kokona, ka karakia, ka kōrerotahi. Kia puta mai ngā hoa, kia puta mai te kaha mō te kapa. Mō te kapa te take.

    That stand is different from standing alone, that stand beside your husband. We are able to strengthen one another. Certainly, it is sometimes difficult, we sit in the corner, we karakia, we talk with one another. To bring forth friendship, to bring forth strength, for the group. For the betterment of the group.

    Rirerire mai te ātaahua o ērā kōrero, tā te mea nei he pono. He pono te katoa. I runga i tērā ko ērā mātāpono, ērā uara i w’akatōngia e kui mā, e koro mā, kāore e kore e waimeha noa me pupuri tonu mō ake ake ake. 

    What stunning words those were, because they are true. They are all so true. Further to that, those maxims, those values that were laid down by the elders, will never diminish, and must be held onto forever.

    Ko tāku nei e huri nei ki ngā tikanga mō te takiwā nei. Ehara mōku te kii mō Ngāpuhi, e kāo. Ko tāku e mea nei mā kōrua e mea mai i ngā tikanga i roto i ō ake iwi, i roto i ō ake ‘apu

    mō tēnei mea te haka. Nō reira tēnā kōrero mai mō ētehi āhuatanga e kaha nei i roto i ō ake. Kāre anō ētehi rāwaho e kite. Tēnā kōrero mai mō ēraka tūāhuatanga.

    Now I’ll turn to the ways of this region. It’s not for me to say, the ways of Ngāpuhi, no. My request is for you both to discuss the ways of your respective tribes, your respective subtribes about this thing, that is haka. So please tell me about some unique aspects of your people. That isn’t done by others outside. Please tell me about those aspects.

    Ko te tū o te tāne he mea whakawā i ahau i roto i ngā whakataetae ā-rohe mō ngā kura tuarua me ngā kura tuatahi. Kua āhua kite i te ngaronga o te tū a Ngāpuhi ki runga i te whatārangi. Kua āhua tū e tū ana ngā tāne i a rātou e haka, e āhua, e tū ana tō rātou āhua tū, e tū tōtika kīhei e piko ngā pona

    The stand of the male is something I am put in as a judge for in the secondary and primary regional competitions. I have seen, to a certain degree, the loss of the style of Ngāpuhi on the stage. The men sort of just stand while they haka, they sort of, they’re standing upright, standing straight, with no bending of the knees.

    Ko tā ngā kōrero o taku whaea e meinga mai ki au “me tata o pāoro ki te papa” koirā te āhua o te tū e rite ana ki te whare. Engari te uaua mārika o tērā tū, te pupuri i tērā āhua tū nā runga i te mea kua tata koe ki te papa. Ko ō nekehanga kei runga ake i ō poho, ko te pupuri i te rangi o te haka.

    The words imparted to me by my mother were “your testicles must be near the ground” that way your stance resembles a house. But that stance is indeed difficult, maintaining that stance, because you’re so close to the ground, you’ve also got to consider your movements above your chest, and maintain the tone of the haka.

    Engari ko te mea uaua kia pakari ake ngā waewae kia whakaaro pērā, kia tata o pāoro ki te papa. Tērā te tū o Ngāpuhi mai anō. Engari rā kua kite au kua āhua Tūhoe tā mātou tū iāianei, kua āhua iwi kē atu nā runga i te māmā.

    But the real difficulty is in the strength of the legs, to think like that, to bring your testicles close to the ground. That is the stance of Ngāpuhi from long ago. However, I have noticed that we’ve now adopted a stance similar to that of the Tūhoe people, we’ve followed another tribe because it’s easier.

    Engari ki te whakatauira ake i te manukuratanga, i te hautupuatanga o Ngāpuhi, tika ana kia wāwahingia, kia whānui ake ō waewae, me te whakatata i tō tou ki te papa. Nā konā e kite i te tū o Ngāpuhi i roto i tēnei mea te haka. Hau tētahi o ēnei whakatauira ake i tērā momo. 

    But if you are to demonstrate the leadership, the fearsome style of Ngāpuhi, then the correct way is to separate, and widen your legs, bring your bottom near the ground. Through that, you will see the stance of Ngāpuhi in this thing that is called haka. I am one who personally follows that style.

    Āhua rite ki Te Tai Rāwhiti tā mātou tū o te haka engari tērā anō rā tētahi tikanga nui e pā kau ake i te haka me te oro o te haka. Tērā anō tētahi take wāku, take nui tēnei. Wētahi o tātou tamaiti e haka mehemea he ure nui tō rātou, ko taka katoa o rātou rangi

    Our haka stance is similar to that of the East Coast. However, that is one of the main customs pertaining to the haka, and the sound of the haka. That is one issue I have; this is a big issue. Some of our children perform the haka as if they have a large penis, their voice has been lowered.

    Engari e hē tērā. Ko tā tātou rangi o te haka e rite ana i a tāua e kōrero ana. Kaua heke i te rangi engari me piki ake tō rangi ki ngā rangi teitei rawa kia taea te hunga ki tua rā anō te rongo i tō reo, te rongo i ō kupu me te mita o tō haka e pāteretere mai ana.

    But that is incorrect. The pitch of the haka of our people is similar to this in which we speak. Don’t drop the key, instead, raise it high up into the sky so that your voice may be heard by those beyond, they will hear your voice and the dialect of your haka flowing forth.

    Nō reira ko te rangi me te tū o te haka kei reira rā tētahi tikanga nā Ngāpuhi ake e kaha pupuri nei. Kia tata te tou ki te papa me te hiki i tō rangi, te note o tō rangi ki tua rā anō, kaua e whakaheke i te oro o tō reo.

    So, the key and the stance of haka is where you will see the customs of Ngāpuhi being held. Lower your bottom to the ground and lift your key, the note of your key all the way beyond, don’t lower the sound of your voice.

    Āe. Mōku ake he rerekē te tū o te tāne ki te tū o te wahine. I ētahi wā ka kite i te weriweri o te wahine e āhua pērā ana ki te tāne. Engari ki ahau nei me ū ki te tū a te wahine. He ātaahua te tū a te wahine. Ahakoa ka taea e koe te whakamataku i te tangata, engari he rerekē tērā whakamataku ki te whakamataku o te tāne.

    Yes. For me, the male stance differs from that of the female. Sometimes you will see the fierceness of the females, like the males. I personally believe that you must maintain a feminine stance. The stance of a woman is beautiful. Though you’re able to scare a person, that form of scaring is different from the way a male scares.

    Kua meinga te oro o te reo. Āe, tika ana. He rerekē te oro o te tāne ki te oro o te wahine. Me kake ake te wahine, kaua e noho noa ki taua oro o te tāne engari me piki ake. Kāre e tino rongo i te rerekētanga i ēnei rā. Ētahi wā he āhua, e pērā ana. Pāpaku ana ngā reo katoa. 

    The tone of voice has been spoken about. Yes, that is correct. The tone of the male differs from the tone of the female. The women must pitch higher, don’t just stick to that same octave as the males, instead, you must go higher. You don’t really hear the difference these days. Sometimes it’s just, yeah, like that, quite low, the voices are all low.

    Engari mehemea ka taea te eke ki tērā o ngā rangi, me eke wāhine mā, me eke kōtiro mā. Me eke ki tērā taumata kia rongo i te reka o te reo. Kia rongo hoki kia taea te kite me te rongo i te rerekētanga. He rōreka te rongo i tērā note me tērā note hoki e mahi ngātahi ana. Nō reira āe, tautoko o kōrero.

    But if you’re able to get up to the higher pitch, then the women and girls alike must get up there. You must reach that level in order for the pleasantness of your voice to be heard. So that you can see and hear a clear distinction. It’s melodious to hear all the different octaves working in sync. So yes, I agree with your statement.

    Me tētahi atu tikanga ko te huringa o te waewae. Te huringa o te waewae he tikanga nō mai rānō tēnā. Te nuinga o ngā hapū i roto i au o Te Pēwhairangi he hapū e noho takutai ana. Tata atu rā ki ngā wāhi kohikohi pipi, kohikohi hūai. 

    Another custom is the turning of the feet. The turning of the feet is a custom from long ago. The majority of the subtribes within my people of Te Pēwhairangi are situated near the beach. Near the areas where you can collect pipi and hūai.

    Nō reira ko tērā tikanga nō ngā wāhine i te mea, haere te wahine ki te kohi i te wahine. Ko ngā pipi ko ngā hūai he uri katoa rātou. He tamāhine katoa rātou nā Tangaroa. Nō reira kua riro mā ngā wāhine hei kohi i ngā pipi. I a rātou e kakapa ana, e rārangi ana ka haerere me ō rātou kete kohi pipi. I a rātou e kohi ana i ngā pipi ka waiata rātou.

    So that custom belongs to the females because the females would go and collect the females. The pipi and the hūai are all descendants. They are all daughters of Tangaroa. So that task was assigned to the women to collect the pipi. While they’re lining up they would go with their kete and collect pipi. While they were collecting pipi, they would sing.

    Kia whakaharikoa, kia whakawaiwaiā[3]  i a rātou e kōrero ana, i a rātou e ngau tuarā ana, i a rātou e porosisi mō ngā take o te wā. Koirā ko ā rātou mahi. Kia nekeneke i te waewae ka pātere mai te pipi, te hūai ka kohia ka haere whakamua, ka pātere, ka puta, ka kohia ka haere whakamua.

    They would do so in order to bring joy, and beauty while they conversed, while they backstabbed, while they porosisi about current affairs. That’s what they did. When they moved their foot, the pipi would emerge, and the hūai, and they would collect it and move forward, it would emerge, they would collect it and move forward.

    Nō reira tēnā tikanga e tika ana nō ngā hapū o Ngāpuhi engari ahu mai nō ngā hapū e noho takutai ana nō ngā wāhi pāpaku e kohia ngā pipi me ngā hūai.

    So that custom, it is correct that it belongs to the tribes of Ngāpuhi but it was derived from the subtribes residing near the ocean, from the shallow areas, from where pipi and hūai are collected.

    Āe. I te wā i ako ahau i te takahi o te pipi he āhua ngāwari te nuku o te waewae, engari i ēnei rā kua tere hoki te nuku o te waewae, nō reira koirā ngā āhuatanga o ngā tau ka tīni, ka tīni, ka tīni engari mōku ake, me ū ki te tīma ki te akoranga tuatahi me ngāwari te tuku o te waewae

    Yes. When I learnt about the pipi swivel, I sort of just did it gently, but nowadays, it’s done very sharply. So that’s what happens as the years pass by, things change constantly, but for me personally, we must follow that first teaching, which is to just let your foot move gently.

    Tēnā, ka w’akaaro ake ki te wā I tū ai Te Matatini ki roto I a w’angarei I te tau 88 ki roto I a Ōkara Park. Ka tū ai tētahi tikanga nō roto hoki o Te Tai Tokerau I te wā o te pōhiri. He aha tērā?

    So, I remember the time Te Matatini stood in Whāngarei in 88 at Ōkara Park, where some tikanga, a tikanga from within Te Tai Tokerau was implemented at the time of the pōhiri. What was that?

    Te kaioma. I roto i ngā tikanga o Ngāpuhi ake, e toru ngā kaitaki ka whakataki i te manuhiri whakaeke ki runga marae, ki runga papa whutupōro, ki runga o Matatini ki Ōkara taua hui rā. Ko te kaitaki tuatahi, tōna mahi ko te haere te titiro kau ko wai ki roto i te ope whakaeke.

    The kaioma. In the true customs of Ngāpuhi, there are three kaitaki who lead the guests who are coming onto the marae, onto the football field, onto Matatini, onto Ōkara, that event. The first kaitaki, his job is to go and scope out who was in that oncoming contingent.

    Me he manukura nō iwi ke atu, me he rangatira, me he toki nō rangi, iwi kē atu, hapū kē atu. Ko tana tino mahi ko te titiro ki te hunga kore mau hū. Mēnā kite e ia tētahi tangata kore mau hū, pupuri taiaha, pupuri mere pounamu aha atu, aha atu. Ko tōna, mā muri i te whakataka i te rau, i te kōpere, i te aha raini ka hoki whakamuri.

    Whether they were leaders from other tribes, or chiefs, or stars from other tribes, other subtribes. His real job is to scope out those with no shoes on. Should he see a person with no shoes on, wielding a taiaha, wielding a mere pounamu or some similar object, then his role is that after he places down the leaf, the bow, whatever it may be, is to retreat.

    I a ia e hoki muri ana, ko te kaiwero tuarua, ko tona mahi tērā, ko te haere ki te karawhiu i te rākau. Whakaatu i tana ihi, tana wehi, tana mana, tana tapu, tana katoa. I a ia whakaatu ana tana ihi ko te kaitaki tuatahi ka kōrero anō ki ngā rangatira o te kāinga “hei he tangata ki waho, kore hū, mau taiaha, kia tūpato koe”. Nā konā ko kohia e te kaitaki tuatoru te tino hautupua o te kāinga, ka mōhio ia, ā, me tūpato au.

    When he returns, the second kaiwero, that is his job, to go out and wield the weapon. Display his force, his dread, his prestige, his sacredness, his all. While he is displaying his force, the first kaitaki will speak with the chiefs of the homelands “hey, there is a person outside, wearing no shoes, wielding a taha, be careful”. From there, the third kaitaki, the real superhero of the homelands, will collect, and he will know, okay, I must tread carefully.

    Nā, ka oti te mahi o te kaitaki tuarua ko ia ka hoki mai. Ko tona tikanga mō te kaitaki tuatoru, ehara tana mahi ko te haere ki te piupiu rakau, tona mahi oma tika atu ki mua ki te aroaro o te manuhiri e tiki ai tana rau, kia whakaritea mō te taki mō te whakataka i te kōpere, i te rau. 

    Then, once the second kaitaki has finished his part, he will return. The purpose of the third kaitaki, is not to go out and fling his weapon around. His job is to run straight out, before the guests who will collect the leaf, and prepare the taki, for the bow, the leaf.

    I te wā e tukuna e ia te rau, ko tona tikanga nei kia hoki muri. Kaua karawhiu rākau, kaua aha, kaua tākaro ki mua. He aha te take o tērā? I roto i ngā tau maha, tini, i te whakaeke a te kuini Ingārangi ki runga o Waitangi, pērā tonu tērā tikanga.

    Once he delivers the leaf, he’s supposed to go back. Don’t toss your weapon around, don’t do any of that, don’t play out the front. What is the purpose of doing so? That’s been the custom over many, many years, including when the Queen of England came onto Waitangi.

    Koia ka watea ia te manuhiri te mau i a ia, mēnā ka mau te manuhiri i te kaitaki, e hoa patua te kaitaki kia mate, whangaingia ki te poaka. Tērā te āhuatanga ina kua mau koe, koe e tō manuhiri, he momo whakaiti e takahi ki runga i tō iwi.

    Thus, the guests are free to capture him, and if the guest manages to seize the kaitaki, mate, kill him, feed him to the pigs. That is what happens if you get caught, caught by your guest, that is considered a trampling on your people.

    Te mea kua kite nei e tāua ki runga Ōkara he mea whakarangatira i te iwi. Ko roto ngā kōrero kua tāpiringia ki tērā ataata, o he whakaiti, no kīhei e taua korokē e whakaitiiti, he whakarangatira e ia e te iwi. He mahi nui tēnā mā mātou. Me whakanui mā roto i te hopu, mā roto i te aru e te kaitaki tuatoru.

    The thing that we saw happen on Ōkara, that was an ennoblement of the tribe. The comments on that video say “oh that is demeaning”. No, that bloke did not demean. He ennobled his tribe. That is important to us. We acknowledge by capturing and by the pursuit of the third kaitaki.

    Nō reira he wero, e kōrero tēnei ki ngā iwi o runga, haere mai, whaia mātou kaitaki tuatoru i te mea ko ia te kaipīkau i te ihi, te wehi me te mana o te kāinga. Tēnei mea te meke i a ia, ka tika me meke, ka tika kia patu e ia kia mate nā runga i te aroha kīhei taua korokē e patu kia mate.

    So, this is a challenge to the tribes above, come to me, follow us, pursue our third kaitaki for he is the bearer of the force, of the dread and the prestige of the homelands. Striking him is only right, yes, strike him, and the taking of his life, however, in sympathy, his life was spared.

    Nō reira tēnā tikanga o te kaioma he mea pērā i te pipi takahi, pērā i te tū o te tāne, he tikanga kua āhua mimiti nā runga anō i te mea kua ngāwari haere wā tātou whakaaro engari wētahi wā tātou ka pupuri tonu ki tērā o ngā ao Māori e noho tikanga ana i tēnei wā engari ko tāku, kia whakawhenua ki roto i tō tātou ao katoa, kia pakari te tū, kia Māori te tū engari kia ora tonu tērā āhua o tātou mātua o tātou tupuna. He mea whakanui i te mutunga o te rā. 

    So that custom of the kaioma is similar to that of the pipi swivel, like the stance of the males, it is a custom that has diminished due to our thinking becoming more relaxed. However, some of us maintain those Māori world customs, personally, it must be embedded into our entire lives. Stand strong, stand Māori, let that aspect of our ancestors remain. For it is an acknowledgement at the end of the day.

    Āe. Nō reira, I a koe, kōrua e w’akarite ana mō Te Matatini, ka aha?

    So, when you, both of you are preparing for Te Matatini, what do you do?

    Ka tika me whakarite i a koe anō. Kua roa mātou e noho, e whakatā ana, mō ngā mahi whakataetae me kii engari kāore e kore ka kite i te hiahia o te tangata me te hiahia mō tērā pakanga nui kei runga i te whatārangi. 

    You must properly prepare yourself. We’ve long been stagnant, relaxing and sleeping in regard to the competition and so you will see everyone’s enthusiasm and eagerness for that big battle that happens on the stage.

    Nō reira mōku ake, me hoki atu ki ō marae kia rongo i te mauri o tō kāinga. Mā roto tērā ka taea ō kaumātua, ka taea ō tangata o te kāinga te whakakaha ake i a koe kia tika tō tū, kia tika tō tohaina i tō reo, i tō wairua ki tō kapa. Kia ako hoki i ētahi āhuatanga o te kāinga nei. He mea nui te noho ki ngā rekereke o ō kaumātua, he akoranga nui kei roto i tēnā mahi. Ko māua tērā pō, ao.

    For me, I’d say return to your marae so that you may feel the force of your home. Through that, your elders, your people back home will be able to strengthen you so that you stand correctly, so that you project your voice correctly, and your spirit to your group. So that you may also learn some aspects of this home. It is integral that you sit at the feet of your elders, there is lots of learning that happens there. That is us both, night and day.

    E noho ana ki ngā rekereke o mātou kaumātua. Ko rātou tērā e whakatinana ana i a māua anō. Mei kore ko rātou, mei kore mātou e tū hei tangata ki te ao.

    We sit at the feet of our elders. They make us who we are. If it weren’t for them, we would not be here.

    Mahara ana au ngā kōrero a Pī a Pā, e rua ō kanohi, e rua ō taringa, kotahi te waha, kopia. He taonga te titiro, he taonga te whakarongo. Ina hiahia te kōrero, tatari, he wā anō wāu, he wā anō wā koutou engari i a koe haere ki te kapa e hiahia nei te whakaatu i tō rātou tuakiritanga, haere koe i runga i te mōhio he pononga koe ki a rātou, kaua haere me ō whakaaro

    I recall the words of Pi and Pā you have two eyes, two ears, one mouth, shut it.   Looking is precious, listening is precious. If you wish to speak, wait, your time will come, all of you, your time will come. But when you join a group who are showcasing their identity, go with the knowledge that you are a servant of theirs, don’t go with your own ideas

    Me manawanui ki te kaupapa

    You must be dedicated to the cause

    Me manawanui ki tō kapa. Kua kitekite māua i tērā āhuatanga. I mua i tā māua tū ki runga ki tētahi kapa, ko māua tērā e pononga nui nei ki tō mātou hapū, ki tō mātou whānau. Ko te hari o tēnā, i te wā ka tū mātou ki runga i te whatārangi a tāne kei konā katoa taku iwi, kei konā katoa taku hapū.

    You must be dedicated to your group. We’ve seen that before. Before we stood with a group, we were servants to our subtribes, to our families. The joy from that is that when we stand on the stage, my tribe is there, my subtribe, they’re all there.

    Nā konā, heke katoa ngā roimata, me whai tautoko i te mea ēnei wānanga tekau, mai te wānanga tuatahi ki te mea mutunga he uaua. Kei reira a hari, kei reira a koa engari kei reira anō a pukuriri, kei reira anō tērā kuia e taniwha nei i a koutou, e kai nei i a koutou.

    From there, the tears fall. You must find a support network because these 10 wānanga, from the first one to the last, are hard. There are happy and joyful times, but there are also times of anger, there is that menace that eats away at you.

    Nō reira mutu kau i tō wānanga me hoki ki tō matua. Me te rerekētanga o te haka iāianei. Kaua tae ngoikore, kaua tae māngere atu ki ngā kapa me haere koe ki te oma, haere koe te whakapakari i a koe anō. Kaua ā-tinana anahenahe, engari ā- hinengaro, ā-wairua.

    So once the wānanga finishes, return to your parents. And also, the difference of haka nowadays. Don’t show up weak, don’t show up slothful to the group. You must go for a run, go and strengthen yourself. Not only physically, but mentally and spiritually.

    Kei reira te whare tapatoru o te ao Māori e nōhia ki te hiranga o te whakaaro. Engari he tahi kōrero ka patere mai i au. Ehara i pato ki tō tātou kōrero mō tō tātou tikanga. E kore e tika kia whakaingoatia te whatārangi he atamira

    There is the triangle of the Māori world that sits at the forefront of my thoughts. But one thing that springs up for me me, I’m not trying to trample on our customs. It’s not correct to refer to the stage as an ‘atamira’

    Tēnā, karawhiua mai

    Please, spill

    Ko te atamira te wāhi i takotohia te mate. Engari oh te atamira, haere mai te atamira. You know, rikarika, riri au, makariri taku tinana te rongo o tērā. Te kōrero o Te Rārawa kaiwhare, i ahu katoa mai i tērā aituā e takato ki runga i te atamira tahi anō kua tahunangia,

    The ‘atamira’ is the place where the deceased is layed. But “Oh the atamira, come to the atamira.” You know, it makes me livid, angry, I get the chills when I hear that. According to Te Rārawa Kaiwhare, that refers to the place upon which the deceased had layed just before they were cremated.

    Nā runga i tā rātou matekai, kīhei rātou i whakaaro ka kaingia e te tangata. Koia i tapaina ko Te Rārawa kaiwhare engari i a te mate takoto tūpāpaku ana, ko ia e takoto i runga i te atamira. Nō reira ko tēnā kupu te atamira, ko te atamira, ko te mate nahe. Hau koe ki roto i tō whare, te wāhi e takoto ai te tūpāpaku, wharo te mate, ko te atamira o te mate.

    And because of their desire, they did not think they would be desecrated. Hence the name Te Rārawa Kaiwhare. But the deceased were laid upon the atamira. So that word, atamira, is strictly for the dead. Enter your house, the place where the tūpāpaku lays, stretched out, that is the stage of the dead.

    He kupu hei whakamāmā ake, ko te whatārangi,

    A lighter word to use is whatārangi.

    Ko te papa hakahaka

    Or papa hakahaka

    Ko te papa hakahaka. Engari he tapu te kupu. Hei āwhina tonu i tō tātou tangata e hiahia kia uru atu ki tō kapa me mātau ki tō tātou reo. Me mātau ki te mita o tō whānau, o tō hapū ake. Nā tō mōhio ki tō tuakiritanga ka mātau koe me pēhea koe te tuku āwhina ki tō kapa, ki tō iwi nā roto i tēnā tuku ka ora tonu te ao haka ki roto te kainga o Te Tai Tokerau

    Papa hakahaka. But words are sacred. In order to help the people wanting to join your group, you must be well equipped with the language. You must know the dialect of your family, of your subtribe. Through your knowledge of your identity, you will know how you can help your group, your tribe and through that, te ao haka lives on within the home of the North.

    Āe. Ehara i te mea me tukuna mā te whatārangi koe e tū Māori ai. Engari me hoki atu ki ō marae kia tū Māori ai koe ki aua wāhi e rua. 

    Yes. And don’t restrict it to only the stage where you can stand as Māori. But return to your marae so you can stand as Māori in both spaces.

    He mea nui tērā ki ahau, ki te tū hei kanohi kitea mō te Māori, te tū hei kanohi kitea mō tō iwi, me noho ngātahi tērā. Me whai wā ki te mahi i ngā mahi e rua.Kia tino kitea i ngā hua o te Māori me te rerekētanga o ērā mahi.

    That’s a big thing for me, having a physical presence for Māori, and having a physical presence for your tribe, those two things must go hand in hand. You must make time to do both. In order to reap the benefits of being Māori and the differences between those things.

    Nō reira, ‘e a’a ngā pūkenga, ngā taonga o te ao ‘aka e taea nei kōrua te kawe I roto I ō mahi?

    So, what are the skills and gifts of Te Ao Haka that you both utilize in your work?

    Rata au ki tēnei kōrero. I a mātou e hakahaka ana, e papaki ana i te uma, e pūkana ana, e waiata, e mōteatea ana i te wīkene he kaihaka anahe mātou, engari, mōhio ana mātou i te Mane ka hoki mātou katoa ki ō mātou tūranga mahi.

    I like this topic. When we’re doing haka, we’re slapping the chest, we’re doing pūkana, we’re singing, we’re chanting on the weekends, we’re just performers. But we’re aware that on Monday we return to our jobs.

    Ko te painga o te ao haka ka taea e koe te piri atu ki tangata kē atu, Nō tūranga mahi kē atu, nō te motu kē atu. Nā konā ko whātoro ake o totoronga mēnā kei te mahi kāinga tāku e mahi nei ka ringi atu au ki taku whaea a Annette Wehi ko ia te māngai mō ngā kāinga ki roto Te Tai Rāwhiti nā reira ka taea te mahitahi nā runga i te hononga ā-haka nei.

    The good thing about haka is that you get to spend time with others, in other roles, from other places. From there, you’ve got more networks, say if you’re working in housing, like I am, I am able to ring my Aunty Annette Wehi who is the representative for the housing in the East Coast, so I am able to work with her because of our haka connection.

    Tērā momo ka taea te tāpiri ki roto i ōku ao. Iāianei he rangatira mō te rūnanga iwi o Ngāpuhi. Nā runga i konā, nā te ao haka kua piri atu au ki e hea kē o ngā kaihaka nō iwi kē, nō motu kē, nō hapū kē. 

    That sort of thing adds value to my life. Now I am a leader for Te Rūnanga Iwi o Ngāpuhi. So, from that, from te ao haka, I’ve met an innumerable number of performers from other tribes, from other islands, from other sub-tribes.

    Nā konā, he hononga tā māua, nā runga i tērā hononga a haka nei, ka taea te kōrero mō ngā pakihi, ka taea te kōrero mō ngā wawata, ngā moemoeā me ngā whakawhanaketanga kei te whanga mai. Nō reira tēnei mea te ao haka e haka whakapakari, ka whai mahi, ka whai mahi koe.

    Because of that, we have a connection, and because of that haka connection, we’re able to talk business, we’re able to talk about the aspirations, the visions and the developments that are in the works. So this thing, te ao haka, strengthens, you get opportunities out of it.

    Ko tōku mātāpono anake ko te reo. Ko ahau tērā he kaiako e whāngaihia i te reo Māori ki a mātou tamariki, mokopuna. 

    My only principle is the language. I am a teacher who feeds te reo Māori into our children and grandchildren.

    Kia rongo i te mauri o te tuakiri Māori. Ahakoa, mehemea e matatau ana koe ki te reo, kaua mutu te ako. Ko ahau tērā e whakawhanake tonu ana i tōku reo, me pērā ka tika. 

    So that the force of the Māori identity is heard. Even though you're proficient in the language, don’t ever stop learning. I’m still developing my reo, it’s essential.

    Nō reira koirā tāku mō taku tūranga mahi he whāngahia i te reo, kia mārama. Kia mārama ki ngā titonga, kia mārama ki te tuhi i te reo Māori, kia mārama ki te kōrero i te reo Māori me te whakarongo anō hoki. Nō reira, ko te reo te mea matua

    So that’s me about my job, I feed the language to others so that it may be understood. So that compositions may be understood, to understand how to write in te reo Māori, to understand how to speak te reo Māori and listen too. So that’s the main thing.

    Ka tika. Ka tika i runga i tērā, kāore e kore ka mātaki mai ēte’i ākonga i ēnei kapong’anga i tautoko ake i ō rātou ma’i i roto i te ao haka oti noa i ō rātou oranga. Nō reira, ko te pātai e w’ai ake nei e hāngai pū ana ki a rātou e kiia nei

    I roto i ngā w’akamatautau o te ao haka e kōrero ake ana mō ēnei mea e kiia nei, 

    Indeed. That’s right, so on that, there’s no doubt that some students will watch these snippets in support of their work for te ao haka and also for their lives. So, the following question pertains to them, as follows

    In the te ao haka examinations there is talk about these things called

    Ngā āhuatanga matua, ngā āhuatanga he a’a eta’I ā’uatanga motu’ake e kore rawa e mōhiotia e ngā tamariki nō Taranaki e pā ana ki ngā mahi I kōnei I Te Tai Tokerau, aua momo tangongitanga ā-iwi.

    Key elements, features. What are some of the distinct features that tamariki from Taranaki are not going to have any idea about that goes on up here in Te Tai Tokerau, those specific Iwi variations.

    Hei tauira, ki a mātou o Taranaki, kāre anō te waewae e hiki, e w’akawawahia ake ai i te papa. Te tikanga I te mea i te wā i hiki ai te waewae i ngaro mātou i te w’enua, i w’akangaro atu ki te Pākehā, nō reira koirā te tikanga kia mau ai te waewae ki te papa engari whakamārama atu ki a rātou iwi variations, he aha ngā rerekētanga o ngā mahi o Te Tai Rāwhiti ki Te Tai Tokerau, o Te Waipounamu ki Te Tai Tokerau aha atu rānei.

    For example, in Taranaki, we don’t lift the foot, we don’t break the floor. The reason for that is because when we lifted our feet, the land was lost, taken by the Pākehā, so that is the reason we keep our feet planted on the ground. But explain to them, tribal variations, what are the differences of the East Coast to the North, of the South to the North, so on and so forth.

    Āe, well kua kōrero kē mō te pipi, takahi o te pipi. Te tū a te tāne, te rerekētanga o te tū a te tāne me te tū a te wahine

    Yes, well I’ve already spoken about the pipi, the pipi swivel. The stand of the male, the differences between the stand of the male from that of the female

    Pēhea tēnei mea te wiri? 

     

    Te wiri. Nō reira, ki a mātou nei ko te kapu, he āhua, me piri ngā matimati, me piri ngā matimati me kapu hoki, koirā ko te wiri o te wahine.

    What about the wiri? 

     

    The wiri. So, for us, it’s cupped hands, it’s sort of, the fingers must stick together, the fingers must stick together and be cupped also, that is the womens’ wiri.

    Ko te tāne he āhua tūwhera ana ngā matimati, āhua nei, tūwhera ana ngā matimati, engari he mea nui te wiri kia rongo i te mauri o ngā mahi me ora tātou ki roto i ēnei mahi. Ko au tērā e whāngaihia i ēnei kōrero ki aku tamariki kia rongo rātou ehara i te mea he mahi noa tēnei te wiri, engari he kaupapa nui kei muri i ngā mahi katoa kei roto i te ao haka.

    The males have sort of open fingers, sort of, open fingers, however, the wiri is important so that we feel the force of what we’re doing, we’re alive in what we’re doing. I feed these discussions to my children so that they can feel it, that this isn’t just some random thing, the wiri. But there’s a bigger story behind everything we do in te ao haka.

    E whakaae ana ahau, e tautoko ana hoki nā te mea ko te wiri tētahi o aua āhuatanga e taea ana te whakawhiti, ka kitea rā i ngā āhuatanga katoa o ngā tikanga Māori me ngā kōrero tuku iho.

    I condone that, I support that as well because the wiri is one of those transferable features that’s featured in all elements of Māori customs and tradition.

    Nā reira ko te wiri te tohu ki te kaimātakitaki kua hono koe ki ngā rangi 12 e tō mai ai koe i tō māramatanga. I runga i te whatārangi, kia whakangungua e koe, ka whakanui hoki i tō tū ki te whatārangi, te whaikōrero, te karanga, te kauhau

    As such the wiri is the indicator to the observer that you’re in tune with the 12 celestial realms that you draw your insightfulness from. On the stage once you’ve trained it, and it also magnifies your performance on the stage, whaikōrero, karanga, speeches

    He tohu hoki o tō hononga ki te whenua me te rangi. Nā reira, ko tētahi āhuatanga o te wiri ko te tōrire o te mahi mai, koirā i kore ai e tino kukua ngā ringaringa o te tāne, engari he torohanga o te tinana. He āhuatanga matua tērā i roto o Te Tai Tokerau. Ko te whakamahinga o te tinana, ko te neke i te tinana, ko te kawe i te tinana ki tua o ngā roherohenga māori e ninipa ai koe nā te mea he āhuatanga hou tēnei ki a koe.

    And it’s an indication of your connectedness to the whenua and to the sky. So, the feature of the wiri is one that you do it in such an elegant way, hence the hands of the male are not as clenched as much of that of a female, but it’s there as an added extension to the body. Which is a fundamental feature within Te Tai Tokerau.

    The utilising of the body, the moving of the body, the pushing beyond the natural boundaries to where you feel awkward because it feels unnatural.

    Engari mā te whakamāori i ēnei ninipatanga e āta whai wheako ai koe, arā, ko te kite atu i ngā ataata, i ngā mauhanga o te onamata. Engari nōu ka titiro ki tā ō kaumātua i mahi ai me te whakahāngai mai ki ēnei rā, kua whakatōkia tērā ki roto o Ngāpuhi nō mai anō, ā, ko te wiri tētahi o aua āhuatanga whakakotahi e tūhono ana i a tātou. Kaua noa iho ki te Ngāpuhitanga engari ki tua o te awe māpara, te hunga i mua noa atu i a tātou.

    But, to naturalify these awkwardness is to live the experience, is to observe through video, through historical accounts, but when you look at what your kaumātua do and how can we apply that to now, it’s been entrenched with us within Ngāpuhi for a long time and the wiri is one of those unified features that connect us not with just what makes us Ngāpuhi but with those beyond the veil that traverse this path, pre us.

    He iwi hakahaka mātou. Kāre e kore i puta mai i ērā āhuatanga i roto i ngā pūtake o te riri i tū ki tēnei rohe me kii. He iwi karaitiana hoki, nō reira kāre e kore ka kite i tērā momo roto i a mātou kapa, engari a mātou konei pai mārika ki te haka. Haka ao pō.

    We’re a tribe that commonly performs haka. There’s no doubt it came from those circumstances, from warfare in this region. We’re also a tribe influenced by Christianity, so there’s no doubt you’ll see that in our teams. But we love haka in this region. Haka, day and night.

    He rawe tērā, kāre he take kia haka ai i te ao i te pō. He taonga tuku iho ka tika me pupuri. Nō reira, kia noho tonu ahau ki ngā āhuatanga.

    That’s awesome, there’s no reason to be doing haka day and night. It’s a treasure that’s been handed down so it’s only right that we hold onto it. So, and I want to also stay with the features.

    Mama noa iho mō mātou e kōrero ake mō te wiri engari, i rawe ō tauira mō te rerekētanga me ngā tangongitanga o te wiri

    It’s really easy for us to talk about the wiri but, actually you gave great examples of the differences and the variations of wiri

    Ko te pūkana hoki tērā. Ko te pūkana, e ai ki ōku kaumātua, e kore pea e ōrite ki te pūkana e ai ki Te Tai Rāwhiti, arā, me te tauaro hoki. Nā reira he aha ngā āhuatanga rerekē o, ka kīia rānei he pūkana i konei, i Ngāpuhi? Arā,ko tēnei te mahi tika ko te putē, ko te w’akana aha atu, aha rānei

     

    Pūkana me te whētero

    Same again goes with pūkana. A pūkana to my kaumātua may not necessarily be a pūkana that’s applicable to those in Te Tai Rāwhiti and likewise, vice versa. So, what are the different elements and features of a, is it even called a pūkana up here in Ngāpu’i? Whereby actually it is a putē, or whākana, etc.

     

    Pūkana and whētero

    Ko te pūkana. Ko a mātou whakaakoranga, titiro ki ngā pou o tō whare. Kei reira te whakaaturanga tika māu, kei konā ko ngā kōrero. I nōhia ko te tauira o te pūkana ki konei i te mea ko ngā kaiwhakairo ko ngā ringa tapu, nā rātou te kaipupuri i te iho, i te rētanga o te mātauranga o Ngāpuhi.

    Pūkana. Our teachings are to look at the pillars of your house. There you will find the right expressions for you, and the stories reside there. It is called a pūkana in this area because the carvers are the sacred hands, they are the holders of the essence, of the depth of the knowledge of Ngāpuhi.

    Nō reira koinā wā mātou haerere ki roto ki taku whare kaumātua ki te pou tuarongo o tō mātou whare ko Rāhiri. Āna kanohi, whero nei, tana arero e pūkanakana ki te taha rewhe o tana mata. Ko tērā, ko tā te kōrero o tō mātou kaiwhakairo e tohu ana ki te iwi, kaua e haere mai ki konei ki te makarauna, kaua haere mai koe ki konei ki te tākaro ki te purei māpere, ki te purei huripapa, konei he take tā mātou.

    So that’s us. Enter my elderly house, at the back wall of our house is Rāhiri. His eyes are red, his tongue is out in a pūkana on the left side of his face. That, according to our carver, shows the tribe not to come here to muck around, don’t come here to play marbles, to play knucklebones, no, there’s a significant matter at hand here.

    Nō reira, koirā te whakaatu o te pūkana. Ko te pukoko[4]  te whakataha ki te arero ki te taha mauī. Ko Tū ki te taha mauī, ko Rongo ki te taha whakatau. Koia anō i meinga atu “ki konei au mō te whawhai”. 

    So, that is the display of pūkana. The reason for the tongue going to the left is because Tū is on the left and Rongo is on the right. So again, that is saying “I’m here to fight”.

    Mēnā ka whakataka tika i te arero he pūkare ki raro, tōtika i te kauae he tōna tikanga he whakaatu atu ki taku whakanui i a koe, ki taku whakanui i te kaupapa, ki taku whakanui ki te manuhiri me te take kei runga i wāku pokowhiwhi. Ka whakataka ki te taha mauī, nā, he kōrero anō tēnā.

    If the tongue comes straight down, straight down the chin, that is supposed to show my acknowledgement of you, my acknowledgement of the event, my acknowledgement of the guests and the matters which rest upon my shoulders. If it extends to the left, well, that’s another thing entirely.

    Āe mō te pūkana o te wahine, mōku ake ko te pūkana, ko te tūwhera mai o ngā kamo, a ngā kanohi engari i ētahi wā ka kite i te kauae e pēnei ana, engari ko te pūkana ko ngā kanohi. Ko tāku noa he kaua e tukuna hei kemokemo engari tūwhera mai kātahi ka puritia. Puritia mō ake tonu atu mēnā ka taea.

    Yes, in terms of the womens’ pūkana, for me personally, the pūkana is the wide opening of the eyes. But sometimes you’ll see the chin doing this. But the pūkana is the eyes. I just say don’t blink when you do it, instead, leave them open and hold it. Hold it forever if you can.

    Engari kia tika hoki te pūkana, kei reira ko ngā rerekētanga o te pūkana, he mea whakamataku, he mea hoki hei whakatenatena, hei whakatoi i te tangata. Nō reira he rerekētanga, koirā ngā rerekētanga o te pūkana

    But you must pūkana correctly. There are differences in pūkana, some to scare, some to encourage, some to tease a person. So there are differences, those are the differences of pūkana.

    Engari te wāhanga ki te pūkana me āta tūpato me pēhea te whakamahi. Waiho rā mā te wairua o tō waiata, o tō haka, o tō mōteatea tō pūkana e puta mai. E kore e tika e whātero ai te arero i roto i ngā mōteatea, i ngā oriori, i ngā pao, i ngā pātere, pea te kaioraora, engari kaua ki roto i ngā oriori.

    However, the part of pūkana that we must be careful with is how to use it. Let the essence of your song, of your haka, of your mōteatea determine your pūkana. It’s not correct to protrude your tongue during mōteatea, or oriori, or pao, or chants, maybe in kaioraora, but not in oriori.

    Ko tā tō pūkana ki roto i te oriori ko te whakaputē i tō karu, kia roa te pupuri, nā te kupu ka mātau koe me pēwhea koe te āhua tuku i te āhuaranga o te kanohi, hei tautoko i tō mahi. Ētahi tangata e pūkana mō te take mō te pūkana anahe. Engari kīhei whai tautoko, kīhei whai taunaki ki roto i te kupu ki roto i te wairua o te waiata.

    Your pūkana in an oriori would be restricted to enlarging your eyes, and hold it for a time, through the words you will know when to release the features of the face to support what you’re doing. Some people do pūkana just for pūkana sake. But there is no support from the words or the nature of the song.

    Kīhei a Ngāpuhi pūkana ki roto i ngā mōteatea, ki ngā oriori. Ko tā te āhua o te oriori ko te noho whakaiti, ko te piko o te māhunga, ko te piko o te tuarā, kia tata atu koe ki te papa hei tukutuku i te roimata engari waiho

    Ngāpuhi doesn’t pūkana in mōteatea or in oriori. The nature of oriori is to remain humble, to bow the head, to hunch the back, so that you may be near the ground in order to release your tears but leave it 

    Mā ngā ringa e whakaatu i tō māramatanga

     

    Your hands will express your understanding. 

    He rawe. Nō reira ko ērāka tūā’uatanga o te ao haka e hāngai ana ki ngā w’akamātautau o ngā ākonga. Ko ētahi atu kōrero e kaurukutia ana e ngā ākonga, anā, ko te pātai e whai ake nei e tautoko ake i tērā.

    Marvellous. So those are the features of te ao haka that are relevant to the students’ examinations. Some other topics that the students will delve into are the following questions.

    I tū ai kōrua ki rōpū kē. Me pēhea te w’akahaere ai tētahi w’anau, me pe’ea ai te w’aka’aratau i roto i te kāinga me ērā[5]  ka tū a’uatanga i runga i te mea nei ko te tuata’itanga tēnei ma’i ki ete’i o ngā ākonga.

    You both stood in a different team. How do you manage a family, how do you practice in the home and those sorts of things because this is a first for some of the students.

    Heoi anō rā, ko ete’i anō rā waia rawa atu i roto i te ao haka engari kāre anō ete’i e kaurukutia i roto i tērā wheako kia tū ki rōpū kē. Nō reira ehara te pātai nei, he aha ai, ko tāku me pēhea te whakahaere ake i tērā me tō kōrua whānau.

    However, some others are fully accustomed to te ao haka, but there’s that few who have not yet delved into that experience of standing in another group. So, this question is not about why, but it’s about how you manage that with your family.

    Tō mātou waimarie, i te wā i whakaae māua kia hūnuku ki rōpū kē atu, ki kapa kē atu. I noho mātou kei raro i te maru o Te Waka Huia, nō reira, ahakoa Manu Huia mai, Waka Huia mai i wānanga tahi mātou i te wā kotahi. 

    We’re very lucky, when we agreed to move to another team, we were under the shelter of Te Waka Huia, so whether we were Manu Huia or Waka Huia, we all had wānanga together.

    Nō reira, kāre e tino uaua engari ko te mea uaua he mahue i ngā tamariki ki te kāinga,me te taraiwa tawhiti ki Tāmaki. Kia tutuki i tērā o ngā hiahia, nō reira āe, kei reira ko ngā pōrarurarutanga ētahi uauatanga ētahi wā, ka āhua tukituki māua ki a māua anō. 

    So, it wasn’t very difficult, but the hard thing was leaving the kids behind at home and driving a long distance to Auckland, in order to fulfill that desire, so yes, there are some dynamics, some difficulties sometimes, we kind of clash with each other.

    He rerekē hoki te rongo i tērā mea kei konei koe, kei konei ahau. He rerekē. Kāore tino rongo i te hononga kei waenganui i a māua tahi.

    It’s different too to feel that you’re here and I’m here. They’re different. You don’t really feel the connection between us.

    He taonga te whakarongo, he taonga te titiro, he taonga te kōrero. Ko te mātāpono matua e pā ana ki tērā takahanga a māua ko te kōrero. Nā roto i te kōrero ka hua mai ko ngā raruraru, ko ngā painga, ko ngā whakaritenga, ko ngā whakawākanga, ko ngā whakataunga i tau ai ki a māua ngākau.

    Listening is precious, observing is precious, communication is precious. The main principle in that journey of ours was communication. Through communication, the problems were raised, the good things, the arrangements, the decisions, the settlements that our hearts felt.

    Nā konā au i meinga atu, he taonga te aroha ki ō whānau nā runga i te mea ko rātou ngā kaipoipoi, kaitiaki o tamariki. Me tiaki te wā, me tiaki te wā i te mea i a koe taraiwa ana ki hea raini mō te whakaharatau i te haka ko ō pihi whānau ko mahue ki muri kīhei i kite.

    So that is why I said, it is precious to love your family because they are the ones who cherish and look after your children. You must cherish the time, be appreciative because when you’re driving to wherever for haka practice, it is your family who is left behind and you don’t see them.

    Nō reira mēnā kei roto a māua i te wā o te whānau, ko te wā o te whānau anahe tērā. Ko te wā i nōhia māua ko māua anahe, nā māua tērā wā. Engari he uauatanga nā runga anō i te kore kōrero. Nā konā hau hoki atu ki te mātāpono tuatahi, me kōrero.

    So if we’re in family time, that is strictly family time. If we are sitting alone, just the pair of us, that is strictly our time. But it becomes difficult if you do not communicate. Hence, I return to my first principle, communication.

    Hoi tata mai ki ēnei wā ka kite te whakawhanake i te tama ngā tamariki ka wā ka kōrero āno māua koi whakaae koe haere māku ngā tamariki e tiaki nā te mea kua kaumātua haere ināianei. Engari ko tāku, ka taea, ka taea. Kei reira tonu ko ngā wheako, kei reira tonu ko ngā wero. Hatia ngā piki, hatia ngā heke.

    But recently, as the children develop, we will talk between us, “you go, I’ll look after the kids” because they’re getting older. But I say, it is possible, it’s possible. There is still that experience, there is still challenges. Go through the ups and the downs.

    E tekau mā toru tau māua noho mārena ana, e hoa ka papaki katoa ngā hau o Tāwhiri. I runga i wēna papakinga ko tūtahanga tonu, ka kōkiri whakamua tonu. Ka pīkau i ngā mātāpono me ngā uara o tēnei mea te ao haka. Kua whanake o mātou ake. Nō reira he mea nui te kōrero.

    We’ve been married for thirteen years, mate, all the winds of Tāwhiri have blown. Despite that, we still stand strong, and we still move forward. We carry the principles and the values of te ao haka. We have developed ourselves. So, communication is a big thing.

    And ehara i te mea e pērā te hiahia kia haere mō māua anake, mō mōku ake, engari i pērā ana te mea ko te hiahia, ko te aronga nui kia hoki mai ki te kāinga me te whāngaihia i ērā wheako ki ā mātou uri o konei, o Ngāpuhi-nui-tonu.

    And it’s not as though we wanted to go just for our own sake, for me it was about the desire and the focus to return home and feed those experiences to our descendants here, of Ngāpuhi-nui-tonu.

    Kia whakakīngia i taua kete mātauranga otirā ā tōna wā ka hoki mai ki te kāinga me te whāngaihia i ēnei hua ki a mātou tangata o konei. Engari whakaaro ana au ki taua whakataukī “ki te wātea te hinengaro me te kaha rere o te wairua ka taea 

    To fill that knowledge basket and eventually come back home and feed our people with the benefits we have reaped. But I’m thinking of that proverb, “When the mind is free and the spirit is willing, anything.

    Ngā mea katoa.

    .. is possible.”

    Ka tika. Tāku e ‘ia’ia nei kia ū tonu ki tērā w’akautu e hora nei e kōrua me ō kōrua tamariki. ‘E a’a ō kōrua moemoeā mō ō kōrua tamariki i roto ngā uaranga o tātou te Māori?

    Precisely. My hope is that that proverb remains with you both and your children. What are your dreams for your children in terms of the values of Māori people?

    He pātai mīriona tāra tērā. Ā-mātua nei, mōhio ana au he aha kē ngā mahi o taku tamaiti. Taku kōtiro ko ia taku rangatira so pēhea au. Ko tāku ki ōku ake, kia kaha ki te kōrero ki te tiaki i tō tātou reo. Koirā te ariki mō ngā āhuatanga Māori katoa. Ki te kore te reo ka kore te ao haka.

    That is the million-dollar question. As parents, I already know what my children are doing. My daughter is my boss so how can I. What I impart onto mine is to protect our language. That is the superior of all things Māori. If there is no reo then there is no ao haka.

    Ki te kore te ao haka kua mahue te taha whakaari, te whare makatea o te ao te arohanui tonu. Nō reira kia kaha tātou ki te kōrero i tō tātou reo, tiaki tō tātou reo. Kaua reo ā-Aotearoa nei engari te reo o tō kāinga ake. Te mita o tō whānau, te mita o tō hapū kei reira rā taku ngākau e noho kōhatu ana i tēnei wā ka tahi.

    Without te ao haka, there is no theatre, the house of tohunga, of love. So let us ensure we speak our language, protect our language. Not our standardised language but the unique language of your home. The dialect of your family, the dialect of your sub-tribe, that’s where my heart is set in stone at this time, first and foremost.

    Ka rua, kia te tū rangatira rāua hei kanohi kitea, he mata kitea, he mata tini mō te ao Māori i roto i tō rātou ake ao. Nōku tēnei wā, nōku tēnei wā. Engari nōu te āpōpō.

    Secondly, a chief is someone with a physical presence, a commonly seen face, a complex face for te ao Māori in their own world. It is mine for now, this time is mine at the moment. But it will be yours tomorrow.

    Āe. Kaua i te reo Māori anake engari ko te reo Pākehā hoki. Me noho ngātahi. E pērā ana tō tātou ao, nō reira, me pakari ki roto i ngā taha e rua.

    Yes. Not only the Māori language but the English language too. They must go hand in hand. That is how our world works, so you must be ambidextrous.

    Ehara i te mea me whaiwhai haere i a māmā me pāpā engari, kei te kite rātou i ngā painga o ngā mahi kei te para i a māua. Nō reira, me pakari ki te reo. And ko mātou tērā e kōrero Māori ana i te kāinga. Reo Māori anake. Me pakari hoki ki te ao o te haka.

    It’s not that they must follow mum and dad around but they’re seeing the benefits of the path that we’re clearing for them. So, their language must be strong. And we speak Māori in the home. Only the Māori language. They must also be strong in te ao o te haka.

    Ko taku tamaiti tēnei tau ko tōna tau tuatahi ki te kura tuarua. Kua hono ia ki te rōpū kapa haka o Pēwhairangi. Me taku tino noho hūmārie. Nānā kē ērā whakaaro. Kāhore ahau i pei ai i a ia kia mahi tēnā mahi, engari nā runga i te hiahia o te ngākau kei te mahi ia ngā mahi. He mea nui tērā ki ahau.

    My child, this is their first year in secondary school. They have joined the kapa haka of Pēwhairangi. And I am truly humbled. They thought of that on their own. I did not push them to do that, but because that is what their heart wanted to do, that is what they are doing. That is huge to me.

    Kua kaingia e ia i ngā taonga i mahue mātou mai ngā kaupapa haka. Hoki atu ki te kāinga ho he hāte hou, ho he poka hou, ho he keke, ho he kina. Nā konā ka mōhio ia ka whai hua ina ka uru au ki tēnei ao haka. Nō reira he hari tēnā tā ngā mātua ki te kite o tamariki ake kia uru atu ki roto i runga i o rātou hiahia,

    They are reaping the beneits that come from haka events. Return home, oh there is a new shirt, oh there’s a new jersey, oh there’s cake, there’s kina. So, from that they realised there are benefits that come if I join this haka world. So that makes the parents happy to see their own children join by their own free will,

    Nā konā mātou kua tō te kākano. Waiho mā tētahi atu te ringiringi wai ki runga. Kia puāwai te tupu, kia tupu tōna purapura, kia puawai tētahi roiho i tōna wā.

    So, we’ve planted the seed. Leave it for someone else to sprinkle water over them. So that they may blossom, so that their seed may grow, and eventually blossom into a rose.

    Ka tika. Me te ātaa’ua ‘oki o ērā kōrero, tā te mea nei, he tauhou tēnei ki ngā mahi o te mātua. He pēpi noa iho tāku. Heoi anō rā e kite au tērā āhuatanga o te mātua i a rātou e kite ana i ō rātou tamariki, e puāwai ai i roto i tō rātou ake ao.

    Absolutely. What a beautiful statement because I am a newbie to parenthood. I’ve got a baby. But I do see that element of parenthood, seeing our children blossom in their own lives.

    Nō reira, ko tāku nei ki a kōrua e mihi atu ana. Anō nei he hiahia he tonotono anō hoki ki a kōrua, tēnā waiho mai ēte’i kupu akiaki, kaua ki ngā ākonga noa iho engari ki ō tamariki, i roto i tēnei ao ‘uri’uri. E tino rerekē ana ki te ao e tupu ai tātou.

    So, I’d like to acknowledge you both. I’d also like to request something from you both. Please leave some words of encouragement, not only to the students but to your children, in this everchanging world. It’s an entirely different world from the one we grew up in.

    Tēnā he a’a ngā kupu kōrero whakamutunga ki ō tamariki ki ēnei tamariki hei arahina ake i a rātou i roto i tēnei ao ‘uri’uri nei

    So, what are your final words to your children, to these children, to guide them in this everchanging world

    Kōrero akiaki. Well kua hora katoa ōku whakaaro. Kei a koe te tikanga mehemea hiahia ana te kapohia. Engari mōku ake, he aro nui tēnei ki ngā, ki a koutou ngā kaihaka o te kāinga nei, mau pūmau ki tō momo o Ngāpuhi-nui-tonu. Kaua kōtiti. Me mau pūmau nā te mea ko koe tērā kei te para i te huarahi mō ngā uri whakatupu, 

    Words of encouragement. Well, I’ve already laid out all of my opinions. It’s up to you whether you want to take them on board. But for me, I am mainly focusing on you performers from here, holdfast to the style of Ngāpuhi-nui-tonu. Don’t deviate. Hold firm because it will be up to you to clear the pathway for the future generations,

    Nō reira, koirā tētahi o āku kupu akiaki rawa atu me te kaua e mutu te ako. Ahakoa ako ki te tunu kai, ako ki te reo Māori, ako ki te reo Ingarihi, ako ki ngā mahi kapa haka. Kaua mutu te ako. Mā roto i tērā āhuatanga ka taea e koe te whakawhanake ki te tū pakari ki roto i ngā mahi katoa.

    So, that would be one of my biggest words of encouragement, don’t ever stop learning. Whether that’s learning to cook, learning te reo Māori, learning the English language, learning how to do kapa haka. Don’t ever stop learning. Through that, you will be able to develop and stand staunch in whatever it is that you do.

    Kaua i te ao haka anake engari ki te manaaki tāngata, ki te tū hei kanohi mō tō marae. Aua mahi katoa he ātaahua te kite.

    Not only in te ao haka but to care for people, to be a seen face on your marae. All those things are beautiful to witness.

    He tirohanga ratonga tēnei. Titiro ahau ki oranga tamariki me te mōhio, whitu tekau paihēneti o ngā tamariki kua herea ki tērā nanakia, he Māori. He Māori kua ngaro i tō rātou tuakiritanga. Kāhore he hononga ki ō rātou marae, ki ō rātou iwi, ki ō rātou aha. Ka whakaarongia rātou he Pākehā kē rātou.

    I’m now looking at these services. I’m looking at Oranga Tamariki and I know that 70% of children tied to that villainous institution are Māori. They are Māori who have lost their identity. There is no connection to their marae, to their tribes, to anything. They think they’re Pākehā.

    Nā konā au tangi taku ngākau. Kōrero whakamutunga me tētahi waiata ā muri i tēnā. He whakakitenga nā tōku tupuna Aperahama Te Taonui i mua i tana matenga, tahi rau tekau mā waru tana matenga. Ko ia te pōtiki o te kaimoko i te Tiriti o Waitangi i te 1840.

    And my heart weeps. There are my final words and a song will follow. This was a revelation by my ancestor, Aperehama Te Taonui before he died, he died in 1018. He was the youngest signatory of Te Tiriti o Waitangi in 1840.

    Nō reira, tēnei whakakitenga nōhia ki runga i tēnei whenua, e hīa kē te tau. Ko tāna “ ā tōna wā ka tae mai tētahi taniwha ki roto i tō whare. Kīhei koe e mōhio, kīhei koe e rongo, kīhei koe e kite i tēnei taniwha, engari ka titiro koe ki te kanohi a ō uri ka kite koe ko tae mai te taniwha.

    So, this revelation has been on these lands for many, many years. He said “There will come a time where a monster will enter your house. You won’t know, you won’t hear it, you won’t see this monster, but when you look at the faces of your descendants, then you will see the monster has arrived.

    Kaua e patu i a ia engari ūhia ki runga i a ia te korowai o te aroha.” Mātāpono matua, mātāpono ariki. Aroha tētahi ki tētahi. Aroha i ō tātou mokopuna kei reira te āpōpōtanga mā tātou. Hoi, he waiata whakakapi hei taunaki ake, whakangāwari ake i tērā whakakitenga.

    Don’t smack them, but rather, let them be covered with the cloak of love.” The main principle, the paramount principle. Love one another. Love our grandchildren, for they are our future. However, a closing song in support, to ease that vision.

    [Singing]

    He taonga taku ngākau ko taku mokopuna e

    He mokopuna korikori

    Hei aha, hei aha rā

    Ko te mea nui ko te aroha
    Kaua e patu i aku mokopuna

    Me awhiawhi mai taku mokopuna korikori e

    Me awhiawhi mai taku mokopuna korikori e

    [E waiata ana]

    He taonga taku ngākau ko taku mokopuna e

    He mokopuna korikori

    Hei aha, hei aha rā

    Ko te mea nui ko te aroha
    Kaua e patu i aku mokopuna

    Me awhiawhi mai taku mokopuna korikori e

    Me awhiawhi mai taku mokopuna korikori e

    Ngāpuhi, Te Rārawa, Ngāti Ka’u koutou kei Te Aupōuri ngā kano’i ora ngā ‘apū ngā waka ngā aue Ngāti W’ātua e rau rangatira ngā mōtoi kura, ngā koko tangiwai, ngā kuru pounamu tēnā rawa atu kōrua. Tēnei te au ō mihi.

    Ngāpuhi, Te Rārawa, Ngāti Kahu, Te Aupōuri, the living faces, the subtribes, the canoes, the winds of Ngāti Whātua, my esteemed chiefs, the ornaments made of greenstone, the greenstone ear pendants, the ornaments of greenstone, thank you both.

    Together Isaiah and Muritere stand and perform a haka from their rohe. Showing Ihi, wehi and wana Isaiah and Muritere add free flowing actions depicting the meaning of their words. 

    Interview closes and fades to black. The first shot is of the ocean at sunset, cutting to the road sign for Cape Reinga and Whāngarei. Back to the Whare Rūnanga at Waitangi Treaty grounds. Back to the welcome sign for Kaitaia, back to the beach and then over to a bird's eye view of the town centre. Back to a mural and then again with the shot of the sand and waves crashing. Road signs to Ahipara and a shot of a beautifully carved walkway entrance. A shot of whānau standing in the Ngāpuhi doorway chanting “Tīhei Mauri Ora.” Back to Waitangi Treaty Grounds, then the monument of the boy and dolphin. Another bird's eye view of the north, finishing with the logo that reads and of Te Tāhuhu o te Mātauranga.

    [ Accordion ]

    Music in the background continues through the whole introduction with opening scene of the beach side with rakau. Camera shot of marae and changes to drive past ocean as visual changes to a bay with a log on the beach and water and trees in background. Camera then pans ground level across the beach showing seaweed and then shows coastal shore with rocks and water in the background. Wave crashes around rock and shows close-up on water breaking close to rocks. Camera view of a sign saying “Nau mai, haere mai, you are entering the tribal lands of Te Whanau a Apanui. Next taking a drive into the rohe surrounded by ngahere. Camera then pans with a jetty and ocean and a small community in the background surrounded by hills. Quick visuals of Waihau Bay Lodge and changing visual to a park where the swings are moving with other obstacles in background. Camera pans across the water and down the jetty where the words Te Whānau-a-Apanui appear and screen goes black with Te Whanau a Apanui still showing before the words Te Ao Haka appear.

    Te Reo Māori

    English

    Kei te rangatira kei te Pāpā e Rikirangi tēnā rā koe i tēnēi rā. Kua tae mai ki te tautoko i te puna pāoho mō tēnēi kaupapa Te Ao Haka. Ki ngā Wharekura, ki ngā Kura Tuarua. Nau mai haere mai ki tēnēi kaupapa. Tuatahi ake, ko wai koe, nō hea koe?

    My esteemed leader and relative, Rikirangi, thank you for coming today. You’ve come to support our podcast today for te ao haka that is being taught in Māori immersion high schools, and mainstream high schools. Welcome. First, who are you and where are you from?

    Ko Rikirangi Gage toku ingoa. Taha tōku koka nō Te Whanau muri, Ngati Uepōhatu, Ngāti Porou. Taha toku Pāpā nō konei nō Te -Whānau-ā-Apanui, Te Whakatōhea me Ngāti Maniapoto.

    My name is Rikirangi Gage. On my mother’s side I am from Te Whānau-a-Muri, Ngāti Ue and Ngāti Porou. On my father’s side I’m from here, from Te Whānau-a-Apanui, Te Whakatōhea and Ngāti Maniapoto.

    Tēnā koe me ngā kāwai whakapapa kua whakataki mai nei. 

    Thank you and your genealogy that you have introduced today.

    Tuatahi rā, Uncle, ō mahara tuatahi mō te kapa haka, he aha erā?

    Firstly Uncle, your earliest memories of kapa haka, what was that?

    Me kī, ehara i te kapa haka whakataetae nei, engari ko te noho, ko te tipu ki tētahi wāhi pēnei i a Ruatōria, me te haere hoki ki Maungahaumi, i ētahi wā ki Hiruhārama, ka tūtakitaki koe ki tērā mahi nā te mea i te puāwai mai i konā i raro i te momo pēnei i a Sani mā, i roto hoki i ngā huihuinga.

    I suppose not kapa haka in a competition sense, but living up and living in a place, being brought up in a place like Ruatōria, going out to Maungahānea and sometimes going out to Hiruhārama, you're going to collide with that activity because it was flourishing there with the likes of Sanini and in gatherings.

    Ko ngā waiata hei kīnaki ērā i te taha ngahau me te taha whanaungatanga. He waiata mō ngā mahi katoa. Nō reira, ngā wā i haere ai mātou ki reira, he wāhanga tērā o te horopaki. Kāore mātou i pātai i te take i reira, engari i reira, ā, he tāera motuhake, he momo kawe tō ngā waiata. He pēnei i tō reo taketake. Koinā ngā oro taketake e rongo ai ngā roro, ā, ka mahara rā koia i ngā wā katoa.

    The songs, it was an accompaniment of the festive and social life. Waiata mō nga mahi katoa. So whenever we went to there, it was part of the context. Didn't question why it was there or how it was there, but it was there and it had its unique style and unique way of singing. It's like your mother tongue. That becomes the mother sounds that your brain hears and treats as normal.

    Nō reira, 11 tau pea tō pakeke ka haere koe i tō haerenga tuatahi? I Ngāti Porou kē rānei koe?

    So, you were around 11 years old when you experienced your first haerenga or were back in Ngāti Porou?

    Āe, āe. There was ah, both Sanini ō reira kei te mōhio ahau ki a ia. He mahi tāna mā Te Kotahitanga me Te Whānau-a-Rua tahi ki a Hōri Ngāwai me Tuini. Kāore i te mōhio nā wai i whakarite, engari ko ngā rōpū e rua ko Te Hokowhitu-a-Tū me Hikurangi i haere ngātahi ai ki Te Waipounamu, ā, ka haere ki te whakatū konohete i Te Ika-a-Māui ka heke, hurihuri rauna i Te Waipounamu. Nō reira me kī, i rumakina ahau ki tērā mō ētahi wiki.

    Ae, Ae. There was ah, both Sanini. So, I know her. She had a job to do as far as the Kotahitanga Movement was concerned and of course, Te Whānau-a-Rua with Hori Ngawai and Tuini. I don't know who organized it, but the two groups that is Te Hokowhitu-a-tu and Hikurangi went down the South Island together. And had all these concerts in North Island and went down, hurihuri rauna the South Island. So you can say, I was immersed in that for a few weeks.

    Wī! Nō reira,

    Wow, so,

    Nō reira koirā te konohete tuatahi, e noho ana ki te marea, mātakitaki ai, whakarongo ai ki ngā waiata.

    So that was our first concert sitting in the crowd watching the concert and hearing the songs.

    Kei te mahara koe ki ngā momo waiata i waiatahia e rātou i aua wā?

    Do you remember the types of songs they were singing back then?

    Heoi ano, ko ngā mea i waia ai mātou ki te whakarongo atu nō mātou e tamariki ana, engari ko tētahi wāhanga o te konohete, ka. Kua wareware i ahau te ingoa o te. Ko ngā kōtiro ka. Tētahi ka waiata, ā, taku mōhio i te kōrerohia i mua rā, ko tētahi ko “I Love Paris in the Springtime”. 

    Well, there were the normal ones that we were exposed to as a child but part of the concert they would. I forget the name of the, the girls would. One would sing a song and think I was mentioning earlier, one was I Love Paris In The Springtime. 

    Ka pēhea a I Love Paris?

    How does I Love Paris Go?

    Sings…..“I love Paris in the morning, I love Paris in the mo.. I love Paris in the, when it glistens. I love Paris in December”

    Sings… I love Paris in the morning, I love Paris in the mo.. I love Paris in the, when it glistens. I love Paris i December

    Nō reira koirā te wāhi i -

    And so that's where the-

    Āe, ā, ko koe ka… Koirā te hiahia mō te waiata, ā, me kimi e koe he taurapa, he tauihu me ētahi rauawa mō ngā wāhanga kōrihi (waiata). He hononga pai mō te waiata. 

    Yeah and so you... That's the view for the song, then you got to find a taurapa and tauihu and some rauawa for the chorus parts (singing). It's a good hono for the sound.

    Rawe. Ātaahua. Nō reira, i tō tipuranga ki roto o Ngāti Porou, i haka rānei tō māmā, tō pāpā, a Nannie D rānei?

    Wow. Beautiful. So, growing up around Ngāti Porou, did Mum and dad do any type of haka or Nannie D?

    Kāo, i waiata taku māmā i ngā waiata e pā ana ki Te Kotahitanga. Heoi ano, e ai ki a ia i titoa ētahi o ngā waiata, e ai ki a ia, i Te Whānau-a-Apanui, te wāhi i whānau ai ahau. “Put Your Sweet Lips”. Ā, he mea anō i titoa e Tuini mā Te Kotahitanga. “Haere mai tātou e…”

    No, my mother would sing songs and songs related to the Kotahitanga Movement. Well, a couple of the songs were actually composed, so according to her, over here in Te-Whānau-ā-Apanui where I was born. Put Your Sweet Lips. And there's another one Tuini composed for the Kotahitanga. Singing…. Haeremai tātou e..

    Āwaia!

    Wow.

    Te Kotahitanga rā e. Āe.

    Singing…Te Kotahitanga rā e. Yeah.

    I waimarie koe ki te tūtaki ki a Tuini Ngawai?

    So, you were lucky enough to grow up and see Tuini Ngawai?

    19 pea taku pakeke. I reira ahau i tana tangihanga. Ka piki rākau e kite ai ahau.

    I might have been 19. And I was at her tangi. Climbed up the tree to have a look over and see.

    Nō reira, ko tō kokenga i te kura, i haka rānei koe i mua mai i te kura tuatahi, kura waenga rānei?

    So, and then going through kura did you do any kapa haka earlier on in Kura Tuatahi, Kura Waenga?

    Kāo, hāunga i te wā i whakaakona ai mātou e tētahi kōkā ōku, ko Queenie, Queenie Tāwhai. (Chanting)

    Nāku i āpiti ki te waiata nō muri mai.

    No, except for what we were taught at Manutai by an auntie of mine, Queenie, Queenie Tawhai. (Chanting) 

    I added that into a song later on.

    I tō titonga?

    When you composed.

    Āe. Ko te auahatanga tērā. Arā, a (ka waiata) he waiata…tūturu tērā.

    Oh yeah. Oh, I mean that's a bit of poetic license. Even (singing), that's a real jeru song.

    (Ka waiata) Āe, he pai tēnā nā.

    (Sings)Yep, that's a cool one.

    Āe. Nō reira, (ka waiata) taku mōhio kāore rātou e kaha riri mai. 

    Yeah, so. (Sings) Yeah. I don't think they'll growl me too much.

    Ka pai. Nō reira, ka wehe koe i te kura tuatahi me te kura waenga ka haere koe ki te wharekura, nē? Ki te kura o Tīpene?

    Cool. So, leaving Kura tuatahi and Kura Waenga you went through Wharekura aye, to Te Kura o Tipene?

    Heoi anō, i hou te rongo o te kura rā mō te haka me te whutupōro, ērā momo āhuatanga. Engari, i reira ahau, ā, i a koe ka tipu, kei te āhua pērā koe. Kia whakaaro ake ki te waharoa ‘he karu puritia ko ngā kaupapa kia mau ngā tamariki’ hei mātakitaki. Nō reira ka pākīkī haere koe. Nō reira, i tētahi rā ka waea atu taku māmā ki a Ngoi, ā, te mutunga iho ka noho atu mō tētahi wīkene o te rā whānau o te Kuīni, e toru rā. Ā, ka tōia mai ko ōna tuākana, tēina nō tua o te rori, ko Nunu, kātahi ko Tuku Parata, āe, me Ngoi, nāna i pupuri mai i ēnei wāhine mō te toru rā e waiata ana.

    Well, the school itself had a lot of prestige around haka and rugby and all that sort of stuff. But I was there and so as you're growing, you are sort of, [1] think about te waharoa, he karu puritia ko ngā kaupapa kia mau ngā tamariki to watch, so, you get inquisitive. So, one day my mother rings up to Ngoi and basically, I end up a Queen's birthday weekend, three days. And she had pulled in her sister across the road, Nunu and then Tuku Parata , yeah and Ngoi, and she had these poor women sing continuous for three days.

    Wī.

    Whoa.

    Ka kī ahau, “Ānana, ka ako ahau i ngā waiata ngahau katoa.” Kāo, i te ako (waiata) kē ahau i Te Kotahitanga. Engari e toru rā, ka waiata rātou i ērā waiata katoa nā Tuini i tito, i hono rā ki tāna kaupapa ki Te Pūtahitanga me ētahi atu o āna waiata hoki. Ko tētahi mea nui, i kōrero rā rātou mō ngā wāhine rangatahi e haere tahi ana ki ō rātou kaumātua ki tētahi Aotearoa maunahea ki te waiata e pā ana ki Te Tiriti me te āhua o ō rātou oranga. Ka homai e rātou he pukapuka kī ana i ngā waiata a Tuini, ā, ka kī mai a Ngoi, “Tāhau e pīrangi ai, haramai ki te tiki.”

    I said, "Oh man, I'm going to learn all the party songs." No, I was learning (singing)Te Kotahitanga. But three days they basically sang all those songs that Tuini had composed, linked to her Kotahitanga Movement and some of the other songs as well. But more importantly, they spoke about their young woman going with their kaumātua's to a very reluctant New Zealand wide audience singing about things like The Treaty and their treatment. They gave me a book and it had all Tuini songs in and Ngoi said to me, "Whatever you want, you can come and take it."

    Wī!

    Wow.

    Nō reira, e toru pō ka noho atu ahau, ā, koinā tāku wānanga.

    So I spent three nights and that became basically my wānanga.

    Nō reira, ka wānanga tahi koe ki a Nanny Ngoi i tērā wā, i pēhea tōna āhua?

    So, in having wānanga with Nanny Ngoi back then, what was she really like?

    Heoi anō, he Ringatū hoki, nō reira he mata o ngā waiata a Tuini i hua mai i tērā wheako. I tata rātou ki tōku pāpā, ā, i te whakaū tonu i tērā whanaungatanga. Ka kī mai a ia ki ahau, “I tuku mākohakoha ki a mātou, ka tuku mākohakoha atu ki a koe.” Ā, ko ahau i reira e tīwaha ana “iiiieeeehaaaa.”

    Well, they were Ringatū, so there was a dimension to Tuini's songs that come out of that experience. They had a relationship with my father and they were basically continuing that, really. She said to me, "He gave freely to us and we give freely to you." And I was going "Yeehaw."

    Ā, he wā hoki ōna mehemea i whiua atu e koe ngā pātai maha mō āna titonga me ērā i tukuna e tōna kuia ki a ia?

    And were there times where you asked her lots of questions about her compositions and the compositions she got from her nan?

    Ko te tikanga o mua ka noho koe, ka whakarongo, āe. Mehemea ka eke koe ki te taumata, ka mahara koe. Engari, kotahi anake te ahunga o te kōrero nā te mea inā te pakeke i ahau.

    The old way is you sit down and listen and yeah. If you are good enough, you'll remember. But I mean they, I think it was a more one way because they're miles older than me.

    Yeah, so he taonga te whakarongo me te maumahara.

    Yeah, so listening and remembering are important.

    Āe. Nō reira, i a koe i Tīpene, i tīmata rā koe ki te tito i ō titonga tuatahi i taua wā, e whakamahi ana i ngā kupu whakarite me ngā waiata?

    Aye. So going through Tipene, you started your first compositions around that time using metaphors and waiata?

    Ko te mea kē, hika, i ngā rekereke ahau o tētahi o ngā tino, ki ahau nei ko te tino kaitito, ā, koinā te tūāpapa o aku titonga. Nō reira, he hinengaro tamariki tōku, ā, e whakatewhatewha ana ahau i tēnei. E ngana ana ahau ki te wetewete. Ka pēhea tā te rehe tuitui i ngā whakaaro, ā, ka whakamahi ai i te oro hei waka, tae atu rā ki ngā nekenekehanga, he whakamīharotanga. He whakamīharotanga e waiatahia ana, ki ōku nei whakaaro. I te whare wānanga kē ahau i mua i taku taenga ki te whare wānanga, ā, mehemea kei te mārama koe ki ērā waiata, he wānanga tonu kei roto. Inā taku māngari nui.

    The thing was, well, I had access to one of the greatest, I consider the greatest composer that's basically my model for composition. So I'm got a young mind and I'm interrogating this. I'm trying to pull it apart. How is a genius of the mind that can stitch whakaaro together and then use sound as a waka and then movement, poetry in motion. Sung poetry in motion, I think. I actually was already at university before I got to university and if you understand those songs, it's a wānanga in itself. I was very, very fortunate.

    Āe. He nui rānei ngā kupu whakarite i whakamahia ai e rātou ki ā rātou waiata?

    Yeah. Do you think that they used a lot of metaphors back then when they wrote their songs?

    Āe rā. Ka mahara ahau i kī rā ahau ki tōku māma, “Ō, ēnei kupu, kua wehe ngā paraikete kei te makariri te whetū marama.” Āe, he kupu whakarite. Ana, mō te tārai kupu hoki, ko Tuini te taumata. Mōku, he kete mātauranga i rukuhia e koe. Nō reira, i waimarie ahau nā te mea ka waiatahia ana e rātou ngā waiata, pai tonu taku…nā te mea i a rātou ka waiata, i te tuhi ahau, “Ō, ka puritia te…”. I tino aro i ahau te wāhi ki ngā oropuare. 

    Oh yeah. I remember saying to my mother, "Oh, these words, kua wehe ngā paraikete kei te makariri te whetū mārama." Yeah, metaphor. I mean, the thing of the poet is, Tuini is the consummate poet. So for me, there was a kete of knowledge that you could delve into. So I was lucky because when they had sung the songs, I was pretty good at remembering the... because as they were singing, I was writing, "Oh, they hold it on their..." I always picked up their treatment of vow sounds. It's-

    He aha te tikanga o tērā, Uncle, te whakamahinga o ngā oropuare?

    What does that mean Uncle, treatment of vowel sounds?

    AEIOU. Mehemea koe ka whakarongo ki tō rātou…nā te mea he matatau ki te kōrero, ā, ko tō rātou tangi mai i pārekareka ki te taringa, kāore i tiotio pēnei i te tangi o te pounamu Champagne, pēnei i ētahi o ngā…

    AEIOU. If you listen to their... because they were fluent speakers and so the, their sound was euphonious to the ears, not grinding like sandpaper, like some of the...

    Pērā i ētahi o ngā…Kāo.

    Like some of the... No.

    Na, koinā te kurahuna o ngā mea matatau ki te kōrero i te reo, e mōhio ana ki te hōhonutanga o ngā waiata e waiatatia ana e rātou, ā, he hononga tō rātou ki taua tangi rā. Ka kī rā rātou, he nui tonu te whakaaweawe mai o te mahi a Tuini.

    I mean, that's the other unique thing is that you've got people who are fluent in the language, know the depth of the songs they're singing, and they have a genuine attachment to that sound. They would say, Can't say enough about the influence of Tuini's work.

    Kei te mahara koe ki te waiata tuatahi nāu i tito, ā, ko te aha te ingoa?

    Do you remember the first song you composed and what it was called?

    Kia mōhio mai, i hua ake i te mea rā. I pakeke mai ahau i Ngāti Porou. (ka waiata). Ka rongo ahau i te reo waiata, engari kāore he tangata. Karawhiua ana. Kātahi ka panoni noa iho ahau i ētahi kupu kia ō ai. (ka waiata) I waimarie ahau i taua wā. Ko tētahi o ōku koroua nō Ngāti Porou i te mahi ki Tīpene, ko Blackie Pōhatu, ā, ka toro mai a ia i ōna wā. Ka hoatu, ka whakahaere akoranga mā ngā, ā, he pai hoki āna kupu akiaki. 

    Oh, actually it was a take off of, it's a thing. I was brought up in Mgāti Porou . (singing) . I hear music but there's no one there. Arty's thrash it. Then I just changed some of the words to fit. (singing) I was lucky at the time. One of my koroua from Ngāti Porou was working at Tipene, Blackie Pohatu and he would drop in sometimes. He would give, he would run some classes for the, and he would give some really good advice.

    E mahara nei au ki tētahi atu waiata, ā, ka whakaaturia atu ngā kupu ki a ia. “Ō, pai atu te mea tū i runga?” I pērā koe, nā te mea āhua hauā koe. Ko tōna māmā, he wahine i mōhiotia mō te mōteatea, nō reira āe. I waimarie i te kura, engari kei korā a Blackie.

    I remember doing one other song and I showed him the words. "Oh, pai atu te mea tu i runga?" You were, because you are sort of hauā. His mother was a well known mōteatea person, so yeah. So lucky way at school, but Blackie's is over there. 

    Ka taea te whangai wetahi ō ngā...

    He was able to teach some of….

    Nō reira, e whakapae ana koe koirā te wā i tino kerewa ai, i tino auaha ai ngā tūpuna mō te āhua ki te titonga o ā rātou waiata, he ngahau, pēnei i te paraikete i kōrerotia rā e koe…?

    So do you think that would've been the time where tupuna were quite creative and clever about the way that they composed their waiata, fun times, like you spoke about the paraikete......?

    He tauira i reira. Ki te rangahau koe i te mōteatea, ka waihangatia e koe he kupu whakarite, i whakamahia rā i ētahi kaupapa motuhake, kāore te aroha e kaikirikiri ana, engari kia ruku rawa koe ki te kaupapa. Ko te kāore, i tērā horopaki, kāore he aroha pēnei i tēnei nei. Nō reira, ka titoa tētahi mō Maka, kāore te aroha e, pākeke, āe. Kāore he aroha pēnei, kāore he mamae pēnei. Nō reira i tīmata taku whakataki i tērā, ngā kīanga mōteatea ki -

    There were certain key patterns. If you study mōteatea, you start certain metaphors, they used for certain occasions, kaore te aroha e kairikiriki ana but it's not until you delve into it. Kaore in that sense means there's no love like this. So compose one for Maka, kaore te aroha e, pākeke, yeah. There's no love like, there's no pain like this. So I started introducing those, the mōteatea type structures into-

    Ki ō waiata.

    To your waiata.

    Āe, he aha i kore ai?

    Yeah, why not?

    Āe. Nō reira, nō muri mai i a Tīpene i hoki mai koe ki Te Whānau-a-Apanui?

    Yeah. So, after Tipene you came back to Te-Whānau-ā-Apanui?

    Kāo, i haere ahau ki…Heoi anō, i mīeretia pea ōku hoa e au mai i…I ngana ahau ki te haere ki te whare wānanga, engari he kōrero anō tērā. Nō reira, ka haere ahau ki Tāmaki, ā, ka heke ki Wikitōria, i reira ka tūtaki ki tētahi koroua ko Bill Parker tōna ingoa, i mahi rā ki te Māori, ko ia te Ahurangi mō, he tohunga puoro ki te reo Pākehā, he tohunga reo Māori. Tino tohunga. 

    No, I went to... Well, I probably best my mates from... I tried to go to university, but that's another story. So I went to Auckland and down to Vic where I met up with a koroua by the name of Bill Parker who worked in the māori, he was the ahurangi for. And Dorian of the English and Dorian of the Te Reo Māori. Tino tohunga .

    Nō reira i a ia e rangatahi ana ki Pōneke, ko te momo i a Aperana me Te Rewiri Kohere, e ai ki a ia ko ngā tino kaitārai kupu o Ngāti Porou. Whakamāoritia ai a Rurutao.

    So when he was a young fala in Wellington, he had the likes of Aperana and Te Rewiti Kohere, which he considers in one of the great poets of Ngāti Porou. Translate Shakespeare.

    Wī.

    Wow.

    Ko Rurutao, a, ko wai te Koterana… to marry thou lingering star with less'ning ray...te koroua e koe te whetū mārama...Nō reira, koia ko te noho tahi ki te koroua me te ruku i te hōhonutanga o te rua o te reo, tutū ai i ngā waiata, ā, i taua wā anō rā i reira hoki a Ruka Broughton. I a māua ko Ngaata i tāna whakahaerenga pae rua, tohu hōnore rānei pea. He motuhake anō te noho ki tētahi tohunga, tokorua rānei ngā tohunga. Nō reira ko ngā ringaringa ka whātoro atu, ka tangohia ngā mōhiotanga. Nō reira, ehara i te…kāore e rere i a koe. He āhuatanga ka hua mai i roto i te wā.

    Shakespeare and who's that Scottish... to marry thou lingering star with less'ning ray... te koroua e koe te whetū mārama...... So that's sitting with that koroua and go for the depth of language roto tonu i ngā waiata and at the same time we had the likes of Ruka Broughton. When Ngaata and I were in his masters, I think honors class. It's a unique to actually be in the presence of a Tohunga, two tohunga's. So put the hands in, tangohia ngā mohiotanga. So it's not a... It doesn't flow from you. It's something that you pick up over time.

    Ko te aha tō tino maharatanga i a koe e tipu ana ki te ao haka mō te wāhi ki te tito me te waiata i ngā waiata katoa i waiatahia rā i taua wā?

    What has been your favourite memory up to then around te ao haka in composition and singing all the waiata that were around at that time? 

    E waiata ana i ngā waiata a Tuini i ngā wā katoa. Mehemea ko ahau takitahi, ka waiata ahau i ngā waiata katoa i ahau nā te mea i ahau te pukapuka, arā, ahakoa te kaupapa, he waiata mō ngā mea katoa, te whai wāhine, te haere ki ngā pāti.

    Always singing Tuini songs. If I was alone, I'd sing all the songs that I had because I had the book and the thing is that it, no matter what the motive situation was, there was a song for everything, chasing girls around, going to parties...

    Haere ki ngā pāti.

    Going to parties.

    Ā, ko tētahi atu mea, ā, kāore anō i taka te kapa, tae rawa ki te, ka taka rā, arā, ko te tiriti me ngā mahi tōrangapū. Engari whakatōkia ai tērā mā te…he mahi anō te whakatōrangapū i te tangata, ko te aro anō ki te tōrangapū, kei roto i ēnei waiata nei.

    And the other thing was, and it didn't dawn on me till, well, it began to dawn was the treaty, political stuff. So that was ingrained through... there was a mode of politicized, being politically aware, is through those songs.

    E whakapae ana koe ko te kaupapa nui o taua wā ko te pakanga? Te pakanga, te aroha, tētahi e mate ana, whānau, i aua wā rā?

    Do you think the theme back then was only around the war. The pakanga, aroha, tētahi e mate ana, whānau, back then?

    Heoi anō, ko te mea kē, ko ia, ki ahau nei, ko tāna i tēnei ao ko te tārai kupu mā te iwi. I waiata ia mō ngā take o te wā. Ko tētahi waiata e whakaaro nui atu ana ahau, i whakamahia rā e ia te kupu ‘pūrari paka’. Nāwai rā, ka whai wāhi ana ahau, i kī ahau, ‘pūrari pokotiwha e.”

    I mean, the thing is the, she, to me anyway, she performed a role of a poet in society. She sung about things that were happening. One song I really think of is she used, use the word purari paka. So, later on when I had the opportunity, I said, "Purari poko tiwha e."

    He aha tērā waiata?

    What was that song?

    John Key

    Hone Kī.

    Āna.

    Oh, right.

    “Ngā mahi whakaparahako e ki taku mana Māori motuhake e”.

    “Your scandalous deeds against my Māori sovereignty”.

    He aha tāna waiata nāna I mahi I te Pūrari paka?

    What was her song that she used Pūrari paka?

    Taku mōhio i te kōhete a ia i tētahi minita.

    She was I think, telling off a minister.

    A.

    Oh.

    Nō reira, i te whānuitanga o te oranga kei reira te kaitārai kupu. Kei te hōhonutanga o te whakapono me te āhua ki te mana motuhake me Te Tiriti o Waitangi me te huahari mō tērā. Nō reira, pērā i tāku i kī rā, i wānanga kē ahau. Ko te mea nei e whakatinanahia ana. 

    So across the whole spectrum of life there's the poet. In the depth of the religion and the thing around Mana motuhake and Te Tiriti o Waitangi and the huarahi mō tērā. So, like I said, I already had a wānanga . The thing has been putting it into practice.

    Ko ngā waiata pāti, i tino ngākau nuitia, ā, i tino kerewa hoki tā rātou titotito mai. Kei te mahara rā koe ki ērā?

    Party songs back then were quite, well alive back then and they were very clever when they put them together. Do you remember any of them?

    He nui tonu kāore e tika ana kia waiatahia tūmanuitia.

    Oh, quite a few but they shouldn't be sung in public.

    Kāo, engari ngā mea whai take nē.

    No, but meaningful one's, aye.

    Kei te mahara ahau ki Sam Kāretu. He mea i kite ahau, arā, i te kōrero ia mō, heoi ano, ko te mea kē ko te whakatakotoranga. Ki te titiro atu ki te whakatakotoranga…I kōrero a Ruka mō ngā pao, ēnei kuia i Whanganui, mō te pao. Whiu kōrero, whakautu kōrero o ēnā mea katoa. Nō reira, ka puta ana koe, koinā te puoro e….

    But I remember Sam Karetu. There was a thing I saw him and he was talking about. I mean, the thing is it's the construct. When you look at the construct... Ruka used to talk about pao's, these kuia's up the Whanganui, for pao. Impromptu, things like that. So, when you go out and that's the music that you're...

    Nō reira, ki te puta koe, arā, koinā te puoro e…

    So when you go out and that's the music that you're...

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    Nō reira, e mōhio ana koe ko ēhea ko ā Tuini. E waiata ana ia, ā, kāore āku waiata i hāngai ki tō rātou horopaki, engari he nui ngā mea pai hei waiatahanga mā te tangata. Kaua ko āna. He waiata noa ēnā i waiatahia noatia i konā.

    You know which ones are Tuini's. She's singing and most of my thing were not in their context, but there were some really good ones that you could sing. Not hers. They were just songs that they were singing around there.

    Nō muri mai i te whare wānanga, i hoki mai koe? I whai tūranga anō koe i konei?

    After Whare wānanga you came back home? You seconded back here?

    Āe. I hoki mai ahau ki konei. I te mahi ahau ki Pōneke, ā, ka whai tūranga tuarua ki konei. Nō reira i whakaaro ahau me hoki mai.

    Yeah. I ended up back here. I was working in Pōneke and got seconded back here year. So I thought I'd come back.

    Ā, i hoki mai koe i te wā i tīmata ai a Te Whānau-a-Apanui? Te kapa?

    And you came back into a time when Te-Whānau-ā-Apanui was starting up? The Kapa?

    Ko ōku whanaunga, ko Emma Nehu mā, i te whakahaere rā i ngā tikanga e mau tonu ai te Apanuitanga. Engari, i hoki mai ahau. I te whare wānanga ahau, tahi ki a Wīremu Pāka me Ruka, nō reira…ko tōku ao ko te mōteatea.

    I mean, my cousins were basically, Emma Nehu they were basically running the dynamic to keep the people as an avenue to hold onto their Apanuitanga. But I came back. I had been at University, being with Wiremu Paka and Ruka so I was... My world was mōteatea.

    He aha ētahi o ngā āhuatanga papai, ki a koe, o te mōteatea?

    What are some of the things that you like about mōteatea?

    Ko tētahi ko te hōhonutanga o te reo. He rite tonu tā Bill Pāka mai ki ahau "Whāia e koe, pēnā mai te hiahia te hōhonutanga kei roto kei ngā waiata kē." Ā, ka hua i a ia tētahi kōrero mō ēnei tāngata ngaio i haramai rā me te kī ake kua rewa te reo i te kaitārai kupu Māori ki taumata kē. Nō reira, whāia te reo.

    Well, one is the depth of the language. So Bill Paka always said to me, "You study, pēnā mai te hiahia te hohonutanga kei roto kei ngā waiata kē." And he made this quote about these academics that had come there and said that the Māori poet had taken poetry to its heights. So study the language.

     Koina te reo katoa i a ki runga i ngā marae, ngā huihui nā te tangata. 

    That was the language on all of the marae, and the events people attended.

    Koirā te reo ka whakamahia i ngā whakahaerenga tikanga i runga marae me ērā tūāhuatanga. 

    That's the frame of language that's used in its ceremonial operations on marae and that.

    Ehara i te mea…kāore rātou…I warea katoa te iwi ki tērā mahi, me te kapa haka, engari i neke ahau mai i tēnei taha ki tēnei taha, ā, ka…āe.

    And it wasn't really being... there weren't... People was crazy for that as it was for doing kapa haka ,but so I moved in from that camp and absconded myself in this camp and became, yeah.

    Nō reira, e kī ana koe mō tō mātou whakareanga me te whakareanga o muri ake, me tīmata tā mātou rangahau i ngā kōrero o roto, koirā pea tētahi wāhi hei tīmata.

    So would you say for our generation and the younger generation, to start unpacking what the mōteatea are actually talking about where we could start from?

    Āe, nā te mea he tauira tēnei o te hinengaro Māori me tāna whakatinana mai, tāna whakamahinga hoki i te taiao. Tērā te marama ka mahuta i te pae. Tērā Kōpū, ngā whetū. Kāore i rerekē i te Kōtimana. ‘Thou lingering star with lessen'ing rays that loves the early morn’. Koirā te take i pai rā a Te Rewiti ki a Robert Burns, nā te mea pēnei i ngā Māori, i waiata a Robert Burns mō te taiao.

    Yeah, because it provides a model for the way the Māori mind expresses and uses nature. Tērā te marama ka mahau tei te pai.... Tērā kōpū, the stars. No different than the Scotsman, Thou lingering star with lessen'ing rays that loves the early morn. That's why I think Te Reweti liked Robert Burns, because Robert Burns like the Māori poets sung about nature.

    Ko Te Whānau-a-Apanui tō kapa haka tuatahi? Kapa haka pakeke?

    Was Te-Whānau-ā-Apanui your first kapa haka? Adult kapa haka?

    Āe. Anake.

    Yeah, only.

    Te tuatahi me te whakamutunga, nē?

    First and only, eh?

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    Ko wai ō kaiako i taua wā. 

    Who were the tutors back then?

    O, nō reira i te whakaako aku whanaunga i a Te Whānau-a-Apanui. I te noho atu ahau i ngā tāera puoro o te wā. I rawe ki ahau te tāera tawhito…arā, ko…taku mōhio he whakataukī tā Teitana Make. 

    Oh, so my cousins were tutoring Te-whānau-ā-Apanui. I was living away from all that modern jazz. I was into the old...Then there's, I think Teitana Make has a, whakatauki, 

    Te whare e tū ana i te pārae he kai nā te aha. Te whare e tū ana i te pā tuwatawata he tohu te rangatira. 

    A house that stands alone on the land is food for the fire. A house that stands within the palisade is a chiefly house.

    Ko te tikanga ko te…ko ahau me taku kotahi i konei, i Pūriritahi nei e waiata ana i taku mōteatea engari ko te marea kei raro iho rā. Nō reira, ka kī rātou “O, heke mai,” i horokukū engari i whai rautaki tonu i taku kī atu, “Āe. Āe, ka heke mai ahau.” Nō reira, ko tāku he tito e rere pai ai te mōteatea. Ngā hītori, ko ngā āhuatanga katoa o te mōteatea e rere atu ana ki te taiao.

    Basically means that... just me and my lonesome up here at Puriritahi singing my mōteatea but the crowd is down there. So when they said, "Oh, come down," I reluctantly but strategically said, "Yeah. Yeah, I'll come down." So what I did basically was compose so that mōteatea would flow. The histories, everything in mōteatea would flow into that environment.  

    Nā kōrero mō ngā tipuna, ngā kōrero mō ngā..... 

    The stories about the ancestors, the stories about the…

    Nō reira, i toa ahau i te mutunga o te rā.

    So I think I won at the end of the day.

    Nō reira, e ai ki a koe -

    So you think-

    He rautaki pai. Kāre he take o te whare tū ana i te parae. Āe. 

    But good strategy. No good just being whare e tū ana i te parae. Yeah.

    Yeah. So ko wai atu ngā kaiwhakako i aua wā rā, Nanny Maka, Nanny Emma?

    Yeah. So, who else were the tutors in those days? Nanny Maka? Nanny Emma?

    Āe. Āe. Nō reira he whānau pūmanawa nui ērā tuākana-teina. Katoa he whanaunga katoa ki ahau, ā, he pūmanawa motuhake o tēnā, o tēnā. He Ringatū anō hoki. Rumakina ana ki te tikanga me tērā momo āhuatanga, he mārohirohi me ngā mahi i te marae, ngā tikanga a Te Whānau-a-Apanui, wēna mea katoa – ko ērā kuia, ki ahau nei, kāore he rite. Otirā, ko rātou ngā mea me whai tātou mō te taha ki te whakangahau me te tauira i whakatakotoria e rātou. He taonga ki te whakareanga e pihi ake nei. 

    Oh, yes. Yes. I mean... So they're very talented family of sisters. They're all cousins to me and they had their own unique talent or Ringatū too. Immersed in tikanga and like, staunch mā mahi i te marae, ngā tikanaga ō Te-Whānau-ā-Apanui, all of those things those kuia, can't be touched in my book. Can't be touched by anybody. In fact, they're the ones we have to live up to in terms of how they performed in that arena and their standards that set. So really good for the next generation.

    Āe. Nō reira he tuākana-teina rātou, ā, he mahi motuhake tā tēnā, tā tēnā, he pūkenga motuhake tō tēnā, tō tēnā, ā, kia kotahi mai ana rātou, whakahirahira ana.

    Yeah. So, they were a pack of sisters, and they all had a different role, different skill set and then when they came together it was magic.

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    Āe. He aha te rerekētanga o Nanny Maka i a Nanny Emma?

    Yeah. What was the difference between Nanny Maka and Nanny Emma.

    He tito a Maka, he tito anō a Emma. He mōhiotanga ake ō rāua ki ngā tikanga, mōhio ki te reo, mōhio ki ngā mea karakia. Nō reira, tēnā, tēnā he whetū i te rangi, e tīramarama ana i tōna anō hinātore, i tōna anō korōria. 

    Maka composed and Emma composed. They had their own, they knew tikanga and they knew the language and they also knew karakia. So, each a star in the sky, in its own brightness and its own glory.

    Āe. I reira hoki a Koro Bill Tāwhai, nē?

    Yeah. And Koro Bill Tawhai was around then too, aye?

    Tata tonu kua Bill Pāka i Te Whānau-a-Apanui. He tangata mōhio.

    I mean, he was nearly Bill Paka in Te-Whānau-ā-Apanui. He was very erudite. 

    Mō te tū ki te kōrero. 

    He was unchallenged for oratory.

    Ngutu miere.

    He had honey on his tongue. 

    Rawe mō te whakatakoto. 

    He could really tell a tale. 

    I tāna tuhingaroa, mehemea koe ka pānui i tāna tuhingaroa, ngāwari tonu te reo, ehara i te mea he whā, rima kū pēnei i ngā kupu e whiua haeretia ana.

    Even his thesis, you read his thesis, ngāwari tonu te reo I don't think four or five syllable type words that everybody seem to throw into. 

    Ngāwari tonu te tuku i te reo and e pērā tonu te koroua, e tohunga mō te whakairo i te kupu.

    The language is simple, that’s what that old man was like, he was an expert orator. 

    Ki konei mō te taha ki te kapa haka me te Hāhi Ringatū. He mea hihiri tērā momo kaupapa.

    And in kapa haka and the Ringatū faith too. That was an enlightening topic. 

    He mea nui tērā ki a Te Whānau-a-Apanui e noho tahi ai ērā mea e rua? Te reo, Hāhi, haka, waiata.

    Was that really important for Te-Whānau-ā-Apanui to make sure that those two things were together? Te reo, Hāhi, haka, waiata.

    Āe. He tirohanga tērā o rātou ki te ao tūroa. 

    Yeah. Basically there's a reflection of how they view the universe. 

    Taha wairua, taha tinana, taha kikokiko. Taha tinana kē ahua flows from the wairua. 

    The spirit, the body, the flesh. The body really flows from the wairua. 

    Nō reira, katoa he hirahira e mau tonu ai te kauhanganui me te mōhio hoki ki te mātāpuna. Nō reira, mehemea kei te kōrero koe mō te ihi, me te wehi – koinā te mātāpuna. Nō reira, ko te mea kē, ko te…āe.

    So it's all important to keep the balance and to know where the source is. So, if you are asking for ihi and wehi, that's where the source is. So the thing is to, yeah.

    E whakapae ana koe, nō te tau 1986, me kī i haere rātou ki Ōtautahi, tae rawa mai ki tēnei wā, kua whanake te tāera me te tū a Apanui mai i aua wā?

    Do you think from 1986, say they went to Christchurch, to now kapa haka's evolved in the style and the stance of Apanui has evolved since those times? Oh

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    Āe. He aha, kia koe, te take e rerekē ana ināianei?

    Yeah. What do you think that's happened now? 

    Taiao, kei te rereke, kei te huri te ao?

    The environment, things are changing, the world is changing?

    He nui ngā āhuatanga. Ka ako koe i te mahi. Nō reira, ko te rite o ngā reo he poraka, engari ka kuhu mai ētahi tohunga waiata ki te whakangungu i tētahi momo waiata e hāngai ana ki te momo tangi i hiahia rā mātou.

    A lot of things. I mean, you learn in the process. So I mean, we start off singing like bull frogs, but we got people, trained singers to come in and teach a type of singing that fit the type of sound we wanted to produce.

    Ā, nō reira i hua mai ko tētahi tangi pai, nō reira ka whanake te tangi i te rere o te wā.

    And so we actually got a really good fit and so sound develops over time.

    Ā-nekehanga nei? Heoi anō, mehemea ko te whakataetae, me whakaaro ki te wāhi me te wāhi e noho rā ngā kaiwhakawā.

    Movement wise? Well, if it's competition stuff, then you're impacted on by space and where the judges are sitting.

    E noho atu ana rātou. Kāore e pai kia mahi ringa pēnei. Engari ināianei, me te pouaka whakaata, pai, engari i muri he aha me āhua whānui ehara me ngā ringaringa. Nō reira, poipoia tērā. Nō reira ko ngā nekehanga e hāngai ana ki te mea e mātakitakina ana me te mea e whakarongona atu ana. Ka āhua whakaari nei engari ka whai tonu ki te pupuri ki tētahi momo tū i konei.

    They're sitting back there. No good having actions like this (demonstrates action). But now with the TV and the, pai but back there he aha me ahua whānui ehara me ngā rinaringa. So encourage that. So the look is about sight and sound in a way. So we end up getting semi production but trying to maintain a certain, momo tū, momo tū i konei.

    Yeah. Yeah, He ātaahua te kori ā ngā wāhine ō konei me te haka ā ngā tāne. Kei a koe he momo tū tēnā ō Apanui?

    Āe. Āe. The women here perform beautifully as do the men. Do you have a particular stance here in Apanui?

    Āe. I whakarite mātou kia pērā. Ko te mea whakamutunga hei whakamātautau māhau, me tū ki te pātiki o iwi kē atu. Ngāti Porou mō au ā te tū te kori o Ngāti Porou, kāore koe e pērā, nō reira, me kimi he momo piu he momo tū ano, ā, ka waihanga mai i ngā nekehanga, ngā mea katoa e hāngai ana ki tēnei.

    Yeah. We made it like that. Last thing you want to do, try and stand in another iwi's paddock. Ngāti Porou mō au ā te tū te kōri ō Ngāti Porou well, you are not going to be that so me kimia he momo piu he momo tū ano that fits with you and design your movement and thing around it.

    Yeah. I kōrero tētahi ki a ko Koro Ngaapo, he kōrero nā, i puta mai he kōrero.

    Yeah. I spoke with Koro Ngāpō, and he told a story.

    I haere mātou ki Whangarei, me tana tino harikoa e ko puta mai tae atu mātou ki roto I ēnā, ki roto I tēnā mahi whakataetae. Ka eke ia I tā mātou pahi, ka kore mātou e wareware he aha ngā kōrero o te koroua rā, nā runga I tōna aroha, mea mai kia mātou, kaua e whai mai i ahau. Ka mutu, he hikuroa Waka Huia, Waihirere katoa mātou. Kōira tānam me whakatūpato ia mātou, kaua e whai, kimihia tō koutou ake tū. Tō koutou ake hari tō Te-Whānau- ā- Apanui. Ko tāku, ēra tū ō mātou.

    We went up to Whangārei and he was so happy that we went and entered each of those competitions. He came into our bus and never forgot, we never forget because he did it out of love for us, don’t follow us. Don't be. And of course we were all close to Waka Huia and Waihirere. That was his biggest caution to us, don’t be like us, find your own style for Te Whānau-a-Apanui. I said those are our styles.

    Ko te kōrero āwhina pai ko te mahi me te whakapau kaha ki tērā mea. Nō reira, ko te mea e rongo ana koe ināianei i ahu mai i ngā tohutohu pai, ngā tohutohu mō tērā mea. Nō reira, ko te aronga kāore e hāngai ki te papa whakatū waewae anake, engari mō te tū me te āhua o ngā tāngata o raro i te papa, nā te mea ko te ingoa o te iwi kei I a rātou. Koirā e waimarie nei mātou ki te hunga pēnei i a Hone mā, he tangata ā-iwi kē hoki.

    Probably the best advice was to do and to work hard at that. So what you probably see in here now is a result of some really good advice and some good tohutohu mō tērā mea. So the focus is not only on the stage, but mō te tū me te ahua ō nā tangata off the stage beacause ko te ingoa ō te iwi e ingoa ō ia rātou. That's something that we fortunate to have the likes of Hone and them, very iwi proud people.

     Nō reira, kia makare tō tarau, ka hoki te whakama ki te iwi. 

    So, if your pants fall down, it’s the iwi that are embarrassed. 

    Ko tētahi wāhanga nui ko te ako i roto i tētahi kapa haka ā-iwi.

    Part of the learning comes with being in iwi kapa haka from an iwi. 

    Ko te ingoa ō te iwi, Nō rerira me rangatira te tū, me rangatira te whakaaro, kaua e mate wheke.

    The name of the tribe, so you must stand like a chief and think like a chief, that’s the 

    Te tū ā te momo haka, stance, a haka stance? He rite ki tētahi atu ō nā koutou ano i whakairo i tēnā momo tū?

    Haka stance? Is it similar to anyone or did you develop your own stance?

    Na, me kī ahau te tū a Te Tai Rawhiti, tōna tū. Ei, e mōhio ana te ao katoa ka heke atu koe ki reira me te momo piu, he momo mea nō Te Tai Rawhiti wēnā. Ā, koinā pea te rohe e tika ana kia noho atu mātou. Nō reira, kāore he take o te mahi.

    Well, I will say te tū ō Te Tai Rawhiti, tona tū. Hey, everybody knows you come down there and momo piu, e momo mea nō Te Tai Rawhiti wēnā. And that's the probably regional paddock we belong in. So no good trying to do something.

    Nō reira, ko ērā ētahi o ngā mea me whai nā te mea koirā te tū. Kāore e tika ana kia rerekē mai. 

    And so those there are some things you follow because that's the form. It wouldn't make sense to be trying to do something different.

    Āe, ko te taparahi, ko te tū taparahi.

    Taparahi aye, taparahi stance

    Āe.

    Yeah.

    Ko te tito, Uncle, nō hea mai tō, hāunga ia ngā kōrero o mua me te toikupu ka hua mai, me ngā waiata, he aha ētahi tohutohu ki te hunga rangatahi e tū ai rātou hei kaitito? He aha āu kupu āwhina i a rātou?

    Composition, Uncle, where do you get your, other than getting your inspiration from the old sayings and the poetry that happens, and the songs, what is some advice to our younger people to be able to become good composers? What advice would you give them?

    Heoi anō, mōku, he tohunga tōku hai -

    Well, for me, I had an expert that I could-

    E mōhio ana ahau. 

    I know.

    Nō reira, kōwhiria mai he tangata pai ki a koe, he rōpū pai rānei ki a koe, kātahi ka ruku atu. Koinei te tūāpapa o tō ako nā te mea ko ngā mea e waihanga mai ana i ērā mahi, e whakapau ana i ngā hāora manomano, kaua anake ki te puoro, engari ki te nekeneke hoki…ko te whare katoa. Kāore e aro ki tētahi mea kotahi.  Me eke koe i ngā āhuatanga katoa, ngā āhuatanga katoa, te kori, te tū, pēhea te māhunga, ngā ringa, ngā nekehanga, te whai me te tangi ka hua i a koe. Me tō āhua e…

    So choose somebody you really like, or group that you really like and delve in. I mean, that becomes the basis for your learning because the people who are producing that stuff, they spent thousands and thousands of hours, not only in terms of in the music, but in the movement, in the... It's a total system. It's not, you can become really good at one. You got to actually be good at all the parts to it, all the parts to look, te kori, te tū, pehea te mahuna, all the actions, movement, following, and the sound that you produce. And your ahua that you.....

    Engari ko tētahi atu, me mārama koe ki te tukanga auaha ka whāia e koe. He whakapae āku. Engari koinei te mahi. O, ko te Matatini hei te tau e tū mai nei. Me hua mai tētahi mea i a koe. Nō reira, kāore he whakakipakipatanga i tua atu i te mahi noa nā te mea me mahi. Nō reira, he wāhanga tērā o te horopaki.

    But the other is that you understand the creative process for you? I used to have my own theories. Well, it is the reality. Oh, I got Matatini again next year. You got to come up with something. So there's no other motivation than having to do it because that has to be done. So that's part of that context.

    Heoi anō ko te mea, ka kite koe i ētahi o aku waiata…Kua taraiwa ahau i te waka, ka ngau mai te porohau, ā, i te kai pire ahau me te taraiwa haere e āhua māngina ana, engari ka puta mai ētahi tangi, taki hoki. Koirā te whakahaerenga tuarua o Tauti. Ka ahu mai i tētahi mea rerekē. Tērā pea he oro ōpera (ka waiata). Kātahi ka mea koe (ka waiata) ā, ki ahau ko tērā oro, ko tērā kare ā-roto e hāngai ana ki te kuīni. Nō reira ko te mea nui kia aronui koe ki tāu mahi.

    But the thing is, you'll find that some of my songs... I've actually been driving in a car, had the gout, was on certain pills and you are driving along and you might be a little bit spaced out, but there's a certain sound and rhythms that come through. Then that's the second version of Tauti come out of that. It comes from different. So it may be a thing of sound like one of these opera sound (singing). Then your thing will say, (singing) and to me that sound, that emotion is befitting for a queen. So the first thing is to have empathy for what you're doing. 

    Me hono te hinengaro me te ngakau ki roto i tō kaupapa.